SustainableShorelinesAdvisoryTeamMeetingNotes,May6,2011(Finalversion06/20/2011) 1

HudsonRiverSustainableShorelinesProject
AdvisoryTeamMeeting2
May6,2011

MeetingSummary

Present:
JessicaBacher(PaceLandUseLawCenter)
KristenCadySawyer(NYSOPRHP)
MarkCastiglione(HudsonRiverGreenway)
EmmaCattafi(Amtrak)
ShawnDalton(ThriveConsulting)
BonnieDevine(NYSDeptofState)
ElizabethFierman(CBI)
RickGilbert(BlueShoreEngineering)
SvenHoeger(CreativeHabitatCorp.)
NordicaHolochuck(NewYorkSeaGrant)
CaseyHolzworth(NYSOPRHP)
LouKaufman(TheONeillGroup)
KurtKress(NYSOPRHP)
GregLampman(NYSERDA)
JacobLevine(FEMA/HUD)
KalleMatso(UNewHampshire)
BarneyMolloy(HistoricHudsonRiverTowns)
MelanieMoore(NYSDECHRNERR)
WernerMueller(HDRInc.)
FredNuffer(StateEmergencyMgmtOffice)
KarlRoecker(NYSOPRHP)
DougSchroeder(MetroNorthRailroad)
MikeShaughnessy(UlsterSavingsBank)
JoshThiel(NYSDEC)
DavidVanLuven(Consultant)
LarryWilson(NYSDEC)
LeslieZucker(NYSDEC/Cornell)

CoordinatingTeam
BetsyBlair(NYSDECHRNERR)
OnaFerguson(CBI)
StuartFindlay(CaryInstitute)
EmilieHauser(NYSDECHRNERR)
KristenMarcell(NYSDEC)
DanMiller(NYSDEC)
JonMiller(StevensInstitute)
KathieWeathers(CaryInstitute)

Allpresentationsandhandoutsfromthismeetingcanbefoundat:http://cbuilding.org/sustshorelines.

Handouts,includingthoseprovidedbeforethemeeting:
Agenda
BlairDraftSustainableShorelinesProjectOverview
Dalton/ThriveLessonsLearnedandRecommendations
Dalton/ThriveDecisionMakingRegardingShorelineDesignandManagement(draft)
CBILessonsLearnedandRecommendations
CaryIESEcologicalBrochure
StevensInstituteBulkheadsengineeringonepager
StevensInstituteRevetmentsengineeringonepager

Welcome&Introductions

BetsyBlair,PI,andOnaFergusonwelcomedeveryonetothesecondAdvisoryTeammeeting.The
meetingwasconvenedtogetfeedbackonresultsfromresearchcarriedoutinthelastyearandto
receiveguidanceonplansformovingforward.

SustainableShorelinesAdvisoryTeamMeetingNotes,May6,2011(Finalversion06/20/2011) 2

ProjectStatusandOverview

BetsyBlairpresentedtheDraftSustainableShorelinesProjectOverviewdocument,whichdescribesthe
projectvision,purpose,history,subprojectsandproducts.ThepurposeoftheHudsonRiverSustainable
Shorelineprojectistoprovidesciencebasedinformationaboutthebestshorelinemanagementoptions
forpreservingimportantnaturalfunctionsfortheHudsonRiverEstuarysshorezone.Theprojecthas
fivemainobjectives:

1. Characterizepresentandfutureestuaryandshorelineconditions
2. Determineecological,engineeringandeconomictradeoffsofshorelinemanagementoptions
3. Characterizeshorelinedecisionmakingarenasandopportunities
4. Demonstrateinnovativeshorelinesandbestmanagementpractices
5. Createshorelinedecisiontoolsandcommunicateresults

Betsydescribedcompleted,ongoingandplannedworkundereachobjective,withinputfrom
CoordinatingTeamMembers.Therewilllikelybeseparateworkshopsormeetingsaboutafewprojects
incomingmonths,includingeconomicanalysis,demonstrationsites,physicalforcesmodeling,and
decisionmakingtools(seebelowformoreinformation).

