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The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Military Science > Handguns
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1. .45 Long Colt Revolver 'Anyone' Can Own- Legally! (13 replies)
2. Court Upholds Second Amendment (4 replies)
3. M1911A1 blueprints (3 replies)
4. Suppressed revolver (39 replies)
5. Any experience with Derringers (6 replies)
6. "Troika" russian plastic pistol (33 replies)
7. Glock Select Fire Device Blueprints Inside (55 replies)
8. How works the deringer lock (9 replies)
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The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Military Science > Handguns > How works the deringer lock
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How is it possible to fire round afer round with only one hamm er but 2 or 4 barrels?
Also would it be worth m y while on writing a topic on use ful hand gun conversions...
keep your eyes peeled for the topic. m any gun conversions will not be posted, du e to the fact that i live in enlgand and it is
m ost probable that i can not locate certain item s like many can in the un ited states.
<sm all>[ August 31, 2002, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: piggarro99 ]</sm all>
I j u s t p o s t e d a n e x p l o d e d d i a g r a m o f a R e m ington Dou ble Derringer to the FTP - its in the uploads directory -
R e m ingtonnDerringer.gif - its only 52kb, But the actual size of the gif is too large for putting up here.
Im not sure how to go about linking pictures from the FTP, so if som eone who knows how could post a link. Then everyone who
dosent have access to the FTP can see it aswell.
Anyway - from looking at the picture, I think the postiion of the firing pin is adjusted by a rachet. It only ne eds two positions -
top barrel an d bottom barrel - I assum e the fining pin would aim at one, then when next the pistol is cocked the firing pin is
lifted to its new position by the ratchet.
That - or I saw a picture of a prototype two shot "liberator" with a sliding breech. One chamber is exposed for loading/ejecting -
the other is ready to go. I cou ld probably find the picture if anyo ne is interested.
If you want an easy to make pistol, looking at the design of a "liberator" would be a good start
O h - a n d t h e p e p p e r b o x y o u m entioned was the first (or one of) revolver - its 4 b arrels rotate, not just the cylinder as in
m odern revolvers, Im not sure exactly but from m e m ory I think it m a y h a v e e v e n b e e n r o t a t e d b y h a n d .
Dave the Rave has posted a link to a picture of the m odern version of a derringer (with 2 firing pin s a n d a m oving
strik er (the selector) between the firing pins and the ham mer).
The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Handguns > Glock Select Fire Device Blueprints Inside
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Once there click on pics for blueprints and then click again on print to enlarge for saving. Below is a pic of a legally registered
Post Dealer Sample with a folding stock. Device was made from prints at above link.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/060013.jpg
There is a 3Mb video on that site of some guy shooting a full-auto glock. Looks like a good laugh, but useless if you are at
more than about 15 feet. Even the guy in the video, who, we can assume, is doing this legally and has some practise under
his belt isn't keeping half the shots on the man size targets at that distance.
Probably be good for stopping gunfights at near point-blank, but in the scene where he engages three targets, the two he
wasn't shooting would have already shot him! Heck, the nearest could have charged him down.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/060173.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/070432.jpg
You would need a milling machine and the selector rod would be done on a lathe. By the way the simple looking selector rod is
the hardest part to make. All parts are hardened after machining.
A G30 would indeed be a Handful... And the HiCap 32 Rd Scherer Mags are gone in a heartbeat. Actually most all of the 32
fired cases are still in the air when the slide locks back for the last round. Folks that shoot it for the first time turn around and
say it jammed? Nope you emptied the mag:cool:
Basically, only look for general metal working techniques not specifically firearm related aspects; try a search for "hardening
steel" in Google.
Try to come up with a good excuse as to what the part is for such as the baffles your having made are for a muffler system on
your large scale gas models.
It isnt real hard to learn and its not super expensive to get a good basic setup that would cover gunsmithing and many other
projects.
Here is a link to a site that sells combo setups that are both a lathe and mill.
http://www.smithy.com/MWdefault.htm
On a side note, is it possible to "weld" PVC pipe? It seems like you could melt it and fuse pieces together. Also, can you buy
flat sheets of PVC material?
The glue used on PVC basicly fuses it together so in a way it welds it.
You can buy welders for plastics but i have no experiance with them so cant give any advice.
As for PVC sheets i will have to seaarch to see if they are made.
HUGE SELECTION
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/category.asp?
catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=PVC+Sheet+and+Shapes&Page=1&cookie%5Ftest=1
Useless, yes, at least for most applications. Although you could try what the chinese used with their shoulder stocked mausers
- turn in on it's side and the recoil should help you evenly distribute some lead in a room :)
And turning the gun on it's side did seem to make a better "room sweeper type weapon".
But the details are always a little sketchy in dreamland.
It was my opinion, that this weapon would be good only for assassination at very close ranges, not exeeding 10 yards.
And use the factory mags, aftermarket ones just can't keep up.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13857329_method=full_siteid=50143 _headline=-THE-MOST-
TERRIFYING-GUN-IN-THE-WORLD----AND-IT-HAS-JUST-BEEN-SEIZED-ON-OUR-STREETS-name_page.html
EXCLUSIVE
By Gary Jones
THE first fully automatic handgun to surface in the UK - capable of firing 1,100 rounds a minute - has been seized in a police
raid.
It is a Glock 18, banned from sale in the US and described as a "monster of a weapon" that fires bullets with the intensity of a
high- pressure water hose.
The ultra-light, Austrian-made gun was discovered in a swoop on the home of a suspected Yardie gangster. Scotland Yard has
issued a nationwide alert as they try to find the owner and establish how the weapon got into Britain.
A Met firearms expert said: "It's extremely worrying that such a weapon is here. I can't stress enough just how dangerous this
gun is.
"If it was fired on the streets of London by someone unused to its immense firing capability, there could be a massacre.
