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TAKU

RIVER TLINGIT PEOPLES MEETING

January
January 1
10,
0, 2
2015
015
June Jacks Home

THIS IS NOT A VERBATIUM RECORD Ive done my best to create a record
that is an accurate summary and anything in [square brackets] are my
own thoughts. I apologize for any spelling errors.
MEETING HOST: June Jack and she cooked moose nose and other wonderful
food for us!
BACKGROUND:
TRTFN Leadership decided to move TRT Economic
Development Department over to the Atlin Tlingit Economic Limited Partnership
NOTICE: It was found out on Friday that the decision to move the department
from our government to our corporation was being implemented on Monday and
those that found out called around to let people know there was a meeting to talk
about this decision made by our leadership.
ISSUES:
1. Do our leaders have the authority to make fundamental structural change
to our government without, at minimum, consultation through a Joint Clan
Meeting (JCM)?
2. Lack of transparency in leadership decisions

PRESENT:
WOLF

CROW

James Williams, Clan Leader

David Moss, Crow Clan Director1

Bryan Jack
Louise Gordon
June Jack
Lorraine Dawson
Mark Franceour
Donna Patrick
Sylvester Jack
Terry Jack
Yvonne Jack
Greta Thorlakson
Richard Carlick

Joan Jack
Henry Jack
Robert Williams
Raymond Ward
Patrick Jack


1 When arriving, I asked David if he was still a Crow Director and he said he was but
that he hadnt received any information for at least the last five months.
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Notes of Joan Jack, Crow Clan (Adopted)

TAKU RIVER TLINGIT PEOPLES MEETING


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015
June Jacks Home

GENERAL DISCUSSION:

Sharing everyone agreed that there is a need to make sure that we are sharing
with each other; sharing moose.
Justice a story was told where when we have offended someone we should go
over and make it right. Maybe take a cup or something a gift and make sure
to make it right - to take responsibility for your actions.
Teaching/Learning anytime dad got a moose, he said you gotta sit and watch
me (rather than ask a bunch of questions) and help out.
OPENING PRAYER James Williams, Clan Leader
(Mark, David were out of the room)
LG leadership is trying to transfer the econ dev department over to the
corporation and everyone I talked to said no. I had this letter drafted up. We
want to do this in a good way. This is the third draft. I drafted it and had
someone go over it [I want to know who]. The letter was read aloud.
In the beginning, people were talking about chaining the doors and locking out
our leadership and now, this third draft is calling for a meeting.
JamesW at Thursday at the band office they told Marion you are moving to
Como Lake, without discussion, and she said no, Im not going. She said
Peter is abusive to her and Donna and both feel that it is an unsafe place to work
in. So, who does Marion report this to? Her supervisor [her supervisor is the
Spokesperson? Assistant to Spokesperson?]
Richard Carlick and Greta Jack joined the group
We have to have a process where things are dealt with rt now we start one
problem and start one problem over here and ano one over here and we need
some structure so we have an end. [Justice for sure]
BJ We need a Declaration for our leaders and an education around our
Constitution for our people because we end up fighting over it and not implement
it and also the AANDC is dollars coming the people not to our leaders. Their job
is to pick up our mandates fr the JCM and we have to start believing that we
have that power to move things ahead as a peo and rt now our childrens future
is in jeopardy.
Mark and David came back

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Notes of Joan Jack, Crow Clan (Adopted)

TAKU RIVER TLINGIT PEOPLES MEETING

January
January 1
10,
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2015
015
June Jacks Home

Greta Im really glad that we are finally here and if we could get an action plan
tog and we sit around our tables and complain and complain and no one has
stepped forward we need an action plan now and stay on it until the citizens
who are the backbone of our FN are satisfied and are being spoken for by
leadership b/c rt now they do whatever they want rt under our noses and all we
do is sit around. Im willing to do anything. We are not all drunk and stoned. We
need leaders who are responsible and transparent with us and we are still in the
residential mode sitting here waiting for someone to do for us. Were tired of
being put down. I give up on counting on leadership for anything.
Craig joined the group
RC we always forget and up in Como Lake its supposed to be a construction
outfit and supposed to have profit so what is the difference? Theyre not going
to give us the service we want and will make sure they make their profit.
How did Phillip get in? Hes a good guy. A nice guy, but was he voted in? By
our Constitution hes supposed to be voted in and if he wasnt voted in, its illegal.
We cant be just letting things go by as if nothing happened.
We have to have some say the 2 million that was borrowed I wasnt invited
just a chosen few were invited and this shows that theyre shutting us out and
there are secrets. Were always talking about how legal we are and we got a
lawyer here and can give us advice for what is rt and wrong. There are things
that dont make sense. I was told that the bridge was sold for $500 or $600k and
I was talking to the guy and the most they spent on the bridge was $15 to $17k
how was that price determined and who was stupid enough to pay them that
money?
Service by a construction company were not going to get service they way we
have service now and peo who have small tanks will never get water b/c a
construction outfit is always there to make money and not to serve the people.
Greta they call it confidentiality, but its not confidentiality, its a cover-up. Why
do you think there are so many White people working in the band office?
Because they have to keep their jobs and if we were working there we dont
have to shut up this is our office, our money, and our Spokesperson is
supposed to say what we want him to say .. why are we putting up with it?
Why? Are we afraid? Lets be together. Lets be IDM we can call in the
media, camp outside the band office Ive got a wall tent and a stove and Ill do
it.
June Im already working on that getting tents Ive been working behind the
scenes and if we want the town we should ask them to help us.
Greta raised her voice and said no, I dont want that
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Notes of Joan Jack, Crow Clan (Adopted)

