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Question: Does God know who will be saved?
Hello! I've known about your website for quite some time now, but I never really looked
deep into it. But now I am even more interested in predestination. One of my friends from
church believes in this, and he is always talking to me about it. I recently learned the term
fatalistic, which, in my mind, describes perfectly the Calvinist universe! He gave me an
excerpt from a book he was reading about it, and it attempted to say how God preordains
everything, but yet the universe is not fatalistic. Sounds like a contradiction to me. And it
also says that men willfully do not accept Christ. But if he doesn't choose them, how can
they accept? Jesus says no one will have an excuse, but that sounds like a good one to
me! These were just a few things that keep on running through my minds. I can't wait to
start reading your articles on predestination, and hopefully learn the truth. I have learned
my whole life that God has every single thing planned out. I just realized that this is why
I have so much trouble praying. I've been raised with the attitude that it does no good,
because God has already planned everything. Hopefully I will realize part of His true
nature, and this will change.
The only thing I have trouble accepting is that God does not know who will be saved.
God not knowing something just doesn't "click" in my mind. I'll have to read deeper into
that article to understand it better (because I might have misunderstood).
Thank you very much! I can't wait to read what you have to say.
God Bless,
Jordan
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Jordan,
When I was a Calvinist, I had a lousy prayer life. Thats why I was looking for answers to
the question, How can God answer prayer? Your idea is a little different than mine. If
you believe that God foreknew everything that would happen in the universe before He
created anything, then, when did He begin to foreknow anything?
Then, if He foreknew everything that will ever happen at some point in time past, when
was that point? Did He always know it? If He foreknew everything that will ever happen
all the time, all His responses to all of our prayers were also foreknown by Him. Since all
of our thoughts, actions, responses, etc., were foreknown, along with His responses, then,
everything is, so to speak, in concrete. Then, no matter what we do, it was already known
and was locked in, with no possibility of any fluctuation.
Since God predestines what He foreknows, or is it, knows, in Rom 8:28-30 we, then, see
that we were predestined at the same time we were foreknown: And we know that all
things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called
according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be
conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also
justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Therefore, according to this thinking, everything in the future is and was determined
before God created the universe. When you wrote, I recently learned the term fatalistic,
which, in my mind, describes perfectly the Calvinist universe! He gave me an excerpt
from a book he was reading about it, and it attempted to say how God preordains
everything, but yet the universe is not fatalistic. Sounds like a contradiction to me., I
agree. It is fatalistic. Nothing could be any different from what God knew/knows.
However, this cant be shown from the Bible when we understand what the word repent,
as it is used by God about 30 times. Repent really signifies that God is able to change His
mind. The absolute foreknowledge view would contradict Gods ability to respond to
anything, now, because our prayers and actions and His responses were already locked in,
in eternity past.
The first thing I remember about this idea was God was outside of time and exhaustively
knew the future.
Now, I realize that God knows everything that is possible to know, because 1 John 3:20
says, For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
But, that doesnt mean He knows all of the future.
God knows what is knowable. If man has any free agency - can make any choices not
totally predestined by God, then, those future free acts would be unknowable. The Bible
doesnt say anywhere, God knows the future, or God doesnt know the future. But the
Bible does make statements which show that God does not know some of the future
events of the somewhat free agent, man.
Further, God shows that man has free will, because He doesnt know for sure what man
will do in all cases. Gen 22:12,15-17 is one example of this. And He said, Do not lay
your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you
have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me. 15 Then the Angel of the LORD
called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: By Myself I have sworn,
says the LORD, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your
only son; 17 blessing I will bless you, etc.
God also uses perhaps to show man has a certain amount of free will to make choices that
are somewhat unpredictable. Here are some examples.
Ex 13:17 Then it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God did not lead
them by way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest
perhaps the people change their minds when they see war, and return to Egypt.
Jer 26:1-3 In the beginning of the reign of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, this
word came from the LORD, saying, 2 Thus says the LORD: Stand in the court of the
Lords house, and speak to all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the Lords
house, all the words that I command you to speak to them. Do not diminish a word. 3
Perhaps everyone will listen and turn from his evil way, that I may repent concerning the
calamity which I purpose to bring on them because of the evil of their doings.

Jer 36:1-3 Now it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of
Judah, that this word came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 Take a scroll of a
book and write on it all the words that I have spoken to you against Israel, against Judah,
and against all the nations, from the day I spoke to you, from the days of Josiah even to
this day. 3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the adversities which I purpose
to bring upon them, that everyone may turn from his evil way, that I may forgive their
iniquity and their sin.
Eze 12:1-3 Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 2 Son of man, you dwell in
the midst of a rebellious house, which has eyes to see but does not see, and ears to hear
but does not hear; for they are a rebellious house. 3 Therefore, son of man, prepare your
belongings for captivity, and go into captivity by day in their sight. You shall go from
your place into captivity to another place in their sight. It may be that they will consider,
though they are a rebellious house.
If God knows the future exhaustively, why would He say perhaps, or, some things will
happen, and they do not?
Heres what our all knowing God said to the prophet Jeremiah: Jer 3:6-8 The LORD said
also to me in the days of Josiah the king: [God is speaking.] Have you seen what
backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and under every
green tree, and there played the harlot. 7 And I said [God is speaking.], after she had done
all these things, She will return to Me But she did not return. And her treacherous sister
Judah saw it. 8 Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had
committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her
treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.
Another example is in Isaiah. God expected Israel to respond differently to His love. But
Israel didnt. This is shown in Isa 5:1-4 Now let me sing to my Well-beloved a song of
my Beloved regarding His vineyard: My Well-beloved has a vineyard on a very fruitful
hill. 2 He dug it up and cleared out its stones, and planted it with the choicest vine. He
built a tower in its midst, and also made a winepress in it; So He expected it to bring forth
good grapes, but it brought forth wild grapes. 3 [God is speaking.] And now, O
inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, judge, please, between Me and My vineyard.
4 What more could have been done to My vineyard that I have not done in it? Why then,
when I expected it to bring forth good grapes, did it bring forth wild grapes?
God could have made it sure by determining it would happen and then He could have
made it happen as He states in Is 46:9-11: [God is speaking.] Remember the former
things of old, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, 10
declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done,
saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure, 11 calling a bird of prey
from the east, the man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have
spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it. God predicts
these things and then makes them happen. But, in most cases, God does not make it
happen. Instead He implores His people to return to Him.

One more reason the Bible shows that God changes His mind because of mans actions is
the use of the Hebrew word na gham. In the nifil binyon of Hebrew, this word means to
repent, be comforted, etc. It is used of God as well as man. When it is used of man, sin is
usually involved. When it is used of God it shows He changes from a proposed or
declared action to a different action.
Here is an example where na gham is used by Job. When Job was talking to God, he said
in Job 42:5-6, I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You. 6
Therefore I abhor myself, and repent [na gham] in dust and ashes. This same word is
used of God repeatedly.
Gen 6:5-7 is one of the best examples, in my mind. Then the LORD saw that the
wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his
heart was only evil continually. 6 And the LORD repented that He had made man on the
earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I
have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of
the air, for I repent that I have made them.
Jud 2:18 And when the LORD raised up judges for them, the LORD was with the judge
and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for the
LORD was moved to pity [yi na ghaym is na gham] by their groaning because of those
who oppressed them and harassed them.
A very instructive case is 1 Sa 15:11,29,35. Here, God says He repented twice and that
He would not repent, once. I [repent] that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned
back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments. And it grieved
Samuel, and he cried out to the LORD all night. Then, when Samuel told Saul that God
had taken the kingdom from Saul and turned to leave, Saul grabbed his garment and it
tore. Then Samuel turned on Saul and told him that this would not cause God to change
His mind, as though He was a man.: 29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor
repent. For He is not a man, that He should repent. 35 And Samuel went no more to see
Saul until the day of his death. Nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul, and the LORD
repented, ni gham, that He had made Saul king over Israel.
Gods principles for repenting were laid out in Jer 18:1-10 The word which came to
Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 Arise and go down to the potters house, and there I
will cause you to hear My words. 3 Then I went down to the potters house, and there he
was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in
the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the
potter to make. 5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 6 O house of Israel,
can I not do with you as this potter? says the LORD. Look, as the clay is in the potters
hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation
and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation
against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will repent of the disaster that I thought
to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom,

to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice,
then I will repent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.
Finally, the Lord repented so many times in the OT that He said in Jer 15:6, You have
forsaken Me, says the LORD, You have gone backward. Therefore I will stretch out
My hand against you and destroy you; I am weary of repenting!
I hope this helps.
In Christ,
Bob
Question: Can God predestine some to be saved?
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I have one additional
question though.
We both agree that God does not predestine all people. But can he predestine some? Like
Paul, for example. In a way, he was "made" Christian. Under normal circumstances, Paul
would not have been Christian. In that case, did God predestine that Paul would be
saved?
In Christ,
Jordan
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Jordan,
God certainly can put pressure on people. He put it on Jonah and as you pointed out, He
put it on Paul, but He did not predestine Paul to be saved. God used Balaam against his
will, but Balaam wasn't even saved according to the New Testament. Unless the Bible
says that God predestines anyone to be saved, I surely would not say that He predestines
anyone for salvation. I'm willing to pursue this subject, but we must use biblical material
to make a positive statement. If we don't have biblical material, then we can make a
negative statement.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Where do you get the notion of Free Will?
Bob,
I stumbled across your webpage and found some interesting stuff. But what troubled me,
is upon reading much of your responses to issues that you are against, you preface the
answers you give with a philosophical presupposition. "Since we all have free will," or
"Because God made man to have free will,".
This is really a problem for you. Claiming to be biblical and then foisting ancient, mancentered philosophy on the bible is truly wrong. Even us non-schooled bible students can
see eisegesis when it pops up. Where in the bible did you get the notion that man has an
unchained, free will? Since when has he not been a slave of sin (if unconverted) or not a
slave of righteousness (if converted)? "Free will" is a myth I think. No where in the
scriptures does it teach this, but just the opposite. I would not take the time to write this if
I didn't care enough to speak, you are sadly mistaken in this matter. When you go running

to find the passages that you think make your point, then ask just how they will fit (given
your assumptions) with the plethora of clear passages to the contrary. Please use your
best arguments, for I am used to correcting all the standard excuses by now and frankly
hope that your foundation is not as sandy and sinking as it appears to be.
Paul Hartung
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Paul,
I sincerely appreciate your concern for me. I agree that it may look as though it is
eisegesis, but I only make those statements after thoroughly presenting exegetical reasons
for arriving at that conclusion. Please see the following document for the 1st chapter of
my book.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Calvinism Unmasked
Chapter 1
I'm a Calvinist
After I graduated from high school in 1951, I believed in Jesus Christ as my savior.
Shortly after that, I was discipled by a high school friend of mine who went to the church
where I got saved. Although the church was Arminian in theology, he was a Calvinist. All
the Scripture he showed me was interpreted from that viewpoint. Since the explanations
seemed reasonable to me, I became a strong advocate of Calvinism, reflecting Calvin's
statement in his Institutes:
No one who wishes to be thought religious dares simply deny predestination, by which
God adopts some to hope of life, and sentences others to eternal death. But our
opponents, especially those who make foreknowledge its cause, envelop it in numerous
petty objections. We indeed place both doctrines in God, but we say that subjecting one to
the other is absurd. When we attribute foreknowledge to God, we mean that all things
always were, and perpetually remain, under his eyes, so that to his knowledge there is
nothing future or past, but all things are present. And they are present in such a way that
he not only conceives them through ideas, as we have before us those things which our
minds remember, but he truly looks upon them and discerns them as things placed before
him. And this foreknowledge is extended throughout the universe to every creature. We
call predestination God's eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he
willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, eternal
life is foreordained for some, eternal damnation for others. Therefore, as any man has
been created to one or the other of these ends, we speak of him as predestined to life or to
death.
Later, I was influenced by my wife's dear uncle, who was a Universal Reconciliationist.
He showed me in 1 Timothy 2:3-6, that God willed all men to be saved:
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who wills all men to be
saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one

Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for
all, to be testified in due time.
He explained that not all were saved in this life, but all would eventually be reconciled to
God. He showed me that there were many ages in the Bible. This reconciliation would
happen at the end of the ages. This added to my problem. Now I was wrestling with two
doctrines - the doctrine of universal reconciliation, all will be reconciled to God, and
limited atonement, Christ died only for the elect. At that time it seemed that these were
my only choices. I believed God's word is true and there is consistency in the biblical
statements. Either God foreknew and predestined only the elect to be saved, or He
exhaustively foreknew the future and willed all to be saved. Which one was right? Did
God will only the elect to be saved? Or did He will all to be saved ultimately? I thought it
had to be one or the other.
A Breach in My Calvinist Armor
Shortly after we moved to California in 1957, my pastor presented an idea to me that was
new. He showed me another interpretation of Ephesians 1:4,5:
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and
without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus
Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
He explained to me that both the election and predestination here were corporate. He
pointed out in the passage that it didn't say individuals were chosen to be saved or
predestined to be saved. Instead, they were elected, because they were in the body of
Christ, to be holy and without blame, and predestined to the adoption as sons.
In a different way of looking at it, I also saw that the nation of Israel was God's elect, but
many in elect Israel did not believe and were, ultimately, not included in redeemed Israel,
God's elect nation. Isaiah 45:1-4 shows Israel is His elect: "Thus says the LORD to His
anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held - to subdue nations before him and loose
the armor of kings, to open before him the double doors, so that the gates will not be shut:
2 'I will go before you and make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the
gates of bronze and cut the bars of iron. 3 I will give you the treasures of darkness and
hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that I, the LORD, Who call you by
your name, am the God of Israel. 4 For Jacob My servant's sake, and Israel My elect, I
have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me."
These ideas were the first problems I faced in my Calvinistic belief. However, in my
mind, the idea of corporate election and predestination had a serious flaw which the
Scriptures did not seem to support. That problem could be stated as follows: In this
theory, in contrast to Calvin's view of predestination, God's foreknowledge was the basis
of His election and predestination. But, I reasoned as Calvin wrote, since to God "all
things always were, and perpetually remain, under his eyes, so that to his knowledge
there is nothing future or past, but all things are present", God knew everything as though
it were present. Then, since I could see from Scripture that His election and
predestination followed His foreknowledge, and since He knew everyone who was

foreknown, then God's predestination had to be individual just as His foreknowledge was.
I was right back where I started. I could not reconcile this apparent biblical antinomy or
paradox.
At this time of my life, this deterministic theology had a detrimental influence on my
attitudes about prayer. If God knew everything, and I believed He did; and if God
predestinated everything based on His foreknowledge, and I believed He did that too;
then, everything that I prayed was foreknown and predestined. If I didn't pray, that also
was predestined; then, it became easy to feel, why should I pray? Unfortunately, I ended
up having an abysmal prayer life. The only reason I prayed, I determined in my mind,
was because God commanded it in His word. I realized that Christ and Paul were zealous
in prayer, however, there was no zest in my prayers. Therefore, I recognized that
something was seriously wrong with my Christian life. I knew this was wrong but didn't
know what to do about it.
During this troublesome period, my wife and I visited her parents in Illinois. Her father
had a treasure trove of theological books. I was browsing through his books when I found
one by William E. Biederwolf titled, How Can God Answer Prayer? I began reading it
immediately. BOOK THREE chapter IV. had the title, "Why Pray if Everything Is
Predetermined by God?" That was exactly my dilemma. I eagerly turned to that page. He
had three answers based on three different explanations:
The first explanation declares that everything which comes to pass is first predetermined
in the mind of God. It declares that God's predestination precedes His foreknowledge as
the ground of certainty for human action. God only foreknows that which He has
predetermined to take place.
The second explanation, while admitting that God absolutely predetermines some things,
contends that such things as respect the government of his free moral agents are only
conditionally predetermined. God purposes to do under certain conditions, which depend
upon the free agency of man, what He would not do under other conditions. This
explanation further declares that God's foreknowledge precedes His predestination. God
only predetermines that which He foreknows will take place and the foreknowledge of
human action has no influence upon its taking place; it does not necessitate the action.
The third explanation denies that God's foreknowledge is necessarily all-comprehending.
The third explanation was a brand new idea to me. He then evaluated three suppositions.
He started with, "Suppose we accept". I will skip the first two explanations and will start
with his third supposition:
3. Suppose we accept the third explanation: the explanation which affirms that God's
foreknowledge and foreordination are not necessarily all-comprehending.
You shrink from an attitude of thought like that toward the Supreme Being. It appears,
does it not, to reflect discredit upon His perfection? Yet, let us not be too hasty in our
judgment. Many earnest and noted scholars defend the position and strenuously maintain
that not only does it not dishonor God, but that it is the only scheme of thought which
does not divest Him of the essential attributes of His divinity.

The position is quite clearly set forth in W.W. Kinsley's "Science and Prayer," . . . This
explanation, if it may be maintained consistently with the perfection of God's character,
relieves us, of course, of the difficulty in question.
It is contended by the advocates of this explanation, that when God created us in His own
image and made us equally with Himself of sovereign will (and we know we are free to
choose as we will) by His very so doing He surrendered at least partially His control over
us and of necessity limited thereby His foreknowledge concerning us. Plainly it is the old
time-worn controversy between two great schools of theology; between God's
sovereignty on one side (involving as it does His absolute foreknowledge and
predestination) and man's free will on the other, and between the horns of such a dilemma
the only thing to do is to confess a wise ignorance and hang on to both.
A controversion of God's perfect foreknowledge does not set well with most of us,
regardless of our denominational bias. The fear, however, of any belittling conception of
God its advocates would overcome by showing what the theory of such foreknowledge
really involves, leaving us to decide which is the greater injustice, if any, to the all-perfect
character of God.
The following from the work above quoted on "Science and Prayer" will help us to an
appreciation, if so be such is possible, of the position assumed by the advocates of the
limited knowledge theory. The author says: "No petitioner can plead with any genuine
unction unless he believes that he can actually effect some change in the purposes
existing in the divine mind at the time his prayer is offered. . . . If God foreknows
everything that will ever come to pass, all His own mental states must necessarily be
included in that foreknowledge. A moment's reflection will convince us that otherwise
there is not a single present intention or plan but what is exposed to the possibility of
modification. If a single thought or emotion is ever going to spring up in God's mind
unanticipated, God Himself must be as ignorant as we as to what part of His vast plan it
will pertain. And so, if we would logically defend a belief in the all-comprehensiveness
of God's foreknowledge, we must affirm that not a single new idea can arise in His mindnot a single new emotion be felt-and that if He is thus limited now He must have been
equally so at every moment in all the eternal past, and must be through all the years to
come; for if there ever has been, or ever will be, a moment when a new thought can thus
come, then during all the time preceding that moment the foreknowledge was incomplete.
Where does this lead? In what sort of an intellectual or emotional condition does this
irrefragable logic compel us to assert God to be continually? Unquestionably that of
perfect stagnation. No thought processes can be carried on under such conditions-no
succession of ideas, no change of mental state; but God must have been and must still be
imprisoned in a hopelessly dead calm. . . . When, then, did He form His plans for
creation? Under this supposition there never could have been a time when He began to
think about them. . . . If God has had no thought succession, He can have had no feeling;
His emotional state having ever necessarily been that of unbroken placidity-of absolute
apathy, His heart throbless as a stone. He could experience no change of feeling, for that

would involve thought-succession. From all the sources of joy or sorrow of which we can
conceive He would be utterly debarred - from pleasurable or painful memories, from
hopes and forebodings, from social sympathies, from emotions that accompany changes,
contrasts, surprises, from the glow of activity, even from the delights and griefs of
contemplation; for they all involve thought-movement. Therefore, under this supposition
God can have no emotional activity, for He would have no thought-activity for its
background. Thoughts must, of course, come and go, or the heart lies dead." "Such," he
says, "are the absurdities in which we become hopelessly entangled the moment we
attempt to defend the doctrine of God's perfect foreknowledge."
This was astounding to me. If this were true, it would change everything. But he had
presented no Scripture to back up the argument. It was just philosophical reasoning. I had
already been shown and then studied God's word on this subject. The Bible said that God
worked all things after the counsel of His will. But I thought about his statements. I must
find a copy of that book, Science and Prayer, and see if there was any Scripture to back
up this argument.
I relentlessly searched until I finally found the book in a used book store. I avidly read it,
but it also was very philosophical. However, he wrote: "The doctrine of God's perfect
foreknowledge is not only unphilosophical, but also unscriptural." That encouraged me to
read further. I got to the part that Biederwolf had quoted. Then I realized Biederwolf had
skipped the most important part, for me, the reference to Scripture. It was there! Kinsley
even admonished the reader:
Read if you will the ninth chapter of Deuteronomy. Moses here rehearses the several
rebellions of Israel, and his three separate pleadings before the Lord, of forty days and
forty nights each, without either eating bread or drinking water. Each time he fell down
before a very angry God who had fully purposed, and had definitely announced his
purpose to destroy the rebels, and each time, if Moses can be credited, he actually
changed that purpose right then and there and rescued his people. The God here depicted
had none of that foreknowledge which theologians with such strange unanimity ascribe to
him. But, say you, [And many have made these statements often.] that and similar
accounts scattered throughout the Bible are simply instances of anthropomorphism, of
rhetorical accommodation, of describing in the language of human experiences and
human limitations what really transcends the human; that it was not the intent to have
these narrations interpreted as literal history, but as poetic approximations of dim
shadowings of really ineffable truths. It seems to me that it would be a strange way to
bring the truth within our comprehension, to state what is directly opposed to the truth,
and to reiterate the downright falsehood again and again, in a most misleading way, and
in a matter of such vital moment that all possibility of religious life depends on it, and
through which alone any lasting comfort comes to the hungry human soul.
What happened next changed my life. I read Deuteronomy 9 with a searching heart. Here
is what shattered the foundations of my Calvinistic system of theology:

