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answer, this seems to leave very little room for rounding (e.g. a student typing in part of a value

from an intermediate step rather than directly referring to the cell would almost surely get the

answer wrong, depending on how his spreadsheet formats the intermediate values). Having the

answer be in millions would allow for a bit more leeway, while still making it very difficult to

"luck" into the right answer. Or, failing that, at least allowing for more than 1 dollar error (from

what I've seen in other courses, Coursera does have this ability -- I think it has the ability to

accept answers within a lower and upper bound)

In any case, I'll abide by what the course staff says.

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David P Burch 5 days ago

This is ONLY for entering the answer, certainly not for working an actual problem through to its

conclusion via intermediate steps. If your calculator or spreadsheet uses eight, ten or a hundred

decimal places then by all means please use them. Just enter the answer as directed in each

question as the instructions can change from question to question

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Venkatesh Natarajan 5 days ago

I understand that. My point is that even a slight round-off in these intermediate steps (which can

happen pretty easily if, say, you decide to type a value rather than actually insert the cell location

into the table), will cause the final answer to be wrong (even if you copy all of the digits in the

final answer the spreadsheet reports). You can argue that this is the student's own fault, but to me

it seems undesirable to make it that easy for a student to lose points even when he can do all the

steps right.

The other point I'd make is given that all the numbers given in the problem are in millions (e.g.

$7.2M, 50M), it's reasonable to ask whether that same formatting should apply to the answer.

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David P Burch 5 days ago

I'm sorry, what is your point. Who is telling you to round off on intermediate steps. Not in this

course that I know of. You are arguing something that is imaginary.

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Venkatesh Natarajan 5 days ago

Even one penny of error in 1867 will result in several dollars of error today, at 7% interest. Even

half a penny. My point is, even if a student probably shouldn't round off, I doubt the staff

intended the grading to be that sensitive to it.

And, every other number in this problem is expressed in millions of dollars (the "unit" is thus,

for those two mentions, "millions of dollars"), and the question prompt does not explicitly state

that the answer should be given in dollars (as opposed to millions of dollars). It's thus not

obvious which unit the question is asking for.

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David P Burch 5 days ago

I do not see any ambiguity here. Nice round numbers. No penneys involved

1- $7,200,000.00 - given

2- $50,000,000.00 - given

3 - 3.00% - given

4 - 7.00% - given

Everything calculates from this set of numbers. The tricky part is make sure you have the correct

number of periods and when things happen. Only the answer needs to round off decimals.

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A comment was deleted.

Hello David

Is it a perpetuity since tax revenues will be levied continually. In case yes I calculate C =

50000000 / (1.03)^144 It was 708613.87 then I calculated PV = c/(r-g) then this amount should

be discounted by dividing on 1.07 and subtracted from 7.2 M i got the amount of 9.3M

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Muhammad Suleman Mahmood 1 day ago

Hello Robert, I used perpetuity formula and got a answer of ~10.5M. I also calculated but

restricting the cash flows till 2012 and got an answer of ~10.44M. Which one do you think

should be submitted.

Regards Suleman

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Robert Rassam (Student) 1 day ago

Dear Muhammad, I think it is a perpetuity since tax revenues are always collected then you

should choose 10.5. but I am not very sure !

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I used perpetuity and that is the right answer. This was the only thing that confused me about this

one. Thanks

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Anthony Nguyen 5 days ago

This is the question I received for Assignment 3, Question 6:

"(10 points) The United States purchased Alaska in 1867 for $7.2M (where M stands for

million). Assume that federal tax revenue from the state of Alaska (net federal expenditures) will

be $50M in 2012 and that tax revenue started in 1868 and has steadily increased by 3% annually

since then. Assume that the cost of capital (or interest rate) is 7%. What is the NPV of the Alaska

purchase? (Hint: Try and imagine you are in 1867 looking forward.)(Enter just the number

without the $ sign or a comma; round off decimals.)"

I already submitted my first attempt, and my answer was marked incorrect. I want to identify

what I did wrong and, also, rework the problem so that I can submit my second attempt.

I actually calculated this two ways and obtained the exact same results: ~$10.4M. (I hope that,

since my answer is incorrect, and since I rounded, this doesn't go against the Honor Code!)

