INCONSISTENT SYSTEM OF THOUGHT OF ALI MIRZA

[CRITIQUE ON LECTURES 154,152,158.156 ETC.]

Engineer "Ali: Mirza: of Jhelum in lecture 152 accepts that the belief of H:ad:ir VA Naz:ir is Kufr.
It may please be noted that he did not declare this belief as Shirk but as Kufr.
So according to his own standard one who believes in this belief commits a Theoritical Kufr.
So in this case it is clear that in the system of thought of Engineer "Ali: Mirza: a Mushrik can be a
Muslim. But even he does not say a Kafir can be a Muslim. As according to him a person may be
Mushrik and Muslim simultaniously , his statment is very important in regard to his views.
For cross reference it may be pointed out that the very same Engineer "Ali: Mirza: of city of
Jhelum claimed that 'Ima:m 'ibn Taimiah commited Kufr. The cleaver Engineer did not claimed
Shirk otherwise according to his own system of thought he must not be able to claim that 'Ima:m
'ibn Taimiah RH: committed Kufr. Since accoding to Enginner "Ali: Mirza:, Shirk is not Kufr unless
and otherwise a Person denies Qur'a:n as Divine Revelation, and Holy Prophet as his Final
Prophet.
But in can be seen that in the case of H:ad:ir Va Na:z:ir Engineer "Ali Mirza: claimed that this
belief is Kufr.
1]So one who believes that any Ghairullah is H:a:d:ir Va Na:z:ir then the Person is certainly a
Kafir even according to the standard of Engineer "Ali: Mirza of Jhelum.
Now one may see that there is no follower of 'Ah:mad Rad:a: Son Of Naqi: "Ali: who does not
believe that Holy Prophet is H:ad:ir Va Na:z:ir.
So is Engineer "Ali: Mirza: going to accept whether these followers of the mensioned above
personality are Kafir.
Also whether this person himself is Kafir accrding to Engineer "Ali: Mirza.
If the answer of this Engineer is Posative Affirmative then Engineer himself commits Kufr. His
Kufr is that he believes that a certain belief is Kufr yet its believers are Muslim.
If this is the case then why did he not say that 'Ima:m 'Ibn Taimiah RH: committed a Kufr yet this
Kufr could not make him a Kafir, and he was a perpetual Muslim whether he repended from this
belief or did not.
If his response is negative then he cannot claim that "Ali Mirza:'s own followers are Muslim.
Why ? The answer is very clear. If some one believe in atleast one article of Kufr he ceases to be
a Muslim. And any one who considers such a person who does consider such a Muslim who does
belief in atleast on article of Kufr is Not a Muslim.
This is a Perfect Checkmate for Engineer "Ali: Mirza:.
He cannot escape this delimma which exist in his system of thought.
Engineer "Ali: Mirza: has his limits.

2] Question:
Engineer accepts that he is of 40 lunar years, and for 31 [lunar?] years he remained as a Brailvi.
So the question is whether he believed in the articles of Shirk which The Followers of 'Ah:mad
Rad:a Barailvi believe.
If he believed [atleast one ] in them then this implies he was a Mushrik for 31 [lunar?] years.
But if he did not then his claim is false that he was a Barailvi.
Since if a person does not believe that Holy Prophet IS H:a:d:ir Va Na:z:ir [OMNIPRESENT] then
he Ceases to be a Barailvi.Since it is not possible to be a follower of 'Ah:mad Rad:a: of Bans
Baraili to deny the Omnipresence [H:-d:u:r Va N-z:u:r or H:-d:u:r Va Naz:ar] of Holy Prophet
[Peace Be Upon Him].
That is why we in general do not consider the followers of Kh:airabadi cult as Barailvi since the in
general deny this Barailic Belief Of Omnipresence of Ghairullah.
But what is about Engineer.
3] According to "Ali: Mirza: it is allowed to offer prayers behind all those people who fulfil the
followeing six conditions.
3.1] He believes in 'ALL-H as the only Deity.
3.2] He believes in Holy Prophet [PBUH].
3.3] He believes in the Finality Of Holy Prophet.
3.4] He believes in Qur'a:n as a Divine Revelation [and does not say Story of people of past].
3.5] In 'Ah:a:dith:
3.6] The day of Judgement [Qiya:mah].
Since according to "Ali: Mirza: :="If a person who believes in the above six believes if additionally
believes in any [Article Of] Shirk, he remains as a Muslim".
His Shirk cannot nullify his 'Isla:m and 'I:ma:n.
If this is assumed to be correct then any one who believes that any Ghairullah [who so ever the
Ghairullah may be] is Omnipresent [H:-d:u:r Va N-z:u:r] then the believer cannot be a Muslim.
Since "Ali: Mirza: of Jhelum claims this this belief is Kufr .
Although "Ali: Mirza: says that A Mushrik can be a Muslim and a Mu'min if he statisfies the
mensioned above conditions, but even Engineer "Ali: Mirza: does not have the courrage to say
that If a person who satisfy the mensioned above six conditions, and additionally believes in at
least one article of Kufr ,even then he is a Muslim and a Mu'min.
This means that "Ali: Mirza does accept that a Person can be Muslim and a Mushrik
simultaneously but "Ali: Mirza: does not accept that a Person cannot be Muslim and Kafir
simultaneously .

