Feb

Do you go straight to Heaven when you die?

19 comments so far
Probably one of the most controversial topics among people today is what happens to a person after
they die. Are the dead really dead? Do they know anything, do they go straight to heaven when they
die are they sent to purgatory or even s0me other place maybe even hell? The fact is we all know
that our bodies are terminal, we will someday die, this is a question we all just be desiring an answer
to. What consolation and insight does the Bible give to us on the subject of death? Does the Bible
clearly give an answer to the above questions? Can we truly be certain what happens to the dead? I
firmly believe we can, so join me in this study as we uncover the truth about death.
As always I ask that you pray before you study, ask God to lead and guide you as you study this
important topic. That His light will clearly show the truth the Bible says His word is a light unto our
path. And He has promised that the truth will set us free. So as we study this topic let us be open to
the truth of God and what the scriptures say.
Alexander Bogomoletz, a Russian scientist, once said that a man should live to be at least 150 years
of age. He actually prepared a serum that was designed to retard the aging process of the connective
tissues of the body. Unfortunately, the learned doctor died at the age of 64, just 86 years short of the
goal he had set for himself and for all mankind. And we still do not understand the mysteries of life
and death.
What does the Bible actually teach about the human existence, are we immortal beings with a
temporary stop after death? Do we even live on past our death, or do we sleep eternally never more
to rise? Thankfully the Bible sheds light on the subject.
Hebrews 9:26-27 gives us a blessed hope to look forward to
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to
bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from
sin, for salvation
Please read that verse carefully, you will note that it states that judgment comes after death there
are apparently two conclusions two this verse. First, when a person dies they go straight to heaven or
some other place where they are judged and then they are sent to either heaven or hell after they
have been processed for shipment. The second option is that there is one judgment when all the dead
will be judged together if this latter idea is indeed what the Bible teaches then it would stand to
reason that the dead would remain in the ground right? But we know that the Bible interprets itself so
lets keep studying
When studying the scriptures we must build scripture upon scripture, precept upon precept. This is
the surest way of knowing the truth and it is what the Bible teaches us to do. If we base our belief on
a doctrine solely on one verse in the Bible there is a good chance we have taken it out of context, but
if we study all the verses on a subject we find the truth. So lets see if the Bible has a consistent
teaching on the judgment coming after death. Lets turn to 2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things
done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad
These verses are clear about one thing, sometime after death there is a judgment of mankind but
we still have not seen clear evidence of when this judgment will take place. If we ended our study at
this point we could be quite confused, but thankfully the Bible is not illusive.
To find the answer to the question, when will the judgment take place, lets turn to 2 Thessalonians
1:3-10 we will pick it up in verses 7-10
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his
mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our
Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory
of his power;
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because
our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
I think these verses make it clear that there is a judgment at Christs coming when the dead will be
punished for their deeds and the righteous will be taken to heaven but some could argue this is just
for those who are alive at the time of Christs appearing and does not include the dead. This is a valid
point but if we turn to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 we find that it clears that question right up as well
13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye
sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God
bring with him.
15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the
coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and
with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words
Are we all together on verse 13, that Jesus is referring to death when He uses the word sleep? I will
get into that more later in the article when we get into Lazaruss death.
For those of you who like the basic English, the Basic English Bible translates verse 15 by saying
those who are alive will not precede those who are sleeping.
Lets analyze these verses those of us who are privileged to live up till the very day of Christs
appearing will not precede those who have fallen asleep prior to this time what does this mean? That
the dead have gone up first? Verse 16 tells us very clearly it says the dead in Christ shall rise
first is that not clear? We will not go before those who have died, but not because they are in
heaven already, because they will arise out of their graves before we are taken into the air. So many
pastors and teachers quote this verse out of context and miss the truth it so clearly teaches if only
they would read the whole chapter they would see the whole picture.
For reiteration of this fact lets turn to 1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead
shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
I love the KJV and generally it is what I use but I like for this verse anyways how the Gods Word
Translation says it:
It will happen in an instant, in a split second at the sound of the last trumpet. Indeed, that trumpet
will sound, and then the dead will come back to life. They will be changed so that they can live
forever
Note: they will be changed SO THAT they can live forever the Bible tells us in Romans 6:23 that the
gift of God is eternal life that is immortality. We are mortal beings and when we die that is the end
our only hope is the resurrection of the dead at the last trump. And I might add that is hope enough
but until we are changed we can not live forever, not until we are given immortal bodies can we reign
in heaven. And we are told in these verses that will only happen when Christ comes.
