Klayman V Judicial Watch FLSD 1:13-cv-20610 127 - 1

EXHIBIT 1
Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 1 of

243
In The Matter Of:
LARRYE.KLAYMAN
v.
JUDICIALWATCH,INC.
___________________________________________________
GEORGEMILLERVol.1
May23,2014
___________________________________________________

243
GEORGE MI LLER - 5/ 23/ 2014
1- 800- 325- 3376 www. mer r i l l cor p. com/ l aw
Mer r i l l Cor por at i on - New Yor k
Page 1
UNI TED STATES DI STRI CT COURT
SOUTHERN DI STRI CT OF FLORI DA
LARRY E. KLAYMAN, )
)
Pl ai nt i f f , )
)
- vs- ) CASE NO.
) 13- 20610- CI V-
J UDI CI AL WATCH, I NC. , ) ALTONAGA/ Si mont on
)
Def endant . )
_________________________________)
DEPOSI TI ON OF GEORGE MI LLER
FRI DAY, MAY 23, 2014
7: 40 a. m.
REPORTED BY: ERI KA SJ OQUI ST, C. S. R. , R. P. R. , C. R. R.
C. S. R. No. 12350
243
Page 2
1 DEPOSI TI ON OF GEORGE MI LLER, VOLUME 1, TAKEN AT 7: 40
2 A. M. , FRI DAY, MAY 23, 2014, AT 5700 RALSTON, SUI TE 100,
3 VENTURA, CALI FORNI A, BEFORE ERI KA A. SJ OQUI ST, C. S. R. ,
4 R. P. R. , C. R. R. , C. S. R. NO. 12350, CERTI FI ED SHORTHAND
5 REPORTER, I N AND FOR THE STATE OF CALI FORNI A.
6
7
8 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
9
FOR THE PLAI NTI FF:
10
LARRY KLAYMAN, ESQ.
11 ATTORNEY AT LAW
I N PRO PER
12 2520 CORAL WAY, SUI TE 2027
MI AMI , FLORI DA 33145
13 310- 595- 0800
LEKLAYMAN@GMAI L. COM
14 ( VI A VI DEO CONFERENCI NG)
15
ALSO PRESENT: DI NA J AMES, PARALEGAL TO MR. KLAYMAN
17
FOR THE DEFENDANT:
18
SCHWED KAHLE & KRESS, P. A.
19 DOUGLAS J . KRESS
ATTORNEY AT LAW
20 11410 NORTH J OG ROAD, SUI TE 100
PALM BEACH GARDENS, FLORI DA 33418
21 561- 694- 0700
DKRESS@SCHWEDPA. COM
23
24
25
243
Page 3
1 I N D E X
2 DEPONENT EXAMI NATI ON PAGE
3 GEORGE MI LLER ( MR. KRESS) 5, 135
( MR. KLAYMAN) 128
4
5
6
7 E X H I B I T S
8 NO. PAGE DESCRI PTI ON
9 Exhi bi t 1 95 Cuyahoga Count y Cour t of Common
Pl eas Cr i mi nal Cour t Di vi si on,
10 Tr ue Bi l l I ndi ct ment f or Cr i mi nal
Nonsuppor t - F5
11 St at e of Ohi o vs. Lar r y Kl ayman
12 Exhi bi t 2 82 Cuyahoga Count y Pr osecut or web
page - Pr ess Rel ease - - 2/ 3/ 12
13
Exhi bi t 3 95 Cour t of Common Pl eas Di vi si on of
14 Domest i c Rel at i ons Cuyahoga
Count y, Ohi o, Case No. DR07
15 316840, J udgment Ent r y
Re: 7/ 28/ 2009
16
Exhi bi t 4 96 Cour t of Common Pl eas Di vi si on of
17 Domest i c Rel at i ons Cuyahoga
Count y, Ohi o, Case No. DR07
18 316840, J udgment Ent r y
Re: 7/ 2/ 2010
19
Exhi bi t 5 102 Case No. DR07 316840, 2/ 22/ 2010
20 Capi as Or der ed f or Pl ai nt i f f
Lar r y El l i ot Kl ayman
21
Exhi bi t 6 24 2/ 8/ 2012 e- mai l f r omLar r y
22 Kl ayman t o Geor ge J . Mi l l er , r e:
Ret ent i on Agr eement wi t h Kl ayman
23 Law Fi r m
24 Exhi bi t 7 40 5/ 7/ 2012 e- mai l st r i ng bet ween
Geor ge Mi l l er and Lar r y Kl ayman
25 Re: Voel t z vs. Obama, et al -
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Page 4
1 Exhi bi t 8 37 7/ 23/ 12 Kl ayman Law Fi r mBi l l i ng
St at ement
2
Exhi bi t 9 43 9/ 12/ 12 e- mai l f r omLar r y Kl ayman
3 t o Geor ge Mi l l er , r e: Ret ent i on
Agr eement wi t h Kl ayman Law Fi r m
4
Exhi bi t 10 5 Conwebwat ch web page - " Lar r y
5 Kl ayman, Fai l ed Lawyer " - 8/ 10/ 12
6 Exhi bi t 11 5 The Nat i on web page - " Kl ayman
Wat ch" - 7/ 10/ 07
7
Exhi bi t 12 5 Mi ami New Ti mes web page - " Lar r y
8 Kl ayman, Conser vat i ve Wi ngnut
Lawyer , Get s Repr i manded By
9 Fl or i da Bar , I s Br oke" - 11/ 1/ 11
10 Exhi bi t 13 5 Renew Amer i ca web page - " The
good vi r gi n' s bi r t her case" -
11 12/ 8/ 12
12 Exhi bi t 14 47 Or l y Tai t z, Esqui r e web page -
" My yest er day' s pr esent at i on t o
13 CCI R and updat e on
ar t i cl e2Super PAC- Lar r y Kl ayman
14 $25, 000 f undr ai si ng f or
non- exi st ent l aw sui t af f ai r " -
15 2/ 23/ 2012
16 Exhi bi t 15 104 Or l y Tai t z, Esqui r e web page -
" Cl ar i f i cat i on r egar di ng
17 ar t i cl e2l egal f und and Lar r y
Kl ayman" - 2/ 26/ 2012
18
19
20 I NSTRUCTI ON NOT TO ANSWER: 15: 20, 16: 17, 19: 20, 20: 2,
20: 9, 83: 17, 87: 17, 87: 24
21
22
23
24
25
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Page 5
1 VENTURA, CALI FORNI A
2 FRI DAY, MAY 23, 2014
3 7: 40 a. m.
4
5
6 ( Exhi bi t s 1 - 15 pr emar ked bef or e deposi t i on. )
7
8 GEORGE MI LLER,
9 HAVI NG BEEN FI RST DULY SWORN BY THE REPORTER, WAS
10 EXAMI NED AND TESTI FI ED AS FOLLOWS:
11
12 DI RECT EXAMI NATI ON
13
14 BY MR. KRESS:
15 Q Good mor ni ng, Mr . Mi l l er .
16 A Good mor ni ng.
17 Q My name i s Doug Kr ess, and we met vi a vi deo
18 conf er ence j ust a f ew mi nut es ago. I r epr esent J udi ci al
19 Wat ch i n a l awsui t f i l ed by Lar r y Kl ayman. And t hi s
20 mor ni ng, I ' mgoi ng t o t ake your deposi t i on.
21 And si nce we ar e doi ng t hi s by vi deo
22 conf er ence, i t ' s i mpor t ant t hat we t ake our t i me and t r y
23 not t o speak at t he same t i me because t hat woul d become
24 conf usi ng f or bot h of us and di f f i cul t f or t he cour t
25 r epor t er . And I ' l l ask you t o f ol l ow t hat r ul e as wel l
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Page 6
1 as a f ew addi t i onal gr ound r ul es.
2 I f I ask you a quest i on, pl ease answer i t out
3 l oud and cl ear l y so we can al l hear you and so t he cour t
4 r epor t er can t ake i t down f or t he r ecor d. I f t he
5 quest i on cal l s f or a " yes" or " no, " pl ease t r y t o say
6 " yes" or " no" as opposed t o " huh- uh" or " uh- huh" because
7 t hose get conf usi ng.
8 I f you do not under st and me, do not answer t he
9 quest i on. Tel l me you don' t under st and, and I wi l l
10 r ephr ase i t so you do under st and. Uhm, i f you shoul d
11 need a br eak f or any r eason, l et us know, and we wi l l
12 l et you t ake a br eak.
13 A Yes.
14 Q Do al l t he r ul es sound f ai r and r easonabl e t o
15 you?
16 A They do.
17 Q Okay.
18 MR. KLAYMAN: And I mi ght add, Mr . Mi l l er , I ' m
19 counsel f or mysel f , pr o se, Lar r y Kl ayman, as you know.
20 Bef or e you ask a quest i on, pause t o gi ve me an
21 oppor t uni t y t o obj ect i f I need t o make an obj ect i on.
22 THE WI TNESS: Yes.
23 MR. KLAYMAN: And t r y t o l ook i nt o t he camer a
24 as much as you can.
25 BY MR. KRESS:
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Page 7
1 Q What i s your addr ess, Mr . Mi l l er ?
2 A 2041 J amest own Way, Oxnar d, Cal i f or ni a.
3 Q And how ol d ar e you?
4 A Si xt y- si x.
5 Q Can you t el l me about your pr of essi onal
6 backgr ound or wor k exper i ence? I ' l l l et you j ust t el l
7 me i nst ead of t r yi ng t o ask you a bunch of quest i ons
8 about i t .
9 A I ' mr et i r ed now, but or i gi nal l y, I was a
10 mechani cal engi neer and t r ansi t i oned i nt o manuf act ur i ng
11 oper at i ons i n t he 1960s; wor ked i n t he consul t i ng f i el d
12 f or f i r ms l i ke Booz Al l en Hami l t on i n New Yor k.
13 I came out t o Cal i f or ni a i n 1980 t o r un an
14 oper at i on l ocal l y, and st ar t ed my own busi ness i n 1986
15 and r an t hat unt i l I r et i r ed ar ound 2010.
16 Q What was t he name of your busi ness?
17 A I had t wo busi nesses; one was Pr oact i on
18 Management Consul t ant s, and one was The Faci l i t at i ve
19 Gr oup, bot h i nvol ved i n si mi l ar busi nesses of oper at i ons
20 management consul t i ng.
21 Q Pr oact i on Management & Consul t ant s, and what
22 was t he ot her one?
23 A Pr oact i on, not " pr oact i ve. "
24 Q Okay. Pr oact i on Management Consul t ant s?
25 A Pr oact i on, T- I - O- N.
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1 Q Okay. I t hi nk t hat ' s what I ' msayi ng.
2 A Okay. I t ' s not comi ng acr oss.
3 Q Management Consul t ant s?
4 A Cor r ect .
5 Q And t he ot her one was t he - -
6 A Faci l i t at or .
7 Q - - Faci l i t at or Gr oup?
8 A Faci l i t at or Gr oup, cor r ect .
9 Q What was t he nat ur e of t he busi ness of
10 Pr oact i on Management Consul t ant s?
11 A Oper at i ons management consul t i ng and r el at ed
12 busi ness syst ems.
13 Q What ' s t hat mean i n l ay t er ms?
14 A Oper at i ons management consul t i ng i s t he sci ence
15 of managi ng a manuf act ur i ng busi ness and al l t he r el at ed
16 syst ems r equi r ed t o pr ovi de t he i nf or mat i on t o suppor t
17 t hat .
18 Q Okay. And what - - what was t he nat ur e of t he
19 busi ness of The Faci l i t at or Gr oup?
20 A I t was al most i dent i cal .
21 Q So, al so oper at i ons management ?
22 A Consul t i ng, r i ght .
23 Q Wer e bot h busi nesses l ocat ed i n Cal i f or ni a?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Di d t hey oper at e out si de of Cal i f or ni a?
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1 A Most l y out si de of Cal i f or ni a and out si de of t he
2 USA.
3 Q Okay. Di d t hey oper at e i n Fl or i da?
4 A We have done wor k i n Fl or i da.
5 Q What ki nd of wor k have you done i n Fl or i da?
6 A Most l y - -
7 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Rel evancy.
8 THE WI TNESS: - - onsi t e anal yses of
9 manuf act ur i ng f i r ms, pr ovi di ng i nf or mat i on on oper at i ons
10 management , and consul t i ng i n compl i ance wi t h gover nment
11 cont r act i ng r egul at i ons r el at ed t o f i nance and
12 oper at i ons.
13 BY MR. KRESS:
14 Q Okay. So your educat i on I bel i eve i s as a
15 mechani cal engi neer ?
16 A That ' s r i ght , or i gi nal l y. And t hen I t ook some
17 busi ness cour ses subsequent l y si nce I dr i f t ed i nt o
18 busi ness i n t he l at e 1960s.
19 Q And you r et i r ed i n 2010, you sai d, cor r ect ?
20 A Yes. I act ual l y ki nd of phased my wor k out
21 because I was spendi ng mor e and mor e t i me on pol i t i cal
22 act i vi smand l ess and l ess t i me on wor k, and I j ust
23 t hought i t was mor e i mpor t ant . So I st opped wor ki ng and
24 f ocused on t hi s j ust about excl usi vel y.
25 Q Okay. So now, do you consi der your sel f t o be a
243
Page 10
1 pol i t i cal act i vi st ?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Tel l me t he nat ur e of your act i vi t i es as a
4 pol i t i cal act i vi st ?
5 MR. KLAYMAN: And Geor ge, I i nst r uct you j ust
6 t o answer t he quest i ons t hat he' s aski ng you, okay?
7 THE WI TNESS: Yes, okay.
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Okay.
9 THE WI TNESS: I or i gi nal l y st ar t ed of f i n about
10 - - i n 2008 or 2009, I was ver y upset because of t he
11 economi c cr ash and t he huge det r i ment al ef f ect i t had on
12 my i nvest ment s. So I st ar t ed st udyi ng why t hat occur r ed
13 and how t he mar ket s wer e made t o cr ash, how r eal est at e
14 cr ashed, how t he st ock mar ket cr ashed, how cur r enci es
15 wer e mani pul at ed, and how t hat r el at ed t o el ect i on
16 pol i t i cs. And I concl uded t hat some of t hat r eal l y
17 di dn' t have t o occur at al l .
18 And t hen af t er t hat , t he nat i onal el ect i on came
19 up, and Obama was el ect ed. And dur i ng my st udi es, I
20 f ound out t hi s was r eal l y not a good guy t o be r unni ng
21 t he count r y at al l . So I began t o act i vel y oppose t hat
22 at t he nat i onal l evel , and t hat ' s r eal l y what l ed me,
23 ul t i mat el y, t o meet - - t o meet Lar r y Kl ayman.
24 I al so, when t hi s t ea par t y movement st ar t ed i n
25 2009, I j oi ned a t ea par t y i ni t i al l y t o t ake act i on. At
243
Page 11
1 t hat t i me, peopl e wer en' t ver y pol i t i cal l y
2 sophi st i cat ed. We wer e most l y new t o t hi s. We knew
3 not hi ng about what was goi ng on at al l . That was qui t e
4 an eye opener . I subsequent l y st ar t ed t he Vent ur a
5 Count y Tea Par t y l at er i n 2010. And par t of our
6 act i vi t y i s t hat t he member shi p vot ed t hat we shoul d
7 i nvest i gat e Obama mor e t hor oughl y, whi ch we di d. And i n
8 car r yi ng out t he wi shes of t he member shi p, we,
9 ul t i mat el y, wor ked on engagi ng Lar r y t o suppor t some of
10 t he cases at t he nat i onal l evel as wel l .
11 And t hen I was al so i nvol ved i n l ocal pol i t i cs,
12 bei ng i nvol ved - - wor ki ng wi t h one of t he maj or
13 pol i t i cal par t i es, t he Republ i cans. You know, t hey wer e
14 bot h pr et t y bad, but Republ i cans l ooked a l i t t l e - - a
15 l i t t l e l ess wor se. And I was a st at e del egat e. I was a
16 member of di f f er ent pol i t i cal or gani zat i ons. I
17 campai gned f or var i ous candi dat es. I wr ot e publ i ci t y
18 f or var i ous candi dat es.
19 And t hen l ast year , we - - we ended up st ar t i ng
20 a newspaper because we f el t t her e r eal l y wasn' t good
21 news i n Vent ur a Count y at al l . And I spend a l ot of my
22 t i me on t hat now as wel l .
23 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Q What ' s t he name of t he newspaper ?
25 A Ci t i zensJ our nal . US.
243
Page 12
1 Q I s i t an onl i ne paper t hen - -
2 A Yes.
3 Q - - or i s i t a - - okay.
4 A I t i s onl i ne.
5 Q And what i s your r ol e i n t he Ci t i zens J our nal ?
6 Ar e you publ i sher or ?
7 A I amt he publ i sher .
8 Q Have you been el ect ed t o any pol i t i cal of f i ces?
9 A I don' t r eal l y have t he - - t he demeanor or t he
10 desi r e t o be i n el ect i ve of f i ce. I wor k behi nd t he
11 scenes.
12 MR. KLAYMAN: Geor ge, when I quest i on asks f or
13 a " yes" or " no, " j ust gi ve a " yes" or " no. "
15 MR. KLAYMAN: That ' s what I ' mdi r ect i ng you.
16 BY MR. KRESS:
17 Q Mr . Mi l l er , ar e you r epr esent ed by counsel f or
18 t he pur poses of t hi s deposi t i on?
19 A I ' msor r y. For what ? For t hi s deposi t i on?
20 Q For t hi s deposi t i on, ar e you r epr esent ed - - ar e
21 you r epr esent ed by counsel ?
22 MR. KLAYMAN: I ' l l st i pul at e t o t hat . He' s
23 r epr esent ed by me.
24 BY MR. KRESS:
25 Q So, i t ' s your bel i ef you ar e r epr esent ed by
243
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1 Mr . Kl ayman i n t hi s mat t er ?
2 MR. KLAYMAN: For pur poses of t he deposi t i on.
3 THE WI TNESS: For t hi s deposi t i on. I don' t
4 f eel he, you know, he' s r epr esent i ng me as a cl i ent or
5 anyt hi ng l i ke t hat . But I ' ve been i n cont act wi t h hi m
6 about i t , and we have si mi l ar i nt er est s i n t hi s mat t er .
7 BY MR. KRESS:
8 Q Ar e you - - ar e you compensat i ng Mr . Kl ayman f or
9 hi s assi st ance t o you i n t hi s deposi t i on?
10 A No.
11 Q Payi ng hi m?
12 A No.
13 Q I s he payi ng you i n any f ashi on f or t est i mony?
14 A No.
15 MR. KLAYMAN: I ' l l l et you answer t hat .
16 That ' s a t ot al l y obj ect i onabl e quest i on,
17 Mr . Kr ess. I t i nvades t he at t or ney- cl i ent pr i vi l ege and
18 i nvades wor k pr oduct .
19 MR. KRESS: Wel l , ar e you hi s - - ar e you
20 st at i ng - -
21 MR. KLAYMAN: He j ust answer ed t he quest i on.
22 You can go on, Mr . Kr ess.
23 MR. KRESS: Ar e you st at i ng you ar e hi s
24 at t or ney?
25 MR. KLAYMAN: For pur pose of t hi s deposi t i on,
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Page 14
1 yeah, I j ust st i pul at ed t o t hat .
2 MR. KRESS: Okay. Ar e you hi s at t or ney f or
3 pur poses of t r i al ?
4 MR. KLAYMAN: I wi l l be r epr esent i ng hi mf or
5 pur poses of t r i al i n t er ms of obj ect i ng t o your
6 quest i ons, yes, because I ' ma pl ai nt i f f pr o se. And I
7 have a r i ght t o obj ect t o t he quest i ons.
8 MR. KRESS: I under st and you have a r i ght t o
9 obj ect , but - -
10 MR. KLAYMAN: I amnot bei ng deposed,
11 Mr . Kr ess. Move on.
12 MR. KRESS: I ' mj ust - - I ' mt r yi ng t o det er mi ne
13 whet her I shoul d ask quest i ons. Li ke, f or i nst ance - -
14 MR. KLAYMAN: That ' s as f ar as you ar e goi ng t o
15 get because you ar e get t i ng i nt o at t or ney- cl i ent
16 pr i vi l ege.
17 MR. KRESS: Al l r i ght . Wel l , I ' mgoi ng t o ask
18 t hi s quest i on. I ' msur e you ar e goi ng t o obj ect and
19 i nst r uct hi mnot t o answer , but . . .
20 BY MR. KRESS:
21 Q Bef or e t he deposi t i on began, you st epped out
22 and spoke pr i vat el y t o Mr . Kl ayman, cor r ect ?
23 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer t hat , Geor ge, but
24 not t he subst ance of t he conver sat i on.
25 THE WI TNESS: Wel l , he appr oached me about t he
243
Page 15
1 t r i al and asked me i f I woul d - -
2 MR. KLAYMAN: No, no. That cal l s f or a " yes"
3 or " no, " Geor ge.
4 MR. KRESS: Wel l , and I ' l l get i nt o t hat l at er .
5 MR. KLAYMAN: When a quest i on asks " yes" or
6 " no, " you r espond ei t her " yes" or " no. "
7 THE WI TNESS: Woul d you ask t he quest i on agai n,
8 Mr . Kr ess?
9 BY MR. KRESS:
10 Q I wi l l , yes.
11 Bef or e we began her e, we wer e si t t i ng i n t he
12 r oom, and t hen Mr . Kl ayman cal l ed you pr i vat el y, and you
13 went and st epped i nt o anot her r oomand spoke t o
14 Mr . Kl ayman, cor r ect ?
15 A I di d, yes.
16 Q What di d you t al k about ?
17 MR. KLAYMAN: You ar e not - - i nst r uct you not
18 t o answer .
19
20 ( Wi t ness i nst r uct ed not t o answer . )
21
22 MR. KRESS: Al l r i ght . We may addr ess t hat
23 l at er .
24 THE WI TNESS: May I say somet hi ng? May I say
25 somet hi ng?
243
Page 16
1 MR. KLAYMAN: No, you may not .
2 THE WI TNESS: Okay. I t ' s r eal l y qui t e si mpl e.
3 MR. KLAYMAN: I i nst r uct you not t o answer .
4 Okay. That ' s wor k pr oduct , at t or ney cl i ent .
5 MR. KRESS: Uhm. . .
6 MR. KLAYMAN: J ust answer quest i ons.
7 THE WI TNESS: Whi ch quest i on?
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Ther e' s no quest i on pendi ng.
9 MR. KRESS: Ther e' s no quest i on pendi ng, but
10 one wi l l be comi ng.
11 BY MR. KRESS:
12 Q When di d Mr . Kl ayman f i r st appr oach you about
13 t est i f yi ng i n t hi s case?
14 MR. KLAYMAN: You ar e not t o r espond t o t hat .
15 Geor ge, you ar e not t o r espond t o t hat . Okay?
16
18
20 MR. KLAYMAN: That ' s at t or ney- cl i ent pr i vi l ege.
21 MR. KRESS: I t hi nk we mi ght t o have t he cour t
22 i nt er vene. Thi s i s a wi t ness.
23 MR. KLAYMAN: That - - I ' mr epr esent i ng hi mf or
24 pur poses of t hi s deposi t i on.
25 MR. KRESS: Al l r i ght . We - - I ' mgoi ng get
243
Page 17
1 t hr ough t he subst ance of i t , and t hen we may have t o
2 cal l - -
3 MR. KLAYMAN: We can t al k about i t , but get
4 your quest i ons out t her e.
5 MR. KRESS: Because he' s a - - he' s a - - he' s a
6 wi t ness. I mean, you can' t pr event me f r omf i ndi ng out
7 what was di scussed wi t h t he wi t ness by sayi ng t her e' s an
8 at t or ney - - you ar e hi s at t or ney.
9 MR. KLAYMAN: Yes, I can because t hat ' s
10 at t or ney- cl i ent pr i vi l ege, Mr . Kr ess.
11 BY MR. KRESS:
12 Q Do you have any t ype of f ee agr eement or
13 r et ai ner agr eement wi t h r espect t o - - wi t h Mr . Kl ayman
14 wi t h r espect t o t hi s deposi t i on or t he t est i mony at
15 t r i al ?
16 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer t hat .
17 THE WI TNESS: We have no f i nanci al agr eement .
18 BY MR. KRESS:
19 Q Any wr i t t en agr eement what soever ?
20 A We have no - -
21 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer t hat .
22 THE WI TNESS: We have no wr i t t en agr eement .
23 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Q What ver bal agr eement do you have, i f any?
25 A Wel l , I was asked i f I woul d t est i f y on t hi s
243
Page 18
1 mat t er , and I sai d t hat I woul d.
2 Q Okay.
3 A And he sai d - -
4 Q When was t hat ?
5 A Thi s goes way back. Thi s i s t wo year s ago when
6 t hese event s happened. At t he t i me, we bot h wer e
7 ext r emel y upset at t he l i es t ol d by your company. And
8 at t hat t i me, Lar r y sai d t hat he was goi ng t o sue. I
9 di dn' t bel i eve hi m. So, I r eal l y had no i dea t hi s woul d
10 ever happen, I ' d be si t t i ng her e t oday, but at t he t i me,
11 I sai d, " I f you need hel p, I wi l l t est i f y as t o what
12 happened and what was done t o - - t o our f undr ai si ng
13 ef f or t f or Ar t i cl e I I PAC, f or Const i t ut i on Act i on Fund,
14 f or our case, f or Mi chael Voel t z, f or our boar ded case
15 i n Cal i f or ni a, and t hat you peopl e r eal l y scr ewed up bi g
16 t i me. So, yes, I was ver y mot i vat ed t o t est i f y. Any
17 ot her quest i ons?
18 Q I have a l ot of quest i ons.
19 A Go ahead.
20 Q We ar e goi ng t o be - - we' r e goi ng t o be her e
21 f or a whi l e.
22 A Okay.
23 MR. KLAYMAN: Pl ease avoi d t he sar casm,
24 Mr . Kr ess.
25 MR. KRESS: He asked me i f I had mor e
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Page 19
1 quest i ons.
2 MR. KLAYMAN: That ' s f i ne, but no mor e sar casm.
3 J ust be - - j ust be a gent l eman t o my cl i ent .
4 MR. KRESS: I ambei ng a gent l eman wi t h your
5 cl i ent .
6 MR. KLAYMAN: Thank you.
7 BY MR. KRESS:
8 Q And - - okay. Do you i nt end t o t r avel t o
9 Fl or i da f or t he t r i al ?
10 A Excuse me?
11 Q Do you i nt end t o t r avel t o Fl or i da f or t he
12 t r i al ?
13 A I t was my i nt ent i on I had t o go t o Mi ami f or a
14 t r i al , whi ch has been post poned once al r eady.
15 Q Who i s payi ng f or your ai r f ar e?
16 A I t ' s my i mpr essi on - -
17 MR. KLAYMAN: You ar e not t o answer t hat . You
18 ar e not t o answer t hat .
19
21
22 BY MR. KRESS:
23 Q Ar e you payi ng f or your own ai r f ar e?
24 MR. KLAYMAN: You ar e not t o answer t hat .
25 At t or ney- cl i ent pr i vi l ege.
243
Page 20
1
3
4 BY MR. KRESS:
5 Q Who i s payi ng f or your hot el when you ar e her e?
6 MR. KLAYMAN: You ar e not t o answer t hat .
7 At t or ney- cl i ent pr i vi l ege.
8
10
11 BY MR. KRESS:
12 Q Okay. When di d you f i r st meet Lar r y Kl ayman?
13 A I f i r st met Lar r y Kl ayman i n December of 2011,
14 but I had - - f ace t o f ace.
15 Q Okay. Di d you speak t o hi mor communi cat e wi t h
16 hi mbef or e December 2011?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And i n what ci r cumst ances di d you speak t o hi m
19 pr i or t o December of 2011?
20 A Wel l , you know, Lar r y' s a ver y f amous per son,
21 havi ng been t he f ounder of t he or gani zat i on, whi ch now
22 pays you. And he' s been i nvol ved ext ensi vel y i n var i ous
23 causes f or l i ber t y and j ust i ce. And I ' ve al ways been a
24 gr eat admi r er of Lar r y, and I cont act ed hi ma coupl e of
25 t i mes, once when he was r unni ng a r al l y i n Washi ngt on,
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Page 21
1 DC. And numer ous t i mes, I t r i ed t o get hi mt o wor k f or
2 us t o t ake on cases, but i t wasn' t unt i l December
3 of 2011 wher e I act ual l y met hi mand was abl e t o t al k i n
4 det ai l about i t .
5 Q Okay. So, you - - but you cont act ed hi mbef or e
6 t hat and t r i ed t o get hi mt o hel p you?
7 A Excuse me?
8 Q You had cont act ed hi mbef or e December of 2011
9 and sought hi s assi st ance, cor r ect ?
10 A Cor r ect .
11 Q I n ot her mat t er s?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Tel l me what occur r ed i n December of 2011 wi t h
14 r espect t o Mr . Kl ayman?
15 A Wel l , I met hi m, and I i mmedi at el y br ought up
16 t he t opi c, whi ch i s of mut ual i nt er est . I t ol d hi mwhat
17 we wer e t r yi ng t o accompl i sh. He i ndi cat ed t hat he
18 agr eed wi t h i t . And I asked hi mi f he woul d consi der
19 r epr esent i ng us, and he was amenabl e t o t hat . And we
20 met t he f ol l owi ng week and wor ked out a t ent at i ve
21 agr eement , whi ch I t hen had t o get r at i f i cat i on f or f r om
22 my gr oup of peopl e.
23 So, we had a maj or t el econf er ence af t er t hat ,
24 and we agr eed - - we hammer ed out t he det ai l s of how i t
25 woul d wor k, and t hen we moved f or war d f r omt her e.
243
Page 22
1 Q Who i s your gr oup?
2 A Wel l , uhm, at t hat t i me, I was i nvol ved i n t he
3 Obama Bal l ot Chal l enge ef f or t , whi ch was a nat i onal
4 gr oup, a ver y l oose af f i l i at i on of peopl e, who
5 communi cat ed by t el ephone and e- mai l . And we st ar t ed
6 of f wi t h t he New Hampshi r e Bal l ot Chal l enge, si nce
7 t hat ' s t he f i r st one i n t he count r y, and devel oped some
8 r el at i onshi ps dur i ng t hat t i me.
9 I was al so t he l ead per son t hat r an a websi t e
10 cal l ed " Obama Bal l ot Chal l enge" t hat at t empt ed t o r epor t
11 on what was happeni ng i n t hat movement and al so r epor t ed
12 - - at t empt ed t o mot i vat e peopl e t o get i nvol ved i n t he
13 movement , t o cont r i but e money, t o cont r i but e l egal
14 ser vi ces, t o f i l e cases al l over t he nat i on.
15 And t hen subsequent l y, I was i nvol ved wi t h some
16 di f f er ent or gani zat i ons t hat wer e bei ng used as vehi cl es
17 t o r ai se f unds.
18 Q So, you' ve ext ensi vel y wor ked on t he Obama
19 chal l enges even bef or e communi cat i ng wi t h Mr . Kl ayman,
20 cor r ect ?
21 A Yes, yes.
22 Q For i nst ance, Mr . Kl ayman was not i nvol ved i n
23 t he New Hampshi r e mat t er ?
24 A I don' t know i f he was or not .
25 Q Wel l , you di dn' t i nvol ve hi mi n t he New
243
Page 23
1 Hampshi r e mat t er , di d you?
2 A No. No, I di dn' t .
3 Q You' r e an admi r er of Lar r y Kl ayman?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Ar e you a f r i end of Lar r y Kl ayman?
6 A I woul d consi der mysel f a f r i end now j ust
7 because we' ve wor ked t oget her and been t hr ough a l ot of
8 bat t l es t oget her .
9 Q Okay.
10 A I mean, he hasn' t been t o my house. I haven' t
11 been t o hi s house or anyt hi ng l i ke t hat , but , you know,
12 we ar e on ver y - - we ar e on good t er ms.
13 Q Okay. What was t he - - you t al ked - - you t al ked
14 about a coupl e of t hese gr oups.
15 What was t he name of t he gr oup t hat was l ooki ng
16 t o hi r e Lar r y Kl ayman?
17 A The name of t he gr oup. I t was j ust some
18 i ndi vi dual s, you know. We ar e j ust peopl e. We di dn' t
19 have a cor por at i on. We di dn' t have an or gani zat i on.
20 Q Who ar e t he names - - who ar e t he names of t he
21 peopl e?
22 A Wel l , t her e ar e r eal l y dozens of peopl e. But
23 t he ones t hat wer e most cent r al l y i nvol ved i n t he
24 or gani zat i on wer e mysel f , Capt ai n Pamel a Bar net t , Sam
25 Sewel l . We ar e t he ones t hat act ual l y f or med t he
243
Page 24
1 f undr ai si ng or gani zat i on. Ther e wer e many ot her s
2 i nvol ved, t oo.
3 One of t he t hi ngs we had t o do i s f i gur e out
4 whi ch cases we wer e goi ng t o wor k on. So, some peopl e
5 submi t t ed di f f er ent cases; among t hem, Mi ke Voel t z f r om
6 Fl or i da, and Pamel a Bar net t f or t he Cal i f or ni a case.
7 Those ar e t he t wo cases t hat we i ni t i al l y want ed t o have
8 Lar r y r epr esent us on. And t hen we had del usi ons of
9 gr andeur , i t t ur ned out because we want ed t o have hi mgo
10 t hr ough sever al st at es and wor k wi t h l awyer s i n
11 di f f er ent st at es and have mor e of a coor di nat ed ef f or t .
12 And you, f ol ks, di d a r eal l y good j ob of sabot agi ng t hat
13 f or us. Thank you.
14 MR. KRESS: Move t o st r i ke as nonr esponsi ve.
15 MR. KLAYMAN: I t was r esponsi ve.
16 BY MR. KRESS:
17 Q So, l et ' s go t o t he exhi bi t s, Mr . Mi l l er . Do
18 you have t hose i n f r ont of you?
19 A I do, yes.
20 Q Can you, pl ease, go t o Exhi bi t 6?
21
22 ( Exhi bi t 6 i dent i f i ed. )
23
24 A Yes. The r et ent i on agr eement ?
25 Q Yes. Okay. You ar e f ami l i ar wi t h t hi s
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Page 25
1 document , cor r ect ?
2 A Yes.
3 Q I t ' s an e- mai l f r omLar r y Kl ayman t o you, dat ed
4 Febr uar y 8, 2012, cor r ect ?
5 A That ' s cor r ect .
6 Q And i s t hi s - - i s t hi s t he onl y r et ent i on
7 agr eement t hat you have wi t h Mr . Kl ayman r el at ed t o t he
8 Obama cases?
9 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Assumes f act s not i n
10 evi dence. Leadi ng.
11 BY MR. KRESS:
12 Q You can answer .
13 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer . That ' s a l egal
14 obj ect i on.
15 THE WI TNESS: Yes, as f ar as I know.
16 BY MR. KRESS:
17 Q Okay. Let me ask i t a di f f er ent way. I j ust
18 want t o t r y t o avoi d any obj ect i ons.
19 Di d - - di d you, per sonal l y, ent er i nt o any
20 ot her agr eement s wi t h Lar r y Kl ayman wi t h r espect t o
21 Obama l i t i gat i on?
23 evi dence. Leadi ng.
24 You can r espond.
25 THE WI TNESS: No.
243
Page 26
1 BY MR. KRESS:
2 Q Okay. Di d you hi r e Lar r y Kl ayman t o f i l e an
3 Obama chal l enge?
4 A Wel l , i t depends on what you mean by " you. " I
5 di d not per sonal l y t ake on any obl i gat i on, but I di d
6 commi t our f undr ai si ng ef f or t s t o do t hat . And many
7 peopl e at t empt ed t o hel p me wi t h t hat , and we i nt ended
8 t o r ai se enough money t o not onl y do t he Voel t z case,
9 but t he Cal i f or ni a case and cases i n ot her st at es as
10 wel l ; and, i f necessar y, t ake t hi s t o t he Supr eme Cour t ,
11 whi ch we knew woul d be qui t e expensi ve, you know, beyond
12 our per sonal means t o f i nance. So we needed t o r ai se
13 f unds f r ompeopl e who wer e mot i vat ed t o act on t hi s.
14 Q Okay. Wel l , t he l et t er t hat ' s bef or e us, as
15 Exhi bi t 6, i s onl y - - you ar e t he onl y r eci pi ent of t he
16 l et t er , cor r ect ?
17 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Leadi ng. Assumes
18 f act s not i n evi dence. And document speaks f or i t sel f .
19 BY MR. KRESS:
21 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer .
22 THE WI TNESS: I was t he poi nt per son.
23 MR. KLAYMAN: I t was an i mpr oper quest i on, but
24 you can answer t hat . Okay.
25 THE WI TNESS: Okay. Answer an i mpr oper
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Page 27
1 quest i on. I was t he poi nt per son on t hi s t hi ng. I was
2 t he one t hat was t he ent r epr eneur t hat f ound Lar r y
3 Kl ayman, met Lar r y Kl ayman, made t he pr oposal ,
4 mar shal l ed t he r esour ces, wr ot e t he agr eement s, but
5 ot her peopl e wer e i nvol ved i n t hi s as wel l .
6 BY MR. KRESS:
7 Q Okay. And t he ot her peopl e, you ment i oned
8 Pamel a Bar net t and SamSewel l .
9 Anyone el se t hat you can i dent i f y?
10 A I ' mnot sur e I want t o i dent i f y t hemand dr ag
11 t hemi nt o t hi s t hi ng unl ess t hat ' s necessar y f or t he
12 case.
13 MR. KLAYMAN: You can i dent i f y t hem, Geor ge.
14 THE WI TNESS: I can answer i t ?
15 MR. KLAYMAN: You can i dent i f y t hem, Geor ge.
16 Yeah, you can answer .
17 THE WI TNESS: Okay. Wel l , f or exampl e, t he
18 f ol l owi ng week af t er I met Lar r y Kl ayman, Tony Dol z
19 ( phonet i c) accompani ed me f or t he negot i at i ons t o hammer
20 out t he scope of t he case and t he f i nanci al ar r angement s
21 i n Bever l y Hi l l s, meet i ng Lar r y Kl ayman.
22 BY MR. KRESS:
23 Q Let ' s go t hr ough t he pr ocess of hi r i ng Lar r y i n
24 a l i t t l e mor e det ai l . You communi cat ed wi t h hi mi n
25 December of 2011. And t hen was t hat by phone or - - t hat
243
Page 28
1 was i n per son, cor r ect ?
2 A I met hi mi n per son at t he t i me.
3 Q Okay. What happened next wi t h r espect t o
4 hi r i ng Lar r y Kl ayman, ei t her t hr ough you or t hr ough a
5 gr oup you ar e af f i l i at ed wi t h?
6 A Wel l , I f ol l owed up wi t h a cal l , whi ch he di d
7 not r espond t o. And I had a mut ual f r i end cal l hi mand
8 per suade hi mt o t al k t o me. And t hen we t al ked, and
9 t hen we est abl i shed a meet i ng, a f ace- t o- f ace meet i ng i n
10 Bever l y Hi l l s, whi ch we di d t hat - - t he ver y next week,
11 I t hi nk, or maybe t he week af t er . I can' t r emember t he
12 exact chr onol ogy.
13 And t hen I had t o go out t o our f ol l ower s and
14 - - and I communi cat ed t o t hemt he essence of what Lar r y
15 want ed t o do and what we had t ent at i vel y agr eed on wi t h
16 Tony, and we got agr eement f r oma l ot of peopl e t o do
17 t hat because t hey sai d t hey woul d hel p spr ead t he wor d
18 and r ai se t he money, and t hey wer e i n accor d wi t h what
19 Lar r y and I want ed t o do.
20 Q Okay. So, t her e' s t hi s col l ect i ve ef f or t t o
21 hi r e Lar r y.
22 MR. KLAYMAN: Pl ease don' t char act er i ze hi s
23 t est i mony.
24 MR. KRESS: Lar r y - -
25 MR. KLAYMAN: That ' s i mpr oper .
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Page 29
1 MR. KRESS: Let me j ust as t he quest i ons.
2 BY MR. KRESS:
3 Q Who hi r ed Lar r y t o r epr esent - - who hi r ed Lar r y
4 f or t he pur poses of t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on?
5 A Wel l , t hi s gr oup of peopl e, basi cal l y.
6 Q Okay. I s t her e a wr i t t en agr eement wi t h - -
7 bet ween Lar r y and a gr oup of peopl e?
8 A The onl y t hi ng we have i s t hi s document - -
9 MR. KLAYMAN: Asked and answer ed. Geor ge - -
10 MR. KRESS: Pl ease l et hi manswer .
11 MR. KLAYMAN: I ' mal l owed t o make an obj ect i on.
12 MR. KRESS: You can obj ect t o t he f or m.
13 MR. KLAYMAN: I am. Asked and answer ed.
14 THE WI TNESS: Excuse me? Answer i t ?
15 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on i s asked and answer ed,
16 Geor ge.
17 BY MR. KRESS:
18 Q And you can answer t he quest i on, whi ch i s - -
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Yeah, af t er I make t he obj ect i on,
20 you can answer t he quest i on.
21 MR. KRESS: Of cour se.
22 THE WI TNESS: Yeah, i t was under st ood wi t h t he
23 gr oup I was speaki ng f or t hem. So we per cei ved t he
24 agr eement was t he gr oup, and t hat our commi t ment was t o
25 r ai se f unds t hr ough our f undr ai si ng vehi cl es, whi ch
243
Page 30
1 woul d f uel t hi s ef f or t .
2 BY MR. KRESS:
3 Q Who i s t he cl i ent ?
4 A Who was t he cl i ent ?
5 MR. KLAYMAN: That ' s bot h a l egal concl usi on
6 and cal l s f or l egal concl usi on.
7 MR. KRESS: Lar r y, you ar e bei ng ver y i nvasi ve
8 and - -
9 MR. KLAYMAN: You ar e aski ng i mpr oper
10 quest i ons, Mr . Kr ess.
11 MR. KRESS: No, I amnot .
12 BY MR. KRESS:
13 Q Who was t he cl i ent ?
14 MR. KLAYMAN: I ' mal l owed t o obj ect .
15 MR. KRESS: You ar e al l owed t o obj ect t o some
16 ext ent .
17 MR. KLAYMAN: I wi l l obj ect , and pl ease be
18 r espect f ul t o me as wel l as my cl i ent , and l et me make
19 my obj ect i on. Do not t al k over me. That ' s
20 at t or ney- cl i ent pr i vi l ege.
21 MR. KRESS: Not who t he cl i ent was.
22 MR. KLAYMAN: He al r eady t est i f i ed. Asked and
23 answer ed. He al r eady t est i f i ed t o i t .
24 MR. KRESS: I don' t t hi nk we do - -
25 BY MR. KRESS:
243
Page 31
1 Q What - - what ' s t he name of t he cl i ent ?
2 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer t he quest i on,
3 Geor ge, t hat ' s f i ne, but I have t o make a quest i on, so
4 pl ease - - obj ect i on. Don' t t al k over me when I have an
5 oppor t uni t y t o make an obj ect i on. You can answer t he
6 quest i on.
7 BY MR. KRESS:
8 Q And t he quest i on i s: What was t he name of t he
9 cl i ent subj ect t o Mr . Kl ayman' s - -
10 MR. KLAYMAN: ( I naudi bl e. )
11 ( Mr . Kl ayman t al ki ng at t he same t i me.
12 Mr . Kr ess and wi t ness ar e t al ki ng. )
13 THE WI TNESS: Ther e ar e some l egal i t i es
14 i nvol ved i n t her e, whi ch I may not under st and. Let me
15 gi ve you an anal ogy of somet hi ng I do under st and. When
16 I was i n t he consul t i ng busi ness - -
17 BY MR. KRESS:
18 Q I j ust want you t o - -
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Wai t , l et hi manswer .
20 THE WI TNESS: Woul d you j ust l i st en, pl ease?
21 MR. KLAYMAN: Be r espect f ul of my cl i ent ,
22 pl ease.
23 THE WI TNESS: When I was i n t he consul t i ng
24 busi ness, we had bot h a cl i ent and a cust omer . The
25 cl i ent was t he ul t i mat e benef i ci ar y of t he wor k. The
243
Page 32
1 cust omer mi ght be t he one t hat engaged me. So, I woul d
2 char act er i ze mysel f as Lar r y' s cust omer , but t he cl i ent
3 was Mi chael Voel t z, i n t hi s par t i cul ar case.
4 BY MR. KRESS:
5 Q Okay. That ' s f i ne. Thank you.
6 Ar e you awar e of a wr i t t en agr eement bet ween
7 Lar r y Kl ayman and Mi chael Voel t z f or t he pur pose of t he
8 Obama l i t i gat i on?
9 A I don' t know. That ' s r eal l y not my bai l i wi ck.
10 Q Okay. Don' t know one way or t he ot her ?
11 A I don' t know, no. I don' t know.
12 Q Okay. And j ust so i t ' s cl ear on t he r ecor d,
13 because al l t he obj ect i ons and t he t al ki ng - -
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Wai t a second. Wai t a second.
15 MR. KRESS: I haven' t even asked a quest i on
16 yet .
17 MR. KLAYMAN: Yeah, but you ar e maki ng
18 sar cast i c - -
19 MR. KRESS: I ' mnot maki ng sar cast i c r emar ks.
20 I ' mt r yi ng t o cl ar i f y t he r ecor d. I ' mgoi ng t o do i t .
21 MR. KLAYMAN: I ' mal l owed t o make obj ect i ons.
22 MR. KRESS: I haven' t asked a quest i on yet .
23 MR. KLAYMAN: But l et me make obj ect i ons, and
24 you won' t have a pr obl em. I f you gi ve me an oppor t uni t y
25 t o obj ect , l i ke I di d when your cl i ent s wer e bei ng
243
Page 33
1 r epr esent ed and made t hei r own obj ect i ons wi t hout even
2 you. So gi ve me an oppor t uni t y and don' t be sar cast i c
3 wi t h Geor ge.
4 MR. KRESS: Okay.
5 BY MR. KRESS:
6 Q J ust t o make sur e we ar e cl ear on t he r ecor d,
7 I ' mt r yi ng t o speak as evenl y as possi bl e, t he onl y
8 agr eement f or t he r et ent i on - - onl y wr i t t en agr eement
9 f or t he r et ent i on of Lar r y Kl ayman' s ser vi ces wi t h
10 r espect t o t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on i s what ' s
11 r ef l ect ed i n Exhi bi t 6, cor r ect ?
12 MR. KLAYMAN: Asked and answer ed.
13 MR. KRESS: And he can answer i t agai n.
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Ask and answer ed.
15 MR. KRESS: He can answer t he quest i on.
17 MR. KLAYMAN: He t est i f i ed t o qui t e l ong
18 answer .
19 MR. KRESS: Thank you.
20 THE WI TNESS: Yes, agai n.
21 COURT REPORTER: Counsel . . .
22 MR. KRESS: Yes.
23 COURT REPORTER: Pl ease, do not t al k over one
24 anot her . You' r e st ar t i ng t o make me angr y, and I can' t
25 t hr ow my shoe t hr ough t he phone. ( Laught er . )
243
Page 34
1 MR. KRESS: Al l r i ght . You coul d, but i t
2 woul dn' t do much good f or you or anyone el se. I
3 apol ogi ze, and we' l l t r y.
4 BY MR. KRESS:
5 Q Okay. So l et ' s - - l et ' s t al k about t hi s
6 agr eement her e i n - - i n Exhi bi t 6, but f i r st of al l , di d
7 you, ei t her i ndependent l y or on behal f of t he gr oup,
8 agr ee t o t he t er ms r ef l ect ed i n Exhi bi t 6?
9 A Wel l , what we agr eed t o i s t hat we woul d make a
10 maxi mal ef f or t t o r ai se money f r omour donor s.
11 Q Okay. The agr eement r ef er s t o an upf r ont
12 r et ai ner of $18, 000.
13 Was t hat pai d?
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Mi schar act er i zes t he
15 document . The document f or i t sel f .
16 Geor ge, t ake a l ook at t he document .
17 THE WI TNESS: Okay. I ' ml ooki ng at i t .
18 MR. KLAYMAN: I ask, Mr . Kr ess, t hat you don' t
19 mi schar act er i ze document s pl ease. That ' s not - -
20 MR. KRESS: I ' l l r ead i t wor d f or wor d.
21 MR. KLAYMAN: I t ' s not cor r ect or et hi cal .
22 BY MR. KRESS:
23 Q I ' l l r ead i t wor d f or wor d t hen.
24 I n par agr aph 2, i t says:
25 " To f i l e sui t i n Fl or i da, we wi l l need
243
Page 35
1 an upf r ont r et ai ner of 18K, whi ch wi l l need t o
2 be kept at t hi s l evel t hr oughout t he cour se of
3 t he case r epl eni shi ng i t mont hl y. "
4 And i t goes on t o say:
5 " I wi l l bi l l f or out - of - pocket
6 di sbur sement s and expenses and my hour l y r at e
7 of $395 per hour , whi ch i s r educed f r ommy
8 usual mi ni mumr at e of $600 per hour . The
9 st at ement s wi l l i ssue on t he 1st of each mont h
10 and be payabl e upon - - or payabl e on r ecei pt . "
11 Di d I r ead t hat cor r ect l y?
12 A Yes.
13 MR. KLAYMAN: I t ' s not accur at e.
14 MR. KRESS: I ' maski ng - -
15 MR. KLAYMAN: No, no, i t ' s not accur at e because
16 you ar e mi schar act er i zi ng t he document . What you ar e
17 doi ng i s unet hi cal .
18 MR. KRESS: I t ' s not unet hi cal .
19 MR. KLAYMAN: I t ' s unet hi cal . Read t he next
20 l i ne.
21 MR. KRESS: Okay. We can - - I want t o ask hi m
22 quest i ons about t hat .
23 MR. KLAYMAN: The obj ect i on, because you ar e
24 di st or t i ng t he document , t he document speaks f or i t sel f ,
25 and you ar e not r eadi ng t he whol e document .
243
Page 36
1 BY MR. KRESS:
2 Q Was an upf r ont r et ai ner of $18, 000 pai d by
3 Lar r y Kl ayman - - pai d t o Lar r y Kl ayman?
4 A Not - - not on t he t er ms t hat wer e done her e.
5 We wer e not abl e t o al l t he money bef or e he st ar t ed, but
6 t o hi s et er nal cr edi t , he agr eed t o st ar t anyway i n t he
7 i nt er est s of our count r y.
8 Q Okay. Was t he $18, 000 r et ai ner pai d at some
9 poi nt ?
10 A Yes.
11 Q At what poi nt was i t pai d?
12 A I t was act ual l y af t er t he hear i ng. So, he
13 act ual l y went and di d t he hear i ng wi t hout havi ng t he
14 f ul l amount , but we f i nal l y di d r ai se t hat and par t of
15 t he expense money.
16 Q How much was - - how much was Lar r y payi ng - -
17 Lar r y Kl ayman pai d i n t ot al f r omt he gr oup r el at ed t o
18 t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on?
19 A I t was about 21, 000 somet hi ng. I don' t
20 r emember t he exact amount anymor e.
21 Q Di d t hat - - was t hat based on f ees, expenses or
22 bot h?
23 A Wel l , t he r et ai ner was 18, 000. Ther e was some
24 f eel s over and above t hat , whi ch we wer e abl e t o
25 par t i al l y r ei mbur se hi mf or .
243
Page 37
1 Q Okay. Di d you pay f or any of hi s - - hi s
2 expenses?
3 A Agai n, 18, 000 was r et ai ner and t he r est was - -
4 went t owar ds hi s expenses. So, I t hi nk t hat woul d be a
5 yes.
6 Q Okay. Di d Lar r y Kl ayman i ssue any bi l l i ng
7 st at ement s t o you or t o t he gr oup?
8 A Yes. I bel i eve t her e' s one i n t he exhi bi t s, i s
9 t her e not ?
10 Q Yes. I s t hat - - we wi l l r ef er t o t hat one. I f
11 you coul d l ook at Geor ge Mi l l er Deposi t i on Exhi bi t 8,
12 pl ease.
13
15
16 A Exhi bi t 8. Yes, I see i t .
17 Q Okay. And you ar e f ami l i ar wi t h t hi s document ,
18 cor r ect ?
19 A I am, yes.
20 Q Ot her t han t hi s bi l l i ng st at ement - - wel l , l et
21 me ask i t - - l et me ask i t a l i t t l e bi t mor e cl ear l y.
22 Di d Lar r y Kl ayman i ssue any bi l l s t o you or t o
23 your gr oup r el at ed t o t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on?
24 MR. KLAYMAN: Hol d on, Geor ge.
25 Asked and answer ed. You al r eady r ef er r ed t o a
243
Page 38
1 pr i or document , whi ch set f or t h amount s of r et ai ner s,
2 and you mi sst at ed what was i n t her e as wel l . Ther e was
3 18, 000 t hat was Fl or i da and 25 of i t was Cal i f or ni a as
4 wel l .
5 Go ahead. You can answer , Geor ge. I j ust want
6 t o make sur e you f ocus on t he quest i on.
7 THE WI TNESS: Yeah. Ther e was t he i ni t i al - -
8 t her e was t he i ni t i al r et ai ner agr eement and some
9 dunni ng on t hat , and t her e was t hi s par t i cul ar bi l l i n
10 Exhi bi t 8, pl us he r ef er r ed t o much l ar ger amount of
11 t i me he had put i n t hat he di d bi l l us f or . And at t hat
12 t i me, he f el t he was not goi ng t o be compensat ed f or i t .
13 BY MR. KRESS:
14 Q Okay. So, l et ' s j ust br eak t hat down a l i t t l e
15 bi t .
16 Mr . Kl ayman sent you Exhi bi t 6, cor r ect ?
17 A Let me go back t o Exhi bi t 6 agai n. I don' t
18 r emember whi ch one i t i s. Yes. Yes, he di d.
19 Q Okay. And t hat r ef er s - - I wi l l t r y t o
20 char act er i ze i t because - - t her e' s some r ef er ence i n
21 t her e t o r et ai ner s and so f or t h. And t hen he sent you
22 Exhi bi t 8, whi ch i s a bi l l i ng st at ement .
23 Di d Lar r y Kl ayman send you any ot her wr i t t en
24 bi l l s or bi l l i ng st at ement s or i nvoi ces f or hi s ser vi ces
25 i n t he Obama - - Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on?
243
Page 39
1 A I di dn' t see any har d copy or di gi t al i mage,
2 but we di scussed t he scope of what he had done f or us
3 t hat exceeded bot h of t hese subst ant i al l y.
4 Q Okay. I j ust want t o - - but I j ust want t o
5 make sur e i t ' s cl ear on t he r ecor d.
6 Di d he send you any wr i t t en document s - - I ' m
7 l ooki ng f or wr i t t en document s r i ght now - - t hat wer e
8 bi l l s or i nvoi ces f or hi s ser vi ces i n t he Fl or i da Obama
9 l i t i gat i on ot her t han Exhi bi t 6 and Exhi bi t 8?
10 A Not t hat I ' mawar e of , no.
11 Q Okay. And I j ust t o make sur e t hat I ' mcl ear
12 on t hi s. Uhm. . . r egar dl ess of t he amount s st at ed i n
13 Exhi bi t 6 and Exhi bi t 8, i t ' s your r ecol l ect i on t hat
14 Lar r y Kl ayman was pai d appr oxi mat el y $21, 000 by t he
15 gr oup f or t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on?
16 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. I mpr oper quest i on.
17 Compound. You ar e mi xi ng appl es and or anges. You can
18 ask hi mf or each par t i cul ar document , but not on a
19 compound quest i on l i ke t hat .
20 BY MR. KRESS:
21 Q You can answer , i f you under st and.
22 A Why don' t you ask t hemsepar at el y so even I can
23 under st and.
24 Q When you - - you t est i f i ed ear l i er , I bel i eve,
25 t hat t he gr oup pai d Lar r y Kl ayman appr oxi mat el y $21, 000
243
Page 40
1 f or hi s ser vi ces i n t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on,
2 cor r ect ?
3 A Cor r ect , yes.
4 Q Was t hat based on - - wel l , at what t i me was he
5 pai d? Do you r emember what mont h?
6 A He was pai d i n dr i bs and dr abs, as we coul d
7 col l ect t he money. And we woul d save enough t o send i t ,
8 and he woul d cal l us up beggi ng f or i t sooner . So we
9 woul d send i t pr et t y much whenever he asked when we had
10 some.
11 Q Uhm- hum. And i f you coul d r ef er t o Exhi bi t 7,
12 pl ease.
13
15
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. Ther e' s act ual l y t wo e- mai l s r ef er enced
18 on t hi s one page. The f i r st one i s at t he bot t omof t he
19 page, and i t ' s f r omLar r y Kl ayman t o Geor ge Mi l l er ,
20 May 7, 2012, at 8: 43 p. m. And i t st at es:
21 " Geor ge, Samand Pamel a. "
22 So t hat ' s you, SamSewel l , and Pamel a Bar net t ,
23 cor r ect ?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And i t st at es:
243
Page 41
1 " Thi s conf i r ms t hat I wi l l t ake t hi s
2 t hr ough t he hear i ng on def endant ' s mot i on t o
3 di smi ss i f you pay t he agr eed r et ai ner i n f ul l
4 of 18, 000 bef or e t he hear i ng. You agr eed t o
5 pay about 3, 000 t hi s week wi t h mor e comi ng next
6 week. The r emai nder of t he r et ai ner at t hi s
7 poi nt i n t i me i s 11K. Thank you f or your
8 cooper at i on and best , Lar r y Kl ayman. "
9 I f you know, i s t he 18K t hat ' s r ef er enced i n
10 t hi s May 7, 2012, e- mai l f r omLar r y Kl ayman t he $18, 000
11 r et ai ner r ef er enced i n t he Febr uar y 8, 2012, e- mai l ?
12 A I t ' s al l t he or i gi nal r et ai ner , yes.
13 Q Okay. Thank you.
14 And t hen i f we go t o t he e- mai l above t hat ,
15 t hi s appear s t o be f r ommi cr oma- - -
16 mi cr ocapmaven@aol . com.
17 Do you know whose e- mai l addr ess t hat i s?
18 A Yeah, t hat ' s mi ne.
19 Q I s t hat your s?
20 A I t ' s my - - my addr ess.
21 Q So, t hat ' s f r omyou t o Lar r y Kl ayman. I t says:
22 " We have al r eady pai d at l east 9K. "
23 And t hen I ' mnot goi ng t o r ead t he whol e t hi ng.
24 I ' mnot t r yi ng t o mi sr epr esent i t . I j ust don' t t hi nk I
25 need t o r ead t he whol e t hi ng.
243
Page 42
1 MR. KLAYMAN: Wel l , but - - obj ect i on.
2 Obj ect i on. I f you' r e - - wel l , t ake i t - -
3 MR. KRESS: I amnot - -
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Gi ve me an oppor t uni t y t o obj ect .
5 MR. KRESS: Okay.
6 MR. KLAYMAN: I f you di st or t t hi s t he way you
7 di st or t ed t he ot her one.
8 MR. KRESS: I obj ect t o your char act er i zat i on.
9 BY MR. KRESS:
10 Q The f i r st - - j ust r eadi ng t he f i r st sent ence,
11 i t says:
12 " We' ve al r eady pai d at l east 9, 000. "
13 And t hen t he l ast sent ence says:
14 " That woul d l eave 9K or l ess t o go
15 accor di ng t o my mat h. Wher e di d I go wr ong?"
16 What di d you mean by - - by t hat st at ement ,
17 " That woul d l eave 9K or l ess t o, go accor di ng t o my
18 mat h. Wher e di d I go wr ong?"
19 A I t hi nk t he memo speaks f or i t sel f . Add up t he
20 number s. I t comes t o ei ght , ni ne, $9, 300. That woul d
21 mean t hat I owe - - t hat we owe l ess t han 9, 000 si nce t he
22 r et ai ner was 18, 000.
23 Cor r ect ?
24 Q That makes sense t o me.
25 A Okay.
243
Page 43
1 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect . Move t o st r i ke.
2 Mr . Kr ess, pl ease avoi d t he col l oquy, okay, because
3 t hat ' s what causes me t o have t o obj ect . I don' t want
4 t o have t o i nt er r upt your quest i oni ng, but pl ease don' t
5 put your own t hought s on t he r ecor d. You ar e not
6 t est i f yi ng. You' r e not under oat h. I ' l l put you under
7 oat h, and I can depose you.
8 MR. KRESS: Your cl i ent i s aski ng quest i ons.
9 MR. KLAYMAN: No, but i t ' s i mpr oper .
10 BY MR. KRESS:
11 Q Wel l , l et ' s go t o Exhi bi t 9. Take a moment t o
12 r ead t hi s, pl ease.
13
15
16 A Yes.
17 Q You ar e f ami l i ar wi t h t hi s e- mai l ?
18 A Yes, I am.
19 Q You r ecal l r ecei vi ng i t f r omLar r y Kl ayman on
20 or about August 9t h of 2012?
21 A At t hi s poi nt , I can' t deny i t . I t ' s somet hi ng
22 we' ve di scussed bef or e. I r emember hear i ng e- mai l s.
23 Di d I r ecei ve i t on t hat exact dat e? I don' t know. I t
24 l ooks l i ke i t f r omt hi s copy.
25 Q Uhm- hum. I want t o r ef er you t o par agr aph 3.
243
Page 44
1 I t says:
2 " Ther e i s no f or mal cont r act " - - I ' m
3 sor r y, I mi sr ead t hat . I t st at es:
4 " That t her e i s no f or mal wr i t t en
5 cont r act i s not cont r ol l i ng. Ther e i s wr i t t en
6 evi dence of our agr eement i n t he f or mof
7 e- mai l s and you owe t he moneys under t he l egal
8 doct r i nes of pr omi ssor y est oppel , quant um
9 mer ui t and unj ust enr i chment as wel l as br each
10 of cont r act . A cont r act can be or al as wel l as
11 wr i t t en. "
12 As t he r eci pi ent of t hi s e- mai l , what di d t hat
13 mean t o you?
14 A Wel l , he' s at t empt i ng t o say t hat I ,
15 per sonal l y, owe t he money. I di d subsequent l y cl ar i f y
16 t hat i t was - - i t was an ef f or t t o r ai se f unds, and t hat
17 we had commi t t ed t o t r y t o r ai se t hose f unds.
18 Ot her wi se, I agr eed pr et t y much. I ' mnot a l awyer . I
19 coul dn' t t el l you exact l y what t he wor d " est oppel "
20 means, but t he bot t oml i ne i s t hat we want ed t o do t hi s
21 pr oj ect . We agr eed t o wor k and r ai se t he f unds wi t h our
22 best ef f or t s, and we cont i nued t o at t empt t o do t hat
23 dur i ng t he l i f e of t hi s r el at i onshi p.
24 Q Thank you.
25 But as of August 9, 2012, was Lar r y Kl ayman
243
Page 45
1 aski ng t hat you and Pamel a Bar net t and SamSewel l pay
2 hi s bi l l ?
3 A Wel l , depends agai n what you mean by " you. " He
4 used " you" i n t her e, but agai n, as I t ol d you, we wer e
5 at t empt i ng t o br i ng t he gr oup t oget her t o r ai se t he
6 f unds, yes.
7 Q Okay. Di d you, per sonal l y, r ef use t o
8 cont r i but e t o Lar r y' s l egal bi l l s or Lar r y' s ef f or t s
9 because of any comment s t hat you r ead on Or l y Tai t z
10 websi t e?
11 A Wel l , I wi l l t el l you - -
12 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Assumes f act s.
13 Obj ect i on. Geor ge, hol d on.
14 MR. KRESS: Wai t . Don' t - - l et ' s not coach
15 hi m.
16 MR. KLAYMAN: I ' mnot coachi ng hi m.
17 MR. KRESS: I f you have an obj ect i on, don' t
18 coach hi m- - he' s your cl i ent .
19 MR. KLAYMAN: I t assumes f act s not t est i f i ed
20 t o. Not i n evi dence.
21 MR. KRESS: I ' l l br eak i t down a l i t t l e bi t .
22 MR. KLAYMAN: Br eak i t down, pl ease.
23 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Q I know t hat you, at some poi nt , r ead t hat Or l y
25 Tai t z post ed on her websi t e t hat Conni e Ruf f l ey sai d
243
Page 46
1 t hat Lar r y Kl ayman had been convi ct ed of a cr i me of not
2 payi ng chi l d suppor t ; i s t hat cor r ect ?
3 A Cor r ect .
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect . That mi schar act er i zes - -
5 hol d i t , Geor ge. J ust a moment .
6 That mi schar act er i zes what was on t he websi t e.
7 I t was t hat I was convi ct ed of a cr i me, and t he
8 i nf or mat i on shoul d be gi ven t hat I - -
9 MR. KRESS: I obj ect .
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Let me - - l et me t el l you
11 somet hi ng.
12 MR. KRESS: I ask - -
13 MR. KLAYMAN: The quest i ons t hat you you ar e
14 aski ng ar e mi sl eadi ng, and t hey mi schar act er i ze what ' s
15 i n - - what Conni e Ruf f l ey sai d. So, consequent l y,
16 pl ease r ead t o hi mt hat whi ch was publ i shed on t he
17 websi t e because ot her wi se i t ' s not et hi cal t o do t hi s.
18 MR. KRESS: Thi s i s pl ent y et hi cal .
19 MR. KLAYMAN: I t ' s not . I t ' s not .
20 BY MR. KRESS:
21 Q Mr . - - Mr . Mi l l er , do you r ecal l r eadi ng Conni e
22 Ruf f l ey' s - - I ' msor r y.
23 Do you r ecal l r eadi ng Or l y Tai t z' s websi t e
24 post i ng f r omFebr uar y 23, 2012?
25 A I don' t r emember t he exact dat e, but i t was i n
243
Page 47
1 Febr uar y, and she - - she used Conni e' s - -
2 Q My quest i on i s - - okay. We can - - we can go t o
3 Exhi bi t Number 14.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Let ' s do t hat .
5 MR. KRESS: Let ' s do t hat .
6 THE WI TNESS: Okay.
7
9
10 BY MR. KRESS:
11 Q So, you ar e f ami l i ar wi t h Exhi bi t 14, cor r ect ?
12 A Yes, I am.
13 Q Let me ask you t hi s - -
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Gi ve hi man oppor t uni t y t o r evi ew
15 i t i f you ar e goi ng t o ask hi mquest i ons.
16 Go ahead, Geor ge, r ead i t .
17 MR. KRESS: Wel l , I don' t - -
18 MR. KLAYMAN: He' s ent i t l ed t o do t hat i f you
19 ar e goi ng t o ask hi mquest i ons on t he exhi bi t .
20 BY MR. KRESS:
21 Q I f you need t o r ead t he whol e t hi ng - -
22 MR. KLAYMAN: I ' mi nst r uct i ng hi mt o do i t
23 because t hat ' s t he way you shoul d ask quest i ons; gi ve
24 hi mt he oppor t uni t y t o l ook at t he document f i r st .
25 That ' s t he et hi cal t hi ng t o do.
243
Page 48
1 THE WI TNESS: Okay. Ther e' s a l ot i n her e.
2 What ar e your speci f i c quest i ons?
3 BY MR. KRESS:
4 Q My quest i on i s, di d anyt hi ng i n Exhi bi t 14,
5 af t er you r ead i t , cause you t o r ef r ai n per sonal l y f r om
6 cont r i but i ng t o any of - - cont r i but i ng money t o any - -
7 MR. KLAYMAN: Hol d i t , Geor ge.
8 MR. KRESS: Let me ask t he quest i on.
9 MR. KLAYMAN: Ask i t , but do not answer t he
10 quest i on because i t ' s an i mpr oper quest i on. I need t o
11 make an obj ect i on.
12 BY MR. KRESS:
13 Q Let me st ar t agai n, Mr . Mi l l er . Hopef ul l y, I
14 won' t be i nt er r upt ed t hi s t i me.
15 Does any - -
16 MR. KLAYMAN: You ar e i nt er r upt ed because t he
17 quest i ons ar e - - ar e i nappr opr i at e and unet hi cal .
18 MR. KRESS: I wi l l j ust st at e t hi s on t he
19 r ecor d. Mr . Mi l l er was not or i gi nal l y i dent i f i ed as a
20 wi t ness. He was - - we obj ect ed t o hi mbei ng cal l ed at
21 t r i al . The j udge st at ed t hat he can onl y t est i f y at
22 t r i al i f you gave me t he oppor t uni t y t o depose hi m.
23 MR. KLAYMAN: That ' s f i ne.
24 MR. KRESS: I f you ar e i nt er f er i ng wi t h my
25 abi l i t y t o depose hi m, t hen you ar e f ur t her - - i t ' s
243
Page 49
1 f ur t her pr ej udi ci ng us.
2 MR. KLAYMAN: No. What ' s - - what ' s - - what ' s
3 i mpr oper , Mr . Kr ess, i s t hat you' ve asked hi ma
4 quest i on, and you never asked hi ma f oundat i on quest i on
5 about whet her he made cont r i but i ons, okay. You ar e
6 assumi ng i n your quest i on.
7 MR. KRESS: Okay.
8 MR. KLAYMAN: And you ar e doi ng t hat
9 i nt ent i onal l y.
10 MR. KRESS: No, I amnot .
11 MR. KLAYMAN: And t hat ' s what ' s unet hi cal . You
12 ar e doi ng i t i nt ent i onal l y, okay, and i t ' s an i mpr oper
13 quest i on.
14 MR. KRESS: I t ' s i mpr oper of accusi ng me
15 unet hi cal conduct .
16 MR. KLAYMAN: Wel l , t hen I ' maski ng t hat you t o
17 st i ck t o what - - what i s, you know, what quest i on was i s
18 t hat you ar e assumi ng f act s t hat he never t est i f i ed t o,
19 okay. You ar e put t i ng hi mi n hi s mout h. J ust br eak t he
20 quest i ons down, and you can ask t hem.
21 BY MR. KRESS:
22 Q Mr . Mi l l er , di d you ever r ef use t o cont r i but e
23 money t o Lar r y Kl ayman' s Fl or i da Obama ef f or t s, l egal
24 ser vi ces, because of anyt hi ng t hat you r ead i n
25 Exhi bi t 14?
243
Page 50
1 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. I t assumes f act s not
2 t est i f i ed t o. He never sai d he cont r i but ed anyt hi ng.
3 BY MR. KRESS:
4 Q You can answer t he quest i on.
5 A I t def i ni t el y i nhi bi t ed me f r omgi vi ng mor e. I
6 gave hi msome money pr i or t o t hat . And, you know,
7 f r ankl y, we had a r eal l y heavy hear t - t o- hear t t al k af t er
8 t hi s came out because i t r eal l y shook my conf i dence
9 qui t e a bi t . I mean, l ook at t hi s t hi ng. Thi s i s
10 Ruf f l ey - -
11 Q Ther e' s no quest i on - -
12 MR. KLAYMAN: Let hi manswer t he quest i on.
13 MR. KRESS: Ther e' s no quest i on bef or e - -
14 THE WI TNESS: I ' d l i ke t o r ead you - -
15
16 ( Mr . Kl ayman, Mr . Kr ess, and t he
17 wi t ness al l speaki ng at t he same t i me. )
18
19 COURT REPORTER: St op, st op, st op, st op. St op,
20 st op, st op. St op. I don' t know how many f i nger s you
21 t hi nk I have, but I can' t do i t . One per son at a t i me.
22 Sor r y. Excuse me. I ' mt al ki ng. I f you want t hi s done,
23 i f you want me t o cer t i f y i t , you wi l l speak one at a
24 t i me. Got i t ? Does ever ybody under st and one at a t i me?
25 MR. KRESS: We under st and.
243
Page 51
1 COURT REPORTER: Thank you.
2 MR. KLAYMAN: You asked f or i t , and he' s goi ng
3 t o answer .
4 THE WI TNESS: Thi s i s t he most - -
5
6
9
10 COURT REPORTER: St op. You' r e doi ng i t agai n.
11
14
15 COURT REPORTER: You' r e doi ng i t agai n. St op.
16 Pl ease, st op. Ther e has t o be cont r ol . Ther e has t o be
17 or der i n t hi s deposi t i on. You have t o speak one at a
18 t i me. That i ncl udes t he wi t ness. That i ncl udes bot h
19 t he at t or neys. One at a t i me. I wi l l not cer t i f y t hi s
20 r ecor d i f you keep t al ki ng over each ot her because I
21 wi l l not be abl e t o get ever yt hi ng.
23 MR. KLAYMAN: Geor ge, j ust answer t he quest i on.
24 THE WI TNESS: Okay. May I r ead you t he wor ds
25 t hat caused me t he most angst and di d t he most damage t o
243
Page 52
1 our pr ogr amt hat you peopl e have j ust about dest r oyed.
2 May I do t hat ?
3 BY MR. KRESS:
4 Q Yes.
5 A Thank you. Okay.
6 " Mr s. Ruf f l ey" - - t hese ar e Or l y
7 Tai t z' s wor ds i n her bl og.
8 " Mr s. Ruf f l ey act ual l y advi sed me t hat
9 Lar r y Kl ayman i s not l i censed i n Cal i f or ni a" - -
10 whi ch, by t he way, i s mi sl eadi ng, whi ch I ' l l expl ai n
11 l at er .
12 " She t ol d me t hat he no l onger wor ks
13 f or J udi ci al Wat ch" - - not t hat he sai d t hat he
14 di d.
15 - - " and t hat donor s shoul d know about
16 l i t i gat i on i n Ohi o" - - whi ch i s wher e t he
17 l i t i gat i on t ook pl ace on t he chi l d suppor t - -
18 - - " wher e he was convi ct ed" - -
19 Real l y? Convi ct ed? Thi s was news t o me. Thi s
20 was qui t e a shock.
21 - - " r ecent l y of not payi ng l ar ge
22 amount i n chi l d suppor t . She pr ovi ded a l ot of
23 i nf or mat i on. "
24 Real l y? I wonder what t hat was.
25 " I wi l l publ i sh onl y what i s a publ i c
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1 r ecor d. I amnot publ i shi ng anyt hi ng t hat i s
2 not i n publ i c r ecor d. "
3 Show me, pl ease, wher e t hi s i s i n t he publ i c
4 r ecor d t hat your empl oyee, J udi ci al Wat ch, t he manager
5 of t he Cal i f or ni a t hi ng, who has hi gh vi si bi l i t y, who
6 shows up at publ i c event s, who cr ashes Or l y Tai t z' s
7 sessi on, vol unt eer s t hi s i nf or mat i on. Ar e you ki ddi ng?
8 Yes. I ' mver y concer ned, and I ' mver y angr y. You' ve
9 dest r oyed our pr ogr am, and you hur t our nat i on as wel l .
10 Any ot her quest i ons?
11 BY MR. KRESS:
12 Q Ar e you f i ni shed wi t h your answer , Mr . Mi l l er ?
13 I have a l ot mor e quest i ons.
14 A Good. Fi r e away.
15 Q Okay. So you r ead t he par agr aph t hat caused
16 you t he most concer n, cor r ect ?
17 A Cor r ect .
18 Q Al l r i ght . Do you know whet her i t was t r ue or
19 f al se t hat Lar r y Kl ayman was not l i censed i n Cal i f or ni a?
20 A I ' ve known t hat al l al ong. He was supposed t o
21 go pr o hac vi ce. We knew t hat he i s l i censed t o
22 pr act i ce i n Washi ngt on, DC. and Fl or i da. He sent me a
23 copy of hi s l aw l i cense bef or e we st ar t ed t hi s
24 assi gnment .
25 Q Okay. But j ust make sur e we have i t cl ear on
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1 t he r ecor d, you under st ood t hat he was not l i censed i n
2 Cal i f or ni a, cor r ect ?
3 A I under st ood t hat . But t he way Or l y wr i t es
4 t hi s, i t ' s l i ke he can' t even wor k on t he case. She
5 onl y ment i ons t he f act s t hat wer e most per t i nent , and
6 Mr s. Ruf f l ey as wel l .
7 Now, why i s Mr s. Ruf f l ey maki ng a bi g deal
8 about t he f act t hat he' s not l i censed t o wor k i n
9 Cal i f or ni a when he can easi l y wor k i n Cal i f or ni a, as
10 at t or neys do al l over t he count r y, usi ng pr o hac vi ce?
11 I t ' s ver y, ver y decept i ve on her par t , ver y mi sl eadi ng,
