Grading Survey Results

I would be more likely to take a Mini-Elective.
1 3 2 1 5
3 1 1 3
1 2 2 2
2 2
3 3 2 3 3 2
3 1
3 3 3 3
3 1 2
3 3 3
1 3 3
2 2 2
3 1 2.354166667
I would be more likely to be involved in a student group. 1 1 2 3 3
3 3 3 3
1 2 3 2
1 2
3 3 2 3 3 3
3 1
5 2 1 3
3 1 2
3 3 3
3 3 2
2 2 3
1 2.468085106
I would be more likely to take on a leadership position. 1 1 2 3 3
3 3 3 3
1 3 3 2
1 2
3 1 1 3 3 3
3 1
5 2 1 3
3 1 3
3 3 4
3 3 2
2 2 2
1 1 2.416666667
I would be more likely to shadow a physician. 1 1 2 2 3
3 3 3 4
2 3 3 2
1 1
3 1 2 3 3 3
3 1
5 3 1 3
2 1 3
3 3 2
2 3 2
1 2 3
1 1 2.3125
I would be more likely to engage in recreational activities. 5 1 2 2 3
3 2 3 3
1 4 3 2
1 1
3 1 1 3 3 1
3 1
5 1 1 3
3 1 2
3 3 3
2 3 3
2 2 1
1 1 2.270833333
I would learn my basic science course material better. 5 1 4 5 5
3 3 4 5
3 3 4 4
3 3
3 1 5 5 3 3
4 4
5 4 1 2
4 1 5
3 4 2
3 5 5
1 3 4
5 4 3.583333333
I would be a better candidate for residency. 5 1 1 2 5
I would be more likely to participate in research. 3 1 3 3 5
3 1 4 4
3 1 3 3
3 3 5 3
2 3 3 2
3 2
1 1
3 1 4 5 3 2
3 3 3 3 3 2
4 3
3 1
5 3 5 4
5 3 1 3
4 1 3
3 1 3
3 3 1
3 3 2
1 4 5
2 3 2
1 2 1
1 2 2
1 2 3.0625
1 1 2.5
I would experience less stress in my life. 5 1 2 2 3
3 1 2 1
1 2 3 2
1 1
2 1 1 3 4 1
3 1
5 2 1 4
3 1 2
3 2 2
1 3 1
1 1 1
1 1 2.0625
My classmates would experience less stress in their lives. 5 1 1 3 3
2 1 2 1
1 1 2 3
1 1
1 1 1 3 5 1
2 1
5 2 1 4
2 1 1
1 2 1
1 2 1
1 1 1
1 1 1.854166667
Pitt Med would be a very collaborative environment. 1 1 3 3
3 1 3 3
1 2 3 3
1 1
2 1 2 3 4 3
3 1
5 2 1 2
3 1 2
2 3 2
3 3 3
1 1 1
5 1 2.276595745
Pitt Med would be an academically rigorous environment. 5 5 5 5 5
4 3 3 5
3 3 3 3
4 3
3 1 5 5 3 3
5 3
5 3 5 4
4 1 4
4 4 3
4 4 4
3 3 4
5 1 3.75
I am motivated to learn my basic science course material very well. 4 1 3 4 5
3 3 4 5
3 3 4
3 3
3 1 5 5 3 4
4 3
5 4 1 2
4 1 5
3 4 3
4 5 5
3 3 3
5 4 3.595744681
Would you support a proposal to change preclinical grading from H/P/F to P/F? Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses No No No
No
Yes - for all preclinical courses
No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for non-basic science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses No Yes - for all preclinical courses
No
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
No
Yes - for non-basic science courses only
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses No No Yes - for all preclinical courses
Yes - for non-basic science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses
No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for non-basic science courses only
No Yes - for non-basic science courses only Yes - for basic-science courses only
Yes - for non-basic science courses only No Yes - for non-basic science courses only
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, negatively, or not at all? Not at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all
Not at all Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all
Not at all
Not at all Not at all
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses.
Not at all
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not at all Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had five-tier grading. Not at all
Not at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had five-tier grading. Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not at all Not at all
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Not at all Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Not at all
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had five-tier grading. Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
How important are preclinical grades to you? Not important at all Not important at all Not important at all Somewhat important Very important
Somewhat important
Not important at all
Somewhat important Somewhat important Somewhat important Somewhat important
Not important at all Not important at all Somewhat important Somewhat important
Very important
Somewhat important
Not important at all Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important Somewhat important Not important at all Very important Somewhat important Not important at all
Somewhat important Not important at all
Somewhat important Not important at all Somewhat important Somewhat important
Somewhat important Somewhat important Somewhat important
Not important at all Somewhat important Somewhat important
Somewhat important Somewhat important Very important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important Not important at all Not important at all
Please feel free to add comments about the preclinical grading system.
