MARK HALPERIN, BLOOMBERG TV HOST: Every performance needs

its reluctant hero, be it a Greek king of Ithaca, a pilot of the

Millennium Falcon or a congressman from the humble 1st District
of Wisconsin.
Joining us now, Paul Ryan, a man we've spoken to a couple
times in the past but never since he became Speaker of the
House.
Congratulations.
REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER:

Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: Dont think I have ever heard my name mentioned with
in the same sentence as pilot of the Millennium Falcon before so
this is a first.
(CROSSTALK)
HALPERIN:
RYAN:
that.

Are you looking forward to Star Wars?

I am, actually.

I'm a big fan.

HALPERIN: So I want to cover a

you, first with Guantanamo Bay. The
yet again and said Guantanamo should
prisoners should not be moved to the

I grew up like

lot of policy stuff with

coequal branch has spoken
not be closed, those
United States.

The administration is being a little bit vague about

whether the president might use executive action. You've been
critical of him of using his executive action on immigration and
some other things.
What is your message to the president and the White House,
the administration about whether they should use executive
action?
RYAN: He cant. He doesnt have the authority to do it.
It's just that clear.
We passed the bill in the House with 390 votes, well over
enough to override a veto. The Senate today passed this bill
with 91 votes, well over what is necessary to override a veto.
And the language is very clear that it can't transfer the

prisoners. And this is language that was put in the defense

bill by Democrats when they ran Congress in the early part of
the Obama administration.
HALPERIN: So what would you say if the president said, Mr.
Speaker, I'm trying to fulfill a campaign promise?
(CROSSTALK)
RYAN:

The law is the law.

HALPERIN:

It's just that clear.

OK.

You have talked a

even before you became
worrying about tactics
policy. We cannot run

lot about the importance of policy and

speaker. You said we got to stop
and strategy and talk and be a party of
on vague platitudes.

So I want to ask you about some specifics and start with

something you've worked on at the Ways and Means in your career,
tax reform. I know you want to lower rates for corporate
individuals.
But what are the other big elements of whatever we have tax
reform that you would like to see if there's a Republican
president, Republican Congress, what are the big elements of
Paul Ryan tax reform?
RYAN: That's what -- well, it's -- it can't just be a Paul
Ryan tax reform. It has to be Republican tax reform by the
Republican Ways and Means Committee and the Senate Finance
Committee.
My good friend, Orrin Hatch, will be working on something.
The new chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, Kevin Brady,
will be working on a plan. But I do believe that we owe it to
the country to show them what it looks like, not just something
vague, which is we want everybody to have lower tax rates.
I believe we need to show the country what a new tax code
looks like. Do I have the answer of what that looks like right
now?
No, I have -(CROSSTALK)

HALPERIN: -- opinions about deductions, about other

elements of things you would like to see.
RYAN: Couple of things.
consensus on how to reform our
a system that is like the rest
bring money back from overseas

I think we are getting to

international tax code, to get to
of the world so that you can
without paying a big penalty.

A, I think we have -(CROSSTALK)

HALPERIN:

-- only as part of --

RYAN: I think -- no, I think if we could get that done

earlier, I think that would be a good idea.
I would love to see that done in 2016. I was working on
that while I was chair and I still think that that's something
that's in the cards, particularly given the big trend of
inversions that we see happening and corporate takeovers.
But what does tax reform look like?
It means lower rates, broader base. That means fewer
loopholes and deductions. And in Congress, we need to work
together to forge consensus on exactly what that looks like and
how we do that.
HALPERIN: So where are you now on some of the big
deductions, charitable, home mortgage? Where are you on those
two?
RYAN:

I'm not going to get into those details because I --

(CROSSTALK)
HALPERIN:

-- matters.

RYAN: I don't want to get ahead of the rest of my

colleagues. I want us to form a consensus on how to do this.
But am I going to sound like this in a year? No. I want us to
show the country what a new tax system looks like. That is
progrowth, that helps get people out of poverty, that creates
more job, faster economic growth, makes small businesses more
competitive with the rest of the world. And how we accomplish -

HALPERIN: So are you open to eliminating those deductions

or scaling them back?
RYAN:

I think everything should be on the table.