12 especi al l y f or someone, who i s supposedl y a l egal exper t
13 t hat wor ks f or t he wor l d' s l eadi ng publ i c i nt er est f i r m,
14 J udi ci al Wat ch, whi ch Mr . Kl ayman f ounded, by t he way.
15 MR. KRESS: Obj ect i on. Move t o st r i ke as
16 nonr esponsi ve.
17 BY MR. KRESS:
18 Q I t was cor r ect t hat he no l onger wor ked at
19 J udi ci al Wat ch, cor r ect ?
20 A Cor r ect .
21 Q Ther e was l i t i gat i on i n Ohi o, cor r ect ?
22 A Cor r ect .
23 Q Pr i or - -
24 MR. KLAYMAN: Wai t a mi nut e.
25 BY MR. KRESS:
243
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1 Q Pr i or - -
2 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. I t ' s i ndef i ni t e as t o
3 t i me as t o when he had knowl edge. Obj ect i on. Move t o
4 st r i ke.
5 MR. KRESS: I ' mgoi ng t o f ol l ow up on t hat .
6 MR. KLAYMAN: Go ahead.
7 BY MR. KRESS:
8 Q As of Febr uar y 23, 2012, di d - - wer e you awar e
9 - - wel l , l et me st r i ke t hat and st ar t over agai n.
10 Pr i or t o r eadi ng t hi s websi t e ar t i cl e, di d - -
11 di d you know t hat Lar r y Kl ayman was i nvol ved i n some
12 t ype of l i t i gat i on i n Ohi o r el at ed t o chi l d suppor t ?
13 A I di d not know t her e was l i t i gat i on. I had
14 hear d he was behi nd on hi s chi l d suppor t payment s. At
15 t hat t i me, we asked hi m. He expl ai ned t he si t uat i on t o
16 our sat i sf act i on. I knew not hi ng about a convi ct i on. I
17 di dn' t even know t hat t hi s was a cr i mi nal mat t er . I
18 t hought i t was a ci vi l mat t er , act ual l y.
19 Q Okay. So, bef or e t he gr oup hi r ed Lar r y, you
20 knew t her e was some t ype of chi l d suppor t i ssue i n Ohi o,
21 cor r ect ?
22 A I can' t r emember t he exact t i mi ng. You know,
23 we di d some basi c due di l i gence, and we knew of al l
24 ki nds of t hi ngs on t he bl ogs. You know, peopl e at t ack
25 Lar r y Kl ayman al l t he t i me. We t r y t o sor t out what was
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1 t r ue f r omwhat was not t r ue. Basi cal l y, we concl uded
2 t hat he was behi nd on hi s chi l d suppor t payment s, and
3 t hat ' s due i n par t t hat he wor ks f or l ow r ent cl i ent s
4 l i ke us, and he put s i n a l ot of t i me on hi s own,
5 dedi cat i on t i me. So, t o me, t hat was r eal l y, t o some
6 ext ent , uhm, a pr o; t hat t hi s guy i s st r uggl i ng, t r yi ng
7 t o make ends meet , wor ki ng on cases l i ke us, t r yi ng t o
8 hel p t he count r y. He' s not one of t hese shyst er l awyer s
9 t hat char ges hi gh pr i ces and pr of i t s vast l y. Thi s i s a
10 cause f or hi m.
11 Q Okay. Al l r i ght . So, a f ew t hi ngs t o ask you
12 about what you j ust sai d.
13 You, as par t of your due di l i gence, r evi ewed
14 Lar r y Kl ayman' s backgr ound, cor r ect ?
15 A To some ext ent , yes.
16 Q And you f ound a l ot of t hi ngs on t he web t hat
17 wer e, uhm, cr i t i cal - -
18 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on.
19 BY MR. KRESS:
20 Q - - of Lar r y Kl ayman, cor r ect ?
21 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. He never t est i f i ed t o
22 t hat . Assumes f act s not i n evi dence.
23 MR. KRESS: Let me ask i t t hi s way.
24 MR. KLAYMAN: Yes, pl ease, ask i t i n a
25 di f f er ent way.
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1 BY MR. KRESS:
2 Q Di d you f i nd any i nf or mat i on dur i ng your due
3 di l i gence r egar di ng Lar r y Kl ayman t hat r ef l ect ed
4 negat i vel y on Lar r y Kl ayman?
6 You can answer .
7 BY MR. KRESS:
9 A Wel l , sur e. Lot s of st uf f . He' s not exact l y
10 popul ar wi t h t he l ef t . He' s not exact l y popul ar wi t h
11 gover nment or or gani zat i ons t hat ar e bei ng i nvest i gat ed.
12 He i s cer t ai nl y not popul ar wi t h Bi l l Cl i nt on or Bar ack
13 Obama or any of t hei r mi ni ons.
14 Q So, di d you r ead any, f or i nst ance, ar t i cl es
15 t hat wer e cr i t i cal of Lar r y Kl ayman?
16 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Rel evancy. J udge has
17 al r eady r ul ed t he ar t i cl es ar e i nadmi ssi bl e.
18 BY MR. KRESS:
20 A We r ead var i ous t hi ngs on bl ogs. I can' t say
21 t hat we r ead t hose par t i cul ar exhi bi t s t hat you have i n
22 t her e. They di dn' t l ook f ami l i ar t o me.
23 Q Okay. But you wer e awar e t hat t her e was
24 negat i ve pr ess r el at ed t o Lar r y Kl ayman bef or e you - -
25 bef or e you hi r ed hi m, cor r ect ?
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1 A Wel l , yes. Any gr eat man l eaves a wake.
2 Q Okay. So, t her e' s some good st uf f out t her e,
3 t her e' s some bad st uf f out t her e, cor r ect ?
4 A Cor r ect , yes.
5 Q But you - -
6 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on t o usi ng t he wor d good
7 and bad. Vague and ambi guous. And move t o st r i ke.
8 BY MR. KRESS:
9 Q Do you under st and t he wor ds " good" and " bad" ?
10 A I have my own under st andi ng.
11 Q I ' l l wi t hdr aw t he quest i on. I ' l l wi t hdr aw t he
12 quest i on.
13 But you - - you - - you gat her ed t hat
14 i nf or mat i on, and you sor t ed t hr ough i t t o det er mi ne what
15 was, i n your vi ew, t r ue or f al se, cor r ect ?
16 A To some ext ent , yes.
17 Q Okay. As of - - wel l , pr i or t o r eadi ng Or l y
18 Tai t z' s publ i cat i on, whi ch was Exhi bi t 14, di d you know
19 t hat Lar r y Kl ayman had been cr i mi nal l y i ndi ct ed f or
20 f ai l ur e t o pay chi l d suppor t ?
21 A No.
22 Q Okay. So, pr i or t o t hi s t i me, pr i or t o r eadi ng
23 t hi s, on Febr uar y 23, 2012, i nt er net bl og or ar t i cl e,
24 you t hought i t was mer el y a ci vi l mat t er , cor r ect ?
25 A Yes.
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Page 59
1 Q The f act t hat he was i ndi ct ed speaks negat i vel y
2 of Mr . Kl ayman, doesn' t i t ?
3 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Fact s speak f or
4 i t sel f .
5 THE WI TNESS: I s a per son not i nnocent unt i l
6 pr oved gui l t y anymor e?
7
8 ( Mr . Kl ayman speaki ng at t he same
9 t i me as wi t ness. )
10
11 BY MR. KRESS:
12 Q You ment i oned t hat you t hought i t was onl y a
13 ci vi l mat t er . You di dn' t know i t was a cr i mi nal mat t er .
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Compound quest i on.
15 You can answer , Geor ge.
16 BY MR. KRESS:
17 Q I ' l l wi t hdr aw t he quest i on because you' ve
18 al r eady sai d i t .
19 A I ' ve al r eady sai d i t .
20 Q Okay. And i n f act , i f we go down back t o
21 Exhi bi t 14 and r ead f ur t her on, coupl e par agr aphs down,
22 i t st at es:
23 " Lar r y" - -
24 MR. KLAYMAN: Par agr aph 14 of what ?
25 MR. KRESS: Exhi bi t 14.
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Page 60
2 MR. KRESS: The l ast f ul l par agr aph on t he
3 t hi r d - - wel l , what I ' mshowi ng as t he second page of
4 t he ar t i cl e.
5 MR. KLAYMAN: Al l r i ght .
6 BY MR. KRESS:
7 Q And i t st at es - -
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Let me make an obj ect i on. The
9 document speaks f or i t sel f .
10 MR. KRESS: Okay. I haven' t asked a quest i on
11 yet .
12 MR. KLAYMAN: I know t he way you ask quest i ons,
13 Mr . Kr ess. I ' mj ust t r yi ng t o get an obj ect i on, so you
14 can ask t he quest i on i n a cor r ect way.
15 BY MR. KRESS:
16 Q The l ast par agr aph st at es:
17 " Lar r y Kl ayman, 60, of Los Angel es,
18 Cal i f or ni a was i ndi ct ed on t wo count s of
19 cr i mi nal nonsuppor t . He owes $78, 861. 76 f or
20 hi s t wo chi l dr en, ages of 11 and 14. Two
21 hear i ngs wer e hel d i n domest i c r el at i ons cour t
22 bet ween 2009 and 2010. The l ast vol unt ar y
23 payment was made on August 30, 2011, i n t he
24 amount of $1, 014. 26. Ar r ai gnment i s schedul ed
25 f or Febr uar y 7, 2012. "
243
Page 61
1 Pr i or t o r eadi ng Or l y Tai t z' s post i ng, wer e you
2 awar e of t he i nf or mat i on t hat I j ust r ead t o you?
3 A I don' t r emember t he exact amount . Al l I
4 r emember i s he was subst ant i al l y behi nd i n chi l d
5 suppor t , and I di d not know i t was a cr i mi nal t hi ng. I
6 di d not know he was i ndi ct ed. I cer t ai nl y di dn' t know
7 he had been convi ct ed because he wasn' t . A l i t t l e bi t
8 of mi si nf or mat i on t her e, yes?
9 Q So, Mr . Mi l l er , goi ng back t o wher e I was - -
10 how much money di d you cont r i but e t o Lar r y Kl ayman' s
11 ef f or t s i n t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on?
12 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. That ' s l eadi ng, and
13 i t doesn' t ask t he f oundat i on quest i on, Mr . Kr ess. I
14 can onl y assume, because you keep doi ng t hi s, t hat you
15 ar e doi ng i t i nt ensi onal l y. And t hat ' s why - - t hat ' s
16 why I consi der t hi s t o be unet hi cal because I don' t mean
17 t o be abr asi ve, but you know what t o do. You ar e an
18 exper i enced l awyer . You' ve been a l awyer f or a l ong
19 t i me. Ask t he f oundat i on quest i on. Don' t ask quest i ons
20 t hat assume f act s t hat ar e not i n evi dence.
21 BY MR. KRESS:
22 Q Mr . Mi l l er , di dn' t you al r eady t el l us t hat you
23 cont r i but ed money t o Lar r y Kl ayman' s Fl or i da Obama
24 Chal l enge ef f or t s?
25 A Yes.
243
Page 62
1 Q How much?
2 A I di d a cont r i but i on of a t housand, and I t hi nk
3 I di d mor e, t oo. I can' t r emember t he exact amount
4 anymor e. I t was over a t housand dol l ar s f r ommy
5 per sonal f unds.
7 Do you bel i eve t hat you, per sonal l y - - wel l ,
8 l et me ask i t t hi s way. Let me back up.
9 Di d you ever , per sonal l y, make a deci si on t o
10 r ef use t o cont r i but e any f unds t o Lar r y Kl ayman' s
11 Fl or i da Obama Chal l enge as a r esul t of r eadi ng t hat
12 par agr aph t hat concer ned you?
13 A I was cer t ai nl y mor e i nhi bi t ed. I mean,
14 t her e' s a number of f act or s t hat go i nt o maki ng a
15 donat i on, l i ke how much money you have, how st r ongl y you
16 f eel about t he cause, how l i kel y t hi s i s t o succeed, and
17 al l t hose ot her t hi ngs. But t hat di d make me l ess
18 l i kel y t o cont r i but e mor e money, yes.
19 Q Okay. Di d you ever make a consci ous deci si on
20 t o say, " I ' mnot goi ng t o cont r i but e money because I
21 r ead on t hi s i nt er net bl og t hat Mr . Kl ayman had been
22 convi ct ed" ?
24 You can answer .
25 THE WI TNESS: I - - I don' t - - I don' t know. I
243
Page 63
1 know i t was def i ni t el y a f act or , but I can' t t el l you
2 exact l y how t hat wei ghed wi t h ever yt hi ng el se, but i t
3 was a negat i ve f act or f or sur e as i t was f or hundr eds,
4 i f not t housands, of ot her peopl e pr obabl y.
5 BY MR. KRESS:
6 Q Okay. What ot her f act or s l ed t o your deci si ons
7 r egar di ng whet her or not t o - - wel l , l et me ask i t t hi s
8 way. You sai d you cont r i but ed a t housand, maybe a
9 l i t t l e bi t mor e.
10 A Yes.
11 Q What ot her f act or s l ed t o your deci si on not t o
12 cont r i but e mor e?
13 A I al r eady t ol d you t hat .
15 evi dence. He di dn' t - - he hasn' t t est i f y t o t hat .
16 BY MR. KRESS:
17 Q Wel l , you ment i oned t hat you consi der ed a l ot
18 of f act or s, and t hi s - - t hi s i nt er net ar t i cl e was
19 somet hi ng t hat i nhi bi t ed you.
20 A Yes.
21 Q What ot her f act or s di d you consi der ?
22 A I t hought I t ol d you t hat al r eady. Shoul d I do
23 i t agai n?
24 Q I di dn' t hear t hat . So, i f you coul d, pl ease.
25 A Okay. I ment i oned when you - - when you
243
Page 64
1 cont r i but e t o a cause, you ask a l ot of quest i ons, l i ke
2 how st r ongl y you f eel about t he cause, how r i ght eous i s
3 i t , how l i kel y i s i t t o succeed, how compet ent ar e t he
4 peopl e doi ng i t , what ar e t he opposi t i on. Those ar e al l
5 f act or s.
6 Thi s i s obvi ousl y a ver y bi g one and, you know,
7 based on t he r eact i on we had f r ompot ent i al donor s and
8 t he publ i c, i n gener al , t hi s was a di sast er . I t dr i ed
9 up our f unds. I t hur t our cr edi bi l i t y ver y badl y, and
10 i t was wor se by t he f act t hat i t came f r omt he ver y
11 or gani zat i on t hat he f ounded. Ki nd of l i ke, " Et t u,
12 Br ut us. "
13 Thi s was j ust t er r i bl e when i t happened. You
14 j ust - - i t was - - ever yone was ki nd of mopi ng ar ound,
15 and we t r i ed t o f i gur e out how t o r eact t o i t . I
16 f i nal l y wr ot e t hat open l et t er t o Tai t z t o t r y t o get
17 out t o t he publ i c what t he si t uat i on was; t hat t hese
18 wer en' t accur at e char ges, r eal l y, and al so, t hey wer e
19 ver y col or ed.
20 I t ' s i nt er est i ng t hat she ment i oned about - -
21 she ment i oned about t he chi l d suppor t , but she never
22 sai d a t hi ng about t he Har t man deci si on and t he f act
23 t hat t he di vor ce was act ual l y done i n Vi r gi ni a,
24 or i gi nal l y, not i n Ohi o at al l . And t hat t he j udge
25 pr obabl y di d somet hi ng i l l egal i n t hat r ul i ng. So, she
243
Page 65
1 di dn' t t el l t he whol e st or y about what went on at al l .
2 She di dn' t al so ment i on t hat t he ex- wi f e had
3 r ef used vi si t at i on r i ght s t o Lar r y Kl ayman, whi ch, under
4 t he Har t man case, he was per f ect l y j ust i f i ed. She
5 di dn' t ment i on t hat he had gi ven her a house; t hat had
6 he pai d over a mi l l i on dol l ar s al r eady; t hat t hese
7 chi l dr en wer e l i vi ng comf or t abl y i n upper mi ddl e cl ass
8 ci r cumst ances, and t hey wer e har dl y st ar vi ng. I nst ead,
9 gi vi ng t he i mpr essi on t hat he' s a hear t l ess bast ar d, who
10 i s st ar vi ng hi s ki ds. Excuse me. That ' s BS.
11 Q That ' s t he way you r ead i t , cor r ect ?
12 A That ' s t he way a l ot of peopl e r ead i t , si r .
13 MR. KLAYMAN: That ' s not what he t est i f i ed t o.
14 BY MR. KRESS:
15 Q Okay. Let me ask you some mor e quest i ons. And
16 I can st ay as l ong as I want , but I woul d ask you t o
17 pl ease t r y t o di r ect your answer s t o my quest i ons.
18 Ar e t her e any wr i t t en document s i n whi ch you
19 st at ed or suggest ed t hat you wer e not goi ng cont r i but e
20 money t o Lar r y Kl ayman' s Fl or i da Obama ef f or t s because
21 of what was r ead on Or l y Tai t z' s websi t e?
22 A I don' t know.
23 Q Okay.
24 A Ther e was var i ous e- mai l s goi ng back and f or t h.
25 Ther e mi ght have been somet hi ng. I can' t say f or sur e.
243
Page 66
1 Q You guys di dn' t f i r e Lar r y Kl ayman, di d you?
2 A No, we di dn' t .
3 Q Okay. He cont i nued t o r epr esent Mr . Voel t z, as
4 t he cl i ent , and t he gr oup, as t he cust omer , as you put
5 i t , cor r ect ?
6 A Cor r ect .
7 Q Do you know - - l et ' s me ask you t hi s.
8 Di d - - di d anyone, t o your knowl edge, based on
9 your i nt er act i ons wi t h t he gr oup, di d anyone know, pr i or
10 t o r eadi ng Or l y Tai t z' s websi t e, t hat Lar r y Kl ayman had
11 been i ndi ct ed, cr i mi nal l y i ndi ct ed, f or f ai l ur e t o pay
12 chi l d suppor t ?
13 A I can' t t el l you what ot her peopl e knew. I
14 di dn' t know i t , and no one t ol d me t hat he had been
15 i ndi ct ed. So, no. We ar e not awar e of t hat .
16 Q Okay. So, you have no per sonal knowl edge based
17 on anyt hi ng someone t ol d you or wr ot e t o you, cor r ect ?
18 A Cor r ect .
19 Q Okay. For i nst ance, you know, SamSewel l never
20 sai d, " Hey, di d you know Lar r y Kl ayman has been i ndi ct ed
21 f or f ai l ur e t o pay chi l d suppor t ?"
22 A He di dn' t use t he wor d " i ndi ct ed. " Al l we knew
23 was about he was behi nd on hi s chi l d suppor t . That was
24 common knowl edge.
25 Q Okay. Do you know what i mpact t he i ndi ct ment
243
Page 67
1 had on donor s as opposed t o t hi s comment about - - t hi s
2 al l eged comment f r om- - t hat ' s on t he websi t e about
3 convi ct i on?
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Assumes f act s not
5 t est i f i ed t o. Not i n evi dence.
6 BY MR. KRESS:
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Compound quest i on.
9 THE WI TNESS: Repeat t he quest i ons
10 i ndi vi dual l y, pl ease.
11 BY MR. KRESS:
12 Q Sur e. Sur e.
13 Do you know i f Lar r y Kl ayman' s i ndi ct ment f or
14 f ai l ur e t o pay chi l d suppor t i mpact ed donor s wi t h
15 r espect t o t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on?
16 MR. KLAYMAN: Do you under st and t he quest i on,
17 Geor ge?
18 THE WI TNESS: Excuse me?
19 BY MR. KRESS:
20 Q I f you don' t - -
21 MR. KLAYMAN: Can t he cour t r epor t er r ead back
22 t he quest i on?
23 THE WI TNESS: Based on t he f eedback we hear d,
24 yes, i t def i ni t el y i mpact ed donor s. I n f act , t her e' s
25 even evi dence her e and comment s on Or l y Tai t z' s websi t e.
243
Page 68
1 BY MR. KRESS:
2 Q That t he i ndi ct ment had an i mpact ?
3 MR. KLAYMAN: No. Obj ect i on. That ' s not what
4 he t est i f i ed t o. Not i n evi dence.
5 BY MR. KRESS:
6 Q That ' s what t he - - l et me make sur e we ar e
7 cl ear . I don' t want t her e t o be any conf usi on.
8 Di d Lar r y Kl ayman' s i ndi ct ment f or f ai l ur e t o
9 pay chi l d suppor t have an i mpact on donor s wi t h r espect
10 t o t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on?
11 A Yes.
12 MR. KLAYMAN: He' s aski ng about - -
13 BY MR. KRESS:
15 And t he ef f ect woul d be a negat i ve ef f ect ,
16 cor r ect ?
17 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Cal l s f or
18 char act er i zat i on.
19 MR. KRESS: I t does.
20 THE WI TNESS: The sumt ot al of al l t hese
21 comment s had an ef f ect . I cannot par s how much was f or
22 t he i ndi ct ment or how much about t he l i e about t he
23 convi ct i on and how much about t he mi sl eadi ng and t he
24 ot her t hi ngs. No, I can' t . How can I possi bl y br eak
25 t hat down i nt o por t i ons? I don' t know.
243
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1 BY MR. KRESS:
2 Q Okay. Under st ood.
3 I n f act , i f we go t o t he next page of t he
4 ar t i cl e, uhm- - and j ust so we ar e cl ear , t he t op i t
5 says " page 3 of 12" - - t her e' s al so r ef er ence t her e t o,
6 uhm, a Fl or i da Bar gr i evance agai nst Lar r y Kl ayman,
7 cor r ect ?
8 A Cor r ect .
9 Q Do you know what i mpact , i f any, t hat t he - -
10 l et me st r i ke t hat . Let me ask i t t hi s way.
11 Pr i or t o r eadi ng Or l y Tai t z' s websi t e ar t i cl e,
12 dat ed Febr uar y 23, 2012, di d you know t hat Lar r y Kl ayman
13 had been t he subj ect of a Fl or i da Bar gr i evance?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Okay. Di d donor s know t hat , ot her donor s, i f
16 you know?
17 A They - - t hey di d, but at t he t i me, we cont act ed
18 Lar r y t o get t he det ai l s on t hat . And t he way t hat t he
19 bl ogs wr ot e i t made i t appear l i ke he j ust st i f f ed t hi s
20 gal f or 25, 000 and wal ked away, and i t t ur ns out t hat
21 wasn' t t he case at al l . He per f or med subst ant i al wor k
22 f or her . She had many ot her pr obl ems. She was a ver y,
23 you know, ver y t ough cl i ent t o wor k wi t h; t hat Lar r y
24 wor ked wi t h her , vi si t ed her i n j ai l , per f or med ser vi ces
25 f or her . I t was onl y when she was t r ansf er r ed t o
243
Page 70
1 Or l ando t hat he wasn' t r epr esent i ng her anymor e, by her
2 choi ce, not by hi s, by t he way. But t he way t hi s i s
3 pr esent ed i s l i ke she st i f f ed hi m( si c) .
4 Now, I ' msur e t hat your Mr s. Ruf f l ey knew t hat ;
5 yet , she char act er i zed Lar r y as a deadbeat i n doi ng
6 t hat , whi ch was ver y, ver y mi sl eadi ng.
7 Q Do you know i f t hi s comment about t he Fl or i da
8 Bar case came f r omConni e Ruf f l ey or f r omOr l y Tai t z?
9 Do you know one way or t he ot her ?
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Document speaks f or i t sel f .
11 Obj ect i on.
12 BY MR. KRESS:
13 Q I ' mj ust aski ng i f you know. Wel l , l et me ask
14 i t t hi s way.
15 Di d you hear t he conver sat i on bet ween Conni e
16 Ruf f l ey and Or l y Tai t z?
17 A No. I wasn' t t her e. Al l I have i s her
18 char act er i zat i on of what happened t her e. Pr esumabl y,
19 you deposed Ms. Ruf f l ey, and Lar r y has, t oo.
20 Q Okay. Do you know what , i f any, i mpact t he
21 comment s r egar di ng t he Fl or i da Bar compl ai nt had on
22 donor s wi t h r espect t o Lar r y' s Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on?
23 A No, I don' t .
25 THE WI TNESS: No.
243
Page 71
1 BY MR. KRESS:
2 Q Okay. Do you t hi nk i t had a negat i ve i mpact on
3 pot ent i al donor s?
4 A Wel l - -
6 specul at i on.
7 THE WI TNESS: The way i t was pr esent ed on - -
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Geor ge, hol d on, hol d on, hol d
9 on. Geor ge, l et me - - obj ect i on. Cal l s f or
10 specul at i on.
11 You can answer .
12 BY MR. KRESS:
14 MR. KLAYMAN: I have t o make an obj ect i on as t o
15 f or m. Okay.
17 MR. KLAYMAN: And subst ance.
18 Go ahead. Go ahead.
19 THE WI TNESS: Can I measur e t he i mpact , no?
20 BY MR. KRESS:
21 Q Okay. Do you bel i eve i t had some i mpact ?
22 A Do I bel i eve i t had i mpact ?
23 Q The Fl or i da Bar compl ai nt ?
25 BY MR. KRESS:
243
Page 72
2 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer , Geor ge.
3 THE WI TNESS: I can answer . Okay. You know,
4 i t di d have an i mpact on us when we wer e f i r st
5 i nvest i gat i ng i t unt i l we f ound out what r eal l y
6 happened. But t hi s i nf or mat i on, gi ven, i n i t sel f ,
7 wi t hout a bal anced appr oach, i s obvi ousl y - - I woul d
8 t hi nk i t woul d have a negat i ve i mpact on donor s.
9 BY MR. KRESS:
10 Q Okay.
12 specul at i on. Move t o st r i ke.
13 BY MR. KRESS:
14 Q Pr i or t o r et ai ni ng Lar r y Kl ayman, di d you know
15 t hat he had been - - or t hat he had sued hi s own mot her ?
16 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Rel evancy. That ' s
17 not even par t of t hi s case. I mean, i t ' s - - you can
18 answer , Geor ge.
19 Rel evancy.
20 BY MR. KRESS:
21 Q Di d you know he sued hi s mot her ?
22 A I r ead t he descr i pt i ons on t he bl og, and t hen I
23 r esear ched i t and f ound out what r eal l y happened.
24 Q Okay. Di d you - - pr i or t o hi r i ng Lar r y
25 Kl ayman, di d you know t hat an Ohi o magi st r at e - - and I ' m
243
Page 73
1 not suggest i ng t hi s happened by any means - - t hat an
2 Ohi o magi st r at e had f ound t hat Lar r y Kl ayman had
3 i mpr oper l y t ouched hi s chi l dr en?
4 A No. I onl y f ound t hat out - -
6 THE WI TNESS: I onl y f ound out l at er .
7 BY MR. KRESS:
8 Q When di d you f i nd t hat out ?
9 A I can' t r emember t he exact dat e, but i t was
10 wel l af t er we had engaged hi m. And agai n, t hat was al so
11 - - t ur ned out t o be a l i e al so.
12 Q Okay. But t hat wasn' t a l i e f r om- -
13 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. You ar e not t o
14 char act er i ze what t he magi st r at e di d. I t speaks f or
15 i t sel f .
16 MR. KRESS: I haven' t even asked t he quest i on.
17 MR. KLAYMAN: I can see wher e you ar e goi ng,
18 Mr . Kr ess. I t ' s one of your cal cul at ed ways t o t wi st .
19 MR. KRESS: Pl ease st op.
20 MR. KLAYMAN: Your comment s ar e i nappr opr i at e.
21 Ask t he appr opr i at e quest i ons, and you wi l l get an
22 obj ect i on.
23 MR. KRESS: I f I can j ust ask a quest i on bef or e
24 I get an obj ect i on, I ' d be - -
25 MR. KLAYMAN: Wel l , I have t o - - I have t o
243
Page 74
1 obj ect .
2 BY MR. KRESS:
3 Q Let ' s back i t up.
4 At some poi nt , you l ear ned t hat a magi st r at e
5 had made t hat f i ndi ng about Lar r y Kl ayman and hi s
6 chi l dr en?
8 BY MR. KRESS:
9 Q Cor r ect ?
10 A At some poi nt , yes.
11 Q Okay. Do you r emember how soon af t er r et ai ni ng
12 Lar r y Kl ayman, you l ear ned t hat ?
13 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. That assumes f act s
14 not i n evi dence, not t est i f i ed t o.
15 THE WI TNESS: I can' t r emember t he exact t i mi ng
16 anymor e. I t was, l i ke, year s ago.
17 BY MR. KRESS:
18 Q Okay. Was i t , uhm, wi t hi n a coupl e mont hs, i f
19 you know?
20 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. I t ' s i ndef i ni t e as t o
21 t i me. You haven' t sai d t he t i me, and he j ust sai d he
22 doesn' t know t he t i me.
23 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Q Was i t bef or e Lar r y Kl ayman i ssued hi s bi l l on
25 J ul y 23, 2012?
243
Page 75
1 A Most l i kel y. I can' t say f or sur e. Pr obabl y
2 was, t hough.
3 Q Okay. Fr omwhat sour ce di d you l ear n t hat
4 Lar r y Kl ayman - - t hat an Ohi o magi st r at e had made t hat
5 f i ndi ng?
6 A I t was somet hi ng on t he bl ogs. We do sear ches
7 al l t he t i me, and t hi s st uf f comes up. And t her e' s
8 Obama - - pr o Obama si t es, such as Obama Conspi r acy and
9 al l t hat ; r un t hose t hi ngs r i ght away. So, we hear t hem
10 f r omt he opposi t i on.
11 Q Okay. Do you know whet her t hat magi st r at e' s
12 deci si on had an i mpact on donor s?
13 MR. KLAYMAN: Cal l s f or specul at i on.
14 BY MR. KRESS:
16 A I t cer t ai nl y coul dn' t have done any good.
17 Q Okay. And you ment i oned t hat t he whol e t hi ng
18 about - - I don' t want t o mi schar act er i ze your t est i mony,
19 but you sai d somet hi ng about t he magi st r at e' s deci si on
20 was a l i e.
21 Di d you r ecal l st at i ng t hat ?
22 A Do I r ecal l what ?
23 Q You sai d about t he magi st r at e' s deci si on bei ng
24 a l i e?
25 A When I f i r st hear d i t , I i nvest i gat ed i t , and
243
Page 76
1 Lar r y poi nt ed out t o us t hat magi st r at e had come t o t hat
2 concl usi on; t hat t her e was absol ut el y no pr oof ; t hat i t
3 had subsequent l y been r ever sed; and t hat t her e' s no
4 convi ct i on; t her e' s no f i ndi ng beyond t hat . So, i t ' s
5 ver y possi bl e t hat i n a di vor ce pr oceedi ng, t hat a
6 bi t t er , est r anged wi f e woul d say somet hi ng l i ke t hat f or
7 her advant age, whi ch i s a ver y unet hi cal , pr obabl y
8 i l l egal t hi ng, but t hose t hi ng happen r egul ar l y, don' t
9 t hey.
10 Q And r egar dl ess of whet her i t ' s a l i e or not a
11 l i e, i t was out t her e on t he i nt er net , cor r ect ?
12 A Wel l , t o some ext ent . I f someone pr esent s onl y
13 t hat f act wi t hout t he ot her f act s, t hey' r e shadi ng and
14 mi sl eadi ng t he si t uat i on. And someone, who i s i n t he
15 l egal pr of essi on, even i f not a l awyer and i n t he bar ,
16 shoul d know t hat . So, I woul d t hi nk t hat J udi ci al Wat ch
17 shoul d be hel d t o an even hi gher st andar d t han t he
18 l ayman, woul d you not ?
19 MR. KRESS: Obj ect i on. Move t o st r i ke.
20 BY MR. KRESS:
21 Q Whose bl og di d you r ead t hi s i nf or mat i on on
22 about t he - - about t he cont act wi t h t he chi l dr en?
23 A I can' t r emember exact l y anymor e.
24 Q Okay. I t wasn' t at t r i but ed t o J udi ci al Wat ch
25 i n any way, was i t ?
243
Page 77
1 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. That i s f act s not
2 t est i f i ed t o. He sai d he can' t r emember . So,
3 consequent l y, how ar e you abl e t o ask hi mt hat quest i on,
4 Mr . Kr ess? That ' s an i mpr oper quest i on.
5 BY MR. KRESS:
6 Q Wel l , di d you - -
7 A I al r eady t ol d you I di dn' t r emember wher e. I
8 under st and what you' r e t r yi ng t o accompl i sh. You' r e
9 doi ng ever yt hi ng you can t o pr ot ect your or gani zat i on,
10 and t hat ' s your j ob, but I r eal l y don' t know, si r .
11 Q That ' s f i ne.
12 At t hat t i me, you had al r eady - - wel l , we wi l l
13 l eave t hat f or now.
14 So, you ar e not awar e of any document s i n whi ch
15 - - wel l , st r i ke t hat . Let me st ar t agai n.
16 Ar e you awar e of any wr i t t en document s i n whi ch
17 a donor st at ed or pot ent i al donor st at ed t hat he or she
18 woul d not be cont r i but i ng t o Lar r y Kl ayman' s Fl or i da
19 Obama Chal l enge because of what was st at ed on Or l y
20 Tai t z' s websi t e?
21 Pl ease, don' t answer f or hi m.
22 Ar e you awar e of any wr i t t en comment s?
23 A I had r ecei ved - -
24 MR. KLAYMAN: My obj ect i on i s document s speak
25 f or t hemsel ves.
243
Page 78
1 Go ahead, Geor ge. Go ahead and answer .
2 THE WI TNESS: I r ecei ved e- mai l s t o t hat
3 ef f ect . I r ecei ved phone cal l s t o t hat ef f ect . I had
4 r ecei ved cal l s t hat , quot e, Lar r y i s damaged goods.
5 When someone i s damaged goods and he' s a l awyer and has
6 t o t r ust t he publ i c, t hat makes i t ver y har d t o r ai se
7 money, i ndeed.
8 Our j ob became al most i mpossi bl e af t er t hat .
9 And t he donat i ons went of f t o a t r i ckl e. You can
10 cor r el at e t he donat i ons wi t h t he di f f er ent announcement s
11 and t hi ngs t hat went on. That ' s a mat t er of f act . I
12 di d not save al l t hose document s because I never t hought
13 I woul d be si t t i ng her e t oday doi ng a deposi t i on on i t .
14 BY MR. KRESS:
15 Q Okay. So, you don' t - - you don' t have i n your
16 possessi on any document s whi ch st at e t hat donor s woul d
17 not be donat i ng because of comment s on t he Or l y Tai t z
18 websi t e?
19 A I mi ght . I don' t know. I coul d sear ch. I t ' s
20 possi bl e.
21 Q You haven' t gi ven any t o Mr . Kl ayman?
22 A I don' t r emember what I mi ght have sent hi m
23 back i n 2012. I don' t r ecal l . I mi ght have.
24 Q Okay. Al l r i ght . You sai d someone had sai d
25 t hat Lar r y Kl ayman was damaged goods.
243
Page 79
1 Do you r emember who t hat was?
2 A No. I ' ve had so many conver sat i ons, so much
3 e- mai l , but t hat was t he gener al t enor of what happened
4 af t er t hat . Ther e wer e peopl e t hat di dn' t want t o use
5 hi maf t er t hat . Ther e wer e peopl e t hat sl owed down or
6 st opped t hei r cont r i but i ons. Ther e wer e peopl e t hat
7 di dn' t voi ce t he same l evel of vocal suppor t t hat di dn' t
8 want t o be associ at ed wi t h hi mbecause of al l t hose
9 t hi ngs. Yes.
10 Q When you say al l t hose - - when you say " al l
11 t hose t hi ngs, " what ar e " al l t hose t hi ngs" ?
12 A Wel l , basi cal l y negat i ve t hi ngs t hat come out ;
13 especi al l y t hi ngs l i ke Mr s. Ruf f l ey' s st at ement . Thi s
14 was t he wor st one of al l because i t came f r omt he
15 or gani zat i on t hat he f ounded, f r omsomet hi ng t hat has
16 hi gh cr edi bi l i t y i n t he conser vat i ve communi t y. So, i t
17 was t he most damagi ng st at ement of anyt hi ng t hat coul d
18 possi bl y happen.
19 I f Obama, hi msel f , got up and sai d somet hi ng,
20 i t woul d not have been as bad as t hi s, comi ng f r omour
21 supposed al l y.
22 MR. KRESS: Move t o st r i ke.
23 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Q But t her e wer e - - t her e wer e ot her t hi ngs
25 besi des t he convi ct i on comment , cor r ect ?
243
Page 80
1 MR. KLAYMAN: Ask and answer ed.
2 MR. KRESS: No. Al so t he i ndi ct ment - - pl ease,
3 I haven' t even f i ni shed my quest i on.
4 BY MR. KRESS:
5 Q Was t he i ndi ct ment - -
6 MR. KLAYMAN: Mot i on t o st r i ke.
7 BY MR. KRESS:
8 Q - - al so one of t he negat i ve t hi ngs t hat was out
9 t her e?
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Ask and answer ed. We' ve now been
11 over t hi s sever al t i mes. Asked and answer ed.
12 BY MR. KRESS:
14 A Pr obabl y.
15 Q Okay. Was t he - -
16 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Move t o st r i ke.
17 Cal l s f or specul at i on. Go on.
18 BY MR. KRESS:
19 Q Was t he f i ndi ng f r omt he Ohi o magi st r at e about
20 t ouchi ng t he chi l dr en al so one of t hose negat i ve t hi ngs
21 t hat i mpact ed - -
23 specul at i on.
24 THE WI TNESS: That came out l at er . So, I don' t
25 r ecal l t hat was an i ssue t hen, r eal l y. I ' mj ust - - i t ' s
243
Page 81
1 j ust t he i ci ng on t he cake, I guess. But t hat ' s j ust
2 specul at i on, l i ke he says.
3 BY MR. KRESS:
4 Q Okay. But t he Fl or i da Bar i ssue was al so out
5 t her e, cor r ect , at t he t i me?
6 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Asked and answer ed.
7 Cal l s f or specul at i on.
8 THE WI TNESS: Pr esent ed t he way i t was
9 pr esent ed her e, i t was ver y unbal anced. So i t had mor e
10 negat i ve ef f ect t han i t di d t o t he peopl e who had been
11 f ul l y i nf or med. Ther e was a f ew peopl e, who wer e ver y
12 i nf or med. Ther e ar e l ar ge masses of peopl e who onl y got
13 t hi s pr opaganda, whi ch i s f ar mor e negat i ve t han seei ng
14 t he whol e si t uat i on.
15 BY MR. KRESS:
16 Q Okay. Uhm. . . goi ng back t o Exhi bi t 14, I ' m
17 goi ng t o r ef er you agai n t o page 2 of 12, and t hen I
18 want t o al so r ef er you t o Exhi bi t 2.
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Pl ease do one at a t i me so as not
20 t o be conf used.
21 MR. KRESS: I ' l l ask t he quest i ons.
22 MR. KLAYMAN: I ' l l have a cont i nui ng obj ect i on.
23 MR. KRESS: Okay.
24 THE WI TNESS: Whi ch one, 14 or 2?
25 BY MR. KRESS:
243
Page 82
1 Q Okay. Look at t hat - - l ook at t he l ast
2 par agr aph - -
3 A 14 or 2? Whi ch exhi bi t ?
4 Q 14.
5 A 14, okay.
6 Q 14. Look at t he l ast par agr aph, whi ch st ar t s
7 wi t h: " Lar r y Kl ayman, 60, of Los Angel es, Cal i f or ni a. "
8 Let ' s do i t t hi s way, si nce Mr . Kl ayman wi l l pr obabl y
9 obj ect .
10 Can you, pl ease, r ead f or me i nt o t he r ecor d
11 t he l ast par agr aph of page 2 of 12 on Exhi bi t 14?
12 MR. KLAYMAN: I f you ar e goi ng t o ask hi mt o
13 r ead a por t i on of a document , t hen I ' mgoi ng t o ask hi m
14 t o r ead t he whol e document because t hat ' s a di st or t i on
15 of t he document . So, obj ect i on.
16 BY MR. KRESS:
17 Q I guess, l et ' s - - because I want t o get out of
18 her e bef or e i t ' s t oo l at e, i s - - t ake a l ook f or
19 your sel f , j ust r ead par agr aph - - t he l ast par agr aph of 2
20 of 12. Let me know when you ar e done.
21 A Done.
22 Q Okay. Then go t o Exhi bi t 2.
23
25
243
Page 83
1 A Got i t .
2 Q And r ead what ' s - - what ' s l abel ed as, uhm,
3 par agr aph 1 t o your sel f .
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. The document speaks
5 f or i t sel f . Go ahead. I ' l l obj ect agai n. And wai t f or
6 my obj ect i on, Mr . Mi l l er .
7 THE WI TNESS: Okay. Wher e amI on t hi s now?
8 AmI answer i ng i t or not ?
9 BY MR. KRESS:
10 Q Okay. Her e' s t he quest i on.
11 I sn' t par agr aph 1 on Exhi bi t 2 i dent i cal t o
12 par agr aph t he l ast par agr aph on page 2 of 12 on
13 Exhi bi t 14?
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Don' t answer t hat . The document
15 speaks f or i t sel f .
16
18
19 MR. KRESS: You ar e t el l i ng t he wi t ness not t o
20 answer t hat quest i on?
21 MR. KLAYMAN: Cor r ect . The document speaks f or
22 i t sel f . I mean - - what i s t he i ssue her e, Doug?
23 MR. KRESS: I t ' s Mr . Kr ess.
24 MR. KLAYMAN: You know, t he document s speak f or
25 t hemsel ves.
243
Page 84
1 BY MR. KRESS:
2 Q Let me ask you t hi s. Exhi bi t 2. Exhi bi t 2
3 appear s t o be a pr ess r el ease f r omt he Cuyahoga Count y
4 Pr osecut or , Febr uar y 3, 2012.
5 Have you ever seen t hi s pr ess r el ease bef or e?
6 A Not unt i l t hi s - - not unt i l t hese pr oceedi ngs,
7 no.
8 Q Not unt i l t he l awsui t ?
9 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on.
10 THE WI TNESS: Not unt i l r i ght now.
11 MR. KRESS: Okay. That ' s what I ' mt r yi ng t o
12 cl ar i f y what he means by " t hese pr oceedi ngs. "
13 MR. KLAYMAN: You - - you wer en' t t r yi ng t o
14 cl ar i f y. That was a ver y i mpr oper way t o t r y t o el i ci t
15 somet hi ng and not gi vi ng hi ma chance t o t est i f y. Cut e,
16 but not cor r ect .
17 BY MR. KRESS:
18 Q What di d you mean by " t hese pr oceedi ngs, "
19 Mr . Mi l l er ?
20 A Excuse me?
21 Q When you sai d " t hese pr oceedi ngs, " what di d you
22 mean by " t hese pr oceedi ngs" ?
23 A Wel l , t he deposi t i on.
25 MR. KLAYMAN: You shoul d have asked t he
243
Page 85
1 quest i on t hat way t he f i r st t i me, Mr . Kr ess. That ' s why
2 I have t o obj ect .
3 MR. KRESS: I t meant t he same t hi ng.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: I t di dn' t mean t he same t hi ng.
5 And I obj ect and move t o st r i ke.
6 BY MR. KRESS:
7 Q Based on what you see her e, doesn' t i t appear
8 t hat Or l y Tai t z obt ai ned t he l ast par agr aph of page 2 of
9 12 f r omt hi s pr ess r el ease?
11 specul at i on. And I ' mnot goi ng t o have hi msi t her e
12 l ook at ever y si ngl e wor d. The document s speak f or
13 t hemsel ves.
14 BY MR. KRESS:
15 Q They appear t o be i dent i cal , cor r ect ?
16 A I di dn' t par s ever y wor d.
17 MR. KLAYMAN: Same obj ect i on. Same obj ect i on.
18 BY MR. KRESS:
19 Q Do t hey appear t o be - - even wi t hout par si ng
20 any wor d, t hey appear t o be at l east al most i dent i cal ,
21 cor r ect ?
22 A When you wor k wi t h l awyer s, you have t o par s
23 wor ds.
24 MR. KLAYMAN: Same obj ect i ons.
25 BY MR. KRESS:
243
Page 86
1 Q Okay. Wasn' t Or l y Tai t z get t i ng i nf or mat i on
2 f r omsour ces ot her t han t he Conni e Ruf f l ey?
3 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Cal l s f or hi mt o be
4 i n her st at e of mi nd.
5 BY MR. KRESS:
6 Q Let me ask t hi s way.
7 MR. KLAYMAN: He' s not capabl e of answer i ng
8 t hat .
9 BY MR. KRESS:
10 Q Ar e you capabl e of answer i ng t hat , Mr . Mi l l er ?
11 A Wel l , t he quest i on i s so br oad. Does Or l y
12 Tai t z get i nf or mat i on f r omot her peopl e? She does a l ot
13 of ot her t hi ngs besi des i nt er act wi t h Const ance Ruf f l ey
14 i n many ot her spher es of endeavor s. So t hat quest i on i s
15 al most meani ngl ess. Can you make i t mor e - -
16 MR. KLAYMAN: Lacks - - obj ect i on. Lacks
17 f oundat i on. You di dn' t ask t he f oundat i on quest i on.
18 Thi s has been a pr obl emt hr oughout t hi s deposi t i on.
20 BY MR. KRESS:
21 Q Mr . Mi l l er , uhm, what di d you do t o get r eady
22 f or t hi s deposi t i on t oday?
23 A I r ead al l t he document s I had pr evi ousl y sent
24 Kl ayman, t hat wer e most l y of f Or l y Tai t z' s websi t e. And
25 we had conver sat i ons about t he i mpact of al l t hi s. That
243
Page 87
1 was, l i ke, a coupl e year s ago. And onl y mor e r ecent l y,
2 he asked me i f I - -
3 MR. KLAYMAN: You ar e not t o get i nt o
4 subst ance, Geor ge; j ust t hat you had t he conver sat i ons.
6 MR. KLAYMAN: At t or ney- cl i ent pr i vi l ege her e.
7 Ther e' s an at t or ney- cl i ent pr i vi l ege. I ' mgoi ng t o make
8 an obj ect i on. You ar e not t o get i nt o t he subst ance of
9 our conver sat i ons.
11 BY MR. KRESS:
12 Q I ' maski ng you what t he subst ance of t he
13 conver sat i on was.
14 MR. KLAYMAN: And I ' mgoi ng t o i nst r uct you not
15 t o answer as at t or ney- cl i ent pr i vi l ege.
16
18
19 BY MR. KRESS:
20 Q What was t he subst ance of t he conver sat i on
21 wi t h Lar r y Kl ayman?
22 MR. KLAYMAN: I nst r uct you not t o answer .
23
25
243
Page 88
1 BY MR. KRESS:
2 Q Ar e you goi ng t o f ol l ow t hat i nst r uct i on?
3 A Wel l , woul d you l i st en t o your at t or ney?
4 Q So Mr . Kl ayman i s your at t or ney?
5 A That ' s what you t ol d me bef or e, r i ght ?
6 Q I di dn' t t el l you t hat . But i s Mr . Kl ayman
7 your at t or ney?
8 MR. KLAYMAN: For pur poses of t he deposi t i on.
9 MR. KRESS: I woul d l i ke t o hear i t f r omt he
10 wi t ness.
11 BY MR. KRESS:
12 Q I s Lar r y Kl ayman your at t or ney?
13 A We had t hi s conver sat i on ear l i er . We spent
14 about 10 mi nut es on i t , di d we not ?
15 Q I s Lar r y Kl ayman your at t or ney?
16 A Ref er back t o our ear l i er conver sat i on.
17 MR. KLAYMAN: Answer t he quest i on, Geor ge.
18
19 ( Mr . Kl ayman speaki ng at t he same
20 t i me as t he wi t ness. )
21
23 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Q The quest i on was posed f or pur poses of
25 deposi t i on.
243
Page 89
1 A Ri ght . We had t hi s di scussi on.
3 THE WI TNESS: I t hought t hat ever yone l ef t i t
4 t hat he was hel pi ng me f or t hi s deposi t i on. Was t hat
5 not your under st andi ng al so at t he t i me?
6 BY MR. KRESS:
7 Q Do you - - do you vi ew Lar r y Kl ayman as your
8 at t or ney f or t hi s - - f or t hi s deposi t i on or t hi s case i n
9 gener al ?
10 MR. KLAYMAN: No. That ' s a compound quest i on.
11 For t he deposi t i on.
12 BY MR. KRESS:
13 Q Do you vi ew Lar r y Kl ayman as your at t or ney f or
14 t he pur pose of t hi s deposi t i on?
15 MR. KLAYMAN: Fi ne. That ' s f i ne.
16 THE WI TNESS: We had t hi s conver sat i on al r eady,
17 and t hat was t he - -
18 BY MR. KRESS:
19 Q I t ' s a " yes" or " no" quest i on, si r .
20 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer , Geor ge.
21 THE WI TNESS: Yes, agai n. Deposi t i on.
22 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Al l r i ght . Uhm. . . as of - - as a per son who i s
25 consi der i ng donat i ng t o Lar r y Kl ayman' s Fl or i da Obama
243
Page 90
1 ef f or t s, di d you wei gh al l t he evi dence r el at ed t o Lar r y
2 Kl ayman, t he evi dence and i nf or mat i on?
3 MR. KLAYMAN: Asked and answer ed. Thi s i s
4 badger i ng t he wi t ness at t hi s poi nt .
5 MR. KRESS: Thi s i s not .
6 MR. KLAYMAN: I t ' s badger i ng.
7 BY MR. KRESS:
8 Q Di d you wei gh t he evi dence?
9 A Agai n, yes.
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Wai t , wai t , wai t . I obj ect t o
11 t he use of t he wor d " evi dence. " That ' s a l egal
12 concl usi on. I obj ect t o t hat . That ' s a
13 mi schar act er i zat i on. And asked and answer ed. You ar e
14 badger i ng t he wi t ness. You' ve asked t hi s t hr ee, f our ,
15 f i ve t i mes.
16 MR. KRESS: At t hi s poi nt , we ar e goi ng t o t ake
17 a br eak f r omt he deposi t i on. I want t o cal l t he cour t
18 - - t he cour t t o get a r ul i ng on whet her t hi s gent l eman
19 i s your cl i ent and whet her you can i nst r uct hi mnot t o
20 answer .
21 MR. KLAYMAN: He sai d I was r epr esent i ng hi m
22 f or pur poses of t he deposi t i on. You can t ake t hi s up
23 wi t h t he j udge at t r i al . And t hat ' s t he way she
24 i nst r uct ed i t t o be done. She' s i n t r i al r i ght now.
25 MR. KRESS: I t hi nk I can t al k t o a magi st r at e.
243
Page 91
1 MR. KLAYMAN: I don' t t hi nk t hat ' s what you can
2 do.
3 MR. KRESS: I under st and. I wi l l cal l , and we
4 can st ay on t he r ecor d. I ' mgoi ng t o make a cal l t o t he
5 - - at t empt t o make a cal l t o t he magi st r at e.
6 MR. KLAYMAN: I f t he cour t r ul es i n your f avor ,
7 whi ch I don' t bel i eve i t wi l l , he can cer t ai nl y t est i f y
8 l i ve.
9 MR. KRESS: Ther e ar e t hi ngs we woul d l i ke t o
10 know i n di scover y.
11
12 ( Mr . Kr ess maki ng phone cal l . )
13
14 MR. KRESS: Hi , my name i s Doug Kr ess. I ' man
15 at t or ney.
16 MR. KLAYMAN: Can you put her on speaker phone,
17 pl ease?
18 MR. KRESS: Sur e. Can you hear me? Thi s i s
19 Doug Kr ess, and act ual l y, I have Lar r y Kl ayman wi t h me.
20 We ar e i n a deposi t i on. And I have a concer n r egar di ng
21 obj ect i ons bei ng r ai sed; t hat i f possi bl e, i f t he
22 magi st r at e or t he j udge i s avai l abl e, I woul d l i ke t o
23 speak t o ei t her t he magi st r at e or t he j udge.
24 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: I f i t ' s a di scover y
25 i ssue, you woul d need t o t al k t o J udge O' Sul l i van' s
243
Page 92
1 of f i ce.
2 MR. KRESS: Do you have t hat cont act
3 i nf or mat i on?
4 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: I t shoul d have been i n
5 t he docket when you - - when you f i l ed, uhm, you know,
6 t he j udge ent er ed t he or der , t he t r i al or der . I don' t
7 have i t r i ght of f hand. Li ke t he pr ocedur e f or di scover y
8 mat t er s.
9 MR. KRESS: Okay. I wi l l - - I ' l l cal l my
10 of f i ce. I t hi nk when t he - - when t he or der went out , I
11 t hi nk t hat J udge Si mont on or whi ch - -
12 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Okay.
13 MR. KLAYMAN: She' s no l onger t he magi st r at e on
14 t he case.
15 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Okay. Hol d on.
16 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: J udge O' Sul l i van' s
17 chamber s. Br endan speaki ng.
18 MR. KRESS: My name i s Doug Kr ess. I ' man
19 at t or ney. We ar e i n a deposi t i on on a case t hat ' s
20 pendi ng bef or e J udge Al t onaga and J udge O' Sul l i van, I
21 bel i eve, was r ecent l y added as t he magi st r at e. We have
22 an i ssue t hat - - we have cer t ai n - - I have cer t ai n
23 obj ect i ons or pl ai nt i f f has made cer t ai n obj ect i ons i n
24 t he deposi t i on t hat I woul d l i ke t o, i f possi bl e,
25 di scuss wi t h t he magi st r at e and t r y t o get a r ul i ng on
243
Page 93
1 as t o how t o pr oceed i f t he magi st r at e i s avai l abl e.
2 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Sur e. I wi l l see i f he' s
3 avai l abl e. I ' mnot sur e i f he i s r i ght now, but I
4 di dn' t get your name. Woul d you mi nd r epeat i ng i t f or
5 me?
6 MR. KRESS: Doug Kr ess, K- R- E- S- S.
7 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: K- R- A- E- S- S.
8 MR. KRESS: K- R- E- S- S.
9 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Oh, K- R- E- S- S.
10 MR. KRESS: Yes.
11 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Okay. I wi l l
12 doubl e- check t o see i f he' s avai l abl e, and I wi l l be
13 r i ght back. Al l r i ght . Thanks f or hol di ng, Mr . Kr ess.
15 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: I do t hi nk t he j udge has
16 st epped out f or l unch, but I woul d be happy t o t ake a
17 message and make sur e t hat he cal l s you back when he
18 does r et ur n.
19 MR. KRESS: Okay.
20 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: What ' s t he best phone
21 number f or you?
22 MR. KRESS: I ' l l gi ve you my cel l phone number ,
23 whi ch i s ( 561) 693- 9897.
24 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: J ust t o make sur e I have
25 i t r i ght , ( 561) 693- 9897, cor r ect ?
243
Page 94
1 MR. KRESS: Cor r ect . And I can gi ve you t he
2 case name and case number j ust so i f - - you have t hat .
3 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Sur e.
4 MR. KRESS: The case i s Kl ayman, K- L- A- Y- M- A- N,
5 ver sus J udi ci al Wat ch. And t he case - -
6 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: You sai d J udi ci al Wat ch?
7 MR. KRESS: Yes. And t he case number i s
8 1320610.
9 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: 13- 20610?
10 MR. KRESS: Yes.
11 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Al l r i ght . Thanks ver y
12 much.
14 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: I ' l l have hi mcal l you
15 back when he r et ur ns.
17 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Okay. Bye- bye.
18 MR. KRESS: We wi l l cont i nue on and see i f t he
19 magi st r at e r et ur ns t he cal l .
20 I s t he cour t r epor t er t her e st i l l and r eady t o
21 cont i nue on?
22 COURT REPORTER: I woul d l i ke t o have a
23 5- mi nut e br eak t o use t he r est r oom.
24 MR. KRESS: Absol ut el y. Let ' s do t hat .
25
243
Page 95
1 ( Of f t he r ecor d. )
2
3 BY MR. KRESS:
4 Q Let ' s t ake t hi s a l i t t l e bi t at a t i me t o go
5 t hr ough some of t hese exhi bi t s. And t he ones we haven' t
6 r ef er r ed t o yet . Pl ease l ook at Exhi bi t 1.
7
9
10 A Got i t .
11 Q Have you seen Exhi bi t 1 bef or e t oday?
12 A No.
13 Q Okay. I ' l l r epr esent t o you t hat i t ' s t he
14 cr i mi nal i ndi ct ment of Lar r y Kl ayman. I t ake i t - -
15 wel l , I l eave i t at t hat . I don' t need t o ask mor e
16 quest i ons about t hat .
17 We have al r eady r ef er r ed t o Exhi bi t 2. So
18 l et ' s ski p t hat one, and i f we can go t o Exhi bi t 3.
19
21
22 A Okay.
23 Q And I ' l l r epr esent t hat t hi s i s a deci si on f r om
24 an Ohi o domest i c r el at i ons j udge, whi ch f ound
25 Mr . Kl ayman i n cont empt of cour t .
243
Page 96
1 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect . What ' s t he poi nt of t hi s
2 i f you ar e j ust i dent i f yi ng document s, whi ch wer e
3 al r eady i n t he r ecor d. Ar e you j ust r unni ng out t he
4 cl ock?
5 BY MR. KRESS:
6 Q Have you ever seen t hi s document bef or e Mr . - -
7 A No, I haven' t .
8 Q - - Mr . Mi l l er ?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay.
11 MR. KLAYMAN: I f you want , I can do my cr oss.
12 I mean - -
13 MR. KRESS: No. I - - I - - I want t o - - I want
14 t o ask t hese quest i ons.
15 MR. KLAYMAN: That ' s f i ne, as l ong as you ar e
16 aski ng quest i ons, and you ar e not r unni ng out t he cl ock.
17 MR. KRESS: I have t hese and I have act ual l y
18 mor e. I ' mnot r unni ng out t he cl ock.
19 BY MR. KRESS:
20 Q Can you r ef er t o Exhi bi t 4, pl ease?
21
23
24 A Okay.
25 Q Thi s appear s t o be si mi l ar t o Exhi bi t 3.
243
Page 97
2 f or i t sel f .
3 BY MR. KRESS:
4 Q Wel l , l et me j ust ask i t t hi s way.
5 Have you seen Exhi bi t 4 bef or e?
6 A No.
7 Q Pr i or t o r et ai ni ng Lar r y Kl ayman i n Febr uar y of
8 - - of 2011, di d you know t hat he had been f ound i n
9 cont empt of cour t t wi ce by an Ohi o cour t f or f ai l ur e t o
10 pay chi l d suppor t ?
12 Fact s not t est i f i ed t o. Lacks f oundat i on. See, t hi s i s
13 t he pr obl em, i s t hat you ar e t est i f yi ng and put t i ng
14 wor ds i n hi s mout h i n an i mpr oper way, Mr . Kr ess, and
15 t hat ' s why - - I amsor r y i f I have t o use t hat l anguage,
16 but t hat i s not an et hi cal appr oach t o aski ng quest i ons.
17 BY MR. KRESS:
18 Q Si r , di d you know, pr i or t o r et ai ni ng Lar r y
19 Kl ayman t o r epr esent your gr oup i n t he Fl or i da Obama
20 Chal l enge, whet her - - I ' msor r y. We had an i nt er r upt i on
21 t her e. Somet hi ng happened wi t h connect i on, so I j ust
22 want t o ask t he quest i on agai n.
23 Di d you know pr i or t o r et ai ni ng Lar r y Kl ayman,
24 f or t he pur poses of t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on, t hat
25 he had been f ound i n cont empt of cour t t wi ce i n Ohi o f or
243
Page 98
1 f ai l ur e t o pay chi l d suppor t ?
3 evi dence. No f oundat i on.
4 BY MR. KRESS:
5 Q Di d you know t hat , si r ?
6 A No.
7 MR. KLAYMAN: You can answer .
8 THE WI TNESS: No.
9 BY MR. KRESS:
10 Q Thank you.
11 MR. KLAYMAN: And r el evancy.
12 BY MR. KRESS:
13 Q Do you know whet her - - wel l , i n your meet i ngs
14 wi t h t he ot her member s of your gr oup, pr i or t o r et ai ni ng
15 Lar r y Kl ayman, was - - was - - or wer e f i ndi ngs of
16 cont empt of cour t agai nst Lar r y Kl ayman ever di scussed?
17 A Excuse me?
18 Q I under st and t hat you t al ked t o member s of t he
19 gr oup bef or e you hi r ed Lar r y Kl ayman f or t he pur poses of
20 t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on, cor r ect ?
21 A Cor r ect .
22 Q Di d anyone, dur i ng any of t hose meet i ngs,
23 ment i on t he f i ndi ngs of cont empt of cour t f r omOhi o?
24 A Wel l , al l I r ecal l i s he was behi nd on chi l d
25 suppor t . I di dn' t know t her e was anyt hi ng cr i mi nal or
243
Page 99
1 anyt hi ng l i ke t hat . Thi s i s news t o me.
2 Q You di dn' t know t her e wer e cont empt of cour t
3 f i ndi ngs?
4 A No.
6 evi dence.
7 BY MR. KRESS:
8 Q I n your mi nd, as a pot ent i al donor , woul d
9 cont empt of cour t f i ndi ngs r ef l ect negat i vel y on Lar r y
10 Kl ayman?
12 specul at i on. Compound quest i on. I ndef i ni t e as t o t i me.
13 You can answer , Geor ge.
14 THE WI TNESS: Al l we knew i s he was behi nd on
15 hi s chi l d suppor t . We di d not know about t he exact
16 l egal nat ur e of t hese t hi ngs. And when we hear d he was
17 behi nd, we asked f or an expl anat i on. He gave us an
18 expl anat i on, whi ch was sat i sf act or y, whi ch i s qui t e a
19 bi t di f f er ent t han what happened f r omMr s. Ruf f l ey,
20 wher e she onl y pr esent ed one si de of t he st or y, whi ch
21 appear s t o be an i nt ent t o mi sl ead peopl e.
22 BY MR. KRESS:
23 Q You di dn' t hear Mr s. Ruf f l ey' s comment , di d
24 you?
25 A No. Agai n, as I t ol d you ear l i er - -
243
Page 100
1 MR. KLAYMAN: Asked and answer ed. Asked and
2 answer ed. Why do we have t o keep answer i ng t he same
3 quest i ons? I t ' s badger i ng wi t h t he wi t ness.
4 MR. KRESS: I t ' s not badger i ng t he wi t ness.
5 MR. KLAYMAN: You ar e aski ng t he same quest i ons
6 over and over agai n.
7 MR. KRESS: I t hi nk you ar e badger i ng t he
8 at t or ney.
9 MR. KLAYMAN: No, I ' mnot badger i ng you because
10 you ar e not doi ng i t pr oper . I have t o make an
11 obj ect i on.
12 MR. KRESS: I bel i eve I am.
13 BY MR. KRESS:
14 Q Do you have an under st andi ng of what cont empt
15 of cour t i s?
16 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Cal l s f or l egal
17 concl usi on.
18 THE WI TNESS: I amnot a l awyer .
19 BY MR. KRESS:
20 Q Based on your l ay under st andi ng of l egal t er ms,
21 what ever t hat may be, what do you t hi nk about t he t er m
22 " cont empt of cour t " ?
23 A I t ' s ver y negat i ve.
24 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. That ' s vague and
25 ambi guous.
243
Page 101
1 BY MR. KRESS:
2 Q I can' t hear t he answer s.
3 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Vague and ambi guous.
4 Cal l s f or l egal concl usi on.
5 BY MR. KRESS:
6 Q What - - what - - what i mpact does t he t er m
7 " cont empt of cour t " have on you?
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Cal l s f or l egal
9 concl usi on. And i ndef i ni t e as t o t i me. I r r el evant .
10 Cont empt t o cour t as t o hi mgener al l y? I r r el evant .
11 Over l y br oad. Cal l s f or l egal concl usi on.
12 BY MR. KRESS:
13 Q Mr . Mi l l er , can you answer t he quest i on,
14 pl ease?
15 A Agai n, I ' mnot a l awyer , so I woul d onl y gi ve
16 you a ver y r ough l ayman' s per cept i on of what i t i s. So,
17 i f you woul d hol d me t o t hat , t hen I mi ght gi ve an
18 answer whi ch i s l egal l y i ncor r ect .
19 Q But t hat ' s al l I ' ml ooki ng f or , i s what i s your
20 under st andi ng of t he phr ase " cont empt of cour t " ?
21 MR. KLAYMAN: I n a gener al - - obj ect i on. I n a
22 gener al sense? Or i n a speci f i c sense? That ' s what I
23 - - t hat ' s why I say i t ' s vague. I t ' s vague.
24 BY MR. KRESS:
25 Q Okay. I n a - - what i s your - - I can ask i t i n
243
Page 102
1 a gener al sense.
2 What i s your under st andi ng of t he phr ase
3 " cont empt of cour t " ?
4 A Wel l , f i ve year s ago, i t woul d be a ver y
5 negat i ve t er mt o me, but si nce I ' ve seen i t appl i ed t o
6 peopl e doi ng r i ght and st i l l bei ng hel d i n cont empt of
7 cour t , al l i t means i s t hat i t i s a di sagr eement wi t h
8 t he j udge, and t he j udge want s t o i mpose some ki nd of a
9 sanct i on t hat ' s a pr el ude t o doi ng t hat .
10 Q As of t he t i me you hi r ed Lar r y Kl ayman or your
11 gr oup hi r ed Lar r y Kl ayman, however i t wor ked out , how
12 di d you vi ew t he t er m" cont empt of cour t " ?
13 A About t he same as I j ust descr i bed.
14 Q Okay. I f you can r ef er t o Exhi bi t 5, pl ease.
15
17
18 A Okay. Excuse me. I ' mon 3. Okay.
19 Q I ' l l r epr esent t o you t hat Exhi bi t 5 i s an
20 or der f r omt he Ohi o - - an Ohi o cour t , domest i c r el at i ons
21 cour t , dat ed Febr uar y 22, 2010, i n whi ch a capi as was
22 or der ed f or Lar r y Kl ayman.
23 MR. KLAYMAN: I obj ect t o t he char act er i zat i on
24 of t he document . The document speaks f or i t sel f .
25 BY MR. KRESS:
243
Page 103
1 Q Do you know what a capi as i s?
2 A No.
3 Q Di d you know t hat i n Febr uar y of 2010, t wo
4 year s bef or e Lar r y Kl ayman was hi r ed, a capi as had been
5 i ssued f or hi s ar r est ?
6 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Cal l s f or f act s not
7 t est i f i ed t o. Lacks f oundat i on. That ' s your t est i mony,
8 not hi s.
9 BY MR. KRESS:
10 Q Di d you know t hat a capi as had been i ssued f or
11 Lar r y Kl ayman' s ar r est i n Febr uar y 2010?
12 MR. KLAYMAN: Same obj ect i on.
13 BY MR. KRESS:
15 A No.
16 Q Does t hat r ef l ect negat i vel y on Lar r y Kl ayman?
17 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. He j ust t est i f i ed he
18 di dn' t know what a capi as i s.
19 BY MR. KRESS:
20 Q Does t he i ssuance of an ar r est war r ant af f ect
21 - - negat i vel y r ef l ect on t he per son - -
22 MR. KLAYMAN: Same obj ect i on. Lacks
23 f oundat i on. Fact s not t est i f i ed t o.
24 THE WI TNESS: I t mi ght .
25 BY MR. KRESS:
243
Page 104
2 Ski ppi ng ahead t o Exhi bi t 15.
3
5
6 A Okay.
7 Q And speci f i cal l y, page 3 of 12.
8 A Yes.
9 Q And i f we l ook at t hat par agr aph 4 - - wel l , l et
10 me back up one second. I need t o st ar t agai n. Let ' s
11 l ook at page 2 of 12.
12 Do you r ecal l r eadi ng t hi s ar t i cl e f r omOr l y
13 Tai t z?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And i t was post ed on Febr uar y 26, 2012,
16 cor r ect ?
17 A Cor r ect .
18 Q " For Cl ar i f i cat i on Regar di ng Ar t i cl e 2 Legal
19 Fund and Lar r y Kl ayman. " So, t hi s - - you under st ood
20 t hi s t o be a cl ar i f i cat i on of Or l y Tai t z' s e- mai l
21 post i ng f r omt hr ee days ear l i er , cor r ect ?
22 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. I obj ect t o t he
23 char act er i zat i on of t he l anguage used by Or l y Tai t z. He
24 can cer t ai nl y t est i f y based on hi s under st andi ng - -
25 MR. KRESS: The cal l i s comi ng f r omt he cour t .
243
Page 105
2 MR. KRESS: Oh, shoot . We can go of f t he
3 r ecor d f or a second.
4
6
7 MR. KRESS: We can go back on t he r ecor d.
8 We' l l wai t .
9 BY MR. KRESS:
10 Q Regar dl ess of t he char act er i zat i on, t he ar t i cl e
11 i s ent i t l ed " Cl ar i f i cat i on Regar di ng Ar t i cl e 2 Legal
12 Fund and Lar r y Kl ayman, " cor r ect ?
13 A That ' s what i t says, yes.
15 f or i t sel f .
16 BY MR. KRESS:
17 Q And i n f act , i f we l ook at page 3 of 12 now,
18 l et ' s - - l et ' s st ar t under number 3. Ther e' s a l i ne
19 t her e t hat says: " Response f r om" - - wel l , l et ' s st ar t
20 wi t h t he t op at number 3.
21 " Mr . Kl ayman wr i t es: ' You st at ed t hat
22 I had not done wor k on t he pr oj ect . ' "
23 And i t says t her e bel ow:
24 " Response f r omOr l y: I si mpl y post ed
25 a l i nk t o t he compl ai nt f i l ed by t he Fl or i da
243
Page 106
1 Bar agai nst Lar r y Kl ayman. Ot her " - -
2 A I ' msor r y. Wher e ar e you now? Wher e ar e you?
3 Q Par agr aph 3.
4 A You ar e on page 3?
5 Q Page 3 of 12.
6 A Yeah.
7 Q And t hen t owar ds t he t op, t her e' s a headi ng f or
8 number 3.
9 A Yes. " I have not done wor k on t he pr oj ect . "
10 Q Ri ght .
11 A Uhm- hum.
12 Q And bel ow t hat , i t says:
13 " Response f r omOr l y: I si mpl y
14 post ed a l i nk t o t he compl ai nt f i l ed by t he
15 Fl or i da Bar agai nst at t or ney Kl ayman. "
16 So t her e' s - - i sn' t t hat i ndi cat i ng t o you t hat
17 t hi s i nf or mat i on came f r omt he Fl or i da Bar and not f r om
18 Conni e Ruf f l ey?
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Obj ect i on. The
20 document speaks f or i t sel f . The document speaks f or
21 i t sel f . Cal l s f or specul at i on.
22 MR. KRESS: I f we coul d j ust hol d agai n because
23 we ar e get t i ng a cal l .
24
25 ( Pause i n pr oceedi ngs. )
243
Page 107
1
2 MR. KRESS: Hel l o. Yes. Yes.
3 MR. KLAYMAN: Woul d you put i t on speaker phone?
4 MR. KRESS: Yeah. I ' mgoi ng t o. Can I put you
5 on speaker phone? Okay. Thank you. Al l r i ght .
6 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: I j ust want ed you t o know
7 t he j udge i s not back f r oml unch yet . Ar e you
8 r equest i ng an emer gency hear i ng t oday?
9 MR. KRESS: Yeah, because we have an ongoi ng
10 deposi t i on, and i f possi bl e, we woul d l i ke t o get an
11 or der on some obj ect i ons.
12 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Okay. As soon as he
13 comes i n, I wi l l l et hi mknow you cal l ed and you' r e
14 r equest i ng an emer gency hear i ng f or t oday, and I wi l l
15 l et you know when he' s i n, okay?
16 MR. KRESS: Okay. Thank you.
17 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: And Mr . Kr ess, you
18 r epr esent pl ai nt i f f or def endant ?
19 MR. KRESS: Def endant .
20 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Def endant , okay. Thank
21 you.
22 MR. KRESS: Coul d t he cour t r epor t er pl ease
23 r ead back t he l ast quest i on? I f or get wher e I was.
24
25 ( Request ed t ext r ead by t he r epor t er . )
243
Page 108
1
3 specul at i on. Document speaks f or i t sel f .
4 BY MR. KRESS:
6 A That ' s what i t says.
7 Q Al l r i ght . And do you know whet her t hat
8 i nf or mat i on i s t r ut hf ul or unt r ut hf ul ?
9 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. He can' t t est i f y t o
10 t hat . That cal l s f or specul at i on. He di dn' t wr i t e
11 t hi s.
12 MR. KRESS: I f he doesn' t know, he can t el l me.
13 THE WI TNESS: Al l I know i s what she sai d her e.
14 I don' t know i f she r eal l y got i t f r omt her e or not .
15 That ' s what she sai d.
16 BY MR. KRESS:
17 Q Okay. And she, bei ng Or l y Tai t z, cor r ect ?
18 A Cor r ect .
20 f or i t sel f .
21 BY MR. KRESS:
22 Q Al l r i ght . I n your exper i ence as a donor , do
23 sanct i ons agai nst an at t or ney r ef l ect negat i vel y on t he
24 at t or ney?
25 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. That ' s over l y br oad.
243
Page 109
1 And vague. And i r r el evant .
2 THE WI TNESS: AmI supposed t o answer t hi s
3 vague and i r r el evant quest i on?
4 BY MR. KRESS:
5 Q You ar e.
6 A Wel l , nor mal l y, i t woul d, whi ch i s why we del ve
7 f ur t her t o f i nd t he basi s behi nd i t , and I t ol d you what
8 we f ound al r eady. But , you know, pr esent ed as i t i s,
9 wi t hout t he mi t i gat i ng st uf f , i t l ooks ver y damagi ng,
10 doesn' t i t ?
11 Q And you sai d you - - you r esear ched i t . Do you
