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26 November 2007 - Afternoon session FAQ
Press notices
20 (2.00 pm) Biography
21 (Jury present) Costs
22 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: I call Mr Tebbutt. Contacts
General Information about the Inquests
23 MR COLIN TEBBUTT (sworn)
24 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Do you prefer to sit or stand?
External links
25 A. I will stand, sir. Surrey Coroner's Court
68 Site information
Access keys
1 Questions from MR HOUGH Privacy
2 MR HOUGH: Is your name Colin Tebbutt? Sitemap
3 A. It is.
4 Q. My name is Jonathan Hough. I ask questions on behalf of Français
5 the Coroner today. Introduction
6 Now I think that you made a witness statement to Biographie
7 the officers of Operation Paget in the course of their FAQs
8 investigations in July 2004. Is that right? Rôle du coroner
Contactez
9 A. That is correct, sir. Personnes intéressées et leurs
10 Q. I think you made two very short witness statements to représentants juridiques
11 those officers after that main statement, didn't you? Information sur les Enquetes conduites par
12 A. I did, sir. le Coroner
13 Q. I think you also gave a statement in relation to
14 the criminal proceedings against Mr Paul Burrell. Do
15 you recall that?
16 A. I do, sir.
17 Q. That also dealt with some matters which are of relevance
18 to this inquest.
19 A. So I understand, sir, but I have not had a chance to
20 read back. It was 2002.
21 Q. Now I do not think you gave any statement to the French
22 police, did you?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. Have you given any interview or statement or account of
25 these events to anyone else, official or media or
69
1 anything?
2 A. Yes, I have been asked by various members of the media,
3 and I am a man that likes to see the truth said, and if
4 I am asked a question, I answer it truthfully.
5 Q. Have you given any extended interviews to media
6 organisations?
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. I think also that you made some contemporaneous
9 manuscript notes about the events on 31st August 1997,
10 didn't you?
11 A. I did, sir.
12 Q. Did you have recourse to those notes when you came to
13 make your statement?
14 A. I did, sir.
15 Q. Can I deal with your personal background? You, I think,
16 were a police officer with the Metropolitan Police from
17 1959 to 1993; is that right?
18 A. Correct, sir.
19 Q. During your time of service, you worked for the royalty
20 protection group, which we have heard referred to today
21 as "SO14", from the year 1979; is that right?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. After your retirement in 1993, you have been
24 a self-employed security consultant; is that right?
25 A. And driver, yes, security driver and consultancy.
70
1 Q. In that capacity, you have worked for various members of
2 the Royal Family?
3 A. Correct, sir.
4 Q. Various members of the Spencer family?
5 A. Correct, sir.
6 Q. I think within that work, as you have said, it involves
7 driving your principals and it involves security-related
8 matters.
9 A. The Spencer family was Mrs Shand Kydd.
10 Q. Just dealing with the nature of your job in general,
11 other than driving people from A to B, what do you do?
12 A. It is a package, sir, really. You reconnoitre, you do
13 intelligence, you assess the threat of where you are
14 going and what you are doing, private or official.
15 Official is a lot easier; private is a lot more
16 difficult. So you do a lot of work behind the scenes
17 before you actually do the job.
18 Q. When you are talking about private and official, you are
19 talking about private engagements and official
20 engagements; is that right?
21 A. Private life and official engagements, yes.
22 Q. So it is fair to say that you have considerable
23 experience in arranging security in that way, for royals
24 and other VIPs?
25 A. I like to think so, sir, yes.
71

1 Q. You have, while working as a security consultant, a team

2 under you, don't you?
3 A. I have people I can call upon, yes.
4 Q. You have worked, I think, with a Mr Jagger,
5 David Jagger --
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. -- who is, I think, ex-Special Branch.
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And a Mr Paul Mellor?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And he is from the Special Escort Group?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. What is the nature of that group?
14 A. They are an armed escort that do members of the Royal
15 Family and politicians and high-risk people that come to
16 this country. They have a motorcycle escort through
17 the traffic, sir.
18 Q. They work under your instructions?
19 A. They are both retired and, yes, they work with my team.
20 Q. Turning to the Princess of Wales, I think you first met
21 her in 1981; is that right?
22 A. I met her at the time she got engaged.
23 Q. Under what circumstances was that?
24 A. I was a back-up sergeant and just did the journey when
25 the engagement was announced from Buckingham Palace to
72
1 Clarence House, which was a very short journey.
2 Q. I do not think you ever worked for her as her own
3 personal protection officer, did you?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. But you had some contact with her when you were working
6 for some other principals?
7 A. Yes, we were often put on to join the team to help out.
8 Q. I think you were hired by her to do work as a security
9 driver and security consultant in late 1995.
10 A. Correct, sir.
11 Q. I think she contacted you to arrange that, did she not?
12 A. Well, her private secretary did.
13 Q. You may want to have your statement at page 2 in front
14 of you, but what kind of role did she ask you to
15 perform?
16 A. I remember the conversation, sir, that she was not
17 having a policeman many times now and she did not want
18 a full-time chauffeur, but she needed someone with my
19 experience to do the role that I spoke to you about
20 earlier.
21 Q. In that role, did you work with Mr Jagger and Mr Mellor
22 or on your own?
23 A. Mostly on my own, but I called them in if I needed them.
24 Q. The jury have already heard from Mr Gibbins, the private
25 secretary. Did you have dealings with him on
73

1 a day-to-day basis?
2 A. Totally.
3 Q. Did he give you your specific instructions?
4 A. For the official duties, yes. For private movements
5 with the Princess, where we kept the intelligence of
6 where she was going very quietly, that could be when
7 Mr Gibbins had gone home. That came from Mr Burrell or
8 the other two butlers or from one of the two secretaries
9 or from her Royal Highness herself.
10 Q. She would sometimes call?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. How regularly were you, in practice, called upon to
13 drive for her?
14 A. Three or four times a week, when she was in this
15 country.
16 Q. Turning to the driving work, I think cars were used by
17 you to take her around, which were supplied by
18 a Mr Rodney Turner; is that right?
19 A. Correct, sir.
20 Q. I think that was two BMWs and a Rover car.
21 A. Correct, sir.
22 Q. What security checks did you perform before driving
23 a car in which you would be taking the Princess?
24 A. My standard procedure for taking the -- first of all, if
25 we had an official function where a large BMW would be
74
1 used, it would be delivered to me on that day. The
2 Rover and the smaller BMW, the 5 series, were kept in
3 a locked garage. So whatever vehicle I was using, we
4 would do a normal check, sir; underneath, had a look at
5 it, check for safety, check the oil, give it a road test
6 and just make sure it was okay and that nobody had been
7 to it. The one that came in was a bit more difficult
8 because I had not had control of that one.
9 Q. You described that as standard or your normal
10 procedure --
11 A. My normal procedure, sir.
12 Q. Did you do anything special in relation to the
13 Princess's cars?
14 A. Working for myself, I have a debugging outfit which
15 I always used to use on the car as well.
16 Q. Did you ever find any bugs?
17 A. No.
18 Q. In the course of dealing with the Princess, did she ever
19 express to you any for her life, any specific fear?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. Did she ever express concern about the cars in which you
22 were taking her or about car journeys generally?
23 A. No, sir.
24 Q. When you were driving for her, whether for private or
25 official engagements, did you sometimes have back-up
75
1 vehicles?
2 A. I sometimes used a back-up vehicle, sir.
3 Q. But that was not all the time?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Did you take any other special security precautions on
6 occasion?
7 A. Only -- no, sir, not really. If I needed a back-up,
8 I would call it in if I felt the job needed it.
9 Q. When you were driving for her, did she normally sit
10 beside you or in the back seat?
11 A. Beside me or in the back, sir, depending on what we were
12 doing.
13 Q. Did she normally wear a seat-belt in your experience?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Did you have to do anything to encourage her to wear a
16 seat-belt?
17 A. Not to encourage her. If you are in a secure area where
18 you are not in the public gaze, it is a common courtesy
19 in a procedure to offer the seat-belt to your passenger;
20 that is, releasing the inertia and putting it across.
21 It is then up to them if they want to fix it.
22 In public, more public places, then you have to rely
23 on principal really to do it because you cannot be in
24 the public gaze trying to do that. Your job is to get
25 them securely into the car and to drive away.
76

