Professional Documents
Culture Documents
S: Your father was head of the entire Nyingma school?
SDR: That's right.
S: And now His Holiness Khyentse Rinpoche is the head of the
Nyingmapa.
SDR: Officially speaking, the appointment has to come from His
Holiness the Dalai Lama. As we know, in our lineage, there are
many heads of lineages. But I think to this point the Dalai Lama
hasn't yet appointed anybody to take over the head of the
Nyingma lineage. It's very important that Dudjom Rinpoche's
bodily remains are brought back first, and we can complete that
whole cycle.
S: You are your father's dharma heir?
SDR: Yes.
S: Meaning that you hold the Tersar lineage.
SDR: Yes.
S: Did he give transmission of the other lineages that he held to
other people?
SDR: Whoever wanted whatever teachings...he was like a vast
treasure house that way. So that's why he became one of the
foremost lineage holders during this century. There is no lama
that he has not taught, there is no lama that he has not given to.
So in fact, according to certain of the inner prophecies, Rinpoche
was holding the key of the four schools, and being, really, the
aspect of accomplishment.
S: Was His Holiness Khyentse Rinpoche a student of your
father?
SDR: Yes, Khyentse Rinpoche received a lot of teachings from
my father. Yes, he was a student of my father.
A lot depends on the activity, on having a popular way of
reaching out, of being able to penetrate that title. People are very
free these days in calling someone a lama or a rinpoche or
anything for that matter.
S: More from Western students?
SDR: It's coming more from this side (laughing) than from
anywhere else.
Everything will ultimately go back to His Holiness the Dalai Lama,
because he is the spiritual and temporal ruler of Tibet. Our
aspiration and focus is totally towards the Dalai Lama, because
he is the symbol of unity. We have many centuries of skillful
means of his manifestation. There is no doubt for anybody, for
any lama or any being. He is the final authority.
S: May we ask a bit about your plans?
SDR: At this moment, I don't have many plans, frankly. My most
important task is to take my father's remains back to Kathmandu,
so that thousands and thousands of disciples coming from Tibet,
India, and all over, will be able to come and participate in the
offering pujas that he will do. And my main emphasis at this time
is just to fulfill that last cycle of paying homage to His Holiness
Dudjom Rinpoche. When this is brought about, all the disciples
will be happy, and can at least participate in the accumulation of
merit. We can be together to do all these practices and so forth.
That's my main focus. Dudjom International Foundation (now
transformed into Dudjom Shenphen Foundation) is a foundation I
just recently started connected to my father's work. My main
work is to translate his bodhisattva activity into a very physical
aspect. Not that he hasn't done that - he has started schools, he
has started dharma centers. But this is a continuation of that in
the field of charity.
I hope that over a longer period this will become a very important
foundation, bring Rinpoche's aspiration in the field of charity,
and making it more tangible - in the sense that it can reach out to
every kind of person, not just the dharma practitioners.
Offshoots of dharma: translating into education, training in the
Vajrayana path, the field of medicine and psychotherapy. In my
father's terma there are a lot of teachings dealing with that.
I have many other priorities that are set in my mind that I need to
go more deeply into. I want to go more deeply into my own
religion. I want to bring the work of the lineage to a more open
public so that they can realize the beauty of the depth of the
teachings.
I'm in a position where I have to consolidate the centers, rather
than put more centers out. I think, fortunately, that there is no
gap at this moment in the way the centers are. There is no
political gap, or whatever you want to call it. It just came directly
from His Holiness that I'm to hold the lineage, and everyone has
accepted it, and we're all working together, so I think we have a
very harmonious situation now. I'm not thinking of really
expanding at this moment, at all. I'd rather consolidate those old
students who have made some connection to His Holiness, and
some new students who want to come in. But I want to keep that
to a minimum. I want to place emphasis more on my own internal
training that I have to go through.
S: More retreats?
SDR: Yes, I'm looking forward to that. More retreats, and more
consolidating all the older students of His Holiness, getting them
together, setting up schools, setting up education that can train
people in the Vajrayana path. Many things we can't know now will
arise. But as far as setting up the priorities, it's just to finish the
whole thing in Kathmandu, so that's stabilized completely.
S: Will you be doing your retreats in France, or Kathmandu, or
where?
SDR: It really depends. If I can put lamas who are responsible in
the various centers, and lamas who can communicate the
teachings, or lamas who can take the administration, and really
bring it about, that will give me time to practice. Definitely I will
practice in the holy areas, if possible, where the great sages have
practiced before, bringing that energy bringing that blessing of
the special quality. But if not, then I won't be stagnated by having
to think that's the only way I could...I could be anywhere. I could
even be out here.
S: In the barbarian lands of California?
SDR: Anywhere. Most important is, do I have the right
instructions, do I have the right guidance? That's important. If I
have that, place wouldn't matter.
S: Rinpoche, do you have a date in mind for bringing your
father's remains to Nepal?
SDR: Yes, more or less. It's not an exact, specific date, I would
think it will be in the middle of Janurary (1989). That would be the
right thing to do. The date hasn't been fixed yet, but according to
the French government, we have to pick an exact date, because
when we take His Holiness's body, each territory we cross, we
have to get permission.
S: You're taking his remains over land?
SDR: Well, from Dordogne to Paris, each division you cross, the
mayor must okay it. From Paris we'll definetly fly. When I go
back, then an exact date will be finalized. We have to have at
least two months for the government to do all their paperwork.
S: In reading the flyer of which teachings you are giving during
your visit here, it seemed that you were giving what looked like
rather advanced Vajrayana teachings. We've been exposed to two
different styles with regard to that. Our teacher Trungpa
Rinpoche was very strict that way: one had to do this practice
first, then the next, and os on. On the other hand, Kalu Rinpoche
had a feeling to do more public events. What is your feeling
about giving Vajrayana teachings to Westerners. Which style
would you say you are more inclined toward?