So in this case if according to "Ali: Mirza: Of Jhelum to believe that any Ghairullah is
Omnipresence is Kufr and not Shirk then all the followers of Maulavi Rad:a: of Bans Baraili
becomes Kafir ;since there is not a single follower of 'Ah:mad Rad:a: of Bans Baraili who rejects
this belief of Omnipresence of Ghairullah.
Even Ghula:m Rasu:l Sa"i:di: who is analoged to Saiyiduna: "Umar Bin "Abdul "Azi:z BY THE
ENGINER believed in the Omnipresence of Ghairullah.
So this is an inconsistency in the system of thought of Engineer "Ali: Mirza: .
4] "Ali Mirza: claims that a person whodeclares a person who believes in mensioned above six
believes is a Kh:a:rite. [Lecture#154]
He includes in Neo Kharjites Jama"atul Muslimi:n and the followers of Dr Mas"u:d "Uth:ma:ni.
But he did not say any thing about Zubair "Ali: Zai who declared a large number of Ahlussunnah as Ka:fir
though implicitly.
4] Engineer "Ali: Mirza: also tried to shew and to purport that those who fight with Kh:avarij under the
Khila:fah of Saiyiduna "Ali: enjoy those virtues which were not even enjoyed by Saiyiduna: 'Abu Bakr RD:
and Saiyiduna: "Umar RD: .
He misinterpreted these 'Ah:a:di:th: so that an audiance is inclined to believe that they are Afd:al then
Saiyiduna: 'Abu Bakr RD: and Saiyiduna "Umar RD:.
This is a great conspiracy.against Saiyiduna: 'Abu Bakr and Saiyiduna "Umar to decrease their status.
'Astaghfarullah.
The tradition that those who fight with Khavarij under the Khila:fah of Saiyiduna: "Ali: are the best of all
creation. This tradition does exclude Does Saiyiduna: 'Abu Bakr RD ETC.
5] "Ali: Mirza: says that the Sha:n of Nuzu:l is present in Qur'a:n. Some time it is found in S:a:h:i:h:
'Ah:a:dith:.
They are authorative and authentic. However "Ali: Mirza: just consider them as informations. This is a flaw
in this lecture.
6] According to "Ali Mirza: it is allowed to offer behind those who do not recite Fatih:ah behind 'Ima:m or do
not excercise Rafa" Yadain.
WE APPRECIATE THAT THIS IS A GOOD RETREAT ACT SINCE ONE MAY DIFFER FROM H:ANAFITES
YET CANNOT DECLARE THEM AS GHAIRU AHLISSUNNAH.

What is the point? Engineer "Ali: Mirza: did not condemn his former teacher Zubair "Ali
Zai.Since Zubair "Ali: Zai did not allowed to offer prayers behind Muqallidi:n. Also
Zubar 'Ali: Zai did not allowed to offer prayers behind a number of 'Ahlul H:adi:th: .
Can Engineer "Ali: Mirza say any thing about his former teacher Engineer "Ali: Mirza: namely Zubair "Ali: Zai
and his teacher "Allamah Badi:"uddi:n Rashidi?
Why he is so silent on him .
7] He said that THOSE WHO INSURRECT AGAINST Khulfa:' Ra:shidi:n are COMMITER of Bid"atul
Kubra:' .Actually he secretly tries to disgrace Siyiduna: Mu"aviah RD: .

The insurrection of Saiyiduma: Mu"aviah RD: and his Followers was an Error of 'Ijtiha:d and not an Act of
Major Heresy ['Al Bid"atul Kubra:] as claimed by "Ali: Mirza: in some of his Heretic lectures and is implied in
this lectue No:154. Silimarly the disgrace of Saiyidatuna: "A:'ishah RD: is also implied in this lecture.
Engineer "Ali: Mirza may apologize by saying that she did rejected her initial view.
So after rejection She cease to be Heretic.
The Proper Response is:=
Whether She rejected Her Initial View or not is immeterial. It was an error of 'Ijtih:ad. An error of 'Ijtiha:d is
nether Bid"atul Kubra [Major Heresy] Nor Bid"atulS: S:ughra: [Minor Heresy]..
No 'Ahlussunnah says such a thing and any one who say such a thing himself commits Bid"atul Kubra:.
This is a corrollary of Heresy of Extreme Literalism.
This extreme Literism is borrowed from Zubair "Ali Zai as it is well known that he was so literalist that he
even declared some 'Ahlul H:adi:th: Scholars as Non =Ahlul H:adi:th:.
But even he did not thought in his wildest imagination to declare Saiyidina: Mu"a:viah's Act as Bid"atul
Kubra:. Atleaast there is an 'ijma:" that it is not Bid"atul Kubra: .Thus one of several answers is that cases of
Saiyiduna: "A:'ishah and Saiyiduna:Mu"a:viah are the cases of Exception from the texts of traditions which
are presented by THE ENGINEER.
[Aproper Refutation of Engineer "Ali: Mirza: shall be presented 'Insha: 'ALL-H, in a seperate article].
8] Engineer "Ali: Mirza: actually does want to equate Khava:rij , Killers Of Saiyiduna: Mu"a:viah ,Followers,
Saiyiduna: "A:'ishah and Her Followers priot to rejection of their initial view. Na"u:dh:billah. It is clearly
implied from the lectures of "Ali Mirza: and particularly from the Lecture no 154.
This is a Great Heresy which implies that "Ali Mirza the man from Jhelum is the worst Heretic of All Times if
he is a Muslim.
9.1] He belives that The Killers of Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n RD: were Muslims yet they did
commit an error of Interpretation. In general he does not differentiate betwwen an interprtation which is an
error of 'Ijtiha:d and an Error that is a Heresy.
He thinks that it was allowed to offer prayers behind them.
But if so then What shal he say about the Killers Of Saiyiduna: H:usain RD:.
Is he allowing to offer prayers behind the Killer of Sayiduna: H:usain the the members of the army which
fought against Saiyiduna: H:usain RD: ?
IS HE GOING TO SAY THAT EVEN THEY COMMITED AN ERROR OF INTERPRETATION
After all the Killers of "Uth:ma:n RD: were worse then the Killers of H:usain RD:.
9.2]Engineer "Ali: Mirza: uses the term Yazi:diah for a number of 'Ahlul H:adi:th: scholars.
But he himself be called Mith:lu Qatil "Uth:ma:n since he does shew sympathy for them. If he was the right
to allege

that others are Yazidiah ,then others have a similar right to say that he is
the Manhaj of Killers of Saiyduna: "Uth:ma:n.

He is on the Manhaj of Killers of Siyiduna: "Uth:ma:n RD.

