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Is Iran dropping Russia for Turkey? Latest from comment is free

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As Ayatollah Khamenei sidles up to Recep Tayyip Erdogan, he
could learn from Turkey's leader about balancing his alliances Digg it Most viewed Latest Most commented

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1. Dr Brooke Magnanti says she enjoyed her

Meir Javedanfar
life as Belle de Jour
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 17 November 2009 15.00 GMT
larger | smaller 2. The one thing depleting faster than oil is
the credibility of those measuring it |
George Monbiot
World news
The famous Chinese strategist, Sun Tzu, wrote in his book, The Art of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei · 3. Charlie Brooker | Christmas is the
War: "If an enemy has alliances, the problem is grave and the enemy's Iran · Turkey · Russia · season of awful adverts
position strong; if he has no alliances, the problem is minor and the US foreign policy · Middle
East 4. Hey, preacher – leave those kids alone |
enemy's position weak." Ariane Sherine

Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, is currently witnessing More comment 5. Newsflash: Obama not Satan after all |
Michael Tomasky
how the US, which he sees as the enemy for his nuclear ambitions, is
More from Comment is More top stories
working hard on building alliances, including with Russia. Khamenei is free on
not happy.
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So much so that Iran recently cancelled a deal with Russia to launch its Ayatollah Ali Khamenei ·
Iran · Turkey · Russia · Conventional wisdom won't save the economy
communication satellite, and turned to Italy instead. This is in addition to
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recent complaints from Tehran regarding delays from Russia in the East Ed Balls's magic wand can't fix education
delivery of the S-300 anti-aircraft system. Until recently, Tehran kept its Praying for Palin-Beck 2012
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The Iranian government has decided to take the initiative and to look for Last 24 hours
a new partner to replace the Russians. Judging by the recent flurry of 31 Jul 2009
Truth and reconciliation 1. Hey, preacher – leave those kids alone |
visits between Tehran and Ankara, it seems that Khamenei has found a for Iran | Open letter Ariane Sherine (824 comments)
willing partner in Turkey.
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Unlike Russia, Turkey does not have a veto in the UN security council. Martin Amis is wrong life as Belle de Jour (796)
about Iran | Arshin Adib-
However, its stock in the Middle East and the Islamic world is certainly 3. Why I turned from red to Green | Beatrix
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rising. Its prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, is being seen more and Campbell (313)
more as a credible defender of Islamic and Arab issues. Many people on 20 Jul 2009
Mir Hossein Mousavi 4. Enough hand-wringing on prostitution |
the Arab street respect his leadership, as he was elected in a genuinely Belinda Webb (226)
urges Iran to release all
democratic elections. The same can not be said about Egypt's president, election protesters
Hosni Mubarak, or King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who received their 5. Antisemitism and the reported world |
Jonathan Boyd (214)
posts undemocratically.

Erdogan's relations with the US and the EU also count in his favour.
Although he has recently been getting closer to his Muslim and Arab
regional neighbours, he has not severed his ties with the west, but is Bestsellers from the Guardian shop
masterfully playing both sides. His relations with the US are also not
Mondaine Swiss
based on Turkey's weaknesses. On one occasion, he resisted US
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$20bn loan guarantees, because he did not find the agreement suitable. The design classic.
And his verbal attacks on Israel after the recent Gaza war have certainly Made from recycled
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helped his image in the region. for men or women.
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Now that Khamenei has turned down Barack Obama's nuclear offer, he
feels that the prospect of sanctions is greater. Therefore, he needs a Visit the Guardian reader offers shop
change of strategy to deal with the expected difficult time ahead. One Green & ethical shopping at Guardian ecostore
strategy is to turn his struggle against Obama into a new west v Islam
confrontation. Judging by the recent international TV debate in Qatar,
where Iran's nuclear programme was discussed in front of a select comment is free…
audience from the Middle East, there certainly is sympathy for his
position. As far as many people in the region are concerned, Iran's
nuclear programme is the only way to counter Israel's superior balance Latest posts

