Room Conversation

London, July 11, 1973

730711R4.LON
Student (1): I'm not arguing for Divine Light or
anything. I'm just trying to...
Revatinandana: No, just take it philosophically. Can a
person come from a void? Void means zero. But a person
is not zero. He has so many personal qualities.
Student (1): I mean, if you stick to strict logic, you can't,
no, right. I mean this isn't logical, is it?
Revatinandana: Sometimes by logic you can find out
what is false. What is truth, that we get from authority.
Student (1): You say it is logic because, say, everything
in that book fits in with everything else, maybe. So it's a
total form of logic in itself.
Student (3): Your logic starts from the assumption that
the book is correct.
Prabhupada: Then why you are arguing? That is logic.
Why you are arguing? Why don't you accept what I say?
Why you are arguing? That is logic.
Room Conversation
London, July 11, 1973
730711R4.LON
Student (3): Because so many people say different things
which conflict.
Prabhupada: Therefore you are taking the shelter of
logic. You are taking the shelter.
Student (1): Logic... Logic is arguing, isn't it?
Prabhupada: No, logic means argument, reasoning. Our
logic is because Krsna is accepted by all great persons,
authorities, we accept. Our logic is simple.
Student (1): But Christians might say the same thing.
They might say, "Look at the Bible, This is our logic."
Prabhupada: Yes, that's all right. They accept God; we
accept God. The only difference is they do not know who
is God, but we know who is God.
Student (1): No, they know who is God.
Prabhupada: No.
Revatinandana: You won't get any good information
about God. "God is great. God created"--finished. That's
not very much information. God's son? A little more
information about God's son.
Room Conversation
London, July 11, 1973
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Student (1): But you've got no more right to say you
know who is God than they have.
Revatinandana: Oh, well, we have a lot more
information about God, you see.
Student: In which way?
Revatinandana: In these Vedas. There's a difference
between the arithmetic book you get in the first grade of
school and the calculus book in terms of the amount of
information. We can tell you more about God because the
Vedas give more information than the Bible. But the
basic principle--"God is there. God is a person"--is in
both places.
Prabhupada: Jesus Christ is son of God. Therefore God
must be person. A person can beget a son.
Student (1): God exists now.
Prabhupada: Yes, always exists.
Student (1): But therefore where is He?
Prabhupada: Why is He?
Room Conversation
730711R4.LON

London, July 11, 1973

Revatinandana: Where is He?

Prabhupada: Where is He? He is with you. He is here.
But you have no eyes to see, that's all.
Revatinandana: He says, "I'm sitting in everyone's heart,
and from Me comes knowledge, remembrance and
forgetfulness." If you turn toward Him, He will give you
knowledge, and you'll be able to see Him. But you have
to find out who to turn toward. Then you can turn. So
from saintly authorities, the line of masters and the
Vedas, we find out where to turn. And if you turn
properly, then by Krsna's grace, you'll see Krsna. He'll
reveal Himself in the course of time.
Student (2): Have you all seen Krsna?
Prabhupada: What is that?
Revatinandana: He asked if we have all seen Krsna.
Prabhupada: We are daily, every moment, seeing, every
moment. Otherwise, do you mean to say we are blindly
following something?
Room Conversation
London, July 11, 1973
730711R4.LON
Student (2): No, I'm not saying that. I'm just asking if
someone comes along and joins you, do they see Krsna?
Prabhupada: Yes, why don't you see Krsna? There is
picture of Krsna. Why don't you see, driving horse? Here
is Krsna. Why don't you see? If you see the photograph
of your father, is it not seeing your father?
Student (2): No.
Prabhupada: No, then what can I talk with you?
Student (2): All I was saying was is it, when someone
comes...
Prabhupada: Your the photograph of your, seeing the
photograph of your father, is it not seeing your father?
That's your argument?
Student (1): No, it's seeing a photograph of your father.
Prabhupada: False?
Revatinandana: It's seeing a photograph of your father.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now, but God is Absolute. God and
God's photograph, there is no difference. God and God's
name, there is no difference. Therefore God is Absolute.
He is not relative. You can say, "The photograph is not
my father," that because it is relative. But God is
Absolute. God's name, God's form, God's pastimes-everything is God. That you have to understand,
Absolute nature. Otherwise are these boys and so many
thousands and thousands of devotees... They are
chanting Hare Krsna. If Krsna, this name, is different
from Krsna, are they foolishly simply chanting Krsna?
Room Conversation
London, July 11, 1973
730711R4.LON
Student (2): I don't know but...
Prabhupada: Krsna and Krsna's name is the same. Krsna
and Krsna's photograph is the same. That you have to
understand. Krsna is Absolute.
Student (3): Do you mean Krsna is Absolute, and Krsna
is everything?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Student (3): Then why does Krsna have a specific form?
Prabhupada: And why not? Krsna is everything. Suppose
I if I say, "I am everything in this, my institution," does it
mean I have lost my personality? No, no, if I say, this
Krsna consciousness movement... If somebody says that
"Bhaktivedanta Swami is everything," does it mean I
have lost my personality? That is material