But Engineer "Ali: Mirza: does have some sympathy for CURSED KILLERS OF BLESSED Uthma:n RD:.
This imlies he does have a similar sympathy for the killers of H:usain RD: .
10] Muha:mmad Bin 'Abi Bakr was son of Saiyiduna: Abu Bakr , But his heresy cannot be ascribed to
Saiyiduna: Abu Bakr RD: . One who ascribes so ceaseth to be a Muslim.
SIMILARLY HE CANNOT BE GIVEN THE BENIFIT OF BEING SON OF SAIYIDUNA: ABU BAKR RD: [ 1]
Alrhough he did not killed Saiyiduna "Utrh:ma:n by his own hands and left the event he did not attemted to
save him either. He was like Yazi:d and Ibn Sa"d.
They were also sons of S:ah:a:bah yet they did not enjoy any benifit of being sons of S"ah"abah. Any how
he may have repended other wise Saiyiduna Ali Must not have made him a Prefect /Governor of Mis:r
[Mizraim in Hebrew ] Egypt [Aigyptos in Greek].
It might be the case that Muh:mmad Bin Abi Bacr did commit a great Sin AND a Great Heresy . If he did not
repend he died as a Great Heretic. Being a son of Saiyiduna Abu Bacr RD: cannot annihilate his Great
Heresy.
11] Engineer "Ali: Mirza: says that according to a tradition The tradition of Khulfa: Ar Rshidi:n and Mahdiyi:n
is obligaroty on Muslims.
If it is so then no one including S:h:abah do not have any right to dispute from Imam "Uth:ma:n RD: not even
those S:ah:abah RD: WHO are claimed to have some dispute from Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n RD: by Engineer
"Ali: Mirza: .
But "Ali: Mirza: wants to shew that Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:d did commit some errors and His Maryrdom became
a Caffarah. Astaghfarullah.
How can "Ali: Mirza: say such a thing if he accepts that Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n was among the Kh:ulfa: 'Ar
Ra:shidi:n , and accepts that the traditions and ways of Stated above Kh:ulfa:' are obligatory on Muslims?
The answer is very clear that he does not have a clear idea in his system of thought.
Actually Engineer "Ali: Mirza: does have a Heretic Rafid:ite mind and he can say such things .
13] A DISCUSION ON THE H:ADI:TH: "MAN KUNTU MAULA.........."
CLAIM OF TAVA:TUR.
Engineer "Ali: Mirza: claims that this tradition is Mutva:tir. But this is not proved with certainty. If a tradion is
Mutva:tir then any one who deny the tradition or accepts the tradition but do not accept it as Mutva:tir
immediately Kafir.
Since to Consider a Mutvatir as Ghair Mutvatir is Kufr even if it is considered as 'AH:AD and S:H:I:H.
So this is one of the so called reasons this heretic person Engineer "Ali: Mirza: declares 'Ima:m 'Ibn Taimiah
RH: as Kafir ['Astaghfarullah].
Now according to Engineer "Ali: Mirza if Shaikh 'Al Bani and Zubair "Ali Zai agree that a Tradition is Mutvatir
[Mut-va:tir] then any one who disagree with there judgement is a Kafir.
Neither Zubair "Ali: Zai nor Shaikh: 'Al Ba:ni: have claimed such a thing and this is just a new heresy
invented by Engineer Of Jhelum.

Defination of a Mut-va:tir Tradition:=

A Mutva:tir tradition is one which is narrated and reported by such a large number of narraters,reporters and
people that it is practically impossible ['Al Muh:a:l 'Al "A:di:] that the agree on falsehood or a false tradition.
Examples:=
1] The Hadith: Whoever fastened a FALSE SENTENCE on me may find his abode in Hellfire, has been
narrated by more than 62 Companions with huge numbers later on also. It is a Mut-va:tir report.
2] 'Ah:adi:th about the Second-coming of Saiyiduna `"I:sa Bin Maryam "Alaihis Sala:m, the advent of Dajjal,
those concerning certain rituals, such as, Prayers, fasts, etc., are of Mutawatir status, having been narrated
by huge number of narrators at each link of the chain of narrators.
In the defination it is neither 'Al Muh:a:l 'Al "Aqli [ Rational Absurd] nor 'Al Muhj:a:l 'Al Vuqu"i [ A Rational
Possible which implies a Rational Absurd].
It is agreed upon that if a H:adi:th: as as many narraters and reporters as there are of Qur'a:n the it is a
Mutva:tir. But the question is what is the least number of reporters and narrators. Also what are the
necessary conditions of Tava:tur. Scholars do differ on them.
Some claim that the number must be equal to or less then twenty. Some may say that the number is 15.
Some further decrease it to 10 or 9.
Tava:tur Bidh:Dh:a:t and Tava:tur Bil Ghair.
Mut-va:tir H:adith: may be divided in several types on different bases.
Is there a division of Tava:tur Bidh: Dh:at and Tava:tur Bil Ghair? Scholars also do not hold a unique view.
Some say that if n number of distict reports such that no two chain of reporters have any common reporters
and each report and the chain of reporter is undisputedly correct then the S:ah:i:h: report is upgraded to a
Mutv:atir report and tradition.
The value of n may range from 9 to 20 as according to different scholars.
Any how it is very difficult to claim that a tradition is upgraded to Muva:tir.
Verbal mut-va:tir:
it is the one which the narrators agreed on its words in the sentence. And example is the H:adi:th: is the
H:adi:th: :=
Whosoever deliberately speaketh falshood against me, let him take his seat in the fire.
Meaningly Mut-Va:tir:
It is that H:adith: which the narrators agreed on the meaning of it, but each hadith has its own unique
structue and construction of words.
Eg:= Raising of the hands during supplication.
Disputed Tava:tur.
It may be the case that scholars differ on the claim of Tava:tur.
A group of scholars may declare a tradition as Tava:tur and an other group of scholars may dispute and
reject the claim that it is Mutva:tir.

In this case it is very difficult to claim that any one who denies its Tava:tur is a Kafir.
Agreement of Shaikh 'Al Bani: and Zubair "Ali: Zai.
It Must be noted that if The two stated above persons agree that a report or tradition is Mutva:tir even then a
tradition cannot be declared as Mutva:tir.
Unfortunately Engineer "Ali: Mirza: who appearently does not declare Kh:ava:rij and some sub sects of
Rava:fid: as Ka:fir declare 'Ima:m 'Ibn Taimiah RH: as Kafir atleast for some period in his life, just becouse
Zubair "Ali: Zai and Shaikh: 'Al Ba:ni agree to disagree from him. We call it a Pseudo Tava:tur of Engineer
"Ali: Mirza:
This is the worst form of Heresy Engineered by the mind in the skull of the Engineer.
Discussion on the text of Tradition <<Man Cuntu Maula: ...........>>
NECESSITY OF INTERPRETATION
[Even if it is accepted that this tradition is Mut-va:tir it cannot be taken in its real meaning]
This tradition cannot be taken literally. Any Explanation or Commentary of the tradition that is based on the
literal meaning is incorrect. Since its interpretation is Necessary.
1]The word Maula: is used in the meaning of Beloved and not in the meanings of Chief
Executive , Master, Ruler, Orderer, Commander ,Supreme Authority, Lord, Prophet, Apostle, Substitute for
Prophet, 'Ima:m etc.
Even "Ali: Mirza: inspite of all his engineering tricks accepts it.

