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Islam & Krishna consciousness

All faiths agree that He is the One True God, being free from all material
imperfections, limitations and or short-comings. He is the Supreme Being full in
all spiritual attributes, and is totally complete in every way. He is the One
Supreme Being without any equal (Quran 24:55. Sri Ishopanishad mantra 1.)

Understanding Islam and Krishna consciousness


How A Muslim Came To Krishna
MINGLING OF TWO OCEANS- HINDUISM AND ISLAM

Islam and Vegetarianism


Understanding Islam and Krishna consciousness
All faiths agree that He is the One True God, being free from all material
imperfections, limitations and or short-comings. He is the Supreme Being full in all
spiritual attributes, and is totally complete in every way. He is the One Supreme Being
without any equal (Quran 24:55. Sri Ishopanishad mantra 1.)

When we keep to these statements most everyone will agree. However, when we
begin to look at the miraculous things that He has done in a myriad of places, with
different devotees, at different times, suddenly there are some objections. Those
persons begin to put limitations upon Him saying He can't do this, cannot appear
there, or cannot be like this or that. Factually, this is our putting material confines on
what we think God should be or is like. He can do whatever He wants to do, or be.

One thing that dearly needs to be made clear is that He, the Lord, His Divine Name(s),
teachings, places of His pastimes etc., are all of His nature and entourage, they are as
worshippable as He being in relation to Him, they are not different from Him and are
His.

Ali, upon whom be peace, the Commander of the Faithful, says in the first sermon of
the Nahj al-balaghah, "The beginning of religion is the knowledge of the pure divine
essence, and the perfection of such knowledge lies in faith in that sacred being.
Perfect belief, in turn, lies in sincere devotion at His threshold, and perfect devotion is
none other than the dissociation of that Unique Principle from all the attributes of
contingent beings.

"Beware, for He cannot be described with any mundane attribute, for them difference
would appear between the name and the attribute. Whoever attempts to describe Him
with an attribute is, in effect, creating a like and a partner for Him, or rather he is
seeing God to be two. Whoever sees God to be two is attempting to divide His being.
Such a person lacks all knowledge and insight into the nature of God's unique being
and is blind and ignorant.

"The one who is thus deprived of vision will attempt to point to God (i.e., restrict Him
to a given time and place), and whoever does this posits imprisoning limits for the
Creator of all being and makes Him finite. Whoever limits and restricts Him in this
way regards Him as a measurable quantity. Whoever asks: "Where is God?"
unintentionally makes of Him a body enclosed within another body, and whoever
asks, "In what is God engaged?" unintentionally states that certain places are empty of
His being."

As one friend asked me, "Where is God?" "Where is He not?" was my reply.
The point is we have to understand that His Name and spiritual attributes are different
from those of this temporal world, of dualities, frailties etc. So we can point out that
there are attributes, but they are not mundane limited attributes rather they are
spiritual attributes which are full of His potency.

This is important for all to understand so that each can understand that each of His
attribute(s) is in itself infinite and co-extensive with the infinitude of the essence. God
is free of and exempt from finite attributes that might be distinct from each other and
separate from the essence.

There is a vast difference in seeing God or God's hand in the world and seeing many
Gods. The analogy can be used of that of a King. The King and the power of the King
are the same, the power emanates from him. So similarly When God appears or when
His power is shown, or when He empowers a great prophet or saint His presence can
be tangibly appreciated.

The difference is when someone tries to claim something which is false. Such as a
minister in the King's government, if he tries to claim something of the King's as his
own or for himself then he's punishable. When the minister admits that he's the
humble servant of the King and is genuinely doing the King's work without deviation
then who will not offer respects. We do not offer respects to a cheater, and we do not
offer our respects to the minister for himself. But as the representative of the King we
offer respects.

This same understanding should be there in the Vedic schools of theology also. The
various devas - demigods, empowered beings are exactly that. They have been
entrusted, empowered to perform ministerial duties in the Kingdom of the Supreme
God, and for that we offer them all respect. Without that service, they are neither
empowered nor worthy of such respect.

No Independent Existence:
Just as if one looks at a coconut and asks about each of the elements thereof; what is
this - pointing to the outer husk, its coconut husk. Breaking that open and revealing
the coconut kernel within, we so call it 'coconut kernel'. When that is broken too, it
reveals coconut meat and coconut milk. All of them are in relation to coconut, and
without coconut they have no independent existence. So in the same way the beings of
this world have no independent existence without the Supreme Being, God. He is the
One Independent Being (Swatantra), everyone and everything else in creation, all the
living entities, even the saints, prophets, sages, rishis, even the demons, as well as all
material elements are all reliant on Him for their/our existence, therefore all that is
Aswatantra - or dependent upon Him.
In one sense everything is part of Him, but at the same time everything by His
expanding potency appears outside of Him too. It is one with Him yet inconceivably
different too. When He appears He does so as He wants, and uses the material
elements and saintly associates of His entourage (parishad) to uphold religious
principles and destroy the evils of the world that afflict His interests.

Looking at the chart He has a whole realm to choose from to appear through, and
does. He is completely Independent in how the creation is created and maintained
under His direction. He as the Supreme Being appoints His representatives to serve
universal affairs on His behalf, but He always remains totally independent, and they
dependent upon Him in every regard. There's no question of there being an equal or
partner or something other than the Original Supreme Absolute Being - God. This is
echoed throughout the Vedic scriptures.

om pürnam adah pürnam idam


pürnät pürnam udacyate
pürnasya pürnam ädäya
pürnam evävashishyate

[Ishopanishad, Invocation]

“The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely


perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly
equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the complete whole is also
complete in itself. Because He is the complete whole, even though so many complete
units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.”