"Why even a criminal would want to own such a gun is beyond me. It would probably bethe ultimate in gun status-symbols."
The Yard has warned front-line officers about the discovery, which followed a a raid on a residential address in Norwood, South
East London.
A force internal report said: "This is the first weapon of its kind to be seized in the UK. It is not issued to any agencies in the
UK and is believed to have been imported from the US."
The report said the Glock can fire "armour-piercing ammunition". It has a compensation device to keep it straight during firing.
SAS officers use the gun in combat with a 19-round magazine. Israeli security forces and Germany's GSG-9 anti-terror unit also
carry it.
British armed police use the semi-automatic Glock 17, also a favourite with criminals.
America banned its import in 1986. US arms expert Walt Rauch said: "Shooting the G18 full-auto is just like turning on a high-
pressure hose,"
Det Insp Martin Ward said: "This is something of a monster of a weapon. We are appealing for anyone to come forward in the
strictest confidence with information."
I was always under the impression that Glocks were manufactured right here in Georgia, USA. In the city of Smyrna, to be
exact. I know there is a Glock plant there, and I cannot see why they would not also manufacture the full-auto as well as the
semis. They are not entirely different in mechanism. (Cobray has a plant near there as well).
On a slight aside, it's notable why Glock may have chosen a manufacturing plant in Georgia. Georgians take their guns as
seriously as all members here at the Forum do. Check out This City of Kennesaw Ordinace:
(b) Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability, which
would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households
who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons
convicted of a felony.
As to its practicality...I have a friend who was on the Scottsdale P.D. CIRT Team. These 18's were issued to them as a backup
to their MP5's. This was 1988 ish. He loved it. Dump the standard 17 rd clip in 1.7 sec.....They were taught to "sweep" with
them. Basically sweep from l to r holding the trigger down, as a room clearing technique if their main weapon jammed or was
lost or ran outta ammo or whatever.
I'm sure it would be hard to control, but w/ enuff practice you'd get the hang of it.
Sure would be intimidating to be in front of though.....
1) "It is a Glock 18, banned from sale in the US" then "America banned its import in 1986."
2) " It is not issued to any agencies in the UK" then "SAS officers use the gun in combat with a 19-round magazine."
Of course, the cops hate it when they don't have the best toys. They want the best, every time - body armour, superior
numbers, helicopters, snipers, MP5 and G3 automatics, etc. I don't mind that, but then they work to ban everything that beats
just *one* of the advantages they have.
They want to ban body armour, so they can kill people more easily, they helped get pistols banned, and they are bastards
who push for tighter rules for guns all the time, they hate the idea of anyone knowing half what they know...
Jack, the US was importing them up until 1986 as a regulated NFA weapon which must be registered for civilian ownership. In
1986, they banned the sale of newly imported or manufactured automatic weapons in the US. As for the SAS comment, I just
don't know...
As for the other three "errors," they're not errors at all; they're propaganda. I see this in every gun-related news article that I
read these days.
I agree that the full auto glock is made for concealability, I was referencing another post made by maarten221 and I was
intrigued by the thought of possible pistol fire for more than a second or two.
If you go to http://www.shottist.com/beltfed.html, you will see that the belt does not take much room and is flexible that can
aid in concealment. This is the site I was talking about in my previous post.
I somehow doubt it is possible to make the convesions discribed on that page. I just thought it was a cool idea and was
wondering if maarten221 knew about a belt fed glock that he spoke about
http://www.geocities.com/shokansunrise/
Anyone have ~$400 to test whether or not they'll fess up the goods? :D
This is not registered version of Total HTML Converter
http://www.geocities.com/shokansunrise/
Anyone have ~$400 to test whether or not they'll fess up the goods? :D
NBK,
I d avoid this fellow like the plague. I ve read about his opera tion on several firearm sites. I'll try and fin d som e thread s for
you. These kits do wo rk. You just won t get one from him. One of those snatch (your cash) and run typ es.
There was a site years ago.... I believe it was fullautoglock.com (now defunct) run out of the U.S. The proprietor sold Glock
and Beretta full auto conversio n kits. The con vers ion kits ran around $350 .00 at th e time . They worked? Yeah.... that s why
h e s n o long er in b usin ess. The kits weren t exa ctly NFA violations alone, but he g ot plenty of attention (ZO G type). Ended a ll
with a raid on his residence. Plenty of kits. Unfortunately during the search they found at least one of his kits installed in a
weap on. NFA VIOLATION. Bye, Bye fullautoglock.com. Hello sodomiteplaything .com via federal prison. I m sure they also tried
to get the names of as many of his customers as they could.
Unfortunately, even a legit operation would likely do the same things, as you can't own a retail store and sell things like this
without ATF goons smashing in your doors.
You'd have to sell it over the net using disposable websites (that'd get shutdown quickly), accepting payment in a way that
doesn't require a bank account (since that'd be seized), and live in a country that doesn't do extradition to the US.
Filesize: 745kb
With three mirrors I doubt anyone will have issues downloading it... But feel free to throw it on the FTP too, and edit that link
into my post.
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=857623
If you go to http://www.shottist.com/beltfed.html, you will see that the belt does not take much room and is flexible that can
aid in concealment. This is the site I was talking about in my previous post.
I somehow doubt it is possible to make the convesions discribed on that page. I just thought it was a cool idea and was
wondering if maarten221 knew about a belt fed glock that he spoke about
Is this what you are looking for? :confused:The prints are at the end of the file.
http://rapidshare.com/files/98965287/GLOCK_B-PRINT.pdf.html
1mb
Glad to help. Is a friend of yours :rolleyes: considering the construction of this or was it just for intellectual curiosity"
On the bright side it seems that suppressors will stay license free.
What about AOWs (Any other weapons) such as short barreled rifles, cane guns, pen guns etc? How about Full-Auto?
