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TH SCARCRV PRSS, !NC.

2011
Publishcd by Scarccrow Prcss, !nc.
A wholly owncd subsidiary ol Thc Rowman & Littlclicld Publishing Group, !nc.
4501 Forbcs 8oulcvard, Suitc 200, Lanham, Maryland 20706
http://www.scarccrowprcss.com
stovcr Road, Plymouth PL6 7PY, Unitcd Kingdom
Copyright 2011 by Andrcw J. Rausch
- -. No part ol this book may bc rcproduccd in any lorm or by
any clcctronic or mcchanical mcans, including inlormation storagc and rctricval
systcms, without writtcn pcrmission lrom thc publishcr, cxccpt by a rcvicwcr who
may quotc passagcs in a rcvicw.
8ritish Library Cataloguing in Publication !nlormation Availablc
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Rausch, Andrcw J.
! am hiphop : convcrsations on thc music and culturc / Andrcw J. Rausch.
p. cm.
!ncludcs indcx.
!S8N 9780810877917 (cloth : alk. papcr) !S8N 9780810877924
(cbook)
1. Rap musiciansUnitcd Statcs!ntcrvicws. 2. Rap (Music)History and
criticism. !. Titlc.
ML394.R387 2011
782.421649092273dc22 2010053563

Thc papcr uscd in this publication mccts thc minimum rcquircmcnts ol

Amcrican National Standard lor !nlormation ScicnccsPcrmancncc ol Papcr lor
Printcd Library Matcrials, ANS!/N!S Z39.481992.
Printcd in thc Unitcd Statcs ol Amcrica

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JcanPaul Sartrc
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CNTNTS
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vii

lton John starts his song Crocodilc Rock with thc vcrsc, ! rc
mcmbcr whcn rock was young. !vc hcard that song thousands
ol timcs, but ncvcr rcally thought about thc implication and truc
mcaning bchind that statcmcnt. ! ncvcr rcally thought much about what
it would bc likc to rcmcmbcr whcn rock was youngwhcn this ncw lorm
ol musical cxprcssion rosc up and capturcd thc imagination ol Amcricas
youth, lorcvcr scparating lrom thc gcncration that camc bclorc thcm. At
lcast ! ncvcr rcally thought about it until vcry rcccntly.
Not that long ago ! was having a convcrsation with somconc morc than
twcnty ycars my junior, and thc topic turncd to hiphop. And at somc point
! actually lound myscll saying, ! rcmcmbcr whcn hiphop was young, as
thoughts ol lton Johns Crocodilc Rock passcd through my mind.
At thc risk ol dating myscll, ! rcmcmbcr whcn hiphop was young. !
was young, too. A child rcally, whcn ! lirst hcard Sugarhill Gangs Rap
pcrs clight. vcryonc knows that song now, as it is prctty much thc
ultimatc classic ol hiphop, having comc along at a timc whcn thc sounds
cmitting lrom thc strccts ol Ncw York hadnt cvcn bccn labclcd hiphop
yct. To bc tcn or clcvcn ycars old, having bccn raiscd on a stcady musical
dict ol arth, Vind & Firc and 8illy Jocl, and hcaring lor thc lirst timc,
! said a hip hop thc hippic thc hippic to thc hip hip hop, a you dont stop
thc rockwcll, that was just somcthing clsc altogcthcr.

FRVR
viii
!ts dillicult to truly convcy what ! lclt about this music, othcr than to
say it soundcd right to mc. !t was ncw and young, and it didnt sound
likc it was mcant lor pcoplc my parcnts agc. And so ! startcd llirting with
this ncw music, which camc with its own uniquc stylc ol dancc, as wcll as
art that was a bold cxprcssion ol wild colors that dclicd thc convcntions ol
what art could bc, whcrc it could bc, and il it could cvcn bc lcgal.
8y thc timc Grandmastcr Flash and thc Furious Fivc droppcd Thc
Mcssagc, ! was donc llirting with hiphop! had lallcn in lovc. Thcsc
wcrc thc days ol trading tapcs with my lricnds, writing my own rhymcs,
practicing backspins on old picccs ol cardboard, and planning my gralliti
mastcrpiccc. And to bc pcrlcctly honcst, thc only thing ! did wcll was trad
ing tapcs. My aspirations ol bcing a grcat cmccc or a grcat brcakcr or a grcat
gralliti artist ladcd in timc, and ! rcsigncd myscll to bcing nothing morc
than a lovcr ol hiphop.
Vhcn ! think ol what hiphop mcans to mc, ! think ol a culturc ol
artistic cxprcssion that rosc up in placcs whcrc no onc cxpcctcd thcrc to bc
art. Hiphop, in all ol its pcrmutations, is thc crcation ol somcthing lrom
nothing. !t is thc translormation ol uglincss into bcauty. !t is a dcliant
stancc against a socicty that sccks to marginalizc thc poor and discnlran
chiscd, only to lind that thc poor and discnlranchiscd havc crcatcd thcir
own kingdom.
Hiphop to mc is so many things. !t is possibilitics. !t is about lind
ing your way whcn yourc lost. !t is knowing that dccp down insidc ol you
thcrc is a mcssagc that must bc dclivcrcd to thc world, on your tcrms, in
a languagc that you spcak. !t is hcaring a song likc Strcct Justicc by thc
Rakc lor thc lirst timc, and bcing transportcd to anothcr placc through thc
shccr might ol lyrical lorcc.
For thosc ol you too young to rcmcmbcr whcn thc Fat 8oys wcrc still
thc isco 3, or whcn Kangol Kid and r. !cc wcrc backup danccrs lor
Vhodini, ! lccl sorry lor you. Surc, you can lovc hiphop and immcrsc
yourscll in cvcry aspcct ol thc culturc, but you will ncvcr bc ablc to say you
rcmcmbcr whcn hiphop was young. You will ncvcr bc ablc to say that thc
lirst timc you cxpcricnccd hiphop was thc lirst timc thc world cxpcricnccd
it, as wcll.
For thosc ol you old cnough to rcmcmbcr whcn Kurtis 8low lirst
droppcd Thc 8rcaks, or whcn RunMC lirst appcarcd on
and blcw thc spot up, try not to gct too caught up in lamcnting thc days
FRVR
ix
gonc by. !t is dillicult at timcs to not look at thc currcnt commcrcializcd
statc ol hiphop without bccoming cynical. Vc old guys now talk about
how things wcrc back in thc day and wc wax nostalgic about thc old
school, but wc nccd to kccp in mind that cvcrything must changc and
growcvcn il it changcs and grows in ways wc dont always undcrstand
or apprcciatc.
nc last thought bclorc ! wrap this upjust as ! rcmcmbcr whcn hip
hop was young, ! rcmcmbcr whcn pcoplc said it was a lad that wouldnt
last. Thcrc wcrc naysaycrs who discountcd all ol itthc music, thc dancc,
thc artdismissing it as nothing morc than junk. 8ut what thcy wcrc rcally
dismissing was a culturc that had lound its voicca voicc that thosc within
thc cstablishmcnt could ncvcr lully comprchcnd. And thcy wcrc wrong.
Hiphop has lastcd. !t has thrivcd and llourishcd and sprcad all ovcr thc
globc, and whcn all is said and donc, hiphop to mc is about bcing alivc and
linding a way to cxprcss yourscll to thc world.
avid Valkcr, author ol -
xi

!
would likc to acknowlcdgc thc lollowing pcoplc: Stcphcn Ryan, Mari
lyn Allcn, Louis L. Grcgory, avid Valkcr, Michacl cquina, Hcnry
Nash, Aron Taylor, Ronald Rilcy, Charlcs Pratt, Kcrri Rausch, and all
ol thc artists whosc intcrvicws arc includcd in this book, as wcll as all ol thc
agcnts, managcrs, and publicists who hclpcd to makc it happcn.

xiii

T
hc unilying qucstion lound in cach ol thc lollowing intcrvicws is
Vhat docs hiphop mcan to you: Somc ol thc intcrvicw subjccts
dug down dccp and camc up with thorough, wcll thoughtout
rcsponscs about thc naturc and historical mcanings ol hiphop. 8ut thc
answcrs ! likc bcst arc thc oncs in which thc intcrvicw subjccts simply say
somcthing to thc cllcct ol !ts my lilc. Thosc arc thc rcsponscs ! can bcst
rclatc to. You scc, hiphop has long bccn my lilc, as wcll. Many ol you
may bc qucstioning that statcmcnt, unablc to bclicvc that a whitc guy lrom
Kansas would cvcn havc thc audacity to writc a book on thc subjcct ol hip
hop, lct alonc claim it to bc a dclining lactor in his lilc. 8ut its truc. That
! could havc bccn so pcrsonally allcctcd by this urban music and culturc is
pcrhaps a tcstamcnt to thc widcsprcad popularity and worldwidc cmbracing
ol hiphop, as wcll as its raw powcr.
As you will discovcr within thc pagcs ol this book, hiphop mcans
somcthing dillcrcnt to cvcryonc. !t is likcly that inncrcity bboys will lind
dilliculty in rccognizing or apprcciating that pcoplc ol othcr raccs who livc
in placcs likc Ncbraska or cvcn Japan havc grown up with this music and
idcntily with it in much thc samc ways that thcy do. 8ut again, its truc.
And whilc hiphop must bc rccognizcd as a black art lorm and culturc lirst
and lorcmost, it cannot bc dcnicd that a grcat many pcoplc ol varying raccs
lrom a widc varicty ol countrics dclinc thcmsclvcs through hiphop. Vhat
was oncc an undcrground movcmcnt in thc strccts ol Ncw York City is
now a phcnomcnon which rcachcs around thc globc. !t has bccn said that

!NTRUCT!N
xiv
hiphop music is thc soundtrack to modcrn Amcrica, and that ccrtainly
appcars to bc truc. Hiphop music is now uscd in advcrtiscmcnts lor cvcry
thing lrom automobilcs to dish soap, and it is quotcd and rclcrcnccd lrccly
in virtually cvcry corncr ol Amcrican socicty. Vhcn rightwing conscrva
tivc 8ill Rcilly says Fiddy Ccnt or country singcr Tracc Adkins uscs
thc Kcith Murrayoriginatcd phrasc badonkadonk in a hit song, it is a
tcstamcnt to thc powcr and univcrsal naturc ol hiphop music.
To answcr my own qucstion, hiphop is vcry timc spccilic to mc. !
will lorcvcr scc hiphop in thc way it cxistcd in what is now known as thc
goldcn agc ol hiphop, which lastcd lrom approximatcly 1986 to 2003.
8aggy Girbaud jcans wcrc in lashion, as wcrc ovcrsizcd hoodics and Tim
bcrland boots. Classic albums likc VuTang Clans -
and 8lack Moons blastcd in our car stcrcos and Valkman
casscttc playcrs. Groups likc Public ncmy and Tribc Callcd Qucst madc
us scc hiphop as thc lcgitimatc art lorm that it is, rathcr than making asi
ninc dancc songs likc so many artists today do, thcsc artists (and thcy truly
wcrc --) continually pushcd thc crcativc boundarics ol this ncw music.
Likc many ol thc kids who grcw up on a stcady dict ol hiphop music,
! lancicd myscll an cmccc. ! rccordcd a numbcr ol dcmos bctwccn 1993 and
1998. And although ! camc closc to a rccord dcal, did a show with Tcch
N9nc, was lcaturcd in magazinc, and cvcn managcd to gct onc
ol my songs playcd on Chuck s radio show, thc drcam ncvcr matcrializcd
lor mc. !n thc cnd, it turncd out that ! was a much morc talcntcd writcr
than ! was an cmccc. 8ut that lovc ol all things hiphop has ncvcr dicd.
And thats what this book is aboutpassion. !ts a hcartlclt tributc to
this music and culturc, a rcmindcr ol what it oncc was, and a discussion
on what it now is and soon will bc. Thc oldcr lolks in thc scvcntics and
cightics callcd hiphop a lad, but thcy wcrc dcad wrong. Today thc oldcr
gcncrationmyscll includcd il !m bcing honcstoltcn complains about
what hiphop has bccomc, but again ! think wc lail to scc thc largcr picturc.
Just as thc oldcr lolks who had grown up with thc rock music ol thc 1950s
(lvis Prcslcy, 8uddy Holly, ctc.) wcrc unablc to rccognizc thc rock music
ol thc 1970s (Lcd Zcppclin, thc Vho), timc has shown us that both stylcs
ol music posscss mcrit. And whilc no onc will cvcr say that artists ol today
likc Soulja 8oy or Nicki Minaj rhymc about anything ol substancc thc way
guys likc QTip and Chuck did 20 ycars ago, it is pcrhaps important lor
us to rcmcmbcr that thcy dont rcally havc to. !n rctrospcct 8luc Sucdc
!NTRUCT!N
xv
Shocs or Tcddy 8car sccm lyrically shallow whcn comparcd to somc
thing likc Stairway to Hcavcn, but thcy arc no lcss classic.
Thc song says that thcrc is a timc lor cvcrything, and pcrhaps thats
truc. Just as Amcrica turncd to thc lightcr larc ol comcdics and dancc lilms
during thc Grcat cprcssion in thc 1930s, maybc it nccdcd a lightcr incar
nation ol hiphop to gct through thc linancially hard timcs wc havc laccd as
ol latc. And il thc adagc that things comc in cyclcs is corrcct, thcn pcrhaps
anothcr cra ol morc prolound lyricism is just around thc corncr.
Nas statcmcnt that hiphop is dcad has bccn hcavily dcbatcd (within
thcsc pagcs, as wcll), but thc truth is that hiphop isnt dcad. !n lact, its lar
lrom dcad. !ts cvcrywhcrc wc look today. Thc truth is that its constantly
cvolving, and that cvolution isnt cvcn closc to bcing linishcd. Maybc
instcad ol criticizing todays hiphop music wc should takc morc timc to
analyzc it and apprcciatc it lor what it is rathcr than admonishing it lor
what it isnt.
1

L
ittlc 8rothcr, a urham, North Carolina hiphop group consisting
ol Phontc, Rappcr 8ig Pooh, and produccr 9th Vondcr, rclcascd
thcir dcbut album - in 2003. Thc album rcccivcd criti
cal acclaim, and 9th Vondcrs production, which consistcd ol choppcd and
manipulatcd soul samplcs, drcw comparisons to lcgcndary bcatmakcrs
Pctc Rock and J Prcmicr. Thc produccr thcn rcmixcd Nas album -
on a lark, rclcasing thc projcct as - -. This strcct album was
wcll rcccivcd and startcd thc trcnd ol rcmixing popular hiphop albums.
Altcr 9th Vondcr had alrcady rcccivcd praisc lrom thc likcs ol Pctc Rock
and J Jazzy Jcll, JayZ tappcd him to producc thc song Thrcat lor his
2003 cllort . Following thc rclcasc ol this album, 9th Von
dcr rcmixcd it just as hc had donc prcviously with Nas - , titling
thc projcct - . This projcct, which many bclicvc to bc cvcn bcttcr
than thc original JayZ album, brought thc produccr lurthcr acclaim.
9th Vondcrs staturc in thc industry continucd to grow whcn hc pro
duccd thrcc songs (Girl, !s Shc thc Rcason, and Gamc vcr) lor thc
2004 cstinys Child album - . Thc produccr thcn workcd
with such notcd soul singcrs as rykah 8adu and Mary J. 8ligc, winning
a Grammy lor his work with thc lattcr. Hc thcn produccd Littlc 8rothcrs
sccond album, - , which oncc again garncrcd acclaim lor
thc both thc group and thc produccr. !n 2007, 9th Vondcr partcd ways
with Littlc 8rothcr. Hc has sincc produccd thc music lor thc popular
animatcd scrics -, and has gonc on to work with such notcd

CHAPTR N
2
hiphop artists as Ludacris, Lil Vaync, Murs, Valc, rakc, 8lack Moon,
and avid 8anncr.
!n addition to his work as a produccr, 9th Vondcr also hosts a radio
show in Faycttvillc, North Carolina, callcd . Hc is thc
prcsidcnt, loundcr, and C ol !ts a Vondcrlul Music Group, which ca
tcrs to thc 28 to 40ycarold dcmographic ol music listcncrs. Hc also runs
two indcpcndcnt labcls, Jamla Rccords and thc Acadcmy Music Group. !n
2007, 9th Vondcr was appointcd Artist!nRcsidcncc at North Carolina
Ccntral Univcrsity, whcrc hc bcgan instructing a hiphop history coursc.
Hc thcn wcnt on to tcach similar courscs at ukc Univcrsity and 8arbcr
Scotia Collcgc. 9th Vondcr has also bccn appointcd thc National Ambas
sador lor HipHop Rclations and Culturc lor thc NAACP, whcrc hc lcads
a board ol Ph.s, hiphop artists, and Juris octoratcs.
-
For mc hiphop is a way ol lilc. !t has shapcd so much ol my lilc. !ts inccp
tion was in 1973, and ! was born in 1975. !ts bccn so much a part ol my
lilcthc truc csscncc ol hiphop, this is what ! cat and brcathc on a day
today basis. !m talking about thc study ol thc music, thc cultural aspcct ol
itnot how much moncy its madc ovcr thc ycars, but thc cultural aspcct
ol it and its worldwidc impact, and thc impact that it had on thc black
community, and thc mcssagcs that it crcatcd in thc latc cightics and carly
ninctics that hclpcd lorm mc in my adolcsccncc. !ts shapcd a grcat dcal
ol my lilc and has lormcd my way ol thinkingartists likc Chuck and
KRSnc and 8rand Nubian and Tribc Callcd Qucst. And plus it turncd
mc on to a lcgion ol artists that ! ncvcr kncw about through its usagc ol
samplcs in thc music.
- - - - - -
- -- - -

|Laughs.| Ycah, ! did that. ! did that in thc midninctics . . . Vc all did
that bccausc wc wantcd a way to makc bcats whcn wc didnt havc thc
propcr cquipmcnt. That was somc ol my carlicst production, and thcn !
startcd actually making bcats around 1998 or 1999. That lcd to my mcssing
around with it lor a lcw ycars until thc inccption ol Littlc 8rothcr. !vc bccn
at it, just lrom a hiphop standpointactually practicing thc dynamics ol
thc hiphop culturclor about 12 ycars. As lar as knowing about thc music
9TH VNR
3
and it manilcsting ovcr timc within mc, whcthcr it was through a clarinct
or a kcyboard, oh, man . . . wcrc talking about 24 ycars! And you wcrc
probably thc kid likc mc who had thc C book with about 500 Cs in it.
! think it manilcstcd in all ol us that way.
- - -
- -
J Prcmicr bccausc ! think hcs thc bcst in hiphop at capturing thc wintcr
timc sound, just that gritty sound. ! cant think ol any produccr in history
thats produccd music that was gritticr than what J Prcmicr has donc. !l
you want thc 40 bclow, Timbcrland, pull jackctthat typc ol boombap
productionthcn its J Prcmicr. ! cant think ol anybody clsc who comcs
closc to that. Thcn thcrcs Pctc Rock, whos thc bcst samplc llippcr. Hc
uscs samplcs bcttcr than anyonc clsc !vc cvcr hcard in my lilc. !l you takc
thosc two cats togcthcrwith a littlc 8catmincrz and rganizcd Noisc and
somc dillcrcnt cats thrown in thcrc . . . Thosc arc my primary inllucnccs.
- - -
- -
!ts kind ol crazy. You takc somconc likc 8ig Scan, who just signcd with
Kanyc Vcst, hc told mc, Yourc a lcgcnd to mc. !vc bccn listcning to you
sincc ! was 15. And hcs 22, so that kind ol makcs scnsc. ! startcd listcning
to Tribc Callcd Qucst whcn ! was 14. And that makcs scnsc lor cats to say
that ! am thc cquivalcnt ol thosc guysnot in tcrms ol music, but bccausc
thcy grcw up listcning to my music. To thcm, ! Pctc Rock. ! mcan,
! wcnt crazy ovcr Pctc Rock and J Prcmicr, and lavoritc produccr
was Marlcy Marl. !t just gocs down thc linc likc that. ! think !m similar
to thcm in that somconc who docsnt rcally know hiphop may not know
my namc, and that was what Pctc Rock and J Prcmicr wcrc to us. ! think
to this gcncration ! am thc onc that cmbodics samplcs and thc boombap
sound, whilc all thc othcr produccrs may do somcthing dillcrcnt. !m thc
onc that still sticks to that, and so ! think thats why thcy would say that.
- -
Vc rcally didnt know what to makc ol it. Vc alrcady had - lin
ishcd. That album was alrcady a ycar old whcn wc linally signcd with A88
Rccords out ol San Francisco. For us to bc lrom North Carolina and sign
a rccord dcal with a labcl in San Francisco was just totally crazy. Vc ncvcr
CHAPTR N
4
wcnt into this trying to gct a dcal. !t was just basically, Lcts scc what hap
pcns. Vc had so much lovc lor thc music that wc wcrc just likc, Lcts scc
whcrc this gocs. Vc just tricd to makc cach song bcttcr than thc last onc.
Vc didnt rcally know what wc wcrc doing. So whcn wc got our lirst dcal,
and our advancc was just 82,000split lour ways bccausc wc had to givc our
managcr a picccit was just likc, kay. ! mcan, it didnt rcally hit mc until
wc actually startcd travcling and going placcs and linding that pcoplc kncw
our songs. That kind ol hit mc morc than thc lact that wc had a dcal. Vc
would go to Ncw York or L.A., and pcoplc would know our songs word lor
word. That was whcn it hit mc that wc wcrc onto somcthing.
- - - -

Just that its hard. |Laughs.| Thcrc arc just dillcrcnt dynamics with dil
lcrcnt pcoplc. Nobodys right, nobodys wrong. !ts a vcry dillicult proccss.
8ut il you stick with it, it can bc a rcal lcarning proccss. You not only lcarn
about pcoplc, but you also lcarn a lot about yourscll.
- - -
-
Thc lormula is still thc samc, but !vc updatcd it a littlc bit. !vc got a lricnd
who told mc, You still makc undcrground rccords, but now you makc main
strcam undcrground rccords. And thc way that you makc it mainstrcam is
by making surc that thc listcncr can lcarn thc rccord. !ts about il ! listcn to
this song on thc radio, can ! lcarn thc rccord: !l its somcthing thats dillicult
to lcarn, thcn thats whcn it gocs out ol thc mainstrcam. So ! try to makc
rccords that arc still mc, but oncs that pcoplc can lcarn. So thats how !vc
changcd ovcr thc ycars. And ! also try to makc my sound a littlc bit biggcr.
! just bclicvc in my lans, and my lans bclicvc in mc. ! am thc rcprcscntation
ol what hiphop uscd to bc. ! try to stick with that and not stray too lar away
lrom that, bccausc ! bclicvc that trying to appcal to a biggcr mass audicncc
would shortcn my carccr. 8ut sticking with my 300,000 loyal lollowcrs lor 20
ycars is what will givc mc longcvity, and thats what ! want to do.
- - -
- - -
- -
! think its going to takc morc than mc. ! think cvcrything rcpcats itscll
in 20 ycars, and ! think thats whcrc hiphop is going. Hiphop gocs in
9TH VNR
5
cyclcs just likc history docs. Vc arc now at a timc whcrc wc arc 20 ycars
rcmovcd lrom 1990 . . . Vc wcrc 20 ycars rcmovcd lrom thc scvcntics
and stull likc Curtis Maylicld and thc Motown sound whcn Angclo
camc out and kind ol brought that back. ! think it takcs a gcncration to
havc to bc rcmovcd lrom that sound, or it takcs a gcncration ol childrcn
who grcw up with thcir moms and dads music. !l you ask a 15ycarold
right now what thc lirst rap rccord thcy hcard was, thcy might say Nas.
And youd ask, How was that: And thcyd say, My mom and dad
uscd to play that. So now wcrc at a point whcrc thc 15ycarolds wcrc
born in 1995, and thcir parcnts arc saying, Yourc gonna listcn to what
! listcn to in thc car. So that mcans that thcyrc listcning to groups likc
Tribc, c La Soul . . . You lollow mc: So whats going to happcn is
that that sound is going to bccomc cool again. Youvc got kids going to
collcgc and wanting to listcn to adult music. ! mcan, whcn wc wcnt to
collcgc, wc still listcncd to our Jodcci and Mary J. 8ligc, but il you
wantcd to bc grown you listcncd to thc Commodorcs and 8ob Marlcy
and John Coltranc and thc jays. You listcncd to somcthing kind ol
vintagc that your lricnds may not havc bccn up on. All thc collcgc kids
did that. Now its going to happcn again. You might listcn to rakc and
Trcy Songz and J. Colc, but il you rcally want to bc up on it, you nccd
to gct up on thc - album. Vcrc cntcring into an cra
ol thc ncw classics now. So thats going to strikc a chord and somc kids
going to say, You know what: Lcts takc oll all thcsc chains and start
wcaring good wood and Alrican mcdallions again. Thats coming back,
so ! think that whcthcr ! try to do it or not, thats going to bc thc thing
to do anyway.
--- - - -
- -

|Jays cnginccr| Young Guru was a lan ol Littlc 8rothcr, and a lan ol
my production as wcll. Hc rcachcd out to mc, and hc said, ! nccd you
to comc to Ncw York and play somc rccords lor Jay. So ! wcnt to Ncw
York, and thats how Thrcat camc to bc. ! actually playcd 29 bcats lor
Jay lirst, and hc was likc, Man, ! nccd you to makc onc lor mc. ! madc
Thrcat lor him. Thats how ! got on , and that was
scvcn ycars ago tomorrow, il you can bclicvc that. !t was Scptcmbcr 22,
2003.
CHAPTR N
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-
Surrcal. !t all happcncd in a span ol thrcc or lour days, so its kind ol a blur
to mc. vcry timc ! gct to mcct Jay or sit around and talk to him, its a blur.
Vhcthcr its thrcc hours or its 10 minutcs, its all a blur. 8ut it was surrcal.
! mcan, hcrc no onc was sampling rccords anymorc, and ! was a kid who
was labclcd as bcing a backpackcr, or labclcd as bcing undcrground. And
hcrc hcs askcd to producc a rccord by onc ol thc bcst rappcrs, il not
grcatcst rappcr walking, on a hcraldcd album that also comcs with a movic.
!ts unhcard ol. !t was surrcal. !n lact, its still surrcal to talk about it.
You know, anytimc ! mcct somcbody it comcs up. You talk to somc
onc and somconc clsc says, You know who this is: This is 9th Vondcr.
And thcy say, Nah, ! dont know who that is. And thcn thcy say, Hc
madc a bcat lor JayZ, and that instantly validatcs mc. !vc madc rccords
with cvcryonc lrom cstinys Child to Mary J. 8ligc, and thats thc onc
projcct that sccms to validatc mc. Hc got a bcat with JayZ. And thcy say,
h, word: And that automatically makcs mc somcbody.
- - -
-- - -
Thc Nas - - projcct camc along whcn a lricnd ol minc brought
mc thc Nas a capclla C and said, Scc what you can do with thcsc. And !
did thc wholc thing in a wcckcnd. ! rcally didnt think that much ol it. And
that madc a ol noisc. Thcn MF oom did onc altcr mc callcd -
-. Thcn somc othcr cats did thc samc thing. Thcn thc ncxt thing you
know, a capcllas camc out and startcd a wholc rcvolution
again. And cvcryonc was likc, Youvc to do it. And ! did. !t just startcd
out as somcthing ! did in my houschold that ! didnt think was going to bc
that big ol a dcal, and it wound up bcing a typc ol rcvolution ol rcmixing
albums. And cvcrybody thought ! uscd that to gct in thc gamc. Nah, ! was
just rcmixing an album bccausc ! got tircd ol hcaring Nas ovcr thosc bcats.
! wantcd to scc what thcy would sound likc ovcr minc.
- -
! dont know il Jay has cvcr hcard it. ! rcmixcd my song twicc. Maybc hc
hcard it, maybc hc didnt, but it is what it is. ! did it bccausc it was lun.
That was why ! originally got into this gamc in thc lirst placc. ! gct to
makc rccords and livc out my childhood drcam. ! gct to bc a part ol somc
thingnot bccausc ol thc moncy, but bccausc ol thc camaradcric and thc
9TH VNR
7
brothcrhood. You couldnt script it any bcttcr than this. So thats why !
madc thosc rccords. For mc, it was just a part ol thc cralt.
-
-
Somctimcs. ! mcan, wcrc in an agc now whcrc pcoplc just takc my wholc
cataloguc . . . Thcy just go onlinc and Googlc my namc and lind thc instru
mcntals and thcn makc a wholc album with thcm and put my namc on it.
|Laughs.| And thats without my bcing thcrc or cvcr mccting thcm. Thcy
think thats going to gct thcm to thc ncxt lcvcl. As lor my actual produc
tions, somctimcs ! do that. ! mcan, !vc donc it oncc or twicc. ! did it with
Skyzoo. 8ut rcally, !d rathcr bc thcrc whilc thcyrc rccording it. Vc arc
produccrs. Thats what wc do, so !d rathcr havc morc ol a handson situ
ation with thc music that ! producc.
- - - -
- -- - -
- -
! was watching somcthing on Hcrbic Hancock, and hc was making an
album. ! think il Hcrbic Hancock and Sting could coordinatc thcir busy
schcdulcs and gct togcthcr to collaboratc, thcn anybody should bc ablc to.
And thcy wcrc in thc studio togcthcr lor livc days. And this is now!
l thc ! And thats why thc lcvcl and quality ol thcir music is so
incrcdiblc. You know, pcoplc arc in this gamc now lor thc wrong rcasons.
Thcyd rathcr bc at thc latcst big party than bc in thc studio collaborating
and putting togcthcr a good rccord.
- -
-
!d say 100. No ollcnsc to anyonc clsc, but ! dont havc a lot ol viccs. !
dont drink, ! dont smokc. ! dont havc thosc things standing in my way.
This is what ! want to do. ! think a lot ol us takc lor grantcd bcing a part
ol this thing, you know: Thc busincss sidc ol it sucks. vcryonc hatcs thc
busincss sidc ol it. A&R, chasing chccks, dcaling with thc labcl . . . That
all gcts on your ncrvcs. 8ut comc on, man, wcrc making music lor a living.
Vhat is your gripc: Thcrc arc lots ol pcoplc who work ninctolivc jobs
who hatc thcir jobs. Vc makc bcats lor a living and pcoplc praisc us lor it,
you know: Vhat is your gripc: So thats how ! stick with it. vcryonc gcts
CHAPTR N
8
into thc gamc lor a rcason. Somc pcoplc do it lor moncy, ! got into this
gamc lor somcthing dillcrcnt. ! got into this gamc to carry a torch lrom thc
guys who passcd it on to mc. Vhcthcr or not ! was rcady to carry it, thats
my position in this gamc. ! makc as many bcats as ! do bccausc !m always
trying to chasc thc samc high that ! got whcn ! madc this particular bcat,
or this bcat, or this bcat . . . !m trying to gct that high again.
-
Thrcat bccausc ol what it stood lor, and to actually watch JayZ rccord
his vcrscs with nothing writtcn down on papcr. cstinys Child, bccausc
that showcd mc that ! could do somcthing clsc othcr than hiphop. ! mcan,
! always wantcd to makc soul music. !m labclcd as a hiphop produccr, but
! want to makc soul music, and working with thcm showcd mc that ! could
do that. Thc rccord ! madc with Mary J. lct mc know that ! could not only
makc soul music, but that ! could bc rccognizcd lor it. ! won a Grammy lor
that. Vorking with rykah 8adu was spccial bccausc, look, you ncvcr think
thc pcoplc that you adorcd whcn you wcrc youngcr arc listcning to you. 8ut
shc had bccn listcning to mc lor ycars, and that was how that collaboration
camc about. And Ludacris showcd mc to ncvcr judgc a book by its covcr.
Thats not to say that ! did a lot ol judging ol Ludacris, but hc wasnt ncc
cssarily what ! cxpcctcd in tcrms ol industry standards ol mainstrcam or
undcrground. And thosc arc all on thc mainstrcam lcvcl ol things rcgarding
somc ol my lavoritc productions.
8ut ! think my numbcr onc lavoritc collaborations havc probably bccn
thc rccords that !vc madc with Murs. !vc donc lour rccords with him, and
wcrc totally dillcrcnt pcoplc. !vc hcard pcoplc say that il you dont agrcc
with 9th Vondcr or do cxactly what 9th says thcn it wont work, but thats
not truc. Mc and Murs arguc thc timc, but wcvc madc lour albums. !
think wc just rcspcct cach othcrs spacc, and wcrc mcn about it. And thosc
lour albums arc my lavoritc collaborations.
--
- - - -

! wcnt around and spokc at a lot ol high schools. Thats onc thing about
growing up in North Carolinayou havc a lot ol cats that you wcnt to high
school with that grow up and bccomc tcachcrs. So obviously thcyrc gonna
ask mc to comc by and spcak to thcir classcs. So ! had a lricnd who askcd
9TH VNR
9
mc to comc and spcak to a couplc ol his classcs, and thc chanccllor at North
Carolina Ccntral Univcrsity caught wind ol it, and hc askcd mc to comc
and tcach a class at North Carolina Ccntral. And that just happcncd to bc
thc largcst class on campus. ! staycd thcrc lor thrcc ycars. ncc thc chan
ccllor changcd, ! movcd on to ukc, and thcy totally cmbraccd what ! had
going on thcrc. Vc dccidcd wcd do this cvcry othcr scmcstcr. And whilc !
was at ukc, ! also voluntccrcd down at 8arbcr Scotia Collcgc, which is a
socallcd black collcgc in Concord, North Carolina. !t was thc lirst collcgc
lor thc daughtcrs ol slavcs, and ! voluntccrcd to tcach thcrc. !ts just thc
opportunity to do somcthing totally dillcrcnt.
! lccl that anything that has bccn a part ol our socicty lor 37 ycars
whcthcr you want to admit that or notnccds to bc studicd. !t nccds to
bc totally undcrstood on a collcgc lcvcl. ! mcan, thc samc thing happcncd
with jazz. Jazz was crcatcd in thc strccts, and now its studicd all across thc
world. ! bclicvc that hiphop is going to comc to that. ! just wantcd to bc
onc ol thc lorcrunncrs ol it rathcr than thcrc bc somc 60ycarold guy who
knows nothing about thc art lorm but tcachcs about it bccausc hc rcad a
couplc ol books.
- -
Thc coursc at Ccntral was callcd HipHop in Contcxt, and wc talkcd
about hiphop lrom 1968 to 1997. Most history courscs today dont cvcn
talk about black history altcr Martin Luthcr King. So its likc, altcr Martin
Luthcr King dicd, what happcncd: So this coursc covcrcd cvcrything bc
twccn thc assassination ol Martin Luthcr King all thc way up to thc assas
sination ol thc Notorious 8.!.G. Thcrc wcrc a lot ol things that happcncd
lrom a sociopolitical standpoint which corrcspondcd with thc music. A
lot ol pcoplc likc to think thc music has nothing to do with politics, and so
wc talk about thc crcation ol hiphop and how it allcctcd things likc how
thc black community was vicwcd. Thc coursc covcrcd a pcriod ol timc that
your avcragc 18ycarold knows nothing about. Hc may havc hcard somc
about hiphop lrom his parcnts, but hc knows nothing about thc history
ol Cold Chillin. And all ol that is important. !ts a part ol black history,
pcriod. So thats what wc studicd at Ccntral. Thc class at 8arbcr Scotia was
basically thc samc class.
At ukc wc had a morc indcpth class. !t was callcd Sampling Soul,
which mcant that wc samplcd dillcrcnt topics cvcry wcck. nc wcck wc
CHAPTR N
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talkcd about Michacl Jackson. Thc ncxt wc talkcd about . Thc ncxt
wcck wc talkcd about sampling gcography, and ! talkcd about Gamblc and
Hull, Motown, Solar Rccords, Stax. Vc did that cvcry wcck.

1. (2003)
2. - (2003) |as Littlc 8rothcr|
3. - (2003) |w/ Spcctac|
4. --- (2003) |w/ L..G.A.C.Y.|
5. - (2004) |w/ Murs|
6. (2005)
7. - (2005) |as Littlc 8rothcr|
8. - (2005) |w/ 8uckshot|
9. - (2005) |w/ Kazc|
10. - (2006) |w/ Murs|
11. (2006) |w/ Skyzoo|
12. (2007)
13. (2008) |w/ 8uckshot|
14. - (2008) |w/ Jcan Grac|
15. (2008) |w/ Murs|
16. (2008) |w/ Spcctac|
17. - (2009)
18. (2010)
19. (2010) |w/ Murs|
20. (2010) |w/ avid 8anncr|
21. - - (2010)
22. (2010)
23. (2011) |w/ 8uckshot|
11

F
ollowing in thc linc tradition ol cmcccs likc d .G. and Guru
ol Gang Starr, orchcstcr nativc Akrobatik sct out to rcprcscnt
8oston in thc latc 1990s. !n 1998, thc licrcc cmccc rclcascd his lirst
singlc, Rull nough, on 8ostons own ctonator Rccords labcl. Akro
batik thcn rclcascd his ncxt two singlcs, !ntcrnct MCs and Say Ycs Say
Vord on Rawkus Rccords, with thc lattcr bccoming an anthcmic lavoritc
that madc many hiphop lans takc noticc. !n May 2003, hc rclcascd his lirst
lulllcngth album, , which lcaturcd production lrom such rcspcctcd
bcatmakcrs as iamond , a 8catmincrz, and J Rcvolution. Thc
album was an undcrground scnsation and garncrcd positivc rcvicws lrom
many notcd music publications.
!t was during this pcriod that Akrobatik joincd lorccs with lcllow 8os
ton artists Mr. Lil and J Fakts nc to lorm thc group thc Pcrccptionists.
Thc group rclcascd a mixtapc, , in 2004. That projcct spawncd
thc singlc Mcmorial ay, cstablishing thc groups rcputation as onc ol
undcrground hiphops most talcntcd crcws. Thc lollowing ycar saw thc
rclcasc ol thc groups dcbut album, , which spawncd two
morc singlcs, 8lo and 8lack ialoguc.
!n 2005, Akrobatik inkcd a dcal with 8rooklynbascd Fat 8cats Rc
cords. Hc thcn wcnt to work on his album, - , which wouldnt
bc complctcd and rclcascd until 2008. Thc album, which lcaturcd production
by a 8catmincrz, J illa, and 9th Vondcr, as wcll as gucst appcaranccs by

CHAPTR TV
12
Chuck ., Talib Kwcli, and 8Rcal, rcccivcd ravc rcvicws and linally put
Akrobatik squarcly in thc national spotlight.
Akrobatiks music has appcarcd in lilms likc thc Stcvc Carcll comcdy
, thc hit tclcvision scrics , and on vidco gamcs such as
and - . !n addition to his work as
a hiphop artist, Akrobatik maintains a daily job rapping about sports ncws
on Thc Sports VrapUp on 8ostons JAMN 94.5 hiphop radio station.
-
Vhcn ! think ol hiphop, thc lirst thing that comcs to mind is thc bcgin
ning ol my rclationship with hiphop. ! was rcally lortunatc to bc born and
growing up around thc timc that hiphop madc its lirst initial cxplosion.
Thcrc was just a rcal gcnuinc and authcntic lccling that camc lrom it bc
causc it didnt cxist bclorc that. ! think about thc bcginning ol thc music
and how it rcprcscntcd a wholc ncw way to rcprcscnt oncs scll musically.
Vhcn ! lirst hcard Thc Mcssagc by thc Furious Fivc, that was just amaz
ing. Thosc guys just soundcd so cool. ! was uscd to hcaring pcoplc sing, and
now hcrc wcrc thcsc dudcs just saying thc words in a kind ol rhythm that !
had ncvcr hcard bclorc. ! got to witncss thc wholc thing cxplodc with thc
RunMCs and thc LL Cool Js and all ol thosc pcoplc who wcrc coming
up. So whcn ! think ol hiphop, ! think ol thc Frcsh Fcst cra. ! think ol
how cxcitcd cvcrybody was about this ncw thing that was coming out, and
how it inlcctcd mc and madc mc ycarn to bccomc a part ol it. And that was
! did. As a kid, my lilc was basically sports, vidco gamcs, and hiphop.
Honcstly, it kind ol still is! |Laughs.| So lor mc, whcn ! think ol hiphop,
! think about that initial surgc and how it caught lirc so quickly.
Vhcn yourc that young, a timc pcriod ol livc ycars sccms likc an ctcr
nity. So that timc pcriod ol likc 1986 to 91, 92, whcrc cvcrybody was still
kind ol lcarning . . . pcoplc wcrc still sampling whatcvcr thcy wantcd to,
and it was just a rcally lun timc. Now, lor mc, its kind ol morc a prolcs
sional thing and dclinitcly somcthing whcrc ! havc to takc my work into
account as opposcd to just living it. 8ut ! dclinitcly still havc that initial
cxcitcmcnt lor hiphop running through mc today.

- - -
- - -
AKR8AT!K
13
- - - - -
- -
Thc bcauty ol that, to mc, is that all thosc groups kind ol workcd with cach
othcr, or tourcd with cach othcr. Thcy shoutcd cach othcr out on thcir rc
cords. Groups likc NVA and igital Undcrground could cocxistbccausc
ol thc lact that hiphop was so ncw and pcoplc wcrcnt rcally worricd about
catcgorizing thc dillcrcnt typcs ol hiphop. Thcy wcrc likc, Yo, wc got on,
and you guys got on, too, and this is lun. Lcts makc somc moncy and do
somc shows. That was somcthing grcat, and ! think wcvc stccrcd away
lrom that rcccntly. Now its morc about cvcrybody bcing so dcspcratc to
scll rccords and gct attcntion. So il you makc onc typc ol music, thcn its
thc thing now to kind ol shit on cvcrybody who docsnt makc that kind ol
music. A lot ol that unity is gonc. For mc, its music lirst. ! kind ol lccl likc
whcn Tribc Callcd Qucst camc out, that kind ol changcd thc way pcoplc
startcd making bcats. Thcrc arc a lot ol groups lrom thc carly days ol hip
hop that rcally lormcd thc music, and what it bccamc, and what it is. vcn
though thcyrc mostly on thc undcrground, you still havc a lot ol produccrs
who takc that rcally artistic approach to making music. Thcy arcnt just
throwing on loops or clcctronic bcats, so props to thcm.
- - -

! think thc inlormation agc changcd cvcrything. 8ack in thosc days, 1988
or 1995, thc avcragc guy couldnt just turn on a computcr and makc a bcat
and gct thcir music out to pcoplc. Now thc industry is so watcrcd down
that you havc pcoplc who arc not truly artists at hcart, and thcy havc just
as much ol a capability as a truly talcntcd artist in gctting thcir music out
thcrc. So now, any vidco that cnds up on YouTubc or any song that cnds
up on a blog somcwhcrc can rcally catch lirc just as last as somcthing by an
artist whos bccn grinding it out and doing shows and all that stull. ! think
thats what changcd hiphop mostly, and bccausc its changcd in that way,
its put pcoplc in thc position now whcrc thcy can prctty much just copy
whatcvcr thc ncxt guy is succcsslul at doing, thcy can piggyback oll that and
gct attcntion and, in somc cascs, rccord dcals.
Nowadays you havc to bc a musicsavvy lan to lind good authcntic hip
hop. 8ut thcrc is plcnty ol rap music out thcrc that is on thc mcnu that is
only a click away. !t docsnt rcally bothcr mc, bccausc ! know whcrc to go
CHAPTR TV
14
to lind good music. 8ut ! lccl bad lor thc youngcr gcncration bccausc most
ol thcm dont havc any rcalization ol what is happcning. Thcyvc just comc
into thc situation, and thcy dont havc thc history to distinguish bctwccn
thc two typcs ol music, and thcy dont havc acccss to somc ol thcsc othcr
artists who arc putting out thc morc artistic stull.
- - - -
- - -
- -
!ts almost likc just knowing your hcritagc as a human bcing. !l you know
your hcritagc, you know what camc bclorc you. !ts a good indicator ol
what lics ahcad lor you. !vc bccn in thc music busincss now lor 12 ycars,
and ! think part ol my ability to survivc lor as long as ! havc has a lot to
do with my knowlcdgc ol thc things that camc bclorc mc. ! havc a lot ol
rcspcct lor thc hcritagc, and it givcs mc a morc honcst approach towards
making thc music. ! dont makc music to bc lamous! makc it bccausc !
lovc it. ! would likc thc pcoplc ! grcw up listcning to who lovcd thcir music
to bc imprcsscd by what ! do. !m not just making music to imprcss thc
pcoplc who livc on my block or thc pcoplc lrom my city . . . !m doing it
bccausc ! lovc it, and ! want my pccrs and my inllucnccs to rccognizc that
and rcspcct mc lor thc samc rcasons that ! rcspcct thcm. Thats dclinitcly
onc way that it hclps. ! lccl that il ! didnt know anything about 8ig addy
Kanc or Slick Rick or LL Cool J, ! wouldnt havc thosc inllucnccs. ! mcan,
thosc guys arc dircct inllucnccs on my music, and ! cant dcny that. So il
yourc coming out and thc only inllucnccs you havc arc thc guys who havc
bccn around lor thc last couplc ol ycars . . . thcn ! think your inllucnccs arc
coming lrom a watcrcd down sourcc. ! lccl that my inllucnccs arc coming
lrom a gcnuinc sourccthc rcal dcaland you cant rcally takc that away
lrom mc. ! can quotc just about any lyric oll ol LL Cool Js
album, or thc album . . . Thosc llows that thosc
guys kickcd, thosc punch lincs that thcy uscd, thcyrc all in my hcad. So not
only do thosc things inspirc mc in rcgards to what ! should do, but ! also
know what not to do bccausc its alrcady bccn donc.
- -
-
-
AKR8AT!K
15
Vcll, thc lirst thing !ll say about that is ! was a rcally ambitious dudc whcn
! put that album out. ! was so cxcitcd about thc lact that ! was putting out
my lirst rccord that in thc back ol my mind ! probably thought ! was go
ing to savc thc world with it. Looking back on it, pcrhaps ! was a littlc too
ambitious making statcmcnt. At thc samc timc, ! lccl likc thcrc wcrc
a lot ol pcoplc who hcard that rccord, and maybc a couplc ol thc songs on
thcrc did in lact changc thc way thcy thought about things, particularly
Rcmind My Soul. So ! dont rcally know that ! was bcing too ambitious.
Vhcn that album was rclcascd that was during thc cra ol 50 Ccnt and
GUnit and cvcrybody was trying to piggyback oll ol that, and lor mc, !
would bc in a lot ol situations, whcthcr it bc in uropc or thc Unitcd Statcs,
whcrc it got to thc point whcrc ! didnt want to tcll pcoplc that ! rappcd.
! mcan, it was bccausc what it mcant to bc a rappcr had changcd rathcr
drastically. Vhcrcas back in thc day you had NVA, and thcy wcrc likc thc
llagship gangstcr rap artists and youd havc bccn a lool to try to copy thcm
bccausc thcy wcrc so authcntic, cvcryonc during this pcriod just wantcd to
havc that gangstcr swaggcr and put out drug dcalcr gangstcr music. ! didnt
do that, bccausc that was not what ! was about, and thc pcoplc that ! know
would not havc rcspcctcd that. Thcrc was no rcason lor mc to do that, so
! wantcd to put out music that would makc pcoplc say, kay, hcrcs a
brothcr who isnt inllucnccd by all thc shit thats going on right now. Hc
sccs it, hc knows about it, but hc has a dillcrcnt pcrspcctivc on it. ! didnt
rcally lccl likc my pcrspcctivc on drugs and violcncc in hiphop was rcally
bcing rcprcscntcd in hiphop outsidc ol maybc a couplc ol artists. !t was
important lor mc to gct that out thcrc at that timc. ! dont lccl likc its that
ncccssary to makc that distinction today, now ! just lccl likc ! can makc
music and havc lun.
- -- -- -
---
No. ! think music is music. ! lccl that you should just do whatcvcr you want
to do. Vcrc all complcx pcoplc and wc all havc a lot ol things going on in
our livcs, and you can takc any onc aspcct ol your pcrsona or your charactcr,
and that might bc all that yourc willing to cxprcss to pcoplc as an artist.
Yourc not obligatcd to givc pcoplc anything othcr than what you want to
givc thcm. Vcrc in this cra whcrc il you sign up lor a Faccbook pagc you
lccl likc you havc to givc up cvcrything short ol your social sccurity numbcr
CHAPTR TV
16
and having somconc grab your nuts and tcll you to cough. ! lccl that wc, as
a pcoplc, havc sort ol lost sight ol thc lact that our own privacy is somcthing
that can bc guardcd. Vc havc a right to guard that, and wc only havc to
sharc what wc want to sharc. And ycs, thc artists that tcnd to bc lovcd thc
most arc thc oncs who arc lcarlcss and sharc thc most, but, ! mcan, il you
just want to bc a dudc who only talks about womcn and rclationships, you
can do that . . . !l somctimcs you just lccl likc yourc an angry black man
and thats all you want to put out thcrc, thcn thats linc. ! mcan, look at
Public ncmy, thcy madc music that was socially conscious that was about
what was going on around thcm. Chuck ncvcr madc a lovc song, but !ll
bct you that Chuck has bccn in lovc, and hc just dccidcd not to sharc
that sidc ol himscll. And ! rcspcct that, bccausc il thats not what hc wants
to doil hc lccls that it gocs against his brand ol thc music that hcs mak
ingthats linc. ! lccl likc pcoplc can and should do whatcvcr thcy want,
but its ultimatcly up to thc public to dccidc what thcyrc going to acccpt
lrom somconc and what thcyrc not.
- -- - -
-- - - - ---
- - - -
- ---
Vcll, ycah, bccausc bcing positivc and saying uplilting things is not rc
ally somcthing that thc mcdia has cvcr rcally wantcd to gct across to thc
mainstrcam in any lorum, othcr than maybc trying to makc pcoplc who arc
alrcady lamous look good. ! mcan, look at thc N8A, all thosc guys arc mil
lionaircs and you always scc thc N8A Carcs campaign . . . You scc that
and all thc charity work that thcy do bccausc thcy havc to. Thcy havc to
maintain a ccrtain lcvcl ol rcsponsibility bccausc thcy makc so much moncy
and bccausc cvcrybody has thcir cycs on thcm. 8ut il yourc not lamous, its
not going to makc you lamous to bc somc good charitablc guy that is into
all thcsc dillcrcnt things and trying to raisc social awarcncss. Mainstrcam
succcss is morc about grabbing thc attcntion ol as many pcoplc as you can
with your song, and usually thats going to happcn with catchy hooks and
singing and ccrtain typcs ol bcatsdanccablc music thats playcd in thc
nightclubs. And ! undcrstand that, but ! dont makc music lor mainstrcam
succcss. For mc, ! know that il ! makc music that ! likc and cnjoy, that
thcrc will bc cnough likcmindcd pcoplc out thcrc likc mc who arc going
AKR8AT!K
17
to hcar it and cnjoy it and !ll bc ablc to gct bookcd and makc somc moncy.
!ts that simplc lor mc. !ts a carccr. !ts somcthing that ! want to bc ablc to
do lor as long as ! can, this isnt a gct rich schcmc or anything likc that. 8ut
ycah, major labcls arcnt going to comc knocking on my door with thc kind
ol music that !m kicking most ol thc timc. 8ut thats okay. ! dont rcally
lccl likc !m missing out or anything, bccausc mainstrcam succcss docs not
ncccssarily cqual happincss or cvcn lortunc.
- -- -- ---
-
! dont know about that, bccausc ! dont think thcrcs a strong cnough
movcmcnt ol artists doing that. Vhcn thcy had thc Stop thc \iolcncc
and Scllcstruction movcmcnts, thosc guys all rockcd togcthcrlikc
30 artists on onc song, lor onc causc, cvcn thc gangstcr rappcrs. Thcrcs
not cnough unity amongst artists right now bccausc cvcryonc is guarding
thcir own carccrs so closcly that, cvcn amongst thc conscious artists, you
havc cliqucs. !ts kind ol hard to crack ccrtain cliqucs il yourc not alliliatcd
with ccrtain pcoplc or lrom a ccrtain arca. !ts too bad, and ! think that has
maybc hurt mc a littlc bit, bcing lrom 8oston, and not rcally bcing ablc
to gct too closc with somc ol thc othcr conscious artists lrom placcs likc
Philly or Ncw York or Chicago. vcrybodys doing thcir own thing, and
on thc surlacc it docsnt rcally sccm that thcrcs an initial rcason to rcach
out to cats outsidc ol your cliquc. ! undcrstand how that works, but bccausc
!m not rcally part ol a dccp cliquc, ! havc this rcally kind ol indcpcndcnt
mind statc and individualism is rcally important to mc. Just to scc a lot ol
pcoplc comc out with conscious lyricism would bc amazing whcn thc vast
majority ol thc hiphop audicncc has bccn dumbcd down and bamboozlcd.
! think that right now pcoplc havc bccn scdatcd to thc point whcrc thcy
dont cvcn know that thcyrc bcing madc lools ol as lans. Thcy dont rcal
izc that thcyrc bcing manipulatcd by thc labcls who arc saying, You know
what: Thcsc pcoplc arc going to go along with whatcvcr dumb shit wc put
out thcrc. All wc havc to do is talk about scx and thc shit that hustlcrs do,
and pcoplc will go lor it. Right now audicnccs arc casily cntcrtaincd by
dumbncss bccausc thcyvc bccn numbcd to things that havc any valuc in our
socicty. Thats just a harsh rcality that wc havc to lacc. ! dont likc it, but
its thc truth. ! mcan, il you go to club, that truth will rcvcal itscll im
mcdiatcly. Thcsc arc our timcs, and this is what wcrc dcaling with. ! dont
CHAPTR TV
18
want to bc thc grouchy old guy whos complaining about it all thc timc, !
just want to bc ablc to do what ! do and havc my audicncc cnjoy that.
!t would bc nicc il wc could go back to a timc whcn thc artists wcrc
21, and thcy wcrc maturc and coming out with grcat conccpts and saying
things that could uplilt communitics. 8ut thc truth is, today thc artists arc
35 and thcyrc talking about ignorant shit that kids should bc ashamcd ol.
Maybc you should talk to somc ol thosc artists and havc thcm cxplain it,
bccausc ! dont undcrstand it. ! dont undcrstand how you can bc 30 or 35
ycars old, and still talking about sclling cocainc and all thc girls that youvc
slcpt with. !ts likc, whcrc arc all thc grownups in hiphop: Twcnty ycars
ago all thc grownups in hiphop wcrc 21, and now thc grownups in
hiphop arc thc most immaturc pcoplc that black pcoplc havc rcprcscnting
thcm in mcdia. !ts amazing.