understanding. Krsna keeps His personality; still, He is

everything.
(c) 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book TrustRoom
Conversation
London, September 2, 1973
730902RC.LON
Guest (2): As far as logic, I don't think logic can explain
anything and everything.
Prabhupada: No, then it is skepticism. There is no
progress of knowledge. There is no progress of
knowledge. As far as man can understand, as Mr., you
are Mr. Bannerji?
Guest (1): Mr. Howler. (?)
Prabhupada: Howler? Yes. So, there is little logic there,
as a human being can understand. That's all. And if we
accept this theory, that logic, our logic is imperfect, we
cannot understand, then we have to accept authority. Just
like a child. Mother says, "Here is your father." There is
no logic. There is no logic. He has to accept. Only the
mother version is logic, That's all. Authority. Is it not?
Guest (1): Yes, that's true.
Prabhupada: Then where there is no logic, the authority
must be accepted. Therefore we accept that authority.
Sabda-pramana. The best evidence. Sabda-pramana.
There are different evidences. Out of that, veda-pramana,
sabda-pramana is first class. All right, thank you very
much. Jaya.
Room Conversation
London, September 2, 1973
730902RC.LON
(c) 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book TrustPrabhupada: Yes,
these different types of philosophers are always there, not
only in the medieval age, in the previously also. It is
said, na casav rsir yasya matam na bhinnam. "A
philosopher is not a philosopher if he does not present a
different view." (laughter) This is stated in the
Bhagavata. Tarko 'pratisthah srutayo vibhinnah (?).
Tarka, by argument, logic, you cannot come to the right
conclusion because you may be a good logician and then
you meet another logician who is better than you. So his
arguments may be stronger than your argument.
Therefore, simply by arguments or logical premises, you
cannot approach the Absolute Truth.
Richard Webster: Oh, yes. I agree.
Prabhupada: Yes. And srutayo vibhinnah. Literatures are
also, authentic literatures... Srutayah means authentic
literature, which is acceptable. They are also various
type. Just like Vedas. There are four Vedas: Sama-Veda,
Yajur-Veda, Atharva-Veda, Rg-Veda. Then the Upanisads
are there. Then the Vedanta-sutra is there. So if we study
all this Vedic literature or any other similar literature, it
is very difficult to find out the Absolute Truth. Srutayo
vibhinnah. And if we take the philosophers, so one
philosopher differs from another philosopher. Na casav
rsir yasya matam na bhinnam. Therefore, to approach
the Absolute Truth, God, is very difficult subject matter.
Therefore our principle is mahajano yena gatah sa
panthah. Mahajana means the recognized persons,
recognized by the Supreme Lord, such persons we
follow. We have got a list of recognized persons, just like
Lord Brahma, Lord Siva, the Manu. Just like in the
Bhagavad-gita, Manu's name is there. Imam vivasvate
yogam proktavan aham avyayam, vivasvan manave

