4/9/2017 Fireflowreqmntforsprinkleredbuildingincludesprinklerdemand?

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Therequiredfireflowcanbereducedupto75%ifthebuildingissprinkleredaccordingtotheIFC.

Doesthereducedfireflowrequirementincludewaterdemandforsprinklersystem?orjustforfiredepartmenthosestreams
only?

Ifnot,whatmethodshouldIusetogetthevaluetoaddthethereducedfireflowrequirementtoperformhydraulicmodel?
Thanks.

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WhicheditionoftheIFC?The2003IFCtookthecreditawayforsprinklersinmostbuildings.Itwasgivenback(correctly)inthe
06IFC.

Greatpost! Report

Ilookedatyourquestionagainandhaveconcludedyouaremixingappleswithzebras.

Fireflowversussprinklerdemandaretwocompletelydifferentdesigncriteria.Fireflowisbasedonthetypeofconstruction
andthebuildingarea.ItwascalculatedusingveryempiricalformulasthatwereformulatedbytheInsuranceServiceOfficein
the1950s.Basicallyfireflowisanestimationofhowmuchwaterdoesoneneedtocontrolafireinabuildingthatisnot
equippedwithsprinklers.

SinceyourquestionindicatedthattheIFCisbeingapplied,openyourbookandturntopage394(06edition).Assumea50,000
squarefootbuildingofTypeVA(combustiblewithnofireresistance)construction.Theprescribedfireflowis2,750GPM@20
PSIGresidualpressurefor2hours.

Letusassumethattheownerequipsthissame50,000squarefootbuildingwithaNFPA13compliantautomaticsprinkler
system.Iwillfurtherassumetheceilingheightislessthan14feetandthattheownerwillnotstorehazardousmaterials,
flammableorcombustibleliquids,orotherhighchallengecommodities.Theassumedbuildingwillhouseahaircareproducts
retailoutlet.BasedonthisIwouldmostlikelyclassifythebuildingasanOrdinaryHazardGroupIIoccupancyusingthe
requirementsinChapter5ofNFPA13.

NFPA13statesthatforanOrdinaryHazardGroupIIdesign,aminimumdischargedensityof0.19GPM/squarefootovera
1,500squarefootdesignareaisrequired.Thisequalsasprinklerdemandof285GPM.

IFCsectionB105.2inthe2006editionstatesintheexceptionthatthefireflowcanbereducedby75%butmustnotbeless
than1,500GPM@20PSI.

Soyourminimumfireflowwillbebasedonthebuildingarea,constructiontypeandifthebuildingisorisnotequippedwitha
NFPA13compliantautomaticsprinklersystem.Regardless,theIFCcorrectlygivesyouagreatdealofcreditifthebuildingis
sprinklered.Therefore,ifthebuildingissprinklered,yourminimumfireflowis1,500GPM@20PSI.Ifitisnotsprinkleredthe
fireflowis2,750GPM@20PSI.

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Yoursprinklerdemandquestioncannotbeansweredwithoutmoreinformationbecauseitsdesignisbasedonstorageheight,
commodity,roofheightandthelike.SeeChapter5ofNFPA13.

Iapologizeformyfirstanswer.Ishouldhavegonetobedratherthanprovideamorecomprehensiveresponsetothequestion
asIhavenowdone.

Greatpost! Report

Thankyoustookeyfpe.Iwaslookingatthe2003IFCandnowIdonothaveeitherthe06IFCorNFPA13handy.

FYI.Iworkforawaterdistrictandwegetfireflowrequirementsfromfiredepartments(usuallyjustonenumberi.e.2750gpm
at20psifor2hours).Then,we(useaconsultantto)performahydraulicmodeltodetermineavailablefireflowtocompare
withtherequirements,anddeterminewhatimprovementsareneededtomeettheflowrequirements.Now,Iamlookingfor
appropriatemethodstoanswerinquiriesforflow/pressureinformationfromfiresprinklerdesignersandwonderifIcoulduse
thehydraulicmodeltoanswerthesequestions.Afteralittleresearch,Ifoundoutthatthefireflowrequiredbyfiredepartment
may(not)includeademandforfiresprinkler.Then,Iwonderifthehydraulicmodelweusuallyrunisadequate.However,the
differencecouldbeacouplehundredgpm(+/).AndyesItrytoaddtheapplestothezebrastocoverallfireflow
requirements.