TAKU RIVER TLINGIT PEOPLES MEETING


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June Jacks Home

Craig Mgr Capital Public Works & Housing as a Mgr, Im bound by


confidentiality on certain things and there is info avail and after the CDC meeting
I didnt sleep. I just talked to Phil and let him know that I was doing this and
asked him to come so that hed have first hand info to base his decision on wh/nt
to fire or reprimand me and he chose not to come.
Just b4 Christmas Marion was given a letter telling her that EcDev was moving to
ATELP and she said she didnt want to work with ATELP and had many
questions.
We had CDC on Thursday and at our Managers meeting Kate, Jason, Tami,
Marion, Maxine, Eric we had four key points and the Managers were never
actually told, only Marion and express our concerns with the lack of planning to
implement the change. We were asked to leave at noon and Marion was
terminated. Marilyn Jack, Phil Williams, Toni Welsh and John Ward (Vicki was
absent) We were told it had to happen hastily and by Monday b/c there was a
desire to combine the STEP with the EcDev with the TRTFN and STEP was still
a part of TRTFN EcDev but being managed by ATELP.
LG - STEP was originally a part of Health & Social until Linda McGill got fired and
took it with her to Como Lake
As Mgrs our thought was that TRTFN EcDev could manage STEP, but
leadership said no.
[I couldnt keep up with Craigs solution] Basically, Craig suggested that O&M
move out to Como and buy back the equipment fr ATELP for $1.00 for $1.50.
Then TRTFN EcDev and STEP be together in town. Make whole building at 5
Mile into a proper Fire Hall which would increase funding fr $8k to $35k. He says
with his plan, there would be no need to secure $1.5k in Capital Funding for a
Fire Hall and ano O&M Bldg and that the $1.5k could be used for a Big House.
All of the most successful corporations in the Yukon are completely separate fr
the FN and have to make 15% revenue. Peter is really good and has the
personality to work in a corporate structure, but for the touchy feelie of capacity
building you guys know him better than me.
SHAKE could cut the management fees and use the money for programs to
pay corporate costs.
ATELP has the opportunity to purchase some of Sheldons businesses
This is all possible by Monday if deadline is Monday

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Notes of Joan Jack, Crow Clan (Adopted)

TAKU RIVER TLINGIT PEOPLES MEETING

January
January 1
10,
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2015
015
June Jacks Home

LG the FN contracted ATELP to manage the STEP for Social & Health
June and David the corporation is not supposed to be taking care of program
dollars.
David this is about the 6th or 7th time that this discussion as come up that the
corporations are not there to administer govt funding and the funding is going to
help out the corporations b/c they are not making any money rt now b/c they are
not making any money except for the hydro and gas station.
Greta so fire the Managers
Craig b/c some funding is avail to govt and some to corporations and AANDC
will not give the EcDev core funding to the corporation
Greta if the corporation is well known for sucking money out of every TRTFN
department and if proposal money should be spent on what it is intended.
Craig the 2 million loan was taken when they were finishing up the powerplant
and they had really high interest rates and now the interest rates are lower so the
restructured
David there was also a $400 LOC and more money on top of that
RC Ive been keeping track of what youre doing (Craig) and Marion Holler
have done and what Peter did was spending the money elsewhere and I had to
plow my own driveway and pay for the snow plow and ever since you came
weve had nothing but good service
Yvonne and Sylvester joined the group
Before Peter was spending that money on all different things and once he started
up that construction outfit he had to make sure the construction outfit made
money so what he did was haul gravel all the way fr Como Lake to here that was
sand and that house over there I was going to level it off and that whole thing
is moving and Craig has been fixing up all these things all over and doing a good
job. Peter is saving all kinds of money fr the band so he can have money to do
whatever he does spending it on the construction outfit. And, I dont see why
they did anything about Marion Holler b/c shes got a lot of knowledge and cares
for the people. Thats why I cant understand what is going on.
Joan is the Como Lake Building owned by TRTFN or ATELP?
Craig TRTFN

