AS 1170.

2 and ASME STS-1 Wind sensitive structures

like chimney
Greetings,

I am going through a Vendor calculation on the wind sensitive

structure like chimney. I can see that the vendor has selected
large aspect ratio H/D around 31, and single self standing stack
can experience cross wind (vortex shedding) vibration at the
second mode of frequency as well.

"AS1170 Section 6.1 Evaluation of Dynamic Response factor"

clearly says that "The dynamic response factor shall be
determined for structures or elements of structures with natural
first mode fundamental frequencies ......If the first mode of
vibration greater than 1 Hz Cdyn = 1.0.

"AS1170.2 Clause 6.3.3 Crosswind response of chimneys,..." is

looking for only first mode of frequency of vibration in the
calculation.

Can we say the following from above statements?

1. AS1170.2 is not interested in higher modes of vibration by

these.
2. Or AS1170.2 does NOT accept the structures with high H/D
ratio.

3. Or the procedure provided by the standard is for the first mode

of vibration only, and can not be used for higher modes of
vibration.

AS/NZS1170.2 Supp 1- C6.3.3.1 Crosswind tip deflection says the

following:

"The calculated value of crosswind tip deflection will have an

accuracy of no better than 30 % to 50%. However, if the
calculated value is a large fraction of the diameter than methods
of mitigating the vibrations should be considered, such as the
following:
(a) Increasing damping.
(b) Increasing mass.
( c ) Installing aerodynamic devices such as strakes or shrouds."

C6.3.3.2 Equivalent Static wind force

This represents an inertial load that varies with height, according
to the mode shape on the first mode of vibration. A more accurate
first mode shape may be determined for a particular shape."

These seem to support the statement 3 above.

However ASME STS-1-2011 Section 5.2.2 (a) (1) Wind responses

Vortex Shedding clearly says that "Vortex shedding loads shall be
calculated for all modes of vibration where Vc < Vzcr. The
procedure in Nonmandatory Appendix E may be used. Fatigue

analysis must be considered. The vortex shedding loads need not

be considered with (a)long wind loads.".
Appendix E sample calculation for Vortex shedding under section
E04 does give calculation for the first mode of vibration only,
unfortunately.

I see that all the formulations in AS1170.2 and ASME STS-1 are for
linear mass distribution along the chimney with some tolerance,
and this tolerance is less than 10% over the top third of height. In
our case, there is a mass at the top of the chimney which does
not comply with the tolerance given by the code either to be able
to use the code formulation as they are. I guess the mass at the
top is considered in the calculation of first and second mode of
frequencies.

Additionally, the largest displacement is not expected to be at the

top of the chimney under the second mode of the vortex shedding
vibration, the chimney may be experiencing large displacement at
lower level, and corresponding overturning bending moment and
shear force at the base might be a lot larger because of the large
critical wind speed. I have not provided any calculation to support
this.

I am looking for a comment from the engineers experienced on

the calculation methods given by AS1170.2 and ASME STS-1.

The vendor has provided very limited information on this side

which only calculates the top deflection for the second mode of
frequency vortex shedding. I am questioning this part of the

calculation because it does not provide a proper calculation for

the overturning bending moment at the base.
The Vendor's opinion is that the stack does not have a likelihood
of large amplitude vibration due to vortex shedding at the second
mode of frequency, and calculated vortex shedding equivalent
loads are very small, and fatigue analysis is not required. Do you
agree with this opinion, what do you think? Is it sufficient
statement for overturning bending moment and shear forces at
the base?

Thanks in advance for your contribution, and kind regards,

Ibrahim Demir

My answer
Dear Ibrahim
Salam
I have not use AS1170 in my calculations; but I designed on steel
stack for a petrochemical company by ASME STS-1. If you have
AS1170, please send it to me to study and if I have a specific
opinion about it, I will share with you if Allah wantsI believe that ASME STS-1 does not allow exceeding the first
natural frequency. Vortex shedding is a phenomenon that occurs
in all the wind speeds and cause stack to vibrate. Frequency of
vibration of stack has a linear relation with wind speed. As wind
speed increases, frequency of vibration will increase. It continues
until frequency of vibration coincides with first natural frequency.
At this wind speed, resonance will occur. If the stack does not
have enough strength, failure is an expected result; but if it has
enough strength -as wind speed increases- signs of resonance will
be dissipated and amplitude of vibration will decrease
considerably.
ASME STS-1 includes above idea. Since there is not a specific
natural frequency in practical situation, ASME defines three zones:
1. In the first zone that wind speed is small enough that makes
us sure that resonance will not occur.
2. In the second zone, we are not sure that resonance will occur
or not. So ASME submits more accurate calculation for this
subject. If this calculation leads to resonance then it is time
to calculate huge loads caused by resonance.
3. In the third zone, we are absolutely sure that resonance will
occur and we should calculate subsequent loads caused by
resonance.

You should consider that in design, there are two criteria that shall
be satisfied.
1. Maximum stress (that shall not be greater than allowable
stress based on your design code)
2. Maximum deflection (that shall not be greater than 0.5% of
total length of stack)

I said all above, because most of engineers think that vortex

shedding occurs at a specific wind speed, while vortex shedding
except in low wind speeds- absolutely will occur in all wind
speeds. What you should take enough care about it, is resonance
not vortex shedding. (For more information please refer to Bednar
handbook)
Although ASME is not applicable for second natural frequency; but
you can even exceed the second natural frequency base on a
correct engineering justification and calculation.

(((The Vendor's opinion is that the stack does not have a

likelihood of large amplitude vibration due to vortex shedding at
the second mode of frequency, and calculated vortex shedding
equivalent loads are very small, and fatigue analysis is not
required. Do you agree with this opinion, what do you think? Is it
sufficient statement for overturning bending moment and shear
forces at the base?)))
About above item, I should say that vendors opinion is quit
incorrect. Because maximum wind speed probably will occur once
in 50 years; but at lower speed your structure may fall within the
first mode of frequency. I think that first mode of frequency may
be more severe than the second mode. So at first please ask your
vendor to perform calculation for all possible modes of frequency.
It is also a good idea to force your vendor to check his own design

with a well-known software. Also ask your vendor to give design

guarantee.
Also it is not important that mass in stack is distributed uniformly
or not. You can obtain natural frequency by manual calculation or
by a 3D modeling software.
However vortex shedding (according to experience) occurs at top
1/3 of the structure. For this reason, ASME insists to use vortex
breakers at this zone. Using vortex breaker below this zone has no
affect for dissipating vortex shedding.
Based on my studies and also experiences of my colleagues, it is
strongly recommended to use guy wire; if there is not enough
space around your stack, make a steel structure around it. Finally
if none of two choices is not practical, you can use vortex breaker.
In this recent case, vortex shedding and consequently resonance
will not occur. Instead please consider that vortex breaker causes
a shape factor of 1.4 that multiplies in static wind load. This high
shape factor leads to a higher static wind load. As a result maybe
thickness of stack as well as load at base is increased.
If you need more discussion, please dont hesitate to contact me
at shams.abbas@pidec.com
Also if you have an engineering judgment about my opinion or if
you think something is wrong with me, I would be glad to hear
about it.
Abbas Shams