1 Q. Now, at the time of the Princess's divorce in

2 August 1996, what changes were made regarding her
3 official car and her official protection?
4 A. Strange day, sir, really, because I think the protection
5 was certainly scaled down. We did have the use of
6 a Jaguar, but we never had the use of that after that
7 particular day. We did have a Scorpion car as well
8 because I used that on the last day, but that was
9 supplied from the Household.
10 Q. Did the time come when she chose to dispense with
11 personal protection officers from the police?
12 A. I honestly, sir, cannot tell you the workings of why she
13 did not have police. She had it on certain occasions.
14 But I do not know the politics behind why, sir.
15 Q. You said that she had it for some occasions and not
16 others. Was that right up to the time that she met her
17 death?
18 A. Yes, sir. The last official job I did with her Royal
19 Highness was to a hospital in North London where I had a
20 Sergeant Huggett, who was from the protection
21 department, with me.
22 Q. So for some occasions she had protection?
23 A. High profile, sir.
24 Q. For high-profile events, you are saying. Did she also
25 have protection when she was with other members of the
77

1 Royal Family, for example her sons?

2 A. Her sons have protection officers. Although she still
3 would not be looked after by them, she would be coming
4 under the umbrella.
5 Q. When she was provided with protection, did she know
6 about it?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Were you ever aware of her being provided with
9 protection or were you ever personally aware of what you
10 thought were protection officers around when she did not
11 know that she had protection?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. Did you ever believe, from your personal experience and
14 your knowledge of these things, that she was ever under
15 any kind of surveillance?
16 A. To my knowledge, we were not under surveillance, sir.
17 Q. Taking you now to the latter part of August 1997. This
18 is page 4 of your statement, if you need that.
19 If I may, we will deal with the few days before she
20 left London to go on the second cruise on the Jonikal.
21 I think you did some work for her on 20th August 1997,
22 the Wednesday of that week. Do you recall that?
23 A. Yes, I actually went to pick them up at Stansted.
24 Q. I think you went to pick up her and Rosa Monckton.
25 A. A lady called Rosa Monckton.

78
1 Q. That was from a holiday they had around the Greek
2 Islands?
3 A. As I understand, sir, yes.
4 Q. I think you collected her from Stansted --
5 A. Correct, sir.
6 Q. -- and drove her to Kensington Palace, dropping off
7 Rosa Monckton en route?
8 A. At Eaton Square, yes, sir.
9 Q. When you picked her up at the airport, was there a heavy
10 press presence?
11 A. Extremely, sir, but contained at a distance.
12 Q. Were arrangements made that day to meet Dodi Al Fayed at
13 the Al Fayed family residence on Park Lane?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Did you drive the Princess there from Kensington Palace?
16 A. I did.
17 Q. Was there press attention at the start of that journey?
18 A. There was press attention, sir, at every gate and had
19 been for weeks and weeks and weeks. There was never
20 ever a day when there was not press attention, sir.
21 Q. Was it particularly heavy on that occasion after she had
22 come back from the holiday with Rosa Monckton?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Were the press there just as pedestrians or in cars,
25 motorcycles?
79

1 A. They had various means. In a side street at the main

2 gate, they always used to be on motorcycles. At the top
3 of the Kensington Palace Gardens, there was a cafe
4 called "Diana" where they always used to congregate
5 there, on foot or with motorbikes.
6 Q. When you took her both from Stansted to
7 Kensington Palace and then from Kensington Palace to the
8 Al Fayed residence, or to near there, what precautions
9 did you take to limit the effect of press attention?
10 A. Well I would constantly check to see if we were followed
11 and take devious routes, which is part of my job.
12 Certainly when we used to go to Mr Al Fayed's residence,
13 we did not want to be followed and I used to send out
14 either a decoy car -- but there were three gates I could
15 use. So if I sent the 5 series BMW out, which had
16 darker windows, the press attention would normally go to
17 that and I could get out without too much problems
18 through what we called the "garden gate", which a lot of
19 the press did not know about. I hope I am not ...
20 Q. So you yourself would sometimes use the major car as
21 a decoy?
22 A. Absolutely.
23 Q. Did you, on these journeys, ever have to drive at speed
24 to outrun the paparazzi?
25 A. No, I did not, sir.
80

1 Q. Would you think that that was a proper practice?

2 A. I would drive at speed if the occasion occurred, but it
3 did not occur. The knowledge of the back-doubles and to
4 get down to Park Lane, I might go a hell of a devious
5 route, but I would get there driving, I consider,
6 normal.
7 Q. You refer to "back-doubles". Can you explain the
8 meaning of that?
9 A. Sorry, side streets, knowledge of London.
10 Q. I think when you took the Princess to the Al Fayed
11 residence, you handed her over to Trevor Rees-Jones near
12 to the residence and then you left.
13 A. Correct, sir.
14 Q. Turning on to the next day, 21st August, 1997, I think
15 you picked up the Princess of Wales in the morning from
16 Kensington Palace.
17 A. Yes, sir. Went to the gym, sir.
18 Q. You took her to the gym, then to a shop and then back to
19 Kensington Palace?
20 A. Correct, sir.
21 Q. Again, later in the day, you took her to Park Lane and
22 handed her over to Trevor Rees-Jones for the Al Fayed
23 security staff. Is that right?
24 A. I did not actually go to Mr Al Fayed's home that day.
25 We did a handover in what I describe as a back-double,

81
1 but in a street chosen by me, with a back-up vehicle,
2 making sure we had all the privacy we required.
3 Q. On that day, was the press attention heavy?
4 A. Extremely, sir.
5 Q. Did you make similar efforts to avoid it as you had made
6 the previous day?
7 A. Yes, and on that day I had a back-up vehicle, sir.
8 Q. Then on 22nd August 1997, this is the Friday, the last
9 day you saw the Princess, I think on that day she was
10 due to set off with Mr Al Fayed from the Battersea
11 heliport. Is that right?
12 A. That is correct, sir.
13 Q. That was for the second cruise on the Jonikal --
14 A. I did not know where she was going, sir.
15 Q. Did you reconnoitre the heliport and the area around it
16 earlier in the day?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. When you were doing that reconnaissance, what did you
19 see in or around the heliport?
20 A. In my profession, you get used to people who are
21 spotting. I had a great belief -- and they are
22 everywhere, sir, I have to say -- I had a great belief
23 that we had spotters there.
24 Q. By "spotters" --
25 A. People who are employed by the press. If they see any

82

1 movement of anybody, not just the Princess, but actors,

2 actresses or anybody, they phone through.
3 Q. Did you form any view as to why the press spotters were
4 there at the heliport on that day?
5 A. I do not think I did, sir, no. I think they are just
6 there, if I can remember.
7 Q. I think on pages 4 to 5 of your statement, you say that
8 you noticed that there were press spotters, you did not
9 like it and you rang Trevor Rees-Jones to explain that
10 to him.
11 A. Well, we worked as a team, Trevor Rees-Jones and myself,
12 and we both needed to know that information.
13 Q. Later in that day, did you take the Princess to
14 the heliport?
15 A. I did, sir.
16 Q. What vehicle did you use to transport her there?
17 A. A very old Volvo saloon, sir.
18 Q. Why did you use such an antique vehicle?
19 A. It was not antique, sir, but the press now was camped at
20 every gate and it was getting extremely difficult to
21 leave without being followed, and I know Mr Al Fayed,
22 Mr Dodi Al Fayed, plus the Princess did not want that
23 following that day.
24 Q. How did you know that that was Mr Al Fayed's --
25 A. Through Trevor Rees-Jones. We needed to get to
83

1 the airport, probably, without a lot of fuss.

