Hindutva Crazies On The Dat..

Hindutva Crazies on the Dating of the Rig Vedas | Beyond Hig...
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Beyond Highbrow Robert

Lindsay
BY ROBERT LINDSAY | MARCH 15, 2011 4:47 AM
Hindutva Crazies on the Dating of the Rig Vedas

I am not sure why Hindutvas want to push the dating the Rig Vedas back so far. Can anyone help me here?
Generally, the Rig Vedas are said to begin around 3900 YBP. This is also the time of the Aryan migration to India. For
some reason, in order to subdue the hated Aryan migration theory (AMT) Hindutvas need a very early date for the Rig
Vedas. But why is this? Why is an early date so important? Im lost here.
An early dating of the Rig Vedas is very important if you want to push the Out of India Theory for Indo-European.
Perhaps this is the motivation here?
Here is an article on the dating of the Rig Vedas from a crazy Hindutva website that is extremely popular with educated
Hindus.
We will go through this nonsense part by part here:
The Saraswati River. This river supposedly disappeared 3900 YBP and it is mentioned in the Rig Vedas. However, no
one really knows what river is being referred to here. The earliest references to the Saraswati are to the Helmand in
Afghanistan. Later references are to a river in India. The Saraswati has always been a mystical river in the Vedas, and the
Saraswati River theory endlessly pounded by Indians is widely considered to be a red herring.
The Egyptian pyramids had to have been built using ancient Indian mathematical knowledge. Ive never
heard this one before, but it sounds nuts. The algorithm for building the pyramids is supposedly found in the Vedas.
Astronomy. Supposedly, astronomical records prove that the Vedas date back to 6000 YBP. This theory is widely
considered dubious.
The Rig Vedas do not mention silver or cotton. This is another one that they hammer on all the time. Im not
exactly sure what it is supposed to mean, but supposedly it puts an early date on the Vedas. The Vedas dont mention all
sorts of things.
The sages. Supposedly the sages are dated all the way back to 5700 YBP. But we have no way of dating any of these wise
men and their eras. Thats purely speculative.
No mention of iron in the Vedas. Iron came to India 3200 YBP, so supposedly the Vedas must date before that.
However, the word ayas is reportedly used in the Vedas for iron. Hindutvas dispute this. There is definitely mention of
metals in the Vedas, and the Aryan migration can be dated from place to place in South Asia according to the introduction
or iron, as the Aryans brought metalworking.
Indus Valley Civilization. The Harappans, or IVC, are said by one Indian author to be mentioned all throughout the
Vedas. This would take the Vedas all the way back to 9000 YBP. This makes no sense. The time of Vedas, with horses,
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chariots, soma, stone forts and metals, simply screams 2nd millennium BC. The Harappan civilization was in ruins by the
time the Aryans showed up, having declined 5000 YBP.
Dating of events in the Mahabharata is put by all sources at 5100 YBP. As Hindu culture is ahistoric in terms
of dates and events, no one knows when these events took place.
The Aryan Invasion Theory was used by Hitler to commit genocide. Theres no evidence that this is true or that
the Nazis cared much about it. At any rate, the Nazis used Aryan to mean Germanic.
Max Muller, one of the originators of the AMT, was hired by the British to erase Indian history. Why
would the British bother to do that? Its ridiculous.
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Rejection of the Aryan

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The Aryan Migration Theory:

Last Word
Why the Rig Vedas Cannot

Overlap with the Indus Valley
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170 responses to Hindutva Crazies on the Dating

of the Rig Vedas
Dirty Bull
March 15, 2011 at 9:13 AM
The Latin for bronze is aes, very similar to ayas.
Circumstantial evidence linking the Aryans to the bronze age and a Eurasian homeland, since the homeland would be
equidistant from Italy/India.
Reply
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Wade in MO
March 15, 2011 at 2:33 PM
Im not exactly sure what it is supposed to mean, but supposedly it puts an early date on the Vedas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton#History
Cotton was first cultivated in the Old World 7,000 years ago (5th4th millennia BC), by the inhabitants of the Indus
Valley Civilization, which covered a huge swath of the northwestern part of the Indian subcontinent, comprising today
parts of eastern Pakistan and northwestern India. The Indus cotton industry was well developed and some methods
used in cotton spinning and fabrication continued to be used until the modern industrialization of India. Well before
the Common Era, the use of cotton textiles had spread from India to the Mediterranean and beyond.
My guess is that by saying that there is no cotton they think they are proving that they must have been written before
cotton cultivation started 7000 years ago.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
March 15, 2011 at 2:37 PM
Thats truly insane. The Vedas were written 3000-3500 YBP. There was no writing in Indian 7000 YBP!
Reply
Wade in MO
March 15, 2011 at 2:45 PM
Thats truly insane
So is this
The Tajmahal is Tejomahalay A Hindu Temple
http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/taj_oak.html
Reply
Robert Lindsay
March 15, 2011 at 2:50 PM
Yes, thats nuts, right? Claiming that the Taj Majal is a Hindu temple? Bizarre. That cant possibly be true.
Matt
March 15, 2011 at 3:06 PM
If they were saying that it was built on the site of a Hindu temple, I might give it serious consideration long
enough to look it up in a legitimate reference source. Stuff like that happened quite often in India and
elsewhere. But there is absolutely no question that the building that we know was built by a Muslim
Moghul ruler in a style typical of Islamic India and Persia. The article claims that the Om symbol appears in
the Taj. I dont know if its true, but what if it is? Its a matter of historical record that many Moghul rulers
tended to be as syncretist as it was possible to be while still identifying as Muslims. One of them (Babar, I
think) actually seriously explored creating his own religion.
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In short, youre right. Whoever wrote that is a liar. Or psychotic. Or a psychotic liar.
Robert Lindsay
March 15, 2011 at 3:34 PM
Whoa wait a minute! They are not saying it is built on the site of a Hindu temple, they are saying that it
*is* a Hindu temple?! WTF man. Thats so whack LOL.
Harry S
March 16, 2011 at 2:33 AM
Typical Hindu nonsense. According to them, the Kaaba is also a Hindu temple and Muslims worship
Shiva.
*facepalm*
Rajeev
February 1, 2012 at 2:05 AM
Recent studies indicate that there exists in Northern India dried bed of a very large river that ( again tests have
proved ) commenced drying up around 2600BC and was dried out by 1900 BC . Also along the dried bed of this
river hundreds of so called Indus Valley Civilization settlements have been discovered. Other scientific proofs
have indicated that this dried up river is indeed the Saraswati river of the Veda and the Mahbharata . As a
positive date of the time period when this river dried out has been obtained through scientific methodology ,
one can safely use this evidence of the Saraswati river and state with confidence that the Rig Vedas was
composed several centuries PRIOR to 2600BC . The Aryan invasion theory is also laid to rest as the ARYAN
civilization was none other than the Indus Valley Civilization , which after the drying up of the Saraswati,
shifted to the Gangetic Basin from around 1900 BC .
Reply
Robert Lindsay
Bla bla bla bla Sarasvati Bla bla bla Vedas Bla bla bla 1900 BC Bla bla bla river dried up Bla bla bla.
Rupert
The Aryans were there before the Indus valley civilization and after that too is a conflicting statement
because. there is no statement in Veda talks about this civilization. Man with IQ can understand this. And
there is no evidnece that the Indus valley people were there when Saraswathi dried up.. That clearly means
that Aryans came there before it dried up. And in the rig veda period itself it got dried up. So the rig veda
completion is after Saraswathi river. so after BC1900 only the compilation was over. Problem solved.
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Param Vyas
January 30, 2013 at 11:58 AM
We must never muddle up the concept of the language and the concept of a script. Are there not people who
are illiterate in England? Do they not speak English?
Vedas were written down much later because the script was invented later. The vedas were passed down the
generations as songs. That is why they are written in meter that is apt for singing. It makes them much harder
to trace.
Thus, even when we accept that the scipts appear around 3000-3500 ybp it does not conclusively put the top
ceiling on their composition.
Reply
Ajay Sharma
February 3, 2013 at 11:26 PM
Hello Robert,
I would love to give you a point by point reply to every question you have brought up.
However, I would like to state that it is clear that you seem fairly biased and that you automatically equate any
disagreement with the
mainstream dating as being a hindutva crazy.
The Saraswati River- If you are interested in this topic, I suggest you read The Lost River by Michel Danino
for an impeccably researched
book on the significance of the Saraswati on the dating of the Rig Veda and Rig Vedic Peoples.
The saraswati river is very important in dating the rig veda because it is clear that the authors almost deified
the river becuase its mighty
waters were the sustaining life force of the vedic culture and people. The Nadi Stuti Sukta of the Rig Veda
CLEARLY lists the Rivers of the
Indus Valley moving WEST to EAST- Ganga, yamuna,Saraswati,sutudri, Parusni,Vitasta,Arjikiya, and
Susoma. Therefore, the earliest references
to the Saraswati ARE NOT to the Helmand in Afghanistan as you falsey claimed. The rivers are clearly
described in order from West to east.
Even western scholars agree that this description is from one of the oldest mandalas (books) of the Rig Veda.
Leading hydrologists and
Geologists (Robert Raikes, R.D. Oldham, Marie Agnes- Courty,A.K. Grover, Peter Clift, M.A. Geyh, D.
Ploethner) from all over the world
utilitizing multi spectral imaging and remote sensing (from NASAs Landsat amongst other satellites)
technologies have determined that the
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terminus ad quem (latest possible date) for the drying up of the Saraswati was 1900 B.C. However this process
(caused by tectonic events) was
thought to be gradual from around 2600 BC to 1900 BC. And if you look at a map of most of the ancient
archeological sites in India, they fall
along the dried up Saraswati River. This is further supported by radiometric dating done on the paleochanels
by BARC scientists. The Rig Veda
clearly decribes the Saraswati as the mighty river which flows like a deluge from the mountains to the sea.
It is a fact that the Rig
Vedic culture flourished while the river was mighty and declined along with the river. Therefore, at the very
least the Rig Veda was composed
well before 2600 B.C.
Pyramids- I would never claim that the Vedic people built the pyramids however it is a fact that the Sulba
Sutras show a clear understanding
of Pythogaras theorem as well as calculus (millenia before Newton the founder of Calculus!)
Astronomy- It is a fact that the vedic poeple had an extemely advanced knowledge of astronomy as well as
obsessively recording astronomic
events. The location of Dhruva (the pole star) in the decribed celestial mansion, as well as the fact that the
vernal equinox is placed in
the Mrigashira constellation are but two of the many astronomical examples in the Rig Veda that point to a
date before 4000 B.C. This has
been calculated by the same software used by N.A.S.A. Read this article by John Brug- he uses astronomical
events to date the Ancient
Egyptian Dynasties- http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/ahist/astrdat.pdf
Iron- Iron is also very indicative of the antiquity of the Rig Veda. Ayas means metal in Sanskrit not necesarrily
Iron. Hence Pingala Ayas
or red metal for copper. Furthermore, Possehl and Rissman (1992) have radiocarbon dated slag and other
evidence of Iron working as far back
as 1679 B.C. (3210 years before present) as far south as Ramapuram, Andhra Pradesh- again bringing into
doubt the theory that Aryan invaders
brought the knowledge of Iron to India. Stuiver and Reimer (1993) have also radiocarbon dated Iron slag and
related evidence from strata
belonging to 1687 B.C. (about 3280 years before present) as far south as Veerapuram Andhra Pradesh. Tewari
has radiocarbon dated Iron slag
from strata from 2100 B.C. (over 3600 years before present) but lets ignore these because he is but an Indain
Scientist. Either way the
evidence is highly indicative that advanced metallurgy already existed in India and that it was hardly from An
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Aryan invasion circa 1500 B.C.

