Josh Easby: If you could just wave a magic wand and relive one day, what

would that day be? Just one day. Which day would it be?
Ricki Herbert: Ah, thanks Josh! Well firstly welcome to everybody and thanks
very much for the invitation to be here. Its great and probably a lot of people I
havent seen for a long time and I think in, I guess in any walk of life, and the
pathways Ive been down some great people serve and its good to catch up so
Im looking forward to the game! I dont think Ive seen an ASB Premiership game
for probably a couple of years now so hopefully the teams turn it on, itll be
great!
Um, yeah good question! Yeah Its a hard one! Ive been very privileged I think
to have some great moments. I think when we qualified for the World Cup in 82,
or 81 Singapore, in that stadium as a young kid Im not sure you have too
many emotions, or youre not sure how to capture those emotions, but that was
a pretty awesome night. Its probably the only trip that Ive been on that I didnt
really care about breaking the curfew and getting home about 7:30 in the
morning. Im sure that John [Adshead] didnt mind either! Um, and I suppose you
can replicate that against Bahrain in Wellington. I didnt get home until 7:30 that
morning either John! But they were two pretty special moments. I think when
youre a Kiwi kid growing up to even think that you could play for your national
team and go to a World Cup, then having the honour of managing a team to go
to a World Cup, you know, would be a pretty special dream.
JE: What about some of the players in the opposite teams that youve played
against? Which of those games would stand out in your head because of who
you were actually playing against?
RH: Ah Probably the two best players I ever had the opportunity to play
against were Zico and Socrates. Ah, and incidentally a few months ago I was
managing against Zico who is currently managing in the Super League, and I
think hes staying on, hes taking on another two year contract to coach Goa
again in the Super League. Ive bumped into him a few times actually in
management. When I was in Japan I had the Olympic team and we played
against him so they are always sort of fond memories and I think, just a quick
story on that Brazil game, and I think Brian was probably the same and Cressy
[Kenny Cresswell] and all the guys that were in the team that with three minutes
to go I thought well Socrates hes the guy whose shirt Im going to get! So it
probably didnt matter where he was going to be on the pitch, I was going to
follow him around I probably broke the shape a little bit John, but I did manage
to get his shirt, and very proudly and sadly that hes passed away but that sits
firmly in my house its framed and itll be part of my lifetime for as long as Im
around.
JE: I looked through some of your records the other day, just to see who youve
marked over the years and there were a few surprises to me. I wasnt surprised
to see youd marked Kevin Keegan, Kenny Dalgliesh, but I did a double spin
when I saw Martin Peters, from the 66 English World Cup, and George Best! So
do you remember the games against those guys, and what they were like and

