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thread403-151291

I need to calculate de cooling load of an area that demands 100% outside air, and to be honest, I dont Know how to do it.

There are some questions that comes to my mind: What should be the leaving air temperature? The loads produce by people,

lights, walls, etc that we estimate in a recirculating system, should be calculated in this kind of system too?. I really apreciate

some help. (Im from Dominican Republic, so excuse my english).

Thanks.

For the outside air:

Sensible cooling

CU FT/MIN x 1.085 X outside AIR DELTA t = BTU/HR

SENSIBLE

Latent cooling:

fu ft/min x 0.66 x (delta moisture in grains/lb from

psychometric chart) = btu/hr latent

Sensible load + latent load = total cooling load for outside air

In general, cold air is delivered at 55F dry bulb and wet bulb (ie, saturated)

Building solar loads, lights, equipment and people loading should be included in your calculations.

You should probably hire a Mechanical Engineer to do this as he is familiar with it and you aren't.

Hello willard3

I have met some intelligent dedicated engineers in the third world. Unfortunately, the training and educational systems there

are not up to first world standards.

pablo2410 has recognized that he doesn't have the information that he needs to solve his problem and has wisely gone looking

for good advice.

I thank you on behalf of pablo2410 for your kind help, but I wish to gently point out that your last suggestion may not be

feasible.

pablo2410 is quite possibly the best mechanical engineer available.

You may find it rewarding, willard3 to mentor pablo2410 and help him to become a better engineer. From the tone of his post I

believe he is intelligent and dedicated. He recognizes shortcomings in his education and is trying to improve himself.

You have already given pablo2410 the basics, go a little farther and help him through his calculations and you may find that you

enjoy it.

respectfully

pablo,

Take a look at this site:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hvac-systems-t_23.html

Pablo,

The room leaving air condition should always be the room condition.

Calculate heat load as per the general rules. Plot the room condition and ambient condition state points on the psychro chart.

01-09-2016 02:49 PM

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Draw a line with a slope of SHR from the room condition to the saturated curve. This is your dew point condition. Join the

ambient condition state point to the dew point. The total load on the coil will be the mass flow rate of air times the enthalpy

difference between the ambient condition and the dew point condition. In some cases, the SHR line becomes an asymptote to

the saturation curve. In this case, assume some arbitrary dew point and add reheat into the process.

The link below gives you description and details of many psychrometric processes. Have a look into it.

http://www.coolit.co.za/psychart/

Waross,

Nice thinking and I feel that is the whole idea behind these forums.

Here comes another question, how can i calculate mass flow, i mean, i know the volume of air in the room, but how do i know

how many times do i have to recirculate it

correct me if I am wrong but I am assumming you meant Volume flow instead of mass flow.

Below is something I grabbed off a website descrbing what I think will be of help to you.

One air change occurs in a room when a quantity of air equal to the volume of the room is supplied and/or exhausted.

Air change rates are units of ventilation that compare the amount of air moving through a space to the volume of the space. Air

change rates are calculated to determine how well a space is ventilated compared to published standards, codes, or

recommendations.

Air changes per hour (ACH) is the most common unit used. This is the volume of air (usually expressed in cubic feet) exhausted

or supplied every hour divided by the room

volume (also usually expressed in cubic feet).

Airflow is usually measured in cubic feet per minute (CFM). This is multiplied by 60 minutes

to determine the volume of air delivered per hour (in cubic feet).

ACH = (CFM X 60 minutes)/(room volume in cubic feet)

What i want to know is how can i determine the CFM needed for the area.

Pablo:

The sensible heat ratio and cooling load will dictate the air changes/hour and is the solution to the problem. Try not to confuse

the cause for the effect.

In my climate, ie, 42 deg latitude and 73 deg longitude, in a frame-built, insulated building with approx 20% glass and 8'

ceilings, cfm varies from 1 cfm/square foot to 3 cfm/square foot of floor depending upon internal loading, ie, number of people,

lighting, equipment loads and ventilation loads.

BTU load varies from 30-50 btu/cu foot exclusive of internal loadings.

We have building codes in New York that make the range of these numbers pretty small.

Your latitude is 18 deg and longitude is 69 deg, so solar loading and air temperatures will be very different than New York. I am

also sure that you construction materials and methods are different than ours so building mass and etc will be different

You should get a copy of ASHRAE Fundamentals Volume(American Society of Heating, Refrigeration and Air Conditioning

Engineers); it contains answers to all the questions you are asking. You have access to the web, so "Google" ASHRAE.