Inadditiontothepointscoveredinthedocumentandpowerpoint,Betsynotedthattheprojectaimsto
helptheregionprepareforchangesinclimate,waterlevels,anderosion.Theprojectdoesnotadvocate
foraparticulartypeofshoreline,butratherconsidershowtobestmeetcommunityneedsinawaythat
bestfosterscontinuedshorelinefunctions.Thisprojectisunusualbecauseitisinterdisciplinary,
collaborative,partneranduserfocused,andfacilitated.Theprojectisnowinitssecondphase,which
includesdetailedecologicalanalyses(bytheCaryInstituteofEcosystemStudies);indepthstudiesofice,
currentsandwakes(bytheStevensInstituteofTechnology);ademonstrationproject(ledbythe
HudsonRiverNationalEstuaryResearchReserve);andthecreationoftoolsfordecisionmakers.

Participantswereaskedforfeedbackongaps,redundanciesorleapsoflogicintheOverviewDocument,
linkagesthatshouldbemadebetweenthisandotherefforts,andtheutilityofprojectcomponentsand
products.Participantscomments,questions,andsuggestionsgenerallyaddressedthefollowingtopics
andthemes(repliesareinitalics):

Withregardtodecisionmakingtools,theprojectshouldidentifywhoandwhatisdriving
shorelinemodificationstohappen,sothatitcantargetinformationtothemostinfluential
peopleanddecisionmakers(forexampleregulatoryagenciesandtheArmyCorpsofEngineers).
Keepinmindthatregulatoryagenciesarenotmonolithic.Findpeoplewhohavebroader
influenceandcanseethebigpicture,understandwhothepersonrepresentswithintheirown
agency,andhowtheyinteractwithothersintheiragency.Itsagoodideatobeinregular
contactwithourshorelineregulators.WehaveaDECregulatorheretoday,andwemightwant
toconsiderengagingsomeonefromtheArmyCorps.
Itisimportanttobeclearabouthowthisworkrelatestopolicyandregulatorydecisions,and
thatitbeperceivedashelpingstreamlinedecisionsratherthancreatingadditionalregulatory
hurdles.Forexample,workcouldresultinthecreationofmodelshorelineguidelinesthat
municipalitiescouldadopt.Aworkshoponlegalandregulatoryissueswouldbehelpfultoo.We
hopetheworkwillhelpagenciesdevelopcoordinatedguidelines,particularlyforestuarywide
SustainableShorelinesAdvisoryTeamMeetingNotes,May6,2011(Finalversion06/20/2011) 3
issueslikeclimatechangeimpacts.Wedontintendittobecomeanotherregulatorylayer.The
workJessicaBacherofPaceLandUseLawCenterisdoingshouldhelpusidentifyhowwecan
bestinformregulationsandpolicy.
Thisprojectshouldprovideinformationonavarietyofshorelineoptions,tomakepeopleaware
ofthealternatives,ratherthanmandatingaparticularapproach.
Materialsproducedfromthisprojectshouldbeeasilyaccessiblebythepublic.Forexample,GIS
workshouldbeavailableinaformatthatdoesnotrequirespecialsoftware.
Whenresearcherscollectinformationonshorelineconditions,theycouldconsultexisting
informationaboutwhatcommunitieshopetheirshorelineswillbelikeinthefuture.

ShorelineDecisionMaking:ChallengesandOpportunities

ShawnDaltonsummarized26keyinformantsemistructuredinterviewssheconductedtotryto
understandhowdecisionsaremade,howexpertsandlandownersinteract,andwhetherclimate
changeandsealevelriseareincorporatedintoshorelineplanningalongtheHudson.Thestudy,though
limited,yieldedhelpfulinformationabouttrends,challengesandinformationneeds.Shawnsummarized
herinterviewfindingsandrecommendations.