RH: Gee Im old now arent I? Um, I mean George Best, we played, I think it was
Reading. Back in those days you used to play a lot of club activity, the national
team used to play a lot, a lot more than they do now. Which was really cool, and
George Best was a guest player for them, and I think I think in that game he
might have nutmeged Steve Wooddin if I remember rightly. But yeah, I mean
again, really lucky. Kenny Dalgliesh through the World Cup and some pretty
iconic people that we come up against. Kevin Keegan was somebody a few
times, but I did have a little spell before I went to the World Cup in Spain, three
months when Lawrie McMenemy was the manager at Southampton and Kevin
Keegan was playing there with Alan Ball, Mick Channon, and so quite often
through training sessions I had the chance to tap him on the shoulder and look
for some advice and he was sort of forthcoming and very, very supportive and
very helpful.
JE: I just want to fast forward a bit now. Because I think 2010 is still fresh in our
memories. But what youve been doing since might be new to a lot of people
here so, you know, you went to Brazil World Cup and you were working for
whats it called? The FIFA Technical Committee. What did that involve and what
did you think of the Brazil World Cup?
RH: Yeah the role was part of the Technical Study Group. I did my pro license in
Europe and off the back of that I got to know the FIFA Technical Director, so roll
the clock forward, when youve got a little bit more time and youre not
managing national teams or club teams, it is very lucky to have an appointment.
So 14 different people from around the world, different nationalities, we all
assembled in Rio. It was quite a formal sort of format on what to look for, and I
think at the end of any World Cup whether its mens or ladies or youth or
whatever theres a full document that comes out, a full booklet that gets
circulated to 209 member countries and its all a breakdown on statistics and
styles and patterns and strengths and weaknesses in players etc. And thats all
aligned with Video analysis of goals and where goals come from and so its pretty
high tech and very detailed. So we met in Rio. We all have a debrief, Grard
Houllier was our boss. Then we all got distributed around Brazil at all different
venues to start with. So you pair up with somebody. I headed up one of the
groups in Port Alegro [Porto Alegre?] and then for every home game youd have
another Technical Study Group member whod come along and work with you. Id
do one team, hed do the other team. Once that was completed youd head off to
different venues. My draw was pretty good because I got to see some pretty cool
games, which was great, including the Brazil Germany game, so the quarterfinals, semi-finals, and then we all did the final as well. So that concludes, the
documentation comes out, and that was a really special time I think Josh.
Good people. I mean you tend to get people who have managed national teams
or have been captains, so again building a lot of relationships. The guy who
writes all the technical analysis for all the youth teams in the Spanish federation
he was part of the group as well, so theres a connection there. Its helped from
a personal point of view because around some areas in New Zealand now Im

operating my own academy and so that sort of up to date information on

preparing young players is pretty much at the forefront for me so Ive been very
lucky to kind of connect with those people and have that information brought
back to New Zealand. And again when the Under 20 World Cup rolls out a little
later this year, Ill be part of that group as well.
JE: So that gave you a pretty good handle on where the game is at now at the
top level and youve been around long enough to be able to compare where it is
now with where it was when you started as an 18 year old. Where have been the
biggest changes? What are the most significant steps forward in terms of
playing, coaching, management, in that period?
RH: I think theres probably a raft of areas. I think its pretty complex. You can
look at strategically how the game is being played, tactically how the game is
being played, I mean the strength and conditioning and preparation of players is
obviously completely different. The monitoring of players, the hydration, the
nutrition, all that kind of thing is kind of at a different level but the one thing I
would say is its almost like an evolution in football where, off the back of the
World Cup in 2010 people thought the only way to play the game was how Spain
played it. Off the back of the Brazil World Cup probably not many people wanted
to play that way, or found that it wasnt as effective or there were other ways
strategically to deal with that type of football, and I think when you look as a
cross-section A good thing about the Technical Group is that youre not aligned
to anything, so it can be very open, you can debate, because I think at the end of
the day its the global information thats going out to the game that becomes
important rather than just an individual single sort of opinion.
But if you look at the Germany side or if you look at that World Cup in context
the three best teams from an organisation and discipline point of view were
arguably the first three teams in the competition so thats Germany, Argentina,
ahhh Brazil were probably the most disorganised But yeah, Germany,
Argentina probably two and probably Holland to a certain extent. The 2010 World
Cup had a different flavour to it. I think people, publicly were excited about it
because there were a lot of goals scored but if you are a technical person
breaking it down, which we had to look at it from a technical point of view, not
sitting there as a fan thinking this is really open expansive football and its really
enjoyable we kind of had to find the values and the detail that was making a
difference in world football and what those trends looked like. And I think the side
that had the most disciplined component right across, whether it was attacking,
counter attacking, defending, pressing, not pressing, set play organisation, how
they set up structurally was Germany.
You know I always think it will be a sort of evolving opinion on the type of football
thats played and I think traditionally around the world now youll probably start
to see a combination of a raft of things. Itll be interesting! I think the Under 20
World Cup wheres that going to go? Whats that trend going to look like? I
think itll be a little different than perhaps weve seen in the past.