I am sure more evidence will be unerathed in coming years further supporting this position.
IVC- There is no reason to claim that the IVC had already declined by the Vedic Times. These cultures are
probably one and the same. This is
evidenced by the priest- king statue where the subject is wearing a vedic yagnopavitam which brahmins to
this day (myself included) are
proud to wear. He also has his eyes half closed in meditation stylistically this is seen throughout Indian art.
Look up the Pashupati seal in
which the Lord Shiva is depicted with three heads seated in yogic posture as pashupati (lord of all animals).
Another Indus valley seal shows
a young boy uprooting a tree from which two human figures emerge. This episode is known as Yamalarjuna
and is a depiction of Lord Krishnathe two people coming out of the tree are cursed Gandharavas or celestial nymphs- Nalakubara and Manigriva.
This is an EXACT depiction look
at the seal and read the story! Look up the crystal clear shiva lingas found at both kalibangan and Lothal both
cities of the IVC. Also at
lothal, mohenjodaro and kalibangan vedic fire altars constructed to precise vedic specifications have been
found.In addition to the swastika,
innumerable other Hindu motifs have been found at IVC sites. The same exact weights and measurements
used by the IVC have been found in
perpetuity until the time of Chandragupta Maurya ( 300 B.C. I belive- contemporaneous to Megas
Alexandras). Even the same IVC symbols and
motifs are used on Coins by Mauryan rulers.The ekashringa or one horned boar is clearly found on many IVC
seals and is one of the dasavatara
(10 forms) of Vishnu.
I would love to hear a reply from you based on the evidence I have givenHow can you possibly refute the
antiquity and perpetuity of Indian
culture given all of this evidence?
And this isnt even bringing genetics into account. Linguistics may be interpreted but genetics dont lie. It is a
FACT that Haplogroup R1a
originated in South Asia- Even mainstream western scientists agree with this.
Stephen Oppenhiemer (of Oxford) one of the worlds most eminent geneticists clearly states that- South Asia
is logically the ultimate origin
of M17 and his ancestors; and sure enough we find highest rates and greatest diversity of the M17 line in
Pakistan, India, and eastern Iran,
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and low rates in the Caucasus. M17 is not only more diverse in South Asia than in Central Asia but diversity
characterizes its presence in
isolated tribal groups in the south, thus undermining any theory of M17 as a marker of a male Aryan Invasion
of India.
Study of the geographical distribution and the diversity of genetic branches and stems again suggests that
Ruslan, along with his son M17,
arose early in South Asia, somewhere near India, and subsequently spread not only south-east to Australia but
also north, directly to Central
Asia, before splitting east and west into Europe and East Asia.
While I am not making the mistake of equating R1a with Vedic culture- this is certainly very telling. Look up
Indo Aryan Superstate in
Mittani The Indo Aryans were as far out as Asia Minor. They worshipped our gods- Agni, Indra, Mitra,
Varuna- Thier names are clearly Aryan!
They even use aeka instead of the Iranian aeva placing them in the vicinity of the Indo Aryans Proper.
Your comment that there was no writing in India 7000 BP maybe true but you are forgetting that Sanskrit is a
sacerdotal language which was
impeccably preserved.
It may not mean much to you but in High School I took Latin for 4 years and Studied A.P. latin and translated
all of Julius Casears De Bello
Galici ( of the Gallic Wars). And I grew up learning, reciting, and speaking sanskrit (because I am a brahmin).
Knowing both languages I can
attest that Sanskrit is a far more archaic from of an IE language than Latin and retains many archaic features
such as retroflex stops,
bilabial fricatives, pitch accents, trimoraic vowels, retroflex lateral approximants, and diphthongs. The
inflection and usage of the
subjective mood is also indicative of a much more arachic language in my eyes.
What say you to all of this?
Sincerely,
Ajay Sharma
Reply
Robert Lindsay
Nothing. I simply reject everything that you wrote, thats all. I support the Aryan Incursion Theory,
primarily on the impeccable linguistic grounds that support it. If you reject the AIT, then you must posit an
Out of India Theory for Indo-European, which is obviously absolutely ridiculous.
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Michael Witzel has taken apart the bits on astronomy and the Saraswati River very well. M17 is not IE. M17
goes back all the way to 17,000 YBP. Sure, maybe M17 originated in India 17,000 YBP, but that does negate
the AIT. Also, M17 does not support the OIT, because IE only goes back 8-9,000 YBP. The Aryans had
bronze. The Indians did not have bronze. They brought bronze with them.
The truth is that the AIT is supported by every single serious scholar on the face of the Earth, and the OIT
is supported by none of them. The only humans who believe in the OIT and reject the AIT are Indian
Hindus and their Hindutvadi followers. That ought to tell you something right there that they are simply
wrong.
One of the horrific things about modern day Hindus is that just about every single educated Hindu you
meet is frankly a Hindutvadi fanatic. Theres simply no difference between a Hindutvadi and a Hindu
anymore, with a few exceptions here and there.
Ajay Sharma
Your response of nothing and the fact that you failed to explain even a bit of the evidence I have given
clearly shows your inability to
consider any position other than your own. As scientists we must strive to be objective rather than
subjective as you clearly are. This is
certainly not how advances in science and knowledge are attained. On the contrary, this is how incorrect
and outdated ideas such as
spontaneous generation, phlogiston theory, vitalism, phrenology, and the idea that the world is flat were
perpetuated, impeding the progress
of science and delving into the realm of quackery. If the IVC was completely unrelated to Vedic Culture as
you and Witzel (who is a
philologist- not an archeologist) claim why are Vedic Fire altars (built to very precise specifications), shiva
lingas,and steatite seals
with hindu mythology doing in every IVC city?
You said I support the AIT, primarily on the impeccable linguistic grounds that support it. I will
demonstrate to you that there are many
internationally renowned linguists and philologists from all over the world who hold positions contrary to
your esteemed Michael Witzel.
First of all since you are claiming that linguistics is the best evidence for the AIT (when in fact this is the
weakest evidence to cite if
you are trying to support AIT), it would do you a lot of good to study the very history of linguistics.
The very founders of modern European linguistics ( a la Franz Bopp, Johannes Freidrich, Frits Staal,
Roman Jacobson, Ferdinande de Saussure,
Louis Herbert Gray, Leonard Bloomfield, Carl Abel, George Adler, Jules Bloch) themselves claimed to
have been heavily influenced by Panini
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the Grammarian and Philologist from the 6th Century B.C. who was author of Astadhayi the first treatise
on formal linguistics published by
humanity. It is widely accepted even by European Schoalars that European linguistics was only catalyzed
by Europes contact with the work of
Sanskrit grammarians. In fact, Ferdinand de Saussure ( the founder of modern structural linguistics)
himself claimed that the work of ancient
Indian grammarians significantly influenced his work- and that Panini was his greatest influence. These
are all indisputable facts. Leonard
Bloomfield (the father of American Structuralism) and the esteemed Fritz Staal both cite Panini and
Brthrihari his successor as their
greatest influence- and these are thier own words. Gottlob Frege puts it more explicity directly stating that
without the work of Indian
Grammarians formal linguistics would not exist.
The interesting part of all of this is that Paninni was not even the most accomplished or oldest Vedic
linguist. Paninnis predecessor Yaska
(author of the Nirkuta) lived in the 8th Century B.C. and wrote about such complex linguistic forms as
phenome, morphome, ablaut, pallatalas,
thematic presents, gerundives, aorists, just to name a few. Im sure you will be delighted to learn that Yaska
himself was preceded by
Sakatayana ( who wrote the famous Lksana Shastra) of the the 9th Century B.C. Sakatayana was preceded
by Ghritsamada and Shaunaka of the 11th
and 12th centuries B.C. respectively. The point is that the Vedic people had a complex system of formal
linguistics which was unparalleled
anywhere in the world for about three thousand years until the Europeans discovered it, copied it, and
applied it to various other languages.
Therefore, it is hilarious to assume that the Aryans came to India circa 1500 B.C. bearing Sanskrit- with
such a well developed system of
formal linguistics in India extending to at least 1200 B.C. Furthermore, can you name one European
culture that had a similar system of
linguistics? You cant because the Europeans didnt know what formal linguistics was until the 18th century
when they started studying
Sanskrit. Sure the Ancient Greeks had rhetoric and logic (that too only started around the 4th or 5th
century B.C.) but no knowledge of
formal linguistics.
Asko Parpola an indologist and Professor Emeritus of Indology (itself a highly biased and somewhat racist
discipline) at the University of
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Helinski, Finland has refuted Micael Witzels arguements regarding his opinion on the influence of
substrtum in vedic sanskrit many times. Do
you know what that is and why it is relevant to a debate involving the AIT?
Much of the evidence of dravidian substratum in Vedic used by Witzel was compiled by Thomas Burrow
(Boden Professor of Sanskrit at Oxford).
By the end of his career he had redacted almost 380 of the 500 words he claimed were evidence of a
dravidian substratum in Sanskrit. This
shines light on the sketchy evidence used by Witzel for making this arguement ( in my opinion one of his
strongest arguements). Furthermore,
Paul Thieme (Professor of Indology at Gottingen, Breslau, Yale, and later the University of Tubingen) has
clearly stated that the dravidian
etymologies for evidence of substratum in Sanskrit were wrong and he gives appropriate etymologies for
these words (the few which burrow
didnt take back) in Sanskrit or Indo Aryan. Keep in mind Paul Thieme was one of the worlds foremost
linguists and Indologists considered one
of the last great indologists was he a hindutva crazy too? This argument is further supported by
Mayhoffer himself an expert in this field.
Hans Heinrich Hock the Professor Emeritus of Comparitive Linguistics and Sanskrit ( University of
Illinois Urbana Champaign- Ph.d in
Linguistics from Yale) has directly attacked Witzels arguement stating that the various syntactical
developments in Indo Aryan are the result
of Adstratum rather than substrate influences. This has also been supported by Bertil Tikkanen of the
University of Helinski in Finland.
About retroflexion Tikkanen takes the following position- in view of the strictly areal implications of
retroflexion and the occurrence of
retroflexes in many early loanwords, it is hardly likely that Indo-Aryan retroflexion arose in a region that
did not have a substratum with
retroflexes.
DO you think all of these scientists ( most of them at the top of thier fields and none of them bieng Indian
or hindu) are part of the
hindutva conspiracy? What do they have to gain?
Also you said Witzel takes apart the arguments on the Saraswati very well Care to elaborate? How can he
refute radiometric dating when he
is but a philologist not a hydrologist, archeologist, or a paleohydrology expert like the scientists I have
cited?
The hilarious part of the arguments of AIT supporters is that they are scrambling to find evidence for the
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Pontic-Caspian Steppe hypothesis,

Armenian hypothesis, Kurgan Hypothesis, Anatolian hypthesis, or Bactria- Sogdianan hypothesis without
understanding that Greater India easily
extended past Afghanistan into Modern day Eastern Iran, which is but a few hundred miles from these
locations. I have already shown the Indo
Aryans to be in Asia Minor with An Indo Aryan elite imposing themselves upon the Hurrians and Mittani.
You still didnt reply to the evidence
I cited showing them to use aeka instead of the Iranic Aeva. The kikulli manurscipt of the 14th century
B.C. clearly shows Agni, Indra,
Mitra, and varuna bieng worshipped as well as thier names bieng clearly sanskrit names.
I would love to see what what you have to say to the enormous amounts of evidence I have presented. The
scientists whose arguements I have
cited are some of the worlds foremost experts in their fields that too from many Ivy league schools. Are
they somehow part of the hindutva
conspiracy too? how about you acutally use real scientific evidence to reply to what I have to say instead of
blah blah blah or i refute
your argument
I have been polite but in scientific discourse or debate your opinion or my opinion hardly matters it is clear
concrete proof that matters.
And everyday the evidence is growing that AIT is an outdated and false fabrication. The very name of the
out of india theory itself is
misleading becuase India today is but a small fraction of the great cuultural force it used to be. However it
is a fact that the AIT theory
is losing precedence day by day and will be shelved to the vestiges of pseudoscience and scientific racism.
Lets hear what you have to say Robert I would love to continue this intellectual debate so long as you use
real science and not your opinion
which means nothing to me.
Robert Lindsay
The AIT theory is not losing any adherents at all. 100% of world experts outside of India regard it as simple
fact. Only hacks, kooks and nuts (oh and Indians!) continue to reject this obvious scientific fact, on the
spurious grounds of insane Indian nationalism.
I dont know much about archeology. There may well have been some continuity between IVC and the
later Aryans as the Aryans conquered to abandoned IVC, and it was abandoned, BTW.
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The so-called linguists who reject AIT and instead support OIT are all kooks, nuts, fakes and frauds (oh
and Indians too, I forget!). We have already dealt with their so-called evidence in prior posts. There was no
OIT movement for Indo-European. IE did not begin in India as psycho Indian lunatics insist. No one, but
no one, but no one believes that IE came out of India. No one other than insane Indians.
Also you psycho Hindu fool, I am banning you on the grounds of hostile tone. Now go back to your filthy
Hindu shithole.
Robert Lindsay
Asko Parpola is a looney tune nutcase. You Hindu dogs deserve a racist discipline like Indology. Its
perfect for you because its impossible to study you without turning racist against you because you are so
abhorrent. Most of the linguists you mentioned, especially Hock, support the AIT and reject the OIT.
Dota
Romila Thapur also lists further evidence that the Rig Veda references flora and fauna unfamiliar to the
Harrapans while the latter feature flora and fauna (on their seals) that are unfamiliar to the Rig Veda text.
She lists this as further evidence of an outside incursion into India. Ive got her book around here
somewhere, Ill post a reference if I can.
HS DEEPAK ATREYAS
March 26, 2013 at 12:31 PM
hats off ajay sharma continue you have done great thing, what ever the blal bla historians like robert
lindsey say, the indian knowledge will not vanish they donot know the inherent strength of these vedas
they are all biased historians ,my sincear suggestion to them is come and live in india at different parts of
india then they will realize the true strength of the indian knowledge i.e vedas
deepakhiriyur@gmail.com
Dota-Player
March 15, 2011 at 9:47 PM
A few things need to be said and clarified here seeing as how shocked some of you people are at the intense bullshit
coming out of Hindutva sources.
First
Hindutva scholars are usually a bunch of hatemongers at their core without any actual qualifications who generally
quote dubious sources. The point is not to convince western readers (it would never work) but to dupe Indians living
in the motherland and abroad. These individuals are extremely intellectually dishonest and in a place like India, they
are taken quite seriously. These people play the communal card to consolidate the vote bank for the hard line and
Hindu fascist BJP party. For example, some Hindutvadis have attempted to smear the name of Tipu Sultan by
claiming he oppressed Hindus and Christians. After some looking up, I realized that many of these bogus claims came
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from a highly dubious source called the Malabar manual published in the 18th century by William Logan. The
British would often circulate false reports about Muslim atrocities against Hindus to undermine Indian nationalism.
However, the Hindutvadis have no qualms quoting such a document while also stating how evil the British were.
Since the Hindutvadis were essentially doing the Brits dirty work, no major leader of theirs was ever prosecuted by
the Brits (to my knowledge). Other genuine Indian patriots such as Bhagat Singh, Ram Prasad and Ashfaq were
executed and killed in combat. Gandhi was assasinated by a member of the Hindutva RSS party, which is now the
head organization of the sangh parivar in India.
Heres another amusing article about how the Muslim Qabaa was originally a Hindu temple
http://krishnajkaaba.blogspot.com/
Notice that the article bears the typical Hindutva touch by failing to quote any sources or using any references. Again,
this is for the Indians benefit, not westerners.
The article claims that the Om symbol appears in the Taj. I dont know if its true, but what if it is? Its a matter of
historical record that many Moghul rulers tended to be as syncretist as it was possible to be while still identifying as
Muslims. One of them (Babar, I think) actually seriously explored creating his own religion.
That was Akbar, who created a hybrid Hindu/Islam religion called deen-e-ilahi The religion wasnt very popular, but
showed the Moguls commitment to pluralism and tolerance. Aurangzeb was the exception.
Now for Roberts post
couple of points:
1) I am not sure why Hindutvas want to push the dating the Rig Vedas back so far. Can anyone help me here?
You partially answered your own question in the following 2 paragraphs, however, remember the Hindutva rule of
thumb: Hinduism IS indigenous to India. So even if there was an Aryan migration into India, they were merely balled
over by this noble religion and converted into it, rather than introducing it.
2) The Egyptian pyramids had to have been built using ancient Indian mathematical knowledge.
Another absurd claim, but there is a method to their madness. Hindutva initially began as a highly xenophobic and
fascist ideology that has in the last decade also become extremely chauvinistic. It is not uncommon for these people to
now take credit for the heritages of other peoples. Claims such as the Indians helped the Egyptians build the pyramids
and that the Pre-Islamic Arabs were also Hindus (thus cementing the Hindutva view that Islam was opposed to
Hinduism from the very start!) are now fairly common place in Hindutva literature.
3) The Aryan Invasion Theory was used by Hitler to commit genocide.
This last point is a shocking example of Hindutva duplicity. Its common knowledge that the architects of the
Hindutva, savarkar and Moonje were openly supportive of Nazism. In fact, Moonje even personally met up with
Musolini in 1931 to get a first hand tutorial in fascism. This pro nazi policy has led some political analysts in recent
decades to comment on the strange alliance between Hindutva and zionism.
Im going to post again tomorrow if I have the time. Ill post on Muslim Indian nationalism in your other thread.
Indian Muslim nationalists have their share of crazies too, amusing, in a pathetic sort of way.
Sorry for the long post and please excuse any typos, as its a little late =p
Reply
Rupert
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April 7, 2011 at 4:36 PM