You need to acuire a permission to for example to modify a rifle to use a shorter barrel or similar. Varying from the type of
modification it is very easy or hellishly hard to get the permission. If one would want to install a folding stock (if the gun is
under the minimum length while the stock is folded) one would get a permission for modifying the gun with the stock (50e
fee). Then after modification the gun is needed to be sent to police for testing. There is no such class as short barreled rifle
(SBR) there is only one class the "Other Weapon".
As for full-auto, it is nearly im possible to get, even the police uses semi-auto mp5 smg's. Tough the legend tells that if you
let the big man in the blue jump suit to pound you to the "b-floor" you just might get lucky ;)
I don't know about cane or pen guns, maybe some collectors can have them.
I also want to note that Finland has the worlds 3rd most fire arms per capita, after the USA and Yemen. Suprisingly we have
the maximum of 1 to 5 gun related crimes a year. And most of these are people shooting while drunk.
One semi-recent "crime" was that some teenager insulted a skinheads girlfriend
in a shopping mall, one should note that the skinhead was right beside his girl.
Either this kid was extremely stupid or he thought that he could not do anything with all those people around. Just imagine
that little shits face when the skinhead pulled a pistol from his sleeve. :D Luckily for him (the little shit) he missed. He was
caught two days later.
And I should note that the claim about getting shot doesn't mean fatally and you will be warned (not in the form of gun
This is not registered version of Total HTML Converter
shots). There is very strict rules regarding the use of fire arms for the police. The last time someone was shot by a police was
when some skitsofrenic stabbed a ~80 years old Belgian turist to death while he was celebrating his 50th anniversary with his
wife. Tuff luck I'd say.
The stabber was shot to leg while he attempted to attack the police officer.
If had killed the attacker before he could have stabbed him he would be in jail right now for homicide.
http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=22791249
The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Handguns > "Troika" russian plastic pistol
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http://www.arsenalnoe.ru/m/1151/osa_quotegidaquot.html
The article implied that the CIA made several prototype nonmetallic guns using "a super-hard ceramic material" originally developed for the exhaust valves in General Motors
auto engines. The stuff "literally has the strength of steel," the article said. "The agency considered the material so important to national security that it reportedly had its
formula classified, thereby preventing GM from marketing it."
The gun depicted was a small automatic pistol. A magazine of bullets loaded into the handle. When you pulled the trigger, a plastic spring drove the bolt/slide mechanism
forward, pushing a bullet from the magazine into the chamber and firing it. The bullet had no case and apparently was the equivalent of a cannonball with a powder charge
behind it. The propellant ignited in two stages to keep the chamber pressure low enough that the gun didn't blow up in your hand. The bullet itself could be ceramic or
aluminum.
Two stage ignition of ammo for lowed of pressure :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .Good detail .
This "super ceramic" sounds like a fun thing, but the price will put it way out of range of people, even if it wasn't classified. Again, though, I seriously doubt it was/is as tough
as steel in terms of shock loading and stretching. And forget making a spring from it, that would have to be a plastic one, and plastic springs are rubbish. It might be good for
these "BP type" two shots, but you won't see a Glock or sixgun type of thing from it, ever, unless they use very low pressure ammo.
This link is to an electrically fired, mostly non-steel BP four shot smoothbore pistol. http://www.geocities.com/elmgrove1765/project4/project4.html
It uses BP with a .25 patched ball through a delrin barrel. The ignition system is a hot wire, in the form of a model car glowplug.
However, a single steel tube (or even 4 in a wrapped plastic outer) is far lower in the detection stakes than a full steel pistol.
+++++++
Should have made it clear to whom you were replying to, eh? Then there'd have been no misunderstanding. :p NBK
For example, in majority of the public places (like shopping malls), my folding knife in my pocket does not set the detector off. Hovewever those devices installed in
government buildings and airports, even the changes and keys in my pockets set the device off.
I remember translating a user's manual of such door type detector which contains a code to be able to change sensitivity settings. Regards
But since metal detectors do have different sensetivity settings, the key is non-metals. This presents a challenge, because the cartridge is made of metal, the projectile is made
of metal, I even heard some propellants contain metal particles (don't know if there's enough to set off alarms though). Back to square 1 eh?
When I cut it in half I found that the stainless steel liner was only .015" deep at the bottom of the grooves, and .024"-.035" think on the lands.
I removed all the carbon fiber from a section of the barrel about 6" from the chamber, on an 11" overall stub.
When I cobbled up a firing setup, the barrel burst (with Remington standard .22) right after th carbon fiber ended.
This leads me to believe that the liner is only to protect the carbon fiber from frictional wear, not to provide strength. If this is true, that a ceramic tube backed with fiber,
should be good for at least a few dozen rounds.
Anyone know enough about ceramics to give me a good idea of how hard it would be to experiment with this? I can handle the carbon fiber part.
http://users.wpi.edu/~katz/coverpg.html
These guys are working on 20mm barrels, looking to extend their life when used in gatling guns.
Not too bad for a smoothbore, except it must be short enough to fit into a firing oven. Hardest part seems to be gitting it off the mandrel.
Anyway, this has nothing at all to do with the topic, since we are talking about a pistol, rather than a .50 machinegun barrel doing 100 round bursts. Suffice to say, these
ceramic barrels are actually a ceramic liner with a steel outer, even if the steel liner is a cleverly constructed alloy that closely matches the ceramic properties. And that won't
get through any metal detector that is working!
I'm going to rip those pages into a PDF, now, as well. Seems useful to have.
It has the advantage of being a lubricant in itself, and is also very soft so if needs be could be crumbled out of your fired tube. Its also easy to machine/turn, you could do it
with your thumb nail.
You could probably preform the rifling on the core mandril if you could form the ceramic around it.
other than using a match and fuse, I can't think of any feasable system to deliver the igniting spark to the powder.
