Professional Documents
Culture Documents
3 upon his oath to testify the truth, the whole truth and
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. SHARPE:
12 A Iain7O.
19 Berkeley.
493
1 Q Dr. Rushdoony, would you tell the court the number
3 education?
11 education other than the books that you have talked about,
13 journals?
14 A Yes, I have.
16 that would deal with education and its history and the forms
17 of education?
494
1 Q Focusing on education in the United States during
4 time?
g concentrated.
15 but for the most part it was home schooling. This continued
25 could you tell the court how the various forms of education
495
1 reflected itself in the. United States?
2 A 701900?
3 Q Up to 1900.
4 A Yes.
19 series, which existed in those days, you will find that the
24 taught curriculum.
496
1 entered into the field of education with a centralized
12 1930’s?
16 Q Of the 1800’s?
22 schools.
24 the 1800’s?
497
I common place. In some of the eastern cities among the
20 between 1900 and 1925, would you tell the court what forms
22 sector?
498
1 Adventist. A few. others of German reform background. The
12 to fifteen.
13 In the one summer at an academy, from the
20 to 1925 area?
21 A Very definitely, especially in the western states
22 because of the roads situation.
23 Q Would that have included Texas?
24 A Very definitely. The highways in Texas in those
25 days did not reach into the isolated ranch country. So whether
499
1 it was Texas or Nevada or Colorado or Oregon or California,
17 school?
18 A Definitely not.
500
1 must remember it was a very concentrated kind of schooling.
birch rod to make sure the child did not waste the teacher’s
6 time.
g A Yes.
C) 13 that context?
20 correct?
501
1 A A school is instruction in order to facilitate
3 into maturity.
14 how much you are ready to work. This is the ancient form
15 of education.
502
1 civics department.
3 arithmetic?
4 A Yes.
10
11
12 CROSS EXAMINATION
13 BY MR • KEVIN 0 ‘HJ5NLON:
21 what you know about the history in Texas. Did you know, for
503
1 Q And did you know that those school districts were
8 is very significant.
14 the nearest paved road was thirty miles away, and as late
as about 1950 and ‘51 not even the mail got through from
21 A I have not.
504
1 A Yes. Well, no. I made that statement with regard
3 Q Okay.
5 rider—teachers.
21 meant nothing.
505
i about Texas that indicates to you that they were not
14 A I think so.
506
1 Q Did you know that the State of Texas was an
7 of public schools?
507
1 departments.
20 those days?
22 classical emphasis.
24 add that to the list including the three R’s and civics?
508
1 realize that it was only with the depression that we had in
10 is that right?
20 Right?
509
1 can no longer call the public schools “schools”?
9 and the other would be the instructor or the teacher has got
12 A Yes
19 A Yes
21 wouldn’t you?
25 A Yes.
510
1 Q And I suppose that who gets to look at it is a
6 taking the initiative with home schooling that you have the
7 best instruction
9 admit, would you not, that there are certain cases where
11 knowledge base may not know what’s best for their child?
511
religious motivation which governs the family then there is
3 state does is going to supply it. All the state can supply
o 13 A It is an implication, yes.
19 orientation.
512
THE COURT: Let me ask you this,
7 A Yes.
11 in that community?
o 13 system. I
15 though?
20 had bound feet and could barely walk. The motivation was
513
1 a daughter. A son had graduate degrees from Berkeley and
2 the daughter had a graduate degree and was working for the
() 13 wherever they are and are very quickly becoming rich because
16 in a society.
o 24
25
worship, Buddhism, Christianity
514
1 A Yes.
8 that motivation.
12 there is no motivation?
16 who are not properly motivated and there is nothing they can
515
1 would be a rarity because, first, there is the expense of
02 home schooling when you can send your child freely to the
5 motivation.
8 sit some other kids, and you call it a home school so you
19 quite often.
o : anything?
516
1 Q That if the child is at home and doesn’t have
16 all right.
19 that right?
20 A True, but
Q 24 them decide?
517
1 community pressures. In other words, if you live in a
18 would be difficult.
518
1 that you pick a jury of six citizens and you submit to them
4 to describe what they are doing, how they are going about
12 little further.
519
I was there as a missionary among the American Indians and
o to some of the mining communities and the isolated ranchers
3 in the area.
5 that you are discussing and other sorts, the first recourse
o 13 murder.
o 24
25
determinations is constitutional unfair. Now, in doing so
520
1 recognize that Judge Murray cannot order the community to
5 home schools.