The Rigveda dates are really questionable. Its written in Sanskrit. But initially sanskrit doesnt have any scripts to keep
it in written form. So it is transferred from one generation to the next generation in the oral form. And the
geographical notes clearly says that the developer moved from west Afghanistan to northwest India. It clearly shows
the invasion of some group from Europe to India. The Sanskrit language had so-many derived words from European
origin languages. (Example: word warda_ha, duo do, three tri. septum sapta, Gen Gen, Book Pusthak,
Jwel joli, mid math, etc)
Early Rigveda is not Austro-asiatic (south Asian) nature. But the later Rigveda has so many derived words from
Dravidian languages. And in the later version the style is greatly influenced by the Tamil book Tholkappiyam
(tholkaappiyam). The scholars suggest that 7th century BC may be the Tholkappiyams date. So the latter Rigveda
cannot be dated before 7th century BC.
There is a strong reason why the Hindutva wants to push the date back. They want to prove that the Hindu is the
native religion of India. There are many works like Tholkappiyam dont talk about Hindu Gods. Those books mostly
favour the natural worships. But the Hindutva want to say On the time of mentioned natural worship started Hindu
had come to existence already so it is necessary for them to push the date back. And Rigveda is the oldest religious
book. This is why they want to push it back.
And the mythical stories like Ramayana & Mahabaratha has no historical evidence. But if the Ramayana &
Mahabaratha is proved as a great lie. Then total Hindutva will become baseless. So they wanted to make it
pre-historic. So pushing back the date of Rigveda as before as possible will definitely help to do that.
And Rigveda is one of the oldest book for Sanskrit. Sanskrit is also a non Dravidian language of India. And Sanskrit
people wanted to show Sanskrit is older than the Dravidian language and the Dravidian people wanted to show
Dravidian is the oldest language. This race is to make themselves as the native people of India. Sanskrit people claims
Tamil (purest Dravidian language in India) is derived from Sanskrit. But the Tamil has its grammar book,
Tholkappiyam dated 7th 3rd century BC. That clearly states that Tamil has come to a well grown farm before 7th
3rd century BC. And Tholkappiyam is from the 3rd Tamil Congress (3rd Tamil Sangam) there are some notes or
statements in old Tamil poetical works talking about the date and rulers of the 1st & 2nd Tamil Sangam (There is no
material evidence has been found favoring this statements.). If it is proved to be true then the date, when the Tamil
obtained developed nature, will be pushed 2-7 millennium before the current date. So to make others believe, the
Sanskrit peoples have to prove that Sanskrit had obtained its developed form well before Tamil and hence Sanskrit
was the base for Tamil to born and develop. But this claim can be considered rubbish as Tamil & early Rigvedic
Sanskrit has no similarities. And the later scripts Indo-Aryan nature. Indirectly it can be called Dravidian-Aryan
(Tamil-Aryan) nature.
The Sanskrit lovers (major Hindutva people) win the support of others in the name of God first. And then they did it
with a famous quote Sanskrit is the language of God. There are many people believe that God has taught language to
mankind and all other languages are derived from that. So if the Gods language is Sanskrit then the first language
would be Sanskrit. So if Sanskrit or the oldest Sanskrit work is dated after other native Indian languages like Tamil
(purest Dravidian). Then no one will believe in Hindutva. This is why they are always trying to push the date as before
as possible
Reply
Rupert
April 8, 2011 at 3:34 AM
I tried posting similar replies in several blogs which tries to push the date back before the correct date. But nothing has
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worked out. I thought my little research would never be considered. But at last it got posted. Thanks for posting my
reply. Here are some more evidence to predict the proper date of the Rigveda
1. Aryan invasion(in India) also suggests that Aryans might have migrated to India from northwest. This doesnt mean
nobody was there at the time of migration. So can be called as a invasion.
2: There is a strong evidence in the Rigveda for the migration from north west. (The geographical information given in
Rigveda changes from the beginning of the Book to the end in a sequence supporting the migration from the
northwest.
3.The migration derived from the Rigveda cannot be date back before Indus valley civilization. Because then it should
be dated before B.C. 7000. The language spoken by the present people at that place is a Indo-Aryan(Sanskrit) derived
language. So if it is dated back before B.C.7000. The period of Sanskrit derived language speaking people will become
B.C.7000 to till date. But the Indus people (B.C.7000 B.C.1300) had spoken a language which is almost clueless till
date. This suggests there would not be any overlap in time. This clearly shows the mistake in the prediction of any one
of the date. Carbon aging calculations proves the Indus valley period. So the mistake would only happen in the date of
the migration. It can only be dated back before and cannot be date back before Indus valley civilization. (From that it
is confirmed that Rigveda is after Indus valley civilization. I am putting forward the further points on the basis of this
fact).
4. Indus valley civilization itself has crossed the entire Bronze age (3300 1300 BCE, source: http://en.wikipedia.org
/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilization). If the migration happened after the Indus valley civilization as mentioned in point
3, Rigveda can not be dated back before B.C 1300.
5. There are several evidence which suggests the period of Indus valley and the Rigveda cannot be overlapped.
(A)There is no reference in Rigveda about the big cities or important places found in Indus valley. (B)There is no
evidence in Rigveda about the Indus peoples architectural skills. (C)There is no evidence in Rigveda about the tubed
drainage found in Indus valley. (D)There is no evidence in Rigveda about the. (E) There is no evidence in Rigveda
about water reservoir or ponds found in Indus valley. (D) There is no evidence in Rigveda about water Urn burials
found in Indus valley.
6. The Rigveda people might not even know about Indus valley as the civilization had been destroyed without a trace.
This suggest the migration could happen long after the Indus valley civilization.
7. The Rigvedic people might not even know about cottons. This could happen if they had an alternate source.
Reply
Mayank Sharma
July 30, 2011 at 4:21 AM
It seems that the writer of the above articles has lost his analytical skills and he is biased with AMT He is possessed by
AMT AND over looks all the facts presented by Hindu scholars. This gentleman is low at IQ level. He should thorougly
study Indian religious scriptures and help himself to over come this narrow minded and biased attitude. He would do
really good, if he comes to India and spend some time here with enlightened souls.
Reply
Rupert
August 19, 2011 at 12:08 AM
The people who dont have analytical skill should not blame others. Please give evidence and then comment. I am
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an Indian have studied Indian religious scriptures also. The low IQ man cannot get the science support in finding
out the truth. And the man with narrow minded and the biased attitude will not listen to a man speaking with
evidence. The biased people will not think beyond which they were bound (here it is religious bound). The narrow
minded people will not accept others, even though they come with strong reason or evidence.
The people read this blog will clearly understand who has analytical skill and who dont have, who has IQ and who
dont have, who is broad minded and unbiased and who is not.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
August 19, 2011 at 3:41 AM
Thx for the compliment, Mr. Indian.
Reply
Vinod
July 19, 2012 at 9:13 AM
When someone told mr Lindsay about Sarasvati river here is what he have to say :Bla bla bla bla Sarasvati Bla bla bla Vedas Bla bla bla 1900 BC Bla bla bla river dried up Bla bla bla.
No i suppose MR. Lindsay is showing his analytical skills here in the fav language of AIT scholars (AIT:- An
idiots theory) the PIE. lol idiots are writing blogs these days
Reply
Abhishek Tiwari
December 8, 2012 at 9:06 PM
i agree with you mr. sharma !
Reply
Robert Lindsay
All right, I am banning you.
Reply
Brahma
Dear Mr.Lindsay i suppose youd believe everything that can be collaborated with some evidence
abstract or otherwise. Please dont take offense to what Im about to say, its not my culture to hurl abuse or
insult at anyone per se, so I apologies in advance if it would even slightly hurt your thoughts or perspective
.. Had their been no medical advancement in DNA profiling and testing to confirm paternity of an
individual, your only way to know that you were born of a single father wouldve been your mother you
just cant call anyone Father/Daddy . its the mother who points you to a person and tells you that hes
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your daddy. And do you ask your mother for evidence you just believe outright and start calling him
Daddy .. my point here is not to tell you that you should believe everything you possibly can with the help
your five senses eyes to see, nose- to smell, mouth to taste, ears to hear and hands to feel. But
yet with all these mechanisms and the latest advancements in science I suppose you still believe what your
mom said and has continued to call that person your father and Im sure he is. Seeing or hearing or
touching does not produce truth . its a merely complicated reality that manifests itself in the most
unappreciated moments provided it is sought. When you comment about a culture or a civilization that is
not known to you or your near dear ones .. rather than pressing your perspective on others you should
venture out and about to seek the truth only and only then you will see the real deal. You say that youre
an Indian, I have my own reasons to believe that youre not, even if you are youd most probably be a half
bred Indian living abroad thinking the best place on earth is far away from India . to know India and the
people who lived there, the civilization you should first know the true spirit of India your best bet is to
spent some quality time with a self-realized soul somewhere deep inside the Himalayas would be a
better start. Having said that Self REALIZATION is not something you can find in a Walmart store, its
beyond your understanding .. but if you seek truth with an open mind, you shall receive!. Man was able to
send himself to moon because he could see it from earth, so to say if you can see it, you can achieve it.
Good luck
Manoj Pashte
January 12, 2012 at 5:49 AM
Robert first of all get your facts clear.
1)Aryan is not a race it was only stated by Max Muller later he also retracted from the same. Arya means a righteous
and a noble man and Arya means a righteous and a noble women. The terms are widely used in the sanskrit language
and written in many scriptures.
2)The Saraswati river existed and was in full flow from about 9000 yrs ago from today due to earthquakes the river
dissapeared.
3)Mohenjodaro was never destroyed by war but it was abandoned due to shortage of water as the river subsided due to
upheavels in the crust.
4)The Rig Veda does not find mention of any city lying in the far north of Europe or also in the mediterenian. This is
proof enough that the people of India are not intruders as has been shown to be by the European history writers.
Will write back
5)The astronomical proofs in the Rig Veda have to be taken into account.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
January 12, 2012 at 6:37 AM
Yadda yadda yadda yadda.
Reply
Atul Kanagat
January 28, 2013 at 3:15 PM
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That shows a high IQ, I suppose.