12 know whet her ot her peopl e r esear ched deeper i n t he
13 Fl or i da Bar sanct i ons?
14 A I f i r st became awar e of i t because ot her peopl e
15 sent me t he i nf or mat i on.
16 Q Okay.
17 A As soon as Lar r y' s name became publ i c, we wer e
18 j ust del uged wi t h i nf or mat i on, bot h pr o and con, wi t h
19 peopl e f r omal l over t he count r y; al l i es, enemi es, and
20 i n bet ween.
21 Q Al l r i ght . So, you got a l ot of i nf or mat i on
22 r egar di ng Lar r y?
23 A A l ot of dat a.
25 THE WI TNESS: I ' mnot sur e how much
243
Page 110
1 i nf or mat i on.
2 BY MR. KRESS:
3 Q A l ot of dat a. And you wer e abl e t o sor t
4 t hr ough t hat ?
5 A Wel l , I t hi nk - - I t hi nk we wer e.
6 Q Okay. And i f we l ook at par agr aph 4 of
7 Exhi bi t 15, page 3 of 12, t her e' s some - - I know t hat
8 Mr . Kl ayman does not l i ke t he way i t was - -
9 MR. KLAYMAN: Wai t .
10 BY MR. KRESS:
11 Q I ' l l st r i ke t hat and st ar t agai n.
12 I f you coul d l ook at exhi bi t - - I ' msor r y.
13 Par agr aph 4, page 3 of 4, and j ust r ead i t t o your sel f .
14 A Uhm, r ead i t t o mysel f . Okay. The one t hat
15 st ar t s: " I r ead t he f i r st post " ?
16 Q Yep.
17 A Uhm- hum. Yes, I r ead i t .
18 Q Okay. Woul d you agr ee wi t h me t hat t hi s i s
19 some ef f or t at cl ar i f yi ng t he pr i or comment r egar di ng
20 convi ct i on?
22 f or i t sel f .
23 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Q You ar e a pot ent i al donor r eadi ng t hi s - -
25 MR. KLAYMAN: Wel l , I want t he t hi ng r ead.
243
Page 111
1 Read i t , Geor ge.
2 THE WI TNESS: I f I was a pot ent i al donor - -
3 BY MR. KRESS:
4 Q Wai t , wai t , wai t . St op. Thi s i s - - t hi s i s my
5 quest i oni ng. I f you want t o ask hi mon cr oss, do i t .
6 Thi s i s my quest i oni ng.
7 MR. KLAYMAN: I t ' s vague and ambi guous.
8 MR. KRESS: Make your obj ect i on.
9 MR. KLAYMAN: And I ' mnot sur e what i t i s you
10 ar e r ef er r i ng t o i n 4.
11 MR. KRESS: Make an obj ect i on.
12 MR. KLAYMAN: I t ' s an i mpr oper quest i on.
13 Geor ge, t ake your t i me and r ead i t f i r st , and
14 t hen answer hi s quest i on. Read i t f i r st , par agr aph 4.
15 THE WI TNESS: I ' l l r ead i t agai n.
16 MR. KLAYMAN: To your sel f . That ' s what I
17 want ed, i s hi mt o have t he t i me t o act ual l y r ead i t .
18 MR. KRESS: He j ust r ead di d, but he can r ead
19 i t agai n.
20 MR. KLAYMAN: Nobody can r ead i t t hat f ast , not
21 even a speed r eader .
23 MR. KLAYMAN: Read t he whol e t hi ng, t he whol e
24 par agr aph.
25 THE WI TNESS: I di d.
243
Page 112
1 MR. KLAYMAN: Okay. Thank you.
2 MR. KRESS: Can t he cour t r epor t er , pl ease,
3 r ead my l ast quest i on back?
4
5 ( Request ed t ext r ead by t he r epor t er . )
6
7 THE WI TNESS: No.
8 BY MR. KRESS:
9 Q Okay. Fai r enough.
10 Wel l , she does st at e i n her e t hat he was
11 convi ct ed, cor r ect ? Or not convi ct ed yet ?
12 MR. KLAYMAN: Pl ease r ead t he ent i r e - -
13 MR. KRESS: Lar r y, I wi l l ask t he quest i ons t he
14 way I wi l l ask t he quest i ons. I ' ve been ver y t ol er ant
15 of you. I wi l l ask t he quest i ons t he way I want t o ask
16 t he quest i ons.
17 MR. KLAYMAN: No, I ' ve been ver y t ol er ant of
18 you because what you t r y t o do i s you t r y t o - - you t r y
19 t o per ver t t he meani ng of what ' s - - or t he wr i t t en wor d
20 of what ' s i n her e. J ust r ead hi mwhat was wr i t t en her e
21 and t hen ask hi ma quest i on, t hat ' s al l I ' maski ng f or .
22 That ' s al l I ' ve been aski ng f or t hr ee hour s.
23 MR. KRESS: We' ve onl y been her e f or t wo and - -
24 MR. KLAYMAN: What ever . Feel s l i ke t hr ee.
25 MR. KRESS: Feel s l i ke f our t o me.
243
Page 113
1 MR. KLAYMAN: J ust r ead - - r ead what i t i s you
2 want hi mt o t al k about r at her t han - - you ar e
3 mi schar act er i zi ng what was wr i t t en.
4 BY MR. KRESS:
5 Q Ther e' s a phr ase i n t her e t hat says " he was not
6 convi ct ed yet , " cor r ect ?
7 A Cor r ect .
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Read t he phr ase.
9 BY MR. KRESS:
10 Q Thank you.
11 A I ' l l r ead t he whol e sent ence.
12 " So t her e was an er r or . Mr . Kl ayman
13 was i ndi ct ed i n t he st at e of Ohi o. "
14 MR. KRESS: St r i ke, st r i ke.
15 BY MR. KRESS:
16 Q I amnot aski ng you t o r ead i t . I f you want me
17 t o f i ght wi t h you, i f you want me t o make t hi s l ast al l
18 day, we can.
19 A I don' t r eal l y car e how l ong t hi s l ast s.
20 That ' s not my pr obl em.
21 Q I ' mt r yi ng t o do t hi s ef f i ci ent l y. I ' mt r yi ng
22 t o conduct your deposi t i on and t r yi ng t o do i t i n good
23 f ai t h. Let ' s j ust st i ck t o t he quest i ons and t he
24 answer s.
25 Thi s - - t hi s - - t hi s i s appear ed on t he same
243
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1 websi t e as t he Febr uar y 23, 2012, websi t e, cor r ect ?
2 A The Or l yTai t zESQ. comwebsi t e.
3 Q Yes. They appear ed on t he same websi t e,
4 cor r ect ?
5 A Cor r ect .
6 Q Al l r i ght . So, a r eader f i ndi ng t he
7 Febr uar y 23, 2012, uhm, post i ng woul d f i nd t he
8 Febr uar y 26, 2012, post i ng, cor r ect ?
9 A Cor r ect .
10 Q Thank you.
11 So, you f i r st cont act ed Lar r y Kl ayman about
12 t hi s Fl or i da Obama Chal l enge i n December of 2011.
13 You' ve t ol d us t hat . And I ' mj ust t r yi ng t o set t he
14 backgr ound. The r et ai ner e- mai l was sent by Lar r y
15 Kl ayman on Febr uar y 8, 2012.
16 How much money had you r ai sed by - - i f any, by
17 Febr uar y 8, 2012?
18 MR. KLAYMAN: Cal l s f or compound quest i on.
19 THE WI TNESS: I can' t r emember t he exact amount
20 at t hat t i me. I di dn' t t i me phase t he donat i ons, but we
21 wer e get t i ng a l ot of money ear l y on, and i t ki nd of
22 t ook a pl unge of f a cl i f f t owar d t he end of t he mont h.
23 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Q So, l et me ask i t - - I ' mgoi ng t o br eak t hi s
25 down a l ot as much as we can.
243
Page 115
1 Had you r ai sed any money t o pay Lar r y Kl ayman
2 by Febr uar y 8, 2012?
3 A Yes.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Febr uar y, what dat e?
5 BY MR. KRESS:
6 Q Febr uar y 8, 2012.
7 A Yes, yes.
8 Q Do you know how much, ei t her exact l y or as a
9 bal l par k?
10 A I don' t r emember . I know we had l i ke a f ew
11 l ar ge donat i ons up f r ont . I t hi nk we act ual l y r ai sed
12 most of i t bef or e al l t hi s happened, and sl owed down
13 qui t e a bi t af t er t hat , but I don' t r emember t he exact
14 t i me phasi ng, honest l y.
15 Q When di d you donat e your t housand dol l ar s?
16 A The dat e? I t hi nk i t was bef or e t hi s.
17 Q Bef or e Febr uar y 8t h?
18 A I can' t - - I can get t hat i nf or mat i on because
19 i t woul d be i n my check r egi st er i f t hat ' s necessar y.
20 Q Okay. Al l r i ght . So, you don' t r eal l y know
21 exact l y how much you r ai sed by Febr uar y 8t h of 2012,
22 cor r ect ?
23 A I don' t r emember . I don' t r emember .
24 Q But you got - - you i ndi cat ed t hat most of t he
25 donat i ons came i n ear l y, cor r ect ?
243
Page 116
1 A Yes. They di d, yes.
2 Q And how much - - how much i n donat i ons came i n
3 bet ween Febr uar y 8t h, 2012 and Febr uar y 23, 2012?
4 A I don' t r emember .
5 Q Okay. Wel l , i f we l ook at Exhi bi t 7, as of - -
6 t ake your t i me t o get t her e.
7 A Okay.
8 Q And I ' mr ef er r i ng t o t he t op e- mai l t her e. I ' m
9 goi ng t o gi ve Mr . Kl ayman a chance t o get hi s copi es i n
10 f r ont of hi m.
11 A Go ahead.
12 Q As of May 7, 2012, what had been pai d was, f or
13 sur e, was 5, 000 pl us 3, 300 pl us 1, 000 cor r ect ?
14 A That ' s what i t says.
15 Q Okay. To be f ai r , i t does say bel ow t hat :
16 " An unknown amount was sent di r ect l y
17 f r ompeopl e gi ven your addr ess and bank number
18 whi l e we wer e t r yi ng t o get
19 Const i t ut i onal Act i onFund. com, I nc. st ar t ed. "
20 And you asked hi mhow much he r ecei ved
21 di r ect l y. Di d he ever answer you?
22 A He sai d not much.
23 Q Okay. But as of May, you knew t hat $9, 300 had
24 been r ai sed f or t hi s Obama chal l enge?
25 A Cor r ect .
243
Page 117
1 Q I s i t f ai r f or me t o assume t hen or woul d i t be
2 accur at e t o assume t hat some number l ess t han $9, 300 had
3 been r ai sed bef or e Febr uar y 23, 2012?
4 A That woul d be a - -
6 specul at i on. Cal l s f or specul at i on.
7 BY MR. KRESS:
8 Q I f you answer ed, I coul dn' t hear you.
9 A Pr obabl y.
10 Q Okay. Do you know how much was r ai sed bet ween
11 Febr uar y of 23, 2012 and May 7, 2012?
12 A No.
13 Q Di d you or t he gr oup ever pr omi se a speci f i c
14 amount t hat woul d be r ai sed f or Lar r y Kl ayman?
15 A We di d say t hat we woul d r ai se t he r et ai ner and
16 pay expenses and t hen t hat we woul d pay $395 per hour
17 t her eaf t er when we got past t hat t hr eshol d.
18 Q But i n t er ms of a speci f i c amount , whet her t hat
19 was anot her $20, 000 or hundr ed t housand dol l ar s, never
20 made any speci f i c r ef er ence?
21 A We knew i t was by bi g number . We di dn' t know
22 what i t was at t hat poi nt .
23 Q So, as of May 2012, May 7, 2012, you had r ai sed
24 t hi s $9, 300. And Mr . Kl ayman was pai d at l east ni ne - -
25 a t ot al of $21, 000, appr oxi mat el y. So i t ' s f ai r t o
243
Page 118
1 assume t hat somewher e bet ween May 7, 2012, and t he
2 concl usi on of t he r epr esent at i on, t he gr oup was abl e t o
3 r ai se anot her appr oxi mat el y $12, 000?
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Wai t . Obj ect i on. Assumes f act s
5 not t est i f i ed t o. He never t est i f i ed t o t hat .
6 MR. KRESS: He can t el l me i f i t ' s wr ong.
7 THE WI TNESS: Wel l , si nce we gave hi m- -
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Do you under st and t he quest i on?
9 I don' t .
10 THE WI TNESS: - - t he ni ne and we gave hi mmor e
11 t han t hat af t er war ds, t hat woul d have t o be
12 mat hemat i cal l y cor r ect , yes.
13 BY MR. KRESS:
14 Q I n ot her wor ds, t he di f f er ence bet ween t he
15 21, 000 appr oxi mat el y and t he 9, 300 was r ai sed subsequent
16 t o May 7, 2012?
17 A I t was. That ' s al l we wer e abl e t o f i nd i n
18 spi t e of t he f act t hat we had a nat i onal publ i ci t y
19 campai gn goi ng.
20 Q Okay. Your t housand dol l ar s, i s t hat account ed
21 f or i n t hi s May 7, 2012, e- mai l ?
22 A I t hi nk so. Pr et t y sur e I had.
23 Q Wher e?
24 A I ' mpr et t y sur e I had al r eady denot ed. I
25 di dn' t i t emi zed t he - - I j ust had payment s. I di dn' t
243
Page 119
1 have i t emi zat i on of t he sour ces i n t hi s document .
2 Q Okay. Di d i t come - - was t he - -
3 MR. KRESS: Let ' s st op agai n because t he cal l
4 i s comi ng i n f r omt he cour t .
5 Hel l o.
6 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Thi s i s Br endan cal l i ng
7 f r omJ udge O' Sul l i van' s chamber s. I j ust want ed t o l et
8 you know t hat t he cl er ks handl e t he schedul es, and what
9 t hey came up wi t h was i f you guys want t o t r y and cal l
10 back at 2: 30, see i f t he j udge i s avai l abl e, he was open
11 t o t hat suggest i on, but I guess t hat ' s t he best he can
12 do r i ght now.
13 MR. KRESS: Look, can I t hi nk about t hat and
14 cal l you back?
15 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: Sur e, t hat ' s f i ne.
16 MR. KRESS: What number i s shoul d I use t o cal l
17 you back?
18 UNI DENTI FI ED PERSON: You know, wi t h t he j udge,
19 ( 305) 923- 5920.
21 MR. KLAYMAN: Can we go of f t he r ecor d f or a
22 second?
23
25
243
Page 120
1 BY MR. KRESS:
2 Q Bef or e we went of f t he r ecor d, uhm, I had asked
3 you wher e your t housand- dol l ar cont r i but i on was
4 r ef er enced i n pl ai nt i f f ' s exhi bi t , I ' msor r y, Exhi bi t 7.
5 I don' t t hi nk you had a chance t o answer t hat yet or
6 maybe you st ar t ed t o.
7 A I di d not i t emi ze t he cont r i but i ons. I mer el y
8 put t he dat es of t he payment s. So, at t hi s - - at - -
9 t hi s par t i cul ar l et t er does not show a speci f i c
10 cont r i but i on f r omme or any ot her per son.
11 Q I s your cont r i but i on, t hough, wi t hi n t he
12 dol l ar s r ef er enced i n Exhi bi t 7?
13 A Yeah. I ' mpr et t y sur e i t i s. Yes.
14 Q Okay. Di d you cont r i but e anyt hi ng af t er May 7,
15 2012?
16 A I don' t t hi nk so.
17 Q Why not ?
18 A Wel l , we wer e pr et t y cl ose t o t he hear i ng by
19 t hen, and I had l i mi t ed means al so because I have ot her
20 causes t hat I suppor t besi des t hi s. I mi ght have put
21 mor e i n. I f you ar e get t i ng ar ound t o, di d t hi s i nhi bi t
22 me? You know, i t mi ght have, I don' t know.
23 Q Okay. And I bel i eve you i ndi cat ed t hat most of
24 t he donat i ons came i n ear l y or somet hi ng t o t hat ef f ect .
25 That ' s what my not es say.
243
Page 121
1 Do you agr ee t hat most of t he donat i ons came i n
2 ear l y i n t he r epr esent at i on?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And what i s your def i ni t i on of " ear l y" i n t hi s
5 cont ext wi t h r espect t o t he donat i ons?
6 A Ear l y, bef or e t he cont est ed t i mes of l at e
7 Febr uar y.
8 Q Okay. Wer e you awar e t hat Mr . Kl ayman al so
9 f i l ed an Obama Chal l enge case i n Al abama?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Di d you have any i nvol vement i n t hat ?
12 A Di d I ? Onl y i n publ i ci t y, and I know some
13 peopl e i nvol ved i n t he case. I know Vi r gi l Goode, and I
14 al so amf ami l i ar wi t h some of t he peopl e t hat suppor t ed
15 i t .
16 Q Vi r gi l Goode? Di d you a Goode?
17 A Goode, yeah. G- O- O- D- E.
18 Q He i s t he pl ai nt i f f , a named pl ai nt i f f i n t he
19 Al abama case, cor r ect ?
20 A He was one of t he pl ai nt i f f s, yeah. Ther e wer e
21 t wo pl ai nt i f f s. The ot her name al l udes me at t he
22 moment .
23 Q Di d you make any monet ar y cont r i but i ons, ei t her
24 i ndi vi dual l y or t hr ough any of your or gani zat i ons, t o
25 t he Al abama Obama l i t i gat i on?
243
Page 122
1 A No.
2 Q Do you know anyone who di d?
3 A I can' t r emember speci f i c amount s, but some
4 peopl e sai d t hey wer e suppor t i ng i t , but I don' t have
5 det ai l ed knowl edge of who cont r i but ed, no.
6 Q Who do you r ecal l sayi ng t hey wer e goi ng t o
7 cont r i but e t o t hat Al abama case?
8 A I woul d r at her not ment i on any names r i ght now.
9 Q I ' msor r y, but t hat ' s - - I under st and you woul d
10 r at her not , but I ' mact ual l y - -
11 A I t hi nk Br i an Ri l ey, f or exampl e, was ver y
12 i nt er est ed. That ' s one name t hat pops up of someone who
13 was ver y mot i vat ed about t hat case and act ual l y knows
14 t he - - t he head of t he Supr eme Cour t i n Al abama, J udge
15 Moor e.
16 MR. KLAYMAN: J ust answer t he quest i on,
17 Mr . Mi l l er .
18 BY MR. KRESS:
19 Q Do you know how much Br i an Ri l ey cont r i but ed?
20 A I have no i dea.
21 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Assumes f act s not i n.
22 I t ' s not i n evi dence. He sai d he di dn' t know.
23 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Q Do you know anyone el se who cont r i but ed t o t he
25 Obama l i t i gat i on f i l ed i n Al abama by Lar r y Kl ayman?
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1 A I do not have any det ai l ed knowl edge about
2 t hat .
3 Q Di d you encour age peopl e t o cont r i but e t o t he
4 Al abama Obama l i t i gat i on f i l ed by Mr . Kl ayman?
5 A Yes.
6 Q When was t he Al abama Obama l i t i gat i on f i l ed?
7 A Oh, qui t e a whi l e ago. I t hi nk i t was i n l at e
8 2011. Thi s goes back - - i t was over a year . I know i t
9 t ook a year f r omt he t i me i t was f i l ed, wel l over a year
10 t o f i nal l y have t he hear i ng, and t hat was done wel l
11 af t er t he el ect i on.
12 Q Do you know i f t he Al abama Obama l i t i gat i on was
13 f i l ed bef or e or af t er t he Fl or i da Obama l i t i gat i on?
14 A The Fl or i da was f i l ed i n, I bel i eve, J anuar y of
15 2012. I ' mt hi nki ng t hat was bef or e t he Al abama case.
16 Q So, t he Al abama case - -
17 A Lar r y di dn' t get i nvol ved i n t hat case
18 i ni t i al l y. He came i n l at er on, as I r ecal l . AmI
19 r i ght , Lar r y?
20 MR. KLAYMAN: I can' t t est i f y her e cont r ar y t o
21 my est eemed counsel , who t est i f i es somet i mes.
22 MR. KRESS: I obj ect t o t hat comment , but .
23 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Q But j ust so I under st and you, I t hi nk t hat what
25 you ar e sayi ng i s t he Al abama l i t i gat i on been f i l ed
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1 bef or e t he Fl or i da l i t i gat i on, but t hat Lar r y di d not
2 get on - - get i nvol ved i n t he Al abama l i t i gat i on r i ght
3 away?
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. Compound quest i on.
5 BY MR. KRESS:
6 Q I s t hat cor r ect ?
7 A That ' s my per cept i on, yes.
8 Q Okay. Wer e you encour agi ng - - wel l , l et me ask
9 i t t hi s way. To your knowl edge, was Lar r y' s f i r st
10 i nvol vement wi t h an Obama l i t i gat i on chal l enge t he
11 Fl or i da l i t i gat i on?
12 A Excuse me? Was Lar r y' s what ?
13 Q To your knowl edge, t o your knowl edge, was
14 Mr . Kl ayman' s f i r st i nvol vement wi t h t he Obama
15 l i t i gat i on t he Fl or i da l i t i gat i on?
16 A Wel l , t hey ar e al l Obama l i t i gat i ons. The
17 Fl or i da case was Obama l i t i gat i on. The Al abama case was
18 al so r el at ed t o t he el i gi bi l i t y on t he bal l ot pl acement
19 of Obama.
20 Q Okay. I asked - - I asked t he quest i on wr ong.
21 Whi ch st at e di d Lar r y become i nvol ved i n f i r st
22 i f you know? Di d he become i nvol ved f i r st i n Fl or i da or
23 Al abama?
24 A I bel i eve i t was Al abama - - excuse me.
25 Fl or i da, and t hat t he Al abama came l at er . As f ar as I
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1 know, we wer e t he ones t hat i nt r oduced hi mi nt o t he
2 el i gi bi l i t y movement and l i t i gat i on. To t he best of my
3 knowl edge, but I can' t speak f or ever yt hi ng Lar r y di d.
4 I don' t know what he does. He' s not account abl e t o me.
5 Q Di d you cont r i but e t o - - I ' msor r y.
6 Di d you encour age peopl e t o cont r i but e t o t he
7 Al abama l i t i gat i on af t er Lar r y became i nvol ved?
8 A I ' ve al ways encour aged peopl e t o cont r i but e t o
9 al l of t he el i gi bi l i t y cases.
10 Q I ncl udi ng t he Al abama l i t i gat i on af t er Lar r y
11 became i nvol ved?
12 A Al l cases. The quest i on i s, di d t hey? My
13 commi t ment - - my commi t ment has not been di mi ni shed as a
14 r esul t of t hi s. Cer t ai nl y been t r i ed, but I ' ve kept my
15 commi t ment up unt i l t oday.
16 MR. KRESS: Okay. Ar e you goi ng t o have some
17 quest i ons?
18 MR. KLAYMAN: I may. I have t o t ake a br eak
19 and l et you know.
20 MR. KRESS: Let ' s t ake a shor t br eak t hen.
21 I ' l l t hi nk about whet her I have mor e quest i ons.
22 MR. KLAYMAN: Ar e you done f or t he moment ?
23 MR. KRESS: We can go of f t he r ecor d.
24
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1
2 BY MR. KRESS:
3 Q Mr . Mi l l er , have you ever communi cat ed wi t h
4 anyone f r omJ udi ci al Wat ch?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Wi t h whom?
7 A I can' t r emember t he name of t he per son, but I
8 cal l ed J udi ci al Wat ch mul t i pl e t i mes and al so saw t hem
9 at var i ous event s wher e t hey had boot hs, aski ng t hemi f
10 t hey woul d r epr esent us i n t he el i gi bi l i t y ef f or t , and
11 t hey t ur ned us down f l at .
12 Q Okay. Have you had any ot her cont act s wi t h
13 J udi ci al Wat ch?
14 A I don' t t hi nk so.
15 Q Okay. Was t her e a r eason st at ed f or t ur ni ng
16 you down f or t he Obama cases?
17 A On one, I was t ol d t hey di dn' t get i nt o t hat
18 ar ea. Anot her one - -
20 THE WI TNESS: Okay. No, I wasn' t .
22 THE WI TNESS: J ust what I t ol d you.
23 BY MR. KRESS:
24 Q I coul dn' t under st and what you sai d, I ' msor r y,
25 because Mr . Kl ayman was obj ect i ng.
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1 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on on r el evancy.
2 BY MR. KRESS:
3 Q I ' msor r y, I j ust coul dn' t hear you. What was
4 - - what was t he r eason, i f any, st at ed f or not accept i ng
5 t he cases or hel pi ng wi t h t he cases?
6 A I ' ve j ust been t ol d i t was i r r el evant .
7 MR. KLAYMAN: You can r espond. That ' s an
8 obj ect i on on t he r ecor d.
9 THE WI TNESS: Okay. Once, I was t ol d t hat t hey
10 di dn' t get i nt o t hat sor t of t hi ng, and t he ot her t i mes
11 I was not gi ven a r eason.
12 MR. KRESS: Al l r i ght . Thank you. Those ar e
13 al l t he quest i ons I have f or you f or now.
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Okay. We ar e goi ng t o t ake a
15 5- mi nut e br eak.
16
18
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Back on t he r ecor d. We ar e goi ng
20 t o get i nt o our cr oss- exami nat i on.
22
23
24
25
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1 CROSS- EXAMI NATI ON
2
3 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
4 Q Okay. Mr . Mi l l er .
5 A Yes. Can you hear me?
6 Q Yes.
7 A I ' l l t ur n your at t ent i on t o Exhi bi t 14.
8 Q Okay. Tur n t o t he sect i on cal l ed " Comment s, "
9 whi ch i s on page 4.
10 A Got i t .
11 Q The f i r st comment , Bl oodl ess Coup, Febr uar y 23,
12 2012, 7: 20 a. m. , can you r ead t hat ?
13 A Yeah.
14 MR. KRESS: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect . The document
15 speak f or i t sel f .
16 MR. KLAYMAN: I ' mact ual l y aski ng hi mt o r ead
17 i t , Mr . Kr ess. I ' mnot mi schar act er i zi ng i t . That ' s
18 t he di f f er ence bet ween my quest i oni ng.
19 MR. KRESS: I won' t do i t agai n. I was j ust
20 maki ng a j oke.
21 MR. KLAYMAN: Al l r i ght . That ' s f i ne.
22 THE WI TNESS: " I was i ni t i al l y exci t ed about
23 Lar r y Kl ayman and hel ped t he news about hi mt o
24 go vi r al . Now I ' mwonder i ng about hi mand what
25 hi s t r ue mot i ves mi ght be. "
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1 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
2 Q Di d you see t hat i n and ar ound t he t i me i t was
3 publ i shed on Mr s. Tai t z' s websi t e?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And how di d you t ake t hat t o mean wi t h r egar d
6 t o pot ent i al donor s at t he t i me, i f at al l ?
7 MR. KRESS: Obj ect i on.
8 THE WI TNESS: Donat i ons f r omhi mat l east woul d
9 dr y up and ot her si mi l ar comment s I hear d f r omot her s
10 wer e t he same basi c sent i ment s.
11 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
12 Q Okay. Mr s. Tai t z' s websi t e, how wi del y r ead i s
13 i t based on your exper i ence and el i gi bi l i t y i ssues?
14 MR. KRESS: Obj ect i on. For m.
15 THE WI TNESS: Most peopl e who ar e i nvol ved i n
16 t he el i gi bi l i t y movement r ead i t , and opponent s r ead i t .
17 I t ' s been quot ed ext ensi vel y by bot h f r i ends and
18 enemi es. So, you know, i t - - t housands and t housands of
19 peopl e r ead t hat .
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q Can you expl ai n f or us t he t ypes of i ndi vi dual s
22 t hat ar e i nt er est ed i n el i gi bi l i t y and r el at ed i ssues
23 based on your exper i ence deal i ng wi t h t hese i ssues?
24 A Wel l , t he cor e gr oup woul d be t he pat r i ot
25 conser vat i ve communi t y, who bel i eve t hat Obama doesn' t
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1 have any l egal r i ght t o be pr esent by vi r t ue of t he f act
2 t hat hi s f at her was a f or ei gner , whi ch, accor di ng t o
3 l egal pr ecedent s and document s of t he f ounder s, say
4 shoul d be excl uded f r omt he pr esi dency. And i n Ar t i cl e
5 I I , sect i on 1, cl ause 5 of t he Const i t ut i on was wr i t t en
6 wi t h t hat i n mi nd, but di d not speci f i cal l y cal l out
7 t hose r equi r ement s, whi ch can onl y be got t en by l ooki ng
8 at l egal pr ecedent s and f ounder s' document s. So,
9 t hose - -
10 MR. KRESS: I al so woul d obj ect .
12 MR. KRESS: Pl ease cont i nue. I di dn' t mean t o
13 i nt er r upt you.
15 MR. KRESS: But I do want t o not e an obj ect i on.
16 MR. KLAYMAN: That ' s f i ne.
17 MR. KRESS: I obj ect t o t he ext ent any of t hi s
18 i s exper t t est i mony because he has not been i dent i f i ed
19 as an exper t .
20 MR. KLAYMAN: I asked hi mbased on hi s
21 exper i ence.
22 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
23 Q Mr . Mi l l er , wi t h r egar d t o t he st at ement s - -
24 and I ' l l t ur n your at t ent i on agai n t o Exhi bi t 14, page
25 2. Can you r ead t he par agr aph begi nni ng: " Ms. Ruf f l ey
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1 act ual l y advi sed me t hat Lar r y Kl ayman" ?
2 A Okay. " Ms. Ruf f l ey act ual l y advi sed me t hat
3 Lar r y Kl ayman i s not l i censed i n Cal i f or ni a.
4 She t ol d me he no l onger wor ks at t he J udi ci al
5 Wat ch and t hat donor s shoul d know about
6 l i t i gat i on i n Ohi o, wher e he was convi ct ed j ust
7 r ecent l y of not payi ng a l ar ge amount i n chi l d
8 suppor t . She pr ovi ded a l ot of ot her
9 i nf or mat i on. I wi l l publ i sh onl y what i s
10 publ i c r ecor d. I amnot publ i shi ng anyt hi ng
11 t hat i s not i n t he publ i c r ecor d. "
12 Q Now, t he phr ase, uhm, " Donor s shoul d know about
13 l i t i gat i on i n Ohi o, wher e he was convi ct ed j ust r ecent l y
14 of not payi ng l ar ge amount i n chi l d suppor t , " di d you
15 t ake t hat t o mean at t he t i me t hat Ms. Ruf f l ey was
16 r ef er r i ng t o gi ve t hat donor s suppor t i ng Lar r y Kl ayman' s
17 el i gi bi l i t y l awsui t s - -
19 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
20 Q - - and ot her l egal mat t er s?
23 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
24 Q The st at ement t hat " donor s shoul d know about
25 l i t i gat i on i n Ohi o wher e he was convi ct ed j ust r ecent l y
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1 of not payi ng l ar ge amount i n chi l d suppor t " - -
2 A Ri ght .
3 Q - - di d you t ake t hat t o mean when you r ead i t
4 - - di d you t ake t hat t o mean when you r ead i t t hat
5 Ms. Ruf f l ey was t el l i ng Or l y Tai t z t o gi ve t hi s t o Lar r y
6 Kl ayman' s donor s f or el i gi bi l i t y i n ot her l egal mat t er s?
7 MR. KRESS: Obj ect i on. For m. Specul at i on.
8 You can answer .
9 THE WI TNESS: I t woul d seemt o me t hat she' s
10 caut i oni ng donor s t o not donat e t o someone who has been
11 convi ct ed of a cr i me, as she says. But t hat ' s - - t hat ' s
12 t he r eadi ng I got f r omi t anyway and ot her peopl e t hat I
13 spoke t o or cor r esponded wi t h.
14 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
15 Q Now, of al l t he t hi ngs t hat ar e sai d i n t he
16 cont ext of t hi s Exhi bi t 14, whi ch do you consi der t o be
17 t he most damni ng t hat Ms. Ruf f l ey sai d about Lar r y
18 Kl ayman?
20 THE WI TNESS: Wel l , t he convi ct i on. The
21 convi ct i on i s t he wor st t hi ng because my under st andi ng,
22 i f t he l awyer i s convi ct ed, he' s not a l awyer anymor e,
23 he get di sbar r ed. So, t hat woul d be f ul l st op on our
24 pr ogr ami f t hat was t r ue. And i f peopl e per cei ved i t t o
25 be t r ue, even i f i t was a l i e, i t woul d st i l l dr y up our
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1 donat i ons, whi ch woul d st i l l st op t he case. So my
2 quest i on i s, i s she t r yi ng t o st op t hi s case? Or i s she
3 doi ng t hi s as a publ i c ser vi ce so donor s won' t wast e
4 t hei r money on a f el on? You t el l me.
5 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
6 Q Now, wi t h r egar d t o t he $11, 000 t hat you cl ai m
7 or you t est i f i ed wer e pai d t o Lar r y Kl ayman by your
8 gr oup of i ndi vi dual s, who wer e r ai si ng money - - back up.
9 You do r emember t est i f yi ng t hat $11, 000 wer e
10 pai d on t op of t he i ni t i al payment af t er t he def amat or y
11 st at ement , al l eged def amat or y st at ement was made,
12 cor r ect ?
13 A Yes.
14 MR. KRESS: I t hi nk he sai d 12.
15 THE WI TNESS: Wel l , t he t ot al came t o 21
16 somet hi ng.
17 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
18 Q Okay. Now, how do you expl ai n, i f at al l , t hat
19 you got $11, 000 af t er t he def amat or y st at ement ?
20 A Wel l , we had r amped up - -
21 Q Af t er t he al l eged def amat or y st at ement ?
23 THE WI TNESS: Okay t o answer ?
24 MR. KRESS: Yes.
25 THE WI TNESS: Oh. Okay. I get caught i n t he
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1 cr ossf i r e bet ween you guys. We wer e r ampi ng up a
2 nat i onal campai gn. We expect ed si x f i gur es. So, 11, 000
3 i s chi cken f eed compar ed t o what we t hought we coul d
4 r ai se, i n what was t he hi ghest vi si bi l i t y case, by t he
5 hi ghest vi si bi l i t y, most f amous l awyer t hat was ever
6 br ought i nt o t he el i gi bi l i t y movement . And we f el l f l at
7 on our f aces. Thank you. 11, 000.
8 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
9 Q Now, based on your under st andi ng of an
10 i ndi ct ment havi ng been i ssued wi t h r egar d t o Lar r y
11 Kl ayman and chi l d suppor t , was i t your under st andi ng,
12 when you l ear ned of t hat , t hat an i ndi ct ment was
13 equi val ent of bei ng convi ct ed?
14 A Wel l , I know t he di f f er ence - -
16 THE WI TNESS: - - but a l ot of peopl e per cei ve
17 an i ndi ct ment i s t ant amount t o convi ct i on; t hat t he
18 st at e i s al ways r i ght , you know. So, an i ndi ct ment i s
19 ver y, ver y damni ng, l et ' s f ace i t , but a convi ct i on,
20 t hat ' s - - t hat ' s endi ng. That ' s much wor se. Ever yone
21 knows t hat a convi ct i on means t hat you ar e a f el on at
22 t hat poi nt . You ar e l egal l y a f el on. So t hat ' s a
23 pr et t y bi g deal .
24 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
25 Q I n t hi s count r y, you ar e i nnocent unt i l pr oven
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1 gui l t y?
3 THE WI TNESS: That ' s what t he l aw says.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: I have no f ur t her quest i ons.
5 MR. KRESS: I have j ust a f ew.
6
7
8
9 REDI RECT EXAMI NATI ON
10
11 BY MR. KRESS:
12 Q You - - you knew t hat Lar r y Kl ayman was not
13 di sbar r ed, cor r ect ?
14 A Cor r ect .
15 Q And you knew t hat he was l i censed i n Fl or i da,
16 cor r ect ?
17 A Cor r ect .
18 Q You pr obabl y di dn' t know t hi s, but you ar e
19 assumi ng t hat t he - - t he chi l d suppor t char ge was a
20 f el ony, cor r ect ?
21 A I t hought i ni t i al l y, i t was ci vi l . I di dn' t
22 know i t was a f el ony unt i l af t er war d.
23 Q But you j ust - - i n your t est i mony, you wer e
24 j ust r ef er r i ng t o a f el ony, cor r ect ?
25 A Wel l , yes. I know t hat now. I di dn' t know
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1 t hat back t hen, as I t ol d you ear l i er .
2 Q Wel l , woul d you be sur pr i sed t o know t hat t he
3 j udge j ust r ul ed t hat i t wasn' t a f el ony?
4 MR. KLAYMAN: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect t o t hat
5 because, i n f act - - and we ar e goi ng t o be movi ng t o
6 cor r ect t he summar y j udgment - - i t was a f el ony because
7 of t he nonpayment of mor e t han 26 weeks. Ther e was an
8 er r or i n t hat j udgment . So I don' t want you t o put
9 wor ds i n hi s mout h.
10 MR. KRESS: I ' mnot put t i ng wor d i n hi s mout h.
11 I t ' s wor ds i n my mout h.
12 MR. KLAYMAN: And t hat ' s a publ i c r ecor d t he
13 cour t can t ake j udi ci al not i ce of , t o cor r ect t he
14 summar y j udgment .
15 BY MR. KRESS:
16 Q What ever i t i s, you ar e assumi ng i t was a
17 f el ony, cor r ect ?
18 A Now I am.
19 Q Okay. At t he t i me, di d you assume i t was a
20 f el ony?
21 A No. At t he t i me, I t hought what was act ual l y
22 happeni ng was - - was ci vi l . Unt i l I saw t hi s t hi ng f r om
23 Ruf f l ey, I had no cl ue t her e was a f el ony i nvol ved i n
24 t hi s t hi ng.
25 Q At t he t i me, you t hought i t was a f el ony r at her
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1 t han a mi sdemeanor , cor r ect ?
2 A At what t i me? Oh, on Febr uar y 23r d?
3 Q Yes.
4 A Al l I knew i s what I saw i n Or l y Tai t z' s bl og,
5 whi ch I of t en t ake wi t h a gr ai n of sal t , but a l ot of
6 peopl e t ake as gospel .
7 Q Ar e you awar e t hat Lar r y Kl ayman agr eed t o pay
8 an amount of chi l d suppor t t o - - t o set t l e t he cr i mi nal
9 mat t er i n Apr i l of 2012?
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. I t ' s f act s not
11 t est i f i ed t o. Agai n - -
12 MR. KRESS: Pl ease j ust l et hi manswer . He can
13 answer .
14 MR. KLAYMAN: No, because i t ' s i mpr oper . You
15 di dn' t l ay a f oundat i on, and i t hasn' t been t est i f i ed
16 t o. You ar e put t i ng - - you ar e put t i ng i nf or mat i on i n
17 f r ont of hi m, whi ch i s not - -
18 MR. KRESS: Thi s i s a di scover y - -
19 MR. KLAYMAN: - - whi ch has not been devel oped.
20 MR. KRESS: Thi s i s a di scover y deposi t i on.
21 MR. KLAYMAN: I t ' s an i mpr oper quest i on. I
22 obj ect on t he basi s of i mpr oper quest i on.
23 MR. KRESS: He can answer .
24 MR. KLAYMAN: Thi s i s done i nt ent i onal l y. I t ' s
25 i mpr oper .
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1 MR. KRESS: I t ' s not i mpr oper . I t ' s not
2 i nt ent i onal . I t ' s i nt ent i onal i n aski ng a quest i on and
3 t r yi ng t o concl ude t he deposi t i on.
4 BY MR. KRESS:
5 Q Wer e you awar e t hat Lar r y Kl ayman' s i ndi ct ment
6 was not di smi ssed unt i l Apr i l of 2012?
7 A I don' t know t he exact dat e.
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Same obj ect i on.
9 BY MR. KRESS:
10 Q Okay. Wer e you awar e t hat Mr . Kl ayman agr eed
11 t o pay chi l d suppor t - - pay back chi l d suppor t r el at ed
12 t o t he di smi ssal of t he i ndi ct ment ?
13 A I know he had t o pay somet hi ng. I don' t know
14 how much i t was or whet her i t was br ought cur r ent and
15 whet her t he amount s wer e i n di sput e. I don' t know
16 anyt hi ng about t hat .
17 Q Okay. I s t her e any ot her t est i mony you pl an t o
18 gi ve at t r i al t hat you haven' t al r eady t ol d us about ?
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Obj ect i on. That ' s obj ect i onabl e
20 t est i mony. He doesn' t know what he' s goi ng t o be asked.
21 MR. KRESS: Wel l , he can t el l me.
22 MR. KLAYMAN: I t ' s an obj ect i onabl e quest i on.
23 Tot al l y obj ect i onabl e.
24 MR. KRESS: You can answer . He can answer .
25 THE WI TNESS: I don' t i nt end t o do any
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1 sur pr i ses based on j ust answer i ng quest i ons as t hey come
2 up. I don' t have any ambushes pl anned or anyt hi ng l i ke
3 t hat . Do you?
4 MR. KRESS: Not yet . I do not . I do not . I ' m
5 t r yi ng t o concl ude t hi s. I want t o make sur e we' ve
6 cover ed ever yt hi ng wi t h you, and I want t o make sur e we
7 - - we - - we know what your t est i mony i s goi ng t o be.
8 That ' s t he pur pose of t he quest i on.
9 Uhm, wi t h t hat , I have no ot her quest i ons. I
10 wi l l - - I wi l l r ai se any i ssues r el at ed t o t hi s
11 deposi t i on wi t h J udge Al t onaga, but I t hi nk i t wi l l be
12 unr easonabl e t o expect t he magi st r at e t o gat her al l t hi s
13 i nf or mat i on and i ssue any r ul i ngs on t he deposi t i on i n a
14 f ew mi nut es.
15 MR. KLAYMAN: The deposi t i on i s cl osed, but
16 j ust l et t he r ecor d r ef l ect you had your oppor t uni t y t o
17 have a hear i ng wi t h t he magi st r at e. And he sai d he was
18 avai l abl e at 2: 30. And wi t h r egar d t o t he
19 at t or ney- cl i ent i ssues, your cl i ent ' s cl ai med at t or ney
20 cl i ent on t hei r own wi t hout your even maki ng t he
21 obj ect i ons, and he cer t ai nl y i s ent i t l ed t o consul t wi t h
22 hi s counsel wi t h r egar d t o t hi s deposi t i on si nce, as I
23 st i pul at ed and as he t est i f i ed t o, he' s bei ng
24 r epr esent ed by me at t hi s deposi t i on. So, I don' t
25 under st and what t he i ssue i s i n t hat r egar d, but you ar e
243
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1 f r ee t o do what you want . Deposi t i on i s cl osed.
4 - - o0o- -
5 ( Deposi t i on pr oceedi ngs wer e
6 concl uded at 10: 48 a. m. )
7 - - ooOoo- -
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1 STATE OF CALI FORNI A )
) ss.
2 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES )
3
4
5 I , GEORGE MI LLER, her eby cer t i f y under penal t y
6 of per j ur y under t he l aws of t he St at e of Cal i f or ni a
7 t hat t he f or egoi ng i s t r ue and cor r ect .
8 Execut ed t hi s _____ day of __________________,
9 20___, at _______________________, Cal i f or ni a.
10
11
12 _____________________________
13 GEORGE MI LLER
14
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1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
2 I , THE UNDERSI GNED, A CERTI FI ED SHORTHAND
3 REPORTER OF THE STATE OF CALI FORNI A, DO HEREBY CERTI FY:
4 THAT THE FOREGOI NG PROCEEDI NGS WERE TAKEN
5 BEFORE ME AT THE TI ME AND PLACE HEREI N SET FORTH; THAT
6 ANY WI TNESSES I N THE FOREGOI NG PROCEEDI NGS, PRI OR TO
7 TESTI FYI NG, WERE DULY SWORN; THAT A RECORD OF THE
8 PROCEEDI NGS WAS MADE BY ME USI NG MACHI NE SHORTHAND,
9 WHI CH WAS THEREAFTER TRANSCRI BED UNDER MY DI RECTI ON;
10 THAT THE FOREGOI NG TRANSCRI PT I S A TRUE RECORD OF THE
11 TESTI MONY GI VEN.
12 FURTHER, THAT I F THE FOREGOI NG PERTAI NS TO THE
13 ORI GI NAL TRANSCRI PT OF A DEPOSI TI ON I N A FEDERAL CASE,
14 BEFORE COMPLETI ON OF THE PROCEEDI NGS, REVI EWOF THE
15 TRANSCRI PT [ ] WAS [ ] WAS NOT REQUI RED.
16 I FURTHER CERTI FY I AM NEI THER FI NANCI ALLY
17 I NTERESTED I N THE ACTI ON NOR A RELATI VE OR EMPLOYEE OF
18 ANY ATTORNEY OR PARTY TO THI S ACTI ON.
19 I N WI TNESS WHEREOF, I HAVE THI S DATE SUBSCRI BED MY
20 NAME.
21 DATED: _______________
22
23 __________________________________
24 ERI KA A. SJ OQUI ST, CSR, RPR, CRR
CSR NO. 12350
25
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D
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3:1
damage
51:25
damaged
78:4,5,25
damaging
79:17109:9
damning
132:17134:19
data
109:23110:3
date
43:2346:2573:9
115:4,16138:7
142:19
dated
25:369:12102:21
142:21
dates
120:8
day
113:18141:8
days
104:21
DC
21:153:22
deadbeat
70:5
deal
54:7134:23
dealing
129:23
December
20:13,16,1921:2,8,13
27:25114:12
deceptive
54:11
decision
62:9,1963:1164:22
75:12,19,2395:23
decisions
63:6
dedication
56:5
deeper
109:12
defamatory
133:10,11,19,21
defendant
1:82:17107:18,19,20
defendant's
41:2
definitely
50:563:167:24
definition
121:4
delegate
11:15
deluged
109:18
delusions
24:8
delve
109:6
demeanor
12:9
denoted
118:24
deny
43:21
depends
26:445:3
DEPONENT
3:2
depose
43:748:22,25
deposed
14:1070:19
deposition
1:122:15:6,2012:18
12:19,2013:2,3,9,25
14:2116:2417:14
37:1151:1778:13
84:2386:18,2288:8
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92:19,24107:10
113:22137:20138:3
139:11,13,15,22,24
140:1,5142:13
described
102:13
DESCRIPTION
3:8
descriptions
72:22
desire
12:10
destroyed
52:153:9
detail
21:427:24
detailed
122:5123:1
details
21:2469:18
determine
14:1258:14
detrimental
10:11
developed
22:7137:19
difference
118:14128:18134:14
different
11:1622:1624:5,11
25:1756:2578:10
99:19
difficult
5:24
digital
39:1
diligence
55:2356:1357:3
diminished
125:13
DINA
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2:15
direct
5:1265:17
directing
12:15
DIRECTION
142:9
directly
116:16,21
disagreement
102:7
disaster
64:8
disbarred
132:23135:13
disbursements
35:6
discovery
91:10,2492:7137:18
137:20
discuss
92:25
discussed
17:739:243:2298:16
discussion
89:1
dismiss
41:3
dismissal
138:12
dismissed
138:6
dispute
138:15
distort
42:6
distorted
42:7
distorting
35:24
distortion
82:14
DISTRICT
1:1,2
Division
3:9,13,16
divorce
64:2376:5
DKRESS@SCHW...
2:21
docket
92:5
doctrines
44:8
document
25:126:1829:834:15
34:15,1635:16,24,24
35:2537:1738:1
39:1847:2460:9
70:1082:13,14,15
83:4,14,2196:697:1
102:24,24105:14
106:20,20108:3,19
110:21119:1128:14
documents
34:1939:6,765:18
77:14,16,2478:12,16
83:2485:1286:23
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doing
5:2135:1749:8,12
51:10,1561:14,15
64:470:577:978:13
100:10102:6,9133:3
dollars
62:465:6115:15
117:19118:20
120:12
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27:18
domestic
3:14,1760:2195:24
102:20
donate
115:15132:10
donating
78:1789:25
donation
62:15
donations
78:9,10114:20115:11
115:25116:2120:24
121:1,5129:8133:1
donor
77:17,1799:8108:22
110:24111:2
donors
34:1052:1564:767:1
67:14,2468:969:15
69:1570:2271:3
72:875:1278:16
129:6131:5,12,16,24
132:6,10133:3
double-check
93:12
Doug
5:1783:2291:14,19
92:1893:6
DOUGLAS
2:19
dozens
23:22
drabs
40:6
drag
27:10
dribs
40:6
dried
64:8
drifted
9:17
dry
129:9132:25
DR07
3:14,17,19
due
55:2356:3,1357:2
DULY
5:9142:7
dunning
38:9
E
E
1:43:1,7142:1
earlier
39:2488:13,1699:25
104:21136:1
early
114:21115:25120:24
121:2,4,6
easily
54:9
economic
10:11
education
9:14
effect
10:1168:15,15,21
78:3,381:10120:24
efficiently
113:21
effort
18:1322:324:11
28:2030:134:10
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26:644:2245:849:23
61:11,2465:2090:1
eight
42:20
either
15:628:434:791:23
115:8121:23
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10:1912:8
election
10:15,18123:11
elective
12:10
elicit
84:14
eligibility
124:18125:2,9126:10
129:13,16,22131:17
132:6134:6
Elliot
3:20
emergency
107:8,14
employee
53:4142:17
encourage
243
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123:3125:6
encouraged
125:8
encouraging
124:8
endeavors
86:14
ended
11:19
ends
56:7
enemies
109:19129:18
engaged
32:173:10
engaging
11:9
engineer
7:109:15
enrichment
44:9
enter
25:19
entered
92:6
entire
112:12
entitled
47:18105:11139:21
entrepreneur
27:2
Entry
3:15,18
equivalent
134:13
ERIKA
1:212:3142:24
error
113:12136:8
especially
54:1279:13
ESQ
2:10
Esquire
4:12,16
essence
28:14
established
28:9
estate
10:13
esteemed
123:21
estoppel
44:8,19
estranged
76:6
et
3:2564:11
eternal
36:6
ethical
34:2146:17,1847:25
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evenly
33:7
events
18:653:6126:9
everybody
50:24
evidence
25:10,2326:1844:6
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exact
28:1236:2043:23
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138:7
exactly
44:1957:9,1063:2
76:23115:8,21
EXAMINATION
3:25:12135:9
EXAMINED
5:10
example
27:17122:11
exceeded
39:3
excited
128:22
excluded
130:4
exclusively
9:24
excuse
19:1021:729:14
50:2265:1067:18
84:2087:588:22
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124:24130:11
131:22
Executed
141:8
exhibit
3:9,12,13,16,19,21,24
4:1,2,4,6,7,10,12,16
24:20,2226:1533:11
34:6,837:11,14,16
38:10,16,17,2239:9
39:9,13,1340:11,14
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96:20,22,2597:5
102:14,16,19104:2,4
110:7,12116:5120:4
120:4,12128:7
130:24132:16
exhibits
5:624:1737:857:21
95:5
expect
139:12
expected
134:2
expense
36:15
expenses
35:636:2137:2,4
117:16
expensive
26:11
experience
7:6108:22129:13,23
130:21
experienced
61:18
expert
54:12130:18,19
explain
52:10129:21133:18
explained
55:15
explanation
99:17,18
extensively
20:2222:18129:17
extent
30:1656:6,1558:16
76:12130:17
extremely
18:7
ex-wife
65:2
eye
11:4
e-mail
3:21,244:222:525:3
41:10,11,14,1743:17
44:1279:3104:20
114:14116:8118:21
e-mails
40:1743:2244:7
65:2478:2
F
F
142:1
face
20:14,14134:19
faces
134:7
face-to-face
28:9
Facilitative
7:18
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Facilitator
8:6,7,8,19
fact
54:859:1,2064:10,22
67:2469:376:13
78:11105:17118:18
130:1136:5
factor
63:1,3
factors
62:1463:6,11,18,21
64:5
facts
25:9,2226:1845:12
45:1949:1850:1
54:556:2259:3
61:2063:1467:4
74:1376:1377:1
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103:6,23118:4
122:21137:10
Failed
4:5
failure
58:2066:11,2167:14
68:897:998:1
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6:14112:9116:15
117:1,25
faith
113:23
false
53:1958:15
familiar
24:2537:1743:17
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famous
20:20134:5
far
14:1425:1581:13
124:25
fashion
13:13
fast
111:20
father
130:2
favor
91:6
February
25:441:1146:2447:1
55:858:2360:25
69:1284:497:7
102:21103:3,11
104:15114:1,7,8,15
114:17115:2,4,6,17
115:21116:3,3117:3
117:11121:7128:11
137:2
FEDERAL
142:13
fee
17:12
feed
134:3
feedback
67:23
feel
13:462:1664:2
feels
36:24112:24,25
fees
36:21
fell
134:6
felon
133:4134:21,22
felony
135:20,22,24136:3,6
136:17,20,23,25
felt
11:2038:12
field
7:11
fight
113:17
figure
24:364:15
figures
134:2
file
22:1426:234:25
filed
5:1992:5105:25
106:14121:9122:25
123:4,6,9,13,14,25
finally
36:1464:16123:10
finance
9:1126:12
financial
17:1727:20
FINANCIALLY
142:16
find
57:273:8109:7114:7
118:17
finding
17:674:575:576:4
80:19114:6
findings
98:15,2399:3,9
fine
19:231:332:548:23
77:1189:15,1596:15
119:15128:21
130:16
fingers
50:20
finished
53:1280:3
fire
53:1466:1
firm
3:234:1,354:13
firms
7:129:9
first
5:916:1220:12,13
22:734:640:18
42:10,1047:2472:4
75:2585:1109:14
110:15111:13,14
114:11124:9,14,21
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five
90:15102:4
flat
126:11134:6
Florida
1:22:12,204:99:3,4,5
19:9,1124:629:4
33:1034:2536:18
37:2338:3,2539:8
39:1540:149:23
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65:2067:1568:10
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105:25106:15,17
109:13114:12
123:13,14124:1,11
124:15,17,22,25
135:15
focus
38:6
focused
9:24
folks
24:12
follow
5:2555:588:2
followed
28:6
followers
28:13
following
21:2027:18
FOLLOWS
5:10
foregoing
141:7142:4,6,10,12
foreigner
130:2
forget
107:23
form
29:1244:671:15
129:14131:18,21
132:7,19133:22
134:15135:2
formal
44:2,4
243
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formed
23:25
forth
38:1,2165:24142:5
forward
21:25
found
10:2027:256:1672:5
72:2373:2,4,695:24
97:8,25109:8
foundation
49:461:13,1986:17
86:1797:1298:3
103:7,23137:15
founded
54:1464:1179:15
founder
20:21
founders
130:3,8
four
90:14112:25
frankly
50:7
free
140:1
FRIDAY
1:132:25:2
friend
23:5,628:7
friends
129:17
front
24:18115:11116:10
137:17
fuel
30:1
full
36:1441:360:2
132:23
fully
81:11
fund
4:1718:13104:19
105:12
fundraising
4:1418:1224:126:6
29:25
funds
22:1726:1329:25
44:16,17,2145:6
62:5,1064:9
further
48:2549:159:21
109:7135:4142:12
142:16
F5
3:10
G
gal
69:20
GARDENS
2:20
gather
139:12
gathered
58:13
general
64:879:389:9101:21
101:22102:1
generally
101:10
gentleman
19:3,490:18
George
1:122:13:3,22,244:3
5:810:512:1214:23
15:316:1527:13,15
29:9,1631:333:3
34:1637:11,2438:5
40:19,2145:1346:5
47:1648:751:23
59:1567:1771:8,9
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88:1789:2099:13
111:1,13141:5,13
getting
14:1586:1106:23
114:21120:21
give
6:2012:1331:15
32:2433:242:4
47:14,2393:2294:1
101:15,17116:9
131:16132:5138:18
given
46:865:572:678:21
116:17127:11
142:11
giving
50:565:984:15
go
13:2218:1919:13
24:9,17,2027:23
28:1338:5,1741:14
42:14,15,17,1843:11
47:2,1653:2155:6
59:2062:1469:3
71:18,1878:1,1
80:1782:2283:5
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116:11119:21
125:23128:24
goes
18:535:4123:8
going
5:2011:314:14,17,18
16:2518:8,20,20
24:432:2038:12
41:2347:15,1951:2
55:561:962:20
65:19,2473:1781:16
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87:7,1488:290:16
91:4107:4114:24
116:9118:19122:6
125:16127:14,19
128:14136:4,5
138:20139:7
good
4:105:15,1610:20
11:2023:1224:12
34:253:1458:2,6,9
75:16113:22
Goode
121:13,16,16,17
goods
78:4,5,25
gospel
137:6
gotten
130:7
government
9:1057:11
grain
137:5
grandeur
24:9
great
20:2458:1
grievance
69:6,13
ground
6:1
group
7:198:7,8,1921:22
22:1,423:15,1728:5
29:5,7,23,2434:7
36:1737:7,2339:15
39:2545:555:19
66:4,997:1998:14
98:19102:11117:13
118:2129:24133:8
groups
23:14
guess
81:182:17119:11
guilty
59:6135:1
guy
10:2056:6
guys
66:1119:9134:1
G-O-O-D-E
121:17
H
H
3:7
hac
53:2154:10
Hamilton
7:12
243
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hammer
27:19
hammered
21:24
Hampshire
22:6,2323:1
handle
119:8
happen
18:1076:879:18
happened
18:6,1228:364:13
70:1872:6,2373:1
79:397:2199:19
115:12
happening
22:11136:22
happy
93:16
hard
39:178:6
Hartman
64:2265:4
head
122:14
heading
106:7
hear
6:363:2470:1575:9
88:991:1899:23
101:2117:8127:3
128:5
heard
55:1467:2375:25
99:16129:9
hearing
36:12,1341:2,443:22
107:8,14120:18
123:10139:17
hearings
60:21
heartless
65:9
heart-to-heart
50:7
heavy
50:7
held
60:2176:17102:6
Hello
107:2119:5
help
18:1121:626:728:17
56:8
helped
128:23
helping
89:4127:5
Hey
66:20
Hi
91:14
high
53:556:979:16
higher
76:17
highest
134:4,5
Hills
27:2128:10
hire
23:1626:228:21
hired
29:3,355:1957:25
98:19102:10,11
103:4
hiring
27:2328:472:24
hold
37:2445:1346:548:7
71:8,8,892:15
101:17106:22
holding
93:13
honestly
115:14
Hopefully
48:13
hotel
20:5
hour
35:7,8117:16
hourly
35:6
hours
112:22
house
23:10,1165:5
huge
10:11
huh-uh
6:6
hundred
117:19
hundreds
63:3
hurt
53:964:9
I
icing
81:1
idea
18:9122:20
identical
8:2083:1185:15,20
identified
24:2237:1440:14
43:1447:848:19
82:2495:8,2096:22
102:16104:4130:18
identify
27:9,10,13,15
identifying
96:2
II
18:13130:5
illegal
64:2576:8
image
39:1
immediately
21:15
impact
66:2568:2,969:9
70:2071:2,19,21,22
72:4,875:1286:25
101:6
impacted
67:14,2480:21
important
5:229:23
impose
102:8
impossible
78:8
impression
19:1665:9
improper
26:23,2528:2530:9
39:1643:948:10
49:3,12,1477:4
84:1497:14111:12
137:14,21,22,25
138:1
improperly
73:3
inadmissible
57:17
inappropriate
48:1773:20
Inaudible
31:10
includes
51:18,18
Including
125:10
incorrect
101:18
indefinite
55:274:2099:12
101:9
independently
34:7
indicated
21:17115:24120:23
indicating
106:16
indicted
58:1959:160:1861:6
66:11,11,15,20,22
113:13
indictment
3:1066:2567:1368:2
243
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68:8,2280:2,595:14
134:10,12,17,18
138:5,12
individually
67:10121:24
individuals
23:18129:21133:8
information
8:169:946:852:23
53:757:258:1461:2
72:676:2186:1,12
90:292:3106:17
108:8109:15,18,21
110:1115:18131:9
137:16139:13
informed
81:11,12
inhibit
120:21
inhibited
50:562:1363:19
initial
38:7,8133:10
initially
10:2524:7123:18
128:22135:21
innocent
59:5134:25
instance
14:1322:2257:14
66:19
instruct
10:514:1915:1716:3
87:14,2290:19
instructed
15:2016:1719:20
20:2,983:1787:17
87:2490:24
instructing
47:22
instruction
4:2088:2
intend
19:8,11138:25
intended
26:7
intensionally
61:15
intent
99:21
intention
19:13
intentional
138:2,2
intentionally
49:9,12137:24
interact
86:13
interactions
66:9
interest
21:1654:13
interested
122:12129:22142:17
interesting
64:20
interests
13:636:7
interfering
48:24
internet
58:2362:2163:18
76:11
interrupt
43:4130:13
interrupted
48:14,16
interruption
97:20
intervene
16:22
introduced
125:1
invades
13:17,18
invasive
30:7
investigate
11:7
investigated
57:1175:25
investigating
72:5
investments
10:12
invoices
38:2439:8
involve
22:25
involved
7:1911:11,1220:22
22:2,12,15,2223:23
24:227:531:14
55:11121:13123:17
124:2,21,22125:7,11
129:15136:23
involvement
121:11124:10,14
irrelevant
101:9,10109:1,3
127:6
issuance
103:20
issue
35:937:6,2255:20
80:2581:483:22
91:2592:22139:13
139:25
issued
74:24103:5,10134:10
issues
129:13,22,23139:10
139:19
itemization
119:1
itemize
120:7
itemized
118:25
J
J
2:193:22
jail
69:24
JAMES
2:15
Jamestown
7:2
January
123:14
job
24:1277:1078:8
JOG
2:20
joined
10:25
joke
128:20
Journal
12:5
judge
48:2157:1664:24
90:2391:22,23,25
92:6,11,16,20,20
93:1595:24102:8,8
107:7119:7,10,18
122:14136:3139:11
judgment
3:15,18136:6,8,14
judicial
1:75:1852:1353:4
54:14,1976:16,24
94:5,6126:4,8,13
131:4136:13
July
74:25
justice
20:23
justified
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succeed
62:1664:3
sue
18:8
sued
72:15,21
suggested
65:19
suggesting
73:1
suggestion
119:11
suit
4:1434:25
SUITE
2:2,12,20
sum
68:20
summary
136:6,14
support
8:1611:946:252:17
52:2255:12,14,20
56:258:2061:5
64:2166:12,21,23
67:1468:979:7
97:1098:1,2599:15
120:20131:8,14
132:1134:11135:19
137:8138:11,11
supported
121:14
supporting
122:4131:16
supposed
53:2079:21109:2
supposedly
54:12
Supreme
26:10122:14
sure
14:1827:1033:638:6
39:5,1153:2557:9
63:365:2567:12,12
68:670:475:191:18
93:2,3,17,2494:3
109:25111:9116:13
118:22,24119:15
120:13139:5,6
surprised
136:2
surprises
139:1
SWORN
5:9142:7
systems
8:12,16
T
T
3:7142:1,1
Taitz
4:12,1645:9,2564:16
70:8,1678:1785:8
86:1,12104:13,23
108:17132:5
Taitz's
46:2352:753:658:18
61:165:2166:10
67:2569:1177:20
86:24104:20129:3
129:12137:4
take
5:20,226:4,1210:25
21:226:5,1034:16
41:142:243:11
82:1890:16,2293:16
95:4,14111:13116:6
125:18,20127:14
129:5131:15132:3,4
136:13137:5,6
TAKEN
2:1142:4
talk
15:1617:321:328:8
30:1931:433:23
34:550:790:25
91:25113:2
talked
23:13,1328:898:18
talking
31:11,1232:1350:22
51:20
tantamount
134:17
tea
10:24,2511:5
teleconference
21:23
telephone
22:5
tell
6:97:5,610:321:13
44:1945:1146:10
61:2263:165:1
66:1388:6108:12
118:6133:4138:21
telling
83:19132:5
tenor
79:3
tentative
21:20
tentatively
28:15
term
100:21101:6102:5,12
terms
8:1314:523:1234:8
36:4100:20117:18
terrible
64:13
testified
5:1030:22,2333:17
39:2445:1949:18
50:256:2165:13
67:568:474:1477:2
97:12103:7,17,23
118:5,5133:7137:11
243
Page 25
137:15139:23
testifies
123:21
testify
17:2518:11,1648:21
63:1584:1591:7
104:24108:9123:20
testifying
16:1343:697:13
133:9142:7
testimony
13:1317:1428:23
75:18103:7130:18
135:23138:17,20
139:7142:11
text
107:25112:5
Thank
19:624:1332:533:19
41:7,1344:2451:1
51:2252:562:6
68:1484:2486:19
89:2393:1494:13,16
98:10104:1107:5,16
107:20112:1113:10
114:10119:20
127:12134:7140:3
Thanks
93:1394:11
thing
27:1,1129:841:23,25
47:21,2550:953:5
61:564:2275:17
76:8,885:3,4110:25
111:23127:10
132:21136:22,24
things
24:355:2456:11,16
57:2062:1768:24
75:978:1179:9,11
79:11,12,13,2480:8
80:2086:1391:9
99:16132:15
think
8:116:2128:1130:24
37:441:2442:19
50:2162:271:272:8
76:1690:2591:1
92:10,1193:15100:7
100:21110:5,5
115:11,16118:22
119:13120:5,16
122:11123:7,24
125:21126:14
133:14139:11
thinking
123:15
third
60:3
thoroughly
11:7
thought
9:2355:1858:24
59:1263:2278:12
89:3134:3135:21
136:21,25
thoughts
43:5
thousand
62:2,463:8115:15
117:19118:20
thousands
63:4129:18,18
thousand-dollar
120:3
three
90:14104:21112:22
112:24
threshold
117:17
throw
33:25
time
5:22,239:21,2211:1
11:2218:6,8,10,16
22:2,828:231:11
38:11,1240:441:7
48:1450:17,21,24,24
51:8,13,18,1955:3
55:15,2556:4,5
58:2259:961:19
69:1774:21,21,22
75:777:1281:5,19
85:188:2089:595:4
99:12101:9102:10
111:13,17114:20,20
115:14116:6123:9
129:2,6131:15
136:19,21,25137:2
142:5
times
4:720:2521:180:11
90:15121:6126:8
127:10
timing
55:2274:15
today
18:1078:1386:22
95:11107:8,14
125:15
told
18:721:1645:452:12
63:13,2266:14,17
77:788:599:25
109:7114:13126:17
126:22127:6,9131:4
136:1138:18
tolerant
112:14,17
Tony
27:1828:16
top
69:4105:20106:7
116:8133:10
topic
21:16
total
36:1768:20117:25
133:15
totally
13:16138:23
touched
73:3
touching
80:20
tough
69:23
TRANSCRIBED
142:9
TRANSCRIPT
142:10,13,15
transferred
69:25
transitioned
7:10
travel
19:8,11
trial
14:3,515:117:1519:9
19:12,1448:21,22
90:23,2492:6138:18
trickle
78:9
tried
21:1,664:15125:14
true
3:1053:1856:1,1
58:15128:25132:24
132:25141:7142:10
trust
78:6
truthful
108:8
try
5:226:5,2325:1834:3
38:1944:1755:25
64:1665:1784:14
92:25112:18,18,18
119:9
trying
7:714:1221:1732:20
33:741:2456:6,7
60:1377:884:11,13
113:21,21,22114:13
116:18133:2138:3
139:5
tu
64:11
turn
128:7,8130:24
turned
24:973:11126:11
turning
126:15
243
Page 26
turns
69:20
twice
97:9,25
twist
73:18
two
7:1718:524:740:17
60:18,20,20103:3
112:23121:21
type
17:1255:12,20
types
129:21
T-I-O-N
7:25
U
uhm
6:1016:522:239:12
56:6,1769:4,674:18
81:1683:286:21
89:2492:5110:14
114:7120:2131:12
139:9
Uhm-hum
40:1143:25106:11
110:17
uh-huh
6:6
ultimate
31:25
ultimately
10:2311:9
unbalanced
81:9
UNDERSIGNED
142:2
understand
6:8,9,1014:831:14,15
39:21,2350:24,25
58:967:1677:891:3
98:18118:8122:9
123:24126:24
139:25
understanding
58:1089:5100:14,20
101:20102:2104:24
132:21134:9,11
understood
29:2254:1,369:2
104:19
unethical
35:17,18,1948:17
49:11,1561:1676:7
UNIDENTIFIED
91:2492:4,12,15,16
93:2,7,9,11,15,20,24
94:3,6,9,11,14,17
107:6,12,17,20119:6
119:15,18
UNITED
1:1
unjust
44:9
unknown
116:16
unreasonable
139:12
untruthful
108:8
update
4:13
upfront
34:1135:136:2
upper
65:7
upset
10:1018:7
USA
9:2
use
66:2279:490:11
94:2397:15119:16
usual
35:8
V
vague
58:7100:24101:3,23
101:23109:1,3111:7
various
11:17,1820:2257:20
65:24126:9
vastly
56:9
vehicles
22:1629:25
Ventura
2:35:111:4,21
verbal
17:24
versus
94:5
vice
53:2154:10
video
2:14,16,225:17,21
view
58:1589:7,13102:12
viral
128:24
Virgil
121:13,16
Virginia
64:23
virgin's
4:10
virtue
130:1
visibility
53:5134:4,5
visitation
65:3
visited
69:24
vocal
79:7
Voeltz
3:2518:1424:526:8
32:3,766:3
voice
79:7
VOLUME
2:1
voluntary
60:22
volunteers
53:7
voted
11:6
vs
1:63:11,25
W
wait
31:1932:14,1445:14
54:2483:590:10,10
90:10105:8110:9
111:4,4,4118:4
wake
58:1
walked
69:20
want
25:1827:1031:18
35:2138:539:4,4
43:3,2550:22,23
65:1668:775:18
79:4,881:1882:17
90:1796:11,13,13
97:22110:25111:5
112:15113:2,16,17
119:9130:15136:8
139:5,6140:1
wanted
24:7,928:15,1944:20
107:6111:17119:7
wants
102:8
warrant
103:20
Washington
20:2553:22
wasn't
11:2021:261:769:21
70:1,1773:1276:24
86:1126:20136:3
waste
133:3
Watch
1:74:65:1952:13
53:454:14,1976:16
76:2494:5,6126:4,8
243
Page 27
126:13131:5
way
2:127:218:525:17
32:1042:647:23
52:1054:3,1456:23
56:2560:12,1462:8
63:865:11,1269:10
69:1870:2,2,9,14
71:776:2581:882:8
84:1485:186:6
90:2397:4,14110:8
112:14,15124:9
ways
73:18
web
3:124:4,6,7,10,12,16
56:16
website
22:945:10,2546:6,17
46:2355:1065:21
66:1067:2,2569:11
77:2078:1886:24
114:1,1,2,3129:3,12
week
21:2027:1828:10,11
41:5,6
weeks
136:7
weigh
90:1,8
weighed
63:2
went
15:1336:1337:465:1
78:9,1192:10120:2
weren't
11:164:1884:13
we'll
34:3105:8
we're
18:20
we've
23:742:1243:22
80:10112:23139:5
whatsoever
17:19
WHEREOF
142:19
widely
129:12
wife
76:6
Wingnut
4:8
wishes
11:8
withdraw
58:11,1159:17
witness
6:229:810:7,912:14
13:314:2515:7,20
15:2416:2,7,17,19
16:2217:6,7,17,22
19:2020:2,925:15
25:2526:22,2527:14
27:1729:14,2231:12
31:13,20,2333:16,20
34:1738:747:648:1
48:2050:14,1751:4
51:8,13,18,2459:5,9
62:2567:9,18,23
68:2070:2571:7,16
71:1972:373:6
74:1578:280:24
81:8,2483:7,17,19
84:1087:5,10,17,24
88:10,20,2289:3,16
89:2190:4,1498:8
99:14100:3,4,18
103:24108:13109:2
109:25111:2,15,22
111:25112:7114:19
118:7,10126:20,22
127:9,21128:22
129:8,15130:11,14
131:22132:9,20
133:15,23,25134:16
135:3138:25140:2
142:19
WITNESSES
142:6
wonder
52:24
wondering
128:24
word
28:1734:20,20,23,23
44:1958:666:22
85:12,16,2090:11
112:19136:10
words
51:2452:758:985:23
97:14118:14136:9
136:11
work
7:69:4,5,20,2212:10
13:1816:421:1,25
24:4,1031:2544:21
54:4,8,969:21,23
85:22105:22106:9
worked
7:1111:921:2022:18
23:754:1869:24
102:11
working
9:2311:1256:7
works
52:1254:1356:3
131:4
world's
54:13
worse
11:1564:10134:20
worst
79:14132:21
wouldn't
34:2
write
108:10
writes
54:3105:21
written
17:19,2229:632:6
33:838:2339:6,7
44:4,5,1165:18
77:16,22112:19,20
113:3130:5
wrong
42:15,18118:6124:20
wrote
11:1727:464:16
66:1769:19
X
X
3:1,7
Y
yeah
14:127:1629:19,22
32:1738:741:18
106:6107:4,9120:13
121:17,20128:13
year
11:19123:8,9,9
years
18:574:1687:1102:4
103:4
Yep
110:16
yesterday's
4:12
York
7:12
$
$1,014.26
60:24
$11,000
133:6,9,19
$12,000
118:3
$18,000
34:1236:2,841:10
$20,000
117:19
$21,000
39:14,25117:25
$25,000
4:14
$395
35:7117:16
$600
35:8
243
Page 28
$78,861.76
60:19
$9,300
42:20116:23117:2,24
1
1
2:13:95:683:3,11
95:6,8,11130:5
1st
35:9
1,000
116:13
10
4:488:14
10:48
140:6
100
2:2,20
102
3:19
104
4:16
11
4:660:20
11K
41:7
11,000
134:2,7
11/1/11
4:9
11410
2:20
12
4:769:581:1782:11
82:2083:1285:9
104:7,11105:17
106:5110:7133:14
12/8/12
4:11
12350
1:212:4142:24
128
3:3
13
4:10
13-20610
94:9
13-20610-CIV
1:6
1320610
94:8
135
3:3
14
4:1247:3,8,1148:4
49:2558:1859:21,24
59:2560:2081:16,24
82:3,4,5,6,1183:13
128:7130:24132:16
15
4:165:6104:2,4110:7
15:20
4:20
16:17
4:20
18K
35:141:9
18,000
36:2337:338:341:4
42:22
19:20
4:20
1960s
7:119:18
1980
7:13
1986
7:14
2
2
3:1234:2481:17,18
81:2482:3,11,19,22
82:2483:11,1284:2
84:285:895:17
104:11,18105:11
130:25
2/22/2010
3:19
2/23/2012
4:15
2/26/2012
4:17
2/3/12
3:12
2/8/2012
3:21
2:30
119:10139:18
20
141:9
20:2
4:20
20:9
4:20
2008
10:10
2009
10:10,2560:22
2010
7:159:1911:560:22
102:21103:3,11
2011
20:13,16,1921:3,8,13
27:2560:2397:8
114:12123:8
2012
25:440:2041:10,11
43:2044:2546:24
55:858:2360:25
69:1274:2578:23
84:4104:15114:1,7
114:8,15,17115:2,6
115:21116:3,3,12
117:3,11,11,23,23
118:1,16,21120:15
123:15128:12137:9
138:6
2014
1:132:25:2
2027
2:12
2041
7:2
21
133:15
21,000
36:19118:15
22
102:21
23
1:132:25:246:24
55:858:2369:12
74:25114:1,7116:3
117:3,11128:11
23rd
137:2
24
3:21
25
38:3
25,000
69:20
2520
2:12
26
104:15114:8136:7
3
3
3:1343:2569:584:4
95:18,2096:25
102:18104:7105:17
105:18,20106:3,4,5
106:8110:7,13
3,000
41:5
3,300
116:13
30
60:23
305
119:19
310-595-0800
2:13
316840
3:15,18,19
33145
2:12
33418
2:20
37
4:1
243
Page 29
4
4
3:1696:20,2297:5
104:9110:6,13,13
111:10,14128:9
40
3:24
43
4:2
47
4:12
5
5
3:3,194:4,6,7,10
102:14,16,19130:5
5,000
116:13
5-minute
94:23127:15
5/7/2012
3:24
561
93:23,25
561-694-0700
2:21
5700
2:2
6
6
3:2124:20,2226:15
33:1134:6,838:16
38:1739:9,13
60
60:1782:7
693-9897
93:23,25
7
7
3:2440:11,14,20
41:1060:25116:5,12
117:11,23118:1,16
118:21120:4,12,14
7/10/07
4:6
7/2/2010
3:18
7/23/12
4:1
7/28/2009
3:15
7:20
128:12
7:40
1:142:15:3
8
8
4:125:437:11,14,16
38:10,2239:9,13
41:11114:15,17
115:2,6
8th
115:17,21116:3
8/10/12
4:5
8:43
40:20
82
3:12
83:17
4:20
87:17
4:20
87:24
4:20
9
9
4:243:11,1444:25
9K
41:2242:14,17
9th
43:20
9,000
42:12,21
9,300
118:15
9/12/12
4:2
923-5920
119:19
95
3:9,13
96
3:16
243
George Miller Deposition
Exhibit 1
@n EXHIBIT_/
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Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas
Criminal Court Division
State of Ohio,
l'laialiff
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A TrJe Billllldictmelll For
Criminal No111upport F5
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The State of Ohio.
Counr;
Count Orttl Criminal FS