The Supreme Lord, the Absolute Truth, is pürna, or complete in Himself. And since
this cosmic world is a manifestation of His potency, it also appears to be pürna. In
other words, because this material world is an emanation from the Supreme Lord, it is
non-different from Him, exactly as the sun’s rays are non-different from the sun
globe, which is the source of their emanation. Similarly the living beings, who are
expansions of the superior, or conscious, energy of the Supreme Lord, are also non-
different from Him, although this non-difference is qualitative and not quantitative.
The gold found in golden ornaments such as rings and bracelets is qualitatively
identical with the gold in a mine, but the gold in the mine is quantitatively far superior
to the tiny quantity of gold in a bracelet or ring. Similarly, although we are
qualitatively one with God, being spiritual emanations of His unlimited potency, we
are quantitatively infinitesimal and eternally subordinate to His supreme power.
Therefore the Lord is called vibhu, or infinitely potent, and we are anu, or
infinitesimal and dependent.
This is further confirmed in the Vedik literature by the statement nityo nityänäm
chetanash chetanänäm eko bahünäm yo vidadhäti kämän (Katha Upaniñad 2:2:13).
There are innumerable eternal living entities who are eternally and totally dependent
upon the supreme singular living entity, the Supreme Lord. That dependence is not an
illusion created by material existence, as stated by the impersonalist philosophers, but
is an eternal relationship in which the Lord is eternally superior and we are eternally
inferior. The Lord is eternally independent, and we are eternally dependent. The Lord
is eternally absolute in Himself, and we are eternally relative to His supreme
personality.
Although the Lord is infinitely greater than any other living being, or than all of
them combined, every living being is qualitatively non-different from the Lord (as in
the example of the gold), because all living beings are parts and parcels emanating
from Him (mamaivämsho jiva-loke jiva-bhütah sanätanah [Bhagavad Gita. 15:7].).

nätah param parama yad bhavatah svarüpam


änanda-mätram avikalpam aviddha-varcah
pashyämi vishva-srijam ekam avishvam ätman
bhütendriyätmaka-madas ta upäshrito ’smi

SYNONYMS
na—do not; atah param—hereafter; parama—O Supreme; yat—that which;
bhavatah—of Your Lordship; svarüpam—eternal form; änanda-mätram—impersonal
Brahman effulgence; avikalpam—without changes; aviddha-varcah—without
deterioration of potency; pashyämi—do I see; vishva-srijam—creator of the cosmic
manifestation; ekam—one without a second; avishvam—and yet not of matter;
ätman—O Supreme Cause; bhüta—body; indriya—senses; ätmaka—on such
identification; madah—pride; te—unto You; upäshritah—surrendered; asmi—I am.

TRANSLATION
O my Lord, I do not see a form superior to Your present form of eternal bliss and
knowledge. In Your impersonal Brahman effulgence in the spiritual sky, there is no
occasional change and no deterioration of internal potency. I surrender unto You
because whereas I am proud of my material body and senses, Your Lordship is the
cause of the cosmic manifestation and yet You are untouched by matter.

PURPORT extract by HDG Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.


As stated in Bhagavad Gitä (18:55), bhaktyä mäm abhijänäti yävän yash chäsmi
tattvatah: the Supreme Personality of Godhead can only be partially known, and only
by the process of devotional service to the Lord.

The Quran says: "Ask them, 'Show me these partners whom you worship in place of
God. Have they created anything from earth or have they shared with God in the
creation of the heavens? Have we given them a book on which they rely in their
ascription of partners to us?' No, the wrongdoers deceive each other with their false
promises. Certainly it is God Who preserves the heavens and the earth from collapse
and annihilation; were they about to collapse and be annihilated; there is none other
who could preserve them. Know that God is most forbearing and forgiving." (35:40-
41)

But at the same time, not subjecting Him to our mundane limitations, if He so wants
to appear before us, then who are we to say He cannot. We may not understand, that is
another thing, still that doesn't mean He cannot do whatever He wants, when He
wants and to womb He wants, or interact with whoever He wants according to His
own sweet plan.

To Moses He appeared in the Form of a burning bush, again to Moses the mighty
hand of the Lord was seen in action separating the waters of the Red sea, the sound of
God that Moses heard upon the Mount when receiving the Ten Commandments, the
Lord also appeared in the Form of sound to Mohammed in the cave giving him Divine
instruction, and so on.

These are all Personal Attributes of the Supreme Absolute Lord.

Islam teaches that there are 99 names for the one God. Why? Because God is
Supreme, He is unknowable: Bigger than that, more than that. It is hard to put a frame
around the Divine.

So the 99 names are reminders of God's aspects or attributes: the Merciful, the
Compassionate, the Truth, the Light, the First, the Last, the Unfathomable, the
Exalter, the Abaser, the Creator. The hope is that by remembering God's names -- an
act known as dhikr in Arabic -- Muslims will look at the world and witness the divine
in everything and every situation by associating with the attributes of God - Allah.

It is one of the tools that Muslims use to know their creator better. By trying to
emulate the 99 ``beautiful names,'' as the Quran puts it, Muslims try to become better
people. God's names are their guide. God sets the example. During Ramadan, the
sacred month when followers of Islam commemorate the time when Mohammed
received sacred teachings from the Angel Gabriel, many Muslims pick one of the
Names of God to meditate upon each day: Al-Karim, the Generous One, or Al-Haqq,
the Truth, and meditate on it -- as one in another religion (discipline) might meditate
on a mantra . . . Obviously, we're dealing with a concept that's impossible to attach
words to, so these Divine Names provide a direction for understanding something
about the Divine.'' They are all of Divine attribute, adjectives describing the Person
God and His glories.
Personal or Impersonal?:
In religion, there are two concepts of God. One is a Personal God who is represented
by Yahweh in Judaism, Jehovah in Christianity, Allah in Islam, and Vishnu and Shiva
in Hinduism. In Buddhism and Taoism there is no emphasis on a Personal God. A
Personal God is one who is like a super being, an anthropomorphic entity, that rules
heaven and earth and has a purpose, intent, emotions and so on very similar to us jivas
- human beings.

Sometimes, due to seeing such similarities, some persons opt to accept only an
impersonal aspect of God, due to the frailties of man. But the difference in the two are
the natures of the two; God is full in all attributes, infallible, full of all opulence, all
famous, all powerful, all attractive, and eternally existing etc; us tiny souls may have
some of these qualities, but the proportionate quantity that we have them is different.
Sometimes an example is given of gold in a ring and gold in a mine - both are pure
gold, but the quantity of the gold in the ring and the mine are different. So similarly,
we may have so many attributes similar to His, but ours have less potency, and are
subject to the influences of the material world such as being imperfect, whereas God
is all perfect, we make mistakes, He never does, we are subject to illusion, He controls
illusion and dispels it to enlighten us, and so on.

