interview.

GIRLISH
FIGURES:
A COLLECTION OF
PSYCHOANALYTIC
THEORIES AND RED
LIPSTICK
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"Does this make my scrotum

look big?" Mary Anne Carter
asked earnestly, tugging at
the folds of dusty pink fabric
that gathered between her
knees. Frigid from the thirty-
eight degree weather and
brisk winds that penetrated
her phallic frock faster than
Laura Mulvey could say
"sexual objectification," she
struggled not to shiver as she
summoned the spirits of our
psychoanalytic forefathers and
feminist followers.
Dancing between shards of
glass and rusty debris in the
abandoned slaughterhouse,
she stripped down and suited
up to model her latest fashion
collection: Girlish Figures.
Inspired by the psychoanalytic
theories of Freud and Lacan,
power relations of Foucault,
and essays of Mulvey and
Linker, the collection seeks to
define women through the
voices of postmodernism.
Rogue trekked through wilted
fields of frost and rocky
riverbeds to speak with Carter
on the set of her shoot.
Between takes, we captured
the following exclusive
Carter organizes her collection at the site of the shoot
Rogue: It's thirty-eight degrees and our socks are covered with
burrs. This slaughterhouse might as well be a licensed
distribution center for tetanus, and yet, you're running
around...barefoot. Why choose such a secluded, risky spot for
your shoot?
Carter: Fashion is about risks. Psychoanalytic theory is about
stepping on toes. Feminists don't just sit indoors if they want to
get their point across. They get out there. If Mulvey and Linker
wrote about safe topics, we wouldn't have the impassioned
essays that made people sit back and think. Even if you
disagree, you have to hand it to them... they were brave. That's
what I hope to communicate with my fashion collection. You
don't have to like it, but I do want people to look at it and think.
Rogue: That's what it's all about, right? Thinking.
Carter: Absolutely. Postmodernism is all about taking old ideas
and rethinking. You then have this new idea, this new art, that is
so much more powerful than the ideas others just accept. It
doesn't have to make sense. It just has to be.
Rogue: You've certainly reworked old ideas through this
fashion collection: you said much of it is vintage?
Carter: Yes, that is one thing
that is pretty consistent in
each of the looks and all of my
work. I love reworking old
pieces to create something
completely original. Every
piece of the
“It’s subjecting people to postmodernist
thinking and feminism indirectly and
unknowingly. It’s
collection was bought
second hand or created out
of second hand fabric. It
makes for an incredibly
diverse collection at an
affordable price, with terrific
history. The phallic jumpsuit,
for example, was made from
a pink floor length dress. It
was oversized and ruffled in
a way only a true prude
would enjoy. I love that the
elegant fabric that once
clothed a housewife at
church is now a scrotum. It's
subjecting people to post
modernist thinking and
feminism indirectly and
unknowingly. It's poetic
terrorism.
Rogue: [Laughs] Hakim Bey
would be proud.
Carter: I truly hope so... I
have so much respect for
Bey and Acker and Tillman
and the like. People who
took these ideas, and
poetic terrorism.”
reworked them in their own
way. People who sacrificed
social acceptance for their
art. Not to say they weren't
successful... They lucked
out. So many before them,
and so many after them have
spent their lives trying to
convey these ideas and just
been ignored, or shunned.
But all of them, successful or
not, they took a risk. That's
moving. That's what we
need.
Rogue: Your own collection,
it's risky. I can't really
imagine seeing too many
phalluses wandering the
grocery store, or victims of
castration browsing the
laundry detergent.
Carter: Well, that’s the point.
It's couture. Like these
theories, they aren't meant to
be "ready wear." They are
meant to inspire, to breed
future collections of more
accessible garments. That's
when you know you've made
it. It's like Roland Barthes'
idea of "work" and "text."
Text is radically symbolic. It’s
a paradox, a subversive
force. It’s not readable or
rational. Although this
collection is not a true "text,"
because it is traceable and
based on previous ideas, the
idea of a couture fashion
collection is. Its unwearable,
it’s not rational. It’s created
as clothing, whose sole
purpose of being worn, yet
so many of the looks are not
substantial enough for
warmth or coverage, so they
cannot be worn. But they can
inspire. Like text inspires
work, I hope to see other
designers catching on and
making their own collections
based on mine, like Mulvey
and Linker did to
psychoanalytic theory.
Rogue: I hope so too.
There's nothing that would
be more fulfilling than to walk
into Target and find a
postmodern section,
somewhere between the
maternity wear and the
juniors department.
Carter: [Laughs] Or maybe,
maybe they would have an
anti-maternity wear section.
Carter: Well, It wasn't an
intentional stab at deterring
men from being attracted to me
or anything. But I've always felt
that any woman could look
feminine and "attractive" with
long flowing hair and red lips.
But true beauty is found in the
woman who embraces her
features as being feminine
enough without the extras. I
shaved my head this summer,
which was one of the most
liberating feelings in my life. It
was around that time that I
picked up my first Acker novel.
She stared at me from a friend's
bookshelf, and I knew I was in
love. I started reading Blood
and Guts in High School and
suddenly this collection fell into
place.
Rogue: All over matching
hair-dos.
For those women rejecting
the idea of child bearing, as
a feminine choice.
Rogue: Full of sheer
garments and skintight pants
for the 40-somethings that
still don't need a bra or a butt
lift.
Carter: How domestic of me.
[Laughs]
Rogue: Perhaps it was this
hidden domestic side that
inspired you to model all the
looks yourself?
Carter: [Laughs] Oh of
course. It's all about my
narcissistic desire to have
my picture taken. [Laughs]
No, really that was
intentional, and not because
I wanted to play dress up.
Each of the theories and
works that the collection is
based on serves to
generalize for the whole
female population. I wanted
to reflect the same idea
through the photo shoot and
fashion show. Somehow, all
of them think their theory is
the right one. For everyone.
Just how each of my looks I
created were worn by me,
even if they were in conflict
with each other as a
collection.
Rogue: I see. Do you mind
going through your looks and
giving a brief overview of
how they represent the
Carter: Exactly. Or maybe
the opposite: baggy clothing
and bulky sweaters to
disguise the female form.
Rogue: Ah, that too would
work. Speaking of
androgyny, I see you've
subscribed to that look
yourself. Tell me a little about
that.
theories and works?
Carter: Of course. Well I
started the collection with my
Freudian, Oedipus Complex
dress. It's white and very
classically Greek, which I
thought was appropriate both
because he is the classic
psychoanalytic theorist, and
Oedipus Rex is a classic
Greek story. Similarly, the
hair and makeup was very
classically female,
but to American standards, in
an ironic way. I got to wear
this ridiculous blonde wig
and bright red lipstick. I
looked like a victim of the
female form. The focus of the
piece though was the
"castration belt." I fashioned
a belt with two red,
flamboyant tassels. They
jiggled perfectly while I
walked and truly captured
Castration Anxiety. Finally, I
have this white bag with a
giant red penis on
emblazoned on the front, to
represent Penis Envy. In
today's society, women
aren't so much outwardly
concerned with having a
penis, so much as the