l.ury Klaytn11n
Dahl of Ot'l'ei'I:Je On or about Seplt:mbcr 2S, 2009 September 24, 2011
I
Or411rllvryafihl S/(J(IIo/0/:Jo. wlthlllt:md/01' :htlioU,oftniiCDwtiJqfcr&tald, O!'lt11Jir 04thJ. iN THENAMS
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!id recklessly fail to provido support as established by a court order to Isabelle, w:torn, by coot ordet
or decree, Larry KlaymM w11.s legally obligated to 3upport.
FURTIIERMORB,Iho cffender failed to provide support fot & tot!!.l period ct"menty-six,
weelcs out ot' one hundred Will' eonstcutivo weeks. \
li:f rh/Cm uft/Jt Jla/uff In JWdl .:md pf'I1Pidul, umJ tha pea-:. Ul!d di""ITJI SliJII cf \
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A Tru lndKtmtl1t
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J Defendant. Larry Klayman
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1
Date ot Offtnse On or about September 2009to September 24, 2011
I
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The o11thelr o(f]/u,furthu find .
Jid recklessly fail to provido support at established by a. court order to Lance, whom. by court ordet: '
I
or decree, Larry Klayman was legally obllgwd to support ,
FL'RTHER.\10RE, tho offender fuiled to provide support fur a total accumulated period oftwenty-,i:lc I
weeks out of one hundred fout consecutive weeks.
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Exhibit 3