By our material limited senses surely He is the Infinite God as being indescribable,
indefinable and inconceivable. However, that is not a lacking on His part, but a
lacking on ours. For to some He reveals His Divine nature, He reveals His attributes,
to some even His Personal Form.

If we say He cannot, then we're trying to put limitations upon Him, for He is the
Unlimited Independent Absolute free to do as He likes or does not like with, and in
His creation.

Some, who are of the impersonal schools argue that in Judaism, Christianity, Islam
and Hinduism, the personal God is given these all-knowing and omnipotent qualities,
but without the consideration that any description of God, is a limitation on God. The
Infinite God is beyond description and without limitations.

The fact of the matter is that from the Energetic the energy comes and not the other
way around. You may hear of me long before you meet me, and that is an impersonal
appreciation. After meeting me, to treat me impersonally doesn't match to the full
potential our a relationship, thus could be seen as being somewhat rude.

Some try to present that the Infinite God is the potential of all things and has no
beginning and has no end. The truth is however, as we pointed out earlier that as far as
spiritual nature of quality this may be true, but in quantity there's a vast difference in
potential. For the souls of this world are subject to birth, death old age and disease,
whereas God is not afflicted by such things.

When atheist reject the notion of a Supreme Being or God, they are really rejecting
the concept of a Personal God. To reject the Infinite God, the Infinite Oneness, is like
a fish denying the existence of the Ocean.

Examples of such impersonal inclination to the Infinite God is called "The Way" in
Taoism, "Brahman" in modern day Hinduism
and "Dhammakaya" in Buddhism. The Personal God of Vaishnavism (Sanatan Dharm
- before Hinduism was polytheism that it is today) Judaism, Christianity and Islam is
referred to as also being the Infinite God and yet
the emphasis is on the Personal aspects of God and not the features of God.

When one embraces the concept of a Supreme Personality as an Infinite God, one
understands that there is no difference between the Personal Gods who are
worshipped in different places in the world, of all races, religions, nations, and sexes.
Just as the Sun in the sky may have different names in different places according to
different cultures and languages. In America they call Sun, in Italy Sole, in India
Surya, among the Maori of New Zealand Ra, but it is the same Sun, just appearing in
different places to different peoples who are undergoing different karmas in different
longitudes and latitudes around the world. We are talking of the same thing.

Let us look at the case for iconoclasm.


It is true that if one wants a message to reach its said destination one has to follow the
authorized system of communication. Neither wishful thinking, nor any manner of
inventions, or speculation will suffice nor gain one's goal.
A simple example is that of the postal system; it's not that one can put one's mail in
any old box that stands by the side of the road and expect your mail to reach its
destination. Only the authorized box that is approved by the postal system, established
as the recognized manner of transmittance of "mail", will reach its destination or goal.
Other so-called methods, boxes by the side of the road may be categorized as; a
mistake - thinking that any old box or idol will be recognized as god - such a mistake
originates from, a lack of accurate knowledge. Such idolatry is condemned in all the
sacred scriptures of the world. Speculation; again comes from ill informed decisions
as what to do and what not to do. Often people that approach in this category are
desirous of achieving the goal, but are either misinformed as what to do, or think that
they can indeed do anything, or try anything that they like and reach the same
destination. Sometimes this is likened to one who wants to go to a valid destination
say Auckland, but who not knowing the approved, and direct route heads off in the
direction of Tauranga going towards Taupo...........! Some have suggested, the
"liberalistic free thinkers" that there is no problem with this as in time the person may
get to Auckland in due course of time. The unfortunate fact in many cases are
however, that there are just as many chances that the person may not reach the
destination too!

Examples of idolatry, monumentation, religious symbolism,


There have been many great men of saintly character over the centuries, to which men
have been grateful, have take shelter, such guidance. The memory of such men, not
mere men, but empowered saints not only give us good role models, but leave with us
epitaphs to their teachings and realization. Consequently out of gratitude to the
"saint", who by proof in his personal practical example in life, the people consider
him worthy by erecting a monument of him (or her), and by Divine rite he/she is
established in "sainthood". By this I do not suggest that saints are made by popular
opinion, yet an exemplary pure and Godly person, who genuinely does the work of the
Lord and who does so in a selfless and humble manner is a saint though walking
amongst us. But alas it has come these days, due to a misunderstanding of what is an
idol, what is an icon and the real and personal interaction with such saints, what to
speak of the Lord through such religious symbolic representations that there is no
proper regard for the memory of such a person, and as such the birds come and pass
stool on that form, and as for God because the human mind cannot comprehend their
being a personal form other than resembling our own, which has so many faults, their
deduction is that He too is formless.

Religious symbolism is universal to all religions. But how the symbols remind us of
our personal relationship with God make symbolism either worthy (a form of deity
worship), or unworthy (a form of idolatry). For example we see in many Christian
Churches the symbol of The Virgin Mary holding her young child Jesus the Christ,
truly a worshippable form. The symbol of the lamb, or the fish reminds us of events in
the life of Jesus, and so of Him. However, we do not worship a lamb or a fish
separately as being worshippable. In the same way the symbol of the cross, His
teachings in humility, tolerance, and mercy - the cross reminds us of Him.

In the same way when we see an icon or deity of Buddha sitting in a meditative pose,
we remember Him, His teachings, what He did for mankind, and out of gratitude want
to reciprocate with an offering of loving gratitude, maybe by offering a flower, or a
candle or a lamp. The same reciprocal mood of love is imbibed with the worship of
Deities in Vaisnava or Hindu temples. Lord Krishna Himself tells us in Bhagavad Gita
(the song of God) 9:27. "If you offer Me with love and devotion a leaf a flower or
some fruit I will accept that......!"