SDR: (Laughs.) Actually, it depends on the mind of the teacher
really. What is the skillful means? It doesn't mean one way is
right and one way is wrong. According to the different mental
make-ups, the approaches are different. Normally in the
Vajrayana training, you have to go thoroughly. It's a very
systematized approach. There is no way one can be very lenient
about it. You have to go though the right process of trainig.
Though one can be more formative in making a structure, while
some lamas don't want so much structure as going into the
opening of the teachings first, and then later, bring them into a
structured form. You can start from a structured form, or you can
open up, and then, after giving a taste of the teachings, then
structure.
Both approaches, what can you say? There is no fault in either
approach. Now obviously, if you are going to get too stuck in the
formative stage of the trainingt, then sometimes, practitioners
can be disillusioned with a very structured way, and not see the
absolute inner opening of the Vajrayana, which is very important.
It's important to have at least a glimpse and a taste of these
teachings. The approach can be from East or West, doesn't
matter.
The important thing is that the students are maintaining the
samaya, that the students are understanding, and removing their
basic poisons. It's not so much a technicality of what is, but the
profoundness of wisdom and compassion of Vajrayana teaching.
As far as I've seen, I've seen many teachers teach very different
ways. There is not one set way of going about it. Some teachers
go straightaway into Dzogchen, and then later go into lower yana
perspective and training. Some teachers start from the lower
yana progressive training and go up. It just depends on what the
teacher envisions to be the best.
Certainly at this moment it seems that dharma is becoming a
sellable item. The danger may be there, when the false teachers
arise. One can be very vulnerable and opened up, and exposed,
and all of a sudden somebody comes and taps that energy, and
misuses it. That's where I see the danger. As long as the teachers
are genuine, I don't see anything wrong with the approach.
Where you have to be careful is with all the self-made teachers
that are arising now.
S: Have you encountered much of that?
SDR: Well, coming out to the West, I've seen many. I encountered
ordinary people who are now having titles of "rinpoche", or
l"lama". Certainly"lama" is a selling item, at this time.
S: Do you mean other Tibetans have been taking these titles?
SDR: Yes. It's like an ordinary practitioner who comes here
seeking to make fortune. They have some close students who
refer to them as "rinpoche". From the organization of the spiritual
body, it's very facile. There is nobody to say "That's not it." There
is no kind of order coming, which recognizes or doesn't
recognize. There is no board. But that's a problem in any religion,
so it's not specifically us.
S: Are there Nyingma ngondro practices; is the Nyingma
approach to Vajrayana the same as the Kagyu?
SDR: Exactly the same. Exactly. There is no difference. Between
the Kagyu, Nyingma, basically all the teachings of Buddha in the
Vajrayana approach, all would be the same. You go through the
same stages of ngondro: starting by refuge, bodhicitta,
accumulation of merit, purification, Dorje Sempa, coming to the
Guru Yoga practice. Those trainings are the same. In some
practices, the wrathful practices, there are some wrathful
ngondros. Then there may be slight variations, but generally the
approach will be the same.
Usually though, the visualizations will be the same; Dorje Chang,
or Guru Rinpoche in the center with the refuge tree, left
bodhisattvas, right Buddhas, in front dharma protectors, in the
back, sound of the holy syllables. It will be exactly the same. In
some cases, certain protectors and their aspects have been more
emphasized. When we do the general practice, appropriating all
the protectors, it will be exactly the same. All the protectors are
there, but some are connected to a particular terma to be
protected, and then they will be more involved.
S: Well, Your Eminence, I've run out of questions. If there is
anything you would like to say to Western students of
Buddhism...especially the readers of the Vajradhatu Sun.
SDR: Well, my message is just, foremost, to take the Vajrayana
path as a gem. Definetly work towards harmonizing inner and
outer - balancing their nature. Try to reach a part of the practice
where they have united. The essence of all teachings comes to
understanding emptiness, clarity, and compassion. I would
simply say to practice sincerely and not just be caught by the
outer appearance of dharma. Really penetrate the inner essence.
With regard to Trungpa Rinpoche, I met him in Boulder. I met him
in New York before that. I think you have had a very qualified and
a very skillful teacher. By practicing in harmony, staying together,
one can create the situation for him to come back, meet with you
again and continue the teachings. Once you have aspiration, and
dedicate yourself to the practice, I think that will unfold.
In Europe, we have people doing practically the same practices.
Betweek Kagyu and Nyingma, it's practically the same. Unlike in
the past, when some distance was kept, I think it's time to bridge
that distance, and have more open mind, more honestly look into
what are the possibilities of every school. I feel that now we can
not work in a limited way at all. We are in a stage now where we
have to respect every form of practice in the teaching of Buddha.
I think you are setting an example here in the West which will be
very crucial in the East too. My hope is that the West, and the
kind of community that is happening will speak loudly to the
East. Really that sense of unity in the East is rare - anyway that's
my hope.
All the heads of lineage of the Kagyu lineages are all qualified
teachers. There is no question, no doubt of their ability at all -
transmission point of view - I think the Kagyu lineage is very
fortunate to have it. If you follow together, and don't try to make a
distinction between this and that, and try to cause confusion
within that, then I think you have a very stable dharma growing.
What Trungpa Rinpoche has planted is like the seeds, and what
will come out of it will be shoots, and what the fruit will be will be
your realization, bring more clarity, bring not only our minds into
balance, but our exterior environment into balance, respecting
every form of life. That respect, and that compassion I think is
the key to Buddha's teaching.
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