How about those sparking stones, or an impact sensitive pyrotechnic mix eg. Armstrongs mix?
On this very line, go on youtube and take a look at the "Mythbusters" team making a wooden cannon.
It seems promising, I've just spread too thin to do this right now.
This is a german site which provides a simple but effective circuit for a spark igniter which could be used to ignite the powder charge.
The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Military Science > Handguns > Any experience with Derringers
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Et Cetera, LLC .
P.O.Box 929
Copperhill, TN 37317
1 (800) 642-1600
I j u s t u p l o a d e d t h e a s s e m bly instructions:
Anyway, I now have a couple of new numbers b e s i d e s t h e t o l l f r e e n u m b e r I poste d before since that one didn't work for you:
The kits are pretty cheap in price so would be a m uch better deal than trying to build one from scratch, IMO .
I was considering getting the side by side black powder .44 derringer (com es com pleted, no FFL required) and seeing how easy
it could be converted to fire underpowered .44 spl rounds. Seems like it m ight be do-able. If not, it'd still m a k e a g o o d s n a k e
gun in original configuration if loaded powder/wad/shot/wad...
The advantage of derringers are a time proven design that is ve ry concealable and can be purchased in very large calibers for
their diminutive size.
The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Handguns > Suppressed revolver
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Ok, gotcha. The first issue is the gap between the frame and the cylinder. I've worked that out. Two parts, made of either a
strong plastic, or a decent metal (such as brass), on both sides of the frame that go over the entire gap, covering the cylinder
area, using rubber gaskets to create a seal. Accompanied with a common supressor, it should work. To keep the parts on, I
figured on making the two parts screw together at the four corners, which would make it cumbersome and make reloading time
even longer, so not totally efficient.
If you tightly seal the gap, the cylinder my also be too hard to turn, increasing the trigger pull to unacceptable levels.
If you are worried about leaving brass around, never touch the brass ungloved, and use a disposable pistol. No firearm has a
value great enough to go to prison for. Use it, then destroy it completely.
Der Mechanismus des Nagant-Revolvers hat eine Besonderheit, die ihn von fast allen Revolvern unterscheidet. Beim Abfeuern
der Waffe wird der Spalt zwischen Trommel und Laufansatz geschlossen, er ist gasdicht. Revolver haben blicherweise einen
Trommelspalt von 0,1 bis 0,2 Millimeter, durch den ein kleiner Teil der Explosionsgase entweicht. Beim Nagant bewirkt das
Bettigen des Abzugs nicht nur das Weiterdrehen der Trommel zur nchsten Kammer, sondern drckt die Trommel an den
Ansatz des Laufes, bevor der Schuss bricht. An sich stellte dies jedoch eine Lsung fr ein Problem dar, welches nicht bestand.
Der Energieverlust durch den Trommelspalt ist zu gering, um solchen technischen Aufwand zu rechtfertigen. Das Abdichten
whrend des Abfeuerns fhrte dazu, das sich der Abzugswiderstand erhhte.
I actually saw a Russian video showing the Nagant. It was done in Moscow, by members of an association of former members
of special police divisions (NKVD and then MVD). The cylinder does move forward and seal with the barrel as the trigger is
pulled and the hammer cycles to strike the primer.
The model that was demonstrated did not require a secondary action by the shooter, such as manually tightening the cylinder
forward. It was all one mechanical action initiated by pulling the trigger.
If you tightly seal the gap, the cylinder my also be too hard to turn, increasing the trigger pull to unacceptable levels.
If you are worried about leaving brass around, never touch the brass ungloved, and use a disposable pistol. No firearm has a
value great enough to go to prison for. Use it, then destroy it completely.
I guess I should have been more descriptive. It doesn't seal the gap between the cylinder and the barrel, it wraps around the
frame, with gaskets covering the open area around the cylinder to trap the gases. This picture (http://s106.photobucket.com/
albums/m278/kamel357/?action=view¤t=revolver.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1) illustrates the area the gaskets
seal off.
I've heard of the Nagant revolver, but I can't find one in any of the shops around here, and I don't like doing business over
the internet, especially when it concerns firearms. Plus, from what I've read, it's too nice a revolver to do a dirty deed, because
you probably will have to toss it
There are a couple of benefits to using quieter .22 ammo in revolver vs silencer:
-less legal hoops (or less risk of jail)
-smaller/easier to carry (particularly if .22 revolver)
-could possibly be carried legally in the USA
You can legally carry just about any handgun as long as you have a concealed carry license here in the states.
Absolutely but if you have a legal silencer you can't use it for hunting in many states and I suspect it would be added legal
liability to conceal carry a silencer (not to mention having to conceal the silencer in addition to the gun).
I suppose it would be good to seal the gap between the barrel and the cylinder and merely press firmly against whatever you
were shooting. ;)
Try "Standard Velocity" ammo. It comes really close to "a little pop", and it's still probably as suitable for whatever you're up to
as any other .22 load.
5 years, no parole...
P.S. If you have several thousand dollars to spend on a good lawyer and you don't have much of a prior history you might get
off with probation - it begs the question, what could you possibly hope to accomplish with a homebrew silenced .22 revolver
that you couldn't accomplish by other means? (perhaps something that doesn't risk bringing the feds down on you)
There was also an interesting post WW2 design for a suppressor which fitted a standard S&W Victory model.
Aside from forming a standard suppressor on the end of the barrel, it actually fitted over the barrel and cylinder effectivly
sealing the gap where the gas escapes. The useage of the unit did has some side effects, the drag on the cylinder would
eventually cause the weapon to "go out of time" and the cylinder wouldn't line up properly anymore.
And? I'm doing it because I can. If I were worried about police and feds, I wouldn't be posting on this site, and I wouldn't be
posting my ideas and potential experiments.