Reply
Rajeev
Hello Manoj,
Why are we wasting time trying to convince this ( Lindsay Lohan ) obviously bigoted and biased pseudointellectual. His IQ is the level of a school boy ,,,, which is evident from his childish ramblings,,, a ploy no doubt
he adopted when he could not find any reply ,,,, if he had any intention of joining in a civil debate he would not
have resorted to this deliberately insulting/ childish language.
Anyway,,, I came across a scholarly analysis by Mr , Michael Danino ( The Lost River ISBN 9780143068648 ,
Penguin Books ) which makes it clear that the Indus Valley Civilization was actually also the Saraswati Civilization
, as is evident by several hundreds of Harrapan like cities found scattered around the dried river bed located in
Haryana, Northern Rajasthan , Cholistan ( Pakistan ) and Gujarat ( North of the Rann of Kutch ) . As this river
dried out between 2600 to 1900 BC , the Vedas that refer to a fast flowing Saraswati and which have correctly
mentioned the location of this river as being between Yamuna and Sutlej, must have been composed around
3000BC , in INDIA. However the theory that Aryans went OUT OF INDIA , just does not hold water . Infact
archeologists are puzzled by the sudden appearance of the Indus Valley civilization around 3500 BC,,, they could
not find signs of the cities being inhabited prior to this date,,, as they have found in the case of the Egyptian and
Sumerian Cities.
To me this is because the people who founded the Indus Valley Civilization were none other than the Aryans and
they migrated into India around 3600 BC ( not at 1900 to 1500 BC as has been believed ) . This explains the
numerous similarities between the Indus Valley Artifacts and the present form of Hinduism , ( which has
developed after the Saraswati river dried out the Saraswati Aryans migrated further east and settled in the Gangetic
plain .)
I think that the synthesis of data from the various scientific disciplines , such as geology, climatology and
archeology are now making it difficult for anyone to prove that the dried out river bed of a large river in Northern
River is not the mythical river that the Aryans so loved the Saraswati . And this provides the proof that the
Vedas and the Mahabharata were composed at a much earlier date than that which was thought in the past.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
Ok youre banned elephant jockey.
Reply
Rupert
There are evidences there that Indus valley people were living on the banks of the river till BC.2000. But
no materials were unearthed from the river. that indicates. The river wasnt dried up. And the rig veda is
not saying about the people of Indus valley. If the Rigveda was composed before rig veda it would say
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about Indus Valley people. At the least it would leave a clue on this. Rig veda talks about the drying of
saraswathi river too. This indicates Rig Veda had been completed after Saraswathi river dried up. And even
now the people in that area are speaking the sanskrit derived languages. Before and after Indus valley
civilization aryan lived or sanskrit people live or the people who composed Rigveda lived. But they didnt
know about Indus Valley people is an conflicting statement. The people having true intellectuals can
understand this.
& Coming to Mahabharata. It was written after Ramayana. If Rama lived too early he wouldnt have
needed to build bridge to reach SriLanka. Even 60 years back people were used to go Vivekanda rock,
which is inside the see now, by walk. Still many people were able to swim across the sea to reach Srilanka
from India. They are able to do it because. The place is not actually very deep. This says Ramayana is
written much later. & Ramayana doesnt talk about the ports, harbours & capitals of South Indian Kings
like Pandyan. What ever the names given to the Rude man (Asuras) in Ramayana. We can find a great
Tamil king with the same name. Ramayana is a big story made to dominate the South Indians, especially
who spoke Tamil in the name of Asuras. & the Mythology itself is saying Mahabharata itself is several
generations later to Ramayana. And the linguistic research says that it was composed at 1st century AD.
And one more sad thing is people are claiming that sanskrit is the first language of the world. And all the
other languages were born as the people pronounce sanskrit words incorrect. And this is never ever
supported by Linguistic research
Vinod
July 19, 2012 at 9:14 AM
Do u know anything else other than banning lol idiot
Robert Lindsay
July 19, 2012 at 9:55 AM
Yes I know how to ban you, slumdog.
Good God, another retarded Hindu intellectual. Pitiful!
Manoj Pashte
Hello Rajeev
I must agree with you that the language which Robert uses is unparliamentary. I would like to point out to you that
Aryan is not a race as I have alredy specified in my earlier note.
According to the European Indologists the identification of Sandrocottus (325 B.C.) of the Greeks with Chandragupta
Maurya by Sir Jones was considered to be the sheet anchor and based on this assumption, a chronology of Indian
history was constructed. We have to remember that there are 2 Chandragupta in Indian history. One is Chandragupta
Maurya of the Maurya dynasty and the other Chandragupta is of the Gupta dynasty. The identification of
Sandrocottus (325 B.C.) of the Greeks with Chandragupta Maurya by Sir Jones is incorrect for many reasons. The
foremost being that the Greek chronicles do not mention of Chanakya the Guru of Chandragupta, Bindusar (Son) and
Ashok(Grandson) of Chandragupta.
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The Greek records mention Xandramas and Sandrocyptus as the kings immediately before and after Sandrocottus.
These names in any way are not phonetically similar to Mahapadma Nanda and Bindusar, who were the predecessor
and successors of Chandragupta Maurya, respectively. However, if Sandrocottus refers to Chandragupta of the Gupta
dynasty, the Xandramas reckons to be his predecessor Chandrashree alias Chandramas and Sandrocyptus to be
Samudragupta.
Coming back to the age of the Rig Veda
Hymn XL. Indra. Surya. Atri.
1. COME thou to what the stones have pressed, drink Soma, O thou Somas Lord,
Indra best Vrtra-slayer Strong One, with the Strong.
2 Strong is the stone, the draught is strong, strong is this Soma that is pressed,
Indra, best Vrtra-slayer, Strong One with the Strong.
3 As strong I call on thee the Strong, O Thunder-armed, with various aids,
Indra, best Vrtra-slayer, Strong One with the Strong.
4 Impetuous, Thunderer, Strong, quelling the mighty, King, potent, Vrtra-slayer, Soma-drinker,
May he come hither with his yoked Bay Horses; may Indra gladden him at the noon libation.
5 O Surya, when the Asuras descendant Svarbhanu, pierced thee through and through with darkness,
All creatures looked like one who is bewildered, who knoweth not the place where he is standing.
6 What time thou smotest down Svarbhanus magic that spread itself beneath the sky, O Indra,
By his fourth sacred prayer Atri discovered Surya concealed in gloom that stayed his function.
7 Let not the oppressor with this dread, through anger swallow me up, for I am thine, O Atri.
Mitra art thou, the sender of true blessings: thou and King Varuna be both my helpers.
8 The Brahman Atri, as he set the press-stones, serving the Gods with praise and adoration,
Established in the heaven the eye of Surya, and caused Svarbhanus magic arts to vanish.
9 The Atris found the Sun again, him whom Svarbhanu of the brood
Of Asuras had pierced with gloom. This none besides had power to do.
An interesting chronological marker is the solar-eclipse described in RgVeda5:40:5-9(given above is the full hymn of
book 5 of the Rig Veda). It is described as a central, non-total eclipse which took place on the afternoon on the
Kurukshetra meridian on a given day after summer solstice. The interesting thing about this event, vis-a-vis an
argument, is that it does not involve measuring angles, there is no scope of error, and it involves the Sun, the
identification of which can not be questioned for any reason at all by the conservative school. There is only one day
that
satisfies that condition described 26th July 3928BC
There are many more proofs but later about that Rajeev. Robert once again the proofs glaring at you are ignored by
you. May you find the right path and may God bless you.
Reply
Xera
It does not matter what he says, the main point is that India is a shithole thats not going to go anywhere in the
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near future.
Reply
Manoj Pashte
Xera dont talk besides the point involved. We are talking about the rig Veda. You are a non entity to say
anything about India what you think is of no importance.
Reply
Xera
No thats the point that Robert was trying to make in relation to India, and cmon you & I know India will
never amount to anything much in the future.
Jaipal
June 2, 2012 at 6:18 AM
@Xera,
Its funny how Xera who comes from shithole Egypt talks so much about other races.
Egyptians are nothing. Xera talks about strenght and what not but look at Egypts
history of 2000 plus years of foreign domination. He even admits that hes a mutt,
a product of multiple rape by outsiders! He should have some shame!
But as you pointed out quite correctly, hes a low-IQ sand-nigger with sand for brains!
One of their ex-Premiers, Anwar Sadat, observing Egypts history sarcastically
remarked that he was the first genuine Egyptian to come rule Egypt in more than 2000
years!!
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Jaipal
June 2, 2012 at 6:26 AM
@Xera,
India has developed its own nuclear and missile programmes! Something your shithole
Egypt has never done. We just tested a 5000 km missile that could nuke your shithole
Egypt if we wanted to! A couple years back we sent a mooncraft to the moon!
What the fuck has Egypt done?? You guys are fuckin beggars before America living on
American financial handouts just so your pathetic country can stay afloat! LOL LOL!!!
What have you guys got to show after 40 fuckin years of handouts, huh??
Have you become a developed country?? Egypt will go nowhere, though India might
if its governance improves.
Now, go to your sandbox and fuck your camel and drink camel piss!
Your religion is PISS-SLAM
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Rupert
Forgetting linguistic research find outs. And interpreting the text as they wanted is a big fault.
Reply
Manoj Pashte
linguistics is not the only proof. there are other proofs which you tend to overlook
you talk about the invasion of the city of Mohenjodaro by the Aryans (by the way Aryan is not a race). In fact only
about 37 skeletons of the period to which you attribute the invasion have been unearthed in the excavation of the
walled city of Mohenjodaro. For your information all the 37 skeletons unerthed were observed to be properly
buried NOT MASSACRED. The absence of arrow heads and weapons show that there was no war. Why is this fact
not taken note of?
the river Euphrates or for that matter any other river from the mediterranian or from northern europe does not
find mention in the Rig Veda. The land which is described in the Rig Veda is the land from the Himalays to the
Indian ocean in the south and the land from Iran to east India. The religious places of the followers of the Sanatan
Dharma are in India and not out side in Europe.
the city of Dwarka has also been unearthed in the Gulf of Khambat (Cambay). the carbon dating of the artefacts
discovered goes back to 8000 yrs.
Ashva in sanskrit means horse and the word occurs many times in the Rig Veda.
Ayas in sanskrit means iron
Modern science also clearly authenticates the proof.
Reply
Rupert
Yes. It cannot be called as invasion. In first post Ive said it.. It is migration. And thank you for reminding me about
horse. In fact there were no symbols found with horse. in Indus valley civilization. But at the initial stage the symbol
of Oxs were modified to look alike horse. Recently it was found that those symbol were modified. And original
symbols Oxs symbol were found. And the architecture of Indus valley people has no clue Rig veda.
No one can prove that the unearthed city is the city mentioned in RigVeda. Rig veda and Indus valley civilization was
on the same territory. So it can be either Rig-vedas or Indus valley peoples. If the city is Rig-vedas then prove with
architectural evidences and things which the people used. For your information this have connections with Indus
valley people through out the entire region.
Inidan ocean can be mentioned in Rig-veda that doesnt mean that they have lived there. that means they had
knowledge about that.
Reply
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Manoj Pashte
The Vedic people were indigenous people there was no migration or invasion. The theory of migration or invasion
have no proofs documentary or archiological. The evidence against any such invasion or migration is more or less
non existent. To begin with, (Vedic) sites spread over such a vast stretch, measuring well over a thousand miles
would not have been all abandoned simultaneously due to the incursion of (the so called)nomadic bands at one
extremity. Further, there is profuse archaeological evidence including the presence of sacrificial altars that go to
show that the Harappans were part of the Vedic fold.
The late Vedic literature includes mathematical texts known as the Sulba-sutras which contain detailed
instruction for the building of sacrificial altars. After a study spanning more than 20 years, the distinguished
American mathematician and historian of science, Abraham Seidenberg showed that the Sulba-sutras are the
source of both Egyptian and old Babylonian mathematics. The Egyptian texts based on the Sulba-sutras go back to
before 2,000 BCE. This provides independent comfirmation that Indian mathematical knowledge existed long
before that date, i.e. during the height of the Harappan era.
The sulba-sutras are part of the vedic religious literature known as the Kalpasutras. They were created originally to
serve as technical manuals for the design and construction of Vedic altars. As previously noted, Harappan sites
contain many such altars, a fact that supplies a link between Vedic literature and Harappan archaeology. It serves
also to show that the Vedic literature could not have been brought in by any invaders they were needed for
building the altars that are very much part of the Harappan archaeology! The sulba-sutra are the oldest
mathematical texts known. A careful comparison of the sulba-sutras with the mathematics of Egypt and old
Babylonia led Abraham Seidenberg to conclude:
the elements of ancient geometry found in Egypt and old Babylonia stem from a ritual system of the kind
found in the Sulba-sutras.
What is interesting is that the origins of ancient mathematics are to be found in religion and ritual. So the great
engineering feats of the Harappans can be seen as secular off-shoots of the religious mathematics found in Vedic
literature. The ritual mathematics in the Sulba-sutras led eventually to the purely secular achievements of the
Harappans like city planning and the design of harbours.
The proofs are every where and for every one to see one just needs to see.
Reply
Rupert
The other civilizations learn maths from veda is wrong. Veda people might have got their knowledge from other
civilization people (Egyptian & Babylonian). The linguistic research or any other language research doesnt support
that the harappan language has similarity with Sanskrit, the language in which the Vedas are written. And earlier the
harappan language was tried to grouped with Sanskrit. But now the research says noway we can group it with Sanskrit.
And Sanskrit also now assumed to be a derived language of Dravidian & European. Then suggesting an age of
Sanskrit before Greek and Latin is incorrect. If the Sanskrit is younger how can the Vedas written in Sanskrit will be
older.
In any civilization sacrifices is almost common. It cannot be said that they got the source from Vedas.
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Manoj Pashte
Rupert you have to get your facts right. It is not only me but the experts also who have now started looking into
the proofs that maths was learnt from the vedic people. In my earlier post I had stated about the excavation of the
city of Dwarka. You have in one of your earlier posts stated that you have read the scriptures of India. You have
not read the scriptures because if you had read you would not have been confused about the city of Dwarka being
a city mentioned in the Rig Veda. The carbon dating (I hope you believe in science) of the artefacts unearthed goes
beyound 8000 B.C. The city of Dwarka is the city of Lord Krishna described in the Mahabharata. Now if the city of
Dwarka can be dated to 8000 B.C. it is an admitted position that the rig veda was prior to the Mahabharata. It is
now for you to work on that.
There is no documentary or any other proof to show that mathematics has been learnt by the people of vedic era
from the Egyptians or the Babylonians. It is fact the other way round. There is plethora of work done by
mathematicians all over the world which studies point to only one way that mathamatics has traveled from the
Vedic people to the other civilisations.
It is regretful that people blieve in the assumptions drawn by people who had no knowledge about interpreting the
Sanskrit language. Assumption that the Sanskrit language is derived from the Dravidian and European language is
totally misleading. Latin and Greek languages are the basis for the European languages. When Sanskrit was the
language of the vedic people there was no dravidian language. Admittedly Sanskrit was and is prior to Greek and
Latin.
As is the caseof the Aryan race so is the case of the Dravidian race. Both are non existent. Genetic science has
proved that all the people of the sub continent are indeginous people there is no outside trait in these people. As
we understand it today the so called Aryans and the so called Dravidians are of the same race as that of the Vedic
people.
The writing of the Harrapa is not yet deciphered and hence no one talk about it being similar or not with Sanskrit.
Yes sacrifices are common in all civilisations. Rupert I was not talking about sacrifices. I was talking about building
scrificial altars and for that one requires the knowledge of not only mathematics but also of geometry which the
vedic people had and that(knowledge) is what is written in the Sulbha Sutras.
So Rupert one just has to keep a open mind for knowledge to flow in.
Reply
Dota
There is no documentary or any other proof to show that mathematics has been learnt by the people of vedic
era from the Egyptians or the Babylonians. It is fact the other way round. There is plethora of work done by
mathematicians all over the world which studies point to only one way that mathamatics has traveled from the
Vedic people to the other civilisations.
Gotta love classical Hindutva propaganda, ie India is the mother of human civilization. period. Well Manoj, I
take it that pre Islam Arabs were also Hindus perhaps?
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Manoj Pashte
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preislamic arabs were pagan worshipers. beleiving in many gods. if you read the arabian tales in the right
prospective
you would come to know the religious beliefs of the pre islamic arab world. Dota do not argue for the sake
of arguments. the pre islamic arabs believed in the existence of one Great Deity, they belived that the
All-Powerful Lord delegated His powers to some of His sacred personalities and objects both animate
and inanimate who serve as the media through which the worshipper could come in contact with Him
and thus earn His pleasure. It was under this belief that they worshipped the idols of saintly persons,
heavenly bodies and stones which were sometimes regarded not as divinities, but as the incarnations of
Divine Being.
What I have written about mathematics is not about Hindutva propaganda. Dota read before calling the
truth Hndutva propaganda.
Well Dota now you can answer your own question
Xera
Yes but those pre-islamic Arabs did not get their deities from the Hindus
Dota
Manoj
You are the one thats flogging a dead horse. The language and culture of the Aryans was radically different
from those of the Harrapans. Cultures dont take a 180 degree turn just like that. Even Christianity did not
completely change the various European cultures. Their symbolism, art, poetry and music retained their
pagan roots. Islam similarly incorporated many of the Pre-Islamic Arab values and customs. You expect
any sane person to believe that a well planned urban, egalitarian and mercantile culture would suddenly
transform into a caste-ridden rural society with a radically different language without any outside
influence? Dream on Manoj bhai. The horse itself is not native to the subcontinent but was introduced to it
from the central Asian steppes. Certain plants and vegetation mentioned in the Vedas are still found on the
Pakistan-Afghanistan border. A certain herbal drink mentioned in the Vedas is still served in chai ki
dukans in Pakistans frontier province even today. Get your facts from sources other than Hindutva
retards like Sudhir Birodhkar.
Jaipal
June 2, 2012 at 6:37 AM
@Dota,
Maanoj is right, actually. Mathematicians like Abraham Seidenberg have done the
research and pointed out that the mathematical formulas for altar constructions
in the shape of Pyramids is mentioned and described in the work known as the
Sulba Sutras.
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How this Hindu mathematical knowledge could have reached the Middle-East upto
Egypt, is likely due to the establishment of the Indic kingdoms like the Mittanni
dynasty, which is known to have had trading connections with Egypt.
There was also intermarriage among the royal families of Mittanni and the Pharoahs.
All this is proven in inscriptions and documents from that era!
Xera
lol Accept the fact that your country and your backwards culture sucks ass and hasnt made anything of
noteworthy at this present time. Your country is worthless on a global scale and is shit, unless you guys admit
all of the above, you guys will never become a modern society and get out of the medieval dark ages phase,
which for all intents and purposes India is at the moment, admit that. Ancient Egypt, Greek, Romans &
Persian stole everything from India? HA HA HA HA dont make me laugh, is that what you guys lie to yourself
to ignore all the potholes, scummy pathetic people and the stench of cow dung everyday?
Reply
Manoj Pashte
Xera I have already told you that you talk besides the point. By the language being used by you it is best
not to know your culture it must surely be worth not mentioning. Be that as it may we Indians are happy
with our culture. I suppose you are not in touch with todays reality. So be it be happy for as the saying goes
there is happinees in being ignorant.
Manoj Pashte
Xera you have a lot of reading to do so keep on reading
Manoj Pashte
dota you have yet to understand about the length and breath of the Vedic civilisation. In my earlier post I
had stated that the Vedic civilisation was spread over thousands of miles. The geographical boundaries of
today are of use in considering the extent of the Vedic civilisation. first of all get yourself acquainted with
the length and breath of the Vedic Civilisation.
if you are bent upon not to eccept the facts stated you will always think that one is flogging a dead horse. I
have also stated that the scrificial altars are found in the IVC those altars are built as per the guidelines
given in the sulbha Sutras
IVC is not just confined to only two towns ( Mohenjadaro and Harappa). Infact sites like Kalibangan,
Lothal, Dholavira, Rakigarh, Surkotoda more or less share similar features to that of Mohenjadaro and
Harappa. Any archeological material that is excavated and similar should be considered part of IVC.
Within the fortified citadel complex, the southern half contained many (five or six) raised platforms of
mud bricks, mutually separated by corridors. Stairs were attached to these platforms. Vandalism of these
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platforms by brick robbers makes it difficult to reconstruct the original shape of structures above them but
unmistakable remnants of rectangular or oval kuas (Kundas) or fire-pits of burnt bricks for Vedi (altar)s
have been found, with a ypa or sacrificial post (cylindrical or with rectangular cross-section, sometimes
bricks were laid upon each other to construct such a post) in the middle of each kua and sacrificial
terracotta cakes (pia) in all these fire-pits. Houses in the lower town also contain similar altars. Burnt
charcoals have been found in these fire-pits. The structure of these fire-altars is reminiscent of (Vedic)
fire-altars, but the analogy may be coincidental, and these altars are perhaps intended for some specific
(perhaps religious) purpose by the community as a whole. In some fire-altars remnants of animals have
been found, which suggest a possibility of animal-sacrifice. [19].
The official website of ASI reports : Besides the above two principle [sic] parts of the metropolis there was
also a third one-a moderate structure situated upwards of
m e. of the lower town containing four to five
fire altars. This lonely structure may perhaps have been used for ritual purposes [20]. Thus, fire-altars
have been found in three groups: public altars in the citadel, household altars in lower town, and public
altars in a third separate group.
How are yougoin to explain the horses depicted in caves near Karikkiyur, about 40 km from Kothagiri in
the Nilgiris. The rock paintings depict a battle scene with men aiming at each other with bows and arrows,
men on horseback engaged in battle.
Dota please do not read only the EUROCENTRIC VIEW be open and understand that by rediculing you
are not proving your point. For your information I have not read or received my facts from Sudhir
Bhirodkar or from any hindutvavadi. I am stating some plain historical facts. If it cannot be denied then
the people believing the theory are called Hindutvavadis. A good way to give a go by to the historical facts
which cannot be denied.
Dota
And I never said that the Aryans ignored the Harrapans altogether. Some of the IVC was clearly
incorporated into the VC. Archeological evidence and a lack of fossils has also proved that horses were not
known to the IVC. Several geneticists, including the renowned Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza have stated over
and over that upper caste Indians cluster fairly close to Europeans, Brahmins being the closest. It doesnt
mean that these people are white, no, but they are clearly Caucasoid whose origins lie outside the
subcontinent. Are you Hindutvadis so insecure and fascist in nature, that you must compulsively
indigenize a foreign people so as to maintain your shallow nationalistic hoax of India being the mother of
all civilizations? Get over yourselves.
Xera
On an unrelated note, Dota are the Bengalis one of those Aryan descended races? I have seen them and
they look completely different from other Indians
Dota
Xera
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Yes they are. Bengali brahmins in particular look very Caucasoid.
Xera
There are people saying thats its only a few of them and the rest are Dravidians. Yet a sizable number of
them look different, so I think there are some major strains.
Manoj Pashte
Dota your replies are not in accordace with the historical, archeological, linguistic and scientific findings. You are so
obsessed in supporting the Eurocentric viewabout the dating of the Rig Veda that you tend to ignore the evidences of
the earlier date of the Rig Veda. I have already stated that I have given only the historical facts.
Your Statement:- Are you Hindutvadis so insecure and fascist in nature, that you must compulsively indigenize a
foreign people so as to maintain your shallow nationalistic hoax of India being the mother of all civilizations? Get over
yourselves. is totally incorrect. The followers of sanatan dharma were, are and never will be insecure and fascist. A
person just by writing the truth cannot be termed as insecure or fascist only because that person does not believe in
what you believe. No foreign people are indianized compulsively, the genitic proofs are otherwise. The people of India
are indeginous. We the people of India do want to have any opinion from others about our nationalism.
You are so bent upon to prove that the rig veda is dated not earlier than 1300 B.C. without any proofs historical or
otherwise go to show that you do not care for the scientific evidence of any sort. Be that as it may the vedic civilisation
is the oldest and there are are proofs scientific, archeological, and documentary which you are not able to contradict
and hence you tend to hide behind the word hindutvavadi. Get yourself out of this inferiority complex and look at the
proofs you may find your answer.
Reply
Praveen Sarma
Good article. We had discussion about vedas in blogs written in our regional language (telugu). When I said that vedas
are just 3000 years old, Hindutva fanatics didnt agree with me. They argued in the style of rabbit with three legs
theory.
Reply
atheistseparatist
June 2, 2012 at 11:52 AM
Talking to nuts like jaipal reminds of a quote from house md :Rational arguments dont usually work on religious people. Otherwise there would be no religious people.
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Pingback: Veda kosovo | Kelstonmarketi
Madhusudan
March 17, 2012 at 2:14 AM
Looking @ the responses form Robert (some of his response Bla bla bla bla Sarasvati Bla bla bla Vedas Bla bla bla
1900 BC Bla bla bla river dried up Bla bla bla. , Yada yada Yada etc) ..I belive that he is immature and the article in
this blog is just heard cock and bull story. Robert I would like you to disprove Manoj Scientifically with facts.. I would
like you to do more research from non-hindutva side and come up with explanations to Manojs argument. Looking
forward to your next article on this.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
March 17, 2012 at 2:20 AM
Hi, no I am going to scientifically refute Hindutva pseudo-science. Its already been very well done by others
anyway.
Reply
R.B.Pandey
April 22, 2012 at 4:37 AM
blog started as if it was going to be mocking of hindus,aryans. vedas india ,and probably everything connected to this
land or subcotinent by an anti hindu mentality ,but thanks to Sri Manoj Pashte who made the blog interesting and
worthreading by giving realistic facts and arguiments to Mr.Lindsey though these are not supporting his objective.mr.
Reply
myworldmylifemylies
May 21, 2012 at 10:59 PM
iv noticed you are not ready to have a reasonable discussion to the comments posted by Indians on this article you
intelligently seemed to have written. there are always two sides of a story so why not listen and argue than jus
replying yada yada and all that.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
May 21, 2012 at 11:03 PM
All right Hindu, youre banned.
Reply
Arun
May 30, 2012 at 7:40 AM
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07-07-2014 18:40
Robert, if there ever was an example of a racist twit, its you. The terms you use for indians elephant jockey etc are
pretty reflective of what you are. I mean, i work with Americans everyday, but the amount of insular bigotry in you
and your bum chums on this blog pretty much makes me understand why my american friends are so contemptuous
of what they refer to as trailer trash. Keep talking of aryans etc point is you will never even know what the term
means and nor will you ever be able to afford the kind of knowledge afforded by proper education and travel. Stay
within the confines of the net, populated by inbred retards like you, and rejoice.
Reply
Arun
May 30, 2012 at 7:46 AM
Delusional cr@p right here:
Personally, I have been described as otherworldly,, beyond highbrow, one of those totally out to lunch genius
types, and off in my own world. I have a very high IQ, and Im told that a lot of high-IQ folks are like this. There
doesnt seem to be much I can do about it, but it does cause me problems. Generally, topics are focused through a
progressive yet heterodox lens. Discusses race a lot if it bugs you, dont read. I have been called a liberal race realist.
Liberal race realism has been described as a dash of race realism, positive white racial identity, the leftist view of
American history, anti-racism, and a base of liberalism.I see myself as a pan-humanist universalist and a White
ethnocentric anti-racist race realist, who strongly dislikes the PC, Cultural Marxist, Identity Politics, Western New
Left.
Basically an undereducated loser, insecure about his racial identity and hence running around trying to find some
romantic ideal to link his heritage to. Positive white racial identity who dislikes PC- LOL, talk about putting lipstick on
a pig, pretty much saying you are a white racist who wants to prove himself superior to others. Go to stormfront, they
have no shortage of crazies like you.
And self iding yourself as a genius, another mega LOL. Do you even realize how stupid and pretentious you sound?
You have a pathetic educational background with no technology or business skills, but a lowbrow skillset pretty much
acquired by losers who take part time college. Nobody worth anything would touch you with a forklift
No wonder the internet is all you have surrounded by other white whackjobs to egg you on.
Reply
Pepperoncini
May 30, 2012 at 2:15 PM
Standard Hindutvavadi response:
1) Itz a British Conspiracy
2) Whine about Eurocentricism when non Indian academics refuse to accept Hindutva lies.When Indian academics
dont agree with the Hindutva line, whine that they are Marxists.
3) Regurgitate the distortions and lies peddled by Hindutvavadis like: Rajaram,Elst,Frawley,Kaznas, Kalyanayram, BB
Lal etc None of these hacks have published their OIT spiel in peer reviewed Indology journals (following a peer
review process) .
Rig Veda describes a semi nomadic pastoral society of warlike tribes. Urban life / cities, mercantilism, sea faring,
intensive year round agriculture, hydraulic engineerin, major public works, a script, large scale manufacturing ..are
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all alien to the Rig Veda. So the chronicles of the Aryans themselves disprove the lies peddled by Hindutvavadis.
Hindutva agenda is to rip off the IVC and much of the Sub Con culture and claim it as Aryan. No different to Nazis
who saw Aryans everywhere, civilizing the world or White Supremacists who claim Ancient Egypt, Meso American Civ
and Sumer as White creations. Just pathetic attempt to steal another cultures accomplishments and claim it as their
own.
Reply
RajToo
May 31, 2012 at 12:54 AM
Robert,
why are you so shit-scared of the truth about the antiquity of the Indic Civilization coming out? Why do you pee in
you pants, when you read the mountain of evidence in its favor?
Reply
Robert Lindsay
May 31, 2012 at 1:10 AM
Im not scared of any of your lies, slumdog. Now hurry along. Dont you have to go take a shit on a sidewalk
somewhere?
Reply
Billa
May 31, 2012 at 2:37 AM
RajToo,
reading all these Aryan posts here, this is exactly the shit you call blog is just the right place for slumdogs to come
visit :)!
.
These little white Nazis are still trying to steal Aryan pride from us Indians. Well Robbie boy, you aint gonna get it!
Capisch!
.
Robbie, you Nazi jerk, are you scared, we got you by your little smelly balls?
Reply
Robert Lindsay
May 31, 2012 at 2:44 AM
Scared of you Indians and your failed society? Nah. Now fuck off back to Bharat my friend. And dont you need to
take a shit on your front porch right now? Nature is calling!
Reply
Sharan Kumar
June 1, 2012 at 1:11 PM
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To Robert, if we are a failed society, please know that india is 3rd in GDP with respect to PPP. Is it a failed state? The
more you use coercive language, the more it makes you intolerant and illogical. I guess they didnt teach this at school.
But anyway, you see there is a famous adage, and it reads like this: Truth will triumph. You and I may not be there. It
may take another 1000 years. But, the truth will be out some day.
It takes brains and a lot of cultural baggage to create and sustain a religion. India has given great thinkers like
Sankara, Buddha and many more and home to many more religions. You guys have one religion and that too is
extinct. Your God who civilized you guys is Asian, ok West Asian. Now tell me, how many religions came out of
Europe? Your Plato, Aristotle are puerile in their arguments when compared to Nagarjuna, Dharmakirti and Dignaga.
Now, i dont say that Im superior to you. That is childishness. I say that there has been a continuum of ideas and that
there is no point talking about India giving or getting. It has always been both ways. We have the MATURITY to
accept this. Since, the west has not seen much spiritualism, such barbaric arrogance is expected. Grow up guys.
Cheers.
.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
June 1, 2012 at 1:16 PM
Yes, India is a failed state.
Reply
Seriously?
June 1, 2012 at 1:21 PM
Wonderful. Then I guess theres no point in you bashing it.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
June 1, 2012 at 1:37 PM
Well, there is hope even for failed states. They can always turn it around. But I dont think India can. The
problem with India is its people and its culture. They want to live in a failed state. They want to live in a
shithole. They like it that way. Anyway, they created the shithole failed state all by themselves. The
shithole failed nature of the society reflects upon the people who created it. In a way, I dont care so much,
except that they are people, and I wish the best for all people.
But I am starting to think these Indians are most of the backwards, fucked up, regressive, barbaric and
uncivilized people around. I am really worried about bringing more of these reactionaries (and that is what
they are) into my country. I dont think they belong here unless, like the Indian commenters on this site,
they are willing to assimilate to the West.
We already have way too many reactionaries in this country. They are called Republicans. But even
Republicans havent created as failed a shithole as India, though thats obviously their dream. I dont want
them in my country, I think they are some of the worst immigrants to come to my country period, and I am
really afraid of the effect they are going to have here.
And I do think they are hopeless. If people want to change, they can change, but these people are so sick
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that they really dont want to change. Its infuriating, but what can you do?
I can live with Muslims way better than I can live with these backwards subcontinentals. We have a lot of
Indians around me and they are way cooler than the Indians around me. In fact, the coolest
subcontinentals of all around here are the MUSLIMS. Now what kind of sense does that make? You know
your society sucks balls in Hell when your MUSLIMS are the most civilized and decent among you. Good
God.
Seriously?
June 1, 2012 at 1:50 PM
Look, theres no need to use words like shit or shithole to characterize 1.2 billion people. Whatever
your aim is, nothing will be accomplished by doing so. If its a terrible place and Indians are terrible people
as you say, provide the evidence and let it speak for itself. Unfortunately, evidence is the one thing I dont
see hereand that goes for both sides.
But It is funny that you simultaneously bash Indians and Republicans, yet Indians are essentially liberal
across the board.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_American
Im calling you out on it: There is literally no measure you can think of that would justify calling Indian
Americans bad immigrants. So far, it only indicates that you dont actually know any and have instead
decided to rely on preconceptions. For all this talk about Indians being bad people and bad immigrants, I
havent seen you give one legitimate reason in either blog post Ive read of yours, or the countless
comments youve made. You seem to just be repeating that India is bad over and over again.
Robert Lindsay
June 1, 2012 at 2:00 PM
We have gone over endlessly why Indians suck on this blog. They dont care one bit about their fellow
man, they are callous, cruel and insensitive, and they are among the greediest and coldest people I have
ever met. They put the stereotypical Jew to shame. Its everything for me and mine and fuck everyone else,
and I do mean fuck everyone else.
Indians have no empathy for their fellow man and no sense of the common good. Thats utterly absent
from this culture. Thats as backwards regressive as any society on Earth. as a progressive person, 1.2
million people who dont give a flying fuck about their fellow man and have no sense of the common good
is a disaster. And I am really worried about bringing people with this mindset into my country.
I am going to do a post soon on why Indian immigrants suck. I am even starting to think that subcon
Christians and Sikhs suck. I have met enough of them to know.
Robert Lindsay
June 1, 2012 at 2:06 PM
Well, I am glad that they are voting Democrat. Youd never know it from talking to them. I still say I dont
like them, and I have to deal with them all the time around here. Hell, the Mexicans are cooler than the
Indians around here. Anytime the Mexicans are better than you are, youre in sorry shape.
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Seriously?
June 1, 2012 at 2:09 PM
Gee, you hate the two most statistically liberal groups of people in America Jews and Indiansfor not
being progressive enough and not caring about their fellow man. Apparently the only crime theyve
committed is also being the two wealthiest groups in America. Sounds pretty irrational so far.
Seriously?
June 1, 2012 at 2:14 PM
Damn, is there any non-white group you dont hate? However, it seems you hate the majority of whites as
well. So much for caring about your fellow man.
Robert Lindsay
June 1, 2012 at 2:15 PM
Jews are good and liberal but on a personal level that can be greedy and callous as fuck all.
Indians come from a shit culture where no one cares about their fellow man. They dropped all of that when
they came here? Forget it.
The Indians around here, when it comes down to it, are just rude and unfriendly. Theyre the rudest and
unfriendliest group around these parts. Like the stereotype of the pushy, rude, asshole Jew.
I dont hate Jews either.
I really dont want to carry on this debate with you. Its not going anywhere.
Robert Lindsay
June 1, 2012 at 2:18 PM
BTW, youre violating the comments rules.
#1 violation is hostile tone. I ban on that.
#2 violation is calling me racist. Youre accusing me of hating all sorts of folks that I dont hate at all. You
cant do that on here. I ban on that.
Seriously?
June 1, 2012 at 2:32 PM
Sorry, I agree, that was a leap on my part.
Dota
June 1, 2012 at 2:39 PM
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Too be perfectly fair Robert, I dont hold a very high view of Indian Muslims either. Same worldview, same
morals, same culture, same practices. Im glad youve met a handful of cool ones in your area, but having
grown up around them I can confidently say that they are just as tribal as their Hindu neighbors. This is
why I ultimately think that Khalistan will fail just as Pakistan did. The only reason Hinduized Bangladesh
is doing much better is because it is an ethnically homogenous state.
Bay Area Guy