praha this Manu. So Manu, then Kapila, then Prahlada,

Janaka, Vyasadeva, Sukadeva Gosvami, Yamaraja. In
this way there are twelve mahajanas. And we receive
knowledge from either of them. That is bona fide
philosophy. That is called parampara system. The
original teacher is Krsna and from Him the sun-god,
Vivasvan, learned it. He spoke to his son, Manu. Manu
spoke to his son, Iksvaku. In this way the parampara
system is coming. And that is bona fide. This is our
philosophy, to accept knowledge from the perfect person
or his bona fide representative.
(c) 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book TrustRichard Webster:
Within the Christian religion there is a strong emphasis
on possible failure and forgiveness.
Prabhupada: No. Forgiveness is... I know that in church
the confession program is there. Forgiveness... Suppose
you are or I am an offender. I ask your forgiveness. So
you can forgive me once, twice, thrice, not more than
that. You cannot make it a profession that you go on
committing sins and God will forgive you. No, that is not
possible. That is misconception. That is mentioned in the
Bhagavad-gita, api cet suduracaro bhajate mam ananyabhak, sadhur eva sa mantavyah. This suduracarah,
means offender, that is not willful offense. One person is
accustomed to some bad habits, but he has taken to
Krsna consciousness or God consciousness. But on
account of strong habit, if he fails sometimes, that is
excused, forgiveness, not that willful committing sin and
ask for forgiveness. That is not allowed. In common
affairs we do not see. I have got practical, I mean to say,
experience. In my householder life I was proprietor of a
big pharmacy. So my manager sold some morphia
preparation to some unauthorized person. So the sales
inspector, they noted it and made us a criminal. And the
magistrate called me because I was the proprietor. So my
statement was given that "I do not conduct the business
directly. Of course, I am responsible for my manager's
fault, but I shall be very strict in future. You can forgive
me." Immediately I was forgiven. But next time, if I go,
if I say like that, that is not forgiven. That is not possible.
So this forgiveness is good for accidental fault. But it
cannot be continued, that is a wrong philosophy.
Room Conversation
Rome, May 24, 1974
740524R2.ROM
(c) 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book TrustPrabhupada: You
have to see... That... Vedic injunction says, sastracaksusa. Sastra-caksusa: "Your eyes should be the
sastra." There is another crude example. Just like who is
your father? How do you understand? Through the
vibration of the mother. The mother says, "He is your
father." You accept it. Otherwise there is no experiment.
So things which are beyond your perception, beyond
your defective senses, that should not be speculated. Na
tams tarkena yojayet. Acintya khalv ye bhava na tams
tarkena yojayet. These are the injunction. What is beyond
your perception, beyond your speculation, don't waste
your time so-called argument and logic. What is
argument? Mother says, "He is your father." Where is the
argument? You cannot apply any argument.
Professor: No, I said old tradition in India has been
going on into argument itself.

Prabhupada: No, argument you can go on, but if you

want to know the truth it will not be attained by
argument because argument is also within your thinking
power: thinking, feeling, willing. So if your thinking,
feeling, willing is imperfect, what is the use of your
argument? What is the use of your so-called
advancement of knowledge? Basically, if the senses,
knowledge acquiring senses, are imperfect, then how you
can get perfect knowledge?
Professor: Well, then what do we with all techniques, all
systems, that have been developed? I am thinking only
India, I am not thinking other places, and all the old
tradition, since Sankara onwards, of different ways to
think, to study, to go deeply to all these relations
between...
Prabhupada: Sankara has interpreted. Sankara has
interpreted by his limited knowledge. So that is not
perfect knowledge. Therefore we don't accept Sankara's
philosophy.
Professor: But I said if he belongs to the same tradition,
and you belong to the other...
Prabhupada: That tradition is nothing. Tradition is just
temporary. You make your tradition; he makes your
tradition. That is another thing. But the, fact is fact. That
is not dependent on tradition. Tradition we can make,
tradition. "We believe." Just like somebody says, "We
believe." What is the use of such saying, "We believe"?
You may believe something which is not fact.
Professor: Yes, but we could say that since the Upanisads
and later, all things have been sustaining the thing which
you have just said a moment ago, that there exists an
identity between atman and Brahman.
Prabhupada: Identity is there. That, therefore, I have
already said, nityo nityanam cetanas cetananm. Both of
them are identical so far nitya is concerned or cetana is
concerned, but one is dependent, and other is maintainer.
That is difference. Both of them are truth. Both of them
truth. You are truth; I am truth. You are living; I am
living, existing. This is truth. This is truth, but you are
professor and I am something else. That is temporary.
But so far you are, as living being, and I am, as living
being, that is truth. But your dress and my dress, that is
temporary. So we have to understand like that. In this
material world we are mixed up with temporary and
eternal. The living entity is eternal, but his body is
temporary. This is the position. So the problem is: why
the eternal has got temporary things? That is hampering
his ananda. Just like I am sitting here. Now, if somebody
says, "Now you'll have to die and accept another body,"
this is not very pleasing to me. Or even I am sitting in
this apartment, and somebody..., "No, you change your
apartment. Come. Come here." Again I change another
apartment. So I'll seek after: "Why I am changing this
apartment? Is it not possible to get an eternal
apartment?" That should be the brahma-jijnasa. That is...
Vedanta-sutra first says, athato brahma-jijnasa. "Why I
am subjected to this change?" That is intelligence. "Why
not eternal apartment if I am eternal?" That is
intelligence.
(c) 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book TrustPrabhupada: It is...
Very simple answer is: when the mother certifies, "He is
your father," that's all. You don't have to make research.
That is futile. By research, you cannot understand who is

