Outrigger for super tall builings

Andy Sunjaya Structural Engineer PT. Gistama Intisemesta, Freelance i have some questions about outrigger. i wish somebody could help me to solve this problem..my questions are: 1.Does anybody know the minimum reinforcement for outrgiger wall? i have the guide from CTBUH but it didn't mention any minimum reinforcement for outrigger wall.. 2. when i use outrigger walls on ETABS, does the outrigger act like sprandel? 3. if the outrigger acts as sprandel, there must be a self-straining behaviour when it moves, does any code can cover this? i mean load combination for cover this

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francis ayan ,BSCE,CPEng,MIPENZ,M.ASCE, mehrdad Ashena and 3 others like this 21 comments Jump to most recent comment Show previous comments

Alberto Alberto Munoz Diaz especialista en anlisis y diseo de estructuras Hello, Andy. May I have form you some drowings of outrriger types you are thinking of ?
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Andy
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Andy Sunjaya Structural Engineer PT. Gistama Intisemesta, Freelance Mr. Alberto, i just read from the book of CTBUH and i tried to make a model of outrigger in ETABS. For some advantages of outrigger applied in my model like reducing drift, etc but i don't know was it right or wrong.
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Alex Alex Bonnar, P.E. Project Manager at McNamara/Salvia, Inc. Make sure your floor diaphragms are not rigid and if using concrete, modify stiffness for cracking. To check cracking, compare the shell stresses to the rupture modulus. Also check for net tension in your outrigger columns, which would require the stiffness to be based on the steel reinforcement area instead of the concrete area.
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Daniel Daniel Bartminn Senior Manager Structural Design; Team Lead Civil Engineering Wind Offshore at RWE Innogy often in "real building" the architural layouts will not allow you to align outrigger walls and core walls, which could intruduce significant torsional loads, make sure the load path are well understood and can develop as intended. @ Peter, if I recall correctly the purpose of the damped outigger was to increase
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structural damping of the global system in lieu of other damping devices such as Tuned Mass or Tuned Slosh Dampers http://www.arup.com/_assets/_download/DB1F351B-19BB-316E400D74D7C61EDCAF.pdf
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Peter Peter Placzek Design Director at Meinhardt (VIC) Daniel, Yes, that is the one. Even if it is not specifically mentioned in the text the damper has the effect of reducing the differential shortening issue (only general reduction in column sizes is mentioned). Just need to make sure there is enough travel in the dampers for the differential shortening.
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Andy Andy Sunjaya Structural Engineer PT. Gistama Intisemesta, Freelance Mr. Alex is the modifier stiffness for this outrigger i the same as when we assigned walls? i
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mean crack and uncraked as defined in ACI. of course i'm not forget to make the semi-rigid diaphragm because it would be affect the shear force at the diaphragm to core wall and i've read it..thx for your advice.
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Alex Alex Bonnar, P.E. Project Manager at McNamara/Salvia, Inc. Andy, I typically use the provisions for walls when assigning stiffness reductions. You could also assign a stiffness reduction based on the effective moment of inertia, similar to calculations for beam deflections.
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Peter Peter Placzek Design Director at Meinhardt (VIC) It all depends on the outriger form. You have look at the example posted by Daniel. There is really nothing left of the wall because of the door openings. Your architect is in control of the outrigger shape. You have to make what is left work. If you do use wall elements in ETABS make sure you use fine meshing throughout the outrigger and adjacent areas (fine meshing alone will reduce the stiffness) . The code stiffness reductions have no bearing on the primarry design actions in the outrigger. What will make the differance is shear stiffness reduction. I personally advocate stiffness reduction factors on F12 (shear) in walls if it helps to reduce excessive stressess. The argument is that high stresses cause cracking (shear) and therefore stress release.

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Alex Alex Bonnar, P.E. Project Manager at McNamara/Salvia, Inc. Merry Christmas everyone. Peter, are you aware of any limits on cracking assignments? I recall a paper that suggested you could go as low as 0.1 for coupling beams. Is it just a matter of assigning whatever it takes to get strength under control?
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Peter Peter Placzek Design Director at Meinhardt (VIC) Alex, I am not aware of the paper, but I agree from my own tests in ETABS. Coupling beam with large L/d ratio should be modeled as line elements or if modeled as area objects with F12 factors as low as 0.1. The options for large L/d coupling beams is: a) model as line element - recommended b) area element with fine meshing- needs to pick up the double curvature deformed shape. c) area element with low F12 stiffness reduction 0.3 max, but as low as 0.1. In case of c) the factors are only reflecting the behaviour of the finely meshed area object coupling beam in case b).
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Laszlo Laszlo Erdosy N/A at N/A Is the outrigger to be concrete or steel? For a concrete wall, it is a simple task to determine the shear and moments subjected onto the outrigger. Decide on the shape of the wall, height, width and depth. Once these are known, it is a matter of sizing the rebar. If you know the concrete strength, it ought not to be a problem.
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