2 Q. When you arrived at the heliport, who else was there and
3 who else was not there?
4 A. There was nobody there when I arrived. I was there with
5 the spotters -- the two spotters were there, but nobody
6 else.
7 Q. Was that because you were early or somebody else was
8 late?
9 A. I am always on time, sir.
10 Q. I think we are getting that impression from you,
11 Mr Tebbutt. The Al Fayed people, how long after your
12 due time did they arrive?
13 A. I went away, sir. I went and hid in a timberyard and
14 watched Mr Al Fayed drive by, and then, after about two
15 minutes, I then drove back to the heliport, which was in
16 a fairly secure area, but the public and press could get
17 in on the left, if you know that heliport.
18 Q. Did you then drive up?
19 A. I did.
20 Q. Did you have any conversation with the Al Fayed security
21 staff?
22 A. Well, the gentleman -- really, it was only one gentleman
23 I ever had a problem with. He started telling me I was
24 late, which slightly annoyed me, and for some reason --
25 I never used to drive the Princess normally for private
84

1 things in a suit, sir. So I was in a baseball cap and

2 a bomber jacket, and the baseball cap had
3 the Royal Marine crest, of which I was a member of
4 the Royal Marines in my earlier days, and he made some
5 derogatory remark about my cap and he told me that there
6 were three sorts of timings that I should worry about.
7 This stuck in my mind because it really did annoy me at
8 the time. But emotions run high and we were all on
9 a high. Yes, just a little tiff.
10 Q. What were the three kinds of timing that he told you?
11 A. He told me that there was Arab time, Dodi time and
12 English time and that I should be on time.
13 Q. Talking in general terms, those were the last few days
14 you spent in the company of the Princess of Wales?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Did you have any communication with her while she was
17 away by telephone?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. During that period of time, what was her mood overall?
20 A. Excellent, sir.
21 Q. When did you initially expect her to return to the UK?
22 A. On the Thursday, a couple of days before she died.
23 Q. That would have been 28th August, is that right?
24 A. Yes, it was the Thursday, sir.
25 Q. We know that her anticipated return was to be after
85

1 that. Do you know why her return was delayed in

2 the end?
3 A. Well, rumour had it, sir, that there was some bad press
4 on her mining exploits by certain members of the
5 political wing and I -- although I was not told, I just
6 heard in the office that the boss had decided to stay
7 out a little bit longer to avoid coming back and dealing
8 with the extra hassle with the particular article on --
9 I think it was about the mines.
10 Q. Landmines?
11 A. Landmines, yes, sir.
12 Q. Where were you when you were notified of what had
13 happened in Paris?
14 A. I was in bed, sir.
15 Q. Who notified you and what did they say?
16 A. It was an officer from the royalty protection squad rang
17 me, a very good friend of mine, who had seen that
18 Mr Al Fayed's driver had died -- sorry, the Princess of
19 Wales' driver had died. Most of my colleagues knew that
20 I did that job, and although I did not do it abroad,
21 some concern with my colleagues had crossed their mind,
22 was it me, and a number of phone calls came into me to
23 see if I was okay.
24 Q. What time in the morning was that call made?
25 A. It would have been 2 o'clock-ish, sir.

86
1 Q. Did you, shortly after that, speak to Mr Gibbins?
2 A. Yes, we had a conversation.
3 Q. What instruction or request did he give you?
4 A. For me to go to the office, sir.
5 Q. I think you then drove to Kensington Palace, arriving at
6 between 2.30 and 3 o'clock; is that right?
7 A. My memory, of course.
8 Q. Once you arrived there, were Mr Gibbins and Mr Burrell
9 both there?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Once you were there, what information were you given
12 about the condition of the Princess and Mr Al Fayed?
13 A. Well I had already been told by the phone calls that she
14 was injured, so my mind was thinking about how to deal
15 with getting her home. When I got to the office, I was
16 given the very sad news that Mr Al Fayed's son had died,
17 the driver had died, and at I think it was about
18 3 o'clock, Mr Gibbins announced to us all that
19 the Princess had died, which was rather strange because
20 Mr Cook was on television saying that she was still
21 injured, and I always remember that. The press were
22 still giving out that she was injured and we were being
23 given the stark facts that three people had sadly lost
24 their lives.
25 Q. Was it agreed/arranged by Mr Gibbins for you to go to
87
1 Paris with Mr Burrell?
2 A. It was, sir.
3 Q. Did you then make arrangements to get plane tickets and
4 to get to the airport?
5 A. Correct, sir.
6 Q. I think you boarded a plane at about 7 o'clock in
7 the morning.
8 A. I understand it was 6.30, not 7, but it was early in the
9 morning.
10 Q. When you arrived in Paris, who met you at the airport?
11 A. Embassy officials.
12 Q. Were you then taken to the Embassy?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Did you then meet the Ambassador and his wife?
15 A. I did, sir.
16 Q. What state were they in when you met them?
17 A. Everybody was calm and collected, sir. My biggest worry
18 was me. I really thought they were expecting lords and
19 people of a lot higher rank than myself and Mr Burrell,
20 and that had been playing on my mind. But I have to pay
21 a big compliment to Mr and Mrs Jay, who welcomed us with
22 open arms for our knowledge.
23 Q. Did Mr Burrell obtain some clothing from Lady Jay for
24 the Princess?
25 A. As I understand, sir.
88
1 Q. Where did you go to from the Embassy?
2 A. I went to the hotel, sir.
3 Q. What was the purpose of that visit?
4 A. Trying to recover the Princess's property, sir.
5 Q. Once you arrived there, did you collect the property?
6 A. No, sir.
7 Q. Why was that?
8 A. I was told it had gone back to England with Mr Al Fayed,
9 sir.
10 Q. Now, Mr Burrell, in his book, gives the order of events
11 that you went to the hospital and then to the hotel
12 later in the day.
13 A. That is incorrect.
14 Q. You are saying that he has made a mistake about that.
15 Now, from the hotel I think you did go to
16 the hospital, La Pitie-Salpetriere.
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. At what time, roughly, did you arrive at the hospital?
19 A. It would have been before midday, sir. For some reason
20 I did not make a note of that time, but it would have
21 been before midday because the time difference was an
22 hour on in France.
23 Q. I think you went in the hospital to the corridor where
24 the room was where the Princess's body was being kept.
25 Is that right?
89
1 A. I first went to see Mr Moss, who again was calm,
2 collected and totally in control. It was chaos and
3 I had a great deal of time for the way he dealt with
4 everything.
5 Q. Did Mr Moss take you up to that sealed corridor and to
6 the room where the Princess lay?
7 A. Yes, sir. His room was right on the end of the sealed
8 corridor.
9 Q. When you arrived, around midday, what was
10 the temperature like in the room?
11 A. When I actually went into the room, the whole part of
12 that hospital was very warm. It was a hot day and in
13 the room it was extremely hot.
14 Q. When you arrived, were there any air conditioners in
15 the room?
16 A. No.
17 Q. When you arrived, were the French funeral directors
18 present?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What were they doing?
21 A. Just standing in the corridor, sir.
22 Q. Did you call Mr Gibbins from there?
23 A. Yes, I set up a communications room, sir. Mr Moss gave
24 me a room to set up three lines; one to Balmoral, one to
25 Mr Gibbins and a general line for me.
90

1 Q. When you first spoke to Mr Gibbins, what instructions

2 did he give you?
3 A. I gave him as full and comprehensive a report as
4 I could, but the message came over very quickly: just
5 leave everything alone with the Princess.
6 Q. How do you mean "leave everything alone"?
7 A. Well, that Levertons, the Royal undertakers, would be
8 here to take care of everything. The only problem
9 I could see was they were arriving very late in the day.
10 Q. When were they due to arrive?
11 A. 5 o'clock, sir.
12 Q. We have heard from Mr Moss that the decision was taken
13 to put up some makeshift curtains, some sheets up at the
14 windows of the room. Were you involved in that
15 decision?
16 A. Yes, I was, sir, because the message came, if you looked
17 out the window, the press were climbing over the roofs,
18 sir. There were no sort of things up at the window, so
19 they had a direct passage in.
20 I suppose I could have used sheets, but we only were
21 given blankets, which I suppose increased the heat
22 unfortunately. But, yes, I put blankets up at
23 the window.
24 Q. So you were there, Levertons were due to arrive around
25 5 o'clock in the evening, you thought. What view did
91