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Notes of Joan Jack, Crow Clan (Adopted)

TAKU RIVER TLINGIT PEOPLES MEETING

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2015
015
June Jacks Home

Craig this summer we just used the core money for what it was intended and
without extra proposal money fixed up the 5 Mile Roads
Bryan were you at that meeting Dave?
Dave no?
Bryan I heard that it was in the process for 7 years
James it was brought up that you and Louise approved this
Louise thats the reason we wanted to have this meeting b/c thats not true
Greta Ive lost two jobs the minute you start speaking out about people being
transparent and honest people out of the office and collecting their cheques
how can we hold the leaders and managers accountable? There were all kinds
of things that went wrong on my placement with Fisheries at Kuthai and Ive been
trying to get it straightened out. And, if a helicopter can go out and count moose
and caribou etc and is there any way we could take aerial photos and is there
any way we could they want to push you back at every single change. So, I
want to know how we can implement change in our FN so that the managers and
leaders are accountable. We could push education and here we are begging.
And, if the Managers are hiding stuff, what is it doing to the employees. Look at
how many have turned away fr our community b/c they couldnt get honesty all
the strong people are pushed out when we try and move forward in a positive
way.
Citizens Caucus was the very best Ive ever seen we did the Land Plan there
were two members from each [of the main families] and when one of the
[appointees] couldnt make it, then someone else in their family came and I would
so like to see Citizens Caucus come back.
There should be a Whistle Blowing Process and I want to see Marion Holler
reinstated b/c she cares for the people.
Joan Since Greta mentioned my name as one of the strong people whose been
shut out, the most recent job
Henry its not illegal to know whats going on.
James I did hear Marion say that a lot of the students shes talked to will not go
out to Como Lake and I think Marion should go to these same students and get
them to sign a paper and we as this group can also sign a form saying we want
this to happen.
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Notes of Joan Jack, Crow Clan (Adopted)

TAKU RIVER TLINGIT PEOPLES MEETING

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June Jacks Home

Craig Marion and I did up a form that the students could sign saying they dont
want their documents could go out to Como Lake and they are apparently getting
legal opinion.
Dave in 2018 ATELP is going to apply for the highway contract, so what would
happen?
Craig if they buy out Sheldons stuff, they would have that building to use
Terry joined us
RC Do you intend to do the same thing if you stay here? All the young people
that were trained as carpenters if there are new buildings to be built and roads to
be built
Craig we have a lot of capacity to do things and a lot of it has been contracted
out. This coming fiscal year Im applying for up to $2 million in additional funding.
We have road work and the addition to the TFLC and make it into a good after
school program..fix up King Salmon
Greta is Round River making money with bear viewing and TRTFN not getting
anything?
Craig I dont know anything about that and .. [couldnt hear] could be retreat
for healing.
Greta how would we know how much money TAC brings in?
Dave TAC was a contribution from Tides Canada, a Family, .
Greta how much money are they getting? TAC? $46k for Traditional Pursuits.
They are saying this is not TRT money when we had to lobby for it whose
money is it, how much is there? Susan, Vince, Helen & Jenoah and Steven and
Brian Evans. What happened to the $46k b/c I wanted to access some of it.
Joan taking fr what Greta said about strong people being pushed out I
applied for that job that Kate has and wasnt even given an interview.
Bryan why are funders pushing our money around when we dont even have
access to our money.
Craig they didnt say which funders, just that they two entities should be
together, but that could happen at TRTFN as much as it could at ATELP

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Notes of Joan Jack, Crow Clan (Adopted)

TAKU RIVER TLINGIT PEOPLES MEETING

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June Jacks Home

LG one of the things we talked about is that this is a meeting to set up a
meeting with leadership. So, we could write up what Craig had to say and
present it to the leadership. And, all the managers know about this.
Lorraine does other people out there in Vancouver know what is happening?
Craig its on FB and there have been calls this morning
RC I was asking Craig about contracts and all the work [should] go to TRTFN
members first?
Craig o/FNs where I worked it was FN members first, then other community
FN, etc. and if Im successful at my job then I will have a FN member that can do
my job.
RC [praised Craig again] How can you teach somebody when you dont know
yourself.
Yvonne most of you are aware of the letter I wrote about the number of times
our constitution was broken. Response fr Vicki a tab I couldnt open and then
a letter was supposed to follow in the mail and all I got in the mail was the
newsletter everyone else got. I felt pretty disheartened for myself and for all of
us. There is a big write up in the paper that the Liard FN is doing that to their
Elders and its not just us. So how do we start to make leadership more
accountable? I thought for sure that if it was in black and white, they would have
no choice but to do something. I did get a job with KDFN and I too wanted to
move home but couldnt get a job here and within 3 weeks of putting my resume
out KDFN hired me and how can those of us who are sitting on the side with
qualifications. Even that CHR position apparently it was an internal hire. And,
if youre non-FNs and youre already hired, then we dont stand a chance. Deal
with your people first.
Craig I read the internal posting as any TRT members
LG thats the way it was before
Yvonne I brought this up and was told by John that Louise and Bryan changed
it
LG thats not even true
Yvonne we have to get back to equal ground for FNs

