Refaat

in reply to: Refaat

12-11-2012 01:27 AM

Re: Punching Shear Verification

Dear Sir

I got confused , how did the ROBOT calculate the following requirements using (ACI318-
08M & Euro code 2).

 Max. punching force.

 Punching perimeter.
 Admissible punching force by the used code .

My queries are shown on the attached captures (ROBOT results). also, ROBOT files(both
codes) are attached.

As well , I made verification to my hand calculation by (SAFE software) for the same
example.

I found out that ROBOT gives different results for above requirements.

Please , Could you take a look to the attached captures and files for both (ROBOT&SAFE) ,
and verify this topic?

http://www.2shared.com/file/hieICxV2/Captures__Files.html

Note : please , if you want to use captures for explanation . Kindly, send it as attached.

Thanks in advance

Refaat .

Message 3 of 7
 Artur.Kosakowski
in reply to: Refaat
12-11-2012 01:43 AM

Re: Punching Shear Verification

Refaat,

We need some time to investigate this. For EC2 at first glance it seems that Robot checks two
variants of the critical perimeter (full circle and the one shown on the pictures you attached
and selects the most unfavorable one.

Artur Kosakowski
Message 4 of 7

model despite doing so fine in others.

Any idea why??

RSA version: 26.0.4.4461 (x64)

I tried to attach the model, but it is too large, even without results, so there is a yousendit link
here: https://www.yousendit.com/download/WFJXWUhnUzhTRTdOUjhUQw

Thanks

Solved by Artur.Kosakowski. Go to Solution.

Solved by Artur.Kosakowski. Go to Solution.

Message 2 of 14

Artur.Kosakowski

in reply to: josh.southall

07-04-2013 12:33 AM

Re: Punching shear module not working

Punching is not checked in locations where columns 'overlap' with beams (check is done for
the real sizes of these elements).

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help
other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

Artur Kosakowski

punching.png 129 KB
Message 3 of 14

josh.southall

in reply to: Artur.Kosakowski

07-04-2013 06:04 AM
Re: Punching shear module not working

Ok, that's fine. But what about all the columns that don't have beams connected? Screenshot
attached.

Thanks!

punching window grab.png 74 KB

Screen grab of model.png 287 KB
Message 4 of 14

Artur.Kosakowski

in reply to: josh.southall

07-04-2013 06:36 AM

Re: Punching shear module not working

What is the exact selection of the panels please?

Artur Kosakowski

Message 5 of 14

josh.southall
in reply to: Artur.Kosakowski
07-04-2013 07:19 AM

Re: Punching shear module not working

This screenshot was of panel 536 and 283

Message 6 of 14

Artur.Kosakowski

in reply to: josh.southall

07-04-2013 07:42 AM

Re: Punching shear module not working

I can't see any such problem for these panels.

Artur Kosakowski

283_536.png 369 KB
Message 7 of 14

josh.southall

in reply to: Artur.Kosakowski

07-04-2013 07:51 AM

Re: Punching shear module not working

That looks all fine! So what can I do to get the verification points to show up for me !?
Thanks
Message 8 of 14

Artur.Kosakowski

in reply to: josh.southall

07-04-2013 07:54 AM

Re: Punching shear module not working

My steps were:

1. Calculations of the whole model (static analysis)

2. Calculations of required reinforcement for these two panels

3. Selection of both panels and their export to the RC Provided reinforcement module

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help
other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

Artur Kosakowski

Message 9 of 14
 josh.southall

in reply to: Artur.Kosakowski

07-04-2013 08:14 AM

Re: Punching shear In the punching analysis for each verification point table, the following
values are presented.

 Admissible punching force calculated according to the appropriate code requirements.

 Generalized design force defined in the Maximum punching force field for the
additional verification points or read from FEM calculation results for supports.
 Critical circumference calculated on a base of code requirements.
 Reinforcement, which includes the following.
o Reinforcement range from member center in both perpendicular directions L1
and L2.
o Circumference of reinforcement zone (if required).
o Total area of reinforcement.
o Number and diameter of bars calculated on the total area and settings for
punching.
 Safety factor being a ratio of a maximum punching force and admissible punching
force.

Punching analysis results for individual points display in corresponding colors to the
calculation result.