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case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA
,,
LARRY ELLIOT KLAY:\1AN Case No: DR07 316840
Petitioner Judge: DIANE M. PALOS
vs.-
STEPHANIE DELUCA JUDGMENT ENTRY
Respondent
This matter came on for hearing on July 20, 2009, before Timothy R. Brown
'lpon Respondent'sMotioo For Contempt Support (Post-decree) #259350, Respondent'sl\.lotion
For Contempt Support (Post-decree) ri273344. Respondcnt'sMotion For Attorney Fees #273 345,
Respondcnt'sMotion For Attorney Fees #277027 and Respondent'sMotion For Contempt Support
(Post-decree) #277835. Appearances were ma<.le by Roger L. Kleinman (Attorney For Plamtift),
Step!l;u1ie Ann Deluca, Respondent, Suzanne M. Jambe (Attorney For Defendant) ond James H.
Roll;nson tAttorney for Def.:ndam). TI1e Court Reporter was Karen S. Lamendola.
Court :1dopts the tiled July 28, 2009, in its entirety.
IT IS HEREHY ORDERED:
PETITIONER'S OBJECTIONS FlLED AUGUST 11,2009 TO THE
.\1Mf!STRATE'S DECISION FlLIW JULY 28, 2009 ARI<: HEREBY
OV"ERRULED A:'IID THE DECISION OF THE MAGISTRATE APPROVED.
RESl'ONDENT'S OBJECTIONS FilED AUG'UST2l, 2009 TO THE
TE'S DECISION FllED JULY 28,2009 ARE HEREBY
OVERRULED A."lD THE DECISION OF THE MAGISTRATE ,\PPROVED.
IT fS THEREFORE ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that the LARRY
ELLIOT KLAYMAN, is in contempt of C11urt. The Court tinds that thi: Obligor, lARRY ELLIOT
KLAYMAN. is in arrears in the amount of D..l.._393.00 (including attorney files) computed as of Julv JO\
which is owed Obligee. Stephanie Ann Deluca, her ;md/or the Cuyahoga Support
Enfon:ement ,1\gency lCSEA) and is re<hl<ed to judgment upo whlcb execution may is!ue. This sum
all previously accrued support arrears and processing charges, and superccdcs :1!1 prior
determinations. 'lne Obligor, LARRY ELLIOT KLA has been credited with all
pyments, direcVwlived payments. TI1e arrearage reflects adjustments to processing charge
arrears due to directlwahed payments since those payments were not by the CSEA.
243
case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 394 Entered on FL.SD Docket 121'05/2013 Page 3 of 6
The Obligor, LAHRY ELLIOT KLA Y:'flAN, is hereby srntenccd (or said contempt to
HURTY (30) u11ys lu or iu lhe to perform not Ins than 2.00 houn of community
in lieu of actual irn:arcention, wbiclt service shall be performed at lhe direttion of Court
Cormnunity Servic and be subjl!tt to the Couri'1 rnlew. The community service shall be
completed no days fturn the dale. lite Obligor, LARRY ELLIOT KLA Y:\1AN, Rports IO
Court Community Scervic:e. However, the Obligor, LARRY ELLIOT sentence will
be purged provided that the Obligor, LARRY ELUOT KL\ YMAN, pays SJ.200,00 through the
CSEA wltbia JO days of tbe journaliutioa of tbb order. This purge payment i:s In lldditlon to any
obligation to pay current support at'ld arrearuge payments, whlth may be due.
All support sbaU be paid througb the Oblo Child Sttpport Payment Central (OCSPC), P.O.
Box l8237%, Columba,, Ohio 43US.lJ72. Any payments not made through OCS?C shall not be
considered as payment of support. Cash payments may be made at the Cuyahoga County Treasurer's
OtTrce. County Administration Building, t floor- Cashier, 1219 Ontario Street. Cleveland, Ohio 441 I J.
All payment$ include the following: Obligor's oilll'le, Social Security Number, SETS case number,
Relations Court number. Checks and money orders must be payable to Ohio Child
Support Payment Central.
In the event the Obligor, L'\RRY ELLIOT KLA tloes not purge hi' conttmpt, he i!i
hereby ordered to N!port, during regular Cl>urt buJiness boun (8:30-ll :30 A.M. l!ld l :3()..3:30
P.:\1), to the Court Community Service Liaison in Room 306 (Third floor) in the Old O>urlhoun.,
One Lakesid.e Avtnue, no later tbn fGrty (40) days dter the joumallution of this order, to
perform his community service, to immedillle upon later complianet. UP<Jn the
failure to purge. the to complete hi.t community "'l<!rviu within the time spteilled, or if
terminated by Court Commuaity Service, the Court, upon the flling or au affidavit uf the Obligee,
Stephanie Ann Deluca, or the CSEA with an attached <:er1ified copy of CSE,\/OCSPC payment
records and the filing of an affidavit of the Court Community Servite Uahon, shall is11ue a capias
for the Obligor, Larry Elliot Klayman, to serve the juil scnteuce ordered above. Said llilidavit($)
>hall filed witbia o11e (1) year o{ tho journaliutloa of this order.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DJ:CREED that, :n the event that the
Obligor, I..AR.R.Y ELLIOT KLAYMAN, is sentenced to perfonn community service and reports for
,a1d the Obligor
1
LARRY ELLIOT KLAYMAN, shall pay the of seventy dollars
(170,0(}) directly to Court Community Service for administrative costS.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED A.'ID DECREED that in lddition to the above
>entence :md civil purge, the Obligor, LARRY ELLIOT KL\ YMA,"''', shall do the following:
1) Continue to per month, which includes Z% processing ,harge,
>up port for the remaining mmor children LJnco, Isabelle
per month per child !lQl including 2% processing charge);
2) J>ay an il.(;iQJlQ per month toward the arrearage until the arrearage is paid in full or
until further order of Court. Processing charges shall not be collected on the arrearJge
payment since the above arrearage includes lll accrued processing charges.
Total montlil)' support ordtr is $2,196.00.
IT IS FURTHLR ORDERED, ADJlJDGED AND DECREED: that this Court reserves
jurisdiction to address the issue of unpaid medical expenses.
;iS<SS_T? DOC
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Cuse 1:13-cv20610CMA Document 39-4 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2013 Page 4 of 6
All support under this order shall be withheld or deductetl from the ineome or assers of the
Obligor, LARRY ELLIOT KLAYMAN, pursuMt to a withholding or deduction notice or appropriate
order issued in accordance with Ch3pters .3119., J 123., and 3125. of the: Revised Code or a wtthdrnwal
directive issued pursuant to sections J 123.24 to J 123.38 of the Revised Code and shall be for.varded to
the STEPllA.NIE ANN DELUCA. in with Chapters 3119., 3121., 3113., and
3l2S.ofthe Revised Code.
To the support obligation. the Court further rinds that: (check apprcpri.ne box)
Until tho income source oogins withholding in the appropriate amount. the Obligor
shall make payments (check or money onler payable to OCSPC) directly to Ohio
Child Support Payment Central (OCSPC).
1:?) Obligor's source is not atta,hable; that Obligor has the ability to posts cash
bond :md therefore an order to post bond in the amcuntofSJ.672.00 which
sum includes 2% pra<:essing charge, should issue.
IT 1S FURTHER ORDERED. ADJUDGED AND DECREED that Obligor, LARRY
ELLIOT KLA 't'MAN immediately notiiY CSEA, in writing, of the commencement of, or any change in
self.employment). Receipt of 3dditional incomeimon1es or termination uf
benefits. Obligor. LARRY ELUOT KLA shall include a ,jescription of the nature of the
income ;:md the name, business address and telephone number of any income souoce. Obligor, LARRY
ELLIOT KLAYMAN, shall immediately notify CSEA of any change 1n the >talus of an account from
suppol1 is being deducted or the opening of a new account with any financial institution alone with
the name, busmess and account number(s).
JT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that Obligor, LARRY
F:Ll.IOT KLA YJ\IAN, 111d Oblige(!, STEPHANIE ANN DILUC.-\, comply with the request of the
CSEA or the Court to provide information regarding their health insuran<:e ber,etits, federal in<:orne tax
rerum from the previous year, all pay stub:s wHhin the preceding six (6) months, all other record!!
evidencing the receipt of any other salll.l)', wages or compensation wilhin the prceeding six (6) monrhs.
Said records include., but are not limited to, proof of unemplo;ment status, linancial instttution accounts
.1nd .my benefits (i.e., unemployment. sub pay, sick leave, Workers Compensation, severance pay,
retirement, disability, annuities, Social Security and Verer.m's Administr.lticn benei'its).
Either party's failure to provide any earnings/benefits information pursuant to this order, or
:aitun: to comply with the foregoing order of norificaticn 5hall be ccntempt of Court,
punishable '::ly a fine and/or jail sentence. Attorney fees and Court cosl$ may then be lssessed against the
pa.ny held ln contempt.
IT IS FL'RTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that the residentilli par-nt and
legal custodian of the children immediately notify the Cuyahoga Support Enforcement Agency (CSEA)
of any reason for which the support order should terminute, including but not limited to, the child's
attaining tho age of majority (age 18) if the child no longer attends an accredited high school on a full
time basis; the 'hild ceases to continuously attend ;tn accrediw:t high school on a full-tirr.e basis after
attaining the age of majority; the child's death, marriage, emanctpation, enlistment in the Armed
deportation; or change of legal custody of the chiid.
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243
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case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 39-4 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05i2013 Page 5 of 6
The following infonnation is ;J0Vided by the parties rbr the use oi the Cuyahoga Support
Enforcement Agency (CSEA) in accordance with 3121.24 of the Ohio Rc:vised Code;
OBLIGEE:
Stephanie Ann Deluca
RESIDENCE ADDRESS: 2398 Kerwick Road
Cleveland, Oh 441 I 3-0000
MAILING ADDRESS: 2&98 Kerwick Road
Clevelnnd, Oh 441180000
SOCIAL SECURITY NO.:
DATE OF BIRTH: 11/3011966
DRIVERS LICENSE NO.:
OBLIGOR:
NAME: Larrt Elliot Klayman
RESmENCE ADDRESS: J415 Sw 24th Street
Miami,f'l 331450000
MAILING ADDRESS: 3415 Sw 24th Street
Fl 33145-0000
SOC tAL SECURITY NO.:
DATE OF AIRTH: 07/20/195!
DRJVER.S LICENSE NO.:
EACH PARTY TO THIS SUPPORT ORDER M'UST NOTrFV THE ClULD SUPPORT
NFORCE;\1ENT AGENCY IN WRITl:-fG OF HIS OR HER CURRENT :"rt<\ILL"'G ADDRESS,
CURREN! RESIDENCE ADDRESS, ctiRRENT RESIDENCE TELEPHONE Nu:\lBER,
Ct;Rlt.J.:NT DRIVER'S LICENSE NU:'t'lDER, ,\!,..D 0<' ,\.."fY CHANCES IN THAT
t:ACH PARTY :\'1UST NOTIFY THE AGENCY OF ALL CHANGES UNTIL
WRTHER NOTICE FROM THE COURT OR AGE:-iCY, WHlCHEVER ISSUED THE
SUPPORT ORDER. 1F YOU ARE THE OBLIGOR UNDER A CHfLD SUPPORT ORDER A.">>D
YOU FAIL TO MAKE THE REQUIRED NOllFICA fiONS, YOU MAY BE FINED UP TO $50
FOR A fiRST OFFENSE, $100 FOR A SECONU OFFE:;SE, i.stlO FOR EACH
SUBSEQUENT OFFENSE. IF YOU ARE AN OBLIGOR OR OBLIGEE UNDER A:'oiY
SUl'PORT ORDER ISSUED UV A COURT ,\NO YOU WILLFULLY FAlL 1'0 GIVE THE
REQUIRED NOTICES, YOU MAY BE FOUND ri CONTEMPT OF COURT AND BE
SUBJECTED TO FINES t"J' TO Sl,OO() A..'fD L\IPRISON:'ttENT FOR NOT :"rfORE THA.''i 90
DAYS. IF YOU ARE AN OBLIGOR AND YOU FAlL TO GIVE THE REQUIRED NOTICES,
YOU :vtAY RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE FOLLOWING ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS AGAINST
YOU: IMPOSITION OF LIENS AGA.lNST YOUR PROPERTY; LOSS OF YOUR
PROFF.SSlONAL OR OCCUPATIONAL LICENSE, DRIVER'S LICENSE, OR
RECREATIONAL liCENSE; WITlffiOLDING FROM YOUR ACCESS
RESTRJCTION AND DEDUCTION FROM YOUR ACCOUNTS m FINANCIAL
INSTITUTIONS; AND ANY OTHER ACTION PER.'\UTTED BY L\W TO OBTAIN l\lONEY
FROM YOU TO SATISFY YOUR StJPPOHT OBLIGATION.
4
243