521
1 (Mr. O’Hanlon:)
2 0 The issueishow-—Ifwehavetocometoa
8 determination.
12 schools.
14 both sides. You are using the word to define a word, aren’t
17 A Yes.
19 point?
21 your concern. I’m confused here because you said it was the
23 Q Uh-huh.
522
1 a determination as to whether a particular
3 A Yes a
5 A Yes.
22 again.
523
i other instances the legislature.
2 (Mr. O’Hanlon:)
5 has the power or the judicial system has the mechanics and
11 coercion.
15 determinatiOns of fact?
524
1 learning. This is the problem of our time.
9 United States.
17 did not have compulsory school laws but this did not alter
23 a specific definition?
24 A I think so basically, yes.
25 MR. O’HANLON: Thank you, sir. Pass the
525
1 witness.
02
3
4 CROSS EYftMINAflON
ii that the father is the instructor, the parents are; and the
18 education.
22 that existed at that time on the one hand and the home
526
1 motivation, but there has been a difference since World War II
4 parents.
12 recall them vividly, those days, was the fact that these
13 children who had been home schooled under the Calvert system
527
1 Q The Texas ranchers who were faced with rain storms
3 you are saying now that what they were recalling is Biblical
5 roads?
18 familiar with the fact that the English language will take
21 those years.
23 things?
528
1 things?
16 and that those time limits are different, would you assume
20 obviously and for the child then it would not mean a school.
529
i could happen?
C 2 A There are a great many things that are possible,
6 testified that you would have a school even if, you would
18 Q I thought
19 A Oh, yes.
25 for learning.
530
1 Q And without a curriculum and without a teacher
9 concerned, but this does not invalidate the fact that they
10 are schools.
531
1 people, would you have any objection to that concept?
7 are.
15 A Yes.
17
18
532
instances, for example, of a ranching family where the
was the Johnson School. It was still a home school but they
9 A Or private school.
11 A Yes.
() 13 instruction?
20 of events that the children from that family were the ones
533
1 A What was that question?
5 A Yes.
9 a curriculum?
14 time. Right?
15 A Yes.
16 Q All right.
21 A Yes.
534
1 school work together and maybe helped each other with it,
2 and they didn’t go out and run and play with other children
3 in the neighborhood?
9 formal.
15 A Usually.
18 A Yes.
21 do the teaching.
22 A Yes.
535
I A Yes.
4 A Yes.
7 worked only with each other. They didn’t run outside and
io instructional time?
16 would regularly tell his tutor, and that was the way it had
19 she knew you well enough to clobber you if you got out of
20 line.
25 who are often indulgent and very often the will of the child.
536
1 It is not a structured situation where he has the position
4 that.
18 school, and then you talked about parochial schools and you
537
I the eastern schools.
9 society.
538
1 from different families?
3 Christian schools.
8 A Yes.
11 like they are sort of today where you group several children
C) 13 subject?
14 A Yes.
18 described as a tutor?
19 A Yes.
539
1 A The church or the body would set the standards, yes.
4 A Yes.
8 that correct?
16 A Yes.
25 merely monitors.
540
1 Q Uh-huh.
20 is doing basically?
21 A Yes.
541
1 those people until they buy another curriculum, then in
20 Right?
542
1 burnout”?
4 literature.
19 feels the child will get the level of learning she wants
22 asked you. If you will assume with me, please, that a child
543
i evaluated and a grade sent back, then is that a school?
4 and what I’m telling you is that the mother is working with
16 (Ms. Horton:)
21 a part of my experience.
544
1 is not then important, and the evidence as I have seen it
4 performance.
6 child is learning?
9 for a school?
24 A “Teaching”?
Q 25 Yes.
Q
545
1 A “Teaching” is the attempt to communicate knowledge
6 problems over the years. It has also been used when, for
10 tutoring.
3 13 A Yes.
546
1 Q Okay. And, so, in home instruction cases you
6 A Yes.
20 seen.
547
a dozen scholars. These range from philosophy to economics.
7 do their work.
10
11 CROSS EXAMINATION
o 24
25
with examinations, with very rigid and strict rules and
548
1 Q Thank you. As far as observing, actual observance
6 one family
12 A That’s it.
24 A Yes.
549
1 you personally believe that finding is valid?
11 A Yes.
16 A Yes.
22 the amount of money spent nor the standards set by the state,
24 performance.
