Professional Documents
Culture Documents
The Village Board met in special session in the boardroom of the Municipal
Building, 138 E. Main Street, Mount Horeb, WI.
Present: Mary Anderson, David Becker, Janice DeWitt, Steve Grindle, Steve
Haroldson, Randy Littel, Don Steinhauer, Attorney JoAnn Hart
1. The purpose of the closed session was to review legal issues that may
come up during the open session and allow the Board members to obtain legal
advice about such legal issues before the open session meeting commenced.
Attorney Hart returned to advise the Board that Mr. Bierke did not wish to meet
with the Board.
Trustee Little: First of all regarding budgeting and business, we do the budgets.
Having business come into our village helps the average taxpayer. The average
homeowner, if we build homes out in the new area, chances are they will
probably have kids, and those taxes from that home, they are not going to cover
the school taxes, MATC, State and Village. By getting business in here, we
absolutely will help that tax base. While it may cost us something to begin with,
we have to look at the big picture and the long run, and I think that is what
Larry is doing. I for one do not agree with the action against our village
administrator. I find the timing of this very concerning. If there were concerns
previously and I’m learning some of these now. This is my third meeting. This
should have been taken up with the previous board, if there were problems. Why
we, the board, waited until two new members got on this board, I think that is
incredibly inappropriate. These concerns, I am probably going to learn more, I’m
sorry, I’m a little upset. I’ve dealt with numerous personnel issues in my past life.
I was an alderman in Monona for 8 years. We had personnel issues, of course.
Never had to look at a village administrator, or in that case city administrator, for
job performance to a point where we are looking to get rid of them, but certainly
with department heads. I have never gone through a process like this. I think it
is embarrassing, quite frankly, to Mount Horeb. That is all I’m going to say right
now, I may say more later, but again this whole issue just upsets me. It should
not have happened now. There should have been fair review. I’ll leave it at that
for now. (22:39)
President Steinhauer: I happy to jump in, and I’ll probably weigh in a couple of
times tonight. It appears that the bulk of the folks in the room tonight, put all
this on me. I am the village president, the shoulders aren’t huge, but we are
willing to bear some of the things that come from this, to say the least, an
uncomfortable situation. Not only for Larry, for all of us. The first thing I want to
make clear to everybody in this room. I’ve heard numerous time today, as Mr
Haroldson got some emails, vendetta seems to be a pretty good term. There is
Trustee DeWitt: I think that I agree a lot with what Steve Haroldson said. I
appreciate everyone coming I appreciate even getting the emails whether they
were positive or negative, and I received positive as well as negative. I think it is
wonderful that we have citizens that are interested in the issues and that do
come forward. I appreciate that on every issue. I don’t have any personal
vendetta, which seems to be the word of choice, but I don’t have any personal
Trustee Grindle: The emails I’ve received, I’ve read every one of them, the
phone calls I got, the ones I answered I did talk to, a lot of them I was not
home. I was a little upset with some of them as far as how they made me look.
That I was a vindictive person out to get Larry. That is the furthest thing from
the truth. A year ago we went through this same ordeal and the people who
were on the board that are no longer on the board know we had that discussion
in private session and how heated it got with Larry in the room. And at that time
it was 3 3. And was the one that had to make a decision, and I was very upset
that I got put in that position way back then, I was just on the board. Me and
Larry had a conversion after that in his office a few days later, and the last thing
I told Larry was that I was not out to get him fired. As far as communications,
yes there is times when I feel like a lot of us are left out of the loop, we are not
quite told everything we need to know in a timely manner. Is it on purpose or is
it not, I have no idea. I don’t know if there was partiality done by the
administrator to certain board members, where they got privileged information
sooner than others. My reason for getting on this board and even running in an
election was because of Larry. He actually encouraged me to, because I did have
concerns about was going on in this town. The people of my neighborhood were
concerned and asked me to run. And to sit here and go through this fashion and
how this went into the press is also very disturbing. I, as a board member,
thought that if you really love a community, we could have handled this without
quite as much press. And I think the people of Mount Horeb would have showed
up to a public meeting for Larry, as they have tonight. This could have been
public, I only needed to be requested by Larry. I did not have to go to the press.