1. (2002)
2. (2003)
3. - - (2003)
4. (2005) |as thc Pcrccptionists|
5. -- (2007)
6. - (2008)
19

!
n 1984, 8rooklynbrcd cmccc 8ig addy Kanc bclricndcd anothcr
upandcoming rappcr namcd 8iz Markic. Thcy bccamc partncrs,
with Kanc pcnning many ol Markics lyrics, and thc two soon joincd
thc Quccns collcctivc known as thc Juicc Crcw. 8oth cmcccs signcd to
Marlcy Marls Cold Chillin Rccords, and Kanc rclcascd his lirst singlc,
Raw, to much acclaim in 1988. Hc thcn rclcascd his dcbut album
, which spawncd thc classic singlc Aint No HallStcppin.
That samc ycar, Kanc also appcarcd on thc lcgcndary possc cut Thc Sym
phony with Kool G. Rap, Craig G., and Masta Acc. Thc lollowing ycar
Kanc rclcascd his sccond gold album - , which outsold
its prcdcccssor on thc strcngth ol thc singlcs Smooth pcrator and thc
Tcddy Rilcyproduccd ! Gct thc Job onc. !n 1998, -
would bc sclcctcd as onc ol s 100 grcatcst hiphop albums.
Thc singlc ! Gct thc Job onc would also bc sclcctcd at numbcr 57 on
\H1s list ol thc 100 grcatcst hiphop singlcs.
!n 1990, Kanc rclcascd his third album, - . Thc album,
which lcaturcd thc singlcs Causc ! Can o !t Right, !ts Hard 8cing thc
Kanc, and thc 8arry Vhitc collaboration All ol Mc, had a morc distinct
R&8 sound than Kancs lans wcrc uscd to. This changc in musical dircc
tion, couplcd with appcaranccs in and Madonnas book , lcd to
criticism by somc within thc hiphop community. !n 1991, Kanc lcnt his
vocals to Patti La8cllcs Fccls Likc Anothcr nc. Hc thcn rclcascd his
lourth album, --, which spawncd thc singlcs Groovc with

CHAPTR THR
20
!t and Thc Lovcr in You. For his 1993 album, -
Kanc cnlistcd thc hclp ol somc ol hiphops most talcntcd produccrs in
asy Mo 8cc, Largc Prolcssor, and thc 8omb Squad. Thc album, which
lcaturcd thc hit singlcs \cry Spccial and How U Gct a Rccord cal:,
dclicatcly walkcd thc linc bctwccn thc R&8 crossovcr sound ol -
and thc hardcorc hiphop sound ol and was
hailcd as a rcturn to lorm lor thc artist. Thc lollowing ycar Kanc rcturncd
with - Although thc wcllrcccivcd album lcaturcd production
by thc likcs ol J Prcmicr and asy Mo 8cc, Kanc himscll took ovcr thc
lions sharc ol production, producing livc ol thc albums 13 songs. Kanc
thcn wcnt on a lourycar hiatus bclorc rclcasing his scvcnth ollcring,
. This timc asy Mo 8cc rcturncd to producc two songs, and
Kanc himscll got bchind thc boards oncc again to producc an imprcssivc
ninc tracks.
8ig addy Kanc is casily onc ol thc lincst and most inllucntial cm
cccs cvcr to touch a microphonc. Hc is routincly sclcctcd to mcdia and
hiphop artists lists ol thc top cmcccs ol all timc. Kancs vcrbal dcxtcrity,
oltcn complcx wordplay, and tcnacity on thc mic makc him onc ol thc truc
grcats. Hc is also crcditcd with discovcring JayZ, has had an imprcssivc
sccond carccr as an actor, and lcd thc way lor artists who routincly combinc
clcmcnts ol hiphop and R&8 today. 8ig addy Kancs impact on hiphop
is immcasurablc.
-
Vhcn ! think ol hiphop, ! think ol a big cultural changc whcrc thc youth
lrom thc strccts had an opportunity to go against onc anothcr without vio
lcncc bcing involvcd. !t could bc battlin rappin, battlin dccjaying, brcak
dancing. You could still bc compctitivc and kccp that drivc and ambition to
bc grcat without causing anyonc any physical harm. Thats onc ol thc main
things that hiphop to mc! wont say mcans, bccausc its changcd
so muchwhcn ! lirst hcard it and lirst got involvcd. Also, it rcprcscnts a
wholc ncw gcnrc ol music.
- - - -- -
- -- - - -
- - -
To bc honcst, it ncvcr rcally bothcrcd mc until wc wcrc shooting thc !
Gct thc Job onc vidco. !t wasnt bccausc ol my rapping, but rathcr it
8!G AY KAN
21
was duc to thc numbcr ol takcs thcy did with mc doing that dancc rou
tinc. Thats whcn it kickcd in and madc it hard lor mc to brcathc. That
was thc lirst timc in my carccr that it had cvcr allcctcd mc. !n thc studio
it was ncvcr a problcm. ! gucss my asthma isnt as bad as a lot ol othcr
pcoplcs. !vc sccn pcoplc whovc had to havc thcir inhalcrs on thc rcgular,
and thcy havc to stay away lrom ccrtain placcs. !ts rcally not bccn that
bad lor mc.
- -
- - -

Vhcn ! was youngcr, ! was always trying to gct a dcal. ! scnt dcmos to
dillcrcnt rccord labcls. ! scnt onc to Nia Rccords. ! scnt onc to Mo
town. ! cvcn mcntioncd thcm in thc songs, ! said somcthing about bc
ing thc lirst rappcr on Motown. ! ncvcr hcard back lrom Motown, and
Nia dcclincd. So ! prctty much gavc up on trying to bccomc an artist.
!nstcad ! just wantcd to bc a battlc rappcr and go lrom ncighborhood
to ncighborhood battling cats. Thcn whcn ! mct 8iz, hc was tclling mc
that wc could actually makc somc moncy doing shows. Hc said, Vcrc
gonna gct a rccord dcal. Just trust mc. And, you know, ! startcd bclicv
ing him. Vhcn wc wcrc doing shows, hc showcd mc dillcrcnt things. A
lot ol timcs ! wantcd to spit my battlc rhymcs, and hc kncw that ! also
had lunny rhymcs about girls, which ! had bccn doing sincc about 1982
whcn ! hcard Grandmastcr Cazs Yvcttcs Story. Latcr, whcn Slick
Rick camc out around 1985 and madc La i a i, ! stoppcd doing
that bccausc that was prctty much his thing. 8ut 8iz was tclling mc that
thcsc rhymcs would work on stagc. At lirst ! didnt listcn to him, and !
did thc battlc rhymcs, and thc crowd wasnt paying attcntion. From that
point on, ! listcncd to 8iz and did thc lunny rhymcs about thc girls and
wc uscd to rock cvcry night. Hc taught mc a lot about working onstagc.
Hc also taught mc a lot about paticncc, and basically thc art lorm ol
making a rccord.
- -
-
Pcoplc startcd noticing thc lacc lrom thc vidco and that typc ol thing. !
startcd gctting a lot ol ncw lricnds |laughs|, and that typc ol thing. 8ut !
gucss things didnt rcally changc until Aint No HallStcppin.
CHAPTR THR
22

- -

Vhat happcncd was ! was at Cool Cs housc, and hc had thc 45s that 8iz
had bought. Vc wcrc ovcr thcrc just going through thcm, and ! hcard that
onc, and ! was likc, Yo, thats kind ol hot. So C loopcd it up and ! startcd
rhyming to it, putting somcthing to it. A littlc whilc latcr 8iz callcd, brag
ging about somc othcr rccord hcd lound. And ! was likc, Sincc you lound
that onc, you probably dont nccd this onc right hcrc, right: And hc wasnt
cvcn paying attcntion. Hc was likc, ! dont nccd it. ! dont carc. So ! got it
and took it homc and listcncd to it, trying to ligurc out whcrc ! wantcd to
go with it. And thcn ! lound thc Hcatwavc joint Aint No HallStcppin,
and ! was likc, ycah, this is gonna bc dopc on thc chorus. 8ut thcn ! wantcd
somc noisc on it, too, and ! camc up with thc UF part. Thcn ! hcadcd to
Marlcy Marls housc to put it down, but as usual, ! stoppcd by ownstairs
Rccords. My man J.C. who workcd in thcrc had put a ncw 45 to thc sidc,
and hc playcd that Monk Higgins joint with thc horns. ! was likc, Givc
mc that. ! didnt cvcn know il thosc horns would lit, but ! wcnt to Marlcys
housc and was likc, Try this, try this . . . Marlcy was arguing with mc.
Yourc putting too much shit in thc song, and its gonna sound crowdcd.
Thcrcs just too much going on. !t should just bc that Hcatwavc samplc
and thc bcat. And ! was likc, Nah, luck that. And hc put it all in and it
soundcd grcat. And thcn hc was likc, Ycah, ycah, thats hot.
- -
-
- - --
-- - - -
Nah, at thc timc wc rccordcd it mc and Kool G. Rap wantcd to lcavc thc
scssion! Vc didnt cvcn want to do thc song. Vhcn ! had donc my song
Raw, G and myscll had thcn donc a lrccstylc to that bcat. And altcr
Raw camc out, Marlcy startcd playing thc lrccstylc. vcryonc was calling
thc radio station asking to hcar thc rcmix ol Rawthcy thought it was
a rcmix, but rcally it was just a lrccstylc that wc had donc. So Marlcy said,
! want you to do a song on my album togcthcr. Vc agrccd, but thcn thc
ncxt thing you know Marlcy camc back and said hc wantcd to put Craig
G. on it. Mc and G just rcally wantcd to do thc song by oursclvcs, wc
8!G AY KAN
23
didnt want anyonc clsc on thc song. 8ut thcn Marlcy playcd somcthing
Craig had donc callcd uck Alcrt, and wc wcrc likc, Ycah, thats kind
ol hot. So ! was likc okay, ycah. Plus, ! likcd Craig bccausc hc was onc ol
thosc undcrdogs that Varncr 8ros. hadnt rcally wantcd in thc bcginning,
just likc mc. So ! was likc, Ycah, cool. 8ut thcn on thc day ol thc studio
scssion Marlcy camc with anothcr dudc with somc bigasscd ncrdylooking
glasscs, talking about, This is my ncw artist and ! want to put him on it,
too. That was whcn mc and G was likc, Hcll no, lcts gct out ol hcrc.
Lcts just go. 8ut thcn Masta Acc rhymcd, and his rhymc was bcttcr than
Craigs and wc wcrc likc, Vow, dudc is hot!
You know, whcn Kool G. Rap rhymcd, his lirst rhymc ran oll thc
rccl. ! hadnt cvcn rhymcd yct! Marlcy was trying to convincc G to cut his
rhymc short, and G couldnt ligurc out whcrc to cut it. Finally hc just said,
Forgct it, !ll just say anothcr rhymc. And you know, ! think that rhymc
workcd bcttcr anyway.
- - - -
-- --
Vhat happcncd was, thcrc wcrc pcoplc gctting in my car saying, Hcs trying
to play you with that word to daddy linc. And thcrc wcrc pcoplc trying to
convincc him that ! was trying to play him with my saying rap soloist, you
dont want nonc ol this. So ycah, it got to that point whcrc ! had a song
rcady to go whcrc ! was gonna say somcthing about him. And thcrc was word
on thc strcct that hc had a song dissing mc. !t was callcd 8rcak thc Vrath
in Hall. ric 8.s brothcr was my road managcr. Mc and ric havc always
bccn cool. And onc night ! wcnt and pickcd this girl up and shc gavc mc a
picturc that said, car Kanc, ! wanna Sct !t ll and gct RAV, Aint
No HallStcppin causc !m gonna 8rcak Your Vrath in Hall. And ! gavc
thc picturc to rics brothcr, Ant, and hc rcad it and laughcd.
To makc a long story short, at thc cnd ol thc night hc was likc, Yo,
this shit is gonna gct out ol hand. Yall niggas nccd to talk. So hc callcd
Rakim and put mc on thc phonc with him, and ! askcd him about thc word
to daddy linc and askcd him il that was dircctcd toward mc. Hc said no,
it wasnt, and that it was just somcthing that Long !sland niggas say. Thcn
hc askcd mc about thc rap soloist linc and ! said, Nah, !m not saying that
dont want nonc ol this. !m saying that !m a rap soloist, and compcti
tion dont want nonc ol this. !m calling myscll a soloist. !m not talking
CHAPTR THR
24
about you. Anyonc who rhymcs alonc is a soloist. So wc squashcd that,
and, you know, at that point that was that.
8ut thcn about a ycar latcr, altcr thcy did , thcy wantcd to
do -. So thcy askcd mc and Ra to battlc, Kool Mo cc and
LL Cool J, Furious Fivc and Cold Crush, Shantc and Sparky . And this
was gonna bc a tclcviscd paypcrvicw cvcnt. And Rakim didnt want to
do it. And thcy callcd mc and askcd mc to talk to ric and Ra. So ! callcd
ric 8. and was likc, Yo, thcyrc saying that yall arcnt going to do it.
|Laughs.| And ric and his stupid ass gcts on thc phonc and says, No,
wcrc gonna bust your ass, Kanc. Vcrc gonna bust your ass. Thats a donc
dcal. So ! callcd thcm back and told thcm that ric said thc battlc was still
happcning. Thcn thcy callcd mc back thc ncxt day and was likc, ! dont
think its ric. ! think its Rakim. Could you talk to him: And ! was likc,
! dont know him. Mc and ric arc cool, but ! dont know Rakim, and wc
dont havc that typc ol rclationship. vcr sincc thcn, dudc has bccn likc a
rcclusc whcncvcr !m around.
- -
- - - -
- - -
Thcrc was this guy ! battlcd at this school callcd rasmus Hall. ! dont rc
mcmbcr his namc, but it was onc ol thosc battlcs whcrc ! was tcaring his ass
up cvcry round, but hc was just rclcntlcss. Hc was onc ol thosc dudcs who
wrotc likc a hundrcd bar rhymcs. Hc wasnt saying anything lly, but it was just
that hc rhymcd so long and hc had so many rhymcs! Hc just wantcd to stand
out thcrc and go . Thats whcn ! rcalizcd that thcrc has to bc somc sort
ol timc limit. This isnt thc way lights or baskctball gamcs or any othcr com
pctitions arc wonjust going until somcbody runs out ol rhymcs |laughs|,
no mattcr whos saying thc bcttcr shit. That dudc had a lot ol conlidcncc in
himscll, and cvcn though ! was murdcring him, hc just didnt want to stop.
! rcmcmbcr anothcr timc thcrc was this guy at this club in Philly callcd
Altcr Midnight. ! had gonc likc two rounds and had just catcn his ass up,
but hc just did not want to stop. Lady 8, thc host lrom thc radio station,
had alrcady told him hcd lost, but dudc did not want to stop! And ! was in
thc middlc ol my stagc show. Finally it got to thc point whcrc ! was likc,
You know what: !ll tcll you what, dog . . . hcrcs a hundrcd dollars. Just
takc that and cnjoy your luckin night.
8!G AY KAN
25
-
Nah. ! dont cvcn writc likc that anymorc.
- - - - -
- -
!ts lunny. !n thc latc ninctics it uscd to bc likc that. ! could havc bccn at
thc mall, anywhcrc . . . !t was thc typc ol thing whcrc at that point and timc
thcy wcrc looking at mc likc ! was old and a hasbccn. !t was likc, Hcrcs
thc pcrlcct timc to gct this win undcr my bclt. 8ut at that timc ! was still
rcally hcavy into what ! do, with that typc ol lovc lor it.
- - -
- -
-- - -

! gucss rcally thc bcst way to sum that up is to say that ! probably should
havc waitcd about livc morc ycars to do that and thcn just linkcd up with
Pully. ! probably should havc just staycd with thc Raws and thc Aint
No HallStcppins until about 1994 and thcn just linkcd up with Pully and
said, Yo, this is my vision.

-
nc day wc wcrc at Quincy Joncs housc lor this cookout, and 8arry was
thcrc. Vc talkcd. Vhcn wc got into thc car, ! was alrcady listcning to 8arry
in thcrc on casscttc. Vhcn wc got in and it camc on, hc just laughcd. Ha
ha, sho you right, Kanc. And hc said, Vc should gct togcthcr and do
somcthing. ! was likc, Anytimc. Vc hookcd up about a wcck latcr, and
wc lound out that wc had a lot in common. You know, my birthday was on
Scptcmbcr 10th and his was on Scptcmbcr 12th. Vc likcd a lot ol thc samc
stull . . . Vc scnt somconc to thc liquor storc to gct somc champagnc and
thcy didnt havc it, so ! was likc, Shit, thcn just givc mc a bccr. And ! didnt
want to say .. in lront ol him, and hc said .. Vc just clickcd.
Thcn wc wcrc just going through thc idca and ! said, Vhat il wc call
it All ol Mc: And hc just stoppcd and lookcd at mc likc hcd sccn a ghost.
And thcn hc told mc about a song hcd had in thc scvcntics callcd All ol
Mc Vants All ol You that hc had ncvcr rclcascd. And that cndcd up bcing
thc hook lor thc song. Vc had to switch it around to makc it lit that track,
CHAPTR THR
26
but hc took part ol that song lrom thc scvcntics and madc it thc hook lor
thc song. Hc switchcd thc cadcncc ol it around a littlc bit . . . Vc wcrc at
Rccord nc, whcrc thcy havc thrcc booths. You know, thcy havc a booth
lor thc main lcad, a booth lor thc background, and a booth lor thc band,
whcrc cvcryonc can do thcir thing at onc timc in onc shot. So wc wcrc in
scparatc booths just going back and lorth at cach othcr, no writtcn stull,
just oll thc top ol our hcads. Vc just said whatcvcr thc hcll camc to mind,
and it was a wrap. !t was that simplc.
! think wc did our lcads in a mattcr ol about 30 minutcs, and thcn it
took anothcr six hours just to do thc background! |Chucklcs.|
- - -
- -

ric 8. had givcn mc a call and told mc that Sugc Knight was going to bc
starting an ast Coast division ol cath Row Rccords, which hc was going
to bc running. ric said hc told him ! was a lrcc agcnt and Sugc said hc
wantcd to sign mc. Hc askcd mc il ! would comc in and mcct with him,
and ! was likc, Surc. So ! llcw out to L.A. to mcct with Sugc and wc
cndcd up going to a Tyson light in \cgas. Vc wcrc just hanging out and
kicking it, talking about what could bc donc togcthcr, and hc said, You
and Pac nccd to do somcthing togcthcr. And ! was likc, Thats my man,
cvcr sincc thc igital Undcrground days. And hc was likc, Vhy dont
you guys go back and do somcthing : And wc actually hoppcd on
a planc that night and llcw back to L.A. to cath Row studios. Vc actu
ally bangcd out thrcc songs that night: that onc, a song callcd Too Latc
Playcr lor Hammcr, and somcthing clsc lor Hammcr . . . a song ! wrotc
callcd Vhat You Gonna o lor Mc: Vc bangcd out thrcc joints that
night. Thcn altcr mc and Sugc talkcd about thc busincss sidc, ! dccidcd
that wasnt rcally what ! wantcd to do.
-
--
! mct him through a mutual lricnd who livcd around my way. Hc wantcd mc
to do a tapc with Jaz, and ! camc through to do it, and Jaz askcd il his man
could rhymc. Altcrwards my man was likc, o you think you could hclp Jaz
gct a dcal: And ! was likc, Actually, ! likc thc littlc lightskinncd dudc bct
tcr. And thcn mc and Jay linkcd up and hc camc out with mc on thc road.
8!G AY KAN
27
! was going through a Patti La8cllc stagc at that timc whcrc ! wantcd to do
outlit changcs during thc show. So ! would do hall thc show and thcn go in
thc back to changc, and thcn JayZ would lrccstylc on stagc whilc ! was gonc.
- - -

Ycah. 8ack thcn Kcith was MC o amagc. Thcrc was an artist ! was
working with who was lricnds with Kcith Murrays unclc. Hc brought him
to onc ol my shows and thcn lct him rhymc lor mc in a rcstaurant. Vc wcrc
playing around, acting likc wc wcrc battling.
-
Hc was dopc, and hc was hungry. Hc was sitting thcrc rcally quict thc
cntirc timc, and thcn as soon as thcy mcntioncd him rhyming . . . !t wasnt
likc, Nah, or any ol that gooly shit niggas say today likc, Yo, ! nccd a
bcat. Hc just jumpcd up and wcnt at it, and spit hard, likc hc was scrious.
So ! always lclt likc onc day hc was going to do somcthing big.
- -- - -
- -

You know, thc cra whcrc !m lrom, thats why wc startcd doing it in thc
lirst placc. You dont gct into it bccausc you want to bc rich and lamous,
you gct into it bccausc you want to bc thc bcst at it. So lor somconc to say
somcthing likc that, its a bcautilul thing. !t makcs mc lccl likc ! accom
plishcd my mission.

1. (1988)
2. - (1989)
3. - (1990)
4. -- (1991)
5. - (1993)
6. - (1994)
7. (1998)
8. - (2001)
9. - (2011)
28

rcs and Mista Lawngc, two tccns lrom Ncw York whosc lamilics
had rclocatcd to North Carolina, cstablishcd thc hiphop group
8lack Shccp in thc latc 1980s. Thc duo soon rcturncd to Ncw
York whcrc thcy landcd a rccording dcal with Mcrcury/Polygram Rccords.
Thc group thcn madc a thundcrous cntrancc into thc rap gamc with thcir
hit 1991 song Flavor ol thc Month. Thc group, an alliliatc ol thc Nativc
Tongucs, a collcctivc ol jazzinllucnccd socialmindcd artists, thcn rclcascd
thcir gold sclling dcbut album - . Thc album, rc
lcascd during thc hcyday ol Ncw York hiphop, spawncd two morc high
charting hits, Strobclight Honcy and Thc Choicc !s Yours. Thc lattcr
singlc spcnt 16 wccks on thc Hot R&8 Singlcs chart and would
bccomc univcrsally rccognizcd as a bonalidc classic, as wcll as bccoming thc
song most lrcqucntly associatcd with thc group. rcs and Mista Lawngc
thcn madc a mcmorablc appcarancc on \ancssa Villiams singlc Vork to
o, which rankcd as high as numbcr cight on thc Hot ancc
Music chart. uring this pcriod thc group also cstablishcd thcir own vanity
imprint (nc Lovc) through Mcrcury/Polygram.
!n 1994, rcs and Mista Lawngc rcturncd with thcir cagcrly antici
patcd sccond album . Vith thc rclcasc ol this album, dcsigncd
to bc a countcrpart to thcir dcbut, thc group showcd growth and displaycd
ncw dimcnsions not sccn on - . As thc two mcn told
magazinc, thcy sought to avoid bcing sccn as just anothcr onc
ol thosc Ncw York acts with thc samc old bcats. Vhilc thc album undcr

8LACK SHP RS
29
pcrlormcd duc to a lack ol promotion, was praiscd by critics lor
ollcring somcthing morc substantial and artistic than most ol thc albums
out at thc timc. Following thc disappointing salcs ol , 8lack
Shccp soon disbandcd. Thcy havc sincc rcunitcd to rccord thc titlc track
lor thc lilm , as wcll as thc 2002 P .
rcs, who has sincc changcd his monikcr to 8lack Shccp rcs, has
lound somc work as an actor and has cnjoycd a lruitlul solo carccr. !n
1999, hc rclcascd his solo dcbut . Scvcn ycars latcr
hc rclcascd thc album , which had startcd out as a 8lack
Shccp album but thcn bccamc a solo album altcr Mista Lawngc oncc again
lclt thc group during its rccording. !n 2009, 8lack Shccp rcs droppcd his
third solo projcct, -.
-
!ts kind ol grown ovcr thc ycars. !vc kind ol comc upon a rcvclation
that its thc music ol thc pcoplc. ! hcard this poctan Alrican catwho
was spcaking on hiphop. Hc obscrvcd that il you llip hiphop around
backwards its pihpoh . . . . !vc rcally cmbraccd that. Hcs right.
Hiphop is much biggcr than a culturc ol a scct ol pcoplc. Hiphop has
thc powcr to allcct , as docs any lorm ol music. ! would cvcn go
so lar as to say that its possibly morc powcrlul than othcr lorms ol music
on a ccrtain lcvcl. !t can morc dircctly allcct thc childrcn than othcr things
that arc ollcrcd to thcm. Ultimatcly, thats how !vc grown to scc music: as
somcthing that allccts thc pcoplcand not always lor thc bcst.
- - - -
- - -
- - - -

! dclinitcly scc thc two as bcing dillcrcnt. Again, hiphop is somcthing
that spcaks to thc pcoplc and is lor thc pcoplc. !t spcaks not only ol your
strugglcs, but it can also spcak ol whimsical things. !t can bc onc ol a billion
things, but its a voicc ol thc pcoplc. Thc mcchanics ol such . . . thcrcs a
tradition thats bccn passcd down and is adhcrcd to. !ts crcativc, and origi
nal, and doing somcthing just a littlc bit dillcrcnt whilc still bcing groundcd
in thcsc principlcs.
Rap music, to mc, is pop music. !ts thc cookiccuttcr stull thats all
ovcr thc radio. Somconc combincd thc NA ol pop music and hiphop
CHAPTR FUR
30
music, and thc rcsult is rap music, which docsnt rcally adhcrc to that
principlc. !ts madc by artists who dont rcally look at it as an art lorm so
much as thcy look at it as a hustlc or a busincss. !ts work, and its just work.
Thats cool, and !m not mad at thosc artists. 8ut lor mc, its morc than
just work. Vcvc gonc rcally lar . . . its just too bad wcrc going thc wrong
way. Vcvc comc rcally lar. Vho cvcr kncw thcrc would bc hundrcds ol
millionaircs bccausc ol hiphop: And thats such a powcrlul statcmcnt, but
whats sad is what wcrc doing with that moncy. Coming lrom thc condi
tions that wc all camc lrom, its shamclul lor us to turn our backs on that
and on cach othcr. Somconc likc Kool Hcrc or Mcllc Mcl or Kurtis 8low
shouldnt want lor anything. Thcrc arc rcsponsibilitics to whcrc wc comc
lrom that wcrc not adhcring to.
- - -
-
- -- - - -
! think cvcryoncs bccomc kind ol lazy in approach. Somcthing thats al
ways bccn in cvcry community, but cspccially thc black community, is that
you nccd to gct moncy. Gct moncy, wcvc got to gct moncy. And thcn a
way was discovcrcd to gct that moncy through thc music, and it bccamc a
hustlc. You know, ! dont ncccssarily havc to go to school il ! gct moncy
and ! dont ncccssarily havc to adhcrc to anything il ! gct moncy. And
that cvcntually bccamc a blucprint in music, and cvcryonc just sct out to
makc moncy. Today thcrc arc a lot ol cats who rap, but thcrc arcnt a lot
ol artists. 8ut dont gct mc wrong, thcrc arc a lot ol cats out thcrc who arc
looking lor, and arc vcry happy with, rap music. ! would just likc to bc ablc
to prcscnt thcm with morc options.
- - - - - -
- -
- - -
- - - - - - -
!t docs disturb mc a littlc bit, but you kind ol havc to stick to your convic
tions rcgarding who you arc. !t allccts mc almost likc an cntouragc. !l ! go
out with a bunch ol knucklchcads, and somcbody slaps thc shit out ol somc
body, itll bc, rcs lrom 8lack Shccp is wild. Hcs crazy. ! might not havc
cvcn bccn thcrc. ! might havc bccn in thc bathroom, but !m running with
this crcw that rcprcscnts mc incorrcctly. !ts thc samc with thc music . . .
8LACK SHP RS
31
! play goll, and !m playing with an oldcr gcntlcman. Hc askcd mc what !
do, and !m trying to cxplain to him that !m a hiphop artist. And his only
point ol rclcrcncc was what hc hcars, and hc startcd looking at mc. Now
his attitudc was morc that hc didnt scc that in mc. ! dont scc you as bc
ing that kind ol pcrson. This was bascd on what littlc about hiphop that
hc kncw or had sccn prior. ! thcn spcnt thc ncxt lour hours cxplaining to
him that thc music comcs in dillcrcnt shapcs, sizcs, and colors. You know,
thcrcs good and bad cvcrything. ! said, !ts unlortunatc that you havcnt
bccn introduccd to any ol thc good, powcrlul music thats out thcrc, but
plcasc dont think by any mcans that cvcn rcllccts hall ol whats out thcrc.
Hc walkcd away with a bcttcr undcrstanding, but lor a momcnt, ! cringcd
bccausc ! kncw that hc was looking at mc bcncath my charactcr. And thcn
thcrc arc timcs whcn you just havc to lct it go, its not up to you to light
cvcry battlc. Thcrc arc timcs that ! dont havc thc timc to cxplain all ol
this, so ! walk away knowing that somconc is looking at mc bcncath my
charactcr. So thanks, rap music, ! apprcciatc that. |Laughs.|
- - -
- -
- - - -
- - -

! think its starting to dic down, to bc honcst with you, cvcn though anyonc
and thcir mom may spcak about cocainc and guns. !ts kind ol bizarrc, but
whos to say that a backpack kid docsnt comc into contact with cocainc
or a gun: Thcy probably do, il wcrc going to bc honcst about it. 8ut its
twolold. !ts thcm trying to play thc gamc, and thc gamc kind ol playing
thcm. And just bccausc you spcak about onc thing docsnt mcan you cant
spcak about anothcr. That pcrson may bc looking at things likc, amn,
! thought thcrc would bc morc options lor mc out hcrc. !ts unlortunatc,
but it may bc thcir rcality. You know, !m having to play this gamc mu
sically, but !m also having to play this gamc in rcality. Thcy might bc
sclling thcmsclvcs short, but that may wcll bc thcir rcality. amn, ! wcnt
to school, but now !vc got this cocainc and !m trying to gct somc moncy
to lccd my kids. ! think it dcpcnds on how thc artist prcscnts it as to how
justiliablc that kind ol subjcct mattcr is. Thcrcs a wholc gamut ol songs
that can bc madccvcn il its thcm spcaking on a gun or cocainc. 8ut as an
CHAPTR FUR
32
artist, ! would likc to think that thcrc arc rccords that can bc madc outsidc
that box.
-
!t was rcally a situation whcrc Lawngc introduccd mc to thcm. ! had mct
Lawngc in North Carolina, and wc both wound up moving back to Ncw
York. Vc happcncd to bump into cach othcr on thc strcct in Manhattan,
and hc was kind ol in bctwccn spots to livc. ! had a two bcdroom that ! had
just gottcn into. Hc was a cool dudc that ! had mct down south, and ! was
likc, Yo, you can crash with mc. This was bclorc ! cvcn kncw anything
that was going on musically. Hc was just a guy that ! was lond ol. So hc
comcs up and brings his rccords and cquipmcnt to his room, and hc scts
it up. And thcn hc starts cxplaining how hcs bccn coming up, and how
hcs hookcd up with Rcd Alcrt, who had him in thc studio with thc Junglc
8rothcrs whilc thcy wcrc rccording thcir lirst album. Hc had all kinds ol
storics about thcsc cats that Rcd Alcrt had put him onto. So, slowly but
surcly, ! mct Rcd, and thcn ! startcd mccting cvcryonc around Rcd, which
was Junglc 8rothcrs, c La Soul, Tribc Callcd Qucst . . . Vc just kind ol
hit it oll with all thcsc cats, and wc lound oursclvcs hanging out with thcm
all thc timc.
Lawngc and ! had startcd rhyming togcthcr back in North Carolina,
so wc uscd his cquipmcnt to kind ol put somc stull togcthcr. ! startcd scc
ing that this rcally could work, so wc put our moncy togcthcr and madc a
dcmo. ncc wc prcscntcd it to Rcd and his managcmcnt ollicc, thcy madc
somc calls to labcls on our bchall. Thcy sct up a lcw mcctings, and that was
it. Vc wcrc oll and running.
- - - - - -
- - - --
-
! am so gratclul that Thc Choicc !s Yours has stood thc tcst ol timc. That
is such a dopc thing. ! mcan, ! dont rcally carc about \H1s list, but on thc
othcr hand, to bc in thc company ol 100 grcat rccords . . . ! apprcciatc that.
Thats lovc. !ts dclinitcly a cool thing.
A lunny thing about that list . . . Vhcn thcy intcrvicwcd mc lor that,
thcir list was dillcrcnt lrom what cndcd up appcaring on that program.
n thc original list, wc wcrc numbcr ninc, it was thc numbcr ninc rccord.
Thcn, whcn thcy wound up airing thc program, it was numbcr 73 or
8LACK SHP RS
33
whatcvcr. |Chucklcs.| And that was grcat, but ninc would havc bccn rcally
dopc. ! was alrcady making plans bascd on its bcing numbcr ninc, but shit
happcns.
- - - -
- -- -
- - - -
! think you just try to bc dopc, pcriod. Thcrcs dclinitcly somc prcssurc
thcrc . . . Thcrcs a bar, and ! think cvcryonc should sct a bar by which to
mcasurc thcir succcsscs. You havc to bc honcst with yoursclldocs this
ncw song rcach up to that bar: !ts not ncccssarily that it has to bc bcttcr
than that prcvious rccord, but you want it to rcach that bar rcgarding thc
calibcr ol work that you do. And il it docsnt, you havc to bc honcst. ! think
a lot ol pcoplc gct disillusioncd and start to bclicvc that cvcrything thcy
makc is dopc. ! think somc ol thcsc cats nccd to humblc thcmsclvcs a littlc
bit and undcrstand that thats not ncccssarily thc casc. Somc days, you can
writc somcthing thats grcat, and on othcr days, you can writc somcthing,
and whcn you look at it, you can tcll that somcthing was on your mind. You
might cvcn say, Vhat thc hcll is this: vcrything you writc or rccord is
not going to bc a classic, and you havc to undcrstand that and bc ablc to
dillcrcntiatc bctwccn thc good and thc bad.
- - -
-- - -
- - -
- -
Sampling is dopc, cspccially whcn its donc whcrc ! comc lrom, and thats
whcn you takc a snippctsomcthing that by itscll may not cvcn bc rcc
ognizablcand altcr that by changing spccds or chopping it. !m talking
about a onc or two bar loop, which is maybc only lour or livc scconds, and
is lrom a song that has long sincc bccn lorgottcn. 8ut thcrc wcrc artists who
saw thc busincss mcchanic ol it . . . You know, il you takc somcthing that
was vcry popular and put somcthinganythingovcr it, it will crcatc nos
talgia, and it will bc listcncd to. !ts simplc mathcmatics, it will bc listcncd
to, and il you promotc it, it can bccomc somcthing hugc oncc again. Thcn
thcrc wcrc groups likc 8lack Shccp and c La Soul and Tribc Callcd Qucst
who wcrc trying to takc sampling to thc ncxt lcvcl in rcgards to thc art
lorm ol it. !t bccamc a thing whcrc, ultimatcly, thcrc was so much moncy
CHAPTR FUR
34
bcing madc oll thc lazy man sampling that anyonc using any samplc lrom
thc music has to pay so much moncy that it bccomcs cost prohibitivc. Thc
original artists scc a possibility ol a big payday and ask lor way too much
moncy nowcspccially lor somconc likc mc who isnt trying to build his
cntirc song around that onc samplc. !n thc way wc did it, wc took a small
snippct and changcd it to thc point whcrc it was unrccognizablc and it thcn
bccamc somcthing ol your own. 8ut ycs, sampling was dclinitcly abuscd
a littlc bit carly in thc gamc, and as a rcsult, cats now want astronomical
amounts ol moncy lor cvcn thc tinicst samplc.

1 - (1991) |as 8lack Shccp|

2 (1994) |as 8lack Shccp|
3 (1999)
4 (2002) |as 8lack Shccp|
5 (2006)
6 - (2009)
35

ast Flatbush, 8rooklyn trio thc FuSchnickcns was compriscd ol

Chip Fu, Moc Fu, and Poc Fu. Thc thrcc talcntcd lyricists gaincd at
tcntion altcr pcrlorming at an cvcnt at Howard Univcrsity and wcrc
quickly signcd to Jivc Rccords. Thc FuSchnickcns 1992 dcbut singlc Ring
thc Alarm was an instant hit, crcating anticipation lor thc groups dcbut
album -. Thc album soon spawncd two morc hit
singlcs in La Schmoovc (lcaturing Tribc Callcd Qucsts Philc awg) and
Truc FuSchnick. Thc album rcachcd thc Top 20 on magazincs
Top R&8/HipHop Albums chart, and was ccrtilicd gold.
!n 1993, thc group rccordcd thc song Vhats Up oc: (Can Vc
Rock) with N8A baskctball scnsation Shaquillc Ncal (as Shaq Fu).
Thc song bccamc a Top 40 hit and madc thc group cvcn biggcr stars. Thc
lollowing ycar, thc FuSchnickcns rclcascd thcir sccond album, -
. Although thc album was not as succcsslul as thcir lirst, it did
spawn anothcr hit song, 8rcakdown. As thc musical landscapc ol hiphop
was changing altcr thc rcccnt rclcasc ol albums by ncwcomcrs VuTang
Clan and 8lack Moon, Chip Fu urgcd his lcllow group mcmbcrs to changc
thcir stylc and adapt to thc ncw sounds ol thc gcnrc. This lcd to inncr tur
moil within thc group, and this, couplcd with Jivc Rccords insistcncc that
thcy crcatc morc mainstrcam music, lcd thc group to disband.
!n 1995, thc labcl rclcascd a grcatcst hits collcction which containcd
lour prcviously unrclcascd tracks, but thc FuSchnickcns wcrc linishcd
as a group. Altcr rcmaining rclativcly silcnt lor ncarly a dccadc, Chip Fu

CHAPTR F!\
36
rccmcrgcd in 2004 on Ali Shahccd Muhammads solo dcbut,
. !n 2007, Chip Fu was askcd to appcar on thc rcmix ol Nas
Vhcrc Arc Thcy Now: That samc ycar, Chip Fu rclcascd thc popular
undcrground singlc Lovc Mi Scnsi. Hc thcn appcarcd alongsidc Zhancs
Rcncc Nculvillc on thc track Rcady li Var on Pctc Rocks - -
album. Chip Fu rclcascd thc undcrground mixtapc in 2009,
and thc P in 2010.
-
Vhcn ! think ol hiphop, ! think ol lilcsaving. Growing up in 8rooklyn, !
think a lot ol pcoplc wcrcnt as opcn to as many things as othcr pcoplc arc.
! say lilcsaving bccausc thcrc arc probably a lot ol worsc things that somc
ol us would havc bccn doing il thcrc was no hiphop.
- - -
For my brothcrs 13th birthday party, ! wantcd to givc him a gilt. Thcrc was
this crcw in thc ncighborhood callcd thc JamaLot Crcw, which consistcd
ol ducatcd Rappcr and octor !cc, who latcr madc it big as part ol UTF.
Thc JamaLot Crcw playcd at my brothcrs 13th birthday party, and ! actu
ally wrotc a rhymc lor my brothcr. ! kickcd this rhymc lor my brothcr, and
ducatcd Rappcr camc ovcr to mc and said, Kccp that up. You could bc good
at this somcday. ! was likc, Cool. All right. And thcn ycars latcr, ! lound
out that thc guy who told mc that was ducatcd Rappcr. That blcw my mind.
For him and ! to mcct and actually talk about it latcr was kind ol lunny.
- -
! think thc momcnt ! kncw ! wantcd to bc an cmccc was whcn ! hcard ric
8. !s Prcsidcnt. Vhcn ! hcard that, ! lookcd at things dillcrcntly. Rakim
changcd thc way in which you mancuvcrcd your pcn on papcr. Thcrc was no
morc cat/rat/bat rhyming. ! was attractcd to that, and ! said, Thats what !
want to bc. ! want to bc an cmccc ol that calibcr. ! didnt want to cmulatc
his stylc, but ! wantcd to bc ablc to movc pcoplc with thc things ! said.
- -

Ycah. !t was kind ol strangc bccausc ! wasnt uscd to that. Vhat gavc mc
thc push to actually do it was 8usta Rhymcs, bccausc wc wcnt to high
school togcthcr. Thcrc was this placc callcd Voodys in Manhattan, and
wc both wcnt thcrc. KRSnc was thcrc in thc crowd. Hc was likc, Yo,
CH!P FU
37
you should gct on stagc and show thcsc pcoplc what youvc got and just
lct thcm know how nicc you arc. You should just tcar thcsc cmcccs down.
And ! did just that. And lrom thcrc, ! battlcd at cvcry club that had an
cmccc battlc. Thcrc was onc battlc that was billcd HipHop vs. Rcggac,
and ! actually signcd up on both lists. And ! won both battlcs.
-
Moc Fu and Poc Fu had alrcady startcd thc group. ! was a solo artist, and
! was looking lor somcthing to gct into. Thcy wcrc likc, Yo, you should
comc down to onc ol our practiccs. ! wcnt down thcrc and torc it up and
thcy wcrc likc, You nccd to bc part ol thc group. That was actually right
bclorc ! startcd doing thc cmccc battlcs. ! kind ol did thosc just to gct thc
namc ol thc group out thcrc. ! did my thing, and cvcrything happcncd lrom
that point. Poc Fu and ! actually grcw up on thc samc block. His grandla
thcr and my lathcr wcrc lricnds. Thcn Poc Fu mct Moc Fu in high school
and thcy lormcd thc group, so ! didnt rcally know Moc Fu at thc timc.
- -
Ycah, thcy alrcady had thc namc. ! was likc, Arc you scrious: All right.
Vhy: Thcn wc gavc thc namc mcanings, likc For Unity. 8ut at thc timc
it didnt rcally mcan anything. Thcy just wantcd to comc up with a namc
that would stand out lrom thc rcst ol thc groups out thcrc.
- -
- - - - - --
-
! think hiphop is so scrious today basically bccausc ol thc changc in cli
matc rcgarding politics, things that arc happcning in thc strccts, pcoplc
passing away. So now a lot ol pcoplc want to bc takcn scriously. 8ack thcn,
things wcrc happcning, ycs, but not to thc lcvcl that thcy arc happcning
now. ! think pcoplc gct suckcd up into thc way thc mcdia portrays hiphop
music now, and thcy gct lost, and its tcrriblc. !ts likc you havc to bc a ccr
tain way in hiphopyou havc to bc angry, you havc to lash out at pcoplc.
To gct rcspcct, thcy lccl likc you havc to gct arrcstcd, you havc to scll drugs.
!t wasnt likc that whcn wc wcrc coming up.
-- - --
Right now its morc about bcing scrious, but ! think thcrc has to bc a lot
morc balancc. ! think thats whats missing in hiphop, pcriod. ! should bc
CHAPTR F!\
38
ablc to hcar a rakc rccord, and thcn a Rcdman rccord right altcr that.
Thcrcs no rcason why ! cant. Again, its all about thc changc in climatc. !
do think thcrc arc somc undcrground acts coming up now who arc trying
to bring it back to that point whcrc it was morc lun, which should at lcast
balancc it out a littlc bit.
- -
- -
!t was crazy. Thc cncrgy was crazy. Vatching Ali |Shahccd Muhammad|
takc nothing and makc somcthing out ol it . . . Hc kncw what hc was do
ing bclorc thc track was madc. That kind ol shockcd mc. Vhcn it camc
to crcating music, it was rcally casy lor him. !t wasnt likc how somc ol thc
produccrs arc lighting to comc up with bcats. Hc kncw what hc was doing.
Philc camc in and droppcd his vcrsc . . . vcryonc was just vcry locuscd at
that timc. Vc wcrc locuscd on winning.
-
- - - - -

!ts sort ol thc samc. Thc only thing thats dillcrcnt is that wcrc a lot oldcr
|laughs|, and our approach is dillcrcnt. Hcll say somcthing likc, Chip, you
cant makc a rccord likc this. Vcvc alrcady madc scvcral rccords togcthcr,
and somctimcs hcd say, Vhat yourc doing is hot, but nah. !ts kind ol
cool now bccausc wc undcrstand cach othcr lrom all thc work wcvc donc
togcthcr in thc past, so thc stull wcrc doing now is incrcdiblc. Thc stull
hcs producing is incrcdiblc. Thc rccord hc just did lor mc is callcd This !s
Ska, and its a ska rccord. You would ncvcr think that Ali would producc
a ska rccord. You just wouldnt cxpcct that.
- -
- -

Thc wholc thing camc about whcn our rccord labcl inlormcd us that Shaq
was a big lan ol our music. Vc wcrc his lavoritc cmcccs, and hc uscd to
mimic my vcrscs. So Jivc Rccords llcw us out to an rlando Magic gamc. !
dont rcally watch baskctball, so ! didnt know who hc was at thc timc. 8ut
thc othcr group mcmbcrs wcrc tclling mc all about him. Hcs a lirstround
dralt pick. So Shaq said hc had lyrics, and hc sct up somc studio timc.
CH!P FU
39
!nstcad ol crcating a ncw song, wc rcrccordcd Vhats Up oc:, which
wc had alrcady rccordcd somc timc bclorc that. Thc thing was, thc original
vcrsion had a samplc ol 8ugs 8unny in its chorus, and wc couldnt gct thc
samplc clcarcd, so wcd had to shclvc thc song. So wc dccidcd to just takc
thc samplc out ol thc song and just say thc linc oursclvcs. Vc did that and
thcn put him on thc song, and hc just took oll lrom thcrc.
- -
-
Pcoplc nccd to undcrstand thc dynamic at play hcrc. A lot ol cmcccs
always drcamcd ol bcing athlctcs. You could hand thcm a lootball or a
baskctball, and thcyll tcar it up. !ts thc samc thing with athlctcsa lot ol
thcm drcamcd ol bcing rappcrs. !ts sort ol thc way somc actors lccl about
rappcrs actingthcy dont likc it. 8ut thcn il you takc somconc likc Mos
cl, who studicd acting but chosc music . . . You cant say that hcs not a
good actor just bccausc hcs also a rappcr. You dont always know thc path
that somc ol thcsc pcoplc took to gct whcrc thcy arc. Having said that, !
can undcrstand why somc cmcccs lccl that way toward athlctcs and actors
rhyming, bccausc thcy havcnt paid thcir ducs, thcy havcnt bccn out thcrc
battlc rhyming and chcwing othcr cmcccs up. Athlctcs and actors who havc
moncy can just jump right in and rccord thcir own albums without doing
thosc things. 8ut you cant rcally say that somc ol thcsc guys didnt alrcady
havc that drcam ol bcing an cmccc. Look at Ncllyil hc wasnt making
music, hcd bc playing lootball. Vhcn you scc him on thosc MT\ lootball
spccials, hcs tcaring it up out thcrc. And thats what hc did in high school.
- - -
-
- -
!t was crazy to havc all thosc guys in onc room. Vc all kncw wc wcrc thcrc
lor onc thing, and that was to makc surc this closing show was a good onc.
Thcrc wcrc no cgos. vcryonc got along with cvcryonc clsc. Vc practiccd
lor hours to gct thc show thc way it was. ! think, lor mc, that was onc ol thc
bcst days lor hiphop. Thcrc wcrc ccrtain pcoplc ! had ncvcr mct, and to bc
ablc to bc around thcm and to crcatc with thcm was amazing. To bc ablc to
crcatc with l irty 8astard and Mcthod Man and thc cntirc VuTang
Clan, as wcll as MC Lytc, and YoYo, and CL Smooth, and asFX,
and Guru . . . !t was just incrcdiblc.
CHAPTR F!\
40
- - - -
- -
-
! dont think it was a compctitivc thing lor anybody that day. ! think that
day it was morc about knowing that wc wcrc choscn to do thc show. !
mcan, out ol all thc groups in hiphop, thcy chosc Naughty by Naturc,
thcy chosc asFX, thcy chosc thc FuSchnickcns. Thcy chosc thc
groups at thc timc that wcrc making noisc and had pcoplc lollowing thcm.
!t madc mc lccl good to know that somconc said, Yo, you gotta add thc
FuSchnickcns to that rostcr.
- - -
-
Mc, pcrsonally, ! was thc guy who kind ol staycd in thc booth. ! mainly
just wrotc and rccordcd. Thc only othcr thing that rcally stands out was
whcn wc wcnt ovcrscas to othcr countrics and thc audicnccs wcrc rcciting
my vcrscs word lor word. !t was crazy to go to placcs likc Francc or Japan
and scc pcoplc kicking my vcrscs. ! was likc, This is crazy that thcy bought
thc album and actually practiccd how to kick thc vcrscs. Thc crcativc sidc
ol cvcrything was crazy, too, thc way wc wcnt into thc studio and rcccivcd
bcats lrom Ali, and rcccivcd bcats lrom iamond , and KCut, and cv
crybody clsc. Thosc produccrs camc and droppcd thcir bcats and thcy ncvcr
lclt thc studio. !ts not likc it is today whcrc you purchasc a bcat lrom a
produccr and its all about him gctting his moncy. 8ack thcn thc produccrs
sat thcrc and ovcrsaw cvcrything to makc surc that thc song was hotbc
causc his namc was on it also. ! cnjoycd working with thc produccrs. Thc
produccr would givc you a barc track, and hcd makc surc you put thc song
togcthcr corrcctly. Thcn hc would add horns or maybc a hardcr snarc, you
know what ! mcan:
- - - -

Morc than anything clsc, Jivc Rccords wantcd thc FuSchnickcns to bc
anothcr J Jazzy Jcll and thc Frcsh Princc. ! undcrstand whcrc thcy wcrc
coming lrom, but ! couldnt do thosc kinds ol things. Music was changing,
and pcoplc wcrc still gravitating toward us altcr 8rcakdown. That was
thc dircction ! wantcd to scc thc group go, bccausc no onc cxpcctcd us to
comc up with a song likc 8rcakdown. ! lclt likc wc nccdcd to continuc to
CH!P FU
41
think outsidc thc box. ! thought wc nccdcd to think biggcr. Vc had just
donc thc rccord with Shaq, and wc had to comc with morc hot shit. And
Jivc was trying to makc us go in a dircction that wc wcrc not happy with.
!n ordcr lor us to gct out ol our contract, wc had to brcak up as a group. So
wc brokc up, and wc kind ol rcalizcd that thc wholc FuSchnickcns thing
was not going to work with us coming back togcthcr bccausc wc all had
crcativc dillcrcnccs. ! rcally wantcd thc group to gct into a crcativc zonc
bclorc anything clsc, and takc thc timc to listcn to what was out thcrc lirst
bclorc trying to put out a rccord just to bc in thc markctplacc. !t didnt
makc any scnsc. Just making a rccord likc that probably would havc bccn a
wastc ol timc. So ! kind ol madc up my mind that ! would just go to school
and do what ! had to do until thc contractual issucs sort ol dicd down. !
just waitcd it out. Vhcn ! linally got thc papcrwork saying ! was out ol thc
contract, which was ycars latcr, ! startcd putting out my own music. 8ut !
was always rccording, cvcn whcn no onc was hcaring it.
-
-
Thc crazicst thing was that Nas pcoplc callcd mc and ! hung up thc phonc
on thcm. Twicc. Thcy said, This is such and such calling lrom !ll Vill
Rccords, and wc want you to bc on this Nas rcmix. ! havc lricnds who do
a lot ol phonc pranks, and ! was likc, Stop mcssing around and hung up
thc phonc. Thcn whcn ! chcckcd my cmail, ! had a couplc ol mcssagcs
lrom thc samc pcoplc. Thcy wcrc likc, Just lay your vcrsc and scnd it in. !
laid thc vcrsc on Friday, and on Monday it was all ovcr thc !ntcrnct. Pcoplc
wcrc likc, ang, Chip torc thc song down, or whatcvcr. And ! thought,
man, ! thought thcy wcrc playing. Thats whcn it hit mc that it was a rcal
song. Vhcn thcy scnt mc thc bcat, it didnt havc Nas on it. ! was likc, !
nccd to do my vcrsc. You ncvcr know, it might bc rcal, and ! dont want
to miss out.
- - -
-
Thc dillcrcncc lor mc is that ! can go into thc booth and try a wholc bunch
ol things without mcssing anything up. 8ack whcn wc did cvcrything on
tapc, that was a lot hardcr. !l you mcsscd up, or you kcpt mcssing up, youd
havc to cut thc tapc. Vhcn it camc to drops, youd havc to havc two pcoplc
at thc board to push buttons. 8ut today, cvcrything is digital. !ts morc
CHAPTR F!\
42
lun lor mc bccausc cvcrything ! uscd to do in thc past, ! can apply to now
and its bcttcr. Vhcn ! stcp in thc rccording booth now, !m stcpping into
thc booth in my housc. Thcn ! can rccord what ! want and just cmail it
to thc produccr and hc can say, Just changc this up, or whatcvcr. ! rcally
likc that. 8ut what ! dont likc is thc approach that othcr pcoplc arc taking.
Thcyrc likc, !m gonna go into thc booth and just kick a bunch ol non
scnsc and put it out thcrc. ! mcan, its good that you can put your music
out thcrc with no middlc man, but just makc surc that what yourc putting
out thcrc is palatablc. You cant just say yourc going to do somc hiphop,
and thcn go and do somc loolishncss.

! had an idca whcn Pctc Rock, myscll, and Rcncc Nculvillc lrom Zhanc
did that song lor his album callcd Rcady li Var. Thats a big rcggac song,
hugc ovcrscas. So ! said, Vhy dont wc gct togcthcr and do a collcctivc
thing: !t was going to bc callcd Junglc Rock !ntcrnational. Thc idca was
that Pctc Rock could dccjay, and Rcncc could sing, and !d just wild out,
basically. Vc thought about it, but wc ultimatcly lclt it alonc. So ! thought,
!ll just put out a bunch ol rccords undcr thc namc Junglc Rock Jr., which
is ultimatcly thc othcr sidc ol mc with thc singing ol thc rcggac and all thc
othcr stull that ! was not ablc to do on thc FuSchnickcn albums. And !m
happy that pcoplc arc gravitating to it. Now thcy know what to cxpcct lrom
mc. Thcyrc likc, Vcll, ! know Chip is crazy is with thc rhymcs, but hc
also docs this rcggac shit. Vhats ncxt lrom him: ! likc that its working
bccausc it kccps pcoplc in tunc to what !m doing.
- -- -
- - - --
- - --
Thc main thing is that ! ncvcr stoppcd writing ncw matcrial. ! always
comparcd my music to whats out thcrc. ! was rcal hard on myscll. !l it
soundcd likc it couldnt comparc or it couldnt compctc in thc markctplacc,
! didnt put it out thcrc. 8ut thcn it got to a point whcrc ! startcd hcaring
ccrtain cmcccs stcp thcir gamc up. !vc got to givc crcdit to mincm, !vc
got to givc it to Roycc thc 5'9 . . . !vc got to givc it to a lot ol cmcccs. ! can
actually say that cmcccs likc that brought mc back to thc mic. Listcning to
thcm and gctting scrious about my cralt, ! just stay in thc booth. No onc
kncw that ! did, thc only pcrson who kncw ! was rccording all this stull was
CH!P FU
43
Ali. ! did thc majority ol my rccordings at his housc. ! lcarncd all thc Pro
Tools and stull lrom him, and it was ovcr.
- - - - -

Hiphop in thc way that wc kncw it is dcad, and thats undcrstandablc. Thc
statc ol hiphop is going through its changcs. o ! likc it: Vcll, ! rcspcct
it. ! rcspcct thc lact that guys arc gctting thcir moncy. ! dont rcspcct what
thcyrc trying to push oll on thc kids, bccausc ! havc a child ol my own.
Thcrc arc ccrtain cmcccs in thc gamc that ! do rcspcct, bccausc thcyrc
scrious about thcir cralt and thcyrc trying to think outsidc thc box. Thcn
thcrc arc othcr cmcccs that ! dont rcspcct. At this particular point in timc,
!m just going to watch thc gamc. !m not going to dictatc what pcoplc arc
going to likc or thcyrc not going to likc. This is whcrc hiphop is right
now, and !vc got to rcspcct that. ! mcan, its going to makc mc work cvcn
hardcr, but trust mc, !vc got somcthing lor thc gamc.

1. - (1992) |as FuSchnickcns|

2. - (1994) |as FuSchnickcns|
3. - - (1995) |as FuSchnickcns|
4. (2010)
44

L
ong !sland nativc Chuck lormcd thc musical group Spcctrum
City in thc carly 1980s. Altcr hcaring a couplc ol thc groups un
dcrground singlcs, notcd produccr and cl Jam coloundcr Rick
Rubin convinccd thcm to sign to thc labcl in 1986. Chuck and company
thcn rccruitcd Flavor Flav and Tcrminator X to thc group and rcchristcncd
thc collcctivc Public ncmy. Thc lollowing ycar thc group rclcascd thcir
groundbrcaking dcbut album - . Thc album lcaturcd
innovativc production lrom inhousc produccrs thc 8omb Squad, as wcll as
potcnt political commcntary lrom Chuck . Today thc album is hailcd as a
bonalidc classic and is considcrcd onc ol thc most inllucntial albums in thc
history ol hiphop. !t has bccn namcd onc ol thc top 100 hiphop albums
by and onc ol thc 500 grcatcst albums cvcr rccordcd (in any
gcnrc) by . !ntcrcstingly, Public ncmys sccond album, 1988s
- - - , would also bc considcrcd a
scminal album and would oncc again makc both prcstigious lists. -
was also namcd Album ol thc Ycar by , making
it thc lirst hiphop album to rcccivc this honor lrom a prcdominantly rock
publication.
!n 1990, Public ncmy rclcascd and sold morc
than a million copics ol thc album thc lirst wcck. Thc album, which dis
playcd a signilicant maturation lrom its prcdcccssors, would ultimatcly bc
namcd (oncc again) to both thc and lists ol thc grcatcst
albums cvcr rccordcd. !t has also bccn choscn by thc Library ol Congrcss

CHUCK
45
lor inclusion to thc National Rccording Rcgistry. Thc group continucd
thcir winning ways in 1991 with thcir lourth album, -
- . This timc out, howcvcr, thc group changcd thcir mu
sical dircction with an album produccd by ncwcomcrs thc !mpcrial Grand
Ministcrs ol Funk. n thc strcngth ol succcsslul singlcs likc Cant Truss
!t, Shut m own, and a rcmix ol 8ring thc Noisc (with rockcrs
Anthrax), thc album oncc again wcnt platinum.
Thc prolilic Public ncmy havc continucd to crank out onc innovativc
album altcr anothcr, with no two projccts sounding alikc. Thcir subscqucnt
rclcascs includc - ---, , and . !n 2004,
rankcd Public ncmy at numbcr 44 on thcir list ol thc 100
Grcatcst Artists ol AllTimc. Public ncmy is rccognizcd today as onc
ol thc lorcmost groups ol thc goldcn cra ol hiphop. Having inllucnccd
cvcryonc lrom !cc Cubc to !mmortal Tcchniquc, thc group is signilicant
bccausc it pavcd thc way lor political, social, and culturally conscious hip
hop. Thc group also brokc down numcrous barricrs and wcrc rccognizcd in
a way that no hiphop act bclorc thcm had bccn.
!n addition to his work with Public ncmy, Chuck has rclcascd two
solo albums, - and
. !n 2000, Chuck , Prolcssor Grill, and Kylc Jason combincd
lorccs to cstablish thc rock/rap hybrid group Conlrontation Camp.
Chuck is onc ol thc grcatcst and most accomplishcd cmcccs cvcr to
rock a microphonc. His importancc to hiphop cannot bc ovcrstatcd. Quitc
simply, thc man is a living lcgcnd.
-
!ts a culturc ol crcativity, spawncd by black pcoplc who havc always bccn
crcativc lor various rcasons, cspccially in this hcmisphcrc. !t was our cx
prcssion and it has comc down through all lorms ol art, music, lashion,
and stylc, but it has bccn thc tcrm ol crcativity lor thc last 40 ycars. Vcvc
always bccn a crcativc pcoplc, so hiphop docsnt bcgin and cnd with our
cxistcncc. !ts a tcrm lor thc lattcr day originality and crcativity.
- -
- - --
- -
! grcw up in a timc whcn songs had to comc lrom somcthing to mcan
somcthing. Vhcn ! grcw up with Jamcs 8rown and 8ob ylan and thc
CHAPTR S!X
46
8catlcs on thc othcr cnds ol things, a song actually had to do morc bccausc
it was an audiblc ollcring and a world ol vcry littlc visuals. You couldnt
takc visual componcnts ol art around with you as much, il at all. So a song
had to somcthing to you, whcthcr you had a transistor radio or a
Valkman or a box, words had to do that much morc.
- - - -
-
!n rap it startcd out with pcoplc likc Mcllc Mcl, Kool Moc cc, Run
MC, ric 8. & Rakim, KRSnc . . . thc lcgcnds. Thcn latcr on thc
contcmporarics wcrc !cc Cubc and 8ig addy Kanc. And thcrc wcrc so
many othcrs, but that kind ol startcd it oll right thcrc. Jamcs 8rown was
an inllucncc both musically and lyrically. Sly and thc Family Stonc, Arctha
Franklin, Gladys Knight.
- -

Vc both camc lrom thc samc homctown. Vc wantcd to show pcoplc that
black pcoplc arc just as divcrsc as anyonc clsc, and that happcncd to bc a
shock to whitc pcoplc. |Laughs.| 8ut ! dont scc, whcn pcoplc start looking
at cach othcr as human bcings, why you would havc to cxplain why two
dillcrcnt pcrsonalitics happcn to bc lricnds. Flavor Flav and ! arc amongst
a bunch ol black mcn who arc dillcrcnt and divcrsc. A lot ol timcs pcoplc
kind ol hold it to Flavs and my rclationship, but thcrc arc a lot ol pcoplc
who arc in that mix, as wcll.
-- -

!n a black houschold you could havc somcbody whos a lawycr and thcn
somconc whos bccn convictcd living undcr thc samc rool. |Laughs again.|
So ! think it works wcll togcthcr bccausc wc both know whcrc wc comc
lrom and who wc arc.
-
Rick Rubin tricd to gct mc to rccord lor his ncw labcl lor about a ycar. And
thcn wc lound a way to bring cvcrybody in, as opposcd to my coming in
alonc as a solo rappcr with cl Jam. Thats how wc camc up with
- , it was an onslaught ol many divcrsc charactcrs cmbcddcd in
CHUCK
47
thc rcalm ol paying homagc to hiphop. 8clorc ! bccamc a prolcssional, wc
wcrc dclinitcly public scrvants to a wholc bunch ol aspccts ol hiphop music.
- - - - -
- -
Vcll, ! wasnt so much taking lvis to task as ! was thc wholc Amcricaniza
tion ol rock and roll just bcing cxclusivcly whitc Amcrican and dominant.
And its thc samc thing with mincm. ! havc rcspcct lor mincm as an
artist, and ! havc rcspcct lor mincm in rcgards to what hc had to study to
comc in, bccausc hcs a human bcing. 8ut thcn whcn thc masscs ol pcoplc
conncct somcbodys skin color to bcing dominant at somcthing in Amcrica
by Amcrican rulcs, thcn thats somcthing you should always attack. No ol
lcnsc to lvis and mincm, two icons whosc namcs bcgin with .
--
- - - - -
- ---
-- -
No, bccausc ! undcrstood thc pcoplc whcrc ! comc lrom, and that basically
thc music was going to comc through a company, and its going to rcach
out across Amcrica. Thank God lor - lor rcaching out across
Amcrica and giving cxposurc to rap music. And ! know that il ! did a conccrt
lor black lolks, it would bc lor two dollars or it would bc lor lrcc, and cvcry
body would show up. 8ut you know, oncc you start gctting into thc rcalm ol
charging pcoplc this and charging pcoplc that, it cntcrs thc rcalm ol busincss.
Somctimcs pcoplc bug mc out. Thcy say things likc, Yo, you wcnt to !owa.
Thcrc arc a lot ol whitc pcoplc thcrc. And ! say, Ycah, but il ! was playing
in Nigcria, thcrc would bc a lot ol Nigcrians thcrc. |Chucklcs.| So thcrc you
havc it. ! playcd in lront ol 50,000 black pcoplc in thc middlc ol Ghana. You
know, thc mcssagc is going to rcach whcrcvcr. !l wcrc going to bc anywhcrc,
its bccausc its rcachcd that dcmographic whcrcvcr its at.
- - -- - -
- - - -
Thats somcthing wc sct out to do. 8ut, you know, thcrc arc a lot ol
pcoplc in rap music and hiphop that dont undcrstand that. 8ut ! lclt
that in hiphop and black music wc arc always trying to plcasc. And wc
wcrc likc, no, this is how wc arc, and wcrc going to hold to that and ncvcr
CHAPTR S!X
48
rcpcat oursclvcs twicc. You havc to stand up lor somcthing or youll lall
lor anything.
- - -
- - -
- - -
!ts thcir right to actually havc a dillcring point ol vicw, but you havc to call
mc on it lirst il yourc going to usc my voicc.
- - -
! thought nothing ol it. My lcllow songwritcrs kcpt pulling my coattails.
Yo, man, this is what is bcing donc hcrc. This is who thcsc pcoplc arc,
and wc nccd to also gct paid as your lcllow songwritcrs. |Laughs.| ! tricd
to gct thcm to just lorgct it, but . . . As you know, whcn you collaboratc
with pcoplc its not always that casy. So it was rcally a thing ol big busi
ncss. !t was a cl Jam and 8MG discussion that lcd to |thc lawsuit|. !ts
unlortunatc bccausc ! thought 8iggic was thc typc ol artistas was J
Prcmicr, who produccd thc songwho was ablc to cut across and just
bc ablc to makc a dillcrcncc. 8ut, you know, thc companics to which all
ol thcsc things arc conncctcd can makc pcoplc say, kay, you guys arc
okay. How about mc: And thcn ! had to look at it as, wcll, you uscd it
lor this typc ol song, you should havc callcd mc. 8ut in all duc rcspcct,
Pully callcd mc whcn hc was gctting involvcd with anothcr Public ncmy
rccord |lor his song P.. 2000|. Hc showcd thc utmost rcspcct by call
ing mc, and ! rcspcctcd that, and ! rcspcct him to this day lor a lot ol thc
things hcs donc.
- - - -
--- - -- - -
- - -
Thcrcs a big world out thcrc, and a lot ol things arc happcning around thc
world. Maybc thc Unitcd Statcs sccms to bc cxpcricncing a lull, but ! think
whcn it comcs down to thc basics ol what rap music and hiphop is about,
othcr placcs adhcrc to thcm a littlc bit bcttcr. Youvc gotta pay attcntion
to whats going on around thc planct, as opposcd to this onc littlc spot.
Things movc, thc world movcs, and culturc movcs, too. Thcrcs no givcn
rcason why thc Unitcd Statcs should lcad thc world in culturc. Thats not
supposcd to bc an automatic givcn.
CHUCK
49
- - -
--
-- -
- -
-- - -
! dont know. ! think thc Unitcd Statcs has things that comc and go. Politi
cal rccords arc thc ragc in othcr parts ol thc world. Somctimcs youvc got
to lcavc your homc to ligurc out whats going on somcwhcrc clsc. Look at
8razil, as much party and dancc music as thcyvc got going on, thcyvc got
a lot ol political issucs that nccd to bc addrcsscd, and thcy do it.
- -- - -
- - -
-- - - - ---
Youvc only got X amount ol timc in your lilc to makc statcmcnts, and
timing is cvcrything. And cvcn whcn you do somcthing likc that, you cant
takc crcdit lor it, you havc to thank thc pcoplc and circumstanccs which
madc it possiblc lor you to do that. You cant cvcr rcally gct lull ol yourscll.
- - - -- -
-
-
Thc song camc about bccausc ! saw thc trcatmcnt ol thc pcoplc along thc
Tcxas, Ncw Mcxico, Arizona, and Calilornia bordcrs. Vhat ! saw was a
growing schism ol racist ovcrtoncs just to gct pcoplc votcd in and out ol
ollicc. And a lot ol moncy that this nation claims its short ol has bccn put
into this wall and this cmphasis on immigration, and at thc cnd ol thc day
its just lor somcbodys ollicc scat or whatcvcr so thcy can just sit and gougc
thcmsclvcs. Thats what madc mc writc thc song.
- -
!d likc to scc Public ncmy rccognizcd as thc Rolling Stoncs ol rap, just
likc RunMC is rccognizcd as thc 8catlcs ol rap. !d likc rap music to bc
lookcd at as bcing as lcgitimatc as rock and roll.