 Points that fulfill the conditions for punching and do not require reinforcement appear
blue.
 Points that fulfill the conditions for punching and require reinforcement appear green.
 Points that do not fulfill the condition for punching despite applying reinforcement
appear red.

The critical circumference is presented graphically on the Slabs - punching layout as a green
line around columns. The range of punching reinforcement is shown graphically in a final
drawing of a slab (formwork).

The dialog may include additional options depending on the selected code of RC structure
design.

ACI Code
When selected, the Type option is also available. Each support determines its position either
within slab, on slab edge or in slab corner. The support type is used during calculation of the
admissible punching force [ACI 318-99 11.12.2.2].

EC2 Code

When selected, the b option is also available. For each support, the parameter determines the
support position either within slab, on slab edge or in slab corner. A value of this parameter is
used during calculation of the punching force [ENV 1992-1-1 EC2 4.3.4.3].

Calculations due to punching - description

Products and versions covered

By:

Help

Apr 10 2018In-Product View

SHARE
ADD TO COLLECTION

Calculation of Critical Area And Critical Circumference

The shape of the critical area depends on the support geometry or support head, inclination
angle of the surface subjected to shearing, as well as the position with respect to slab edges
and corners. Shape and size of the critical area are stricly determined in the code, but for
every code calculations consist in determining the area subjected to action of a punching
force. In calculation of this, zone edges of slab and of openings are considered. The table
displays the length of the u critical circumference. Note that the effect of openings on the
length of the critical circumference is considered in the program.

A=u*d

where:

A - Critical area

u - Length of the critical circumference

d - Usable height of the slab section.

Calculation of Limit Punching Forces or Limit Stresses

This stage of calculations includes determining maximal values of puching force allowed by
the code or maximal stresses that can be carried by a concrete section. The limit (maximal)
force is a product of the critical area and stresses allowed by the code.
Qadm = τ * A

where:

Qadm - Admissible punching force

τ - Admissible stress

A - Critical area.

Calculation of Punching Forces or Stresses Resulting from External Impact

Each of the codes determines the manner how a force or stress caused by external impact
should be received on the punching area. In the simplest case, calculations involve
multiplication of a punching force by an appropriate factor, whereas in the most complicated
ones, calculations of stresses considering acting moments are required. The table displays a
value of the Q calculation designing force, obtained from the formula.

Q=τ*A

τ=V/A

τ = V * b / u (for EC2 code)

(for ACI code)

where:

Q - Calculation designing force

τ - Stress on the critical area

V - Maximum punching force

β - The parameter determines position of the critical circumference with respect to the slab
edge (for EC2)

Mx, My, V - Bending moments and the force at the gravity center of the critical area

Jx, Jy - Inertia moments of the critical area with respect to axes passing through its gravity
center

γ x , γ y, c x , c y - Parameters depending on the geometry of the critical area [ACI 318

11.12.2.2].

Check of the Load Capacity Condition

This consists in comparing stresses or forces caused by external impact with limit values.
There are three states possible.

 If calculated stresses are smaller than admissible for a concrete section, reinforcement
is not required
 If stresses are greater than admissible for a concrete section and simultaneously
smaller than admissible, reinforcement is required
 If stresses are greater than admissible stresses, then the slab section is too small.

When reinforcement is not required or when a slab section is too small, results are presented
in a form of the maximal punching force (for calculations based on stresses, the force is
calculated from stresses multiplied by the punching area) and the ratio of admissible force to
equivalent acting force. If reinforcement is required, then calculations of the reinforcement
needed are carried out by the program.

Calculation of Required Reinforcement

If stresses are greater than those admissible for a concrete section and simultaneously smaller
than those admissible, then calculated punching reinforcement is necessary. Calculations are
carried out according to the code guidelines concerning bar reinforcement. Required
reinforcement area and range of a zone within which reinforcement is required are shown in
the table on the Punching tab. Also available are punching force (for calculations based on
stresses, the force is calculated from stresses multiplied by the punching area) and ratio of the
load capacity with reinforcement considered to the equivalent acting force. The range of
reinforcement zone is additionally presented in drawings. The table shows the following
parameters.

L1, L2 - Reinforcement range from the member center in both perpendicular directions.

u - Length of reinforcement zone circumference according to code recommendations.