We were given a gag order to keep our mouths shut, that is why we could not
answer email or anything else or talk to the press. We did what our attorney told
us to do. It wasn’t because we did not want to talk to you, or let the public know
how we felt or why we are doing it. It is a personnel matter which we cannot
talk to you about until it is done or a request for a public hearing. As far as
Larry’s vision, yes he has a vision, is it wrong or is it right, that is debatable. My
concern is to do what is best for the people of Mount Horeb not just business. I
am in small business also, and I will vote with my conscious for the Village of
Mount Horeb and myself. (39:38)
Trustee Becker: I very seldom wait until the last but I wanted to hear all the
serious charges outlined, made, and can be backed up and are all serious
enough for dismissal. I’m still listening, I hear differences of philosophy, I hear a
vision that every community needs desperately and that is to increase tax base
and broaden it. I hear that he is a nice guy, a people person, I ran for the board
because of Larry. Regarding evaluations, a few points about evaluations, I
decided to look through some minutes when I found myself on the board, I
found myself on the personnel committee. I wanted to look back and see what
the evaluation process was in the recent past and all I see in the minutes, and I
understand there was closed session, February 4th 2009, the performance
evaluation was approved, no issues, no problems. On March 4th there was a
reprimand given to Larry regarding the open meeting law situation. Don’t know
the results, don’t know what all came about, but it was a reprimand to Larry. It’s
not that I’m shakin’ your armor Larry I just wanted to understand that I found
some serious dirt here. July 22nd 2009 the board decided to renegotiate his
contract. We extended it 2 years to April 9th 2011 with a raise of $1,000. There
was no comprehensive performance review. As Mr. Hoffman indicated he and
Rollie and someone else from the personnel committee prepared a document. At
one personnel committee meeting we agreed that we were going to utilize that
document and we asked Larry to evaluate himself, which he did. We set another
Trustee Littel: Mr. Becker thank you, you’ve got much more past knowledge on
Larry than I do. I very much appreciate everything you just said. The person
sitting in this chair I have no problem with whatsoever in my short time. I have
also dealt with him as a citizen and have had absolutely no problems. I’ve heard
nothing that can’t be dealt with as David just said, and I’ll try not to repeat a
whole lot of what you just said, that can’t be dealt with, with Larry. I’m afraid
that what a majority of this board wants, is someone sitting it that chair that is a
puppet. I don’t want a puppet. I want to be challenged, and it sounds like this
board has been challenged and they didn’t like it. I’m sorry, it’s going to happen.
You know what else is going to happen, no matter who is sitting in this chair?
You will get material the night of the meeting, it will happen, it will always
happen. I still want to hear, and I’ll repeat what David said, I still want to hear
some compelling arguments why we should get rid of Larry. Again, I’m the new
guy, but I’ve got some experience with these issues. This is not the way to deal
with it.
Trustee Becker: I’ll respond to that. Without any just charges, the only
conclusion I can come to is personal vendetta.
Trustee Haroldson: Bottom line, I do not believe the tax payers of this village can
afford Larry Bierke’s vision.
Trustee Becker: The board sets the policies Steve, and Larry carries it out.
Trustee Becker: He went along with TIF 5, and what did he do, get even? When
we voted down TIF 5. You and I voted together, and what did Larry do? Did he
pout? Did he try some other way to needle us? Did he try some other scheme
that was going to hurt the village?
Trustee Haroldson: I doubt that any thing that I will say will change your mind.
Nothing you have said will change mine. My review, if I filled the form out like
that, would have been quite different. If Larry Bierke worked for me, in private
business, and I had spent two years plus and we had debated again, and again
the strategical action of my company. I would have said you know Larry, you
might be right, but you are right for another organization and not for mine and
lets discuss how we can separate this with reasonable terms. We aren’t going to
agree on this. I think that I am doing, in good conscious, what I think is in the
best interest of the tax payers of this village.