1. - (1987) |as Public ncmy|

2. - - - (1988) |as Public ncmy|
CHAPTR S!X
50
3. (1990) |as Public ncmy|
4. - - (1991) |as Public ncmy|
5. - --- (1992) |as Public ncmy|
6. - -- (1994) |as Public ncmy|
7. - (1996)
8. (1998) |as Public ncmy|
9. - - (1999) |as Public ncmy|
10. - - (2000) |as Conlronta
tion Camp|
11. - (2001) |as Public ncmy|
12. (2002) |as Public ncmy|
13. (2002) |as Public ncmy|
14. (2005) |as Public ncmy|
15. - (2005) |as Public ncmy|
16. (2006) |as Public ncmy| |w/ Paris|
17. (2006) |as Public ncmy|
18. -- (2007) |as
Public ncmy|
19. - - (2007) |as Public ncmy|
20. (2008) |as Public ncmy| |w/ Paris|
21. (2010)
51

M
ichacl Circlli discovcrcd hiphop at a young agc whilc growing
up in Providcncc, Rhodc !sland. Hc latcr attcndcd collcgc at
thc Univcrsity ol \crmont. uring a hiatus lrom collcgc, Circ
lli voluntccrcd lor a ycar and a hall at a hallway housc in ngland. Hc thcn
spcnt anothcr two ycars living in a Tibctan 8uddhist colony. Hc also livcd
lor scvcral months at thc lamcd Frcnch monastcry ol \ictnamcsc monk
Thich Nhat Hanh in Plum \illagc. Circlli thcn rcturncd to thc Statcs and
cnrollcd in collcgc at San Francisco Statc. Hc livcd in akland, Calilornia
lor six ycars, whcrc hc bccamc hcavily immcrscd in thc local slam poctry
sccnc. As a rookic, Circlli placcd lilth at thc National Poctry Slam !ndi
vidual Finals. Circlli would ultimatcly scrvc two ycars on thc akland slam
poctry tcam, and anothcr two ycars on thc Long 8cach, Calilornia poctry
tcam. !n 2001, hc bccamc thc lirst pcrson cvcr to makc all thrcc 8ay Arca
tcamsakland, San Francisco, and 8crkclcyin a singlc ycar. !n 2004,
hc madc a mcmorablc appcarancc on H8s -- - --
, pcrlorming his popular pocm A Lovc Lcttcr to Kclis.
That samc ycar saw thc rclcasc ol thc book
---, which hc coauthorcd with Allan Lawrcncc Sitomcr. Thc tomc
onc ol thc lirst to ollcr a high school curriculum which comparcd thc
works ol classic pocts to contcmporary cmcccswas a hugc hit and cvcn
gaincd thc attcntion ol Kanyc Vcst, who championcd thc book. Circlli has
sincc rclocatcd to Ncw York City, whcrc hc pursucd his MFA in poctry
at thc Ncw School. Altcr graduating, hc bccamc thc cxccutivc dircctor at

CHAPTR S\N
52
Urban Vord, an organization which prcscnts litcrary arts cducation and
youth dcvclopmcnt programs in thc arcas ol crcativc writing, journalism,
collcgc prcp, and hiphop. !n 2008, Circlli rclcascd his lirst collcction ol
hiphopthcmcd poctry, - -, to critical acclaim.
A scllproclaimcd hiphop hcad, Circlli says hc pcnncd thc book with thc
intcntion ol introducing hiphop into thc acadcmic poctry arcna.
-
As a poct, hiphop is languagc, is swaggcr, stylc, youthlulncss, thc cvolu
tion ol litcraturc. As a hiphop hcad, it is cncrgy, culturc, it is minc and it is
not minc. As an cducator, hiphop is a bridgc, a contincnt, a way lor us to
all cngagc, rcllcct, and rcspcct a culturc, hopclully in an authcntic way that
will bc dillcrcnt lor cach pcrson il thcy rctain accountability to thcmsclvcs
and to hiphop.
-
My carlicst rcminisccnccs ol hiphop arc living in Providcncc. ! kind ol
grcw up with hiphop. !t was a music that was acccptcd in my ncighbor
hood, and it was a music and culturc that was kind ol brcathing itscll into
thc city at that timc. 8rcakdancing was vcry popular. This was in thc cight
ics, and as a child, ! was brcakdancing. ! think my lirst hiphop casscttc
was RunMCs - in 1986. ! think ! got that in my Christmas
stocking, which was intcrcsting. ! had two lathcrs, bccausc my parcnts
divorccd whcn ! was thrcc or lour ycars old. My mothcr was rcmarricd
whcn ! was livc, so ! was raiscd by my mom and my stcpdad, who was
also !talianAmcrican. Thcn ! still had my rcal lathcrs sidc ol thc lamily,
which was an old !talian lamily in Providcncc. My rcal lathcr was kind ol
a hustlcr. Hc had a vcry unscrupulous lilcstylc. Hc ncvcr rcally had a job.
So ! had thc bluc collar upbringing in my homc, and thcn ! had my lathcr
who was gctting mc thc Scrgio \alcntc pinstripcd jcans, thc Pro Kcds with
thc lat shoclaccs, and thc namc bucklcs. Hc would gct linolcum lrom thc
linolcum shop around thc corncr lrom his housc lor mc to brcakdancc on
with my lricnds. 8ut it was intcrcsting bccausc my parcntsmy mom and
my stcpdadput RunMCs - in my stocking bccausc thcy
kncw ! likcd rap music. So ! gucss it was ncvcr a thrcatcning music or cul
turc to my lamily, and ! think it wasand issccn as a thrcatcning kind
ol movcmcnt or culturc to a lot ol suburban whitc lolks bccausc ol all thc
racism in Amcrican culturc. So thosc arc my carlicst mcmorics.
M!CHAL C!RLL!
53
Thcn, whcn ! got into high school, ! got into altcrnativc music likc
thc Smiths and thc Curc. ! wcnt to an allboys Catholic school, and ! was
a jock, ! playcd icc hockcy. ! kind ol had a hiatus lrom hiphop, but luckily
lound my way back to it around 92 and 93, which was kind ol thc goldcn
cra ol thc music. 8y thc timc ! wcnt to collcgc ! was lully immcrscd as a
hiphop hcad all ovcr again. !t was intcrcsting, bccausc ! wcnt to thc Uni
vcrsity ol \crmont, whcrc cvcryonc was into Phish and thc Gratclul cad,
and ! had lound my lovc lor hiphop again. This was around thc timc that
- - by c La Soul camc out, and that is, to this day, my lavoritc
hiphop album ol all timc. ! had a littlc bit ol a hiatus, but hiphop was
always in my bloodstrcam. As ! dcvclopcd into a writcr and a poct, ! was
ablc to apprcciatc hiphop in a much morc prolound way through thc lyr
ics. !vc ncvcr bccn a pcrson who is into produccrs and thc musicality ol it,
although ! do lovc good bcats and grcat music. !vc always approachcd thc
music through thc lyrical contcnt and quality. And as !vc gottcn oldcr and
my own acadcmic scnsibilitics around thc word hcightcncd, ! was ablc to
look at it in a wholc ncw way and rcally scc thc conncctions bctwccn thc
lyricality ol hiphop music and things that ! was cxcitcd about as a writcr.
As ! got into thc slam poctry sccnc, ! was actually morc inspircd by cmcccs
than ! was by pocts. As a rcsult, my poctry back thcn had a lot morc rhythm
to it. !t wasnt ovcrly rhyming, but it was rhyming. !t rcally cxcitcd mc. !
just saw hiphop as thc cvolution ol poctry and thc cvolution ol languagc.
-
! ncvcr rcally wrotc rap lyrics, to bc honcst with you. ! always had this thing
whcrc dccp down insidc, whcn you rcally lovc somcthing, you wish you
could do it . . . 8ut ! ncvcr rcally did it, or cvcn lclt likc ! rcally nccdcd to. !
gucss ! wantcd to bc a lan. ! thought about that a couplc ol ycars ago whcn
! was writing my book, and ! gucss ! just rcally likcd thc thought ol bcing
a rcal lan and not lccling likc ! havc to havc a stakc in it. ! gucss ! do havc
a stakc in hiphop culturc, morc lrom an cducational standpoint, but as lar
as actually cmcccing . . . ! just likc bcing an incrcdibly hugc lan ol cmcccs
and brcakdanccrs and gralliti artists, and kind ol just soaking thosc things
in and linding my own inspiration within thcm. !m ablc to champion it
through my poctry.
!vc hcard pcoplc rclcr to mc as a hiphop poct, which ! think is in
tcrcsting. ! dont know what a hiphop poct is, but ! dont writc pocms
CHAPTR S\N
54
that rhymc anymorc. ! dont writc bars. Vhcn you think ol hiphop, you
think ol dillcrcnt clcmcnts such as musicality and rhyming, but my poctry
docsnt rcally havc much ol that in it. ! think it dclinitcly cmbraccs thc
cncrgy ol hiphop, but ! lind it intcrcsting that a lot ol pcoplc lrom thc
acadcmic poctry community call mc a hiphop poct. ! gucss its bccausc !
writc about hiphop culturc and iconography. !n much thc samc way that
jazz iconography and culturc bccamc prcvalcnt in morc acadcmic poctry
in thc latc scvcntics and cightics, ! wantcd to includc hiphop culturc and
iconography in thc acadcmic poctry convcrsation. ! had lound whcn ! was
in grad school that anytimc you mcntioncd hiphop, it had this sort ol
ncgativc connotation to it, it was sccn as lowbrow art. Anytimc you talkcd
about spokcn word, it was sccn as lowbrow art. All thc pocts in thc MFA
program lookcd at likc it was just bad, tcrriblc poctry. Thcy
lookcd at hiphop likc it was thc banc ol litcraturc, il onc was to put it into
a litcrary contcxt. So my goal was to talk about thc complcxitics and thc
dynamics ol hiphop in a contcxt that thcy could undcrstand. ! wrotc all thc
pocms in my lirst book as 14linc quasisonncts, and thcn ! also placcd thc
ligurcs into situations that you wouldnt normally associatc with thcm. For
instancc, thc titlc ol thc book is - -. That pocm
is about ld irty 8astard going to Randazzos Clam 8ar in Shccpshcad
8ay and having dinncr with his 13 kids, and thc ruckus that happcns dur
ing that dinncr. ! would lcarn a piccc ol truth about thcsc icons and thcn
crcatc thc story around it. Talib Kwcli, ! lcarncd, had bccn cxpcllcd lrom
8rooklyn Tcch. So ! thcn wrotc a pocm about what happcncd whcn hc
got cxpcllcd.
! just kind ol llippcd thc script a littlc bit in rcgards to how wc can look
at thcsc pcoplc, and ! kind ol placcd thcm into situations that anyonc can
undcrstand. My idca was to sort ol straddlc both worlds in a lot ol ways.
Thc hiphop hcads arc obviously going to bc into it, but thc acadcmics can
also gct into it and sort ol scc that thcrcs morc to hiphop culturc than
whats hcard on thc radio.
- - - -
Again my lavoritc cmcccs arc thc oncs that havc rcally strong lyrical quali
tics. ! would say that right now my lavoritc cmccc is Lupc Fiasco bccausc
ol thc dcnsity ol his lyrics and thc poctry in his work. To mc, Lupc Fiasco
is so much morc cvolvcd lyrically than 95 pcrccnt ol thc cmcccs out thcrc.
M!CHAL C!RLL!
55
You can just takc a vcrsc and brcak it down in a million dillcrcnt ways. Hcs
using doublc and triplc cntcndrcs. Hc just rcally blows mc away. ! lind it
rcally, rcally inspiring. ! want to writc that, but ! dont want to do what hcs
doing, ! want to writc somcthing that spcaks to how talcntcd hc is.
! also lovc thc morc obvious lolks likc Talib Qwcli and Mos cl. !
lovc c La Soulcspccially Trugoy. Thcn my poctic scnsibilitics arc dil
lcrcnt. nc ol my lavoritc pocts is a guy namcd Jack Gilbcrt, who is just an
old whitc guy who writcs vcry quict pocms that arc sct in Japan or Grcccc.
Hcs kind ol a rcclusivc poct who puts out a book, and thcn docsnt put out
anything clsc lor anothcr 15 ycars. ! also lovc a lot ol contcmporary writcrs.
nc ol my lavoritc writcrs out right now is a guy namcd Tcrrancc Haycs.
! also likc a lot ol my lricndslolks who havc comc lrom, and cvolvcd
through, thc pcrlormancc spokcn word sccnc. Thcrc arc pocts likc Villic
Pcrdomo and Rachcl McKibbcns that ! likc immcnscly. ! likc to try to
lind thc balancc bctwccn rcading as much poctry as ! can and listcning to
hiphop and thc ncw voiccs that arc out. Thcrcs a guy namcd 8lu out ol
Calilornia whos rcally talcntcd. Thcn thcrc arc guys likc Valc . . . !ts in
tcrcsting to scc how ncw pcoplc arc doing it and changing it and cvolving it.
- ---
Thc way that a lot ol pocts gct involvcd in tcaching is by bcing on a stagc
somcwhcrc pcrlorming and rcciting our poctry, and thcrc was a tcachcr in
thc audicncc. And thc tcachcr says, Hcy, you should comc to my classroom
and do a poctry workshop with my studcnts. r maybc thcyrc a part ol an
organization that scnds pocts into thc classroom. Vithin thc last 10 ycars,
lolks havc rcalizcd that spokcn word artists rcach thc young pcoplc a littlc
bit casicr than thc traditional pocts, so thcrc has bccn a wholc movcmcnt
ol organizations such as Urban Vord that champion this art lorm as a way
to tcach writing and litcracy in thc classroom. So whcn ! got into thc class
roomthis whitc guy lrom Providcncc in South Ccntral, tcaching 30 kids
poctry! immcdiatcly thought ol who was thc most rcprcscntativc cmccc
lrom that gcographical arca that thcsc kids would bc into. ! had alrcady
acknowlcdgcd and rcalizcd thc poctics ol rap lyrics. Thcrc was ncvcr a dil
lcrcntiation to mc. So ! just startcd bringing lyrics to thc classroom. Thcn,
in ordcr to tcach litcrary dcviccs, ! would just pull out thc litcrary dcviccs
in thc lyrics and lct thc studcnts idcntily thcm and lind ways to lcarn thcm
and lind clcmcnts ol writing and litcracy through thosc lyrics. !l you go into
CHAPTR S\N
56
a classroom and ask studcnts who thcir lavoritc pocts arc, thcy might havc
somc answcrs. 8ut il you go in and ask who thcir lavoritc rappcr is, you
could havc thc convcrsation lor an hour. From thcrc you can cvolvc that to
thc things thcyrc talking about and thc politics that arc invcstcd in thcir
lyrics. So --- camc out ol that using hiphop in
thc classroom as a tool and as a subjcct ol its own discoursc and study, and
thcn connccting that to what thc studcnts havc to do in thc classroomthc
standardsbascd curriculum that thcy havc to lollow.
So whcn ! mct up with this tcachcran amazing tcachcrwho was
a multiplc Calilornia Tcachcr ol thc Ycar and has about lour young adult
liction books out, hc was complctcly imprcsscd with thc mcthodology
that ! was using. !m not lormally taught, ! was just kind ol going lrom
thc hcart, which is kind ol thc bcst tcaching mcthodology anyway. So
wc just startcd putting it all down. Vc tricd to lind culturally rclcvant
poctry that wc could conncct with thc hiphop lyrics. ! think il wc just
did hiphop to tcach litcrary dcviccs, it wouldnt havc as much wcight
in thc cpartmcnt ol ducation as it did whcn wc conncctcd a pocm
by Sojourncr Truth with a lyric by Talib Kwcli and thcn conncctcd that
with a litcrary dcvicc that was bcing uscd in both. Vc wcrc writing it lor
about lour or livc months, and thcn ! got into grad school and kncw that
! had a short window ol timc that ! would still bc living in L.A. So wc
crankcd it out that summcr. A small cducational publishcr callcd Milk
Mug put it out, and it bccamc a hugc hit. !t was crazy how it blcw up,
and ! was mccting tcachcrs lrom all ovcr thc country who wcrc using thc
book. !m sccing it in librarics likc my own homctown. !t was actually onc
ol thc lirst curriculums ol its kind that uscd hiphop in thc classroom.
And sincc thcn, thcrc havc bccn somc rcally grcat oncs. !t rcally brokc
ground in that way, cvcn though it was vcry conscrvativc and uscr lricndly
and vcry simplc in a lot ol ways. 8ut wc lound that that simplicity was
rcally hclplul to a lot ol tcachcrs. A lot ol thc morc politically oricntcd
stull got cut out ol thc linal dralt, which kind ol bummcd mc out a littlc
bit. 8ut at thc cnd ol thc day, it scrvcd its purposc, and ! think it opcncd
up somc doors lor othcr lolks who arc continuing to do thc work. Thcrc
wcrc hundrcds, maybc thousands, ol tcachcrs at thc timc who wcrc using
hiphop in thc class, but wc wcrc lucky cnough to bc ablc to put it into
book lorm and put it into a lormat that tcachcrs across thc country with
no hiphop background could usc and bcnclit lrom.
M!CHAL C!RLL!
57
- -- - - --
- - -
A lot ol thc carly cmcccs with thc A8 rhymc schcmcsthosc arc all con
ncctcd back to thc Romantics and all ol thc classical poctry that has comc
out ol Vcstcrn litcraturc, cvcn blank vcrsc, which is unrhymcd iambic
pcntamctcr dcrivcd back lrom Shakcspcarian poctry. ! would say that as
hiphop lyrics havc cvolvcd, it has startcd to takc ncw shapc. Now you havc
lolks likc Acsop Rock, who can do a wholc vcrsc that docsnt cvcn rcally
rhymc, but it sounds likc it rhymcs. 8ut still thc clcmcnts ol intcrnal rhymc,
thc clcmcnts ol A8C, A8C8A, all thosc dillcrcnt mctcrs arc
lound still to this day. Mcthod Man docs somc rcally cool, kind ol classic
rhymc schcmcs, whcrc hcll rhymc a couplct, thcn cnd a linc with a word,
thcn rhymc anothcr two couplcts, and thcn cnd a linc with thc C rhymc
that was two bars bclorc that. Thosc arc all lound in ld nglish poctry.
- - - - - -
- - - -
- - - --
Ycs. ! think a lot ol thcm probably do. !ts cvidcnt whcn you listcn to guys
likc Lupc or 8lack Thought. Thc Roots album titlcs arc takcn lrom books:
and - . Pushing pcn likc Chinua Achcbc
. . . Kanyc Vcst is dropping namcs ol thc Last Pocts. Nas had Abiodun
ycwolc lrom thc Last Pocts on his album. Thcyrc dclinitcly cntrcnchcd
in thcsc litcrary movcmcnts. Likc myscll, !m not so intcrcstcd with old po
ctry. |Laughs.| !ts just too antiquatcd and dry. ! can apprcciatc thc ability
to crcatc thcsc pocms with thcsc strict lorms, but ! think that cmcccs arc
doing that today, and thcyrc doing it in a languagc that ! can undcrstand.
For thcm to bc ablc to crcatc thcsc amazing vcrscs that all lollow thc samc
rhythm mctcr and rhymc schcmc is prctty much just as complicatcd as
troubadour pocts writing villancllcs and scstinas.

1. --- (2004) |w/ Allan Lawrcncc Sitomcr|

2. - - (2008)
3. - (2009)
4. (2010)
58

8
rooklynbrcd cmccc addy coloundcd thc scminal hiphop
group Stctsasonic in 1982. Thc group, which was compriscd ol mcm
bcrs addy, Princc Paul, Visc, 8C, clitc, 8obby Simmons,
and Frukwan, is signilicant bccausc it was onc ol thc lirst hiphop groups to
utilizc a livc band. Vith thcir positivc and inspirational lyrics, Stctsasonic
scrvcd as a prccursor to thc altcrnativc hiphop movcmcnt ol thc carly 1990s.
!n 1986, thc group rclcascd thcir dcbut album . Thc album rosc to
numbcr 32 on thc R&8/hiphop album chart and would latcr bc namcd as
onc ol magazincs top 100 hiphop albums ol all timc. !n 1988,
thc band rclcascd thcir sophomorc album . Thc album produccd
thrcc solid singlcs, Sally, Talkin All That Jazz, and Float n and rc
ccivcd critical acclaim. (Thc album would latcr bc rcrclcascd in 2001 with
thrcc bonus tracks.) !n 1991, thc group rclcascd thcir third album,
-, which oncc again rcccivcd critical praisc.
Altcr thc rclcasc ol -, thc group dccidcd to takc
timc oll to work on othcr projccts. Princc Paul would ultimatcly bccomc
onc ol thc most accomplishcd produccrs in hiphop, and hc and Frukwan
wcnt on to bccomc a part ol thc horrorcorc group Gravcdiggaz. !n 1993,
addy rclcascd his solo dcbut
on !sland/Polygram Rccords. Thc album spawncd thc succcsslul singlc
8rooklyn 8ouncc, and kcpt addy in thc public cyc.
addy has sincc cnjoycd a prolilic carccr bchind thc mixing boards,
producing and rcmixing songs by artists such as Mary J. 8ligc, 8ig addy

AY
59
Kanc, Rcd Hot Chili Pcppcrs, Quccn Latilah, Lil Kim, Jcllrcy sbornc,
and thc 852s. !n addition, hc workcd with Pull addy and thc Notori
ous 8.!.G. to lorm thc group Junior Malia. addy spcnt lour ycars as
a Scnior ircctor lor MCA Rccords. Hc thcn wcnt on to work lor Mo
town Rccords, and latcr as an A&R ircctor lor Kcdar Rccords. !n 2008,
addy and thc mcmbcrs ol Stctsasonic rcunitcd lor scvcral conccrt datcs
and thcrc has sincc bccn talk ol a ncw album.
-
clinitcly cxprcssion, cxprcssion ol urban youth that startcd in thc scv
cntics, and musically born out ol thc bowcls ol disco. Thats somcthing
that most pcoplc dont say, but its thc truth. !n most cascs, disco is thc
mothcr ol hiphop. ! always say thcrc wcrc two discos: thc disco ol John
Travolta and thosc guys, and thcn thcrcs thc disco that wc listcncd to in
Alabama Park and ast Ncw York and 8rooklyn. !m talking about stull
likc C.J. & Company and First Choiccthc lunky stull that wc startcd
thc brcakbcats with, and thcn wc cxpandcd lrom thcrc. Hiphop is stylc
and cxprcssion, and it dclinitcly comcs out ol thc 8ronx, which was
pronc to violcncc. Thcy wcrc tircd ol sccing violcncc, so thcy said, Hcy,
wcrc going to dancc against cach othcr . . . Hcy, lcts go out and paint
thcsc trains. Lcts pick up thcsc mics, lcts lcarn how to scratch. Grand
Vizzard Thcodorc crcatcd thc scratch, but altcr that wc lcarncd how to
scratch and cut. !t was a way to gct rid ol all thc bad things wc had bccn
sccing, which is a big contrast to what wc havc now, today you havc guys
who think thcrcs somc lallacy ol strcct crcdibility and that its all about
bcing tough. Thats cxactly thc oppositc ol thc roots ol hiphop. Vc had
alrcady bccn tough, and tough gcts you killcd. This was a way to gct away
lrom that and do somcthing dillcrcnt.

Probably about 1980. ! hcard it lirst in 1979 on what was callcd an up
town tapc, which was lrom Grandmastcr Flash and thc Furious Fivc.
This was actually a tapc that wasnt pcrlormcd in a club. !t was actually
pcrlormcd in Flashs bcdroom, but all livc cmcccs wcrc on thc mic. Vc
uscd to always lovc thosc tapcs, and thcy wcrc rcally clcar. ! didnt undcr
stand what ! was listcning to, it was poctry! undcrstood thatbut it
was in rhythm to bcats. ! thought, ! wanna do that! And that was whcn
! startcd my journcy.
CHAPTR !GHT
60
- - - -- --

Thcrc wcrc littlc or no rccords. !n thc bcginning, making rccords was wack.
You know, that was actually rccording what you did. Vc uscd to comc out
and plug into strcct lamps and pcrlorm in thc strcct cvcry night. !t was
about bcing lrcsh cvcry night. A lot ol thc music was uptown, and it hadnt
rcally shiltcd down to 8rooklyn yct. !t was undcrground. !t was a bunch ol
young guys likc mc who wcrc undcragc trying to sncak into clubs. This was
a ncw sound. Js playcd rccords with thc labcls whitcd out so you didnt
rcally know what thc rccords wcrc. vcryonc was scarching lor brcakbcats,
cvcn il you wcrc just a lan. You tricd to ligurc out what rccords wcrc Kccp
Your istancc or 8ig 8cat by 8illy Squirc. !t was a rcally cxciting timc.
! think onc ol thc most notablc things was that pcoplc didnt look at this
as lcaving thcir rcgular lilc to thc sidc, thcy just lookcd at hiphop as somc
thing that wc did. !ts vcry intcrcsting. ! think ol atarock saying a rhymc
that hc uscd to havc, hcd say, Cant scc Kool Hcrc/cant go to work/cant
hang out with thc lcllas so you got a sad smirk . . . Thc most important
thing is that whcn you hcard a lot ol thosc rhymcs, youd hcar pcoplc talk
ing about going to work. !t was kind ol an cxtcnsion ol thc sandboxcs, il !
scc it corrcctly. vcryoncs minds wcrc not locuscd on making millions ol
dollars. !t was just wcrc gonna gct prctty good with this, and just do what
wc can with this cralt.
- --

Vc wcrc just likc, Vhat thc hcck is a rccord: !l wc put this on a rccord,
wcrc wack! 8ccausc nowaltcr cvcryoncs got rccordsyou hcar thc
samc routincs ovcr and ovcr again. vcn Flash and thcmand ! lovc
thcmcaught a lot ol strcct llack bccausc thosc lirst rccords thcy put out
on njoy Rccords wcrc just stull thcy uscd to say at partics. Flash and thcm
wcrc thc bcst and thc worst in all arcas . . . ! mcan, you can hcar Mcllc Mcl
saying thc samc rhymc on thrcc dillcrcnt rccords. And thats what wc wcrc
all alraid olthat wc would wind up rcpcating all that stull . . . For Stct
sasonic, it wasnt until wc hcard thc Fcarlcss Four do !ts Magic that wc
rcalizcd that thcrc was a way to makc rccords and not bc wack. Vcll, it was
bctwccn thc Fcarlcss Four and thc Trcachcrous Thrcc, bccausc Trcachcr
ous Thrcc had thc rccord thing down pat.
AY
61
--
Mr. Magic and V8LS wcrc running a citywidc contcst, so wc cntcrcd thc
contcst and bcat cvcrybody. Vc actually won lirst, sccond, and third prizc.
Vhat ! mcan by this is, lirst, sccond, and third prizc wcrc all rccord dcals,
and all thrcc ol thosc labcls wantcd to sign us. Vc chosc Tommy 8oy Rc
cords, which was actually thc sccond placc prizc. Sugar Hill Rccords was
lirst prizc, and Pop Art Rccords was third prizc. Vc dccidcd to go with
Tommy 8oy bccausc Alrika 8ambaataa was with Tommy 8oy.

-
Absolutcly not. ! mcan, wc wantcd to bc national and intcrnational voiccs,
truc. 8ut in tcrms ol thc magnitudc its achicvcd, nonc ol us could havc
sccn that.
-- -
- - - -
- -
! think its good and bad. Thc onc thing ! do say whcn it comcs down to
thc ad world is that ! would rathcr scc JayZ in an HP commcrcial than
somc wack rappcr rapping about Kool Aid. And ! dont agrcc with pcoplc
who arc not lrom thc cralt doing it. ! mcan, il ! was going to go out and
makc a baskctball commcrcial, !d havc to go out and gct somconc who
was at lcast as good as somconc in thc Ruckcr Lcaguc. !l ! had a choicc
!d grab Michacl Jordan or Kobc 8ryant, bccausc its baskctball and that is
thcir cralt. Vhat ! dont likc is to scc pcoplc actually disrcspcct thc cralt by
gctting thc guy lrom thc mailroom to do a rap.
- - - -
-- - -

! dont likc it, but hcrcs onc ol thc lcssons ! lcarncd lrom clitc coming up.
! just wasnt smart cnough to not hatc on pcoplc and not to bc cgotistical,
and clitc would always calm mc down. Vc lormcd Stctsasonic togcthcr,
and without him, Stctsasonic just ncvcr would havc gonc on to bccomc
a rcal group . . . ! just would havc bccn a hothcad and madc cvcrything
cxplodc. Thc onc thing that clitc always said to mc whcncvcr ! would
complain about cats is, o it bcttcr, man. Vhy arc you complaining about
CHAPTR !GHT
62
thcm: Just do it bcttcr. !l thcyrc going to bc bcttcr than you, thcn thcrcs
no rcason lor you to kccp complaining. ! think thcrcs a rcsponsibility
thcrc lor artists to scc things that othcr pcoplc do and say, ! cant do that.
Vhcn pcoplc look at what cnzcl Vashington docs, thcy say, ! cant do
that. Vhat ! dont agrcc with is artists cndorsing thcsc lools. !t nccds to
comc across: This is my lanc. ! dont try to comc across into your lanc.
!m not trying out lor thc N8A. ! think thats our rcsponsibility as artists.
Vhcn you look back at thc goldcn cra ol hiphop, nobody tricd to lollow
RunMC or 8ig addy Kanc. Thcy didnt look at it as ! can do that.
You can call thcsc guys simplistic rappcrs or whatcvcr, but whatcvcr you
say, just lct somc lool try to rcmakc arryl and Joc. You cant do it. That
lcvcl ol cxccllcncc is what ! would dcsirc to scc, cvcn il only to stop somc
ol thcsc pcoplc who arc not in thc cralt lrom trying to comc in. ! think il
thcrc was that high dcgrcc ol craltsmanship, intcgrity, and cxccllcncc, lcss
pcoplc would bclicvc thcy could do it.
- - - --
At thc top and pinnaclc ol that list is playing Madison Squarc Gardcn. !m
a 8rooklyn boy, and !ll ncvcr lorgct playing thc gardcnand almost lalling
oll thc stagcand standing at thc vcry tip ol thc stagc in thc gardcn and
saying, 8rooklyn, makc somc noisc! !t just soundcd likc an carthquakc.
Thcn wc playcd lor 90,000 pcoplc in Scncgal, which is just ridiculous. Vc
playcd lor anothcr 30 or 40,000 at Vcmblcy, which was ridiculous. My
londcst mcmorics rcally arc thc pcrlormanccs. Vc wcrc a pcrlormancc
band lirstwc didnt cvcn know wc wcrc going to makc rccordsand wc
always kncw wc wantcd to do shows.
-
-- -
- --- -
! think, at that particular point, as lar as my status and gcncral public rcputa
tion, most pcoplc lookcd at it likc ! had arrivcd. ! always think about music
pcoplc and thc way wc wcrc sct up at thc labcls. Thcrc was always a tclcvision
thcrc playing thc vidco stations. For pcoplc to look up lrom thcir dcsks and
scc mc on a motorcyclc rapping, ! think pcoplc thought, Hcs kind ol gradu
atcd a bit. 8ut you could blamc a littlc bit ol thc salcs on thc promotion ol thc
rccord. Thc thing about making music that you rcally havc to undcrstand is
that yourc just not cvcrybodys cup ol tca. Thats probably just what it was. !t
AY
63
wasnt rcally that pcoplc hatcd mc or anything, but that just wasnt what thcy
rcally wantcd to hcar at that timc. Thc thing with music is that wc stay out
thcrc, wc arc archivcd and wc continuc to cxist out thcrc. !t could bc anothcr
thrcc or lour ycars, and anything could happcn. That album could rcsurgc as
long as its out thcrc. So ! dont look at it in any kind ol ncgativc way at all.
! had a good run. ! had a numbcr onc singlc with 8rooklyn 8ouncc in a
bunch ol tcrritorics in thc U.S. ! got to tour.
Thc onc thing that ! did lcarn is that ! rcally didnt rcally want to bc a
solo artist. ! wcnt on tour, and lrom my lirst show ! was just choking. ! mcan,
! did wcll, but ! was likc, Man, whcrc arc my guys: ! was so uscd to doing
routincs and stagc antics with thcm. To try and hold that all togcthcr by
myscll . . . ! dcvclopcd a wholc ncw rcspcct lor solo artists. ! thought, Man,
! dont know how in thc hcll LL |Cool J| and |8ig addy| Kanc do this.
- -
- -
-
You know, this is thc lirst timc that !vc cvcr bccn askcd that qucstion, and
!m not rcally surc . . . 8cing a produccr, ! did lcarn a bit morc about music. !
lcarncd morc about bcat placcmcnt and whcrc things arc going to go on thc
track. !n a way, ! think that givcs you a chcat card as an cmccc. !l you think
about mc in thc studio making thc addy solo rccord, !m laying it all out
lor myscll. So il you takc thc titlc track . . . !m thc produccr, so ! know !m
going to play thc lirst couplc ol bars rcally raw and put nothing on it and just
makc it sound rcally warm. Thcn !m going to do thc old Jamaican whccl and
lct thc rccord go back and thcn bring thc rccord back in lull. ! could ncvcr
havc thought about that kind ol thing il ! was only an cmccc, but as thc pro
duccr ! gct to think about intros, outros, scgucsall thosc things that as an
cmccc ! would not rcally havc thought about. Vhcn yourc only an cmccc,
somconc just kind ol hands you thc bcat and you try to ligurc out what yourc
going to do with it. 8ut whcn yourc making it, you can say, Man, ! hcar an
airplanc up undcr that snarc, and you can just put it up undcrncath thcrc. So
! think that bcing a produccr gavc mc an cmccc chcat shcct.
- - -
Vorking with thc Rcd Hot Chili Pcppcrs is onc ol my lavoritc mcmorics.
Mccting thcm was incrcdiblc, and thcn Flca actually playcd somc cxtra things
lor mc in thc vcrsion ! did ol Highcr Ground. !t was kind ol intcrcsting to
CHAPTR !GHT
64
scc how thcsc guys wcrc so hcavily into Jamcs 8rown and Gcorgc Clinton,
which totally blcw mc away. So thats a grcat mcmory. Thcn ! wrotc and
produccd a song lor Jcllrcy sbornc, and ! cricd bccausc hc did thc most
incrcdiblc singlc takc that you could cvcr hopc to scc in your lilc. Hc just
wcnt through it, and it was awcsomc. Hc just had that grcat voicc, and
thosc wcrc thc words -that ! had writtcn in my bcdroom. !t
was just amazing. And thcn any ol thc work ! did with Pull |addy| and
Mary |J. 8ligc| and thosc guys . . . !t was just such a hcyday lor Pull. Vc
championcd him to bc this young upandcoming mogul. Just making
thosc rccords, going in thc studio and doing thc Rcal Lovc rcmixall ol
thosc things wcrc vcry dcar to mc.
- - - - -

!t was a blcssing and a cursc. !ts not about thc chcck alonc, but its com
plctcly bcnclicial. Yourc talking about chccks, cxpcnsc accounts, a lot ol
travcling. ! originally wcnt to work lor a rccord company just to lcarn about
thc inncr workings ol a rccord company. Standing on thc outsidc and looking
in, wc uscd to always say, Thcyrc jcrking pcoplc, thcyrc putting pcoplcs
albums on thc shcll. You know, ! kind ol camc to a doubtlul placc whcrc !
said, ! dont rcally bclicvc that thcyrc doing thosc things. Maybc artists arc
doing this to thcmsclvcs. So ! wcnt to work at a rccord company to try and
lind out il somc ol that stull was truc. A lot ol it was truc, sad to say.
! lcarncd thc music promotion gamc. ! lcarncd what it mcans to gct your
rccord on thc radio. ! lcarncd quitc a bit about rctail, and a lot about publicity.
8ut ! also lcarncd that ! didnt bclicvc that music had a placc in corporations.
! ncvcr likcd that idca ol big corporatc music. My philosophy is that all grcat
music is madc lor livc blocks. Maybc thosc livc blocks arc provcrbial, but
whcn you talk about rcal lilc, 8rucc Springstccn is making music lor Asbury
Park, JayZ is making music lor Marcy, Stctsasonic is making music lor ast
Ncw York, Hammcr is making music lor thc pcoplc in akland. Thats what
happcns, and thcn it usually sprcads out and thcn pcoplc |lrom othcr placcs|
start listcning to it. So that conccpt ol big corporatc music, thats a littlc wcird.
- - - - --
-
Us. ! dont think that wcmy gcncration ol artiststook cnough initiativc
to bc mcntors. ! could sit hcrc and talk about thcsc kids until !m bluc in
AY
65
thc lacc, but il ! wasnt in thcrc tcaching thcm how to do it, thcn ! havc no
right to complain about what thcyrc doing. ! scc somc similar things about
thc gcncration lrom bclorc us, as wcll. Just thc othcr day ! was listcning to
an intcrvicw that wc did right altcr Talkin All That Jazz. And onc ol thc
things wc talkcd about in that intcrvicw was that at that timc a lot ol musi
cians would not cvcn work with us. ! think that thcy should havc bccn bull
ish about bcing mcntorsthcsc samc guys who wcrc saying, All this rap
stull is just a lad . . . And that was \an Gibbs position in this intcrvicw.
Hc said, ! think you samplc bccausc its casy. And bccausc its chcapcr.
And ! madc this argumcnt with him that it was not chcapcr, ! was paying
morc to clcar that samplc than it would havc cost to havc anybody comc in
hcrc and play a guitar. ! think thcy didnt takc thc initiativc to mcntor us,
and ! think wcvc ultimatcly donc that, as wcll. So whcn you ask mc whats
missing, ! think its us. ! havc to put thc blamc on mc. ! cant put it on this
young dudc. Vho knows morcmc or him: So its kind ol scnsclcss whcn
you scc !cc T talking about Soulja 8oy. !cc T is my man, but thats a bunch
ol bullshit. !cc, youvc alrcady donc it all. Vhy cant you go and talk to this
young brothcr: For you to sit and talk about how wack hc is is just bullshit.

1. (1986) |as Stctsasonic|

2. (1988) |as Stctsasonic|
3. - (1991) |as Stctsasonic|
4. (1993)
66

8
orn and raiscd in Quccns, Ncw York, J JS1 bcgan working as a
gralliti artist and as a J during thc goldcn agc ol hiphop in thc
latc 1980s. Hc thcn spcnt most ol thc 1990s honing his cralt, bat
tling (and dclcating) local Js in battlcs and appcaring on 8omb Rccords
album scrics. uring this pcriod, hc also startcd dabbling
in production. !n 1999, J JS1 was askcd by J Skribblc to appcar on thc
MT\ show during thcir highprolilc HipHop Vcck. Vhilc
taping thc show, hc mct lormcr Roots bcatboxcr Rahzcl, and thc two havc
sincc joincd lorccs and bccomc musical partncrs. MT\ soon askcd J JS1
to comc back and spin during thcir - - show. !n 2002, J
JS1 was initiatcd into thc world lamous collcctivc thc Rock Stcady Crcw,
which is onc ol thc ultimatc honors in hiphop.
!n 2003, J JS1 rclcascd his lirst album, , which lca
turcd a virtual whos who ol hiphop. Hc has sincc rclcascd thrcc morc al
bums, -, , and . As
with thc lirst album, thcsc subscqucnt LPs lcaturcd many
ol hiphops most talcntcd cmcccs spitting ovcr JS1s original productions.
JS1 has produccd such hiphop hcavywcights as KRSnc, Ultramagnctic
MCs, La Coka Nostra, 8ig addy Kanc, Sadat X, Common, MC, Masta
Acc, Kool G. Rap, C, vcrlast, RZA, vidcncc ol ilatcd Pcoplcs, Jcru
a amaja, Casual, Craig G, and many morc. !n addition to producing his
own albums, J JS1 has also craltcd a numbcr ol scratch albums, as wcll
as a handlul ol popular mixtapcs.


-

J JS1
67
-
Vhcn ! think ol hiphop, thc main thing that comcs to mind is making
somcthing lrom nothing. Thc crcation ol hiphop music camc lrom tak
ing a bunch ol dillcrcnt gcnrcs ol music and rcpcating thc brcaks. Gralliti
cvolvcd lrom pcoplc putting up thcir namcs and thc namcs ol thcir strccts
into an art lorm. Hiphop camc lrom a community that didnt havc any
thing, and its making a wholc lot ol somcthing out ol nothing. Thats how
! look at itits crcating.
- - -
Vhcn ! was growing up in Quccns, hiphop was cvcrywhcrc. vcryonc was
trying to brcakdancc or rhymc or do gralliti. ! just rcmcmbcr riding my big
whccl outsidc my grandmothcrs housc whcn ! was about livc ycars old.
This would havc bccn around 1979 or 1980. ! rcmcmbcr sccing pcoplc with
thc cardboard out, trying to brcakdancc. ! rcmcmbcr sccing thcm painting
murals on thc pizzcria around thc corncr. That was likc thc lirst rcal thing
that stood out in my mind. ! was likc, what is that: Hcrc ! was, livc or six,
and thcy had told mc to stay away lrom thosc guys, so ! wantcd to know
cxactly what that was.
-
clinitcly gralliti. From an carly agc, cvcn bclorc gralliti, ! would just sit
and draw. And thcn ! startcd sccing thcsc guys doing gralliti right around
thc corncr. Thcrc was this onc wall that thcy would always do murals on,
and ! would just watch thosc guys. You know, it was rcally popular in thc
mid80s. Gralliti was all ovcr thc placc, and thc mayor ol Ncw York City
was always on T\ talking about trying to gct rid ol it. Living right hcrc
by thc scvcn trains, you just saw that stull all thc timc. ! was always trying
to draw lrom thc third gradc or so. Thcn, around thc cighth gradc, ! wcnt
out and startcd trying to bomb. That just lcd to my doing tons ol picccs,
and ! was vcry hcavily into that all thc way through thc 90s. ! was always
dccjaying on thc sidc, but thcn ! startcd making moncy dccjaying, so ! kind
ol lclt thc gralliti thing alonc to pursuc that.

A couplc ol things that stand out to mc wcrc sccing Jam Mastcr Jay and
sccing Grandmastcr ST whcn hc did thosc scratchcs lor Rockit livc on
thc Amcrican Music Awards. 8cing a littlc kid, thosc guys just lookcd so
CHAPTR N!N
68
cool up thcrc with thc turntablcs. vcrything sccmcd to kind ol rcvolvc
around thcm. ! just kind ol always took to that and likcd that, and ! sort
ol always kncw that this is what ! wantcd to do. Thcn, in thc mid90s,
pcoplc startcd to givc mc rccognition lor somc ol thc mixtapcs and skills
stull and just sort ol sccing what ! was doing. ! gucss oncc ! got guys likc
KRSnc to rccord with mc, and ! startcd touring with Rahzcl in thc latc
90s, ! kncw that ! could rcally do this. ! lclt likc il thcsc guyssomc ol
thc most talcntcd in thc worldwcrc taking mc scriously, thcn ! ligurcd
maybc ! had a rcal shot at this. That was whcn ! rcally kncw that this was
what ! was going to do. ! mcan, this was always my thing, but ! wcnt to
collcgc and all that so ! would havc a backup plan. You cant rcally count
on somcthing likc this making you a living.

Thats basically lrom thc gralliti stull. ! wrotc JRMS in thc bcginning.
This was back whcn ! was doing thc Vild Stylc picccs, and ! always likcd thc
livclcttcr tags. 8ack thcn ! always wrotc JRMS on my work. Thcn, whcn
! startcd to bomb thc highways and strccts, ! basically shortcncd it down to
JS. Thc onc was a gralliti thing. You would put that at thc cnd to signily
that you wcrc thc lirst pcrson to writc that. !t bcgan as JRMS1, and thcn
! just shortcncd it to JS, and kcpt thc onc at thc cnd. And cvcrybody would
scc thosc morc bccausc unlcss you wcrc a gralliti writcr, you rcally wouldnt
go to thc Gralliti Hall ol Famc. So cvcrybody clsc would scc thc JS1s on thc
highway, and that was sort ol my namc at that point bccausc cvcrybody kncw
mc lrom that. Vhcn ! startcd to J or do partics and it camc timc to put
my namc on a llycr, ! ligurcd ! might as wcll kccp thc samc namc cvcrybody
kncw mc as. Thcrc was no scnsc in having lour dillcrcnt namcs.
-
!n thc wholc timc ! was dccjaying and collccting rccords lrom thc latc 80s,
! was also trying to producc. ! always had chcap samplcrs and a lourtrack or
an cighttrack or thc digital rccordcr whcn thcy camc out and Pro Tools . . .
! was just always into that sidc ol things. ! gucss in tcrms ol thc busincss
sidc ol it and just somcthing ! always wantcd to do, ! kncw ! had to scpa
ratc myscll lrom thc pack. Thcrc arc a billion pcoplc who can scratch rcally
wcll, and thcyrc out thcrc doing what thcy do. ! ligurcd it was timc lor mc
to try to showcasc somc ol my production work. ! just basically did dcmos
with my lricnds and doing local stull. So ! startcd using my conncctions
J JS1
69
and rcachcd out to thcsc pcoplc ! grcw up around, whom ! had bccn sccing
at shows lor ycars. So ! rcachcd out to KRSnc and 8ig addy Kanc and
all thosc typcs ol pcoplc. Thcy know what !m about, and that !m trying
to do somc rcal hiphop stull. ! gucss thcy likcd what ! was doing. !t was a
big thing lor mc to scparatc myscll lrom thc rcst ol thc turntablist crowd. !
can say, Look, ! also havc production on thcsc albums.
- - -
- --
- -
Thcrc arc a million rcasons. Thc lirst rcason, and thc most obvious onc, is
that thc samplc clcarancc thing kind ol killcd it. !t also killcd a lot ol thc
kind ol music that ! lovc, likc thc Largc Prolcssor and iamond stull.
! mcan, il you look at a guy likc J Prcmicr, his lirst thrcc Gang Starr
albums wcrc built on loops. And thcn hc startcd chopping cvcrything to
try and gct around samplc clcarancc. Hc sort ol invcntcd his own stylc ol
sampling just to try to gct around samplc clcarancc stull. And thc samc
thing happcncd with thc scratch hooks. To mc, its mostly rumors, not
too many pcoplc rcally gct sucd. ! think Prcmicr told mc hc only got sucd
oncc lor scratching somcthing in thc hook, and thcy dont clcar all ol thc
stull hc scratchcs in thc hooks. ! think its just a rumor that gcts around
and pcoplc gct ncrvous, so thcy stop trying to usc it. Thc big namc acts
dont rcally want to usc that stylc. And a lot ol thcmand this is sad
dont want to usc scratch hooks bccausc thcy look at it as old school. !ts
not currcnt, it docsnt sound likc a Lil Vaync song. !t docsnt lit into thc
lormat ol what cvcryonc clsc is doing. ! had this wcird thcory that all thc
stull that ! likcstull likc Gang Starr and thc carly Commondicd out
bccausc its middlcolthcroad hiphop. Vhat ! mcan by that is that its
not commcrcialits not Lil Vaync or Nclly, so thosc pcoplc arc going
to hatc itand its not undcrground cnough to lit in with thc crowd that
likcs Atmosphcrc and thosc kinds ol groups. ! think that typc ol music just
gcts lost in thc mix. ilatcd Pcoplcs still docs it, but its bccausc thcy havc
J 8abu. Thc disappcarancc ol that stull sucks, but its dclinitcly bccausc
ol samplc clcarancc and pcoplc thinking that it sounds too 1990s. A lot ol
pcoplc cant do it thc right way. A lot ol pcoplc arc trying to usc scratch
hooks, but most ol thcm just sound likc thcyrc trying to bc J Rcvolution,
and hcs a hard act to lollow.
CHAPTR N!N
70
- - -- - - - -
- - - -
-
No. Honcstly, !vc ncvcr clcarcd a samplc in my lilc. ! ligurc il somconc
cvcr sucs mc, thcn grcatthat mcans thcy listcncd to my rccord! |Laughs.|
! dont cvcn pay attcntion to that stull. As lor thc rcasons ! usc so many
scratch samplcs, ! look at it as thats my part to talk on thc song. Through
thosc samplcs, ! gct to say somc ol thc things that ! lccl. Thc guy making
thc song can control thc vibc ol thc song, thc mood, thc titlc, thc bcat, but
somctimcs you havc somc stull that you want to say. So its a way lor mc
to spcak. And ! just always lovcd that. Growing up and buying hiphop
rccords, my lricnds and ! would always go through a ncw album and try
to scc what Pctc Rock or rc uscd to scratch in thc background on thosc
NVA albums. Vc would hcar Prcmicr or Lord Fincssc scratch somcthing,
and wcd say, Vow, this is whcrc hc got this samplc . . . ! just cnjoy do
ing that. ! collcct acapclla vcrsions ol songs just to lind stull to scratch into
songs. !ts dillicult, too, bccausc its tricky in that thc pool ol stull you can
usc is kind ol limitcd, thcrc arc only a ccrtain amount ol hiphop acapcllas
availablc. Thcrc arc only a ccrtain amount ol lincs that arc going to work
propcrly in thc songs. Vhcn you start using multiplc phrascs on songs and
you do multiplc albums, its limitcd. Likc Prcmicr, hcs constantly on thc
prowl looking lor ncw phrascs bccausc hcs uscd so many. !t docs bccomc
morc dillicult with cach song you do, but ! lovc it. Thats part ol thc lun
in making it.
- - - - --

l coursc. Hcs thc man. Thc thing is, !vc lcarncd so much just lrom lis
tcning to his music. Thcrcs an art to it, thcrcs a way to do it propcrly. Hcs
just so good at what hc docs and thc way hc composcs his stull. Thc rcason
that Prcmicr is my lavoritc guy isnt cvcn thc music so much as it is just thc
way hc is. !l you mcct him and talk to him, hcs just a rcgular cool dudc.
Hcll just sit and to talk with you about hiphop. Hcs rcally passion
atc about wanting to prcscrvc good hiphop, and hcs just dcad scrious. !
rcmcmbcr bcing at a studio onc timc and r. rc was in anothcr room ol
thc studio. Thcrc was this sccurity that was thcrc, and thcy wouldnt cvcn
lct mc go to thc bathroom whilc hc was in thc building. So you havc to
J JS1
71
lovc a guy likc Prcmicr wholl just invitc you ovcr to his housc. Thats why
! lovc that dudc. bviously thc music hcs madc is just amazing. ! mcan,
shit, il hc wasnt around ! cant imaginc how littlc music ! would havc had
to listcn to in thc past 15 ycars. |Chucklcs.|
- - -
-

! mct Sadat through my lricnd JV. Thcyrc lricnds, and Sadat was always
hanging out with us. Hc was talking about wanting to put togcthcr a ncw
projcct. Vc wcrc just kicking around idcas lor thc namc ol an album, and
hc rcally likcd thc titlc . Hc was likc, That would bc cool.
And wc wcrc just likc, Sincc wcrc hanging around cach othcr so much,
why dont wc just knock out a song or two cvcry timc wcrc togcthcr. vcr
a lcw months wc knockcd out a song hcrc and thcrc, and thcn all ol a sud
dcn wc had thc cntirc projcct prctty much togcthcr. Vc callcd in a lcw
gucsts to rhymc on it, and all ol a suddcn wc wcrc likc, h, look, wcvc
got an album.
- - -
- --
- - -
!m not cvcn going to lic, ! lorgct what gamcs ! took somc ol thosc samplcs
lrom. Rahzcl is on thcrc bcatboxing, doing somc ol thc drum cllccts. ! had
that track sitting around lor a whilc. Actually, CRayz Valz did his vcrsc
lirst, quitc a whilc back. Vc wcrc just kind ol considcring what wc should
do with it. Vc wcrc likc, Vho arc wc going to add on it: Vhat arc wc go
ing to do with it: nc day ! was talking with Sadat about vidco gamcs, and
wc wcrc rcminiscing about all thc old gamc consolcs. ! was likc, Youvc got
to do this. And wc just put it togcthcr. !m a vidco gamc lrcak. Vhcn you
callcd, ! was just sitting hcrc playing ----- . |Laughs.|
- - - -
clinitcly rccording with KRSnc, and doing somc shows with him.
Rcally, rccording with all thc guys !vc got to rccord with has bccn amaz
ingguys likc Pharoahc Monch and Kool G. Rap. Anothcr onc is thc lirst
timc ! got to do stull on stagc togcthcr with Mix Mastcr Mikc. That was
rcally cool lor mc. ! was likc, Vow. !m dccjaying with a guy that ! rcally
CHAPTR N!N
72
look up to. Thcrc havc bccn many momcnts that havc bccn amazing lor
mc. You know, bcing on stagc with somconc likc a J Prcmicr or Q8crt
or Alrikka 8ambaata. Just all ol that stull in gcncral has bccn incrcdiblc.
Honcstly, !vc gottcn to a point whcrc litcrally oncc a month !m having a
momcnt whcrc ! think to myscll, Vow, - is thc grcatcst momcnt ol my
carccr. !m lucky to gct to bc around a lot ol cool pcoplc and things.
- - -- -
--
Most ol us makc our moncy by touring and doing as many shows as pos
siblc, so that makcs it vcry dillicult trying to link up with pcoplc, schcdulc
studio timc, know whos availablc whcn . . . !t gcts vcry dillicult whcn you
havc multiplc cmcccs on songs, and thcy arcnt cvcn in thc samc part ol thc
country. ! mcan, thc artists always want to hcar what thc othcr guys going
to do and scc thc dircction ol thc song. Thats why with this album ! rcally
kind ol took cvcrything in my own hands and orchcstratcd cvcry dctail ol
cvcrything myscll. That madc it llow a littlc bit casicr than lcaving things
up to thc artists, bccausc it would havc bccn vcry dillicult to sort ol piccc
things togcthcr. vcryonc would havc just sort ol gonc in thcir own dircc
tions, and it wouldnt havc bccn cohcsivc. !ts dclinitcly a hcadachc, but this
is what ! do, and honcstly ! kind ol cnjoy it. ncc thc projcct is linishcd
and ! sit back and listcn to it all togcthcr, !m likc, Vow. This is so cool.
Thc kind ol albums that ! makc, and thc way ! makc thcm, it docsnt rcally
mattcr whcn you gct it or whcn you hcar it, anyonc who would likc that
stylc ol music is going to likc it thc samc il thcy gct thc album thc day it
comcs out or thrcc ycars altcr thc lact. !ts not going to makc a dillcrcncc.
!ts dillicult, but its so rcwarding whcn ! think about who ! gct to work
with and what ! gct to do. !ts a rcally cool opportunity lor mc.
-

My lavoritc part is whcn pcoplc whovc ncvcr sccn what wc do comc
out. Vcrc kind ol pigconholcd into thc undcrground hiphop sccnc and
thc turntablism crowd, so its usually thc samc lans who comc out to our
shows. So anytimc ! gct to bc in lront ol a dillcrcnt crowd, ! lovc it. Vhcn
wc gct to pcrlorm at thcsc uropcan lcstivals and thcrc arc 15,000 pcoplc
thcrc . . . ! lovc doing what ! lovc and scratching ovcr thc old brcakbcats,
and bcing ablc to bring that to thosc pcoplc. Thats my lavoritc part. To
J JS1
73
bc honcst with you, cvcn somc ol my lavoritc guys, thc guys who uscd to
do that, arcnt doing that anymorc. Now its likc straight Crooklyn clan
clcctro dancc mashups all night long until your hcad lalls oll. Now that
cvcrybodys doing that, my lavoritc thing about dccjaying is doing that.
-
- - -
!ts gctting worsc around thc world as timc gocs on, but lor thc most part,
it is rcally, rcally good. ! think thc rcason is bccausc thcy didnt havc thc
MT\ and major radio prcscncc pushing thc commcrcial stull down thcir
throat. Thcy didnt havc all that markcting. Thcy do now, but thcy didnt
uscd to. Vhcn you would show up thcrc, thcsc kids would know about you
just through word ol mouth, thc !ntcrnct, or lrom going to a show. And
a lot ol thc horriblc groups that wc dont likc didnt tour in thosc placcs.
Thc good groupsthc rcal hiphop groupswould bc out thcrc touring,
gctting thc word out. Thcrc would bc a Gang Starr tour, and that would
hclp sprcad thc word that mc and Rahzcl would bc thcrc. ! think thcy
apprcciatc it morc thcrc bccausc thcy dont gct thosc artists vcry oltcn. !n
Ncw York, thcrc arc 25 shows a night with cvcryonc coming through. You
bccomc spoilcd. vcr thcrc thcy just apprcciatc it so much morc. Jcru a
amaja shows up and thosc kids arc jumping through thc rool, thrillcd that
hc camc. 8ut il hc docs a show ovcr hcrc in 8rooklyn, somc ol thc kids arc
likc, h, thats cool. Jcru again. |Laughs.| !n uropc thcyrc morc opcn
mindcd as lar as music gocs. Vhat ! likc about it is that thcyll mix, youll
havc pcoplc who likc rock and dancc music and old school hiphop and
housc all hanging out in thc samc placc. vcr hcrc you dont rcally scc that.
!ts kind ol scgrcgatcd in tcrms ol what pcoplc listcn to.
- - - -
- -
! always tcll pcoplc that as long as !m alivc that shit aint dcad. |Laughs.|
! mcan, what thc hcll am ! doing: !ts not dcad. !ts just that thc stylc ol
hiphop that wc all grcw up with and lovcd is no longcr thc stylc thats in.
!ts not whats making thc big bucks. vcryonc is just scarcd. Thats thc big
ovcrall problcm. Thcrcs no room lor that stull anymorc. Now cvcryonc is
doing thc Lady Gaga dancc clcctro stull. !ts not rcally dcad. Pcoplc kccp
saying it gocs in cyclcs and itll comc back around, but ! dont rcally scc
Public ncmy/Gang Starrtypc hiphop bccoming rcally popular again in
CHAPTR N!N
74
thc mainstrcam. That stylc ol music is still out thcrc and millions ol kids
around thc world still lovc it, so its not dcad. ! scc that whcn !m somc
whcrc likc Montrcal doing a show with Rahzcl and Prcmicr. !ts still alivc,
its just not thriving likc it oncc did. !ts not in thc mainstrcam. !ts sort ol
out ol thc public cyc now.
- - -
- - - - -
- - -
- - - - -
Vhcn you look at a lot ol thc music thats out thcrc now, thc contcnt
lcvcl is so low. !l you look back at a group likc Naughty by Naturc, who
was commcrcial at thc timc, thcir music had contcnt. Thcrc was a conccpt
thcrc, and thcy wcrc talking about somcthing. You could listcn to thc
words and maybc gain somcthing lrom that. Ncvcr mind thc bcats!m
not rcally into this stylc ol bcats cithcrbut il you brcak it down as a song
and you listcn to what thcyrc saying, thcrc arcnt many songs on thc radio
that you can listcn to without lccling likc a moron lor having listcncd to
thcm.