Even he means Cordial Friend [Literally he use the words Liver Friend instead of Cordial friend yet meaning
is the same].Also it may mean 'Cincere Friend' .
[Cordis =heart, or the heart]

2] There are two basic types of Past Tense.

a] Real Past Tense.
b] Vertual or Imaginary Past Tense.
The second type may be divided into two sub-types.
b'1] Futuristic Past Tense [Prophetic Past Tense].
b'2] Present(ative) Past Tense.
If a verb in past form is used in past tense then it is the real meaning of the word.
If A verb in past form is used in future meaning of tense it is Futuristic Past tense or Prophetic Past Tense.
If a verb in past form is used in present meaning of tense it is Present or presentative Past Tense.
Every thing is clear that the last two are the vertual or imaginary meaning.

THE WORD KA:NA /CA:NA

The worb Ka:na /Ca:na is a decptive or imperfect verb. ['AL 'Af"a:l 'An Na:qis:ah; As Nu:n is a solar letter it is
incorrect to tranliterate 'An Na:qis:ah as 'Al Na:qis:ah].
It is a verb to be. Its Infinitive [Mas:dar] is 'AL KAUNu 'AL CAUNu, which meaneth "to be".
Its past tensE Ka:na means "Was" or more literally "Did Be".
Kuntu means I was.
The Literal Meaning Of The Verse: [This is the real meaning]
Of Whom I Was Beloved ,So "Ali: is His beloved.
The meaning may be more clearlt expressed in the following sentence;" Of Whom I Was Maula in the Past "Ali: Is His Maula in the Present". The past and present tenses
are in relation to the time when these sentences and words were spoken by the Holy Prophet, IMPLYING THAT Holy Prophet was not Speaking at that time about any one of
Holy and Noble Persons of whom he became Maula latter then the period of Past that was in the Holy Mind of Holy Prophet. That certainly Excludeth not only those who
Embressed is Isla:m at the time which was in preserent tense at the time when Holy Prophet Spoke these sentences but also Near Past since the Word Ca:na / Ka:na is used
for the Far Past. [ 'Al Ma:d: 'Al Qari:b and 'Al Ma:d:i 'Al Ba"i:d]. Mathematically if Holy Prophet Spoke these words and sentences at time t0 He is Speaking for the time
p such that p+r = t0 . So this excludes the period of r since it is the difference of Far Past and Near Past [ Recent Past] and the Tradition is for the far Past and Not for
the recent past as the word Ca:na is used for Far Past.
If "Ali Mirza claims that it is just an Indefinite Past which may be Far Past or Recent [Near] Past or a general word for both and includes both of them even then it is not
certain
what the time of past was in the Noble Mind of Infallable Prophet and it certainly excludes Present Tense and Past tense which pertain to present tesnse.
When "Ali Mirza: of Jhelum Engineers a technique to Excluse Saiyiduna Mu"a:viah by using Past-Present Technique why he is not using it on this tradition. Is this is
Rationality or It is his Rafd:.

Present Past Meaning [ This is a vertual meaning]

Of Whom I Am Beloved ,So "Ali: is His beloved.
The meaning may be more clearlt expressed in the following sentence;" Of Whom I Am Maula in the Present "Ali: Is His Maula in the Present". The past and present tenses
are in relation to the time when these sentences and words were spoken by the Holy Prophet.
But this is a virtual meaning meaning and we demand the proofs for this virtual meaning since virtual meanings require proofs,evidences,indicators [Qara:'in/ Sing:Qari:nah]
and
Context. This must be seen in the context that this person whose Proper Noun is "Ali: Mirza: does use the same technique against Saiyiduna: Mu"a:viah, when he use to to
argue from past and present tenses. Whe he does not use this techni:que for Saiyiduna "Ali: RD:, Saiyiduna: H:asan RD: , Saiyiduna: Fat:imah RD: Saiyiduna Husain RD: .
Why??
Why this person use this technique for Saiyiduna: Mu"a:viah RD: .
The proper answer is that Engineer "Ali: Mirza: is a Stunch Ra:fid:i beyond any shadow of doubt.

Futuristic Past Meaning

Of Whom I Shall be Beloved ,So "Ali: is His beloved.
The meaning may be more clearlt expressed in the following sentence;" Of Whom I Shall Be Maula in the Future "Ali: Is His Maula in the Present". The past and present
tenses are in relation to the time when these sentences and words were spoken by the Holy Prophet.
But this meaning is even not taken by the apostate engineer as well so this meaning is discarded from further discussion.
Note : The verb "Was" is a Verb To be, and the verb "Is" is an other form of Verb "Be". The verbs Be and Is are present forms of Infinite " To Be",
Note to take a word/verb in form of M-D:A:R-" in the meaning of Ma:d:i: or a verb/word in form of
words/verbs, and not the Real Use,

We may Summarise as fallow:

Ma:d:i: in the meaning of M-d:-r-" is the vertual use of the

The Prophetic Past Tense of this tradition cannot be taken. There fore the choice is reduced and only first
two meanings are the only candidates .
If the Literal meaning of the Text of the Tradition is taken then this means that Holy Prophet is saying for
those people of Whome He was a Maula relatively in Past from the time he was saying these words and
sentences. He was really silent for those persons of Whom he was Maula at the time he was uttering these
Holy Sentences and Words.
This implieth that if this meaning that is the Real Meaning is Taken then nothing canbe said for those
persons of whome he became Maula latter. As the word Kuntu is generally used to indicate Far Past and Not
Recent Past and the Boundaries of the Past is not defined it is impossible to identify these boundaries with
out any S:ah:i:h: Tradition.
So this tradition excludes a Number Of S:h:abah who embraced 'Isla:m Latter.
People like Rid:va:n "Ali: Nadvi [A Rafid:i in disguise] and Engineer "Ali: Mirza [ an other person on the
Manhaj (Way) of Rd:va:n "Ali: Nadvi:] discard this meaning ,saying that this meaning cannot be taken. But
what what is the proof to discard the real meaning. The proof presented by them is just their opinion
respective opinions which doesnot satisfy the conditions of validity. A meaning of the verb/word in past tense
cannot be taken in present or future tense with out a proper proof.
Althought due to the influance of Zubair "Ali: Zai ,Engineer "Ali: Mirza Purports to be a Literalist yet he does
interpret otherwise when he wants , and as a proof we present his lecture inwhich he interpret a tradition and
apply it on Abu Talib instead of the Father Of Holy Prophet. What does this proves: . Even he accepts the
Principle of Interpretation.
LISTEN TO HIS LECTURE #98
So if he accepts the Principle of Interpretation then he cannot reject the rights of others to interpret other
wise the literal meaning. But in regard to the tradition under discussion if he rejects the literal meaning then
his rejection is invalid with out a proper proof .
If it is invalid then any argument based on the basis of interpretation becometh incorrect and invalid as a
necessary implication.
If Engineer "Ali: Mirza: does interpret and takes the virtual meaning of Presentative Past tense then this is
an INTERPRETATION with Certainty. In this case any argument from the Interpreted Meaning which is
other than the Literal [i.e Uninterpreted] meaning becomes incorrect. Since once it is proved that the Text of
a Tradition even if it is Mutv:atir deserves to be interpreted other then its Real Meaning and Necessarily
requires an Interpretation, then NO ARGUMENTATION CAN BE MADE FROM THE INTERPRETED
MEANING THAT IS OTHER THAN THE REAL MEANING. Since either a Text of a Tradition whether it is
S:h:i:h: or Mutva:tir , is not in the Literal Meaning then it is Interpretable and If Interpretable then
no argumentation from the interpretable text of the tradition is valid , neither in the interpreted meaning of the
Text nor In the Real Meaning.
Since an INTERPRETABLE Text of a Tradition whether it is Mutva:tir or S:ah:h:ih: is not Argumentable.
We Present a dilemma in form of a conundrum, since is constitute a problematic case for our Engineer Of
Jhelum in which a difficult choice is presented between two alternatives, e that are equally undesirable in
their implications and consequences..
Either the claimed Mutva:tir Tradition is in the Literal Meaning or in the Interpreted Meaning.
If it is in the former meaning then any argument for those people who embraced 'Isla:m becometh incorrect
since the Text of Tradition is ABSOLUTELY silent fothe time which was present time at the time Holy Prophet

did Speak these sentences.

If it is in the interpresed meaning then the text of the tradition becomes interpretable and an interpretable
text is Certainly not Argumentable.
Only an Irrational and Irresonable mind of a person can say that this Text of the Tradition is in the present
tense yet in its Literal Meaning.
If some one claimeth that this Text is in the past tense in relation to the time when Holy Prophet did Speak
the sentences in the Text of this Tadition yet it wa also valid for the very time when he was speaking these
sentences and words, such a claim is wrong,invalid and a Fallacy. Such an argument is rejected by the
intrinsic and esoteric nature of the argumentation.
So this tradition cannot be used by Engineer "Ali: Mirza: and his followers when they want to use it
imropoerly against a NUMBER OF S:ah:bah RD: like Saiyiduna: Mu"a:viah and Saiyiduna: "AM-R Bin 'Al
"A:s: etc.
POSSIBLE ARGUMENTS.
It may be argued that only one word is interpretable. Not the whole sentence.
The proper answer is that if only a single word is interpretable then the whole of the sentence is interpretable
since it is sufficient just to shew that a single word in a sentence is interpretable in order to prove that the
entire sentence in which the word exist is interpretable.
Finally it is likely that "Ali: Mirza: following the pattern of his former teacher Zubair "Ali: Zai may argue that
there are some Texts which are interpretable yet argumentation from their interpreted meanings is assumed
to be correct. A proper response is that this is not the general case but either special case or exceptional
case. In either case one requires proof and the burden of proof is upon the claiment and not on the
denouncer.
Also the word "Man" [translated as "Of Whom" ] is not in its general meaning.
It is in its particular meaning. One may ask the following conundrum and hope that Engineer "Ali Mirza:
understands that it is something more then a proof.
Was Saiyiduna: Muh:ammad The Last and Final Prophet Maula of Saiyiduna: "Ali: or Not????
If "Ali: Mirza: responses in Negative then he does accept that at least there is one person Of Whom Holy
Prophet was not the Maula. And that was Saiyiduna: "Ali: Himself.
If there was atleast one person then there can be some more persons. It is not a demerit for them otherwise
Engineer Of Jhelum does have to conclude necessirily that such a demerirt is equally shared by all those
persons and Saiyiduna: "Ali: is included in them , Following the style of "Ali Mirza: one Must say
'Astaghfarullah and following out Stle one may say
'Astaghfarullah and Na"u:dh:billah.
But was is the point, even the exclusion of a single person is sufficient for the loss of generaliity of the word
Man in the Text of the Sentence of H:adi:th: .
[Than completes the proof in actual form yet at present it is in the form of a conundrum].
If Engineer "Ali: Mirza: replies in affirmative form then the necessary consequence is implied by the text of
the sentence of the tradition of H:adi:th: is as follow:=
"Ali: Is the Maula: of Himself.