June 1, 2012 at 2:20 PM
As minorities in Western countries, both Jews and Indians have to put on a facade of being liberal and tolerant, for
important strategic purposes.
However, observe the way they behave when theyre the majority (whether its Jews in Israel or desis in India), and
their true nature is revealed.
Reply
Seriously?
June 1, 2012 at 2:38 PM
So youre saying were genetically evil? lol My mother has voted for Congress (the center-left party in India) her
entire life despite coming from a powerful Brahman family; all of her family members did/do, even though doing
so has meant losing all their power. Both of us are very liberal, and Ive been a socialist since High School. People
can both want education for themselves and care about other people. Trust me, its not a facade.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
June 1, 2012 at 2:56 PM
Congress hasnt done crap for India. Ive known some Indians in India. They all voted for Congress and were
more or less Hindutvas in the way that they talked and viewed the world. The Hindutva Indian nationalist view
is basically the default view for all Indian Hindus. Congress has been in power forever, and India is just as
fucked as its ever been.
Ive had it with India. Im with the Maoists.
I see youre family is Brahmin. I thought so. You all talk the same. Shining India LOL.
Reply
Seriously?
June 1, 2012 at 3:03 PM
Congress, both in terms of the progress they can achieve/have achieved and their views, is basically the
same as the Democratic party.
And not entirely, no. My father was not a Brahman; he was Vaishya.
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Pepperoncini
June 1, 2012 at 3:15 PM
This is the same party that enables a family dictatorship; Nehru > Indira Ghandi> Rajiv>Sonia. In
any Western democrasy this would be called nepotism.
Indira Ghandi also institued a Eugenics program that forcibly sterilised 7 million Indians, virtually all lower
caste poor people and tribals.
Congress gives a facade of tolerance and inclusion, but it is all fake. Congress BJP relationship is a bit
like the good cop bad cop routine.
Bay Area Guy