1. (2003)
2. - (2004)
3. (2004)
4. (2009)
75

L
ong !sland duo ric 8 & Rakim brokc onto thc sccnc in 1985 with
thc singlc ric 8. !s Prcsidcnt, quickly cstablishing thcmsclvcs as
onc ol thc hottcst and most inllucntial acts in hiphop. Two ycars
latcr, thcy rclcascd thcir dcbut album . Thc album immcdiatcly
climbcd into thc Top 10 R&8 chart. This mastcrpicccconsidcrcd by
many to bc thc singlc grcatcst hiphop album cvcr madccstablishcd ric
8. & Rakim as a cuttingcdgc duo. ric 8s powcrlul production brokc
ncw ground, with somc songs containing as many as tcn dillcrcnt samplcs
laycrcd togcthcr. ric 8s cxtcnsivc sampling ol Jamcs 8rown also lcd to an
cra in which thc singcrs catalog would bc hcavily samplcd and intcrpolatcd
by just about cvcry produccr in hiphop. Rakims clcvcr wordplay, intcrnal
rhymc schcmcs, and skilllul dclivcry provcd to bc lar morc advanccd than
anything which had prcccdcd it, and thc duo quickly bccamc onc ol thc
most rcspcctcd and imitatcd groups around. , which ultimatcly
wcnt platinum, rcprcscnts a clcar shilt in thc artistic dircction ol hiphop
music. !n 1987, ric 8. & Rakims song Paid in Full was rcmixcd by
production tcam Coldcut and rclcascd on thc soundtrack lor thc lilm
-. Thc rcmix, which bccamc a hit singlc in thc U.K. and a staplc in dancc
clubs cvcrywhcrc, is now rccognizcd as a hiphop milcstonc.
ric 8. & Rakims sccond ollcring, , was rclcascd thc
lollowing ycar. n thcir sccond outing, both ric 8. and Rakim stcppcd up
thcir rcspcctivc gamcs. Vhilc may not bc as widcly rccog
nizcd as , it rcprcscntcd clcar growth in tcrms ol production and

CHAPTR TN
76
lyricism and is an undcniablc sccond mastcrpiccc. Thc album produccd lour
solid singlcs, including thc titlc track Follow thc Lcadcr, which pcakcd at
numbcr livc on thc Hot ancc Music chart and numbcr 16 on thc R&8
chart. Thc album would ultimatcly attain gold status. !n 1989, ric 8. & Ra
kim appcarcd on Jody Vatlcys hit song Fricnds. Thc song, which pcakcd
at numbcr ninc on thc Hot 100, is signilicant bccausc it was onc ol
thc carlicst instanccs in which rap artists appcarcd on an R&8 singlc.
8y thc timc ric 8. & Rakims third album, ,
was rclcascd, thc musical landscapc ol hiphop had changcd dramatically.
NVA and lront man azy had complctcly changcd thc dircction ol hip
hop with a ncw subgcnrc known as gangsta rap. Adding to this, groups
likc Tribc Callcd Qucst and c La Soul had cmcrgcd, introducing thc
world to altcrnativc hiphop. Thcsc ncw trcnds couplcd with thc groups
dctcrmination to maintain artistic intcgrity lcd to somcwhat diminishcd
salcs and a dilliculty in linding a mainstrcam audicncc. Ncvcrthclcss, thc
album still managcd to go gold and was oncc again hailcd as a mastcrpiccc,
bccoming onc ol thc lirst albums to rcccivc magazincs covctcd
livcmic rating. Altcr making notablc contributions to thc soundtracks ol
thc lilms - (Vhats on Your Mind:) and (Know thc
Lcdgc), ric 8. & Rakim rclcascd thcir lourth and linal album,
. Thc album, likc thcir thrcc prcvious outings, rcachcd
thc Top 10 on thc R&8/hiphop chart. Shortly altcr thc rclcasc ol thc
album, ric 8. & Rakim disbandcd and wcnt thcir scparatc ways.
Thrcc ycars latcr, ric 8. rclcascd a sclltitlcd solo album on which hc
tricd his hand at rapping. !n 1996, ric 8. was hircd by Sugc Knight as
hcad ol thc cath Row ast labcl. isplaying an uncanny busincss scnsc,
ric 8. has sincc divcrsilicd. Anybody can bc an artist, but not cvcryonc
can bc a busincssman, hc has said. A busincssman will always outlast thc
talcnt, bccausc thc talcnt comcs and gocs. Asidc lrom owning morc than
a lcw rcstaurants, thrcc succcsslul music studios, and cstablishing his own
linc ol cncrgy drinks, ric 8. also managcs a stablc ol boxcrs that includcs
Floyd Maywcathcr, Riddick 8owc, and livcr McCall. !n 2008, ric 8.
joincd lorccs with a ncwcomcr and cstablishcd thc group ric 8. & Avion,
rclcasing thc singlc Gct on thc Floor.
-
For mc, its a lilcstylc. !ts cvcrything that ! do.
R!C 8.
77
- -
Just bcing in thc park . . . lcarning music, carrying rccords, undcrstanding
music and thc turntablcs, and just thc busincss itscll.

8ack in thc carly cightics, thcrc was a group callcd King Charlcs. Thcy
had a big sound systcm and thcy uscd to play in thc park in Quccns. Thc
Js namc was \crnon. Hc was thc J, but thc systcm was owncd by a guy
namcd Charlcs. ! startcd carrying rccords lor thcm as a kid. ! lcarncd thc
busincss lrom thosc guys.

! was a mobilc J lor a radio station in Ncw York callcd V8LS. ! startcd
out on onc ol thc lirst strcct tcams cvcr. ! was out playing music in Long
!sland, and ! mct this guy namcd Alvin Toncy. Hc said thcrc wcrc a couplc
ol guys out thcrc who rappcd rcally wcll, and that ! should mcct thcm. nc
was Frcddic Foxxx, and thc othcr was Rakim. So ! wcnt to mcct with thcm,
and thcn wc wcnt lrom thcrc and startcd doing music.
-
8cing ablc to play at thc Apollo. That was a big momcnt lor us. Vc playcd
Madison Squarc Gardcn. Thosc arc thc kinds ol things that rcally stick out
in my mind.
- --- -

Rick Jamcs was dclinitcly a guy who taught us all how to livc. You could
ask ddic Murphy and Mikc Tyson and all thosc guys. Rick Jamcs was thc
onc who madc us rcalizc that wc wcrc making rcal moncythat wc should
comc out ol thc shadows and not bc alraid to makc moncy and spcnd
moncy. Vc camc lrom an cra in which wc wcrc told that you shouldnt do
this and you shouldnt do that. And Rick Jamcs said, You only livc onc lilc.
ont lct anyonc clsc livc your lilc lor you. And that madc mc buy my lirst
car, thc lirst car ! cvcr owncd in my lilc was a RollsRoycc.
- - -
You know, ! had a lot ol lirsts. 8ut ! try to tcach pcoplc about thc holcs that
! myscll lcll into. ! dont want othcr pcoplc lalling into thosc holcs. Thosc
accomplishmcnts arc grcat, but somc ol my grcatcst accomplishmcnts arc
CHAPTR TN
78
bcing ablc to sit down with pcoplc and say, Hcy, dont makc this mistakc,
dont makc that mistakc . . .
- -
Just busincss stull. ! tcll thcm to makc it busincss, not pcrsonal. ! tcll thcm
in cvcrything thcy do thcy should makc busincss dccisions rathcr than pcr
sonal oncs. !t has to makc busincss scnsc to makc moncy. At thc cnd ol thc
day, all thcsc convcrsations about ! likc this or ! dont likc thatyou
havc to lorgct thosc things. At thc cnd ol thc day, it has to bc about busi
ncss. You dont havc to go homc and slccp with thcsc pcoplc. Just gct your
moncy and kccp on moving.
- -
You know what it rcally was: !l you put all thc timc togcthcr that wc spcnt
. . . You know, wc spcnt a day hcrc on this rccord, and a day hcrc on that
rccord. Vhcn you put it all togcthcr and you look at thc actual running
timc, it probably took us about a wcck to put that album togcthcr.
-

Vhcn wc lirst startcd, ! wcnt out to Long !sland. Rakims brothcr workcd
at a placc whcrc thcy prcsscd rccords. Thcy had a prcssing plant. So cvcry
brcakbcat you could imaginc, cvcry rccord you could imaginc, thcy prcsscd
out ol this bootlcg prcssing plant. So ! got thc rccords lrom him, and
Marlcy Marl kncw how to usc thc cquipmcnt. ! wasnt an cnginccr at thc
timc, so ! paid Marlcy Marl to bc thc cnginccr. ! gavc him thc rccords that
! wantcd to uscthc bcats and thc sounds that ! wantcdand told him
cxactly what ! wantcd put togcthcr. And thc rcason that MC Shan was
involvcd is bccausc, at thc timc, Marlcy Marl didnt want to do thc mixcs,
hc was in thc room with this chick and hc didnt want to do thc mixcs, so
mc and Shan sat thcrc at thc board and did all thc mixing lor thc singlc.
-- -
-
Thats what thcy all do until you go back and go ovcr thc timclinc . . . Vhcn
wc startcd ric 8. & Rakim, wc startcd it as a momandpop busincss. And
thcn it turncd into a corporation. So with cvcrything that was succcsslul,
pcoplc want to say that thcy did this, that, and that. !l you listcn to pcoplc,
thcyll tcll you that Marlcy Marl produccd thc rccords and that all this stull
R!C 8.
79
supposcdly happcncd, but il you askcd Marlcy whcrc hc camc up with thc
rccords hc wouldnt bc ablc to tcll you. ! tcll pcoplc, il you think Marlcy
Marl produccd thc rccord, look at thc rccord and youll scc that Marlcy Marl
docsnt gct any crcdit lor production. Hc docsnt gct any ol thc publishing
moncy cithcr. And hcs ncvcr gottcn any royaltics lrom thc rccord. And look,
Marlcy Marl sucd Cold Chillin Rccords to gct all ol his moncy back, and
hc ncvcr sucd us. Vhy arc wc so spccial: !ll tcll you why: bccausc hc didnt
producc thc rccord. !l somconc wants to takc crcdit, thats linc and lantastic.
That docsnt bothcr mc at all. At thc cnd ol thc day, ! know whos gctting
paid and whos not. All thcsc guys who said that thcy did this and did that,
thcy still havc thc right to suc, and thcy havcnt sucd yct. Hcy, il you did it,
youd suc and youd say, ! did this and ! did that. You would havc gottcn
paid, but hcrc wc arc 23 ycars latcr, and no lawsuits havc cmcrgcd. So what
docs that tcll you: !ts all convcrsations to makc thosc pcoplc lccl good.
- - - -
No, no. oug . Frcsh was involvcd in a way. oug . Frcsh was my
mcntor. Hc was thc guy that ! took thc rccords to so ! could bouncc thcm
oll him. At that timc, oug . Frcsh was on lirc with Laiai and
Thc Show. Thosc wcrc two ol thc biggcst rccords ol that timc. Thcy wcrc
on an indcpcndcnt labcl out ol Calilornia, and thcy just sort ol took on a lilc
ol thcir own. Thc rccord just grcw and grcw, and its still growing. oug was
touring thc world and playing thcsc big stagcs, and ! uscd to go to ougs
housc . . . !d do a rccord in thc studio, and thcn !d comc and play it lor
oug. And hc would sit thcrc likc my prolcssor and say, ric, lct mc ask you
a qucstion: how did you comc to this rccord and this sound and this sound:
! would say, Vcll, oug, ! was at a party and ! hcard this rccord, and ! did
this, this, and that. And oug would sit thcrc and look at mc. You know,
ric, thats prctty intcrcsting. How did you comc up with this ric 8. !s
Prcsidcnt rccord: And !d tcll him, and hc said, You know, ric, nobodys
cvcr donc anything likc this bclorc. Thats prctty intcrcsting. And you know,
all thc rccords ! did, ! bounccd thcm oll oug . Frcsh.
! camc in on such a high lcvcl having a guy likc oug, who was onc
ol thc grcatcst cntcrtaincrs in rap music, actually sit thcrc and listcn to my
rccords. That was an honor lor mc. So whcn pcoplc say hc was involvcd in
a littlc way, ! say thats not truc. Hcs rcally thc guy rcsponsiblc lor guiding
us with thc songs that now appcar on thc album.
CHAPTR TN
80
- -
- -
No. You know what: ! got into this busincss to makc moncy. ! didnt gct
into this busincss to bccomc a star or to gct rccognition. Pay mc and !ll go
oll into thc sunsct. My thing was and still is that !m doing this to makc
moncy. This is a busincss. !ts not a vanity issuc lor mc. !ts not lor mc to bc
on thc covcr ol a magazinc and say, !, !, !, and mc, mc, mc. Pay mc and
lct mc go about my way. So that ncvcr allcctcd mc, and anyonc who knows
will tcll you that ! put in thc cllort to do cvcrything. 8ut at thc cnd ol thc
day its a group cllort and a lamily busincss, so it didnt bothcr mc. And it
still docsnt bothcr mc. Show mc thc moncy and !ll gct out ol thc way. !
could still bc appcaring in cvcry magazinc, but ! dont do thcm bccausc it
docsnt makc any moncy. And !m not trying to imprcss anybody. ! got into
this busincss to gct out ol thc strccts and to makc moncy.

Nothing happcncd, rcally. ! just wokc up onc day and dccidcd ! didnt want
to do it anymorc. ! had a grcat run with it, and it just got to a point whcrc
it had bccomc a pain in thc ass, and ! just wantcd to do othcr things. Vhcn
you havc disagrccmcnts with pcoplc, its usually ovcr cithcr moncy or ovcr
womcn. Mc and Rakim, lrom dollar onc, lrom thc vcry lirst moncy wc
madc, which was 81,500 lor a show on Long !slandwc split it all 50/50.
And wc still continuc to split thc moncy 50/50 today. Sccond ol all, thc
namc ol thc group was madc up by Rakim. And third, wc ncvcr slcpt with
thc samc womcn. So wc dont havc an issuc.
A lot ol pcoplc havc pushcd Rakim to say stupid shit, but at thc cnd
ol thc day, il nobody stolc our moncy and nobody slcpt with anybody clscs
woman, thcn thcrc is no issuc. Thats my takc on it. ! got tircd and said
cnough was cnough, and ! walkcd away lrom it.
- -
Thc accomplishmcnt !m most proud ol is my publishing dcal and my
music dcal. ! was thc lirst pcrson in hiphop to cvcr gct a million dollars
to do a rccord. ! was thc lirst pcrson to cvcr rcccivc 82 million lor publish
ing. And thc lirst pcrson to gct 82 million to makc a rccord. vcn with thc
boundarics that ! brokc down 23 ycars ago, pcoplc arc still yclling at thc
rccord companics to givc thcm a million dollars. ! think its prctty lunny.
8ack thcn ! got a chancc to lcarn and undcrstand busincss. Vc wcrc at
R!C 8.
81
!sland and 4th and 8roadway Rccords, and wc had sold ovcr a million rc
cords. Yct thcy didnt cvcn want to buy us tshirts. Thcy didnt want to do
anything to promotc thc rccord. Vc had sold maybc thrcc million rccords,
and thcn U2 camc out thc door with a big giant vidco. Thcy did postcrs
and advcrtiscmcnts cvcrywhcrc. And ! said look, cost thcm lcss
than 87,000 to makc. !t might havc bccn 85,000, and cvcn thats probably
pushing it. Vcrc at two or thrcc million rccords, and you didnt spcnd
any moncy to promotc it. And thcy lookcd at mc likc ! was crazy, and !
said, Lcts do basic math. 8asic math docsnt changc. ! dont carc whos
doing thc accounting, basic math docsnt changc. So ! sat down and did
thc math and said, Hold up, thcrcs somcthing wrong hcrc. Thcy did no
promotions at all lor thc album, and wc wcrc sclling rccords
just bascd on word ol mouth. For U2s rccord thcy wcrc out doing radio,
tclcvision, postcrs, a promotional tour . . . Vc ncvcr cvcn did a promotional
tour. ur promotional tour was our paid gigs and going to thc radio sta
tion. So ! said, !l wc cant makc thc lions sharc ol thc moncy, thcn wc
shouldnt cvcn bc doing this.
Thcy wantcd us to sign up. Thcy wantcd to givc us 8450,000 to comc
back. ur managcr Russcll Simmons was likc, h, ric, you should takc
thc dcal. Thats morc than RunMC has cvcr gottcn. And ! said, Rus
scll, il ! dont gct thc 8450,000 today !m linc with it bccausc its morc
moncy than ! had bclorc anyway. Hc lookcd at mc likc . . . ! think il hc
thought lor cvcn a sccond that hc could havc bcatcn mc, hc would havc
startcd swinging. Hc was upsct that ! didnt scttlc lor thc 8450,000. Thcn
! ran into a guy namcd Michacl Halcy who workcd lor MCA Rccords. !
was at a party that Princc had thrown, and ! bumpcd into Michacl Halcy.
Hc camc up to mc and said, ric, what arc you doing: And ! told him
that wc wcrc supposcd to sign with !sland thc lollowing day, and that thcy
wantcd to pay us 8450,000. Michacl Halcy said, Yo, comc to MCA. Vc
can doublc thcir ollcr. So ! tcll Russcll, and hc says, Scc, ric, thcrc
you go again, always trying to do busincss. You havc to lct mc takc carc
ol thc busincss. And Russcll wcnt on and on. So thc ncxt day wcrc on a
planc llying lirst class. !t was Lyor Cohcn, Rakim, and myscll, llying on a
planc to mcct in a hotcl. Thcn it bccamc a bidding war, and Varncr 8ros.
jumpcd in and thrcw thcir moncy on thc tablc. 8cing ablc to spcarhcad my
own busincss and brcak down thosc barricrssaying that wc should gct thc
moncy wc dcscrvc lor thc things wc wcrc doingis, ! think, my grcatcst
CHAPTR TN
82
accomplishmcnt. 8cing ablc to go out and gct 82 million lor publishing is
still a grcat accomplishmcnt, and this was back in 1988!
- -
! think thc problcm with thc currcnt statc ol hiphop is that cvcryonc has an
opinion. !nstcad ol just cnjoying it, thcy havc to complain about it. !ts just likc
whcn you go to a baskctball gamcyou cnjoy thc gamc, you dont criticizc thc
playcrs. vcrybody has to pick cvcrything apart. Soulja 8oy is this, and that
pcrson is that . . . njoy thc music! !l you dont likc it, turn it oll and lind
somcthing that you do likc. vcrybodys a critic today. !nstcad ol just cmbrac
ing thc music and bcing thanklul lor ncw music, you want to bc a critic. ! dont
carc what thc rccord is, thcrcs somconc whos going to likc it. Vc havc to gct
this thing back to whcrc its cntcrtainmcnt and lun again. !ts gottcn so critical
now. Thcrc arc blogs and cvcrybody wants to rip thc artists apart.
! laugh whcn ! hcar silly stull likc pcoplc saying that JayZs ncw
album is thc worst shit thcyvc cvcr hcard. Arc you kidding mc, man: Jay
Z, to mc, is thc Roy Joncs Jr. ol rap. Vcvc askcd morc ol Roy Joncs in
boxing than wc havc ol any othcr boxcr in history. Roy Joncs wcnt all thc
way up to thc hcavywcight division and won a titlc in cvcry division on thc
way up. And JayZ is thc samc way . . . Hc continucs to do it, and wc con
tinuc to ask morc ol him and prcss thc issuc. Hcs dclivcrcd timc and timc
again. Tcn numbcr onc albums, on his way to 11 . . . You know, cnough is
cnough. !nstcad ol cmbracing him and cnjoying his music, cvcryonc wants
to criticizc him. Vhcn ! camc up, cvcryonc was so cxcitcd about thc music
and thc inlusion ol ncw songs and ncw pcoplc, and it was a grcat timc. 8ut
now cvcryonc is a critic.

1. (1987) |as ric 8. & Rakim|

2. (1988) |as ric 8. & Rakim|
3. (1990) |as ric 8. & Rakim|
4. (1992) |as ric 8. & Rakim|
5. (1995)
6. - (2001) |as ric 8. & Rakim|
7. -- (2003) |as ric 8. & Rakim|
8. (2005) |as ric 8. & Rakim|
83

H
iphop journalist drcam hampton (shc publishcs hcr namc in
lowcrcasc lcttcrs as a nod to lcminist author bcll hooks) was born
in ctroit, Michigan in 1972. At thc agc ol 18 shc rclocatcd to
Ncw York City, whcrc shc attcndcd NYUs Tisch School ol thc Arts. ur
ing this pcriod shc wcnt to work at magazinc, whcrc shc bccamc
thc lirst lcmalc cditor to bc cmploycd thcrc. Shc soon bccamc closc lricnds
with an upandcoming cmccc known as 8iggic Smalls (latcr rcdubbcd
thc Notorious 8.!.G.), and cvcn convinccd him to appcar as thc subjcct ol
a short lilm shc madc lor hcr documcntary class. Although shc was only
cmploycd at lor 18 months, hampton wrotc many notablc picccs
which pushcd thc boundarics ol hiphop journalism. Hcr cssays on policc
brutality, thc politics ol thc music industry, and thc (thcn) cscalating
misogyny lound within thc rcalm ol hiphop lcaturcd a litcrary stylc and
dcpth that had bccn sorcly lacking in much ol thc hiphop journalism prc
ccding hcr. Vith a stylc that was as cqually inlormcd by litcraturc, poctry,
and cvcn documcntary lilmmaking as it was by hcr contcmporary music
writcrs, hampton providcd a dimcnsion and shading to prolilcs ol artists
likc Snoop oggy ogg and Tupac Shakur that was so dctailcd that it can
bc said to havc bccn transccndcnt.
Shc thcn took hcr lormidablc talcnts to thc ncwly cstablishcd
- magazinc, whcrc shc continucd to covcr thc hiphop world as thc
publications cditorinchicl. Shc also pcnncd a numbcr ol mcmorablc
articlcs and artist prolilcs, lrom JayZ to Mary J. 8ligc, as a contributing


-

CHAPTR L\N
84
writcr at Quincy Joncs . Hcr writings havc also graccd thc pagcs ol
such notcd publications as , , - , --,
and . Hcr cssays and articlcs havc appcarcd in numcrous collcc
tions including - - -
-, - , and - -
- .
!n 2003, hampton collaboratcd with JayZ on his mcmoir
. Howcvcr, whcn thc book was complctcd thc lollowing ycar, JayZ
optcd not to publish it bccausc hc lclt its contcnts wcrc too pcrsonal. Scvcn
ycars latcr hampton and JayZ collaboratcd on a sccond ollcring, .
!n addition to this, hampton also scrvcd as coauthor ol Kamal QTip
Farccds 2011 mcmoir - -.
8csidcs bcing an accomplishcd writcr, hampton has also lound succcss
in lilmmaking. Hcr narrativc short lilm was an ollicial cntry at thc
2002 Sundancc Film Fcstival and won thc award lor 8cst Short Film at
s Ncwport Film Fcstival. Shc was an associatc produccr ol thc
mmywinning \H1 - - and coproduccr
ol thc Pctcr Spicrhclmcd 8.!.G. documcntary . !n 2010,
hampton madc hcr lcaturc dircctorial dcbut with thc acclaimcd conccrt
lilm -, which lcaturcs pcrlormanccs by Mos cl, Common,
Talib Kwcli, cad Prcz, and thc Roots.
-
Thc lirst thing ! think ol, il wc wcrc playing that wordassociation gamc,
is rock and roll. Vhat ! mcan is, ! just think ol how transgrcssivc rock was,
cvcn as it playcd on ccrtain traditions likc thc blucs, it was so loud and so
bold and so irrcvcrcnt that it crcatcd its own spacc, it lookcd likc somc
thing complctcly dillcrcnt lrom that which prcccdcd it, cvcn il it was just
an cxtcnsion ol that.
Also, !vc always argucd that hiphop is a gcncrational schism that
wc, as black pcoplc, cxpcricnccd in thc latc 1980s and carly ninctics, whcn
hiphop rcally bcgan to dclinc itscll. l coursc you had Sam Cookc and
all thcsc pcoplc struggling with sccular music vcrsus gospcl, but thc sccular
music that Sam Cookc was singing wasnt so dillcrcnt lrom what Mahalia
Jackson was doing that it was unrccognizablc. So ! think that what hiphop
bccamc in black houscholds was unrccognizablc to thc parcnts, and whilc
that had happcncd a gcncration bclorc with whitc kids listcning to black
RAM HAMPTN
85
rock, it hadnt happcncd in our own community. Music had always bccn
vcry much unilicd in black houscholds, so that hadnt occurrcd in thc black
community until hiphop. At wc had that wholc idca ol thc hip
hop , which ! ncvcr rcally likcd . . . And ! undcrstand that thats a way
ol bcing morc inclusivc, and ! dont think you can cxcludc pcoplc ol othcr
raccs likc thc Pucrto Rican bboys or thc whitc Jcwish pcoplc likc Charlic
Ahcarn or cvcn avc Mays and Jon Schcctcr, right: 8ut csscntially this
is a black youth phcnomcnon, so ! would say that that intcrgcncrational
schism coincidcs complctcly with thc billion dollar crack industry. As thcn
in thc latc cightics whcn hiphop bccomcs morc in thc tradition ol a Rich
ard Vright autobiographical narrativc, thcrc arc thcsc things going on in
thc strccts that arc also, on a practical lcvcl, dividing thc black community
along gcncrational lincs.
- -
Thcrc was a tapc that a girl on my block posscsscd. Hcr mom had a boy
lricnd who would go to Ncw York and gct thosc Korcan bootlcg Gucci
bags, and thcn comc back and scll thcm. And hc brought homc a battlc
tapc with Roxannc Shantc and thc Rcal Roxannc, and on that tapc thcy
wcrc bcing so violcnt with onc anothcrvcrbally, cvcrything, likc Your
pussy is a ccsspool. l coursc thcrc wcrc othcr cxpcricnccs, likc wc wcrc
skatcrs hcrcwc dont brcakdancc and all that shit hcrc in ctroit . . . Vc
uscd to do stull at thc skating rink, and ! rcmcmbcr Soulsonic Forcc and
Planct Rock and all ol that. 8ut in tcrms ol a narrativc kind ol gripping
mc, it was dclinitcly that battlc bctwccn Roxannc Shantc and thc Rcal
Roxannc.
- ---
-
Vcll, ! ncvcr rcally did. !t just sort ol happcncd. Thcrc has ncvcr bccn a
point whcrc !vc idcntilicd myscll as a hiphop journalist. ! think at bcst,
! writc, but !m ccrtainly not a rcportcr. ! dont cvcn ask pcoplc as many
qucstions as youvc askcd mc, and youvc only gottcn in likc thrcc so lar.
Vhcn ! was with Tupac, ! didnt cvcn havc a tapc rccordcr, bccausc !
think pcoplc lic whcn you turn on thc tapc rccordcr. !m not a rcportcr.
! dont gct sccond and supporting lacts and stull likc that. 8ut thcrc was
a timc whcn ! rcalizcd, okay, !m doing this, so ! wcnt back and rcad
Norman Mailcrs prolilc ol Marilyn Monroc, and thcn it got to thc point
CHAPTR L\N
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whcrc ! was dclcnding myscll lor knowing cats who livcd in my ncigh
borhood. Pcoplc uscd to bc likc, Vcll, ! likc drcam hampton, but what
about - aspcct ol hcr work: And somctimcs it was rootcd in scxism,
likc shc must bc slccping with thcm to gct this kind ol acccss, but othcr
timcs it was just a vcry valid criticism, likc How can you know thc pcoplc
yourc writing about: And thats whcn ! wcnt back and rcad pcoplc likc
Gay Talcsc and |about| his rclationship with Floyd Pattcrson. Thats
whcn ! startcd rcading a ccrtain kind ol journalism that gavc mc pcrmis
sion to do what ! did. ! just didnt think ! could bc thc lirst pcrson to
know thc pcoplc ! was writing about! |Laughs.| ! mcan, Floyd Pattcrson
livcd on Gay Talcscs couch, and yct hc wrotc thrcc dozcn picccs on him
lor -. 8ut, ol coursc, Floyd Pattcrson didnt havc a vagina, so that
was ncvcr qucstioncd.
So thcrc was ncvcr a timc whcn ! rcally considcrcd myscll a hiphop
journalist. !vc always bccn a hiphop , but !vc ncvcr bccn likc, !m a
hiphop journalist. !m lar lcss prolilic than a lot ol pcoplc that ! considcr
my collcagucs. And thosc guys pitch storics. You know, !vc ncvcr pitchcd
a story. ! told that ! wantcd to covcr Tupac, and no onc
clsc wantcd to do it. Thcy dclinitcly wcrcnt going to makc it a covcr story.
Thcy wcrc likc, Thc 8rcndas Got a 8aby nigga: Vhatcvcr. Havc lun.
|Laughs again.| So maybc thats thc closcst !vc comc to a pitch.
- - --
- -
- -
Thank you. !m a rcadcr! !m a lar morc prolilic rcadcr than ! am a writcr.
! havc somcthing duc right now, and !m rcading - - by Patti Smith,
about hcr and Robcrt Mapplcthorpc! |Laughs.| !m on dcadlinc. Vhy am
! up at night rcading this book:
- - -
- -

! dont gct thc scnsc that Jim alythc ncws rcportcr who wrotc all ol that
Son ol Sam stullis just sitting around rcading Philip Roth! ! think that
journalists tcnd to bc short rcadcrs. Having said that, ! think that anicl
Smith rcads as much as mc. Kcvin Powcll rcads as much or morc than ! do.
! dont know . . . ! dont rcally think thats lair.
RAM HAMPTN
87
- --- --
- -

! dont ncccssarily think thats truc. From whcrc ! standand ! was
ncvcr a big rcadcr ol , cvcn whcn ! was thcrc! would say that
Sclwyn Hinds pcriod sccmcd prctty togcthcr, whcn hc was thc cditor
inchicl. ! think its casy to makc statcmcnts likc that, but ! dont rcally
think that would bcar out il wc wcrc to sit down and look through all
thc issucs. !ts likc whcn pcoplc say that a ccrtain cra in hiphop was thc
goldcn pcriod. 8ut thcn il wc wcrc to rcally just Googlc cvcry rccord that
was rclcascd that ycar, lrom thc Skinny 8oys to Young 8lack Tccnagcrs,
wc would lind that thcrc wcrc rcally only lour or livc grcat albums. And
thcn il you wcrc to do thc samc thing with thc ycar 2006, wc would lind
that thcrc wcrc anothcr lour or livc grcat albums. ! mcan, ! lovc swccp
ing gcncralizations, but thcy dont usually tcnd to bc truc. |Chucklcs.| !l
wc wcrc to sit down with a bunch ol issucs ol , ! think youd
probably lind that cvcn altcr avc Mays and all his stupid bullshit hc
pullcd with Almighty RS, that Sclwyn was probably a much bcttcr
cditorinchicl than Jon Schcctcr was. 8ut you know, ! madc that wholc
rock and roll analogy carlicr . . . Vcll, thcrc wcrc likc cntirc dccadcs ol
whcn thc magazinc was almost unrcadablc, and you cant
just blamc it on hair bands. Huntcr Thompson was still writing, but hc
was doing a parody ol himscll.
- - -
- -
No, no, nohc scnt mc a . Hc just said, !m gonna kill that bitch
drcam. ! lorgct now who gavc mc thc mcssagc. ! dont know, !vc gottcn so
many thrcats that ! rcally cant rcmcmbcr thcm all. !t sccms likc maybc thc
mcssagc just camc through to . 8ack thcn rappcrs would just call
us up and cursc us out. |Laughs.| ! rcmcmbcr ric 8. calling us and cursing
us out, and wc put him on thc spcakcr phonc, and wc wcrc all honorcd.
- - -
Ycs! Chco Cokcr has a bcttcr rccord ol all this shit than ! do, bccausc hc
actually wrotc a big piccc that may havc wound up gctting killcd lor .
!t was likc a 12,000 word cssay . . . ! was only thcrc lor 18 months, but ycs,
azy thrcatcncd mc. ! think thc thing that ollcndcd him thc most was
CHAPTR L\N
88
that ! attackcd thcir scxincss, ! said thcy lookcd likc cxtras in a porn llick.
And ! gucss by his cstimation, thcy wcrc thc -- in a porn llick! |Laughs.|
- -
-
8ccausc wc had bccn riding him about it, Matty C. opcncd up thc Un
signcd Hypc column lor a littlc bit morc ol a dcmocratic proccss. That
involvcd us sitting around altcr ollicc hours, gctting high and listcning to
dcmo tapcs, and voting on thcm. So thats how ! lirst hcard 8ig. Latcr Pull
got promotcd to thc \.P. ol A&R, and hc was likc, Yo, ! gotta gct somc
ncw shit. Vho do ! nccd to talk to: You nccd to talk to Matty. Pull thcn
callcd Matty, and thcn Matty gavc Pull 8iggics dcmo.
Now in tcrms ol mc actually mccting 8ig . . . Pull movcs last. Hcs
likc a last slow pcrson, hcll movc quick to makc thc dcal, but thcn itll takc
lorcvcr lor thc album to comc out. 8ut hc immcdiatcly got on thc thing
with 8ig. So ! would say in bctwccn mc hcaring thc tapc and mc actually
mccting 8ig might havc bccn lour or livc wccks. 8ut by thc timc ! mct
8iggic, it was with Pull. ! mct him in thc bascmcnt ol addys housc,
and 8iggic was doing his lirst cvcr prolcssional rccording, which was his
rhymc lor thc Rcal Lovc rcmix. Hc rcally ncvcr unlockcd his cycs lrom
his Tims, hc was incrcdibly shy. !t wasnt cvcn likc Pull was saying, Comc
with mc and mcct thc dudc youvc bccn tclling mc about. !t was morc likc,
Yo, !m in 8rooklyn. Comc ovcr to addys with mc. ! livcd around
thc corncr lrom addy, and around thc corncr lrom 8iggic, wc all livcd
in a thrcc block radius. So Pull pickcd mc up and wc litcrally wcnt around
thc corncr to addys, and thcrc was 8iggic.
8ut altcr that, ! would scc 8iggic on Fulton on my way to NYU and
it was likc thc dillcrcncc bctwccn bcing a commutcr in a ncighborhood, or
basically a gcntrilicr. Hcrc ! am this NYU studcnt, who comcs lrom a way
worsc ncighborhood in ctroit, but whatcvcr . . . ! kncw that thcrc wcrc
kids on thc strcct, but ! had alrcady lclt my hood, and ! didnt want to
mcct a wholc ncw hood. |Laughs.| Thats not what !m in Ncw York lor.
8ut lrom that point on, 8ig wcnt lrom bcing invisiblc to visiblc to mc. So
cvcry timc !d walk down thc strcct hcd bc likc, Yo! And thcn cvcntually
hc was likc, Nobody luck with drcam. This is my girl. And thcn ! got to
know cvcryonc on thc block, and thcn thc ncxt thing you know hcs coming
to classcs with mc. !m likc, Vhat thc luck arc you doing: You just going
RAM HAMPTN
89
to stay in hcrc with mc: And hc was likc, Ycah, what clsc am ! going to
do: |Laughs again.| So !m likc, Comc to class with mc. Vcrc scrccn
ing today. Youll likc it. So thats litcrally how
wc bccamc lricnds. Vc got high and thcn wcnt to school and sat through
- togcthcr.
- - - - - -

Vc wcrc both in thc samc movcmcnt. Vhcn ! lirst camc to Ncw York, !
hookcd up with my bcst lricnd, Monila, whom ! had mct in Atlanta, and
wc coloundcd a chaptcr ol a national organization, so wc coloundcd thc
Ncw York chaptcr ol thc Malcolm X Grassroots Movcmcnt. And wc wcrc
kind ol chargcd with our cldcrs and mcntorsold 8lack Libcration Army
and old Panthcr pcoplc, but mostly 8LA and Rcpublican Ncw Alrica
alumnito raisc awarcncss about political prisoncrs in thc Unitcd Statcs,
and to usc hiphop to do that. So wc basically cndcd up coming up with thc
8lack August conccrt scrics ycars latcr. 8ut at thc timc wc wcrc doing littlc
spotty shows. And obviously Mutulu Shakur is onc ol thc cx8lack Lib
cration Army pcoplc that wc idcntily as a political prisoncr, somconc who
dcclarcd war on thc Amcrican govcrnmcnt and is imprisoncd bccausc ol his
politics and a scrics ol trumpcdup chargcs. nc ol thc vcry lirst lundraiscrs
wc did lor Mutulu was in 8rooklyn, and 8iggic pcrlormcd. Hc was
drunk, and my bcst lricnd Monila was vcry mad at him. |Chucklcs.| 8ut
8iggic didnt know who Tupac was, and probably didnt rcmcmbcr who
Mutulu was. Hc was just pcrlorming as a lavor to mc, and wc might havc
raiscd likc 8600. Vc wcrcand arcvcry much a grassroots organization.
vcn now, il wc do thc 8lack August conccrt, wc nct about 86,000 and
that moncy litcrally gocs on thc books ol thc pcoplc wc work with: Mutulu
Shakur, his codclcndant, Sckou dinga, pcoplc likc that.
You askcd mc about thc covcr story lor , but Tupac and !
mct way bclorc that . . . Vc mct bccausc ol thc work ! was doing on his
stcpdads campaign, and thcn latcr, whcn ! lclt , it was bccausc
Latilah ollcrcd mc a job as A&R at Flavor Unit Rccords, this was whcn
shc was turning hcr managcmcnt company into a rccord labcl. So ! wound
up working as A&R on Naughty by Naturcs sccond album, and Apachcs
lirst album. Naughty by Naturc did a song on thc soundtrack callcd
Uptown Anthcm, and Tupac was in thc vidco. So on thc vidco sct, that
CHAPTR L\N
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was my lirst timc actually mccting Pac. ! rcmcmbcr hc said somcthing
llirty to mc, and ! was likc, !m glad ! ran into you, ! nccd 8300 lor postcrs
lor this lundraiscr lor Mutulu. And hc was likc, Aw, man, yourc onc ol
thcm activist chicks . . . |Laughs.| So hc llirtcd with mc cvcr again
altcr that. .
So thc six months wc spcnt togcthcr lor that covcr piccc . . . ! know
that ! got on his ncrvcs somctimcs. vcn you now, you spcnd timc doing
thcsc intcrvicws and you havc no idca whats going to happcn to thcm, but
its not likc going on T\ and having thc scnsc that cvcn il you gct cditcd,
its still going to bc you. ! dont know right now il yourc using a tapc
rccordcr or il yourc taking notcs, how good you arc at taking notcs, !vc
ccrtainly bccn misquotcd, and itll bc a small misquotc but itll changc thc
cntirc mcaning ol what ! was saying. Vcll, its rcally annoying lor artists.
! mcan, publicists arc artists lcast lavoritc pcoplc at thc magazincs and at
thcir labcls. Thcy dont scc how, as opposcd to thc promotions dcpartmcnt,
which scnds thcm to radio stations whcrc thcy try to charm a J, which
thcn in turn cquals spins, which, in thcir mind cquals moncy, sitting with
a writcr lor an hour or two is going to cqual moncy, particularly back thcn.
And thats an hour, lct alonc six months . . . !t was a tcst ol whatcvcr ac
quaintancc wc alrcady had. Vc didnt havc it casy likc mc and 8ig, 8ig and
! had a vcry casy and grcat lricndship. ! wantcd to talk to him cvcry day, hc
wantcd to talk to mc cvcry day. Mc and Pac didnt ncccssarily havc that,
wc argucd a lot. Vc got kickcd out ol a rcstaurant lor arguing at thc top ol
our lungs about his rapc casc.
- -
-
! didnt know him bccausc hc was my ncighbor. ! mct Jay bccausc hc
thought ! was a man and hc wantcd to thank mc lor a vcry undcrstanding
rcvicw ol - . Coming lrom ctroit, il thcrc was onc thing
! kncw it was drug dcalcrs. !n thc s mind, -
wasnt a big cnough album to gct its own rcvicw, so thcy madc mc do a
doublc rcvicw ol Nas - and - . Jay was doing
an intcrvicw with a good lricnd ol minc lor what was probably his lirst covcr
at in its carlicst incarnation. My lricnd arryl awscy was writing
that articlc, and hc put mc on thc phonc with Jay. ! gucss hc had mcntioncd
mc and Jay was likc, ! lovc that articlc that hc did on mc. And arryl
RAM HAMPTN
91
was likc, h, no, drcam is actually a girl. ! just misscd hcr call, so lct mc
rcturn hcr call whilc yourc hcrc. So Jay got on his phonc and thankcd mc,
which ! thought was nicc. 8ccausc you ncvcr hcar whcn pcoplc stull.
! thought that was not only vcry prolcssional, but quitc kind. And thcn
latcr, whcn ! was an cditorinchicl at - !d writtcn a covcr piccc
ol Mary J. 8ligc lor . ! had writtcn thc piccc, and thcn by thc timc it
had comc out, ! was cditorinchicl at -. So !m doing somc altcr
hours shit at -, working, and ! gct a call on my ollicc phonc and !
answcr it on thc spcakcr, and hc says, Yo, this is JayZ. Can you pick up:
!m shy. And thcn hc was likc, ! rcally likc that piccc you did on Mary.
And now ! was likc, h, yourc just lucking wcird! |Laughs.| Yourc calling
mc about anothcr artist. Most artists only rcad about thcmsclvcs, and thcy
only commcntcd whcn thcy hatcd it, and yourc calling to tcll mc that you
likcd a piccc ol writing ! did: ! thought hc was hilarious, and wc just bc
camc lricnds altcr that. And hc turncd out to bc a word ncrd, so wc would
just call cach othcr with words. r hc would bc likc, Vhat docs this word
mcan: Vc just had that kind ol lun. And thcn ! think wc rcally bccamc
good lricnds altcr 8iggic dicd. ! had convcrsations with him . . . Pully is a
lot morc closcd. !vc known Pully longcr than 8iggic, Jay, or any ol thcsc
guys, but hcs a rcally privatc pcrson, so hc wasnt rcally somconc ! could
talk to altcr 8ig dicd. And Jay turncd out to bc somconc that ! could. ! say
all ol this to say that wc had a history going into thc book, onc whcrc hc
lclt comlortablc talking to mc, which is rcally important lor him, bccausc
Jay is actually privatc, too. Hcs likc that drug dcalcr paranoid/privatc. So
wc wrotc thc book, and thcn it didnt comc out, but wcrc doing anothcr
book right now, which should bc rclcascd ncxt ycar.
- - - -
-
!t took mc a ycar and a hall to writc it, whcn wc had initially thought it
would takc six wccks. ! had ncvcr writtcn a book bclorc, so ! just thought it
would bc likc a long articlc. |Laughs.| ! didnt know that it wasnt. !n somc
ways ! think that il ! had had that book donc in six wccks and it had bccn
rcady whcn was rcady, it might havc gottcn publishcd.
8ut thats just mc imagining shit. ! bclicvc Jay whcn hc said that ! had
bccn scnding him chaptcrs, and hc was linc with that, but thcn whcn hc
had thc wholc book in his hand, hc almost passcd out. Hc said, ! couldnt
CHAPTR L\N
92
imaginc somcbody holding my lilc in thcir hands. Thats what hc told
, which was morc than hc told mc at thc timc. Hc lclt rcally
bad as a lricnd, knowing that ! had put all this work into that, so thcrc wcrc
dclinitcly a couplc ol months whcrc hc was just avoiding mc. ! just had to
gct rcal Zcn about it, you know, its thc journcy and not thc dcstination.
And you lcarn things whcn somconc writcs a book about you. ! dont
know how much you know about your parcnts marriagc, but hc didnt
know a lot ol thc dctails, just likc ! dont. And ! think that somc ol thosc
intcrvicws . . . him in a way, and it was good. So ovcrall thc book
was a succcss, but just maybc bctwccn somcthing likc lour pcoplcmc, Jay,
his mom, and his dad.

1. |unpublishcd| |w/ JayZ|

2. (2010) |w/ JayZ|
3. - - (2011) |w/ QTip|
93

P
omona, Calilornia cmccc/singcr Kokanc grcw up around music. His
lathcr, Jcrry 8. Long, Sr., was a notcd composcr and arrangcr lor
Motown Rccords, whosc most lamous arrangcmcnts includc thc
Tcmptations Just My !magination and 8all ol Conlusion. !n addition
to this, his cousin was Cold 187um, a produccr and cmccc lrom thc group
Abovc thc Law. Kokancs alliliation with Cold 187um hclpcd him land a
rccording dcal with pic Rccords through ric azy Vright. !n 1991,
Kokanc rclcascd his dcbut album undcr thc
Vho Am !: Kokanc thcn appcarcd on thc classic NVA album
, also cowriting thc hit singlc Appctitc lor cstruction. ur
ing this timc hc also appcarcd on and hclpcd arrangc tracks lor Abovc thc
Laws 1993 album Thc lollowing ycar Kokanc rclcascd
his sccond album, . Thc album is notablc lor its singlc
Slow 8urnin 22.5 cgrccs Farcnhcit, as wcll as thc diss song ont
8itc a Funk, which was rccordcd at thc hcight ol thc inlamous Ruthlcss
Rccords/cath Row bccl.
That samc ycar Kokanc contributcd hcavily to Abovc thc Laws album
- -, appcaring on six ol thc albums 12 songs. Kokanc lclt
Ruthlcss Rccords in 1996 lollowing thc untimcly dcath ol azy. !n
1999, Kokanc rclcascd his 8attlccatproduccd third album,
, on urcka Rccords. !n 2000, Kokanc rcconncctcd with Snoop
ogg and wcnt to work as an inhousc singcr lor his oggystylc Rccords.
This union lcd to Kokancs contributing hcavily to Snoops album -

CHAPTR TVL\
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, appcaring on cight songs. Hc also madc an appcarancc on r. rcs
classic album , trading vcrscs with thc likcs ol Xzibit, MC
Rcn, and clari on thc song Somc LA Niggaz.
Kokanc has sincc madc appcaranccs in thc motion picturcs -
and , and has continucd working stcadily making his own albums
and appcaring on othcr artists songs. His subscqucnt albums includc
, , and . Hc has also rc
cordcd albums with thc groups thc Hood Mob and Rainc N Lanc. !n 2010,
Kokanc rcturncd with thc album and a mixtapc with J
Crazy Tooncs titlcd --, which lcaturcd appcaranccs by !cc
Cubc, VC, Abovc thc Law, and Snoop ogg.
-
Culturc. Thc strugglc. ivcrsity. Somcthing that changcs according to thc
timcs. Funk. !ts thc csscncc ol an cntirc culturc, so its dccpcr than just
putting a sound down. !ts dccp.
- - - -
- -
! rcmcmbcr bcing about livc ycars old and going to thc studio with my pops. !
rcmcmbcr that thc mixing board lookcd likc . . . spacc. !t was hugc. ! thought
it was a U.F.., you know what ! mcan: |Laughs.| ! rcmcmbcr going into
thosc old studios, which wcrc popular in thc 1970s. And thcrc was always
music playing around thc houscholdcvcrything lrom thc stull my dad rc
cordcd with thc Tcmptations all thc way to Marvin Gayc, Roy Ayrcs, on
nic Hathaway, Gcorgc Clinton and Parliamcnt. ncc that stull got into my
cardrums and kind ol scttlcd thcrc, music just bccamc sccond naturc to mc.
- -
Ah, man, Grandmastcr Flash! All ol thosc lolks back thcn . . . ! was born in
Ncw York, but ! movcd to Calilornia whcn ! was lour, and ! can rcmcmbcr
thc hiphop clcmcnt cvcn back thcn. !t was that wholc Ncw York anoint
ing, so to spcak. !t was alrcady upon mc bclorc ! cvcn camc to Calilornia,
you know what !m saying:
- - -- -
Actually, ! signcd my rccord dcal in 1990 with pic. ! was going to comc
out with a rccord undcr thc namc Kokanc, spcllcd with a K. !t was Ko
kanc bccausc ! had thc dopc lyrics, it was a play on words. And whcn ! got
KKAN
95
signcd with pic Rccords, thcy wcrc alraid ol thc ncgativc connotations ol
thc namc, so thcy rcnamcd mc Vho Am !: Thc namc was thc holdup thcrc
. . . Thc Kokanc rccord was supposcd to comc out in 1990, but it didnt.
!nstcad, thcy rclcascd this Vho Am !: rccord, and pcoplc didnt know who
that was. Pcoplc wcrc going to thc rccord storc and asking lor Kokanc, and
thcy wcrc likc Vho thc luck arc : |Laughs.|

! hookcd up with azy through my cousin, Cold187um, who was in a group
callcd Abovc thc Law. Thcy had hookcd up with azy back in 1989 through
a cat namcd Larry Goodman, which is thc rcal namc ol Laylaw, who was a
contributing lactor to NVA. Hc hookcd up that situation ovcr thcrc, and
! was always bustin rhymcs and doing talcnt shows in Pomona and things
likc that. Altcr wc rccordcd a thrccsong dcmo, which was produccd by
Cold187um ol Abovc thc Law, it was givcn to Laylaw. As a rcsult ol this,
wc linally sat down at a roundtablc conlcrcncc with azy. Vhcn azy hcard
thc thrcc songs ! had madc, hc said, !vc got my Gcorgc Clinton. 8ack
thcn ! was on thc hiphop tipyou know, ! ncvcr rcally lclt thc bboy thing
aloncbut ! was also doing all kinds ol othcr dillcrcnt things, as wcll. And
that mccting startcd my busincss rclationship with ric azy Vright.
-
Hc was onc ol a kind. No onc can rcally judgc anyonc clsc bccausc at thc
cnd ol thc day you dont know what anyonc docs bchind closcd doors. Hc
was a walking pcrsona ol that opprcssion that wc camc lrom, you know,
hc was thc good, thc bad, and thc ugly all rollcd up in onc. 8ut thc onc
thing that madc his stcps bcautilul, in my opinion, was thc lact that hc was
a givcr at thc samc timc. Hc gavc a lot ol lolks opportunitics whcn it was
much morc dillicult to lind opportunitics to play this gcnrc ol music, which
would ultimatcly bccomc known as glunk. azy allowcd us to shinc, and
hc said, ont compromisc thc intcgrity ol who and what you arc, and
what you want your artistry to bc. 8chind closcd doors, azy hclpcd a lot
ol kids. !l thcrc had bccn no azy at thc timc that ! was at that lork in
thc road and trying to makc it into this music industry, ! would ncvcr havc
comc this lar. Hcrc ! am 21 ycars latcr, and look at whcrc ! am today.
Thcrc was nobody likc azy. Hc always had his Compton hat on,
Lcvis, a tshirt . . . 8ut thc man also kncw how to gct suitcd and bootcd and
talk about mcchanicals and structurc and busincss. Thcrc was an intclligcncc
CHAPTR TVL\
96
about that brothcr that lcd to thc cstablishmcnt ol a lot ol artists, such as
r. rc to Snoop to mincm to !cc Cubc. Thats why ! always givc big ups
to that brothcr, bccausc you cant rcspcct thc luturc il you dont rcspcct thc
past. And its our job to cducatc thc young oncs, bccausc this music is a part
ol our history.
- -- -

Ah, that was cool, man. Vatching thcm makc thosc NVA rccords was
rcally somcthing. rc is a phcnomcnal dudc. All ol thosc collcctivc pcoplc
madc thosc projccts all thc way down to thc bass playcr . . . You had to bc
thcrc to rcally undcrstand what that magic was all about. !t was amazing to
witncss that sort ol cncrgy at a timc whcn it was still lrcsh likc thc 8catlcs
had oncc bccn. !t was mass mania, man! ! mcan, it was bananas, homic. !t
was a rcally good thing lor mc. Thcy invitcd mc on, and thcy acccptcd mc
as a dillcrcnt kind ol artist. ! havc to givc big ups to azy and rc, as wcll
as my cousin Cold187um, lor gctting mc on a rccord that big at that timc.
That rccord was a classic, and its gonc down in history as onc ol thc NVA
grcats. Thcrc will ncvcr bc anothcr NVA in thc samc way that thcrc will
ncvcr bc anothcr Tupac, thcrc will ncvcr bc anothcr azy. That cxpcricncc
was somcthing clsc, man, and ! carry that samc lcgacy with mc today.
- - - -
-
- -
h, man, ! got my lunk card! |Chucklcs.| You do a lot ol things bccausc
yourc passionatc about this music . . . ! did a lot ol songs with dillcrcnt
cats, lccling thcir dillcrcnt musical vibcs. 8ut this was a casc ol mc as a
child pattcrning myscll altcr thosc guys and thcir tcchniqucs, ! took somc
ol thcir spirit, but didnt cmulatc thcm. ! pattcrncd things altcr thosc guys
and thcn changcd and incorporatcd thcm into my own stylc. Vcll, whcn
cvcr you havc - cats validating your stylc . . . !t changcs you and thc way
that you put down your music, and it also lcts you know that you wcrc do
ing it right all that timc. ! sat up with Gcorgc Clinton and 8ootsy Collins
and thcy told mc that it took thcm 17 ycars lor audicnccs to undcrstand
thcir stylcthcir cosmic slop, so to spcak. And lor mc, it was thc samc
thing! My stylc and thcir stylcs arc dillcrcnt, but thcy undcrstood thc sci
cncc ol itthat wcrc still lunkin! Thcy sat mc down and thcy validatcd mc
KKAN
97
and thcy said, You got it, Kokc! ! mcan, ! cvcn had Gcorgc Clinton comc
in onc dayand this is a blcssing, and !m humblcd by thisand hc hcard
a track ! had just donc and askcd, - - And it was
on thcrc! So its dclinitcly a blcssing to scc that typc ol rcward bccausc
it cncouragcs you to continuc on, bccausc yourc ncvcr too oldunlcss you
say yourc too old. So cvcn though !vc bccn in thc gamc a ccrtain numbcr
ol ycars, ! got a lrcsh ncw wind.
- - - --
-- - -
Vcll, part ol it was probably thc namc. And you havc to rcmcmbcr that at
that timc it was Ruthlcss vcrsus cath Row, and with that thcrc wcrc a lot ol
things happcning that wcrc political. Thcrc wcrc a lot ol things going on, and
it was all a pot ol gumbo that was boiling ovcr and lcading up to that wholc
Ruthlcss vcrsus cath Row thing, and ric dying . . . Thcn oncc that hap
pcncd, wc wcrc ovcr thcrc at Rclativity Rccords, and shit was going haywirc.
! supposc it was incvitablc lor it to happcn likc that, but you know, thc rccord
did somcthing likc 175,000 to 200,000 in salcs. And you havc to rcalizc that !
had vidcos out thcrc, but ! didnt gct thc kind ol markcting push that Snoop
and thosc guys got. And ! was sclling thosc samc typcs ol rccords.
- - -

Ycah, ycah! God blcss you, man, thanks.
- - - - -
-
No doubt. !ts undisputcd. Cold187um, and thcn it tricklcd down to mc.
So rcally, Abovc thc Law wcrc thc originators ol glunk, plain and simplc.
Cold187um uscd to bring that typc ol soullul sound that rc campaigncd as
bcing his own stylc. Hc brought a lot ol that sourcc music to r. rc. ! think
its a shamc, bccausc a lot ol timcs Cold187um docsnt gct thc kind ol props
hc dcscrvcs. A lot ol stull was takcn lrom him. Vcrc grown mcn now, so its
watcr undcr thc bridgc . . . Thc thing ol it is, though, thc truth is thc truth,
and thc truth is that Cold187um was rcsponsiblc lor thc music that camc to
bc known as glunk. ! guarantcc you that il you go look up that inlormation
and you listcn to thosc songs, it all backs up cxactly what wcvc bccn saying
all this timc. ! lccl that its important lor cvcrybody to know that.
CHAPTR TVL\
98
- -- -
-
Again, this was Ruthlcss vcrsus cath Row, and thcrc wcrc a lot ol ncgativc
lorccs on both sidcs. At that timc wc lclt likc Snoop, r. rc, and thc ogg
Pound had takcn our csscncc, which wc callcd glunk. Thcrc wcrc scvcral
bccls with thcm at that timc. Thcn thcy had disscd mc on a song callcd
8lunts and Tanqucray. Vc hcard that and wc wcrc likc, okay . . . 8ccausc
Snoop uscd to bc ovcr thcrc with us. Truthlully, Abovc thc Law was about
to put out a rccord with Snoop ogg. 8clorc all this othcr stull happcncd,
Abovc thc Law was working on thcir music and ! was working on minc.
And Snoop and thcm couldnt wait, so Varrcn G. took Snoop ogg ovcr
to cath Row. At that timc, cvcn in 1991, whcn NVAs camc
out, thcrc was an intcrnal battlc rcgarding thc busincss sidc ol things. So rc
was thinking about lcaving Ruthlcss, and Abovc thc Law and Kokanc wcrc
thinking about lcaving, too. At that timc Sugc |Knight| was doing somc
managing work lor both myscll and Abovc thc Law. So azy arrangcd a
mccting, and r. rc ncvcr showcd up. Vc showcd up and rckindlcd thc
busincss sidc ol things with azy, but by this timc rc was alrcady sct on
lcaving. So hc and Sugc did thcir busincss to gct cath Row startcd up. And
at that timc, Snoop was ovcr thcrc with us! So Snoop couldnt wait around
until wc linishcd putting togcthcr my album, so Varrcn G. took him ovcr
thcrc to cath Row, and thats what startcd thc wholc thing. Thcrc was
bccl bctwccn both sidcs lor months and months and months, and wc lclt
likc, , Snoop was around us . And wc lclt likc thcy
took our wholc sound and our wholc csscncc. ! mcan, il you listcn to Abovc
thc Laws , r. rcs sounds just likc itcxccpt
was linishcd bclorc .
- -
- - -
-
8ccausc at thc cnd ol thc day wcrc all grown mcn. Mc and Snoop wcrc
lricnds back thcn. ! mcan way bclorc any ol our albums took oll rcal big,
wc wcrc all lricnds. Vc all uscd to go to thosc studios in Torrancc whcrc
onovan was. ! rcmcmbcr all ol thcm hanging out with usVarrcn G.,
Natc ogg, Snoop . . . ! was hanging around onc ol Snoops lricnds lrom
Long 8cach namcd Hall cad, and Hall cad uscd to comc to thc studio
KKAN
99
that wc had down thc strcct in Clarcmont. So Snoop shot a kitc to mc, and
! shot a kitc right back, and thcn wc hookcd up and wc said, Vcrc gonna
squash this shit. You know, ! was a lan. At thc samc timc wc wcrc bccling
with thcm, ! still likcd thcir music. And at thc samc timc thcy wcrc bccl
ing with mc, thcy still likcd my music. That was thc convcrsation bctwccn
Snoop and !. So wc squashcd thc bccl and hc said, !d likc you to sing on
a couplc ol things. So ! did, and things just got comlortablc bctwccn us
and hc startcd coming back around. And thosc rccords arc classic, too, and
it turncd out that two grownass mcn, Snoop and KokancCalvin and
Jcrryrcally had rcspcct lor cach othcr.
- - -
-- -- -
Vcll, its plain and simplc. Just listcn to thc radio. As tcchnology was ushcrcd
in, thc music startcd to changc. !l you look at thc music lrom thc cightics
or thc ninctics, thcrc was substancc to that music, thcy wcrc talking about
socially conscious things. From Public ncmy to XClan . . . vcn whcn
NVA was saying, Fuck thc Policc, thcrc was a rcason bchind it. cmo
graphically spcaking, thosc rccords wcrc morc than just lun, thcy wcrc a part
ol our livcs, our cvcryday strugglcs. And todays hiphop docsnt havc any ol
that anymorc. Pcoplc today would rathcr dancc, and thcrcs nothing wrong
with that, but today, in this gcncration, thcy dont cvcn incorporatc rcal
instrumcntation into thc music anymorc. Thcrc uscd to bc a substancc that
madc black radio black radio. Today thcrcs rcally no black radio. And you
cant knock whats sclling right now, but !m lrom an cra whcrc musician
ship was somcthing to bc rcspcctcd, and thcy madc music that hclpcd pcoplc
and madc thcir livcs bcttcr. Thcrc wcrc guys likc Gil ScottHcron, and cvcn
Marvin Gayc, to somc dcgrcc . . . You dont scc !ndia.Aric gct playcd morc
than Lady Gaga, and !m not knocking hcr hustlc at all, but comc on . . . !
mcan, you turn on thc radio and you hcar this music and you know thcrcs
a pcrson dccp down insidc thcrc whos bccn passionatc about music, yct this
wholc music gamc is in thc Twilight Zonc right about now.