I cant find anyway to interpret these verses other then their literal sense, that the dead sleep until
Christ comes, He resurrects them, changes them by giving them new immortal bodies and then takes
us all to heaven. But for those of you who are still not sure, perhaps you have been taught all your
life, that the dead go straight to heaven when they die. Wanting valid proof from the Bible is a good
thing, so lets look at some other verses which reiterate some of these facts we are learning.
Acts 2:29
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and
buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day
Its almost as if Peter feels the need to reiterate the same thought, which can easily be reconciled by
the studying the Pharisees who believed and taught that you went to heaven when you died.
Acts 2:34
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit
thou on my right hand,
John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graveswill hear His voice
and come forth those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done
evil, to the resurrection of condemnation
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more
a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten
Two things to note, first the dead know nothing, if they are either in hell or heaven they would know
it right? Secondly they have no reward, Christ is clear that when they are judged they get their
reward, whether they are righteous or wicked so if they have not been rewarded or judged then
they cant be sent to either heaven or hell can they?
There are some Christians who trying to make the Biblical description work for what they believe say
that when Christ comes in that resurrection day, when the dead will be raised God brings the dead
back from heaven and they return for their bodies the fallacy of this statement can be clearly seen in
1st Corinthians 15:52 we quoted above, we are all going to be changed in the twinkling of an eye AT
the second resurrection does this mean that until Christ comes back the righteous dead who went to
heaven have their old bodies? That is ridiculous the fact is friends the Bible no where teaches that
the dead do anything but sleep till the resurrection of Christ.
There are a few verses that Christians use to try and explain the inconsistency between what the
Bible teaches and what man teaches they quote verses such as Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise
The problem is how most people quote it, they put the comma in the wrong place. You see, when the
Bible is teaching and reiterating a fact such as the dead know nothing, that they sleep until the
resurrection, they have no reward till they are judged, and that they will be raised at the second
coming, when we have all these reiterations and one lone verse appearing to discredit the rest it is
usually our false perception of that verse. For instance the verse above, if we put the comma after the
word today then it clearly fits into the teaching of the other verses we provided. If we put it before
today then it contradicts the rest of the Bible. In the Hebrew language there are no commas so when
the translators made the translation they had the misunderstanding that the dead went to paradise
after death(the righteous anyways) and so they misplaced the comma. The Bible has never
contradicted itself however many it his attempts to interpret the Bible sometimes does. We need to be
careful that we dont base out theology on one verse if the rest of the Bible teaches something
different.
But what about the spirit of the dead? Doesnt the Bible say the spirit returns to God?
Yes it does lets read hat verse now. Lets turn to Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it
You need to pay close attention to this verse the teaching among Christians generally is that there
is a paradise and a hell where the righteous and wicked go, respectively after death. But this verse
does not make any delineation between wicked or righteous, it says all who die, their spirits return to
God. And in the previous verses we have looked at, we have learned that not everyone goes to
heaven. So I guess to solve this we need to ask the question, what is this spirit?
The original Hebrew word for spirit in this verse is ruach pronounced pretty close to how it sounds
interestingly in the original Hebrew it means wind; by resemblance breath, figuratively life. In other
words this spirit is actually the life of the individual, the breath of the human, when the spirit leaves
them they die. I also want you to notice the verse stating return twice, the dust which is our bodies
returns to the earth and the spirit which is our life returns to God none of us as of yet have been to
heaven, so if this verse means the spirit goes to heaven we are returning to a place we have never
been? This is in fact talking about our life that God has blessed each of us with and does not mean
that we go to heaven.
If you goto James 2:26 it says For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is
dead also
This word spirit is the Greek word pneuma but means the same thing as the word Ruach and that is
breath or air. It is actually where we get the word Pneumatic or Pneumonia today.