++++++++++
A. That's a really good idea, it had never occurred to me. For those who might not be following along, well made silenced
autoloaders of significant calibers have bolt stops which hold the bolt closed so you don't have any gas vented except through
the silencer (this also prevents shell ejection / feeding, the pistol must be manually cycled).
B. In my personal experience, they (the Rugers) are rarely seen for less than $200, but I haven't run across many rough
ones.
A. Semi-autos chuck spent brass, leaving precious evidence that can send your ass to prison.
B. You can legally carry just about any handgun as long as you have a concealed carry license here in the states.
A. True, but a lot more people have bought themselves a lot more trouble on the basis of the possession of contraband
discovered during routine traffic stops than have been caught because of the .22 brass they left behind as "precious
evidence".
C. You had stated earlier that you appreciated feedback, positive or negative. Here is my feedback; I think it's a k3wlish
project, I have no doubt that you can do it. I believe that it is foolish to dick around with a felony offense for the purpose of
unleashing an amazing 100ft lbs energy (even if quieter than average). I strongly suspect that you could accomplish the same
(or better) effect with a pillow wrapped around the top (and sides) of the revolver (and that is not a felony).
1) I have no intention of driving around with this device, and it's easily removed from the weapon
2)same as ^
3) Putting a pillow over the front and sides of the weapon is more "k3wlish", more cumbersome, and more impractical. I'm well
aware of the bolt stop feature, but that limits you to one shot, then you have to pull the slide back to re-cycle. You don't need
to do that for a double action revolver, just pull the trigger again. I think it's foolish to limit myself, and my experiments
because they are illegal. I'm going to build it regardless, end of story.
Also, a .22 is not quiet, unless you're comparing it to other rounds. It can easily be heard from a mile away on a quiet night.
The pop I talked about was considerably softer, in the range of a small fire cracker, and that's with only six baffles in a 3/8
inch diameter, 8 3/4 inch tube
Do whatever you please, but you might want to brush up on "reading comprehension".
No one said anything about putting a pillow over the front of the weapon.
Perhaps try to add something usefull instead of a bunch of shouldn'ts and couldn'ts, just my own feedback to you.
Hmmm, it appears that your "reading comprehension" skills are worse than I had originally feared.
Ignore = On
Toss the whole idea, build a case catcher and line it for sound suppression also. Also if your single shot silence idea is serious
build a single shot lock out to keep the breech closed during firing, it will help tremendously
Yes, that thought was proposed, but he ignored it (and apparently he didn't comprehend English very well).
Speaking of ignoring advice, are you not aware that necromancy is an offense punishable by death here?
Fiocchi manufactures the 7.62 Nagant in FMJ, I think? I also read somewhere, Guns & Ammo maybe that Wolf might
manufacture the round or does, I could've seen it on the 'net, I don't remember. Supposebly this round leaves the chambers
clean and no need to scrape the gunk out, that could be a good advantage. I imagine it's true, since it's all brass.
I don't know much about the Nagant revolver, but if it's anything like the Mosin-Nagant it's a great firearm.
1.Actually, it's not really that practical to have a suppressor on a revolver. I mean, how are you going to weld a piece of metal
where the cylinder is? Most of your noise is coming out of that gap. And welding a big cover over that would look clunky and
generally bad unless you were a very skilled metalworker/welder.
2. And your second reason is also false, it doesn't matter if they can find the casing or not if they retrieve the bullet from the
victim it can most definatley be identified of what caliber it was, and obviously once they found that out theres only a set
number of calibers for a revolver and well, you get the idea.
3. Generally revolvers don't jam per say since they aren't gas operated, the hammer moves the cylinder over and it's a very
simple mechanism which should not fail. The only kind of "jam" I could see wouldn't really be a jam at all and thats when the
round fails to discharge the bullet because of a faulty cap, ect.
And 4. Actually you can get semi-autos fairly cheap if you know where to look. Of course the small caliber revolvers will go for
less it's just not worth the price. I suggest if you really want a gun you can enjoy and know will do you well you do some
research. I'd take a small semi-auto 9mm over a .44 any day. Why? Because 1 its cheaper, 2 it can be concealed easier, and
3 it has a faster rate of fire.
Ah, old Igor! The most underrated weapon designer in the Soviet Union! He did so much work along this line (captive piston
weapons) as well as the AK-100. The man was a flat out genius.
Fiocchi manufactures the 7.62 Nagant in FMJ, I think? I also read somewhere, Guns & Ammo maybe that Wolf might
manufacture the round or does, I could've seen it on the 'net, I don't remember. Supposebly this round leaves the chambers
clean and no need to scrape the gunk out, that could be a good advantage. I imagine it's true, since it's all brass.
Aimsurplus ( http://www.aimsurplus.com/ ) currently has the revolvers for $79.95 in excellent condition,:eek: including
accessories. The shells are $23.95 per 50rd box or $22.95 per for 10+ boxes. :)
I have, indeed seen a demonstration of this myself and can attest to it's functionality. It worked well with a .22 that was no
great feat. But it did work with a .40 and a revolver and that I thought was impressive. This is really no different that holding a
pillow over a weapon IMO. The "fold" was a big deal back in the 80's because it WAS supposed to be a "secret". but in reality
as soon as the gun-show crowd got it.....everyone knew about it.
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The strayations along the bullet are different if fired through a silenced weapon, and of a certain pattern if from a revolver. I
have seen examples of both in my lab. From those details any good ballistics researcher would tell the cops to look for a
silenced revolver of a certain caliber. Now how many of those do you think exist? Thats right, not many. I once dreamt of a
way to make ballistics negligible; all you have to do is go to an antiques shop and buy your self a flintlock pistol, or you can
go to any gun show or western festival. In my dream, if you used such a weapon, since the make of the gun was created
before ballistics came into being, the bullet would not only be unrecognizable, but also untraceable.