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URL: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/17/iran-russia-turkey-khamenei-erdogan
of power. Therefore this is a viable strategy. And Erdogan's rising
1hr 44min ago
popularity in the region, and Tehran's improving relations with his
The deathbed conversion has yet to
administration, will be a feasible way for Khamenei to improve his own deliver the goods
position during the difficult times ahead. The absence of progress in the Seumas Milne: Labour is finally
Israeli-Palestinian peace track will also help him. inching in the direction it should have taken years
ago, but even now Brown can't stop triangulating
However, the Iranian supreme leader should be careful about how he
approaches his relations with Turkey and the price he is willing to pay for 2hr 14min ago
A Queen's speech to paint Labour's
it, both at home and abroad. According to the Iranian news website thick, red line
Khabar online, the Ahmadinejad government concluded a secret gas Polly Toynbee: Regrets hung in the
agreement with Turkey in late October, without informing parliament. air, but don't dismiss the Queen's speech as a
After the news was recently leaked to the press, parliament launched a packet of fag-end gestures. Many of these bills
could pass
full investigation. There are now discussions about cancelling the whole
deal if, as the members of parliament say, it is found to be against the
Comment from the paper
country's interests. Many people suspect that Khamenei offered the deal
in unfavourably good conditions to Ankara, as a means of buying its Timothy Garton Ash: Obama's Beijing balancing act
points to the new challenge for the west
loyalty. Judging by its results it seems to have worked. However, the
domestic backlash could damage the legitimacy of his regime even Zoe Williams: Yes, Clapham Junction is that bad.
The sun shone, but the roof still leaks
further.
Jonathan Freedland: Don't crown Cameron just yet.
There is also the issue of the Bushehr nuclear power plant. Turkey can There's one way Labour could still trip him up
not complete it. Only Russia can. Khamenei turning his back on Moscow
could be even more detrimental to this important and expensive project.
Perhaps Khamenei could learn from the Turks, and instead of constantly
Most viewed on guardian.co.uk
changing one ally for another learn to balance his alliances.
24 hours

Printable version Send to a friend Share Clip Contact us Article history

1. World Cup play-off: France v Republic of
Ireland | Barry Glendenning

2. The new wave of female firebrands

striking fear into liberal America
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Staff 4. Dr Brooke Magnanti says she enjoyed
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gondwanaland Recommend? (9)
17 Nov 2009, 3:15PM More top stories
Report abuse
Clip | Link 7 days

Many Iranians i've met would like to see Iran become more like Turkey, so this 1. The new wave of female firebrands
alliance will please them no end. However i'm not convinced Iran has "dropped" striking fear into liberal America
Russia, even if Obama has been cosying up to the Russians of late.
2. Ladies see red, Alan Hansen getting
Sounds like you're short of things to write about Meir? 'nailed' and when rowing goes wrong |
Classic YouTube

dakma Recommend? (12) 3. World Cup play-off: France v Republic of

17 Nov 2009, 3:34PM Ireland | Barry Glendenning
Report abuse
Clip | Link 4. Scientist announces that she is call girl
and blogger Belle de Jour
This is exciting news as Turkey and Iran are the two largest democracies in the
5. Belle de Jour blogger unmasks herself
Islamic world and could do much to stabilize the middle east especially
as 'big mouth ex-boyfriend' looms
learning from each other.
More top stories

robofluffer Recommend? (1)

17 Nov 2009, 3:36PM
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"but is masterfully playing both sides."

Not so sure about that. He overplayed his hand in the Rasmussen affair and if it
wasn't for a pathologically spineless POTUS he would really be out of the loop.

12pins Recommend? (11)

17 Nov 2009, 3:43PM
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Sounds like you're short of things to write about Meir? delivery

Isnt that always the case with him? 90% of the content of his articles seems to Browse the bestsellers lists
be guess with nothing to really back it up. Buy books from the Guardian Bookshop
If what you say is true and Iran is looking more to Turkey then that can only be a Generated by www.PDFonFly.com at 11/18/2009 3:16:32 PM
URL: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/17/iran-russia-turkey-khamenei-erdogan
good thing for both the Iranians and the region as a whole.
There needs to be a balance of powers there, at the moment its America and
her allies.
UK

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17 Nov 2009, 3:53PM
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12pins, you say Marketing Manager

Think Search And Selection.
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17 Nov 2009, 4:14PM c£55,800 + attractive benefits.
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17 Nov 2009, 4:50PM
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@dakma

This is exciting news as Turkey and Iran are the two largest Browse all jobs
democracies in the Islamic world and could do much to stabilize
the middle east especially learning from each other.