But to wrap up this whole question of what the spirit is we need to go back to the beginning. Lets
read Genesis 2:7 to get a better understanding of what this verse is talking about when it talks about
the spirit or breath of a human.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of
life; and man became a living soul
Question! Before God breathing life into Adam, was Adams spirit floating around somewhere in some
conscience or sub-conscience state? I would think most of us would say not, yet we believe somehow
after death that our spirit floats around somewhere without our bodies
This spirit which we now know is our breath which is in our nostrils COMBINED with the body we all
should be on the same page here. That is how we breath right? It doesnt take a great deal of
knowledge to understand that when we are not breathing we are dead. And since God has only lent us
the breath we use it is only logical that when we die it returns to Him, the giver. Does that make
sense?
There is something in the above verse many miss even though it is staring them right in the face
the verse says that God formed man out of the dust of the ground AND breathed into Adams nostrils
and THEN man became a living soul God did not add a living soul to Adam, the Bible doesnt say
and then Adam had a living soul the Bible says that Adam BECAME a living soul. This is VERY
significant because it is the unite, the body AND the breath that creates the soul. When we die the
body is separated from the breath, neither one exists without the other the body rots away and the
breath returns to heaven from whence it came. I cant overstress the importance of this fact, we are
only living conscious beings when the body is united with the living breath of God separated we are
in a state called death where we know nothing.
Paul say in Romans that the gift of God is eternal life? That is the same thing as immortality, we are
mortal beings, when we die our thoughts cease, our breath and life returns to God cause HE is the one
who gave it, it does not mean there are thousands of floating spirits without bodies in heaven waiting
for the resurrection when they can return to earth, grab their old bodies and then have them changed
into new truthfully does that make any sense? Not to me it doesnt I hope we are all on the same
page on the spirit of a body now, I think that Genesis has made it quite clear that the spirit = body +
breath = life. So body breath = death. If you want more verses supporting this just email me.
But I want to reiterate this fact one last time so there is no doubt in your mind lets turn to Psalm
104:29
29) Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to
their dust
If you look at the original Hebrew the word breath in this text is the same exact word used in
Ecclesiastes which was interpreted there as spirit. It is the word Ruach which again means breath in
the Bible they are interchangeable because the translators used both spirit and breath at different
times but it was always the same Hebrew word. So the only reason there is controversy is because the
original translators didnt know how to translate the word in different situations.
Let me try and use an allegory I heard another preacher use, lets assume there are nails and a
board we have two items. Now lets say we take a hammer and nail the nails into the boards creating
a box we now have 1 item. Now if we were to pull those nails out what will have happened to the
box? It ceased to exist because like the living spirit it requires two things together to be the box
required the nails and boards together just like the living spirit requires the breath of God and the
human body to become living. I am sorry if I am reiterating this so much, I guess I am afraid your
like me, you have been told something all your life or have believed something and it is hard to wrap
your mind around something new and when we get set in our ways sometimes we have to have
someone hammer something home before we say ahh I get it that makes sense but if it is the
truth we must accept it even if it goes against everything we believe or perhaps want to believe.
I will give you two more verses to look up for yourself for further study of this Revelation 16:3 talks
about the living soul dieing, this makes it clear that the living soul is the unity of breath and body
which is the mortal body nothing more.
Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20 states that all have the same breath animals and man alike. That man has no
preeminence over beast when he dies that is to say if mans spirit floats around somewhere then
the animals spirits must as well what this verse is really saying is that once we die whether it is a
man or beast we turn to dirt, our life leaves us and we cease to be a living soul until Christ returns
this is the only concept which is inline with the rest of the Bible and because of that we must accept
it
When are the just rewarded?
Okay so we dont goto heaven/paradise or hell when we die then when are we rewarded for our
works? Lets turn to Luke 14:14 and see what Jesus said:
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed AT the
resurrection of the just
As far as I am concerned one verse of Jesus stating that the just are rewarded at the resurrection of
the earth is enough but the Bible has many such verses reiterating this fact such as Matthew 16:27.
The great thing about the Bible is that when God presents a truth He has it reiterated across the Bible
so that we can see it clearly. We dont have to guess about anything.
Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward
every man according to his works
Revelation 22:12 carries this same thought:
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his works
shall be
Paul has perhaps a more enlightening writing on this lets read it in 1st Corinthians 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality
Isnt this verse the verse right before it(1 Corinthians 15:52) that we looked at earlier? We CANNOT
go to heaven until we are changed from corruptible, mortal beings to incorruptible immortal beings
when does this happen, at death? Fortunately this is covered in the previous verse you will recognize
it.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead
shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
Doesnt everything fit together like a puzzle? Its interesting when Christians learn this truth, they are
like how could I of never seen that before? dont feel bad, many of us have come to that position
in our lives and it doesnt matter. The Bible says God winks at ignorance, it is only when we know the
truth and we dont accept it that we are in trouble.
We do not become immortal at death, we become immortal beings at the second resurrection. Every
single verse we have looked at reiterates this fact the reward is given at the second coming, not at
death.
But when are the wicked rewarded?
2nd Peter 2:9 sheds some light on this as well:
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day
of judgment to be punished:
Ahh so the wicked are reserved or kept till the day of judgement if you think about it this is only
fair. We just learned that the righteous remain in their graves and are only rewarded when Christ
comes the dead will also remain in the grave until Christs coming. How do we know this for sure?
Do you remember John 5:29 we quoted earlier? Here it is again:
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
and come forth those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done
evil, to the resurrection of condemnation
Do you see it now? The good are resurrected to life, they are given immortality, the wicked however
are resurrected to condemnation. Neither group however has been out of the grave since they died
this point should be clear in your mind by now okay think about this for a minute. The day of
judgement is when Christ comes right? That is shown in the above verses, would it be fair for God to
punish the wicked in hell or honor the righteous in heaven before their trial? It stands to reason that
they would be judged before their reward is given does it not?
Do you remember the story of Lazarus the friend of Jesus? And how Mary and Martha sent and asked
that Jesus would come heal him? Okay, now we probably all know Lazarus died before Christ came,
which we learn at the end of the story was Christs purpose all along. You can read the story in John
11 you will notice in this story Jesus refers to death as a sleep we can see this term used in other
parts of the new testament in reference to death such as Daniel 12:2 in reference to the resurrection.
So there is no confusion on what state Lazarus was in, he was dead to prove this Christ waited for 3
days to come and resurrect Lazarus, because according to the Jews up until 3 days after death there
was still a chance that the person could return to life, in other words had Christ raised Lazarus from
the dead prior to three days passing the people would have claimed he was never dead. But after the
3rd day they would be convinced there was no hope Christ did not want anyone to say that Lazarus
was not dead, He wanted all the glory for the resurrection of Lazarus.
What is significant, at least in my mind, is that in John 11:43 Christ says Lazarus come forth He
didnt say Lazarus come down wouldnt it be awful if Lazarus had went to heaven, he is walking on
the sea of glass and talking to Moses and just enjoying the majestic splendor of all heaven has to
offer and he hears this faint call from the earth Lazarus come down here no it cant be, God
cant be calling me back to that dark dismal planet called earth where sin still exists.
Yes, I know I am being a little facetious but I am attempting to make a point here. We have books
today which sell millions of copies, books which tell of the authors claimed experiences after death.
Interesting to note, most of these books see the authors going to heaven, how many write about their
experience in hell?
But anyways, my point is this, we see all these authors presenting their experience yet we find no
mention in the Bible of Lazaruss experience after death. Had Lazarus went to heaven, hell or some
other place would he not have told his story? The Bible is silent on this point cause Lazarus was dead
the whole time, he didnt go anywhere, hence there is no reason for a story, for he had none.
This was a difficult subject to write an article on, first of all there is so much controversy on where
the dead go after death. Then there is so many questions to answer and yet you want an article to be
relatively short so as not to lose the attention of your reader. Thankfully you are still reading I hope
if nothing else this article has drawn you to study the Bible more clearly for yourself. If you are still
unsure about this subject we encourage you to email us, we are ready and willing to sit down and
study with you personally via email. We want the same thing you do, the Biblical truth on these
subjects.
You can email me at randy [at]ebibleanswers[dot]com with any questions you might have. God Bless!
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19 Responses to Do you go straight to Heaven when you die?