Of course just like in Christianity or Islam there have been unauthorized forms
presented, which have caused uproar to the devout. So in Hinduism sometimes strange
forms appear and are taken by uneducated persons to be the form of God, or the
various forms of God's administrative heads of the universe, are taken to be Him, or
that there are "many gods". So many misunderstandings are there.

The unfortunate context that has prevailed the centuries has been that of if it doesn't fit
within my particular paradigm, or angle of preaching at the moment; if it could be
seen as a political threat; if it would allow or keep those people who we rule over,
doing what they have been doing; ........then such religious symbolism, Deity worship
has been branded "Pagan", "heathen", "sacrilegious" etc., etc. And another system put
into place irrespective of its motives and possible faults!!!

The Quran says: "Some men regard other beings as equivalent to God and love them
as if they were God but the believers devote all of their love to God." (2:165) "Among
His signs are the night and the day and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down and
prostrate yourselves before the sun and the moon. Instead, prostrate yourselves
humbly before the God that created them." (41:37)

dhyeya sadA savitr maNDala madhyavartI


nArAyaNaH sarasijAsana sanniviSTaH
keyUravAn makara kuNDalavAn kirITI
hArI hiraNmaya vapuH dhrta zaGkha cakraH

"One should meditate on the form of the Lord Who is the source of the Sun's rays. He
as the primary creator is seated on a lotus, with golden bracelets, crown, shark
earrings; he is golden in complexion, and holds the shankha and chakra in his hands.
He alone is the cause of the Sun's shining." (Rg Veda)

Another View Of Historians And Missionaries Work.


In times just prior to Islam the unauthorized worship was rampant, it was nothing to
see people worshipping all manner of men, beasts, and bizarre combinations of the
two. And all to be taken as "God". With most forms of "Cleansing", the baby is often
thrown out with the bath water. And this was no different in ancient times as it is
today. The "authorities" of the time knew what needed to be stopped, but in order to
do so had to stop all manner of worship of speculative forms of deities, they banned
all deity worship. Anyone found worshiping a deity of any kind was put to death.
Later as Islamic conquerors invaded such countries where deity worship pervaded as
part of everyday functional life, such as in India these "upholders of the faith", the
iconoclasts, either smashed every deity without discrimination; defiled the temple that
the deity stood in; destroyed such a temple; then spreading ill-rumour, and editing
history, "created new history", or a combination of all of the above, with which to
establish their particular manner of faith as Absolute, and all others as "Infidels".
This was not particular to Islam. Christianity (in its numerous forms) did it, and are
still doing it all over the world. The zealous missionaries of the 19th century forged
not only new frontiers, but also forged many a history book in their attempt to convert
the "pagan savages" of Africa, the Americas (South America - Hawaii etc.), India,
Australia and New Zealand. In all of these countries an abundance of wealth was
displayed to allure the "poor savages" (often funded by either the church or a wealthy
merchant who carried a particular "faith" - or a combination of the two by which such
merchants/industrialists/ or even slave traders could exploit the colonies). Just for an
instant we could look at New Zealand. The Christian missions adhere to a story that
these pagan peoples know as the Maori had no goal in life, and were just waiting for
Christendom to come to their shores. Yet if we look back over the past hundred years
at some of the things that have been done in the name of helping these indigenous
people to know Jesus; the bloodshed, the manipulations of land, the conscripting and
sending of men to war to gain their land, laws passed defining Maori as not being
eligible for various things........, unless they accepted the Bible; prejudices forced by
Churchmen; ridicule and intimidation of the Maori culture, until the people
embarrassed, gave it up just to survive in the Christian world of education and
employment. The history books too have been carefully changed, the treasured
ancestral home, and origin of these proud and cultured people almost now lost into
political oblivion. Today the Maori (and other Pacific Islanders) are forced to follow
western methods of dress, linguistic interaction, schooling, employment (or rather
lack of it - unemployment), in accordance with the changing trends and plans laid
down by colonialistic forefathers.
Although many of the people of this Maori race are trying to gain their own identity
again, many (and I mean many) appear to be relics of a broken race. Their once proud
warrior stature lost to degradation in public drinking houses, betting shops and
hanging around the street or watching T.V. at home - a broken people. There is great
concern for the Maori youth, as so many are the instigators of crime, violence, and
gang activity - all symptoms of lack of identity. True that everything is a matter of
personal choice, to give up their former culture or not to; to engage in something
potentially harmful or not to; to allow oneself to be manipulated or not to; but we have
to be honest in recognizing how much influence vast amounts of money, troops and
educational or re-educational propaganda can have on an environment. To which we
can all thank the British Crown, and its Ministry's (the Christian Missions).

The following is an article found in the Watchtower magazine of te Jehova's


Witnesses, dated February 15th 1997., pages 25-28.
"Agreement Between "God's Temple" And Idols In Greece?
On this very hot summer day, the sun beats down on the glittering stones. The
extreme heat, however, does not seem to dampen the spirits and fierce determination
of a throng of devout Greek Orthodox pilgrims who head for the chapel at the top of
the hill.
You see an exhausted old woman, who journeyed from the other end of the country,
struggling to keep her tired feet going. A little farther up, an eager man is heavily
perspiring as he anxiously tries to make his way through the jostling crowd. And a
young girl, obviously in pain and with a desperate expression on her face, crawls on
her badly bleeding knees. The goal? To reach on time, to pray before and, if possible,
to touch and kiss the icon of the celebrated 'saint'.
Scenes similar to this one are repeated all over the world at places devoted to the
veneration of 'saints'. Apparently, all these pilgrims are convinced that in this way,
they are following God's way for approaching him, thus expressing their devotion and
faith."

I personally do not have a problem with asking an obviously advanced and devout
soul, either in his personal form - him standing there before me, or in his deity form,
either way, one of God's own, to help me in my progression along the same path
towards Him. This I believe to be the intrinsic difference in approaching a genuine
saint for help in one's devotional development, and going before someone like Sai
Baba, and a myriad of other modern day 'saints' and asking for material boons etc.