Then,Iconcludethatthefireflowrequirementof1,500gpm@20psiinyourcase(sprinklered)doesnotincludefiresprinkler
demand.

Also,Ishouldfindanappropriatedischargedensity(0.19inyourexample)andmultiplyitwiththedesignarea(1,500sq.ft.)to
getREASONABLEadditionalrequiredflowtoperformhydraulicanalysis(1500+285=1,785).Notethatattheverybeginning
oftheproject,weusuallydonotknowalotofdetailsaboutthebuildingi.e.proposedtenants,storageheight,etc.

Aresprinklerheadsstilldischargingwaterwhenthefiredeparmentarriveandstartthehosestreams?Frankly,Idonotknow
howtheyoperate.

Again,thankyoufortheinformation.ItisveryhelpfulandIwouldappreciateifyoucouldconfirmthatmyunderstandingis
rightorhavemoresuggestions.

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Hereismy$0.02,anditmaybeworthlessthanthat..

1stStookey:OHGrpIIis0.20/1500nobigdeal.ThatisperNFPA13:FIGURE11.2.3.1.5Density/AreaCurves.

And,asScottsaid,youfigurethe2completelyindependently.FireFlowistypicallyarequirementof1500@20psibasedon
IFCtables.Thisdoesnot,andisnotrequiredtoincludefiresprinklerdemand.

ThesprinklerdemandinthecaseofanOHGrpIIrequirement,wouldbeapproximately300gpmforsprinklers(0.2*1500)+
250gpmhoseallowanceifhydrantsaretakenfromthesupplyasisthecaseinmostinstallations.

Inordertodothefiresprinklersystemcalculations,thedesignerisgoingtowantastaticpressureinthelines,thenaresidual
pressureatsomeflowrate.Forexample,youmayhave80psistaticpressure,whiledroppingto50psiwhenflowing1500
gpm.Thatiswhatthesprinklerguywouldwanttodohis/hercalculations.

Ihopethatmakessomesenseandaddstoyourclarification.

Also,yes,sprinklerheadsarestilldischargingwhentheFDarrives.Thesprinklersthathaveactivatedduetoheat(NOTEVERY
SPRINKLERINTHEBUILDING)willbeflowingwateruntilthesupplyisexhaustedorthecontrolvalveonthesystemisshut
downessentiallyexhaustingthesupply.

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NTTT:

Justrememberthatfireflowisindependantofthesprinklerdemand.Generallyspeaking,fireflowis>sprinklerdemand.The
exceptionissomethinglikeaflammableliquidwarehouseoracetylenechargingplant.Thesecanhavesprinklerdemandson

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theorderof2,500to3,000GPM.Iamalsoawareofsomeaircraftrepairhangerswithhydraulicdemandsontheorderof
5,000GPM.Thesearefairlyrare.

TheexampleIused(andthanksTravisforcorrectingme)isprobablytypicalforabout75%ofthebuildingsyoumayseein
yourcommunity.Theother25%Iwouldestimaterequirelargersprinklerdemandsbecauseoftheirstorageheights.Usinga
conservativeNFPA13sprinklerdesignbasedontheuseofESFRsprinklers(125GPM/sprinklerx12sprinklers)+500gallons
forhosestreams,Icalculatedasprinklerdemandof2,285GPM.

SoTravis,haveyoufoundwhereyouaregoingtoshopforyourlittlepieceofTexastranquility?

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stookeyfpe&Travis:

Thankyouverymuch!

IthinkIamconfusedabouttheword"hosestreams"andhowyoucameupwith2,285gpm.Isit1500gpmfireflow+
0.19x1500sprinklerdemand+500hosestreams?

Waterusedtoextinguishfireinasprinkleredbuildingconsistsof:

1.Fireflow,forfirehosestreamsconnectedfromhydrantsaroundthebuilding?,obtainedfromIFCtable,2750gpmreduced
to1500gpmintheaboveexample.

