Tabitha Rollins

Dr. Rauterkus

APUSH Block A

May 27, 2016

Oral History Final Project

Time: May 25,2016 7:20 P.M.

Place: Anaheim, California

Interviewer: Tabitha Rollins [TR]

Person Being Interviewed: Thomas Nghiem [TN]

*Disclaimer. This interview is in its raw form. Instead of

putting [SIC] after every sentence I decided to just write the
interview exactly as it was perceived. The person being
interviewed speaks broken English and has very bad grammar.

[TR]: When were you born?

[TN]: I born in uh in a Saigon, Vietnam

[TR]: What year?

[TN]: Oh 1943

[TR]: So how old are you right now?

[TN]: Oh I'm 73

[TR]: Ok so first question, what was life like in Vietnam?

[TN]: Well it ugh you know the, you mean the fighting or you
talking about the-

[TR]: No just like living in Vietnam, like normal life.

[TN]: Was before when I lived in Vietnam?

[TR]: yeah
[TN]: Oh ok, I actually was you know the um the high ranking in
uh Vietnamese government and ugh also I am the you know the, the
first lieutenant in army. The reason that you know the ugh I
have to come to the United States because you know the war and
the communist. You know the fighting with the South Vietnamese
and the Vietnamese in South Vietnam is falling. So you know and
you know that um Vietnam right now is Communist. And we are
the official of thee um South Vietnam government and that's why
you know we can't live you know with them. If they get me and
they have to put me in jail and put me in the reeducation camp
like the other people, they can't escape the Vietnam, they have
to leave with them and they put all of them, about like a 100,000
officials and army in Vietnam have to go into the, the camp. And
what they call the you know, the reeducation camp and over there
people have to do the laboring free and a lot of hard work and
you know some of them get killed and some of them is you know
have to try to escape but they kill them. Ok? And um that's why
I'm lucky um hiding when I was in Vietnam. I have to hide my rank
and also that's why you know I have a plan to escape my country.
So um after Saigon fell it you know in 1975 in Saigon fell it's
on the April 30, 1975 completely Saigon is fell, is fall. And
the Communist come over and take over its South Vietnam. And I
have to plan, I have the family, that mean I have you know me and
my wife and also 3 kids. Three of the girls, the first one is um
Gmon right, and the second one it is your mom, and third one is
uh Tiann, Tiann Wong. And uh actually when the Saigon fell, and
uh uncle Richard was a pilot before.

[TR]: Really?

[TN]: Yeah, he was the captain of the pilot. And he have the uh
the order from the government to take the whole country, the
whole family to go first. That's why when the uh on the 29th of
the uh of April. Uncle Richard and three of them, you know the I
mean the um with the Susanne and Helen. They go first. They go
first by the airplane, so they leave me alone stay in Saigon with
my parents and maybe after a couple months I have to stay with
the Communists and I decided to no way I can live with them cause
if they know that my rank and they know that I am a soldier and
you know they know that you know my high ranking of course they
either kill me or they put me in a reeducation camp at least for
10 years. Ok? So that's why I have to you know plan to escape
and at that time it's very hard to you know have the plan to
leave Saigon, because they control everywhere. I have to you
know at that time it's my family little bit uh you know it's ugh
my grandma and grandpa they are business families. So they have
a little bit money. So they give it to me and then I plan with
one of the my friends we both you know pretend to do business
with the how to make the fish sauce. That's why I can go back
from my from Saigon to one of the people who lives in Boom town.
Boom town is the you know the sea shore and they have a lot of
fish there. They have the fish men village so I connected them
so they have the small fishing boat and we have to give them a
little bit money to buy the engine the big engine and they have
to build the fishing boat. And the fishing boat is long about
like ugh like about 12 uh you know 12 yards by you know 4 yards.
That small. And then we I don't think that the engine can bring
people you know people go to another country more like a big ship
or something. But you know we have no chance or have no choice
we have to do by escape. So that is why we have some money to
buy the engine to put on the fishing boat. And we buy oil,
chiding the oil and they you know the people from the you know
the fishing village they have to return to go fishing every day.
So they ask for the permission to go off the shore to fishing so
we plan for at least you know three four months and then from one
day you know we have to. When we have enough oil and everything.
We only have the experience to go on the overseas we don't know
where but we have to we have to go because you know no choice.
So you know one night I have to go buy you know the bicycle from
the Saigon to Boom town. Its alot about its about 100 or 130
kilometers equal like um 80 miles.