June 1, 2012 at 3:04 PM
So youre saying were genetically evil?
LOL yourself. I never said that. Thats a strawman argument if there ever was one.
Im sure your family is absolutely wonderful, but my point remains. Compare the way Hindutvas act in India,
where theyre the majority (where they use the language of Hindu dominance/supremacy), compared to how
they act in the U.S, where theyre the minority (where they use the language of pluralism, multiculturalism,
anti-colonialism, etc).
Dota once provided a link to an article about the whole Hindutva textbook controversy in California.
Western Jews are very much the same. They talk a big game about tolerance, diversity, and multiculturalism
in Western countries, but unapologetically support Israels Jewish ethnocracy (even though they occasionally
give lip service to the idea that certain forms of anti-Jewish discrimination are wrong), and Israeli Jews, who
are the majority in their society, are unapologetic Jewish supremacists.
Is it because theyre genetically predisposed to be evil? Of course not. Its a matter of strategy and self-interest.
When youre the minority in liberal Western countries, it pays to play the equality, multiculturalism,
tolerance, and pluralism card. Youre not powerful enough to fight toe to toe with the white majority, so you
try to disarm them with pluralistic liberal rhetoric.
However, when youre the majority, you tend to have no problem with unapologetically asserting your
dominance, as Jews in Israel and Hindu desis in India do, with white Western countries being the exception to
this rule in many ways.
Reply
Pepperoncini
June 1, 2012 at 3:17 PM
@ Bay Area Guy
Thumbs Up
Seriously?
June 1, 2012 at 3:24 PM
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Not that it would help my point all (its probably going to hurt it), but twice-born castes are definitely a
minority in India unlike Jews in Israel.
Anyways, though, it seems to me almost a contradiction to presuppose that certain people are
self-interested, even when theyre ostensibly going against their own interests, and also suggesting that
they shouldnt be. Youre separating yourself from those groups for whatever reason, forgetting them
conscious beings, and making pretty blanket statements without clear evidence in support of those
statements.
Per Wikipedia:
Helmreich describes Jews as a uniquely swayable bloc as a result of Republican stances on Israel.
[24][99][102] A paper by Dr. Eric Uslaner of the University of Maryland disagrees, at least with regard to
the 2004 election: Only 15% of Jews said that Israel was a key voting issue. Among those voters, 55%
voted for Kerry (compared to 83% of Jewish voters not concerned with Israel). The paper goes on point
out that negative views of Evangelical Christians had a distinctly negative impact for Republicans among
Jewish voters, while Orthodox Jews, traditionally more conservative in outlook as to social issues, favored
the Republican Party.[103] A New York Times article suggests that the Jewish movement to the
Republican party is focused heavily on faith-based issues, similar to the Catholic vote, which is credited for
helping President Bush taking Florida in 2004.[104] However, Natan Guttman, The Forwards
Washington bureau chief, dismisses this notion, writing in Moment that while [i]t is true that
Republicans are making small and steady strides into the Jewish communitya look at the past three
decades of exit polls, which are more reliable than pre-election polls, and the numbers are clear: Jews vote
overwhelmingly Democratic,[105] an assertion confirmed by the most recent presidential election
results.
I think its better to just understand that each group of people can be separated into those who are always
self-interested and those who are trying to look out for other people. Im assuming youd classify yourself
as the latter, even though many people have negative opinions of whites as well. It almost seems as if
liberal Jews and upper-caste Indians cant do anything to sway certain opinions about them, even though
the comprise the majority of their respective groups.
Bay Area Guy