1 you form about the state of the body and what should be
2 done in view of the heat?
3 A. Sir, it is a very emotional time, to walk in and see
4 your boss lying like she was. She looked old, her mouth
5 was down, not a lot of damage to her face, but she had
6 that "I do not want to be here" look, and I have to say
7 that it went back to my mother who died, who was
8 a beautiful woman, and when my mother died, she looked
9 old and did not want to be there, and before my daughter
10 saw my mother, a funeral director did her hair and did
11 make-up, and when I went back to see my mother, she was
12 my mother, she was beautiful.
13 In my mind, and my mind only, was the family were
14 coming, His Royal Highness were coming, other members
15 were coming, and I would not have wanted to see the lady
16 in that condition. My only concern was to make her face
17 look a little bit better.
18 Q. Who did you speak to about that concern?
19 A. I spoke to Mr Gibbins. I also considered the heat in
20 the room was not doing the Princess any good.
21 Q. You say you spoke to Mr Gibbins. Did you speak to
22 anybody in the hospital first before you spoke to him?
23 A. I spoke to Mr Moss. I cannot remember the actual --
24 we discussed it. It was playing on my mind a bit,
25 the heat of the room and the fact that you and I would

92
1 have been in a fridge, but there was her Royal Highness
2 lying in a bed in a very, very hot room. I considered
3 she was starting to melt, but I am no expert.
4 Q. You can see on page 8 of your statement around
5 the middle of the page, you say this:
6 "I spoke to the hospital funeral directors through
7 Mr Moss. I asked about the condition of the body under
8 these circumstances and what the condition of the body
9 would be when the Prince of Wales and the family
10 attended. I was informed that the body would start to
11 deteriorate quite rapidly. This was also the opinion of
12 the nursing staff as it was just so hot. I had to force
13 this issue because of my concerns for the family's
14 attendance and I rang Mr Gibbins."
15 Does that help you to recollect the order of the
16 events?
17 A. Yes. It maybe that the story will be seen -- the state
18 she was in, her facial state, that made me get more
19 concerned.
20 Q. The account that you give in your statement, is that
21 right?
22 A. Correct, sir.
23 Q. When you say you had to force the issue --
24 A. Well, "force" is perhaps the wrong word. My father
25 speaks fluent French, but I do not, but I had to go

93
1 through Mr Moss and try and make people understand that
2 I did not want His Royal Highness and the two ladies to
3 see the Princess lying in a bed in the state she was.
4 Q. When you did speak to Mr Gibbins, what was
5 the conversation you had with him and what was his
6 response?
7 A. Well, it was still not to do anything until Levertons
8 came, but after we all described -- I described to him
9 my thoughts -- I cannot remember the exact words, but he
10 agreed that something should be done.
11 Q. Did he seek authorisation from anyone else before he
12 said that to you?
13 A. I do not know, sir. I think he might have spoken to
14 Mr Moss.
15 Q. During those discussions, you knew His Royal Highness
16 would be coming. Did you know that other dignitaries
17 would be coming to pay their respects?
18 A. Yes. In fact, there were people walking in and out of
19 the room all the while when we got there; the Minister
20 of Health bowing at the end of the bed. People were
21 allowed to do that and we put a stop to that. Then
22 Mr Chirac came. I remember him coming down because you
23 cannot really miss him, he is a tall guy, and we just
24 out of the way.
25 Q. When you had those discussions with Mr Moss and
94
1 Mr Gibbins, were you aware of how long it would take for
2 the funeral directors to prepare the body properly?
3 A. No, no, nothing at all, sir, no.
4 Q. Did you ever become aware of how long it would take?
5 A. I went for lunch or to try to get something to eat and
6 they started whatever they were doing, and then when
7 I came back about 40 minutes later, they were still in
8 there, so they had an hour, hour and a half.
9 Q. Did you feel, when you were having those thoughts about
10 the preservation of the body, that there was any
11 pressure of time?
12 A. Oh yes, sir.
13 Q. Now obviously the decision was formally made by others
14 and the instructions were given by others because, as
15 you have said, you did not have fluent French, but were
16 you aware what instructions were given to the funeral
17 directors while you were around?
18 A. Well, to the best of my recollection, sir, it was: do
19 what you have to do. To me it was the story I told you
20 about, wanting to see her looking like the beautiful
21 woman she was. That was all I was concerned about,
22 nothing else. I do not know what funeral directors do,
23 but I know that they do dress and do the make-up and do
24 the hair.
25 Q. I think you have also said that you were concerned about
95
1 the condition of the body. You used the word "melting".
2 A. It was very hot. I am not a total expert on how long
3 bodies last. People were also telling me that it could
4 deteriorate.
5 Q. Did you know at any point in these discussions the
6 nature of the precise physical procedures that would be
7 used?
8 A. No, sir, not at all.
9 Q. Did you know at that time that the Princess of Wales
10 might undergo a post-mortem examination in the UK?
11 A. That was in my mind because we do have post mortems when
12 people come back, when they die abroad.
13 Q. Was there any discussion of that with Mr Moss or with
14 the French funeral directors?
15 A. Not as I can remember, sir.
16 Q. Did Mr Burrell then provide Lady Jay's clothes to
17 the funeral directors?
18 A. He did, sir.
19 Q. But did he actually put the clothes on the body?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. I will go relatively quickly from there, your return to
22 the UK. I think you remained in the hospital until
23 the dignitaries arrived and the Princess's body was
24 taken to Villacoublay Airport. Is that right?
25 A. Yes, His Royal Highness arrived. I was outside the
96

1 room, he came up and he was totally in control, very

2 calm. I spoke to him. He said I was to go back with
3 the body which, in answer to your last question, I was
4 quite pleased because, starting to think like
5 a policeman, you should have a bit of continuity from
6 leaving the country to get into England. That was
7 just -- there were so many things going on in my mind,
8 I was beginning to think of things that maybe did not
9 concern me. But I was still thinking like a policeman
10 at that time.
11 Q. We have already heard from Mr Leverton and
12 Colonel Mather about arrangements for the return of
13 the body. You and Mr Burrell returned in the plane that
14 took the coffin, didn't you?
15 A. Correct, sir.
16 Q. Later on that Sunday, you attended the Fulham mortuary,
17 is that right?
18 A. We went from Northolt straight to Fulham.
19 Q. Were you in the room when the post-mortem examination
20 was undertaken?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. Who else was in and around the Fulham mortuary when you
23 got there?
24 A. There appeared to be Palace officials and Dr/Mr Wheeler,
25 who was concerned about our state of health and offered
97

1 us anything, you know, counseling.

2 Q. Were there any members of the press around?
3 A. I did not notice any members of the press at all.
4 Fulham mortuary, you go through big gates and you are in
5 a private area.
6 Q. When you got into the private area, did you see any
7 policemen you recognised?
8 A. Yes, there was one SO14 officer.
9 Q. Who was that?
10 A. Michael Walker.
11 Q. Do you know why he was there?
12 A. I think he was there to provide police coverage during
13 the night, sir.
14 Q. As far as you were aware, did he go into the room to see
15 the post-mortem examination?
16 A. I am not aware of that, sir.
17 Q. On the Monday, the day after, did you collect the
18 Princess of Wales' possessions from Mr Al Fayed's press
19 spokesman? That is Mr Cole.
20 A. Yes, I saw Mr Cole at the offices.
21 Q. Yes, he is here today. Did you collect them from
22 Harrods?
23 A. I did, sir. I had a letter of authorisation.
24 Q. Did you then take them to Diana's sister, Lady Sarah
25 McCorquodale?

98
1 A. I had them in the car, sir. Mr Cole supplied a Harrods
2 official to accompany us to the house, sir.
3 Q. When you got to Lady Sarah's residence, were you present
4 while the bags were unpacked?
5 A. I was, sir.
6 Q. Did you notice anything being taken out of the bags that
7 struck you or caught your attention?
8 A. Well, there was a lot of property. I suppose it was
9 only in the context of reading through the case that
10 I did notice what I consider to be two tampons, or
11 however you describe it, in the luggage, but that was
12 just something I noticed, plus other empty boxes, which
13 are I presume -- you know, the Princess would wear a lot
14 of jewellery and I presume they were the boxes from that
15 jewellery.
16 Q. I would like to ask you now some general questions.
17 While you were working for the Princess, did she have
18 any conversations with you about private matters,
19 personal matters?
20 A. Yes, I had been divorced and we used to discuss divorce.
21 That was normal. When you are driving together, you
22 discuss all sorts of things.
23 Q. Was she a more than usually forthcoming principal or
24 boss?
25 A. You know when to speak, sir, you don't cross the line.