My first method was to built manually calculate the NPV on 146 (counting Year 0) Excel rows. I

listed the years, tax revenue (discounted by 3%), and the PV (relative to Year 0) for each cash

flow. Summing the PV column, I obtain the ~$10.4M result.

My second method was to actually use the "annuity with growth" formula discussed in Question

7. First, I discounted the tax revenue of $50M to 1868 (and I confirmed that this matched my

calculations from my first method). I plug in all of the appropriate values into the "annuity with

growth" formula to obtain a PV (relative to Year 0) of $17.6M. I subtract off the purchase price

of $7.2M and, once again, obtain $10.4M.

Anyone have insight into what I am doing wrong?

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Comments

Remember, the question is asking for NPV from the point of view of 2012.

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Venkatesh Natarajan 5 days ago

In other words, the answer should be in 2012 dollars as opposed to 1867 dollars.

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Did you get the correct answer for this then?

The problem that I received specifically says "try and imagine you are in 1867 looking forward."

Wouldn't this imply that NPV is relative to Year 0?

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Venkatesh Natarajan 5 days ago

I am afraid to submit (there are also other questions that to me have some ambiguity).

In any case, that was just a hint to help show how to approach the problem. I assume NPV means

NPV in the present day. I guess technically that means 2013, but presumably this question was

also asked in the previous run and then it was 2012, and I doubt that they have gone back and

adjusted the answer. (Also, 2012 is mentioned as when tax revenue was 50M)

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Anthony Nguyen 5 days ago

Personally, I disagree. NPV is a present value calculation. Despite the word "present" in its

name, the result should be relative to Year 0. That said, obviously I got this question wrong.

Does the staff and/or TA have any insight?

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Anonymous 5 days ago

We are being urged to look from the point of view of being in 1867. Please confirm if you got the

answer.

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Venkatesh Natarajan 4 days ago

Well, looks like I'm not right either (at least, my answer was marked wrong, and I entered the

entire dollar amount (i.e. not in millions)). I'd try doing it in 1867 dollars, but I'd just get the

same answer as everyone else put in, so that seems futile.

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DEVULAPALLI SAMPAT KUMAR 4 hours ago

Hi Anthony,

Your value is for 1867. Calculate value as of today, i.e., FV with respect to 1867. You will get it

right.

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Anonymous 5 days ago

I am getting the same ~10.4M as my answer. I have tried the problem several times but still get

the same answer.

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Anonymous 5 days ago

I also resulted to 10.4 but as you marked wrong. Regardless if the question still exists on 2nd

attempt, would appreciate any advice from those that succeeded in this, just to understand my

mistake.

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Gbor Liptk 5 days ago

I also got the 10.4M answer (relative to 1867), and it was marked wrong ... As per above, one

might have to assume that the answer has to be relative to 2012.

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David P Burch 4 days ago

I too was incorrect at the full amount of digits in the 10.4 range. The hint of drawing the 2 time

lines makes me think to remove one year from the tax revenue. In other words if taxes started

being collect in 1868 and everything other than the initial investment is at end of year the the

first time we would see income would be in the year number 2. SInce I do not have another crack

at this question I cannot prove my thinking. Obviously this would reduce the total NPV from the

figure we all seem to have calculated previously (result would have to be under 10M). This one

of the promary reasons I would like specific feedback once the hard deadline is past. I hate it

when I cannot reconcile my mistakes with firm understanding and not just my assuptions of what

I did wrong.

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Comments

A comment was deleted.

gracey wang 4 days ago

HI, I also found in Excel when doing NPV formula NPV=(0.07, A1:A145) (A1: A145 being the

revenue stream from 1868 to 2012), I got a significant different results as compared to calculate

PV for each of the individual revenue year. I know something was wrong there because

technically, the NPV should = sum of the PV for all the individual revenue year. can someone

point out what went wrong here. Thanks

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Comments

If you're calculating just the tax revenue stream, then your result should be $17.4M (at least, I

think so, because I got the overall answer incorrect). If you use the "annuity with growth"

formula, you should get the same result. In my case, my manual NPV calculation gave the same

result as the "annuity with growth" formula.

So, either I got the concept of the problem incorrect... or the system's answer is incorrect. With a

handful of people in agreement that $10.4M is the answer (and with no one on the forum who

calculated the correct answer, or, even, an alternate answer), I'm suspecting that system may be

wrong...