Pakistan?
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Bangladesh?

shalone Recommend? (18)

17 Nov 2009, 4:50PM
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It appears the Turks are now back in the Middle East, in the benign guise of
traders and diplomats. The move is natural, considering proximity, the strength
of the Turkish economy, the revival of Islamic feeling in Turkey after decades of
enforced secularism, and frustration with the sluggishness of talks to join the
European Union. Indeed, Turkey?s Middle East offensive has taken on
something of the scale and momentum of an invasion, albeit a peaceful one.
And Iran with so much capital in possession, is right on the top. Turkey's export
has swollen nearly sevenfold in 2008. From cars to tableware, dried figs to
television serials, Turkish products, unknown a decade ago, are now
ubiquitous in markets in Tehran. Obviously in return iran wants something from
Turkey. Disappointed in EU, Turkey is willing to oblige.

corrocamino Recommend? (2)

17 Nov 2009, 4:52PM
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I'm left wondering whether you know less than they do about what they're doing
and why.

meirjavedanfar Recommend? (2)

17 Nov 2009, 5:07PM
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Shalone, Congratulations for your excellent input and analysis.

dakma Recommend? (0)

17 Nov 2009, 5:20PM
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EurObeideZakani:

My apologies,I meant democracies in the middle east.

Generated by www.PDFonFly.com at 11/18/2009 3:16:32 PM

URL: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/17/iran-russia-turkey-khamenei-erdogan
 corrocamino Recommend? (2)
17 Nov 2009, 5:22PM
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You're welcome. Polly now wants a cracker.

whyhateusa Recommend? (1)

17 Nov 2009, 5:39PM
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Last i heard Russia was greatly considering economic sanctions against Iran if
they didn't agree to a UN resolution soon. My guess is that Iran didn't take it so
well and decided to try and ally with one of Russia's largest Black Sea rivals,
which is Turkey. Of course Turkey and the US have been allies and friends for
years. I certainly hope no one expects turkey to through out all Americans in
theior country, shut down thier embassy in Washington or even evictt he US
embassy.

zatar Recommend? (6)

17 Nov 2009, 6:25PM
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However, the domestic backlash could damage the legitimacy of his regime
even further.

The legitimacy of Iranian regime is better than the legitimacy of the violent
regime at Tel Aviv. Iran is perfectly capable of judging who their well wishers
are. Why do you think they dropped US?

Al-Jazeera is another weapon of mass disinfo. Iran has no nuclear weapon

program. A tired attempt to manipulate it's clean energy prog into weapon's
prog.

Many people on the Arab street respect his leadership, as he

was elected in a genuinely democratic elections. The same can
not be said about Egypt's president, Hosni Mubarak, or King
Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who received their posts
undemocratically.

Your concern about Arab street opinion is moving. None of them have any
respect for Israel, Middle East's butchery wearing democracy mask. Do you
care?

Babeouf Recommend? (2)

17 Nov 2009, 6:54PM
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The Turkish government has decided to establish itself as regional power. The
intellectual basis for this move was a proposition that originated in Russia on
the emergence of a multi polar world. When the concept was first advanced the
Western elites gave the notion short shrift. It was looked on as a losers gambit.
Now of course you encounter the idea everywhere(though of course without
acknowledging its roots). I am not convinced that there is any real rift between
the Russian and Iranian governments. The Iranian's want their reactor finished ,
the S 300 missiles delivered. The Russian's want? This part of the transaction
is the most opaque. In any case Turkey cannot supply Iran with the technologies
it needs. China is a better bet. Presently the Iranian standoff is a soap opera.
Will Russia rat out the Iranian government? Will Russia rat out Obama? Will the
Russian's use their mediation to promote their interests? No that's not really a
question.

mountgomery Recommend? (3)

17 Nov 2009, 7:22PM
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Perhaps Khamenei could learn from the Turks, and instead of

constantly changing one ally for another learn to balance his
alliances.

I knew there was going to be a point in this article where Khamenei was the one
who had to "change". How about changing Obama's "olive branch" to Iran, and
let Iran dictate the course of shipping its uranium to Russia and other
countries?

Why doesn't Mr Javedanfar ever says anything about Iran's offer to Obama and
"the west"?