P.S. it's downright simple to make a silencer for an antique with no moving parts than for a modern weapon.
But just for the record, I disapprove of this project in it's entirety, not only on principle, but in it's unnecessity.
The strayations along the bullet are different if fired through a silenced weapon, and of a certain pattern if from a revolver. I
have seen examples of both in my lab. From those details any good ballistics researcher would tell the cops to look for a
silenced revolver of a certain caliber. Now how many of those do you think exist? Thats right, not many. I once dreamt of a
way to make ballistics negligible; all you have to do is go to an antiques shop and buy your self a flintlock pistol, or you can
go to any gun show or western festival. In my dream, if you used such a weapon, since the make of the gun was created
before ballistics came into being, the bullet would not only be unrecognizable, but also untraceable.
P.S. it's downright simple to make a silencer for an antique with no moving parts than for a modern weapon.
But just for the record, I disapprove of this project in it's entirety, not only on principle, but in it's unnecessity.
Well, as already discussed in this thread, the Nagant was available during that time period, so the technology was available.
Why would using a silenced revolver bring the cops to your door faster than using a silenced auto or single-shot?
Regular Gun? The revolver was around long before the autos. And why would you not also dispose of a revolver?
Most every revolver out there could be fitted with a silencer, it may not be as efficient as an auto or single-shot, but it would
still be considered a silenced firearm.
I'm going to forego any discussion on the antiques other than a Flintlock is going to have pan flash, noise, tons of BP smoke,
useless in the rain , expensive, unreliable etc.
As to the ballistics the bore can be drilled out either pre or post use(Thus destrying any ballistics) a barrel liner installed, a
replacement barrel installed etc.
Another item, most silencer plans I have seen for a revolver are of a slip on nature, requiring little or no modification to the
gun. Most autos require either modifying the barrels muzzle and/or replacing with a threaded muzzle barrel. An automatic with
a threaded barrel would automatically(no pun intended) draw a cops attention :(if he were looking for a silenced weapon. The
revolver would show no evidence of having ever been silenced
P.S. The only antique firearm I can think of with no moving parts is a hand cannon.
If you disapprove of topics such as this then why are you posting here? It's my understanding that the forum is for the
discussion of expolsives & weapons and related subjects, wether of a legal or of a "Dark" nature (Totally hypothetically of
course):)
I wasn't even going to bring this up because I was sure someone else was at some point...... but there is a "fold" for a towel
(yes, like Origami) that was very common in the 1980's and was first demonstrated in various military units. It will effectively
suppress most weapons for a few rounds (until the towel rips up). Basically, it's the flag fold but has a deeper start to it.
I have, indeed seen a demonstration of this myself and can attest to it's functionality. It worked well with a .22 that was no
great feat. But it did work with a .40 and a revolver and that I thought was impressive. This is really no different that holding a
pillow over a weapon IMO. The "fold" was a big deal back in the 80's because it WAS supposed to be a "secret". but in reality
as soon as the gun-show crowd got it.....everyone knew about it.
Do you happen to have any reference material as to this? When used with the revolver did you fold it different or just shove
the pistol further up into the fold to silence the escaping gas?
As for the Nagant, it's not a particularly oustanding weapon, performance wise, but even that will give you some problems with
supressor attatchment. True, it's a plain round barrel, making it easier to thread, but you have to cut the threads with a lathe
to get them big & deep enough to effectively retain the "can." Fine threads will easily strip and let the supressor go flying off.
That's why you see such coarse threads on a MAC-10, H&K SOCOM etc.
There used to be a little doodad you could buy in the back pages of Shotgun News, Soldier of Fortune et al, which would
attatch a 2 liter soda bottle to a 1911 Colt & clones which worked pretty damned well, for about 10 rounds. The trick was to cut
off half of the hemispherical bottom and stretch a piece of inner tube over the hole, making sure that the rubber sheet was
big enough to hold it onto the bottle with a hose clamp. The thing was very effective, due to the internal volume, and it was
light enough to let the mechanism cycle completely. There was also an "X" shaped hole in the middle of the rubber sheet, to
act as a wipe and also to keep the precursor blast and other gases from getting out ahead of the bullet.
If you must do something nasty with a "silencer," my advice is to shoot the biggest fucking bullet you can throw subsonically,
and that means 230gr, 45ACP. Almost anything else has to be downloaded to subsonic velocities and, since it'll doubtless be
smaller, this means it'll packing less KE.
And since most people on this forum (and I include myself) are a bunch of goddamned cheapskates, might I suggest that you
hit some garage sales, flea markets etc and pick up a cheap, bolt action .22 for 30 or 40 bucks, and get yourself a box of CB
caps. They're marginally louder than a squirrel fart, and hit with much more authority than a .22 pellet gun. In fact, Aguila. a
Mexican company with all kinds of trick ammo, makes several varieties of CBs, including one, called the Sniper Sub-Sonic
(SSS), that delivers 120 ft.lbs. of KE at 100 yards! A solid hit with one of these in the Mastoid Process, (that's the heavy bone
behind the ear) will usually spall the bone, sending chips & splinters into the Auditory Cortex, the Visual Cortex, the Medulla
Oblongata and the Carotid Artery. This means your oh-so-deserving target will be deaf, blind & paralyzed before they even hit
the ground, and Brain Dead about 15 seconds later.
Accuracy? I once put an entire 100 round box of CCI Maxi CBs (CB loads in long rifle cases) through the same beer can at 50
yards through iron sights with a 10-22. I had to operate the action by hand, though, since they lacked the power to completely
cycle it.