2.Sprinklersandhoseallowanceboostingthesprinklersystem?,=(dischargedensityxdesignarea)+hoseallowance(250or
500gpm).

Thesetwoarecalculatedindependently.However,thewaterdistrictwantstoconfirmthattherewillbeadequateflowforall
demands(items1and2)andIbelievethattheFireMarshalwouldwanttoensurethateverythingiscoveredforfirefighting.

DoyouthinkwhatavailablefireflowFireMarshalwanttoseeinaWaterAvaialbilityCertificate?2285gpmor1500gpm?(The
Certificateisrequiredforpermitsi.e.building,fire,etc.)Whatdoyouseetypically?

Idonotknowaboutyourbackgroundbutifyouknowofsomething,pleaseletmeknow.Thankyou.

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NTTT:

Thestatedvalueiswrong.IrecalculateditandIcameupwith2,000gpm:

[(125GPM/Sprinkler)(12sprinklers)]+500GPMforhosestreamdemand=2,000GPM.

TheFireDepartmentwillalwayswantatleast1500GPM@20PSI.However,inthecasepresentedthesprinklerdesigner
wouldneedatleast2,000GPM@20PSI.

Myexperiencewithfireflowisthatitwillalsobedrivenbythetypeofdevelopment.Forexample:

Singleormultiplefamilydwellings:1,500GPMmax
Lightcommercial:1,500to2,000GPM
Industrialpark:2,000to3,500GPM

Again,Iapologizeforthematherror.

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stookey:

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MywifeisstillsurfingaroundfortheDFWarea.Sheissetonthatarea.IhavebeentryingtogethertolookaroundSan
AntonioandAustinareas.

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NTTT

Ithinkyouarestilltryingtoadd2thingsthatarenotadditive.

Ifyouhavethenonsprinkleredbuilding..sayanindustrialpark,youmusthaveaminimumflowatanyhydrantof20003500
gpmatstookeystatedabove.

Ifyouhavethesprinkleredbuilding,forexamplewithESFRheads,youwouldneedaround1750gpm(12headsflowingat1500
gpm+250gpmhoseallowance[StookeyitisjustmydaytocoveryourbackESFRonlyrequires250gpmhose])

Now,basedonmyunderstanding,hereishowthescenarioworksandmayhelpyouunderstand....

Fireoccursinanunsprinkleredbuilding.BythetimetheFDgetsthere,thefireisragingprettyheavyandtheFDwillbe
drawingalotofwaterfromthemunicipalsupplysayat3000gpmtoattackthefire.Thatiswherethefireflowscomeinto
play.

FireoccursinSPRINKLEREDbuilding.Let'sassumethereareESFRsprinklerstostaywiththeexampleabove.Bythetimethe
FDgetsthere,thefireissuppresedorcontainedtoarelativelysmallarea(1200sqftorless)andtheFDonlyneedstodrawa
smallamountofwater(tocompletethefinalknockdownonthefire).Thehoseallowancethatismentionedaboveaccountsfor
therelativelysmallamountofwaterthattheFDwillbetakingfromthesupplyinadditiontothedemandfromthe
sprinklers.So,inthiscasetherewouldbeabout1500gpmflowingfromthesprinklersandabout250gpmfortheFDtofinish
theattack.

Thescenariosare2completelydifferentsituationstotrysoshowhowthenumbersarereallyindependentofeachother.

Hopefullythathelpstoclearupsomeofthedifferencesforyou.

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Travis:

Goodjob.Ihadthosewordsinmyheadbutyoudidabetterjob.IthinkIwasspookedbymatherrorsandyoucorrectingme
onNFPA13(notetoselfreadthestandardbeforeposting).

YouwillliketheMetroplex.JustgravitatetowardsFortWorth.Ialwayslikedthatsideoftown.

Whenyoudecidetobeginthehunt,emailmeandIwillmakeatripupfromAustinsoIcanmeetyou.Wecanhaveourown
fireprotectionPat'sPubinFortWorth.AndbuddyIdohaveagreatsteakhouseinFortWorth.Bestinthestate...mytreat.
Heck,Iwillgiveyouastarjustsoyoucanremindmeaboutitnextyear.