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treemantan 4 days ago

OMG...I've also got the answer of 10.4..And of course, it was marked as incorrect though the

only

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Anthony Nguyen 4 days ago

Well, I have submitted both of my attempts. Then, I went back into the assignment two more

times. I've tried several values, and none of them worked.

Not even for the sake of the grade anymore, I'm curious who has obtained the correct result and

what was the methodology used.

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Georgi Kermekchiev (Student) 4 days ago

also got 104xx6xx, but it was marked wrong ... I do every assignment with two attempts, just for

practicing. So far all 100%. This question was on my second attempt of assignment 3, but got

90% ...

There is no doubt, the calculation should be done at year 0 (1867), I'm not sure only on whether

we shall also add tax revenue for 2013 ?!?

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Comments

The "Hint" pushed me to think that we should figure out NPV @ 1867. In 2012, the number is

very large. Did anyone get it right?

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Georgi Kermekchiev (Student) 4 days ago

checked Wiki: "Alaska Day celebrates the formal transfer of Alaska from Russia to the United

States, which took place on October 18, 1867" ... so 2013 should not be also taken into account

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A post was deleted.

I got the answer $10.4M and sumitted the answer in $ rather than in Million$ but I got no point. I

guess "round off decimal" means 10M or the timeline was totally wrong?

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A post was deleted.

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Anybody try this answer $9,290,3XX ? I suppose the purchase happened at the beginning of year

1867 and the tax began from begining of 1868. So, the goverment got no tax in the year 1867

and the first tax is zero. I will draw a timeline to illustrate my ieda:my timeline

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Comments

checked Wiki: On March 30, 1867, the United States reached an agreement to purchase Alaska

from Russia for a price of $7.2 million. Because the tax revenue started in 1868, the US

goverment got no payment for nearly a whole year. I guess $9,290,3XX should be the right

answer also I'm not sure wheather the answer should be sumitted in $ or Million$

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David P Burch 4 days ago

I got $9,7##,### on my second working of this problem but cannot submit as I am out of

submissions (only had this Q on my 2nd try where I used the $10,4##,### like many here). So I

am waiting for someone with correct answer to validate my new work or go back to drawing

board.

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Anonymous 4 days ago

I have tried that value. Still incorrect. Also you can attempt the quiz even after your 2 attempts

are done. You just wont get graded for it. You will be able to verify your answer atleast.

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Robert Rassam (Student) 2 days ago

Here is my steps in solving this problem i found an answer about 8.5 M outflow : -7500000 in

year 1867 Inflows year 2012: 50,000,000 = C1 year 2011: 50,000,000 * 0.97 = C2 year 2010: C2

*0.97 = C3

........ .............. = ... year 1868 = 6220000 it is simple when calculated on Excel

Then NPV (0.07, all values from C1) - initial investment equal approx. 8.5M Please tell me if I

am wrong

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Dragana Milinkovic (Student) 1 day ago

Robert, I'm just starting so I don't know if you're right, but Alaska was purchased for 7.2M, and

you wrote 7.5M.

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Robert Rassam (Student) 23 hours ago

Yes you are absolutely right it's 7.2 M not 7.5 M (typing mistake)

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Sion Lane 9 hours ago

Good day Robert, your calculation above for C1 is incorrect...

C = C1 * (1+g)

therefore C1 = C / (1.03) which would give you a different answer altogether

working back with excel to 1868 you will get 7xx6xx.8xx instead

alternatively the quicker method is using PV@1868 = (r0.03, n144, 0, FV50000000) to arrive at the same

answer

HI, Julianas 1st step is correct, you must find the first incoming payment (C) =PV of 50M (nper=20121868=144) (rate=3%). Then you must find PV of all future cash flows usig perpetuity with growth formula

(PV=C/r-g) and substract cost of course!

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Comments

Juliana Goryachkina 3 days ago

thank you, so the 2012 PV from 50M whould be 48,54M (not 50M as i put initially) and 145 period go back

PV whould be 0,69M...... or not/// just do not catch the way to put the formulae (PV=C/r-g) into the exel

cell.....