A - Total reinforcement area that should be distributed evenly around the column within the
reinforcement zone determined by the lengths L1 and L2.

n x ϕ - Number and diameter of bars calculated on the basis of the total area and settings in
the options for punching.

Note: For British BS code, several reinforcement zones may be defined depending on the
requirements (reinforcement zones may overlap. Only that part of calculated bars is
distributed in successive zones, which remains after subtracting the bars belonging to the
previous zone.
Parent topic: Slabs - punching

How to obtain shear forces acting at the bottom of a wall in Robot

Structural Analysis
Products and versions covered
By:

Support

Nov 16 2016
SHARE
ADD TO COLLECTION

Issue:
You’d like to obtain shear forces acting at the bottom of a wall.

Solution:
Use the reduced forces:

 Go to the menu “Results” / “Advanced” / “Reduced results for panels”.

 Right click in the table and select “Table column”.
 Go to the tab “Cuts”.
 Check only the check box for the bottom horizontal cut.
 Click OK.
 The shear force you’re looking for is located in the column “TRy”.

Rc slab Punching verification (by maps and rc slab provided reinforcement )

5 REPLIES
SOLVED

 Back to Topic Listing

 Previous
 Next

Message 1 of 6

mustafa-hesenow
952 Views, 5 Replies
01-03-2013 06:23 AM

Rc slab Punching verification (by maps and rc slab provided reinforcement )

Dear sir

Is the punhing shear verfication by checking the principal shear strees in maps gives the
same results of verfication punching by rc slab provided reinforcement .
regards

Eng Mustafa Hesenow

Solved by Artur.Kosakowski. Go to Solution.

Message 2 of 6

Artur.Kosakowski

in reply to: mustafa-hesenow

01-03-2013 11:22 PM

Re: Rc slab Punching verification (by maps and rc slab provided reinforcement )

These results are different mainly because the design code tells you how to determine the
critical perimeter whereas the stress is displayed in a selected position within a slab.

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help
other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

Artur Kosakowski

Message 3 of 6

mustafa-hesenow

in reply to: Artur.Kosakowski

01-06-2013 05:02 AM
Re: Rc slab Punching verification (by maps and rc slab provided reinforcement )

Dear sir

What i was mean by my Question is

if we take the reading of shear stresses after check the reduced forces above columns support
at the same distance from the face of the column permitted in the code is this value from the
maps will be the same or closed to the value calculated in rc slab provided reinforcement in
the punching check .

What i know : in the calculation of shear stresses in the map

the formula is ;

T= Q*S/B*I which is mean the the unbalanced moment which is going to the columns is
not considered .

But for the calculation of shear stresses in rc slab provided reinforcement whis is according
to the used code is ;

T = Q/b*d + Mux*y/Jx +Muy * x/Jy

which is mean the unbalanced moment taken in consideration Of the shear stress as per code
parametes but didnt taken in consideration in the map result .

kindly confirm if this understanding is correct .

Eng Mustafa Hesenow

Message 4 of 6
 Artur.Kosakowski

in reply to: mustafa-hesenow

01-07-2013 12:46 AM

Re: Rc slab Punching verification (by maps and rc slab provided reinforcement )

The valued on the map are calculated based on the shear force only with no influence of
bending.

Artur Kosakowski

Message 5 of 6

MALEKANAM

in reply to: Artur.Kosakowski

03-07-2017 08:02 AM

Re: Rc slab Punching verification (by maps and rc slab provided reinforcement )

Why Mr Artur ?

Message 6 of 6
 Artur.Kosakowski

in reply to: MALEKANAM

03-07-2017 08:06 AM

Re: Rc slab Punching verification (by maps and rc slab provided reinforcement )

Because these maps are intended for shear rather than punching and are displayed on the
entire slab rather than over the supports only not mentioning the fact that given design code
may have different rules for calculations of actual punching force which is addressed in the
RC Slab Required reinforcement module.