HALPERIN:

Flat tax on the table?

(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: Ever since my days as a young Ways and Means guy,
that has been my preference. But again, we need to have
consensus in our party and put something out there. And that's
what I plan on leading.
HALPERIN: One reason some citizens are distrustful of the
tax code is they think special interests get a lot of breaks,
right.
Where is Paul Ryan currently on the question of do special
interests lobbyists have too much influence in Washington?
What should be done about it?
RYAN:

Yes, I think they do.

HALPERIN:

What should be done about it?

(CROSSTALK)
RYAN:

-- bank was an example of too much influence.

And we should have gotten rid of it and we didn't.

that was -HALPERIN:

And

Well, what about just the --

(CROSSTALK)
HALPERIN: -- day-to-day, big corporations, unions have
powerful lobbyists who get appointments with important members
and get influence on legislation?
RYAN:

Sure.

HALPERIN:

What should be done about that?

RYAN: Here is what happens right now. People pay their

taxes at higher rates than we should have because we have so
many loopholes and interest group driven loopholes in the code.
And so what happens is, people send their money to Washington.
And then Washington will let you keep some more of your money if
you do what they approve of. That is what we have to get rid
of. That, to me, is what special interests have put in the tax
code. And by getting rid of loopholes, you are able to lower
tax rates for everybody across the board so people keep their
money in the first place and they decide what they want to do
with their money.
HALPERIN: So changing the tax code would go a long way
towards eliminating -RYAN:

Absolutely.

HALPERIN: Anything else you want to see done to limit the

influence of lobbyists?
RYAN: Let me say it this way. One of the best ways that
going after crony capitalism and going after influence peddling
in Washington is to restart the tax system, clean up the tax
code, reduce the power of the IRS and let people keep more of
their own hard-earned dollars and let them decide what they want
to do with it instead running through some deduction in
Washington.
HALPERIN:

We'll ask you one more time.

Anything else you want to do to limit that influence of

lobbyists besides the tax change -RYAN: Yes, shrink government. I mean, look, so long as
you have so much money and power concentrated in the federal
government, you will have money and power trying to influence
that. So by limiting government and returning it back to the
people in the states respectively to the states and the people,
I think you are actually doing a lot to reduce influence in
Washington.
HALPERIN: Back when you were working with Jack Kemp and
Bill Bennett, the conservative movement had a really high
priority, the voucher movement, allowing parents to take money
away from public schools that are failing, move them parochial
schools, private schools to try to bring competition.

Where is the voucher movement now in the conservative

movement?
RYAN: We are sitting here in the middle of Milwaukee,
Wisconsin, proof of concept, which is this, the school voucher
movement is an extremely well helping poor parents send their
kids to better schools.
Now as a federal, as a Speaker of the House, there is an
important issue here which is, should the federal government do
this?
I dont think that that's the role for the federal
government.
Do I think this is the role for the state governments and
local governments?
Absolutely.
So am I a passionate believer in school choice and school
vouchers?
Absolutely. But I think you have to respect different
roles of government at the federal versus state and local have.
And so putting that into that context, it's very important
I think that we do advocate for school choice.
HALPERIN: You have tried valiantly to stay out of the
presidential race.
RYAN:

And I'm going to continue --

(CROSSTALK)
RYAN:

-- interview.

HALPERIN: But I'm going to ask you about a policy thing.

You have some candidates saying -- in your party saying Social
Security and Medicare, they are fine. If anything, there should
be more money in them so they dont need reform.
You have long advocated fundamental reform of the
entitlement systems. That debate, within your party, what do
you say to the candidates who say Social Security, Medicare,
they do not need reform?