Deu 9:8-19 Also in Horeb you provoked the Lord to wrath, so that the Lord was angry
enough with you to have destroyed you. 9 When I went up into the mountain to receive
the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant which the Lord made with you, then I
stayed on the mountain forty days and forty nights. I neither ate bread nor drank water. 10
Then the Lord delivered to me two tablets of stone written with the finger of God, and on
them were all the words which the Lord had spoken to you on the mountain from the
midst of the fire in the day of the assembly. 11 And it came to pass, at the end of forty
days and forty nights, that the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the
covenant. 12 Then the Lord said to me, 'Arise, go down quickly from here, for your
people whom you brought out of Egypt have acted corruptly; they have quickly turned
aside from the way which I commanded them; they have made themselves a molded
image.' 13 Furthermore the Lord spoke to me, saying, "I have seen this people, and
indeed they are a stiff-necked people. 14 Let Me alone, that I may destroy them and blot
out their name from under heaven; and I will make of you a nation mightier and greater
than they." 15 So I turned and came down from the mountain, and the mountain burned
with fire; and the two tablets of the covenant were in my two hands. 16 And I looked, and
behold, you had sinned against the Lord your God-had made for yourselves a molded
calf! You had turned aside quickly from the way which the Lord had commanded you. 17
Then I took the two tablets and threw them out of my two hands and broke them before
your eyes. 18 And I fell down before the Lord, as at the first, forty days and forty nights; I
neither ate bread nor drank water, because of all your sin which you committed in doing
wickedly in the sight of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger. 19 For I was afraid of the
anger and hot displeasure with which the Lord was angry with you, to destroy you. But
the Lord listened to me at that time also.
This Scripture shattered my presuppositions. Along with other Scripture it undermined
my Calvinistic mindset about the immutability of God. Here was Scripture I had read but
never grasped before. Before long, I found that there was a vast amount of Scripture
which showed that God changed His mind - even repented. Since that time, I have
studied the Bible on this issue for thousands of hours. This book is the result of my
studies.
Question: Where do you get the notion of Free Will? Part 2
Dear Bob,
Thank you for your prompt return, however I was hoping for a response to my objection
regarding man's so-called free will. While I have a few thoughts regarding your book
chapter, I am surprised that you were not anxious to defend your basic assumption.
Maybe next time.
The brand of "calvinism" you spoke of reminds me of an assent to a formula or scheme
rather than convictions based on thorough study and unifying of the whole of scripture.
Sort of the problem many in the reformed community suffers from today, assuming the
truth is plainly evident without the hard work of devoted study, and teaching others by
skipping over the "hard" aspects which the carnal mind always trips on. It seems to me,

that a universal human propensity appears whenever folks take the path of least
resistance. Finding that comfortable place to set up camp is a most high value for those
who don't wrestle intellectually, I fight it at times myself. However the sorts of things one
is willing to bury for the sake of sleeping well at night are tragedies of the most egregious
kinds.
I take it then that you hold to the "open" view of God. If you have believed this way for
so long, then you probably don't feel what I feel when the sovereignty of God is reduced
to man's level. That distinction gets adjusted by every generation, this one is nothing new
historically.
One of the obvious (to myself) flaws in the logic is evident in the quote of "Science and
Prayer" which says, "No petitioner can plead with any genuine unction unless he believes
he can actually effect some change in the purposes existing in the divine mind at the time
his prayer is offered...If God foreknows everything that will come to pass, all His own
mental states must be included in that foreknowledge..." If God were a man, this would
seem true. If He were not infinitely complex in His desires we could make a like
statement. But those "if's" are not the case, biblically speaking. I can have "genuine
unction" without believing that MY PETITIONS MUST change the mind of God in order
to have my prayers answered, especially if God has ordained my very prayers in His will
in the first place. Such an imperative fails to make the distinction between
Creator/creation intellectually. Likewise, God's mental states are not full compehended by
any but Himself, and is not subject to our finite limitations. To say that the Lord's "mental
states" MUST BE KNOWN at the time He conceived His decretive will is to beg a
prerogative we cannot possess.
To further add a wrinkle to the situation, consider the levels of willing in God in
Lamentations 3:31-33. He CAUSES grief, but He does not WILLINGLY AFFLICT (lit.
"from His heart" in Hebrew) nor grieve men. So He DOES what He DOESN'T WANT, in
other words He WILLS what He DOESN'T WILL. How do you make this mesh with
what you know of Him clearly? Can God be complex enough to have two wills? What He
would like to do, and what He actually decrees? I don't like to discipline my son, but I do
for a much greater purpose. And if a mere man can have two wills in tension, what is God
incapable of having?
The reason Kinsley believes his logic to be "irrefragable" is that he assumed like
limitations on the God of the bible as that of himself. Sad. Like a freight train such logic
pores through to a man-like, man-centered end. And using your example of Moses, then
ultimately Moses is the savior of Israel for diffusing the hostilities of God. Praise Moses!
Do you think Deut. 9 has never been considered by those who hold to the sovereignty
promoted in scripture? Is it possible God was developing Moses' character in His
dealings with Israel? Is He insincere for forgiving Israel-or you and I? Can't God hate sin,
and still have a forebearance towards those He is demonstrating His glory through?
Funny how many limitations are put on God "necessarily" through carnal logic, but this
kind of logic would indict God for forgiving anyone at all!

I realize you probably view any exertion on God's part upon man would render Him a
robot or some other hyperbole, but again, where is your assumption "free will" taught in
the bible? I have a will, but it is so utterly influenced I cannot even distinguish all the
factors. To say that man is self determining ultimately, as a reflection of the Creator's own
self image, is to fall headlong into the same desire as Eve wanting to be like God. And
nowhere can such statements be found in scripture. To say that man MUST be self
determining in order to have accountability in judgment before the throne of God (as all
sophists say), is to go way beyond the revealed word erroneously.
I await your response. Thank you.
Paul Hartung
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Paul,
Thank you for your fine email. It was intelligent, it was consistent, it was to the point and
most of all it was written in a manner becoming to a Christian. I receive many emails that
do not even sound like they were written by a Christian.
When you wrote: "I take it then that you hold to the "open" view of God. If you have
believed this way for so long, then you probably don't feel what I feel when the
sovereignty of God is reduced to man's level."
I agree that free-will can be thought of in that manner if the critic does not really read my
view of God. In no way does my "Open View" reduce God to man's level. God is so
awesomely powerful that He runs the whole universe and knows everything so He can, in
the present, overcome any diabolical threat to His eternal purpose. He would interfere
with the freedom of that being though, and I would be very happy He did.
In 1 Ti 2:4 it says God "desires [qelei wills (Greek font is Logos GraecaII.)] all men to be
saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." God wills it, but I agree with you that
man is "in fact in slavery (just the opposite of 'freedom') to our natures". Left to
ourselves, no one would trust Christ as his Savior. But that's your point as well as mine.
We are not left to ourselves. In 2 Pe 3:9 it says, "The Lord is not slack concerning His
promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not counseling any to
perish but all to have room for repentance."
The Greek for come [have room] is cwrew. The basic meaning of this word is "have
room, accommodate." All the definitions in BGD are nuances of this basic meaning.
Matthew 19:11-12 is a good example. "But He said to them, 'All cannot accept (cwrew)
this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 12 For there are eunuchs who were
born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by
men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of
heaven's sake. He who is able to accept (cwrew) it, let him accept (cwrew) it.'" cwrew,
occurs 10 times in the following references: Mat 15:17; Mat 19:11,12; Mk 2:2; John 2:6;
John 8:37; John 21:25; 2 Co 7:2; 2 Pe 3:9. In the KJV it is translated receive 3, contain 2,
come 1 [our verse], go 1, have place 1, receive 1, be room to receive 1. In the NKJV it is
translated accept 3, goes 1, room to receive 1, containing 1, has place 1, could contain 1,

and open 1. It is defined 1) to leave space (which may be filled or occupied by another),
to make room, give place, yield 1a) to retire 1b) metaphorically, to betake one's self, turn
one's self 2) to go forward, advance, proceed, succeed 3) to have space or room for
receiving or holding something.
The word "willing" which I have translated counseling, here, is boulomeno",. no one can
prevent His counsel, boulhv, from happening. He is going to bring His counsel, boulhv, to
pass. The participle, boulomeno", counseling, which correlates to the word counsel,
boulhv, is found in this passage. I want to give my translation of 2 Pe 3:9 again. "The
Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness but is long-suffering
toward us, not counseling, boulomeno", any to perish but [counseling] all to have room
for repentance." No one has resisted His counsel. He has determined that everyone will
have room for repentance, and they do. But they can resist His counsel for them. Luke
7:30 shows us that.
In addition to that, we see this truth stated in a different way in John 1:9 "That was the
true Light which enlightens every man coming into the world." We may not have been
able to believe on our own, but God enlightened everyone coming into the world and
counseled that everyone would have room for faith in their being.
Of course, He went further. He made sure that everyone in the world heard the word. Col
1:5,6 "because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before
in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the
world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and
knew the grace of God in truth." That concept was reiterated in Col 1:23, "if indeed you
continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of
the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of
which I, Paul, became a minister."
Next, this Word of God generates faith in those who hear "as it has also in all the world,
and is bringing forth fruit" from it: Rom 10:17,18 "So then faith comes by hearing, and
hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: 'Their sound
has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.'"
Finally, John 12:32 has the Lord Jesus Christ say, "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth,
will draw all to Myself." He has done that, but not all have responded.
One of the greatest corollaries to free will, as defined above, would be man's ability to
hinder God's will. Man can do that because God created man with the ability to make
choices contrary to His will as shown by the general response to 1 Ti 2:4. God "desires
[wills] all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." Yet all men are not
saved. Even Christians reject the will of God. Everyone of us have. 1 Th 4:3-7 For this is
the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4
that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take
advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all

such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness,
but in holiness.
In the verse I mentioned in Luke, before it shows that the Pharisees rejected God's
counsel. Lk 7:30 "But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will [counsel, as above] of
God for themselves, not having been baptized by him." And untold millions have rejected
His counsel for them since that time. Though man does reject God's counsel for himself
and does resist His will, no one can resist His counsel as it pertains to His purpose. Rom
9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will
[counsel]?" The answer is, no one.
An interesting problem for non-dispensational Calvinists is 2 Pe 1:10, where they are
instructed to make their election sure. If God unconditionally elected them to be saved,
they wouldn't have to make it sure. "Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make
your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble."
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: More questions Romans 8:29-32
Rom 8:29-32 gives the whole plan: For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be
conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also
justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified
it sounds like ppl in this verse are predestined, yes to be conformed to the image of christ,
but in this process it saysthose predesdined to be comformed to his likness are also
predestined to be called?
*these* he called..then *these* he called he also justified..so if you are called you will be
justified?
if this talks about everyone being called "God so loved the world" then why arn't all
justified and glorified? it looks from the surface only the predestined ones are called into
this process of eventually being conformed to his image
i thought he calls all..but do all make it to the next 2 stages of this process..justified and
glorified?
i don't believe in predestination unto salvation as calvin did..
God predestines those it pleases him to hell, thats abhorrent to me..
but im a little confused about this process above as you can tell :)
danny
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Danny,
I believe we should start with Rom 8:28. It should be literally translated this way: And
we know that He [God] works with those loving God, with those called according to
[His] purpose all things for good.
I would rather translate it more smoothly, like this: Rom 8:28-30, And we know that
God works with those who love God, with those who are the called according to His

purpose all things for good. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be
conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also
justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
I believe this is not predestination of individuals. It is predestination of the corporate
body of Christ which God fitted for glory. As we believe and become part of His body,
we then are part of the body that will become glorified. God not only worked with Israel
but works with us too. He did not foreknow individuals. He foreknew and elected Christ,
Israel, and the body of Christ.
When we trust in Christ, the Holy Spirit seals us and identifies us with Christ. After we
are identified with Christ by our salvation, we become part of His predestined purpose. In
other words, once we are saved we are predestined, as members of His body, to be
conformed to Christs image. Notice, it does not say we are predestined to be saved. It
says we are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. This verse is
excellent to show our security. Our security is absolute because we are predestined. Our
salvation is not predestined.
Eph 1 is similar to this passage: Eph 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord
Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in
Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, to be holy and
without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus
Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory
of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have
redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His
grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made
known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed
in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather
together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth -- in
Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the
purpose of Him who works the all things [the body of Christ] according to the counsel of
His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In
Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in
whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is
the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the
praise of His glory.
The phrase works with is translated from (sunergei). This word is found 5 times in the
NT. The NKJV translators always translated it works with except in the most important
passage, Rom 8:28.
Mark 16:20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with (tou
kuriou sunergountos) them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs.
Amen.
1 Co 16:16 submit to such, and to everyone who works (sunergounti) and labors with us.

2 Co 5:22-6:1 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become
the righteousness of God in Him. 1 We then, as workers together (sunergountes) with
Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain.
James 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with (sunayrgei) his works, and
by works faith was made perfect?
When we look at the alleged problem in Rom 8:29, I think it is good to look at Gods
repentance when He changed His mind after Moses prayed in Ex 32:9-14. However, Ex
32:9-14 is not about God not knowing any of the future. God knows the future of the
events He predetermines. In fact, that is exactly what our passage shows. He said in Rom
8:29,30: For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of
His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He
predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He
justified, these He also glorified.
In Isa 46:9-11, God shows us how He can declare what is going to happen in the future.
He makes it happen. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times
things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My
pleasure, calling a bird of prey from the east, the man who executes My counsel, from a
far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will
also do it. When He said my counsel shall stand, immediately He said, and I will do
all My pleasure. Then He tells us how He will do it calling a bird of prey from the
east, the man who executes My counsel, from a far country. This occurred about 150
years later.
In Eph 1:11, He made a statement similar to Rom 8:28-30. In Him also we have
obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works
[the] all things (ta panta) according to the counsel of His will In this sentence, I added
this definite article [the] in front of all things because the Greek had (ta panta) all things
with a definite article. When all things has a definite article it most likely is not referring
to a universal all things but the all things limited by the context. The specific all things
He is referring to is the body of Christ of verses 10 and 23, that in the dispensation of
the fullness of the times He might gather together in one [the] all things (ta panta) in
Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth in Him (1:10); which is His
body, the fullness of Him who fills all (ta panta) in all (1:23).
This concerns our eternal security, since in Eph 1:4,5, He chose us in Him before the
foundation of the world, [to] be holy and blameless before Him in love, having
predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Him, according to the good pleasure
of His will. He chose the body of Christ to be holy and blameless before Him making it
sure by His predestination.
Now, it doesnt say He chose us as individuals to be saved. It says He chose us in Him.
Because we are in Christ, we are chosen. Christ is the elect one. We become members of
the body of Christ by believing. Once we believe we are part of a corporate body, the

predestined corporation composed of all those who have trusted in Christ from Paul to the
last one before the rapture.
Therefore, my conclusion is: We are not foreknown as individuals, chosen as individuals,
or predestined as individuals. It is the body of Christ that is foreknown and predestined.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Romans 8:29-32
lets try this.
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them
who are the called according to his purpose.(the Body)?
29. For whom he did foreknow, (body of Christ)? he also did predestinate to be
conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, (Body of Christ)? them he also called:(Body of
Christ)? and whom he called,(body of Christ)? them he also justified: and whom he
justified,(Body of Christ)? them he also glorified.(The body of Christ)?
its still hard for me to grasp for some reason..I think if there was something in this
process that said and "Whom" believed upon him" after the calling part "he justified "
and He glorified..it would be easier for me to grasp and be more consistent with
Ephesians 1:13..
here is how I keep seeing these verses
GOD predestined *Them* he then *Calls* them and those he calls are the ones he
justifies (why would he call the body of Christ those already in the body) if this means
them? calls them to what? I guess is my question..what is God calling them *The body*
to? which comes before there justified, if they are already in the body there already
justified and there is no need to call them unto salvation...right?
see how confused I am :)
even though I understand about the corporate body bearing chosen IN Christ to
BECOME something holy and blameless ect..(before the foundation of the world) ect
as for Gods foreknowledge the more I study that issue the more I believe he limits
himself in that area..why create beings who you already know are going to become so
wicked then lament and repent over it?..doesn't make any sence, why peruse Israel his
"vineyard" if he already knows there is no hope, nothing he does will work..that doesn't
make sence unless he KNOWS there is a chance, because he has given them free will..
and he KNOWS he has.:)
and as you know there are many scriptures that show us he has chosen not to know, but
does show us he KNOWS we have a free will :) in that he repents over even making
man..or he is frustrated with his vineyard..ect
if I knew my wife would not want me no matter what..I would not waist my time..
thanks for being patient with me..I spend allot of time listening to you and bob enyart and
searching the scriptures.."the plot" and something's I read on your site really gave me my
desire back to spend time in the Word..

the reason I started researching "Calvinism" the 5 points is because a lady came into our
chatroom and said God predestines ppl to hell..that made me mad..we had a long email
debate..and she was very persuasive..in some of what she was saying..but she kept flip
flopping in her definenition of predestination..that's and active word not a passive..her
first definition was correct "pre-determine" but after my rebuttal she changed her
definition to a passive, "that God in a passive way predestines ppl to hell in that he just
doesn't bother to reach out to them" lol..predestination can't be passive
anyways I continue to study this topic as it will not go out of my mind
Ezek 18-23. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God:
and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
18-32 32. For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God:
wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye
Isaiah 45 21. Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath
declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and
there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is
none else.
Danny/Renee
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Danny,
If this were predestination the way the Calvinists believe, all of these actions would take
place outside of time at the same (time) since I can't think of a better word. They seem to
be done by God simultaneously in time as far as I'm concerned.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Before the world began?
In 2 Timothy 1:9,10 it says, Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not
according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us
in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10. But is now made manifest by the appearing of
our Savior Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality
to light through the gospel.
What does this mean? Does it mean God knew man was going to fall and he had already
had his plan of redemption ready? and now those who are IN Christ receive that grace?
danny
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Danny,
God had a plan for the body of Christ before the ages. There are three scripture verses
which support the following concepts, before age times, age times, and the cessation of
age times. They are 1 Co 2:7; 2 Ti 1:9; 1 Co 15:24. I believe the Bible shows us that in
the end, God will bring about His purpose for this world. I believe the passage you asked
about has to be retranslated.

In the following material, ws are omegas. aiwn, the noun, and aiwnios, the adjective,
have a variety of meanings. aion is a long period of time and aionios describes an
indefinite period of time.
Only after we study the Scriptures can we evaluate the biblical material containing the
words aiwn, and aiwnios and make a decision. For instance, in the verses below it says
that the mystery was kept secret in cronois aioniois, age times, but now has been
manifest. Here, cronois aioniois is not eternal.
Rom 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the
preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the
world began (Literally in age times cronois aioniois) 26 but now has been made manifest,
and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the
commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith-This next one is similar to 2 Ti 1:9. Tit 1:2 in hope of eternal (aiwniou) life which God,
who cannot lie, promised before time began (Literally, pro cronwn aiwniwn before age
times.)
Consider Heb 9:25,26: not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters
the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another 26 He then would have had to
suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages
(sunteleia twn aiwnwn), He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. We
can see that Christ put away sin at the completion of the ages. Now, if we plugged in the
word time as many sources do, we would have, the end of times.
But according to Eph 2:7, that in the ages to come (tois aiwsi tois epercomenois) He
might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus,
there are still ages to come. It seems ridiculous to try to make this say this means in the
time to come when we have a word for time. Therefore, what Hebrews 9:25,26 shows is
that Christ was manifested at the completion of at least two ages to put away sin.
1 Co 10:11 is even tougher. Paul states that, things happened to them as examples, and
they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. This
would have to mean that the end of time came upon Paul and the Corinthians. But we
know it didnt. Now, in contrast to that, if the ends of the ages had come on the
Corinthians two thousand years ago, and Christ, once, at the end of the ages, put away
sin, then, when did they end? The time of the end of all ages could not be at the time of
Christ or the Corinthians because of the statement in Ephesians 2:7.
But, getting back to the meaning, before age times, God seems to have a plan for the
ages. This appears to be the plan He had for the created beings that would inhabit this
universe. I think it would include angels and man. 2 Ti 1:9 God, has saved us and called
us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and
grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before age times.
I believe that God knows everything that is knowable. How was this grace given to us
before age times? I believe, from this material, that God determined before the ages that
Christ would have a body of believers who would be holy and blameless before Him. If

Adam had not fallen, we would be holy and blameless because we had not sinned. But I
believe God knew that this was not realistic. Therefore, we see that Christ was foreknown
before the foundation of the world: 1 Peter 1:20 He indeed was foreknown
(proegnwsmevnou means foreknown) before the foundation of the world, but was
manifest in these last times for you
We find in the 10th verse that this gracious gift was made possible by the Savior, Jesus
Christ when He died for us. 2 Ti 1:10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our
Savior, Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light
through the gospel.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Will there be free will in heaven?
Mr. Hill,
Will we be free will beings in Heaven? Angels obviously have free will for Lucifer chose
to disobey. If we have free will in Heaven, will we be free to do evil and to hate as on
Earth?
Thank you,
Jason
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Jason,
Thats an extremely good question. The Bible does not speak to that issue, but I will tell
you what I think. To begin, most Christians really dont want to sin here on the earth. I
know I dont, but we have this thing called flesh while we are on the earth.
Rom 8:2-7 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law
of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh,
God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He
condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled
in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who
live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live
according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but
the mind of the Spirit is life and peace. 7 Because the mind of the flesh is enmity against
God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
When we are raptured or resurrected, we will get spiritual bodies and we wont have that
thing called flesh anymore. Then, we wont have those constant temptations aroused in
the flesh.
1 Co 15:42-54 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it
is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in
weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first
man Adam became a living being. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first

man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was
the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so
also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh
and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed -- 52 in a
moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and
the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible
must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this
corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be
brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.
After a person gets saved, he tends to grow in the Lord if he meditates on Gods word and
focuses on loving God. Those tendencies lead to a godly life even here on the earth. In
heaven there will be no temptation. Also, we will be in the presence of the Lord God.
Therefore, I believe we will really have free will in heaven. For the first time in my life I
will be free to choose to always do what God wants me to do without the fleshs corrupt
promptings. We will not want to sin, and I think we wont. That will be just like the
angels who did not sin like Lucifer and his angels.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Predestination versus Freewill
Dear Bob
Background
I recently send an email copy of your web-page that Discussed Predestination and Freewill to a godly pastor of a Reformed Baptist Church here in sunny South Africa.
I invited him to review your page and to comment back to me about it.
He replied by stating "Oh, this guy is an Open Theist", and gave me a copy of "No Other
God" by John M. Frame.
Question: What tactics would you recommend (if any) for me to pursue the next round of
our discussions?
God Bless You for your service to the truth of Jesus Christ
Leslie Crickmay
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Leslie,
Gods Word has an overwhelming amount of evidence about God being open rather than
locked in without being able to change anything in the future. This is a very important
subject for believers, especially if they are doing what Christ wants them to do, leading
others to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, I would read Frames
book and make notes in the margins.
I just finished reading 5 books in a row by Calvinists against the Open View of God. I
made notes in all of them. I am in the process of writing a book on the subject right now.