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help
other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

Robot - RC - how to add reinforcement bar with new diameter to the

list of available rebars?
Products and versions covered

By:

Support

Mar 22 2017
SHARE
ADD TO COLLECTION

Issue:
How to modify reinforcement bar list (add new diameters or steel parameters) to be used in
the provided reinforcement modules?
Solution:
1. Open Reinforcement bars tab of Job Preferences
2. Press the "+" button to add the database you want to edit if not shown on the list
3. Select the database from the displayed list and press the Open button
4. Add or modify content of the displayed table

Minimum reinforcement on slabs

1 REPLY
SOLVED

 Back to Topic Listing

 Previous
 Next

Message 1 of 2
 nvgeirinhas
756 Views, 1 Replies
12-09-2012 11:21 AM

Minimum reinforcement on slabs

Hello,

I have discovered that when I change the diameter of reinforcement bars on slabs, the area of
the minimum reinforcement change.
Is this correct? Because I am using the EC2 code, and the expression of the minimun
reinforcement doesn't change with the bar diameter. I think this doesn't make sense

Best regards

Nuno Geirinhas

Solved by Artur.Kosakowski. Go to Solution.

armadura minima1.PNG 268 KB

armadura minima2.PNG 280 KB
Message 2 of 2

Artur.Kosakowski

in reply to: nvgeirinhas

12-10-2012 12:21 AM

Re: Minimum reinforcement on slabs

As far as I remember the code also defines the maximal spacing among rebars. This si what
changes the area of the minimal reinforcement too.

If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help
other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.
Punching
9 REPLIES
SOLVED

 Back to Topic Listing

 Previous
 Next

Message 1 of 10

Nissar59
357 Views, 9 Replies
09-25-2017 12:39 AM

Punching
Hi!

How we design punching shear reinforcement edge of slab

Solved by MarekZiecina1253. Go to Solution.

Solved by Artur.Kosakowski. Go to Solution.

Solved by Nissar59. Go to Solution.

Solved by mustafahesenow. Go to Solution.

Solved by MarekZiecina1253. Go to Solution.

Message 2 of 10

mustafahesenow

in reply to: Nissar59

09-25-2017 01:38 AM

Re: Punching

Hi @Nissar59

Its normal as the other one by provided reinforcement module (punching ) or by checking of
shear stress map manually

Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
LinkedIn

Message 3 of 10
 MarekZiecina1253

in reply to: mustafahesenow

09-27-2017 02:40 AM

Re: Punching

How checking of shear stress map manually?

Message 4 of 10

Nissar59

in reply to: MarekZiecina1253

09-28-2017 06:45 AM

Robot Structural Analysis 2018 Analysis & Design of punching shear reinforcement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjRnZ7XQbXM

Message 5 of 10
 MarekZiecina1253

in reply to: Nissar59

09-28-2017 08:20 AM

Re: Robot Structural Analysis 2018 Analysis & Design of punching shear reinf

Thx, but I was thinking about special cases

Screen Shot 09-28-17 at 04.50 PM 1.png 1024 KB
Message 6 of 10
 saclovitzky

in reply to: MarekZiecina1253

09-29-2017 07:14 AM

Re: Robot Structural Analysis 2018 Analysis & Design of punching shear reinf

Take the maximum values for punching shear in ROBOT and used punching shear
spreadsheet from "The concrete center", in your screenshot you have two cases, punching
shear design for "edge" and "reen

Detailed Maps vs Complex W&A Maps

Hi,

I have two different moment values I can work with for concrete design. Detailed Mxx Myy
Mxy, or Complex top/bottom x/y moments.

As you can see in my attached model - I have heavier values when I choose the W&A option
vs the Detailed Mxx and Myy. Please advise what would be best used to approximate the
values for concrete moments? And if the material was steel?
Thanks!

Shanta.

Solved by Artur.Kosakowski. Go to Solution.

Solved by Artur.Kosakowski. Go to Solution.

Solved by Artur.Kosakowski. Go to Solution.

 Tags:
 complex
 detailed
 maps

Bin2407_2bins_reduced.rtd 4416 KB
Complex_map.JPG 143 KB
Detailed_map.JPG 157 KB
Message 2 of 6

sminglana
in reply to: sminglana
05-13-2016 03:55 PM

Re: Detailed Maps vs Complex W&A Maps

Also, another question I forgot to ask, would it be advisable to add a rigid link from my 18"
slab to the 12" wall? I notice high concentrations of moments where there's a large variation
in thickness at the interfaces. Same model as the first post.