ComehometoTexasbrother.Youwilldowellhere...

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IamworkingonahousingprojectinNYSwith89buildingswhicharemultifamilyresidentialinscope.Basedontheheightof
thebuildingsandthenumberofstairwells,themaximumfireflowforthestandpipeswouldbe1250GPM.Isthisaddedtothe
sprinklerdemand,hosestream,hydrantflows,orwhat.Inotherwords,whatisthemaximumfireflowrequiredforthisproject?
Isitthe1500GPMmentionedforresidentialprojects,oristhestandpipedemandanaddedfactor?Thankyouforyourinput.

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thebabe:

Asstatedabove,theyareallseparateentitiesandthewatersupplyneedstobesizedtosupplyeachindependently.

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1Sitefireflowrequirements:ThisisoftenfoundintheIFCorwhateverfirecodeyoufallunder.Itistypicallysomethinglike
1500gpm@20psiatanyhydrantonpropertyforaresidentialcomplex.

2Standpipes:Youneedtofigureoutifyouhavemanualorautomaticstandpipes.Ifautomatic,youneedtobeabletosupply
100psi@250atthetopmostoutlet,250atthenextoutletand250foreachadditionalstandpipetoatotalof1000gpmfora
sprinkleredbuilding.Ifitisamanualsystem,thenyoustillneedthesameflows,buttheFDpumpertruckwillprovidethe
pressure.Thiswillcoincidewiththesitefireflowrequirements,buttheyarenotaddititve.

3Sprinklersystem:Foraresidentialsystem,assumingNFPA13R,youflow4headsatamaxof20gpmeachforatotalof80
gallons.Witha13Rsystem,youthenfigureadomesticdemandtoaddtothecommonpointofdomestic/firelines.Thismay
beacouplehundredgallons,dependingonthedomesticfixturesandtheloadsasillustratedinNFPA13R.Remember,you
onlyhavetofigure1areain1buildinggoingoffatagivenpointintime.Youdonotcalculate4headsoneachfloorineach
buildingatonetime.

Again,eachoftheseareindependentandnotadditive.

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TheStateofNewYorkusestheNYUniformFireCode,whichisthe2003editionoftheIFC.Thestatedoesnotpostallofits
amendmentsonlinesoIamunsureiftheAppendixChapteronfireflowisadopted.

Ifyoucantellmetheconstructiontypeandtheheightandareaofthelargestbuildinginthecomplex,Icantellyouthe
requiredfireflow.

Travis,yousurearerackingupsomestars...

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Stookey:

IonlycareaboutgettingtotheLoneStar

LookslikeIwillbethereinJanforascoutingtrip.IwillletyouknowwhenIgetthedatesfirmedup.

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inresponsetostookeyfpe,thelargestbuildingwillbefourfloorswiththreestaircases,andatotalareaofapproximately
700,000sq.ft.alsototravismack:ialwaysthoughtstandpipeswere500GPMforthefirstand250eachadditionalwithamax.
of1250.thanksagainforyourinputandhelp.

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thebabe:

59.1.2*HydraulicCalculationProcedure.
Hydrauliccalculationsandpipesizesforeachstandpipeshallbebasedonproviding250gpm(946L/min)atthetwo
hydraulicallymostremotehoseconnectionsonthestandpipeandatthetopmostoutletofeachoftheotherstandpipesatthe
minimumresidualpressurerequiredbySection57.Commonsupplypipingshallbecalculatedandsizedtoprovidethe
requiredflowrateforallstandpipesconnectedtosuchsupplypiping,withthetotalnottoexceed1250gpm(4731L/min).

Iwasassuming250atthetopfloorand250atthenextfloordownforatotalof500gpmflowingthroughthemostremote
standpipe.

Idon'tknowifthatmakesmoresenseorjustmakesitmoreconfusing.

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Babe:

Youdidn'tprovidemeaconstructiontype.However,yourbuildingareaandheighttellsmethatthebuildingissprinkleredin
accordancewiththe2003IBC,whichistheadoptedbuildingcodeinthestateofNewYork.Iamgoingtoassumethatitissteel
constructionandthesteelhasnofireresistance.