99
1 If you are spoken to, you answer.
2 Q. Did she give you any indication that she was planning to
3 get engaged?
4 A. Not to me, sir.
5 Q. Did she give you any indication that she thought she was
6 or might be pregnant at any stage?
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. Did she give you any indication at any stage that she
9 was intending to live overseas?
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. From your own perspective, if she had been intending any
12 of those things, do you think she would have said that
13 to you?
14 A. No, I do not think she would have discussed that
15 private, to be quite honest with you. As I said, sir,
16 there is a line. We certainly had lots of
17 conversations, but never anything as personal as you are
18 suggesting.
19 Q. Were you aware of the relationship she had had with
20 Hasnat Khan?
21 A. I was, sir.
22 Q. How strong did you think that relationship was?
23 A. Very strong, sir.
24 Q. How strong a relationship do you think she had with
25 Dodi Al Fayed?
100

1 A. I think she was enjoying his company, sir.

2 Q. Are you able to expand on that?
3 A. I do not know about the relationship, sir. I was never
4 there when the private side was there.
5 Q. We don't want to cross the line either.
6 A. Absolutely, sir.
7 Q. In your dealings with the Al Fayed organisation, what
8 was your view of their security and any other aspect
9 that you feel able to comment on?
10 A. Well, we had to work as a team, sir. They were army
11 trained and we were police trained. I think there is
12 a slight difference between Royal protection officers
13 and army protection. We do different courses and so on.
14 Maybe just a little bit more -- the word "heavy" is
15 wrong; more efficient. They tried to be -- they don't
16 have the background on how to deal at a low-level
17 protection, you know. Very good, work well as a team,
18 but the royalty protection officers work with
19 the principals and the training is extremely high and
20 you build up a rapport.
21 Q. Can I now ask you some questions about security
22 procedures? We have heard that you were a personal
23 protection officer for various members of the Royal
24 Family for 14 years.
25 A. Yes, sir.
101

1 Q. You would obviously, in that role, have had considerable

2 experience driving principals who were being pursued by
3 the press.
4 A. No, I was not driving. I would have a driver. As
5 a protection officer, I am sitting next to the driver.
6 Q. So you had experience as a protection officer for
7 14 years?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And then, since then, you have had experience of
10 actually driving people?
11 A. Correct, sir.
12 Q. And in both capacities you were aware of your principal
13 being pursued by the press?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. And you were aware of the precautions that were taken
16 either to shake off the press or to stop them from
17 causing a problem for you?
18 A. "Shake off" is a word I do not use. It is just taking
19 precautions and using the back-doubles.
20 Q. We have heard a little about seat-belts. Would a police
21 personal protection officer ever allow his principal not
22 to wear a seat-belt?
23 A. Well, he would make a note if they were not wearing it.
24 I used to work with the members of the Royal Family who
25 did wear a seat-belt, and the protection officer --

102
1 it is not an offence -- it is an offence of the person,
2 sir, not of anybody else in the car.
3 Q. Were there any particular circumstances where you would
4 insist on a seat-belt being worn?
5 A. No. I never came the heavy hand on that.
6 Q. In terms of what the police permitted, would the police
7 permit a personal protection officer to drive
8 a principal having consumed any amount of alcohol at
9 all, even below the drink-drive limit?
10 A. That was a sackable offence, sacking offence.
11 Q. Turning then to the techniques used by police drivers
12 and protection officers to avoid the attentions of the
13 press. You have described about using side streets; you
14 have described about using devious routes. What was
15 the normal practice about trying to outrun the press,
16 particularly in an urban environment?
17 A. I can honestly say, sir, I have never attempted to
18 outrun the press. They will get you in the end. They
19 are there. I have never outrun them.
20 Q. Do you know whether other drivers have tried to do that
21 or whether that is standard practice for other drivers?
22 A. No, sir. It is something we have to live with.
23 Q. I think you know for yourself the circumstances and
24 route of the final journey the Princess and Mr Al Fayed
25 took from the Ritz to where they sadly met their deaths.

103
1 A. I did not go on the route, sir, no. I visited
2 the scene.
3 Q. You are aware of what the route was?
4 A. Only from what I read in the paper, sir.
5 Q. Knowing that route -- and please don't answer this if
6 you don't feel able to -- having heard of that route
7 from the papers, as you said you did, are you able to
8 say whether you would have wanted a back-up vehicle for
9 that route?
10 A. A back-up vehicle is -- you have a look at
11 the situation, the threat level at the time of whatever
12 job you are doing, sir, and I very, very rarely -- I did
13 occasionally, when I was -- in the last six weeks with
14 Mr Al Fayed and Trevor Rees-Jones, we used a back-up
15 vehicle just to block the street that we were going to
16 change over in, but not to block anybody, apart from
17 the street that we were entering to do the changeover.
18 MR HOUGH: Thank you very much. Those are my questions.
19 Others may have some more.
20 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Mansfield?
21 Questions from MR MANSFIELD
22 MR MANSFIELD: I represent Mohamed Al Fayed, whose son,
23 Dodi, you drove from time to time and who died in
24 the crash.
25 It may be easier for everyone if I do what I did

104
1 with Mr Gibbins, and that is that you have in front of
2 you a chronology, starting 11th July. It is easier for
3 the witness if I follow through some dates.
4 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Do we have a spare one anywhere?
5 MR MANSFIELD: There is one there. I am most obliged.
6 Now this is a chronology that we are using here of
7 particular dates relevant to the inquest starting on
8 11th July. Do you see that?
9 If I just run through it because you may not have
10 seen this before. 11th to 20th, the Princess of Wales
11 goes to Saint Tropez. I will come back to this all in
12 a minute; 22nd July, she goes to Milan; 24th to 26th,
13 she is with her sister; 26th to 27th, she is with Dodi;
14 31st July through to 6th, again with Dodi but on the
15 boat, Jonikal, Saint Tropez, Monte Carlo and so forth;
16 8th to 10th, she is in Bosnia; 15th August, she is with
17 Rosa Monckton, and you have dealt with her return in
18 relation to that; and then 22nd through to 30th is
19 the last period she is with Dodi. All right?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. That is the overall framework. Now I want to start,
22 first of all, before we get to these dates. You began
23 in her service in late 1995, is that right?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Was the private secretary at that time Patrick Jephson?

105
1 A. No, sir, Mr Gibbins.
2 Q. Now, when you started, did Mr Gibbins or anyone indicate
3 that -- and in particular, Mr Burrell, he was there;
4 yes?
5 A. (Witness nods).
6 Q. Did Mr Burrell or Mr Gibbins or anyone else indicate
7 that the Princess did have fears about her own death?
8 A. It was not mentioned to me, sir.
9 Q. So that it is clear, you have probably read about it
10 anyway, but if I just put it to you, you see, she had
11 written something down for Paul Burrell, in fact in
12 1995, just before -- it seems as though it is 1995, so
13 I will be careful. It may be 1996, but if it is 1995,
14 it is just before you start. She has written down
15 something to the effect that she is afraid that she may
16 be killed or seriously injured in a car accident, and it
17 appears that also she has told her private secretary,
18 not Gibbins, but the previous one, something very
19 similar. Nobody ever mentioned any of that to you?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. And she certainly did not?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. But on the other hand, she was concerned, was she not --
24 and this was the question you were asked a bit earlier
25 but you did not actually answer it -- the question is:

106

1 she was concerned, was she not, about surveillance?

2 A. No. I said I did not know anything about surveillance.
3 Q. I know you said you thought she was not surveyed. That
4 is not quite the same answer. Did you drive her in
5 Paris, France, Monte Carlo?
6 A. No.
7 Q. You didn't do any driving there?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. So you don't know whether she was the subject of
10 surveillance abroad, do you?
11 A. No, sir, and it was never mentioned to me.
12 Q. No, I appreciate it might not have been. But she was
13 concerned about surveillance herself, was she not?
14 Please think about it.
15 A. Well, it was not transmitted to me, sir.
16 Q. Well, you were aware of her concern vis a vis her
17 vehicles, weren't you?
18 A. No, sir. I checked the vehicles as a standard procedure
19 by me, sir.
20 Q. I appreciate that. You were aware, were you not, that
21 one of her vehicles had been examined in relation to
22 surveillance equipment, weren't you?
23 A. Before my time, sir.
24 Q. That is really what I am asking you. You were aware of
25 that before your time. How long before your time?