The first 4 chapters are on our web site. I have revised them some, and I have recently
written the 5th chapter. I am attempting to respond to every positive and every
questionable passage that could be construed to be showing a closed God. I will be happy
to send you the answer to any questions you may have. I have been working on this
material for over 40 years.
After you are sure of what you believe, then, I would send your statements and questions
one by one to your pastor friend for his response. It will be a great learning process for
you, and hopefully, him.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Was only Israel chosen for salvation before the dispensation of grace?
Was only Israel chosen for salvation (before the dispensation of grace)? I know that 1
Tim. 2:4 says that God wants all men to be saved, that means from the start to the finish
of creation, right? I ask this because I was told that the word "world" in John 3:16, means
only believers, or only Israel. So was the plan for only Israel to obtain salvation? If not,
what was Israel chosen for; why were they called God's chosen people?
Please explain your thoughts on this
Thank you!
Dusti
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Dusti,
In Romans 1:18-32 we find that God gave up the world. He did this to start over again
with His plan of redemption. "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19
because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they
[Everyone, since there were no Jews until Abraham's nation was formed out of his
offspring.] are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify
Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish
hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the
glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man-and birds and
four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to
uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25
who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather
than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to
vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for
one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the
penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in
their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not

fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness,

covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they
are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil
things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,
unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice
such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who
practice them."
I believe the time of this chapter is after the flood. God had already destroyed the world
in the flood. He started over again with Noah and then called Abram out of Ur. Then, we
find that because of great sin, again, all the world became guilty before God. God's
conclusion to this section is in Rom 3:9-20: What then? Are we better than they? Not at
all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10
As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together
become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." 13 "Their throat is an
open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under
their lips"; 14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to
shed blood; 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways; 17 And the way of peace they
have not known." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." 19 Now we know that
whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be
stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of
the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
God's condemnation upon all was to display His mercy to all. That's what it says at the
conclusion of the doctrinal portion of Romans, Rom 11:32: "For God has committed
them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all."
In 1 Chronicles it refers to Israel as God's chosen. 1 Ch 16:13 "O seed of Israel His
servant, you children of Jacob, His chosen ones!" It does the same in Isa 43:20, "The
beast of the field will honor Me, the jackals and the ostriches, because I give waters in the
wilderness and rivers in the desert, to give drink to My people, My chosen." But all was
not going as it should. Israel forsook God in spite of the conditional promise of Ex 19:46: You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and
brought you to Myself. 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My
covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is
Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.
The nation was elect, but the individuals had to "obey My voice and keep My covenant"
if they were to remain part of the elect. This election within Israel depended on
obedience. The real elect were those who obeyed God. This was used by Paul to show
why most of Israel were hardened. God required obedience.
There was even a remnant of believing Israel to whom Paul was referring in Romans
11:5-7: Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of
grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.

But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. 7 What

then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest
were blinded.
Israel was broken off from God's grace, the opportunity available in the olive tree,
because of unbelief according to Rom 11:20-23: Well said. Because of unbelief they were
broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not
spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the
goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if
you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if
they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
So, as it was in the OT, we see elect Israel could be lost. Our election is sure because God
has sealed us and predestined our adoption. In Romans 9:6-8, 30-32 we see the
importance God lays on our belief: But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect.
For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are
the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called. 8 That is, those who are the
children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are
counted as the seed. 30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue
righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but
Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32
Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For
they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
How was Abram justified when God gave him the promise in Gen 15:5,6? He simply
believed: Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count
the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants
be." 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. God
inspired Paul to write it even more clearly in Gal 3:5-9: Therefore He who supplies the
Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by
the hearing of faith?- 6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for
righteousness." 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the
gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." 9 So then
those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
I hope this answers your question.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: If God knows everything that is going to happen, then what does it matter what
I believe?
Hi, my name is Robin and I am a Christian. I have a nephew who is 20 yrs old. He was
raised by 2 Christian parents. He and I got into a discussion about how now he doesn't
believe in God. I was shocked to find this out. When I tried to discuss this with him, he
came up with two questions that I am embarrassed to admit that I had no answers for.

1. If God exists, where did he come from ? I told him that God has always existed . That
He is the beginning and the end.
2. If God knows everything that is going to happen.....if my life is already planned out,
then what does it matter what I believe??
This was a tough one for me. This is something that I have often wondered myself....I
told him that God gives us a choice. We can either choose Him or eternal suffering. The
choice is ours, but He knows what we will choose.
Any help with these questions would greatly be appreciated. Also if you know of any
good books that answer questions for people that doubt God and Christianity I would
appreciate you helping in this area.
Thanks so much.
Your friend in Christ,
Robin
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Robin,
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God knows all the future. In fact, when we read the
Bible carefully, we find that when God says He foreknows something, He makes it
happen. Notice what it says in Isa 46:9-11 Remember the former things of old, for I am
God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, 10 Declaring the end
from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, My
counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure, 11 Calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man who executes My counsel, from a far country. [This is probably referring to the
future Cyrus.] Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I
will also do it. (NKJV)
We also find that God changes His mind, is grieved with our actions, and repents of good
or punishment that He said He would do, at times. Here is the biblical evidence for these
statements.
Gen 6:4-9 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons
of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the
mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness
of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only
evil continually. 6 And the Lord repented [it repented the LORD] that He had made man
on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, I will destroy man
whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and
birds of the air, for I repent that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of
the Lord. 9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his
generations. Noah walked with God.
Ex 32:9-14 And the Lord said to Moses, I have seen this people, and indeed it is a stiffnecked people! 10 Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may burn hot against them
and I may consume them. And I will make of you a great nation. 11 Then Moses pleaded
with the Lord his God, and said: Lord, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people

whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty
hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, `He brought them out to harm them,
to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from
Your fierce wrath, and repent from this harm to Your people. 13 Remember Abraham,
Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, I
will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken
of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever. 14 So the Lord repented
from the harm which He said He would do to His people.
Psa 106:45 And for their sake He remembered His covenant and repented according to
the multitude of His mercies.
Jer 15:6 You have forsaken Me, says the Lord, You have gone backward. Therefore I will
stretch out My hand against you and destroy you; I am weary of repenting!
Jer 18:7-12 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck
up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from
its evil, I will repent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I
speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does
evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will repent concerning the good
with which I said I would benefit it. 11 Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to
the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus says the Lord: Behold, I am fashioning a
disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and
make your ways and your doings good. 12 And they said, That is hopeless! So we will
walk according to our own plans, and we will every one obey the dictates of his evil
heart.
Jer 20:16 And let that man be like the cities Which the Lord overthrew, and did not
repent; Let him hear the cry in the morning And the shouting at noon,
Jer 26:2,3,13,18 Thus says the Lord: Stand in the court of the Lords house, and speak to
all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the Lords house, all the words that I
command you to speak to them. Do not diminish a word. 3 Perhaps everyone will listen
and turn from his evil way, that I may repent concerning the calamity which I purpose to
bring on them because of the evil of their doings. 13 Now therefore, amend your ways
and your doings, and obey the voice of the Lord your God; then the Lord will repent
concerning the doom that He has pronounced against you. 18 Micah of Moresheth
prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and spoke to all the people of Judah,
saying, Thus says the Lord of hosts: Zion shall be plowed like a field, Jerusalem shall
become heaps of ruins, and the mountain of the temple like the bare hills of the forest. 19
Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah ever put him to death? Did he not fear the Lord
and seek the Lords favor? And the Lord repented concerning the doom which He had
pronounced against them. But we are doing great evil against ourselves.
Jonah 3:6-4:2 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and
laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to
be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his

nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them
eat, or drink water. 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to
God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that
we may not perish? 10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way;
and God repented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He
did not do it. 4:1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he
prayed to the Lord, and said, Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my
country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and
merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who repents from
doing harm.
From these passages it is clear that God changes His mind because of mercy, compassion,
or righteous judgment. The Bible shows God is immutable, unchanging, in His character,
love, mercy, but He is not immutable in the sense of those who have based their theology
on the Greek philosophy which states that God is outside of time. I have shown that God
repented or changed His mind in many portions of Scripture. There are many more, too.
But this is not a change in His character; it is usually a change in His stated actions
toward man. Our God is a God of mercy, love, compassion and passion. What a
wonderful God is He!
He loves us and has made the provision for us to have eternal life. I am attaching a
booklet I wrote on Predestination and Free Will.
In Christ,
Bib Hill
Question: If predestination is true, why do we still need to pray?
If predestination is true, why do we still need to pray?
Dan
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Dan,
When you asked me, "If predestination is true, why do we still need to pray?", you hit the
nail right on the head. This idea was the first problem I faced in my Calvinistic belief.
However, after I talked with my pastor, about 44 years ago, when he thought he had the
solution by saying the body of Christ was corporately predestined, it didn't help. In my
mind, the idea of corporate election and predestination had a serious flaw which the
Scriptures did not seem to support. That problem could be stated as follows: In this
theory, in contrast to Calvin's view of predestination, God's foreknowledge was the basis
of His election and predestination.
I reasoned as Calvin wrote, since to God "all things always were, and perpetually remain,
under his eyes, so that to his knowledge there is nothing future or past, but all things are
present", God knew everything as though it were present. Then, since I could see from
Scripture that His election and predestination followed His foreknowledge, and since He
knew everyone who was foreknown, then, God's predestination had to be individual just

as His foreknowledge was. I was right back where I started. I could not reconcile this
apparent biblical antinomy or paradox.
At this time of my life, this deterministic theology had a detrimental influence on my
attitudes about prayer just as, it seems, you have concluded. If God knew everything, and
I believed He did; and if God predestinated everything based on His foreknowledge, and
I believed He did that too; then, everything that I prayed was foreknown and predestined.
If I didn't pray, that also was predestined; then, it became easy to feel, why should I pray?
Unfortunately, I ended up having an abysmal prayer life. The only reason I prayed, I
thought in my mind, was because God commanded it in His word. I couldn't understand
why the Lord Jesus Christ and Paul were zealous in prayer. In my life, then, there was no
zest in my prayers. Therefore, I recognized that something was seriously wrong with my
Christian life. I knew this was wrong but didn't know what to do about it.
During this troublesome period, my wife and I visited her parents in Illinois. Her father
had a treasure trove of theological books. I was browsing through his books when I found
one by William E. Biederwolf titled, How Can God Answer Prayer? I began reading it
immediately. BOOK THREE chapter IV. had the title, "Why Pray if Everything Is
Predetermined by God?" That was exactly my dilemma. I eagerly turned to that page. He
had three answers based on three different explanations:
"The first explanation declares that everything which comes to pass is first predetermined
in the mind of God. It declares that God's predestination precedes His foreknowledge as
the ground of certainty for human action. God only foreknows that which He has
predetermined to take place.
The second explanation, while admitting that God absolutely predetermines some things,
contends that such things as respect the government of his free moral agents are only
conditionally predetermined. God purposes to do under certain conditions, which depend
upon the free agency of man, what He would not do under other conditions. This
explanation further declares that God's foreknowledge precedes His predestination. God
only predetermines that which He foreknows will take place and the foreknowledge of
human action has no influence upon its taking place; it does not necessitate the action.
The third explanation denies that God's foreknowledge is necessarily all-comprehending.
(Biederwolf, William E., How Can God Answer Prayer?, pp. 106,107, The Winona
Publishing Co., Chicago, Ill., 1906.)
The third explanation was a brand new idea to me. He then evaluated three suppositions.
He started with, "Suppose we accept". I will skip the first two explanations and will start
with his third supposition:
"3. Suppose we accept the third explanation: the explanation which affirms that God's
foreknowledge and foreordination are not necessarily all-comprehending. You shrink
from an attitude of thought like that toward the Supreme Being. It appears, does it not, to
reflect discredit upon His perfection? Yet, let us not be too hasty in our judgment. Many
earnest and noted scholars defend the position and strenuously maintain that not only

does it not dishonor God, but that it is the only scheme of thought which does not divest
Him of the essential attributes of His divinity.
The position is quite clearly set forth in W.W. Kinsley's 'Science and Prayer,' . . . This
explanation, if it may be maintained consistently with the perfection of God's character,
relieves us, of course, of the difficulty in question.
It is contended by the advocates of this explanation, that when God created us in His own
image and made us equally with Himself of sovereign will (and we know we are free to
choose as we will) by His very so doing He surrendered at least partially His control over
us and of necessity limited thereby His foreknowledge concerning us. Plainly it is the old
time-worn controversy between two great schools of theology; between God's
sovereignty on one side (involving as it does His absolute foreknowledge and
predestination) and man's free will on the other, and between the horns of such a dilemma
the only thing to do is to confess a wise ignorance and hang on to both.
A controversion of God's perfect foreknowledge does not set well with most of us,
regardless of our denominational bias. The fear, however, of any belittling conception of
God its advocates would overcome by showing what the theory of such foreknowledge
really involves, leaving us to decide which is the greater injustice, if any, to the all-perfect
character of God.
The following from the work above quoted on 'Science and Prayer' will help us to an
appreciation, if so be such is possible, of the position assumed by the advocates of the
limited knowledge theory. The author says: 'No petitioner can plead with any genuine
unction unless he believes that he can actually effect some change in the purposes
existing in the divine mind at the time his prayer is offered. . . . If God foreknows
everything that will ever come to pass, all His own mental states must necessarily be
included in that foreknowledge. A moment's reflection will convince us that otherwise
there is not a single present intention or plan but what is exposed to the possibility of
modification. If a single thought or emotion is ever going to spring up in God's mind
unanticipated, God Himself must be as ignorant as we as to what part of His vast plan it
will pertain. And so, if we would logically defend a belief in the all-comprehensiveness
of God's foreknowledge, we must affirm that not a single new idea can arise in His mindnot a single new emotion be felt-and that if He is thus limited now He must have been
equally so at every moment in all the eternal past, and must be through all the years to
come; for if there ever has been, or ever will be, a moment when a new thought can thus
come, then during all the time preceding that moment the foreknowledge was incomplete.
Where does this lead? In what sort of an intellectual or emotional condition does this
irrefragable logic compel us to assert God to be continually? Unquestionably that of
perfect stagnation. No thought processes can be carried on under such conditions-no
succession of ideas, no change of mental state; but God must have been and must still be
imprisoned in a hopelessly dead calm. . . . When, then, did He form His plans for
creation? Under this supposition there never could have been a time when He began to
think about them. . . . If God has had no thought succession, He can have had no feeling;

His emotional state having ever necessarily been that of unbroken placidity-of absolute
apathy, His heart throbless as a stone. He could experience no change of feeling, for that
would involve thought-succession. From all the sources of joy or sorrow of which we can
conceive He would be utterly debarred - from pleasurable or painful memories, from
hopes and forebodings, from social sympathies, from emotions that accompany changes,
contrasts, surprises, from the glow of activity, even from the delights and griefs of
contemplation; for they all involve thought-movement. Therefore, under this supposition
God can have no emotional activity, for He would have no thought-activity for its
background. Thoughts must, of course, come and go, or the heart lies dead.' 'Such,' he
says, 'are the absurdities in which we become hopelessly entangled the moment we
attempt to defend the doctrine of God's perfect foreknowledge.'" (op. cit., pp. 106-118.)
This was astounding to me. If this were true, it would change everything. But he had
presented no Scripture to back up the argument. It was just philosophical reasoning. I had
already been shown and then studied God's word on this subject. The Bible said that God
worked all things after the counsel of His will. But I thought about his statements. I must
find a copy of that book, Science and Prayer, and see if there was any Scripture to back
up this argument.
I relentlessly searched until I finally found the book in a used book store. I avidly read it,
but it also was very philosophical. However, he wrote: "The doctrine of God's perfect
foreknowledge is not only unphilosophical, but also unscriptural." (Kinsley, W. W.,
Science and Prayer, p. 80, The Chautauqua Century Press, Meadville, Pa, 1893.) That
encouraged me to read further. I got to the part that Biederwolf had quoted. Then I
realized Biederwolf had skipped the most important part, for me, the reference to
Scripture. It was there! Kinsley even admonished the reader:
"Read if you will the ninth chapter of Deuteronomy. Moses here rehearses the several
rebellions of Israel, and his three separate pleadings before the Lord, of forty days and
forty nights each, without either eating bread or drinking water. Each time he fell down
before a very angry God who had fully purposed, and had definitely announced his
purpose to destroy the rebels, and each time, if Moses can be credited, he actually
changed that purpose right then and there and rescued his people. The God here depicted
had none of that foreknowledge which theologians with such strange unanimity ascribe to
him. But, say you, [And many have made these statements often.] that and similar
accounts scattered throughout the Bible are simply instances of anthropomorphism, of
rhetorical accommodation, of describing in the language of human experiences and
human limitations what really transcends the human; that it was not the intent to have
these narrations interpreted as literal history, but as poetic approximations of dim
shadowings of really ineffable truths. It seems to me that it would be a strange way to
bring the truth within our comprehension, to state what is directly opposed to the truth,
and to reiterate the downright falsehood again and again, in a most misleading way, and
in a matter of such vital moment that all possibility of religious life depends on it, and

through which alone any lasting comfort comes to the hungry human soul." (ibid., pp.
81,82.)
What happened next changed my life. I read Deuteronomy 9 with a searching heart. Here
is what shattered the foundations of my Calvinistic system of theology:
Deu 9:8-19 "Also in Horeb you provoked the Lord to wrath, so that the Lord was angry
enough with you to have destroyed you. 9 When I went up into the mountain to receive
the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant which the Lord made with you, then I
stayed on the mountain forty days and forty nights. I neither ate bread nor drank water. 10
Then the Lord delivered to me two tablets of stone written with the finger of God, and on
them were all the words which the Lord had spoken to you on the mountain from the
midst of the fire in the day of the assembly. 11 And it came to pass, at the end of forty
days and forty nights, that the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the
covenant. 12 Then the Lord said to me, 'Arise, go down quickly from here, for your
people whom you brought out of Egypt have acted corruptly; they have quickly turned
aside from the way which I commanded them; they have made themselves a molded
image.' 13 Furthermore the Lord spoke to me, saying, 'I have seen this people, and indeed
they are a stiff-necked people. 14 Let Me alone, that I may destroy them and blot out their
name from under heaven; and I will make of you a nation mightier and greater than they.'
15 So I turned and came down from the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire;
and the two tablets of the covenant were in my two hands. 16 And I looked, and behold,
you had sinned against the Lord your God-had made for yourselves a molded calf! You
had turned aside quickly from the way which the Lord had commanded you. 17 Then I
took the two tablets and threw them out of my two hands and broke them before your
eyes. 18 And I fell down before the Lord, as at the first, forty days and forty nights; I
neither ate bread nor drank water, because of all your sin which you committed in doing
wickedly in the sight of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger. 19 For I was afraid of the
anger and hot displeasure with which the Lord was angry with you, to destroy you. But
the Lord listened to me at that time also."
This Scripture shattered my presuppositions. Along with other Scripture it undermined
my Calvinistic mindset about the immutability of God. Here was Scripture I had read but
never grasped before. Before long, I found that there was a vast amount of Scripture
which showed that God changed His mind - even repented. Since that time, I have
studied the Bible on this issue for thousands of hours. I am convinced that predestination
is not for salvation but it is for our security once we trust Christ as our Savior.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: If God gave us free will, and wants us to love Him He isn't immutable or
impassible, right?
Sorry to bother you again, but I have another question! I got a book by C.S. Lewis from
the library, and I wanted to type to you a little part of it, and get your opinion on it:

"If the Impassible sometimes speaks of suffering from passion, and the eternal fullness of
being in want... Then it can only mean, if it means anything intelligible by us, that the
immutable heart chooses to need us." That's not the whole thing, just the gist of what he
is saying. What confuses me is that C.S. Lewis believes we have free will, but here he
speaks of God as being immutable. And if God created in Himself a place where He
could need us (as Lewis claims) then doesn't that in itself mean He ISN'T immutable?? If
God gave us free will, and loved us, and created in Himself the ability to NEED us, then
He must feel emotions about and for us, which means He does change. And if He ever
changed once then He isn't impassible. Right?? The quote is from the book "The Problem
with Pain" and it is in chapter 3 "Divine Goodness"
Thanks for your time and thoughts!
Dusti
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Dusti,
First, you are not bothering me.
I believe C. S. Lewis is somewhat right in his evaluation of the biblical data on God's
impassibility and immutability. That's because, when we think of immutability and
impassibility, we don't find it in the Bible. Instead, we have to look to the creeds that
various Calvinistic religious groups have, like the Westminster Confession.
Because of these unbiblical creeds, theologians have written things like this about God's
love: "Love, of course, is not bound up with sensitive passion and emotion in God, as it is
in us. . . . Passions, since they necessarily entail a sensitive and therefore bodily nature,
are per se imperfect and limited, and consequently they cannot be predicated except
metaphorically of God. . . . we must deny these accompanying passions when we
attribute love and joy to God." [Benignus, Nature, Knowledge, and God, pp. 551,552.] I
ask, on what basis should we do this? What does God's Word say? Yet they arbitrarily say
God does not mean what He said, or had written in his Word.
I have to hand it to Dr. James Boice when he wrote the following in his book, The
Sovereign God, pp. 184,185: The immutability of God as presented in Scripture,
however, is not the same thing as the immutability of "god" talked about by the Greek
philosophers. In Greek thought immutability meant not only unchangeability but also the
inability to be affected by anything in any way. The Greek word . . . . means a total
inability to feel any emotion whatever. . . . That makes good philosophy of course. It is
logical. But it is not what God reveals about himself in the Scriptures, and so we must
reject it, however logical it may seem." I'm glad that he departed from his Calvinistic
heritage because, he said, "it is not what God reveals about himself in the Scriptures".
However, on the previous page he wrote: ". . . being perfect, he never differs from
himself. For a moral being to change, it would be necessary to change in one of two
directions. Either the change is from something worse to something better, or else it is
from something better to something worse. It should be evident that God can move in
neither of these directions. God cannot change for the better, for that would mean that he

had been imperfect beforehand. . . If we are talking about knowledge, it would mean that
he had not known everything and was therefore ignorant."
However, here Boice was just repeating the Greek philosophy of Socrates as written by
Plato in the Republic. Plato explained immutability this way in, "A dialogue between
Socrates and Adeimantus.": "Is it not true that to be altered and moved by something else
happens least to things that are in the best condition . . . that those which are well made
and in good condition are least liable to be changed by time and other influences. . . . It is
universally true then, that that which is in the best state by nature or art or both admits
least alteration by something else.... But God, surely and everything that belongs to God
is in every way in the best possible state.... does he change himself for the better ... or for
the worse and to something uglier than himself? ...for the worse if he is changed . . . the
gods themselves are incapable of change. . . . Then God is altogether simple and true in
deed and word, and neither changes himself nor deceives others. (Plato, Republic I, Loeb
Classical Library, Book II, pp. 191-197.)
Many other theologians tell us that God is immutable, unchangeable, impassible, and
unaffected by anything outside of Himself. But when we look in the Bible, we find that
our God is just the opposite. We do have a God who changes His mind We do have a very
passionate God. We know that because the Scriptures tell us.
We know He can be affected and afflicted by His people's affliction because He shows us
in His Word.
Jer 15:6 "You have forsaken Me," says the Lord, "You have gone backward. Therefore I
will stretch out My hand against you and destroy you; I am weary of repenting!"
Isa 63:8,9 "Surely they are My people, children who will not lie." So He became their
Savior. 9 In all their affliction He was afflicted, and the Angel of His Presence saved
them; In His love and in His pity He redeemed them; And He bore them and carried them
all the days of old.
He can also experience anguish because of His people.
Hos 11:7-9 My people are bent on backsliding from Me. Though they call to the Most
High, none at all exalt Him. 8 How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you
over, Israel? How can I make you like Admah? How can I set you like Zeboiim? My
heart churns within Me; My sympathy is stirred. 9 I will not execute the fierceness of My
anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim. For I am God, and not man, The Holy One in
your midst; And I will not come with terror.
He had compassion even though Israel was unrepentant. After the 10 spies gave their
report and Joshua and Caleb gave theirs, the people wanted to kill Joshua and Caleb. This
is shown in Num 14:10,11,20-23: the congregation said to stone them with stones. Now
the glory of the Lord appeared in the tabernacle of meeting before all the children of
Israel. 11 Then the Lord said to Moses: "How long will these people reject Me? And how
long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?"
Then Moses prayed for this stubborn unrepentant people. He appealed to God's mercy,
compassion, and longsuffering, asking Him to pardon them. Because of this intercessor,