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Notes of Joan Jack, Crow Clan (Adopted)

TAKU RIVER TLINGIT PEOPLES MEETING

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2015
015
June Jacks Home

Greta the Manager I had trouble with broke every single rule in the book, so I
was fired and Ive got 21 moose under my belt and 5 caribou and was born and
raised here and I am the only woman on the Fish & Wildlife Group and now they
are trying to kick me off. When you hire the same people to do the same jobs its
like buying votes. .. pick and choose who you want and I have three boys that
are willing to say they were paid for their votes. Im qualified for my job and I can
get out on the land, I know my animals, I know my fish. We should form a
Committee. You cant go the Leaders and Managers with complaints and there
should be a place of Grievance we can go I dont care if its the JCM.
RC Donna was let go legally and [spoke in support of her]
Henry I just want to say a good example of what Ive seen our welfare
cheque is $200 and these are the leaders making these decisions for us. If we
are able to see through to what theyve done then well be ok and thats all Ive
got to say
Sylvester Im not here for anything else but information gathering for myself b/c
Ive been hearing a lot of rumours in the community. Ive mentioned Craig before
that Ive got a lot of experience in Capital Programs 33 sober years and I
think weve got a real strong management capital programs team here and are
. In a step in the right direction and can build some good programs. This
summer was only an example for the band members of what can happen when
you spend the money the way youre supposed to spend it. There are
renovations, exterior retrofits ..sure well have to contract some of the things
out, but weve got capacity here.
In terms of moving out to Como Lake, we are afraid of loosing control of our core
funding we want to know how much is being spent where? ATELP we dont
even know what is being spent? How much is our CEO getting? $120,000. Its
not that hard to answer.
What we all have in common is that we want a future for our children and
grandchildren and our future and its up to each of us to look into our hearts and
stand up for what we believe in.
David thanks Craig and we need to look at the whole Marion thing and we
need to look at firing someone for the demands of a funder and she has helped a
great number of people, myself included. I told Peter he was riding off the coat
tails of one good project 5 years ago and hadnt made any money since and then
John and Peter went around the community telling Elders that I am fighting Peter.
Ive been black-listed and slandered in our community. It was a hard time to hear
the Spokesperson was going around the community bad mouthing me. I was
vocal saying the corporations are not a part of our governance structure and are
supposed to be making money and creating jobs for us.
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Notes of Joan Jack, Crow Clan (Adopted)

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2015
015
June Jacks Home

LG if people are comfortable signing that letter, then sign it and everybody
wants Marion back and no one wants EcDev to move out to ATELP. And a letter
to Leadership commending Craig for his good work and a letter about Marion.
Marc sounds good, sounds like killing a lot of birds with one stone.
Bryan I want to be a part of things going forward.
June I take responsibility for standing up and were just as bad as Managers
I blamed Marion for allowing the funding to be pulled and told her that she didnt
trust our people enough to bring it to the People [and this time she did
interesting to see how June has influenced things] and we have to support Craig.
Joan put a date in the letter of when we want the JCM and where is our Crow
Clan Leader?
David said he wanted some consistency and not just go to something thats
going to start and melt away.
Greta we decided that every 3rd Saturday there will be a meeting at Richards
at 2 pm
Bryan [spoke of the problem with the elections system conflicting with the clan
system]
LG We will meet on Tuesday
James after an open discussion we may have 10 items and then we priorize
them and if we .
LG Can we meet with the Leaders on Tuesday? At lunch
Raymond are we Clan System or DIA? We are a proud people. We know
whats righthow come were going clan system and theyre running it like Indian
Affairs and thats not right. It just makes everybody confused. We shouldnt
have to listen to White People weve had enough of that in residential school.
My dad told me if you wanna do something, stick together, do it together
Marc its an oxymoron
James its true what Raymond says we have to be together when we go to
do something we often look around and there is no one there and we have to
stick together and not break away. If we stick together we can be powerful. Im
learning about the Clan System way and . [spoke of encouraging our youth

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Notes of Joan Jack, Crow Clan (Adopted)

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June Jacks Home

and staying in our seats at meetings and paying attention to what is being
decided]
LG everyone agreed that I would help Louise draft two letters one saying we
didnt support Marion being fired, another saying that we support Craig and
another saying that we dont support EcDev moving to ATELP
CLOSING PRAYER Bryan Jack

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Notes of Joan Jack, Crow Clan (Adopted)

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