And if you ever get a chance to attend the American Defense Industrial Association (ADIA) small arms conference, DO IT! On
the last day, they load everyone onto buses and take them to a military range where they have all kinds of cool demos. One
year, in addition to beating up an old BMP with a MK19, I got to fire a 10mm H&K MP-5 with an integral supressor. This was at
Camp Bulliss, north of San Antonio. There were plywood silouhettes lined up both across and deep. After a brief checkout from
the H&K rep, I let rip on one of the targets. Big grins. Then I switched to semi, and made a nice smiley face on the head, a' la
Mel Gibson. I Wrapped things up by switching back to full auto, and then cutting the head off. More grins & giggles.
I asked the rep why a 10? He said it was bigger than a nine. I said yeah, but the 10 was designed as a real hotrod, so they
must've had to download these rounds considerably. Why not just go with the .45 ACP? When you're velocity-limited, the KE
lives over on the MASS side of the equation. He said it had primarily to do with fear of recoil, but I don't see how it'll make
much difference in a submachine gun. It's all acedemic, anyway; they'll make one in whatever auto pistol caliber you want.
A real basic "silencer" you can make begins with an Aluminum tube about 6" long and 1 1/2" in diameter. Then you'll need
some freeze plugs that'll just slide into the tube. Drill 3/8" holes in the center of all the freeze plugs. Fabricate an adapter that
will slide tightly onto your barrel (this is for a .22 with a round BBL). Drill holes (at least 3) radially into the adapter and tap for
set screws (Helicoils would be a good option here). Drop in as many baffles (plugs) as will fit in the tube while still leaving
enough room for A) sliding almost down to the set screws while keeping the baffles from rattling loose and, B) still having
about 1/8" of tubing extending beyond the plugs. You want the radiused ends of the plugs facing toward the gun. Now take a
ball peen hammer and bend a "lip" down at the business end around the edge of the last baffle. Then TIG weld the adapter to
the tube (an alignment tool can be made by grinding about 2" of a 10" piece of 3/8" aliminum stock and sliding it through the
whole mess until the narrow end goes down the bore), fasten the completed unit onto the barrel with the set screws, and
you're ready to do smoething sneaky.
This is the standard design used by ATF informants to manufacture a "crime" for which they can collect a "reward" upon your
arrest. And yeah, it works. And you can knock off a couple more Dbs by filling it with water to the bottom of the baffle holes.
This helps dampen the shock of the muzzle blast. It was also Hiram Maxim's first supressor design, and while it's not dogshit,
It's not exactly optimum, either. But it works and it's cheap.
For some really good reasons WHY YOU SHOULD NOT DO THIS, see my second post in the "Lightning Link" thread in the
Assault Weapons section.
The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Military Science > Handguns > M1911A1 blueprints
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View Full Version : M1911A1 blueprints
I h a v e u p l o a d e d i t t o t h e F T P / U P L O AD/1911_com plete_blueprints.PDF
The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Military Science > Handguns > C ourt Uph o l d s S e c o n d A m e n d m e n t
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View Full Version : Court Upholds Second Amendment
T h e r e h a s b e e n d e c a d e s o f r e luctance to bring this to a head, by both sides of this political football. Neither side wished to risk
a defeat. If you think for one second that this is anything even close to a perm anent rulin g, think again!
Arm yourselves now and hope that your guns are grandfathered in, when and if the left gets their way.
There are wa ys aroun d the whole thing - legally, at least as thing s stand now. Thread to follow.
The Explosives and W eapons Forum > Military Science > Handguns > .45 Long Colt Revolver 'Anyone' Can Own- Legally!
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View Full Version : .45 Long Colt Revolver 'Anyone' Can Own- Legally!
P i e t t a 1 8 5 8 R e m ington Steel Frame Black Powder Revolver 44 Caliber 8" Blue Barrel
Product #: 258917
Status: Available
Our price: $288.99
R & D Drop-In Conversion Cylinder 44 C aliber Pietta 1858 Remington Steel Fram e Black Powder R evolver 45 Colt (Long Colt) 6-
Round Blue
Product #: 292272
Our price: $259.99
Others are available, as well as conversion cylinders to shoot .38 Specials from .3 6 steel-fram e d B P h a n d g u n s .
Not cheap or an ideal solution but one that is a vailable to those so inclined.
Years ago I read an article by guy who was a .45 long C olt fan. In m odern firearm s, that cartridge can be loaded to alm ost .44
Mag performance.
Loading the conversion cylinder with six fresh cartridges is quite a bit faster than pouring BP in a regular C&B revolver, ram m ing
a ball, and capping each nipple, but just as quick as that is a com plete cylinder swapout in a Rem ington 18 58 New Model Army.
Out with the old and in with a loaded o n e i n u n d e r 5 s e c o n d s . A p p r o x i m a tely $200 for the pistol and an additional $ 30 for each
extra cylinder at Cabelas.com. (Clint Eastwood does a cylinder swap towards the end of "Pale Rider" for reference, but he takes
his sweet tim e about it because he's just cool like that. LO L).
W hile a conversion cyliner will ship to your door without having to go through an FFL dealer, if a convicted felon is ca ught with
one in a BP revolver... that'll be a felon in possession charge. I looked into it a while back .
That being said, you would be well advised to approach such loads with e xtreme caution (if at all) if they are outside of the
m anufacturer's recom m e n d a t i o n s .
Even the barrels of th e Pietta and Uberti rem a k e s a r e s a i d t o b e of a lesser quality steel than is used for a modern firearm, so
o n e s h o u l d k e e p i n m ind when selecting a .45 LC round for a conversion cylinder that the bullet ne e d s t o b e m a d e o f p u r e ,
soft lead only. No jacketed rounds. I'm sure the barrels on the Arm i San Marco and other imports are the sam e.