OnaFergusonsummarizedfivecasestudiesthatlookedatshorelinedevelopmentprojectsonthe
Hudsonplannedand/orcarriedoutinrecentyears.Thisresearchincludeddocumentreviewand
interviewswith11peopleinvolvedwiththeprojects,andsoughttoidentifythereasonswhydecision
makersateachsiteselectedtheirfinalshorelinetreatment(s)andwhatstepsandprocesseswere
involvedinimplementingtheproject.Thesummaryreportprovidesquicksnapshotofeachcaseandkey
lessonslearned,whichOnasharedwiththegroup.

Participantswereaskedtocommentonthefindingsofthesetwopiecesofresearchandtheir
implications.Participantsfeedbackincludedthefollowingtopicsandthemes(responsesareinitalics):

Whenthinkingaboutwhycertainchoicesaremadeandchallengestoadoptionofsofter
shorelines,considerthatengineersanddeveloperstypicallyneedliabilityprotection,especially
whenusingalternative(innovative)designs.Indemnificationlanguageincontractingisoneway
tohandleliability.Goodguidelinesonbestpracticescanalsohelpreduceliability.
Collaboration,networkingandinformationsharingamongshorelineexpertsandprofessionals
aredifficultbecauseofthecompetitionamongdevelopers,engineers,etc.
Educationcertificationsinwhichparticipantsreceiveprofessionalcontinuingeducationcredit
couldbeoneavenueforeducatingprofessionalsaboutalternativeshoredesigntechniques.
Thereisnocommonunderstandingofwhatwemeanbysoftshoreline.Consideralternative
termssuchasecologicallyenhanced,bioengineered,ornaturalshorelines.
Itisimportanttorecognizethattherewillalwaysbelargescalecatastrophicnaturaleventsthat
willdestroyeventhebestdesignedshorelines,regardlessofwhethertheyarehardorsoft.
Ourchallengeistodevelopanappropriatedesignlevelforsoftershorelines,sothatwecanset
anappropriatestandardwhilerecognizingthatanyhumansystemcanbedestroyedbythe
elementsandsuchcatastrophicevents.
Anotherbarriertoadoptingsoftershorelinetreatmentsispurchasingitiseasierandquicker
toacquiresomematerialsthanothers(forexample,thoseonthestatecontractareeasy).
SustainableShorelinesAdvisoryTeamMeetingNotes,May6,2011(Finalversion06/20/2011) 4
Whenchoosingshorelinetreatments,rememberwhatisbeingprotectedandwhatmaterials
arealreadyinplace.Forexampleifabulkheadisalreadyinplace,maybeweshouldworkwith
it;ifashorelineisinitsnaturalstate,maybewewanttoavoidaddinganymaterialsatall.

FurtherContributionsofSocialSciencestoHudsonRiverSustainableShorelinesProject

ShawnDaltongaveapresentationonhowsocialsciencescouldbevaluablefortheSustainable
Shorelinesproject.Socialsciencescouldshedlightonthehumanaspectsoftheprojectobjectives,and
couldhelpinformourunderstandingofwhattreatmentsaresustainablefromasocialperspective.
Surveysand/ormarketstudiescouldteachuswhatpeoplealongtheHudsonpreferintermsof
shorelinesandhowwemightsellsoftshorelines.Topicspecificfocusgroupscouldalsobeinformative
whilebuildingtrustamongdifferentstakeholders.Thereisnofundingavailableforthisworkyet,but
fundscouldbepursuedifthisworkwouldbeuseful.

Participantsfeedbackincludedthefollowingtopicsandthemes:

Bothinformationaboutpublicopinionandfocusgroupscouldbehelpfulfordifferentpurposes.
Focusgroupscouldhelpgatherreactionstospecificprojectsandideas,whereaslearningabout
generalpublicperceptionscouldhelpinformtheprojectmorebroadly.
Itcanbehardtocapturepreferencesregardingriverandshorelineusesandaesthetics,since
theychangeovertimeanddependingonsituations.
Lookingatdifferentuserpreferences(i.e.usersonshoreandintheriver)mightbehelpful.
Perhapsthisworkcouldpiggybackontootherexistingorongoingefforts,suchastheOur
HudsonTour,thatarealreadyfocusedontalkingwithpeopleandpursuingsocialscience
objectives.Aliteraturereviewofexistingeffortsmightbethebestplacetostart.
Dataonwhopopulatestheshorelinecouldhelpusunderstandwhoismostaffectedby
shorelinedecisions,whothedecisionmakersare,etc.
Inadditiontopeople,theprojectshouldbesuretoidentifyareasofimportance,suchasscenic
areasofstatewidesignificance.
Framingtheissuesisanimportantconsiderationforanysocialscienceinitiatives,asreaching
outofteninvitescriticism,ratherthanpositivefeedbackorsuggestions.
Shorelinesarentnecessarilyonpeoplesradarsthisprojectbroadlymayhelpraisetheprofile
ofshorelinesandrelatedissuesandconcerns.
OtherhelpfultoolsmightincludeFacebook,theinternet,easilyadoptablepolicyexamples,and
communicationtoolstoinformdecisionmakers,
Itisnotclearthatsocialscienceworkfitsintothefocusofthisproject,whichseemstobeto
gatherscientificinformationthatcantheninformdecisions.

OutreachandSharingResults,ProjectGuidance,WrapUp,NextSteps

Participantswereaskedforfeedbackonproductsthathadbeendevelopedsofar,includingthe
ecologicalbrochureandengineeringonepagersonbulkheadsandrevetments.Incomingmonths,
projectleaderswillbeworkingtocreateauniformlookforallprojectproductssoproductsareclearly
associatedwiththeHudsonRiverSustainableShorelinesProject,althoughauthorswillbecreditedfor
theirwork.Anotherintentistocreateawebsitefortheproject.

SustainableShorelinesAdvisoryTeamMeetingNotes,May6,2011(Finalversion06/20/2011) 5
Participantsrecommendedthinkingfromtheoutsetofanysubprojectwhothetargetaudienceisand
howresultswillbedisseminated.Inthisprojecttheprimaryaudienceisprobablylocalandstate
regulatorsandpolicymakers.Othertargetaudiencesareexperts,consultants,municipalofficials,and
advocates.Peoplelikedtheecologicalbrochure,notingthattheformatiseasytoreadandthelistsand
bulletscanbeeasilyunderstoodbypolicymakersandofficials.Peopleindicatedtheneedforakey
wheremoreinformationcanbefoundinadditiontotheengineeringonepagers,andJonMillerwhois
inchargeoftheengineeringworksaidtheonepagersarepartofasuiteofinformationanddocuments
thatwillallbelinkedtogether.

Incomingmonthstherewilllikelybeseveraltopicspecificworkshopstohelpadvanceparticularsub
projects.Participantswereinvitedtoindicatetheirinterestinparticipating,andvolunteeredasfollows:

1. Costs&EconomicsofTradeoffsTodiscusswhatmethodswecouldusetoassessselected
ecosystemservices,whatthecostsofeachwouldbe,andhowdefensibleandusefultheresults
wouldbe.BarneyMolloy,CaseyHolzworth,andDougSchroeder.

2. ModelingToconsiderhowthedifferentmodelingeffortsalongtheHudsonfittogether.Kathie
Weathers,EmilieHauserandKristenMarcell

3. DecisionMakingToolsTolookatthefinalproductswewanttoproduce.BarneyMolloy,
BonnieDevine,DougSchroeder,JacobLevine,KathyWeathers,MarkCastiglioneandRick
Gilbert.

4. DemonstrationSitesToconsiderwhichsiteswillbechosen,andhowapotentialnetwork
wouldwork.BonnieDevine,CaseyHolzworth,DougSchroeder,KurtKress,LarryWilsonand
WernerMueller.

BetsyBlairandOnaFergusonadjournedthemeeting.Participantssaidtheywouldliketomeetagainas
afullAdvisoryTeamin46months.Inthemeantime,thesmallerCoordinatingTeamwillorganizethe
workshopsandcirculatedocumentsandproductsforfeedback.