"The book Our Orthodox Christian Faith states: 'we commemorate [the saints], and
ascribe glory and honour to their holy personages....., and we ask their prayers before
God on our behalf and their supplications and aid in many needs of our lives...... We
recourse to the wonder-working Saints.....for our spiritual and bodily needs'. Also,
according to syndic canons of the Roman Catholic Church, 'saints' are to be invoked
as intercessors with God, and both the relics and the images of the 'saints' are to be
venerated.
The primary concern of a genuine Christian should be to worship God 'with spirit and
truth.'(John 4:24.) For this reason let us consider some facts about the way in which
the veneration of 'saints' was introduced as part of the religious practices of
Christendom. Such an examination should be very enlightening for everyone desiring
to approach God in a way acceptable to Him."

A few interesting statements are found here; It seems that some people don't think that
they need the help of devoted God conscious souls around them. I for sure do, in fact
many of us are honest enough to admit that we need all the help that we can get.
Spiritual life is sometimes described as being like one person reaching upwards to
God, while one person extends their hand offering a hand down-ward, to those less
fortunate, or less experienced or advanced in spiritual development. So not only do I
pray to the 'saints' but I pray to those devotees who are around me, that I can always
remain on the progressive path to pure God consciousness.

I find it a little disturbing, that always there seems to be some finger pointing within
the Christian camp as to who is a real or genuine Christian.
"How 'Saints' Were Accepted.
The Christian Greek Scriptures designate as 'holy ones', or 'saints', all those early
Christians who were cleansed by the blood of Christ and who were set apart for God's
service as prospective joint heirs with Christ (Acts 9:32; Corinthians 1:1;13:13.) Men
and women prominent and lowly ones in the congregation, all were described as 'holy
ones' while living here on earth. Recognition of their being saints Scripturally was
obviously not deferred until after they had died.
After the second century C.E., though, while apostate Christianity was taking shape,
the tendency was to try to make Christianity popular, a religion that would appeal to
pagan peoples and be readily acceptable to them. These pagans worshipped a
pantheon of gods, and the new religion was strictly monotheistic. So a compromise
would be possible through the adoption of 'saints', who would take the place of the
ancient gods, demigods, and mythical heroes. Commenting on this, the book
Ekkliasiastiki Istoria (Ecclesiastical History) states: 'For those being converted from
paganism to Christianity, it was easy to recognize their abandoned heroes in the
person of the martyrs and start rendering them the honour they previously gave to the
former ones...... Very often, however, the rendering of such honours to the saints
came to be pure idolatry'.
Another reference work explains how 'saints' were introduced into Christendom: 'In
the rendering of honour to the saints of the Greek Orthodox Church, we find obvious
traces of the strong influence that pagan religion had. Qualities that were attributed to
the Olympian gods before [people] were converted to Christianity were now ascribed
to the saints..... From the early years of the new religion, we see its adherents
replacing the sun-god (Phoebus Apollo) with the Prophet Elijah, building churches on,
or next to, the ruins of ancient temples or shrines of this god, mostly on the top of hills
and mountains, at every place where the ancient Greeks honoured the light-giver
Phoebus Apollo....... They even identified the Virgin-goddess Athena with the Virgin
Mary herself. Thus, the gap that was created when the idol of Athena was torn down
was eliminated

Empowered beings:
This is the promise of the Quran: "It is our will that we show favor to those who have
been oppressed throughout history for Me, by making them leaders and the inheritors
of the earth." (28:5) "God promises those among you who believe and do good deeds
that He will make you vicegerents on earth, that He will firmly establish the religion
He has chosen for you, and that He will bestow on all the believers safety after their
fear of the enemy this, in order that you might worship Me alone and not ascribe to
Me any partners/equals/counterparts." (24:55)

God is Great, There is only one God, He has many names, He has many pure devotees
- prophets
How A Muslim Came To Krsna
BY NARARATNA DAS

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 02:49:03 -0000


From: "vrnparker" <vrnparker@yahoo.com>
Subject: How A Muslim Came To Krsna

September 27, 2004 VNN8707

EDITORIAL, Sep 27 (VNN) — Hare Krsna Maharajs, Prabhus & Mothers.


Please accept my humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Some of you know me from Mayapur and what we are doing in the Middle East but
for those who don't, I'll give you a brief account of our history.

Yes! All glories to Srila Prabhupada transcendental book distribution & the
surrendered souls that distribute them, why?

Well, for 24 years I lived with my strict Muslim family as a descent Muslim in
London. Then in 1994, after watching most of my friends and 2 of my brothers
become swallowed and trapped by Regular material life (get married, get a house, go
to work every day, come home, watch TV, sleep and then get up to do the same
mundane things) I came to my senses and thought this can’t be all there is to live?
There must be something more although I was quite a happy positive 24 year old
adult, I didn’t feel satisfied. Something was always missing but what, I asked!! My
brothers & I were all brought up as strict Muslims following the principles of Islam.
My father would force us study the Koran, we would get the belt if we didn’t study
every night and memorize our verses. As life went by, I started asking questions that
were not answered, such as who is Allah, what does He look like, what does he do?
and What happens to people who die now, where does the soul go? And if God were
fair, why are souls put into different circumstances at the time of birth which gave rise
to a soul living and suffering in Africa while another soul, born to a rich American
family lives in complete comfort and safety? I was told I shouldn't ask such questions
and to not pursue the answers!

Unfortunately, this is how most Muslims are brought up, here are the rules to follow
and some little information but don't ask questions that can't be answered! This lack of
freedom and encouragement to enquire and question the teachings is what has led to
the kind of fanatic Muslims we have today.