perfect handbag and
accessories. I combined the
idea of "handbag envy" with
"penis envy."
Rogue: Makes sense to me.
Carter: That's what I like to
hear. Anyway, my next look
was based on Lacan's theory
of the Mirror Stage. I found
this black dress with metallic
silver lace over it, and cut out
all but the front, so that when
I walk, you first see a mirror-
like silver and black garment,
but from the back, its just
mirrored lace and flesh. It is
based on the idea of looking
through a mirror and
capturing your own image.
And like Lacanian theory,
with my exposed body as the
reflection, I would hope it's
pretty captivating.[Laughs].
Rogue: [Laughs] And how
did you accessorize the
dress?
Carter: I used mirrored
jewelry I found or cobbled
together and some silver
makeup for obvious reasons,
but left my hair natural. The
theory is all about the
process of identification and
self, so I wanted it to be me
in my purest form, plus mirror
imagery.
Rogue: I see. Your next look
was based on Foucault,
correct?
Carter: It was. It was
inspired by the idea of a
constant power struggle, so I
both. Which only ends in a perpetual struggle.”
absence of a sex, it is the presence of
“It’s the opposite of androgyny. Instead of the
updated a classic men's
"power suit," broadening the
shoulders with bright red
fabric and accessorizing with
a red briefcase to symbolize
the baggage of struggle, as
well as some form fitting
tights and red heels. Red is
such a perfectly symbolic
color for this look, because it
represents any number of
things from pain, to passion,
to menstruation and coming
of age, to courage, sacrifice,
power and masculinity. All of
these factors are present in
the power struggle. It’s a
symbolic play on the literal
idea of a power suit, because
I intentionally increased the
most masculine shape, the
shoulders, and the most
feminine shape, the hips. It’s
the opposite of androgyny.
Instead of the absence of a
sex, it is the presence of
both. Which only ends in a
perpetual struggle.
Rogue: My only question is
why Foucault? Your other
looks are all influenced
directly by psychoanalytic
theory, and Foucault was a
firm rejecter.
Carter: Well, first of all, that
isn't exactly true. Foucault
was not a rejecter of
psychoanalysis, and in fact
cited Freud as an influence
of his work. He just believed
that psychoanalytic theory
was centered around the
creation of the "disciplinary
society." Plus, he gets a bad concept of repression in
rap for his critique of the volume one of The History of
central psychoanalytic Sexuality. But all in all,
Foucault's ideas do have There's not much he can do Rogue: Absolutely.
some psychoanalytic basis. about it.
And either way, he was a Carter: Goodness. Anyway,
critical force in the Rogue: Did the fact that he onward with my last two
postmodern movement. died from an aids related looks?
illness influence the use of
Rogue: Even though he red in your piece? Rogue: Yes, continue.
rejected being clumped
together with post Carter: Please tell me you Carter: Well the last two are
modernists and favored asked that only to see if Bob both about how women are
association with Nietzsche Siegle was actually reading perceived in film and the
and Kant. this. cinema. The first is Linker,
who expressed that women,
Carter: Yes. He's dead.
because they have no penis, are simply a lack. Thus, I made a
flesh colored mask and leotard to make a look as blank and
lacking as possible. The last look was the phallic jumpsuit,
based on Mulvey's idea that the feminine form is actually phallic. I
described it a bit before, but I basically turned this dowdy dress
upside down and reworked it so my feet go through the
armholes, leaving this terrific crepey sack between my knees.
When I squat, I get full scrotum action.