Basedonmydescriptionoftheconstruction,itisassignedasType2Bconstruction.Basedontheconstructiontypeandbuilding
areathefireflowis2,000GPMusingtherequirementsinTableB105.1andapplyinga75%reductioninfireflowbecausethe
buildingissprinklered.See2003IFC,sectionB105.2,exception.

Pleaseconfirmthetypeofconstructionandthatthebuildingwillbeprotectedthroughoutbyanautomaticsprinklersystem.If
not,yougotamuchlargerproblem.

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responsetostookeyfpe:thebuildingswillbeType2Aconstructionandwillbefullysprinklerprotected.isthemaxfiredemand
still2000GPM,andifso,howdoesthatbreakdown?(1000standpipe,250hosestream,etc.?)THANKYOU!

Greatpost! Report

Fireflowiscompletelydifferentthansprinklerdemand.Youaremixingthetwotogether.Lookcloselyatwhathasbewrittenin
thisthread.

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stookeyfpe:onnov.14,youindicatedthatthemaxfireflowdemandforamultifamilyres.developmentisalmostalways1500
GPM,butyouindicateamaxflowof2000forabuildingofType2Bconst.thatissprinklered.so,whatisadded?intheend,i
justwanttoknowwhatthemax.TOTALfireflowrequiredfromthewaterdistributionsystemwouldbeforthisproject.THANKS
AGAIN.

Greatpost! Report

IFC2003TableB105.1
RequiredFireFlowforTypeIIaconstructionwitharea>166,5001sqftis6000gpmfora4hourduration.Sinceyouhave
apts,IamassuminganRoccupancy.Therefore,youcanreducetheflowby25%to4500gpmasindicatedbyfootnoteAin
thesametable.

PerB105.2exception,youcanreduceby75%whereitisalighthazardoccupancyandprotectedthroughoutbyanautomatic
sprinklersystem.Therefore,youhave45004500*.75=1125.Theexceptionalsostatesthattheminimumfireflowshallnot
belessthan1500gpm.

PerIBC2003Table503,youareallowed24000sqftperfloorfortypeIIaconstruction.Youcanincreasethatanadditional
200%forasprinkleredbuildinginaccordancewithNFPA13,soyougetupto72ksqftperfloor.Itrustthearchitecthas
alreadytakenthefloorarealimitationsperbuildingintoaccount.

Goodluck.NowthatStookeyandIhavepointedyouintherightdirectionforallofthis,youshouldreallyresearchtheIBCand
IFCsectionsquotedandverifytheinformationforyourself.Afterall,youwillbetheengineerofrecordontheprojectand
needtohaveanunderstandingofwhatallofthismeans.Idon'twanttosoundmean,butIstillamnotsureyouunderstand
thefireflowvs.standpipevssprinklercalculationsbasedononeoftheresponsestoStookeyabove.

Goodluckandhaveagoodweekend.

Greatpost! Report

Howthesevaluesweredevelopedisinteresting.First,theirareanumberofmethodsforcalculatingfireflow.Thisincludesthe
NationalFireAcademymethod,theIowaStateMethodandtheISOmethod.ISO(InsuranceServicesOffice)methodisthe
basisforthetableinInternationalFireCode.

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ThevaluesIquotedonNovember14thareestimations.ThosevaluesarebasedonwhatIhaveseenoverthepast20some
oddyearsasafireprotectionengineer.Thevaluesthatarebindingarethosethatarepublishedintheadoptedfirecode.Sorry
ifImisleadyouitwasn'tmyintent.

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travismack&stookeyfpe:weusethenewyorkstatecodewhichis,ofcourse,basedontheIBC.don'tyethavetheIFC,butwill
certainlygetit.havebeendoingresearchasyousuggestandhaveabetterhandleonitatthistime.mythankstoboyhofyou
foryourinput.itwashelpfulandappreciated.wishyouagreatholidayseason.

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So,Travishasimpressedusasthegreatpoobahofsprinklerdesignandadamngoodexplaineroffireflow.I,aold,
whiteheadedAHJwillsitbackandhopemypalTravisfindshimselfaplacecalledTexas.

Thisthingcalledtheinternetisabsolutelyunique.

SoTravis,whendowemeet?

