17.3.

2014

FRP allowable stress - Intergraph CADWorx & Analysis

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Topic Options FRP allowable stress CCMech Hi all,

Member Registered: 12/04/09 Posts: 17 Loc: C anada #44196 - 08/17/11 11:33 AM

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I got a datasheet from the supplier for the FRP piping. It listed Axial Tensile Ultimate Stress and Axial Compression Ultimate Stress. Which one should I use for allowable stress?

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Re: FRP allowable stress [Re:

C C Mech]

#44199 - 08/17/11 09:27 PM

Richard Yee
Member Registered: 12/16/99 Posts: 166 Loc: C hesterfield, MO 63017

CCMech, Consider using 10% of the axial tensile ultimate stress as the Allowable Stress for FRP piping. The long term pressure design of FRP pipe is based on the 10% of UTS rupture stress. A compressive stress resulting in buckling failure will probably occur much sooner than a compressive stress ultimate failure. The real trick is in the details. Support attachments must avoid point type loads that would damage the glass fiber reinforcement of the FRP structural cage. The big 'No-No' is U-bolt hangers that crush the diameter of pipe. The FRP pipe should have saddle plate and not sit on the edge of angle or channel structural steel _________________________ R Yee

12/06/09 11:14 AM

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Re: FRP allowable stress [Re:

C C Mech]

#44221 - 08/18/11 12:11 PM

CCMech Thanks Richard.

Member Registered: 12/04/09 Posts: 17 Loc: C anada

The Axial Tensile Ultimate Stress given by the vendor is 10.3KSI and the the Axial Compression Ultimate Stress is 33ksi. Which one should I use? Should they be the same?
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FRP allowable stress - Intergraph CADWorx & Analysis

The elbow fails all the time even when I didn't use any anchors just +Y supports. Can you tell me how to model the elbows correctly?
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Re: FRP allowable stress [Re:

C C Mech]

#44244 - 08/19/11 12:56 PM

Richard Yee
Member Registered: 12/16/99 Posts: 166 Loc: C hesterfield, MO 63017

CCMech, Pipe is usually applied for pressure service. Pressure in pipe results in tensile stress. The magnitude of the UTS is less than the UCS - could be reached first before the UCS, in bending load cases. Use the tensile UTS. The reasons for tensile UTS being less magnitude than compression ultimate stress are result of the way strain is shared between the glass fibers and the plastic resins. If the glass fibers are continuous (full length) filament wound in the structural cage, then the loads are sustained mostly by the glass fibers with the UTS of the composite approaching the UTS of the glass. If the glass fibers are shorter length chopped strand or mat, then the plastic resins have the role of connecting the glass fibers with the shear strength of the plastic resins being a large component of the composite strength. There is also the proportion of glass fiber to the plastic resins in the composite that determines the UTS and UCS. Elbows are usually manufactured stronger than the straight pipe, whether it is FRP or metal. If you are using same properties for your elbows as for the FRP pipe, then you might verify the elbows wall thickness with the manfacturer. The manufacturer should also provide guidelines for spacing of supports - the recommended FRP spans are less than half that for metal piping support spans. _________________________ R Yee

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Re: FRP allowable stress [Re:

C C Mech]

#44296 - 08/23/11 02:58 PM

CCMech Hi Richcard,
Member Registered: 12/04/09 Posts: 17 Loc: C anada

If I use UTS as the allowable for BS 7159. Based on the given rated pressure and the wall thickness by the vendor, the calculated hoop stress is higher than UTS. It failes for piping especially for the tees as the combined stress includes the hoop stress. The Eh/Ea =
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1.83. If use hydrostatic hoop design pressure(97.5MPa), then the hoop stress is acceptable. How the piping thickness is dertermined? If it is based on the hoop design stress, should the axial stress be 97.5/1.83 = 53.3MPa? Also, how the beam bending stress works? Thanks,
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Re: FRP allowable stress [Re:

C C Mech]

#44315 - 08/24/11 09:06 AM

Dorin Daniel Popescu

Member Registered: 06/05/00 Posts: 36 Loc: Middle East

Hi, CCMech ! I've encountered the same problems on a recent project. My advice is: Unless the Project Design Specifications (i.e. Basic Design, Piping Design, Piping Stress Analysis etc.) do not clearly state the Design Code(s) for FRP Piping, clarify as soon as possible with the FRP Piping VENDOR which is the Design & Analysis Code for FRP Piping. Most probable, the design/analysis Codes may be ASME B31.3 (Chapter VII - together with several ASTM Standards - see the Code), BS 7159, UKOOA and, the most recent and complete Code/Standard, ISO 14692 (part 3 for design/analysis purpose). However, I repeat, the design/standards code(s) are BASIC INPUT DATA for FRP Piping design/stress analysis. Once the FRP Piping analysis Code(s)/Standard(s) are clarified, then ask the FRP Piping Vendor ALL the FRP material properties' values addressed by the design Code/Standard. Be careful, Vendor may suggest as design/analysis approach a mixture between different Codes/Standards (see above) and other Vendor's own standards/specifications. Most frequently, the piping flexibility analysis method (i.e. stress calculation formulas, loading cases, SIF's assessment) may follow one of the international codes named above (BS 7159, UKOOA, ISO 14692), but the allowable stress definition/assessment may be accomplished in a different manner, by employing lower safety coefficients and/or other methods that are not provided by the Codes. In this situation, try to impose/ask to Vendor to guarantee officially (or to take the responsibility for)

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the allowable stress values under discussion. Temperature influence, loading-unloading cycles' number, FRP pipe design lifetime and working fluid's corrosion effects should be also taken into account. Generally, a "clean" or "proper" design approach should follow a coherent set of rules, meaning that one single Code/Standard's requirements should be followed, from the allowable stress definition/establishment up to pipe loading philosophy, stress computation, SIF's assessment and Code Stress qualification. Best regards, _________________________ Dorin Daniel Popescu Lead Piping Stress Engineer
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Re: FRP allowable stress [Re:

C C Mech]

#44339 - 08/24/11 04:41 PM

CCMech Thanks Dorin.