[TR]: Oh my gosh, you had to bike that whole way?

[TN]: Yeah bike the whole way. And then at night we have to live
in the jungle and then you know we wait until you know another
night. At least we live in the jungle for a few days. Me and my
friend, I have a friend we put money together and then the fish
men we plan to buy boat. So about you know we living in the
jungle and then second or third night and then they get me to the
small fishing boat about 3 yards long and 1 or 2 yards wide and
then they transfer me and my friend and we go to the uh fishing
boat. And when we go up there and it's only me and their family
to go together and they bring the whole family and then their
friends. We see its about almost like 58 person in the small
boat. and we have no choice we have to go. And I have to go and
we have one what do you call compass. The small one like this,
not the compass for when you go overseas just

[TR]: Just like a hand one

[TN]: Yes a small one. And we go into the ocean and we plan to go
to Malaysia. But you know we don't know how to drive the small
boat so that's why they just go up and down and we got you know
three nights on the fishing boat and the sky is rainy and we run
out almost no food and no water. Everybody the last day is you
know sharing it's only a little bit couple you know little bit uh
rice. Not cooked yet and also you know the water is running out.
We think it's almost you know died already cause you know this
the going rough, rough at sea. So we lucky on the fourth day we
saw one of the cargo ships from the uh I think that uh from the
uh Malaysia. They're shipping rice from uh maybe Indonesia to
Malaysia. So they rescue us ok, they bring us to the big ship.
So you know, and they take us to the one of the, the island it
called uh Parowan. It's over there I saw uh they are about like
you know a thousand people already there by escape from Vietnam.
They escape the Vietnamese communist and they reached there. We
are you know about like uh 58 person lucky you know they drop all
the people to live on the same island. And from there you know I
connect with Richard and the family and my wife and three kid.
They come to United States you know when Saigon fell. They go by
plane and uh they live in California.

[TR]: Already?

[TN]: Yeah, the first time I hear them say that they live in
Chicago. And from Chicago they move to California in 1977. And
I live in the camp for about 4 months and I try to connect with
you know one of my relatives in Japan. It's my sister, she
married with a Vietnamese engineer in Japan. So I connect with
uh, when I left Vietnam and I keep in mind the address of the you
know my sister. Because you know I do not know where they live,
I don't know where Richard is so I can contact with the you know
the Richard, you know in the United States. I don't know so uh I
connect with them and they I think they ask the Red Cross, you
know the Red Cross right?
[TR]: Red Cross?

[TN]: Red Cross

[TR]: Oh yeah

[TN]: They have to find out people live in United States, the
Vietnamese refugees. So they file the name. My sister ask them
oh we have the relative name like this Helen something, but
before then Helen is not the real name, my wife's name right now.
Her name is the Vietnamese. So we have to find out ok who's name
which is her Vietnamese name. And then they finally found it.
They find they live in California, they get information from them
and then give it to my sister and my sister then connected me
through Malaysia. From Malaysia I know California, ok, so then I
write a letter to them, and I ask them to sponsor for me. And I
live in the camps which was a refugee camp for four months and
they do paperwork and you know sponsor for me from the Malaysia
to um California. And um California when I came to pick me up at
John Wayne.

[TR]: At John Wayne airport?

[TN]: John Wayne airport, big, you know because, you know why
they the American government help the people , the refugee by
letting us borrow the airplane, let me borrow some food and
everything. Pay them later, that's what they say. That's why
you know why they pay everything in advanced airfare and
everything. Transport me from Malaysia to LA and from LA they
have a small plane take me from LA to John Wayne and they pick me
up at John Wayne.

[TR]: Oh ok so how did you feel about the Vietnam War?

[TN]: The Vietnam War is that, the war is between the North and
the South. And they actually you know, two countries, you know
North and South is always fighting for maybe most of the war in
1954 until 1975 is how long?

[TR]: Wait what?