Babe,areyouhappywithouranswers?

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Stookey:

HowaboutFriday,Jan19.YouupfordinnerattheplaceyoumentionedinFortWorth?

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IstherearoomsizelimitationtoNOThaveafiresuppressionsprinkler?likeunder200sqft?

Joe

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All,

Thatsagreatthreadanditprovidesalotofinformationthatamyseemcounterintuitivetopeoplelikemyboss.

Ifthefireflowandthesprinklerdemandareindependent,whatcodefromIFCorNFPAcanIquotetoshowmybossthe
hydrantandsprinklerdemandsarenotadditive?

fyimyprojectisanewspaperpress.

Wouldreallyappreciateanyhelp.

RichardinAustin.

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Richard,

Thesprinklerdemandswilltypicallyincludeahoseallowance,andwillalsobeathigherpressurerequirementsthanthesite
firelines.Forexample,asprinklersystemmayneed300gpmat50psiatthebaseoftheriser,and550gpm@55psiatthe
citytap.Theextra250gpmisthehoseallowanceyouarerequiredtoaccountforincalculations.

Thesitefirelinedemandsarerequiredflowsat20psi.Sincemostwaterpurveyorsdon'tlikethewatermainpressurestofall
below20psi,thiswillinsurethattheFDhasadequatewatertogothroughtheFDpumpertruckwhilemaintainingthepressure
inthecitywatermains.

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Ican'tthinkoffthetopofmyheadwhereyouwillfindthequotetoshowtheyarenotadditive,butyouwillnotfindaquotethat
saystheyaren't.IfyouchecktheappendixBintheIFC,itindicatesthesitefireflowrequirements.Itdoesnotsaythatyou
arealsotoincorporatethesprinklerdemandtothese.

IhopeStookeychecksinonthis.SinceheistheresidentICCexpert,hecanlikelygiveyouabetterpointtolookintheI
codes.

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Atexeng:

YouareinAustin?SoamI.Getreadyforsomerain.

See2006IFCsectionB105.2,exception.

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Thanksstookey,

butthatisthereductioninfireflowforsprinkleredbuildings.Iamlookingforsomethinginprinttotellmethefireflowand
sprinklerflowareindependentandnotconcurrentuses.TheexceptiontoB105.2wouldleadmetobelievethatinorderto
reducethefireflowdemands,thesprinklerswouldhavetobesprinkling.

Itseemsmostofthecivilsiteengineersbelievethetwoshouldbemodeledconcurrently,butthemechanicalengineersItalkto
believethetwodemandsareindependentanddonothavetobemodeledtogether.

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Atxeng

YournotgoingtofindsuchaprovisionintheFireCode.IbelievetheclosestprovisionIcansendyoutoisthedefinitionoffire
flowinsectionB102.1.Fireflowisdefinedas:

Theflowrateofawatersupply,measuredat20poundspersquareinch(psi)(138kPa)residualpressure,thatis
availableforfirefighting.

Theimportantphraseis"firefighting."Thisismanualfiresuppressionoperationsinvolvinglayingofsupplyhoselinesand
deployingattackhoselinesforinteriorfirefightingoperations.Manualfirefightingisgenerallymoredemandingtoawater
supplywhencomparedtosprinklerdemand.Astandard11/2inchnozzleandattacklinecarriedonafiretruckdischargesa
minimumof150GPM.Conversely,asprinklerdesignedforanOrdinaryHazardGroupIIdensitydischargesabout20GPMusing
a100squarefootspacing.

Sprinklerdemandiscompletelydifferentinthatthedischargedensity(GPM)isbasedonthestoredhazardwithinthe
compartmentordesignarea.

SorrybuttheFireandBuildingcodesdon'talwaysprovideaclean,intuitiveexplanation.

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ThanksStookey,

fyiThesprinklerdemandisover2,200gpmat77psifortheoldpaperpress.

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Notthatitmatterstoanyoneelsebutme,butanyway....

IjusttalkedtothereviewerfortheFireDepartmentandshesaidthattheydonotcarewhatthefiresprinklerdemandis,they
justwanttoknowtheirlinehasenoughcapacityfortheirfireengines.Itoldhertheywillbothbedrawingoffthesameline,but
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itdidnotmakeanydifferencetoher.