This result typically one that is unwelcome or unpleasant. Our beloved Engineer does have to Accept
responsibility for the negative result of his choice of reply.
Does he really accept that Saiyiduna" "Ali: was the Maula: of Himself.
For the sake of argument , let it be agreed that the Engineer from Jhelum does believe that Saiyiduna: :Ali:
was the Maula: Of Himself i.e Maula of His own self , since in the case if is reply is affirmative this result is
inevitable.
What what does this mean? The obsure result does not make any proper meaning /sense.
The result "Saiyiduna: "Ali: Is Maula: of Himself and His own Self cannot clearly expressed in explicit
words.It is Hard to make out any definite sense/meaning from this result. This result it self requires an
interpretation.
Once again what is the point. We again but it in form of a conundrum so that Engineer from Jhelum may try
to understand.
Can a Sentence of Holy Prophet implies such results and consequences????
If not then an other conundrum is as follow:=
If Sentences spoken by Holy Prophet cannot imply such results and consequences then any meaning or
sense chosen which do imply such inevitable results and consequences MUST BE WRONG AND
INCORRECT.
This is another inevitable result or consequence.
THE ALLEGATION OF MUTILATION OR TAH:RI:F [CORRUPTIPON/DISTORTION] IN THE TEXT OF
H:ADITH:
If it is supposed that there is a Distortion and Mutilation in the Text of a H:adi:th by some 'Ahlul Ha:di:th then
this may be an error of pen or printing or both. It may be a connivance from Rava:fid: in disguise like
Engineer "Ali: Mirza: and Rid:va:n "Ali: Nadvi: who was the ponier of the heretic Idea that Saiyiduna:
Mu"a:viah RD: was not the Ka:tib Of Vah:y.
[Astafhfarullay and Na"u:dhu Billah].
But this may be a Divine Avenge that they them selves accuse 'Ahlussunnah Deoband for Tah:ri:f of some
traditions .
They do not accept any Apology. In this case they must understand that they commit the same Error in case
of 'Ahlussunnah Deoband which "Ali: Mirza: Of Jhelum did commit against them.
Some time they do exceed the limit when they accuse Shaikh 'Al Hind RH: for Tah:ri:f in a Verse [Sentence]
of Qu'a:n.
If they can go to such extremes then it is very Natural that "Ali: Mirza of Jhelum can go to an extreme
against them. Giving the heretic his due This Man from Jhelum does have opened the eyes of some 'ahlul
H:adi:th: that they must not go to such extremes.
As for us we defend both 'Ahlul H:di:th and 'Ahlussunnah Deoband from such false allegations.
Any how we do say "Ali: Mirza: is taking benifits of internal disputes of 'Ahlussunnah, and the extrmists of
'Ahlul H:adi:th and 'Ahlussunnah Deoband.
We say for Sake Of 'ALL-H DO NOT BE AN EXTREMIST.

Summary:
The "ARABIC WORD KUNTU/ CUNTU means " I was" or more literally "I did be" and not
"I am" or "I do Be".
[It may be noted that Infinitive of Verb to be like Is,Are,Art,Be, Was, Were is " To Be".
The same verb Be is found in future indefinite sentences as Shall Be, Will Be and in sentences OF
DECEPTIVE AUXILARY VERBS like May be, Can be, Might Be, Could Be .
One may not neglect Would Be and Should Be etc. ]
CHALLANE TO ENGINEER "ALI: MIRZA:
"Ali: Mirza: of Jhelum Vaunts that in a debate the 'Ahlul H:adi:th: debater escaped from the debate.
Let this be supposed to be correct then the person who was the debater was not an expert in the FIELD OF
DISCUSSION AND DEBATE .

IS "ALI MIRZA: GOING TO CHALLANGE MAULANA 'IRSHA:D 'AL

H:AQQ 'ATH:RI: ON THE ISSUE AND APPLICATION OF THIS
TRADITION:
Let hope that he challanges Shaikh: 'Irsha:d 'Al H:aqq on the issue he is Vauting as a winner?
14] EXTRACTING THE RAFD: OF ENGINEER "ALI: MIRZA FROM HIS LECTURES AND HIS BELIEVE
WHICH HE IMPLICITLY STATES IN HIS LECTURES.
The believes that are followed from his lectures and do appended to) Engineer's already delivered Lectures.
Engineer "Ali: Mirza: of Jhelum actually does believe that Saiyiduna: Mu"aviah RD: and His Supporters were
equal to Kh:arijites in Heresy ['Astaghfarullah and Na"u:dh:ubillah].
How ever the cunning the enginner did not declare both of the two groups as Kafir.
How ever he tried to shew that the founder of Kh:arjism was a Sah:abi in order to equate him with Saiyiduna:
Mu"a:viah RD:.
Engineer "Ali: Mirza: frequently used the word 'Al Bid"adul Cubra /Kubra [Major Heresy]
for those who rebelled and insurrected against Saiyiduna: "Ali: .
This is not Manhaj of 'Ahlussunnah and Salaf but Manhaj of Rava:fid: .
If Mirza:'s lectures are studied microscoply raither on Sub Atomic Level it detected that he considers
Kh:ava:rij even better then Saiyiduna: Mu"a:viah, RD:, Saiyiduna: "AM-R Bin 'Al "A:S: RD: and Banu
Umaiyah. He does want to inject the Fafd: in the arteries of 'Ahlussunnah. He does believe that Saiyiduna

Mu"a:viah RD: is not better then Kh:ava:rij amd Kh:avarij are not worse then Him ['Al "Aya:dh: Billah Ta"a:la].
Some time he uses the tradition "Man Cuntu Maula...." for this purpose, and some time he uses an other
tradition " It is obligarory to follow the ways and traditions of Khufa:s Ra:shidi:n and Mahdiy:n.".
But he tries to misinterpret this tradition.
From this tradition he tries to purport and misguide that any one who insurerected against Saiyiduna: "Ali
was a trangressor accoerding to this tradition, a Heretic and a Fasiq.
What Mirza:'s lecture cannote is that even Saiyidah "A:'ishah RD: WAS a Transgressor in some part of her
life , until She repended and rejected her first view.

Al "Ayadh: Billah and 'Astaghfarullah.

But a paradox in his system may be seen when he try to convince his audiances that Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n
RD: did commit some Errors and evens some S:ah:bah RD: did disputed from his on his errors.
Now if the this Mirza's interpretation which he may term as explanation is correct then all those S:h:a:bah
who disputed from Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n RD: as according to his lectures immediately became
Transgressors and Heretic since it is implied from the [incorrect] explanation of the tradition that they
violated this tradition.
"Ali Mirza Of Jhelum did not notice that his explanation fire backs , [ since The Engineer alleges that there
errors were commited by Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n; and Engineer's Rafid:ism is unearthed when he further
alleges that the Martyrdom of Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n became a Caffarah (Redemption) for his Errors], it is
clear that he is violating and transgressing the tradition.
Now if this interpretation or explanation of the tradition is correct then Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n did not commit
any error .If Holy Prophet stated that Traditions and Ways of Khulfa:' is obligatory then Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n
cannot commit Errors other wise it is implied that even his errors are obligatory. This meaning is impossible.
So As "Ali: MIRZA: of Jhelum claimed errore he himself trangressed against the Holy H:adi:th: which he
himself presented explained;he did become a Heretic rather a Great Heretic according to his own lectures.
A CONUNDRUM FOR "ALI: MIRZA: OF JHELUM.
IF ACCORDING TO "ALI MIRZA: SAIYIDUNA: "ALI: RD: SUPPORTED SAIYIDUNA: "UTHMA:N RD : IN
THE ACTS ,EVENTS AND POLACIES OF SAIYIDUNA: "UTH:MA:N DURING THE PERIOD OF
SAIYIDUNA: "UTH:MA:N RD: THEN "ALI MIRZA: IS JUST NOT ACCUSING SAIYIDUNA: "UTH:MA:N BUT
ADDITIONALLY SAIYIDUNA: "ALI: AS WELL.
EITHER ENGINEER "ALI: MIRZA IS NOT CONSCIOUS OF IT OR CONSCIOUSLY MISGUIDING
AUDIANCES.