RYAN: Math is math. It does not lie. And if we do

nothing, then we are complicit with the bankruptcy of these
programs. Look, this isn't a Republican or a Democrat thing.
This is a math thing. When you have a pay-as-you-go system,
where we're going from 40 million retirees to about 77 million
retirees and fewer people following them in the workforce, these
programs are going bankrupt. And so you have to fix these
programs in order to preserve these programs. And if you do it
soon, act now, you can make sure that no change occurs to
anybody in or near retirement.
But that for those of us in the younger generation have new
programs that are solvent, that are there for us when we retire,
that we can actually count on.
Right now, the status quo is that these programs go
bankrupt. Our generation does not get the benefits being
promised. But we also pull the rug out from under seniors after
they've retired if we do nothing.
HALPERIN:
candidates?

So what's your message to your party's

(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: Be honest with the American people and the taxpayers
about what is happening with these programs and how we need to
act to shore them up so that the promise that people organize
their lives around who are already in or near retirement can be
kept if you reform these programs going forward.
So I am not going to pick among what candidate says this or
that. I'm just going to look at the math. Look at the
actuaries. Look at the trustees of Medicare and Social Security
who are telling us these really valuable programs are going
bankrupt and we better do something about it so that we do not
renege on the promise that has been made to our seniors.
HALPERIN: You need people in Janesville who are supporters
of Dr. Carson, Mr. Trump?
RYAN:

Sure.

HALPERIN:

Sure?

(INAUDIBLE) ask you and say is it OK for us to support

someone -- is it smart to support someone with no government

experience?
What do you say?
RYAN: No one's ever asked me that question. I think -- I
always tell people go with who your gut is, who your -- where
your heart tells you to go. Look, we have a great field of
candidates. And what I think is happening right now is the
action is on our side of the aisle. I think most observers -you're the best of them all -- I shouldn't have said that to the
other -- but you're the guy who knows this -HALPERIN:

You got to say what you think.

RYAN: So you -pretty well set. OK?

Hillary's got it.

I think -- I think the Democrat field is

Once Joe didn't run, it looks like

Our field is far from set.

HALPERIN: But are you indifferent between someone who has
never held elective office -- ?
RYAN:

I'm --

(CROSSTALK)
RYAN:

-- I'm neutral in this race.

(CROSSTALK)
HALPERIN:

-- on that point, leave the field aside.

Is it perfectly sensible to think that the party, someone

who has never held elected office could have their first -RYAN:

There's lots -- sure.

Absolutely. There are lots of different kinds of

experiences a person can bring to the table to show leadership.
You do not have to be elected in government as a governor or a
senator or a congressman to be an excellent president. So, yes,
I think that is exactly right.
But the point I would make is I think the action is on the
Republican side of the aisle. I think the energy is on our side

of the aisle. And we have great candidates putting ideas out

there. I love the fact that our candidates are putting out what
they're going to replace ObamaCare with, what their tax reform
plan is, specifics, ideas, solutions. That's great to see.
That's where the action is.
(CROSSTALK)
HALPERIN: Tell me a specific idea Dr. Carson has put
forward that you like.
RYAN: Well, I will not get into all these -- I'm not going
to get into any -(CROSSTALK)
HALPERIN:

-- name one you like?

RYAN: I saw him the other day talking about the flat tax,
I thought it sounded pretty interesting. So I think all of
these candidates have something to offer. But I'm not going to
weigh into who is better on what.
HALPERIN: Well, I did not ask you weigh in who's better; I
asked you to -(CROSSTALK)
HALPERIN:

-- but we're running out of time.

So I'm going to have to move on. Last question, you did

not want this job. You've been in it now a couple weeks.
How is it going?
RYAN: It's going great. Look, once you make a commitment,
you stick with your commitment. So the way I look at it, is if
I am in for a dime, I am in for a dollar. And I am taking it
with gusto, full steam ahead. And I did it under the
circumstances and conditions that I thought make it successful.
I'm doing it differently from the way John Boehner did it than
it was done. I've redesigned the position to a way that I think
it makes it a better fit for me and for our Republican
conference.
HALPERIN:
Wisconsin?

You know what they're calling you here in

RYAN:

What's that?

HALPERIN:

Speaker for life, Paul Ryan.

Mr. Speaker, thank you.

RYAN:

You bet.

Really good to see you.