June 1, 2012 at 3:35 PM
@ Seriously
Perhaps I took too much of Machiavellis The Prince or Saul Alinskys Rules for Radicals to heart when
I them, but I happen to have a very negative view of human nature.
Unless youre good friends with someone, or are their own flesh and blood, youre very rarely going to go
out of your way to help someone purely out of altruism.
People, especially those in politics, act out of self-interest, and anyone who denies it is a damn fool.
I would advise reading the autobiography of Malcolm X, go near the end of the book, and read what he has
to say about the reasons why the Jewish leadership supported the black civil rights movement. They
certainly didnt do it out of love for black people.
And no, I dont pretend to be one of those white liberals who feigns empathy for the black and Hispanic
masses.
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I am very much a self-interested person. Im at least honest about that. I wish others would display similar
honesty.
Dota
June 1, 2012 at 6:05 PM
BAG
Perhaps I took too much of Machiavellis The Prince or Saul Alinskys Rules for Radicals to heart
when I them, but I happen to have a very negative view of human nature.
Then perhaps you need to take Shakespeare to heart too:
What a piece of work is a man, How noble in
Reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving
how express and admirable, In action how like an Angel!
in apprehension how like a god, the beauty of the
world, the paragon of animals.
Dota
June 1, 2012 at 8:33 PM
BAGs post sums it up nicely.
Seriously? You have made some pretty self serving and dishonest claims yourself. You know as well as i do
that the Presidents position in India means nothing. The President is just a figurehead. The real power lies
with the prime minister, and weve yet to see dalits or Muslims/Christians make it there.
Bay Area Guy

June 1, 2012 at 9:12 PM
@ Dota
Well said. That makes Seriouslys lame arguments even worse.
Seriously?
June 1, 2012 at 10:05 PM
lol lame arguments
I dont know what to say. This could have taken about 30 seconds to look up on Google: Its true that in
practice the Prime Minister does display more power, but the de jure power rests with the President, who
appoints the Prime Minister. Whether or not a dalit is selected is completely up to the President. So yes, a
dalit was elected to the highest office the populace could elect him to.
Pepperoncini
June 1, 2012 at 2:41 PM
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Thats a good point. Id say it is the same for Muslims and East Asians. In the US, they have to act nice outwardly,
because American culture does not like open blatant bigotry. Usually these non Euro minorities are passive
aggresive and practice what I call smart or sly racism .
Reply
Pepperoncini
June 1, 2012 at 2:42 PM
Above post was in response to Bay Area Guys post
Reply
Seriously?
June 1, 2012 at 2:44 PM
Or youre just projecting preconceived notions onto them. Thats a pretty huge logical leap to make.
Reply
Pepperoncini
June 1, 2012 at 3:23 PM
Its called observation. Not true for all as people are still individuals to a degree but the cultural groups they
belong to will tend to exhibit certain sympathies and biases.
Bay Area Guy

June 1, 2012 at 3:27 PM
On another note, this is also why I, as a white person, am very wary of any non-white minority group in Western
countries that plays the equality and tolerance card. Its because I know damn well that if they were to become the
majority and wield the power, they would unapologetically favor themselves, and to hell with equality.
But as long as they can continue to dupe white liberal useful idiots, theyll continue to do it.
Reply
Pepperoncini
June 1, 2012 at 9:58 PM
@Dota,
quoting Bay
Dota once provided a link to an article about the whole Hindutva textbook controversy in California.
Could you provide the link again please. I am somewhat familiar with the subject, having read the comments by
Western Indologists who battled the Hindutvadis.
As far as I know, the general gist of the textbook controversy revolves around Indian Americans and their White
fellow travellers like Frawley whitewashing the horrors of caste, downplaying the Aryan-Dravidian issue, downplaying
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the fact that IVC was not Aryan .

Reply
Dota
June 1, 2012 at 10:40 PM
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main16.asp?filename=op020406Hindutva_goes.asp
The one positive thing Ill gladly admit about India is that it does have a relatively free media that represents a
diverse range of views. Interestingly enough, this is also true for Pakistan despite the authoritarianism.
Reply
Pepperoncini
June 1, 2012 at 11:39 PM
Thanks
I am currently googling the subject and ran across the below website which I only link to as it appears
academically oriented. It is an electronic journal, and has an article on the Cali Textbook Controversy. It has
some choice quotes where the writer does not shy away from blunty stating the obvious. Too often Western
academics take a passive and polite attitude towards Hindutva revisionist attempts, instead of calling a duck a
duck.
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/the_global_south/v002/2.1.bose.html
Partial quote from the 11th paragraph
Combined, these changes equate the history of ancient India with the history of Hinduism, and reduce a
diverse set of religious practices and beliefs to those associated with the patriarchal, Brahmanical perspective
while marginalizing the vital contributions of religious minorities, women, Adivasis (tribals) and Dalits to
Indian history.
Last pararaphg mentions the history peddled by Hindu Educational Foundation, one of the chief reviosionist
American Hindu orgs involved in the textbook case.
This site also brags that ancient India has the distinction of being the only destination in the world for UFOs,
while the Aryans made it to the moon. Scientificminded readers can be assured that
Reply
Jaipal
June 2, 2012 at 7:07 AM
Dota said: Manoj
You are the one thats flogging a dead horse. The language and culture of the Aryans was radically different from
those of the Harrapans. Cultures dont take a 180 degree turn just like that. Even Christianity did not completely
change the various European cultures. Their symbolism, art, poetry and music retained their pagan roots. Islam
similarly incorporated many of the Pre-Islamic Arab values and customs. You expect any sane person to believe that a
well planned urban, egalitarian and mercantile culture would suddenly transform into a caste-ridden rural society
with a radically different language without any outside influence? Dream on Manoj bhai. The horse itself is not native
to the subcontinent but was introduced to it from the central Asian steppes. Certain plants and vegetation mentioned
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in the Vedas are still found on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. A certain herbal drink mentioned in the Vedas is still
served in chai ki dukans in Pakistans frontier province even today. Get your facts from sources other than Hindutva
retards like Sudhir Birodhkar. (Quote)
@Dota,
Your entire argument is easily refutable. The language of the Harappans is not
known for sure because their script has never been satisfactorily deciphered,
so the actual linguistic identity is not known! So, you cannot say with certainty
that Harappans were non-IE speakers. Therefore, your claim is just an assumption
without any proof! Since the Harappan civilization is a NORTHERN civilization
just as the Vedic Civilization was, there is nothing incompatible with the possibility
that Harappans may have a connection with Vedic Culture!
As far as the culture of the Indo-Aryans goes, the Rig-Veda is actually the product of a
King-Sage culture, namely Rishi-Raja culture!! The Rig-Veda was composed by an Indian
dynasty known as the Bharata Dynasty. You can consult Michael Witzel on this by the
way. The Rig-Veda knows sea-faring and trading as well as agriculture because there
are many descriptions of the ocean and prayers are made for a safe crossing of
the ocean for trading purposes as well as prayers for rain!! so, you are wrong
about Rig-Veda being composed by a nomadic people!!
As for the horse, this argument is somewhat flawed. While the horse may not be native
to the subcontinent, it doesnt undermine the possibility that horses could be imported
by the ruling Indian clans at the time without the necessity of introducing a whole new
people. Absence of physical evidence of horse remains does not mean necessarily
evidence of absence of the horse. It could be that the horse remains werent preserved
and didnt survive in the archeological record!
Reply
benne
July 15, 2012 at 1:37 AM
You say at the beginning of your rant:
Generally, the Rig Vedas are said to begin around 3900 YBP.
Then you say:
As Hindu culture is ahistoric in terms of dates and events, no one knows when these events took place.
Only one statement can be correct.
Not sure why you are so keen to take on Hindutva crazies you could ignore them, but you seem concerned enough
about what Hindutva crazies say to actually write a rant about their beliefs.
Actually some of the things that hindutva crazies say might possibly be true and that is getting a whole lot of
scholarly knickers in a right royal twist. That would, in my view, be a good reason for you to have your rant.
LOL
Reply
Robert Lindsay
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July 15, 2012 at 8:41 AM

Nothing controversial that those Hindu dogs say is correct. Nothing, nothing, nothing.
And you are banned.
Reply
AIT-Nazis got no history!

July 19, 2012 at 8:52 AM
So does that mean that all that what AIT-Nazis like Witzel and you say is correct? Gimme a break!
You Nazis have a serious problem of identity and history!
He-He!
Reply
Robert Lindsay
July 19, 2012 at 9:04 AM
Ok slumdog, youre banned. Amazing, in India, even the vast majority of the intellectuals are retarded!
Yes, Witzel and I are correct. And you retarded Hindu dogs are all wrong.
Reply
Xera
Robert, Ive always wanted to ask you this but do you think in your honest opinion that Euros and Caucasians
in general are the best looking and most aesthetic human race compared to others?
Reply
Robert Lindsay
I really do not want to get into that line of thinking. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I cant stand the
whole line of thinking that any race is better looking than any other race. Human races have clearly been
selecting for beauty for a long time now. Although I must admit that it is very hard for me to find
Aborigines beautiful!
proto87
July 19, 2012 at 10:22 AM
Unfortunately, the vocal minority is taken to be the voice of the hindu community. There is a vocal minority of
hindutva crazies (I wont call them hindus) who believe in indigenous origin of vedic language and give hoary dates to
these. In the fantasy world of hindutvas theories, it doesnt matter if they date rigveda to 5000bc/10,000bc or even
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80,000bc.
Ive never heard Hindu priests or anyone with a good knowledge of vedic language and material culture give such
hoary dates.
So, none of the statements of hindutva crazies can be taken to be those of hindu community as such.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
July 19, 2012 at 10:42 AM
Thank you. It is nice to know that there are some sane and intelligent Hindus out there.
Reply
Bay Area Guy

July 19, 2012 at 10:57 AM
Damn Robert, how many Hindutva slumdogs have you banned?
Reply
Robert Lindsay
July 19, 2012 at 11:03 AM
Wow, it never stops does it LOL?
Bay Area Guy

July 19, 2012 at 11:36 AM
LOL, I mean, I imagine it has to be a lot, considering you started writing about India over two years ago.
Robert Lindsay
July 19, 2012 at 12:03 PM
LOL BAG, by the time I am done, I will have banned half of India.
Jai Hind motherfuckers!
Yasdnil Is-A Tnuc