what did God do? It tells us in verses 20-23. 20 Then the Lord said: "I have pardoned,
according to your word; 21 but truly, as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory
of the Lord - 22 because all these men who have seen My glory and the signs which I did
in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have put Me to the test now these ten times, and have
not heeded My voice, 23 they certainly shall not see the land of which I swore to their
fathers, nor shall any of those who rejected Me see it."
Israel's misery and repentance always affected God. We find that in Judges 10:10-16: And
the children of Israel cried out to the Lord, saying, "We have sinned against You, because
we have both forsaken our God and served the Baals!" 11 So the Lord said to the children
of Israel, "Did I not deliver you from the Egyptians and from the Amorites and from the
people of Ammon and from the Philistines? 12 Also the Sidonians and Amalekites and
Maonites oppressed you; and you cried out to Me, and I delivered you from their hand.
13 Yet you have forsaken Me and served other gods. Therefore I will deliver you no
more. 14 Go and cry out to the gods which you have chosen; let them deliver you in your
time of distress." 15 And the children of Israel said to the Lord, "We have sinned! Do to
us whatever seems best to You; only deliver us this day, we pray." 16 So they put away
the foreign gods from among them and served the Lord. And His soul could no longer
endure the misery of Israel.
In Nah 1:2, we find God could become furious. Nah 1:2: "God is jealous, and the LORD
avenges; The LORD avenges and is furious. The LORD will take vengeance on His
adversaries, and He reserves wrath for His enemies."
He was provoked to wrath in Deu 9:7,8: Remember! Do not forget how you provoked the
LORD your God to wrath in the wilderness. From the day that you departed from the
land of Egypt until you came to this place, you have been rebellious against the LORD. 8
Also in Horeb you provoked the LORD to wrath, so that the LORD was angry enough
with you to have destroyed you.
God can be grieved over the world, Israel and us when we go astray. Israel affected God
and grieved Him. He got furious in Psa 78:16-22,36-41: He also brought streams out of
the rock, and caused waters to run down like rivers. 17 But they sinned even more against
Him By rebelling against the Most High in the wilderness. 18 And they tested God in
their heart by asking for the food of their fancy. 19 Yes, they spoke against God: They
said, "Can God prepare a table in the wilderness? 20 Behold, He struck the rock, so that
the waters gushed out, and the streams overflowed. Can He give bread also? Can He
provide meat for His people?" 21 Therefore the Lord heard this and was furious; So a fire
was kindled against Jacob, and anger also came up against Israel, 22 Because they did not
believe in God, and did not trust in His salvation. 36 Nevertheless they flattered Him with
their mouth, and they lied to Him with their tongue; 37 For their heart was not steadfast
with Him, nor were they faithful in His covenant. 38 But He, being full of compassion,
forgave their iniquity, and did not destroy them. Yes, many a time He turned His anger
away, and did not stir up all His wrath; 39 For He remembered that they were but flesh, a
breath that passes away and does not come again. 40 How often they provoked Him in

the wilderness, and grieved Him in the desert! 41 Yes, again and again they tempted God,
and limited the Holy One of Israel.
It says He was grieved with Israel for 40 years in Psa 95:10: For forty years I was grieved
with that generation, and said, "It is a people who go astray in their hearts, and they do
not know My ways."
According to Eph 4:30, we can grieve the Holy Spirit even though He seals us until the
day of redemption. Eph 4:30: And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you
were sealed for the day of redemption.
He is jealous of our worship.
Ex 34:14 for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a
jealous God.
Jam 4:5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us
yearns jealously?"
He loves (Greek filei) emotionally.
John 5:20 For the Father loves the Son.
John 16:27 the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me.
He loves volitionally (agapay).
Eph 2:4-6 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved
us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ.
He has pity in Isa 63:9: In all their affliction He was afflicted, and the Angel of His
Presence saved them; In His love and in His pity He redeemed them; And He bore them
and carried them all the days of old.
He takes pleasure in Psa 147:11: The LORD takes pleasure in those who fear Him, in
those who hope in His mercy.
He was tested by Israel according to Heb 3:8-11: Do not harden your hearts as in the
rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
and saw My works forty years. 10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, and said,
"They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways. 11 So I swore
in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.'"
God even said, "What shall I do?" He was beside Himself in Hos 6:4: O Ephraim, what
shall I do to you? O Judah, what shall I do to you? For your faithfulness is like a morning
cloud, and like the early dew it goes away.
He yearns for His people.
Jer 31:20 Is Ephraim My dear son? Is he a pleasant child? For though I spoke against
him, I earnestly remember him still; Therefore My heart yearns for him; I will surely
have mercy on him, says the LORD.
Jam 4:5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us
yearns jealously"?
From these Scriptures, we can see a great variety of emotions our passionate God has
displayed in spite of what the Calvinistic theologians say about His immutability and

impassibility in their creeds. Remember, impassible means not subject to passion or

feelings. But being passionate wasn't enough for our wonderful God.
He gave the greatest gift of all. He gave His Son to redeem us by paying for our sins. His
Son, Jesus Christ, helps us to know the Father. As we learn about Him, we can love Him
more for who He is. Then, as we focus on Him, who He is, and how wonderful He is, we
can be filled with God's fullness. Then we can love and worship Him.
That's what Paul is doing in Eph 3:14-19: For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of
our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16
that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with
might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts
through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to
comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height- 19 to
know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the
fullness of God.
Let me know what you think.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Does saying that God doesn't know everything detract from His Godhood?
Bob,
Thank you for your reply. I know you are very busy and I appreciate your response.
I have read your articles on Predestination which is where I came across the knowledge
issue where we disagree. My point is, which I think you're not considering in all of your
articles, is that God exists outside of the time that constrains us. Sure we have free will, I
completely agree with you on that. However, God knows what free-will decisions we will
make. Is anything a surprise to God? Does anything take him aback and make him say,
"Wow, I didn't see that coming."???
Just because God knows all of our future decisions does not remove anything from our
free will state. Forknowledge and free-will are two separate issues.
For example, let's say that you're throwing a surprise birthday party for your friend. Does
your knowledge of the party somehow dictate how the person will react? That's absurd.
Just because you know about the party has absolutely no bearing on how your friend will
react. It's the same with God. Just because he knows the future, doesn't mean he controls
it. But, to say that God doesn't know everything detracts from his Godhood.
Sincerely,
Rich Morgan
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Rich,
Thanks for your response. I understand that you believe that God is outside of time. I
believed that when I got saved back in 1951. I was guided to that conclusion by the guy
who discipled me. He said that God knew all of the future because He was outside of
time. He went farther than you. He said God couldn't be wrong. Everything was already

seen by God. And because it is already seen by God, it can't be any different than how He
sees it. Therefore, it is ordained to be just the way God saw it. That made sense to my
brain-washed mind, but when I was confronted by William Biederwolf's book, How Can
God Answer Prayer, I realized I was wrong. If God knows something, our God could not
be wrong. If God knew the whole future, it could not change from what He knew in one
jot. That would mean all time is frozen. There are no choices-only what God sees. The
Bible contradicts that in thousands of places, but not once does it say that God declares
the future where He does not determine it, cause it to happen, or do it.
God doesn't know the future unless He acts on things or people to make it happen. God
could, and does predict the future, because He makes what He predicts happen.
Isa 46:9-11 Remember the former things of old, for I am God, and there is no other; I am
God, and there is none like Me, 10 declaring the end from the beginning, and from
ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will do
all My pleasure,' 11 calling a bird of prey from the east, the man who executes My
counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have
purposed it; I will also do it.
It's not that "Time is a creation of God, therefore it does not control Him." that matters.
God has always existed and always will. Time is onerous to us because we have to sleep,
work, punch a clock-all kinds of things that time frustrates. I'm almost 69. Time and its
consequences of aging are a bummer, but God doesn't get old. My biggest hang-up was
that I thought at one time that God was outside of time.
If any of these things could be proved from Scripture, I would be happy to change. I
believed them from Greek philosophy at one time, but the Bible doesn't corroborate what
I once believed.
There are many Scripture passages that say that God changes His mind, answers prayer
or repents. Many Christians don't sympathize with Calvinism at all but believe that a
solution to the problem of God's repentance in over twenty passages in the Bible is found
in what Paul Tillich borrowed from Greek philosophy: "The eternal now, that God is not
in time." I have been studying this topic for 40 years and have not found one place that
says God is outside of time or even alludes to that idea. Instead, the Bible shows God
working with us in time.
I'm a biblicist. Show me from God's word that God is outside of time. When a Christian
philosopher maintained that God was outside of time, the only thing he could tell me was
his reference to "Paul Tillich's phrase, "The eternal now, that God is not in time."
Again, I have heard this from many sources, but there is no Scripture which states this.
What they sometimes refer to are the following passages: 2 Ti 1:9 who has saved us and
called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own
purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. Tit 1:2 in
hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began. Walvoord &
Zuck wrote at 1 Co 2:7, "The message which Paul proclaimed was God's secret wisdom,
known only by God's revelation (Matt. 11:25). At the heart of this wisdom is the plan of

salvation intended for our glory, determined before time began (Eph. 1:4)." The Bible
Knowledge Commentary. Wheaton, Ill: Scripture Press, 1985.
In each of these references, the Greek text does not substantiate the translation.
2 Ti 1:9 before time began. pro cronwn aiwniwn = before age times.
Tit 1:2 before time began. pro cronwn aiwniwn = before age times.
1 Co 2:7 prowrisen ho theos pro twn aiwnwn = God predestined before the ages
Tillich was not the one who formulated this idea about God. Augustine who lived from
354-430 AD was influenced by Plato through Plotinus. Most scholars in the ancient world
of Augustine understood Plato's concept of God. He had influenced almost all the schools
of philosophy of that time. Plato explained God's immutability in, "A dialogue between
Socrates and Adeimantus." He wrote: "Is it not true that to be altered and moved by
something else happens least to things that are in the best condition . . . that those which
are well made and in good condition are least liable to be changed by time and other
influences. . . . It is universally true then, that that which is in the best state by nature or
art or both admits least alteration by something else. . . . But God, surely and everything
that belongs to God is in every way in the best possible state. . . . Then does he (God)
change himself for the better and to something fairer, or for the worse and to something
uglier than himself? It must necessarily . . . be for the worse if he is changed . . . the gods
themselves are incapable of change. . . . Then God is altogether simple and true in deed
and word, and neither changes himself. Plato V, Republic I, Loeb Classical Library, Book
II, Chapters XIX-XXI, pp. 191-197, trans. by Paul Shorey.
This argument was formulated by Plato and later adopted by Augustine through the
writings of the Neoplatonists, especially Plotinus. Let me emphasize again, what Plato
said at the end of his dialogue. He basically said that since God is perfect, he is not
altered or moved by anything else. Here is Plato's conclusion about God's immutability
again. ". . . the gods themselves are incapable of change . . . Then God . . . neither
changes".
Plotinus lived about 150 years before Augustine, 205-269 AD. He was a Neoplatonic
philosopher with whom Augustine was well acquainted. The concept of God being in the
state of Eternal Now (Atemporal) was received from Plato through Plotinus. Let's
examine the parallel thought's of Plotinus and Augustine. We'll see Augustine was greatly
influenced by the thoughts of Plotinus.
Plotinus and Augustine
In his Confessions, Book VIII, Chapter II, Augustine related how he discussed
Victorinus, who had translated the books of the Platonists into Latin. Augustine saw
many similarities between Platonism and Catholicism since he wrote: "whereas in the
Platonists, God and his word are everywhere implied." (p. 409) Historians believe that
the books which Augustine read were most likely the Enneads of Plotinus. Augustine
mentions Plotinus twice in his The City of God. Let's look at the similarities.
The concept that there is no past or future only present
Plotinus

"seeing all this one sees eternity in seeing a life that abides in the same, and always has
the all present to it, not now this, and then again that, but all things at once, and not now
some things, and then again others, but a partless completion . . . Necessarily there will
be no 'was' about it, for what is there that was for it and has passed away? Nor any 'will
be,' for what will be for it? So there remains for it only to be in its being just what it is.
That, then, which was not, and will not be, but is only, which has being which is static by
not changing to the 'will be,' nor ever having changed, this is eternity." (Plotinus III,
Ennead, Loeb Classical Library, Book III, Chapter 7, p. 305, trans. by A.H. Armstrong)
Augustine
"so that of those things which emerge in time, the future indeed, are not yet, and the
present are now, and the past no longer are; but all of these are by Him comprehended in
His stable and eternal presence . . . but beholds all things with absolute
unchangeableness" (City of God, Book XI, Chapter 21, p. 364)
Augustine believed that God exists in an eternal present in which the future and the past
are comprehended as existing now. Plotinus said the eternal does not have a "was" (past)
or a "will be"(future) but only an "is"(present). Since God exists in an eternal state the
past, present and future are viewed as existing in that present state at the same time as the
present.
The concept that in the Eternal Now there is no change
Plotinus
"which is static by not changing to the 'will be,' nor ever having changed," (Ennead,
p.305)
Augustine
"but beholds all things with absolute unchangeableness" (City of God, p. 364)
The concept of immutability again plays a crucial role in the development of the doctrine
of intemporality. For God to be immutable the future could add no knowledge to what he
already knows. This unchangeableness would be present in the eternal now.
The concept of having no transition of thought
Plotinus
The life, then, which belongs to that which exists and is in being, all together and full,
completely without extension or interval, is that which we are looking for, eternity.
(Ennead, p.305)
Augustine
"For he does not pass from this to that by transition of thought, but beholds all things
with absolute unchangeableness" (City of God, p. 364)
Since no new knowledge can be possible for God there is no transition of thought. Again,
Plotinus believed that there is no extension or interval of thought in eternity.
Augustine's sources for his doctrine of the immutability of God are from his
philosophical and pagan religious background. We find traces of the popular pagan
religions in Augustine's theology. Augustine received his doctrine of the immutability of
God directly from pagan religious philosophy. This doctrine influenced Augustine in the

development of other important doctrines of the attributes of God including

predestination, foreknowledge, impassibility and intemporality.
Although Augustine, was raised by a Christian mother, he wandered from the Christian
faith. He developed a love for philosophy, and still superstitiously clung to some aspects
of the faith of his mother. One sect, the Manichees combined the rationalism of the
philosophers with the appropriate "God-names" like the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy
Ghost, and thus persuaded him to become a follower of their sect. This lasted for nine
years.
The Manicheans stressed rational inquiry over authority. Augustine agreed with this
method of ascertaining truth. Augustine also believed that in substance, the Holy
Scriptures were unworthy to be compared with the wisdom of the Manicheans. The
Manicheans disliked the Old Testament because it portrayed an angry emotional God
who was considered by the Neoplatonists to be mutable or subject to change. By now,
this Platonic conception of God was common in almost all of the Greek philosophies of
Augustine's age.
Eugene TeSelle states: "People acquainted with philosophical notions of God were
uncomfortable with the anthropomorphisms of the Old Testament (not only with its
descriptions of God but its suggestions that God has human emotions, or changes his
mind)." (Augustine the Theologian. New York: Herder and Herder, 1970, p.30)
Augustine was torn between his mother's religion and the rationalism he admired in the
philosophies of the world. In his travels Augustine went to Milan. The Bishop of Milan
was Ambrose. He offered a solution to Augustine's dilemma: a reconciliation between
philosophy and Catholicism. Only after Ambrose allegorized those Old Testament
Scriptures that revealed a mutable God was Augustine able to accept the Catholic faith.
Ambrose allegorized or spiritualized the offending Old Testament Scripture until
Augustine could accept the Christian God: "For those absurdities which in those
Scriptures were wont to offend me, after I had heard divers of them expounded properly, I
referred now to the depth of the mystery: yea and the authority of that Book appeared so
much the more venerable, and so much more worthy of our religious credit..."
(Confessions I, Loeb Classical Library, Book VI, Chapter V, p. 285, trans. by William
Watts)
Then Augustine turned to Scriptures after the absurdities were "expounded properly. . . .
Seeing therefore mankind would prove too weak to find out the truth by the way of
evident reason, and for this cause was there need of the authority of Holy Writ (Ibid).
Although Augustine later had a high regard for Scripture, he allowed reason to first
dictate his ideas about God's attributes. Then, the details were to be filled by Scriptures.
The most damaging presupposition, which has harmed Christianity the most, was the
immutability of God. This doctrine of immutability influenced his doctrines of
impassability, predestination, foreknowledge, and intemporality of God. Subsequently
these doctrines were absorbed by Calvin. This influence of Augustine over Calvin is
attested by Calvinists for example, Benjamin Warfield wrote, "The system of doctrine

taught by Calvin is just the Augustinianism common to the whole body of the Reformersfor the Reformation was, as from the spiritual point of view a great revival of
Augustinianism." (Calvin and Augustine, P & R Pub Co., Phil., Pa., 1956, p.22)
In Augustine's own word's: "And for this I rejoiced also, for that the Old Scriptures of the
Law and the prophets, were laid before me now, to be perused, not with that eye to which
they seemed most absurd before, whenas I misliked thy holy ones for thinking so and so:
but indeed they did not think so. And with joyful heart I heard Ambrose in his sermons to
the people, most diligently oftentimes recommend this text for a rule unto them, The
letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life: whilst those things which taken according to the
letter seemed to teach perverse doctrines, he spiritually laid open to us, having taken off
the veil of the mystery; teaching nothing in it that offended me..." (Confessions, Book VI,
Chapter IV, p. 259)
Augustine also explained his reasoning which reconciled his conversion to the Catholic
faith: "For first of all the things began to appear unto me as possible to be defended: and
the Catholic faith, in defense of which I thought nothing could be answered to the
Manichees' arguments, I now concluded with myself, might well be maintained without
absurdity: especially after I had heard one or two hard places of the Old Testament
resolved now and then; which when I understood literally, I was slain. Many places
therefore of those books having been spiritually expounded...(Ibid., Book V, Chapter XIV,
p. 259)
What were those literal interpretations that Augustine could not accept literally. One of
them was the mutability of God, that God changes, that God could be influenced and
change his mind from one time to the next in order to adjust to a changeable mankind. In
his Confessions, Augustine explained what literal interpretations were unacceptable.
Among those foolish arguments that Augustine could not answer in defense of
Christianity he wrote: "And because God commanded them one thing then, and these
another thing now for certain temporal respects; and yet those of both ages were servants
to the same righteousness, whereas they may observe in one man, and in one day, and in
one house, different things to be fit for different members, and one thing to be lawful
now, which in an hour hence is not so; and something to be permitted or commanded in
one corner, which is forbidden or punished in another. Is Justice thereupon various or
mutable". ( Ibid., Book III, Chapter VII, p. 125)
Now, remember, the Manicheans believed God could not be mutable and retain his
perfection. Augustine accepted this philosophy as true and attempted to prove this
doctrine in Scripture. In The Morals of the Catholic Church, Augustine explained the
doctrines of the Old Testament that were so absurd. In explaining his dispute with the
Manichaeans we observe his agreement with them about the literal interpretation of the
Old Testament: "We do not worship a God who repents, or is envious, or needy, or cruel,
or who takes pleasure in the blood men or beasts, or is pleased with guilt or crime, or
whose possession of the earth is limited to a little corner of it. These and such like are the
silly notions...the fancies of old women or of children...and in those by whom these

passages are literally understood . . . And should any one suppose that anything in God's
substance or nature can suffer change or conversion, he will be held guilty of wild
profanity." (Oats, On the Morals of the Catholic Church, Basic Writings of Saint
Augustine, N Y: Random House Pub, 1948, p. 327)
Even though the Old Testament literally shows a mutable, changeable God, Augustine
agreed with the Manicheans that a mutable God was totally unacceptable. In this conflict
between the Platonic doctrine of immutability and the literal interpretation of Scriptures
what had to change? Augustine's answer was that the literal interpretation of Scripture
had to change. For Augustine the plain narratives of Scripture had to be reinterpreted by
spiritual or allegorical methods. The Manicheans knew the Old Testament revealed a God
who was mutable or could repent, and they rejected it. Since the Platonists believed that
God was immutable this idea of God repenting was a source of ridicule for the Catholic
Church. Augustine was so embarrassed by these arguments that he chose to reinterpret
Scripture rather than depart from Platonic philosophy.
One philosophy professor I talked to on my radio program some time ago, made a
statement which I was pleased to hear from a professor of philosophy. He said, "The God
of the Bible is not the God of the philosophers." For me, it is Plato's, Aristotle's and
Augustine's, rationalistic approach to God that I reject.
We can only begin to understand God's character and attributes by reading the Bible.
Referring to Augustine and his allies, they got God's character and attributes from reason
and then went to the Scriptures and made the Scriptures agree with their philosophical
concepts.
Let me present what Augustine wrote even in the account of his conversion. He displayed
his Platonic rationalistic thinking. Augustine found the unchangeable God solely by his
reason. "I had by this time found the unchangeable and the true eternity of truth, residing
above this changeable mind of mine. And thus by degrees passing from bodies to the
soul, which makes use of the senses of the body to perceive by: and from thence to its
inner faculties . . . and so forward, as far as the irrational creatures are able to go: and
thence again I passed on to the reasoning faculties, unto whatever is received from the
senses of the body is referred to be judged. (Confessions I, Book VII, Chapter XVII, pp.
385-387)
Did Augustine understand God as immutable from a study of the Scriptures. No!
Augustine was reasoning about God and saw an immutable God in his mind. However,
his reasoning was influenced. Augustine received the concept of the unchangeable or
immutable God from the Neoplatonists. This concept passed right into his Christian
theology without change. It is true that Augustine utilized Scripture in his defense of the
immutability of God, but Scripture was only used to buttress his rationalistic thought of
God.
It was a secondary proof: "Those things which our faith holds and which reason in
whatever way has traced out, are fortified by the testimonies of the divine Scriptures, so
that those who by reason of feebler intellect are not able to comprehend these things, may

believe the divine authority, and so may deserve to know . . . Accordingly that God is
unchangeable..." (Concerning the Nature of the Good, Basic Writings of St. Augustine, N
Y: Random House, p. 440.)
Notice that Augustine disclosed that reason traced out the doctrine of immutability. Rich,
stop and think, didn't reason also trace out your presentation? You gave an example of a
birthday party. There are some flaws in your reasoning which I'm sure you will agree. I
do not have a flawless knowledge of my friends party. I could die before the party even
took place. It could end up a tragedy. When God foreknows something in the Bible, He
says He brings it to pass.
I ask you, again, present one passage that says God knows all of the future. It is no
limitation of our awesome God if He does not know the unknowable. A free-will choice
is contingent on many things. That's why the Bible treats those free-will choices
contingently.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Does God have free will?
Dear Bob,
Thanks for your interaction on these issues. I am rather isolated here since my Korean
language ability is not so good, so it's difficult to find many people who want to discuss
theological issues about which we can respectfully disagree.
Regarding your assertion that "untempted" can be used in James 1:13, A.T. Robertson
commented on the verse, "The context calls for 'untemptable' rather than 'untempted.'"
Kurt Richardson, an associate professor of theology and ethics at Gordon-Conwell
Seminary, discussed the verse: "James strongly denied that God is the origin of
temptation, for 'God cannot be tempted [lit. he is 'without temptation'] by evil, nor does
he tempt anyone.' This aphorism places together references to God's personal character or
disposition and to his activity. No evil can have its way with God. He is immune to any of
its provocations. There can be nothing evil about that which concerns God." In a footnote
Richardson adds, "The untemptability of God is the rationale for the conclusion that he
tempts no one." The Complete Word Study New Testament (editor Spiros Zodhiates) says
this about "cannot be tempted": "Apeirastos; a verbal adj. From the neg. a (1) without,
and peirazo (3985), to tempt or to test. Used only in James 1:13 where it means incapable
of being tempted to do evil." Brooks and Winbery's Syntax of New Testament Greek
translates the verse as: "For God is not capable of being tempted with reference to evil
things." In your quote from Walter Bauer's Greek-English Lexicon you noted the quote,
"An untempted man is untried." There is of course a strong relationship between the word
"tempt" (peirazo) and the word "trial" (peirasmos). Luke, when he quoted Jesus in Luke
4:12, used the word "ekpeirazo" ("tempt" or "test") when Jesus quoted Deuteronomy
6:16, "YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST." Deuteronomy
6:16 referred to Exodus 17:1-7 where the Israelites "tested" or "tempted" the Lord.