JE: Are there any countries that we should be having a dollar on at the TAB now
to win the next World Cup based on what youre seeing develop?
RH: I dont know! I think on the back of the 2010 I thought the only side that you
could back was Germany and they probably went on and won it. I thought they
were an incredibly good side, they invested in young players, they are very
patient, very disciplined, and I think albeit losing Thomas Mller for the semifinal/final period that they probably could have gone on and been very good
contenders there but
Asia, I guess you can look at Asia because its kind of close to us and kind of
what we are looking at doing. They had four teams in the World Cup, finished
bottom of the group, all of them, and never won a game. So thatll be interesting
to see what that trend looks like. I think from a youth perspective and where
thats moving to, and obviously some big disappointments in the Asian Cup at
the moment with some of the big players not sort of featuring. I dont know, if I
look at some of the sides, some of the African nations, from a discipline point of
view I think are getting a little more better. And I think from an individual
perspective you see some absolute talent coming but they tend to dip a little bit
just from an organisational point of view.
But, um, who would I be looking at for the next World Cup? Dont know. I dont
think you could look far past Argentina.
JE: Very good. Um, India. You just spent a year watching the Indian Super League
start up, and we had a coffee before, just wondering if you wouldnt mind
sharing some of the crowd numbers, like the local derbies, and whats happening
over there because I think for most of the people in this room this would all be
new stuff.
RH: Yeah, the Indian League, I think if you could roll the clock forward five years
time I think its going to be an amazing place to sort of be part of and just I was
saying to Josh over the coffee theres two sides East Bengal and a club side
called Mohun Bagan that play out of Calcutta so the big rivals. If you look
historically I think they rate as probably in the top three as far as attendance,
they are anywhere between 100,000 to 120,000 for a club game. The stadium is
just sensational. It has all been done up because in 2017 India are hosting the
Under 17 World Cup. So its an artificial turf, its getting dug up, itll be all seating
and a natural grass pitch. But I went to the opening game there Ill just touch
on that and then Ill go back to how I actually got to go to India 88,000 people
at the opening game. Calcutta played Mumbai so two really big franchises, and a
little bit on the franchises. Calcutta are associated with Atletico Madrid, so they
had a month in Madrid from a preparation point of view. Luis Garca played for
them, the ex-Liverpool player, so there was a strong connection back to that
club. Mumbai, massive, signed Anelka on some huge contract, he was only there
for I think he played about eight games, scored a couple of goals.
But the league in general they have 429 million people viewed the games from a
TV viewership. The franchise I went to was a small franchise, North East United,

we finished bottom, we were four points off the playoffs. Our games were sold
out every game. We had 30,000 plus in the stadium. Kerala, which was a finals
series team, which Sachin Tendulkar was part of, we played them in the second
to last game 63,000. They went through to the finals series. So generally
around the grounds I think there was only one franchise, Pune, which probably
had about 12,000 as an average. Generally speaking people around that sort of
30-40,000 from a support point of view.
But my involvement came very quickly. Three years ago the Phoenix travelled to
India, we had a pre-season, we played in a small town called Shillong. When I say
it was a small town, it probably had 15 million people And just, crazy. Hard to
describe but different! So the owner of that club contacted me and said look
Ricki, Im part of this group, theres an actor involved in it, he loves his football,
but from an infrastructure point of view would you be able to come across in year
one and help us. We need a preparation, this is a long term view (not for me but
long term for them) can you help us organise a grassroots programme, get an
academy operational, manage the team, and how we go just see what sort of
pans out from that. So I thought why not? Culturally it was different, great part
of the world to go to, new experience for me, so I jumped on a plane and headed
across.
I was there for four months, went to the international draft. The concept of the
franchises was you could choose out of an international draft or you could
choose from an Indian draft we didnt. All the players came from Shillong, so if
you look up Shillong in the I-League, which is the normal competition which is
operational now, they are a mid-table to bottom team. If youre any good you get
bought and you go to the big clubs, so the players we had were very young, very
inexperienced, but some great kids. Some very, very talented players that
maybe in two or three years I think will realise, and I truly think that that
franchise could be very big and very strong.
A lot of money put into the infrastructure of trying to make the league
operational. A week out from the competition everybody had to be positioned in
a five star hotel, minimum, and the whole two and a half months everybody was
in a hotel complex so we were based in a city called Guwahati, I think thats
about 15 million as well and then you travelled around, so we played at home,
then wed go to Mumbai or to Delhi or whatever. Training facilities were limited,
incredibly limited. Stadiums, I was very, very surprised with very good. Some
were cricket stadiums and very big. But just sensational, the support, the
recognition, the television coverage, everything.
People have asked me the level of competition I guess it would be only fair to
maybe compare it across the Tasman because its a short period of time, theres
limited games, theres a little bit of stress on the players because youre playing,
but youre not playing a lot of games. But I dont think its too inferior to the ALeague if Im being honest. I think in five years time I think itll be a very, very
strong competition.

