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and doesnt even have to build then there is

They are shipping this stupid thing it
Terry

and Beta and whatever that youre going to go

heck of lot of testing processing

be lot later than this Friday

through between now and then and the date can

MT All right so how is this answer

And then we decide that oh we cant let Terry go do this thing until then
Terry

Ml right right right we cant do that am just reluctant to sign up for the political

fight that is going to ensue from this

JZ Which political fight is this.

Terry Giving me two weeks

MT Fighting over Terrys body

JZ see

Ml OK guess have to have little fight today

JZ So how much work is..

Terry Idont know

JZ You have no idea..

number when asked but the work involved

Terry pulled the two weeks out of my butt

is
go make an abstract API..

JZ wait wait wait wait what is it

theyre asserting intellectual property claims over

exactly Does anyone know the answer to that

Terry The API apparently as well as the infloatation...

MT Well the infloatation obviously

JZ Obviously

Terry Obviously but the API as well

MT You have to get different license in order to explode their API

Terry Really

MT Yeah

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JZ In order to expose calls into their code which is mean you could interpret

expose their API as meaning something else as meaning allow other people to cafl

in to their code or something like that

MT Oh see what youre saying

JZ Which is know thats one thing that they were concerned about was they didnt

want us to ship something that general purpose enough that we were effectively

giving away their database

Right like used to do with Motif like against Navigator..

laughter

JZ If we had exposed their Java Script interface that was like general purpose

database that happened to be using their thing at the back end they would have

flipped

MT And you understand that right

Terry Yes

MT have to admit dont really understand

that.js
the most important thing in the

universej

Terry No person who actually thinks in rational lines of thoughts understand why we

cant do this..

JZ Except lawyers dont actually ever tell you that you cant do that

Terry Of course they do..

JZ No they dont lawyers say

Im concerned..

MT Lawyers dont tell

you anything all they do is give you information and advice

and tell you how concerned they are about something..

They say if you dont do this then wont be held liable because..

JZ Well theyre never held liable no matter what you do

MT No theyre never held liable theyre just like...

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JZ They think the odds are high that you will that it will cost us this much money
say

if you take this path thats the kind of answer theyll give you

Terry In this particular case its more of you need to do this to completely cover your ass

JZ OK

MT Thats your take on it

Terry Thats my spin thats my impression And dont know how uncovered our asses

are going to be

MT If someone actually talked to Liv Neal on this Ijust need to find out who that

person

break

MT And Everybody except Jeff Weinstein and Jim Roskind said oh Ill be done

tomorrow

Terry Thats good they said that credibly

JZ And what did Jeff say

NIT Jeff was silent by his absence thems lot of that going around Whats up Alan

Do you have the contents of the copyright notice that has to go to documentation

ckc
MT do not That acknowledgedihe receipt of the asking of the question
buj/we

laughter Well just want to let you know exactly where it is..

JZ Is there like Fed-ex tracking number on that question laughter

Ml Well as matter of fact..

JZ It left the gate in Tulsa..

It turns out that we could have put documentation out them before our source if we

can get
that
..piece of content solved before we got our license solved it turns out

its gonna be the backwards..

co
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Cant we just like put license copyright on the source that says completely

property of Netscape do not eat and then change it later

Yes we can use the same one as on Deb Edge

JZ OK why arent we doing that

Because we cant get the lawyers to say its ok

MT No no the lawyers never tell

you its ok they only advise

We havent go the lawyers to respond to that question

MT OK heres what you should heres the

way you should solve the problem you

should say heres my source code with the restrictive copyright on it Tom Paquin

please publish this..

JZ The documentation not the restrictive copyright

MT Yeah yeah. .ha ha would like to give this to

you for you to publish and will

completely support when he comes back here and says should let Alan do this

Ill say yes you should let Alan do this

OK and you think the copyright thats on Deb Edge is sufficient

Ml We should make that be Toms problem and not yours

JZ think that copy right the copyright we eventually end up using will be less

restrictive than that

rirj-mr\ 04er

By Michael

MT By Alan thanks for coming by

JZ So think managed to convince Mitchell that if the license

goes out with Clause

in tact no one will use it and theyll issue all of their new code under another

license..

Ml Well thats the whole reason were doing the licensed Beta right..

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break

JZ As far as the software universe goes Im not concerned becaseu feel like no

matter mean even if section stays in as it is now..

MT Oh theyll just take our source code and..

JZ can make Mozilla.org work there will he code in there under two licenses and

then client
eng is
gonna have bitch of time because theres code under one

license and code under another license and they like have hard time accepting

that other license ri tsothathasto ts non-issue really..

MT False

The hitch is that being under mean if someone put...with themselves in Section

thats just as bad for Netscape

MT True

Because it means we cant..

Thats what mean theres no reason for me to put new code in under BSD rather

than put it under the Netscape NPL..