Thankseveryonewhohelpedmeoutonthisone.

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anyrolledpaperstorage???ifsohowmanysqfeet

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Atexeng

Thatresponseisuncommon.Ifindalotoffirecodeofficialswholackaunderstandingofthedifferencebetweensprinkler
demandandfireflow.

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"...theydonotcarewhatthefiresprinklerdemandis,theyjustwanttoknowtheirlinehasenoughcapacityfortheirfire
engines...".

Thatmakessensewhenyouthinkaboutit.Sincethefirehydrantisthefirstfixtureonthelinecomingfromthedistribution
maininthestreet,thedepartmentwillbeabletodrawessentiallyallthewatertheyneedforthepumpertruck.Unfortunately,
theresultisthatthesprinklersystemwillgetwhateverisleftandmayfizzleoutduetothereducedpressureof20psi(possibly
lesssinceitisfartherdownthelineandsprinklersareathigherelevationthanthehydrant).Ifafraidthatifyouwantbothto
workatthesametime,youwillneedtomodelthembothsimultaneously.

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IwouldHOPEtheFireDepartmentwouldfollowNFPA13Eandpumpthefiredepartmentconnectiononthesprinklersystemat
150psi.Sinceafterallthesprinklersystemknowswherethefireisandthefiredepartmenthastofinditinthesmoke.Ifnot
wehaveaBIGproblem!

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Atex:

Youarenotconsideringtheefficacyoftheautomaticsprinklersystem.IfyoureviewtheNFPAdataforsprinklerperformance,
over90percentofthefiresarecontrolledby3orlesssprinklers.Evenifyouaredealingwithalargedemandlikeyourprinting
pressissueandyouareusinglargeflowsprinklers(let'sassume100GPM/sprinkler)theEnginecompanycanstillsupplythe
systemandtheirattacklines.

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"Thesprinklerdemandisover2,200gpmat77psifortheoldpaperpress."

Foraprintingpressthisisahugewaterdemand,whatisthesprinklerdesign?Anyflammableliquidusedonthepress?

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LCREPyouareassumingthefireisoninsideofthebuildingwherethe"sprinklerscanfindit".Ifontheoutsideofthe
building,sprinklersareessentiallyuseless.

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AccordingtotheMEP,

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"FireSprinklerSystem:Worstcasedesignflowdemandestimate:2214.9gpm@77.17psi(forexistingsystemZone1per
hydraulicinformationplacard)"

Idonotknowofanyflammableliquidsorrolledpaperinventory.

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morethanlikelyminimalflammables,butwouldaskthequestionaboutrolledpaperandisitbandedorunbanded.

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Atex:

Thissoundslikerolledpaperstorage.ThequestionIhaveistherolledpaperstorageseparatedfromthepress?Ifso,your
printingpresswillhaveafarsmallerdemandthantherolledpaperstorage.

ByseparatedImeanisa1houror2hourfirebarrierwithafiredoorseparatingtheprintingpressfromtherolledpaper
storage?

Atex,somethingisdrivingaverylargedischargedensity.AprintingpressatmostisanExtraHazardGroupIdensity(0.30
GPMovera2500squarefootdesignarea).Yougotsomethingelseinthebuildingthatneedstobeexamined.

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Idon'tknowStook,likeIsaid,theMEPgavemetheinformationforthesprinkler.ShouldI"stopthepresses"andfindout?My
scopeissiteengineering,butIdowanttomakesurethebuildingiscoveredintheeventofafire.

DidyouworkfortheAFDin1990?Youdon'treallynoticethingsuntilyouhaveareason,butIseemtobenoticingStookey
signaturesonsetsofplansaroundtheoffice.

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14yearsatAFD.That'smysignature.IhopeItreatedyoufairandrespectfully.

Sinceitisoutsideyourscopeyouhavenoobligation.YourresponsibilityisonlytogettheH2Otothesite.

Ithinkthequestionissolved.ItsoundsliketheMEPhasreviewedandevaluatedthehazardsandjustwantsyoutodeliverthe
GPMatagivenpressure.

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