Currently its the fourth biggest attended league in the world. So EPL, La Liga,
Bundesliga, Indian League every other competition sits behind it. So Ironic, yep,
youve got a population base but youve got to get them out and youve got to
get them watching. As I probably thought: its cricket. But the top cricket guys
are all getting involved Tendulkar was involved, Ganguly was involved, I always
get his name wrong, Haber, Harbhajan or whatever the spin bowler theyve all
got some sort of input because as I was saying to Josh over a coffee its funny, I
mean if youre going to watch an All White game here I think irrespective of
whether or not you had 40,000 people I think the spectacle would be around the
game and the interest would be there and the excitement would be there. But I
went to the opening game in Calcutta and Sachin Tendulkar was just sitting down
in front because they had all the ownership and all the managers all in one area
and every time he moved, basically 88,000 people moved, and hes just so iconic
cameras would come from every single direction and the game was kind of
irrelevant. So its a lot around that, the actors, and the one we had it doesnt
matter where John moved, thousands of people would be there. Its just, for me,
culturally different. Yep, we have a lot of support and a lot of interest in a lot of
countries weve all been to to kind of coach teams or play at. This was just so
different. The volume of people was just incredible.
But yeah, look, fantastic, great, really enjoyed it, culturally different, lost 10kg,
feel real good, didnt have a curry dont even think I had a traditional Indian
meal! But we trained really hard and you know when youre four months away, I
only employed one person and we were kind of there together on the pitch every
day, two sessions, one session, in the gym, and I think just from a personal point
of view coming off the back of the Phoenix and the national team as youve all
read or whatever good, bad or indifferent it was quite refreshing for me to be
in an environment back on the grass doing things that I love doing.
But Im back here now, Im not sure about going back there. Its not something
that Im, you know, kinda waiting for the phone to ring. So Im back here building
my academy. Some will know about that, some may not, but Im working hard
around the country to hopefully prepare, support, develop, assist the next tier of
national team players at some age group, and hopefully hopefully be able to
help in some other directions nationally or whatever but ahhh, Ive been waiting
for that phone to ring. Lets wait and see, John!
JE: Actually do you mind telling us a bit about your academy and how it
operates?
RH: Its not political. This is a concept that Ive had operating for a little while
and I guess now Im back Ive got time to kind of go around and I think when
you look at the expanding growth of young kids playing our sport in New Zealand
that Even when I was the national coach the difficulty I think from a national
organisation and actually trying to cover everything is hard, and I think Kenny
can probably vouch for that hes worked for the organisation for a number of
years and federations. So I guess we sit there. There are other private providers,
we sit there as a support mechanism to help and develop players. We are