R u g e r , O T O H, those fellows m ake a fine BP gun all the way around with the Ruger Old Arm y, but I've read rumors floating
around that Ruger will be discontinuing them, if they haven't already. Not sure if they'll be offering another model or not, but
s e e i n g t h e h u g e s i z e o f t h e O l d A r m y fan base, I would be inclin ed to believe they are getting out of the BP gun business
altogether. W h y c h a n g e d e s i g n s i f e v e r y o n e l o v e s t h e o riginal? Nobody take my word as fact on that because it's just hearsay,
though.
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I ' d b e m ore inclined to put a conversio n cylinder in a R uger OA and try out som e full powe red loads than any other m a k e o f B P
revo lver, though, to be honest.
S o m e site I ran into a few years ago offers custom m ade conversion cylinders, but I can't seem to find the link right now. I'll
post it later if I can again find it. Anyway, I was thinking that a custom five shot cylinder would allow for thicker walls between
the cham bers than a six shot, while a better steel selection and better te mper of the cylinder would be ideal. The hand shou ld
be long enough to rotate the cylinder the extra distance, I think. C ould work just fine, but I'll wage r it'd be pretty darned
expensive.
I'd want to go with a Kirst style conversion over an R &D, just because of the hinged loading port and single firing pin design,
but that's m y p e r s o n a l p r e f e r e n c e . I t r e q u i r e s s o m e m o dification to the fram e, though, IIRC. The real truth is I wou ld probably
never have the extra cash handy to even buy one if I ever wanted to. :o Too m any other projects take precedence, know what
I m ean? :)
It is-
https://www.vtigunparts.com / a b 2 2 4 0 0 0 0 E q u i c k /
I don't think I'd m odify an original gun to insta ll a conversion, though. But they d o offer a n opportunity to get the m ost from a
reproduction gun, pro viding th e m etallurgy is up to the task.
I'd say to get one if you can and then you at least have the option to convert to a sm okeless cylinder if desired, and enjoy it
as-is until then.
So then I promptly ordered the R & D Drop-In Conversion cylinder for m y Ruger O ld Arm y revolver from Midway USA. There was
a problem with the co nversion cylinder binding up in rotation after I first installed it, but I got it repaired by the m anufacturer
free of charge. I only had to pay for shipping of the gun and conversion cylinder both ways.
It was only recently that I actually got to shoot my Ruger Old Arm y with the conve rsion cylinder. I shot 30 rounds of .45 Colt
"cowboy" cartridges with it, m ade by Black Hills Amm unition. (These are what the conversion cylinder's maker recomm e n d s . )
The bullet of this cartridge is 230 grains, all-lead, and round nose flat point.
As for the shooting itself, I wo uld have to say that it was quite nice. I was able to easily hit sm all targets 10 and 15 yards down
range, and the recoil wasn't really all that m uch, either. The spent cartridges fell out of the conversion cylinder easily each tim e
I reloaded it, a process in itse lf that was fast and easy. Cleaning up the bore late r on was easy too - I used Birchwood-Casey
No. 77 Muzzle Magic Cleaner, a water-based so lvent for black powder guns.
I love this co nversion cylinder for m y R uger Old Army so m uch, I'll likely never use the original black powder cylinder ever
again.
T h e s p e n t c a rtridges fell out o f the conversion cylinder easily each tim e I reloaded it, a process in itself that was fast and
easy.This is good to hear:)- I had thought initially that unloading spent rounds would be the Achilles heel of the whole deal.
No, apparently not at all. The original cylinder of m y Ruger O ld Arm y revolver rotated and timed flawlessly before I ever got the
R & D conversion cylinder for it. I am n ot quite sure wha t was even done to rem edy the problem it had with the R & D
conversion cylinder, a s I never got a chance to speak with the company's gunsm ith after the work was com p l e t e d . T h e l a d i e s
who answer the phones at R & D told m e that that they repair problems sim ilar to the one I was having eve ry so often, always
free of charge, and that it's not a big deal for them . It took only a few days to ge t my Ruger Old Arm y back after I shipped it
off to R & D, so I gue ss they were not lying about that. Both my original and conversion cylinders work just fine now - that's all
I can say for sure.
This is good to hear:)- I had thought initially that unloa ding spe nt rounds would be the Achilles heel of the whole deal.
I'm unsure a s to why you would think so, but this conversion cylinder is n o joke. For what I paid for it, it had better not be! I
was im pressed with its workm anship from the very first m o m e n t I t o o k i t o u t o f t h e b o x . I t ' s m a d e f r o m s o m e quality and
precision machined steel, m ind you. :cool:
Too cool...
The Fanner 50's were top shelf- authentic looking, heavy and well m ade. And they would actually "shoot"! The bullet was gre y
plastic w/clips that held the bullet in a shell that actually looked like a shell. An adhesive-backed, round cap was stuck onto the
end of the bullet, loaded and when shot, the bullet would fly from the end of the revolver.
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The bullets were kind of hard to load into the shells, so one side of the pistol's grips had an indentation to put the bullet into
so you could shove the shell onto it.
Very shortly afterward s, my best Christm as present ever was given to me - a brand-new Daisy BB gun. Stran ge thing is, I
r e m e m ber the sm ell of the gun oil more than anything...
http://www.anvilenterprises.com /
I never sent them t h e m o n e y t o b u y t h e i r p l a n s , b u t I h a v e h a n d l e d a n u m ber of conversions and they are real handguns not
to be taken lightly. Even with the downloaded cowboy action am mo, a .38spl or a .45lc is powerful. I have a H&R rifle in 45lc
that will handle loads I would never put through any handgun, but even the 'light' loads are form id a b l e .
Cite a source for this, please. I believe you are m istaken. It is only illegal in the USA to convert or manufacture without licen se
for sale, not for personal use.
It IS illegal for a convicted felon to possess a BP rifle or pistol at all, which I state d earlier, but this law is at the state level a n d
not the federal level, else they too would be an FFL dea ler transferable item.