HIS

If according to Engineer "Ali Mirza Jhelumi ,Saiyiduna: "Ali opposed Saiyiduna: "Uthma:n on the issues
which are considered as errors the same objection of transgression is implied on Saiyiduna: "Ali according
to the inconsistent system Engineered by the engineer "Ali: Mirza of Jhelum.
Once again his cunning mind is:=
EITHER NOT CONSCIOUS OF IT OR CONSCIOUSLY MISGUIDE

ENGINEER'S AUDIANCES.

If this Engineer Engineers an other answer that Saiyiduna: "Ali: RD: neither opposed nor supported then this
is a silent agreement Saiyiduna: 'Uth:ma:n RD:.
Now if in his own period of Kh:la:fah he did not openly rejected his initial agreement explicitly this means he

was still agreeing with Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n. Thus Engineer "Ali: Mirza: does become a Great Heretic even
according to his own standard and system.

CONCLUSION
Engineer "Ali: Mirza: often accuse "Ulma:' that they multiply some modern
scholars by Zero, what what does he imself do????
He tries to Multiply all those who defend S:ah:a:bah by zero and he tries to divide Rafd: by Zero in order to
make it Infinity. In his attempt he has divided himself by INFINITY.
16]
Who are Kh:ulfa:' of Thirty Years:=
Engineer "Ali: Mirza includes only five persons in 3O Lunar years of Isla:m.
[One Lunar Year is generaly supposed to be of 354.37 days approximately. So Thirty Lunar years are equal
to 30*354.37=10631.1 days approximately. For Practical perpose a normal Lunar year is suppposed to be of
354 days and a leap lunar Year is supposed to be of 355 days. How ever it is almost certain that no Lunar
year is of 353 days or 356 days.]
He excludes Saiyiduna: Mu"aviah RD:.
They are as follow:=
1] Saiyiduna 'ABU BACR
2Saiyiduna ] "UMAR
3Saiyiduna ] "UTH:MA:N
4] Saiyiduna "ALI:
5] Saiyiduna HASAN
But there are some problems in the list.
1] Saiyiduna: "Umar Bin "Abdul "Azi:z has been excluded from the list.
He is the fifth Ra:shid Khali:fah RH:
2] He Excuded Saiyiduna: MU"A:VIAH RD:who is the Khlifah among Mahdiyi:n .
There are two types of Kh:ulfa' 1] 'AR RASHIDU:N
2]'AL MAHDIYU:N.
Saiyiduna: Mu"aviah was in the latter type of Khulfa:' .
The age of 'AL Khulfa:' WHO ARE MAHDIYU:N did not ended after Thirty Years.

The tradition of Twelve Khulfa:' doeth imply that Some Kh:ulfa:' Shall exist after the period of Thirty Lunar
Years.
[It is assumed that the counting of year begin from the first day of Saiyiduna: 'Abu Bacr RD: the very first day
he assumed the Charge of Kha:lifatur Rasu:l RD:].
So the argument that the Noble Period of Khulfa:' 'Ar Ra:shidu:n ended exactly on the thirtieth Lunar year
needs an interpretation.
As Saiyiduna: Hasan RD: did resign from the post of Kh:alifah he is not included in the first five Caliphs.
Majority of 'Ahlussunnah even do not Include Saiyiduna: 'Abdullah Bin Zubair RD:in the list of Five Khulfa:
who are Rashidu:n.
Now every thing is clear. "Ali: Mirza: is using his own reasonings and declaring all those who reject his
heretic cconclusions as Nas:ibites.
Any how Saiyiduna: Mu"a:viah is among the Khulfa:' who are Mahdiyu:n ansd not in Rashidu:n.
How ever he may be consider as a Ra:shid Khali:fah in the literal meaning and
not in the termonological meaning. The dispute whether Saiyiduna: Mu"a:viah
RD: is in the Group of Kh:ulfa:' 'Ar Rashidu:n, is in the Termonological meaning of
the Compound Term and Not In the Literal Meaning of the very Term.

A CONUNDRUM FOR THE ENGINEER OF JHELUM AND

JHELUMITES
IF KHILAFAH ENDED ON THE LAST DAY OF THE THIRTIETH LUNAR YEAR THEN ALL THE TWELVE
KHULFA:' MUST HAVE TO OCCUR WITH IN THE GIVEN PERIOD OF THIRTY LUNAR YEARS. THIS IS
IMPOSSIBLE.
IF A KHALI:FAH RASHID CAN EXIST OUT OF THIS PERIOD THEN OUR BELOVED MIND OF THE
ENGINEER CANNOT EXLUDE SAIYIDUNA: MU"AVIAH RD: FROM BEING A KH:ALI:FAH 'AR RA:SHID.
If he enquires that what is the proof we responce even his views are proofless.

17]WHY ENGINEER "ALI: IS SILENT ON ZUBAIR ALI ZAI.

Engineer "Ali: Mirza: declares 'Ima:m 'Ibn Taimiah RH: as a committer of Kufr.
According to "Ali: Mirza: 'Ima:m 'Ibn Taimiah committed a Kufr when he said that Temporalites
[H:ava:dith: /Temporals] do not have Beginning.