[TN]: I mean 1957 is about 35 years, ok. So fighting every single

day ok, and US government try to help the South Vietnamese
fighting with the North. And North Vietnamese, it's helped by
China. So I think that the war between the North and the South
it's uh I think that it's uh an American incident.

[TR]: How do you feel about America's involvement in the war?

[TN]: I don't blame them, I don't blame United States but it you
know they're supposed to help us with the fight but not to win
but I think the war, they don't want us to win. They want us to
lose. That's why you know they withdraw all the American soldiers
out of the South of Vietnam. So leave us fighting with North. We
don't have the have no I mean no fund, no money to fight with the
north. Cause you know the north they have big country like China
help them. Weapons, money, and also soldiers too. So that's why
they conquer the south easy. So that's why the Saigon is fell.
So right you know that Vietnam is all they are a Communist
country.

[TR]: Yeah

[TN]: So I can say that the war between north and south, it's
bad.

[TR]: (Laughs) Ok um you kind of already answered but, what was

the immigration process right, like when you said you had to go
through camp and then sponsor?
[TN]: Well of course you know, we have to go through immigration
transfer from the camp I mean the island from Malaysia they have
to fill out many paper work. And people from United States have
to sponsor the people waiting in the camp. So that's why they
have to go through a lot of processing you know the papers. We
can go to the United States.

[TR]: Ok um what was your first impression of America?

[TN]: Well the first impression is that I think America is very

nice and the people is very nice and they open arm to help the
people from the refugee. Come to their country they help us a lot
of stuff they consider the whole life for the people from the
other country not only from Vietnamese but other countries. They
come and they help they open arm help from the start to right
now. So you know we have to say it's a very good impression for
the people from America.

[TR]: Did you have anyone living in America that you arrived
too, before you arrived to grandma and them? Or like did you have
anyone before even uncle Richard and them came to America. Did
they know anyone living in America?

[TN]: No, no we don't know you know any person from America. I
came to United States I know only our family Richard Susan Helen
your mom live in California. That's it I don't have a connection
before. Even I don't know nothing about how to speak the English
anyway. We learned in the school, we learned the English but we
never talked only read the book, that's it. I have no chance to
talk.

[TR]: How did you financially support yourself when you came to
America?

[TN]: Well when I live in my country and also when I come to the
Us with in my pocket I have nothing. I don't even have one
dollar in my pocket. At that time I think that uncle Richard and
Helen send me 100 bucks. They send it and I get it. They money
from them and that's why when I come here consider I have nothing
less than 100 dollars in my pocket to buy coke and food. And I
when I came here I got help from the government for the people
who first come to the US they give us a thousand for one person
and then they let me have a chance to go what do you call it,
vocational school to learn something like you know they have a
from the school and the government keep the money and train us to
do something like merchant shop. Do a grinding or fixing
something. So my first skill is to do the merchant so they
consider they pay for it to go to school for three months for me
to learn the merchant shop and after that I applied for first
job.

[TR]: So you got a job after how many months of coming here?

[TN]: It's let's see um I think after maybe 6 months.

[TR]: That's pretty good, in a factory?

[TN]: Yeah in a factory. They do they shop, do I do the grinding.

And actually in my country we didn't do anything like making like
that. My bike route is from the university of Saigon so that's
why I don't know how to do something. Hard work I don't know how
to do. To make money in the United States you have to learn some
skill. So I I try I have no chance to go to school to study. Only
three months in the vocational school that mean the training is 6
months to get a job. And you have to look for a job. Any skill
you learn from school. If you want to do like fixing the car so
you go to the classes you know the car fixing classes. If you
want to do something for grinding or you know cutting something
little you have to go to the merchant shop ok. And you do
something like um you want to fix refrigerator they have a class
for that. And the government pay for the people like the refugee,
help the refugee to learn something so they can get a job and
after the 6 months I go looking for a job and lucky I got a job
right away. I work for the company Sterling for a year.

[TR]: How was the working conditions?

[TN]: Oh the conditions are ok but for me I never do that like

hard work, so I feel like sometimes I think about my future and I
think about when I was in my country. I can't do in America. But
with my new life I have to do, I decided get something better.
First for me and my family too that mean I try to learn things.
So daytime I work in a factory and morning I go to school. I go
to computer school and I have to pay for myself. And then from
after about 6 months of computer school and I graduated and then
I look for a computer job. Better for me and easier. I try to
improve my job and bring my money to help my family.