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Euphemia, I wished you would have posted this hint earlier. It became absolutely clear when you mention

the formula. I believe most people on the forum have been able to come up with the tax revenue for 1868

to be $0.7M.

From there though, the tax revenue continues indefinitely, it does not stop in 2012. Therefore, the

"perpetuity with growth" formula is the correct one to use, not the "annuity with growth" formula.

Thanks! This hint made the problem very clear.

(Unfortunately, I have already submitted my 2nd attempt. I can live with 90% on this assignment, though!)

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Yee, it is perpetuity!

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Julianna, it is just =C/r-g For example if the first payment is 100$, r=5% and growth rate = 2% it will be

=100/(0.05-0.02) and that's it!

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All of this considering NPV @ 1968, not 2012. Right?

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Thanks a lot Euphemia! I've finally got it

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hi Euphemia, why when calculating the first payment C1, we should use r=3% but not 7%? I am confused.

Thanks.

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Georgi Kermekchiev (Student) 4 days ago

I've tried non-scored attempt and I got the RIGHT answer ! 105xxxxx - Please consider perpetuity for tax

revenue !

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Comments

It makes sense. The question mentions that revenue will be 50M in 2012, but it does not say it will stop

generating revenue after that.

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How did you two get that answer 105xxxxx? I tried PV(.03,145,0,-50000000) and got $0.69M ,then I

applied the perpetuity concept ,PV/(0.07-0.03), and I subtracted the $7.2M, but I got the answer 9999xxx?

Anybody can help?

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@Yun,

You are attempting to discount the $50M tax revenue in 2012 to the tax revenue in 1868. Your number of

periods should be 2012-1868 = 144. Try your calculations again with 144 instead of 145, and you'll have

the correct answer.

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From today (end of 1967) until the end of 2012 there are 145 periods, but hint is that we need real amount

of payment in 1968 and it is 144 periods from 2012. That's why here we must use 144, so I made a

mistake at first, sorry!

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Hey Euphemia... Even from the end of 1968 to the end of 2012, it is 145 periods. [ 3(1868, 69, 70) +

{10(71 to 80) *14} + 2( 2011, 12)] = 145. Am I computing wrong ???

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End of 1968 means that 1968 is not included in discounting! So you should start with year 1969 actually. If

we take 4 periods - 2012,2011,2010,2009 we will get amount of payment at the end of year 2008. (+140

periods till end of 1968)

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hmmm...I got this one. that year is not including for discounting. Thanks.

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@Anthony 3x ~

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hey @Anthony @Euphemia or anybody else, I know how to get the answer now. But one things confuses

me still. To my understanding, the tax of year 2012 is $50M, so the goverment got the money at the end of

year 2012. So , using PV formula , I can get the PV of year 1868 is $0.71M and the final PV of perpetuity

$177xxxxx. But I thought $177XXXXX is not the PV at the end of year 1867 but year 1868. As The United

States purchased Alaska in 1867, shouldn't we have one more discount? Can someone draw a timeline

for me to explain the relationship between year ,tax,purchase and required PV? 3x very much

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Even though you are doing two PV calculations, one for the tax revenue and one for the perpetuity, the PV

calculations have different initial time periods.

More specifically, if you know the tax revenue is $50M in 2012, the PV calculation views 1868 as Year 0.

For the perpetuity, Year 1 is the first perpetuity payment (tax revenue). If you want PV for perpetuity, Year

0 is the year before the first perpetuity. Since 1868 is the first year of tax revenue, the PV calculation is for

1867.

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I believe most of us had the timeline correct. The issue is of when to stop using NPV for our calculations

and start using the perpetuity formula for calculations of many, many years. I would wager a guess that if

this question had asked for say the end year to have been 1966 thereby making it less than 100 periods

our NPV calculations would have worked. It becomes a matter of differing between the two methods by an

increasing difference of a few dollars every year. You can use perpetuity to 1000s of years but not so NPV

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Well, the different between an annuity and a perpetuity (in the finance sense) is that an annuity has a

finite number of payments and a perpetuity is a (theoretically) infinite number of payments.

Even if you knew that there were thousands of year of payments, but those payments were finite, the

annuity formula is correct.

In reality though, the annuity and perpetuity formulas will (practically) converge...