Islamic extremism is one side. The "west's constant self-rightousness is the

other. Both work against any piece process and NATO countries are certainly
not an example of loyalty when it comes to "allies".
Generated by www.PDFonFly.com at 11/18/2009 3:16:32 PM
URL: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/17/iran-russia-turkey-khamenei-erdogan
 mountgomery Recommend? (0)
17 Nov 2009, 7:53PM
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Sorry Mr Javendafar, take the word "ever" out of my last post as I couldn't
possibly know that for sure. I'm of course speaking about the articles I've read
from you.

heatwave2022 Recommend? (6)

17 Nov 2009, 8:43PM
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Turkey is finally coming out of the cold war, despite past US pressure and the
military hanging over.

Let's then welcome Turkey back into the free world.

Slowly... slowly... Turks will win the freedom they have desperately searched for
nearly a century.

mg1234 Recommend? (5)

17 Nov 2009, 9:38PM
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Clip | Link

The basic notion behind this article - that Iran has decided
'to look for a new partner (ie Turkey) to replace the Russians'
lacks credibility.
There is essentially nothing new in there being contractual disputes between
Iran and Russia. Nevertheless, Iran co-operates with Russia when it serves it's
own national interests and indeed both countries will continue to share certain
common and strategic interests. However, the relationship is two way and not
based on dependence.
Likewise it is entirely natural that Iran should have good relations with
neighbouring countries, especially one as important as Turkey. If these has
been a strengthening of Iranian-Turkish relations lately, if anything it comes in
the wake of the strengthening of the democratic system in Turkey and the
consequent weakening of the role of the military in politics.
It is clear that one of the main aim of post revolutionary Iranian is independence
and it has said that it is prepared to have relations based on mutual respect
with all countries apart from Apartheid South Africa and Apartheid Israel.

loewe Recommend? (7)

17 Nov 2009, 10:39PM
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Very interesting article which taught me something new about the options of
Iran and of Turkey.

It makes me better understand Erdogan's problematic statement (concerning

Sudan/Darfur) that a Muslim nation would never commit genocide. It was a
display of propaganda with the intention to increase his standing in the Muslim
world. (Counterfactual, of course, but how do WE react when Western
statesmen make counterfactual statements which flatter us, the Westerners?)

It fascinates me to see how, finally, the "Oriental" nations become ready to

develop their own agendas. China, India, Iran, Turkey ... more and more they
become powers in world politics to be reckoned with by the Western powers
(Russia included).

Europe would be wise to keep the door wide open for Turkey - in 15 or 20 years
we may beg on our knees Turkey to join the EU.

It will take some time, still, so the arrogant Westerners may dream on a while
and curse the evil "Orientals" for their lack of obedience and deference to us.

ShoeThrower Recommend? (9)

17 Nov 2009, 10:43PM
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Don't be silly Meir. As if the Ayatollahs would be so stupid as to drop Russia for
Turkey. I accept that public opinion of Turkey has risen in the Islamic world but
their is very little Turkey can give Iran other than moral support.

Turkey cannot help Iran in its Nuclear programme as its own industry can hardly
be described as self sufficient, its economy is in one of the worse shape in the
world, it cannot sell it any weapons and would stay more or less neautral if
Israel attacked. One the whole their respective powers or more or less
balanced (similar GDP, similar population, similar size army etc). its just good
neighbourly relations not a strategic alliance.

I am not saying that Russia is totally compliant but it helps iran by saying "Niet"
at the SC once in a while.
Generated by www.PDFonFly.com at 11/18/2009 3:16:32 PM
URL:Iran's
You can see why you are writing articles for Guardian and not running http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/17/iran-russia-turkey-khamenei-erdogan
nuclear programme. lol.

wayne28 Recommend? (1)

17 Nov 2009, 11:07PM
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This is diversification, or whatever you call it.

BOREALIS Recommend? (0)

17 Nov 2009, 11:56PM
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Editor:

Is Iran dropping Russia for Turkey?

The title question would have sounded more to the point, if it were to ask:

Is Russia dropping Iran for Turkey to Pick Them Up?

Zarbuvit2009 Recommend? (6)

18 Nov 2009, 6:03AM
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Gondwanaland writes: Many Iranians i've met would like to see Iran become
more like Turkey ...