case 1: 13-cv-20610CMA Document 39-4 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2013 Page 6 of 6
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Failure to comply with this order rt::;ult in a contempt action as provided in Ohio
!levi sed Code Stction 2705.05, the penalty for which may be imprisonment for not more than
:hirty (30) days in jail and/or fine of not more than $250.00 for the tirst otTense, sixty (60) days
in jlil :.md/or $500.00 tine for 1he offense, and up to $1,000.00 tine and/or ninety (90)
days for third or subsequent offenses.
pap
cc:
Cosls adjudged against Petitioner.
Roger L. Kleinman, Esq.
Anorney for Petitioner
Suzanne M. l.lmbe, Esq.
Attorney for Respondent
HUS_Tl' [))C ('!-'2006)
RI!CEIV!!O FOR FILING
SEP 2 4 Z009
5
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Exhibit 4
Jt EXHIBIT _!d_

243
)
case L13-cv20610CMA Document 395 Entered on FLSO Docket 12/05/2013 Page 2
. , ocra
7
u
0
COURI OF COMMON PLEAS
OIVISfON OF DOMESTIC RELATIONS
CUYAHOGA COUNTY. OHIO
LARRY ELLIOT KLA \'MAN Case No: DR07 .316841).
Petitioner Judge: DIA.'lE PALOS
- vs.-
STEPHANIE ANN LUCK .nJIJGl\IENT Ei'ITRY