107

1 A. I could not say, sir.

2 Q. How did you become aware of that?
3 A. By reading about it, sir.
4 Q. Yes. Of course one can read about it in a number of
5 different ways.
6 A. I do not know, sir, where I read or how I heard, but
7 I did not know about it, sir. I didn't know about it
8 from their lips or any of the office lips, sir.
9 Q. So you don't know how it arose or what happened in
10 relation to it?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. In fact, were you aware that a security consultant had
13 been employed in order to detect it?
14 A. No, sir.
15 Q. You had not read that?
16 A. I may have done, sir, but I was not aware of it.
17 Q. Just moving on from that, but it is a related topic, did
18 you know that in fact -- and this is in the summer
19 period of 1997 -- that she, again I suggest because of
20 the worries that she had over surveillance, changed her
21 mobile phone number, did she not, quite regularly?
22 A. Sir, I was not part of that. That did not concern me
23 and I have knowledge of that, sir.
24 Q. You had no knowledge. You see, we have heard from
25 Mr Gibbins about the changing of phone numbers, but you

108

1 don't know anything about that either?

2 A. Way out of my remit, sir.
3 Q. So if she had changed her mobile phone number before she
4 went to Greece, the holiday where you went to pick her
5 up when she returned, you would not know anything about
6 that?
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. If you turn to the chronology for a moment. I know you
9 have come in on it today in relation to the return from
10 the Greece holiday which we have just been mentioning,
11 but I want to take you back before, if you can help.
12 That was in the middle of August. The middle of July,
13 as she flies to Saint Tropez, did you drive her to
14 the airport or have any dealings on that?
15 A. I would have to -- I cannot off the top of my head
16 unless I have written it down --
17 Q. No, it is not in there.
18 A. It is ten years ago. I would need to have some sort of
19 memory recall of paperwork.
20 Q. It is some time ago. Did you keep a diary?
21 A. No, I did not keep a diary. My invoices were my diary,
22 sir, really.
23 Q. So there would be documentation indicating movements and
24 so on, sir?
25 A. There should be, sir. They were not in detail, I would

109

1 have to say. None of my work is in detail. It is

2 something that I can understand, but other people
3 probably could not. I really -- I am desperately trying
4 to think back. Have you got the date, sir?
5 Q. No, I have not.
6 A. If I could answer that question from my knowledge,
7 I would immediately tell you, but I honestly cannot
8 remember that bit.
9 Q. That is understandable. The reason I ask is it may
10 become important slightly later.
11 I will go through this quickly. In terms of
12 the 11th to the 20th, you have no recollection of taking
13 them picking them up or whatever? It is the first time
14 she --
15 A. Is that the one when she went with the children?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. Well the police would take care of those journeys, not
18 me.
19 Q. Not you. So you would not be involved in those at all?
20 A. No.
21 Q. The one on 22nd July, she is going to Milan. Do you
22 remember anything about that or not?
23 A. I probably would have done it, sir, but I cannot think
24 of anything to jog my memory about it at this present
25 moment.
110

1 Q. I will not take time about it if you cannot remember

2 a particular. I will not trouble you with 24th/26th.
3 26th/27th, she is in London and in Paris. At the London
4 end -- do you see that, the 26th?
5 A. Which page are we on?
6 Q. It is the second page at the top.
7 A. Sorry, I turned over two pages. My apologies.
8 Q. It is all right. At the top, you will see -- I am not
9 going to ask you obviously about the Paris end of it,
10 but the London end, do you remember that, driving them
11 around at all?
12 A. "Them around", sir?
13 Q. Yes, in London and in Paris.
14 A. I never had anybody except the Princess in the car, sir.
15 Q. All right. So did you drive the Princess at that time
16 to see Dodi or meet up with Dodi?
17 A. We did it on a few occasions, sir.
18 Q. I know you did. You have told us about a later period.
19 I am really asking about the earlier period.
20 A. Well, if she went, I would have driven her.
21 Q. But you don't remember?
22 A. I cannot specifically say the dates. I know that on
23 about three or four occasions I dealt with
24 Mr Rees-Jones. We had a good working relationship and
25 I did drive Her Royal Highness on very many occasions to
111

1 wherever Dodi was.

2 Q. So, again, I cannot ask you in detail because you don't
3 remember it. 31st to 6th is where again they both fly
4 to Nice, to Jonikal and so on, and they return to
5 England on the 6th. Do you have any recollection of
6 that, picking up the Princess or anyone else?
7 A. Just remind me. It is the second page again?
8 Q. It is the second page. It is the end of July into
9 August. The children are --
10 A. I cannot even remember where they flew from. Were the
11 children involved, sir?
12 Q. No, they were not.
13 A. Then it would have been me to wherever they went.
14 Q. But you did not know where they were going?
15 A. No, never did, sir.
16 Q. Then she is back in England after the 6th, and then,
17 between the 8th and the 10th, she goes to Bosnia. Did
18 you know about that?
19 A. I am pretty sure she went by private plane.
20 Q. But did you drive her in this period?
21 A. Oh yes.
22 Q. You did?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. How much did you know about what she was doing?
25 A. Not a lot, sir. If that was the landmines, I knew
112

1 it was the landmines.

2 Q. Just on that topic for a moment, I do not know if you
3 can recall, but in fact this was not her first visit
4 abroad in connection with landmines, was it?
5 A. No, I believe she had been taken on by the Red Cross
6 some time before.
7 Q. In fact, just to remind you, at the beginning of that
8 year, 1997, she had been to Angola. Do you remember
9 that?
10 A. She had been abroad. I cannot say whether that was
11 the country, sir.
12 Q. I am asking for your assistance in view of something you
13 say about a later return. The publicity she had
14 received earlier in the year, some of it was quite
15 hostile, wasn't it, about her interfering in politics,
16 basically?
17 A. It was, yes.
18 Q. But she carried on. She was not going to be bothered by
19 that, was she?
20 A. Determined lady, sir.
21 Q. On the chronology I will move on. There is the holiday
22 for which you go to Stansted and the press are waiting.
23 You have dealt with that.
24 You have also dealt -- and I am not going through
25 the days, the days in between the 20th, when she is
113

1 back -- there is only a couple of them -- and they go

2 off again on the 22nd. You are driving her to him on
3 those intervening days, are you not?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. It is perfectly clear to you that there is a rapidly
6 developing relationship between these two, as far as you
7 can tell?
8 A. I am no expert in that, sir. I am getting married in
9 two weeks' time and my relationship with my partner is
10 very good. I will tell you that the Princess was happy,
11 but I can't ....
12 Q. You have described it in these terms, have you not, in
13 the past? We are only dealing with a couple of days in
14 this because she is abroad. The way you put it -- if
15 you want to follow it, it is at the bottom of page 11 in
16 your statement:
17 "In the last few days [I anticipate you mean these
18 days in London], I saw the Princess of Wales, it was
19 business as usual. Nothing out of the ordinary
20 happened. In my opinion the Princess of Wales was in
21 a good frame of mind. She appeared relaxed and very
22 happy, albeit slightly uptight about the press
23 intrusion, but nothing more."
24 That is how you put it.
25 A. I think on both parties there was extreme concern about

114
1 the amount of press, but --
2 Q. I just want to deal -- and the reason I was asking you
3 about documentation is that I want to ask you a little
4 more carefully about this second visit. Again I think
5 you are saying you did not know where she was going on
6 this second occasion --
7 A. On the 22nd, sir?
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. No.
10 Q. Did you know she was going to be with Dodi? Presumably
11 you assumed that --
12 A. Well, I was going to meet him, sir.
13 Q. So you could assume that much. Now, when she left,
14 I want to ask you whether, at that stage, you knew when
15 she would be returning.
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. You did not?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. Now you did not speak to her while she was away. Is
20 that right?
21 A. (Witness nods) The last words we had were at
22 the airport.
23 Q. The airport at Battersea, you mean?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. The heliport. Right.