(As His Divine grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada has stated, Philosophy
without Religion is mental speculation and Religion without the philosophy becomes
fanaticism.) Not that Islam doesn't have philosophy because it does but the way it is
being used and presented today is the problem. Fortunately for me, Krsna arranged
that I wasn’t completely happy. By the time I was 24, Krsna gave me the courage,
faith and push to stop everything and leave London on a planned two year trip that
would take me in a caravan from London through Europe, Eastern Europe, Turkey,
Iran, Pakistan and finally to India. My inspiration was this was the only way I could
satisfy myself, to learn as much as I could from other cultures and become a better
person. That final leaving day came, as I surrounded by heartbroken weeping family
members and friends, one of my brothers gave me a book. He said that a friend had
given it to him as a birthday gift but had been too busy to read it or even look at it. I
put it in my caravan and slowly drove away. I can honestly say that this was the most
painful time of my life, I was 24 yet I cried as I drove to the coast for the next 3 hours
and my so called heart was in London for the next 2 months! It was so hard to leave
things behind (even for just two years) and focus knowing that ` wouldn't see them for
a long two years. Inspite of this, I held on to the thought that if I really wanted to
become a better person, there was no other way! Six months later I found myself in
Turkey getting back into studying the Koran because unlike the Muslims I had known
in London who taught one thing but practiced something different, the Turks seemed
to apply the teachings of the Koran into their daily life a bit more. But Again as I read
and asked questions I came up against the same frustrations, a lack of satisfying
information for my queries. I put the Koran back onto my book shelf and feeling
dejected I went through my book shelf hoping there was something to enthuse my
soul. Suddenly a book jumped out at me. I didn't recognize it, it was the book that my
brother had given to me as I was leaving London. It had a beautiful picture of a blue
celestial person with 4 arms and the name of the book was just the title to excite me
THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALISATION, wonderful title! I couldn't put it down
until I had finished it all. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said I owed a magnificent day to
the Bhagavad Gita. It was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but
large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and
climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise us now.
His divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada answered all my questions
and gave me alot more in such clear and easy to understand English, just perfect! For
me a big hole in my life had just been filled and I felt little strange, pain from having
my false ego exposed and cut by the sword of knowledge but happy to finally get the
truth!
Now at least philosophically I knew we were all souls and there was a Supreme soul
Known as Krishna or Vishnu and we all had an eternal relationship With Him in the
spiritual world as well as here in this world of temporary life. In fact right there in
Turkey I started to apply this. I was alone in my caravan and my friend, his wife and
son were in another caravan. I would wake up early to do some exercises, feeling
alone I would imagine youthful Krsna jogging along side me and racing with him. I
would go to disco clubs and as the song would sing about a boy's love for a girl or
girl's love for a boy; I simply converted so that the song was about Krsna. Its was
great! My world was slowing changing so Krsna became the center.

Unlike Muslims (and preachers of other religions) who would tell me that only
Muslims would go to heaven, the rest would go to hell, Prabhupada said Doesn't
matter what bona fide process of religion you chose to follow, if that process increases
your love and attraction to God (krsna), the supreme personality of Godhead, then that
process was perfect.

This simple but pure truth was so pleasing to hear, I would hate it and reject whatever
when people said this is the only way. Of course, I immediately understood and
accepted that this Vedic knowledge gave me what the Koran was giving me and the
bonus of alot more confidential (higher) information about God and as Prabhupada
again so innocently says how could you or anyone love God if you know nothing or
very little about Him, so more detail information was essential and natural just like in
any other relationship.

I looked for a Krsna conscious temple or some kind of center but nothing existed here
in Turkey. I was hungry for more information and practical tips on how to perform
bhakti-yoga in daily life. Just before I left Turkey the same brother who had given me
the book visited me here and all I could talk about was this Vedic information and
how it had completely changed my outlook on life, from a selfish materialist to a
thoughtful understanding human willing to live with, work with and love all species of
life as members of my own family. My brother appreciated the concept but said that
unless everyone changed at the same time it wouldn't work. So why bother! I simply
answered that the change must start with the man in the mirror! To my great surprise
two weeks later I received a parcel from him. Eventhough he thought Vedic teachings
were somewhat different from Islam still he had gone to the temple, bought and sent
me the Jewel of all Eastern philosophy The Bhagavad Gita. I still don't think he
knows how much I appreciated this because I knew he didn't like the Bhagavad Gita
(thinking it was some Indian book for Indians) but he sent it because I liked it. I don't
know if you can understand, but this was a Muslim buying something for another
Muslim that (in his eyes) could possibly lead him (me) astray.

I was eating the Bhagavad Gita night and day.


From the transcendental pages of the Bhagavad Gita I learnt about my real identity,
nature around me, why we all exist, how we are interconnected and of course how to
attain full freedom by self realization. And for me this was the answer to all our
worldly problems, this was the information that everyone needed to hear and know to
gain real internal peace and happiness. I knew with this information the world could
really be a happy place with everyone living and working in harmony. Later on I
would accept this as my duty to humanity.

As a result of this I became a strict vegetarian (actually only eating food that was first
offered to Krsna), I started chanting the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra and following the
four regulative principles given to bring one to the human platform of life.

1, No intoxications
2, No eating Meat (include chicken, fish and eggs)
3, No sex outside of marriage
4, No gambling

I was so happy and stress free. Really! I was singing the Hare Krsna mantra in the
rain, at work, everywhere! People were asking me what is this song and how come I
was so happy and full of positivity so I would explain it to them and some would try
to sing the mantra with me.

On observing Turkish people and how nice and openly friendly they were to everyone
I remember saying there should definitely be a Krsna conscious temple or some kind
of center here, that would be great!! Yes, just a dream? (a dream that Krsna would
later manifest? Let’s see?) There was no such center in Turkey, neither was anything
listed in Iran or Pakistan had to patiently drive and wait until I got to India to meet
devotees who practiced this bhakti-yoga way of life.

I drove to Vrindavan and upon hearing the hare Krsna Maha mantra being sung so
sweetly at night and seeing all the devotees sparkle and dance in ecstasy, I knew this
was the life for me. and joined the Hare Krsna Movement there but after 4 days I was
advised that Mayapur would suit me better as it was the center of learning. The night I
arrived in Mayapur I was introduced to Jananivas and pankajangri prabhus because
they came from London too. The next morning I took a bath in mother ganga but on
trying to get into my van ` suddenly realized that ` had swum with the keys to the van
in my pocket and now they had gone! Devotees joked that Caitanya Mahaprabhu
didn’t want to leave me with a way to escape so of course I joined the bhakta training
program for 3 months and on completion I then immediately joined the interfaith
communications program. This project attracted me because I had read and seen so
many people and organizations try to use knowledge and religion to create distinctions
for the purpose of segregating people but these devotees had the aim of bringing all
people and their religions together under one flag through the spiritual scientific
analysis and understanding of Science, Philosophy and Religion.