This matler ctlme on for hearing on June 23, 1010. before Magistrate Serpil Ergun upon
Respondent's Morion To Show C:ltlse For Continued Non-Payment of Child Support (#239099)
and :VIotion For Attorney Fees (#ZS9100) !lied October 15, 2009; Petitioner's Motion To
'.Vitbdraw Capias tiled December 8, 2009; und the Guardian Ad Litem's Motion For
Guardian Ad Litem Fees (<1292173) filed December 10, 20D9. Present were Attorney William
'.Vhitaker on behalf of the Petilioner, Resp<mdcnt, and Attorney Suzanne Jam be on behalf of the
Hespondent. Petitioner and the Guardiun ,\d Litem Jermifer tailed to appear.
rhe C(11lrt adopts the Decision tiled July l, WW, in its entirety.
IT IS HEREBY ORDERED:
.\fTR CONSIDERJ:'-!G THE MAGISTRATE'S llECISION FILED
J1JL Y 2, 2010, PLEADINGS, EXHlBJTS AND JN THE AUSENCE
OF.\ TRANSCRIPT, IE.TITIOI'ER'S OBJECTIONS FILED
HILY Hi, 2010 AH.E HE!lliHY OVF:RRULEO DECISION
Of Tlif. :\1.-\GISTRATf. ADOl'TED WITHOUT MODIFICATION.
Petitioner's Motion fo Withdraw Capias (#29l 722) filed December 3, 2009 is
DISMISSED without preJudice.
rhe Guardnm Ad Litem's :\1otion For Guardian Ad Litem Fees l#29217J) tiled
D(..-cember I 0, :::009 is DISMISSED without prejudice.
Respondent's Motion To Show Cause for Continued NonPaymcm of Child Support
1"12&9099) tiled October 15, 2009 is GRANTED.
Petitioner/Obligor Larry is in contempt of Court for failing to comply with ih1s
Court's support order journalized September :.24. 2009, ilS well as the divorce decree registered in
rhis by order journalized August 23, 2007.
243
1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 39-5 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/05/2013 Page 3 ct 6
PetitiOJler is in in the amount of S47,600.90 as of :vtay 31, 2010, which is owed
the Respondent/Obligee Stephanie DeLuc;1 flkla Stephanie Klayman, Respondent's
and the Child Support Enforcement Agency (CSEA). fhis sum includes all previously accrued
artcdfs and processing charges, itnd suJXrcedc:' all prior determination:s. Petitioner also
owes Respondent $5,950.00 for tuition expended for the children for the 20092010 and 2010
2011 school years.
1'11is is Petitioner's second offense in this Court for nonpayment of support.
Petitioner is hereby sentenced for said contempt to silty (60) day! in jail, However,
the Petitioner's will be 'uspended and the conrempa wlll be purged PROVIDED
Petitioner l>ays $10,000.00 the CSEA within 30 days of the journallzation of
this order. This purge payment i3 in :audition Ia any obligation to pay current support and
arrearage that may be due.
.\It support shall be paid througlt Ohio Child .Support t,yrnent Centr:d (OCSPC),
r.O. Oox 182.372, Columbo,, Obi() 432182372. Any payments not mode through OCSPC
>hall not be: :iS of support. Checks or money orders shall be made payable to
"OCSPC". Ca.sh payments to OCSPC may be made at the Cuyahoga County Treasurer'! Office,
.t
County Administration 13uilding, I Floor- Cashier, 1219 Ontario Street, Cleveland, Ohio
All payments shall include the following: Obligor's ntUne, Social Security Number,
SETS case number. anJ Domestic Relations Court case number.
In the event P11titioner dou not purgt the (On tempt, the Court, up<Jn I be filing of an
affida\it of the Respondent St<>pbanie OeLuu or the CSEA with an attached certifled copy
of CSEAJOCSPC payment records, shall mue a for Petitioner Larry Klayman to
serve lht jail sentence otdtnd :abQve Said actldavlt shall be filed within one (I) yur of the
journalizatiun of this urder.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED. ADJUDGED ANI> DECREED that in addition to the
sentence and civil purge, Petitioner shall do the following;
l) Continue to pay $1,!D6.00 per month, .vhich includes 2% processing charge, as
current suppon for the minor children ls('lbelle Natalie Klayman lDOB 12115/1997}
'-lnd Lmce \\/illiam Klayman (008 H-14-1999) ($900.00 per month per chill.! !L\2!
including 2.% processing charge);
2} Pay an additional $360.00 per month toward the arre:uagc until the arrearage is paid
in full or uno! further order of Court. Processing <:harges shall not be collected on tl':e
.1rreJtage payment since the above! arrearage includes <lllaccrued processing charges.
Total monthly qblfgaliou b $2,196.00.
All support under this order shall be witllhcld or deducted from the income or nsscts of
!he obligor pursuant to a withholding or deduction notice or appropriate: order issued in
2
243
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)
case 1: 13-cv-20610-CMA Document 39-5 Entered-::-o-::-n
Jccordance with Chapters J I 1 9., J 12 t., J 113., and J 125. of the Revised Code or a withdrawal
directive issued pursuant to sections 3123.24 to 3123.38 of the Re'vised Code and shall be
forwarded.
The prior order to post bond dated 24, 2009 shall rcm:1in in tull force ;md
lT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that the Obligor
immediately notify the CSEA, in writing, of my change in .:mployment (including self.
employment), receipt of additional incomefmonies or termination of benefits. ll':e Obligor shall
include a description of the nature of :he employment and the n:une, business address a11d
tdephone number of any employer. The Obligor shall immediately notit)' the CSEA of :my
.:hange in the status uf an from which support is being deducted or the opemng of a new'
account \vith ,my llnancial institution.
lT lS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that the Child Support
Obligor :md the Child Support Obligee shaH comply with the Nquest of the CSEA in advance
)f an administrative rev1ew of a support order to provide the following: copy of federal income
tax return from the previous year, copy of all pay stubs v\<ithin the preceding six { 6) months, copy
\![all other records evidencing the receipt of any other salary, wJgt:s or within the
preceding six {6) months, and, if the Obligor is :s member of the uniformed services. .lnd en
active mditnry duty, n copy of the Obligor's Internal Revenue Servke form W-2, "Wage and
Tal< Statement," arni a .:opy of a statement detailing the Obligor's earnings and leave with the
t.:niforrned ;;ervice'3. The Child Support Obligor and the Child Support Obligee $hall abo
rnwtde a list of group health insurance and health c;ue policies, contracts and plans,
:md their costs. the C\lm:nt health insuram:e or care policy, contract. or plan under which
thr.: Obligee andiot Obligor is/are enrolled. and \heir costs, including any Tricare progrJm offered
by the United States Department of Defense available 10 the Obligee, and any other
nl!cessary to properly review the child support order.
t:ither party's failure !<l provide any earntn!Ss/benetits intonnation pursuant TO this order,
<Jr failure to '!<Hnply with the foregoing order of notification shall be considered contempt of
Court, punishable by <l tine and/or jail
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED. ADJUDGED AND DECREED !hat the residential
parent :md legal cu5todian of the child( reo) immediately shall notify, and the obligor under a
support order may notify, the CSEA of any reason for which the child support order should
tenninate, including but not limited to the child's maniage, emandpution (age 1 & or high
s..:hool completion/termination), enlistment in the Armed Services. t1eportation, or change of
legal ..:ustot.ly. A willful faih.:re to notify the CSEA is contempt of court.
l11e following information is provided for the use of the CSEA in accord:mce with
3121.24 and q3121.JO of the Ohio Revised Code:
3
243
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case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 395 Entered on FLSD Docket 12105/2013 Page 5 of 6
OBLIGEE:
NAME: )!ephanie Ann Luck
RESIDENCE ADDRESS: 2598 Kcrwick Road
Clclvei<Uld
1
Oh 44118-0000
MAlUNG ADDRESS: 1598 Kt-rwiclt Road
Cleveland. Oh 44118-0000
SCCIAL SECl!RJTY NO.:
DATE OF BIRTH: l 1/.30/1966
DRJVERS LICENSE NO.:
OBLIGOR::
NAME: larry Elliot Klayman
RESIDENCE ADDRESS: P 0. Goa 2788
Washingto11, De 20013-0000
M,\lLING ADDRESS: P.O. R o ~ zng
Washington, De :ZOOIJ-0000
SOCIAL SECURITY NO.:
DArE Of BIRTH; 07120/1951
DR.IVERS LICENSE NO.:
.-\ ttomey ;"ees and court Nsts may be Msessed against the party held in contempt.
l11e parties affected by the support order shall inform the CSE:\ of any ehange of name
o)f nther change of conditions that may aifect the :ldministration of the order. Willful failure to
intorm the CSEA oft he ~ b o v e information and any cha.nges 1s contempt of court
EACH PARTY TO THIS SUPPORT ORDER :\lUST NOTJFY THE CHILD
SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT AGENCY IN WRITING OF HIS OR HER CURRENT
:\-tAILING ADDRESS, CURRENT RESlDENCE ADDRESS, CURRENT RESIDENCE
rELEPHONE NUMBER. CURRENT DIUVER'S LICENSE Nt:MUER, AND OF ANY
CHANm;s f.N THAT lNFORMA.TION .. EACH PARTY MUST NO'flFY THE AGENCY
OF ALL CHANGES UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE FROM THE COURT OR AGE:"oi'CY,
WHICHEVER ISSUED THE SUPPORT ORDER. IF YOU ARE THE OBLIGOR
UNOER ,\ CHILD SUPPORT ORDE.R AND YOU FAIL TO MAKE THE REQUIRED
NOTIFICATIONS, YOU l\IAY BE FINED UP TO SSO FOR A FlRST OFFENSE, $100
fOR A SECOND OFFENSE, AND SSOO FOR EACH St:BSEQUENT OFFENSE. IF YOU
ARE AN OBLIGOR OR OBLIGEE UNDER ,\NY SUPPORT ORDER ISSUED BY A
COliRT ANl) YOU WILLFULLY FAIL TO GIVE THE REQUIRED NOTICES, 'tOU
MAY BE FOUND IN CONTEMPT OF COURT AND BE SUBJECTED TO FINES UP TO
Sl,OOO AND 11\IPRISONMENT FOR NOT MORE THAI"i 90 DAYS.
IF YOU ARE ,\N OBLIGOR AND YOU FAIL TO GIVE THE REQUIRED
."/OTJCES, YOU 'fAY NOT RECEIVE ."'OTJCE OF THE FOLLOWING
ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS AGAINST YOU: IMPOSITION OF LIENS AGAlNST
YOUR PROPERTY; LOSS OF YOUR PROFESSIONAL OR OCCUPATIONAL
LICE:"lSE, DlUVER'S LICENSE, OR RECREATIONAL liCENSE; WlTHJIOLDING
FROM YOUR INCOME; ACCESS RESTRJCOON AND DEDUCTION FROM YOUR
243
)
\
j
. Gase 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 395 2ntered en FLSD Docket 12/0512013 Payt: 6 of o
ACCOUNTS ~ FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS; ,\NO ..\NY OTHER ACTION
PEit\UTT'RD UY LAW TO OJlTAlN MONF.Y FROM YOU TO SATISFY YOUR
SUPPORf OBUC.\TION.
Failure to comply with this support order can result in a contempt action; and, as
provided in Ohio Revised Code 2705.05. lhe penalty for which may be imprisonment for not
more thnn thirty (30) day$ in jail and/or tine of not more than 5250.00 for a tirst otfense, r.ot
rnure than sixty (60) days in jail and/or tlne of not more tl1an $500.00 for a second o!Tense, and
not more than ninety l90) days in jail and/or not more than $1,000.00 fine for a third. or
subsequent otTense.
All orders not modifk-d herein shall remain in full fon:e :md effect.
Respondent's Motion For Attorney fees (112891 00) tiled October 15, 2009 is
GR.A.'ITED. Petitioner shall p.ay $2,500.00 toward the: Responuent's .!llorney fees a.'i additional
spousal.>upport for which judgment is rendered and execution may issue.
pap
cc:
?ctitioner shall pay ::til costs of this action.
Costs adjudged as provided in the above entry.
Roger L Kleinman. Esq.
Attorney for Petitioner
Suzanne M. Jambe, Esq.
Attorney for Respondent
Jennifer L. Malensc:k, Esq.
Guardian ad Litem
RECEIVED FOR FILING
JUN 2 4 2011
243
Exl1ibit 5
~ ~
Depo n
~ ~
WWW.DEPOBOOK.COM
243
.,
'
I
C>1se No: DH07 316840 O&A
LARRY ELLIOT KLAYMAN vs. STEPIL\NIE M"N LUCK
'-o
i;;:;;l':l

5!;:
:!!a

:=a
Judge: DIANE M. PALOS
__________________________________________
Date: 02/2212010
CAPIAS ORDERED FOR PLAINTIFF
NAME: LA.RR Y ELLIOT KLA YMAi'l
ADDRESS: SEE ATTACHED
HOLD fN CCSTODY AND BRING BEFORE TH13 COURT WITIIOUT DEL\Y.

I ....
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COURT COSTS ADJUDGED AGAlNSTj 1,3RRX ELLIQI 1\L.aYJIAJ;:i

.\ITORNEY FOR DEFENDANT: SUZANNE M. JA.viBE
ftEC'O FOR FILING
GERALD a I'UERST
Clerk of Courts
Court of Common Pleal
Division of Domestic Relations
o.J(..:
ORPUTY
RECEIVED FOR
MAR 16 20!0
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243
Exhibit 6

243
Gnail- Fwd: Retention Agreement with Kl:.wman Law Finn Page 1 of2
\
Dina James <daj142182@gmail.com>
Fwd: Retention Agreement with Klayman Law Firm
2 messages
Larry Klayman <leklayman@gmatl.com> Tue. Jan 28, 2014 at 8:59AM
To: Dina James <daj14:2182@gmatl.com>, \eklayman .:leklayman@gmail.com>
------ Forwarded messaae ------
From: Larry Klayman <lekiayman@gmatl.com>
Date: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 9:44AM
Subject: Retention Agreement with Klayman Law Firm
To: "George J. M.tler" <gmiiler@facliitatorgroup.net>
Dear George:
1 w1U prepare a rmre formal legal retention agreement today, but here are the essential terms that you can
run by the grouP.
To file su1t in Flor.da w:U need an uo front retainer of 18 K, which will need to be kept at this level
throughout the course of the case by replenishing it monthly. I will bill for out of pocket disbursements ard
expenses, and my hOurly rate will be S395 per hour. which is reduced from my usual mintmum mte of S500
per 110ur. Statements wtll issue en the first ef each month and be payable on receipt.
If the group decrdes to file 1n California as well, the retainer wdl be ZSK, replenished en the sarne terms. for
both legal actions.
I wJil not bill for the time that I cut in to help the gro;;p ratSe funds, and I will rent my direct rr.a1llist to
the group at rr.arket rates to help factlitate f:Jndra1sing. I wtll also intervene with WoridNetDaHy and
Response Un!im1ted to get the group the best deal poss1ble. As you know, I am close wtth Joseph Farah,
:epresent n1m and Jerome Corsi 1n a related swt agallist Esquire magazine. and have a number of contacts
elsewhere that w:ll prove helpful.
If we prornoie tn1s correctly, 1t snould be easy to raise the mon1es needed to pursue our legal ob;ect1ves
Frankly, vve have no chotce tut to pursue this strategy, as the nation is on 1:s knees and headed down for
:he count No Reoublican can currently beat Obama, not even Romney, who took 1t on the chin yest.erday
he, Santorum or Gtngnch are likely to succeed. Our only hope is to legally remove Obarna,
whatever the odds. with God's grace,
Please let me knew who wll be the sgr:atones to the legal representation agreement and I wtll draw it up
and send it today.
Sincerely,
Larry
-------------
Larry Klayman com> Tue, Jan 28. 2014 at 9:00AM
To: Dina James <daj142182@gma:l.com:-. leklayrran <leklayman@gmall.com>
hnps:lJJnail.goog!e.com/rnail/wOI'.'ui=2&ik=dce57daaea&vicw=pt&search""inb<
243
Exhibit 7

WWW.DEPOBOOK.COM
243
_)
l.imail -Fwd: Voelr7. v. Obamn ct. al Florida Ballot Chal!C'ngc Page 1 of1
Dina James <daj1421B2@gmail.com>
Fwd: Voeltz v. Obama et. al - Florida Ballot Challenge
1 rr.essage
Larry Klayman <leklayman@gmail.com> Tue, Ja!"l 28, 2014 at 914 ,'lJ\11
ro: Dina James <daj142182@gmalf.com>, ieklayman
------ For.varded message----
From: <m!crocapmaven@acl.com>
Date; Mon, May 7, 2012 at 10:06 PM
SubJect: Re. Voe:tz v. Obama et. al Flcnda Bailot Chalie:1ge
To: leklayman@gmail com
We have already paid at least $9K
- SSOOO was sent via Sam directly to you
$3300 was sent from our collections when we had the Article II PAC
- 51000 was sent to you from Constitutional Action Fund.com, Inc
- An unknown amount was sent directly from people given your address and bank
number while we were trying to get ConstitutionActionFund.com, Inc started.
How much more did you receive directly?
That would leave $9K or less to go, according to my math. Where did I go wrong?
Regards,
George Miller
http://venturacountytoaparty.com
http://obamaballotchallenge.corn
- 1\:1essage----
f;rcrn: Umy Klayman <l.:::klayr1an@grrail com>
To. George J. tvli!:er <microcapmaven.gaol.:om>
Sent r:.ca. May 7, 2012 8:43 om
::>wb)ect: Voeltz v. Obarr1a ct. al F:or11a Bailct Ch,JIIewJe
George. Sam an::l Pa:ne:a:
ihis comlrms that I w:ll take th1s through the heanng on ctefend3nts' motion to l11srniss if you pay the
a9reed retainer. :n full, of 18K, before t."e heanrg. You agreed :o pay abot:t 3K this .veek with more com1ng
'lext week. The rerramder of t.1e retainer at !hiS pomt 1n lime 1S 11 K.
.:cu tor your ::;opera ton
Best.
Larry Ki;:;ymJn
l:ttps :/!mai I. glc.com/mail/u;O/'?ui =2&ik "-tlce5 7 daaea&view"'pt&s:!arch::::: int
243
Exhibit 8
@Ir EXHIBITL
D e p o ~
D ~ ~ i ~ ~
243

)
Klayman La'v Firm
July 23, 2012
13ILLI?\G STATB!ENT
FOR SERVICES RENDERED to P:unda Barndt. S.un Sewell,
ObumaBullotChalknge.com. Article II Super PAC. and the Constitution A.:tion Fund from June
19, 20l2 :o the pn:sent. including but not limitl!d to research ,md preparation and $ervice of
proce:;s of new complaint for decl;mltory relief; legal research ;111d prepar2tion and filing of
2+ page proposed order with factual and legal citations for Judge Terry Lewis, review of
proposed order of thu Defendants, preparation of second ,ltnended cor:1plaint JIH.I review of
motion to strike and response, preparation for and hearing on leave to file second
comphint before Judge Terry Lewis, review of judge Terry Lcv,;is' di.!cision and strategy
Jiscussions Jnd other communicJtions With clients preparation of memorandum on
how lu appeJl Jirectly Lo Florida Supreme Court, preparation .wd filing of nolice ur <ippeal,
not;ce of t1ling transcript. preparation and riling of opposition to motion to
';tnkE', prep:1r<1tion :1nd dissemmation of two press rclt>ases rpgarding Judge LeWL'i'
decislon ;:u1d notice of appeJI, comrnunications wtth media, <lntl reb ted matters:
37 hours x S!50 pa hour for :-.::lVecd \bhboobian. R7:.m Esq .......... S5,55tl.OO
16.5 hours x SJ95 pL>r hour Larry Klayman, Esq. (reduc<!d from nomtul billing rate ,lt' 5600
per hour) ............................................................................................................................ $6.51 /.50
!tcmized Expenses (A:tachcd) ........................................................................................... S4.\) J7 .05
r vtal "" 16.03-t. 55
243
Exhibit 9
@n
:tfikU

WWW.DEPOBOOK.COM
243
\
f
('m:1il - F,.-d: Rektllion with Klaym:Jn Firm
\
---------- ;.:: or.'ll3rded message --------
;:rom Larry Klayman <leklaymar.(@gmall com>
Date: ihu. Aug 9. 2012 at 3 39 PM
SubJect: Fwd: Retention Agreement with Klayman law Firm
To: 'George J. Mlller" com>, Parre!a Barnett <pamel;;b<>rret@m:;d ::om". Sam
Sewell <sams@bestseifLsa.com>
Cc Naveeo l1ahbcob an
This is what you all agreed to. The 1 SK .vas just a retainer and 'ees
were to bi!l at S395.co per hour. reducea from my crjinary hourly rate
ol 3600 per hour.
ihe series of emails ,,hrch fotowed from you all acKnowledges t1rs
.Jgreement. In addition, when I Jgreed to file SUit Pamela and Geor:;e
:1ssured rre, in tre presence of 'Jiitnesses, :hat I would oe fully paid
:or our work.
fh.3t there is r.o for:r1a! written contract is not ccntrol!ing. Tt-:ere is
:;r:tten ev1cence of our agreem<:mt 1n the form of ema11s and you owe
m::Jr11es under the :egal doc:nn,;s of promssory estoppel. quantum
meruit and unjust enricr.ment. as well as breact1 of contmct. A
c.::mtract can be orol as we11 as >tmtten.
: Nds p'eased :o rear George corrm!l to J.J3ilf1g wtat 1s ct.tstanding. as
'AO WOLid r,opc to OVOid SU:t.
I o;;poke w1th George yesterday, and he IS :o give me today confrrrmtior
:r.o! the bil:od <Jmount 'Nil I ce paid down installmen:s af'\d that at
"agt S 1 ?00 was to be sent today. so. th1s confirms that an
:Jddr!ional $415 00 ;joilars is to ::;e added to tt1e expenses. as I ::>aid
Y.rt 0f rny ;:oock.et what '.'<as cutstundJrg to Transrredia Oro;.;;:>.
Fnnk yc.u for your 1mmedu3te cocpera:ion anc courtesy
243
Exhibit 10
{t) Jr X H I I ~ O
6fl!lj;j_
WWW.DEPOBOOK.COM
243
)
)
)
Lmy Klayman, Faiku Lawyer! Con\VebW:uch P::-tge I of 6
.\ 12 Gauge Won't Save You
Discover What Federal Agent> & The Army Don't Want You To Know
. .' " .-. c AdChotce-a [t:a
:
...
: ::
Larry I<layman, Failed
Lawyer
'NorldNetDaily's favorite lawyer loves filing lawsuits, which lately
have been even more unsuccessful than usual.
By Terry Krepel
Pes ted di912.0 12
Larry Klayman mJde his name as a lawyer by using millions of
dollars in funding from Richard 11ellon Scaife to tile dozens of nuisance
lawsuits :11;ainst the Clinton administration through his group, ,Judicial
Vvatch. (When Klayman tried filing lawsuits against the Bush
aumiuislr.ltion, however, the Con Web buddies who favmed over his anti-
Clinton activism wanted nothing to do with him.) At the same time,
KlJyman was suing hlc; mother.
Klayman left Judicial \Vatch to run for a Senate seJt in Florida, in which he
linishcd seventh in an Republican primary despite (or,
perhaps. because or) an endorsement by WorldNetDaily's Joseph Farah.
Klayman then formed a,Judicial Watch-esque group, Freedom watch,
while Jlso suing Judicial Watch. The bad blood between Klayman and
.Jndicial Watch continues; in a recent column, Klayman complained that a
new book by current Judicial Watch chief Tom Fitton ''chronicles my
;a:hievements at Judicial W;jtch but appears to attribute them to Fitton
himself, who is not a lawyer and never appeared in court to advocate any
<:ase .... Indeed, my name appears nowhere in the book, even in the index.''
Kla;.man, ot course, has intimated legal action Fitton over the
book.
Not only is Klayman a sue-happy lawyer. he's also been
on the defendant end of action as well. Earlier this
year, Klayman was indicted for failure to pay child
support. to 5ay, this Jescended into a legal
morass; an Ohio appellate court noted last month that
Klayman had apparently engaged in ''inappropriate
behavior" with his children-- something he has not
that he "repeatedly invok(ed] his Fifth
http:t I conwebwatch.uipod.comistorieSt20 12/klaymanlawyer.html
Send thlt page to1
Enter Address Here
Send this paget i

j 3HflRE ' ' ; ! .
Ads @ ConWebWatchj
I :
[ 'it 1
Vl0i20l2
243
)
Larry Klnymo.n. Failed La\vyer I Con\Veb\Vatch
Ji W Amendment rights, about whether he inappropriately
Larry Klayman touched the children." .md that "!<la}man would not
0ven answer the simple question regarding what he
tho\lght inappropriate touching was. The court upheld a lower court's
ruling thnt Klayman be ordered to pay $325,000 of his ex-\'lifc's legal costs.
A.nd last November, Klayman was reprimanded by the Florida bar for
taking a $25,000 payment from a woman to represent her in a criminal case
but f::tiling to do any legal work for her. After he was ordered to return
S:;,ooo oi the money as agreed to in mediation, he failed to keep up the
payments. Klayman claimed that his "financial situation continues to be
tlire." (He claims that he has since repaid the money.) Further, Klayman's
license to practice law in Pennsylvania is under ad.Jninistrative
suspension.
tn short, Klayman is a hot mess of a lawyer. Yet he continues to nle lawsuits
--with WND as a major client-- which are swiftly tossed out of court. Let's
look at a few recent cases.
\VND v. White House Col"respondents Association
fn 2010, WNU threw a !lt because the Wnite House Correspondents
, \ssociation wouldn't sell it the number of tickets it demanded in order to
promote Les Kinsolving's nepotistic, WND-published bio (written by
daughter), At tirst. WND tried to intimidate the WHCA into
\t the tickets it wanted-- claiming that it was ''doing the bidding of
Obama administration in to belittle. exclude ;md irreparably
harm a leading Internet news outlet, \VorldNetDaily, which has carried
commentary critical of the president." Then, Klayman and \VND filed a $to
million lawsuit the \VHCA "harm to its business and
Jther relationships because of the WHCA's refusal to accede to its
dt!mands.
One curious about the WND story announcing the lawsuit: lt never
reported in which court the suit was filed. '.Ve've since learned it was the
District of Columbia Superior Court.
,\nother curious That story was pretty much the last anyone heard
about the lawsuit from WND, aside from Klayman's threat to add the
\ Vhite House as a defendant. That's because the suit was dismissed :Umost
immetliately.
to DC Superior Court records (case No. 2mo-CA002364),
Kb}man tiled the case on April13, 2010. On May 3, 2010, the WHCA filed a
motion for dismissal, which was on June 22. The case was slapped
down just over two months a iter its tiling.
insult to injury, the copy ot the order sent to Klayman's otfice was
n:turned was returned to the court bemuse it was ''Not Deliverable as
.\ddresscd, Unable to Forward." No wonder WND didn't want to talk about
:t Jn>more.
h ttp://conwebwatch.tripod.comistoriesi20 12/klaymanlawyer.htm I
Pnge:! of6
The latest from
:onJveb;bf()g
1
WND's Kupellan Ues
About Obama,
Military Voting
WOrlrlNetDally
manag111g ed1tor Oav!d
Kupellan uses an AJg.
9 co!umn to claim that
President Obama's re-
election campaign is
tryll'lg ..
CNS' Trle$ to
Heather An
Archbishop
The Meola fl.esearc:n
Center's oractlce of
1-'eathertrtq .. berating
,Jna stlunnmg
wnservauves who fa1!
:o marcn in total
cckstep ...
NEW ARTtCLe;
Klayman, Failed
Lawyer
'.'/orldNetDa 11y's
f.wonte lawyer !Oves
f:llng lawsiJitS, which
have tlel;!n even
1nore unsuccessful
:nan usual. Read more
>>
\.''' !CN .<tl'fH 1
I '
lmazon.com.l
,..._..., i

243
Lury Klayman, Failed Lawyer 1 ConWcbWatch
Even a year later, W'ND and Klayman didn't want to talk about it. When
ConWcbWatch queried !<layman during his and WND's dogand-pony
show announcing its lawsuit against Esquire as to why he didn't funher
pursue that lawsuit, Klayman brusquely replied: "Well, first of all, we
decided not to pursue that. But the issue here is this case, not that case, so if
you want to relive that case, we'll do that some other time.
WND v. Esquire
\ V'ND was absolutely livid about a :\1ay 2011 Esquire parody blog post
that \VNO is pulling Jerome Corsi's then-newly-released anti
Obama birther book "Wbere's the Birth Certificate?" out of stores because,
to a made-up quote from Farah, "this book has become
problematic, and contains what I now believe to be factual inaccuracies."
L,;st anyone miss the parody aspect, the post also stated that Corsi also
wrote a book called "Capricorn One: NASA, JFK, and the Great 'Moon
Lmding' Cover-Up"-- a reference to the similarly themed movie
.\).lay 18, 2011, \VND article assailed the post as "a completely
fabricated news story" that prompting editor Joseph Farah to descend even
further into conspiracy mode by blaming the Obama White House for it.
1 {ere is an actual quote from Farah: "This has all the of a White
House dirty trick- but, of course, onlv the Nixon administration was
capable of dirty tricks like that, according to our watchdog
rarah seemed to have missed anolher parody aspect of Esquire's post: the
) Farah would never have done so reasonable as to
. ,., \o,ithdraw Corsi's book- there wa!$ birther money to be reaped, after all.
)
/
;.icverthelcss, Farah threatened to sue Esquire. And sue he did, represented
nnce by Klayman. The lawsuit was announced in a June :10, 2011,
show in a rented room at the National Press Club in
\ where participants m the presser outnumbered the reporters .
. \Jso in attendance wt:!re Corsi and self-proclaimed ima)!;e expert :.lara
both of whom spent their time on a tang ental effort to demonstrate
thJt Obama's birth certificate is fake, which had nothing whatsoever to do
,,,th the lawsuit
. \3 hus become all too familiar for Klayman, his case s;ot laughed out of
.:ourt. W!-JD let Klayman rant about it in a June 4 article, declaring the
dismissal "significantly tlawed and intellectually dishonest." Curiously
from the article: the key e\idcnce the used to dismiss the
Ln.,.suit .
. \s the I-uling states, Farah "immediately that the Esquire
trticle was satire-- telling the Daily Caller that the post was a very poorly
parody: --until it became "inconvenient" for him to do so. The
jmh;e added: "Political satire can be, and often is, uncomfortable to its
but that does not render it any less satiric or any less an expression
m a topic of public concern.''
That Klayman refused to address the key substantive part of the ruling while
h ttp://conwebwatch.tripod.com/ storieSJ20 12iklaymanbwyer.html
Page 3 of6
3/10/2012
243
)
L:my Klayman. Failed Lawyer t ConWeb\Vatch
ranting about how horrible the ruling is shows you what kind oflawyer he is
-- rhat is to say, not a good one.
Brndlee Dean v. Rachel :\laddow
A July 26, 2011, WND article by Bob Unruh announced another Klayman
legal venture: suing MSNBC host Rachel )1addow for $50 million on behalf
of a Minnesota 'Preacher named Bradlee Dean. whom he claims :Y1addow
Jcfamed by selectively editing a rant by Dean to suggest that he favors the
execution of gays.
Unruh falsely suggested that ignored a disclaimer by Dean that he
docs not support the killing of gays; in fact. Maddow specifically said
J.tter airing the Dean clip: ":\1r. Br::tdlee with h41o e's later clarified that he
didn't really mean to sanction murder of gay people. He said, 'We have
and will never call for the execution of homose.wals.' Which is nice."
L"nruh, of course, did not disclose his employer's cont1ict of interest by
noting that Klayman is currently representing \VND. He also ignored Dean's
lung history of anti-gay rhetoric (perhaps because W:-1'0 himself is so anh-
:,;ay that its employees believe a ludicrous statement like Dean's claim that
on avera)l;e, [homosexuals] molest 117 people before they're found out" is
'locumented fact); instead. Unruh serves as public relations agent for
13radlce and his ministry, You Can Run But You Cannot Hide International.
Unruh devoted a second article to the lnw:mit the next day, focusing on
Klayman and Dean's claim that was to undercut the
presidential campaign of U.S. Rep. Bachmann. and to do
tbt attacked those with whom she has associated. In fact. only one of the
t'.vo segments that mentioned Dean also mentioned Bachmann, and that
.vas to note that the two would be sharing a stage at a "tea party nominating
nmvcntion."
.\.:;has been a theme, Klayman's lawsuit was essentially laughed out
, i court. You wouldn't know that by the .vay Klayman and his PR at
'. V :'l 0 spun it though;
CnrJh used a July 10 WND article to obfuscate the facts of the dismissal,
1eading instead with Dean and his attorney, Larry Klayman, "asking that the
judge in the case be removed because of her biased comments." It's not unttl
.1rter he rehashes the case in a biased manner favorable to Dean-
'pecifically, the 2oth paragraph-- that Unruh t;ets uround to reporting the
news in Dean's lawsuit: that the judge in question had ordered Dean to
py around S24,ooo in fees to before she would permit
Kh)'man's request to move the case from District of Columbia court to
federal court in order to get around :Yladdow citing the District's anti-
SL\PP laws in her defense.
Cnruh uncritically repeated Dean and Klayman's claim that )<1addow's
",!efense work would be equally applicable in the new in federal
without explaining how a federal court can address legal fees for
.1nothcr lawsuit t1led and v.ithdrawn in another jurisdiction. Also, given that
http://comvc bwatch. tripod.com/storics/20 12/klaymanla\Ai')'er.html
Page 4 of 6
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243
Lmy Klayman. Failed Lawyer I Con Web Watch
Dean and Klayman are admitting they're moving their lawsuit to fedenl
) court specincally to avoid the District's laws, defense
..?' work could not directly be used since a different set of laws \vould apply.
e nruh also uncritie3lly -- and selectively-- repeated Dean's complaints
about the judge's alleged "biased which included the laughable
complaint that the judge "stated in her order that defendants lawyers are
'distinguished."' while not applying that description on Klayman. Unruh
.<ppears not to have considered the concept that Klayman's legal work,
-:specially oflate, is not "distinguished" at or, more to the point, it's
distinguished only by its record of failure. (And we haven't even gotten to
his O\-nl status as a lawbreaker for nfu.sing to pay child support)
Unruh also cited Dean's complaint of the judge's "mockery of !Gayman's
health issues,'' which according lo the affidavit consisted of a broken leg
that prevented him from traveling from California to the District of
Columbia.
1t seems like Dean has a case against l<layman for inadequate (or
incompetent) representation. If Klayman's office is in D.C., v;hy is he living
in California?
lJnruh failed to mention that Dean. in his affidavit, personally attacked the
jndge, calling her a ''woman scorned." fnsulting the judge is hardly the best
. ...-av to successfully :ngue your case -something Uc.ruh seemed to
rccm;nize by not reporting it.
')
.f It's also a si15n of Klayman's apparent incompetence as a lawyer that he
)
thinks Dean's insult is acceptable to enter as evidence. No wonder he can't
"in a case.
Voeltz'\'. Obama
l(layman is the lawyer for Michael Voeltz, a Florida man who issued a le!!;al
to Obama's name appearin11; on the ballot in r1orida because,
to a May 16 \VND article on the lawsuit, 'There is credible
:vl(icnce indica that this electronically produced birth certiticate i3
!ntirely fraudulent or otherwise altered. The article quotes Klayman as
being totally down with the birther conspiracists: "The eligibility of
:ldendant Obama must be dealt with now. Plaintiff Voeltz. and the rest oi
:he electors in the state of Florida, must be assured that if they cast their
mtes for defendant Obama in the general election that their votes will not
be in vain:
:<layman's main argument in the Voeltz case was that Florida's Demoeratic
presidential primary (which wasn't actually held) had "elected and
:wminated" Obama as l:1orida's nominee for president and, thus, he has
been opened up for to his ''eligibility." But as the Obama
Ccnspin<..'Y blog points out, Horida state law considers a primary winner
to be a ''candidate for nomination," not actually nominated. and there is no
di11,ibility requirement in a preference primary, thus giving Klayman no
kt;al basis upon which to sue.
! mp:/ I con webwutch.tripod.corru' s toriest20 12/kla y man lawyer. html
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Larry Klaym:m.Failed L:l.wyerj Ccn\Veb\Vatch
UnsurpriSin!Jly, the judge dismissed lhe case. Also unsurprisingly, WND
) Klayman a pl:ltfonn to complain about it:
J}
" }
/
The decision issued today by Judge Teny Lewis was poorly
reasoned and written," Klayman asserts. "It goes against prior
l1orida Supreme Court precedent in particular, thus making
<)Ur chances on appeal great. .. In any event, Plaintiff :Micheal
Voeltz filed a new complaint today for declaratory relief, which
'.V1JI, in addition to his appeal, now proceed forward. In short,
.ve remain coniidant that if the Florida courts ultimately
Jecide to obey their own election law, we will prevail in the
end."
Specifically, Klayman objected first to Lewis' assertion that
Obama's nomination is a matter for the Democrats' national
dmvention and not subject to Florida Jaw.
He basically said that a pr<'_sidential candidate can never be
nominated under Florida law, ever, and tllat'.s just wrong,''
Klayman said. "He made our appeal relatively easy, because he
tEes in the face of the Florida statute and also a florida
preme Court case. There's nothing on which for him to
,:ome to this conclusion. The law is clear here that Obama was
:wminated ior office.
Despite the judge dismissing the lawsuit with prejudice, Klayman
.mnounced plans to appeal.
. " ..
Klayman has been zero in court for quite some time now. You'd
rhink that would give his dients WND pause regarding his
as a lawyer. Apparently not.
''*
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243
Exhibit 11
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243
Klayman Watch
) The Nation.
)
Click here to retum to the browser-optimized version or' this page.
T:1is .1rticle can be found on the web nt
http://www.thenation.com;docJ20040329/corn
Klayman \Vatch
:,y DAVID CORN
f from the March 29, 2004 issue l
Diu Larry Kln)'man, the conservative lawyer/provocateur who spent much of the 1990s suing Clinton-related
via his Judicial Watch and accusmg the Bill-and-Hillary crowd of vast corruptions. recently try to skirt
..::unpaign-linance law to obtain an illegal million-dollar boost for his back-of-the-pack US Senate campaign in
!;lorida'/ Kl:lyman is litigtous. Newsweek reported in 1998 that he had even sued his mother during a ta.mily spat.
So let's just lay out the facts, Jnd readers can reach their own conclusions.
Some background: Klayman started Judicial Watch in 1994 and became tamous--in a cable TV sort of'.vay--by
riling seemed like thous:trtds of lawsuits against Clintonitcs. II is work (some might call it :;henanigans) was
i'artly underwritten by Richard Mellon Scaife, the right-wing millionaire. And Richard Vif\uerie, the direct-mall
:it an Qf the right, raised money for J.Jdicial Watch. Klayman also represented the rvliami rei atives or' EJ i;in
()oru.alez in a law:;mt the Justice Department, and he involved himself in the Florida recount mess. ln
recent years he expanded his hit list. Judicinl Watch joined the Sierra Club in suing Vice President Cheney for
:ccords of Cheney's energy task force, and it launched a lawsuit against Cheney and Halliburton tbr allegw
tccounting fraud (a :ederal court dismissed the case). But Klayman also sruck to his bread and butter,
r'.!presl!nt:ng Gennifer Flowers, who tiled -1 suit claiming Hillary Clinton had tried to destroy her, and supportmg
.t businessman charged with stock and bank fraud who claimed he secretly made illegal campntgn contnbutions
to Hillary Clinton.
On September 23. Klayman left Jt:dicial Watch, which issued a terse three-sentence statement that could he r:!ad
s1gn that the parting had not bet:n amicable. That day, Klayman announcCIJ he was running iorthc US
l'rom Florida and that he intended to be Hillary Clinton's "worst nightmare." He joined a large ricld of
;{epublicans seeking :his seat. a group that now includes former Housing Secretary Mel :Yiartinez. former US
Bill McCollum, Florida House speaker Johnnie Byrd, tormer US Senator l3ob Smith, State
Senator Daniel Webster and businessman Doug Gallagher. In a recent poll, Klayman was at 4 percent.
ln the lirst three months of Klayman's campaign, he raised $610.555, mostly through direct-mall
Londucted by Vigucrie'3 American Target Advertising, according to Federal Election Commission records. In
'tlis period Kla;ma.1 paid A TA $577.358. That is, the revenue barely covered the direct-mail cost--not good r.ews
:br any And a report prepared in !ate January by AT A noted that the Klayman campatgn had sent out
;lightly more ti1an l million pieces at a CO!Jt of$ 730.315 ond brought in $703,155.
Viguerie -.vas using an assortment of conservative mailing lists, yet Klayman was scortng reasonably well mainly
vi th those from Judicial Watch, according to A TA records. These Juuicial Watch lists, thouJ?h, were several
years old, and mailing lists tend to deteriorate quickly. direct-mail program could not rely on the older
\isis. One obvious answer was to rent Judicial Watch's up-todate lists. Sources familiar with the campaign say
http:/lwww.thenation.com/ducprint.mhtml?i=2C040329&s=com 7.'1 0/2007
243
)
)
:<:layman Watch P:tge 2 of 3
:<layman told campaign workers he had tried that, unsuccessfully. (Tom Fitton, Judicial Watch's currt::nt
president, denies Klayman made such a request.) But in search of a productive mailing list, Klayman, lccording
to ;1 lawsuit tiled against him by a former campaign employee, also came up with an unorthodox remedy.
In December Paul Jensen, that former campaign aide, sued Klayman, charging him with slander. In his
-:ornplaint, Jensen says that he quit the campaign because Klayman would noc pay him and that atler he
threatened to sue Klayman for back puy, Klayman paid him but then told others Jensen had stolen from the
i.:;;.mplign. The complaint :1lso maintains that Klayman-who has culled himself a Jew who believes in Christ
h)ld a Palm Beach Post reporter he was Jewish but informed prominent Christian conscrvutive:J he was a
Christian, and that Klayman instructed Jensen "to lie, if the subject came up, about the fact that Klayman had
recently been divorced from his wife." Another person close to the campaign says Klayman told campaign aides
:o avoid mentioning his divorce and that campaign workers discussed among themselves Klayman's practice of
offering different descriptions of his religious beliefs.
In his complaint, Jensen claims that in September he went with Klayman to a conference in Colorado Springs of
the Council for Nutional Policy, ::tn organization of prominent conservatives. Accordinq to Jensen. four wealthy
con:;ervut1vcs- William Ball Jr., Stuart Epperson, Dick Bott and Rich Bott--were attending the conference, and
Klayman "was prevailing upon [them] to loan one million dollars each to American Target Advertising for its use
to iund a direct-mail campaign to bcnclit Klayman's candidacy."
1 ens en declines to talk about the loan or :mything Klaymanconnected. citing his ongoing case against Klayman,
who has asked a federal court to dismiss Jensen's lawsuit. But with $1 million or more, Vigucrie could test-mml
;arious nght-wing lists and cratt a more ctft:ctive li::Jt for the Klayman campaign,
[ culled Ball, an Indianapolis-based businessman . .md board member of the Center for Scientific Creation. ::md
if Klayrnun hod urged him to lend :S l million to Vi15uerie for use in developing a direct-mail list for
Klayman's ..:ampaign. 8all replied, "Yeah." He said he discussed this with Klayman at the Council for 0/ational
Policy meetmg. He Jdded, ''I've known Richard [Viguerie] for many years. !fl had the funds, l would do it. l'm
:'itill hoping I c;:m do 1t. '' But. Ball said. a recent dispute with a bank had lt:t1 him short of funds. He noted he'd
,;ent Klavmun a check for $600. "It's the best I can Jo at the time;' he said. 1 also reuc.:hed Dick Bott, founder and
of a Christian radio ner.vork. Did Klayman ask him to kick inS 1 million'? "I cannot contirm or deny
tlut," he said. ''I've t;:llked to Larry Kllymon several times, and I think he may have, but I'm involved in my other
projects."
ln 2 letter to Richard Sc:ufc-wntten days atlcr Klayman had lur.ch with him--Klu:;1nan re1erred to a
:oan idea. first he laid out his master plan. "As a senator." he wrote, "l will have considerable powers that I did
t:ot have at Judicial Watch, including the ability to investigate and prosecute in the Senate Hillary Clinton much
like Richard did with the communist spy Alger Hiss .... if [am someday to run tor president. I need the
,;rcdcntiuls to do so; being a senator will provide me with this. If not this year, llillary Clinton obviously will :un
tor the prc:ndcncy in 2008. 1 plan to oppose her, God be willing." Then he matle a pitch: "Dick, once again I need
your hcip to achieve this goul. As explained, I left Judicial Watch without resources and must rely on direct mali
to r:1ise the monies to c:ha!lcm;c my m1llionaire opponents. If you know of someone or some entity that can
:inance the direct mml Jirm, by prov:ding a loan with an l 3 percent return on investment, I wouh.l be most
:;;ratcful." A Scaife spokesperson maintams that Scaife never received this letter. "lfe has not given one dime to
\.lr. Klayman's CiUllpaign,'' she adds, "and in fact he discouraged him from running.
Would it be legal for a Senate candidate to solicit a loan for his or her direct-row! house? I called several lawyers
-.;ho specialize in campalgn law and described the situation to them w:thout mentioning Klaymun's name or the
\ucntities or political affiliations of anyone involved. Joseph Sandler, a termer general counsel to the Democratic
P:1rty, satd, ''1 thmk that it is clearly illegal.'' A Senate candidate, he explained, is allowed to borrow money only
from a bank or from or herself. If a candidate solicits a loan of this sort specitica!ly to help his campaign,
:;.tmilcr said, that would VIOlate federnl campaign law. Contnbutors can only uonate up to $2,000 to a primary
-:ampai g,n. Providing :S 1 mlllion in working capital to n vendor for a campaign could be seen as an in-kind
Jonation that far exceeds the .:52,000 limit. Two other lawyers specializing in election law--both of v;hom asked
http:! /www. thenation. cornldocprint.mh tml'l i-== 2 0040 3 29&s=corn 7110/2007
243
)
Klilyman Watch Page 3 of3
r:ot to be named--shured Sandler's legal opinion. ''This seems like a way to get around the rules," one said. "It
<o;cems like a violation to me.''
How does it seem to Klayman :md Viguerie? Did they nab a millior:dollar loan? Neither man responded to
multiple requests for (,;omment. And by the way, Kl:lymo.n, as of this writing, had not tiled his personal tinancial-
disclosure torm with the Senate. as candidates must do within thirty Llays of entering a Senate race. Failure to
submit this form can result in an S 11,000 penalty. Tim Judicial Watch motto is ''Secause no one is above the
!lw!" Is that the watchword of Klayman's campaign/
http:/iwww.thenaticn.com/docprint.mhtml?i'-"20040329&s"'corn "'II 0/2007
243
Exhibit 12
243
)
Larry Klayman, Conservative Wingnut
Lawyer, Gets Reprimanded By Florida Bar,
Is Broke
By Gus
Published Tue., Nov. 1 2011 at 8:ooAM
\\'hat with all of his insane lawsuits against the Clintons, Facebook,
Rachel Maddow, President Obama, and his own mother,
conservative Florida activist and lawyer Larry Klayman is pretty
damn busy.
Too busy to defend his real clients, apparently. The Florida Bar has
issued a public reprimand of Klayman for taking a $25,000
payment to represent a woman in a high-profile criminal case and
then allegedly failing to, y'know, do any lawyerin'.
)When he was ordered to pay the client back, Klayman missed
/payments, whining in court documents that he's so broke he can't
afford a bankruptcy lawyer.
Allow us to shed a single tear for the man who calls Barack Obama
"mullnh in chief'.
Klayman founded .Judicial.Watch, the conservative organization that filed eighteen lawsuits against the
Clinton administration in the '9os, and recently St}ed Hillary Clinton. Klayman left Judicial Watch and
then, of course sued it. He recently sued Face book for $1 billion for not removing an anti- Israel page,
and represented a homophobic preacher in a slander lawsuit against Rachel Maddow. Oh, yeah, and he
sued his mom.
According to a complaint filed \rith the Florida Bar, Klayman was hired in 2007 by Natalia Humm. a
Daytona Beach v,roman who along with her husband was accused of arranging sham marriages in an
immigration scam. Humm claimed that Klayman didn't provide any legal services for the payment. A
mediator ordered him to return $5,000, but he failed to make timely payments.
In a hill.f.r. to the Florida Bar, Klayman lamented:
)
I have and have had very little funds, as my financial situation continues to be dire. I do
not ovvn any investments or retirement plans and just have a fevv pieces of jewelry and
clothing, a television, a radio, a bed and clothing and shoes. I rent my apartment. The
jewelry is a watch which is of negligible value, and consists of a watch and a ring valued
currently under $2.oo.oo.
243
He added: "I cannot afford bankruptcy counsel, having been asked for a
$sooo.oo retainer which I cannot afford."
vVhen we reached him by phone, Klayman said that he had since made all of the payments. "The issue
)vas the delay in payment," he says, "as I was having financial difficulties."
Florida apparently isn't the first state to declare Klayman a deadbeat lawyer. His bar license in
Pennsylvania is also under "administrative suspension."
Follow ~ l i a m i New Iimes on Face book and Twitter @}JiamiNewTimes.
243
Exhibit 13
fYr