How ever he provides an a benifit of doubt that 'Ima: 'Ibn Taimiah might have rejected this belief.
According to us this Belief is not Kufr.
Engineer "Ali: Mirza: may try to declare us as Kafir for not accepting a Kufr as Kufr.
But there are certain problems which Engineer "Ali: Mirza: the Heretic mind of Jhelum has to
encounter.
If Zubair "Ali: Zai the former teacher of "Ali Mirza: did know this belief of 'Ima:m 'ibn Taimiah RH:
then he has no choice except to deslare 'Ima:m 'Ibn Taimiah RH: to declare him a Kafir.
Otherwise he himself becomes Kafir for not declaring a Belief of Kufr as a Kufr.
So in this case Zubair "Ali: Zai is implied to be a Kafir according to the system of thought of "Ali:
Mirza of Jhelum.
Now "Ali: Mirza Of Jhelum considers Zubair "Ali: Zai as a Muslim who did not declare 'Ima:m 'Ibn
Taimiah RH:as Kafir, Zubair "Ali: Zai is implied to be Not a Muslim in the inconsistent system of
deviant Engineer of Jhelum. Now if "Ali: Mirza: claims that His former Teacher Zubair "Ali: Zai is
Not a Muslim them "Ali: Mirza: Must accept that[Listen/See his Lecture#80] in which he claimed
that Zubair "Ali: Zai is a SPEAKER OF TRUTH [H:AQQ GO] is Incorrect and Wrong. What if
Engineer of Jhelum accepts that Zubair "Ali Zai is a Muslim?????
Engineer "Ali: Mirza: IS IMPLIED TO BE not a Muslim by HIS OWN STANDARD AND HIS
ENGINEERED SYSTEM. His Takfi:r turns back on him.This is a Paradox in his system.
The Heretic mind of this Engineer is unable to delect this paradox.
This is a Miracle of 'Ima:m 'Ibn Taimiah RH:.
Tkfi:r of Engineer turns back on him.
The circles is complete.
A POSSIBLE REPLY:=
Zubair "Ali Zai did not know this sentence and this belief of 'Ima:m 'Ibn Taimiah.
Reply to the possible reply.
This cannot be accepted since Zubair "Ali: Zai used to study all sorts of books and this belief
cannot escape his studies. This is impossible to accept.
AN OTHER POSSIBLE REPLY
Zubair "Ali: Zai did declare 'Ima:m 'Ibn Taimiah RH: as kafir but due to fear of strong opposition he
kept silent as Church's Mice.
Answer to second Possible Answer:
This cannot be accepted . Such a claim requires a proof. With out any proof nothing can be
accepted.

Some More Objections On the Engineer:

1] Can "Ali: Mirza: provide a single S:ah:ih: H:adi:th: that states that the belief that H:ava:dith do
not have Beginning is Kufr?
[If Engineer Engineers an argument from the tradition which states that the Heavenly Pen was the
first Creation and says that any thing any belief which contradicts this tradition is Kufr, then he
must have to declare all those who believe in any existent / thing as the first creation that is other
then the pen as Kafir. In this case he has to acceot that he is declaring all those as Kafir whom he
is trying to prove as Muslim. This is an inconsistency in his system of lectures].
2]In lecture 154 Engineer "Ali: Mirza differentiate himself and Jama:"atul Muslimi:n as follow:=
The latter declare every one as Kafir, while the former delare every one as Muslim WITH THE
EXCEPTION OF THOSE WHO ARE MENTIONED IN HIS LECTURE.
BUT THIS IS FALSE SINCE HE DECLARES ALL THOSE AS KAFIR WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN
THE BEGINNING OF HAVADITH:
RELATION OF QATILU:N RD:OF "UTH:MA:N AND QA:TILU:N OF H:USAIN RD:
There is a Principle which may be stated as follow:
Of What status the Killed on Is Great in virtues His Killers are Greater Sinners.
This implies that Killer of "Uthma:n RD: were Greater Sinners than the Killers Of H:usain.
The word killer is used in the meaning of those who actually took part in the Act of Killing.
This implies that If a Person A is 'Afd:al then the Preson B then the Killers of the Person A are Greater
Transgressor then the Killers of Person B.
ALI MIRZA OF JHELUM TRIES TO SHEW THAT IT WAS ALLOWED TO OFFER S:ALA"H BEHIND THE
INSURRECTORS OF SAIYIDUNA "UTHMA:N BUT HE IS ONE AGAIN SOME HOW MISTAKEN.
WHEN SAIYIDUNA: "UTH:MA:N ALLOWED TO OFFER PRAYERS BEHIND THEM ,THEY HAD NOT
KILLED HIM.
WHEN THE KILLED HIM IT WAS NOT ALLOWED TO OFFER PRAYERS BEHIND THEM.
SINCE THIS VERY ACT S THE SUPREME ACT OF TRANSGRESSION.
A CONUNDRUM:
Does "ali Mirza Opine that it was allowed to Offer Prayers behind Killers Of H:usain RD: as well as he is trying to misinterpret the sentence
of Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n that it was allowed to pray behind the Killers OF "Uth:ma:n RD: .
'ASTAGHFARULLAH AND NA"U:DH:UBILLAH.

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[ ]
Muh:ammad Bin "Abi Bacr was very small when his Noble Father died.
Muh:ammad Bin 'Abi Bacr latter became a Heretic .
If he was not involed in the murder of Saiyiduna: "Uth:ma:n RD: directly he was involved indirectly.
So neither he can enjoy the benifit of doubt nor HE CAN ENJOY the benifit of being Son of Saiyiduna Abu
Bacr RD: .
Note:= Some Followers of the Rafid:i may have played a trick by commuting the last two letters of the Holy
Noun of Saiyiduna ;Abu Bakr RD: , AND in responce to this mischieve it is recommended to use C instead of
K.

NOTE:
DISCLAIMER

THERE MAY BE SOME ERRORS OF TYPING ,SPELLINGS, GRAMMAR, AND IT IS ALSO

POSSIBLE THAT SOME SETENCES DUE TO ERROR MAY YEILD SOME INCORRECT
MEANING. IN SUCH CASE ONE MUST KNOW THAT WE ARE 'AHLUSSUNNAH AND WE
CANNOT TAKE ANY NON SUNNI MEANING. SO IF SUCH AN ERROR HAS OCCUR IT IS
PURELY A COINCIDENCE AND CANNOT BE ASCRIBED TO THE AUTHOR OF THIS ARTICLE
IN THE LEAST MEANING.
YOU HAVE BEEN INFORMED.