I'm not sure, however, that I understand the point you are making about James 1:13. If, as
you say, the word means "untempted" rather than "untemptable," then are you saying that
because God has never been tempted that there is no proof that He does not have free
will? God has been good for eternity. Are you saying that He potentially could make a
free will decision to become evil? I know that you do not believe that He will actually
make such a decision, but perhaps you are saying that He potentially could make such a
decision. God has not made an evil decision for an eternity. If God never changes
(Hebrews 13:8, James 1:17, Malachi 3:6), then how could He ever make an evil decision?
A being who is always totally biased toward good cannot make an evil decision. True free
will decisions can only occur from an unbiased, neutral frame of reference. You indicated
that you believe that God didn't know from eternity about Adam's sin and our choices.
Jesus "was foreknown before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20), and Christians
("us") were chosen "in Him before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4). God has
always known what Jesus would do and who would be in Him. It would be pointless for
God to say, "Maybe some individuals will choose to be in an unknown group in Him." If
all individuals have free will, and if God doesn't know who will choose to become
Christians, then possibly no one will choose to become a Christian. I believe that God
chose to create some individuals that He knew would choose with free will to become
Christians. I guess I'm veering toward a discussion of open theology, but perhaps such a
discussion is inevitable. Millard Erickson, the president of the Evangelical Theological
Society, commented on open theology:
"Recently a group of evangelical theologians calling themselves free will theists has
challenged a number of the traditional divine attributes, such as immutability,
timelessness, and foreknowledge, which they believe come from Greek philosophy rather
than from the Bible. They see their view as midway between classical orthodoxy and
process theology. God, on this view, is genuinely affected by and responds to human
actions. The passages stating that God repented are to be taken literally, rather than
treated as anthropopathisms; he actually changes his mind. And although God is
omniscient, this means that he knows all things that are proper objects of knowledge.
Free human actions are not of this character. If God knew what we were going to do, that
would mean that those actions were certain and we would not be free to do otherwise.
The indubitability of freedom of a 'noncompatibilist' type means that God cannot have
such foreknowledge. He is not a closed God; he is an open God.
A number of difficulties attach to this view. For one thing, if God does not coerce human
action, then there is no certainty that his will finally will be realized. Further, the attempts
to account for the phenomenon of biblical prophecy are rather indadequate in light of the
very detailed nature of some of the prophecies. Interestingly, many orthodox theists reject
the view of God attributed to them, arguing that the view described is actually Thomism.
It appears that this is a rather anthropocentric view, in which if God's sovereignty and
foreknowledge conflict with human freedom, the former must be redefined. A preferable

solution to the problem would be to redefine human freedom." (Christian Theology, pp.
307-308)
Interestingly, Erickson doesn't see God's foreknowledge as being in conflict with man's
free will:
"In our scheme, however, God has a foreknowledge of possibilities. God foresees what
possible human beings will do if placed in a particular situation with all the influences
that will be present at that point in time and space. On this basis he chooses which of the
possible individuals will become actualities and which circumstances and influences will
be present. He foreknows what these individuals will freely do, for he in effect made that
decision by choosing them in particular to bring into existence."
Best wishes,
Mike
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Mike,
I'm sorry I have not had the time to go further on your book, and yet, here is another
email in answer to mine.
We do have a different view of God. I see our God as an almighty being who is love, all
powerful, all knowing, free, and is able to do anything He wants or desires to do. I am
driven to these conclusions from God's presentation of Himself in His Word. About 45
years ago, I was influenced by my wife's dear uncle, who was a Universal
Reconciliationist. He showed me in 1 Tim 2:3-6, that God willed all men to be saved:
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who wills all men to be
saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one
Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for
all, to be testified in due time."
He explained to me that all were not saved in this life, but everyone would be reconciled
to God at the consummation of the ages. He showed me that there were many ages in the
Bible. This added to my problem.
Now I was wrestling with two doctrines - the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation, all
will be reconciled to God, and Limited Atonement, Christ died only for the elect.
At that time it seemed that these were my only choices. I believed, and still believe that
God's word is true, without error, and there is consistency in the biblical statements, even
if we can't see them.
I thought, either God foreknew and predestined only the elect to be saved, or He
exhaustively foreknew the future and willed all to be saved. Which one was right? Did
God will only the elect to be saved? Or did He will all to be saved ultimately? I thought it
had to be one or the other.
This struggle put me in the middle of a seemingly unsolvable dilemma. I now was a 4
point Calvinist struggling with the middle point of the 5 points of Calvinism, limited
atonement, vs. a heretical doctrine - Universal Reconciliation. I ended up buying neither.

After we moved to California in 1957, my pastor presented an idea that was new to me.
He showed me another interpretation of Eph 1:4,5 that I later found was fairly common:
Eph 1:4,5 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should
be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as
sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
He explained to me that both the election and the predestination in this passage were
corporate. He pointed out in the passage that it didn't say individuals were chosen to be
saved or predestined to be saved. Instead, (because they were in the body of Christ) they
were elected to be holy and without blame, and predestined to the adoption as sons.
I also saw that the nation of Israel was God's elect, but, amazingly, many in elect Israel
did not believe and were, ultimately, not included in redeemed Israel nation. Isa 45:1-4
showed Israel was His elect: "Thus says the LORD to His anointed, to Cyrus, whose right
hand I have held - to subdue nations before him and loose the armor of kings, to open
before him the double doors, so that the gates will not be shut: 2 'I will go before you and
make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of bronze and cut the
bars of iron. 3 I will give you the treasures of darkness and hidden riches of secret places,
that you may know that I, the LORD, Who call you by your name, am the God of Israel.
4 For Jacob My servant's sake, and Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name;
I have named you, though you have not known Me." Strangely, not all the elect were
saved. So, these ideas were the first problems I faced in my Calvinistic belief.
But now, in my mind, the idea of corporate election and predestination also had a serious
flaw which the Scriptures did not seem to support. That problem could be stated this way.
In contrast to Calvin's view of predestination, God's foreknowledge was the basis of His
election and predestination. But, I reasoned as Calvin wrote, since to God "all things
always were, and perpetually remain, under his eyes, so that to his knowledge there is
nothing future or past, but all things are present", God knew everything as though it were
present.
Then, since I could see from Scripture that His election and predestination followed His
foreknowledge, and since He knew everyone who was foreknown, then God's
predestination had to be individual just as His foreknowledge was. I was right back where
I started. I could not biblically reconcile this apparent paradox.
At this time of my life, this deterministic theology had a detrimental influence on my
attitudes about prayer. I reasoned, if God knew everything, and I believed He did; and if
God predestinated everything based on His foreknowledge, and I believed He did that
too; then, everything that I prayed was foreknown and predestined.
If I didn't pray, that also was predestined. Then, unfortunately, I began to feel, that my
prayers had no influence on God, so why pray? Unfortunately, I ended up having a lousy
prayer life. I prayed only because God commanded me to pray in His word.
I realized that even Jesus Christ, God incarnate, and Paul were zealous in prayer. I
prayed, but it was perfunctory prayer. I recognized that something was seriously wrong
with my Christian life. I knew this was wrong but didn't know what to do about it.

Then, I read a book by William E. Biederwolf titled, How Can God Answer Prayer? In
book three, chapter 4 the title was, "Why Pray if Everything Is Predetermined by God?"
There were three answers.
The first answer was where I already was stuck. The second explanation was different. It
stated that God predetermined some things but free moral agents were only conditionally
predetermined. God purposes to do under certain conditions, which depend upon the free
agency of man, what He would not do under other conditions. It also said that God's
foreknowledge preceded His predestination. God only predetermined what He foreknew
would take place and the foreknowledge of human action had no influence upon whether
it took place. After thinking about it, this seemed just like the view my pastor had.
The third explanation had a peculiar thought that denied God's foreknowledge was allcomprehending. He wrote, "Suppose we accept the third explanation: the explanation
which affirms that God's foreknowledge and foreordination are not necessarily allcomprehending. You shrink from an attitude of thought like that toward the Supreme
Being. It appears, does it not, to reflect discredit upon His perfection? Yet, let us not be
too hasty in our judgment. Many earnest and noted scholars defend the position and
strenuously maintain that not only does it not dishonor God, but that it is the only scheme
of thought which does not divest Him of the essential attributes of His divinity.
The position is quite clearly set forth in W.W. Kinsley's "Science and Prayer," . . . This
explanation, if it may be maintained consistently with the perfection of God's character,
relieves us, of course, of the difficulty in question.
It is contended by the advocates of this explanation, that when God created us in His own
image and made us equally with Himself of sovereign will (and we know we are free to
choose as we will) by His very so doing He surrendered at least partially His control over
us and of necessity limited thereby His foreknowledge concerning us. Plainly it is the old
time-worn controversy between two great schools of theology; between God's
sovereignty on one side (involving as it does His absolute foreknowledge and
predestination) and man's free will on the other, and between the horns of such a dilemma
the only thing to do is to confess a wise ignorance and hang on to both.
A controversion of God's perfect foreknowledge does not set well with most of us,
regardless of our denominational bias. The fear, however, of any belittling conception of
God its advocates would overcome by showing what the theory of such foreknowledge
really involves, leaving us to decide which is the greater injustice, if any, to the all-perfect
character of God.
The following from the work above quoted on "Science and Prayer" will help us to an
appreciation, if so be such is possible, of the position assumed by the advocates of the
limited knowledge theory. The author says: "No petitioner can plead with any genuine
unction unless he believes that he can actually effect some change in the purposes
existing in the divine mind at the time his prayer is offered. . . . If God foreknows
everything that will ever come to pass, all His own mental states must necessarily be

included in that foreknowledge. A moment's reflection will convince us that otherwise

there is not a single present intention or plan but what is exposed to the possibility of
modification. If a single thought or emotion is ever going to spring up in God's mind
unanticipated, God Himself must be as ignorant as we as to what part of His vast plan it
will pertain. And so, if we would logically defend a belief in the all-comprehensiveness
of God's foreknowledge, we must affirm that not a single new idea can arise in His mindnot a single new emotion be felt-and that if He is thus limited now He must have been
equally so at every moment in all the eternal past, and must be through all the years to
come; for if there ever has been, or ever will be, a moment when a new thought can thus
come, then during all the time preceding that moment the foreknowledge was incomplete.
Where does this lead? In what sort of an intellectual or emotional condition does this
irrefragable logic compel us to assert God to be continually? Unquestionably that of
perfect stagnation. No thought processes can be carried on under such conditions-no
succession of ideas, no change of mental state; but God must have been and must still be
imprisoned in a hopelessly dead calm. . . . When, then, did He form His plans for
creation? Under this supposition there never could have been a time when He began to
think about them. . . . If God has had no thought succession, He can have had no feeling;
His emotional state having ever necessarily been that of unbroken placidity-of absolute
apathy, His heart throbless as a stone. He could experience no change of feeling, for that
would involve thought-succession. From all the sources of joy or sorrow of which we can
conceive He would be utterly debarred - from pleasurable or painful memories, from
hopes and forebodings, from social sympathies, from emotions that accompany changes,
contrasts, surprises, from the glow of activity, even from the delights and griefs of
contemplation; for they all involve thought-movement. Therefore, under this supposition
God can have no emotional activity, for He would have no thought-activity for its
background. Thoughts must, of course, come and go, or the heart lies dead." "Such," he
says, "are the absurdities in which we become hopelessly entangled the moment we
attempt to defend the doctrine of God's perfect foreknowledge."
I was astounded. If this were true, it would solve my problem, but he didn't present any
Scripture for this idea just man's reasoning. I had already studied God's word and the
Bible said God worked all things after the counsel of His will. But I thought about his
statements. I must find a copy of that book by Kinsley, Science and Prayer, and see if
there was any Scripture to back up this argument.
I found the book and began to read it. However, it also seemed to be just philosophy.
Then, I read: "The doctrine of God's perfect foreknowledge is not only unphilosophical,
but also unscriptural." That encouraged me to read further. I got to the part that
Biederwolf had quoted. Then I realized Biederwolf had skipped the most important part
(for me), the reference to Scripture. It was there! Kinsley even admonished the reader:
"Read if you will the ninth chapter of Deuteronomy. Moses here rehearses the several
rebellions of Israel, and his three separate pleadings before the Lord, of forty days and
forty nights each, without either eating bread or drinking water. Each time he fell down

before a very angry God who had fully purposed, and had definitely announced his
purpose to destroy the rebels, and each time, if Moses can be credited, he actually
changed that purpose right then and there and rescued his people. The God here depicted
had none of that foreknowledge which theologians with such strange unanimity ascribe to
him. But, say you, [And many have made these statements often.] that and similar
accounts scattered throughout the Bible are simply instances of anthropomorphism, of
rhetorical accommodation, of describing in the language of human experiences and
human limitations what really transcends the human; that it was not the intent to have
these narrations interpreted as literal history, but as poetic approximations of dim
shadowings of really ineffable truths. It seems to me that it would be a strange way to
bring the truth within our comprehension, to state what is directly opposed to the truth,
and to reiterate the downright falsehood again and again, in a most misleading way, and
in a matter of such vital moment that all possibility of religious life depends on it, and
through which alone any lasting comfort comes to the hungry human soul."
As I read Deu 9 with a searching heart, it changed my life. Here is what shattered the
foundations of my Calvinistic system of theology: Deu 9:8-19 Also in Horeb you
provoked the Lord to wrath, so that the Lord was angry enough with you to have
destroyed you. 9 When I went up into the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the
tablets of the covenant which the Lord made with you, then I stayed on the mountain
forty days and forty nights. I neither ate bread nor drank water. 10 Then the Lord
delivered to me two tablets of stone written with the finger of God, and on them were all
the words which the Lord had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire in
the day of the assembly. 11 And it came to pass, at the end of forty days and forty nights,
that the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant. 12 Then the
Lord said to me, 'Arise, go down quickly from here, for your people whom you brought
out of Egypt have acted corruptly; they have quickly turned aside from the way which I
commanded them; they have made themselves a molded image.' 13 Furthermore the Lord
spoke to me, saying, "I have seen this people, and indeed they are a stiff-necked people.
14 Let Me alone, that I may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven; and
I will make of you a nation mightier and greater than they." 15 So I turned and came
down from the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire; and the two tablets of the
covenant were in my two hands. 16 And I looked, and behold, you had sinned against the
Lord your God-had made for yourselves a molded calf! You had turned aside quickly
from the way which the Lord had commanded you. 17 Then I took the two tablets and
threw them out of my two hands and broke them before your eyes. 18 And I fell down
before the Lord, as at the first, forty days and forty nights; I neither ate bread nor drank
water, because of all your sin which you committed in doing wickedly in the sight of the
Lord, to provoke Him to anger. 19 For I was afraid of the anger and hot displeasure with
which the Lord was angry with you, to destroy you. But the Lord listened to me at that
time also.

This Scripture shattered my presuppositions. Along with other Scripture it undermined

my Calvinistic mindset about the impassibility and immutability of God. Here was
Scripture I had read but never grasped before. Before long, I found that there was a vast
amount of Scripture which showed that God changed His mind - even repented. Since
that time, I have studied the Bible on this issue for thousands of hours.
Here are all of the main verses that caused me to reevaluate my position. The word,
repent, is an amazing word used by God to refer to His own actions in the Tanakh.
Repent, nachavm, is used, referring to God, many times in the Old Testament.
Calvin said that an anthropomorphism was used by God when He used this word for
Himself. But in Gen 6:5,6 when the Bible says that God repented. What did God mean
when He inspired Moses to write that He repented. Gen 6:5-7: "Then the Lord saw that
the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his
heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord repented, nachavm [it repented the
LORD] that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the
Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man
and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I repent, nachavm, that I have made
them."
What does the Bible show the meaning of this word is by the way it is used? Here are a
few passages of nachavm as it refers to man. Again, the Hebrew word, nachavm, means
repent or change your mind. I'll use bold letters to show the translation of nachavm.
Ex 13:17 Then it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God did not lead
them by way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest
perhaps the people change their minds when they see war, and return to Egypt.
Job 42:6 Therefore I abhor myself and repent in dust and ashes.
Jer 8:6 I listened and heard, but they do not speak aright. No man repented of his
wickedness, saying, what have I done? Everyone turned to his own course, as the horse
rushes into the battle.
Jer 31:19 Surely, after my turning, I repented; And after I was instructed, I struck myself
on the thigh; I was ashamed, yes, even humiliated, because I bore the reproach of my
youth.
From these passages it is clear that the word means a change of mind or heart. Man's
repentance seems to arise from fear, conviction of sin, shame, or abhorrence of himself.
Now here are the passages where God uses the same word, nachavm, repent.
Gen 6:4-9 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons
of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the
mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness
of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only
evil continually. 6 And the Lord repented [it repented the LORD] that He had made man
on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, I will destroy man
whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and
birds of the air, for I repent that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of

the Lord. 9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his
generations. Noah walked with God.
Ex 32:9-14 And the Lord said to Moses, I have seen this people, and indeed it is a stiffnecked people! 10 Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may burn hot against them
and I may consume them. And I will make of you a great nation. 11 Then Moses pleaded
with the Lord his God, and said: Lord, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people
whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty
hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, `He brought them out to harm them,
to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from
Your fierce wrath, and repent from this harm to Your people. 13 Remember Abraham,
Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, I
will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken
of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever. 14 So the Lord repented
from the harm which He said He would do to His people.
Jud 2:18-21 And when the Lord raised up judges for them, the Lord was with the judge
and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for the Lord
repented because of their groaning because of those who oppressed them and harassed
them. 19 And it came to pass, when the judge was dead, that they reverted and behaved
more corruptly than their fathers, by following other gods, to serve them and bow down
to them. They did not cease from their own doings nor from their stubborn way. 20 Then
the anger of the Lord was hot against Israel; and He said, Because this nation has
transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers, and has not heeded My
voice, 21 I also will no longer drive out before them any of the nations which Joshua left
when he died,
1 Sa 15:11-29,35 I repent that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from
following Me, and has not performed My commandments. And it grieved Samuel, and he
cried out to the Lord all night. 12 So when Samuel rose early in the morning to meet
Saul, it was told Samuel, saying, Saul went to Carmel, and indeed, he set up a monument
for himself; and he has gone on around, passed by, and gone down to Gilgal. 13 Then
Samuel went to Saul, and Saul said to him, Blessed are you of the Lord! I have performed
the commandment of the Lord. 14 But Samuel said, What then is this bleating of the
sheep in my ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear? 15 And Saul said, They have
brought them from the Amalekites; for the people spared the best of the sheep and the
oxen, to sacrifice to the Lord your God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed. 16 Then
Samuel said to Saul, Be quiet! And I will tell you what the Lord said to me last night.
And he said to him, Speak on. 17 So Samuel said, When you were little in your own eyes,
were you not head of the tribes of Israel? And did not the Lord anoint you king over
Israel? 18 Now the Lord sent you on a mission, and said, `Go, and utterly destroy the
sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are consumed. 19 Why then did
you not obey the voice of the Lord? Why did you swoop down on the spoil, and do evil in
the sight of the Lord? 20 And Saul said to Samuel, But I have obeyed the voice of the

Lord, and gone on the mission on which the Lord sent me, and brought back Agag king
of Amalek; I have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. 21 But the people took of the
plunder, sheep and oxen, the best of the things which should have been utterly destroyed,
to sacrifice to the Lord your God in Gilgal. 22 Then Samuel said: Has the Lord as great
delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, As in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to
obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the
sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected
the word of the Lord, He also has rejected you from being king. 24 Then Saul said to
Samuel, I have sinned, for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord and your
words, because I feared the people and obeyed their voice. 25 Now therefore, please
pardon my sin, and return with me, that I may worship the Lord. 26 But Samuel said to
Saul, I will not return with you, for you have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord
has rejected you from being king over Israel. 27 And as Samuel turned around to go
away, Saul seized the edge of his robe, and it tore. 28 So Samuel said to him, The Lord
has torn the kingdom of Israel from you today, and has given it to a neighbor of yours,
who is better than you. 29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent. For He is
not a man, that He should repent. . . . 35 And Samuel went no more to see Saul until the
day of his death. Nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul, and the Lord repented that He
had made Saul king over Israel.
2 Sa 24:1,9-16 Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved
David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. [Also see 1 Chr 21:1 below.] 9
Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to the king. And there were in Israel
eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five
hundred thousand men. 10 And David's heart condemned him after he had numbered the
people. So David said to the Lord, I have sinned greatly in what I have done; but now, I
pray, O Lord, take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly. 11
Now when David arose in the morning, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Gad,
David's seer, saying, 12 Go and tell David, Thus says the Lord: I offer you three things;
choose one of them for yourself, that I may do it to you. 13 So Gad came to David and
told him; and he said to him, Shall seven years of famine come to you in your land? Or
shall you flee three months before your enemies, while they pursue you? Or shall there be
three days plague in your land? Now consider and see what answer I should take back to
Him who sent me. 14 And David said to Gad, I am in great distress. Please let us fall into
the hand of the Lord, for His mercies are great; but do not let me fall into the hand of
man. 15 So the Lord sent a plague upon Israel from the morning till the appointed time.
From Dan to Beersheba seventy thousand men of the people died. 16 And when the angel
stretched out His hand over Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented from the
destruction, and said to the angel who was destroying the people, It is enough; now
restrain your hand. And the angel of the Lord was by the threshing floor of Araunah the
Jebusite.