115
1 I just want to see if -- you may have made some
2 assumptions here. I just want to suggest to you that in
3 fact she was not due back until the weekend. Now,
4 the source of that is her private secretary, Mr Gibbins,
5 who was standing right there last week. Do you think
6 that is right, that in fact she was not due back until
7 the weekend?
8 A. Which dates were they, sir?
9 Q. Well, namely --
10 A. On the Thursday -- the Thursday I was told to stand by,
11 whatever date that was, sir.
12 Q. That is the 28th. It may be that you were due to stand
13 by, but it was not her telling you this.
14 A. Oh no, sir, the office.
15 Q. It was the office. Was it just someone at the office
16 saying "Look, you had better be ready" --
17 A. No, no.
18 Q. -- or was it Mr Gibbins?
19 A. On that occasion, I am sure it was Mr Gibbins, but
20 I honestly cannot tell you one way or the other. There
21 were two girls that used to give me instructions. On
22 the official side, it used to be Mr Gibbins, sir.
23 Q. The reason I am asking you carefully is this: his
24 recollection is that he did not believe that she was due
25 back until the weekend. So if somebody was alerting you

116
1 on the 28th, I suggest it was not him. It may be that
2 somebody in the office said "Can you be on standby?" but
3 it was not him.
4 A. Well, I cannot say one way or the other. I was informed
5 to stand by for the 28th.
6 Q. I want to deal with one other thing that you indicated
7 today, that you thought that the reason -- because you
8 thought she was due back on the Thursday, that she had
9 changed her mind about coming back. But you may be
10 wrong about that. She was not coming back on the
11 Thursday, she was coming back at the weekend, and you
12 have put two and two together here.
13 A. I could be wrong, sir, but I was told about
14 the political turmoil. Whether I put two and two
15 together, I was told she was not coming back on
16 that 28th.
17 Q. I understand that. You may have been told that. Of
18 course, she never said to you, because you had not had
19 any phone calls from her --
20 A. No.
21 Q. -- that she was not going to come back. I want to
22 suggest to you that whatever rumours may be going around
23 at that time, the landmines issue was not one that was
24 going to put her off coming back if that is what she
25 wanted to do.

117
1 So I suggest to you that really what you have done
2 here is you may have heard a little bit of gossip about
3 landmines and people getting upset, the fact you were on
4 standby, whereas all along she was not going to come
5 back until the weekend. Do you follow what I am putting
6 to you?
7 A. I follow what you are saying.
8 Q. And that may be possible?
9 A. I wish I could memory recall that moment that I was told
10 to stand by, but I really cannot. So I cannot say one
11 way or the other.
12 Q. It may help a little bit, not a lot I agree, but you
13 made some notes at the time. Do you remember?
14 A. Of where, sir?
15 Q. You made some notes. I take it that it is your writing.
16 We have understood they are --
17 A. At the hospital or just after?
18 Q. Just after. Over that weekend, you made some quick
19 notes on a piece of paper. Do you have them there?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. Would you bear with me while I just read what you appear
22 to have written down?
23 "Saturday August 30th 1997" is how you start
24 the notes. Do you remember? It says:
25 "Message from Princess of Wales ..."

118
1 In fact, it would not have come from her --
2 A. No, that was from the office.
3 Q. " ... to meet her at Stansted airport with BMW."
4 In fact the arrangement is for the next day,
5 2 o'clock, the next day. Do you remember?
6 A. If I have put that there, that is correct, sir.
7 Q. So I am just prompting you from your own notes about
8 this matter. So the notes indicate a message on the
9 Saturday from the office, you are going to meet her at
10 Stansted at 2 o'clock on the Sunday. Can we move on
11 from that?
12 I only have one question about your visit to Paris
13 itself, and that is this: were you aware, when you were
14 there, that there would have to be an autopsy here in
15 the United Kingdom or not?
16 A. I think my -- yes, I am sure I did, sir, and I think
17 I put it in my statement, about a post mortem. I am
18 pretty sure in my mind that it crossed my mind that day
19 that they post-mortem people that come back into
20 the country. So, yes, I was aware.
21 Q. The reason I ask you -- and it is a small point -- was
22 anybody in Paris saying to the French, "Look, there has
23 to be an autopsy"?
24 A. I did not hear that.
25 Q. You did not hear that. And you did not say it?
119

1 A. No, I did not.

2 Q. Because the way you have put it in your statement -- you
3 are welcome to look at it, it is page 9, and if you just
4 look, it is 8 paragraphs down, they are not numbered,
5 I am afraid, but there is one:
6 "I have been asked whether I was aware... "
7 Do you see that?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. " ... whether I was aware that the Princess of Wales was
10 going to be subject to a post-mortem examination at the
11 Fulham mortuary. I would say that at no stage was
12 I aware of this. And it was only when I met Mr Gibbins
13 at RAF Northolt... "
14 Is that your recollection of your state of mind at
15 the time?
16 A. My state of mind was in a dreadful state. I was trying
17 to take a lot on board. I am sure in my mind, something
18 said there would be an autopsy but if I have written
19 that, I have written it for a reason. Hindsight is a --
20 Q. It is.
21 A. When you look back at things, there was so much
22 happening that day. There was nothing untoward.
23 Q. No, no, I am not suggesting it. I am just assessing
24 the state of mind of various people and the chronology
25 of it.

120

1 So do you think the statement is a reflection, or do

2 you just not know any more, about what you thought about
3 an autopsy?
4 A. I doubt if anybody put that question to me the way you
5 have done it. They probably said did you know there was
6 an autopsy. When you put it in that way, then
7 I probably had a memory flash that, "Christ, there
8 probably will be one when we get back" --
9 Q. Well, I did not, my learned friend did actually.
10 A. I cannot argue one way or the other on that, sir.
11 Q. Very well.
12 One other very minor matter: when you got back to
13 London, you were authorised to go and collect her
14 belongings. Do you remember that -- I am not suggesting
15 that you necessarily know this -- that in fact there had
16 been telephone communication between Mohamed Al Fayed
17 and Sarah McCorquodale about the collection of the
18 property. You got authorisation. Do you remember
19 anything like that happening?
20 A. I was given a letter to go and see Mr Cole. I was not
21 aware of any telephone calls.
22 Q. You were not aware of the background, all right.
23 When you get to Harrods, no question, yes, you
24 had dealings with Mr Cole. All I want to suggest is: do
25 you think you may be one day out? It didn't happen on

121

1 the Monday --
2 A. It happened on the Tuesday. I am one day out. I am
3 sorry.
4 MR MANSFIELD: Thank you very much.
5 A. My mind was coming back there, sir.
6 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Keen?
7 MR KEEN: No questions, sir.
8 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Croxford?
9 MR CROXFORD: No thank you, sir.
10 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Horwell, how long are you
11 likely to be?
12 MR HORWELL: Very, very short, sir.
13 Questions from MR HORWELL
14 MR HORWELL: My name is Richard Horwell and I appear on
15 behalf of the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police.
16 Can I ask you about the topic that you are here to give
17 evidence about, which is the events in Paris and
18 the preparation of the body of the Princess of Wales.
19 Can I ask you to turn to page 8 of 12 of your
20 statement?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. In a paragraph just below the halfway point, you refer
23 to the information that you had been given, that
24 the Princess was melting, because of the heat in
25 the room.
122

1 A. Which page?
2 Q. It is the paragraph beginning, "I had to force this
3 issue ..." Do you have that?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. And you refer in the second and third line that
6 the information that you had been given, that
7 the Princess was melting.
8 A. That is probably the wrong word, "melting", sir.
9 "Deteriorating" I think is --
10 Q. We all know what you mean. It was very hot in that
11 room, was it not?
12 A. Oh, extremely, sir.
13 Q. And do you continue in that paragraph with a reference
14 to the French funeral directors, saying that it would
15 take them about an hour and a half to prepare the body
16 for the arrival of the Prince of Wales?
17 A. Well I have read that now, sir. It was about an
18 hour/hour and a half because I was up at lunch.
19 Q. From what the French funeral directors had mentioned,
20 it would take approximately one and a half hours to
21 prepare --
22 A. If it is there, but I can't pick that up.
23 Q. It is there.
24 A. If it is there, sir, yes.
25 Q. So the French funeral directors were making it clear
123

