ello all,

i am
working as
design
engineer in
consultancy
, as per our
practice, we
provide
design
reinforceme
nt in (L/4)
from
support.
but no one
told me its
reason.
please tell
me , why
do we
provide
shear
reinforceme
nt in L/4
region??

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Abishek_Sii Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:39 am Post subject:

ngh
Bronze I have seen many consultants doing so, very reputed ones.
Sponsor
There is no reason written. Some of the reasons I have heard from these consultants
are:

1. It avoids confusion at site.

2. Detailing on the drawing is clean.

Now from my point of view, you should provide shear reinforcement as per
IS:13920, that is, spaced at d/4 up till 2d from the face of the column towards the
mid span, but is should not be less than 100 mm c/c. If shear requirement beyond
2d is substantial then you can increase it up to the shear cutoff point. For the
remaining distance you should provide at max spacing of d/2. Also, from my point of
view, the shear spacing should not be converted suddenly from d/4 to d/2 but should
Joined: 18 Nov be gradual.
2010
Posts: 609 Many consultants do not follow this and blindly provide up till L/4, because, they are
Location: New scared and also because they do not want to take the pain of scrutinizing every
Delhi
beam in detail.This action is dishonesty towards work. Another reason they cite is
that since the top longitudinal extra bars are curtailed at L/4 so shear reinforcement
should also be curtailed at L/4 which is utterly wrong.

Ductile detailing codes have been written and approved by the best brains of the
country taking into account all the possibilities and hence it is our moral and
professional duty to follow them.

Please be advise that providing shear reinforcement up till L/4, when there is no
shear requirement so high up till that point, is a wrong detailing practice and should
be avoided.
_________________
Thank you,
 Abishek Siingh

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umeshrao Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Design of shear reinforcement
...
Avinash wrote:
hello all,
i am working as design engineer in consultancy, as per our practice, we provide
design reinforcement in (L/4) from support. but no one told me its reason.
please tell me , why do we provide shear reinforcement in L/4 region??

Dear Mr. Avinash,

Joined: 23 Aug
2010 As I understand there are two queries.
Posts: 573 1--- Why top bars are extended upto L/4 span in the beam
Location: 2--- Why shear reinforcement is provided.
Bangalore, Your office practice seem to have been developed,considering that load on
India
beam is udl and has fixed support conditions. And hence,
1--- The point of contraflexture is at 0.21L from the support, beyond which
tension at the top of beam is zero. That is the reason why top bars are curtailed at
L/4 from support.
IS 456 clause 26.2.3.4 states that bars shall be extended beyond the point of
inflection[ contraflexture] for a distance not less than the effective depth or 12 times
bar dia or 1/16 of clear span,whichever is greater. Our practice is to provide L/3 and
not L/4.
2---Shear reinforcement is provided to cater for the force perpendicular to
longitudinal axis of the element. Since concrete is weak the shear is catered using
strut and tie model,as in latticed truss. The vertical legs of stirrups carry tension and
concrete compression. And hence dowel action of tension reinforcement is
considered as dowel action.
Regards Umesh Rao

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Abishek_Sii Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:45 am Post subject:

ngh
Bronze Dear Umesh Sir,
Sponsor
From the title written in the subject of this post I thought he was talking about the
placement of shear reinforcement.

Joined: 18 Nov
2010
Posts: 609
Location: New
Delhi

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umeshrao Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:03 am Post subject:
...
Kumar_Abhishek_Singh wrote:
Dear Umesh Sir,
From the title written in the subject of this post I thought he was talking about
the placement of shear reinforcement.

Dear Abhishek,
Joined: 23 Aug
I agree with you that the title leads to the thought process when replied. But
2010 when I read the content I thought the query seem to be in two parts. And hence my
Posts: 573 reply.
Location: You have been doing wonderful job and very proactive,too. I am glad that I know
Bangalore, you atleast on the SEFI forum.
India
God Bless You.
Regards Umesh Rao

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yousha Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:51 pm Post subject:

...
Dear Dignitaries of this discussion...

I think he is asking about the spacing of shear reinforcement near the supports.

And the curtailment bar provided at the top of the beam is known as negative
reinforcement. This is provided in order to take care of the negative bending moment
developed at the supports. Shear is maximum at the supports, so we are reducing
Joined: 07 Nov the spacing of the shear reinforcement near the support.
2010
Posts: 72
Location:
Chidambaram

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vikram.jeet Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:16 am Post subject: Design of shear reinforcement
General
Sponsor Shear reinforcement --spacing variations along span

It all depends upon the designers. Every design office has its own
norms. Aim is to avoid human errors at site but consideration to
ductile detailing must be adhered.

Mostly seismic ductile detailing demands d/4 spacing in region 2*d

from support and further as per design requirements but minimum d/2.
Joined: 26 Jan
Beam depths are normally in range of L/12 .So D = L/12
2003
Posts: 2212 The region 2*d corresponds to L/6 approx., where d/4 limitation
(for ductililty) ends .
(i) But instead of changing at L/6, the design office in question adopt
to change the spacing at L/4 ,of which there seems no harm.
The inner half of beam will be provided with spacing as per design
needs of section L/4 , but minimum d/2.

(ii) Other office can adopt L/6 as the change point but then inner half
needs to be designed for higher SF of L/6.

Unless beam is too long , the beams are divided into three zones
for spacings and L/4 change point seems to be a general practice.

Some designers were earlier adpoting five zones

as L/6, L/3 Middle third,L/3 and L/6. Though this may save some rings
 but complication at site is more in reading and providing, especially
where work is not supervised properly.Shear reinf is about 15 to 25%
of main reinf and we should be wise in detailing it for site convenience
and not act as techno- clerks (without any regard to site conditions)

Best regards

vikramjeet

--

Posted via Email

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Abishek_Sii Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:45 am Post subject:

ngh
Bronze Dear Mr. Vikramjeet,
Sponsor
I have a humble direct question for you.

If the shear force diagram for the worst case, ( in a beam) is not giving substantial
shear beyond 2d then what is the point of blindly providing shear reinforcement uptill
L/4. Don't you think that providing uptill L/4 is a lot of waste of steel when we think
in terms of a big project of twenty towers 30 story high with entire area connected
by extended basements??

I am working for a developer so I have to think in terms of cost also. Nothing is

going from consultant's pocket.

Kindly share your valuable exoperience.

Joined: 18 Nov Best regards Sir,

2010 _________________
Posts: 609 Thank you,
Location: New Abishek Siingh
Delhi

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vikram.jeet Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: Design of shear reinforcement
General
Sponsor Dear Er KA Singh

I agree with you . Whatever practice is adopted ,it must be structurally sound and
there is
absolutely no harm of change point at 2*d so long as there exists three zones of
spacings
in a beam span from site convenience.Only in very long span beams five zones can
be
meaningful.The posting from me was intended for consideration to inconvenience
Joined: 26 Jan
caused
2003
Posts: 2212 to site by some designers providing five zones of spacing change in all beams.

I appreciate your attitude as designer of structures.

best wishes and regards

vikramjeet