Rogue: Full scrotum action, eh?

Carter: That's what we're all after, right? Anyway, I wore it with a
pink vintage hat with this fabulous netting across my face, and
topped it with a white feather boa. I get to have wild orgasms and
ejaculate all over the place. It's any phallus's fantasy.
Rogue: How do you plan to
Rogue: Wow. This collection sounds pretty amazing. You
get your collection out there,
definitely put some thought in to it.
beyond the fashion elite?
Carter: I did. I really tried to make these theories come to life
Carter: Well, I of course
through clothing. Being a fashion designer is one industry
hope the fashion elite will
females traditionally dominate. And why not push it even further?
pick up on it, and as I
I want people to see this and question what they can do to
mentioned, run with it in their
challenge society. Just like Acker influenced
QuickTimeª and a me.
TIFF (Uncompressed) decompressor own work. But until then, I
are needed to see this picture. created a short film that
introduces the collection with
a blend of old footage from
documentaries and
educational videos that are
just so overwhelmingly
domestic and patriarchal you
don't know whether to laugh
or cry, and some footage
from the show we shot this afternoon.
Carter: It's been a pleasure.
Rogue: And it's available online?

Carter: Yes. It's at:

http://vimeo.com/8036093 Left: Carter models her

Freudian “Oedipus Dress,” in
Rogue: So this is Bob Siegle’s cue to check it out. a promotional film for the
collection.
Carter: Exactly.

Rogue: Well thank you for taking the time to talk to us and great
luck with your upcoming shows.