incredibly supportive of moving those children into national team environments,

federation environments, so we have some for a little period of time and then we
lose them for other periods of time. Thats kind of where we sit, but its operating
in different centres, weve got some talent centres operating now so, holiday
programmes, weve got yearlong programmes operating in six different venues
in New Zealand now. Its been well received, its kind of non-threatening, if
people want to come they come, if they dont they dont.
But one thing I would say is weve got an incredibly strong curriculum thats
come from some pretty good people around the world that are working with
arguably some of the best kids in the world so hopefully that transpires to
helping the new national coach at some stage have a good crop of players come
through.
JE: Last year we threw it open to the floor for anyone who had any burning
questions either on something that Ricki has already raised or something that
youve been dying to ask.
Questioner: Yeah, Ricki I think what youve said about New Zealanders being
asked to help other leagues around the world, its something, a concept I havent
thought of. Ive thought of just going as a coach or a manager. But are there
opportunities for more New Zealand coaches and people involved in the game to
actually go around the world and create new leagues and things like that?
RH: Yeah, I think its important that we try really hard to get people into
overseas environments. Its not easy. Its not easy to make that happen and I
think its just trying to build those relationships now with people who can get into
those environments so that they can support a little trail coming behind to get
people offshore. Like I say, the worlds always evolving and I think whilst we sit
down at this part of the world we do incredibly well for where we sit, what we do,
the resources we have, the players we have, the development that we are trying
to achieve. But, Id like to see a far bigger investment in getting people offshore
and even if it was for small periods of time to let them experience what it is like.
Because its vastly different from what happens here.
Q: I think that theres a perception that we are not good enough, but you have
obviously shown that we are when youve done a lot with FIFA and that sort of
thing so we must have people that are good enough to get out there.
RH: I guess for the, lets say 50 people here who would like to go overseas,
every country has probably got 200. Its just trying to build those relationships
and I think thats the most important thing that if you can sort of shoulder tap
somebody to get an opportunity to get somebody abroad then its well worth
doing that, you know? And consequently the opposite, I mean theres a couple of
very good young talented kids that are playing in India that culturally I feel would
benefit from being in New Zealand, getting absorbed into the football society
here, and taking that back and trying to help them build over the next few years.
I mean, theyve got a huge chance so I think theres a little bit on both sides.

Q: Hi Ricki, 2010, New Zealand punched above its weight. Why do you think that
happened?
RH: Um I think we had a good side. I truly do. I think John had the privilege and
I certainly had the privilege of being involved with a group of players that I guess
we had the responsibility of making sure you could extract the best potential out
of it and hopefully we did realise that. I think we were very disciplined and very
organised and I think at the end of the day, I always reflect back and I think the
opening game was incredibly exciting. I think when you go to the World Cup,
potentially the one thing that was never a consideration within the management
or the team was around wanting to go to the World Cup and just kind of be
happy to hop on the plane and then return three games later. I think there was a
real desire to go and achieve. Individually I think it created opportunities for
people more so on the playing side to advance their development and maybe
move on into different areas and different clubs around the world Winston was
a classic example of that, nobody knew him and now hes gee hes in the paper
every day, isnt he? Arsenal, Man United, West Ham, you know whats going to
happen? I think thats a great story of a guy who has actually come in.
But the thing I have always considered in my coaching is three areas.
Strategically I could pick a way of playing so whatever system that might be or
whatever you do. The second thing tactically so whether you want to pass the
ball, you want to play long, you want to play up from the keeper whatever you
want to do you can make a decision. But the third thing was always critical to
me, and was always going to be the defining outcome of whether we would have
success or not success the application of the player. If youve got eleven people
with the right application and the right understanding then anything could be
possible and I think in those three games we got it right.
Ive always had the question would you do anything different, would you be
more attacking against Paraguay I probably wouldnt. Because I think after 20
minutes we could have been three or four nil down. You know, in reality in that
game. The other games I think Italy the guy dived, I dont think it was a penalty
[keep dreaming Enzo], so yeah I think you could scope that a little bit
differently but I think it would be easy to say after the three games Ricki would
you have done maybe you could have been more attacking and Im thinking
shit, you probably thought wed go to the World Cup and never get a point or
win a game! So I think the success kind of built so quickly that people then
expected it to be even bigger and better. And Im not sure it could have been any
bigger and better. But thats just my view and my opinion. I think well organised,
well disciplined, but you know, credit to the players! I think the application of
those players was incredibly good.
From a question around the team, and it was interesting because coming off the
back of the Technical Study Group in Brazil I was with a couple of media guys, I
wont mention the names, and they were talking about the side being quite
defensive and I said well, Shane Smeltz, Rory Fallon and Chris Killen played up
front in all those three games. Im not sure that three out and out strikers have