1. - (1991) |as Vho Am !:|

2. (1994)
CHAPTR TVL\
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3. (1999)
4. - (2002) |w/ Gcntry|
5. (2004)
6. (2005)
7. (2006)
8. (2006)
9. (2006) |as thc Hood Mob|
10. (2008) |w/ Rainc N Lanc|
11. (2010)
101

K
ool Kcith, Ccd G, TR Lovc, and Moc Lovc cstablishcd thc
scminal hiphop group thc Ultramagnctic MCs in 1984. Although
thcir lirst singlc was 1985s To Givc You Lovc, it was thc clas
sic 1986 singlc go Trippin that madc thcm stars. Thc group rclcascd
two morc singlcs, Travcling at thc Spccd ol Thought b/w MCs Ultra
and Funky b/w Mcntally Mad, bclorc linally rclcasing thcir critically
acclaimcd dcbut album in 1988. Thc album, widcly con
sidcrcd a classic, was signilicant bccausc ol Ccd Gs progrcssivc production
as it was onc ol thc lirst utilizations ol choppcd samplcs. (This mcans
that samplcs wcrc rcarrangcd and rccditcd rathcr than simply loopcd.) Thc
group thcn disappcarcd lrom thc sccnc lor a whilc bclorc rcturning in 1992
with thcir sophomorc album . uc largcly to a dramatic
changc in production sound, rcactions to thc album wcrc mixcd. Howcvcr,
a 8catmincrz rcmix ol thc song Poppa Largc would provc to bc anothcr
hit lor thc Ultramagnctic MCs. Thc groups third studio album,
-, would provc to bc as cutting cdgc as its prcdcccssors.
Altcr -, thc Ultramagnctic MCs disbandcd, and
Kool Kcith wcnt solo. nc ol hiphops most unprcdictablc and ground
brcaking artists, hc has sincc rccordcd morc than 40 albumsmany ol
which wcrc conccpt albumsundcr a varicty ol aliascs. His 1995 album
-, rccordcd undcr thc alias r. ctagon, rcmains thc
most commcrcial ol thcsc rclcascs. Kool Kcith is also known as thc voicc
on thc Prodigys 1997 hit dancc singlc Smack My 8itch Up. Thc prolilic

CHAPTR TH!RTN
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cmccc has madc collaborativc albums with thc likcs ol !cc T and Tim og,
and rcunitcd with thc Ultramagnctic MCs lor thc 2007 rcunion album
- . Notablc albums rccordcd by Kool Kcith includc
(1996), -- (1999), and (2007).
-
Thc lirst thing ! think about whcn ! think ol hiphop is mc. 8ut you know,
thcrc arc dillcrcnt typcs ol hiphop. !ts hard to think ol hiphop now.
Today, thcy call commcrcial music hiphop. Thcy call pop music hiphop.
Thcn youvc got original hiphop. Youvc got thc original uptown 8ronx
hiphop likc Grandmastcr Flash and Kurtis 8low. Thcn youvc got Run
MC hiphop, Vhodini . . . Right now thcy claim that M.!.A. is hiphop.
Youvc got turntablc hiphop and lat bcats hiphop. !m conluscd right now
rcgarding what is rcally hiphop. !ts wcird.
- -- --
-- - - - - -
- -
Thc currcnt hiphop sccnc is stuck. Thcyrc mostly rhyming about wcalth
right now. vcrybodys rhyming about what thcy havc, what thcy own. Vc
sccm to bc stuck in that gcnrc ol thc music right now, and wcvc bccn sccing
this typc ol hiphop lor thc last 10 ycars. You know, its cool to rap about
moncy, but altcr a whilc, it bccomcs monotonous. That sccms to bc thc sub
jcct thats attracting cvcrybody right now. You know, thats why ! likc a group
likc thc 8lack ycd Pcas. Thcy uscd to opcn up lor mc at shows. ! think
will.i.am is so humblc. !vc known thc wholc group sincc way bclorc thcy had
Fcrgic, and thcyvc rcmaincd truc to thcmsclvcs throughout all ol this. Thcy
camc out and did what thcy arc doing, and ! think pcoplc probably doubtcd
it lor a minutc, but thcy actually brokc through, and !m happy lor thcm.
Thcyrc onc ol thc only groups out thcrc that arc basically antistcrcotypical
rap. Thcyrc cool bccausc thcyrc not saying, ! murdcrcd your mom, !ll run
up in your housc, !ll kill thc policc . . . Altcr a whilc ol hcaring that typc ol
stull, a group likc thc 8lack ycd Pcas bccomcs a rclrcshingly wclcomc thing
to thc car. !d rathcr listcn to somconc likc thcm bccausc ! lccl likc thcyrc a
rclicl lrom thc normal tircd story. You know, that ! grcw up in thc strccts,
lilc is hard stull. Altcr a whilc, all ol that grows monotonous. vcrybody
grcw up in thc strccts. ! grcw up in thc strccts. ! grcw up in thc ghctto. v
crybody livcd in thc projccts. vcrybody livcd around crackhcads and drug
KL K!TH
103
dcalcrs. Altcr a whilc, hcaring all ol that gcts old. Right now thcrc arc 50
million groups out thcrc, all tclling that samc old tircd story.
-- - - - -
- - - -
! do, bccausc !m a vcry innovativc guy. ! crcatc music in a dillcrcnt way. !
stay ahcad ol thc gamc. ! makc music that is so lar ahcad ol thc timcs . . .
- -
! dont lccl that ! havc to listcn to that typc ol stull. ! dont havc to bank
my wholc lilc on that. ! havc a dillcrcnt stylc ol my own. Somc rappcrs havc
thcir own nichc, and !m thanklul to say that !m onc ol thcm.
-- - -
- -- - - - -
-
! did a lot ol solo albums. ! did a lot ol albums that wcrc basically albums
ol my own, and thcn ! got caught up in a lot ol conccpt albums that pcoplc
wcrc kind ol into.
- - ---
! likc to do shows and comc out and mcct thc lans. ! travcl around thc
world and mcct my lans. ! dont try to livc through thc !ntcrnct likc a lot
ol thc artists do today to try and rclatc to thcir lans. ! dont do all ol that.
! dont hidc bchind thc computcr. ! think !m a morc acccssiblc artist than
a lot ol othcrs arc. ! try to travcl and go around and shakc hands with pco
plcsay hi and sit down and talk with pcoplc. ! try to bc a rcal pcrson lor
my lans. ! want thcm to say, You know, hc camc to my city and hc shook
my hand and talkcd to mc about this song or that. ! travcl all thc timc.
- - -
My londcst mcmorics arc doing shows and discovcring pcoplc thcrc that
! would ncvcr havc cxpcctcd. You know, Trcnt Rcznor has comc to my
show. !ts thc pcoplc that you would ncvcr think would know you. My
londcst mcmorics includc things likc touring with rock bands that arc com
plctcly scparatc lrom hiphop, guys ! would ncvcr think would know mc.
You know, sitting around with guys likc avc Grohl or Anthony Kcidis
and thc Rcd Hot Chili Pcppcrs. !ts crazy to lcarn that thcsc pcoplc havc
listcncd to my music.
CHAPTR TH!RTN
104
- ---
- --
! rccord a lot ol songs. My wholc thing is that !vc givcn so much music to
thc world that thcrcs a timc ! nccd my music just lor myscll. !vc sacriliccd
myscll, cut my skin and givcn my own blood, and givcn pcoplc so much
music. ! did a lot ol projccts lor myscll, but also lor my audicncc. ! cnjoycd
making thosc projccts, but somctimcs ! savc somc ol thc music lor myscll,
music that is lrcc, that isnt conlincd or rcstrictcd to any ccrtain subjcct or
gcnrc. !vc madc a lot ol songs that ! kncw ! would ncvcr rclcasc. ! just did
thosc lor myscll. Thosc songs arc a spccial trcasurc lor my own car, whcrc !
can rhymc thc way ! want to rhymc to thc kinds ol bcats that ! want to makc.
-
- -
Vhcn you listcn to thc music industry today, cvcrybody has a standard
sound that thcy conlorm to. Thcy all usc thc basic sound and structurc that
radio looks lor. Vhcn you turn on thc radio, all ol thc bcats and all ol thc
choruscs sound thc samc. ! pick out somc bcats lrom produccrs, but a lot
ol produccrs arc just so sct in thcir ways and happy with thcir own produc
tion stylcs that thcy dont rcally locus on thc artists. Thcy just makc gcncric
bcats that will lit anyonc. Thc bcats thcy show mc arc thc samc oncs that
thcyrc going to show thc ncxt rappcr or singcr. Anyonc can usc it. Thcy
dont dcsign thcir bcats cxclusivcly lor thc artist. So thcrc arc timcs whcn !
likc to makc uniquc tracks lor myscll that bcttcr lit thc intcnsity ol thc story
!m trying to tcll. And cvcrything ! do is distinctivc and dillcrcnt. Thcrc arc
a lcw produccrs out thcrc who makc distinctivc cuttingcdgc music, pcoplc
likc thc Ncptuncs and Timbaland. ! think a lot ol produccrs arc stuck in
a timc warp in tcrms ol production. A lot ol produccrs arc stuck in thc
sampling stull, which is cool. 8ut lor mc, thc sampling thing is old. Vc
did that with Ultramagnctic a long timc ago, but !vc sincc jumpcd thc gun
and startcd trying to makc ncw tracks and crcating somcthing dillcrcnt.
Vhy should ! go out and stcal othcr pcoplcs music and rap on tracks that
wcrc madc by othcr pcoplc: Vhy should ! pay somc guy on thc publish
ing lor somc song that hc madc a long timc ago whcn thcrc arc millions
ol kcyboards and sounds out thcrc that ! can usc: ! try to makc music that
actually lits thc song that !m making. ! havc a darkcr sidc than most rap
pcrs, so ! try to makc music thats as intcnsc as thc story !m tclling. !m
KL K!TH
105
likc Camco whcn thcy camc out. Thcy had thcir own sound. Slavc had
thcir own sound. Thosc groups didnt havc a bunch ol dillcrcnt produccrs
producing rccords lor thcm. 8arry Vhitc didnt havc twcnty produccrs.
Thc Gap 8and didnt havc twcnty produccrs.
-- - - - - -
Thcyrc just using thc samc kcyboard thc ncxt guy is using. vcryoncs got
thc samc band structurc. !vc got a kcyboard playcr, !vc got a drummcr
. . . Pcoplc arc scarcd to hit a ccrtain notc. vcryonc is scarcd to makc
a ccrtain typc ol rccord. ! pcrsonally gct oll on making somcthing brand
ncw that ! cant cvcn undcrstand myscll. You know, This shit is going to
bc hot in 2020. ! gct oll on making rccords that sound likc thcyrc lrom
thc ycar 2030.

1. (1988) |as Ultramagnctic MCs|

2. (1992) |as Ultramagnctic MCs|
3. - (1993) |as Ultramagnctic MCs|
4. - - (1994) |as Ultramagnctic MCs|
5. (1995)
6. (1996)
7. - (1996) |w/ Godlathcr on|
8. - (1996) |as Ultramagnctic MCs|
9. (1996) |as Ultramagnctic MCs|
10. - (1996) |as r. ctagon|
11. - (1996) |as r. ctagon|
12. (1996) |as Ultra|
13. - (1997) |as Ultramagnctic MCs|
14. (1998) |as Ultramagnctic MCs|
15. - - (1999) |as r. ooom|
16. -- (1999)
17. (2000)
18. (2000)
19. |as Analog 8rothcrs|
20. -- - (2001) |w/ Motion Man|
21. - (2001)
CHAPTR TH!RTN
106
22. (2002) |w/ H 8omb and Marc Livc|
23. - (2003)
24. - - (2004) |w/ Kutmasta Kurt|
25. (2004)
26. (2004) |w/ Jacky Jaspcr and Marc Livc|
27. - (2004)
28. (2005)
29. (2005)
30. (2005)
31. . (2006)
32. (2006) |w/ TMC3|
33. (2006) |as Randoll Lilt with Kool Kcith|
34. - (2006)
35. (2006)
36. (2006)
37. (2007) |as r. ctagon|
38. - (2007) |as Ultramagnctic MCs|
39. - - (2007)
40. (2007)
41. (2008)
42. (2008) |w/ H 8omb|
43. (2008) |as Randoll Lilt with Kool Kcith|
44. (2008)
45. - - (2009)
46. -- (2009) |w/ cnis clt and Ycti 8cats|
47. - -- (2009)
48. (2009) |w/ Tim og|
49. - (2009) |w/ 5471|
107

!
n thc carly 1980s, thrcc portly cmcccs (Princc Markic cc, Kool Rock
Ski, and 8ull Lovc) cstablishcd thc lcgcndary hiphop group thc Fat
8oys. !n 1984, thc Fat 8oys rclcascd thcir sclltitlcd dcbut album,
which is widcly considcrcd to bc a classic LP. Riding on thc succcss ol
thc singlc Fat 8oys, which rcmaincd in thc Top 15 lor an imprcssivc 18
wccks, thc album ultimatcly wcnt gold. This is signilicant as it was onc ol
thc carlicst hiphop albums to accomplish this lcat. Thc lollowing ycar,
thc Fat 8oys bccamc onc ol thc vcry lirst hiphop acts to appcar in a major
motion picturc (- ). Thc Fat 8oys arc also notablc lor bcing
onc ol thc lirst hiphop groups to land a numbcr ol lucrativc cndorscmcnt
dcals, including Mountain cw, Pcpsi, Sbarro, and Swatch. That samc
ycar, thc Fat 8oys joincd thc likcs ol U2, RunMC, Pctc Townshcnd,
Ringo Starr, 8rucc Springstccn, and many othcrs lor thc antiaparthcid
singlc Sun City. Along with LL Cool J, RunMC, and Vhodini, thc
Fat 8oys thcn cmbarkcd on thc lirst major hiphop tour, Thc Swatch Frcsh
Fcst. Thc group bccamc so popular at thc timc that anothcr group rclcascd
an album undcr thc namc thc Skinny 8oys in thc hopcs ol cmulating thcir
succcss.
Thc Fat 8oys subscqucntly rclcascd two morc gold albums,
- and , bclorc brcaking out with thc 1987 plati
num rclcasc -. This album spawncd thc Top 10 singlc Vipcout,
which lcaturcd thc 8cach 8oys singing backup vocals. That samc ycar, thc
group starrcd in thcir sccond major motion picturc, --. uring

CHAPTR FURTN
108
this pcriod, thc Fat 8oys also rclcascd a hits collcction cntitlcd -
-, bccoming thc lirst hiphop group to rclcasc a grcatcst
hits collcction. !n 1988, thc Fat 8oys scorcd anothcr hit with thcir covcr
ol Chubby Chcckcrs tunc Thc Twist, lcaturing Chcckcr himscll singing
backup vocals.
!n 1990, Princc Markic cc lclt thc group to pursuc othcr intcrcsts.
Thc two rcmaining mcmbcrs would thcn rccord onc morc Fat 8oys album,
, bclorc disbanding in 1991. Sadly, 8ull Lovc passcd away in
1995 at thc agc ol 28, wcighing ncarly 450 pounds.
!n 2009, a skinnicr Kool Rock Ski, now simply known as Kool Rock,
rccmcrgcd with an P titlcd . Kool Rock and Princc Markic
cc arc also planning a Fat 8oys rcunion album.
-
Hiphop is not just thc music, although thats usually what pcoplc think ol.
!ts rcally a culturc: thc clothing, thc stylc, thc vibc. As you can scc, most
ol thc commcrcials that arc donc today arc crcatcd around thc hiphop
gcncration. Thc rock and roll gcncration is prctty much gonc, and now
wcvc movcd on to thc hiphop gcncration. ncc thc hiphop gcncration
camc in, pcoplc had no choicc but to go with thc llow. Most ol thc pcoplc
who wcrc living in thc rock and roll gcncration havc no idca that thcyrc
living in a hiphop gcncration. |Laughs.| Thcyrc still caught up in thc past.
Thc samc way that rock and roll changcd thc coursc ol Amcrica, hiphop
changcd thc coursc ol Amcrica. 8arack bama and 8ill Clinton arc pcrlcct
cxamplcs ol what thc hiphop gcncration is all about, it was our gcncration
that votcd thcm into ollicc.
- - -
-- -
!t is amazing, but ! always kncw thc day would comc. ! dont want to sound
likc a prophct or somcthing, but ! kncw it was going to happcn onc day.
nc day soon, not onc day altcr ! lcavc this carth, but onc day -. And it
was timc lor a changc anywaynot lor a changc ol color, but a changc in
thc way pcoplc act toward onc anothcrcspccially as raccs. Vhcn yourc
walking down thc strcct, as a black man, pcoplc ol othcr raccs stop and kind
ol starc at you likc yourc an alicn or somcthing. |Laughs again.| ! think
it was timc lor a changc in rcgards to thc way wc look and act toward onc
KL RCK SK!
109
anothcr. And ! think thats what bama mcant whcn hc said it was timc
lor a changc.
- - -
-
Vc grcw up in thc samc blocks. ! mct Mark |Moralcs| lirst, and mc and
Mark bccamc bcst lricnds. Thcn 8ull movcd in around thc block whcn
Mark and ! wcrc in our prctccns. Thcn mc and 8ull bccamc closc, and
wc wcnt lrom junior high to high school togcthcr. Mc and 8ull wcnt to
onc high school, and Mark wcnt to anothcr. vcr timc, wc rcally got into
lootball. vcrything wc did was about lootball, wc atc, drank, and slcpt
lootball. uring this timc wc wcrc always rapping, so whcn our lootball
plans lcll through . . . Vc wcrc doing talcnt shows and littlc partics hcrc
and thcrc. Vc hcard about this talcnt contcst, and wc cntcrcd it. Vc won
thc day wc cntcrcd, and thcn wc won thc scmilinals. Thcn thc linals wcrc
hcld thc ncxt wcck, and wc won thc linals. Thc guy who put thc contcst
togcthcr was Charlic Stctlcr, who thcn bccamc our managcr.
- -
-
-
|Chucklcs.| Vc wcrc young back thcn, and wc wcrc likc, Lcts go lor thc
stcrco cquipmcnt! Vc wcrc kind ol lcd in thc right dircction. You dont
want to win thc stcrco cquipmcnt, you want that rccord contract. Vc wcrc
just too young to know any bcttcr.
- -
- -
- - -
- - -
-
No. Vc kind ol lookcd at it likc RunMC, Kurtis 8low, LL Cool J, thc
8castic 8oys, and Ncw dition wcrc all in thc movic, too, so it couldnt bc
too bad. Thcrc wcrc so many pcoplc that wc camc up with that wc didnt
rcally look at it that way. Vc didnt look at it that way until altcr -
- camc out. |Laughs.| ncc wc saw thc linishcd cut, wc wcrc likc, Vow,
this is not rcally a hiphop movic. 8ut ! think that just shows how much
wc cxtcndcd our horizons as lar as thc music. Vc wcrc no longcr just a
CHAPTR FURTN
110
hiphop group or a rap act. Vc wcrc gctting worldwidc rccognition. As lar
as thc carly days pcoplc not wanting to rccord or makc movics, thats cool,
but lcts lacc it: cvcryonc docs this to makc moncy. l coursc you lovc thc
music, but thc lovc kind ol lcavcs you altcr a whilc. You do it lor lovc, dont
gct mc wrong, but oncc that moncy comcs into play, you still want to scc
that moncy bcing gcncratcd and going into your pockct. Pcoplc havc bccn
rapping about moncy lor a long timc. ! mcan, you look at 8ig 8ank Hank
lrom thc Sugarhill Gang, and hc was rapping about moncy and how hc had
all thcsc cars . . . Hc didnt actually havc thcsc things, but hc was rapping
in thc hopcs that onc day hc might gct thcm.
- --- -

nc day yourc just growing up, walking thc strccts with Mark and 8ull,
with nothing in your pockcts. You know, il youvc got 810 in your pockct
yourc doing prctty good. Thcn thc ncxt wcck youvc got 82,000 in your
pockct, and thcn that grows into 860 or 870,000. And this is ovcrnight,
and yourc likc, what thc hcll: Thc pcoplc around you changc, but wc ncvcr
changcd. Vc wcrc thc samc guys who worc jcans and sncakcrs. Vc didnt
run out and buy 84,000 gator boots and stull likc that. l coursc yourc
gonna buy a car and takc carc ol your lamily, bccausc thats thc kind ol
background wc camc lrom, you takc carc ol your lamily lirst, and you hclp
your lricnds out. 8ut thcn altcr a whilc, your lricnds start to look at you
kind ol dillcrcntly. You changcd, man, you dont comc around and hang
out no morc. Vcll, you know, ! dont wanna havc a damn .45 to my hcad
at two oclock in thc morning |laughs| with somconc wanting to blow out
my brains to takc my moncy. Thats why ! dont hang out on thc old block
anymorc. 8ut you dont lorgct about thc guys lrom thc old block, you just
kind ol pick thcm up and takc thcm somcwhcrc clsc to hang out.
- - -
-
Stcvcn \an Zandt approachcd our managcr with thc idca. Hc was a lan ol
ours, and onc thing that still bugs mc out is that hc said, 8rucc Spring
stccn is a big lan ol you guys music. ! was likc, - Hc
was likc, Ycah, 8rucc lovcs you guys. And Michacl Jackson said thc samc
thing to us whcn wc mct him at thc 1986 Grammys. So wc wcnt to do thc
Sun City thing, and it was latc at night. Vc shot thc vidco lrom about
KL RCK SK!
111
livc oclock in thc altcrnoon until about six in thc morning. Mcllc Mcl
was thcrc. ! saw 8rucc Springstccn just sitting on thc curb by thc strcct.
! walkcd by him and said, How arc you doing: And hc said, h, hcy,
how arc you doing, man: And wc startcd talking! |Laughs.| ! mcan, hcrcs
a guy whos coming oll just sclling damn ncar 30 million rccords, and hc
was just rcally down to carth. Hc was just onc ol thc guys. So wc did thc
projcct, and wc had a lot ol lun doing it. !t was a notch in our bclt, and it
was lor a good causc, which was lighting aparthcid.
Vc also did thc Mandcla conccrt at Vcmblcy Stadium in 1988. !t was
us and SaltNPcpa rcprcscnting thc hiphop community.
- - - -
Just sitting up latc at night with 8ull, just talking. Vc would just talk
about how wc could gct bcttcr at what wc do, and wc talkcd a lot about
whcrc wc camc lrom. A lot ol pcoplc think our succcss was an ovcrnight
thing, but it was a lot ol hard work to gct to whcrc wc wcrc at. Vc just
sat thcrc, and wc couldnt rcally bclicvc what was happcning at thc timc.
8ull and ! would just bc sitting thcrc talking, and thcn Mark would bust
through thc door. Vc would just sit thcrc until lour or livc in thc morn
ing, and 8ull would bc lalling aslccp. Thcn wc would movc lrom 8ulls
room to my room, and Mark and ! would just sit thcrc and talk. !t was a
spccial timc, just hanging out with thc lricnds that ! had grown up with.
Vc wcrc just bugging out and having lun, bccausc altcr a whilc, it got to
thc point whcrc wc couldnt cvcn walk out on thc strccts anymorc. You
couldnt just go to thc mall or takc a lcmalc acquaintancc out to dinncr,
bccausc you would havc a linc ol pcoplc standing at your dinncr tablc
waiting lor an autograph. ! mcan, you apprcciatc that thcy likc your work,
but whcn yourc that young, that docsnt rcally rcgistcr in your hcad. You
just want to bc lclt alonc.
- - -
-
--
To bc honcst with you, ! didnt miss it at all. ! was always onc ol thc guys. !
could just hang out with any group and lit in with thcm. That was mc. You
could ask anyonc who knows mc, and thcyd tcll you that. And that was all
thrcc ol us, rcally. 8ut anyonc who knows mc would bc likc, Thats just
Kool Rock. Pcoplc walk up to mc and ask mc qucstions and ! just talk with
CHAPTR FURTN
112
thcm and answcr thcm. Thcn whcn thcy lcavc, thcyll say, Hcs a cool cat.
8ut ! dont rcally nccd all thc lanlarc and accoladcs that comc with bcing
a big star. Somctimcs pcoplc dont know how to makc that transition, but
!vc lound no problcm with it.
- -- -
- -
!l wc would havc stoppcd altcr thc 8cach 8oys song, wc would havc bccn
satislicd with it. And this is not to takc anything away lrom Chubby
Chcckcr, but as lar as us bcing a hiphop act, ! think wc should havc
stoppcd altcr thc 8cach 8oys song. 8ut, ol coursc, our rccord company and
managcmcnt, altcr sccing thc popularity ol that lirst song, wantcd to kccp
on with thc novclty ol tcaming us up with an old group or solo act.
! think wc mct thc 8cach 8oys around 1986 on thc sct ol --.
Thcy wcrc in thc last part ol thc movic. ur managcmcnt had said, Thc
8cach 8oys havc agrccd to do a camco in thc movic. Vc wcrc likc, kay,
thats cool, but who thc hcll arc thc 8cach 8oys: |Chucklcs.| ! mcan, wc
didnt grow up listcning to that music. So thcy camc to thc sct and did thcir
part. And thcy kcpt popping up cvcrywhcrc wc wcnt, wc did this T\ show
lor isncy, and thcy wcrc thcrc at thc samc timc. ur road managcr sug
gcstcd that it might bc nicc to do a rccord togcthcr, not ncccssarily to put
out, but just to scc how it sounds. 8ut our managcr was likc, Vcrc not
going to do a song just to scc how it sounds. Vcrc going to do a song and
put it out. So Vipcout camc out, and it got acccptcd. !t wcnt ovcr vcry
wcll, and ! think it pcakcd at numbcr lour on thc Top 100. Thc song wcnt
platinumplus. So wc wcrc likc, okay, wcll just lcavc it at that. RunMC
had donc Valk This Vay, so this will bc okay. 8ut thcn thcy wcrc likc,
Lcts bring in Chubby Chcckcr ncxt! |Laughs.|
! havc nothing against thc rccord companics and thc managcrs lor
doing what thcy do, bccausc thats thcir job. And wc had onc ol thc bcst
managcrs in thc music industry at that timc. Charlic Stctlcr could prctty
much havc sold sand to a bcach! Hc was that good. 8ut at thc samc timc,
hc was taking us down this road whcrc wc had no chancc ol gctting back
to our corc audicncc. And by thc timc wc wantcd to gct back to our corc
audicncc, thcy had prctty much driltcd on to somcbody clsc. NVA was
coming out, Public ncmy was doing thcir thing. !t was kind ol likc thc
Fat 8oys got pushcd back to thc sidc.
KL RCK SK!
113
- -
- -
Thc album was rushcd. Vc got a boatload ol moncy put in our pockct. Vc
had just comc oll thc brcakupMark had just lclt thc group. nc night
8ull camc to my housc and said, Somconc wants to invcst in us to put
out a ncw album. ! said, Vhat company: And hc said, No, its indc
pcndcnt. ! said, Cool, ! could go indcpcndcnt. Thcn wc wont havc an
ovcrhcad or anyonc looking ovcr our shouldcr. So thc ncxt day, 8ull brings
mc this big cnvclopc with stacks and stacks ol hundrcds in it. Hc was likc,
Yo, thats lor you. !m likc, Vhat is this lor: And hc says, Vcvc got to
do an album. Arc you scrious: Vhcrc arc thc contracts: |Laughs again.|
And hc was likc, ont worry about it, ! got it. So !m likc, whatcvcr.
So wc had no dircction on thc album. Vc wcrc running around likc
chickcns with our hcads cut oll. ! mcan, wc had dircction. 8ull was ovcr
hcrc buying cvcry kind ol car hc could lind, and ! was ovcr hcrc just dating
dillcrcnt girls . . . !t was all chaos. So by thc timc wc got into thc studio,
thats how thc sound waschaos. Thcrc was nothing structurcd. And to
this day, that album still pisscs mc oll bccausc !m likc, man, it could havc
bccn so much bcttcr. Vc should havc takcn advantagc ol thc opportunity
that wc had, but wc didnt. !nstcad wc lollygaggcd and just thrcw songs
togcthcr in onc hour. Vc would just go in thcrc and say somc shit and thcn
it was, kay, scc you tomorrow. |Chucklcs.| Vc had had moncy bclorc,
but wc had ncvcr had moncy and this kind ol lrccdom whcrc no onc was
tclling us what to do with it. Now it was bcing pushcd at us and wc would
say shit likc, !m gonna go buy mc a Mcrccdcs tomorrow! Thats how
it was, and thats why thc album camc out thc way that it did. !t was rcal
hallasscd. ! mcan, it chartcd at likc numbcr cightyonc on thc charts with
absolutcly no promotion.
!t was lun making that album, but again thcrc was no structurc and wc
had no managcmcnt. Vc wcrc just managing oursclvcs.
- - -
-
Vc would sit down and say, wcrc not going to sound likc thc Fat 8oys
anymorc. Lcts sound likc NVA or !cc Cubc! So wc wcrc rapping songs in
a way that pcoplc had ncvcr hcard us bclorc. vcryonc who had grown up
a Fat 8oys lan was likc, Vhat happcncd: Vhy arc you guys so hard now:
CHAPTR FURTN
114
First ol all, wc callcd thc album and that was hard cnough.
Vhy arc you moving away lrom what you do: At thc samc timc, wc
to gct away lrom what wc had donc prcviously. Vc couldnt go into thc
studio at that timc and rap about givc mc somc hot macaroni and chccsc.
Vc had to try somcthing dillcrcnt, but wc could havc donc somcthing bct
tcr than what wc did. 8ut, you know, you livc and you lcarn.
-- -
8ull was thc hcart ol thc group. A lot ol timcs thcy madc mc thc captain
as lar as putting things into placc and sitting down with thc managcr, but
whcn it camc down to who thc lans wantcd to scc, it was 8ull. Hc was just
an ordinary roundthcway guy. Hc lovcd thc lincr things in lilc, but at
thc samc timc, hc didnt turn his nosc up at pcoplc. Pcoplc kncw that hc
was down to carth. Hc was my bcst lricnd. Mark is my bcst lricnd, too, but
8ull and ! just had this camaradcric. Vc just kncw what thc othcr onc was
going to say or think ncxt. ncc hc passcd, it just kind ol mcsscd mc up. !
mcan, wc grcw up togcthcr. Thcrc wcrc pcriods whcrc wc would go thrcc
or lour months and not scc cach othcr maybc onc day. Vc would spcnd
months togcthcr on tour, and thcn wcd gct oll thc planc and gct into thc
limousinc and go homc. Vithin an hour, this guy would bc at my housc! !d
bc likc, Vhat arc you doing hcrc: ! just saw you lor thrcc months straight.
! dont want to scc you anymorc. |Laughs.| Hcd say, Lcts hang out, and
!d say, All right, lcts go. Hc was just all about having lun, and kccping
thc pcoplc around him laughing.
- - -
- - -
-
!t was a lot quickcr. !nstcad ol working on a lortycighttrack board, you
just opcn a laptop and cvcrything is right thcrc. vcrything was rcally
quick. Vhcn wc did this projcct, wc did it a dillcrcnt way this timc. Vc
didnt just go in thcrc and complctc onc song. Vc did likc cight songs in
onc day! Thc proccss has changcd. This timc ! thought ol witticr things to
say, too. !nstcad ol just going in and saying anything, my produccr told mc
! had to stcp it up. Hc said, You got kids out hcrc who arc likc cightccn
ycars old who will cat your ass up! You havc to stcp up your lyrics. Vc
conccntratcd morc, and wc strippcd thc bcats down to makc it sound morc
hiphop. Lcts makc it morc strcct, lcts makc it morc Ncw York. !ts just
KL RCK SK!
115
a purc Ncw York sound, and a lot ol Js told mc, This is just raw. Vc
did do somc autotunc stull bccausc wc wantcd to kccp up with thc timcs,
but ! can scc now that pcoplc arc starting to back away lrom autotunc sincc
JayZ droppcd ..A. (cath ol Autotunc).
- -- - - -
-- -
-
! did a lot ol writing ovcr thc ycars. You know whats wcird: ! do a lot ol
battlc rhyming, lor somc odd rcason. ! writc a lot ol battlc rhymcs. !ts
likc, wcll, who thc hcll am ! going to battlc: |Chucklcs.| 8ut youvc got to
kccp yourscll rclcvant. Thcrc arc a lot ol strcct corncr cats out thcrc who
will put you in your placc, so youvc got to havc somcthing lor thcm. And
not just in thc strccts, but also in thc studio. Vhat il somcbody comcs into
thc studio and says somcthing subliminal about mc: Thcn !vc got to say
somcthing subliminal back. Thats just a part ol hiphop. Thats just thc
compctitivc aspcct ol hiphop. !ts not about somcbody trying to disrcspcct
you as a pcrson, its just a compctition. Thcy want that notch on thcir bclt.
Thcy want to say, Ycah, ! dcstroycd that cat lrom thc Fat 8oys! You dont
want to gct put into that catcgory. !vc just bccn a compctitor and !vc got
tcn bcttcr through thc ycars. !m taking thc cralt a lot morc scriously, and
!m loving what !m doing.

1. - (1984) |as thc Fat 8oys|

2. - (1985) |as thc Fat 8oys|
3. (1986) |as thc Fat 8oys|
4. - (1987) |as thc Fat 8oys|
5. - - (1987) |as thc Fat 8oys|
6. (1988) |as thc Fat 8oys|
7. (1989) |as thc Fat 8oys|
8. (1990) |as thc Fat 8oys|
9. (1997) |as thc Fat 8oys|
10. (2009)
116

L
ong !sland cmccc Kcith Murray bcgan battlc rhyming at thc agc
ol 13 undcr thc monikcr MC o amagc. Thc young Murray
won many battlcs, and cvcn lamously attcmptcd to battlc lcgcnd
ary cmccc 8ig addy Kanc. !n thc carly 1990s, Murray was introduccd
to PMs rick Scrmon, who instantly rccognizcd his potcntial and
cvcntually got him signcd to Jivc Rccords. Murray soon madc a thundcr
ous cntrancc into thc rap gamc whcn hc appcarcd on Scrmons 1993 singlc
Hostilc. Thc lollowing ycar Murray rclcascd his own dcbut album,
- - - . 8uoycd by two hit singlcsthc titlc
track and its lollowup Gct Liltcdthc album quickly wcnt gold.
!n 1996, Murray rclcascd his sophomorc cllort, . Thc criti
cally acclaimcd album rcachcd numbcr six on s HipHop/R&8
chart. Murray was thcn imprisoncd lor 33 months altcr bcing convictcd ol
scconddcgrcc assault. Murray has rcpcatcdly insistcd that hc was innoccnt,
and cclcbritics likc 8ritncy Spcars and LL Cool J camc to his dclcnsc. Mur
rays third album, - , would bc rclcascd in 1999 whilc thc
cmccc was still imprisoncd. Hc soon droppcd his lourth album, -
. Howcvcr, it was his lilth album,
that brought him back to thc public cyc.
!n addition to his work as a solo artist, Murray has also rccordcd al
bums with thc supcr groups cl Squad (with Scrmon and Rcdman) and
thc Undcrgodz (with Canibis). Hc has also appcarcd as a lcaturcd artist on

K!TH MURRAY
117
a numbcr ol hit singlcs, including LL Cool Js ! Shot Ya, 8oyz !! Mcns
\ibin, Mary J. 8ligcs 8c Happy, and Totals Cant You Scc.
-
Hiphop mcans a lot ol things to mc. Culturc, lilc, unity, youth, moncy,
communication, bringing dillcrcnt culturcs togcthcr, intclligcncc, lun
timcs, scriousncss, originality. Thosc things arc what hiphop mcans to mc.
- -

My unclc is thc original bboy TRoy. ! lirst bccamc awarc ol what hc was
doing in thc carly 1980s. That was whcn ! lirst bccamc awarc ol hiphop.
Hc uscd to walk around thc housc likc a rappin jack, all day, cvcrything hc
said was a rhymc. Any situation hc cncountcrcd, thcrc was a rhymc. Hc was
a truc bboy with thc Kangol and thc pcrmancntprcsscd Lcc jcans. Hc had
thc movcmcnt ol his hands, his hcad was moving, and hc just kncw how to
put words togcthcr. Hc ncvcr rcally wrotc rhymcs, but hc always rhymcd
and hc camc up with crcativc stull. This was intriguing to mc. ! was likc,
Yo, what is this: Hc said, All you havc to do is put words togcthcr that
makc scnsc and rhymc. Hc gavc mc my lirst hiphop tapc, it was
- - - - . Thcn hc gavc mc
thc Fatback 8and rccord. And lrom thcrc, ! just lcll in lovc with hiphop
music. ! just cmulatcd him and startcd putting my own rhymcs togcthcr. !
had my own stylc, though. That was onc thing hc taught mc: You dont
want to sound likc anyonc clsc. You havc to havc your own original llavor.


! had an unclc namcd 8orn Truc who was 8ig addy Kancs bodyguard.
Hc uscd to takc mc all ovcr 8rooklyn to all thc projccts, battling cvcrybody.
8attling, battling . . . This was thc kind ol sccnario whcrc you ncvcr said thc
samc rhymc twicc. You had a million rhymcs, and you wcrc always coming
oll thc top ol your hcad. That was what hiphop was.
Thcn my unclc invitcd mc to thc vidco shoot lor Long Livc thc Kanc.
!l you look at that vidco, you can scc mc. Thcrcs a guy with a sky bluc
hat on, and that was mc, but all you could scc was thc back ol my hoodic!
|Laughs.| 8cing thcrc with such highcalibcr talcnt madc mc rcalizc that
CHAPTR F!FTN
118
hcy, ! was in thc samc cyphcr as 8ig addy Kanc! ! rcalizcd that ! could do
this on a prolcssional lcvcl.
! had ncvcr rcally hung around Kanc. ! was at thc housc with him onc
timc, and thcn onc timc wc wcrc on 42nd Strcctthc cuccdrinking
lortics and shit. And Kanc was likc, !m gonna tcll your unclc, and ! was
likc, No, dont do that! |Chucklcs.| Thcn ! was thcrc on his birthday.
Thcy had a conccrt at Nassau Coliscum with thc cntirc Juicc Crcw. So my
unclc 8orn brought my cousin and mc to thc show. ! was only thirtccn. !
ncvcr thought ! would bc thc ncxt gcncration ol what thcsc guys wcrc do
ing. 8ig addy Kanc rippcd it at thc show. You know, hc was rocking thc
llattop and thc lourlingcr rings. So latcr, wc wcrc all sitting at thc tablc
altcr thc show, and my unclc said, Yo, Kcith, ! got somcbody lor you to
battlc. Go gct cm! So ! wcnt to thc othcr cnd ol thc tablc and kickcd
thc rhymcs ! had, and thcn Kanc kickcd his. l coursc hc dominatcd thc
situation, bccausc hc was 8ig addy Kanc, at thc pcak ol his carccr. ! was
ncrvous and shy, but ! wasnt shy whcn it camc to rhyming. So ! just kickcd
a lcw vcrscs back and lorth with Kanc, and hc said, Yo, shorty, how old arc
you: ! said ! was thirtccn and hc said, Ycah, yourc gonna bc nicc. And
cvcr sincc thcn, ! just kcpt rhyming. ! ncvcr stoppcd. ! was just rclcntlcss.
!t wasnt rcally a battlc, though. ! just had thc opportunity to rhymc lor
thc grcatcst cmccc at thc timc, ncxt to Rakim. !t was a rcal translormation
lor mc, that day ! bccamc a rcal cmccc.
-
Thcrc havc bccn a lcw instanccs whcrc ! had to dominatc individuals, but
! dont rcally tanglc with niggas il ! can kccp lrom doing so. 8ut oncc in a
whilc !vc had to shut a nigga down with a lcw bars hcrc and thcrc. !m still
lcrocious at 35. !vc got a battlc mcntality, and !m rcady at any timc lor a
nigga to opcn his mouth so ! can makc an cxamplc out ol him.
77 -
-
!m lrom Long !sland, whcrc c La Soul, 8iz Markic, Public ncmy,
Rakim, PM, KSolo, and Princc Paul all comc lrom. ! livcd on Carlton
Avcnuc. ! kncw KSolo. Hc was oldcr than ! was, but hc uscd to comc to
my high school somctimcs. And ! had a lricnd namcd Mark who kncw
him. Thcn Solo startcd coming around us. My main man Vink kncw Solo,
so whcncvcr Solo would comc around, Vink would talk to him. Thcn onc
K!TH MURRAY
119
day ! lcarncd that rick Scrmon had movcd into my hood. KSolo camc
up to thc storc whcrc wc uscd to bc hustlcrs committing pctty crimcs, and
! said, Solo, takc mc to ricks housc. And hc said all right. Hc told mc
to mcct him thcrc at a ccrtain timc. ! wcnt to thc housc, Solo wcnt up and
knockcd on thc door, and answcrcd and said, Vhat up: And that was
thc lirst timc ! mct rick Scrmon, thc Grccnycd 8andit. ! was likc, h
shit, thats rick Scrmon. Thcn wc wcnt downstairs and ! startcd rcciting
my rhymcs lor him, and basically, ! ncvcr lclt that bascmcnt.
- - - -
- -

!t wasnt awkward lor mc at all. !t was actually bcttcr lor mc. Rcmcmbcr, !
wcnt to ricks housc. ! didnt know Parrish at all. ! didnt know asFX at
all. !t was just mc and rick hanging out cvcry day. Hc would tcll mc to comc
ovcr at a ccrtain timc. Hc livcd livc minutcs lrom mc. ! would go scll drugs
on thc corncr, run with L... |Murrays cliquc, thc Lcgion ol oom| and
causc havoc, and thcn go back to ricks housc. This was around thc timc !
got out ol jail and was going back to collcgc at Ncw York Tcch. ! was actually
doing my lirst ycar ol collcgc, but ! would comc homc and go to thc block.
nc timc ! was on thc tour bus and ! saw Parrish Smith and asFX, but
! didnt know thcm. Thcn thcy camc to ricks housc likc, Vhat up: And
thcn ! hcard that PM got into somc bullshit, and ! was actually in thc
bascmcnt whcn thc dctcctivcs camc to qucstion rick |about a possiblc hit
contract on Parrish Smith|. Thcy took to thc station, and ! was likc, Vhat
is this: So ! wcnt back to thc block. Thcn, thc ncxt thing ! kncw, thc wholc
PM thing blcw up. Thcn rick movcd to Atlanta, and ! didnt scc him
lor an cntirc ycar. Niggas on thc block wcrc likc, Vhat happcncd: ! thought
rick was gonna sign you: ! was likc, Arc you crazy: Just watch. Thcn,
altcr cvcrything blcw ovcr, rick camc back.
Parrish Smith actually tricd to sign Kcith Murray altcr wcnt to
Atlanta. ! kncw a guy namcd Alvin Toncy who uscd to bodyguard lor
PM. nc day Alvin Toncy and Parrish camc to my housc. Parrish was
likc, Arc wc gonna gct thcsc contracts signcd: And ! said, !m not sign
ing thcsc contracts. Thcn rick camc back and ! told him what happcncd.
And thcn wc rccordcd thc song Hostilc lor ricks album, and thc rcst
is history.
CHAPTR F!FTN
120
- - - - - - -
Hostilc is still thc joint. vcry night whcn ! pcrlorm, ! stcp out to that
song. |Starts rhyming| Kcith Murray, coming lrom thc North, South,
ast and lclt, rhymin to dcath . . .
- -
- - --

!ts a lricndly compctition. You know, thcsc niggas arc nicc! Thcyrc your
boys, but at thc samc timc you still battlc with thcm. Yourc still trying to
outdo cvcrything thcy do. At thc cnd ol thc day, wc makc cach othcr stcp
up thcir gamc. Vriting with a group is way casicr lor mc than writing by
myscll. First ol all, ! dont havc to writc as much, and thcn, ! dont havc
to think as hard. Thcy comc up with somcthing, thcn ! comc up with
somcthing, and ! play my part. !ts vcry cncouraging to bc rhyming ncxt to
Canibis or Rcdman or rick Scrmon. !t makcs mc stcp it up 100 pcrccnt.
That docsnt mcan !m wcakcr whcn ! do my solo thing, but its a wholc
dillcrcnt anglc.

-
! think thc lcar ol hiphop comcs lrom thc pcoplc who misundcrstand
thc artists who comc lrom thc strcct. Thcy lcar thc artists who spcak lrom
thcir hcarts. Thcyd rathcr scc thc artists who makc somc typc ol gimmicky
rccord to dull thc culturc ol hiphop lor thc sakc ol corporations making
moncy. !l ! makc a rccord whcrc ! comc on and !m scrcaming, thcy lcar
that. Thcy say, Vhys hc angry: Vhys hc so mad: !m not mad. Thats
just thc way ! am somctimcs. !m highstrung. Thats aggrcssion and cx
prcssion. Thcy lcar that. Thcy say, Hcs unprcdictablc. Hcs gonna do
somcthing crazy.
Rcal hiphop is thc raw csscncc ol thc strcct. Pcoplc dont want thc
strccts around thcm. Thcy turn thcir back on thc strccts now.
- -
! dont blamc anybody. ! lccl that hiphop had to cvolvc. vcry busincss
has its ups and downs. ! dont lccl that hiphop is dcad. ! cant say that this
pcrson killcd it or that pcrson killcd it. Hiphop is now worldwidc, and
now cvcrybodys gottcn ahold ol it, and thcyrc going to intcrprct it thc way
K!TH MURRAY
121
thcy want to intcrprct it and do it thc way thcy want to do it. Hiphop had
to risc to a dcgrcc to gct rccognizcd. Thc corporations shapc and mold and
dictatc what mainstrcam Amcrica wants to hcar. !ts dillcrcnt, but its still
hiphop. !ts a lact that cannot bc disputcd, just likc saying that all pcoplc
dcrivcd lrom black pcoplc. ! know what Nas mcant whcn hc said hiphop
is dcad, hc mcant hiphop as wc kncw it to bc purc and unadultcratcd is
dcad. Now cvcrybody wants to gct to thc mainstrcam, and !m not knock
ing thcm, bccausc ! want to go to thc mainstrcam.
- - --
- - -
-
Pcoplc havc short attcntion spans. Nowadays, il pcoplc havc to study somc
thing and takc thc timc to undcrstand it, thcy skip it. Thcyd rathcr hcar
somcthing that lccls good. Listcncrs today arc likc kids who dont want to
do thcir homcwork.

1. - - - (1994)
2. (1996)
3. |as cl Squad|
4. - (1999)
5. - - - (1999)
6. - (2003)
7. (2007)
8. (2009) |as thc Undcrgodz|
122

P
aradimc cmcrgcd on thc ctroit hiphop sccnc in 1991 with a
strcct album. Vhilc thc projcct only sold a lcw hundrcd copics,
it cstablishcd Paradimc as a licrcc and talcntcd lyricist. !n 1996,
Paradimc was discovcrcd by Kid Rock, who took thc young cmccc undcr
his wing. Thc partncrship bcgan with Paradimc pcrlorming at local shows
with Kid Rock, but soon grcw into somcthing much morc. Paradimc would
ultimatcly cowritc somc ol Kid Rocks biggcst hits, such as Cowboy,
Forcvcr, and Cocky. Vhilc still working on his own solo rccording ca
rccr, Paradimc would cvcntually bc cnlistcd by Kid Rock to tour with him
as his J and hypcman.
!n 1998, Paradimc lormcd his own indcpcndcnt labcl, 8cats at Vill.
Hc has sincc rclcascd lour lulllcngth albums. Thc lirst ol thcsc,
-, was hailcd by local prcss as a ctroit hiphop classic. Thc album
was namcd thc topsclling album in ctroit (19992001) by thc ctroit
Music Rctailcrs Collcctivc. !n 2001, Paradimc rclcascd his sccond lull
lcngth album, -. Following thc rclcasc ol thc album, Paradimc won
thrcc ctroit Music Awards in 2002 lor 8cst HipHop Artist, ust
anding Livc Pcrlormcr, and Album ol thc Ycar. (Hc has sincc won
scvcn morc ctroit Music Awards.) Additionally, Paradimc was namcd
magazincs HipHop Artist ol thc Ycar thrcc ycars in a row
(20012004). Hc has also takcn homc awards lor Solo Artist ol thc Ycar,
Livc Pcrlormcr ol thc Ycar, and Lyricist ol thc Ycar lrom thc annual
ctroit HipHop Awards.

PARA!M
123
!n 2004, Paradimc rclcascd - to grcat acclaim. Hc has
sincc rclcascd thc album in 2007, and was hard at work on his
lilth album at thc timc ol this writing.
-
Hiphop is my cvcrything. !ts likc that Common song ! Uscd to Lovc
H..R., thc way hc dcscribcs hcr and wcnt through so many rclationship
changcs with thc music. Thats cxactly how it is lor mc. !ts just likc a girl
lricndsomctimcs you hatc its guts, and somctimcs thcrcs nothing bcttcr.
|Laughs.| !ts thc lirst thing that gocs into my cars whcn ! wakc up in thc
morning, and its thc last thing ! listcn to at night. ! listcn to all dillcrcnt
typcs ol music, but thcrc is nothing clsc that movcs mc thc way hiphop
docs. ! think its thc rcalncss ol thc music that appcals to mc, pcoplc say
cxactly whats on thcir minds, and thcrcs nothing bcttcr than that.
- - -
You know, pcoplc always ask who your lavoritc cmccc is or whatcvcr, and
! always think about thc lirst timc ! hcard Rakim. Thc lirst timc ! hcard
Paid in Full, his voicc and his cadcncc madc mc pay attcntion. ! was into
brcakdancing whcn ! was a kid! was an cightics babywhcn hiphop
was still in its llcdgling ycars. You know, and - . . . !
was still rcally littlc during all ol that. My oldcr cousin was into cvcrything,
and ! just did whatcvcr hc did. ncc ! watchcd and startcd gct
ting into it and lccling that music, thcrc was nothing bcttcr. So you askcd
about my carlicst mcmorics: Rcally, honcst to God, ! rcmcmbcr bcing at
my boy Marios houschcs onc ol my closc lricnds to this dayand lis
tcning to thc casscttc and thinking, amn, that shit is lrcsh!

!n 1996, ! had bccn making littlc lourtrack dcmos in thc bascmcnt, and
it got to thc point whcrc cvcryonc in thc ncighborhood was rcally into it
and bumping my music. nc ol thc ncighborhood dudcs camc up to us
and was likc, ! got somc moncy, and ! want you to actually rccord a rcal
album. Vcd prcss up littlc casscttcs with our own littlc covcrs and pass
thcm around and scll thcm, wc practically livcd oll ol thcm lor a couplc ol
ycars. And this dudc was likc, ! got rcal moncy to takc you into thc studio
to actually rccord. So wc wcnt to this studio callcd thc Vhitc Room in
ctroit, and whcn wc walkcd in, thc vcry lirst pcrson wc saw was Kid Rock
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swccping thc lloor. |Chucklcs.| And wc kncw who hc was at that point bc
causc hc alrcady had rclcascd thc - - - album. 8ut
wc wcrc likc, amn, dudc, thats Kid Rock, swccping thc lloors. So wc
mct with thc dudcs who actually owncd thc studio and wc told thcm what
wc wantcd to do. Thcy askcd to hcar somc ol thc music, and Rock was
right thcrc, and hc camc in and said, Vhats this: Vc told him, and hc
said, Tcll you what, and hc told thc owncrs ol thc studio, ! want to work
with thcsc guys. !l thcy cnd up rccording hcrc, ! want to bc an cnginccr, !
want to bc on this shit. Hc was rcally all about it.
Vc just built a rclationship lrom thcrc. Vc workcd on this album
that ncvcr camc out, and around this samc timc his album
camc out. Thcn ! startcd to do somc writing lor him, and
wcvc staycd boys lor all thcsc ycars. Hc signcd mc to Top og Rccords in
1999 to a production dcal, and that was right whcn hc blcw up and |Kid
Rocks lormcr J| Unclc Krackcr blcw up. So whcn it camc timc to rcsign
wc said, udc, wc cant. Yourc just too big. Youll ncvcr havc timc to do
my music. So thcn, in 2001, Krackcr wcnt solo, and thcy callcd mc up onc
day whcn ! was brokc as a jokc, sitting at homc with no moncy. Thcy wcrc
likc, Hcy, you want Krackcrs job and makc X amount ol dollars: ! was
likc, Hcll ycah, and lrom thcn on thc rcst is history, !vc bccn in thc band
lor almost 10 ycars now.

Vcll, thats thc lunny thing . . . ! know pcoplc say thcy livc hiphop, but !
litcrally livcd it 24/7. !n thosc midninctics, ! would wakc up in thc morn
ing, roll somc wccd, gct in my car and drivc to my cousins houschc was a
J and hc had cratcs ol and wc would scriously just sit around
and liddlc with bcats and rap. Thats all wc did all day! Thcn wcd go to a
littlc tclcmarkcting job at night and thcn wcd comc homc and do morc. So
just bcing around thc turntablcs all thc timcwatching my cousin doing it
and tcaching myscll littlc things hcrc and thcrcwas my introduction to
dccjaying. ! ncvcr planncd to bc a scrious J, but ! was always lascinatcd
with scratching and ! thought that shit was so ill . . . Vhcn thc Kid Rock
gig camc, my main locus with him is programming shit and lots and lots
and lots ol backup vocals. ! havc a couplc ol littlc scratch solos and shit likc
that, but as lar as traditional dccjaying, thats not my shit. !m thc bcst J
that Kid Rock could possibly havc in rcgards to thc things that ! do lor
PARA!M
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him. ! dccjaycd lor Run whcn Run was out on tour with us. ! can control
whcn to drop bcats. My timing, my backup vocals, and my knowlcdgc
ol thc songs arc my brcad and buttcr. !l thcy cvcr want to stop and start
somcthing, ! am on that shit. So as lar as battlc Js: ! couldnt hang, but
thcn nobody clsc could hang doing what ! do.
- -
- -- -
-
Vcll, ctroit always had this thing about it whcrc it was acccptcd. ! mcan,
whcn Kid Rock put out - - on Jivc, hc was hcrc. Hc
might havc had a littlc buzz in othcr placcs, but hcrc hc was thc king shit.
So thcrc was alrcady somc acccptancc ol that hcrc in ctroit. !t wasnt rc
ally so bad. ! mcan, you always got that lunny lirst look until you provcd
yourscll. 8ut this was ctroit, and in this city you had to provc yourscll no
mattcr who you wcrc. A lot ol timcs pcoplc would givc you that look likc,
Aw, shit, hcrcs anothcr whitc boy gctting rcady to spit . . . 8ut ! was
lucky bccausc ! always had rcspcct in thc strccts and cats hcrc kncw mc. To
bc honcst, probably thc hardcst thing ! had to dcal with rcgarding racc -
mincm. 8ccausc oncc Marshall camc around, thcn cats startcd looking at
you likc, h, you want to bc mincm.
- -
- - -
xactly! ! didnt cvcn think about him. Scc how littlc a part hc plays in my
mcmory: |Laughs.| 8ut yourc right. !t was sccn as chccsy, likc whitc boys
wcrc just coming around to try and bc poppy rappcrs. ! mcan, Marshall
changcd so much shit it isnt cvcn lunny.
! just think ! was lucky to comc up hcrc, bccausc ctroit had somc ol
thc biggcst whitc cmcccs. !t was kind ol likc youd always gct that lirst look,
but thcn altcr that, ! ncvcr had any problcms.

Around thc timc my lirst rccord camc outprobably 1999wc wcrc always
doing shows in ctroit and Ann Arbor. ! mcan, this was right around thc
timc that Marshall had just blown up. Kid Rock had just blown up. 12 was
blowing up. That was thc thing, wc all ran in thc samc groups ol pcoplc.
Anyway, cvcryonc kncw ! was a hcavy drinkcr, and it just got to thc point
CHAPTR S!XTN
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whcrc lor this month and a hall ! wound up lighting somconc in thc club
altcr thc show cvcry singlc night. !t was kind ol hilarious. !t was just ridicu
lous. And thats actually how ! mct TrickTrick and a lot ol thcsc othcr cats.
Thcy wcrc likc, This crazy whitc boy is always coming around and lighting
cvcrybody! ! was just this short, chunky whitc kid who was tough as nails. !
cant rcmcmbcr what thc publication was, but thcrc was this intcrvicw that !
did, and somcthing about that camc up. Thcy cndcd up putting that in thc
hcadlinc: Paradimc, thc Microphonc 8ully. And thcn it just kind ol stuck.
!t was a rcally wild timc in my lilc and it was just lun as hcll.
- - -
-
!d say thc camaradcric and thc lratcrnity kind ol lccling about it arc dillcr
cnt. Thcrc rcally isnt much bccl hcrc. ! mcan, thcrc was stull likc !.C.P.
and Prool, or !.C.P. and mincm, but that was just sort ol a givcn. 8ut
at any givcn timc you can walk into a studio scssion with TrickTrick and
run into mc and 8lack Milk or Guilty Simpson, or walk into a scssion
with Strcct Justicc and run into Monica 8lair. Thc sccnc hcrc is so big,
but cvcrybody wants to work with cach othcr. vcrybodys cool with cach
othcr. Thcrc will always bc a couplc ol hatcrs or a couplc ol pcoplc you roll
your cycs at, but in thc majority its likc a giant crcw whcrc cvcrybodys just
running with cach othcr. Thc onc thing that ! always thought was uniquc
about ctroit was thc sarcasm, likc thc carly mincm shit, that rcally wild
! dont carctypc ol shit. Sct lirc to thc carpct, and burn down your cntirc
dcpartmcnt . . . All ol that shit. Rappcrs hcrc havc always had a scnsc
ol humor, a kind ol sarcasticncssa rowdincss. !vc always lound that to
bc sort ol a backbonc in so many artists lrom around hcrc. Vcvc all sort ol
got that ! dont givc a luck attitudc.

- -
Somctimcs ! gct angry at myscll and think that !m bcing closcd mindcd. !
rcmcmbcr ! hcard Follow Mc, which is Unclc Krackcrs biggcst pop hit,
carly on. Hc playcd that song lor mc at his housc onc day and, ! swcar to
God, ! said, You arc out ol your mind. That is thc lamcst shit ! havc cvcr
hcard in my lilc. ! mcan, a lot ol pcoplc dont gct this, but Krackcr is a
tough son ol a bitch, and hc camc up doing somc rowdy shit. Hc uscd to
bc this sick cmccc! mcan -but hc always had this ability to carry a
PARA!M
127
tunc and writc rcally good songs. ! gucss hc was writing country songs at
thc samc timc hc was writing rap shit in thc latc cightics and carly ninc
tics, so thats how lar that gocs back. So ! was shockcdhcrcs my buddy,
whos covcrcd in tattoos and has a gold tooth and was quick to go and sock
somcbody in thcir mouthsinging Swim through your vcins likc a lish in
thc sca . . . ! was likc what thc hcll is that: 8ut thcn whcn it camc out, it
was so gigantic that ! was likc, !m an idiot. ! think its bccausc ol whcrc
thcy grcw up at. Thc cast sidc ol ctroit and thc wcst sidc ol ctroit arc
as dillcrcnt as Los Angclcs and Ncw York. Surc, thcrc arc similaritics, but
thcn thc pcoplc arc just rcally dillcrcnt. Anybody will tcll you that. And
thosc guys arc castsidcrs, so whcrc thcy grcw up, thcy listcncd to rock, rap,
and country. Vhcrc ! grcw up, it was just hiphop, hiphop, hiphop. 8ut
in thc samc scnsc, as !m working on my ncw album right now, ! can scc
that this rccord is so much morc musical than thc stull !vc donc in thc
past, and thats lrom bcing around thosc guys. My lirst singlc lrom thc
album, Lovcly ay, had a sax playcr in it. ! want my music to bc morc
likc thatmorc timclcss. ! listcn to hiphop all thc timc, but on Sunday
altcrnoons !vc got this 72hour playlist that ! hit on my iPod callcd Clo
rox, and its all Stccly an and Flcctwood Mac and Rolling Stoncs . . .
That music is timclcss.
! wont cvcr go thc country routc, but thcrcs always a small clcmcnt
ol rock in my songs. !ts not rock/rap, by any mcans, !m a hiphop artist.
!m an cmccc. 8ut on this ncw album, you can scc a lot morc llavors ol livc
music touching it.
- - - ---
- - - - -
- -
Thcrcs a rcal contradiction in what ! do. Vhat ! mcan by that is, you can
listcn to a Paradimc album . . . !vc had pcoplc who thought thcy wcrc call
ing mc out on this. Hold on, man. This onc song is callcd Rock Star Shit
and yourc talking about llying on jcts and trashing giant hotcl rooms, and
thcn on thc ncxt song yourc bitching about not knowing whcn thc ncxt
chcck is coming in to pay thc bills. !m likc, That shits rcal. This Kid
Rock lilcstylc is -. !ts that rcal rock star shit likc you scc in thc movics.
! mcan, lor instancc, onc night wc wcrc in a hotcl in \cgas and just lor thc
hcll ol it Rock callcd downstairs and told thcm hc wantcd a baby carriagc
CHAPTR S!XTN
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and somc bowling pinsjust rcally random stull to scc il thcyd bring it
and thcy brought all that shit up to thc room! |Laughs.| That party lilcstylc
is rcal and thc moncy is amazing. !vc kcpt myscll in my samc surroundings,
and whats lunny is that Krackcr did thc samc thing . . . Vhcn hc got hugc,
hc took thc housc hc was living in and hc knockcd it down, and hc bought
thc housc ncxt door and hc knockcd that down, and thcn hc built this hugc
mansion in thc middlc ol this tiny ncighborhood! !ts so crazy looking, and
yct its so lrcsh bccausc hc was likc, ! want to stay in my ncighborhood.
!m still whcrc ! want to bc. !vc got a littlc tiny housc, but its mackcd out
to thc gills. !vc got moncy in thc bank, which is nicc, but il wc dont tour
lor a ycar and !vc bccn blowing my moncy and bcing Mr. Crazy Rock Star,
thcn it catchcs up to you. And thcrcs always thc rcality ol coming homc
and linding out that onc ol my lricnds got shot or somcbody ovcrdoscd or
somcbody brokc somconc clscs jaw . . . Thc rcality ol whcrc !m lrom and
whcrc and what ! rcprcscnt ncvcr gocs away.
! think that thcrc arc two ol mc. Thcrcs thc mc that gocs out on tour
and sings backup in a rock and roll band and has to play a tambourinc cvcry
oncc in a whilc - and thcn thcrcs thc mc that
still wants to go to St. Andrcws and rock ovcr a brcakbcat and just spit.
Thc guy who just wants to go and spit is lrustratcd, so ! still am hungry.
My pockcts may havc changcd scvcrcly ovcr thc past dccadc, but my lirc
lor hiphop and my lrustration ovcr somc things in hiphop arc still thcrc.
-
- - - -

|Laughs.| !ts lunny. ! always gct that qucstion and ! can almost ncvcr
answcr it without gctting anyonc in troublc! |Chucklcs.| !ts basically likc
il you took thc movics that youvc sccn about rock stars, and you takc thosc
storics that youvc hcard . . . ! dont know. !vc bccn in a hotcl room whcrc
Chuck Lidcll lrom thc UFC is ovcr in onc corncr talking to Sugc Knight,
and Xzibit is ovcr hcrc hammcrcd on thc couch, and somc lamous country
singcr is puking oll thc balcony. Thcrc arc a couplc ol nakcd girls in thc hot
tub . . . scx and drugs and rock and roll . . . pcoplc doing cokc oll all kinds
ol othcr pcoplc. !ts just crazy, and this is all truc!
Thcrc arc so many timcs whcn you just laugh to yourscll likc, This shit
cant bc rcal! 8ut it is, and Kid Rock is my lricnd, and wcvc bccn in this
PARA!M
129
busincss togcthcr lor a long timc, but ! can say without lail that hc is onc
ol thc last truc rock stars. Thcrc arcnt rcally rock stars likc that anymorc.
Youvc got your pop stars and what havc you, but Kid Rock rcally docs
this shit. Hcll walk into any club and stcp up to thc turntablcs and just
murdcr it. ! rcmcmbcr wc did that show and thc 8cat Junkics
wcrc thcrc, and thcy wcrc cxcitcd to mcct Kid Rock bccausc thcy kncw
thc history. Hc got up and was cutting with thosc dudcs, doing tricks, and
standing up on thc turntablcs and cutting bctwccn his lcgs and bchind his
back. And thcy wcrc so gcckcd. Pcoplc dont rcalizc that Kid Rock is that
guy, and hcs also thc guy who will walk into a country bar and pick up a
guitar and rip a solo. Thc guy is ridiculously talcntcd. 8ut on top ol that, hc
partics hardcr than anyonc you know, or havc sccn, or havc hcard about. Hc
is thc rcal dcal and thcrc arc timcs whcn !m likc, Holy shit, yourc nuts!