Member Registered: 12/04/09 Posts: 17 Loc: C anada

I have asked the vendor all those questions, but I don't get a answer from yet. So for ISO 14692, are the vendor supposed to provide all the parameters or they can be found based on the hydrostatic design stress?

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Re: FRP allowable stress [Re:

C C Mech]

#44347 - 08/24/11 07:13 PM

Richard Yee
Member Registered: 12/16/99 Posts: 166 Loc: C hesterfield, MO 63017

CCMech, Have not applied BS 7159 for design of FRP piping. I finally did the conversion from metric 97.5 MPa, and it is 14,141 psi. !!! (975 bar ) Maybe the hydrostatic design pressure is being confused with the tensile design stress. Both have the same units of force divided by the area. I would not put 14,141 psi pressure into FRP pipe or even metal pipe. Some small metal tubing size 0.50 inch or less could sustain that high pressure. You might need some more perspective and experience of pressure design. The question of which design code to use also implies different methods and considerations and simplifications are made by the different codes.

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The question of 'how beam bending stress works' will be answered by an example beam with simply supported ends over a 6 meter span. The beam deflects downward at center of span due to weight. Four questions to you: 1) Where is the maximum tensile stress? 2) Where is the maximum compressive stress? 3) Where are the tensile and compressive stresses both zero? 4) Where is the maximum shear stress? Answers 1) bottom of cross section 2) top of cross section, and equal magnitude for symmetrical section 3) center of cross section (neutral axis, if not symmetrical section) 4) center of cross section (neutral axis, if not symmetrical section) Now where does the piping design go to next? There are pressure hoop and axial stresses and bending stresses occurring simultaneously. _________________________ R Yee
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Re: FRP allowable stress [Re:

C C Mech]

#44355 - 08/25/11 06:12 AM

Dorin Daniel Popescu

Member Registered: 06/05/00 Posts: 36 Loc: Middle East

CCMech, If ISO 14692 is the FRP piping design/analysis code, then the Vendor should provide ALL the input parameters' values in order to define completely the FRP material failure envelope. ISO 14692 Part 2 (16492-2) provides a complex set of FRP material testing & qualification procedures. Based upon these procedures, ISO 14692 Part 3 (ISO 146923) details the FRP piping design procedures, including the FRP material failure envelope definition. If you have not worked with ISO 14692 Standards before, please see for details ISO 14692-2, Section 6 (Qualification Programme)and ISO 14692-3 entirely. An important detail, for a beginner, ISO 14692 Part 1 (ISO 14692-1) contains all the terminology definitions employed by ISO 14692 standards. So, if FRP piping for your Project is to be designed, manufactured and tested in accordance with ISO 14692, then you have to get (from Vendor, of course)

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ALL the input parameters that define FRP material failure envelope (see ISO 14692-3, Section 7.11). Regarding the hydrostatic design stress, it depends what hydrostatic test data you've got from the Vendor: have you got the Short-Term Hydrostatic Pressure STHP (and the corresponding short-term hydrostatic hoop strength STHS), determined in accordance with ASTM D 1599, OR the Long-Term Hydrostatic Pressure LTHP (and the corresponding long-term hydrostatic hoop strength LTHS), determined in accordance with ASTM D 2992 ? For ISO 14692, the basic strength parameters are the Qualified Pressure "pq" and the corresponding Qualified Stress "sigma qs", which are established in relation with above LTHP (ASTM D 2992, procedure B) - see ISO 14692-2, Section 6.2.3.1. "pq" corresponds to 20 years lifetime, working temperature not higher than 65 C Deg, neutral working fluid and unrestrained-ends plain pipe loading (i.e. 2:1 pressure loading in hoop and axial directions). Depending on the actual piping loading regime (temperature, lifetime, loading-unloading cycles, corrosive working fluid), ISO 14692 provides appropriate de-rating and correction factors. Definitely, VENDOR should be consulted regarding these evaluations. If the short-term hydrostatic test strengths are employed (i.e. the above STHP and STHS, as per ASTM D 1599), then a scale factor "fscale" should be used to perform the transition from the short-term strength parameters (i.e. short-term failure envelope) towards the long-term strength parameters (i.e. longterm failure envelope) - see ISO 14692-3, Section 7.11. In this case, VENDOR should provide "fscale" parameter. So, to conclude, FRP piping analysis may be performed exclusively in accordance with ISO 14692, ONLY IF FRP Piping Material is designed, manufactured, tested and qualified in accordance with ISO 14692 provisions. If the above condition is not satisfied, then you should establish TOGETHER with FRP piping VENDOR the specific analysis approach. However, as I previously noted, Vendor must take the responsibility for the allowable stress values if the flexibility analysis does not follow coherently a recognized international code provisions. Best Regards,
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_________________________ Dorin Daniel Popescu Lead Piping Stress Engineer

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