1 this they would require about an hour and a half to

2 prepare the Princess's body for presentation?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And do you, in the next paragraph, refer to a telephone
5 call with Mr Gibbins, who is of course in London, and
6 did he say:
7 "If you think they will do a good job, then yes."
8 A. Yes. And -- words of that effect. I cannot remember it
9 verbatim. If you remember earlier, my evidence, that
10 I was only worried about how the boss looks and going
11 back to my own ... I would not want anybody to see her
12 in the state that she was in.
13 Q. It became a very important issue, the presentability?
14 A. Important to me. It got very personal with me.
15 Q. And to others?
16 A. I would like to think so.
17 Q. The presentability of her body?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. You in the following paragraph refer to your speaking to
20 Mr Moss, who was of course with you in Paris, and told
21 him:
22 "If we don't do something, the body is going to be
23 in a state."
24 A. Yes, there was a general conversation on that, sir.
25 Q. And a little later, bottom of the page:
124

1 "The funeral directors were also in the room,

2 I said, 'Would you kindly do whatever you do to prepare
3 the body for when the family arrives'."
4 Mr Moss then spoke to them in French and immediately
5 afterwards, the funeral directors changed into what
6 appeared to be protective clothing and they went about
7 their work?
8 A. Correct, sir.
9 Q. And over to the next page, page 9 of 12, at the bottom,
10 do you have a reference to Mr Leverton arriving and
11 saying of the work that the French funeral directors had
12 done, "They have done a very good job"?
13 A. Yes. I was extremely worried at this stage that --
14 because of the conversations that had gone on. You had
15 to be there to see the funeral directors arrive. It was
16 quite dramatic in my opinion, of walking down
17 the corridor with the coffin on their shoulders and all
18 in morning suits. It was enough to unnerve anybody.
19 I know Mr Leverton and I just said, "I hope everything
20 is all right in there", or words to that effect. When
21 he came out, he said, "Yes, they've done a good job, but
22 we need to touch up a bit more".
23 Q. But the French funeral directors had done a good job,
24 that was his comment?
25 A. Yes.
125
1 Q. Thank you.
2 One last topic, please, page 11 of 12 of your
3 statement: you have been asked about the reference at
4 the bottom of that page to the Princess of Wales being
5 in a good frame of mind:
6 "She appeared relaxed and very happy, albeit
7 slightly uptight about the press intrusion, but nothing
8 more."?
9 A. Correct, sir.
10 Q. Can I ask you to turn over the page and to continue?
11 I will read it:
12 "She had never mentioned to me anything in respect
13 of a forthcoming engagement to Dodi Al Fayed or a major
14 change in her life. In my opinion she was enjoying
15 a friendship, a holiday, and using the Al Fayed
16 organisation's helicopter and aeroplane. These
17 facilities made getting in and out of the country a lot
18 easier than Heathrow where press intrusion was virtually
19 guaranteed."
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. That is the view that you had at the time?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 MR HORWELL: Thank you.
24 Further questions from MR HOUGH
25 MR HOUGH: Just one very brief question: Mr Mansfield asked
126

1 you about some notes you made about the events that
2 we have been dealing with and some notes you made on
3 Saturday 30th August 1997. I would just like to
4 complete your note and ask you to confirm this.
5 You were asked about a message received on
6 Saturday 30th in relation to collecting the Princess of
7 Wales from Stansted airport with the BMW, arranging to
8 take her to Kensington Palace. Is that right?
9 A. Correct, sir.
10 Q. The note goes on:
11 "To KP", that is Kensington Palace, is it?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. "To KP London, alone, not with Dodi."
14 Was that part of your instruction, that she was
15 going to Kensington Palace on her own?
16 A. Yes. We always travelled on our own.
17 Q. And did you know where Mr Al Fayed would be going from
18 the airport?
19 A. No.
20 MR HOUGH: Those are all my questions.
21 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you very much.
22 A. Sir, could I just make one observation?
23 In the hospital, it was all geared to
24 the Princess of Wales. I did say a prayer for
25 Mr Al Fayed's son, and the other people who died.

127
1 It was not all for that; I did have a lot of thought for
2 the other people, sir. It may not come over in my
3 statement.
4 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you very much, Mr Tebbutt.
5 I am sure that that is appreciated and I am sure that
6 everybody understands what a difficult position you were
7 in, in Paris. Thank you.
8 A. Thank you, sir.
9 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Burnett, that is the evidence
10 we have today, I understand?
11 MR BURNETT: Yes, sir, that is correct.
12 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: The position as far as tomorrow
13 is concerned, I have been informed that the French
14 authorities have served Mr Rat with a summons to attend
15 to give evidence by videolink tomorrow.
16 Those representing me have been in touch with him
17 but he declines to indicate whether he is going to
18 attend or is not going to attend and as we all know,
19 there is no power to compel him to attend.
20 He indicated that he was only prepared to furnish
21 that information to the French magistrate. So, not
22 unnaturally, we have been endeavouring to make contact
23 with the French magistrate and find out what
24 the position is, but we have been unable to get
25 a definitive answer. It seems to me therefore that

128
1 we must proceed on the basis that Mr Rat will attend to
2 give evidence by videolink at half past 9 tomorrow
3 morning and be in a position to hear his evidence if he
4 does so.
5 We have another witness giving evidence here
6 tomorrow, due to come at 10 o'clock. So if Mr Rat does
7 not appear, we will continue with that witness at
8 10 o'clock. It may be that it is extremely inconvenient
9 to have to stand down Mr Lennox, the other witness,
10 until later but really it is a matter of practicalities.
11 So, we will have to I think ask the jury to be here at
12 half past 9 in the hope that we will have a witness who
13 I would anticipate, if he does come, would take
14 a substantial part of the day.
15 Is that right, Mr Mansfield?
16 MR MANSFIELD: In fact, Mr Keen or others will be dealing
17 with it.
18 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Well, Mr Keen, is that right?
19 MR KEEN: For my own part, sir, I do not anticipate being
20 a great deal of time with this witness. I would
21 anticipate being perhaps half an hour or so.
22 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: That is quite promising.
23 We might then be able to deal with Mr Lennox later in
24 the day.
25 MR KEEN: Certainly, I do not imagine it taking the best

129
1 part of a day to examine this witness.
2 MR CROXFORD: I would not expect to be the best part of the
3 day. Depending upon what ground Mr Keen covers, sir,
4 I might be half an hour or an hour but I have no idea
5 how long he will be in chief and that is a matter for
6 you and your counsel.
7 He has quite a lot of material which may or may not
8 be consistent one part with another, which they will
9 have to grapple with I assume.
10 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes. Well, again, it will help
11 if you notify my counsel as to the areas that you would
12 like covered and that will hopefully shorten matters.
13 MR CROXFORD: Well, sir, I am only drawing attention to
14 the obvious matters which arise if one reads the three
15 or four or five statements that he has made, which is
16 pretty obvious.
17 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Well, there we are. I think that
18 is the least unsatisfactory way of proceeding,
19 Mr Burnett.
20 MR BURNETT: Yes, and sir, I am reassured that it is all
21 very obvious, because then there is a chance I will
22 notice it.
23 In addition, sir, following Mr Lennox, if we get
24 there, there are two very short police officer witnesses
25 to deal with ancillary matters, but there is nothing

130
1 very controversial in that.
2 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Well, there we are, members of
3 the jury. Half past nine, please, tomorrow morning.
4 (3.22 pm)
5 (The hearing was adjourned until 9.30 am
6 on Tuesday, 27th November 2007)
7
8

131
1 INDEX
2
3 DR ROBERT CHARLES CHAPMAN (sworn) ................ 1
4
5 Questions from MR HILLIARD ................ 1
6
7 Questions from MR MANSFIELD ............... 31
8
9 Questions from MR KEEN .................... 54
10
11 Questions from MR HORWELL ................. 62
12
13 Further questions from MR HILLIARD ........ 65
14
15 MR COLIN TEBBUTT (sworn) ......................... 68
16
17 Questions from MR HOUGH ................... 69
18
19 Questions from MR MANSFIELD ............... 104
20
21 Questions from MR HORWELL ................. 122
22
23 Further questions from MR HOUGH ........... 126
24
25
132
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