1. Posted by Josh Jones16th July, 2009 at 8:19 am
hey what about in luke 16:19 31 when jesus is talking about the rich man and lazarus the poor
man outside his gateway? god bless you and grace be to you thank you for this article. but i just
had this one question
2. Posted by Cyanne1st November, 2009 at 10:16 am
Thank you for the biblical interpretation. I take it that when a person dies, he or shes spirit
returns to God in slumber, to be awakened on Resurrection Day?
What about the article Revelations of Heaven and Hell as depicted by the seven Columbian
youths? Are their visions real? Is the article believable?
3. Posted by glenn14th December, 2009 at 4:36 pm
great post, i just finished posting some studies on death on my blog too.
http://emmilglenn.wordpress.com/2009/12/04/breathdustsoul-the-truth-about-death-part-2/
4. Posted by Randy14th December, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Glenn, good article!
BTW for the benefit of the community, I have answered Cyannes question in a personal email.
If anyone has the same question feel free to email me and I will be happy to answer any
questions.
5. Posted by Randy28th January, 2010 at 10:54 pm
For those interested this question has been answered in a recent article
here:http://www.ebibleanswers.com/blog/the-rich-man-and-lazarus/
Questions or comments are welcome. Send them to randy[at]1st-rankings[dot]com
God Bless, Randy
6. Posted by The Rich Man and Lazarus29th January, 2010 at 1:36 pm
[...] Do you go straight to Heaven when you die? [...]
7. Posted by Paul28th August, 2010 at 12:31 am
Jesus answered him, I tell you the truth, TODAY you will be with me in paradise. Luke 23:43
8. Posted by John31st August, 2010 at 2:06 pm
What about 2 Cor. 5:8 Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord? SO
would it be fair to say that our souls do go right away to where we are destined but at the
ressurection the lord is talking about the ressurection of our flesh?
9. Posted by Jorge22nd September, 2010 at 11:34 pm
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise my
Bibles NIV and the KJV both have the coma after thee. So what bible are you reading?
10. Posted by Randy23rd September, 2010 at 12:48 am
I am reading the same Bible you are the difference is understanding that in the original Greek
there is no punctuation. The punctuation was added by translators and while very good it is not
perfect.
God inspired the writers, that is those who wrote the bible, John, Mark, Matthew, Moses, David
etc etc with what to write they then wrote it in their own words however written in their own
words it was and still is the inspired word of God. THe punctuation however is not inspired it
was added and greatly enhances our reading of the Bible today but to believe a concept that is
unbiblical due to one text that is taken out of context because of a miss-placed comma by a
translator is not the way the Bible is to be taken. The Bible teaches line upon line not the idea
that we base theology on one verse
But even considering that the punctuation was added by translators and was not in the original
greek (you can read about the original ancient greek
here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek) that does not prove that the original was not
written with the contention that Jesus would see the thief in paradise that day.
So you do pose a good question that deserves more of an answer then the above. And here it is.
Jesus did not ascend to heaven that day the Bible says in John 20:17 that He had not
ascended to heaven on Sunday which was after His resurrection
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my
brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your
God.
If Jesus did not ascend to paradise then He did not meet the thief there Jesus never promised
the thief He would meet Him THAT day in paradise instead He was emphasizing that even
though hanging on that cross He did not look like a King that day He was promising that the thief
would one day be with Him in paradise.
The truth of the matter is that everything proves this the fact that Jesus on Sunday after His
resurrection had not yet ascended to heaven. The fact that the Bible teaches that death is a
sleep and that the dead do not burn in hell or goto heaven at death. The Bible says that Jesus is
coming soon and that His reward is with Him the idea that people are sitting on the edge of a
cloud or being cooked by Satan in hell today is a pagan idea and has no basis on Scripture
That is a topic for another discussion but I think I have given enough evidence that Jesus did not
go with the thief to paradise upon death thereby corresponding with the rest of scripture.
If you have any other questions or comments email me or reply.
God Bless, Randy
em: randy{@}ebibleanswerson{dot}com
11. Posted by Jorge23rd September, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Thanks Randy for your quick response, one more question I have is, our Spirit goes back to God
when we die, but where does our Soul go when we die? Does it rest with the body as well till the
return of Christ? or does it go back to God along with the spirit and then reunite with our spiritual
bodies when Christ returns?