July 19, 2012 at 10:45 AM
Oh boy! Yet another moonbat shit-crazy numbnut who has no clue about India or Sanskrit but has opinions. As
science and genetics catch up , the world arounf AIT-Nazis keep getting smaller and smaller.
Maybe you should find out why Jesus is blonde-haired-blue-eyed and not the typical middle eastern looks for
someone from Palestine. Start there boy , after sifting through the paidos in the church.
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India and Sanskrit is a little too much for your thick skull.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
July 19, 2012 at 11:02 AM
Another Hindu dog banned. Pitiful. What kind of a nation produces such a garbage crop of retarded intellectuals
anyway?
Reply
Krishna
August 23, 2012 at 10:17 AM
The very reason for educated hindus proving the aryan invasion theory wrong is to reinstate the truth about indian
history distorted by european invaders trying to have spiritual supremacy over indians. This is what europeans did
within europe as well outside. whenever they attacked any country. Be it the history our science, british rulers on
india have distorted everything very systematically so that could continue to rule spiritually enslaved try
Reply
Truth
September 9, 2012 at 4:41 AM
WHere does this Uneducated Bigotic Idiotic Moronic White Trash Nazi like Robert Lindsey Exist
Reply
Truth
This White Trash will not only be reported bit taken to task with Authorities for such Idiotic Uneducated
Racist Comments and so will this Site..
Reply
Robert Lindsay
Ok Hindu, you are banned.
Robert Lindsay
All right, take off you Hindu dickwad.
Reply
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Chandru
November 8, 2012 at 1:50 AM
Hey Western Crony,
Read the aticle @ http://www.cycleoftime.com/articles_view.php?codArtigo=54 before you argue further
Reply
priyanka
lolzz why this people are so much jealous of India..ohh yeah got it they dont have such a great humanity thoughts like
SANATAN DHARMA teaches.. they dont have such a powerful mean of relaxation called MEDITATION and also they
dont have such a great language SANSKRIT which is most perfectly suitable for todays technology and many more
thingsgosh lots of jealous people on this earth..
Reply
Robert Lindsay
November 17, 2012 at 9:43 PM
Youre right nig.
I am so jealous of you curryniggas.
You get to shit right in the street! I have to shit in a bathroom, in a toilet of all abominations! Humiliating!
Dude, do you have any idea how cool it would be if I could walk right into the middle of my apartment complex
parking lot in the middle of the day, while people are looking, drop my pants and take a gigantic SHIT right in the
middle of this crappy parking lot! I mean legally? I mean people could not even do one thing about it? Damn, I
would pay good money for that privilege!
You curryniggas have no idea how good you have it.
Reply
honyok
Damn Robert
You go right for the F^^ing Juglar man. LMFAO
Reply
honyok
Hey all you Hindus and people of India we really Love you here in the USA
Namaste (or something like that) I was thinking if everyone shits in the streets over there in India their
Dogs must be well fed.
(dont let em lick you in the face though) UGH
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come to think of it . dont they eat dogs over there?
honyok
I would enjoy shitting on someones porch I did not like.
that probably is a big deal over in India. Perhaps they have big turd shitting tournaments.
Reply
Kishen
August 14, 2013 at 10:08 PM
what bothers you we shit outside or inside, Dont exaggerate. Toilet facilities are improving as the population is
a bit high there is a problem and india will solve all its problem and will economically outclass other countries.
India is a beautiful land with rich culture which was polluted by the filthy british and other foreigners. India
will regain its glory and prove the world we the indian aryans are greatest in this world you smug bastard.
Indians are not niggers as mentioned by you, most of the indians have fair complexion only some doown
south are black you racist bigot specs wearing bastard.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
August 14, 2013 at 10:14 PM
All right you Hindu worm, I am banning you.
priyanka
hahaha and this admin is such a big loser.. banning hindus who are saying truth losers cant even face the facts
Reply
Robert Lindsay
I banned you, nig.
Reply
Robert Lindsay
LOL at all these pissed off Hindus!
LMFAO!
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Reply
priyanka
never seen such a dumb but funny guy in my life.. poor Robert Lindsay
Reply
Robert Lindsay
Bye bye Hindu.
Reply
honyok
Robert please for my sake view Mott69s latest post directed toward me.
It has very HOSTILE tone and of combative nature.
You know I apologized to him but apparently he is carrying a grudge in a back-pack. I dont expect you to ban
him but a firm warning would be nice.
- it is in the commentary of recent review of the Israel/gaza dispute
Thank you sir
Reply
Robert Lindsay
Unfortunately, you guys are allowed to attack each other on here. Its just that you were going way
overboard with it and just attacking people for no reason as a pure troll, thats all.
So yeah, Motts allowed to fight you, and you can fight him back.
I dont encourage that stuff on the site, but it goes on anyway.
honyok
Ok Robert well thanks for this- I respect that.
but I though we were not allowed to use Hostile tone
I am glad you shared this with me. Please dont nuke me when I give Mott69 a taste of his medicine.
I can work him like he wouldnt believe as I have been at this a long time. Thanks
Robert Lindsay
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You cant use hostile tone with me or Alpha.
You fuckers can use it all you want with each other. Its not exactly optimal, but I aint going to stop you.
honyok
I hear you loud and clear. I have read enough postings to understand that If I want to stay on this blog of all people
dont disrespect you or it is
adios. I read you loud and clear Sir. Sorry I bothered you with this.
But I do think Mott is doing the same thing I was accused of doing and that is following me around looking for a fight.
He wants to hold a grudge.
Thanks for the advice
Reply

Rig-Veda cannot be dated before BC1500
evidences
1. Archeological evidences says that Indus valley civilization was existing till BC1900 on a particular river bank. which
means certain river had not dried out till BC1900. The same river is identified as Saraswathi in Rigveda. As per the
points mentioned in Rigveda Saraswathi river had dried out when the book was written.
2. There are enough evidences in Rigveda for the people of Vedic period were using cucumber family vegetables. But
the food samples from the teeth of people & cattle and vessels used for cooking and storing in Indus Valley civilization
has not trace of cucumber family vegetables.. (Indus valley civilization was existing till BC1900)
3. Rigveda people were using horses. But there is no evidences for the usage of horses in the Indus valley civilization.
(Some sanskrit scholars tried to change the single horn ox seals to horse seal by removing its horn has been
identified.)
4. The second half of Rigveda borrowed many Dravidian words including min(fish), pal(fruit) etc., The linguistic
researchers say Sanskrit borrowed morphology from Dravidian language. Lexicon & morphology constructs a
language. The lead as to conclude that Sanskrit was derived after Dravidian and Iranian language has evolved.
5. Megasthanis a greek scholar who has visited India at BC300 clearly says that the hindu(Veda based religion) gods
krishna & shiva are identical to the Greek gods. It tells us that the Veda Based religion is imported thus it supports the
migration of Veda based religion people moved from Europe. The Genetic study (based on heplogroup R1a1 and
derivatives) suggests that the people migration was not before 5000 years.. (i.e. BC3000.) Since the migration is
supported by genetic study it cannot be refused.
6. This migration cannot be dated back prior to Indus valley period.. Since they dont share cultural & constructional
practices. And food, animals those are mentioned above.
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Abhishek Tiwari
THE WRITER OF THIS ARTICLE IS NOT A HISTORIAN. THIS IS THE BASIC THING THAT ONE SHOULD
KNOW FROM THIS ARTICLE..
Reply
Manny
August 29, 2013 at 8:10 AM
Ah a Dravidian christian.. Tsk Tsk! Nothing is older than Jesus! Sheesh! The virus is spreading.
Reply
Manny
August 29, 2013 at 8:13 AM
Let me picture this.. you are a Dravidian christian who wears a 3 piece suit and tie in 110 degree weather to go to
church!
Check the word Acculturation Gunga Din!
Reply
Dr swami gyananand
paleo channel studies and remote sensing geomorphological studies done by scientist has established beyond any
doubt origin of Saraswati river from the Himalayas and flowing through Haryana, Punjab, Rajasthan-Gujrat to arbain
sea, River bed, locations along its banks have been established. Plate tectonic theory and geological history of the area
fully establish saraswati river bed. Now sample analysis leave no scope of any kind of confusion. whole discussion is
being wastage of time and out of ignorance of scientific knowledge of present day science.
2. Mohanjadro civilisation new sites in Haryana & Punjab explored during recent 30 years has removed all confusion.
History has to be rewritten with new evidences published and accepted by scientific community.
3.Genome studies published recently established that Aryans were aboriginal of Bharat and they never came from
outside. Genome results of Dravidians and North Bhartiya are same. No caste, genome of Bharatvanshis are same.
Genome results of aryan do not match europeans. Invasion theory is wrong and fabricated.
4. Recent scientific studies and geological evolution, origin and geological evolution of Horse & elephant, their age,
evolution of the Himalyas are significant in this study. Every thing is clear, no fun relying on sayings by so and so
person.
Reply
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Cyrus
December 16, 2012 at 5:01 AM
I smell a Hinduvata!
Reply
Tanishq
hey author, you are a sick person ,really sick, your mind is closed like a hemispherical bowl, you dont want to think on
ideas ,new ideas ,the world is falling apart because of conservative people like you
first of all have you even read the VEDAS ?? because i have read them in sanskrit , not fully but atleast i understood it
well, do you know that vedas are the most ancient knowledge books in the history of world ,the time when people of
your nation couldnt even speak a work ,at that time our small children recited those holy phrases of ramayana and
mahabharta,
vedas contain1)biological information, on fertility,embryo,eye surgery,heart surgery,etc
2)it contains a huge amount of information about the construction of space-ship called VIMANAS with detailed
chemical proportion and solid detailed diagramatical explanation
3)it contains information on metaphysics,quantumphysics, and mechanics
4)it contains information about the 9 dimensions that we pass through ,the laws governing our universe also stating
that we ,the humans are multidimensional cosmic beings, human civilization has come and gone 5 times ,each time a
catatrophe struck, humans vanished ,and again repopulated this planet ,neither we ,nor any higher entity can change
this,this is the cycle of our planet
SO YOU FIRST READ VEDAS ,COME TO INDIA, DO A BIT OF RESEARCH AND THEN POST THIS SHIT ARTICLES
ON SITE
many thanks
Reply
Robert Lindsay
I am banning you, Hindu dog. Bye.
Reply
mother fukkers are christians(Robert Lindsay gay bastard)

June 13, 2013 at 8:31 PM
i am banning you western gay and incest dog and god jesus bye.
Reply
mother fukkers are christians(Robert Lindsay gay bastard)

June 13, 2013 at 8:34 PM
The GREAT MOTHERFUKKERS AND INCEST ARE CHRISTIANS LIKE ROBERT LINDSAY
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Reply
(Robert Lindsay the great mother fukker)

June 13, 2013 at 8:43 PM
JESUS IS SON OF WHORE. jesus DNA is match with marrys father. what incest christians and
incest gods. JEsus is not god 1st u know stupid asshole. The Great da Vinci CODE said jesus is son
of whore like Robert Lindsay and both their mom fucked by own father(jesus grand father and
robert lindsay grand father.). virgin marry hymen teared by own father 1st then after she fucked
by all. wish u all holy incest christians bastards.
Reply
robert Lindsay
June 13, 2013 at 8:49 PM
im banning u christian dog. bye
Reply
Robert Lindsay
June 14, 2013 at 1:54 AM
Bye Hindu.
Reply
Akshay
July 19, 2013 at 5:33 AM
Well if u cant understand the meaning of hymns in Rigveda or other texts in sanskrit then better to GTFO
Western thinking is to divide and break Indian culture. The Harvard medical school conducted DNA testing in
Indian land and it resulted that Therd was no Aryan invasion and Vedas were the produce of even before IVC. Go
and boost ua low knowledge level..
Reply
AM
August 28, 2013 at 11:00 PM
Just seeing the discussion between Robert and Alok shows me that Robert is an angry man who is desperately trying
to say that the AIT theory is true by claiming so called serious scholars outside of India support it.
I dont want to waste my time pointing the numerous ways in which that argument is flawed.
Secondly, all of Roberts statements are he says she says without providing a detailed response to any of the points
raised by the folks who support the OIT theory.
His vulgar tone also shows he is mentally unstable.
I must conclude that this blog post is not supported in any way shape or form. Robert, as much as I like white people,
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you wont be able to stop the truth from emerging. Sorry.

Reply
Robert Lindsay
August 29, 2013 at 1:10 AM
The debates over, Hindu worm. There is nothing more to discuss.
PS, you are banned.
Reply
ram
May 25, 2014 at 1:46 AM
there is no evidence of aryan invasion to india. aryan is indiginous to india.veduc civiluzation us 8000 year old. by
genetic, archeological study.
peoples are stupid that says aryan invasion theory.
we are hindus we know our history better than west peoples. so do not argue on this topic.
Reply
Kapillas
May 25, 2014 at 3:02 AM
Robert Lindsay I heard ur m0m was a H00ker..She was r@ped by the v@tican priest. in the confession box Did
u put cr0ss down ur arse while writing this..
Degraded christian pin worm ..take bath before commenting
Reply
Robert Lindsay
May 25, 2014 at 4:15 AM
All right you Hindu moron, I am banning you.
HAND!
Reply
rigvedadecoded
June 26, 2014 at 11:32 PM
An exciting development for Rigveda and Sanskrit lovers: A completely new translation of selected hymns such as the
Creation hymn, the 10 kings battle hymn, Vena hymn and the river hymn (nadi stuti).
A Horse Amongst Donkeys
(Some secrets of the Rigveda)
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