your real father. You can understand your real father only
by the certificate of your mother. That's all. Therefore our
Vedic mantra says that religion and God cannot be
manufactured by speculation. Acintyah khalu ye bhava
na tams tarkena yojayet. Just like this example, father.
Father was existing before my birth. So after my birth,
with limited knowledge I make research who is my
father--you will never find your father. But if you take
the certificate of your mother, that is there. Similarly,
acintyah khalu ye bhava, things which are beyond our
conception, that cannot be established simply by
argument, logic, so-called science and philosophy, that is
not possible. The same example: by argument, logic,
science, philosophy you cannot ascertain who is your
father. The only simple method and authorized method is
to ask mother, and if she says, "Yes, he is your father..."
Similarly, things which are beyond our conception,
simply argument will be useless. Acintyah khalu ye
bhava na tams tarkena yo... Tarka means arguments. In
another place it is said, tarka, argument, is futile. Tarkah
apratisthah: "By argument, you cannot come to the right
conclusion." You can argue in a way; I can argue a better
way, he can argue in better way. That is not the system.
That will not help. Tarko apratisthah srutayo vibhinnah.
If you study scriptures, so in the world there are many
varieties of scriptures. There is Bible, there is Bhagavadgita, there is Koran, there is so on, so on. So which one
is correct? That also you cannot decide. Srutayo
vibhinnah, and nasau munir yasya matam na bhinnam.
And if you consult philosophers or scientists, every
scientist, every philosopher, differs from the other.
Otherwise he cannot become a big scientist. He must
give a different view; then he is big scientist. So nasau
munir yasya matam na bhinnam. Then where is the way
to understand? The conclusion is mahajano yena gatah
sa panthah: "Mahajana, great personalities, recognized
acarya, what they say, you follow." That is the best
system. So anyone who is speaking about God with
authority--take for example Jesus Christ; he is speaking
in the western world--you accept him. We Indians, we
accept Caitanya or Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya. That
is the way. That is the way because these acaryas, these
authorities, they are speaking about God. None of them
speaking that "You become happy here," no, none of
them. Either Christ or Caitanya or Mohammed, nobody
has said. So according to the time, circumstances,
position, either you follow any one of them as it suits you
or, if you can make a comparative study, you follow the
best one. So therefore, our conclusion is Krsna is the
best. He is God. Christ is son of God. So we don't differ
son of God and God. That is all right. But when the
father is speaking personally, he is speaking what the son
has spoken plus something because he is more
experienced. So take the father and follow him. That's
all. Mohammed says he is servant of God. Christ says he
is son of God. And Krsna says, "I am God." So where is
the difference? The son will say the same thing, the
servant will say the same thing, and the father also will
say the same thing. So theology means to know God and
abide by His order. That is my understanding. And
theology does not mean to make research who is God.
That is theosophy. So if you are theologicians, then you
must know what is God and abide by His order.
(c) 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book TrustDiscussion

Vrindaban, July 5, 1977

770705DC.VRN
Prabhupada: That difference of opinion will continue.
You cannot stop.
Bhakti-prema: This Pacific Ocean is saltwater...
Prabhupada: Why you are trying to adjust Pacific Ocean?
Pacific Ocean, any ocean, it is just like kupa-manduka. It
is very big for you, but you are a very teeny identity. Take
the universe. What is the Pacific? Is it not a drop. There
are so many Pacific Oceans floating in the sky.
Everything
is
acintya.
Yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam
athavalambya jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah.
This is acintya. So acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams
tarkena yojayet. You cannot make an experiment or see
it. Take some information from the authority and be
satisfied. With your limited knowledge, if you want to
bring it to experiment, that is not possible. That is not
possible.