Are Kilesas So Bad - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

3/9/2558
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Are kilesas so bad?

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Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334314)

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PostbyLuca123TueApr07,20152:30am
If a man, only for greed and lust of money, opens a compahy that produces vaccines
Becomes rich but helps thousands of people
Will he have good or bad karma for this?
Top

PostbySarathWTueApr07,20152:35am
Luca123 wrote:
If a man, only for greed and lust of money, opens a compahy that produces
vaccines
With the limited information you supplied, it seems he is doing good Kamma.
If he initiate killing, thousands of animals for his research, it is bad Kamma.
Top

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=23287&start=20
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SarathW wrote:
Luca123 wrote:
If a man, only for greed and lust of money, opens a compahy that
produces vaccines
With the limited information you supplied, it seems he is doing good Kamma.
If he initiate killing, thousands of animals for his research, it is bad Kamma.
This is against your previous statements as he is only motivated by greed

Top

PostbyDavidN.SnyderTueApr07,20152:58am
Luca123 wrote:
Attachment lead to many bad things but also good things?
Starting of companies, new inventions, medicine that cure millions
To be noted that medicines were invented and people lives saved not only
despite kilesas, but in many cases because of them
The inventor that had attachment to money created a new machine
Medicines and physicians are so necessary
You are assuming these things are always kilesas. They may not be rooted in greed. There are
plenty of people who choose to become a physician, physician's assistant, nurse or numerous
other professions to help people. Even some business people might be looking to make some
product that better serves humanity. It may not always be greed. In fact, there is a video by
the Prager organization (procapitalist) that argues that greed is not good, that greed does
not work. 90% of all businesses fail in their first year precisely because they were greedy.
They charged too much, they offered inferior products, so they failed. The successful
business must have concern for his/her customers. They have to take an active and
concerned interest in their customers' needs. Why? Because if they don't their customers will
go elsewhere and the business fails.
Top

2/8
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In this particular case the motive is greed

Top

Which particular case?

Top

PostbyWriTueApr07,20153:35am
Luca123 wrote:
If a man, only for greed and lust of money, opens a compahy that produces
vaccines
Karma is not a point system. Hypothetical examples are ineffective as we would need to
study the person's mind first hand to really know. On this example alone though, we can say
he would likely have good and bad karma because he may enjoy helping others, yet at the
same time, be motivated to hog resources for himself and thus deprive others of resources,
to do nothing but ignorantly attempt to fill a void, a void that only immaterial work will
solve. With the Dharma established, there is no need for greed. What you have is enough. You
help others where you can but you don't do it for your ego. There's no need. You're happy.
You bring happiness to others first and foremost because you are already happy. Greed is the
opposite of this. Greed therefore produces suffering in the long run, even if helping others is
a byproduct because you will be perpetually discontent and disappointed. It is not a point
system. Karma is very complicated as expressions of karma exist in just about everything. It is
something only arahants can understand completely.
Top

Intention is Kamma.
Hence you have to be mindful of your every intention.
A person may have thousands of intentions a day.
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Kamma can be:

1. dark with a dark result;
2. bright with a bright result;
3. dark and bright with a dark and bright result;
4. neither dark nor bright with a neither dark nor bright result.
Dark (evil) kamma does not give a bright (happy) result, nor does bright (beneficial) kamma
lead to dark (miserable) result. Kamma can be mixed, where an action is done with a variety
of motives, some good, some evil. And that kind of kamma also exists which gives up
attachment to and interest in the other three and so leads beyond the range of kamma.
From the Introduction by Bhikkhu Khantipalo to MN 57
Top

David N. Snyder wrote:

Dark (evil) kamma does not give a bright (happy) result
So you deny the possibility of a person starting a successful business for other people mainly
based on his greed for money ?.
Top

This is how I see it.

The path of the Buddha is the one which leads to the end of suffering
This is it
However, kilesas are dangerous for the one who has them but not always for other people
We are born because of kilesas (lust)
We have been fed with animal flesh, so animals had to be killed for this
We have used products created by companies who are mostly run because of kilesas
Love of mother to children is about kilesas
And still we agree that kileas are bad
I see only two choices:
1) you end YOUR suffering and go to Nibbana or
4/8
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2) you stay here and know that your kilesas will damage but sometimes be useful for others
But you will suffer
Maybe I am deluded, I know..
Top

Do not think about others.

Think about yourself first.
Can you end your suffering, according to your path?
Top

SarathW wrote:
Do not think about others.
What is the point of you being happy when all the world is in flame
Top

First you learn the are of happiness. (extinguishing the flame)

Then you can teach others.
Top

SarathW wrote:
First you learn the are of happiness. (extinguishing the flame)
Then you can teach others.
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Still people who have extinguished the flame eat food produced by companies with kilesas,
use planes and seat on cars produced by companies created by people with kilesas and so on..
So what is their victory about at the end..
Their victory would have not even come if lust wasnt there
Top

If you do not eat, you do not have energy to travel and teach the people with Kelesa.
Top

SarathW wrote:
If you do not eat, you do not have energy to travel and teach the people with
Kelesa.
This is what I am saying!!

Top

Buddha never asked you to not to eat.
Top

Using money is not allowed only for monks.

I share your concerns as I had similar arguments at the beginning.
Read the following post:
6/8
3/9/2558
What is right livelihood.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=16659&hilit= (http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?
f=13&t=16659&hilit=)
Top

This is not what I am saying

An arhant is born from a act of lust (kilesas)
Grows up with the face of the mother (kilesa)
Eats meat (killing animals, which is not good)
Travel by cars, created with some help by the kilesas
Uses train and medicines (created by companies with kilesas)
But kilesas are supposed to be working AGAINST enlightenment
Top
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3/9/2558

Are kilesas so bad?

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334314)

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334315)

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334318)

This is against your previous statements as he is only motivated by greed

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334320)

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334323)

In this particular case the motive is greed

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334324)

Which particular case?

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334326)

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334327)

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334331)

Kamma can be:

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334344)

David N. Snyder wrote:

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334357)

This is how I see it.

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334360)

Do not think about others.

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334367)

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334371)

First you learn the are of happiness. (extinguishing the flame)

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334372)

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334374)

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334375)

This is what I am saying!!

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334376)

Buddha never asked you to not to eat.

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334380)

Using money is not allowed only for monks.

What is right livelihood.

Re: Are kilesas so bad? (#p334383)

This is not what I am saying

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