Thanks.

 Tags:
 rigid link

Interface.JPG 51 KB
RigidConnection.JPG 11 KB
Message 3 of 6
 Artur.Kosakowski
in reply to: sminglana
05-16-2016 01:11 AM

Re: Detailed Maps vs Complex W&A Maps

Please advise what would be best used to approximate the values for concrete moments?

The W and A moments include the influence of Mxy moments and they should be used for
bidirectional slabs.

And if the material was steel?

Then IMHO you should check the values of von Mises stresses instead.
If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help
other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

Artur Kosakowski
Message 4 of 6

Artur.Kosakowski
in reply to: sminglana
05-16-2016 01:23 AM

Re: Detailed Maps vs Complex W&A Maps

You need to be careful with selected direction (should be the same for all the panels you
display results for) and settings for smoothing.
If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help
other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.

Artur Kosakowski
Message 5 of 6

sminglana
in reply to: Artur.Kosakowski
05-16-2016 09:23 AM

Re: Detailed Maps vs Complex W&A Maps

Thanks Artur. I wasn't too sure if I were to keep all panel directions the same. Reason for that
is - I have radial bars and hoop bars being used in the thickened edges - whick transitions to
grid patterns for the rebar over the inside panels and roof slab for easier installation.

Would the moment values based on same panel direction still be okay regardless of the rebar
layout? Thanks.

Message 6 of 6

Artur.Kosakowski
in reply to: sminglana
05-16-2016 11:40 PM

Re: Detailed Maps vs Complex W&A Maps

My point is that looking at the results you should project them on the same directions when
you look at the edge of the two panels so that you compare the same kind of values. The
projection of the results is (can be set and changed at any time without the need of re-
calculation of a model) indepedent(ly) of the directions of the local X axes of panels (which
you may want to set in the way it is easier for you ta apply loads) and their directions of the
main reinforcement (which follows your intended rebar distribution).
If you find your post answered press the Accept as Solution button please. This will help
other users to find solutions much faster. Thank you.
How to interpret moment on panel map result??
6 REPLIES
SOLVED

 Back to Topic Listing

 Previous
 Next

Highlighted
Message 1 of 7

lincannotbe
1233 Views, 6 Replies
08-20-2014 08:25 AM

How to interpret moment on panel map result??

Hi!

Please help me interpreting the moment results on the panel (slab).

I've attached two images: one with hand calculation of getting the maximum bending moment
on the slab (DDM) and one with my robot model.

I simply don't know how to interpret the map or cut result of slab.

I've done lot of steel design using robot, but not much on panel design. However, I believe
my model is correct.

I am currently trying to prove my office that robot can be used to design slab, but I failed to
convince them because I didn't know how to interpret the result.
I believe the maximum bending moment must be at least similar to the one by hand
calculation.

trant" corners.

Message 7 of 10

MarekZiecina1253

in reply to: saclovitzky

09-29-2017 08:01 AM

Re: Robot Structural Analysis 2018 Analysis & Design of punching shear reinf

I know, but I would like to calculate in RSA

Message 8 of 10

me1205377

in reply to: MarekZiecina1253

09-30-2017 12:55 PM

Re: Robot Structural Analysis 2018 Analysis & Design of punching shear reinf
I got confused , how did the ROBOT calculate the following requirements using ACI318-
08M

 Punching perimeter.

Please check the attached files.

Artur Kosakowski
4751_001.pdf 9 KB
4750_001.pdf 19 KB
Message 5 of 7

Refaat
in reply to: Artur.Kosakowski
12-12-2012 03:41 AM
61. It is not clear where are presented seismic forces from ESP casing to ESP supporting
structure? Vertical reactions represent only weight of the structure at top of the columns.
Additional vertical reactions shall be calculated due to moments that will develop from
seismic action on ESP casing. Additional horizontal forces shall be calculated due to seismic
actions to ESP casing and applied to appropriate supports.

Page 62. As ESP supporting structure supports are close to each other, it is necessary to
take into consideration soil deformation on larger area, due to interference of compression
stress in soil between all of the column foundation. Soil deformation shall be also
considered in the 3d model, as foundation settlements even if they have similar stress will
not be the same.

Page 62. Due to soil characteristic consolidation settlement have to be considered.