12. Posted by Betty17th October, 2010 at 10:30 pm
Your article is very interesting and points out some connections in scripture that I had not thought
about. My husband and I were having a discussion about this subject today, and we had not
reached a conclusion. We both thought that maybe when our bodies die, we are actually asleep
until the final judgment. Thank you for posting this.
13. Posted by lisa15th November, 2010 at 4:03 pm
What about the verse that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord
14. Posted by Sharon Pumphrey25th October, 2011 at 2:24 pm
I believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of Godin its entirety. If it wasnt, how could we
choose to put our faith in only portions of it. Entirety, to me, includes punctuation. I dont believe
that God only intended for just the punctuation-less Hebrew writings be the only inerrant Word. I
cannot believe that God would allow a punctuation error continue to be repeated over and over
again in all translations. If that were so, what other scripture has been punctuated incorrectly and
thus misinterpreted. No, there is not a comma following TODAY.
15. Posted by Carol1st April, 2013 at 1:52 am
I would be very careful in your teachings. Example: Luke 23:43. You are indicating the translation
is wrong. You have put doubt in every person that reads this article that the Bible has errors. The
bible has NO errors. If you are saying the comma is in the wrong place. Then what about every
other word, or punctuation ?BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU TEACH! You are held to a higher
accountability to God when you teach.
16. Posted by Randy1st April, 2013 at 2:02 am
Carol, I am not indicating anything, Jesus tells us very clearly He did not go to heaven at His
death therefore the punctuation MUST be wrong or Jesus is a liar. John 20:17 Jesus clearly says
I have not yet ascended to My Father therefore He did not goto paradise that night and if we
must take the punctuation is inspired Jesus is a liar.
Here is the issue there is a conflict in opinion on how the Bible was inspired. Some believe it
was inspired word by word, this is not so. If it were all the gospels would read the same but they
dont, they vary and in fact some gospels leave out parts others fill in. Parts of the Bible were
inspired word by word such as many rebukes given by prophets to Israel, the ten
commandments, etc etc. But the vast majority was inspired as thoughts to be written down in the
words of the men of God. We find this is the case with John in Revelation 1:19. He wrote what he
saw in His own words.
Carol, I totally agree with you, if the only basis for the article was on Luke 23:43 and a
grammatical debate I would say you have a totally valid point and would definitely side with you.
But in the article I posted verse after verse after verse stating we dont go to heaven when we
die, then Jesus Himself said He did not go to heaven when He died. Peter in Acts says that
David didnt go to heaven at death even though he is saved. So the issue is not grammar, I was
just explaining why the comma was placed where it was, not really using it even as a argument in
defense of death as a sleep.
Hopefully that clarifies??? I am more than open to hearing you explain where I am wrong, I am
not arrogant enough to believe I cant err but I believe that the evidence in the scripture is
overwhelmingly in favor of sleep at death.
17. Posted by Jesse1st April, 2013 at 5:49 am
Hey there. I just wanted to thank you for speaking the truth about this. I have been studying up
on this topic for a long time myself and I love hearing others putting this out there. I just felt that I
would help out a fellow believer and post a few more verses that help clarify the issue.
First, I want to answer the question about 2 Corinthians 5:6-8. Basically what this passage
means is that so long as were in this present body, we cannot dwell with God and thats because
flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 15:50). We require that
glorified body that Christ has to inherit such majesty. But some other helpful passages include
John 3:13 which states that No one has ever gone into heaven excpet theone who came from
heaven- the Son of Man. Funny how close that is to John 3:16, yet it is often the most
overlooked verse. I also have Psalm 115:16-17 which says, The highest heavens belong to the
Lord, but the earth he has given to mankind. It is not the dead who praise the Lord, those who go
down to the place of silence; thus indicating that heaven belongs to God and God alone but
earth he has graciously given to us. Also, the dead do not speak when they die. They are silent.
Ill email you the rest, friend.
Peace in Christ
18. Posted by Mike4th May, 2013 at 5:29 pm
Randy, im still unclear about why you are saying someday, you will be with me in paradise, while
the Bible says TODAY you will be with me in paradise? Then John you say the dead dont speak
when they die, what about The Rich man and the beggar?