Problem is, Turkey will look more like Iran and not the contrary.

Dakma writes: This is exciting news as Turkey and Iran are the two largest
democracies in the Islamic world

Iran might be large, but democratic it ain't. Even if we don\t take in account
rigged elections, we can hardly call a country that selects who can run for
parliament democratic.

As to the claim that Iran will stabilize the region, let me laugh at the concept,
seeing as Iran has a finger in every hot spot in the middle East: Lebanon, Gaza,
Yemen, Somalia and Sudan. Funnily enough, everywhere they are to be found,
strife and war ensues.

gondwanaland Recommend? (4)

18 Nov 2009, 7:50AM
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Zarbuvit2009

"Problem is, Turkey will look more like Iran and not the contrary"

I think we're both right/wrong. There's a middle way here, and that's probably
what most people in both countries would like. A kind of "soft" Islamic
democracy.

"Iran might be large, but democratic it ain't"

Iranian democracy has had many setbacks but is very much in place. The
events of June this year were disgraceful, but they remind us that the apparatus
of democracy are all able to function, and that Iranian people are up for it.
Compared to the US backed dictatorships in the region, Iran is already a trail
blazer.
Reform is badly needed i agree, and then as Dakma writes, Iran and Turkey will
indeed be stabilizing influences.

KrustytheKlown Recommend? (7)

18 Nov 2009, 8:32AM
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Here's an interesting take on Iran's relationship with Russia.

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-is-saudi-arabia-going-on-
weapons.htmlhttp://

Not sure what to make of it, but an interesting theory.

But the discussion shows that, despite the patronising 'we are the world'
nonsense spouted by Obama and his fave groupie the boy Miliband, iran is not
'isolated' and in fact has plenty of options. The term 'international community' as
used to refer to the US and EU, was always inaccurate, but is becoming more
obviously so now. The Iranians, the Chinese, the Turks etc all know this. The
'west' appears not to. Or not to want to.

Zarbuvit2009 Recommend? (0)Generated by www.PDFonFly.com at 11/18/2009 3:16:32 PM

URL: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/17/iran-russia-turkey-khamenei-erdogan
 18 Nov 2009, 8:36AM
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@ Gondwanaland.

I contend that Iran is playing a double strategic game. confrontation with the
West as a rallying point for it's other aim: confrontation with the Sunni world. It's
stance vis-a-vist the West puts it in te front line of Islam's perceived enemies:
Israel (with the funding and arming of Hizballah and Hamas), the Us in Iraq,
Saudia in Yemen ans i believe they are also active in Somalia and Sudan. This
puts them in a position to dominate the Middle East ad propel them into the
rank of first regional power, something of course Israel (and some other
regional forces) cannot agree to.

In as much as I understand their motives, I cannot agree that Iran is a stabilizing

factor in the Middle East.

gondwanaland Recommend? (3)

18 Nov 2009, 9:07AM
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Zarbuvit2009

Shia Muslims have been downtrodden for generations and are finally finding
thier voice. Of course Iran supports them to some extent. Saudi Arabia supports
the Taliban and Sunni militias in Iraq and elsewhere. I don' see you mentioning
that.

If Saudi and Egypt were not US backed dictatorships i suspect they'd join Iran in
supporting the democratically elected Palestinian government too.

shalone Recommend? (0)

18 Nov 2009, 9:29AM
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meirjavedanfar, Thanks for your compliment on my input yesterday.

justimagin Recommend? (4)

18 Nov 2009, 9:52AM
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Recep Tayyip Erdogan, is being seen more and more as a credible defender of
Islamic and Arab issues. Many people on the Arab street respect his
leadership, as he was elected in a genuinely democratic elections.

Good on him, he's like a breath of fresh air, just what Turkey needed.

I ve heard from a few Turkish friends that they fear that "he's doing too well" (as
if someone can do too well?), some have said that they fear a military coup is
on the cards, some have said that some of Turkeys generals are in Americas
pocket and they know what could very possibly happed.

watch this space.

KrustytheKlown Recommend? (5)

18 Nov 2009, 10:02AM
Report abuse
Clip | Link

Recep Tayyip Erdogan, is being seen more and more as a

credible defender of Islamic and Arab issues. Many people on
the Arab street respect his leadership, as he was elected in a
genuinely democratic elections.