[TR]: How did you get along with the white people?

[TN]: Americans very nice and they willing to help the people you
know when people need help they willing to help. Especially the
American government. And I think for every country there's good
person and bad people. In America there's more good person than
bad person. Sometimes you will see the bad guy they do something.
I remember one time I got angry because they tell me they little
bit jealous of what we have. We have nice car, we have something
that you know I got paid, I got more paid then them. They jealous
and they think that we make more money because the government
give it to us for free. They say something no good they say oh
you come here to get there job, you come here because the
government give you money for free. It's completely wrong. I do
it by myself by my learning. They're so lazy they don't want to
go to school. I do it to be better for myself and that's why they
stay poor. I work in a company and I try to go to school to learn
another skill to get easy job and more pay. That's for myself and
my family they don't do it so they think oh because the
government gave it to them. They jealous but very few people are
bad people. But you know American is very nice.

[TR]: So you didn't experience much racial discrimination?

[TN]: Uh I don't feel much but I know that inside of them they
little bit discrimination but they don't want to say it. You guys
from the small country, different skin stuff like that. They a
little bit discrimination I know it, you know it.

[TR]: Yeah a little bit still kind of. What was your opinion on
America after living there for a while?

[TN]: After what?

[TR]: Like after you were living in America for like a year or
something, what was your opinion.

[TN]: Well you know I think United States is very nice country.
People is very good, most of them. I feel good about America.

[TR]: This is off topic but did you know anyone fighting in the
war, the Vietnam war?

[TN]: You mean do I know?

[TR]: Like did you know someone personally fighting in the war?

[TN]: Yeah I did! Myself. And of course my friend are all

fighting. We have to fight. That's why I told you I'm first
lieutenant in army. I was never in the army, I didn't have to
shoot anyone.

[TR]: You didn't have to kill anyone?

[TN]: No, not yet. (laughs)

[TR]: Oh (laughs)

[TN]: And even I just go to the army school only ok, and then the
people who help in the high ranking in Vietnam have to go to the
army for 6 months or year and then after you go to your position.
You don't have to go shoot somebody. Most of my friends have to
go actually in the field and kill someone. They have to kill
Vietnamese, so it's bad. The war is good but fighting is bad.

[TR]: More happy question how did you meet grandma?

[TN]: Oh I met her when I was uh. When I was in high school, I
came to one of my friends. She is one of my friends sister. I
play, my friend I come to their house and I saw her and I like
her and I make friends. I met her and we marry when I get 24 and
she's 21.
[TR]: Ok um when you were first living in America did you eat
American food or traditional regular food?

[TN]: Uh actually you know when I first came to the United States
I you know I mean when I came to United States of course they
already have Vietnamese food but my first American food is a
hamburger.

[TR]: Did you like it or were you not impressed?

[TN]: Yes I do like the hamburger because I tell you the story.
When I live in my country Actually when I work young I already
work for one of the restaurant before you know the United the
army of the United come over to my country and they have the
market, special for the army. They call it PX only for GI and
they buy chip stuff. Because you know they everything you know
fruit can, flower brought to the United States for them. So you
know it from the American GI army they don't eat Vietnamese food.

[TR]: Yeah they probably don't like it?

[TN]: Yeah right and actually prefer what they call it the big
restaurant. And in there I work for the restaurant but another
country they do the flower. They order flower from the Hawaii
and they send it for some of the occasion like mother day father
day or Valentine. Any occasion in United States and the people
who work in Vietnam come and order some flowers for their mother.
They can order some stuff for their parents or their lovers. And
we mail it from Hawaii to United States for them. And actually
at that time I know a little bit of English.

[TR]: Really? Oh you just like learned it from living there?

[TN]: Uh yeah because you know my family let me go to the school

but they teach English only. I come to class I always have to
practice speak English, like ok when you first come you have to
say good morning teacher how are you so I think my family before
I don't say is rich but actually my whole family they have very
good education. You see everyone in our family is pharmacist so
actually my family is good because my parents ask us to finish
school. That's why I push your mom, I push aunt Thao to finish
school ok. Before they can do anything, whatever you want to do
you have to give me your degree. That's why your mom bachelor
degree in business and aunt Thao too. So that's why I know how to
speak English a little bit. I can work for American people who
have the work in PX so I can train some Vietnamese people to sell
to GI people in the army.
[TR]: So you ate a lot of Vietnamese?