You can also use Trane software to calculate heating/cooling loads, but you need first to understand the input. ASHRAE will be a

big help with the input.

Wrong data:

BTU load varies from 30-50 btu/cu foot exclusive of internal loadings.

01-09-2016 02:49 PM

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Right data:

BTU load varies from 3-5 btu/cu foot exclusive of internal loadings.

Ok, (willard3) the first formula you gave, me was a variation of the first law of thermodinamics, another way to put it is using

the mass flow times the enthalpy difference between ambient condition and dew point condition, but in both cases i need a flow

of air in terms of mass or volume, and there is my confusion. The other question is : do i need a 55F leaving air temperature in

a system using 100% outside air?. I make this question because i assume that in this kind of system, there is no mix between

the air in the room and the air from outside to achive a medium temperature, because eventually the total volume of air in the

room will be exhauted and replace for a new volume from the outside, so i was thinking that the leaving air temperature should

be the temperature of the conditions i want in the room, lets say 73.

I am going to take a stab at this.

Design condition:

Outside air temp (DB/WB) = 92F/68F (0.5% mean summer temp Los Angeles)

Supply air temp = 55F

Assumptions:

Dimension of space 60'(L)x60'(W)x15'(H)

20 people x 250 btu/hr = 5000 btu/hr

2.5 watts/sf lighting = 9000 btu/hr

Assume 5,000 BTU/hr exterior loads

------------------------------------ACH (Air change per hour) = 10

therefore CFM = ACH x Volume / 60 = (10 x 54,000 cu ft)/60 = 9,000 cfm

So 9,000 cfm is required to exhaust the room 10 times per hour.

Now to determine the load on the cooling coil:

Cooling coil load = 1.1 x CFM x (T1 - T2) = 1.1 x 9,000 x (92-55) = 366,300 BTU/hr

Summing all the loads:

366,300 btu/hr + 5000 btu/hr + 9000 btu/hr + 5,000 btu/hr = 385,300 btu/hr or 32 tons.

So to select a unit to suit all the above loads, I will select a 35 ton unit.

This is just a generic example. There are many other loads that I am not incorporating. Hopefully this can get you in the right

direction.

Ok, so far, all the things that had been told here, i already knew it.I think i,m not asking the right question, so here i go, how

can i determine the total cfm that is required to pass trough a cooling coil in a system that requires 100% outside air, or how do

i know how many changes of air do i need.

The CFM required is calculated by the engineer. Typically for a laboratory the ACH is 6-15 ACH. A restroom is 4-8 ACH. (these

are recommended numbers we use in our office. These are not a standard.)

Does that help?

a locker room

Area 3550 sqft

height 10ft

35 persons in the room

what will be the diference in my load calculation if the system is 100% recirculate air or 100% outside air.

01-09-2016 02:49 PM

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Assumptions:

Summer design condition 92F/63F

Indoor design condition 72F

Interior location therefore no external load

Locker Room ACH = 15 (again, this is our office standard)

Volume: 3550 sf x 10' = 35,500

People load sensible = 520 btuh/person (18,200 btuh) (just got done working out)

People load latent/person = 105 btuh (3575 btuh)

Lighting load = 1.5 watts/sf (5325 btuh)

CFM = 15 x 35,500 / 60 = 8,875 cfm (lets say 9000 for simplicity)

1. For 100% outside air:

Cooling coil load = 366,300 btuh

Total sensible load = 366,300 + 5325 + 18,200 = 389,825 btuh or 32.5 tons.

2. The difference will be substantial but Locker rooms are never 100% recirculated. There will always be some amount fresh air

brought into the space.

The air change method is a simple method of getting an approximate idea of what size unit is required. In locker room

applications many times they are heated and ventilated only. And Make-up air is usually always required to achieve proper air

balance.

Hope that clears up some questions you may have. GL

a rule of thumb ..... 150 cfm/ton for a preliminary sizing load

final psych chart analysis on DB/meanWB per ashrae geographic data

don't forget fan heat gain

One other thing must be taken into account. If you are planning on using a packaged system (ie., rooftop unit), you must

consult with the manufacturer. As a general rule, (at least according to my local reps) a packaged unit is only capable of

accepting approximately 25-30% of the total airflow in the form of unconditioned outside air.