Trustee Becker: You are one board member and I am one board member. You
don’t own the company, you don’t run the show. You were saying if he was an
employee of your company, you don’t own the company. We are suppose to be
collective, we are suppose to be unified. You are about to split this village, and
we should at least decide to come together and evaluate Larry and give him
some direction, give him the pluses and minuses and watch him grow yet
another step.
Trustee Haroldson: Well I’ve spent two years and two months and these issues
that are in front of us today are no different than the issues back then, and I
think two years and two months is sufficient.
Trustee Becker: And I think a good evaluation would bring it to the surface and I
think we could all work to correct them. And we do it in a positive way, not to
cut the guy off at the knees.
Trustee Haroldson: I don’t know what has happened in Verona, I know their
administrator has left. I don’t know what happened in DeForest, I know their
administrator left. I don’t know what happened in Black Earth, but I know their
Trustee Anderson: Could there be a survey of all the past trustees that have
been under his administrations, the village before us, could there be a survey of
that village or city? There is a history.
Trustee Becker: I disagree, I wanted this to happen tonight. I wanted this out in
the open, I’m tired of sneaking around.
Legal Council: Yes, understandable, and it is my intention that after Mr. Bierke
speaks any board members who wish to speak again will certainly have that
opportunity.
Administrator Bierke: I thank every one of you for allowing me to do this in open
session. I do believe that having it in open session is for the benefit of the
community. And I appreciate you coming forward with your list of wrongs that
you believe are reason for termination. I’ve written a few of them down, haven’t
been able to get them all or chose not to get some of them. But there are a few
things that I believe this board is burdening onto my shoulders that are not
accurate and not appropriate. First off, after surviving, I’m assuming I’m a
survivor until the vote occurs. I’ve been through 16 different trustees in 4 years
and 2 months. 16 different bosses, 3 village presidents. And I do remember the
conversation that Steve and I had at the Grumpy Troll in front of the window.
Where I was discussing that Mr. Steinhauer and I got into a little argument over
firing Strand and the utility garage situation. And Mr. Haroldson advised me that
Legal Council: Can I ask you to just pause right there for just a minute.
Legal Council: No. Can I speak with you just briefly? I don’t know anything about
this issue. I just need to get some information before you make any further
comment. I’m sorry he will have all the time in the world…
Administrator Bierke: Why don’t I skip to another issue, I’ve got plenty.
Legal Council: I just… The only concern that I have is that I know that the board
met in closed session with another attorney, that I do not know anything about
I’m concerned…
Legal Council: I think Mr. Bierke understands my concern and that was the only
concern I was raising.
Administrator Bierke: It’s not worth it. I was just trying to bring up the point
that I’m doing what I think is being directed by the village board.
Legal Council: Just so that… I don’t want to appear to be shutting down a point
you want to make. Let me just say that the concern is that there was a closed
session discussion about a pending legal action. I wasn’t there, so I don’t know,
and can’t advise the board or Mr. Bierke about whether or not anything that
could be said here has a bearing on that litigation. And it has nothing to do with
Mr. Bierke or the boards view on it, that is the only reason I raise the issue.
Legal Council: Thank you, okay is there further comment from any board
members? Mr. Littel.
Trustee Littel: Mr. Bierke, you are a class act. This village should be proud to
have you, and if this village gets rid of you, it will be a sad day, a very sad day. I
appreciate all you have done for the village. I’ll say it again, I’m the newbie, I
didn’t have a lot of this background, and apparently there is more background
that has not been brought up that I don’t know about. I wish I did, because I
have a feeling it’s not grounds for dismissal. Nothing I have heard tonight is
grounds for dismissal. I would like to make a motion that we allow public
comment.
Trustee Grindle: Are we going to have it before or after we are done talking?
Trustee Littel: I guess we can still talk in between the motion couldn’t we?
Trustee Haroldson: I favor allowing public input for as long as the public wishes
to talk. If… we mentioned before that city council of Madison recently took until
7:30 in the morning to decide on the Edgewater building, if that is how long
people want to talk about it, I’m happy to stay, and I think they should have an
opportunity to talk. They have listened to us. There is no harm
Trustee Little: And we can continue to talk in response to anything anyone says.