550
1 through the history beginning in colonial times, and the
20
23 and if you can give me the citation I would like for you
24 to provide it to me.
551
i the specific citation. These will be in memoirs, auto-
4 at this time?
5 A No.
10 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
ii BY MR. SHARPE:
19 the witness?
21 (Mr. Sharpe:)
552
1 which is the third page of Plaintiffs’ Exhibit 18, I would
02 like for you to read into the record the second item under
5 education.
17 experience and your research and the years you have spent
553
I his qualifications to the offer of whether
2 he agrees or disagrees.
12 is asking him.
15 (Mr. Sharpe:)
21 A No.
25 (Mr. Sharpe:)
554
1 Q I would like for you to read into the record the
5 read that?
8 school.” Unquote.
11 courses?
17 A No.
22 ranchers could not get in, the county office supplied the
555
1 limitations couldn’t come to the campus, would you consider
5 A Yes.
8 child, tell the court whether or not you think that would
17 A lam.
is are?
556
1 a thief. As a result, going back foreign to pre-christian
2 eras, Israel was the only nation in the world with literacy
16 work.
18 the world in the high rate of literacy long before there was
25 prevailed.
557
1 Now, this literacy combined with the Puritan
9 come since World War II, when we’ve had some public
16 one.
558
1 MR. O’HANLON: I have some questions,
2 Your Honor.
5 RECROSS EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. O’HANLON:
11 does it?
18 Q Okay.
559
1 A Well, it means in some communions that you are
8 priest.
rn they?
11 A Unfortunately, no.
14 A The what?
16 A Yes.
20 that right?
560
study that was ever conducted in terms of scope and magnitude,
wasn’t it?
3 A Yes.
7 A Yes.
10 mentioned.
11 A Uh-huh.
16 the details.
561
1 A Except that the Harvard report called attention
8 education?
C) 13 of law than say the ghetto parent, but there is still the
21 educational setting.
562
1 Q That’s not what I’m saying, Will you listen to
2 my question?
9 A Uh-huh.
19 more.
25 motivation?
563
1 A Except that in a stabled family there is
4 A Yes.
11. in school.
Q 24 yes.
564
1 they come in and they’ve got a stable home situation, they’re
5 that has been reached more than once, yes, and I would agree.
15 Q Okay.
565
1 Q Okay. But you don’t see any problem with tests
3 school children?
6 which only one of the questions, and this was one of the
12 and a child who would differ from them or the school would
14 standardized testing.
15 Q Okay.
566
1 from the Kingsburg High School, said, “Let him in; their
() 13 and he says that one of the biggest problems they have with
17 nonessentials.
22 A Yes. And
23 0 okay.
567
1 Q Or educational specialists that could be adopted.
3 isn’ t it?
8 A Uh-huh.
568
1 A I would say it would depend on the context. In
11 see whether you agree with it. “If you decide to let them
22 people.”
569
1 Q In Texas.
5 door.”
6 A That’s right.
8 to court.”
16 it’s different, and there where they are trying to wipe you
570
1 Honor.
6 RECROSS EXAMINATION
7 BY MR. SAPI:
15 Christian training.
571
1 ago had two young men in my home from, I think, Detroit, Texas,
10 A The parents?
0 13 be the charm.
572
1 A Yes.
8 spoken to?
9 A None.
11 A Yes.
18 is——
19 Q No,no—
o 24
25
are no final judgments. It’s a changing thing.
573
things ; courts can reverse themselves . So that you keep
on working .
Doctor?
final question .
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR . SHARPE :
574
with an educational plan of instruction to meet these
A I would .
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. O'HANLON :
anything .
I gave .
57 5
Q what if he wasn't being taught anything and that's
or private . Now, that was fought tooth and nail and was
57 6
have ---
getting alimony .
of Texas?
A No, I didn't .
MR . SAFI : I do .
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR . SAFI :
of Dr . Perry Zirkel?
A Who?
Q Perry Zirkel .
University .
A No .
57 7
Q Are you familiar with an organization by the name
57 8
Q No, no, no . My question was, would you be
I mean, I'm not saying that they are taking the position
generalization?
57 9
A I can report only on the court ordered testing and
Q NO ---
A I'm trying to --
until you have that number and then you can give it to me .
an adjoining state .
58 0
you for that number . What we're talking about then is
program of testing?
only question was, that this court ordered testing that you
A Yes .
Q Okay .
saying is ---
581