After being there for one year receiving further education and learning how to
practically apply this philosophy in my own life, I was happily shocked and amazed
when the head of this dept said ok, you are ready to start helping others and we think
you should go and start sharing this knowledge with others. And which place did they
think I should go to? Yes! Turkey.

This was like sweet music to my ears. Although everyone that I spoke to told me I
should NOT go because I was relatively new and Muslim people specially in Muslim
countries were heavy, no place for a new devotee! Fortunately, Krsna gave me such a
clear feeling that this was what he wanted me to do as my service to Him. It was very
clear to me that He had prepared me for this so I didn't feel scared at all. I knew He
was behind me and in front of me.

So, after praying intensely to all the presiding deities in Mayapur,SRI SRI RADHA-
MADHAVA / LORD NARASIMHADEVA and THE PANCA TATTVA and asking
all the devotees to give us their blessings, we set of for Turkey in 1996.

The plan was to slowly expose ourselves to this new environment in stages.

We would go for 3 months first then return for 6 months then go for 6 months and
return for 6 months. Our stay in Mayapur didn't lose its focus on our objectives. We
continued to study, research and compile books aimed at bringing people of all
religions together. We wrote five books specially connected with Krsna Consciouness
and Islam.

1,SRILA PRABHUPADA ON ISLAM( everything His Divine Grace A.C.


Prabhupada ever said about Islam)

2,BHAKTI YOGA and ISLAM (questions and answers encountered in the field by
Srila Prabhupada & devotees sharing Krsna Consciousness with Muslims in Muslim
countries)

3,THE HIDDEN TREASURE OF AL-QURAN. (The HOLY QURAN as explained


by CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU)

4,COMPARATIVE COSMOLOGY. (a comparative study of Modern science, the


QURAN, the BIBLE and VEDIC KNOWLEDGE) 5,ENLIGHTENMENT OF
CHAND KAZI. (The teachings of Caitanya Mahaprabhu to the Muslim leader Chand
Kazi)
6,KRSNA CONSCIOUNESS & ISLAM. A newly produced 20 hour double CD
presentation about KC & Islam.

The books are designed to help Krishna-conscious devotees present a Vedic viewpoint
to members of the Muslim community in a non-argumentative way, as well as to
encourage Muslim readers to deepen and strengthen their efforts at God-realization.
Our goal is to build a strong foundation of mutual understanding so that everyone's
love and devotion towards the Supreme Lord whom we call Krsna and whom
Muslims call Allah -- can be ignited and cultivated favorably.

So, you can see we were very serious and committed to this goal as a life time
mission.

The first 3 month period in Turkey was both wonderful and very difficult. Wounderful
because we were experiencing a closeness to Krsna that I hadn't experienced even in
Mayapur. Our prayers were intense especially to Lord Nrishimhadeva because we
were alone in a Muslim country, no temple, no devotees, no kirtans, no Indian
community and no support! Just the two of us! We could clearly feel and see how
Krsna was behind everything that happened to us. For example, we had practically no
money and we expected to be sleeping on the beach but Krsna arranged that someone
offered us their cafe floor to sleep on after it closed at 10pm.

Then someone offered us a half complete flat to stay in, no windows or doors but
there was water and a roof which was better that nothing! Then for 3 weeks I suffered
from Malaria, I really thought I might leave my body. During the day I would ok and
would go around looking for a job then come 4pm the hellish region would descend
on me and all night I would struggle with a burning body, the amazing thing was each
time I would come back to an awaken state ` found myself chanting hare Krsna so I
really wasn’t scared of dying but luckily again Krsna was there to finally arrange
some free treatment, they took care of me in hospital for 2 weeks something that
would have cost us thousands we got for free. Slowly we got to know the people but
we couldn't really find anyone who was interested in spirituality. Language was one
big barrier we would have to overcome and the area we were in was made up of
mostly conservative Muslims. Nevertheless, we had expected things to be like this so
had planned that the first stage of our service would be to simply get to know the
environment and the people.

The second and third time around we planned to stay for 6 and then 9 months, each
time continuing where we had previously left off.

As we moved around and stayed in different areas we got to know the people more
and more and how things worked here, we got jobs that allowed us to really mingle
and become like normal people (from this angle we hoped we could better understand
the people’s problems and how best to help them. This gave us the time and
experience to really see and feel how people reacted to our exsistence and our
presentations. We came to realize a very important point, these Muslim people were
very nice helpful and welcoming but if you push the wrong buttons and touch some
sensitive areas in the wrong way, specially topics connected with their religious
sentiments then your so called friendly friend could change into an erupting volcano
in seconds. So be careful out there when you are dealing with Muslims dont judge the
book by the cover. Actually, any areas, make a commitment, be patient & get to know
your field before you farm it.

Prabhupada often compares us to doctors and what we have to give as the all
liberating medicine so a good doctor studies his patient first then prescribes the right
medicine in the right dose.

I always remember being told in Mayapur by our leader that for this service we had to
give up the conditioning and identity that we were preachers and just see ourselves as
normal people living among others because Muslims are really sensitive about people
trying to change them and they can sense it immediately. People should see and really
feel that we are simply living our personal life styles and whoever is interested in
what we do, we are happy to share this spiritual culture with them. What they do with
that info afterwards must be left to them. As Krsna says in the Bhagavad Gita ( 18.63
) to Arjuna

Thus I have explained to you Knowledge still more confidential. Deliberate on this
fully, and then do what you wish to do.

After our 9 month stay, we had to make an huge decision. In Mayapur our same team
ran two departments: The interfaith communications dept and the Bhaktivedanta
Research Institute which had produced 12 books for the education of both devotees in
The Hare Krsna Movement and the general mass of people. Unfortunately the time
had come where we could no longer be in two places for parts of the year, India and
Turkey.

Turkey needed us to be there all year round. We knew that for this project to develop
nicely, we had to be there full time and there was no one else who would do it so in
1999 we left our merciful base Mayapur and headed for full time Turkey.