[TN]: Yeah cause it's more better, more tasty. More flavor you
know.

[TR]: Yeah I get sick of American food too, um how did your
family adapt to America?

[TN]: Well I don't think it's easy but we have to try our best to
adapt because if not we have to live the same as American people.
We have house we have car we have everything. We have the
American life, we have to speak the English. We have to teach our
kids.

[TR]: They speak good English now. (laughs)

[TN]: Well yeah.

[TR]: What was your first memorable moment when you first arrived
in America?

[TN]: Well it I see its everything big.

[TR]: Everything's big. The buildings.

[TN]: The buildings, the people (laughs) America is big and wide
and beautiful!

[TR]: Really?

[TN]: Because you know we are from Asian. Skin is yellow dark and
short.

[TR]: Now everyone's like pale.

[TN]: But now it's dissolved, only the third generation like you
guys its all the same. You guys learn fast, you guys build fast
in United States. Like your mother and aunt Thao everybody. I can
say we are very proud, we live almost same level as Americans.

[TR]: What's the most unusual thing you experienced in America?

[TN]: My experience in America I think it's equally, that mean

that everyone is equal.

[TR]: That's unusual?

[TN]: Yeah, I think that because if you have money or you have to
go eat something you have to make the line. Not here, if you rich
you come first and I don't have money I have to stay behind. So I
think that in the US I see everybody equal. I mean that's good.
My country is total different. In some of the Asian country if
you are rich you live different. And you can if you are rich you
can do more things than when you are poor. But in the United
States if you have money you get the same thing. You know you
dark, you have to go behind me, or if you are yellow you have to
go behind me. I'm white I have to go first, that's my very good
impression of the United States.

[TR]: Did you join any organizations or groups?

[TN]: Yes but it's only Vietnamese group. Of course because

actually we have some groups to try to you know to help people in
my country. Like you know a couple years ago I go back to train
them, I help them to prepare the hearing aid. And I join a group
to help the people here. So for the old person they don't know
nothing the computer like my parents or aunt. They know nothing
about new technology. So I have lucky so I have to bring my
knowledge and help them again. So I join that group. The group is
to help people old people to know something.

[TR]: So you didn't join any fighting groups?

[TN]: No not the fighting groups. I do not go into that.

[TR]: What was the most difficult part about fitting into the
American culture?

[TN]: The American culture I think that it's good.

[TR]: It's good? You didn't have any problems at all?

[TN]: Sometimes but you know that's just minority. Most of the
culture is good.

[TR]: So would you say you like America a lot?

[TN]: Yeah (laughs) I like to live here.

[TR]: Yeah so um what was it like to leave your home and come to
a new foreign place?
[TN]: I don't know because it's hard for me to question. Because
sometimes I feel like I want to go back to my country to live.
The situation in my country right now it's going worse and worse
because the communist is dominant country. I still want to come
back just to visit.

[TR]: Oh you never go back with grandma?

[TN]: She go to do business I don't like to go back most of the

time. She asked me many time but you know I still see the country
when I live there and now it's totally different and I don't want
to go back to live there but I want to go back just to visit. To
see all the places I've been lived and go around and hang around.
So I just want to come back to visit only. And also if the
situation in Vietnam is going back to before then I'm too old to
go back. All my kids here and grandkids here. My whole family is
here so no reason to go back to live.

[TR]: What do you miss most about Vietnam?

[TN]: I miss the most of Vietnam cause that's my homeland. It

has a lot of memories, a lot of friends, and a lot of stuff that
I still remember. I live in United States for 40 years but I
live in Vietnam for only 35 years but all of my memories when I
was young was in Vietnam. So I never forget but living no. All my
memories will always be there, for here I live here because most
of family is here and I have all of you guys here. There's no
reason but for most of the memories I still have here. So no way
I can forget them.

[TR]: Yeah so that's it, that's all my questions thank you!