played in a World Cup campaign for New Zealand. Three out and out strikers. I
mean, those three dont have a defensive ounce in them at all, but their
contribution to the front line of defending was incredibly good. But they are three
number nines! If you are looking at in relative football so Im thinking I dont see
that as being defensive at all. I see that as being incredibly attacking to not
take the gamble because I trusted those players to actually formulate and do
things well at the front from a defending point of view.
Ill only look back with fond memories of 2010. Ive got my own views and own
opinions and people have their views and their opinions but at the end of the day
like John, hell be incredibly proud of what the team did in 82, Im incredibly
proud of what happened in 2010 along with BT [Brian Turner].
Q: In terms of the Indian Super League can you see players moving from there
to big European leagues? Is there enough of a base? Is it comparable to Africa or
nowhere near?
RH: I think in my mind when I was going to India you are thinking of, I say this
respectfully, of more of a fragile type, maybe technical type player. Quite the
opposite. Well developed. Strong. Probably from a technical point of view, and Ill
only talk about my own franchise, from working with it but Peter Reid I spent a
bit of time with, and Zico was good from what was happening in Goa is a very,
very big football community, but technically a little deficient. Our ones for the
first four weeks I thought wow, this is going to be an incredibly strong challenge
but the development of those players working twice a day, working at a
completely different intensity, working alongside better players from an
international pool point of view. Although we didnt, the franchise didnt spend a
lot of money some of the international boys we had were quite good. Then there
was a rapid rise, and I think thats a real hotbed of football thats waiting.
Theyve only really produced one player thats gone to any sort of extent, he
went and played at Hull, and hes integrally involved now in the sort of
administrational side but I think now that the Super League has come
opportunities to play alongside good international players, and I think thatll only
get better because what Im reading now is each and every individual franchise
will have the right to go and sign their own international players. The draft came,
and just a quick example of the draft, 49 players were on the draft list, the club I
was at had already pre-signed two international players. So you had seven
rounds of the draft, we missed out on the first two. So the best possible player
that you could select from the draft would be the sixteenth player, so you can
imagine the level you are going down to. Five of the players on the draft came
from a Brazilian club side and they were all young players that had very little
history to choose from. I think the last player we got in the draft was like number
47. Well, hed be as good as Bill de Graaf, 9 Oclock on a Friday night. It was
really random from a selection point of view.
Roll the clock forward to the new one and the coaches and the owners will be
able to have a self-selection. The issue you are going to have there is some of
those franchises have got millions and you might get a vast separation on what