This moved us into stage two of our plan. We found and started to rent a flat of our
own where we soon held Sunday programs and the reading of The transcendental, all
liberating, Bhagavad Gita.
We started to teach people about The Vedic culture way of life, mantra meditation,
vegetarian cooking and playing traditional devotional music. All aimed at the
liberation of the soul, giving him entrance into the spiritual realm. We are
endeavoring to continue to do that same.

One of the main problems we have faced is the small numbers of people that have
come to our program when you compare that to the 19 million people that live in this
city. We have no choice other than to slowly get to know people and see if they
themselves are interested in what we have to offer, slowly cultivating that interest and
then if it's safe (as in they won't call the police upon seeing or hearing something they
don't like in our flat) we extended an invitation to our flat to learn more about the
benefits of meditation and self realization. Fortunately, we have never had any
complaints from anyone; even our neighbours don't mind the singing on Sunday. We
have always focused on developing good friendly relationships with everyone. After
all we want to give this opportunity to everyone. Once, we even had concerned
parents of one boy come to see what their son was getting into, but when they came
they really liked what they heard, the teachings of Bhagavad Gita ( we aren't body, we
are soul, as such we are all related as brothers and sisters with one Supreme father, so
try to give up using and abusing each other and try to help each other come to the
point of real understanding, real peace, real love, only to be experienced through full
self realization which this Vedic knowledge is teaching).

You can imagine how much time & energy this takes with each person, plus the fact
that we have to work at the same time in order to be able to maintain everything
financially, not easy!

Since personally coming here in 1996, we have spent the first 3 years part time
moving around this city and then another 3 years based in one flat (temple) and then
last year we moved to the flat we are in now. During this time we have got to know
the people, the country, the culture, the police and how they all work and interact
better, we now feel confident that more people are interested and will come to learn
more about Vedic culture, yoga, mantra meditation, vegetarianism and eventually
bhakti yoga if given the chance. We have always faced two problems, TIME &
MONEY.

To generate money to finance things we have to sacrifice time doing jobs and
spending time with people that are not interested in spiritual life.

Remember, this isn’t England where you can get donations from the locals to help,
these are Muslim people in a Muslim country. This means only a small amount of out
potential time is really spent with people personally helping them. At present I pay
600 dollars per month for our flat and definitely we will be here for a long time. From
1998 I've helped support other Iskcon projects as well as this project by selling my
small flat in London. Now I don’t have any bulk money left. I just depend on what I
earn monthly to run everything here. As taught by Srila Prabhupada, we are always
trying to be self dependent and not hassle others but in this case, I really do
desperately need your assistance. We now have a strong desire to buy the flat we are
currently in or one similar in a similar location.

I really dislike it when it seems like we are wasting Krsna's money thus I feel a little
frustrated because I don’t have the money to buy this place but are giving 600 dollars
a month to the bin! Please help me stop wasting Krsna's money and purchase our own
place for two big reasons.

1, As renters we can be kicked out anytime if someone doesn’t like us for any reason
which is a daily possibility and will become more likely if more people come. In real
life here, a renter has no rights. On the other hand we will have full rights to do what
we want as long as it is within the confines of our flat if we own it. Of course we will
not be disrespectful or thoughtless. As Prabhupada says, we must always be respectful
and courteous even to our enemies, so if we want to invest our time and energy here to
develop a spiritual oasis where people can come and revitalize themselves, owning
our own property is a must.

2, Of course we will save alot of money. Instead of paying 7,200 dollars per year for
the next 20 years and get nothing, we can pay a similar amount and within 20 years
we will have our own building. No more rent!! Radha-istanbulisvara will have their
own place and devotees won’t have to worry about paying the rent. They can fully
focus on the real work, rescuing souls from the clutches of this temporary material
energy and setting them free.

So many of the younger generation are interested in learning about spiritual life but
are afraid to come and ask because of social pressure from the older more
conservative Muslims but finally under pressure from the youth of today and the
European union spiritual or religious organizations will be given the rights and
freedom to practice. This will take EVEN MORE TIME to actually manifest in
people’s attitudes but the green light is definitely coming in the future.

So when that clear green light comes this center will be ready to transform into a fully
fledged legal Hare Krsna center operating directly as Srila Prabhupada wanted, giving
everyone the chance to experience the alternative to the struggle and stress of the
imbalanced material life that is currently on offer to the frustrated soul. Openly, freely
and directly educating people in all aspects of spiritual life and how to directly apply
such knowledge in daily life so that each and every individual can become a happy
person and from a happier person we get a happier family, a happier city, a happier
nation and eventually a happier world for everyone. Please feel our sincerity, see our
commitment and understand Krishna is pleased by any service you do but this service
really does have a special place in Prabhupada's heart. As he himself said those who
preach to Muslims, I take the dust from their lotus feet. You can just read this as any
other pamphlet, walk away and nothing will happen but I'm personally begging you
not to do that. Please decide right now what you can do to help and contact us at
visnupada@hotmail.com or harekrishnaturkey@yahoo.com

Here are some of my suggestions (we need 120 thousand dollars): 1, we only need
120 devotees (individually or collectively) to donate 1,000 dollars each.

2, Devotees can loan us 1,000 dollars each and specify how long they could give it to
us for so those who need it back the quickest will be paid back first.

I am personally willing and able to pay back 600 dollars per month to anyone that
loans us any money or arranges a loan for us.

3, Someone can secure us a 120 thousand dollar (mortgage) loan for which the place
can be registered in their name as security and I will pay back 600 dollars per month
(if we don’t buy a place I will have to pay 600 dollars per month as rent anyway so I
can do this)

Please empower us to give them such a nice revitalizing experience that they will be
inspired to look deeper into the subject of real health, the needs of the soul. As Srila
Prabhupada has said we are concerned to have conviction as opposed to conversion.

We are trying to inspire devotees to take advantage of the most auspicious day on
which to give your donation on Radhastami, fasting till noon.
I would be very encouraged and happy to hear your comments on this
or any suggestions you may have to help us achieve this goal that is
very pleasing to Srila Prabhupada and the whole Parampara.

Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

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