243
December 8, 2012
The good virgin's birther case
By Larry Klayman
No, I'm not 'Miting about a sequel to the Steve Carel! comedy flick "The 40 Year
Old Virgin," or about the even more low-class holiday issue of Playboy
magazine. Believe it or not, this column is about a case 1 filed in Montgomery,
Ala . over the eligibility of Barac!< Hussein Obama, which vvas just decided at the
IO\"ver circuit court level by the Honorable Eugene W. Reese, a liberal Democrat Larry Klayman
judge. The way this suit oos handled by the court is not funny. It is symptomatic
not just of the vvay the judiciary has thus far tried to dodge and deepsix the seriousness of Obama's
ineligibility to be president. but the current state of our highly politicized judiciary in general.
Our complaint, filed on behalf of presidential candidate Virgil H. Goode Jr. and Alabama citizen Hugh
Mclnnish. seeking to force Alabama Secretary of State Beth Chapman to verify that Obama oos eligible
to be placed on the state's presidential ballot- after she told our clients that she mu!d not- v.tas
filed Oct. 12, 2012, with enough time for the court to rule that the state had an affirmative duty to
determine- given the S'M:lrn affidavits from Sheriff Joe Arpaio, his investigator Mike Zullo and
) renov,tned investigative reporter and author Jerome Corsi - vvhether or not Obama is a natural born
cittzen as is required by the U.S. Constitution. As set forth under oath in these affidavits. there is
credible evidence, vvhich was incorporated into the complaint and a simultaneously filed motion for
summary judgment. that Obama's claimed long-form birth certificate. produced by the White House
years after the issue of hrs place of birth was first raised by none other than his 2008 presidential
primary opponent Hillary Clinton, is altered, forged and fraudulent. Thus. Judge Reese had plenty of
!ime before the Nov. 6 presidential election to order the Alabama secretary of state to do her job and
fulfill her oath of office under not just the Alabama Constitution but the U.S. Constitution. Indeed. vhite
.Alabama statutes are silent about this, analogous law in most states requires that election and ballot
challenges are to be given expedited treatment, for obvious reasons.
Under Alabama law. it is clear that the secretary of state has an affirmative duty to verify the eligibility of
those seeking office. An Alabama attorney general's opinion provides, "If the Secretary of State has
knov.iedge gained from an official source arising from the performance of duties prescribed by law, that
a candidate has not met a certifying qualification ... the Secretary of State should not certify the
candidate" [Attorney General's Opinion No. 1998-200]. The attorney general's opinion is not binding
case precedent. Nevertheless, it constitutes an admission by Alabama's chief law-enforcement officer
on behalf of the state that if the secretary of state has kno\,1edge gained from an official source about
a candidate's eligibility, then she "should not" certify the candidate. This should have proven very
persuasive before Judge Reese.
Certainly investigative findings that Obama's birth certificate is likely altered, forged and fraudulent,
contained in the S\\{)rn affidavits of Sheriff Arpaio and his investigators, come from an official
government source. Thus, Secretary of State Beth Chapman had an affirmative duty to determine
Obama's eligibility to be president. It did not take rocket science. therefore, for Judge Reese, given the
attorney's general's opinion, to order that this be done quickly, before the Nov. 6 presidential election.
urms.l4a)ml!Y 1212f'.-8 1/2
243
However. rather than deliberating expeditiously on the pleadings before him. Reese dragged his heels,
eventually noticing up a hearing for a total of only 15 minutes on this case of great national importance,
for Dec. 6, 2012, exactly one month after the NJvember presidential election. He then "graciously" gave
each side only seven and a half minutes to argue. Based on this delay, any reasonable person would
have to conclude that it '.vas simply a pro forma hearing for the court to say it gave the parties an
opportunity to be heard. albeit one month after the election. It \.\laS clear that the hand'M'iting was on the
\Vall. Since I have co-counsel in Montgomery, I then filed a motion to appear at this "meaningless" 15-
minute hearing by telephone. to save money for the clients, as they have a limited budget. The judge
never responded to my motion, and as a result my co-counsel argued our case for seven and a half
minutes!
During the hearing, Judge Reese asked no questions about the facts and the law. He sat there like an
Egyptian sphinx and stated merely that he had read the briefs. And, about one hour after the parties
left the courtroom. the court issued its "well-reasoned" decision. It simply read, incredulously, that the
defendant's motion to dismiss "is GRANTED.''
But Judge Reese's judgment did make one bold finding. In the caption of the judgment, he changes the
name of my client, a presidential candidate, to "Goode Virgin H. Jr." Even if, in jest, the judge's "blonde"
secretary is the culprit, his lack of concern for our clients' and the people of Alabama's rights to an
honest presidential election cannot be seen as a joke. Given the stakes of having Obama re-elected as
president vvithout so much as the secretary of state being ordered to do her duty to first confirm his
eligibility to run for the highest office in the land is a constitutional tragedy. Regrettably, similar
scenarios have thus far played out in dozens of eligibility cases in other states, but never to my
knov.Aedge v.ith the cavalier indifference to the rule of law and defiant if not insulting display by the
liberal Democrat Judge Reese.
As I have written many times before in this \-.eekly column. I am saddened and fearful that the state of
) our judiciary, 'hhich largely protects establishment interests over the rights of ''We the People," has so
,./
deteriorated that v.te no longer have any branch of government that will hear our grievances. We are
236 years removed from 1776. but the situation
1
Ne find ourselves in today remains unchanged. As our
French allies during the Revolutionary War V.{)Uid put it, "The more things change the more they remain
the same."
And now. to not only the Alabama Supreme Court- 'Nhose chief justice thankfully Vvill soon be the
courageous Ten Commandments judge, Roy Moore- but to the barricades as '..veil!
'9 Larry Klayman
The views expressed by RenewAmerica columnists are their own and do not
necessarily reflect the position of RenewAmerica or its affiliates.
(See RenewAmerica's nublishing standards.)

243
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cktimim: lint the: n::cd to r".li;< P:\POO in
;1:: llh' cas,::, in lJpriola anJ C.llifnrni.tnccd to b .. ' tiled within a

1vcd . llc.!d l,r, th:tl it .v;h :1 hare! the\ \Holt: it i:; nn;. n
iiral:y Oh:nru-. tc:nnllll't their ntiil.:h,

l: t'dr: ;1fmy tirdeo;; \q:rk in !lk' prn,t.:'\, <llid 1!1 iite ltuthing liln! hy Larry Klaynwn. !tis not clcM
h;tppcnnl to ;J!Int'th !1Hrtty \hltl Lli:,ed, v;j,, )!l't il.
ivls. !{u!'ilq lKiually advii>t::d tnt: that Larry Kl;tyman i; fi>JI linn-..:d Ill Ctliti1m:a, :;h..: tnh! me that he no lnngcr
works with the W:1tch and that dPmr:; bJP\\ ahqu I itig;l!i('!l in Ofli,, wllt:rc he w:t'i c,nvictvd jll:\(
re,;cntlty nfnut paying lnrge amount in child supporL She provided;\ Jill ,,fP!her inf<mn:Hinn. I will rub!ish only.
wlwt j..; u pnhlic rct:nr,J. I am not puhJi.:;iling ;my!hin!!. tll:1l Wl in public rcrNd.
l.arry kJ;:yman. (>0, or Lo; ('ali l(lrtJia. intlkt:d t lll t,\ 0 Ct!lllll:i of uimin.tl 1101\-Sllppon. I k owe:;
l. 76 fN his !\Yo children ;t
1
,;.cs 1 l and lL '1\'.n hc:trinl,; \H'l'l' lwld in Doi!Jc;til Helation'> C1lmt hclween :;or;<;
and :n I 0. Tlw lu'd volnntnry pn"rm:nt \'. >h mndc nn .\tJ;;thl ;o, '0 ll, in th<: annP:nt of S \.1111.2(1. :\rr:tignmt:ttl i';
<:cllithtkd for J'dmtaJy 7. 2.012.
2!21 /201.\
243
\ly s presentation to CCIR npdafc on uttide:2Sttpcd' :\C-I.any Klayman $25Jl. .. Pag<: 3 of 12
hn p- i\V \\ \\ .pul i! i(H lll H .\'f tJn:cul1l'l \1 t:\.t:tti>) i d L:nH H 1 \tflt .: \.' l tl H !H )'.1
,)h:HlM !11 >rid::-2.1 iln: I
l \V!\\', )'l'lllllitht wum t\1 r,;,ld lhh ;uir (h:lowJ tikd K:1\ 111:ttL. i'r0m tJ1i. suit '.v:1s iikd ;1t2:1insl
lle lias nnt l:omm:d hi:; p!inni'c to p:1y ktd; 1\IJ,It th: court ordcrd. tlHugh it"";''
rw:H the '::25,000 he was trw;ted 1\'ith. I \\tHJfd le 11nrncd t.u, it' I had dnnall'd money U> 1:1is nun
UH!Hf OJ FLORID!\
Ill F FI.OIUDA BAR, "upr:tlW CPw ( c':t-i('
<'n111phinant. -.:. ;.Jo .. :o II-70.(J)! ( 1 l :\)
Lr\H I< Y l:.t.UO l !.!\ YM:\N,
Rc:p\llt\l<:JlL
cm.ll'l XIN 1
3. ( ln nr about ! I, 20fl7, :-;;nalia! lun:lll ( .. ! !tnmn"i tiled ;traiH<.t 'L1rry
l<laym:tll) that he: had !t:td L:ikd til provi<h: in f:.:r ;llkr Jw p.ti,J him a $2".000
n:t.til>t'f,
Ln p:.'-'1" "i'\', 11, i'id;liYll. o;yi! ll V \ ll 1;\11 ::M I 1.11; f I Jl -: \( . I \ il \V ;()!J.J!t; II <:<;"?SF(( if tl11
'i.! lll-'::-lo220
I ;,(>1 ,tll c-n<dil rrnm l'dllH:hi llam.:tl t!!l.:d: "Lmy I-.;,;v:run ,iid ll<'l ;:,1111:mlv ids rd;tin,:r". \VIlcn fhrncft
tll;\l did nut f:d ncady his r..:uim:r. \t \hilt he ;(HlH.'thiJ:g. ll.1rnra did nl't dhclns,-, wh!\t
di.i eeL Wht dnt" it rn,;w? ih:cnrding !<l I he .(llit'it;lliPn ,,., :: p:llk nt'bi!'l'{'/'i 1111hi; all (lf
lf''i').:ns sn!iritillt; ;, wr:d ,,r'S::'.OOO. t<nh,!\ Ll't'l'.':. h.m >nlwli ,lid r::i::e .
. \dditin:wlly, tbrnctt ,:L1im;, th.tf :-L<.: .tnd r11ilk1 ;::\: tHl ii<fJ:cr .-.. :mn:t..:d wit!t the <trlll:k2:.upc![lilc',
ih:W.;vcr the ;\rtkh:.>;llp(rp:t<.: :IIHI;nJi, it:uinn l(r don;ttiPJI' j;,: :rr:irk.?sllpt:rp.l<: i' luc;Hcd :tllhc: lop oi'thc hlu;,t.
( whtdl is adrninblt'!Td b) lbrnd; ::lid 1 ih.' link
ittlp:<lw,xw.art!::uper)ld(',COm/11ori<bh;!ll<;.t.hlm( ;:UUJl :lrliclc. Tile l'J)i' illld St.Tl'<:nshn\ .tfl.: a! the \11p or
the Jll\!1.'
.. r,ut 11<\lri) lw; c:lll he $1 :'.000 nt!l "'t' $25,(HHl, II GHJ \1d: l 0.000. Bnltum line', n.-1bod;. flo.v nwdt
l:J;;::n:an ;:cnully i;-;. wLy '>l<,s h,rnid anytldu;:. if !H.: did Jat file tihln11 s11it-;, k: wa> :>Uj'JW"':d
l''
Lila l rlt .wl'-illail (rom Tony Dolz, who is not''" the hu:ud lth.: t\rtirk:?Sitpcrp:lc, hut >.vhl i. in with n
1111mbc-r ni'tht' Ln:nd <lt'this PAC'. \\ho <!:lied, !it:ll l:L' lud a di,cu;;,iPtl \\ith (ieug': \ldkr, 1\lli! i' (lil
h:trd of11n: :\Hiclt2sllp('rp.Jr, .vlm runs a hiP;: OhamalLltlnJUwlknec tngl'lhl'r 1:i1lt flan-.ctt. :\nnrding tu lkol/,
\lilkr .:;nd, tbt Klayman \\d:; not :m;, thin(',.
I l]iH:;tion is: \\ h> is l) ing? \\'as Kl:1yn1;m p;lid nr nnt'i l!.hc 11 paid. thlill it.: to rcfw:d lw
di! nnt file Ia\\' :;nit:; !w was s\!j'flllscd tu. If the mm,; nnd did nor p:l\ 1\l:tym:;n, \11,.
nc:ed to r . fifl,d the rnon:y lu tlw dHH.lh. pn::::, til:11 \\;t; j,, .. w:d hy ,\ni..:h:2St!jh:rpiic Pll h:hruary !0,
2012 clc:ll i} stated. that tlh: d<HHJI'3 an a;kLI !O dmi<lk s::s.noo fo lW, Larry K laymall, that thty h:!\"C !){; h\lllr;i $)
raist tlti:. l<ll'g\.' 'i;Jill or fllllllt.')'. llw urlick al.;..$ th:ll !h;.: 1.1\V :;uih are !o (),: likd wilhill I Vit:Ck. I! b
nnw nr 11.'\t:r(,;,;,: th.: ltrtick So. there \"ere d<:M thi;; pad, ol blo;:gcrs \olkiting from tl1c
pllblic a l:lq:(: s11m :.pccilicaily to pay ;1Hom<.:y l.:my KLt) man S25JlO() ltl \ilr 2 !nw alib in FL and CA
wi1hin w.:,:k, hy Ftbm:11y 12. 1 hrse law <;llit;:; never tiled and th..: pnbl ic s!Hlldd h? reftHhkd all of rlw
mnn,:y that w:h dnn;Hed lill' this purp<Lc. ,\JI ofth0 b!nn,n, who ran this 11eed to pnwidc
;H:tnwHing for tlw pohlk lluw mw.:!t ntnlll'Y did liH'.\ ill total and where did !hi" nHmey gn. donPI''
2!21 120 I
243
tvfy ye:>tcrdnv's prcsr;ntation io Ct'IR :md upd;ne lllt ;ulidc2SupcrPACLan: l<laynHHl S25.0 ... 4 of 12
can H'!Jorl ihb to their I li1trid '\ttnmcy,. If tll: public thmntcd ftr \pu.:ific ruq1lh\; :Htd ,Ji;! nut
1
ntl:e hT;dit, the
pnhlic 1\JS ddbudcd and thi'> i:; a crimin:tltmlkr. [\tpl.: IH'IH tn pn.wn !i>r thillf> !if,,. ill:;!
;, l\;1h ruB, ORY!t nr \I ltt!n:wa!iun, th:!l Bnh
ncho11 mq,:lll h: a p\l.'ltdr.mym Jill 1ichard <.iarotllk. but! i\llt rHl :;wei
l. (In q.;c \ Iiiier nm!; hl,lg ( lhamallni lol( tngcthn .\ itl1 l';utid:i lhmctt (:tl><ll!c'l' tl'r ,,!:ttl:.!, tl,;\1
l';mlCL! H::ntdt p; on tile lo:u d 1 nsb':ld of Cc, 1r<: \li !ln. l ,au n t .ure about !tnt l
:\d .1!" ;>cop!.: tn r<!fttml the <Ill o!'tilc: muncy, ti-n I;!\\ t\nt
lo h: iikd hy L11 ry 1.;.1aym::n by 111<..: h;hru.u:-: l '!, 20 l.: dt:.rdiitw, t:,uc;e f;m llil '\ er:.' n.:\ er :lbl. The
p11hlic ttc\n g"l tl1;; b<:11\::it ol'the wlut riley p:;i.ll(lc.
is !lie \\hy! that ify<:l w:olt ln>ii:L:th'lo lih: work oL! ij'n;ilic" atl!.,mcy, dnn:ne directly
,1-Pil .\ lld .. t:inncy fJliHg. \Vhln id \)( hlo;:gcr'\. thdt :1l(qh,'j' j<\ vning
t; :,\pcnas,) tHI h:t\'e no \V11l't\' tht .tre
\ to" kly y,:,tenlny's lt.l CCl [{ :wd upd<lli: 011 :wti.: k?SI!pcri',\C f .;nT;; Kfa) m:m s::s,ooo
nu:dtttit,fl!n !(1r l:nv an:dr""
I. ! !tntdk'i Coup
Fehm11y ?.Jrd. ?Jil2 7:20 .1m
l wa' inli:dly cxcih:d nfH,tl! I .drTy amllwlpcd the n:\V\ ahntlt ltilll In i-'" \ ir;d \.,,J\\ ! ;nn wu1dcn1:
1
;
:dIIU\ him :Hid hi; tn1e motive; mit:in ih'.
! f'lnreth'c'
f\:hntar: 2.'lrd. 201:: !;i pm
1 :-;mdkd a r:H from the get-gn. !(>r S?.\O!JO iPr 2 !.tll:>lliL '<tl11n1kd W;ly ntH oi'llh: hillp:Hk 1<1 tnc, so I
did nnt bite. Sl.'t.'lllcd like an ;ltfempt to scnm nn :h: h1ck; of pctlrk \I';HJting to Obama, and
Jhlthing rnnrc. (ilml Oriy s!ttys n11 top of like ll!i!> Ccr u:;. W! !Fi{i: DOES SillS FIND !'liE THvlE','! 'l ;dk
,Ji,ut:t multita:-king. l!ltinl; Ody the (,ltH.'GIIllfllu: as ''<.'il
1
J. l'llillip F.
27th. 2012 \tl (j).J illll
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J11! p;i.\V\\ \V .nrf Vb i I /<.:!'(!.tOtn!'!n :; ] 1 r17 2/2!/2013
243
Oh:una's mlmini>tratilln is doing the :>nllh.' to Ody \hey did {.u;d M<.: :>till doing) tP Dr Jndy \\'nod
"\Vher\' did tlw r;o". !hey di<k n lii!O !hlll\''il inlen!ion" dw.\11 ;\ hi!i aml into lh.;
;rnd :may fnHll the rtillin t:n:.et Dt Orly T.1il1 11w l!nc:.-.t then:
-L >, f..'tt_l,\ ( "-,, ":'Jt "''.itt!\ H.t.:llh\ { :;;,h\ \\' h'"',,
t ;tndk';_li;rl \r,nh\ t )niiln:.l!H\ ';cnlhl ( ::ll.li.':.' H:' ., . :.t ... '<;.,:.: ,, l'r..,l;
,;:l_.!in.;,fl\l:'t .. t ;1ndhs. < Jr11
April <Jrh, 201:: ll :<Ia prn
Suillllll CorrmH;nt
. URGENT! SIGN TI-llS PETITION.
?f2.l,21l I:;
243
My yesterday\ preseniation to CC!R and update un artklc::SIIpvrPACLmy Klnynwn $25.0 ... Pag;; 6 nf 12
fnunndLit::
lnVt::-:t.ltFIHnn '-)f DrJf:d'!.
()h:ltH(, -u usn tfrurn HL}
;:nil ;, I; T '!JlH! ll 'A';;,;
Ifyou '\vould likt
to advertize here,
please cnll
9ii9-6SJ -5,111 .
. Offidai "tV<'bsi1c for Orl:v Taitz for U.S. Senate 2012
Official Facebool{
htt p:!iW\\'\V.nrl yta :12077
243
!\ly yeslcrdny's prc:...:ntatinn to CCIR and updntc nn <lrtil'!e!Supr:rP.\C-Lnn)' Klnym;u1 $25/L Pag,:.: 7 of
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IIViPOirfANT NO'flCES --PLEASE READ!
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l1istnric tc:,tinwny in ;.p l, wller, c.' idcnc': wa: prnvid1:d sluwill[! ( )b:wu H;i,lg ;l ii11r..cd birth ec.rtii!cah.: an,: ,t
stolen :;0cbl S\'CUri:y ntmlher. !he DV!h arc 111 a hc;nild\d ca:;c with p1:r::onal
from alfomey Dr. Orly T;!ilz .1>22. :>O c:tctl ! S25fJ l'nr ;hipping and handling. ------.-To order thct..' DVDs,
donal\: S25.01) by crrdi; card on the \\dnit..: .. and email crly.LJiWiJ]gmai!.com with you nunh:
and C1r ;<:nd a \:2\00 d1ccL w\tL) (1\lf n:unc ;md addrt:.; 111: Oily Tai\1. for US S.:natc :20!2, 2'Jil3'J
Snnta i'vli!l'fari!:l <.te 100, V:\ '<'(,lli<
TV1 y RSS Feed
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Vn1c lk Orly T:dtz for I',S, StlLllt 2012 in C.\
243
ly yeskrday ':; !o CCIR ;tnd update flit ;llt idc.2Sup,rl 'i\C Larry Klayman $25.0 ... 9 nl 12
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Exhibit 15
243
artkh:21cgal fund umll urry Klaymun i Dr. Orly Taitz, Fsquire Page I of 12
. ll:uad; Otnm" iil tll'rhb ,:1 dt" Dkl::;;: di :-.;lticc 1 Ud:JUI: :1Jz:J

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Defend Our Freedoms 29ti.39 Santa :VJargarHa Pkwy, stc 100, R:ntt:ho Santa
Margarita CA, 92688- Copyright 2010
\Vorld's Leading ()barna Eligibilitv \Veb Site
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243
regarding artick21egal i\md nnd Larry Klayman 1 Dr. Orly Taitz. Esquire
t ::-,, ,!t:'<,J-..".
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Page2 of !2
fund and Lartv
I(Iavnutn
2. y1.11J lhat..".l ;;;;;;nil! p::r:wir;,;z: i11 ,,.,:.;,,in (';,iii'nr;:i: wmktn;:. <.Aith my :o!legta.. whcl is in
(';dit<nni;i"
I pos!l'J an t>y :\rf.iclc2sup.:rpc. which th.lt l.arr) Klayman will he paid $15,000 to lwndle 2
cases: <lllC in Florida and om: in Cal!flnnia on hd1:df n!' lbmct1, :md others. T!w advcrt!asem;:nt did llot
state, !h:.it annn1cy Klaym:m tog.:ther wl!h :mu!ho:r :li!Prncy licensl:d in ( 'n!lllm1ia 1\ ill those i.licnts,
provided that the judge will grant .10orn.:y Kl:tym.1n pn1 ha,: vice:, right for an out of state atwrncy to
represent clients in the ul Cnlil(m1iit with <I spccifk California alt,Jrney.
Thc adv.:rtiscmcnt sl.ltd that :lttHne) l.il!Tl} Klayman .v1l1 be.: cOl!ihd fnr Barnett. Nocncn and oth.:rs. l believe
others arc Wilmolt, Turner, Dnl;, :v!ilh:r. l bel:t:n: then: wt:re ,., }X'(lpk in this which was fih:d prose so br.(it
w;1s fikd \Vitl11Hl1 an attnrney ). ! \Hntc :1 true :tnd C(lrJt:<.:t :hat Larry Klayman in !he state
of California.
!l'in th.:: IIJtun: Arti<:k2 kgul 11md wi!lllin; ,,hob in th, ,;tate oi'Calif(mlia and
will allow \!r. Klayman tu he ;t trrt;.elili.T with the :Htumr.:y, who is liccmd in Culifomia, than Mr.
Klayman Ci\11 be a h(Jwcver this h) pothet:caL which may ur ntJy not happen.
JWC00014
http://www.orlytait;.esq.wm''
1
p"J2l69 2/21<:?01.1
243
Clarifkation regarding artklc2kgal fund and Larry Kl<tyman I Dr. Orly Taitz, Esquire
Page 3 of 12
stal!:m>::nl. which w:l'> made, w:h t:lrn:c:. :\dveil!Wttment statt:d. that he \1.-i!l bc a nnmsel. thP.>t.:
individuals, S(t pt:t>ple that lh: i:> i11 California. l wrote a statcnwnt. that lt.: is not in
Cn1ilorllia.
lN I liE SUPRI:rv1E COUH l OF !'LOlUil:\
r!lh FLOIUDA BAH. Supn:rw: Court t';t::':
No.
CumplainmH, 20! l-70.62: ( l l /\\
LARRY H.Ll<JT KLt\ Y\iAN,
Respond..:nt
CO\IPLAI!'H
3 (hl or about II .. '111
7
l !u;tll!l <"iluauH"J lrkd a e:rievann: Rc:;pondcnt (L:rry
Kbymaa) <dk12in;.; that lw lvd b,l f:tik<J t,, i'l"'ld<: in h::r criminal case :titer she paid him aS? S.OO\J

Lup:, \\'A\1 .:: Iii\.\\)\.\\\' \1h>. \c'l :l.lllJ' . \! 1 VI! w :td!>til11Ull! {lJ;n;xz:"'l!l! I .
SFILE/21<,220 l2.PDF
1. 1 rl!:ld the i\;<,t po:.l I in t\1 \lr "'l(J 1 tLll there W:t'i an error. J wrmc. !lut \:L
Rnf!ky str;1,:,J t!1<d \1r. Kla;;;n;,:; \U:; ju;! n.:cl'nti: l:unvic:ic:d <l'non p:lyl!H:nt of child supptwt.lhe link and the:
i[ liLit \\,h \:1 ,;, J. ofc:ri:nlna! that he ov.;es $7k)-\6L76 and
nrrignmcr.t \\X' sc:lwdukd ik l 7 . .::or: "u. 1v"' :m trror. \1r. Klayrnan was indicted in the s!ulc ,,r
Ohio on two O!tmts of :LJtl>upp"lr',, f$ w:1s not con\'ii;tcd :-ct. I am making this C<)fl'.:ctiun. Ms. Rut'lky
made an error. it W<E also ;.d r in th:: I .:hmary 2 ). 20! 2 w1idc, tl5 I posh:d the link righr undL:rncath and the
link that he \\ ;n indirltd and The :1rticle was publ hllcd just a cot,ple uf dnys ngn,
nn Febwaty 2 3. 201 2 and l ,,,rrt:l't;.:d il h:bnu:;r 26. 20 i 1.
l.arry Klayman, 60, $f I ih ,\ngck,. \. :dil;;m:::. w:h indict<.:d nnlwn l2l c;Hl!11S 0! lle
$7R,S6l.76 l(r his{\\ r> children :lJ..e:, , l I L J v;crc itctd in Domestic Cmlt'l between 200IJ
and 20 J 0. The hs! voluntrw; p:1y11 ,,m >\:v .. m .. lltl JO. ll. in !h.: :Hn<l\.l!\1 of' 1,0 IL2(>. ;\ rr-al,;nment h.
schcdukd for Fdntwry 7, 20 I:'
tlilll..:ii.'!;>\','W,,[
1
'-],)jt\!;-::tj!grtlll_L<c:ll' \:UJ! <::llh"l!llL 2 i?'l'l1-h, 1\...10:: <kill<
1
\'1 :11 liJc-.. ld kllto\'l>lliC<'iH illd;!.dllh! ..
obam:1-f11'rich.:. hun l
5. In connection v.ith :\nick:?. leba! f,mJ. 1 nuJc a cnrn.::.:t statl'mcm. '!he advcrtbcment by tlle t\rtkh: 2 ::.upl'l'Jlilt:
strttcd, thal $2:",1)00 was nc(:dcd to pay attortlt'Y l.any K!aynwnt within 96 ;o that 2 Jaws11it:> t:ould he filed
within I week, xhich w:1, supjll;.;d I< h: l'y Fchnwy 17th Tho'>>! lav.; s11ih not tiled by attonw) I ;wry
Klayman :.111d l a5kcd qtR',;ti<;n: \\ha: happ.:m::d'? W<L'i a!lorrl'J)' Kl:tyman paid or nm? Within a day or t\\()
l poo!t.:d an update t'niil> :Vliller. wh.l :-;utcd, that a!lmney Kiayman Wa$ n!Jt pllld, because the Ariicle 21egal
fund could not mise 525,000 reairH.T,!dcpositl as requested hy attorney Klayman.
At this poilll I SU!:gestcd. th:lt if 1l1CI1lbers nf !he ;JIIblic dnn:Hcd for i1 particular purpose or paying il attorrte)
to file specific l.tw by a specific ,h,>;:diitll:. tho.k donor.' .ihnJ!d be rcfunckd.
hltp://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p -o3:2l 69
JV'/OOC015
2/21!20!3
243
.Clari!lcation regarding nrtick2lcgat fund and Lurry K l<Jyman I Dr. Orly !'ail'/. Es4uirc Page -l of 12
fode,d, i\rli..:k2f;Hp\:rpac puhlhlll:d on their '-'t:b tkn :-1 rerum! wa; o(t'\!rt'd 111 the donors, \Vhich onlv cont1nn:>,
thilt I was corn:ct.
l, ;tlsu, related tu the of my \H"b 'itt. that Ktording to c\rtkk:'Supcrpac, they deal only witll education and
pmmoting undcrstnnding of the i1llic!v c)r the !;(Hhtilution. They 'ltntint; th:lt lht: anil.:lc2h::gal nn:J is a
separate
n. who runs :\rtidc 2 !<.:gal fimd'.' lbw m;tny people nm ,\rticlc2 kgal fund'! Wlnt arc their names?
b. What is ;\rtic!t:2 kgal ftmJ'? l:; it a not for J'roiit corporation') is it rcgisH:rcd with a Secretary of Stall::? !n what
S[:lfe'f
d. i' then: a bank acnmtH under name :\rt.. ld kga) Hmd .' \Vim owns this b;u:k ncc<>unt'.' Who an: tht:
\VLo Lht:l:k\ rruln dh: ::: legal LHHi'!
1: bow much lllOt:cy di,j iq:ti (und p;t:. Which ;Jt1('!'11C/'; did they pay? I low nHIGh di.i each
..Ht<Jnle.y gtt?
g. Who is ul:rm:nciy rcsponsih!t: f(H tln.: ul' :11wrncys (ct>! I r ;:n iittom;.:y demdwls :1 reraincr \deposit) of
$!0,000 or $25,000, and til<:: Articlt: 2 kga. luuJ coi:t:-..:tcd n11ly $:'.0(;0. who is \:lppo:>t:d tn pay the: dil'fi:n:nce: the
plaintiff ()f r'\rtk!c l::gaJ :und')
L Typic:-illy t(:.r J rct;lin::r; dql,,:,it) dLJ\1 tih::ir hnuny fees from thh <.kpo,it. What imurly wa;,
Arlic!c !cg<d fund paying the ;tttnrrc:-s?
! .Ill th;; and! wn <hkinc l h,,p .. lh;ll all tlw answers will be provided by the
indlviduab, who Mt: d<)ing llltsin.;ss the: tlat1li; aniclc2 fund ::ncl it should !he whok cm::rova:;y,
Comments
I.
February 2(Jih, 2012 ra; <.HS pn:
On the 23rd ihrndt wa; !btcd a memhc:r nt'tht: supcrp:1c board:
"!len: an: th.: list;;d i\nidc ll Super Pi\(' B\hlrd

l'amcla 1.3:!rnctt. Richard (Rich) (iamuttc, Geoq_;,: \1il!cr, (;ary Wilmott, IIden Tunscy"
When J their site yc:,l\:rJ;:y nnd w,lay Pamela !irtmctt's name W<JS no longer listed.
t\1y initial pusitivc n:action to th.:ir site was due lirst tu Carl Swf.:nsson's cndorscment
1
bolstered by Pamda's
imohenwnt. liowc .. :er, that has br.:cn nullilicd by Pamela'$ appar-:nt departure. and the apparent gro5s
mishandling of their relar:on ... hip "' 1tll Klaym;;n and their proposed Fhlrid:l ;md Califurniu initiativ<:s.
NJO::l0016
321 (,If
2!21/20 13
243
.Clarifkatiun regarding artidc2lt.:gal i'Lmd and Larry Klayman i Dr. Orly TaitL. Esquire Page S of 12
Carl is still dQing work in Cicorgia, but since lle nor .tny(m\! dst: appnrcntl)' can find tht:: intcrcsi
nr time to provide an Hpdak to what is soing ''ll with Klayman tb: pwpuscr! lcga! IKiiviti..::-. IK was
\nvolved \\ith -I didn't e>ee the update y<u rd'cm:d !o 1:or:cerning rcfunlh I rcnll) quc>tion their true
nwtiw1tion audfor dlility.
! dn nol understand or' eligibility b,wc ww::wd yt)LL fh: carlicd
i Wil' on W;llt Fritz!:llrick 's ;ire. JagJ luntcr, a long \'thile ngo where he criticicd
you In what J 1\H)k W<H a drunken nut:bk. l th:kted wy browser's tooknmrk (or his site at !hill time. With
everything thnt ha[lp<!ncd Wtlh him since. I have motk:nnd my npiniPn 'It k;tst to the rnint rhatl fccl hl' b
genuine in lli::.low !(H' tl1is country and our he mn:;t certainly p.lid his dtws. wm;dcteJ
i(Cnd's ::ttitmk towan.b you hns l(l du .,,jth hi.s n.:btiomhip witil Walt. CC!Llin!y
1;oing on there ;:m! I it cnu!d ain.:d :md ..;ortcd ntH. bec;lll'il' illls anH11t' thn;;c who an: cHI thi:
si(l\: bt:nC'liis 1111 nn..: bw our tnerni,;s.
a Reply
Fm:1il :\dJn.::-,s(n::quircd)
Webs ill:
Submit Comment
. PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION.
J'NOOC017
htt p:l/www .orlytailzcsq (:)9 :!i2J /20 !3
243
.Clarificntion rtgMding attick2icgal furul and L:my Klayman [Dr. Orly Tuitz.,
LnnH:(Hate
oi ollrdCk
U',;rJ of fOt\'jC(t lD::
Jid :r c:1 :;stJ whicli wa;;
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_C!ariiication rcgnrding articlc2lcgol ti.md cmd Lnrry Klayrnan! Dr. Orly Taitz, Esquire
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historic tc:;timony in NH, where ...:vidence was pmvi(kJ :>!lo,\ ing Ohm:.t usilib! a !orgcd birth cc:rtiticate and a
:;tol::n oocial :;c:curlty omnber. The DVDs in a beautiful ummemor;ltivc c1se with personal autographs
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Clurit1cation rtgmding m1ick2lcgal funJ and Larry Klayman i Dr. Or!y Taltr..

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.Claritication regarding article2!cgal fund anti L<lrry Klayman 1 Dr. Orly Tailz, Esquire
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.Cbriiication n:garding article21cgal 1\tnd and Larry Klayman; Dr. Orly l'aitz. Esquire
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.Clurilication urtlclc2kgal fund and Larry Klayman I Dr. Orly Taitl, Esquire
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Klayman V Judicial Watch FLSD 1:13-cv-20610 127 - 1

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Klayman V Judicial Watch FLSD 1:13-cv-20610 127 - 1

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EXHIBIT 1

Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 1 of

Case 1:13-cv-20610-CMA Document 127-1 Entered on FLSD Docket 05/27/2014 Page 2 of

/r n "in/ t:;, '.!tl

,filtll' ,i U K' .'d th.;ll

;1:: llh' cas,::, in lJpriola anJ C.llifnrni.tnccd to b .. ' tiled within a

iiral:y Oh:nru-. tc:nnllll't their ntiil.:h,

i') tl:"' '"WI! H

,)u_-.:J tmd 'IH'dl <i'AAII h-'<d.

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