Any system you use should be discussed with you local rep. You should also require them to also provide you with any

documentation for information that may differ from you "sound engineering judgement."

FYI, ASHRAE list the design condtions for Dominican Republic cooling, in the 0.4% range, as 91/80 dF db/wb.

62hog is right. Chilled water systems are recommended for 100% OA applications. However it is also possible to use multistage

package DX AC units by recirculating a portion of the supply direct to the return and supplying to the room only the CFM

equivalent of the OA handled. For example, if the load for say 4000 CFM 100% OA is 20 tons. Use a 20 ton unit say nominal

8000 CFM, but use 4000 CFM OA, 8000 CFM total SA, 4000 CFM recirc direct back to AHU and 4000 CFM supply to the room.

Solve for the mixed air conditions of the OA and recirc air to get cooling coil entering air condition. Interpolate performance from

tabulated date. Solve for cooling coil leaving air temperature. Determine fan and duct heat gains and deduct from tabulated

capacity to get net capacity.

First you need to compute the total heat load .like number of window, size of doors what materials used in the building Wall.

You may find the value of each material in Ashrae handbook or Mechanical handbook.You may also use Manual J method, a

software for load computation.

This wil guide you step by step method.

Here's my 2 cents...

BTUH = 4.5 x cfm x Delta H

H=psych chart enthalpy

McQuay & Trane as well as others have downloadable Charts that should give Enthalpy conditions,

I prefer the straight edge on a paper graph (calcs for the files)

01-09-2016 02:49 PM

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indoor cond. 75dF 50% Humidity Enthalpy = 28.0

or 70dF 50% Humidity Enthalpy = 26.3

For ease of use I call it a dH of 10

Btuh= cfm x 4.5 x 10

If I find I need a 20 Ton system, I'll be very careful to select a coil on face velocity, to avoid freeze up,

as well as Latent & sensible capacities.

Interlaced coils with multiple stages (more is better) work best.

I avoid conditioning the space with this system as it would require a larger system.

I prefer delivering room temp air & having a seperate recirculating system for space loads. I may even deliver a portion of the

"tempered outdoor air" into the return of the space conditioning system, Possibly 100% if the cfm matches, with a return setup

for independent operation.

My winter design is -20dF so any outdoor air is heated & it's usually done with a direct fire MAU. The products of combustion in

this air has recently become an issue, especially on units recirculating any inside air.

With these design conditions, I would look at incorporating a Heat Recovery Ventilator. Something like a RenewAire with latent

& sensible exchange can save a boatload on the aforementioned Gas MUA w/20ton coil.

Exh air conditions (i.e. dust, oil, etc...) might prohibit a heat exchanger altogether.

good luck

slj

One thing not to overlook is that the latent load is going to be rather high, given that this is a locker room with showers. A

recirculated system's latent loads at the coil could be higher than the OSA senario. I would look up latent load and air change

recommendations in the ASHRAE Fundamentals Handbook. It may make more economical sense to go with 100% O.S.A. and

keep my discharge air at say 60 65 degrees afterall it is a locker room. Hey I have enough problem with shrinkage. ;>) Good

luck, with this much advise how could you go wrong?

I'm not a real engineer, but I play one on T.V.

A.J. Gest, York Int.

Quote________________

ok, here is the problem

a locker room

Area 3550 sqft

height 10ft

35 persons in the room

what will be the diference in my load calculation if the system is 100% recirculate air or 100% outside air.

_____________________

The difference in your load calculation is HUGE.

Post a little more information like whats your design room temp? For public locker rooms I design around a 77-78 Deg. Indoor

temp year round.

A few things you need to know first about locker rooms.

Locker rooms should always be kept slightly negative.

The locker room area should be completely sealed NO plenum returns No mixing of air with other systems.

You are allowed to re-circulate air providing it is the air from the locker room area.

You must have exhaust fans.

You dont always need 100% Outside air just enough to provide proper ventilation to match your exhaust.

I have use E.R.Vs in locker rooms to recover as much energy as possible to lower the load.

01-09-2016 02:49 PM

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In your case if you use 100% outside air you will need to exhaust 110% of that air (to keep the space slightly negative)

Thats a HUGE load to cool and then to exhaust if you live in a warm climate.

Core

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