Strange, isn't it?

The country often lambasted by conservative Muslims as a nation oppressive in

its secularism (how many times have I been told 'they ban the hijab' when of
course they don't) is now at the forefront of international Islamic politics. While
those wealthy Gulf nations which portray themselves as the heart of Islam, are
in reality tools of the US.

12pins Recommend? (3)

18 Nov 2009, 10:18AM
Report abuse
Clip | Link

Meir just look to this artcile, exactly where have you provided any links to back up
any of your points to the reasons for Iran looking to Turkey and not to Russia
anymore?
Most of it is just superfical.
Generated by www.PDFonFly.com at 11/18/2009 3:16:32 PM
Like i said earlier much of your articles seem to just be guesswork,
URL:no http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/17/iran-russia-turkey-khamenei-erdogan
shame
in that, most of the writers on CIF are exactly the same so you're in good
company.

While those wealthy Gulf nations which portray themselves as the heart of Islam,
are in reality tools of the US.

Excellent point of course.

gondwanaland Recommend? (0)

18 Nov 2009, 11:23AM
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Krusty

"how many times have I been told 'they ban the hijab' when of course they don't)"

Didn't Kemal Ataturk ban the Fez, AKA Tommy Cooper hat?

I think that's something a lot of people get confused about when they talk about
banning headware.

The Shah's father banned the use of the word Persia as well as postcards of
camels according to stephen Kinzers excellent All The Shah's Men.

gondwanaland Recommend? (0)

18 Nov 2009, 11:27AM
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I have read that Qadaffi banned the veil but don't have time right now to
research.

Anyone know?

KrustytheKlown Recommend? (4)

18 Nov 2009, 11:33AM
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Clip | Link

Didn't Kemal Ataturk ban the Fez, AKA Tommy Cooper hat?

Yes and it's said he would also have completely banned the headscarf if he
thought he could get away with it. But the most the Turkish state could do was
ban it in official institutions such as state-run schools and universities. The ban
still exists though there's recently been talk of revising it.

Anyway, my point is that while Turkey is seen by many Muslims as almost a

traitor to Islam (whatever that means) in reality it is much more proactive in
issues of interest to Muslims than the puppet gulf states. And it's not that new a
thing either: Turkey refused to allow its air space to be used to attack Iraq,
whereas many of the Gulf states quietly allowed the US to use their seas and
territory as part of the war effort.

gwillikers Recommend? (2)

18 Nov 2009, 12:35PM
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So moderate Turkey is now buddies with Iran? Seems like the planets are
aligning themselves into Islam vs. the West. Of course this was inevitable and
as an American I'd greatly prefer an alliance with Russia over Turkey. I think its
time, now that Iran and Turkey are aligned and America owes the Kurds in Iraq,
that a push for a real Kurdistan become a focal point of American foreign policy.
Lets see the response from the Islamists and their leftist allies when an actual
people, with a seperate culture, customs, history, language, immense
population and contiguous land mass try to assert their real rights, pushing the
Palestinians to the back bench. Let the excuses and hypocricy fly!!!

RedScot Recommend? (3)

18 Nov 2009, 1:15PM
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Turkey has been the moderator of the politics of the region - which includes
everywhere east of Istanbul - since Mustafa Kemal Ataturk founded that nation,
despite the dictatorial way he and his military comrades went about it.

That Iran is wooing Turkey comes as no surprise but it is well that we

remember that (Kurdish) Mosul was a part of the Ottoman empire and that
Turkey, in its battle for independence after WW1, sought sovereignty over the
area on that basis; only to be denied by the British when they created the
illusionary state of Iraq in order to exploit the oil resources.

The Kurdish 'question' is central to both powers. Turkey has recently made
approaches towards social inclusivity, whereby the Kurds who accept Turkish
nationality will gain a large degree of autonomony. Generated by www.PDFonFly.com at 11/18/2009 3:16:32 PM
URL: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/17/iran-russia-turkey-khamenei-erdogan
The Iranians, who supported the Kurdish people who live on the borders
between Iran and Iraq in their struggle against the Saddam Hussein regime,
are now finding themselves in a quandry concerning the question of Kurdish
independence/autonomy within the new Iraq.