1 Chr 21:1,15 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. 15
And God sent an angel to Jerusalem to destroy it. As he was destroying, the Lord looked
and repented of the disaster, and said to the angel who was destroying, It is enough; now
restrain your hand. And the angel of the Lord stood by the threshing floor of Ornan the
Jebusite.
Psalm 90:13 Return, O Lord! How long? And [repent concerning] Your servants.
Psa 106:45 And for their sake He remembered His covenant and repented according to
the multitude of His mercies.
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn and the heavens above be black because I have
spoken. I have purposed and will not repent, nor will I turn back from it.
Jer 15:6 You have forsaken Me, says the Lord, You have gone backward. Therefore I will
stretch out My hand against you and destroy you; I am weary of repenting!
Jer 18:7-12 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck
up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from
its evil, I will repent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I
speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does
evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will repent concerning the good
with which I said I would benefit it. 11 Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to
the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus says the Lord: Behold, I am fashioning a
disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and
make your ways and your doings good. 12 And they said, That is hopeless! So we will
walk according to our own plans, and we will every one obey the dictates of his evil
heart.
Jer 20:16 And let that man be like the cities Which the Lord overthrew, and did not
repent; Let him hear the cry in the morning And the shouting at noon,
Jer 26:2,3,13,18 Thus says the Lord: Stand in the court of the Lords house, and speak to
all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the Lords house, all the words that I
command you to speak to them. Do not diminish a word. 3 Perhaps everyone will listen
and turn from his evil way, that I may repent concerning the calamity which I purpose to
bring on them because of the evil of their doings. 13 Now therefore, amend your ways
and your doings, and obey the voice of the Lord your God; then the Lord will repent
concerning the doom that He has pronounced against you. 18 Micah of Moresheth
prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and spoke to all the people of Judah,
saying, Thus says the Lord of hosts: Zion shall be plowed like a field, Jerusalem shall
become heaps of ruins, and the mountain of the temple like the bare hills of the forest. 19
Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah ever put him to death? Did he not fear the Lord
and seek the Lords favor? And the Lord repented concerning the doom which He had
pronounced against them. But we are doing great evil against ourselves.
Jer 42:10 If you will still remain in this land, then I will build you and not pull you down,
and I will plant you and not pluck you up. For I repent concerning the disaster that I have
brought upon you.

Ezek 24:14 I, the Lord, have spoken it; It shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not
hold back, Nor will I spare, Nor will I repent; According to your ways And according to
your deeds They will judge you, Says the Lord God.
Joel 2:11-14 The Lord gives voice before His army, For His camp is very great; For
strong is the One who executes His word. For the day of the Lord is great and very
terrible; Who can endure it? 12 Now, therefore, says the Lord, Turn to Me with all your
heart, With fasting, with weeping, and with mourning. 13 So rend your heart, and not
your garments; Return to the Lord your God, For He is gracious and merciful, Slow to
anger, and of great kindness; And He repents from doing harm. 14 Who knows if He will
turn and repent, And leave a blessing behind Him - A grain offering and a drink offering
For the Lord your God?
Amos 7:1-6 Thus the Lord God showed me: Behold, He formed locust swarms at the
beginning of the late crop; indeed it was the late crop after the king's mowings. 2 And so
it was, when they had finished eating the grass of the land, that I said: O Lord God,
forgive, I pray! Oh, that Jacob may stand, For he is small! 3 So the Lord repented
concerning this. It shall not be, said the Lord. 4 Thus the Lord God showed me: Behold,
the Lord God called for conflict by fire, and it consumed the great deep and devoured the
territory. 5 Then I said: O Lord God, cease, I pray! Oh, that Jacob may stand, For he is
small! 6 So the Lord repented concerning this. This also shall not be, said the Lord God.
Jonah 3:6-4:2 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and
laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to
be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his
nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them
eat, or drink water. 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to
God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that
we may not perish? 10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way;
and God repented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He
did not do it. 4:1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he
prayed to the Lord, and said, Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my
country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and
merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who repents from
doing harm.
Zec 8:14,15 For thus says the Lord of hosts: Just as I determined to punish you when
your fathers provoked Me to wrath, says the Lord of hosts, and I would not repent, 15 so
again in these days I am determined to do good to Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.
These passages show that the word means a change of mind or heart. However, God
changes His mind because of mercy, compassion, or righteous judgment.
God is immutable, unchanging, in His character, love, mercy, but He is not immutable in
the sense of the theologians who have based their theology on the Greek philosophy
which states that God is outside of time. I had to translate Plato's Apology when I got my

Greek at UCLA. He explained God this way in, "A dialogue between Socrates and
Adeimantus."
"Is it not true that to be altered and moved by something else happens least to things that
are in the best condition . . . that the healthiest and strongest is least altered. . . . would be
least disturbed and altered by any external affection . . . least liable to be changed by time
and other influences. . . It is universally true then, that that which is in the best state . . .
admits least alteration by something else. . . Then does he (God) change himself for the
better and to something fairer, or for the worse and to something uglier than himself? It
must necessarily . . . be for the worse if he is changed . . . the gods themselves are
incapable of change. . . . Then God is altogether simple and true in deed and word, and
neither changes himself . . . ."
Now, if God didn't mean that He repented, what did He mean? As we have seen, God
used the word nachavm for His own actions many times. Every time it is used of God, it
is in a context of changing His mind or purpose in punishing or rewarding a person or
group of people. The use of this word was so appalling to Augustine, the creator of what
we call Calvinism, that he wrote about it in his book, On the Morals of the Catholic
Church. Augustine explained away the doctrines of the Old Testament that he thought
were so absurd. He strongly disagreed with the literal interpretation of the Old Testament.
Here is what he wrote about our twenty-six passages:
"We do not worship a God who repents, or is envious, or needy . . . . These and such like
are the silly notions . . . the fancies of old women or of children . . . and . . . those by
whom these passages are literally understood. . . . And should any one suppose that
anything in God's substance or nature can suffer change or conversion, he will be held
guilty of wild profanity. (Oats, W. J., "On the Morals of the Catholic Church," Basic
Writings of Saint Augustine, New York: Random House Publishers, 1948, p. 327.)
With this philosophical bias of Plato and Augustine in mind, I want to respond to some of
the passages that are used to answer "the silly notions . . . the fancies of old women or of
children . . . and . . . those by whom these passages are literally understood."; the
passages that Calvinists say show God doesn't change at all.
In Num 23:19 it says "God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man that He
should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make
it good?" What does this mean? Does this contradict the many portions of Scripture that
say God does repent? When the caller turned here instead of answering my question
about God repenting in Gen 6:5-7, why didn't he think the Numbers passage was an
anthropomorphism as well? In order to find out what is going on here, let's look at the
context.
In Num 22, Balak, the king of the Moabites, was afraid when he saw what Israel had
done to the Amorites, 1-4. So he sent messengers to his homeland in Mesopotamia to
have the soothsayer, Balaam, come and curse Israel, 5-11. But God told Balaam not to go,
12-14. So King Balak tried again, promising great honor to Balaam, 15-17. Then Balaam
said he could not go "beyond the word of the LORD my God". I might add that his heart

was not really sincere in following Yahweh, for 2 Peter 2:15,16 says "They have forsaken
the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved
the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey
speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet." And Jude 11 says,
"Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of
Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah." He then told them to stick
around and he'd see what the LORD would say to him, 18,19.
God let Balaam go to Balak, but He ordered him to say only what He told him. According
to Keil & Delitzsch, "From the use of the participle . . .) instead of the imperfect, with
which it is not interchangeable, it is evident, on the one hand, that the anger of God was
not excited by the fact that Balaam went with the elders of Moab, but by his behaviour."
Further, " . . . that the occurrence which followed did not take place at the
commencement, but rather towards the close of the journey. As it was a longing for
wages and honour that had induced the soothsayer to undertake the journey, the nearer he
came to his destination, we can see, the more his mind was on the money and honors . . .
that he was in danger of casting to the winds the condition which had been imposed upon
him by God."
That's why "the Angel of Yahweh took His stand in the way as an adversary against him"
(v. 22). After Balaam's encounter, verse 35 says, "Then the Angel of the LORD said to
Balaam, Go with the men, but only the word that I speak to you, that you shall speak." So
King Balak welcomed Balaam, but Balaam had gotten the message. He told the king he
could only speak what God put in his mouth 36-39.
So Balak offered oxen and sheep to Yahweh, to have God look favorable on him, that is,
to bribe Him. So he took Balaam up "to the high places of Baal" for a better view, so he
could see the Israelites to better curse them. 40-41 Balaam also got into the act by telling
him to "build seven altars for me here". Balaam wanted to bribe Yahweh also for he said,
"perhaps the LORD will come to meet me". Yahweh did, 23:1-6 but He caused Balaam to
bless Israel 7-10. Balak got angry, 11-13.
Then, in verses 14-18 it says, "So he brought him to the field of Zophim, to the top of
Pisgah, and built seven altars, and offered a bull and a ram on each altar 15 And he said to
Balak, Stand here by your burnt offering while I meet the LORD over there 16 Then the
LORD met Balaam, and put a word in his mouth, and said, Go back to Balak, and thus
you shall speak 17 So he came to him, and there he was, standing by his burnt offering,
and the princes of Moab were with him And Balak said to him, What has the LORD
spoken? 18 Then he took up his oracle and said: Rise up, Balak, and hear! Listen to me,
son of Zippor!"
Now we must realize this is the third time Balak has offered sacrifices to Yahweh, trying
to bribe Him to curse Israel. God has gotten fed up with this stuff. Your trying to bribe
me? Don't you know who I am? Well, let's read what God put in Balaam's mouth. He
caused Balaam to prophesy that wonderful statement, Numbers 23:19,20: "God is not a
man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will

He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? 20 Behold, I have received
a command to bless; He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it."
From this, we can see that God would not lie. He has already blessed Israel twice. Now,
just because they sacrifice all these sacrifices, is that going to change God? He is not like
a man who can be bribed. Every man may have his price, but our wonderful God isn't
swayed by bribes. In certain cases, He won't repent.
Another example which shows He wouldn't repent is in 1 Sam 15. In this situation, God
told King Saul to attack the Amelikites for what they did to Israel when Israel came up
from Egypt. He told him in verse 3, to " . . . utterly destroy all that they have, and do not
spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel
and donkey."
Saul did what God said. He attacked the Amalekites, but he also disobeyed God. Here is
what he did in verses 8 and 9: "He also took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and
utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. 9 But Saul and the people
spared Agag and the best of the sheep, the oxen, the fatlings, the lambs, and all that was
good, and were unwilling to utterly destroy them. But everything despised and worthless,
that they utterly destroyed."
So, what did God do? He repented, was sorry, changed His mind in regard to King Saul.
Verse 11 says, "I repent that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from
following Me, and has not performed My commandments."
The next day Samuel went to Saul. When Saul saw him, he said in verse 13-29, "Blessed
are you of the LORD! I have performed the commandment of the LORD." But Samuel
got right to the point. 14 But Samuel said, "What then is this bleating of the sheep in my
ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?" 15 And Saul said, "They have brought
them from the Amalekites; for the people spared the best of the sheep and the oxen, to
sacrifice to the LORD your God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed." 16 Then
Samuel said to Saul, "Be quiet! And I will tell you what the LORD said to me last night."
And he said to him, "Speak on." 17 So Samuel said, 18 "Now the LORD sent you on a
mission, and said, 'Go, and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against
them until they are consumed.' 19 Why then did you not obey the voice of the LORD?
Why did you swoop down on the spoil, and do evil in the sight of the LORD?" 20 And
Saul said to Samuel, "But I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and gone on the mission
on which the LORD sent me, and brought back Agag king of Amalek; I have utterly
destroyed the Amalekites. 21 "But the people took of the plunder, sheep and oxen, the
best of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice to the LORD
your God in Gilgal." 22 Then Samuel said: "Has the LORD as great delight in burnt
offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better
than sacrifice and to heed than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,
and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the
LORD, He also has rejected you from being king." 24 Then Saul said to Samuel, "I have
sinned, for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD and your words, because

I feared the people and obeyed their voice. 25 Now therefore, please pardon my sin, and
return with me, that I may worship the LORD." 26 But Samuel said to Saul, "I will not
return with you, for you have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected
you from being king over Israel." 27 And as Samuel turned around to go away, Saul
seized the edge of his robe, and it tore. 28 So Samuel said to him, "The LORD has torn
the kingdom of Israel from you today, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is
better than you. 29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent. For He is not a
man, that He should repent."
God would not repent of this specific statement. Why? Verse 23 again, "Because you
have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king." God
would not repent of this, probably because Saul was not truly repentant. Then verse 35
repeats God's repentance in making Saul king to begin with, 35 "And Samuel went no
more to see Saul until the day of his death. Nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul, and
the LORD repented that He had made Saul king over Israel."
Psa 110:4 is another passage which says God would not repent. "The Lord has sworn and
will not repent. You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." When
God swears, it is unchangeable just as His counsel is. That's why the two are combined in
Heb 6:17,18, "Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise
the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, 18 that by two immutable
things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who
have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us." Therefore, we can see that
Christ's priesthood was absolute. Nothing could change that. God does not repent of a
sworn oath.
The next passage is Mal 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not
consumed, O sons of Jacob." Remember, immutability means unchanging. There are
some portions of Scripture which say God does not change. First, "I do not change" are
the words lo shaniti not nacham. This passage shows God's trustworthiness. He is not
going to go back on His promise to David even though David's people have become so
corrupt. That's what Psa 132:10,11 shows, "For Your servant David's sake, do not turn
away the face of Your Anointed. The Lord has sworn in truth to David. He will not turn
yashuv from it: 'I will set upon your throne the fruit of your body.'" This passage in
Malachi, then, is made because of God's specific promise to David.
Psa 89 is the most comprehensive in showing God's faithfulness to David as shown in
Malachi. 2 For I have said, "Mercy shall be built up forever; Your faithfulness You shall
establish in the very heavens. 3 I have made a covenant [unconditional] with My chosen,
I have sworn to My servant David: 4 'Your seed I will establish forever, and build up your
throne to all generations.'" Selah 5 And the heavens will praise Your wonders, O LORD;
Your faithfulness also in the assembly of the saints. 20 I have found My servant David;
With My holy oil I have anointed him, 21 With whom My hand shall be established; Also
My arm shall strengthen him. 24 But My faithfulness and My mercy shall be with him,
and in My name his horn shall be exalted. 27 Also I will make him My firstborn, the

highest of the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy I will keep for him forever, and My
covenant shall stand firm with him. 29 His seed also I will make to endure forever, and
his throne as the days of heaven. 30 If his sons forsake My law and do not walk in My
judgments, 31 if they break My statutes and do not keep My commandments, 32 then I
will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. 33
Nevertheless My lovingkindness I will not utterly take from him, nor allow My
faithfulness to fail. 34 My covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out
of My lips. 35 Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David: 36 His seed
shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before Me; 37 It shall be established
forever like the moon, Even like the faithful witness in the sky." Selah.
Finally, in Jer 33:17,20-22: For thus says the LORD: "David shall never lack a man to sit
on the throne of the house of Israel. 20 Thus says the LORD: If you can break My
covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and
night in their season, 21 then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so
that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My
ministers. 22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea
measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who
minister to Me.
I think this shows that God made a specific, unconditional promise to David. He will not
go back on His covenant with David. That's what it means in Mal 3:6 when He said "I
will not change."
I think I have shown that God repented or changed His mind in many portions of
Scripture. This is not a change in His character, but usually a change in His stated actions
toward man. Our God is a God of mercy, love, compassion and passion. What a
wonderful God is He!
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Does God know everything?
If God doesn't know the future, how can He assure anyone a place in Heaven?
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Erich,
Our God is so powerful that anything He determines to happen, He makes happen. He
determined that anyone who trusted in Christ would become part of the corporate body of
Christ. He predestined any member of the body of Christ to be conformed to His image.
Eph 1:4-6 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, to be holy and
without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus
Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory
of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
Further, once we have the inheritance that belongs to members of the body of Christ, He
predestined us to be secure in Christ. He sealed us so we could not lose our salvation.

Eph 1:11-14 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to
the purpose of Him who works [the] all things [Thats us.] according to the counsel of
His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In
Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in
whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is
the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the
praise of His glory.
We are in good hands.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Were the names written from the foundation of the world?
Greetings,
How would one explain the following two verses in relation to predestination? Were the
names written from the foundation of the world, or, simply was the book in existence
from the foundation of the world?
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not
written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the
bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder,
whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when
they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Thank you,
Wade Green
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Wade,
This is a question that comes up a lot. I believe I can show you that the names to which
He is referring were never written in the book from the foundation of the world.
Apparently the book was in existence from the foundation of the world. Again, we must
see that the lamb slain passages in Revelation show that something never happened. i.e.
Their names were never written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been
written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. When
we compare Rev 13:8 with 17:8, we see that the phrase from the foundation of the
world is referring to those whose names were never written in the Book of Life of the
Lamb slain. Its very important to see that the Lamb was not slain from the foundation of
the world.
Notice in Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the
bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose
names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they
see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. These verses show that some people never

had their names written in the book of life. In order to have their names written, they
would have to believe in the gospel that God told them. These people never believed.
I cant emphasize it too much. These verses in Revelation show that there are people who
never believed in Gods message of salvation. Therefore, their names were never written
in the Lambs Book of Life. Both of these prepositional phrases, from the foundation of
the world, modify when the names were not written in the Book of Life. Again, many
have never believed. Because they never believed, their names were never written in the
Book of Life. Some, in that future dispensation of the tribulation had their names written
in the Book of Life, but if they did not overcome, some were threatened with having their
names blotted out: Rev 3:5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I
will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My
Father and before His angels.
I hope this answers your question to your satisfaction.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: How could God change His mind if He is perfect?
I understand that God predestined our lives but can He change His mind?
I read your essay about Calvinism versus the Bible.
How could God change His mind if He is perfect?
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
I agree with you that God is perfect. When we read about Him in the Bible, we find out a
lot of things about our wonderful God. His ability to change is one of the things about
Him that makes Him so wonderful.
Sometimes God changes His mind and revokes a blessing that He said He would give. He
did that when He said in Ex 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days
may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you. But, later, Israel
made a golden calf and worshipped it.
God got extremely angry. Here is what He said to Moses: Ex 32:9,10: "I have seen this
people, and indeed it is a stiff-necked people! 10 Now therefore, let Me alone, that My
wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them. And I will make of you a
great nation."
First, did God change from being happy to being burning hot in His wrath? Yes.
Did God tell Moses He would make Moses a great nation instead of the Israel that was
disobeying Him? Yes.
Fortunately for Israel, Moses stood in the gap and prayed to God. Here is what he prayed:
Ex 32:11-13 Then Moses pleaded with the LORD his God, and said: "LORD, why does
Your wrath burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of
Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians speak,
and say, 'He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to
consume them from the face of the earth'? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and repent from
this harm to Your people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to

whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, 'I will multiply your descendants as
the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and
they shall inherit it forever.'"
What did God do? Because of Moses' prayer, He told Moses that He changed His mind.
Ex 32:14 So the LORD repented from the harm which He said He would do to His
people.
There are some times when He says He will not repent, change His mind. Then, he won't
change it. One of those times was when He promised King David that there would always
be someone on David's throne. 2 Sam 7:12-16 "When your days are fulfilled and you rest
with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I
will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish
the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he
commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons
of men. 15 But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I
removed from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be established
forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever."
Because of that statement, God inspired Malachi to write this: Mal 3:6 "For I am the
LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob." This is
backed up many times in God's word. Here are a few passages where God shows He will
not change when it comes to His promise to David:
Ps 18:50 Great deliverance He gives to His king, and shows mercy to His anointed, to
David and his descendants forevermore.
Ps 89:2-4,20,29-39,49 For I have said, "Mercy shall be built up forever; Your faithfulness
You shall establish in the very heavens. 3 I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have
sworn to My servant David: 4 'Your seed I will establish forever, and build up your
throne to all generations.'" 20 I have found My servant David; With My holy oil I have
anointed him, 29 His seed also I will make to endure forever, and his throne as the days
of heaven. 30 "If his sons forsake My law And do not walk in My judgments, 31 If they
break My statutes And do not keep My commandments, 32 Then I will punish their
transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. 33 Nevertheless My
lovingkindness I will not utterly take from him, nor allow My faithfulness to fail. 34 My
covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips. 35 Once I have
sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David: 36 His seed shall endure forever, and his
throne as the sun before Me; 37 It shall be established forever like the moon, even like
the faithful witness in the sky." 38 But You have cast off and abhorred, You have been
furious with Your anointed. 39 You have renounced the covenant of Your servant; You
have profaned his crown by casting it to the ground. 49 Lord, where are Your former
lovingkindnesses, which You swore to David in Your truth?
Ps 132:11-12 he LORD has sworn in truth to David; He will not turn from it: "I will set
upon your throne the fruit of your body. 12 If your sons will keep My covenant and My

testimony which I shall teach them, their sons also shall sit upon your throne
forevermore."
Jer 33:17,20-26 "For thus says the LORD: 'David shall never lack a man to sit on the
throne of the house of Israel'" 20 "Thus says the LORD: 'If you can break My covenant
with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in
their season, 21 then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he
shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.
22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I
multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.'" 23
Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying, 24 "Have you not considered
what these people have spoken, saying, 'The two families which the LORD has chosen,
He has also cast them off'? Thus they have despised My people, as if they should no more
be a nation before them. 25 "Thus says the LORD: 'If My covenant is not with day and
night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, 26 then I will cast
away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his
descendants to be rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will
cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them.'"
God lets people know in no uncertain terms when He will not change.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Is the body of Christ predestined unto salvation?
Hi Bob,
How do we know that the corporate Body of Christ that has been predestined unto
salvation is not merely made up of individually predestined people? Is there any scripture
that says people are not individually predestined to join the Body of Christ?
Also, what books/software/language programs would you recommend for learning
Greek? My university doesn't offer Greek, but I am interested in learning.
Thank you for your help.
God Bless,
Ryan
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Hi Ryan,
According to Eph 1:3, we see in that God wants to pour out spiritual blessings on us
Christians. For Christians, we see that they are accomplished by the Father. Eph 1:3
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every
spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ." But, it goes further. God chose us,
corporately, in Christ. Whether this corporation was foreknown as a corporation or as
individuals, is debatable. Eph 1:4 "in as much as He chose us in Him before the
foundation of the world." I'll deal with that later, but first, what does "chose," mean?
This word in the Greek can be translated I select, or I choose. So the first thing we should
know, is Jesus Christ is the selected one. Christ is the one in and by whom the Father

accomplishes His blessings. Isaiah 42:1 prophesied: "Behold! My Servant whom I

uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He
will bring forth justice to the Gentiles." Christ was chosen to be the redeemer, not just for
Israel, but also for Gentiles.
Now the body of Christ was a mystery, hidden in God until He revealed it to the Apostle
Paul. Eph 3:1-9 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles-- 2 if
indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for
you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly
written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the
mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it
has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles
should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and mutual partakers of His promise in Christ
through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of
God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the
least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the
unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the dispensation of the
mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through
Jesus Christ.
Colossians reiterates this: Col 1:24-27 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up
in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions for Christ, for the sake of His body, which is
the church, 25&26 of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God
which was given to me for you, to complete the word of God, the mystery, which has
been hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now has been revealed to His
saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this
mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory.
Getting back to Eph 1:3-14, first, the whole passage: "Blessed be the God and Father of
our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly
places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we
should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to
adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6
to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the
riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9
having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which
He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might
gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on
earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined
according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His
will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him
you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom
also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the

guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the
praise of His glory."
When we look at it more closely, I believe the election of men is only in Christ. When a
person yields to the prompting of the Holy Spirit and believes that Christ died for him,
then, he becomes a member of Christ's body, the church. Outside of Christ, according to
the Bible, there is no election of anyone. In Eph 1:4, God chose us in Christ. In verse 5,
God gave the predestinated adoption to us. In verse 11, God definitely showed that we are
inheritors in Christ. In verse 13, God sealed us in Christ. Therefore, we see love and
blessings here, not fatalism.
So, we are chosen and sealed because we believed in Christ. Eph 1:4,12,13 "just as He
chose us in Him 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your
salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise."
He didn't choose us to be saved. He wants all to be saved, 1 Tim 2: 3-6 "For this is good
and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who wills all men to be saved and to
come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between
God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified
in due time."
He chose us to be holy and blameless. Eph 1:4 "He chose us in Him before the
foundation of the world, to be holy and without blame before Him in love." He chose
everyone who would believe in Christ to be holy and blameless.
Christ paid with His life. He made it certain with predestination. Eph 1:5 "having
predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good
pleasure of His will. And He did all this by His grace. Eph 1:6 "to the praise of the glory
of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.
So, God's election is not to salvation. It is to perfection because we are in Christ. It is for
our eternal security. We who trust in Christ as our Savior have this security. This is a
spiritual blessing for the body of Christ alone.
Now, in verse 5, what is God's will? I believe we can break God's will down into 3
scriptural categories. His intentional will (qevlhma), His circumstantial will (qevlhma),
and His ultimate, or determinate will or counsel (boulhv).
When we look at His intentional will, the first thing we should see is this. We were
created for His will (pleasure). The question we must keep in mind here, is: do we ever
thwart God's intentional will? Rev 4:11 "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and
honor and power; For You created all things, and by Your will they exist and were created
[kaiV diaV toV qevlhma sou h\san kaiV e*ktivsqhsan]." Next, as part of this, He wants us
all to love Him.
Mk 12:30,31 "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your
soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment. 31
And the second, like it, is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other
commandment greater than these." 1 Co 16:22 "If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus

Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come! Then, He wants us all to love one another."
John 13:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have
loved you, that you also love one another." 1 Th 4:9,10 "But concerning brotherly love
you have no need that I should write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love
one another; 10 and indeed you do so toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia.
But we urge you, brethren, that you increase more and more.
Remember my question we must keep in mind here: do we ever thwart God's intentional
will? In answer, we see that He wills all to be saved. 1 Tim 2:4 "who wills all men to be
saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." But, because man totally rebelled
against God, in order to receive salvation, man must believe God and do what He says for
salvation. Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom
of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." Mat 12:50 "For whoever
does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother." Heb 10:36
"For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may
receive the promise." For us in this dispensation of grace, His will is found in Acts 16:31,
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."
Next, we see His will is that we be holy. 1 Th 4:3-8 "For this is the will of God, your
sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should
know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust,
like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and
defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also
forewarned you and testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. 8
Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His
Holy Spirit." Do we thwart His will here?
Then, we find His will is that we function in the local body. 1 Co 12:18,20-27 But now
God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased (hjqevlhsen).
20 But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to
the hand, "I have no need of you"; nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."
22 No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary.
23 And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we
bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, 24 but our
presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor
to that part which lacks it, 25 that there should be no schism in the body, but that the
members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all
the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
Further, we find His will is that we all know the mystery. Eph 3:8,9 To me, who am less
than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the
Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the dispensation
of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created
all things through Jesus Christ. Col 1:27 "To them God willed to make known what are

the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you,
the hope of glory." Do all Christians know "what is the dispensation of the mystery"?
And then, His will is that we teach the mystery to others. 2 Ti 2:1-2 You therefore, my
son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that you have heard
from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach
others also.
Next, we see His will is that we work out our salvation. Phi 2:12-13 Therefore, my
beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in
my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who
works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
As you can see by now, God's will can be thwarted by us just as Israel thwarted His will
for them as recorded in Psa 78:40,41 How often they [Israel] provoked Him in the
wilderness and grieved Him in the desert! 41 Yes, again and again they tempted God and
limited the Holy One of Israel.
His circumstantial will - based on His laws. Natural laws such as gravity, the 2nd law of
thermodynamics, etc. Spiritual laws such as: Suffering, 2 Ti 3:12 Yes, and all who desire
to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. Prayer, Phi 4:6-7 Be anxious for
nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your
requests be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all
understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Meditating on His
word, Phi 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble,
whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever
things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy;
meditate on these things. 1 Ti 4:16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in
them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. Reward, 2 Co
5:9-11 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to
Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may
receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known
to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. Col 3:23-25 And whatever
you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you
will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he who
does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality.
Finally, the one you asked about, His ultimate or determinate will, or counsel (boulhv).
First of all, it cannot be thwarted. Lk 22:22 "And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been
determined, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!" Acts 2:23 "Him, being
delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by
lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death." Rom 9:19 You will say to me then,
"Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will (boulhv)?" And now, your
verse, Eph 1:11-14 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined
according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel (boulh;n)

of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in
whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is
the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the
praise of His glory. Heb 6:17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the
heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath.
His counsel is connected with His power. Isa 46:10-11 Declaring the end from the
beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel
(boulhv LXX) shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure (bebouvleumai),' 11 Calling a
bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel (bebouvleumai), from a far
country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed (bouvlomai)
it; I will also do it.
His counsel makes provision for the salvation of all. 2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack
concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not
counseling any to perish but all to have room for repentance (mhV boulovmenov" tina"
a*polevsqai a*llaV pavnta" ei*" metavnoian cwrh'sai).
Along with this, we find that predestination means to determine beforehand. The BGD
Greek Lexicon gives this definition (edited) proorizo decide upon beforehand, predestine,
of God predestine someone. When we put our trust for our salvation into Christ and the
fact that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again, then, the Holy Spirit baptizes
us into the body of Christ. Because we are put into Christ by the Holy Spirit, we are put
into a predestined program. God had already predestined the body of Christ to be holy
and blameless before Him in love: Eph 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord
Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in
Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be
holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as Sons
by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
He also predestined us to be conformed to His Son's image in Rom 8:29: "For whom He
foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be
the firstborn among many brethren." This predestination is for our security once we trust
Christ as our Savior.
Most important, and in answer to your question, His counsel makes our salvation very
secure, because God performs everything that must be done for our benefit once we're
saved according to your passage: Eph 1:11,12: In Him also we have obtained an
inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things
according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to
the praise of His glory." The "all things" in verse 11, that is the body of Christ according
to Eph 1:23: "which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all [according to the Greek,
who fills the all things] in all."

Therefore, we experience the security of predestination. Although it is one of the most

disliked doctrines, it is really one of our greatest spiritual blessings. Predestination is not
what Calvinists try to make it. God doesn't make everything happen as they say.
Instead of pursuing the idea any further, I want to emphasize again that predestination
pertains to our security, not our salvation. Our inheritance is predestined. God takes great
pleasure in doing this for us. We become a new creation, we receive a new name, we have
a new identity in Christ, and our inheritance is predestined. How spectacular, that God
did all of these things for us. That's why I see predestination as a triumph to His praise.
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the
Beloved. Paul rejoices in this spiritual blessing. Just think, we're secure in Christ because
it is God's pleasure to make us secure. We should exult in this blessing too, because this
grace of predestination is poured out on us. It is our grace, we are accepted because we
are in Christ.
Our response to this wonderful spiritual blessing of security should be like Paul's
response in Eph 3:14-21 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would
grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His
Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you,
being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints
what is the width and length and depth and height - 19 to know the love of Christ which
passes knowledge; that you may be filled unto all the fullness of God. 20 Now to Him
who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the
power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all the
generations, of the age of the ages. Amen.
In Christ,
Bob
Question: Is there luck or chance in the Bible?
Dear Mr. Hill,
When I read from my Bible I find that although the word luck is nowhere to be found,
the word chance is found about six or seven times and the word chanceth is found
once. In one occurance it is Jesus himself who quotes the word chance. I was raised in
churches where I would frequently hear, There is no such thing as luck. or There is no
such thing as luck in the life of a christian.. Since I believe in the concept of self limited sovereign control, it only seems logical to me that there really must be such a
thing as luck not only from our perspective as humans but even from Gods perspective
as well. I would really like to hear from you what your thoughts are on the reality of luck
and chance in the lives of both sinners and saints especially since you are an advocate of
the open view. I would like to say that the only way that I can read the bible the way that
God wants me to is to first remove my rose colored denominational glasses and also any
other doctrinally biased glasses ( or blinders like on a horse ) I might be wearing and
simply allow the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth whether it conforms to what I like

or not. To be honest, removing those glasses is quite a challenge and I cannot claim to be
very successful at it even though it is the right thing to do. Getting back to chance and
luck, I find that the attempt to explain that although the scriptures mention the word
chance it is only real from our perspective and never ever real from Gods perspective
to be an attempt to make the scriptures conform to previously held beliefs. Thank you for
reading my letter and for any thoughts you might have and any scriptures you might point
me to.
Sincerly,
Yankee,
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Yankee,
I found only 4 instances of chance in the NKJV. They are listed below. 1 Sa 6:9 & 2 Sa
1:6 are not statements by speakers who had the credentials to be speaking for God. The
passages could also be translated by coincidence. The passage in Ecc 9:11 is written by
the preacher, under the sun. This is Gods inspired account of mans view, under the sun.
It has no credence for our present subject, in my estimation.
The NT passage, Lk 10:31, can be translaed coincidence, and thats what I think it was.
1 Sa 6:9 And watch: if it goes up the road to its own territory, to Beth Shemesh, then He
has done us this great evil. But if not, then we shall know that it is not His hand that
struck us it happened to us by chance [ hr,q]mi ].
hr,q]mi n.m. accident, chance, fortune 1. accident, chance. 2. fortune, fate.
2 Sa 1:6 Then the young man who told him said, "As I happened by chance [hr,q;] to be
on Mount Gilboa, there was Saul, leaning on his spear; and indeed the chariots and
horsemen followed hard after him.
[hr,q;] n.[m.] chance, accident chance.]
Eccl 9:11 I returned and saw under the sun thatThe race is not to the swift, Nor the
battle to the strong, Nor bread to the wise, Nor riches to men of understanding, Nor favor
to men of skill; But time and chance [hr,q]yI] happen to them all.
Lk 10:31 Now by chance [by coincidence] a certain priest came down that road. And
when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
sugkuriva, a", hJ (Hippocr.: CMG I 1 p. 42, 16; Sym. 1 Km 6:9; Hesychius) coincidence,
chance kata; sugkurivan by coincidence (Eustath., In Il. 3, 23 p. 376, 11) Lk 10:31
Therefore, even though I believe that many things happen by chance or coincidence, I
dont believe the chance is luck. I see no basis for it. But, I dont see everything
determined beforehand either. Only Gods eternal purpose and our security, once we trust
Christ, are predestined.
in Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: Does God know the future?
Good morning, Bob.

I have a quick question about Open Theism, specifically how you believe. I've recently
been forced to consider a variation of my belief that God does not see the future. That
variation says that He does not see the future because He CHOOSES not to, but He could
if He wanted to. What are your thoughts on that? I've never considered it before. It is an
interesting thought, but I don't believe the future exists, even from God's perspective.
Therefore, He would NOT be able to LITERALLY see it.
BTW, I'm a long time admirer of your work at Derby Bible Church and Derby School of
Theology. I enjoy your writings and respect your opinion greatly. Got your e-mail address
from the forum at BiblicalAnswers.com. Thank you for your time.
Randy Arendell
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Good evening Randy,
At one time I actually held to that view until I realized that I had no biblical basis for
believing that. I came to understand that the whole concept of God outside of time and
seeing all things as an eternal now was from Greek philosophy and, in modern times,
from the theory of relativity.
Now, I understand from the Bible that God can know the future. But the Bible shows us
when He does. He determines it. When He determines it, He makes it happen. Therefore,
He can know that it will happen, but that does not mean that He knows it because He
looks into the future to know it.
As you seem to know, the Hebrew word nacham, repent, is used in the Bible in reference
to God over 20 times. The one that really affected me greatly was found in Deuteronomy,
but I prefer the passage in Exodus where it shows God repented of stated harm because of
Moses prayer. Ex 32:9-14 And the LORD said to Moses, I have seen this people, and
indeed it is a stiff-necked people! 10 Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may
burn hot against them and I may consume them. And I will make of you a great nation.
11 Then Moses pleaded with the LORD his God, and said: LORD, why does Your wrath
burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great
power and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, He
brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from
the face of the earth? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and repent from this harm to Your
people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by
Your own self, and said to them, I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven;
and all this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it
forever. 14 So the LORD repented from the harm which He said He would do to His
people.
From this and many other passages with that Hebrew word relating to God, I have drawn
this conclusion. If God was outside of time and saw the future actions of men, God could
never be wrong about predictions. As you stated, I also believe: If the future actions of
men are unknowable because they have not been decided, our all knowing God would not
know them. None of them actually exist, so there is nothing to know.

God always exists in time. But, time is no restraint to Him like it is to us. We need to rest
at times. But He doesnt. We are growing old. He is always the same it that attribute.
Most of us have deadlines to keep and other time responsibilities that are measured by
time. With God, time is no burden. I see time as the measure between two events. Since
God can control every event, if He so desires, time is never a burden to Him at all. He
created the universe. We havent even seen the farthest galaxy in this tremendous
universe. When god created it, it seems like it was instantaneous. Therefore, I agree with
you. Read some of my articles on our site. I do not believe the future exists.
In Christ,
Bob
Question: Are there a limited number of people called in I Cor 1:26?
Dear Bob:
I hope you don't mind a question from me. I try to respect your time and not bother you
with lots of questions.
It's 1 Corinthians 1:26:
"For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many
mighty, not many noble, are called."
Obviously, my question is that it, at first glance, appears to be describing the limited
number of those who are called.
My view of pre-destination and God's foreknowledge is exactly like yours. So this is not
a question to challenge you, only to answer this verse's meaning in the light of our shared
theology.
I believe I know the answer, but my answer might be light. Here is my response:
God does not discriminate. He doesn't pick people based on being wise or mighty or
noble. And in addition, biblical translators are highly Calvinistic. The italics on "are
called" mean that these words do not appear in the original but were inserted afterwards
by the translators. Without the "are called," the verse reinforces my first sentence in this
paragraph, that is, that God does not discriminate based on earthly traits such as might or
nobility.
Am I on track here? My only hesitation with my explanation is that, WE often use the
added, italicize words, therefore, obviously many places they do help the translation and,
perhaps, help explain idioms that we might not otherwise understand. So I hesitate to
second-guess the translators. But at the same time, I know from studying under you that
the translators are highly Calvinistic so I don't put anything past them. But ALSO, the
verse does begin with "For you see your CALLING," so "calling" is certainly the subject
of the sentence or at least an important part of it.
With me, you don't have to go into the "God calls everyone" and 1 Peter 1:9 because I
fully agree that God calls everybody. I'm only stuck on the last part of 1 Corinthians 1:26
in the light of God's calling for everybody.
Thanks so much!
Answer: (click here to see the answer)

Greg,
I would translate the passage this way: For you see your calling, brethren, that not many
wise according to the flesh, not many, not many mighty, not many noble. But there
seems to be an ellipsis. What about their calling? As you already stated, all are called.
Lets look at Mat 22:14: For many are called [a predicate adjective, not a verb], but few
elect [another predicate adjective, not a verb]. Literally, many are called [ones] but few
are elect [ones]. Now, the context of this passage shows that the called are not the elect,
because they do not respond to the calling in an appropriate manner. Mat 22:2-14: The
kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent
out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing
to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, Tell those who are invited, See, I
have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready.
Come to the wedding. 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own
farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully,
and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his
armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then he said to his
servants, The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore
go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding. 10 So those
servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad
and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 But when the king came in to
see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said
to him, Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment? And he was
speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, take him
away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.14
For many are called [ones], but few are elect [ones].
Similar to the Matthew account, For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise
according to the flesh, not many, not many mighty, not many noble [my supply of the
ellipsis (responded to the calling and are elect].
Not only Called, but Elect in Christ,
Bob Hill
Question: God in time?
Bob,
Is God a slave to time or can God truly see the future? my future? does the future exist?
the bible tends to take a lets see attitude by God. which means he cannot see the future
and is a slave to His own creation of time or that he chooses not to see the future. one of
my references is when God allows the testing of Job, where God says he would see what
Job would do which means that He didnt know. can you help me please with scripture on
this matter, because i believe God is all poweful and not limited to anything and can see
the future. the bible seems to indicate that he cant. i'm getting heartburn over this.
in his love,
Keven

Answer: (click here to see the answer)

Keven,
The Scriptures say that God changes His mind, answers prayer and repents. Many
Christians dont sympathize with Calvinism at all but believe that a solution to the
problem of Gods repentance in over twenty passages in the Bible is found in what Paul
Tillich borrowed from Greek philosophy: The eternal now, that God is not in time. I
have been studying this topic for 40 years and have not found one place that says God is
outside of time or even alludes to that idea. Instead, the Bible shows God working with us
in time.
There are 2 passages in the Bible that say before time began. They are 2 Ti 1:9, who
has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according
to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
and Tit 1:2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time
began. However, when we look at the Greek, it literally says before age times (pro
cronwn aiwniwn GraecaII font). The word cronwn (In these transliterations, the ws stand
for the Greek omega.) means times. The word aiwniwn is an adjective similar to the noun
aiwn (age). It can be translated many ways, but as the adjective it is translated, eternal,
age abiding or age, as in age times. Eternals wouldnt make any sense.
The liberal philosophical theologian, Tillich, did not make this statement originally, it
was Plato. Plato was the one that influenced Augustine the most through another
philosopher, Plotinus. I think Augustine, who lived from 354-430 AD, was the most
influential theologian who ever lived. Most scholars in the ancient world of Augustine
understood Platos concept of God. He had influenced almost all the schools of
philosophy of that time.
Plato explained Gods immutability this way in, A dialogue between Socrates and
Adeimantus. Is it not true that to be altered and moved by something else happens least
to things that are in the best condition . . . that those which are well made and in good
condition are least liable to be changed by time and other influences. . . . It is universally
true then, that that which is in the best state by nature or art or both admits least alteration
by something else. . . . But God, surely and everything that belongs to God is in every
way in the best possible state. . . . Then does he (God) change himself for the better and
to something fairer, or for the worse and to something uglier than himself? It must
necessarily . . . be for the worse if he is changed . . . the gods themselves are incapable of
change. . . . Then God is altogether simple and true in deed and word, and neither
changes himself. (Plato. Republic, Loeb Classical Library, pp. 191-197.)
The Neo-Platonist, Plotinus (about 205-269), lived about 150 years before Augustine. He
was very influential upon Augustine. The concept of God being in the state of Eternal
Now (Atemporal), or being outside of time, was received from Plato through Plotinus.
Lets examine the parallel thoughts of Plotinus and Augustine. Well see Augustine was
greatly influenced by the thoughts of Plotinus.
Plotinus

seeing all this one sees eternity in seeing a life that abides in the same, and always has
the all present to it, not now this, and then again that, but all things at once, and not now
some things, and then again others, but a partless completion . . . Necessarily there will
be no was about it, for what is there that was for it and has passed away? Nor any will
be, for what will be for it? So there remains for it only to be in its being just what it is.
That, then, which was not, and will not be, but is only, which has being which is static by
not changing to the will be, nor ever having changed, this is eternity. (Plotinus,
Ennead, The Loeb Classical Library, p. 305.)
Augustine
so that of those things which emerge in time, the future indeed, are not yet, and the
present are now, and the past no longer are; but all of these are by Him comprehended in
His stable and eternal presence . . . but beholds all things with absolute
unchangeableness (The City of God, p. 364). Augustine believed that God exists in an
eternal present in which the future and the past are comprehended as existing now.
Plotinus said the eternal does not have a was (past) or a will be(future) but only an
is(present). Since God exists in an eternal state the past, present and future are viewed
as existing in that present state at the same time as the present.
Augustine allowed reason to first dictate his ideas about Gods attributes. Then, the
details were to be filled by Scriptures. The most damaging presupposition, which has
severely harmed Christianity, was the immutability of God. That He was unchangeable
and outside of time. This idea of timelessness and immutability influenced his doctrines
of impassibility, predestination and foreknowledge.
Later, these doctrines were absorbed by Calvin. This influence of Augustine over Calvin
is attested by Calvinists. For example, Benjamin Warfield wrote, The system of doctrine
taught by Calvin is just the Augustinianism common to the whole body of the Reformers
for the Reformation was, as from the spiritual point of view a great revival of
Augustinianism. (Warfield, Benjamin. Calvin and Augustine, The Presbyterian and
Reformed Publishing Co., 1956, p.22)
Even though the Old Testament literally shows a mutable, changeable God, Augustine
agreed with the group he was in for a number of years, the Manicheans, that a mutable
God was totally unacceptable. In this conflict between the Platonic doctrine of
immutability and the literal interpretation of Scriptures what had to change? Augustines
answer was that the literal interpretation of Scripture had to change. For Augustine the
plain narratives of Scripture had to be reinterpreted by spiritual or allegorical methods.
The Manicheans knew the Old Testament revealed a God who was mutable or could
repent, and they rejected it. Since the Platonists believed that God was immutable this
idea of God was a source of ridicule for the Catholic Church. Augustine was so
embarrassed by these arguments that he chose to reinterpret Scripture rather than depart
from Platonic philosophy.
But the Bible shows us that God always presents Himself as being in time. The passages
that show this the best are those that God says He repents, or changes.

First, repent is used when people change their minds or repent.