MT So at one point and time Mike Homer promised not to sell other peoples code But

he cy if thats the thing which makes the steal we can make that promise

JZ Yes

Ml Is that

JZ The problem is what the license calls modifications

break

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LWM...

tell us what youre gonna do now

Well You lot of bugs and its been really difficult to complete all the bugs that hes
got

doing and basically what hes trying to do is hes trying to remove all of the reference to

code urn and reason for that because our

security in our source base the doing is

government preventsus from exporting any references to security any cryptography

and the act of putting the source code on the netMresults in all that code being
algorithm

-fr2y
available world wide So not only is it illegal for us to release that code but we can

actually go to jail for it its criminal offense believe it or not So this is kind of the

most important thing that we have to do to the source code right now is remove every

single reference to security and cryptography everywhere and Jeffs been working on that

and Im gonna go over and find our whats going on with that right
now

This is not simple fix

No the security code is intermingled throughout our source base and we never thought that

wed ever have to release our source base like this in public forum and so now we have

to go back and find all the places where we put security code and remove them so in

sense its more challenging than other work that we have to do.t%1

How is 331 looking

Its pretty tight but you know its not something unusual at Netscape were always...last

minute and everybody works really hard to meet the deadline so its not the worst deadline

Ive ever seen

This is Ellis Island right in the Middle there this is Ellis Street and in the middle is Ellis

Island its very dangerous place to be..

ri

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Ive actually never been in this building..

Third floor is minimal .--

security..

have no idea where we are

Wheres the hit zone

Were going over here zeroing in on Jeff Weinstein./

JC Oh think were getting close...hey heres Jeff How are you doing

JW OK

JC Well you are officially the most doomed individual in the company

JW So whats going on

JC am on mission have to find out..

JW Yeah so over the weekend had bunch of stuff ready to check in but urn

didnt know had some extra files to add and didnt know what to add on the

Mac how to add the files

JC OntheMac

JW Yeah

JC For which particular areas

JW Well the thing is can check in Im checking in new files right so been changing

to MEG files right on the Mac you know they use the project files and didnt

know if should just check them in or..

JC Uh probably not..you should probably work with Scott

JW Yeah so sent tried to page sent mail to Mac Devon paged Tara...and never got

any response from any body

JC can help you with that Scott is back in town today so he can help you

JW So what Im going to do is check dump stuff in and thats sort of stepping stone

the out the security

along way to ripping stuff..

JC So what are you checking in exactly

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JW OK so basically Im checking in bunch of markers in the code that say heres the

sections that need to be removed and then urn basically Ive taken bunch of code

that was in line and directly in Meg Net and within other places in the client in the

security libraries so instead of stub out like 15 calls can stubb out one
just

So basically what gonna do what want to do is Im gonna check this stuff in

and then Ill have working build with security still in but with the all the pieces

for removal in place and then the next thing would do is immediately do try to

do build with it all removed and see what breaks and thats sort of where Im at
JC So how do we turn off the code then it is build flagged

JW Yeah

JC OK so you put the markers in and well build with the markets make sure thats

still working and build it

again without the markers and. .all that
right ..so is

gonna cover all of your at once

bugs all or..

JW Urn it should cover most of them here..

JC Some of them are on Tara actually

JW Yeah those are. yeah some of these can already actually already clear out

JC OK can you mark those for me so know..

JW can close that one becaMi were not shipping that..some of these Ill have to look

at becaseu dont think theres anything to be there like this

mungs string

thing...um .this one can close as soon as check with Stephan um same with

this one...yeah bunch of these almost all of these are be...I should have
gonna

them closed

JC So when are you going to check those in

JW As oon as can get help...rnaybe should just get Tara to close the tree and to let

me check this stuff in because..

JC OK so
you dont have window when you could check in
your bugs
_1

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JW havent negotiated window...and like said tried paging these guys on

Saturday and didnt get any kind of response..

JC and whats gonna be left once youve check that in whats gonna be left to do
JW Basically then have to try building it without with the security stuff out and then

see what breaks

JC So that might take while

JW Urn hopefully Ill get most of it done tonight Im gonna be here. .as..

JC Conservatively when would you say

JW Id say conservatively by Wednesday but yeah mean Im still if cant build or

whatever that tirne then and thats

during all bets are off the problem Ive been

running up against you know lost half of last week bec4I couldnt build and

half the weekend becabJ couldnt get hold of anybody. .so..

JC So if we held the tree closed for while would that help you to building
get stage

JW Urn well can build right now the problem right now ..well of course just

looked at tinder box and its in flames at the moment so

JC So are you all right

JW Yeah mean people seern to be working on it

JC Theres also theres people that were wondering..

JW It might be advisable just to close the tree and let this stuff get back in the
green

JC And then let you in

JW And then can go in immediately after that yeah

JC Are you gonna come at 330 today

JW Urn can

JC Well is it more important for

you to be here and working

JW It
depends if Im in the middle of checking in Ill just
stay here and continue urn

if Im not then Ill come over..

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JC Mi right and its gonna be in the

pit too

JW Yeah

JC ...theres also people were wondering if they should remove todays functions

one of them is named

JW They should just leave all that stuff alone for now

JC OK so can cross that one off so its not illegal to have all that stuff in there

JW Right Im going through and doing taking care of all of those things

JC all
so um those the of accounts
right are issues set up too Are you worried

about that one..

break

You want to have obscure someone looks

just so over your shoulder they cant
it if

see your password

So who do you expect..