is possible and I know the franchise Im at there wont be a lot of money to spend
so itll have to be quite smart purchasing.
But I was impressed. Ill tell you when I left I thought theres some players
around the league I think internationally, and with them having the Under 17
World Cup 2017, what a fantastic chance. But there wasnt anything operational
for those kids. That hadnt even started.
Q: Why do you think Auckland failed to sustain an A-League team and do you
think theres room for a second franchise based in New Zealand based in
Auckland in the future?
RH: I think it was a difficult period. Its that sort of connection of sustainability
and I think probably a franchise in New Zealand needed to have, sort of a little
more longer term vision and I think that longer term vision creates back down to
the grassroots, and goes to the fans. Ill give you a snapshot of my first year at
the Phoenix. Didnt know Terry Serepisos, he rings me up, flies to Auckland, we
had a coffee at the bottom of Sky City tower Ricki come and coach the team.
Right. So what do you need to do? Well, lets score some goals, so just
randomly trying to connect with the public, you know, we can score a few goals,
hit the back of the net, results might not be quite so important, and try and build
that. Yeah I mean constantly I think maybe from the Auckland environment that
it can kind of waver a little bit.
But I think youve got to be impressed now with whats happening at the
Phoenix. Its stable, its solid, theyre doing well. I think the best thing thats
happening now is, and it should have happened six years ago but for six years it
kept getting turned down, is that theres an opportunity for young players to play
somewhere. People have an opinion whether its the ASB Premiership or not, but
at the moment it is the ASB Premiership and theyve got an academy. For the
first six years for me at the Phoenix a player like Kosta, Marco, couldnt play
anywhere. There was nowhere for them to play. So it doesnt surprise me that a
young player, obviously from this area, Tyler Boyd, has got the ability now to
progress and play well because he can have a game on the weekend rather than
go a whole season and not play at all.
Infrastructurally I think it was testing times, you know John was part of the
franchise in Auckland and kind of connecting with the public its, I think it was
just a difficult era and hopefully we are coming out of that. And was it sorry?
Will we get another franchise in
Q: Yeah, could we sustain one in the future in Auckland? Can New Zealand have
two?
RH: Ahh I dont think so. And Im not sure theyll be allowed to.. Will it get
supported? An interesting thing will be, and Im not sure its happened yet,
obviously because Im not in those circles anymore, but the decrease in overseas
players may start to happen so a New Zealand player The way I look at it, very
few New Zealand boys get to get a game in an A-League team in Australia.

Probably a handful over the past five or six years. So look at Ernie now. Who
would he recruit, if you could say to Ernie go and sign ten New Zealand players
for a new franchise because the volume of players are going to have to be
domestically based. So its probably more around timing than should they get
another franchise.
Q: Auckland City would say just give us the license and well compete.
RH: Yeah but they couldnt because theyve got too many foreign players so the
franchise wouldnt stack up. Because youve got to remember that the Phoenix,
the New Zealand boys in the Phoenix, are OK. But a New Zealand boy in an
Australian team is a foreign player. So, I dont know, how many foreign boys play
for Auckland? So you wouldnt get a team. Really the fundamental thinking if I
was going to go into a franchise support whether its in Christchurch or Dunedin,
lets not say Auckland, then fundamentally I would want to have the confidence
that I had a strong group of New Zealand based players. Because thats what its
going to come down to. I havent seen an ASB Premiership game for two years so
maybe its a good question to ask me afterwards.
But I think, I mean Auckland, Waitakere, Ill be honest theres a lot of foreign
players playing and Im thinking at the end of the day maybe thatll have a
consequence on what happens internationally. Maybe. In Australia I think they
think differently because theyll decrease the volume of overseas players and
when you have an academy youve got to be an Australian resident. So the long
term thinking of if you go into Asia, and youve seen the consequences its been
for the young teams for Australia, that theyve hardly qualified for anything. The
senior team is surviving. But ultimately the A League is a strong catalyst to
produce international talent. Hopefully theres thinking long term in New Zealand
about having competitions that could produce international talent.
JE: One last question before we grab some food!
Q: Ricki weve been introduced to a new competition with the Asian Cup in
Australia. Youve been in India. Is this a new pathway for New Zealand in terms
of international football changing in prominence, I mean weve seen teams that
you guys played in 82 and competed with and beat, apart from refereeing
decisions *cough* Kuwait, so where do you see that Asian Cup, the competition
and what that could potentially do for New Zealand?
RH: I guess the question is does New Zealand go into Asia and I think thats a
massive decision. Financially its probably good. Television rights, I mean you
could imagine a World Cup campaign, were in the last ten, and were in a group
with Japan, Oman, Iraq and Iran. I mean, wow! The opportunity to quickly
develop or not. But I keep coming back to the sustainability of your national
team will only be as good as the opportunities and development of your younger
players. Now, the majority I may be wrong here, but a number of our young
players are abroad now. But there are a number of young players that will still be
in the national team that will be domestically based. Thats where my concern
would be is what can we do to keep producing talent because if you take your