19. Posted by Randy5th May, 2013 at 11:27 am
Brother mike, thanks for the comment. A few things about the text as I have gotten email after
email on it. In the original Greek there is no punctuation so that text cannot be used to prove or
disprove that we go to heaven/paradise at death because the punctuation was supplied. SO what
we must do is study the rest of the Bible and see what it says, for the bible does not contradict
itself. And the rest of the Biblbe, as quoted in the article, is emphatic that the dead know nothing
and do not rise until the resurrection. Also its very important to note that the verse is clear that
the thief would be with Christ in paradise yet Christ did not go to paradise that day. Read John
20:17, Jesus says He has not yet ascended to the Father so if we use this verse to say that
Jesus meant the thief would be with Him in paradise THAT day we make Jesus a liar. However if
we read it in the context of the rest of the BIble that the dead await resurrection Jesus was simply
saying, thief, verily I say unto you today, you will be with me in paradise
I hope maybe that clarifies it for you? Feel free to email me directly if you like or comment below.
randy at ebibleanswers dot com
As for your second question ask what Biblical Hermeneutical principle does it follow to say a
parable makes something literal? It almost does seem logical to say that a parable with real
names would be literal but without any Biblical basis (and there is none) it is supposition and
must be thrown out. When the Bible repeatedly says that the dead know nothing, that they sleep,
that they await the resurrection, to take a parable and state emphatically that just because it uses
real names it therefore overrules what the rest of the Bible says on the state of the dead, makes
no Biblical sense.
On the other hand could there be another possible reason why the name Lazarus is given?
Think about it, the rich man is not given a name we can assume either to hide his identity or
because it is not as important to know. Secondly, the whole point of the parable is explained at
the end to be if they heed not Moses and the prophets they would not be persuaded though
one rose from the dead so it kind of rules out using the parable as a pro-life-after-death support
text.
Consider this Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and Saducees mainly at this point who
CLAIMED to believe Moses and the prophets but Jesus said these are they which speak of me
so they claimed to believe but actually ignored that Jesus was the fulfillment of Moses and the
prophets. The prophecies all fulfilled in Christ and they totally ignored it so consider this. What
if Jesus used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus to drive home a point about these
Pharisees. So we have a parable which is being told to the pharisees (Luke 16:14) and the
purpose is explained in the end (Luke 16:31) to be If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
The question that begs to be asked is this, was a man by the name of Lazarus raised from the
dead? The interesting answer is yes, only a short time after Jesus told the parable. And many
would yell coincidence, merely coincidence but if you actually read the parable you find it is not
coincidence. Many commentators believe that the rich man represents Israel the rich man is
clothed in purple. Purple in the Bible represents royalty and holyness. The Bible says Israel was
set aside by God as His holy people. The rich man has bread to his full bread in the Bible
represents the word of God. Israel had been given prophet after prophet and revelation after
revelation they were led by God Himself out of Egypt by a pillar of cloud and yet instead of
being humble they prided themselves as if it was something they deserved.
There are literally so many things to glean from this parable if you really look deep therefore I
believe this parable was given to warn Israel that they needed to shape up and also to give the
Pharisees another chance so when they saw a literal Lazarus resurrected they could link the
parable. Whether you accept that view or not doesnt matter what does matter is this, you
cannot use a parable to disprove that which the Bible has already established and
unfortunately many pastors do that very thing.
One last point on that you may be wondering why Abraham is named. This is actually
because of the beliefs of the Pharisees. Josephus a Jewish historian who lived a short time after
Christ states in his works that the Pharisees created the parable Jesus told. Most people think
Jesus made it up He did not. However Jesus changed it. The Pharisees version, the rich man
went to heaven and the poor man went to hell. This was the way Israelites were brought up
you can see this train of thought in Luke 18:25. Jesus states tat it is easier for a camel to go
through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to be saved. Then the disciples answer
incredulously who then can be saved for the israelite riches meant divine favor. So Jesus
turned the parable around and sent the rich man to hell (figuratively) because he was proud and
the poor man who desire to be fed to the bosom of Abraham. (See Matthew 8:11 for the
connection)