Roll Call: Steve Grindle-Yes, David Becker-Yes, Randy Littel-Yes, Mary Anderson-
Yes, Don Steinhauer-Yes, Janice DeWitt-Yes, Steve Haroldson-Yes
Public comments began at 8:50pm. The following persons spoke during public
comments: Dave Hoffman, Jim Buechner, Mike McNall, Mark Rooney, Shannon
Paprocki, Pamela Lunder, Susan Tweedy, Michael Anderson, Amy Mertz, Tracy
McKay.
Trustee Littel: As it has already been stated, we did have advice from our legal
council not to talk to anybody about this issue and anything that happened in
closed session, and that is good advice. What I took from that is, that I can
certainly talk to you, I can certainly listen to you, and believe me a lot of you
called me, and I’ve got caller ID. But I picked up the phone. I got a couple of
messages that my wife took and I called back, and if I missed anybody I
apologize. I read all the email, I counted today it was up to 20, and I’m sure that
when I get home it will be more than that, and I read them, and I appreciate the
comments. I appreciate your involvement, I wish some of you would come to
some other meeting too, it’s kind of boring but it takes an issue like this to bring
a community together, but I appreciate everything that you have done being
Trustee Haroldson: I want to make one comment about the process, and I’m not
happy about the process that these sorts of things take either. But a few of you
have commented that you think potentially that the process was illegal or
inappropriate. All I can tell you is that we have followed directions on process.
There are laws that apply. Nobody had any intention of doing anything illegal, I
don’t believe we have erred in the process. It isn’t a clean, pretty process, but it
is the way the process should be handled, and I just want to put that out. To my
knowledge, we followed the process as required by Statute and law as messy
and unfulfilling and lack of information to the public that it required it’s to my
knowledge that is what is required by law.
Trustee Becker: I would agree that the process was followed. I responded no
comment. As a matter of fact, somebody said I see Dave Becker made no
comment, and I said “Yea, it made news all by itself”. But I did hear tonight that
there are other alternatives. There is counseling, there’s time and I wonder if the
chair would entertain a motion to table this issue.
Trustee Becker: I would like to make a motion to table this issue until a future
meeting.
Trustee Littel: I will second that adding that I believe it should be our duty to
fairly give Larry information regarding his performance. Coach him if that is what
is needed. Let him understand what we all want as far as his performance and
what direction I guess is what I’m saying, give him the appropriate direction
which I don’t think he has had.
President Steinhauer: So, discussion. Before we take the vote I have a couple of
things. I agree with everybody up here, I agree with probably everyone in the
Trustee Grindle: I do. Larry we had a meeting last year and I told you I would
not fire you because I had a grudge against you, and I’m a man of my word. Are
there issues with me on some of the things you do? Yes. I’ve learned quite a bit
from Dave and Mike in one year, and it was being fair. I haven’t changed my
mind, or my opinion. Do I like this process? No. Did we do it wrong? Yea. I’ve
had a week to think about this process, and yes I did talk to several people. The
people that I have talked to in the last couple of days, we looked at a ten year
plan and what my vision was for this town. And the thing is, I can’t… and I hope
that the new board members remember one thing if this does go to a vote, that
just because you are new, don’t hide behind that, and go with the flow. My wife
told me, you have to make up your mind and you have to live with it. Don’t go
with what people think you’re going to do. And I’ve thought really long on this, I
haven’t slept for over a day. And I encourage us to table this, because I don’t
want the two new board members to have to make that decision. It is not fair to
them, or the people of Mount Horeb. Can we handle this in a different way? Yes.
We had talked and argued last year about performance reviews. I’ve dealt with
unions, I’ve worked to get people fired then, but it was done by a procedure and
you followed every step. In my conscious there is no way I can support firing
Larry. And I hope the new board members don’t have to vote either.
A short discussion included that discussion had ended when Haroldson’s name
was called for a vote.
Trustee DeWitt: No
President Steinhauer: I apologize, I need to give this a little thought. I’m not
sure I agree with Steve Haroldson that it doesn’t come up until after the next
election, but I do agree with his philosophy. So my vote is to table.