The question Iran now faces is basically to support Kurdish control of the oil
wealth of Mosul and surrounds, and thereby antagonize the government in
Baghdad, or, support the new Iraqi government and alienate the Kurds, leading
therefore to a backlash from the Kurds who live in the borderlands of northern
Iran/Iraq?

It is not so much that Iran is "dropping Russia for Turkey" at all. It is more likely
that Iran has no choice. The Turks are the only government which might help in
solving an almost intractable problem, while the Russians just continue to be
wracked by economic and political incompetence, and, thus, count as
inconsequential in the affairs of the region.

Duballiland Recommend? (2)

18 Nov 2009, 1:27PM
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Maybe the Iranian's could hold a fresh election and not murder its own citizen's
openly on the streets afterwards.

I don't think so.

Let's see less prescription for a nicer Iranian dictatorship...after all it is a

theocracy.

corrocamino Recommend? (2)

18 Nov 2009, 1:54PM
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Any pre-TV types out there? If so, perchance you had opportunity to hear the
radio suspense show called "The Shadow". Said Shadow's resounding*
rhetorical question was, "Who knows what evil lies in the hearts of men?
[echoing cynical laughter]"

I suggest we pursue that question by tearing the hearts out of several leading
neocons for close examination. Let the Iranians operate on their own
ayatollahs.

____
* Nowadays, things resonate.

orangered Recommend? (1)

18 Nov 2009, 2:51PM
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Is Iran dropping Russia for Turkey?

Turkey has no independent foreing policy to lead.Turks always get

advice from USA. Without american influence, turks can not do
anyting in the region.What ever they do with iran,it should not be
interpreted as turkey is as big as russia.Iran knows that turkey has
been working with america for a log time therfore whenever iran
want it to communicate with USA they use turkish channel so that
they do not have to explain to their people that they are
communicating with Amerikans. Because of Amerikan foreing
policy in the middle east which is ( liberal islam) there is a big role
for turkey to play. Now turkey is playing that role.

mountgomery Recommend? (0)

18 Nov 2009, 9:52PM
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gwillikers

Seems like the planets are aligning themselves into Islam vs.
the West.

Them Islamists are at it again.

I think its time, now that Iran and Turkey are aligned and America
owes the Kurds in Iraq, that a push for a real Kurdistan become a
focal point of American foreign policy.

Agree completely. Shame it hasn't though, Any thoughts on that?

Lets see the response from the Islamists and their leftist allies
when an actual people, with a seperate culture, customs, history,
language, immense population and contiguous land mass try to
assert their real rights, pushing the Palestinians to the back
bench.
Generated by www.PDFonFly.com at 11/18/2009 3:16:32 PM
Let's see it happening. Then you can prove whether this usual rant overhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/17/iran-russia-turkey-khamenei-erdogan
URL: the left
and Islam, most of which is demonstrably false and outright ridiculous, has any
back up.

Let the excuses and hypocricy fly!!!

You want to talk about Hypocrisy? Look at PKK - US, and Turkey - US relations
for an example of real hypocrisy when it comes to the Kurds. Here's some for
starters:

She spoke glowingly of the Turks, declared them stalwart allies, reminded them
of their love of Bill Clinton, who, when he was president, had delivered the
Kurdish rebel leader Abdullah Ocalan to their island prison, Imrali, and noted,
referring to her host, ?We discussed our cooperation to defeat our common
enemy, the PKK.?

The third was how many Americans actually know of the PKK that Clinton calls
the enemy of the United States. I am a Kurd and consider myself well versed on
the topic and could give your secretary of state a lecture on the subject. The
Kurdish organization has never harmed an American to date. It has, however,
been very critical of Washington?s unwavering support of Ankara. So is this
how it made it to the list of the enemies of the United States?

Let me be as plain as the English language allows me to be: your secretary of

state fools no one when she misconstrues the enduring Kurdish struggle for
freedom as ?terrorism? in Turkey or ?sectarianism? in Iraq.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-25600-World-History-
Examiner~y2009m10d7-Kani-Xulam-at-World-Affairs-Council--Hillary-Rodham-
Clinton-lost-her-bearings-in-Kinshasa

Hypocrisy is already flying high over the Kurd issue. Only you chose to ignore it.

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URL: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/17/iran-russia-turkey-khamenei-erdogan