Urn expect that well worry about that after 331

x-
If they can tell me where what directory their code is in can go look at it and then

tell them what..

JW can add to the bug here..

break

MT Brain trust

Did other directories other directories that like this that dont have
say....or things

to go out Should all these directories go out to..

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MT In the long term your life is going to be hard unless you do that

Do that right

But as told him it doesnt have to happen by 331 but if you can figure out

way to do it before that

Thats easy to figure out right so you say copies minus slash source NS

linked to whatever prior directory..

Yeah but make

youve got to go in and change all the files and all the other shit

LT The test are they build as part tests or em out of there If

..just get you can get

em out of there get em out

Just do the and dont dont him

right thing tell us or tell

lauhter/
LT Right were tracking we need to track that files off
are signed on that

everybodys read and looked make

at the files to sure that one we wrote the code

that the code is either copy righted either to or to

Netscape copyrighted somebody

else ad we need some assurance that that the entire source base has been looked

over So people this has been going on for quite some time people have been

looking at the source base to sanitize certain and

trying directories over the next

week were going to be signing off on this so we can see that now now
right

files have been off and were

signed on the meeting in little while going to

explain to the engineers how to sign off on the files and on this web page

the count of
go up and by done the
files is
..sign going to the time we get sign

count of signed files is going to go to tJm what you can see here also is that

there are currently 4500 that we dont know the current state of

c4

and there are 9000

in all And that number will go down...theres lot of stuff in here that shouldnt be in here

that needs to get removed

.7

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number 9000-0 will reverse itself presumably

The

we dont really care about it

any more so
Actually once file is signed
right Exactly

urn and once theyre signed

these are the cases
these number of the 9000 signed files

need look at them again

we dont need we shouldnt to go

And by signed..

to the file it sjust..it on the

it take less than second sign
Its very simple operation

to be going
command and the file get signed And so mostly its going
computer you try

and off on it But theres its

work done signing
through the stuff the that theyve already

for the work thats been done

very important to establish accountability
for what
in1h--\
of things that they
contract Theres check list
is the engineer taking actually
process

and the contract...there are some

need to off on that says that theyve done essentially
sign

code sure its for

the code written by Netscape are you sure its Netscape you
rules...is

copyright you read the code OK If anything if you have any fears about this stuff

form did this think its

to do is confess the fears in the of bug....I
what your supposed

in the form of bug you

when you confess
it
the ..how do live with myself
right thing

Michael Toy and th6ybu sign the file OK At the endof thisAime_----
assign the bugjp

the act
of questionable acts well go through questionable
were going to have abug list

with lawyers and make sure that there..

Will this end up being another bug list

NO its the same bug list the bug list is the project
wide to do list OK and so thats the

be done in order for us to get out the door

mechanism for everything that
neec9o

And bug..

Well that became

there was who was the content owner right
Right well originally

was created
system so thats why
this system
was untrackable in that
problem so it

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have the bug list was

list was created so that we could actually
thats why the hostage

created tool to do
that kind of data so
insufficient for tracking

Hardest part
theres certain
decisions what do you do with
The hard...thereS gonna be the sticky

to do is And
hard to determine what the right thing
its to be very
cases that just going

sometimes decisions dont stick

be made and to stick becaseu
those decisions to
getting

have about
something you question
Bug is

is
action It

something that requires

action OK Its anything that requires
really

bug is

youve learned that you need

Often times flaw in the program but quickly
to do list its

as bug then that works best

becSei everything
to manage everything if you manage

hes Mr Bugs And

and thats Michaels strength you see him he just rule 6n bugs

fantastic of
and its think its way
he organizes hi projects is by bugs
thats the way

working

list.
Bug
need to be done and Michael the
IF theres something that
Is the main to do list right

Michael will ask you is there bug on it

first question

Unsigned files

about tool and well

enough well
this
numbers low forget
eventually when
the get
Right

be tomorrow mean
dont know how fast that will be It could
track bugs And
just

and this is place to look

it will be tomorrow but it
may not be so just
hopefully

files
Will people back and start signing
go

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Ive the release

Urn yeah theres some question the tree is closed right now got to talk to

people to make sure that its OK that people sign files while the tree is closed Thats gonna

give them mail saying theyve been bad and weve just got to give people absolution that

thats ok Um but anticipate that thats whats going to happen Well just have to see

They may have to wait until the car pooi is finished before they start signing files

Theres 9000 unsigned bugs dont remember the order in which did these These are

are probably OK this is the one that weve got to worry about becaseu its large number

of stuff we dont know what urn were not quite sure of whats gonna happen with

them

U3
Unsigned files this should to
go

Well unsanitized wasnt out what the state of the

says that tool able to really
files
my figure

file was It doesnt really necessarily mean its unsanitized did it for inflammatory

reasons wanted everybody to freak out

Break

So this is the open bug list as of today and theres some 100 open bugs um 89 open

bugs Um and they all

get signed

/-/ CVC rc-

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