young teams into Asia then well probably never qualify for anything. Because
Australia has really struggled Im not sure the last time they actually made
anything from a youth perspective.
Senior level is really interesting. Because, I mean Japan knocked out in the
quarter finals. Does that mean that Asia is getting stronger or getting weaker?
Its a hard one to determine. Youre looking at a 90 minute performance where it
probably could have been 6-nil but ended up going to penalties and you end up
getting knocked out and youre gone in the quarter finals
Q: I guess thats the challenge of tournament football isnt it? Its over 90
minutes. But the other thing you feel is, as a New Zealander watching it, an All
Whites team in that Asian championship being played right now would be very,
very, very competitive.
RH: Ideally from my perspective you could put the winner of Oceania into Asia.
So if were good enough to win out of Oceania, then we get a shot in the Asian
one. Because potentially you could go through there and you could be in a group
that you could have three teams that would be a World Cup finalist anyway. But
then youre talking about is that going to stop you going to a World Cup? So
whats the best pathway, do you actually spend time and invest time because
the interesting thing for Australia will be all those young teams that have failed
to qualify, are they actually going to produce talent that when Tim Cahill retires
and Joe Bloggs retires, is that Australian team going to be good enough to
continue to go to the World Cup? Im not sure. Because it will only come from
here and if they are failing every time and missing every hurdle and, I dont
know, hypothetically were in Asia and we never qualify for anything in the 17s
and the 20s or we dont go to the Olympics or whatever and we stop producing
players in our own country and we dont invest in players playing in the ASB
Premiership and nothing keeps evolving then Im not sure the national team
will go anywhere. Maybe by then you are picking eleven players abroad.
Q: I guess as a manager the good thing is you get to get those players because
the clubs wouldnt hold them back from those championships.
RH: Id get the players anyway. Because the clubs arent allowed to hold them.
John Adshead: Ricki one of the problems is the overage players. Theres a lot of
political reasons why that happens with young players in Asia, but when youre
playing at Under 17 level you can be playing against a player thats 20, 21 years
of age because his passport says he is and there can be a lot of political reasons
why thats happening in certain countries like Iraq, Iran, where thats done quite
widely and thats one of the reasons that Australia struggle because we do send
schoolboys, and WE would send schoolboys, and its a very difficult job.
RH: Yeah, I mean hes worked in the Middle East so youre going to get a spot on
sort of decision there. And I think the other thing too when Australia went into
Asia, preparation of their players was done at a different age group. The timing
of the World Cup qualifications in Asia was completely different than the

qualifications for timing in Oceania. So if they brought in a group of players at 15

so they were preparing them for the Under 17s a year later, then they were
missing by a year so they had to go down to a 14 year old category to get them
ready because the window had been brought forward 12 months because its a
far longer period of qualification. And sometimes we go to, I dont know, Papua
New Guinea and you go there for a week and you find a winner. Their
tournaments can be played over a sort of an eight, nine, ten month period. So
they had to go back and change everything from a development point of view
and go lower down, which would have been a tier of player they werent working
with anyway. So there is a process.
Ideally, New Zealand, you are playing in Asia, youre playing all the big countries,
theres great television coverage, financially the game is benefiting from it, you
know there is a lot of positives around that. A lot of positives. Depends whether
you want to say hey lets stay in Oceania, might be a window, we might draw
the fifth placed team in Asia, we might qualify for the World Cup, thatll do us
well take that.
Not sure I would
JE: Look, on behalf of everybody, that was fascinating, Ricki. Its great to have
you back in the country. Youre allowed to go and work overseas as long as you
keep coming back, and youve dropped some very unsubtle hints there that you
want to have something to do to help New Zealand Football in future, and I hope
that phone does ring because youve got so much experience and passion for
the game here that it would be a shame to see it lost so On behalf of
everybody here I just want to thank you for what youve given the game and
what youve brought here to Cambridge today to share with us and Id ask
everyone to show their appreciation to Ricki.
[Applause]