Sedona April 26

Minutes 112:30 - 123:50 Senators Clinton and McCain

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton: ...rise up, and-and-and we will have an election, where, you know, the future is represented." I said, "That doesn't happen just by wishing it. You have to organize. And you take what you've done on social media, and you transfer it into the real world, out of the virtual world, into the real world. I-I was roundly shut down, just criticized, basically, etcetera. Then I watched as it became painfully, uh, obvious to me that, uh, eh, you know, the...the political, eh, situation inside Egypt, ah, did actually favor one or the other of the organized institutions. And we've seen what's happened, and we know now there's another election. But there's still no real political organization of sufficient strength and persuasion that can provide a convincing alternative to the general and his campaign. So I think w-we will keep doing what is very unsatisfying, and that is to say, "Elections don't make democracies." You have to protect minority rights, you have to have independent judiciaries, freedom of the press, free expression, all of the things that you have fought for your entire life. Um, but unless there is a viable political alternative, it's very hard for the United States to be making that case. And we get blamed by everybody, you know, uh, the secularists and liberals all thought we were supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood all thought we were trying to subvert them. The military thought we were interfering no matter what we did. So we were just blanketed criticized. And I think it's very difficult...We can support, uh, opposition parties. We can support individuals who are b-bravely standing up for freedom, but we can't make it happen. We can't create the parties. We can't recruit and groom the politicians. And unless that's happening in-inside Egypt, it's very hard to know what we can do, other than rhetorically say, "This is what should be happening." But I'm, you know, I'm open to any ideas that you or others have. Senator John McCain: Madam President. Senator Clinton: Stop it John. [laughter]

Senator Clinton: You know, this is all designed to get me into real trouble. Senator McCain: Freudian slip. Senator Clinton: You know that. [laughter] Senator Clinton: I was thinking about all the places John and I have been together and all of the mischief that we have caused, um, and it-it-it really gave me a lot of both warm memories and worries. [laughter] Senator McCain: [laughs] You, as Secretary of State, finally, if I could ask, went to a record, for any Secretary of State -- for any length of time -- was it 107 countries? Senator Clinton: 112. Senator McCain: 112 countries. Remarkable. Uh, several members of her staff are still hospitalized... Senator Clinton: [laughs] Senator McCain: ...from the experiencing. Glad to see, Huma, that you are still alive, but...Eh-eh-eh-eh, this may be kinda a softball [?], but I think that people would really like to know. W-w-what...Could you give us one or two of your best experiences in this odyssey that you went on? Senator Clinton: [laughs] Well, i-i-i-it didn't start to be, uh, an odyssey, uh. When I was asked to be secretary, and finally agreed, uh, to accept the offer, I got a lot of great advice. And, you know, one of the former secretaries, who I admire, said, "Look. You've got to either decide you want to try to, uh, manage the building," which is what the State Department's called, um, "Or...," you know, "Pursue diplomacy. You can't do both." And I said, "Well that...we can't afford that, because part of our challenge is there's just too much going on the world and we need to reorganize ourselves and get better focused, in order to take on these challenges." And what I found was, eh, many countries and particularly leaders, but also populations, were very anxious to find out whether the United States still cared about them, because we'd been understandably focused. After 9-11, uh, with Iraq and Afghanistan, and, of course, the...the Middle East, much of the rest of the world thought we were basically absent from the region, and-and you, I know, saw that as you traveled.

Asia felt that very strongly. Africa, really appreciated President Bush's remarkable program, uh, PEPFAR, to provide HIV AIDS, but a lot of the political leaders were kind of, y-you know, looking for other countries to supportive. Same in Latin American, it's...and even Europe. Once they were insulted by being called Old Europe and, eh, irrelevant to anything that might go on the present or the future. So there was a sense that we'd kind of abandoned huge parts of the world. So when I started making my round of phone calls in that first week. It was...it was really remarkable, and somewhat, uh, sad, for me to be deluged with these feelings. And, what I...and-and I'll give you just an example. So Asia was particularly, uh, vocal about this. Especially our allies and our friends, but not only them. And that's why I went to Asia for my first trip as secretary, which kinda broke tradition. And one of the things I decided, which only the wonks in here would care about, was that the United States would finally sign, uh, the Treat of Amity and Cooperation with an organization called the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, ASEAN. Because, if we were going to play our natural role as a Pacific power, we needed to embed ourselves in the relationships that already existed in the region, which the people themselves had built up, and which they valued, and which they wanted us to be part of, uh, in no small measure to be a counter-balance to their very big neighbor, China. So I...I went to all these countries. I went, the first time ever a Secretary of State has gone to something called the Pacific Islands Forum. And one of the...One of the journalists says, "Well, why are you going here? I mean, it's so...It's out in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific Ocean." I said, "Well, a lot of those small nations vote with us in the United Nations, send their young people to serve in the United States military, are being courted lavishly by the Chinese, and deserve to have some attention paid to them." Uh, and so, I did a lot of the traveling I did for strategic and tactical reasons. But some of it was very, uh, you know, very moving to me. Um, I really appreciate the work that Cindy McCain does on so many of the hardest issues affecting the most marginalized, you know, most brutalized people in the world. And she knows, because she's been there that I went to Goma, in the Democratic Republic of Congo. And, again, it was like people s-...you know, a lot of people say, "Well, who cares? Who cares what happens in Eastern Congo?" It's only the bloodiest conflict that has been going on the last 20 years, more than 5 million people killed, hundreds of thousands more injured, countless women and girls raped and brutalized. [sarcastically] But who cares? I mean, you know, it's not that big a deal. Why would I waste my time going there?

And one of the reasons that I went there was to try to convince the President, Kabila, to let us help him use mobile technology to pay his soldiers. Because part of the reason we've had this horrible conflict, in Eastern Congo for so long, is that the DRC army can't discipline itself, in large measure, because they don't pay their soldiers. And why don't they pay their soldiers? Because a big suitcase of cash starts out in Kinshasa, that's supposed to go to Goma or Kivu, and by the time it gets there, if there is like a dollar left. Audience Member: [laughs] Senator Clinton: Because every general and colonel and major and captain and lieutenant has reached in and taken his share. So, it's like a small thing, but I worked with him and we got in mobile technology goings so that we could pay soldiers through cell phone transfers, etcetera. And I met him in Goma, and I went to the refugee camp, there, and then I went to one of the hospitals that's taking care of, you know, the women and girls who've been, uh...raped and left to die, and...and thrown out of their, uh...their homes, because of the way they were attacked. And, John, I'll tell you, it's one of the most joyful places in the world. And you can go to a [emphatically] lot of places in the world that are rich and wealthy and well-fed and educated, and you don't come anywhere near seeing the joy of the streets of Goma, where people are living, and a sense of resiliency and hope despite the circumstances that they face. And it's just a [emphatically] great reminder of the power of the human spirit and why it's so important that we continue, uh...to nurture and protect and...and promote, uh...you know, human dignity and human rights, because that's one of our comparative advantages, frankly, and it's something that, uh...we have to always stand for and do as good a job as we can in, uh...exporting, as well as respecting, here at home. Senator McCain: Thank you. [audience applause] Senator McCain: I wish every American could hear the message that you just sent. Because it's what America is supposed to be all about. And you've been a great representative and we're grateful. Senator Clinton: Thank you. Thank you all. [audience applause] [silence]

Facilitator: Thank you, Senator Clinton, thank you, Senator McCain. For our participants here, we're gonna have our stuff clear the stage very quickly, and then I'd like to invite you to come up here, and we're gonna do the family photo, as we described here in the front of the room. So, get on that...