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Anthony, you are right. The 10.4M which most of us initially got is (somewhat) close to the correct answer,

though I suppose it would take much much longer than 100+ years for annuity and perpetuity calculation

answers to converge.

And I redid the problem and got the correct answer, finally! No more credit of course. But learning how to

do it, and being able to discuss it here with fellow students is worth much more than the extra points.

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Rohan Shah 4 days ago

Exactly. I got it. Think "Perpetuity" not "Annuity".

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schmelzer etienne antonin 3 days ago

Euphemia, Hello, thanks for always very valuable help, could you confirm that the pertuity approach is

correct... Thanks.

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Comments

Anthony Nguyen 3 days ago

Euphemia gave the formula as a hint. The perpetuity with growth approach is the correct approach.

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Anthony Nguyen 3 days ago

Just some additional intuition for those who missed the question.

The answer I thought was correct was $10.4M, assuming the tax revenue stream ends in 2012 (that is, a

very, very long annuity). However, the right answer is $10.5M since the tax revenue stream is indefinite

and, therefore, is a perpetuity.

If you calculate the PV (relative to 1867) of the $50M of tax revenue in 2012, it is only $2K. 2013 would be

less, 2014 would be less than 2013, etc. The summation of the years following 2012 will lead you from

$10.4M to $10.5M as the answer.

Of course, the correct mathematical approach is to use the first tax revenue stream, C, in the perpetuity

with growth formula, PV=C/(r-g).

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Comments

Carlos Alberto Reboucas (Student) 3 days ago

Abracadabra!

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We are falling like dominoes, beating the evil NPV into submission.

Congrats

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David P Burch 3 days ago

Ta da !! Finally on attempt 22/2 (many of course the other question 6 which I always had correct) I got it.

All my NPVs had been correct up to this one, but I guess NPV runs out of usefullness when periods gets

beyond a certain point. I had thought it was around 200 periods but apparentlly not. What's a ~ $100K

amoungst friends?

Thanks to the many contributors in this effort - I just wanted to know how to calculate - not so concerned

with score.

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Comments

Anthony Nguyen 3 days ago

LOL. Congrats!

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David, did you bring back the PV in 1868 to 1867 PV and then subtract the purchase cost? if do so,

seems the answer will not be the 10.5M instead of 9.36M range. I saw several post said the correct

answer is 105M and also several people said we must bring it back to 1867 to calculate the NPV.

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Qiaobin Zhang 3 days ago

Timeline has tricked me again! Apparently it should be 144 instead of 145. The 'Hint: Try and imagine you

are in 1867 looking forward' actually makes me think 1867 is year 0, again, I have failed on drawing the

correct timeline.

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Comments

Euphemia OshchenkovaCOMMUNITY TA 2 days ago

Actually it is correct - end of year 1867 is year 0 (145 periods), but perpetuaty formula needs C for year 1 (

1 year from today) and it is 1968 or 144 periods!

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Dear Euphemia I've calculated answer 10. 52 but it was counted as incorrect :-( So PV discounted to

1868 is 0,71 and PVofGP is 17.x2 Where i went wrong?

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@Illarion, the answer is approximately $10.52M... if you got the answer wrong, then unfortunately, your

last few digits were off somehow.

In your comment, you posted "PVofGP is 17.x2." Can you clarify what you mean?

Once you have $0.71M as the initial tax revenue (which is considered "C"), the perpetuity with growth

formula is PV = C/(r-g). From there, you still have to calculate the NPV using the perpetuity PV and the

purchase price for Alaska.

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Anthony PVofGP is 17,72

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Oh, yes, I understand now.

Your first few digits for your calculations are correct. Your error is in the last few digits. Perhaps, you have

a rounding issue?

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Sorry Anthony, my connection was lost till today. So about a rounding issue... Well, I used excel for a

calculation. And to calculate PVofGA I'd calculated PV of 50M at year 1868 (for 144 year) and got 0.71,

then used this number and 0.71/(0.07-0.03) , so I got 17.72 and so on...So as to the final answer it is

10.515 so we can round it in either way 10.51 or 10.52

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You should input your answer to the nearest whole dollar... Since it's 10 million dollars, you need to input

8 digits, rounding only the last digit.

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Wow, Thanks a lot!!!! I got 100/100 in the second attempt. :-)

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