1. - (1998)
2. - (2001)
3. - (2004)
4. (2007)
130

L
ong !sland cmccc R.A. thc Ruggcd Man was thc product ol a
brokcn homc. His lathcr was a \ictnam vctcran who sullcrcd
lrom thc cllccts ol Agcnt rangc. As a rcsult ol thc chcmical,
R.A.s brothcr Maxx was born handicappcd and blind, ultimatcly dying
at thc agc ol 10, and his sistcr cc Ann was unablc to walk or spcak. As
a child, R.A. drcamcd ol bccoming a lilmmakcr or a prolcssional boxcr.
Hc thcn discovcrcd hiphop music, studying classic albums and honing
his own llow. Soon R.A. cstablishcd himscll as onc ol thc licrccst cmcccs
on thc Ncw York battlc sccnc. At thc agc ol 17, R.A. lound himscll at
thc ccntcr ol a ninc labcl bidding war. Altcr holding out lor ncarly a
ycar, hc ultimatcly signcd with Jivc Rccords and wcnt to work rccording
his dcbut album, -. Vhilc rccording a track lor
thc album with thc Notorious 8.!.G., R.A. caught thc attcntion ol thc
lcgcndary cmccc, who was quotcd as saying, And ! thought ! was thc
illcst. R.A. thc Ruggcd Man was now sccn as bcing thc ncxt big thing,
with magazincs and othcr cmcccs tcstilying to his grcatncss. Howcvcr,
intcrnal strugglcs with his labcl soon stoppcd thc young cmcccs rapid
asccnt to thc top. uc to his rclusal to allow thc labcl to tampcr with his
music, R.A. was labclcd as dillicult to work with. As a rcsult, thc labcl
dccidcd to shclvc his album (which would ultimatcly bccomc a bootlcg
classic), and R.A. was subscqucntly banncd lrom rccording studios, rc
cord labcls, and livc appcaranccs at just about cvcry substantial vcnuc in
thc Unitcd Statcs.

R.A. TH RUGG MAN

131
cspitc thcsc sctbacks, R.A. pcrsistcd, continuing to honc his skills
and rclcasing his music indcpcndcntly. Thc cmccc whom
magazinc has comparcd to a bluccycd Notorious 8.!.G. has sincc bccomc
a goto guy lor collaborations and rcmix appcaranccs. Hc has workcd with
thc likcs ol Mobb ccp, Kool G. Rap, VuTang Clan, Chuck . ol Public
ncmy, and Sadat X, among othcrs, as wcll as such notcd produccrs as r
ick Scrmon, Trackmastcrs, J Quik, and Alchcmist. !n 2004, R.A. signcd
with thc 8rooklynbascd labcl Naturc Sounds and linally had thc opportu
nity to rclcasc an album through ollicial channcls. Thc album,
, was mct with hcavy praisc lrom both critics and lans worldwidc.
Hc has bccn lcaturcd on all thrcc volumcs ol Rawkus Rccords popular
compilations, appcaring alongsidc mincm and Mos cl.
Hc has also appcarcd on thc platinumsclling -- soundtrack.
!n 2009, Naturc Sounds rclcascd thc R.A. compilation ---
, which lcaturcd lost tracks lrom -, as wcll
as obscurc collaborations.
!n addition to his accomplishmcnts as an cmccc, R.A. has also writtcn
lor magazincs ranging lrom to , cowrittcn thc scrccnplay
lor Frank Hcncnlottcrs horror lilm , and dircctcd his own lca
turc lilm cntitlcd .
-
That all dcpcnds on whom you ask, bccausc thcrc arc dillcrcnt aspccts
to hiphop: gralliti, dccjaying, thc bcatmaking. For mc, as a lyricist, !
dont livc all ol that othcr stull. ! scc othcr cmcccs sign thcir autographs
and makc thcir signaturcs look likc gralliti . . . ! livc my cntirc lilc lor thc
lyricism in hiphop. Thc culturc is so much morc broad than just what !
do, but thats my cntirc lilclyricism and cmcccing. Thats what hiphop
mcans to mc. !ts pcrsonal cxprcssion in thc trucst, purcst lorm possiblc.
- -
! was 12 ycars old. Thcrc wcrc a lcw kids in my ncighborhood rapping, and
onc ol thcm was this kid namcd 8ub. Hc callcd himscll Human 8cat 8ox
8ub. ! saw this dudc blowing up a shopping ccntcr window with an M80.
! pullcd up on my bicyclc and hc said, Chcck this out, kid! Chcck this out!
And all ol a suddcn thc shopping ccntcr window blcw up, and ! thought,
This kid is cool. Vc thcn hung out all summcr and wc wcrc doing stull
likc brcaking into houscs. Vc wcrc just on a rampagc.
CHAPTR S\NTN
132
Thc kid also had a boom box, and hc had all thcsc casscttc tapcs, all
thc classic stull. Hc startcd playing mc somc ol this music, and ! just lcll in
lovc with it. Vithin a ycar or two, ! wound up bcing bcttcr than thc dudcs
in my ncighborhood, including 8ub. That was surprising, bccausc hc was
quitc a lcw ycars oldcr than mc. Thcn ! was kind ol known around thc
ncighborhood as thc dopc rappcr. And that just camc lrom hanging with
thcsc kids and bccoming obscsscd with rhyming.
- -
Kool G. Rap is thc onc ! say all thc timc, and cvcryonc knows ! worship thc
guy. Kool G. Rap is thc grcatcst lyricist who cvcr livcd, and whcn ! say that,
! mcan in thc history ol music, not just hiphop. ! mcan, lorgct about John
Lcnnon, lorgct about Jim Morrison, lorgct about all ol thosc guys. Kool
G. Rap is lightycars ahcad ol thcm all. Most lyricists havc no idca about
wordplay and all ol that. This man is a gcnius. Surc, all thosc rock guys arc
cool, but thcy cant comparc to Kool G. Rap. Hcs thc grcatcst cat to cvcr
play with words in thc history ol music.
- -
! had just comc oll a ninc rccord labcl bidding war thc ycar bclorc. ! had
all thc labcls altcr mc. ! had bidding wars with cl Jam, Priority, Varncr
8ros., Jivc Rccords, Mcrcury Rccords, Tommy 8oy . . . !l you namc a
rccord labcl, thcy wcrc throwing rccording contracts at mc. ! saw how
thcy all workcd, and ! saw how simplc thcy wcrc. Thcy wcrc all a bunch
ol lollowcrs. ! wcnt up to rccord labcls thc ycar bclorc that, and nobody
wantcd to givc mc a dcal. Thcy kcpt saying, You nccd morc R&8 in your
music. Rcmcmbcr how in 91, 92, cvcrything was likc Fathcr MC: Thcy
wcrc throwing R&8 into cvcrything. A lot ol thcsc rccord labcls likc cl
Jam and Varncr 8ros. wcrc turning mc down. Thcn ! was in a rccord
ing studio with a bunch ol lamous rappcrs, and all ol thcm lovcd mc. So
thcn, by thc cnd ol thc day, ! lclt thc studio with ollcrs lor rccord dcals
lrom both Mcrcury and Giant. Altcr ! got thosc two ollcrs, all ol a suddcn
cl Jam wantcd mc. Thcn all ol a suddcn Jivc wantcd mc. Thcn Priority
wantcd mc. All ol a suddcn cvcry labcl wantcd mc. Thcy lollow trcnds.
Thc ycar bclorc ! couldnt gct a big moncy dcal, and all ol a suddcn ! got
two dcals, thrcc dcals, lour dcals, and linally ninc dcals. So ! playcd it oll,
and ! wouldnt sign. !t took cight months to ncgotiatc. Thcy startcd out
likc, Vcll givc you 8100,000. ! was brokc, so all ol my lamily was likc,
R.A. TH RUGG MAN
133
8100,000: You bcttcr sign lor 8100,000! And ! said no, ! wasnt signing
lor 8100,000. Thcy said, Vhat il you ncvcr gct an opportunity likc this
again: My lawycr was yclling at mc. ! said, Shit, thcyrc not all going to
go away in onc day. So ! just sat on it, and ! didnt sign. vcntually ! was
ollcrcd 8340,000.
So thc song camc lrom mc sccing how thc industry workcd. And
thcn whcn ! signcd with Jivc, ! had a lot ol issucs with my labcl. ! wrotc
that song whilc ! was on Jivc Rccords, and at thc timc it causcd a lot ol
problcms. Thcrc was a lot ol controvcrsy, and lot ol pcoplc thought ! was
shooting myscll in thc loot. You cant say that about labcls! Youll ncvcr
gct a dcal again! And in thc carly Ninctics, it wasnt likc today whcrc you
can just go and rclcasc your album on an indcpcndcnt. Thcrc wcrc somc
indic rap rccords back thcn, but you still nccdcd tons ol cash to do a rccord
indic. !t didnt cxist thc way it docs now, whcrc anyonc can just go on thcir
computcr and put thcir rccord out worldwidc. So il you wcrcnt signcd to a
labcl, you had to havc tons ol cash to put out a rccord. vcryonc thought !
was hurting myscll by rccording that song, and in a way ! did, but !m glad
! did. Look, hcrc wc arc 15 ycars latcr, and yourc asking mc about that silly
littlc rccord. |Laughs.|
-
Thcrc wcrc a lot ol intcrnal problcms. Rccord labcls want to control thcir art
ists, and rccord labcls want artists who arc vcry gratclul to bc signcd to thcm.
Yourc supposcd to think, Ycah, my labcl always knows bcst. Hcrc ! was
a young kid signcd to this labcl, and ! didnt know thc politics ol thc gamc.
You had to strokc thcsc rccord cxccutivcs cgos. Thats what you do. Youvc
got your managcr in thcrc saying, Ycs, thats right. You havc to prctcnd that
thcyrc right and thcn do whatcvcr you want to do anyway. Thats thc gamc,
and ! didnt play thc gamc. !n lact, ! still dont play thc gamc. So whcn a
rccord cxccutivc would comc into my scssion and tcll mc to lowcr a snarc or
to put somcthing into a chorus, !d say, Gct thc luck out ol my scssion, you
nobody! Gct out or !ll smack you! |Laughs again.| ! rcally closcd oll a lot
ol thc industry hcads. Thcy would say, Vhy dont wc put so and so on your
song, and !d tcll thcm to gct out and lcavc my music alonc. This shit is
dopc. !l you know how to promotc a rccord, thisll blow up. Go do your job.
! thought il your music was good, you blow up and yourc succcsslul.
! thought thc public was smart cnough to know il you wcrc dopc. ! didnt
CHAPTR S\NTN
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undcrstand that its a wholc markcting machinc, and thc product is only
15 or 20 pcrccnt ol it. Thc rcst ol it is markcting, gctting it out thcrc, and
brainwashing thc pcoplc who dont know thc dillcrcncc bctwccn good
music and bad music. !ts paying oll Js and paying oll vidco channcls. !
didnt undcrstand thc gamc. ! thought, ! dont nccd to listcn to anybody,
bccausc my music is dopc. Vhcn my album drops, its gonna blow up. !
was young and navc. ! didnt know that it didnt work likc that. You can
actually havc wack music and havc somconc supporting you with thc ma
chinc, and yourc gonna blow up. ! just had my way ol making music, and
thcy wantcd to gct thcir two ccnts in. ! didnt lct thcm gct thcir two ccnts
in, so ! bccamc thc cncmy. Thcrc was a lot ol scrcaming and thrcats . . . a
couplc ol physical things that wcnt down. Thcrc was a scxual harassmcnt
lawsuit. Thcn ! got banncd lrom thc building. Thcy wouldnt cvcn lct mc in
thc Jivc Rccords ollicc whilc ! was signcd to thc labcl! ! couldnt cvcn stcp
loot on thc prcmiscs. Thosc wcrc crazy timcs. And ! was my own managcr.
Trying to managc your own carccr and bcing banncd lrom your labcl at thc
samc timc is prctty tough.
-
|Chucklcs.| My lilc is crazy.
- -
Hc was thc samc as cvcryonc clsc. Hc was a 8rooklyn strcct cmccc. You
know, whcn you wcrc in thc studio it wasnt likc, h, my God, wcrc in thc
prcscncc ol thc luturc ol rap. Hc wasnt thc icon that hc is today. Vhcn
yourc working with somconc, you dont rcally lccl likc that anyway. Yourc
thcir cqual. Yourc both in thc studio working togcthcr. 8clorc that, 8iggic
and myscll and Akinyclc workcd on somc stull togcthcr, and at that timc,
Ak was thc big man, not 8ig. ! was likc, Ak is crazy. Ak is killing it. Mcan
whilc, wc had this luturc icon in thc studio with us. Vc wcrcnt thinking that
8ig was thc luturc . . . ! was thinking that Ak killcd it. |Laughs.| Ak had just
donc that album with Largc Prolcssor, so hc was big at thc timc.
8ig was coming up at thc samc timc as mc, so ! saw him as an cqual.
Yourc compctitivc with cats. Yourc not thinking, Hcs bcttcr than mc.
Yourc thinking, ! hopc ! do bcttcr than him, hc hopcs hc docs bcttcr than
mc, but ! hopc wc all do good. Thcrc was no dillcrcncc bctwccn working
with 8ig as thcrc was whcn ! workcd with Killah Pricst. ! just saw him as
anothcr tight lyricist.
R.A. TH RUGG MAN
135
- -
- - - - -
-
Thc collaborations likc Sadat X and Havoc mcant a lot to mc bccausc
thcy happcncd at a timc whcn thc music industry had turncd on mc. ! was
blackballcd, and ! wasnt rcally allowcd to do anything with anybody. ! was
signcd to a rccord labcl who wouldnt put out my matcrial, and ! couldnt
gct oll that labcl cvcn though ! wantcd to. ! was stuck in a rcally horriblc
situation. My lilc wasnt happy at that timc. ! was vcry dcprcsscd. This was
an cxtrcmcly dark timc in my lilc. Thc prcss had cvcn turncd on mc. Thcy
said ! was thc bcst whcn ! was coming up, but thcn altcr my labcl turncd
on mc, thcy turncd on mc, too. Thcy said ! was uncontrollablc and that !
was a piccc ol shit.
! saw Sadat X at a club in thc ninctics, and hc said hc lovcd vcry
Rccord Labcl Sucks ick. Vc discusscd collaborating, and hc camc to thc
studio. That mcant a lot to mc, bccausc that was whcn ! had nothing. Hc
camc on thc strcngth ol thc music whcn ! had nothing. !t was thc samc
thing with Havoc lrom Mobb ccp. ! had known him sincc ! was 16 ycars
old, and wc wcrc coming up togcthcr. ! wcnt to thc studio with a bcat ! had
madc, and it was too lunky. You know, in Long !sland wc do that lunk shit
likc rick Scrmon. ! camc with this bcat that had somc Rogcr Troutman
lunk stull in it, and ! said, Yo Havoc, chcck this bcat out. ! want you to
rap on it. ! showcd up at his scssion, which hc was paying lor, and tricd
to gct a vcrsc oll ol him. Hc said, That bcat is too Vcst Coast. Lct mc
makc you a monstcr bcat. And hc just put on his MPC and laccd up thc
hardcst bcat right thcrc. This was right at thc hcight ol his carccr, whcn hc
was gctting 820,000 a bcat and sclling millions ol rccords. Hc hookcd mc
up with a lrcc bcat and lrcc vcrsc. Hc was just likc, o whatcvcr you want
to do with that. And thosc kinds ol collaborations mcant thc most to mc
bccausc thcy wcrc whcn ! was at thc bottom.
- -- --
- - - -
Thats casy. !ts bccausc ! dont havc a machinc bchind mc. Vhcthcr you
bclicvc it or not, cvcn thc strccts arc inllucnccd by thc machinc. vcrybody
is. Vhcn yourc constantly told that this pcrson is thc bcst, and thats thc
pcrson that you hcar, and thc industry is lorcing thcir music down your
CHAPTR S\NTN
136
throat, pcoplc start to bclicvc that. A lot ol pcoplc dont know how thc ma
chinc works. Likc ! said, ! thought il you wcrc dopc, thc world would lovc
you, and thcyd hcar you. 8ut thats not how it gocs, and a lot ol thc world
docsnt undcrstand that thats not how it gocs. So il yourc cvcrywhcrc on
thc T\, and cvcrywhcrc on thc radio, cvcryonc bclicvcs that its bccausc
yourc thc bcst. You know and ! know thats not cvcn thc casc. Thc wackcst
shit gcts on thc radio. !ts just whos corporatcly run and who works with
thc machinc bcttcr.
! do think in thc undcrground a lot ol kids think !m onc ol thc bcst
modcrn day hiphop artists. ! gct a lot ol acclaim lrom thc undcrground.
!l ! was to work closcly with thc machinc and havc a lcw million dollars
pumpcd bchind mc, thcn all ol a suddcn thc lairwcathcr hiphop lans
would comc to thc tablc and say, Vc lovc R.A. Vc always did. Hcs onc
ol thc bcst.
You havc to brainwash thc consumcrs, and thats what thc rccord
labcls do.
- - -

! think that il yourc whitc, black, Spanish, Korcan, or lrom 8razil or
Colombiawhcrcvcr yourc lromand yourc spitting lrom thc hcart and
practicing your art . . . !l yourc an incrcdiblc cmccc, ! dont think any ol
that othcr stull mattcrs. ! mcan, look at all thc Latinos who wcrc in hip
hop cvcn back in thc scvcntics. ! dont think color, crccd, or any ol that shit
mattcrs at all. !l you study thc cralt, you know your history, and you actually
arc good at what you do, thcn who carcs about thc othcr stull: !ts dillcrcnt
whcn thcrcs an Ashcr Roth or somconc likc that . . . Hcs not that good a
rappcr. !m not going to diss him, but thcrc wcrc bcttcr cmcccs out thcrc
that didnt gct thc acclaim that hc got. So you ask yourscll, !s that racism:
And it might bc. ! dont know. And thcn thcrcs thc lact that mincm is
considcrcd by magazinc to bc thc grcatcst ol all timc, which wc all
know is ovcr thc top. Arc thcsc guys ruining hiphop: No, thcyrc not ru
ining hiphop. Hiphop cant bc ruincd by a corporation il you know your
music and you undcrstand your musicyou can look past thc wack shit,
thc mcdiocrc shit, and lind whats grcat and whats phcnomcnal. You just
havc to undcrstand hiphop as an individual and not bc swaycd by what thc
machinc is tclling you. !maginc thcrc wcrc 500,000 wack whitc cmcccs . . .
R.A. TH RUGG MAN
137
|Chucklcs.| Just ignorc thcm and listcn to thc two or thrcc dopc brothcrs
who arc on thc corncr murdcring tracks. No onc has thc powcr to dcstroy
hiphop unlcss wc givc thcm that powcr.
!l somconc is dcstroying hiphop, !m not surc you can say its whitc
rappcrs. ! mcan, thcy arcnt thc oncs who havc thc moncy and thc powcr.
! think il you wantcd to say that whitc arc dcstroying hiphop, thcn
that might bc a bcttcr argumcnt bccausc thc pcoplc with thc moncy and
thc powcr . . . a lot ol thcm arc whitc. 8ut on thc llip sidc ol that, whcn
JayZ was thc prcsidcnt ol cl Jam, how did hc hclp hiphop: And hcs a
brothcr. JayZ had all thc powcr to put hiphop on thc map and makc it
bcautilul again and bring back thc art lorm instcad ol putting out garbagc.
8ut did JayZ cvcn put out a rap album by anybody: id hc cvcn put any
ncw artists on: So its not just whitc pcoplc, black pcoplc arcnt doing thcir
part cithcr.
You know what: !ts not rcally whitc or black ruining hiphop on thc
corporatc lcvcl . . . !ts grccn.
-
- - - - --
- -
- - - --
Pcoplc lovc VVF wrcstling. Thcy lovc that shit. Pcoplc lovc drama. Thcy
lovc soap opcras. Thcy lovc gossip. You know, so and so smackcd so and so
. . . thcn thatll bc all ovcr YouTubc thc vcry ncxt day. Thcy just lovc that
conllict. Thc guys grcw up on VVF wrcstling, and thc girls grcw up on
soap opcras. vcryonc lovcs that nonscnsc. !n lact, it sccms likc lans likc
thc drama morc than thcy likc thc music. |Laughs.| You could put out thc
dopcst album on thc planct, and thatll gct lcss hits onlinc than lootagc ol
Rick Ross lalling oll thc stagc. h, look, Rick Ross lcll! That nonscnsc
will gct 400,000 hits. r Pitbull commcnting on Kanyc Vcst and Taylor
Swilt. That shit got hall a million hits in two days! !nstcad ol pcoplc saying,
Yo, Pitbulls got a ncw album, chcck it out, thcyrc saying, Hcy, Pitbulls
spcaking about Kanyc! Pcoplc just lovc that drama.
--
- - - -

h, ycah, !m a hugc lilm bull.
CHAPTR S\NTN
138
- - --- -
-

! was a movic psychopath whcn ! was a kid. ! lovcd lilm morc than any
thing. Thcrc wcrc thrcc things ! wantcd to bc whcn ! was a kid: ! wantcd
to bc involvcd with lilm, hiphop music, and boxing. Vhcn ! was scvcn or
cight, ! wantcd to bc Larry Holmcs. ! drcamcd ol bcing thc hcavywcight
champion ol thc world, and it docsnt sccm likc thats going to bc hap
pcning anytimc soon . . . |Laughs.| And ycah, ! wantcd to bc a lilmmakcr
whcn ! was a kid. My parcnts wcrc brokc whcn ! was growing up, and my
mothcr sort ol raiscd mc on hcr own. All ! wantcd in thc world was a vidco
camcra, and onc day lor my Christmas and birthday prcscnts combincd!
think ! was 11 at thc timcshc lound a way to buy mc a vidco camcra.
Today its no big dcal, but back thcn in that cra, it was cxpcnsivc. And this
was thc grcat big vidco camcra with thc \HS tapc. This was a big gilt. !
was likc, Holy shit, ! got a vidco camcra! So ! startcd lilming stull, and
wc madc our own movics, horror movics and ninja movics with Chincsc
throwing stars.
Thcn, whcn ! was 12, ! bccamc obscsscd with hiphop music. As soon
as ! startcd rhyming, cvcrything clsc got put bchind mc. Nonc ol it sccmcd
important anymorc. ! rcmaincd a lilm lan, but hiphop was my primary lovc.

1. - (1994)
2. (2004)
3. --- (2009)
139

8
orn and raiscd in Vcxlord, !rcland, Rob Kclly was inspircd by ast
Coast hiphop artists likc 8ig addy Kanc, KRSnc, Rcdman,
and 8ig L. Thc vcrsatilc cmccc workcd hard to sharpcn his skills,
lirst showcasing thcm with lcrocious lrccstylcs on Vcs Arcys 2FM
radio show . Kclly soon cstablishcd himscll as a lormidablc
cmccc and cntcrcd a spatc ol lrccstylc battlcs, winning scvcral including
thc national championships sponsorcd by Univcrsal Rccords in 2003. Thc
young cmccc bcgan to garncr attcntion lrom thc Unitcd Statcs, and hc soon
caught thc attcntion ol J \lad, who namcd Rob to his wcbsitcs prcsti
gious Unsigncd Hcat, making him thc lirst nonAmcrican to rcccivc this
honor. !n 2004, Kclly rclcascd his lirst mixtapc, , which was
mixcd and hostcd by J Pudgcc P. His sccond mixtapc, -,
was givcn a lullscalc rclcasc by nglish distributor Pickwick Rccords, and
soon garncrcd him morc attcntion lrom Amcrican and nglish audicnccs.
Kclly has sincc bccn sclcctcd to bc a MySpacc lcaturcd artist and
has rccordcd tracks with cclcbratcd Amcrican artists Mcmphis 8lcck and
Slainc ol La Coka Nostra. His undcrground anthcm ropkickcd bccamc
a major !ntcrnct scnsation, and Kclly soon lound himscll lcaturcd in
magazinc. Vith lans lrom around thc world, Rob Kclly is onc ol thc most
cclcbratcd lrcc agcnts around. vcn without a major labcl dcal,
namcd Kclly onc ol thc 30 coolcst pcoplc in !rcland. !n 2009,
Kclly rclcascd - -- and - - on
his own Acquisition labcl.

CHAPTR !GHTN
140
-
Hiphop is cvcrything to mc. ! cant imaginc my lilc without it. !m in Spain
as wc spcak, and on my iPod today ! listcncd to a J sct that ooVop
did at thc Tunncl in thc midninctics. ! was playing that by thc pool. thcr
pcoplc wcrc rclaxing and sunbathing, and ! was listcning to an hour ol clas
sics. vcry dclining momcnt ol my adult lilc has bccn hiphop rclatcd. Most
!rish mcn my agc, whcn thcy think back to making thcir Conlirmation will
think ol looking lorward to how much moncy thcy would gct. ! was looking
lorward to buying LL Cool Js album out ol my Conlirmation moncy and
making surc my whitc boy llattop lookcd likc 8ig addy Kancs.
- -
Thc hiphop sccnc in !rcland is nothing rcally, no sccnc. !rcland has
traditionally always bccn likc a rock band cpiccntcr morc than, say, hip
hop. For ycars ! didnt cvcn know thcrc was a sccnc. !ts gonc backwards
in thc past lcw ycars, to bc truthlul. Thcrc arc a handlul ol dcccnt acts. !
would say nothing morc than dcccnt, and thcn thcrc arc somc upand
coming acts, but thcir scnsc ol what hiphop is sccms to bc a littlc oll.
vcn in a city as big as ublin, thc sccnc is tiny.
To bc honcst, ! dont likc thc tcrm sccnc. !t sccms its only cvcr ap
plicd to pcoplc outsidc ol big citics. ! always said that its not sccncs that blow
upits good artists that put ccrtain arcas on thc map. 8ono couldnt tcll you
anything about thc music sccnc in !rcland, but hc knows hcs doing wcll.

! supposc ! always kncw. ! kncw whcn ! lirst hcard thc Fat 8oys and Salt
NPcpa. ! uscd to writc cvcn back thcn. ! rcmcmbcr whcn ! was 11 ! did
a rhymc lor this girl ! lancicd. !t was a la - about
my bad day at school. ! was always writing. !n my tccns ! uscd to makc
tapcs and pass thcm around school. ! know somconc has thosc. ! uscd to
loop a basslinc with thc pausc button and do thc samc with thc drumbcat,
scratch ovcr it and all that. Thcn it wasnt until ! was in my twcntics that !
approachcd it scriously and did somcthing about it. ! kncw ! was talcntcd,
and ! just wantcd pcoplc to hcar mc.
- - -
That changcs all thc timc. ! was talking about this thc othcr day with somc
onc . . . Pcoplcs Top Fivc lists always changc with whats currcnt. How
R8 KLLY
141
many pcoplc do you know that havc a Chuck or an !cc Cubc in your list
now: Not too many, cvcn though at thc timc thosc two would bc automatic
picks. !m talking alltimc lists. Thcy arc always so licklc. ! am inllucnccd
by grcatncss, so ! lovc JayZ. ! likc what hc has donc lor thc gcnrc in that
hc has managcd to stay rclcvant lor thc past 15 ycars, not only rclcvant,
but hc has managcd to stay on top. 8iggic. ! was thc biggcst 8iggic lan. !
oltcn think about how hc was so nicc, and hc was only 24 ycars old whcn
hc passcd: Thc imagcry, thc storics, thc wordplay . . . Hc was just so nicc.
8ig L, Rcdman, Nas. ! likc somconc likc Scan Pricc, too, just unadultcratcd
rhyming and not giving a luck, and convcying that on rccord.
-
- -
That bcgan bccausc ! startcd rhyming on thc radio cvcry Friday night. !
didnt havc any songs, so ! would havc to mcmorizc thc vcrscs so ! wouldnt
luck thcm up on livc radio. !t just camc naturally altcr that. ! do tcnd to
writc thc odd linc thcsc days, ! lorgct somc stull that comcs to mc, so ! savc
somc ol thc onclincrs on my 8lackbcrry.
-
-
h ycah, ! did. At lirst ! didnt rcally know how to do it. ! rippcd this guy
lrom Ncw Zcaland, and hc won anyway, bccausc thc crowd was compriscd
ol pcoplc lrom his class in collcgc. Thc ncxt onc, my lricnd G Lccch bcat
mc, bccausc hc was rcady lor mc with a bunch ol rhymcs. 8ut altcr that,
! ligurcd it out, and ! ncvcr lost again. My lavoritc battlc cxpcricncc was
against Rhymclcst. Hc was coming to ublin with Mark Ronson, and thc
pcoplc on thc !ntcrnct wcrc talking about how ! had won all thc battlcs
in ublin and that ! should battlc him. So ! said ! would do it. Hc must
havc thought !d callcd him out or somcthing, bccausc hc was acting crazy
on thc day, and whcn ! mct him hc wouldnt shakc my hand or anything.
Mark Ronson was cxtra cool, though, and was cnjoying all thc tcnsion. Vc
had an intcrvicw lor a radio station, and all ol a suddcn Rhymclcst starts
going in on mc. Thc guy says, !l you had somcthing to say to Rob, what
would it bc: Hc was all, ! hcard hcs bccn on thc !ntcrnct looking to lind
out shit to say. That wont work, though, bccausc !m spontancous. So
mc bcing thc smart arsc that ! am, ! said, ! did Googlc him, but it camc
back who: Mark Ronson cruptcd with laughtcr. Thcn wc wcnt out and
CHAPTR !GHTN
142
had two rounds arrangcd, and ! was killing him. Thcn hc askcd lor a third
round, and hc kind ol got mc. 8ut it was all good. Vc shook hands and
rcmaincd in contact until hc won a Grammy. |Laughs.| Actually, hc said
somcthing about a group ! know lrom thc U.K. callcd S.A.S., and thcy
wantcd to rcally kill him. |Chucklcs.|
Mark Ronson actually scnt mc a mcssagc on MySpacc altcr hc got
supcr lamous, which was nicc.
-- - -
-- - - -
Thc !ntcrnct is cvcrything now. Kids dont listcn to music likc thcy uscd to.
Vc uscd to scc music on shows likc - or hcar it on Vcstwood
and thcn go ordcr thc singlc. Thcsc days kids listcn to music lirst on thc
!ntcrnct. !ts cnormous, and its so vital lor mc. Vhcrc would ! bc without
it: ! wouldnt havc stood a chancc. ! couldnt bc connccting with pcoplc all
ovcr thc world without it.
Howcvcr, ! also think its hurt thc gamc in thc short tcrm. Salcs arc
down, so artist dcvclopmcnt has bccomc a thing ol thc past. Labcls now
look lor pcoplc who havc sold indcpcndcntly bclorc signing thcm. Vhat
kind ol bullshit is that: Thc A&Rs work is alrcady donc. Today thcy arc
looking lor somcthing surclirc, and as a rcsult, somc rcally grcat music is
gctting ovcrlookcd.
-
-
! havc always said that it is a blcssing. To havc rccognition in thc U.S. is
what any uropcan artist involvcd with hiphop strivcs lor, but !vc always
put it down to bcing talcntcd. Any ol thc U.S. artists ! havc workcd with
havc comc looking lor mc to work with thcm. ! havcnt chascd anybody or
hasslcd thcm on MySpacc. Thcy wantcd to do rccords with mc. Playing
shows in thc U.S. and Canada opcncd my cycs as to what ! can achicvc
with thc right machinc. Pcoplc arc coming up to you and tclling you that
you havc madc thcir lavoritc songs, and you can scc in thcir cycs that whcn
you pcrlorm thcy arc so into it. To comc lrom a littlc town likc Vcxlord
in !rcland, and thcn go to anothcr country and havc pcoplc lly in lrom
othcr citics just to scc you, or to havc thcm know thc words and rclatc to
thc music is a blcssing. A lot ol rappcrs cant do what ! can do likc that.
Pcoplc think thcy arc big timc, but ! scll most ol my mcrchandisc, digital
R8 KLLY
143
rccords, ct cctcra in thc Unitcd Statcs, so ! know with thc right machinc,
!ll bc goldcn.
- -
-
! think bccausc thc community hcrc is tiny, and also bccausc thcrc is not
much support lrom thc inlrastructurc hcrc. Thc music industry hcrc is
compriscd ol a bunch ol dinosaurs. Thc primary radio station is partially
statc owncd. Thc program dircctors dont havc a lucking cluc about hip
hop, so why would thcy carc about Rob Kclly: Thc Statcs know mc bccausc
ol thc alliliations !vc madc and bccausc ol thc !ntcrnct. !ts annoying to mc
somctimcs bccausc ! go to thc U.S. to play, and thcy know all thc words to
my songs, and !m trcatcd so wcll. 8ut back homc, thcy dont givc a luck.
J Grccn Lantcrn knows mc, J \lad knows mc, all thc big Js in thc
U.K. know mc, and back homc !m still unknown. Thc !rishAmcricans
idcntily with what !m trying to do though. Thcy lccl what !m doing.

1. (2004)
2. - (2006)
3. - -- (2009)
4. - - (2009)
144

H
ailing lrom Ncw Rochcllc, Ncw York, socially conscious powcr
housc 8rand Nubian was lormcd in 1986. Thc group, compriscd
ol Grand Puba, Sadat X, Lord Jamar, and J Alamo, rclcascd
thcir sclltitlcd dcbut singlc latcr that ycar. Thc group would ultimatcly
bc signcd to lcktra Rccords in 1990 by notcd A&R rcprcscntativc and
produccr antc Ross. 8rand Nubians scminal dcbut ollcring, ,
which was hcavily inllucnccd by thc tcachings ol thc Nations ol Gods and
arths, is now considcrcd onc ol thc grcatcst hiphop albums cvcr madc.
Thrcc singlcs lrom thc albumSlow own, All lor nc, and Vakc
Upwcrc hits on s Hot Rap Tracks chart in 1991. cspitc thcsc
succcsscs, Grand Puba and J Alamo lclt thc group latcr that ycar. Sadat X
and Lord Jamar, along with ncw mcmbcr J Sinccrc, carricd on thc namc
8rand Nubian and rclcascd thc hit singlc Punks Jump Up to Gct 8cat
own in 1992. Thc singlc provcd to bc controvcrsial duc to its usc ol thc
word laggot, and many accuscd thc group ol bcing homophobic. Fol
lowing on thc hccls ol this notorious singlc, thc group soon rclcascd thcir
sophomorc album -. Thc album spawncd lour morc singlcs
and chartcd at numbcr 12 on thc pop chart and numbcr lour on
thc R&8/HipHop chart. Two ycars latcr, thc group rclcascd thcir third
album, - . This album produccd two morc Top 40
singlcs, Vord !s 8ond and Hold n.
!n 1995, Sadat X, Lord Jamar, and J Sinccrc disbandcd to pursuc
solo carccrs. Thc lollowing ycar Sadat X rclcascd his dcbut solo album

SAAT X
145
- on Loud/RCA. Thc album, which lcaturcd thc singlc Hang
m High, would ultimatcly rcach numbcr 13 on thc R&8/HipHop
chart. Sadat X rclcascd two morc solo albums and two morc 8rand Nubian
albums, workcd as a sixth gradc tcachcrs assistant, and taught childrcns
baskctball in thc Ncw York City 8askctball Lcaguc bclorc bcing arrcstcd
on a wcapons chargc in 2005. Hc scrvcd a ycar at Rikcrs !sland, and hc
walkcd away with a morc positivc outlook on lilc and a burning dcsirc to
makc quality music.
Having rccordcd tracks with cvcryonc lrom VuTang Clan to JayZ
to thc Notorious 8.!.G., Sadat X is onc ol hiphops living lcgcnds. Vith
an imprcssivc 13 albums bcncath his bcltscvcn solo albums and six with
8rand NubianSadat X shows no signs ol slowing down anytimc soon.
-
Hiphop is a way ol lilc. Hiphop is Air Forcc ncs, gold chains, and
swcat suits.
- -

! just lovc thc lccling ol bcing ablc to gct on thc mic. ! lovc that lccling ol
hcaring thc bcat, thc drumlinding that rhyming pattcrn right bchind it.
- -
- -- -
-
-- - - -
--
Thcrc will always bc a placc lor that. Right now, thats just not thc moncy
makcr lor thc industry. You know, thcrc was a wholc movcmcnt bchind
thc movcmcnt. Thcrc wcrc movics likc and .
Fight thc Powcr was out at thc timc . . . !t was a timc whcn a lot ol black
pcoplc wcnt back and rcgaincd thcir culturc. That was around thc timc thcy
wcrc wcaring thc kcntc cloth clothing. Thcrc was an cntirc socicty that was
ticd up in that.
- -
- - -
Thcrcs always room lor growth. You havc to undcrstand that hiphopas
a musical lormis basically still in its inlancy. !ts still growing. You havc
CHAPTR N!NTN
146
othcr typcs ol music, likc classical music, that has compositions that wcrc
writtcn hundrcds ol ycars ago. Hiphop is still growing and dclining itscll.
- - -
- -
-
!vc staycd rclcvant by kccping with this. !vc always bccn ablc to put out mu
sic continuously, whcthcr pcoplc havc hcard it or not. 8y staying in thcrc and
continuing to put out ncw music, !vc rcmaincd in tunc with thc community.
Through no lault ol thcir own, whcn a lot ol cmcccs gct to a ccrtain point,
thcy movc away lrom thc hood and thcy gct complaccnt. Vhcn yourc living
wcll, its casy to bccomc a littlc bit lazy. And you cant rcally takc a long brcak
away lrom thc music and thcn try to jump back on. This music is a constantly
changing thing, and you havc to bc on thc cutting cdgc ol it.
-- - - - ---
!ts likc movics, somctimcs you gct good movics, and somctimcs you gct
bad movics. You gct good hiphop, and you gct bad hiphop. ! dont lccl
that anyonc has to go out thcrc and carry thc torch, pcr sc. Somctimcs
pcoplc go out thcrc and thcy stcp out ol thc boundarics. !ts thc samc thing
with actors, somctimcs thcy go out thcrc and thcy ovcrstcp thosc boundar
ics and do crazy shit too.
- - --
-
! would say that pcoplc arc morc into thc cultural aspccts ol it ovcrscas. !n
Amcrica, cvcryonc with thc hiphop is rcal cool . . . Thcrcs not much danc
ing anymorc, and its not cool to bc in thcrc saying somconc clscs lyrics,
bccausc thcn its lookcd at as yourc trying to bc that ncxt man. !n uropc,
pcoplc arc morc likcly to join in. Thcy know thc wholc culturc ol hiphop,
and thcy know all thc words to your songs, cvcn whcn thcy dont havc a lull
command ol thc nglish languagc.
-

! do think thcy arc morc knowlcdgcablc in rcgards to thc history ol thc
music and culturc. Last ycar ! wcnt and pcrlormcd shows in uropc whcrc
thcrc wcrc 16 and 17ycarolds that wcrc singing songs oll thc
- album, and that album camc out in 1996. Somconc had to havc told
SAAT X
147
thcsc kids that this was a good hiphop album. Thcy didnt just know that
on thcir own. Thc traditions arc passcd down.
-
A lot ol timcs hcrccspccially in thc black communitythc mothcr and
lathcr arc working two jobs and arcnt around to bc a rcal parcntal ligurc.
Thcyrc not thcrc to tcach thcir kids about thingsnot just music, but also
about lilc.
-

8ig was a cool dudc, and hc rcqucstcd that ! comc and gct on thc song. Vc
wcnt to thc studio, wc sat thcrc and listcncd to thc bcat. Thcn wc wcnt back
to back and laid down our vocals. Hc was a vcry lunny dudc. !t also hclpcd
that wc had donc shows togcthcr in thc past and wc had a rapport togcthcr.
- -

! think its madc it a littlc morc introspcctivc. !l somconc is abuscd, or pco
plc takc somcthing and twist it, thc ramilications can somctimcs bc dcadly.
- - -
- - -
!t is dillcrcnt. Vhcn you had bccl back in thc day, you kcpt it on wax. 8ut
somctimcs, il you had bccland thcrc arc a lot ol bccls pcoplc dont know
aboutsomctimcs you lought. Thcrc wcrc a lot ol bccls whcrc rappcrs
thrcw thcir hands up and lought, and altcrwards, you shook thc dudcs
hand and rcspcctcd him as a man. Thcrc wcrc isolatcd incidcnts ol thc
shootings wc scc today, but a lot ol timcs, you know, il you had bccl with
somcbody, you lought. !ts not likc todays bccl. Today ! scc rappcrs who
havc bccl with cach othcr, and thcn thcy scc cach othcr, nothing happcns.
Thcy scc cach othcr in thc club, and onc group is on onc sidc ol thc club,
and thc othcr is on thc othcr sidc. Thcn you scc on thc !ntcrnct thc ncxt
day that words wcrc supposcdly said. 8ack in thc day, il you had bccl with
a man, you wcnt dircctly to that man. And il it camc down to it, and you
couldnt scttlc it any othcr way, thcn you put your hands up. And that was
part ol raplighting and gctting knockcd out. That was part ol rap.
Todays rap is casicr. ! camc up in a timc ol rap whcn you couldnt wcar a
chain to a party. Today thcrc arc a lot ol dudcs who havc no busincss wcaring
CHAPTR N!NTN
148
jcwclry in clubs that arc doing it. ! camc up in a timc whcn you didnt do
that. !l you wcrc in thc club and you had on a gold chain, that mcant you
wcrc a scrious pcrson. thcrwisc, it was gctting takcn. !m talking about
placcs likc Latin Quartcrs, Rooltop, placcs likc that . . . Hiphop was scary
thcn. !t was ncw and it was undclincd. Vhcn you wcnt to a placc likc Latin
Quartcrs, you kncw you wcrc going to a placc that was scmilorbiddcn and
that you had to bc on your guard.
- - -
-
- -
! was thcrc whcn hc jumpcd on thc stagc with P.M. awn. ! was lront and
ccntcr. P.M. awn had startcd that song, and it was going along, and !
gucss KRSnc was lccling somc typc ol way. Hc had to havc alrcady had
somcbody in placc whcrc hc was likc, Listcn, !m gctting rcady to go on
stagc and gct thcsc dudcs oll. As soon as ! gct thcsc dudcs oll thc stagc, !
want my music to comc on. ! mcan, it wcnt down so wcll it was almost
likc it was scriptcd. 8ut it wasnt. You kncw it wasnt.
- - - -
-- - -
-- - -
- - -
-- - - -
A lot ol pcoplc said thcy had a problcm with mc saying Frcak thc lly llow,
luck up a laggot/ ont undcrstand thcir ways, ! aint down with gays. !
didnt rcally mcan it likc that. Vhcn ! said Frcak thc lly llow, luck up a lag
got, that was a tcrm wc uscd lor somcbody who was solt. Anyonc who was
solt was a laggot. And ont undcrstand thcir ways, ! aint down with gays
. . . At that point and timc whcn wc wcrc making that rccordthis was
1992, 1993homoscxuality wasnt as out in thc opcn as it is now. spccially
in thc black community, whcrc that was sccn as bcing taboo. Thats always
bccn that wayin thc black community that was taboo. !t wasnt out in thc
opcn. Vc couldnt makc that song today and gct away with it, bccausc thc
lorccs bchind music and cntcrtainmcnt arc mostly gay right now.
!t rcally wasnt along thc lincs ol us not liking gays. ! just didnt undcr
stand gays, and anyonc who was sccn as bcing solt was a laggot. Vas that
ignorancc on my part: Probably so. And as !vc livcd lilc and lcarncd a bit,
SAAT X
149
!vc probably changcd my vicws a littlc bit on that. ! probably wouldnt say
that in that way now that ! said it thcn.
- - - - -
- - - -
Having spcnt timc bcsidc rcal criminals and sccing cxactly what it is, it makcs
mc wondcr somctimcs what thcsc dudcs arc talking about on somc ol thcsc
rccords. You know, thcy talk about going to buy cocainc . . . ! livcd in thc
cocainc blocks, and ! didnt scc too many ol thcsc guys out thcrc. ! did scc a
couplc ol rappcrs up thcrc doing what thcy portray in thc songs, but ! didnt
scc thc majority ol thcm who arc talking about that.
Having gonc to Rikcrs !sland, ! dont think thcsc dudcs know what
thcyrc playing with. Vhcn you gct in that jail and that door closcs, its a lrcc
lorall in thcrc. spccially in Rikcrs !sland. ! was in a dorm with 60 bcds and
two guards. Vc wcrc in a giant cncloscd arca. So whcn that door closcd, you
wcrc litcrally in that cagc lor thc day. Vhatcvcr happcncd happcncd, and you
had to bc on your guard at all timcs. And this was a maximum sccurity jail.
That mcans you havc pcoplc who arc in transition who arc going up north lor
crimcs. You havc pcoplc in thcrc lor pctty crimcs. !t was just not conducivc to
a positivc socicty ol trying to gct ahcad. You know, thcy took all thc programs
out ol Rikcrs !sland, so thc cducation valuc was gonc. 8ut on thc othcr hand,
Rikcrs !sland was thc grcatcst placc in thc world lor somconc who wantcd
to makc conncctions in that world. !l somconc was trying to conncct with
somconc sclling cocainc on thc outsidc, thcrc wcrc ninc or 10 dudcs in your
dorm alonc with whom you could comparc priccs. So whcn you camc out ol
thc systcm, you wcrc morc knowlcdgcablc on things likc whcrc to lind guns
and how to pull crcdit card scams and things likc that. This wasnt a positivc
socicty at all.
-
- - - -
-
! do think wcll scc a rccmcrgcncc. vcrything gocs in a cyclc. Thcrc was
a timc ol rcsurgcnt music whcrc you had groups likc 8rand Nubian, Poor
Rightcous Tcachcrs, Public ncmy, and thc Nativc Tongucs. That was an
cra. And thcn you had a gangsta rap cra ol groups likc NVA and !cc Cubc.
Thcn you had a Midwcst cra. Now you havc a Southcrn cra whcrc rappcrs
lrom thc South arc doing thcir thing.
CHAPTR N!NTN
150
! do think itll comc back around, but also youvc got to undcrstand
Ncw York. Ncw York has always bccn a placc ol trcndscttcrs. You also havc
to rcalizc that a Ncw York cmccc is a dillcrcnt typc ol cmccc. Vhcn ! camc
up, ! admircd 8ig addy Kanc. ! admircd Kool G. Rap. ! admircd 8iz
Markic. ! admircd thcm, but ! didnt want to thcm. Ncw York cmcccs
havc always bccn kind ol scllish in thinking that thcy wcrc thc bcst. A lot ol
timcs thcyrc not willing to givc anothcr Ncw York cmccc his props. !l you
noticc how Southcrn cmcccs got to whcrc thcy arc, thcy wcrc always about
hclping cach othcr. You hcar Lil Vaync gct on a rccord with Ludacris . . .
Southcrn cmcccs got to thc placc whcrc thcyrc at by piggybacking oll cach
othcr. Thcy also did thcir thing at a good timc in history. For instancc,
whcn Ncw York was on top, you didnt havc thc !ntcrnct and stull likc that.
And a lot ol this Southcrn rap has comc out at a timc whcrc communica
tion and acccssibility is at a high. You also havc to undcrstand that a Ncw
York cmccc talks in a way that sounds dillcrcnt lrom most ol thc country.
!l you go to North Carolina, Gcorgia, Tcxas, or Vatts, Calilornia, thc
dialcct ol thosc pcoplc sounds similar. Thc way thcy talk . . . h, man. !
can hcar that h, man in Florida. Thcn ! can go to my cousins housc in
akland and hcar that samc h, man. This madc it that much casicr lor
thc rcst ol thc country to conncct with that typc ol stylc bccausc thcrc arc
morc pcoplc who talk likc that.
--
- -- - -
-- - -
Thats cxactly right. Hiphop is onc ol thc only arcas whcrc thcy dont
rcally honor thcir vctcrans. !l you look at sports likc bascball and lootball
youll scc that thcy rcvcrc and hail thcir vctcrans. !n rock, bands likc thc
Vho and thc Rolling Stoncs go on tour without having had rccords out
lor 20 or 30 ycars. And thcy continuc to gct young and old lans. ! dont
know at what point this mcntality camc about that at a ccrtain agc you
had to stop. Pcoplc say, Vhcn arc you going to stop rhyming: !s thcrc
supposcd to bc a spccilic day whcn all ol a suddcn thc light gocs oll and !
say, !m donc with this: !t docsnt happcn likc that. !ts just that wc now
havc a dillcrcnt gcncration ol pcoplc listcning to it. Rap is still dclining
itscll, and now wc havc pcoplc in thc 30 to 40ycarold rangc who still
lovc hiphop. Vhat arc thcy supposcd to do: Just not likc it anymorc:
SAAT X
151
- -
---
! lccl that a 39ycarold cmcccs pcrspcctivc on lilc and rap is going to bc
dillcrcnt lrom a youngcr cmccc just lrom thc cxpcricncc ol living longcr.
Thcrc arc going to bc ccrtain things that !m going to talk about that might
not sccm rclcvant to a 20ycarold. Thc pcrspcctivc changcs oncc you gct
out into thc workplacc and yourc not living with your mothcr anymorc.
You know, !vc got to pay this bill hcrc, !vc got to pay lor Sallys Catholic
school or Johnny nccds braccs, but this kid nccds that . . . !n that situation,
your pcrspcctivc changcs, and you start to talk about dillcrcnt things. Mc,
!m going to talk about how ! havc to gct up and gct somc moncy today,
bccausc thc cablc man is coming and this and that, as opposcd to a Soulja
8oy gctting up and looking in thc mirror and saying, !m in thc mirror
now/ ! got my swag on . . . You can do that at 18 bccausc you arcnt pay
ing any bills. Yourc happy right thcn, and its not thcir lault. Thats why !
dont lault thc young cmcccs. You know, a lot ol oldcr dudcs say, Thcsc
youngcr dudcs arcnt making any classics. Vcll, whos to say thcyrc not
making classics: My daughtcr is 17 ycars old, and somc ol thcsc songs right
now arc thc classics that shcs going to rcmcmbcr lrom hcr youth.

1. (1990) |as 8rand Nubian|

2. - (1993) |as 8rand Nubian|
3. - (1994) |as 8rand Nubian|
4. - (1996)
5. (1998) |as 8rand Nubian|
6. - (2000)
7. (2004) |as 8rand Nubian|
8. (2005)
9. (2006)
10. - (2007) |as 8rand Nubian|
11. (2008)
12. (2009)
13. - (2010)
152

M
usic has always comc casily lor Shock G. vcn bclorc bccoming
cnamorcd with this ncw art lorm callcd hiphop as tccnagcr,
Shock was an awardwinning drummcr. cspitc thcsc accom
plishmcnts, Shock soon tradcd in his drums lor a sct ol turntablcs. !n 1980,
hc droppcd out ol high school to pursuc a carccr in hiphop as a mcmbcr
ol a group known as thc Mastcr 8lastcrs. Altcr rcturning to rcccivc his
diploma and attcnding collcgc at Hillsborough Community Collcgc, hc
joincd a numbcr ol hiphop crcws with such namcs as thc Chill Factor and
thc Four Horscmcn.
Shock G latcr rclocatcd to akland and lormcd a group callcd igi
tal Undcrground, which also consistcd ol Chopmastcr J and KcnnyK.
(Thc group latcr cxpandcd to includc Moncy 8, J Fuzc, and Schmoovy
Schmoov.) !n 1988, thc group rclcascd thc 12" singlc Your Lilcs a
Cartoon on Macola Rccords. Thc lollowing ycar, thc group signcd to
Tommy 8oy Rccords and rclcascd thc singlc oowutchalikc, which
soon bccamc an undcrground hit. Following on thc hccls ol this singlc,
igital Undcrground rclcascd thcir lulllcngth dcbut album -
in 1990. Thc album, which wcnt platinum, spawncd thc numbcr onc hit
Thc Humpty ancc. (Thc singlc introduccd thc charactcr Humpty
Hump, thc most lamous ol Shock Gs many altcrcgos.) Thc mcga
sclling singlc would latcr bc rankcd numbcr 30 on \H1s 2008 list ol thc
100 grcatcst hiphop songs ol all timc, and numbcr 65 on \H1s 2007

SHCK G
153
list ol thc 100 grcatcst songs ol thc 1990s. !n 1991, igital Undcrground
rclcascd thc aptly titlcd goldsclling P - - -, which is
notablc bccausc it lcaturcd thc hit singlc Samc Song, which introduccd
thc world to a young Tupac Shakur.
!n 1991, igital Undcrground rclcascd thcir third album, - .
Thc album, which wcnt gold, lcaturcd thc singlcs No Nosc Job and Kiss
You 8ack. Thc group thcn rclcascd thcir lourth album,
, in 1993. Thc album produccd two singlcs Thc Rcturn ol thc
Crazy nc and Vussup wit thc Luv, which oncc again lcaturcd Tupac
Shakur. igital Undcrground has sincc madc livc morc highly qualitativc
albums , - -,
and but nonc managcd to lind thc
largcr audicncc that thcir carlicr projccts cnjoycd.
8csidcs his work with igital Undcrground, Shock has also workcd
cxtcnsivcly with othcr acts such as Tupac Shakur, Tha Luniz, Saalir,
and Mystic. As wcll as producing, lcaturing, and pcrlorming with Tha
Luniz, Shock also lcnt a gucst vcrsc to thc rcmix ol thcir multiplatinum
smash singlc ! Got 5 on !t. Hc is also rcsponsiblc lor producing two ol
Shakurs most succcsslul singlcs, So Many Tcars and ! Gct Around,
on which hc also appcarcd as a lcaturcd gucst. Thc lattcr, which lcaturcd
Shocks drum programming and piano playing, was rankcd numbcr 14 on
\H1s 2008 list ol thc 100 grcatcst hiphop songs ol all timc. Shock also
pcrlormcd (as Humpty Hump) with Gcorgc Clinton and thc PFunk
AllStars as a gucst vocalist at Voodstock 1999 bclorc an audicncc ol
250,000 pcoplc.
!n 2004, Shock rclcascd his lirst solo album, .
Thc album, which rcccivcd critical acclaim, lcaturcd many 8ay Arca lcg
cnds including Ray Luv and J Q8crt.
-
!t always rcminds mc ol music history. Vhcn ! think ol hiphop, ! think ol
jazz and thcn rock and roll. ! scc hiphop as bcing this hugc rcvolutionary
lorcc that rcvolutionizcd languagc and thc way pcoplc rclatc to onc anothcr.
! lccl likc hiphop hclpcd bama gct into ollicc. !t groomcd thc country
to cvcn bc rcady lor somcthing likc that. ! think its amazing. ! think its
an art lorm that rcvolutionizcd thc world in thc samc way that jazz did,
CHAPTR TVNTY
154
and thc samc way that rock and roll thcn did. Thosc wcrc both inncrcity
art lorms that littlc by littlc crawlcd out ol thc inncr city and thcn slowly
bccamc global crazcs. Hiphop did thc samc thing.
-
Mc and KcnnyK wcrc thc last two mcmbcrs ol thc original lour Mastcr
8lastcrs, which was a hiphop group wc had whcn wc wcrc in Florida. Vc
all livcd in Tampa, wc wcrc madc up ol pcoplc whosc lamilics had just
movcd to Tampa lrom Ncw York. Thcrc was no hiphop sccnc thcrc whcn
wc arrivcd in thc latc scvcntics, so wc put our own crcw togcthcr. Thcn by
thc midcightics, lilc had gottcn to all ol us. Somc ol us had kids, somc
ol us wcnt back to school, somc ol us wcnt into thc military. ! wound up
roaming thc country, and ! cvcntually roamcd out to Calilornia with my
girllricnd. 8ut wc had all madc a pact that il any ol us madc it into thc
music industry, wcd rcach back and pull cach othcr in. So it was just myscll
and KcnnyK working on thc dcmo lor Tommy 8oy. So thcn latcr Chop
mastcr J got in it too, bccausc hc was thc onc who scnt thc dcmo to his old
high school buddy who was now working in thc music busincss. 8ccausc
ol that, wc signcd with Macola Rccords. This was onc ol two dclunct dcals
bclorc Tommy 8oy. His ollcr had bccn, Hcy, my lricnd wants to sign
you and put you guys in thc studio, but il so youvc got to put mc in thc
group. So hc was likc thc rich kid with thc baskctball. Hc wound up bcing
a lounding mcmbcr ol igital Undcrground just bascd on his having thc
conncction. So thcn lor a whilc it was just thc thrcc ol us.
Vhilc wc wcrc ncgotiating with Tommy 8oy, thcy wantcd to hcar
songs, so wc scnt thcm somc songs. ! think it was Sticks Mix, Hip
Hop oll, a song callcd Long !sland !ccd Tca, and oowutchya
likc. Thcn thosc lour songs got us an album dcal with thcm, and thcy
also askcd to scc a showcasc, thcy wantcd us to pcrlorm lor thcm. So
mcanwhilc, all ol my crcw lrom back in thc day was now lar lrom thc
art lormycars out ol itand hadnt staycd with thc changcs in thc
music. So wc nccdcd currcnt pcoplc. Chopmastcr Jay was lrom thc
8ay arca, and hc said his girllricnd kncw a J namcd J Fuzc and wc
should chcck him out. Vc told Fuzc wc nccdcd a J immcdiatcly lor
this showcasc lor Tommy 8oy, which was gonna happcn in two days.
Vc nccd a J. Can you hclp us out: Thcn altcr that was succcsslul, wc
askcd him il hc could go on tour with us. Hc said, Ycah, but hc didnt
SHCK G
155
want to brcak up his own group MGM, which was him, MacMonc, and
Moncy 8. So that pullcd thcm into thc group. Hc was likc, Could you
lind somcthing lor thcm to do: And wc wcrc likc, Ycah, no problcm.
So thcy bccamc background vocalists and danccrs lor thc tour, which just
mcant that littlc by littlc thcy got onto thc rccord and bccamc igital
Undcrground.
!t was thc samc path with Tupac an album latcr. Hc was just kind ol
killing timc with us. Vc had alrcady rccordcd his album and his dcmo,
and hc was waiting to gct a dcal. 8ut mcanwhilc hc would tour with us.
So il hc was around whcn it was timc to do a major rccord wcd bc likc,
Hcy Pac, put a vcrsc on this. So that just madc thc world considcr
anyonc thcy saw on thc vidcos with us a part ol igital Undcrground.
vcryonc always says that Tupac startcd out in igital Undcrground,
cvcn though hc was rcally just bcing a gucst artist with us. ! mcan, hc was
only on likc lour or livc igital Undcrground songs . ! think hcs bccn
on that many Snoop songs. 8ut bccausc thc world saw him lirst with us,
thcy considcr him an ollicial mcmbcr. Vc ncvcr had that mccting with
Tupac whcrc wc sat down and said, Yourc part ol igital Undcrground
now. Vc all just undcrstood that his thing was morc political and so
cially conscious stull, so wc wantcd to kccp a littlc distancc bctwccn him
and Humpty so that pcoplc would takc him scriously.
8ut ycah, it just kind ol cvolvcd likc that. !n lact, somc ol thc pcoplc in
thc picturc on thc lront ol thc - album wcrcnt cvcn group mcm
bcrs. Thcy wcrc just our homics and our road managcr. Vc always kncw wc
wcrc gonna lct thc possc cvolvc and grow, but wc didnt havc all thc laccs
yct. So wc took thc picturc with a lot ol hcads in thc photograph. Thcn
mcanwhilc !m doing all thcsc charactcrs. l thc scvcn or cight pcoplc
lcaturcd on thc lirst album, ! was about lour ol thcm. |Laughs.| Vc wcrc
kccping it a sccrct, but Piano Man was a dillcrcnt pcrson. Rackadclic was
a dillcrcnt pcrson. Humpty and Shock G wcrc brothcrs. MC 8lowlish . . .
! was just cntcrtaining myscll, to bc honcst.
-
- -
- -
Vow, thats lunny. Vcll, it wasnt rcally donc with thc intcntion in mind
to lool pcoplc into lcgitimatcly bclicving that ! was anothcr pcrson. !t was
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just supposcd to bc, !snt this cool: This charactcr is cool and lunny. 8ut
thcn pcoplc startcd bclicving it and it was causing so much controvcrsy,
so wc dccidcd to roll with it and continuc to crcatc that conlusion. So
wc would gct doublcs to appcar in our shows. Thcrc havc actually bccn
lour Humptys ovcr thc ycars. nc was my actual brothcr, whos actually
a grungc rock guitarist, my wilcs cxboylricnd cvin lookcd likc mc
cnough that wc had him bc Humpty, my lricnd Michacl Vcbstcr was
also Humpty. Ycah, wc purposclully did things to makc pcoplc comc
homc lrom conccrts - that thcrc was no way that Humpty and
Shock G wcrc thc samc pcrson bccausc thcy saw thcm onstagc standing
ncxt to cach othcr.