Ex 13:17 Then it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God did not lead
them by way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest
perhaps the people change their minds repent (they repent) when they see war, and return
to Egypt.
Job 42:1-6 Then Job answered the LORD and said: 2 I know that You can do everything,
and that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You. 3 You asked, Who is this who
hides counsel without knowledge? Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. 4 Listen, please, and let me speak;
You said, I will question you, and you shall answer Me. 5 I have heard of You by the
hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You. 6 Therefore I abhor myself, and repent (I
repent) in dust and ashes.
Sometimes people do not repent
Jer 8:6 I listened and heard, But they do not speak aright. No man repented (!j;nI vyai) of
his wickedness, saying, What have I done? Everyone turned to his own course, as the
horse rushes into the battle.
Now we will see a number of passages that show God repents.
Gen 6:4-7 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons
of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the
mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness
of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only
evil continually. 6 And the LORD was sorry (Wayinaachem Yahweh, Jehovah repented)
that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the LORD
said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and
beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry (nichamtiy, it repenteth me, I
repent) that I have made them.
1 Sa 15:11,24-29,35 I repent that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from
following Me, and has not performed My commandments. And it grieved Samuel, and he
cried out to the LORD all night. 24 Then Saul said to Samuel, I have sinned, for I have
transgressed the commandment of the Lord and your words, because I feared the people
and obeyed their voice. 25 Now therefore, please pardon my sin, and return with me,
that I may worship the Lord. 26 But Samuel said to Saul, I will not return with you, for
you have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you from being king
over Israel. 27 And as Samuel turned around to go away, Saul seized the edge of his
robe, and it tore. 28 So Samuel said to him, The Lord has torn the kingdom of Israel
from you today, and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you. 29 And
also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent (in this case of taking the kingdom from
Saul). For He is not a man, that He should repent. 35 And Samuel went no more to see
Saul until the day of his death. Nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul, and the LORD
repented that He had made Saul king over Israel.
God repents of disaster or good

Jer 18:1-12 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 Arise and go
down to the potters house, and there I will cause you to hear My words. 3 Then I went
down to the potters house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the
vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into
another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make. 5 Then the word of the LORD
came to me, saying: 6 O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter? says the
LORD. Look, as the clay is in the potters hand, so are you in My hand, O house of
Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up,
to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from
its evil, I will repent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I
speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it
does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will repent concerning the
good with which I said I would benefit it. 11 Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah
and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus says the LORD: Behold, I am
fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil
way, and make your ways and your doings good. 12 And they said, That is hopeless!
So we will walk according to our own plans, and we will every one obey the dictates of
his evil heart.
God repented of stated harm because of Moses prayer
Ex 32:9-14 And the LORD said to Moses, I have seen this people, and indeed it is a
stiff-necked people! 10 Now therefore, let Me alone, that My wrath may burn hot against
them and I may consume them. And I will make of you a great nation. 11 Then Moses
pleaded with the LORD his God, and said: LORD, why does Your wrath burn hot
against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power
and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, He brought them
out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of
the earth? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and repent from this harm to Your people. 13
Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own
self, and said to them, I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all
this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it
forever. 14 So the LORD repented from the harm which He said He would do to His
people.
If God was outside of time and saw the future actions of men, God could not ever be
wrong. If the future actions of men are unknowable because they have not been decided,
our all knowing God would not know them. They dont exist. there is nothing to know.
God always exists in time. So what? Time is no restraint to Him like it is to us. We need
to sleep some time. He doesnt. We grow old. He doesnt. Most of us have clocks to
punch, deadlines to keep and other time oriented responsibilities. He doesnt. Time is no
burden to God. Time is just the distance between 2 events. Since God could control every
event, time is no burden to Him at all. He created this whole universe. We havent even
discovered the end of the universe. How long did He take to create it? It seems like it was

instantaneous. Wow, what a God. Dont worry about time having any effect on Him. God
is in control.
Safe in the God of time,
Bob Hill
Question: How do we reconcile Acts 13:48 with Open Theology?
Pastor Bob,
In Acts, Luke writes that all who were appointed to eternal life believed(Acts 13:48).
How do we reconcile that with Open theology?
In Service for the Master,
Wesley
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Wesley,
Thats one of the most important passages to deal with. Here is the context of the verse:
Acts 13:45-48 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and
contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul
and Barnabas grew bold and said, It was necessary that the word of God should be
spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting
life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us: I have set
you as a light to the Gentiles, that you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.
48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord.
And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
I want to re-translate Acts 13:48: Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and
glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed disposed themselves
(h\san tetagmevnoi) to eternal life believed.
It is hard to read Acts 13:48 as a verse for predestination in the context of the thirteenth
chapter. Luke is describing the dramatic events at Antioch which center around the
rejection of the gospel by the Jews (45) and the acceptance of it by the Gentiles (46-48),
The point of the passage is to castigate the Jews for rejecting Christ and praise Gentiles
for accepting Him. For Luke to slip in a predestinarian commentary on this scene would
work against the mood he is trying to create. Oh, thats why the Jews rejected the gospel
and the Gentiles accepted it. They were predestined to do so. It really wasnt their fault.
Thats the kind of conclusion we could make from that kind of interpretation. But Luke
was trying to fault the Jews. That would work against his purpose for writing about this
event.
We read in Acts 13:48, And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. The
phrase, had been appointed, is the Greek periphrastic pluperfect (h\san tetagmevnoi).
This can be either middle or passive in meaning since perfect participles only have one
form to express the passive and the middle (reflexive) meaning. I think it has a middle
meaning here. When we see the word used in the aorist, which has different forms for the
middle and passive, its normal use seems to be in the middle. Acts 28:23 looks as though
it would be active when you read the New King James translation, but when we look at

the Greek, its a middle. Also, in 1 Corinthians 16:15, the word is active in the Greek, but
the meaning of the thought is definitely middle.
If we took the meaning of the clause in 1 Corinthians 16:15 and used it in Acts 13:48, we
would have, As many as had devoted themselves unto eternal life, believed. This verb,
had been appointed, or, had disposed themselves, from tavssw, can have a number of
meanings. Bauers second American edition and Moulton and Milligan give the following
meanings: to classify, place or station something in a fixed spot, appoint to or establish in
an office, to put someone in charge, assign, be classed among those possessing, devote,
order, fix, determine, allot, pay, tell, arrange, or agree. I think dispose fits just fine in the
ideas related by all these words.
What word fits in the context of Acts thirteen without forcing anything? From verse 46
we see that the Jews judged themselves unworthy of eternal life. The middle voice of the
verb is not used here, but this is a reflexive, or in Greek, a middle voice idea. The
statement were dealing with is the corresponding statement about the believers. They
had devoted themselves, disposed themselves, arranged themselves, or classified
themselves unto eternal life. Certainly, ordained, of the King James Version, is too strong.
There is no reason to consider this a passive with the context of the previous middle
(reflexive) concept of verse 46. Therefore, this portion should be translated, As many as
had disposed themselves to eternal life, believed.
Theologically speaking, no one would seek God. But since Christ enlightens everyone
coming into the world (John 1:9), and counsels that everyone has room for repentance (2
Pe 3:9), a positive response to the gospel sets powerful forces in motion. The Holy Spirit
continues to draw the person to Himself. A chain reaction is set in motion. As the person
continues to yield (in contrast to those like the Jews of Luke 7:30), the Holy Spirit draws
more powerfully. The person could always back out at this point, but God is on the move
on the person. Therefore, since the word was being preached, their response in faith
includes an active yielding. Thus, the interpretation of the entire passage yields a
theologically middle concept. God is at work too. This passage fits the Open View of God
Theology without sacrificing the context, grammar, or language. This respects both
context and language. Context is always the most important thing to consider when
interpreting a small portion of Scripture.
In Christ,
Bob
Question: How do you handle the verses on "the foundation of the world"?
Dear Bob,
How do you handle the verses on "the foundation of the world"?
I would prefer an answer that sticks to the KJV text and xrefs.
I believe in open theism and try to show it to others.
Thanks,
Jack McElroy
Answer: (click here to see the answer)

Dear Jack,
The Greek word katabolhv, foundation, may have two different meanings. Many gap
theorists believe it means, the overthrow of the world. Most other theologians believe it
means foundation/establishment. The gap theorists believe the noun comes from the verb
katabavllw. I certainly agree that is true, but I am presently reevaluating my position on
the idea of the Gap Theory. katabavllw is defined by B G D [I edited this.] A GreekEnglish Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. Chicago:
University of Chicago Press, 1979, as follows: throw down, strike down tinav someone,
pass. kataballovmenoi ajll oujk ajpolluvmenoi struck down, but not destroyed, 2 Co
4:9. 2. mid. found, lay (a foundation) qemevlion.
2 Sa 20:15 Then they came and besieged him in Abel of Beth Maachah; and they cast up
a siege mound against the city, and it stood by the rampart. And all the people who were
with Joab battered the wall [katabalei`n] to throw it down.
The Bible seems to have two spans of time that are contrasted. They relate to the
foundation of the world. God was active before the foundation of the world and after the
foundation of the world.
First, I want to group all the passages that refer to the foundation of the world into two
groups.
Before the Foundation:
John 17:24 Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I
am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before
the foundation of the world.
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be
holy and without blame before Him in love.
1 Pet 1:20 He indeed was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was
manifest in these last times for you
From the Foundation:
Mat 13:35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: I will open
My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you blessed of My
Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Lk 11:50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the
world may be required of this generation,
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I swore in My
wrath, They shall not enter My rest, although the works were finished from the
foundation of the world.
Heb 9:26 He then would have had to suffer often from the foundation of the world; but
now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of
Himself.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been
written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless
pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are
not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast
that was, and is not, and yet is.
All the actions that happened before the foundation of the world were related to Christ
His glory, the election of His body to holiness and blamelessness, and the contingency
plan for the lamb of God to be given when sin happened.
John 17:24 Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I
am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before
the foundation of the world.
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be
holy and without blame before Him in love,
1 Pe 1:20 He indeed was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but was manifest
in these last times for you
From the Foundation:
Mat 13:35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: I will open
My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Luk 11:50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the
world may be required of this generation,
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I swore in My
wrath, They shall not enter My rest, although the works were finished from the
foundation of the world.
Heb 9:26 He then would have had to suffer often from the foundation of the world; but
now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of
Himself.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been
written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless
pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are
not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast
that was, and is not, and yet is.
Things that are spoken about that occur from the foundation of the world do not pertain to
the body of Christ. They pertain to the Israelitish kingdom promised to David, with its
promises, secrets and works.
Mat 13:33-35 Another parable He spoke to them: The kingdom of heaven is like leaven,
which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened.34 All
these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not
speak to them, 35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: I
will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the
world.

Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, Come, you blessed of My
Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I swore in My
wrath, They shall not enter My rest, although the works were finished from the
foundation of the world.
Another use of the phrase [b]from the foundation[/b] of the world relates to time. We
have three references that fit into this concept.
Heb 9:26 shows that Christ would have been a frequent sufferer. The 25th verse shows
that: not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy
Place every year with blood of another, then Heb 9:26, He then would have had to
suffer often from the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He
has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Therefore, [b]from the
foundation[/b] emphasized how often it would happen.
On the other hand, two verses in Revelation show that something never happened. i.e.
Their names were never written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been
written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless
pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are
not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast
that was, and is not, and yet is.
These verses show that some people never had their names written in the book of life. In
order to have their names written, they would have to believe in the gospel that God told
them. These people never believed.
Another thing about these verses in Revelation must be observed. Both of these
prepositional phrases, from the foundation of the world, modify when the names were
not written in the Book of Life. Many have never believed. Because they never believed,
their names were never written in the Book of Life. Some had their names written in the
Book of Life. If they did not overcome, some were threatened with having their names
blotted out: Rev 3:5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will
not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My
Father and before His angels.
I hope this answers your question. If it doesnt, please ask a more specific question.
In Christ,
Bob
Question: How can man not be predestioned?
Bob,
how can man not be predestioned? We have the fall of man where man only knows evil
and we come to the knowledge of good through the law(Romans 3:20) So how do men
come to know good when all they know is evil? Another question I have is how do you
plan the ends and not the means? To me to be predestioned is so meaningful because I

now can pray and teach with authority, all while I'm knowing I am Jesus Christs beloved
and nothing I do can stop the plan that God has for me. So I guess my next question is
who can a powerless man stop what God wants.
Thanks for your time.
Wade
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Wade,
Man comes to know God by God's word. It has been written in the heart of everyone.
Rom 2:14-16 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the
law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work
of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between
themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will
judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
It has been proclaimed by His handiwork. Rom 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed
from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth
in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God
has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and
Godhead, so that they are without excuse.
The stars have been God's witness. Psa 19:1-6 The heavens declare the glory of God; And
the firmament shows His handiwork. 2 Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night
reveals knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language Where their voice is not heard. 4
Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world. In
them He has set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his
chamber, And rejoices like a strong man to run its race. 6 Its rising is from one end of
heaven, And its circuit to the other end; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.
The gospel has been preached to the whole world. Col 1:5,6,23 because of the hope
which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of
the gospel, 6which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth
fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away
from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature
under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
God has enlightened everyone coming into the world. John 1:9 That was the true Light
which gives light to every man coming into the world. God has made room for
repentance for everyone. 2 Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some
count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not counseling any to perish but all to
have room for repentance. Check the Greek text on this one.
Question: God predestinated us because "God is God"...
Bob,

Don't get me wrong, I believe God predestined us, I've studied this issue and I could
preach on it. The Bible says so. Sure the Bible says for US to do things (free will) but in
return that all goes back to God. Humanity today is changing God's gospel into man's
gospel, free will for example...we accept God, we do this and that, WE. It's a miricle
FROM GOD that HE accepts us and saves us, etc, Why? I'll sum it up in 3 words... God
is God. We're turning God into a little god and that's wrong if not sin. God can do
anything he wants and he knows everything. God is God. Just think about that and you
could expand forever. And all the "free will" passages, well, just think that all of that goes
back in return to God because He is God and it's HIS will. If you would like me to email
you about my belief on OUR will to go to hell, i'll be glad too. Bob, i'm only 16, no one
told me about predestination, I found about predestination through studying, and I believe
God is telling me I'm right. I feel it. I know it. I'm confident. I'm not saying i'm
EXACTLY right but I'm pretty sure I've hit the nail on the head. Email me back.
Thanks,
Chad
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Chad,
Im happy to see that you are studying the word of God. You are exactly right when you
say God is God. We certainly dont want to demean Him in any way. We want to
glorify Him and exalt Him in every way we can. Thats why I think we should let Him
and His word speak for itself rather than Greek philosophers or theologians. His word
shows us that He wills all to be saved, and He has made room in everyone for repentance.
To begin, I want to put a statement into perspective that you wrote in your email. What
does it mean when you say God knows everything? Do you mean that He knows
everything that has happened or is happening? Does it mean He knows future events as
sure as He knows past events? Is Gods knowledge of all future events substantiated by
Gods word? When you talk about God and His knowledge, you must remember 1 Jo
3:20. It says, For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all
things. That statement seems to mean God knows everything that is known. Beyond
that, Psa 147:5 says Great is our Lord, and mighty in power; His understanding is [NKJ
says infinite, but check the Hebrew word and see how it is used in the Bible.]
immeasurable. So when the Bible says God knows all things, does that mean He knows
all the futurethings that havent happened? The Bible doesnt say that, so where do you
get that?
If God knows every detail of the futurethen it could not change, that is, be different
from the way He knows it. Why is that? The God of Christian theology from the time of
Augustine is supposed to see all time as though it is present and, therefore, it would
always be as He saw it. If it cannot be any different from the way He knows it, then every
event must happen exactly the way God knows it. If the Bible showed that, I would be
the first one to agree. But the Bible doesnt show that.

Determinists, from the time of Augustine, including Calvin, say God determined all
things and knows them because He determined them. But if man has any free agency, or
can make any choices not totally predetermined by God, then, those future free acts of
this biblical God would be unknowable. Man would not, really, have any free choices if
the God of the Bible was like the Augustinian/Calvinist God. However, the Bible doesnt
say anywhere, that God knows all of the future, or God doesnt know the future, but it
does show that when He does declare the future He causes it to happen.
God explains that principle in Isaiah 46:9-11 Remember the former things of old, For I
am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, 10 declaring the end
from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, My
counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure, 11 Calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also
bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.
However, there is much biblical evidence which shows that God does not know the future
choices of free agents. If God knows all future events, then how could something like the
event recorded in Genesis 22 take place? After God told Abraham to take his son to a
certain place and sacrifice him, Gen 22:12,15-17 reports this: And He said, Do not lay
your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you
have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me. 15 Then the Angel of the LORD
called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: By Myself I have sworn,
says the LORD, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your
only son; 17 blessing I will bless you, etc.
Another problem for those who think God knows and has known the whole future is the
Hebrew word, perhaps (pronounced ou-laiy ). This word is used to show the
probable/improbable happenings that man may experience. I found 38 places where it
was used concerning man. Ill use the first one as an example. This is found in Gen 16:2
So Sarai said to Abram, See now, the Lord has restrained me from bearing (children).
Please, go in to my maid; perhaps I shall obtain children by her. And Abram heeded the
voice of Sarai. You can see the uncertainty implied in the use of this word. A
concordance shows this usage: Gen 16:2, 18:24, 18:28-32; 24:5; 27:12; 32:21; 43:12; Ex
32:30; Num 2:6,11,33; 23:3,27; Josh 9:7; 14:12; 1 Sa 6:5; 9:6; 14:6,15; 2 Sa 16:12; 1 Ki
18:5,27; 2 KI 19:4; 24:15; Job 1:5; Isa 37:4; 47:12; Jer 20:10; 21:2; 36:7; 51:8; Lam 3:29;
Dan 8:2,16; Hos 8:7; Am 5:15; Jon 1:6; Zep 2:3; Zec 11:15.
I was amazed when I found this word used by God almighty a number of times. Look at
these Scripture passages where perhaps is used by God. Jer 26:1-3 In the beginning of the
reign of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, this word came from the LORD,
saying, 2 Thus says the LORD: Stand in the court of the Lords house, and speak to all
the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the Lords house, all the words that I
command you to speak to them. Do not diminish a word. 3 Perhaps everyone will listen
and turn from his evil way, that I may repent concerning the calamity which I purpose to
bring on them because of the evil of their doings.

Jer 36:1-3 Now it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of
Judah, that this word came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 Take a scroll of a
book and write on it all the words that I have spoken to you against Israel, against Judah,
and against all the nations, from the day I spoke to you, from the days of Josiah even to
this day. 3 It may be (Perhaps) that the house of Judah will hear all the adversities which I
purpose to bring upon them, that everyone may turn from his evil way, that I may forgive
their iniquity and their sin.
Eze 12:1-3 Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 2 Son of man, you dwell in
the midst of a rebellious house, which has eyes to see but does not see, and ears to hear
but does not hear; for they are a rebellious house. 3 Therefore, son of man, prepare your
belongings for captivity, and go into captivity by day in their sight. You shall go from
your place into captivity to another place in their sight. It may be (Perhaps) that they will
consider, though they are a rebellious house.
The next thing we have to look at is even more surprising. If you have been listening to
theologians who have been influenced more by philosophy than the Scriptures in the
formation of their view of God, you may even have an emotional reaction, because, God
says some things will happen, and they do not. In Jer 3:6,7, Jeremiah is relating what the
Lord said to him. The LORD said also to me in the days of Josiah the king: Have you
seen what backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and
under every green tree, and there played the harlot. 7 And I said, after she had done all
these things, She will return to Me But she did not return. And her treacherous sister
Judah saw it.
Further, because man has free will, he is not trustworthy. God had great expectations for
Israel, but because of their sin, God agonizes over His chosen. God expected Israel to
respond differently to His love. But they didnt. Isa 5:1-4 starts out with Isaiah singing to
God, Now let me sing to my Well-beloved A song of my Beloved regarding His
vineyard: My Well-beloved has a vineyard On a very fruitful hill. 2 He dug it up and
cleared out its stones, And planted it with the choicest vine. He built a tower in its midst,
And also made a winepress in it; So He expected it to bring forth good grapes, But it
brought forth wild grapes. 3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah,
Judge, please, between Me and My vineyard. 4 What more could have been done to My
vineyard That I have not done in it? Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good
grapes, Did it bring forth wild grapes? If God were the God that Calvinists describe, He
could have forced them to believe. But He didnt.
We must realize that God responds to the inconsistency and unreliability of mans
actions, because the future actions of free agents are unknowable. This is displayed in Ex
13:17. Then it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God did not lead
them by way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest the
people change their minds when they see war, and return to Egypt.
Question: I believe that it is God's will that we go to Heaven... however it's our free will
to go to hell...?

Here's my argument
"I believe that it is God's will that we go to Heaven because he predestined us through his
will, however I believe that it's our free will to go to hell because we chose to fall into
Satan's sin, through grace though, God chose us."
Do you think i'm on the right track?
Chad
Answer: (click here to see the answer)
Dear Mike,
The Bible does not say that god predestined us to go to heaven. Here is a complete
concordance of the word predestinate with the Greek [The font is Logos Greek.] of the
specific passage:
Acts 4:25-28 who by the mouth of Your servant David have said: Why did the nations
rage, and the people plot vain things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand, and the
rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against His Christ. 27 For truly against
Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the
Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 to do whatever Your hand
and Your purpose determined before to be done. Acts 4:28 poih'sai osa hJ ceivr sou kaiV
hJ boulhv sou prowvrise genevsqai
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to
those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also
predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn
among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom
He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. Rom
8:29 oti ou}" proevgnw kaiV prowvrise summovrfou" th'" eijkovno" tou' uiJou' aujtou'
eij" toV ei\nai aujtoVn prwtovtokon ejn polloi'" ajdelfoi'" 30 ou}" deV prowvrise,
touvtou" kaiV ejkavlese kaiV ou}" ejkavlese touvtou" kaiV ejdikaivwsen ou}" deV
ejdikaivwse touvtou" kaiV ejdovxase. 1 Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a
mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 1 Co 2:7
ajllaV lalou'men sofivan qeou' ejn musthrivw/ thVn ajpokekrummevnhn, h}n prowvrisen
oJ qeoV" proV tw'n aijwvnwn eij" dovxan hJmw'n
Eph 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us
with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in
Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before
Him in love, Eph 1:4 kaqwV" ejxelevxato hJma'" ejn aujtw'/ proV katabolh'" kovsmou
ei\nai hJma'" aJgivou" kaiV ajmwvmou" katenwvpion aujtou' ejn ajgavph/ 5 proorivsa"
hJma'" eij" uiJoqesivan diaV jIhsou' Cristou' eij" aujtovn, kataV thVn eujdokivan tou'
qelhvmato" aujtou' 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to
Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His
grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption
through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which
He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us

the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all
things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also
we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who
works all things according to the counsel of His will, Eph 1:11 ejn w|/ kaiV
ejklhrwvqhmen proorisqevnte" kataV provqesin tou' taV pavnta ejnergou'nto" kataV
thVn boulhVn tou' qelhvmato" aujtou' 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to
the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy
Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the
purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.