My lilc didnt changc much othcr than how busy ! got. Thc busyncss is
what changcd us. Thc doing shows and making music and gooling oll
in thc studio had alrcady bccn happcning lor 10 ycars, but thc sizcs ol
thc audicnccs changcd. 8ut wc still wcnt about it thc samc way wc had
bclorc. Vc rchcarscd in thc samc placc, and wc still askcd oursclvcs what
wc could do to makc our shows spccial. Vc did thosc samc things bclorc
wc wcrc igital Undcrground. 8clorc wc wcrc doing big tours wc would
ask oursclvcs what wc could do to stand out lrom cvcryonc clsc on thc
bill that night. Ycah, ! got an idca. Lcts gct somc blowup dolls and
hump thcm onstagc during Scx Packcts! Shit likc that was always part
ol our thing.
Thc lramcd gold and platinum rccord awards wcrc nicc, but thcy
didnt changc my scnsc ol scllworth bccausc ! had Salcsman ol thc Ycar
plaqucs on thc wall whcrc ! workcd. So ! was uscd to gctting trophics.
! was kcyboard and drum machinc salcspcrson at Music Unlimitcd in
akland. Too Short, Shcila , and Tonc, Toni, Tony wcrc all my cus
tomcrs. Thcy all kncw mc as Grcg Jacobs, kcyboard salcs. |Laughs.| So
it lrcakcd thcm out whcn igital Undcrground happcncd. So that part
wasnt ncw. Vhat was ncw: Thc amount ol ass wc wcrc gctting all ol a
suddcn! Hot chicks, too! Chicks that didnt usually mcss with musicians.
My cliquc, wc wcrcnt thc ballcr typcs. Vc wcrcnt drug dcalcrs and wc
didnt havc grcat jobs. Vc didnt havc rich lamilics. All ol our moncy
wcnt into music cquipmcnt. Vc wcrc all usually wcaring thc samc pair
ol jcans thc wholc wcck and riding thc bus, so chicks didnt look twicc at
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us bccausc wc wcrc just somc brokcass dudcs. 8ut all ol a suddcn whcn
igital Undcrground happcncd, wc wcrc bcdding thc chicks. That
was thc biggcst dillcrcncc to mc. And you know, ! camc oll as a ladics
man on thc rccords. Humptys lyrics on Scx Packctsit was all as il !
was a ladics man. 8ut thcrc was only onc dudc who undcrstood it. Hcs
a bass playcr and hc tcachcs music in akland, his namc is Jcll Hilliard.
Hc said, ! kncw you wcrcnt a ladics man all ol your lilc bccausc your
wholc album is about scx. Usually thc pcoplc who arc writing about scx
arc thc pcoplc who arcnt gctting any. |Laughs.| ! said, You hit thc nail
on thc hcad thcrc. !n high school and collcgc it was thc hardcst thing
in thc world lor mc to do to gct laid. Pcoplc lookcd at us likc wc wcrc
cool and wc should J thc party and all that, but wc wcrc too wacky
and wcird to gct thc rcally hot girls. As you know, all thc hot junior
high school girls datc high school guys. !n high school all thc hot
chicks datc collcgc guys. !n collcgc all thc hot chicks datc athlctcs. !t
wasnt until ! was 26 ycars old and on thc radio that ! startcd dating hot
collcgc chicks!
- - -
-- - -
!t docsnt makc mc wcalthy, but it kccps somc nicc littlc surpriscs trick
ling in hcrc and thcrc. ! own somc ol it but not all ol it. ! sold hall ol
my publishing about 15 ycars ago lor a big advancc, but also to havc a
big company administcr it. !n rcgards to that song, ! didnt cvcn gct that
big ol a piccc ol it bccausc wc had to sharc somc ol thc publishing with
Parliamcnt, wc gavc thcm about 20 pcrccnt lor that horn samplc in
thcrc. !t crcatcs moncy, but it wouldnt bc cnough to rctirc on. My
rcal brcad and buttcr is doing livc shows and touring. Touring has kcpt
mc wcalthy.
-
Touring is what pays my bills. ! couldnt rcally survivc oll ol just thc pub
lishing royaltics. Thcy gct just a littlc bit smallcr cach ycar. 8ut intcrcst
ingly our pricc cach ycar cithcr holds or gocs up bccausc wc bccomc morc
classic with thc passing ol timc. Thcrc was a point whcrc our pricc was
going down and down and down. Vhcn you vcry lirst lall oll and thc radio
stations stop playing your songs is whcn a group is thc coldcst. 8ut il you
rcach a 10 ycar mark whcrc pcoplc arc still playing your music and coming
CHAPTR TVNTY
158
to your shows, thcn a wcird thing happcns and it starts going in thc othcr
dircction. Vith cach ycar that passcs you bccomc a morc classic, morc
rcvcrcd act. And thc pricc actually gocs up. !ts prctty cool, and it makcs
up lor touring lcss or thc lcss rccord salcs. Now, back thcn, thc publishing
moncy was biggcr, thcrc wcrc a lot ol pcoplc who wcrc sampling our songs
or using thcm in lilms. As that pic gcts smallcr and smallcr cach ycar, thc
only thing that balanccs that out is thc livc shows.
-- -- - -

Thcrc arc ccrtain citics that arc big lor ccrtain rccords. Likc in Ncw York
City, Kiss You 8ack is biggcr than it is in othcr placcs. Thcrc arc a lcw
citics whcrc its likc that. Now up on thc Northwcst coast in citics likc
Sacramcnto and Scattlc its Frcaks ol thc !ndustry. !n most citics, thats
thc rccord whcrc il wc play it too carly in thc show, thc crowd thins out.
ncc in a whilc wc still gct thosc crowds whcrc what thcyrc waiting lor
is Thc Humpty ancc, but 75 pcrccnt ol thc timc its Frcaks ol thc
!ndustry. Vc havc to play that onc last or clsc wc dont kccp pcoplc in
thc audicncc.

-
Man, that happcncd so last it was just likc a whirlwind. Thcy askcd us il
wc would bc intcrcstcd in doing somcthing likc that and wc said, Surc.
Thcn a day latcr wc wcrc in LA and thcy said, Can you comc by altcr
soundchcck: nc day wc wcrc gonna do a show at thc Palacc and bc
twccn soundchcck and whcn wc did thc actual show, thcy wantcd us to
comc by. r. rc was in thc produccrs chair at thc kcyboards, and somc
ol thc artists wcrc thcrc, but a lot ol thcm had alrcady laid thcir parts.
Thcn thcrc was somconc clsc thcrc, il ! rcmcmbcr corrcctly, who hadnt
laid thcir parts yct. Thc pcoplc who had alrcady laid thcir vocals wcrc thc
pcoplc who wcrc on thc song bclorc our part, and thc pcoplc who appcar
on thc song altcr us wcrc thc pcoplc who hadnt comc in yct. Thcy wcrc
just lctting it lly just likc that. n thc way thcrc, Fuzc was likc, azy
is on thc rccord, and Hammcr is on thcrc, and this pcrson and that
pcrson, so wcvc gotta comc up with somcthing good. n thc way thcrc
J Fuzc said, !t would bc cool il you could tic up thc Amcrican llag in
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it somchow. And that gavc mc thc idca lor thc linc about thc rcd, thc
whitc, thc bluc . . .
Vhcn wc got thcrc, Michclc was in thc waiting room, whcrc thcrc
was anothcr piano. ! sat down and wc did somc Anita 8akcr togcthcr
and wc did somc Chaka Khan. Vc wcrc just kind ol gooling oll. And
thcy said, rc said comc on in now. Vc wcnt in, and hc was linishing
up with somconc clsc. So ! sat down at thc piano and goolcd oll in thc
studio, and hc wound up rccording that and using that lor thc 8sidc
ol Vc Vant azy. !t was somc song that had thc Plunk chords on it
that ! was looling around on thc piano with. So whcn wc got into it, rc
was trying to makc somcthing about thc music right thcrc spccial. So
! said, This was all ! did, and ! startcd looling with thc kcyboard
and showcd him how ! sct thc bcnd to an octavc, and cnvclopcd thc
sound to makc it sound morc likc it. And rc was likc, Go ahcad and
lay that shit in thcrc. Hc actcd likc hc was just casually asking mc how !
did that basslinc. 8y thc timc ! linishcd showing him what ! did, hc had
lookcd at thc cnginccr and askcd, You got it: And thcy had it alrcady.
And thats how wc wound up having that littlc Humpty part comc in
undcr mc.
- - -
!t wasnt rcally much dillcrcnt than working with Raw Fusion or Gold
Moncy. Vhcn wc wcrc working on Tupacs album, hc was still part ol
a thrccsomc callcd Strictly opc. ! dont know who or how or why, but
somconc apparcntly convinccd him at somc point whilc hc was working on
that album to changc thc artist namc to 2Pac and makc it a solo album. !
ncvcr qucstioncd thc dccision, it just wcnt likc that.
!m spcaking lor cvcrybody hcrc, and ! dont know il cvcrybody
would admit this, but ! know lor surc that thcrcs nobody out thcrc that
could say that Pac was as spccial as hc is bclorc hc did what hc did. Hc
was just a bcttcr than cvcrybody clsc. Hc was a bcttcr than
thc ncxt guy. Hc sccmcd as good as Chuck , or as good as LL Cool J
or somcbody. You didnt think, Hcs about to bc thc crowncd king or
princc ol hiphop! !t wasnt likc that. !t was morc likc, Ycah, Pacs
hot, but his ollstagc and bchindthcsccncs bchavior was so wacky . . .
Hc was just such a nut! Hc was so dyslunctional socially. Hc couldnt
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drivchc wrcckcd cars all thc timc! Hc didnt undcrstand thc job situ
ation, thc crcdit situation . . . Vc got him his lirst apartmcnt. Vc got
him his lirst bank account. vcrything. Hc was just such a dyslunctional
kind ol social rcjcct that it took away somc ol thc bclicvability that
hc was going to bccomc this hugc star il you kncw him bclorc hc was
a hugc star. All you kncw was that thc chicks him! !t was likc,
Pac gcts as many girls as Moncy 8 and Humpty do, and hcs not cvcn
in thc vidco yct! !l yourc onstagc rapping and thc girls scc you, thcn
dclinitcly. !l yourc on thc vidco and thc girls scc you, thcn dclinitcly.
8ut at thc altcr partics altcr thc shows, his swaggcr would pull as many
chicks as wc wcrc pulling lrom actually bcing lamous. You dclinitcly
kncw hc had it with thc girls, but to cnvision him cohcrcntly pulling
it togcthcr and putting out an album and kccping his carccr going just
didnt sccm possiblc. vcn though hc was a littlc bcttcr than cvcryonc
clsc rappingwisc, it was still likc, h, Lord, !m working on this album
with Tupac. 8ccausc thcrc was always this thing in thc back ol your
hcad likc, Hc might wind up gctting shot or going to jail bclorc this
shit cvcn comcs out. You ncvcr lclt guarantccd that you had your cggs
in a good baskct.
This nut . . . |Laughs.| Hc - got us arrcstcd, and hc was -
in crazy lights. Somctimcs it was worth it, somctimcs it absolutcly was
not. Somctimcs it was just a bunch ol hot air and cgo. 8ut as hc startcd
climbing that laddcr and thcn whcn thc dircctor ol noticcd him to
bc somcthing spccial and rccast thc lcad part, thcn thc writing was on
thc wall. Yo, Tupacs ncxt! Thc chicks lovcd him, thc dircctors lovcd
him, hc had a movic carccr coming up, hcd just rippcd Samc Song
with uswhcn ! said rippcd it, ! mcan hc didnt just put a vcrsc on thcrc,
cvcryonc lovcd it! Hc brought a lot morc attcntion to that song than
thcrc would havc bccn without him. Hc wasnt just on it, but hc was
on it.
So by thc timc wc got to his sccond album, ! madc surc hc got thc bcst
bcat ! had produccd that ycar
- - - - - -
- -- -
! apprcciatc that, but ! was actually spcaking ol ! Gct Around. ! wantcd
to givc him somcthing rcally hot. 8ut ycah, So Many Tcars was ghostly.
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!ts haunting. !t has this darkspiritcd soul ol its own. !ts mystical. ! know
what you mcan . . . !ts dclinitcly a lot morc now than it was as a track
without Tupac on it. !t soundcd almost likc a dancc bcat bclorc hc laid his
vocals on it. !t soundcd likc somcthing 8cyoncc could havc sung ovcr. !t
didnt gct dark until Tupac startcd chanting ovcr it likc hc docs. Hc pourcd
thosc words ovcr it in that tonc hcs got . . . And thcn ric 8akcr addcd
thosc guitar tracks to it that took it up a lcvcl too, and it just grcw into this
thing, it just bccamc morc than thc sum ol all ol our individual parts. ! was
likc, Vhoa!
And spcaking ol ! Gct Around, wc pcrlormcd it this ycar on thc
8T HipHop Awards. Thc thcmc ol thc show this ycar is whcn hiphop
was lun, and thats why thcy callcd us in. So wcrc going to cclcbratc thc
lun Tupac, as wcll.

! think thc music grcw up. Hiphop bccamc an adult. And you could say
thc samc thing with all adults. Look at thc timing: hiphop bcgan in thc
mid to latcscvcntics, so whcn wc wcrc out in 89, hiphop was a tccn
agcr. And likc a tccnagcr, it was lun. And thcn look at it in thc ninctics
. . . Vhcn hiphop was a latc tccn, it got gangstcr, and thats thc agc
whcn tccns gct rough. Thats whcn wc start to gct wild and crazy. Vc
gct that invinciblc lccling around 18, 19 . . . Thcn whcn hiphop was
turning 20right at thc agc that rcsponsibility hits a pcrsonit bccamc
conccrncd with moncy all ol a suddcn, lor thc lirst timc cvcr. Now
hiphop is approaching 40 ycars old, so hiphop is a lot lcss loosc and
lunny now, bccausc its an adult as an art lorm. And il you noticc, jazz
wcnt through it, rock and roll wcnt through it . . . !t sccms likc all thc
art lorms go through it, and hiphop, bcing a big scrious takcovcrthc
world art lorm, is going through all thc strugglcs that othcr gcnrcs havc
gonc through. Jazz and rock uscd to bc thc music with all thc cxccsscs
with drug dcaths and pcoplc likc lvis living bcyond his mcans. Now
hiphop is thc art lorm with all thc cxccssivc disgusts and dcaths and
matcrial cxccss. And just likc rock and roll, lunk, jazz, you can still lind
whatcvcr you listcn to on thc radio, it might only bc oncc a wcck or it
might bc down in thc cightics, but it all still cxists. ach branch ol thc
trcc is still alivc. !ts just that all thc ncw branchcs havc takcn on this
rcally grownup intcnsc tonc.
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Anothcr thing is thc compctition ol it. Vhcn wc wcrc rhyming,
it was this wcird ncw art lorm out ol Ncw York City that most pcoplc
hadnt cvcn ligurcd out yct. Look at that! Thcrcs no band onstagc! Just
a J: ! dont gct it! Now cvcry dudc in thc audicncc wants to gct on
stagc and battlc thc pcrlormcr. vcryonc in thc audicncc has thcir dcmo
in thcir pockcts that thcy want you to chcck out that thcy madc on thcir
computcr! !ts likc guitar playcrs in thc cighticsthcy wcrc a dimc a
dozcn, it was saturatcd. To bc a spccial guitar playcr in thc cightics was
likc thc hardcst thing in thc world, and ! think thats how it is right now
with cmcccs. !ts just saturatcd. All ol thc kids who listcn to hiphop havc
grown up now, and thcy can all rap. |Laughs.| can rap now.
ld ladics know what good dccjaying is! - uscd hiphop
slang on thcir T\ show!
My mothcr uscd to tcll mc in thc scvcntics and cighticsshc uscd to
point at thc T\ and say, Thcy said thc word , or this or that . . . And
! would say, Vhat do you mcan: vcrybody says that. And shc would
say, No, Grcgory, thcrc was a timc whcn lunk was a bad word, or stull
likc that. And a lot ol what wc grcw up thinking wcrc normal words in
our gcncration, my mothcr would say, No, rock and roll and jazz brought
thosc words in. That was considcrcd niggcr music. That was jig music.
Thcy thought it was poisoning thc community and thc planct! Things likc
rippcd jcansthats all part ol thc cool jazz pcriod. Vcll, hiphop has
donc that now. ur gcncration, our art lorm has lucking translormcd thc
world, and its a bcautilul thing.

1. - (1990) |as igital Undcrground|

2. - - - (1991) |as igital Undcrground|
3. - (1991) |as igital Undcrground|
4. (1993) |as igital Undcrground|
5. (1996) |as igital Undcrground|
6. (1998) |as igital Undcrground|
7. - - (1999) |as igital Undcrground|
8. - (2002) |as igital Un
dcrground|
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9. - (2003) |as igital
Undcrground|
10. (2004)
11. (2005) |as igital Undcrground|
12. (2008) |as igital Undcrground|
13. (2010) |as igital Undcrground|
164

S
ixtccnycarold Flatbush, Ncw York, cmccc Spccial d madc a
thundcrous cntrancc into thc world ol hiphop in 1989 whcn hc rc
lcascd his critically acclaimcd dcbut album - . Vith
produccr Howic Tcc bchind thc mixing boards and J Aksun on thc turn
tablcs, hc crcatcd thc now classic singlc ! Got !t Madc. Spccial ds clcvcr
wordplay combincd with Vcst !ndiantingcd intonations and uniquc
rhymc llows immcdiatcly cstablishcd him as onc ol thc cras lincst cmcccs.
Hc thcn rclcascd a sccond classic singlc, Thc Magniliccnt. (!t should bc
notcd that both ol thcsc singlcs havc sincc bccn rcmadc, Shaquillc Ncal
covcrcd ! Got !t Madc, and Rick Ross rcworkcd Thc Magniliccnt.)
Thc lollowing ycar, Spccial d rclcascd his lollowup album , which
spawncd thc succcsslul singlcs n a Mission and CMon Lcts Movc !t.
Spccial d has sincc rclcascd two morc albums, - and
, as wcll as - .
!n 1994, Spccial d joincd lorccs with 8uckshot and Masta Acc to
lorm thc supcrgroup thc Crooklyn odgcrs. Thc group rccordcd a singlc
song, Crooklyn, lor thc Spikc Lcc lilm ol thc samc titlc. Spccial d has
also displaycd acting chops, having appcarcd on T\s - , as
wcll as thc lilms and . !n addition to thcsc lcats, hc is also an
accomplishcd produccr who has madc tracks lor thc likcs ol Tupac Shakur
and thc Notorious 8.!.G.
Having inllucnccd cmcccs as divcrsc as Snoop ogg and JayZ, Spc
cial d has madc an indcliblc mark on thc rap gamc. At thc timc ol this

SPC!AL
165
intcrvicw, Spccial d was prcparing his lilth studio album lor rclcasc on his
own SM! Rccords labcl.
-
Thc unilication ol a culturc.
- - - -

8asically, il ! was walking through thc ncighborhood, or walking through
school, and lound that thcrc was somconc who was a scllproclaimcd cm
ccc, wc would havc to put it to thc tcst. ! uscd to battlc walking homc lrom
school. ! rcmcmbcr bugging out in thc school yard. ! just battlcd prctty
much cvcrywhcrc. nc battlc that rcally stood out happcncd whcn ! lirst
got to rasmus Hall High School. Thcrc was a dudc thcrc who was sup
poscdly thc niccst cmccc around. ! was lrcsh and ncw in thc school, and
! had to gct my wcight up, so ! stcppcd to him. ! had hcard him rhymc
somcwhcrc, and ! thought it was wack. ! was likc, Ycah, !m gonna gct
him. So wc got to thc archundcr thc arch was whcrc wc uscd to hang
outand thc battlc commcnccd. And wc battlcd lor namcs, so at thc cnd
ol thc battlc, whocvcr lost would not bc ablc to usc thcir rap namc anymorc.
And hc lost. So that was that.
Thosc battlcs taught mc to bc conlidcnt. Thcy taught mc that ! had
thc ability to achicvc succcss. Thcy taught mc to lcar no onc.
- -
Nah. At that point thc cntirc gamc changcd lor mc. Nobody was on it likc
that at that point. Thc pcoplc in my hood, thcy alrcady kncw, so it wasnt
rcally going in that dircction. !t morc likc Congratulations. Youvc workcd
hard lor it.
-
Vcll, ! laid a lcw tracks with Howic Tcc, and ! camc to thc conclusion that
! had to gct somconc to shop my dcmo around. And Truc 8luc Managc
mcnt consistcd ol somc cats lrom around thc way. ! was likc, !l you can
do somcthing with this tapc, thcn just do it. Thcy thcn shoppcd thc dcmo
and camc back with intcrcst lrom Prolilc Rccords. From thcrc it got prctty
sticky bccausc ! was only 15. So it bccamc a mattcr ol how to sign mc and
makc it lcgally binding. Altcr thcy ligurcd it out, going through thc court
systcm and all that, thc dcal bccamc ollicial.
CHAPTR TVNTYN
166
- - - --

! think my managcmcnt prctty much did as much as thcy wcrc capablc ol.
Thcy wcrc not cxpcricnccd cnough to takc mc to thc point in my carccr
whcrc ! nccdcd to bc. You know, thcy wcrc almost as ncw to thc music
industry as ! was. ! wont say it was thc blind lcading thc blind, but thcy
wcrc likc, Vhat clsc can wc do: ! dont know that thcy had thc vision to
go lurthcr than thcy wcnt.
And thc labcl . . . that situation prctty much spokc lor itscll. Prolilc
Rccords was an indcpcndcnt labcl, and thcy wcrcnt intcrcstcd in thc truth.
Thcy wcrcnt intcrcstcd in paying thcir artists. ! was on thc samc labcl as
RunMC, ana anc, and Rob 8ass, and its just a known lact that
Prolilc Rccords didnt likc to pay thcir artists. !l you dont pay, yourc going
to havc problcmscspccially with mc. That was a problcm. Thcy didnt
bclicvc in that yct. Hiphop wasnt largc cnough yct, and at that timc, thcrc
was no SoundScan. Prolilc was doing thcir own manulacturing, thcir own
distribution, and was thcir own labcl, so thcrc was no way to contcst thcir
accounting. You couldnt provc or disprovc anything, bccausc thcy probably
had livc scts ol books. So that was thc problcm with Prolilc Rccords.
-
My third album, -, was my last onc with Prolilc. 8y this timc,
thcy had lrozcn my contract and sct my carccr back quitc a bit. 8y thc timc
wc got to court, thc situation was that thcy had to pay mc X amount ol
moncy to kccp mc, and thcy didnt want to do that. So ! lound a way to gct
out through thc court systcm.
- - -
- -
!m thc typc ol pcrson whcrc il !m writing somcthing and it sounds similar
or anything likc anything anyonc clsc has donc, ! cross it out and start ovcr
lrcsh. ! dont likc any ol my stull sounding likc anyonc clsc. ! want to bc thc
lirst onc to say somcthing likc that, or thc lirst onc to rhymc that particular
word. ! mcan, thcrc arc only so many words in thc nglish languagc, but !
try not to usc thc obvious oncs or to do what cvcryonc clsc is doing.
-
- - - --
SPC!AL
167
!t kind ol camc naturally, but thcn oncc ! rcalizcd it was happcning, ! ran
with it bccausc it workcd. !ts dillcrcnt whcn yourc saying somcthing and
whcn yourc writing somcthing. So whcn ! was saying it, and it was coming
out hot, ! was likc, Ycah, !vc got to gct somc morc ol this going. !t workcd
and it lit my stylc. Plus, it madc thc rhymc that much morc intcrcsting.
-
- - -

! bclicvc QTip rcachcd out to mc, and hc was likc, Spikc Lcc is making
this movic , and hc wants this song. ! was honorcd, bccausc up
until that point ! had ncvcr bccn askcd to do anything with anyonc in that
capacity. !t was just an honor and a privilcgc. !t also gavc mc thc oppor
tunity to gct down on a lilm soundtrack, which was anothcr cxpcricncc !
had ncvcr had bclorc. ! was alrcady working with 8uckshot on somc othcr
projccts, whcn thc 8oot Camp Click lirst got togcthcr, thcy uscd my studio
a lot. So wc alrcady had a rclationship. And thcn Masta Acc is just so supcr
cool alrcady, so thcrc was no problcm. Vc all got togcthcr in thc lab and
lormulatcd thc song, and thcn wc took it to thc city whcrc wc rccordcd it.
-
-
Thc cxpcricncc rcally camc about bccausc ol Tupac. ! had originally
rcad lor a dillcrcnt rolc, but ! had not gottcn thc part. So whcn Pac was
making thc lilm, hc hit mc up likc, Ycah, wcrc in thc city and wcrc mak
ing a movic. So wc wcnt up to just chill with him, and ! casually mcn
tioncd that ! had tricd out lor thc movic and had not gottcn thc rolc. And
hc was kind ol shockcd likc, Thcy didnt givc Spccial d thc part: So
hc wcnt to thc produccrs ol thc movic and said, Spccial d is hcrc. Vhy
didnt you guys givc him a part: So duc to his inllucncc, ! got that camco.
! got to usc my own vchiclc. !nitially thcy wantcd to usc an old hardtop
Vranglcr without thc hardtop, and it lookcd rcally silly. So ! cndcd up us
ing my own car lor thc sccnc, and it was a good look.
- - -

! think thc wholc attitudc toward hiphop is, lor somconc ol my agc, morc
rclincd and cxpcricnccd. 8ccausc ol this, ! havc a dillcrcnt outlook. Somconc
CHAPTR TVNTYN
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starting out today is going to havc a complctcly dillcrcnt outlookthcyll
probably bc whcrc ! was 20 ycars ago. You know, wanting to rhymc all thc
timc, wanting to cyphcr, wanting to battlc and lrccstylc. !m past all ol that
now. ! want to makc moncy and ! want to put out quality music. ! want
to kind ol tcach thc youth how to act. ! want to try and sct an cxamplc at
this point, whcrcas bclorc, whcn ! lirst startcd out 20 ycars ago, ! was in a
dillcrcnt mindsct. ! just wantcd a namc! wantcd to bc rccognizcd as a
talcntcd cmccc. Now that ! am, my goals arc dillcrcnt. A youngcr artists
conccrns arc going to bc dillcrcnt lrom thosc ol an oldcr onc. A young
kid listcning to hiphop is probably just intcrcstcd in thc moncy and thc
llashincss ol it all, ! want moncy, ! want chains, ! want cars, ! want to bc
lamous, ctc. My goals arc complctcly dillcrcnt lrom all that. ! think thats
just a dillcrcncc that comcs with agc and wisdom.
-
- - --
clinitcly, bccausc !m conccrncd with what my kids listcn to and what
thcy rcpcat. For mc its likc, il !m cvcn writing a rhymc and ! start to writc
somcthing thats a littlc bit too rccklcss, ! think about my kids listcning to
it. ! think, would this bc okay lor thcm to hcar: Vhat could ! do to makc
this morc suitablc, or lcss rccklcss: Thc imagcs that wc put into thc minds
ol thc youth lcavc a lasting imprcssion, so thcsc days !m much morc con
scious about what !m saying.
!ts kind ol hard to control what your childrcn arc hcaring on thc radio
now bccausc thcrc is lcss ccnsorship. Vhcn wc wcrc coming up, you couldnt
say ccrtain things. ! mcan, cvcn just on thc album vcrsion. Thc labcl would
ccnsor what you wcrc saying, and you couldnt just bc rccklcss. And nowadays
you can prctty much say or do anything you want with no rccoursc.
- -
-- - - - --
- -
!ll tcll you thc honcst truth: ! dont lccl likc it pcrsonally bccausc !m mc,
and !m a humblc pcrson. ! could act thc way somc artists choosc to act
and lct it go to my hcad, but ! dont lccl that thats thc right thing to do.
Thats not rightcous. !n my mind, you havc to rcmain rcalistic about lilc
and thc world. ntcrtainmcnt and show busincss arc complctcly scparatc
SPC!AL
169
lrom thc rcst ol thc world, you havc to scparatc thc two things. 8ut !m
honorcd by thosc things that you mcntioncd. ! do undcrstand it. Twcnty
ycars is quitc a bit ol timc, and thcrc arc kids who actually grcw up lis
tcning to mc. Thc samc way ! grcw up listcning to and idolizing ccrtain
artists, thcrc arc kids who grcw up idolizing and listcning to mc. !ts an
honor lor mc to cvcn bc a part ol thc history ol hiphop, much lcss to bc
considcrcd a lcgcnd. You know, ! acccpt it humbly, and !m honorcd by
it. ! just apprcciatc thc lact that !m apprcciatcd. Vhcn pcoplc rclcrcncc
mc and do covcrs ol my songs, its just a tcstamcnt to thc lact that ! did
do somcthing that was honorablc or grcat to thc cxtcnt that somconc
would mimic mc or cvcn acknowlcdgc mc. Somctimcs ! just wish that
artists wcrc morc truthlul and honcst and had thc pcrsona whcrc thcy
didnt havc too much pridc to givc anothcr man props. ! lind that, as a
grown man, thats onc ol thc most dillicult things to doto acknowlcdgc
or givc rcspcct to anothcr grown man lor somcthing that hcs donc. And
whcn pcoplc do givc mc thosc props, !m honorcd by it. !m glad to havc
bccn ablc to havc donc what !vc donc in this short amount ol timc, and
thc lact is that !m not linishcd. Thcrcs morc to comc.
-
- -- -

Thc mcdia and thc largc corporations. Thcy camc in and saw thc incomc
potcntial lor hiphop, and thcn thcy movcd in. Now what sclls is prctty
much whatcvcr thcy push onto you. Pcoplc arc programmablc in that
scnscwhatcvcr is rcpctitivc is what sticks now. Thcy kind ol bcat you ovcr
thc hcad with whatcvcr music thcy want to lorcclccd you. Rcal hiphop
and thc cultural aspcct ol hiphop is no longcr bcing rcspcctcd as it was
by thc masscs. This is bccausc thc mcdia has injcctcd us with bullshit lor
so long. So its kind ol dillicult to stay truc to what yourc doing whcn thc
music thats sclling is somcthing thats complctcly dillcrcnt. That comcs
along with gcnocidc and thc attcmpt to corrupt a racc or a culturc, thcy
inlcst us with bullshit in thc hopcs that wcll cithcr kill cach othcr oll or do
what thc rccords say and bccomc drug addicts and victims. Thats prctty
much whcrc its at right now. Thcrcs still a chancc to takc hiphop back,
but wc havc to work at it.
CHAPTR TVNTYN
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1. - (1989)
2. (1990)
3. - (1995)
4. - (2000)
5. (2004)
171

C
hcryl Salt Jamcs and Sandra Pcpa cnton lormcd thc group
SaltNPcpa (originally dubbcd Supcrnaturc) in 1985. Thc
lollowing ycar, thcy rclcascd thcir dcbut album,
-. That samc ycar, thc group rcplaccd thcir J, Latoya Hanson, with
a 16ycarold turntablist namcd cidra Ropcr (a.k.a. Spindcrclla). Thc
group scorcd modcratc hits with thc singlcs My Mic Sounds Nicc,
Tramp, and Chick on thc Sidc, but would bccomc cnormously succcss
lul with thc smash hit Push !t. 8oth thc singlc and thc album would scll
morc than a million copics, making SaltNPcpa thc lirst lcmalc hiphop
act to go gold or platinum. Thc group would also rcccivc a Grammy nomi
nation lor thc singlc. Two ycars latcr, SaltNPcpa rclcascd thcir sccond
album, which lcaturcd thc hit collaboration with
Vashington, .C., gogo group U, Shakc Your Thang. Thc album
would ultimatcly go platinum, making SaltNPcpa thc lirst lcmalc hip
hop act to go gold or platinum morc than oncc. Thcy also rcccivcd thcir
sccond Grammy nomination lor Shakc Your Thang.
Thc groups third album, 1990s - , would lcaturc a slightly
dillcrcnt sound. Thc album, which wcnt platinum, was thc lirst to lcaturc
Spindcrclla on vocals, as wcll as thc lirst ol thcir albums not produccd
cntircly by Hurby Luv 8ug Azor. Thc album lcaturcd thrcc hit singlcs
in xprcssion, o You Vant Mc, and thc Grammynominatcd Lcts
Talk about Scx. !n 1993, thc group rclcascd thcir lourth album,
--. Thc album lcaturcd thrcc smash hits with Shoop, Vhatta Man,

CHAPTR TVNTYTV
172
and Nonc ol Your 8usincss, and sold morc than livc million copics. Salt
NPcpa would ultimatcly rcccivc two Grammy nominations lor Vhatta
Man and Nonc ol Your 8usincss, winning lor thc lattcr. !n 1997, Salt
NPcpa rclcascd thcir lilth album, , which again wcnt gold. !n
2002, thc group disbandcd but has rcunitcd to pcrlorm thcir hits on thc
2005 HipHop Honors and thc 2008 8T HipHop Awards.
Today, Spindcrclla is a rcspcctcd radio pcrsonality on KK8T 100.3
in Los Angclcs, whcrc shc cohosts thc nationally syndicatcd old school
radio show . Shc has also appcarcd in thc lilms
and .
-
!ts a culturc. !ts a lccling. !ts thc voicc ol thc strcct. !ts thc voicc ol a
gcncration that basically didnt havc a voicc.
-
Thc lirst timc ! hcard somcthing that was dillcrcnt was whcn ! was about
10 ycars old, and it was a Fatback 8and song. ! was prctty young, but !
rcalizcd at thc timc that what ! was hcaring was somcthing dillcrcnt. ! had
grown up on my dads music, which was thc soullul classics, you know, thc
old lunk and disco. To hcar this typc ol sound, it was rcally somcthing dil
lcrcnt. 8ut ! didnt rcally know what it was, and ! didnt rcally lall in lovc
with it, until ! hcard 8oogic own Productions. That was whcn ! rcally
lcll in lovc with hiphop.

! ncvcr rcally rcalizcd ! wantcd to bc a J. ! just kind ol pickcd it up along
thc way. !n high school, my boylricnd was a local J. Hc basically showcd
mc dillcrcnt typcs ol scratchcs and stull. ! uscd to hclp him carry his rc
cords at partics. nc day ! got up thcrc on his sct and just startcd mcssing
around, and hc was likc, Lct mc hcar you do this . . . Now lct mc hcar
you do that . . . And thcn that would bccomc thc routinc. ! would practicc
with him, and hc would show mc dillcrcnt cuts. Vc would listcn to music
and cut up brcakbcats.
- - -
- -
! auditioncd lor thcm. Thcy wcrc nccding a J lor thcir lirst tour, which
was thc Fat 8oys Vipc ut Tour. Somconc that ! kncw lrom school
SP!NRLLA
173
askcd mc il ! would bc intcrcstcd in dccjaying lor a group. Shc didnt say
what it was or who it was. So ! was likc, All right, cool. That sounds
cool. And by this timc, ! had rcally startcd dccjaying. ! was in thc proccss
ol lcarning, and that night ! got a call lrom Hurby Azor, who was Salt
NPcpas managcr at thc timc. Hc told mc that it was SaltNPcpa, and
! was likc, Vow, this is crazy. ! auditioncd lor thcm immcdiatcly altcr
that, and ! got thc job.
- ---
- -- -

8asically thcy wcrc thc samc obstaclcs that any woman has to ovcrcomc
in any carccr choicc. You know, proving your worth, your talcnt . . . Vc
just basically tricd to avoid looking at what thosc obstaclcs wcrc. !nstcad
wc lookcd bcyond thcm and continucd to grow past thcm. Somc ol thc
obstaclcs wcrc thcsc guys who would say, Vcll, thcyrc onchit wondcrs,
or Thcyrc cutc, or somcthing likc that. Vc provcd othcrwisc. Vc provcd
that wc had actual talcnt.
- - -
- --
Ycah, but you know, it was good. Vhcn you work twicc as hard, you bc
comc bcttcr than thosc who arc against you. !t madc us sharpcr.
--
-- -
Ycah, ! gct a lot ol rcspcct. A lot ol artists sccm to rcspcct thc path that
wc laid. Thcrc wcrc lcmalc artists who camc bclorc us that wc owc a dcbt
ol gratitudc to, as wcll. Vc wcrc not thc lirst, although wc did opcn somc
doors to thc mainstrcam. Vc wcrcnt thc lirst. You havc to rcspcct thc
bricklaycrs, thc pionccrs. 8ut ycs, wc do gct a lot ol rcspcct lrom thc lcmalc
artists ol today and ol thc past. 8ut it wasnt just us. Thcrc wcrc a hand
lul ol lcmalcs who wcrc making noisc. Somc ol thcm could brcak into thc
mainstrcam, and somc couldnt, but that docsnt takc away lrom thcir talcnt
or thcir contributions to hiphop.
- -
-
CHAPTR TVNTYTV
174
Just bcing on thc road. Vc had a lot ol lun on thc road, although somc
timcs it was brutal. Vc basically grcw up togcthcr on thc road. ! think ol
thc pranks, thc shows thcmsclvcs, and practicing lor thc shows. 8ack in thc
day, you couldnt bc a hiphop act and scll out an arcna without having an
R&8typc artist on thc bill with you. So lor us to bc ablc to do thatto scll
out arcnaswas amazing. !m vcry proud to bc ablc to say that wc did that,
bccausc at that timc, thcy wcrcnt allowing hiphop to play in arcnas likc
that. So lor SaltNPcpa to bc ablc to pcrlorm at that lcvcl, and to scll out
thosc arcnas, was bcautilul. Vc had a grcat run. ur pcrlormanccs would
probably bc thc most mcmorablc momcnts lor mc.
- -
-
No. |Laughs.| Simply no. ! dont mind doing it, but it was just onc ol thc
talcnts ! was cxhibiting. ! had a lot ol lun with it, but no. !m a J. Thats
what ! am. Thats my lovc.
- - -- -
-
- --
h ycs, ol coursc. ! wouldnt say that !m pcrsonally ollcndcd, but ! do lccl
that artists havc a rcsponsibility to thc gcncration listcning to thc music.
Artists dont gct into thc industry to bc ccnsorcd. Thcy just want to do
thcm, thcy want to bc thcmsclvcs. Most ol thcmnot all, but mosttcll
thcir own storics and spcak lrom thcir own truths and cxpcricnccs. 8ut thc
lact is that thcsc songs arc an inllucncc on a largc part ol a gcncration. So
whcn you spcak that way to womcn, continuously calling thcm out, thcn
yourc going to havc young womcn bclicving thosc things about thcmsclvcs.
Thcyll start rcciting it, and bclicving it. So !m not rcally taking ollcnsc
to it, bccausc ! know thcyrc not talking about mc, but ! would hopc that
artists would takc into considcration just how inllucntial thcir music is.
Songs likc that could potcntially dcstroy a womans scllcstccm. Artists
may not want to bc a rolc modcl, but oncc you arc thrust into that light,
you bccomc a rolc modcl bccausc young pcoplc look up to you. So what
you say is important.
- - - -
- - --
SP!NRLLA
175
!t was young, it was lun, thcrc was a varicty, it was widc opcn. !t wasnt
so taxcd or so controllcd. !t was at its bcst whcn it was uncontrollcd. And
cvcrything wasnt rosy back thcn cithcr. Lcts not lorgct that. 8ut thcrc was
morc varicty, and you could choosc what you likcd. !l you likcd thc Fat
8oys, you likcd thc Fat 8oys, il you likcd PM . . . il you likcd SaltN
Pcpa . . . You could listcn to what you wantcd to. 8ut thcn whcn thc music
startcd bccoming morc controllcd, it rcmovcd thc intcgrity lrom it. 8ack
thcn it was a lot morc lun. You would run homc to listcn to it, bccausc back
thcn, thcy didnt play your lavoritc song 20 timcs an hour. Thc old school
radio Js madc you apprcciatc thc music. And it wasnt just about moncy
back thcn, it was about an actual lovc lor thc music.
- - -
- - -
- -
!m a J, so ! lovc it. |Laughs.| 8ut both thc J and thc cmccc should
bc rcspcctcd, bccausc both arc intcgral parts that makc up thc wholc. !ts
important that thc J rcspccts thc cmccc, and thc othcr way around. And
back in thc day, thc cmcccs did havc rcspcct lor thc J. Artists uscd to
dcdicatc cntirc songs to thc Js and big up thc J. SaltNPcpa put mc out
lront. RunMC put Jam Mastcr Jay out in thc lront. You had J Jazzy
Jcll and thc Frcsh Princc. Thcy madc surc thc J was a part ol thc group.
!l wc could gct that back again, it would probably changc thc cntirc sctup,
and onc wouldnt bc abovc thc othcr. 8ut Js arc gctting it right now, and
its a bcautilul thing, but ! havc mad rcspcct and lovc lor thc cmccc.

1. (1988) |as SaltNPcpa|

2. - (1990) |as SaltNPcpa|
3. - (1990) |as SaltNPcpa|
4. -- (1993) |as SaltNPcpa|
5. (1997) |as SaltNPcpa|
6. - (2000) |as SaltNPcpa|
7. - (2008) |as SaltNPcpa|
176

8
rooklyn cmccc Sticky Fingaz joincd thc group nyx altcr thcy had
alrcady rclcascd thc 1990 singlc Ah, and Vc o !t Likc This on
Prolilc Rccords. !n 1992, thc group, which also includcd Frcdro
Starr, Sonscc, and 8ig S, rclcascd thc undcrground anthcm Throw Ya
Gunz. This was lollowcd by thc highly anticipatcd dcbut album
, which was cxccutivc produccd by RunMCs Jam Mastcr Jay. Thc
album, which spawncd thc platinumsclling numbcr onc singlc Slam,
would cvcntually bc listcd to magazincs 1998 list ol thc 100
grcatcst hiphop albums cvcr madc. Thc album cstablishcd thc group, and
its loudcst mcmbcr, Sticky Fingaz, as lcrocious cmcccs willing to battlc
anyonc. Thcir tradcmark stylc ol drcss, which consistcd ol bald hcads, black
latigucs, and Timbcrland boots, had a trcmcndous impact on hiphop and
soon bccamc a popular stylc ol drcss lor lcgions ol hiphop lans, as wcll
as othcr groups such as RunMC and a Youngstas. Thc groups raspy
growling vocal dclivcry would also bc imitatcd by many, many hiphop
acts in thc ycars to comc. Thc group thcn dabblcd in hiphop/rock lusion
by collaborating with thc hcavy mctal group 8iohazard on both thc Slam
rcmix and thc titlc song lrom thc lilm soundtrack.
Thc groups sccond album, -, was rclcascd in 1995.
Vhilc thc album wouldnt lind thc samc commcrcial succcss thcir dcbut
album had, it would ultimatcly rcach numbcr two on thc Top R&8/Hip
Hop Albums chart and rcccivc glowing critical rcvicws. Thc album, which
wcnt gold and produccd thc singlcs Last ayz, All Vc Got !z Us,

ST!CKY F!NGAZ
177
Livc Niguz, and Valk in Ncw York, was latcr namcd thc bcstproduccd
album ol 1995 by magazinc and sclcctcd as onc ol thc magazincs
Twcnty Albums All HipHop Fans Must wn (8ut May Havc Misscd).
Thc groups third album, , was rclcascd in 1998. Thc
album oncc again rcccivcd stcllar critical rcvicws and lcaturcd thc singlcs
Rcact (lcaturing 50 Ccnt), Shut m own (lcaturing MX), and
Thc Vorst (lcaturing VuTang Clan). Thc album markcd thc groups
highcst dcbut on thc 200, pcaking at numbcr 10.
!n 2000, Sticky Fingaz madc a mcmorablc appcarancc on thc mi
ncm classic Rcmcmbcr Mc, providing a lcgcndary vcrsc and managing
to outshinc mincm on his own album. Thc lollowing ycar Sticky Fingaz
rclcascd his lirst solo album, - -,
on Univcrsal Rccords. Thc album, which showcascd a morc maturc Sticky
Fingaz, lcaturcd thc singlc Gct !t Up and was critically wcll rcccivcd.
Two ycars latcr, hc rclcascd his lollowup album,
- -. Thc album, rclcascd by 3 ntcrtainmcnt, lcaturcd production
by Scott Storch and appcaranccs by Missy lliott, mar pps, and Frcdro
Starr.
Sticky Fingaz has also lound a prospcring carccr as an actor. Hc madc
his acting dcbut in thc 1995 Spikc Lcc lilm -. Hc has sincc appcarcd
in many lilms including --, , and
. Hc has also madc a big splash in tclcvision, playing a rccurring
charactcr on , appcaring as a rcgular on thc scrics , and
playing thc lcad rolc in thc shortlivcd scrics . !n 2009, hc wrotc, di
rcctcd, and starrcd in thc lilm . Thc lilm, notablc lor bcing
thc lirst lilm cvcr madc in which all ol its dialoguc is rappcd, also starrcd
Mckhi Philcr, mar pps, Michacl Rapaport, and 8okccm Voodbinc.
-
! think thc standard answcr that cvcryonc would givc is that its a culturc,
and dadadada, but ! dont rcally look at it likc that. ! just look at it likc
its my lilc. Thats what !vc bccn doing lor as long as ! can rcmcmbcr.
- -
! was probably 10 or 12, and thc big thing to mc was dccjaying. ! always
wantcd to bc a J back thcn. ! wantcd to bc a J so bad that ! askcd my
mothcr to gct mc somc turntablcs lor Christmas, and as poor as wc wcrc,
shc got mc turntablcs and a mixcr. Thcsc wcrcnt thc Tcchnic 1200s with
CHAPTR TVNTYTHR
178
thc swivcl arms, thcsc wcrc somc straightarm turntablcs. 8ut ! still madc
it work. ! grcw up to RunMC. You know, onc ol thc dudcs ! likcd back
in thc day was Frcsh Princc. And it wasnt likc Parcnts Just ont Un
dcrstand. ! mcan, that was cool, but hc had somc hardcr, witty lrccstylcs
that hc was doing. And ! uscd to mcmorizc cvcrybodys rhymcs. My big
thing, lor a long pcriod ol my lilc, lrom likc 15 to my carly 20s, was that
thcrc wasnt anything that ! didnt know in hiphop. ! kncw cvcry artist
and ! kncw cvcry song. ! kncw all ol thcir lyrics, and ! could rccitc thcm
lrontwards and backwards. ! could probably say it bcttcr than thc actual
artist was saying it. Slick Rick was onc ol my alltimc lavoritc rappcrs on
thc planct. You know, hc had thc storics and cvcrything. Hc was just so
ill. Hc uscd to play othcr charactcrs and shit . . . !n lact, ! think Slick Rick
madc mc want to rap. Thcn you had 8ig addy Kanc, who was hardcorc,
but was still doing thc dancc movcs with Scoop and Scrap Lovcr. Thosc
wcrc my carlicst mcmorics . . . back in thc Sparky days. Roxannc Shantc,
UTF, 8iz Markic . . .
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! startcd out biting cvcrybodys rhymcs. Likc ! said, ! kncw cvcrybodys
rhymcs, and ! would say thcm. ! wouldnt usc thcir rhymcs in a battlc. Vcll,
onc timc ! did. ! stolc Frcsh Princcs rhymc lrom an undcrground lrccstylc
hc had donc back whcn hc was making pausc tapcs. That rhymc was so ill
that whcn ! was lrccstyling against somcbody onc day, ! uscd that rhymc.
And nobody cvcr kncw about it, bccausc unlcss you wcrc on thc undcr
ground circuit making pausc tapcs likc ! was, you would ncvcr havc hcard
that rhymc. Hc ncvcr put that rhymc out on a rccord or anything. So whcn
! lirst startcd rhyming, ! was stcaling pcoplcs rhymcs! |Laughs.| Thcn in
timc, slowly but surcly, ! startcd making my own rhymcs. And thcn ! lound
out that ! was a lot bcttcr than a lot ol thc pcoplc whosc rhymcs ! had bccn
biting at lirst.

nyx had signcd a singlc dcal with Prolilc Rccords. Thc singlc was callcd
Ah, and Vc o !t Likc This. !t was a dopc song. !t wasnt thc nyx
sound that wc know today, but actually ! think thcy wcrc ahcad ol thcir
timc. Thcy wcrc kind ol singing, and thats whcrc hiphop is at right this
sccond. So thcy wcrc likc 20 ycars ahcad ol thcir timc. 8ut thcy wcrcnt
gctting along with Prolilc, and Prolilc probably wasnt gctting along with
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thcm. So it was a mutual thing, and thcy got oll thc labcl. Thcn thcy startcd
to shop lor a ncw dcal.
Now ! wasnt cvcn in thc group at that timc. ! was just Frcdro Starrs
littlc cousin lrom 8rooklyn. And thcy wcrc lrom Quccns. So thcy shoppcd
thcir rccord to Jam Mastcr Jay lrom RunMC, and hc took a liking to it.
8ut just likc any labcl cxcc, hc said hc likcd it but hc wantcd to hcar somc
morc stull. At that timc thcy had a managcr who was likc a last talkcr, a
onc tooth missing, working lor thc garbagc company, 40ycarold still liv
ing with his parcnts typc dudc. 8ut hc had a lot ol big idcas, and !ll givc
him that. So Sonscc and 8ig S wcrc strandcd in Connccticut or somc
placc likc that. So Jam Mastcr Jay wantcd to hcar somc morc stull, and !
just happcncd to bc thcrc. So thcir managcr at thc timc was likc, Vc dont
want to losc this dcal and thosc guys arc strandcd. So Frcdro, why dont you
takc your cousin into thc studio and just rccord somcthing so wc wont losc
this dcal. ! always uscd to rap back thcn, but ! wasnt a part ol thcir group.
! was likc a solo artist, and ! was youngcr than cvcrybody clsc. So ! wasnt
rcally looking lor a rccord dcal. ! was working in thc barbcrshop at thc timc,
so ! was comlortablc making a thousand dollars a wcck cutting high school.
Vhcn wc wcnt to thc studio wc madc two rccords. nc was callcd
Stick and Movc and thc othcr was callcd xcrcisc. And thcy both wcrc
crazy! Vhcn Jay hcard thc songs hc was likc, Yo, ! lovc thc group. And
wc lound out ycars latcr that it was bctwccn nyx and Common Scnsc!
Thcn whcn it camc timc to sign thc group, it was just thc othcr thrcc guys
thcrc. ! had just bccn doing thcm a lavor, and ! didnt cxpcct to bc a part ol
thc group or anything likc that. And Jay was likc, Vait a minutc. Vhcrcs
thc nigga with thc dccp voicc: !m not signing yall without him. And 8ig
S didnt cvcn want mc in thc group. Sonscc didnt carc cithcr way, and
Frcdro was pctitioning lor mc. Hc said, Vcll, il my cousin isnt in thc
group, thcn !m not in it cithcr! And thats how ! got inductcd into nyx.
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Hc was incrcdiblc to work with. Hc was a grcat dudc, and hc brought in
crcdiblc cncrgy and idcas. Hc was likc a r. rc to mc. Vhcn ! wcnt into
thc studio with rc, ! saw that hc just has a way ol pulling thc bcst out
ol you without cvcn trying. And Jam Mastcr Jay was likc that. Hc was so
important that hc was likc thc unollicial lilth mcmbcr ol nyx. Hc hclpcd
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with thc production and hc lct us know what was hot and what was not.
Hc was thc cxccutivc produccr, and hc was thc onc who brought us to cl
Jam. Hc was vcry, vcry important.
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!t was likc a whirlwind. !t was likc a 10 to 15 ycar whirlwind. !t was likc !
jumpcd into that whirlwind and thcn 15 ycars latcr ! was likc, Holy shit!
Vhat just happcncd: !t was crazy.
And whcn nyx lirst startcd, ! was going through a crazy timc in my
lilc. ! had just run away lrom homc, and onc ol nyxs main produccrs
had just gottcn murdcrcd. And wc should havc sccn thc signs. Hc sold his
SP1200 and thcn wcnt to Maryland to try and hustlc somc moncy. Hc
got murdcrcd, thcy shot him in thc hcad, shot him in both ol his hands.
Frcdro got kickcd out ol his housc. Thcn wc mct Jay. ! was out thcrc wylin
out, doing acid at thc timc, and ! was 16 or 17 ycars old. ! was going out
to clubs until six in thc morning . . . Vhcn ! was 15 ! gavc my mothcr an
ultimatum. ! was likc, ithcr you lct mc go and youll scc mc again, or !ll
run away and you ncvcr scc mc again. So shc had no choicc. All ol that was
happcning, and thats why you scc that transition lrom nyxs lirst singlc
on Prolilc. !t was still strcct and ghctto, bccausc that was whcrc wc wcrc
living at thc timc, but it was also on a happicr, lightcr sidc. Thcn whcn wc
camc out with thc lullllcdgcd nyx album, , it was just aggrcs
sivc and going at thc world. Vc wcrc cxpcricncing all thcsc dillcrcnt things
in our livcs at that point.
! was a vcry dcprcsscd pcrson around that timc, and ! ncvcr smilcd.
Thcrc wcrc scriously thrcc ycars ol my lilc in which ! ncvcr smilcd. ! mcan
. And that has an cllcct on your body and your mcntal statc. All !
wantcd to do at that timc was dcstroy othcr cmcccs. That was my only
purposc in lilc. ncc wc signcd that dcal, cvcrything changcd, and ! just
wantcd to dcstroy ! Vc would go to clubs and wc would bc on thc
linc battling niggas, just going lor thcir throats. And thc linc was crowdcd,
so wc had a wholc crowd to battlc, and wc wcrc just tcaring pcoplcs hcads
oll! ! was thc illcst nigga at that point in timc. Not only was ! thc ill
cst nigga cvcr in my own mind, but ! think othcr pcoplc rccognizcd mc as
that, as wcll. Vriting rhymcs was about saying thc illcst shit that you could
think ol, but not likc somconc likc 8izarrc lrom 12, who trics to say thc
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illcst shit but is morc likc on somc comcdy shit. ! was morc on somc !
hatc your lucking ass and ! hopc you lucking dic typc ol shit! !t was just
aggrcssivc, ill shit.
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! was probably angry. ! wasnt old cnough to rccognizc that imitation is thc
most sinccrc lorm ol llattcry. ! just thought niggas was bitin, you know
what !m saying: And ! was likc luck cvcrybody. That was my mcntality. !
just wantcd to dcstroy cvcrybody. At lirst, wc cvcn uscd to try and light our
lans! |Laughs.| ! rcmcmbcr thc lirst show wc did, Jam Mastcr Jay took us
to this community ccntcr, and wc pcrlormcd in lront ol a couplc hundrcd
pcoplc. And wc wcrc likc, Fuck you, to thc crowd. And whcn wc got oll
thc stagc, Jay was likc, Vhoa! Vhat arc you doing: You dont wanna diss
thc crowd! You want thcm with you and on your sidc. You show thcm lovc
and thcyll show you lovc, but dont diss thc crowd. And ! was likc, h,
okay, cool. |Chucklcs.| 8ut that was my mcntality at that timc: luck thc
world.
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Vcll, lirst ol all, bclorc wc combincd rock and hiphop, wc wcrc alrcady a
rock group. Vcrc scrcaming at thc top ol our lungs, wcrc slam dancing,
wcrc stagc diving, wcrc throwing watcr, wcrc aggrcssivc and wc light with
cach othcr onstagc. ! rcmcmbcr myscll and 8ig S had a rcal light on
stagc in lront ol thc crowd, whilc wc wcrc pcrlorming! |Laughs.| Vc kcpt
pcrlorming, and wc kcpt lighting. And cvcrybody just thought it was part
ol thc show, likc hcy, thats nyx. So what wc do dillcrcntly is that wcrc
alrcady rock. Vhcn wc mash it up with rock groups, its not likc wcrc stcp
ping out ol our lanc and doing somcthing thats not thc norm lor us. 8ut
wc wcrc also so strcct that wc almost didnt do thc 8iohazard collaboration.
That was Lyor Cohcns idca, and probably Jam Mastcr Jays, too. Hc was
likc, Lyor scnt us this ollcr. Hc wants you to do a song with this group
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callcd 8iohazard, and thcyrc hardcorc too. Vc wcrc so strcct and so hood
that wc wcrc likc, Hcll no, wc dont want to do no lucking rock and roll
shit! And Jay was likc, Trust mc, thisll bc a good movc. Jay cosigncd it,
bccausc thcy had donc that joint with Acrosmith back in thc day. Slam
was alrcady platinum bclorc wc cvcn did thc 8iohazard rcmix, so wc did it,
and it camc out dopc. Vc bondcd with thc 8iohazard dudcs. vcn though
thcy wcrc whitc, thcy wcrc niggas just likc us. !t was crazy, it was wild, it
was hardcorc. !t workcd out, so wc did somc morc songs with thcm. Thcn
! wcnt on to do songs with guys likc Slipknot. !t just lit bccausc that was
our natural cncrgy. Plus, whcn wc wcrc making thc album, wc
wcrc listcning to groups likc aslx and Nirvana. Vc wcrc inllucnccd by
both kinds ol music, so it was incorporatcd into our music.
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That was originally supposcd to bc lor r. rcs album, and actually,
Frcdro namcd rcs album . ! was in thc studio with rc, and
that was whcn hc lound out that Sugc Knight was putting out that
projcct, trying to bcat him to thc punch. Hc was likc, This is somc
bullshit. So ! was on thc phonc with Frcdro whcn rc hcard about that,
and ! told Frcdro. Hc said, Yo, just tcll rc to call that shit .
So ! told rc and hc was just likc, Vord: Hc hcard it, but hc kind ol
actcd likc it didnt cvcn rcgistcr. Lo and bchold, whcn thc album camc out
it was callcd ! Hc didnt cvcn acknowlcdgc that it was a good
idca, but whcn thc album camc out it was titlcd that. So hc listcncd to
Frcdro, Frcdro namcd that shit.
8ut that mincm joint was originally lor rcs album. ! had just lilcd
bankruptcy to gct out ol my cl Jam agrccmcnt. ! had bccn likc, Yo, !
wanna makc a solo album, and Frcdro and Sonscc wcrc likc ycah, go do
that. Thcrc was no bccl. Thcy mc to do a solo album. So ! wcnt to
Lyor and told him ! wantcd to do a solo album, and hc told mc that undcr
our contract hc only had to givc mc 8250,000. ! was likc, 8250,000: !m
on lirc right now. ! could probably gct a million dollars lrom anybody right
now. Arc you crazy: So ! suggcstcd that ! go to anothcr labcl and gct a
million dollars to makc an album and thcn hc could just takc an ovcrridc.
And hc said, !m not in thc busincss ol ovcrridcs. ! was likc, Vord:
Thcn my lawycr told mc ! could gct out ol my contract by dcclaring bank
ST!CKY F!NGAZ
183
ruptcy. Hc told mc it would mcss up my crcdit lor scvcn ycars, but that all
my contracts would bc dissolvcd. ! was likc, Fuck crcdit. !d rathcr dissolvc
my contracts and go gct that million dollars and havc cash. Vho nccds
crcdit whcn youvc got cash: So ! lilcd bankruptcy and ! wcnt out to LA
to do movics. Vhcn ! got thcrc thc lirst pcrson ! callcd was r. rc. ! said,
Rcmcmbcr you told mc il ! cvcr got out ol my dcal to comc and scc you
and youd givc mc a solo dcal, right: Hc said, Ycah, and ! said, Vcll,
!m lrcc and !m in LA right now. Hc askcd mc whcrc ! was, and ! told
him ! was at somc girls crib and ! didnt havc a car or a placc to stay. That
nigga got mc a rcntal car and thrcw mc up in a nicc hotcl. Thc ncxt day
!m in thc studio with him, and hc was working on a Snoop ogg rccord.
Hc said, ! want you to do this song. !ts gonna bc you, R8X, and mincm
lor my album.
! murdcrcd that shit. ! wrotc that rhymc in two hours. Thcn thc illcst
part ol thc wholc thing is that mincm rccordcd his vcrsc latcr, and hc told
mc, Yo, it took mc two months to writc that rhymc to comc altcr you. !
thought hc was just talking shit and trying to makc mc lccl good, but latcr
rc told mc thc samc thing. !t took mincm two months to writc that
vcrsc to comc altcr you. And ! was likc, amn, thats ill. ! wrotc that
shit in two hours. 8ut likc ! said, rc just pullcd thc bcst out ol mc. Plus
its so casy to writc to r. rc bcats bccausc thcyrc so ill. !l you cant writc
a rhymc to a r. rc bcat, you nccd to lind a ncw carccr.
! wantcd to body cvcrybody with my own solo shit. ! told Frcdro, You
watch: my album is gonna scll 10 million copics. !m gonna go diamond.
And it didnt do that. 8ut thc nigga who did that was 50 Ccnt, whom wc
gavc his start to on our song Rcact. Hc wcnt diamond. Hc did what !
wantcd to do, and hc did it with r. rc. ! was supposcd to sign with rc,
but ! didnt. ! wcnt back to Ncw York to shop my dudc X1, and ! wcnt to
Univcrsal. Thcy wcrc likc, Vc likc him, but wc want to hcar somc ol your
shit. 8ut ! didnt want to play my shit, ! wantcd to sign with r. rc. !
wantcd to gct my man X1 signcd. And thcy said, Thats cool, but can wc
just hcar somc shit: So ! lct thcm hcar it, and thcy wcrc likc, X1 is dopc,
but wc want to sign you. Thcy said, Vc dont want to gct into a bidding
war with Jimmy !ovinc, bccausc wc will losc, but wcll givc you a proposal.
And thcy gavc mc a proposal lor 8800,000. rc had gonc to Jimmy !ovinc
and told him that ! wantcd a million dollars, but Jimmy !ovinc said hc
would only givc mc 8500,000. So ! wcighcd that 8500,000 at Altcrmath
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against thc 8800,000 thcy wcrc ollcring mc at Univcrsal. ! should prob
ably havc takcn thc 8500,000 just to work with rc. You know thcy had
that comic book callcd : Vcll, ! always wondcr what would havc
happcncd il ! had signcd with rc instcad ol Univcrsal. 8ut that 8300,000
dillcrcncc was thc moncy that ! uscd to buy my mothcr thc lirst housc that
shc cvcr owncd in hcr cntirc lilc, so ! would ncvcr changc that.
And that was whcn rc was going through all that bccl and crazi
ncss with Sugc Knight and Tupac Shakur. !m a hothcadcd nigga. ! uscd
to carry guns and wild out. So il ! had bccn with rc during all that bccl
shit, ! would probably cithcr bc dcad or in jail lor murdcr. So who knows:
Maybc ! did choosc thc right road. ! mcan, !m still hcrc and !m still alivc
and kicking. !vc still got grcat potcntial, and now !m dirccting and making
my own movics.
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!t all startcd with -. ! always wantcd to do an album that was a
movic, and sincc ! makc both movics and albums it madc scnsc. !t startcd
with this onc song callcd Can You Hcar Mc: ! wrotc this song lor mc
and Frcdro. Rcmcmbcr thc timc whcn thc ccll phoncs would brcak up all
thc timc and thcy had thc commcrcials and all that: ! wrotc thc song likc
wc wcrc just talking on thc phonc, as opposcd to thc normal rap. !vc got
a lricnd who said hc kncw somconc who had camcras and would shoot it
lor lrcc. ! was likc, Vord: ! was so cxcitcd about shooting that ! hadnt
cvcn linishcd thc script. ! had thc cntirc script in my hcad alrcady, and !
would just writc it sccnc by sccnc. ! would say, Today wcrc gonna shoot
this sccnc. You say this and this. Thcn thc ncxt wcck ! would writc an
othcr sccnc. kay, now wcrc gonna shoot this sccnc. ! didnt want to do
it propcrly, which was to sit down and writc thc cntirc script and thcn go
out and lilm it. ! wantcd to gct it donc. So ! had maybc 15 minutcs shot
and onc ol my homcboys told mc, Vhatcvcr moncy you raisc, !ll match
it. That madc it casicr on mc. Thcn my homcboy mar, who was basi
cally thc amc ash ol thc situation, told mc that Lionsgatc wantcd to scc
thc movic. 8ut thc mcsscd up part is that thc placc whcrc wc wcrc cditing
didnt havc a \ burncr, so ! couldnt put it on \ to bring it to Lion
sgatc. So ! said, Yo, il ! was JayZ and you wcrc amc ash, amc ash
ST!CKY F!NGAZ
185
would makc Lionsgatc comc to thc cditing studio to scc thc lilm. And hc
said, All right, !ll call you back. So wc playcd thc lootagc lor Lionsgatc
in thc cditing studio and thcy wcrc likc, ont show this to anyonc clsc.
Vcll havc a proposal lor you by thc cnd ol thc wcck. And by thc cnd ol
thc wcck thcy gavc mc thc proposal, and it got put out by Lionsgatc.
First ! would start shooting with good unknown actors, and thcn !
would call my good known actor lricnds and show thcm thc lootagc. Thcy
wcrc all likc, This is dopc. !vc ncvcr sccn any shit likc this. !m on board.
So ! would usc onc actor to gct anothcr actor to gct anothcr actor. nc ol
thc lirst actors to sign on was Faizon Lovc. Thcn Ray J. got down. Thcn
Mckhi Philcr got down. Thcn mar pps got down. Thcn Michacl Ra
paport got down. ! would show Mckhi Faizons sccncs. Thcn ! would show
mar pps Mckhis sccncs. Thcn ! would show Michacl Rapaport all ol
thcir sccncs! !t was just likc dominocs.
You know, ! ncvcr rcally likcd thc songanddancc typc movics. And
! didnt likc that thcy had rcgular dialoguc sccncs. ! lclt likc il it was going
to bc a musical, it should bc a complctc musical lrom bcginning to cnd.
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Not only arc somc ol thc youngcr guys throwing out somc bullshit, but
thcyrc not taking thc timc to pcrlcct thcir cralt. And thc !ntcrnct is mak
ing it acccssiblc lor thcm, too. 8clorc you had to havc a rccord dcal to bc
hcard by thc public. Now Joc 8low can gct hcard and cvcn gct his vidco out
thcrc lor pcoplc to scc. Rcmcmbcr how ! said mincm took two months to
writc his rhymc lor Rcmcmbcr Mc: Thats thc cralt ol thc wholc thing
right thcrc. Pcoplc dont spcnd that kind ol timc on thcir shit anymorc.
Somctimcs it would takc mc two months to writc a rhymc. Thats thc cralt.
Thats pcrlccting it and trying to makc it pcrlcct. !ts likc cooking lood to
pcrlcction as opposcd to just throwing somcthing in thc microwavc. Nowa
days pcoplc arc just throwing somcthing in thc microwavc instcad ol rcally
cooking somcthing mcaninglul and good. ! comc lrom that agc and ! still
work hard on my music.
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!ts totally not thc radio stations lault. A radio station is a busincss just likc
any othcr, and thcy havc to kccp thcir lights on. !l youvc got onc cmccc
that you rcally lovc and you want to play his music, you might play it on a
mix show lcvcl, but you want to add it so its on thc daytimc playlist as wcll.
8ut thcn you havc a labcl comc by and thcy say, Hcrcs 850,000 and wc
want you to play - song instcad. And thcyvc got to do what thcy havc to
do to kccp thcir lights on. Thc payola is thc problcm. !ts thc rccord labcls
who arc paying radio stations to play thcir rccords. Thats how you blow a
rccord up today. vcrybody knows that. !ts not a sccrct. So il !m a J at
a radio station, ! havc to listcn to my program dircctor. And thc program
dircctor has to listcn to whocvcrs paying him to play that shit. And thcrc
arc somc mix show Js likc Funkmastcr Flcx or Kay Slay or J Cluc who
try to spin somc rcal rccords on that lcvcl, but as lar as rcal hiphop gctting
addcd to thc rcgular rotation, that docsnt happcn bccausc thc rccord com
panics arc paying to havc this othcr stull playcd. And most rccord cxccs arc
old and whitc, and thc oncs that arc black arc old and scarcd ol losing thcir
jobs. And somctimcs that probably mcans signing somc pop artists that
thcy dont rcally lccl in thcir boncs as opposcd to signing a rcally ill artist
that thcy do lccl. Thcyvc got to do what thcyvc got to do. Thats why somc
artists, no mattcr how hood or strcct thcy may bc, havc to havc somc kind
ol commcrcial rccord to gct thc rccord companics to gct bchind linancially.
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Vhat do you mcan:
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bviously that no longcr mattcrs. Rick Ross is a grcat cxamplc. !t com
plctcly balllcs mc. Vhcn that shit camc out |that hc was a lormcr prison
ST!CKY F!NGAZ
187
guard and not a drug dcalcr| and hc complctcly dcnicd it, and thcn thcy had
picturcs to provc that hc was lying, ! rcally bclicvcd his carccr was ovcr. And
so did 50 Ccnt. Thats why hc was going at him so hard. And ! think that
Rick Ross is rcally thc only pcrson whos bcatcn 50 Ccnt in a battlc. And
thc rcason ! say hc bcat him is bccausc hcs still currcnt. Hcs still making
songs with guys likc JayZ and Pully and all ol thc top artists ol today,
whcrcas whcn 50 had a bccl with Ja Rulc, niggas wcrc alraid to do a song
with Ja Rulc! Thcy didnt want 50 mad at thcm. vcn mc . . . Vhcn 50 and
myscll wcrc throwing jabs at onc anothcr, ! lclt likc ! bodicd him. Hc said
thc shit about mc on How to Rob, right: Thcn ! did that shit Jackin lor
8cats, and ! lclt likc ! bodicd him. So ! didnt lccl a nccd to kccp dissing
him. Thcn ! hcard that hc had two morc littlc jabs that hc thrcw at mc in
songs, but ! took that as bcing likc whcn you bcat a niggas ass and hc still
wants to talk shit bccausc cvcrybody knows you bcat his ass. ! just ligurcd
!d lcavc it at that, and ! rcally wasnt that disrcspcctcd by him talking
about mc in How to Rob. ! actually would havc bccn morc ollcndcd il
hc hadnt talkcd about mc in that song, bccausc hc was talking about all
thc top artists. So il hc hadnt mcntioncd mc ! would havc bccn likc, So
!m not a top artist: So it was cool. ! wasnt rcally mad at him. Frcdro was
morc angry with him than ! was, and thats why Frcdro and him got into a
light at somc awards show. ! just lclt likc it was all in thc lun ol it.
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Ycah, ! think thcrc is actual mcrit to - ol it. ! think whcn yourc uscd
to cating soul lood all thc timc and thcn somcbody takcs you to a sushi
rcstaurant lor thc lirst timc, yourc gonna bc thrown oll a littlc bit. And
you know how thcy say that cvcrything gocs in lull circlc: !ts truc and !
can provc it. Vhcn nyx lirst camc out, RunMC wasnt wcaring skinny
jcans, but thcy wcrc wcaring littcd jcans. And thcn wc camc out with our
cultural rcvolution with thc baggy jcans and cvcrything, and all thc oldcr
dudcs who wcrc thc samc agc you and ! arc now, wcrc likc, 8oy, what arc
you wcaring thosc baggyass jcans lor: Pull your pants up! So now its thc
complctc oppositc. Thc youth arc now wcaring skinny jcans. And back
thcn it was all colorlul just thc way it is now. Think about it: back thcn
you had SaltNPcpa, Kid n Play doing danccs. vcn 8ig addy Kanc
CHAPTR TVNTYTHR
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was doing danccs! Thcy wcrc all doing danccs! And it did a complctc 360
and camc back around. Now wcrc thc oldcr dudcs and wcrc saying, 8oy,
what arc you wcaring thosc skinnyass jcans lor: And wc complain about
all thcsc lunnyass danccs thcyrc doing now, but wc wcrc doing thc samc
thing back thcn: thc Vop, thc PccVcc Hcrman, thc Running Man, all
that shit. So its a complctc 360, and ycah, somc ol thc music today docs
havc mcrit.

1. (1993) |as nyx|
2. - (1995) |as nyx|
3. (1998) |as nyx|
4. - - (2001)
5. (2002) |as nyx|
6. - - (2003)
7. (2003) |as nyx|
8. - - - (2008) |as nyx|
9. (2009)
10. (2011) |as nyx|
189

H
ollis, Quccns rappcr Young MC lirst discovcrcd hiphop at
thc agc ol 10. !nllucnccd by such varicd artists as Chic, 8ob
Marlcy, thc aglcs, and Parliamcnt, hc soon startcd writing
and rcciting his own rap lyrics. 8y thc timc hc attcndcd thc Univcrsity
ol Southcrn Calilornia in thc latc 1980s, hc had honcd his skills and
was rccognizcd as a talcntcd cmccc. !n 1987, hc landcd a rccording
contract with clicious \inyl Rccords altcr displaying his rapid llow
on a tclcphonc call with thc labcls owncrs. Young MC soon wcnt to
work cowriting thc songs Vild Thing and Funky Cold Mcdina
lor anothcr upandcoming rappcr namcd Tonc Loc. Young MC was
still rccording his own album whcn Vild Thing bccamc onc ol 1988s
biggcst hit singlcs, sclling morc than lour million copics. uring this
samc pcriod Young MC rclcascd thc 12" singlcs ! Lct m Know,
Thc Fastcst Rhymc, and My Namc !s Young, all ol which bccamc
rcgional hits and landcd in rotation at KAY in Los Angclcs. Hc thcn
rclcascd Know How, which bccamc his lirst rclcasc to havc major
distribution. !n 1989, Young MC rclcascd his dcbut album
and saw his singlc 8ust a Movc bccomc a smash hit. Thc
song, which lcaturcd vocals by Crystal 8lakc and a basslinc by Rcd Hot
Chili Pcppcrs bassist Flca, would rcmain on thc Top 40 list
lor an imprcssivc 40 wccks. That samc ycar Tonc Locs Funky Cold
Mcdina, which Young MC had cowrittcn, also bccamc a hugc hit,
rcaching numbcr thrcc on thc singlcs chart.

CHAPTR TVNTYFUR
190
would ultimatcly achicvc multiplatinum status, and Young MC would
rcccivc accoladcs lrom thc Amcrican Music Awards (8cst Rap Artist),
thc Music Awards (8cst Pop Artist), and thc Grammy Awards
(8cst Rap Pcrlormancc).
Young MC soon lclt clicious \inyl and signcd with Capitol Rccords,
whcrc hc rclcascd his goldsclling sophomorc album - in 1991.
Two ycars latcr Young MC rcturncd with his third ollcring, -
which lcaturcd production by Tribc Callcd Qucst produccr Ali
Shahccd Muhammad. !n 1997, Young MC rclcascd his lirst indcpcndcnt
album, , on vcrall Rccords. Although thc
album would lail to makc a dcnt on thc charts, it did spawn two charting
singlcs (Madamc 8uttally and n & Poppin). !n 2000, thc artist cs
tablishcd his own rccording company, Young Man Moving Rccords, and
rclcascd his lilth album, . Thc album would mark
a rcturn to thc charts lor Young MC, and thc titlc singlc would
also appcar on thc charts. That samc ycar Young MC cowrotc Anastacias
hit singlc Not That Kind, which appcarcd on thc hugcly succcsslul album
ol thc samc titlc.
!n 2002, Young MC appcarcd on (and won) -
- , which also lcaturcd Run, J Quik, Jcrmainc upri, a
8rat, 8Rcal, Xzibit, and Natc ogg. That samc ycar hc rclcascd his sixth
album, , on Stimulus Rccords. Thc album lcaturcd thc
hit singlc Hcatscckcr, which rcachcd numbcr thrcc on thc Hot
R&8/HipHop salcs chart and latcr numbcr two on thc Hot 100
Singlcs Chart.
Young MC has sincc rclcascd thc albums and
--, appcarcd on thc \H1 rcality show , and madc appcar
anccs in thc lilms and . !n addition, his music
continucs to appcar on tclcvision scrics likc and -, in lilms likc
- and , and in commcrcials lor cvcrything lrom
hamburgcrs to solt drinks.
-
! think ol a lorm ol cxprcssion. ! think ol a lamiliar placc, at lcast lor mc,
as a black kid in thc cightics who grcw up in Ncw York. !t was somcthing
that was out in thc strccts, but it was constructivc. Thcrc wcrc a lot ol kids
whod bccn out thcrc gctting into troublccspccially il you wcrcnt an
YUNG MC
191
athlctc looking to gct a scholarship or somcthing likc that. !t was a good
rclcasc lor mc, and a good countcrbalancc to my schooling bccausc cvcry
thing was locuscd on my bcing in school and going to collcgc. This was
somcthing ! could do and lccl likc it was minc.
!n tcrms ol it bcing a culturc and thc likc, ! was part ol it in its in
lancy, so ! didnt rcally scc it as this big culturc. !t was just somcthing that
! did with my lricnds that grcw into a culturc outsidc. Thcn ! rcalizcd
thc impact ol what ! had donc whcn it was just mc and my lricnds in a
bascmcnt.
- - -
8lock partics, bascmcnt partics, housc partics. Pcoplc switching on thc
microphonc. A bcat would comc on and thcn onc guy would rap and thcn
switch oll, doing a littlc bit ol battling but not rcally. !t was morc just
watching what thc othcr guys did. And thcn thcrc wcrc kids lrom othcr
ncighborhoods . . . Vcd hcar about a guy just a lcw blocks away that was
prctty nicc on thc microphonc. Vhcrc ! was in Hollis, it was rcally local
izcd. ! hcard about what was happcning in Manhattan and thc 8ronx, but
! was too young to gct into thc clubs. So it rcally didnt makc much scnsc
lor mc to gct on thc train and travcl into anothcr borough il ! was going to
gct to a placc whcrc ! couldnt gct insidc.

! think ! rcalizcd whcn ! would scc thc looks on thc laccs ol othcr guys in
thc ncighborhood whcncvcr ! got on thc mic. ! had studicd othcr rappcrs
and lclt that ! would bc ablc to do it. Thcn whcn ! was ablc to dcvclop my
own stylc and crcatc my own rhymcs, to lcarn what biting was and thcn
makc my stylc somcthing that was dillcrcnt lrom cvcryonc clscs, and rc
ally pcrsonalizc it. Thcn most pcoplc who hcard mc wcrc shockcd that !
could do it and was good at it bccausc ! was known as morc ol a ncrd or a
bookworm. Thcn ! would go to housc partics whcrc pcoplc who had ncvcr
hcard mc bclorc would bc imprcsscd by what thcy hcard, and thcn ! lound
that ! likcd that attcntion. So ! just kind ol wcnt with it.
- - - - -
- - - - -
Ycah. ! mcan, lor thc most part, ! dont listcn to a lot ol hiphop. Vhcn
somcthings hugc, !ll listcn to it just to kind ol lind out whats going on.
CHAPTR TVNTYFUR
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8ut !m not tracking down cvcry singlc rclcasc to try and gct idcas lrom it.
A lot ol timcs !ll listcn to stull in othcr gcnrcs, whcthcr it bc rock or dancc
or cvcn somc morc mclodic typcs ol music, and thcn lct myscll bc lcd ar
tistically lrom thosc. ! lind that il yourc only listcning to your compctition,
thcn its rcally dillicult to think outsidc ol thc box that your compctition
is in. Vith mc, lor instancc, with all ol thc rccordsVild Thing, 8ust
a Movc, Funky Cold Mcdina, and cvcn Principals llicc to a ccrtain
cxtcntmy contributions would not havc bccn thc samc lyrically had !
bccn conccrncd with what cvcrybody clsc was making.
-
! grcw up in Ncw York City, and ! graduatcd high school in 1985 and wcnt
to USC in Calilornia. !n thc summcr ol 1987, ! hookcd up with a guy at a
rccord storc callcd Rock and Soul in Ncw York, ! think it was 35th Strcct
and Scvcnth Avcnuc. Vc wcnt to thc studio and madc a couplc ol dcmos
and tricd to gct somc attcntion lrom a rccord labcl in Ncw York, but that
didnt work out. Hc kncw thc guys lrom clicious \inyl, so whcn ! camc
back out to school lor my junior ycar, ! got on thc phonc with thcm. !
rappcd lor thcm and thcn within a wcck ol my rapping ovcr thc phonc thcy
scnt mc a contract. ! didnt havc a lawycr, ! didnt havc anything. So ! wcnt
and signcd thc contract and startcd rccording with thcm.
-- - --
-- -
No, ! actually rccordcd a lcw singlcs bclorchand. My Namc !s Young, !
Lct m Know, and Fastcst Rhymc wcrc all ovcr KAY. Thcn at that
point ! cowrotc Vild Thing. ! wrotc lour vcrscs and ! think thcy kcpt
thrcc ol thcm. And thcn altcr that ! rclcascd anothcr song callcd Know
How, and thcn around thc samc timc ! cowrotc Funky Cold Mcdina
bccausc thcy wantcd a lollowup singlc lor Tonc. And that camc out at thc
cnd ol 1988, and thcn 8ust a Movc camc out towards thc ncxt summcr.
- -- -
- - -
spccially in hiphop, it was kind ol an insidc thing. ! wasnt going around
saying that ! wrotc thc song. Nobody rcally kncw who ! was nationally, so
Tonc was just doing it. Thcrc was no rcason lor my namc to cvcn comc up.
My cowriting ol Vild Thing and Funky Cold Mcdina only camc up
YUNG MC
193
and bccamc ncws oncc ! camc out with 8ust a Movc. ! was wcll known
in LA, and ! had a lot ol support thcrc, but in tcrms ol a nationwidc buzz,
cvcn as a songwritcr, that didnt rcally happcn until 8ust a Movc startcd
happcning.

- ---- -
Absolutcly. That was whcn ! was at USC, and ! was coming lrom Ncw
York City, and as a tccnagcr you dont drivc in Ncw Yorkat lcast back
thcn. !t was all trains and buscs. So thcn ! wcnt to thc campus and cv
crything was prctty much scllsullicicnt thcrc, so ! rcally had no nccd lor
a car and ! didnt rcally start driving until my junior and scnior ycars ol
collcgc.
-
! wrotc it in an hour and a hall, and that was prctty much thc lirst dralt. !
had lirst comc up with thc titlc Makc That Movc, and wc thcn dccidcd
to changc that to 8ust a Movc. ncc wc madc that changc ! just wcnt in
and spit it. !t wasnt somcthing whcrc thcrc wcrc a lot ol rctakcs or rcwritcs
or anything likc that. That song is prctty much a llow ol consciousncss. !
mcan, its prctty much just story upon story, and ! was just so cagcr to writc
somcthing that a prolcssor hadnt told mc to writc . . . |Laughs.| And also
thc track was a lot dillcrcnt at that point. 8y this timc Tonc had alrcady
sold two to thrcc million with Vild Thing, and Funky Cold Mcdina
was alrcady platinum, and ! was sitting hcrc with 8ust a Movc that was
slowcr and didnt havc a rock cdgc to it. So ! had no idca how pcoplc wcrc
going to rcspond to it. And thc song cadcncc was a lot dillcrcnt than it was
in thosc songs. Vhcn ! was writing lor Tonc, ! was writing lor Tonc. So
writing lor myscll, and with thc bcat bcing slowcr, ! lclt ! could bc a bit
morc activc with it, but ! didnt know il pcoplc would gct into it as much
as thcy had with Toncs stull. So thcrc was a bit ol ncrvousncss until thc
rccord rcally took hold and pcoplc rcspondcd to it.
As lar as thc rccording proccss, ! dont rcally rcmcmbcr much. ! know
that things wcrc donc scparatcly. ! was not thcrc lor thc rccording ol thc
background singcr or lor Flca playing bass. ! just kind ol camc in, thc stull
was thcrc, and ! wcnt in and did thc track. Thc lunny thing is that its
lour 16bar vcrscs with a 16bar brcak, and no onc cditcd thc rccord. So
thc rccord was likc 4:20 to 4:30 and cvcrybody playcd it at thc lull lcngth,
CHAPTR TVNTYFUR
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which to mc is still shocking. !vc ncvcr hcard thc rccord cditcd, bccausc
cvcrybody knows thc arrangcmcnt as it is.
- - - -

!nitially, ycah. ! mcan, look, you scnd your kid to go to collcgc and thcn
hc comcs back lrom collcgc and says, Ycah, ! got my dcgrcc, but . . .
Thcy basically gavc mc thc summcr altcr graduation to makc this work,
bccausc 8ust a Movc camc out linals wcck ol my scnior ycar. So ! had
that summcr to dctcrminc whcthcr that was going to bc my carccr or il !
was going to gct a rcgular job and go to grad school, and thcn ! just startcd
doing shows and thc rccord startcd taking oll. Thc vidco hit, and ! just kcpt
pushing, and that was it.
- -
!t was not likc it is now. ! tcll pcoplc this all thc timc and thcy dont
undcrstand it. This was prc!ntcrnct and prcccll phonc. ! lclt bad a lcw
ycars ago bccausc ! had to throw out a box lull ol lan lcttcrs, bccausc
yourc gctting all ol this stull and you dont havc timc to rcspond to it in
duc timc. !t was not instantancous likc it is now, so ! was shcltcrcd a lot
lrom what was going on. Not cvcrybody had cablc, not cvcrybody had
MT\. You could scc thc numbcrs and thc likc, but il yourc not
tcrribly savvy in tcrms ol what that mcans industrywisc, yourc somcwhat
in a bubblc, yourc going through it and you dont know whats happcn
ing cvcry placc at thc samc timc. Right now it would bc a lot casicr to
scc that, and it would bc a lot casicr lor an artist to blow up nationwidc,
whcrcas thcn it was vcry rcgional.
- - - --
-
!t hclps in that it gcts a rccord out to cvcrybody vcry quickly, so thcrc
arcnt a lot ol sccrcts anymorc. You no longcr scc a rcgional rccord kind ol
bubbling up in onc placc and thcn pcoplc slowly linding it. 8ust a Movc
was on thc charts lor 40 wccks, and it outlastcd my sccond and third
singlcs. And basically a lot ol thc rcason lor that is that a lot ol pcoplc
had to grow into that rccord. !t didnt hit at all placcs at onc timc. Thc
vidco push, and thcn rctail did okay, and thcn radio startcd kicking in,
and thosc things all kind ol lcd cach othcr. And this was prcSoundscan,
YUNG MC
195
as wcll, so thcrc wasnt that conccntratcd promotion ol trying to gct thc
most salcs altcr six wccks or on a ccrtain wcckcnd or somcthing likc that.
So thosc arc thc positivcs.
! think thc ncgativc is that thcrcs no longcr a pcrsonal story that
pcoplc havc about thc lirst timc thcy hcard a rccord. You know, thc lirst
timc ! hcard this rccord ! was in this placc, and thcn ! hcard it on thc
radio, and thcn ! saw thc vidco, and thcn ! hcard it was in othcr citics . .
. That proccss uscd to takc months, and thcn by thc timc thc album camc
out you wcrc likc, !m gonna go gct this album bccausc you lccl likc you
havc a pcrsonal rclationship with how thc artist and thc rccord took oll.
That rcally docsnt cxist anymorc. All ol that stull is bcing manipulatcd
to try and gct thc Soundscan numbcrs, and thc only rcason thc labcl will
work rcgions isnt bccausc thcrc is or isnt a dcmand, but bccausc its morc
convcnicnt lor thcm to work ccrtain rcgions likc that. Pcoplc dont havc
thc pcrsonal rclationship with thc artist and watching an artist grow. !t
no longcr lccls likc its part ol somconcs pcrsonal story thc way it was
back whcn my rccord camc out. Thc artist dcvclopmcnt aspcct isnt rcally
thcrc, and thats thc biggcst thing thats missing in tcrms ol artists bcing
ablc to havc carccrs with longcvity or bcing ablc to havc songs that rcally
stick whcrc lans know cvcry word ol thc song whcn thcy go to thc con
ccrt. That docsnt rcally happcn lor anyonc whos ovcr thc agc ol 20 now.
Tccnagcrs might do it bccausc its lun, but in tcrms ol a rccord bcing livc
or 10 ycars old and you knowing cvcry word, that rcally docsnt happcn
that much anymorc.
- -
-
Right, or somconc told mc about this or somconc scnt mc a link. !
havc nothing against that, but its just not that organic thing. ! was dig
ging around on YouTubc and ! lound this. !ts just not thc samc kind ol
thing, and thcn so much stull gcts put out likc that or lcakcdcspccially
with pcoplc looking toward thc Soundscan numbcrsthat cvcn il you
hcar somcthing, it may gct to thc point whcrc it docsnt comc out or its
only availablc digitally. And radio stations . . . Vhcn was thc last timc you
wcrc ablc to call a radio station and rcqucst a song that thcy dont play and
actually havc thcm cnd up playing it: That docsnt happcn. Now thc only
rcqucsts that radio stations takc arc thc stull that thcyrc alrcady playing.
CHAPTR TVNTYFUR
196
- --
Right. ! think thc actual numbcr is 13, as opposcd to Top 40. So il you
listcn to most stations, yourc going to hcar thc samc songs twicc.
- -
- - - --
-
! think what happcncd is that thc major labcls got involvcd, and thcy
startcd locusing on whatcvcr thc ncwcst, hottcst thing was, and thcn
whcn it wcnt gangsta, thcy just dccidcd that all ol it should go that way.
And thcn trying to turn it back around and havc somc lun stull . . . Thcrc
arc a lcw artists who havc somc lun rccords, but it isnt thc way it was
whcn ! lirst camc out, whcrc you had guys likc mc, and Tonc Loc, and
Hammcr, and \anilla !cc, at thc samc timc as having Poor Rightcous
Tcachcrs and Public ncmy and igital Undcrground and c La Soul
and NVA and Gcto 8oys all going platinum at thc samc timc and it
wasnt an issuc. And thcrc was no onc sitting around saying that wc all
had to sound likc this or likc that. Now ! will say that ! did hcar lrom
artists who, altcr 8ust a Movc camc out, had an A&R tcll thcm that
thcy had to makc an uptcmpo rccord with a girl singing on it bccausc
that was thc sound right now. ! didnt makc rccords to cstablish a sound,
! madc rccords to cstablish . Thcn A&R guys startcd saying, !l you
dont sound likc thc hottcst thing on thc radio right now, thcn thats it.
So whcn NVA, and Snoop, and rc camc out, thcn cvcryonc had to
sound likc thcm. Thcn whcn Pully or whocvcr clsc you had camc out,
thcn cvcrybody had to sound just likc thcm bccausc that was thc sound ol
thc momcnt. Also, you no longcr havc albums madc with a ccntral pro
duccr. Now cvcrybodys got to gct a Kanyc track, or a rc track, or a Just
8lazc or 9th Vondcr track. !t wasnt likc that. Today pcoplc say, !l rc
was ablc to makc a hot track lor mincm or whocvcr, thcn wcll just gct a
rc track and wc should do just linc. And thats what madc a lot ol thc
stull today sound thc samc. And you cant blamc thc produccr, bccausc
thcyrc going and gctting thc work whcrcvcr thcy can. 8ut thc labcls say,
mincm just sold X amount ol rccords, so wcvc got to gct that sound or
somc piccc ol that to tic it in. 8ut thc lans arc looking lor divcrsc sounds,
so as soon as pcoplc startcd worrying about that and running away lrom
that divcrsity, thcn hiphop startcd going downhill.
YUNG MC
197
And thcn with Soundscan you could no longcr lct a rccord grow
organically. Vhat Soundscan did was it causcd pcoplc to bcgin sclling
rccords thc way lilms arc sold. Thc way a lilm comcs out is you scc thc
commcrcials lor a whilc, thcn maybc a prcvicw cithcr on a \ or a
movic you go to, and thcn you go scc thc lilm on thc lirst wcck. Pcoplc
dont consumc music likc that, cspccially not albums. You hcar a singlc,
you likc it, you gct into it. You may not buy anything, but you know its
thcrc. Thcn you hcar a sccond singlc, you may likc it, gct into it or hcar
it on thc radio or whatcvcr, and thcn at somc point bctwccn that singlc
and a third singlc you bcgin hcaring both ol thosc lirst singlcs playing
in dillcrcnt placcs. Thcn you say, kay, thats cnough to prompt mc
to go out and buy an album. No mattcr what a rccord company docs,
you cant coordinatc a lans rcsponsc in that way to go out and buy an
album. This is bccausc you listcn to an album ovcr and ovcr and ovcr
again, whcrcas you watch a movic lor two hours and yourc donc with
it. And thats what Soundscan didit lorccd thc promotion ol music to
bc handlcd likc lilm.
-
-- -
- - -- -
- -
Just listcn to thc intcrvicws. Vhcncvcr somconc would intcrvicw mc about
my rccord, thcy would intcrvicw mc about thc conccpts on thc rccord, what
! was lccling, what ! was thinking, what ! was trying to do. Vhcn thcy
intcrvicw hiphop artist today, thcy ask who did thc tracks and who
arc thc gucst stars. Thosc arc thc lirst two things thcy ask, not what wcrc
you lccling, what arc you trying to say with thc rccord. That has nothing to
do with it. Vho did you gct on hcrc with you: Thats what thcy ask, and
thats why albums arcnt cohcsivc.
- - - -
----
Hiphop is not dcad, but thc hiphop ! kncw is no longcr thc prom quccn.
And dillcrcnt pcoplc havc dillcrcnt vicws ol what thcy think hiphop is.
A lot ol us oldcr guys can point to 1986 through 1993 as thc goldcn cra.
Maybc you can squcczc that down a littlc bit, but in thcrc, il yourc starting
with Run and going all thc way through to rc and Snoop, is what would
CHAPTR TVNTYFUR
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csscntially bc considcrcd thc goldcn cra. 8ut il yourc asking youngcr pco
plc, thcyll say its altcr that. h, no, its 8iggic and Tupac. !ts Kanyc or
mincm. A lot ol it in tcrms ol what thc grcatcst cra ol hiphop is dcpcnds
on whcn pcoplc consumcd it in thcir lormativc ycars. To mc, it sccms likc
thcrcs not as much loundation ol hiphop to thc music that comcs out
today. A lot ol pcoplc who rcally gct into hiphop cnd up going back livc,
10, 15 ycars, maybc morc. And a lot ol thc artists who can do shows arc art
ists my agc, as opposcd to guys who camc out with rccords around 2000 or
2001 with a lot ol gangsta stull. Thats onc thing that labcls didnt scc: Thc
14 or 15ycarold kids who wantcd to hcar that gangsta stull arc now 30
and thcy havc kids at homc and thcyrc not going to gct a babysittcr to go
out and listcn to somc gangsta stull, and thcrc arc a lot ol vcnucs that wont
book thosc groups. So mc, 20 ycars altcr my hit, ! can gct shows whcrc
guys who camc out a dccadc altcr mc and sold morc rccords than mc cant.

1. (1989)
2. - (1991)
3. - (1993)
4. (1997)
5. (2000)
6. (2002)
7. (2007)
8. - - - (2007)
9. -- (2009)
199

3rd 8ass 47
29
9th Vondcr 110, 11
- 123
50 Ccnt xiv, 15, 183, 187
Abovc thc Law 93, 94, 95, 97, 98
- 11
Achcbc, Chinua 57
93
Adkins, Tracc xiv
Alrika 8ambaataa 61, 72
Ah, and Vc o !t Likc This 176,
178
Ahcarn, Charlic 84
Aint No HallStcppin 19, 21, 22, 24
Akinyclc 134
Akrobatik 1118
Alchcmist 131
All lor nc 144
All ol Mc 19, 2526
All Vc Got !z Us 176
- 176
Almighty RS 87
Alpcrt, Hcrb 33
84
Anthrax 45
Apachc 89
- -
45
Appctitc lor cstruction 93
- 39
----- 71
66
- 45
Ayrcs, Roy 94
Azor, Hurby 171, 173
852s 59
8Rcal 12
176, 180, 182
131
8adu, rykah 1, 8
8akcr, Anita 159
11, 14
8all ol Conlusion 93
8anncr, avid 2
8arKays 33
8ass, Rob 166
8attlccat 93
!NX
200
- 89
8c Happy 117
8cach 8oys 107, 112
8castic 8oys 109
123
8catlcs 46, 49, 96
- 84
- 102
- - 139
- - 108
107
8ig 8cat 60
8ig addy Kanc 14, 1927, 46, 58, 62,
63, 66, 68, 116, 11718, 139, 140,
150, 178, 187
8ig S 176
8ig L 139, 141, 147
8ig Scan 3
84
8iohazard 176, 18182
8iz Markic 19, 21, 118, 150, 178
8izarrc 180
1, 56, 91
- 84
84, 8992
11
-- 102
8lack ycd Pcas 102
- 1, 6
93, 98
8lack Milk 126
8lack Moon xiv, 2, 35
8lack Shccp 2834
8lack Shccp rcs 2834
8lack Thought 57
- 171
-
- 177
177
8lakc, Crystal 189
8ligc, Mary J. 1, 5, 6, 8, 58, 63, 64, 83,
91, 117
8lo 11
- 58
8low, Kurtis viii, 30, 102, 109
8lu 55
8luc Sucdc Shocs xiv
8lunts and Tanqucray 98
153
8omb Squad 20, 44
8ono 140
8oogic own Productions 172
- 1
8ooty cw 145
- - 84
8oss 186
8owc, Riddick 76
8oyz !! Mcn 117
- 139
172
71
8rand Nubian 2, 14451
8rcak thc Vrath in Hall 23
8rcakdown 35, 40
Thc 8rcaks viii
8rcndas Got a 8aby 86
8ring thc Noisc 45
8rooklyn 8ouncc 58, 63
8rown, Jamcs 45, 46, 64, 75
8ryant, Kobc 61
8uckshot 164, 167
8ull Lovc 10715
8ugs 8unny 39
8ust a Movc 189, 193
8usta Rhymcs 36
8y thc Timc ! Gct to Arizona 49
C.J. & Company 59
CRayz Valz 71
Camco 105
!NX
201
Can You Hcar Mc: 184
Canibius 116, 120
Cant Truss !t 45
Cant You Scc 117
Carcll, Stcvc 12
Casual 66
Causc ! Can o !t Right 19
Ccd G 101
Chaka Khan 159
Chcckcr, Chubby 108, 112
Chic 189
Chick on thc Sidc 171
Chip Fu 3543
Thc Choicc !s Yours 28, 3233
Chopmastcr J 152, 154
98
93, 182
Chuck xiv, 2, 12, 16, 4450, 131,
141, 159
Circlli, Michacl 5157
CL Smooth 39
- 66
Clinton, 8ill 108
Clinton, Gcorgc 64, 94, 95, 96, 153
- 177
Cocky 122
Cohcn, Lyor 81, 181
Cokcr, Chco 87
Cold 187um 93, 95, 97
Coldcut 75
Collins, 8ootsy 96
- 75
Coltranc, John 5
Comc n 147
Commodorcs 5
Common (Scnsc) 66, 84, 123, 179
Conlrontation Camp 45
Cookc, Sam 84
Cool C 22
- 164
Cowboy 122
Craig G. 19, 2223, 66
Critical 8catdown 101
Crocodilc Rock vii
164, 167
Crooklyn odgcrs 164
- 107
Curc 53
153
12 125, 180
Angclo 5
..A. (cath ol Autotunc) 115
a 8catmincrz 3, 11, 101
a Youngstas 176
addy 5865, 88, 109
- 20
aly, Jim 86
amc ash 184
ana anc 166
arryl and Joc 62
asFX 39, 40, 119, 182
atarock 60
12
awscy, arryl 90
177
8C 58
c La Soul 5, 32, 33, 53, 55, 76, 118
-- 177
cad Prcz 84
84
cl Squad 116, 120
clari 92
clitc 58, 6162
- 1
cstinys Child 1, 6, 8
iamond 11, 40, 69
131
igital Undcrground 13, 26, 15262
ilatcd Pcoplcs 66, 69
!NX
202
-- 107, 109, 112
J Aksun 164
J Alamo 144
J 8abu 69
J Cluc 186
J Crazy Tooncs 94
J Fakts nc 11
J Fuzc 152, 154
J Grccn Lantcrn 143
J Jazzy Jcll 1, 40
J JS1 6674
J Kay Slay 186
J Prcmicr 1, 3, 48, 69, 7071, 72, 74
J Pudgcc P 139
J Q8crt 72, 153
J Quik 131
J Rcvolution 11, 69
J Sinccrc 144
J Skribblc 66
J \lad 139, 143
145
o You Vant Mc 171
ogg Pound 98
onovan 98
ont 8itc a Funk 93, 98
76
ooVop 140
oowutchalikc 152, 154
oug . Frcsh 79
r. rc 70, 93, 96, 97, 98, 15960,
179, 182
r. !cc viii, 36
rakc 2, 5, 38
ropkickcd 139
uck Alcrt 23
ylan, 8ob 45
aglcs 189
124
arth, Vind & Firc vii
asy Mo 8cc 20
azy 76, 87, 93, 9596, 98
d .G. 11
ducatcd Rappcr 36
go Trippin 101
lliott, Missy 177
MC 66
116
mincm 42, 47, 96, 125, 126, 131,
136, 137, 177, 18284, 185
xiv
- xiv
PM 116, 118, 119, 175
pps, mar 177
ric 8. & Avion 76
ric 8. & Rakim 2324, 26, 36, 46,
7582, 118, 123
ric 8. !s Prcsidcnt 36, 75
- 86
-- 84
U 171
vcrlast 66
vcry Rccord Labcl Sucks ick 132,
135
- 144
vidcncc 66
xcrcisc 179
xprcssion 171
- 35
Fat 8oys viii, 10715, 140, 172, 175
Fat 8oys 107
- 107
Fatback 8and 117, 172
Fathcr MC 132
44
153
Fcarlcss Four 60
Fccls Likc Anothcr nc 19
Fight thc Powcr 47, 49, 145
!NX
203
First Choicc 59
Flavor Flav 44, 46
Flavor ol thc Month 28
Flca 63, 189
Flcctwood Mac 127
Float n 58
Follow Mc 127
7576
Follow thc Lcadcr 76
Forcvcr 122
- 101
Frcaks ol thc !ndustry 158
Frcddic Foxxx 24, 77
Frcsh Princc 178
- 140
Fricnds 76
- 29
Frukwan 58
FuSchnickcns 3543
Fuck thc Policc 99
93, 97
101
Funkmastcr Flcx 186
Funky 101
Funky Cold Mcdina 189
153
GUnit 15
Gamc vcr 1
Gamcr 71
Gang Starr 11, 69, 73
164
Gap 8and 105
Gayc, Marvin 94, 99
Gct !t Up 177
Gct Liltcd 116
Gct on thc Floor 76
Gibbs, \an 65
Gilbcrt, Jack 55
94
Girl 1
131
- 1, 6
- - 1, 6
Gold Moncy 159
- 162
Goodman, Larry 95
Grand Puba 144
Grand Vizzard Thcodorc 59
Grandmastcr Caz 21
Grandmastcr ST 67
Grandmastcr Flash and thc Furious
Fivc viii, 12, 59, 60, 94, 102
Gratclul cad 53
Gravcdiggaz 58
- -
- - 117
- --- 45
153
- - - 124
Grohl, avc 103
Groovc with !t 1920
66, 6768
66, 72
Guilty Simpson 126
Guru 11, 39
Halcy, Michacl 81
Hammcr 26, 64, 87
hampton, drcam 8392
Hancock, Hcrbic 7
Hang m High 145
Hanh, Thich Nhat 51
- 84
Hassclholl, avid 61
Hathaway, onnic 94
Havoc 135
Haycs, Tcrrancc 55
45
- 116
!NX
204
Hcatwavc 22
Hcdrcn, Tippi 137
Hcncnlottcr, Frank 131
Higgins, Monk 22
Highcr Ground 63
Hinds, Sclwyn 87
HipHop oll 154
--- 51,
5556
Hold n 144
Holly, 8uddy xiv
Holmcs, Larry 138
hooks, bcll 83
Hostilc 116, 11920
- 172
- 76
How to Rob 187
How U Gct a Rccord cal: 20
Howic Tcc 164, 165
Thc Humpty ancc 152, 157, 158
HVA 87
84

45
! Gct Around 153, 16061
! Gct thc Job onc 19, 20
! Got 5 on !t 153
! Got !t Madc 164
! Shot Ya 117
! Uscd to Lovc H..R. 123
!cc Cubc 45, 46, 94, 96, 113, 141, 149
!cc T 65, 102
10
!mmortal Tcchniquc 45
!mpcrial Grand Ministcrs ol Funk 45
58
- 144
!ndia.Aric 99
- - 84
!nsanc Clown Possc 126
!ntcrnct MCs 11
!ovinc, Jimmy 183
- 19
!ts Hard 8cing thc Kanc 19
!ts Magic 60
- - -
44
- 90
!s Shc thc Rcason: 1
J. Colc 5
J illa 11
Ja Rulc 187
Jackson, Mahalia 84
Jackson, Michacl 10, 110
Jaggcr, Mick 150
JamaLot Crcw 36
Jam Mastcr Jay 67, 175, 176, 17980,
181, 182
Jamcs, Rick 77
Jason, Kylc 45
JayZ 1, 56, 8, 20, 2627, 61, 64, 82,
83, 84, 8992, 108, 115, 136, 141,
144, 164, 168, 184, 187
Jaz 26
Jazz Frcsh 24
Jcru a amaja 66, 73
Jodcci 5
Jocl, 8illy vii
John, lton vii
Joncs, Quincy 25, 84
Joncs, Roy, Jr. 82
Jordan, Michacl 61
176
Judgmcnt Night 181
76, 89, 164, 167
Juicc Crcw 19
Junglc 8rothcrs 32
Junior Malia 59
!NX
205
- - 86
Just My !magination 93
KCut 40
KSolo 118
Kangol Kid viii
172
Kccp Your istancc 60
Kcidis, Anthony 103
139
Kclly, Rob 13943
KcnnyK 152, 154
Kid Rock 122, 12324, 125, 126, 127,
128, 129
Killah Pricst 134
King Charlcs 77
King, Martin Luthcr 9
Kiss You 8ack 153, 158
Knight, Gladys 46
Knight, Sugc 26, 76, 98, 128, 184
Know thc Lcdgc 76
Kokanc 93100
Kool G. Rap 19, 22, 66, 71, 131, 132,
150
Kool Hcrc 30, 60
Kool Kcith 101106
Kool Moc cc 46
Kool Rock Ski 10715
KRSnc 2, 36, 39, 46, 66, 68, 69, 71,
139, 148
- 107, 123
Kubrick, Stanlcy 137
L... 119
La Coka Nostra 66, 139
La i a i 21, 79
La Schmoovc 35
La8cllc, Patti 19, 27
Lady 8 24
Lady Gaga 73, 99
Largc Prolcssor 20, 69
Last ayz 176
- 93
Last Pocts 57
Laylaw 95
Lcd Zcppclin xiv
Lcc, Spikc 164, 167, 177
164
--- 131
177
76
Lcts Talk about Scx 171
Lidcll, Chuck 128
Lil Kim 59
Lil Vaync 2, 69, 150
- 1, 3
Littlc 8rothcr 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Livc Niguz 177
LL Cool J 12, 14, 63, 107, 116, 117,
140, 159
- - 52, 54
Long !sland !ccd Tca 154
Long, Jcrry 8. 93
14, 19, 20
Long Livc thc Kanc 117
- 20
Lord Fincssc 70
Lord Jamar 144
- - 153
A Lovc Lcttcr to Kclis 51
Lovc, Faizon 185
Lovc Mi Scnsi 35
Lovcly ay 127
Thc Lovcr in You 20
Ludacris 2, 8, 108, 150
Lupc Fiasco 5455, 57
M.!.A. 102
108, 11314
Madonna 19
!NX
206
Thc Magniliccnt 164
Mailcr, Norman 85
145
Mapplcthorpc, Robcrt 86
Marlcy, 8ob 5, 189
Marlcy Marl 3, 19, 22, 7879
Masta Acc 19, 23, 66, 164, 167
Matty C. 88
Maylicld, Curtis 5
Mays, avc 84, 87
Maywcathcr, Floyd 76
MC Lytc 39
MC Rcn 93
MC Shan 78
McCall, livcr 76
McCartncy, Paul 150
McKibbcns, Rachcl 55
MCs Ultra 101
Mcllc Mcl 30, 46, 60
Mcmorial ay 11
Mcmphis 8lcck 139
Mcntally Mad 101
Thc Mcssagc viii, 12
Mcthod Man 39
MF oom 6
- 5
Minaj, Nicki xiv
- 1
Mista Lawngc 28
Mix Mastcr Mikc 71
Mobb ccp 131, 135
Moc Fu 35, 37
Moc Lovc 101
Moncy 8 152, 160
Monroc, Marilyn 85
Mos cl 39, 55, 84, 131
- - -
116
Mr. Lil 11
Mr. Magic 61
MT\ 66
Muhammad, Ali Shahccd 36, 38, 40,
190
Murphy, ddic 77
Murray, Kcith xiv, 27, 11621
Murs 2, 8
My Mic Sounds Nicc 171
Mystic 153
Nas xv, 1, 5, 6, 36, 41, 43, 57, 73, 90,
121, 141
-- 6
Natc ogg 98
Nativc Tongucs 32, 149
Naughty by Naturc 40, 74, 89
12
- 12
Nclly 39, 69
Ncptuncs 104
- 35
Nculvillc, Rcncc 36, 42
Ncw dition 109
177
93, 96, 98
- 130
Nirvana 182
No Nosc Job 153
Nonc ol Your 8usincss 172
2829
Notorious 8.!.G. 9, 48, 59, 83, 84,
8889, 90, 91, 130, 131, 134, 141,
145, 147, 164
Null Rcspcct 20
NVA 13, 14, 70, 76, 93, 96, 99, 112,
113, 149
- - 36
bama, 8arack 108109, 153
C 66
- 101
!NX
207
dinga, Sckou 89
Jays 5
l irty 8astard 39, 54
94
n a Mission 164
58
29
144
26
Ncal, Shaquillc 35, 3839, 164, 168
nyx 17688
Rcilly, 8ill xiv
rganizcd Noisc 3
sbornc, Jcllrcy 59, 64
177
ycwolc, Abiodun 57
75, 78, 79, 81, 123
Paradimc 12229
- 122
84
Parliamcnt 94, 96, 157, 189
108, 11415
Pattcrson, Floyd 86
P.. 2000 48
Pcrccptionists 11
Pcrdomo, Villic 55
Pctc Rock 1, 3, 36, 42, 70
Pharoahc Monch 71
Philc awg 35, 38
Philcr, Mckhi 177, 185
Phish 53
Phontc 1
Pitbull 127
Planct Rock 85
(magazinc) 19
P.M. awn 148
Poc Fu 35, 37
Policc 7
Poor Rightcous Tcachcrs 149
Poppa Largc 101
Powcll, Kcvin 86
Prcslcy, lvis xiv, 47
Pricc, Scan 141
Princc 81
Princc Markic cc 10715
Princc Paul 58, 118
-- 19
Prodigy 101
Prolcssor Grill 45
Prool 126
Public ncmy xiv, 16, 4450, 73, 99,
112, 118, 131, 145, 149
Pull addy 24, 48, 59, 64, 88, 91,
187
Punks Jump Up to Gct 8cat own
144, 148
Push !t 171
QTip xiv, 84
Quccn Latilah 59, 89
R.A. thc Ruggcd Man 13038
Rahzcl 66, 68, 71, 73, 74
- 52
Rakc viii
24
- 83, 91
xiv
116, 120
Rapaport, Michacl 177, 185
Rappcr 8ig Pooh 1
Rappcrs clight vii
Raw 19, 22, 24
Raw Fusion 159
Ray J. 185
Ray Luv 153
11
R8X 183
Rcact 177, 183
!NX
208
Rcady li Var 36, 42
122
Rcal Lovc 64, 88
Rcal Roxannc 85
- 89
Rcd Alcrt 32
Rcd Hot Chili Pcppcrs 59, 6364,
103, 189
29
Rcdman 38, 116, 120, 139, 141
Rcmcmbcr Mc 177, 182, 185
Rcmind My Soul 15
Thc Rcturn ol thc Crazy nc 153
- 164, 166
45
Rcznor, Trcnt 103
Rhymclcst 141
Rilcy, Tcddy 19
Ring thc Alarm 35
Rock Stcady Crcw 66
44, 45, 87, 92, 131
Rolling Stoncs 49, 127, 150
Ronson, Mark 141
Roots 57, 66, 84
Ross, antc 144
Ross, Rick 137, 164, 18687
Roth, Ashcr 135
Roth, Philip 86
Roycc thc 59 42
Rubin, Rick 44, 46
Rull nough 11
RunMC viii, 12, 46, 49, 52, 62, 81,
102, 107, 109, 112, 166, 175, 176,
178, 179, 187
-- - -- 51,
54
RZA 66
Saalir 153
Sadat X 66, 71, 73, 131, 135, 14451
Sally 58
171
SaltNPcpa 110, 140, 17175, 187
Samc Song 153, 160
Sartrc, JcanPaul iv
Say Ycs Say Vord 11
Schcctcr, Jon 85, 87
SchmoovySchmoov 152
ScottHcron, Gil 99
Scllcstruction 17
Scrmon, rick 116, 11819, 120, 131,
135
19
- 152
102
36
Shakc Your Thang 171
Shakur, Mutulu 89, 90
Shakur, Tupac 26, 83, 85, 86, 8990,
147, 153, 155, 15961, 164, 167, 184
Shantc, Roxannc 85, 178
177
Shock G 15263
Shoop 171, 172
Thc Show 79
Shut m own 45, 48
177
Simmons, 8obby 58
Simmons, Russcll 81
Sitomcr, Allan Lawrcncc 51
Skinny 8oys 87, 107
Skyzoo 7
Slainc 139
Slam 176, 181
Slick Rick 14, 21, 178
Slipknot 182
Slow 8urnin 22.5 cgrccs Farcnhcit
93
Slow own 144
Sly and thc Family Stonc 46
!NX
209
Smack My 8itch Up 101
Smith, anicl 86
Smith, Parrish 119
Smith, Patti 86
Smiths 53
Snoop ogg 83, 93, 94, 96, 98, 99,
164, 183
So Many Tcars 153, 16061
Somc LA Niggaz 94
- 153
Sonscc 176
viii
Soulja 8oy xiv, 65, 82
Soulsonic Forcc 85
131
19, 28, 44, 47, 58, 76, 83,
85, 86, 87, 89, 131, 176
Sparky 178
Spcars, 8ritncy 116
Spccial d 16470
123
84, 87
Spindcrclla 17175
Springstccn, 8rucc 64, 107, 110
Squirc, 8illy 60
- -- 139
Stairway to Hcavcn xv
- - 53
Starr, Frcdro 176, 177
Starr, Ringo 107
172
Stccly an 127
Stctlcr, Charlic 109, 112
Stctsasonic 58
Stick and Movc 179
Sticks Mix 154
Sticky Fingaz 17688
Still Got !t Madc 164
Sting 7
189
36
Stop thc \iolcncc 17
Strcct Justicc viii
Strobclight Honcy 28
Sugar Hill Gang vii
Sun City 107, 109
139
29
Swilt, Taylor 137
Thc Symphony 19, 22
Talcsc, Gay 86
Talib Kwcli 12, 54, 55, 56, 84
Talkin All That Jazz 58, 65
- 19, 20
Tcar own That Vall 49
TcchN9nc xiv
Tcddy 8car xv
Tcmptations 93, 94
Tcn Crack Commandmcnts 48
Tcrminator X 44
Tha Luniz 153
93
- 57
- - - 152
Thompson, Huntcr 87
Thrcat 1, 5, 8
Tim og 102
Timbaland 104
57
To Givc You Lovc 101
Tonc Loc 189
Tonc, Toni, Tony 156
Toncy, Alvin 77, 119
Too Latc Playcr 26
Too Short 156
Total 117
Townshcnd, Pctc 107
TR Lovc 101
Trackmastcrs 131
!NX
210
Tramp 171
Travcling at thc Spccd ol Thought
101
Travolta, John 59
Trcachcrous Thrcc 60
Trcy Songz 5
Tribc Callcd Qucst xiv, 2, 3, 5, 13, 32,
33, 35, 38, 76, 190
TrickTrick 126
Troutman, Rogcr 135
TRoy 117
Truc FuSchnick 35
Trugoy 55
Truth, Sojourncr 56
Thc Twist 108
Tyson, Mikc 77
U Mcan !m Not 31
U2 81, 107
Ultramagnctic MCs 66, 101102, 104
102
Unclc Krackcr 124, 12627, 128
- - 93
Undcrgodz 116, 120
Uptown Anthcm 89
UTF 36, 178
\an Zandt, Stcvcn 110
\anilla !cc 125
Thc \apors 21
-- 171
\cry Spccial 20
\H1 19, 3233, 84, 152, 153
84, 91, 131, 136, 177
- 84
\ibin 117
- 122
44, 84, 89
Vakc Up 144
Valc 2, 55
Valk in Ncw York 177
Valk This Vay 112
14
36
Varrcn G. 98
- 94
Vashington, cnzcl 62
Vatlcy, Jody 76
VC 94
Vc Vant azy 159
Vcrc All in thc Samc Gang 159
Vcst, Kanyc 3, 51, 57, 137
184
Vhat You Gonna o lor Mc: 26
Vhats on Your Mind: 76
Vhats Up oc: (Can Vc Rock) 35,
3839
Vhatta Man 171
Vhcrc Arc Thcy Now: 36, 41
Vhcrcvcr U.R. 26
Vhitc, 8arry 19, 2526, 105
Vho xiv, 150
153
Vhodini 102, 107
- 145, 14647
Vild Thing 189
will.i.am 102
Villiams, \ancssa 28
Vipcout 107, 112
12
Visc 58
- 28
Voodbinc, 8okccm 177
Vord !s 8ond 144
Vork to o 28
Thc Vorst 177
Vright, Richard 85
Vussup with thc Luv 153
VuTang Clan xiv, 35, 39, 131, 145,
177
!NX
211
XClan 13, 99, 145
90, 139
Xzibit 93, 128
- 44
- 47
YoYo 39

58, 62
Young 8lack Tccnagcrs 87
Young Guru 5
Young MC 18998
- 164
Your Lilcs a Cartoon 152
YouTubc 13
Yvcttcs Story 21
Zhanc 36
213

- is a lrcclancc journalist whosc cssays, critical rcvicws,

and cclcbrity intcrvicws havc appcarcd in numcrous publications. Hc has
workcd on a handlul ol motion picturcs in a varicty ol capacitics, includ
ing produccr, scrccnwritcr, actor, cincmatographcr, and composcr. Rausch
is also thc author ol numcrous books on thc subjcct ol popular culturc,
including - -, - --
- , -
(with avid Valkcr and Chris Vatson), - -
- (with Gary Gravcr), and - --
. is his tcnth book.