I think the H/P/F system strikes an ideal balance between alleviating the intensity of stress of a 5-tier grading system while leaving a level of recognition available to the highest achievers (and I was rarely one of them). In a P/F system, I strongly believe that there would be less incentive for students to commit to the intense level of learning throughout the course of the first 2 years. This can only have a detrimental effect on their preparation for and achievement on Step1, which is already a daunting task but also essential for securing the residency position of choice. Moreover, certain PittMed scholarships (of which I have benefitted and enormously appreciate in reducing my overall debt burden by something like $60,000 over 4 years) reward academic achievement in the form of H grades monetarily, even if they are achieved in the non-basic science courses. Moreover, in my experiences with residency programs, grades in the preclinical coursework do not seem to play a major role in competitiveness anyway-but Step1 scores do, and early on in the preclinical years most students do not even know what the Steps are. They therefore need another reason to strive for academic excellence and I think that Pitt already somewhat lags behind other schools in terms of academic rigor (and the relevance of the information delivered in its curriculum to the practice of medicine) in the basic science courses (NOT true for the introduction to physical exam, introduction to patient care, and interviewing courses) and as an institution, needs to work harder to keep up with other similarly ranked schools academically in the preclinical years. The new curriculum lost us (class of 2010) a lot of ground in terms of our general knowledge base compared to our peers elsewhere in retrospect. When meeting with the program directors in my specialty they have nearly unanimously mentioned that they pay virtually no attention to pre-clinical years. If this is the case, why have an honors grade? Personally, my goal in each class was to attain a level of mastery that I was comfortable with. I never looked at my grades until 3rd year, and I was actually surprised by how well I did in several classes and blocks. Overall, this was a low stress attitude which worked well for me. The grading system had no influence on me.
Undue stress. Lends to competitive environment. Further promotes idea that we should be defined by numbers and not by our personal strengths. Not all great doctors are great test takers and should not be punished for it.
Catering to the whims of lower half of the class will decrease academic rigor and WILL NOT increase participation in research or extra curricular activities. If student wanted to participate then they did and if they worked hard a received honors in the process great. Don't lessen their achievement by making classes P/F. It is a trade-off. I do think the current grading system does give some motivation to excel academically during preclinical years; however, the tradeoff is that students are more stressed out, and are probably a little less likely to participate in extracurricular activities. Also, I think it tends to be the same 20% of people who continually get honors in preclinical courses, so the rest of us just sort of "give up" and stop trying for honors. If the system were entirely p/f, perhaps more people would be focused on learning the material as opposed to just achieving honors. In terms of the basic science classes, my biggest concern is not with the grading system but with the quality of lectures/syllabus. My biggest disappointment with the PittMed basic science education is that the majority of lecturers aren't effective and their syllabus are not organized and written in a way that facilitates learning. If we could improve the quality of PittMed's education, I would have learned more and would have been happier -- with or without H/HP/P.
Leave the grading system alone. If you decide to work very hard, you can get honors. If you decide to learn and not worry about knowing everything, you can get pass. The best of both worlds. You can change your intensity based on your schedule and time demands. The only place that P/F should be applied is to non-science preclinical year courses. There is no reason to have honors in IPC or PPS. For that matter, there is no reason to have 4 grades on a transcript for those courses.
I think pre-clinical grading at Pitt engenders a poisonous environment from the very beginning of medical school that sets the tone for the remainder of the time. It fosters an environment in which people become convinced very early on that if someone else wins, they necessarily lose. It undermines collaboration, excitement about ideas, and esprit de corps. Our institutional fixation on the H/P/F system is bizarre to me. Several of our peer institutions (Rochester, Sinai, and I believe UVA) use pass/fail in the pre-clinical years and seem to do just fine in terms of the match. I also can't imagine that it would change Step I scores all that much, although I don't know what the data say. I don't know how much it would change our institutional culture, but I hold out hope that a change to an H/P system would at least set a more humane tone for our medical education from the beginning. It certainly warrants a try. If people start to bomb Step I--an outcome which I would put in the "highly unlikely" category--we can always switch back.
I am unsure if class rank is kept in addition to the H/P/F, but I think it may be. If there is a class rank mentioned in the Dean's letter then H/P/F vs P/F doesn't matter so much. I think that Pitt Med can get caught up in the non-basic science courses too much and spend too much of the administration/instructor's time and too much of the students' time on the non basic science courses. Therefore I support making them P/F to de-emphasize them.
this switch to p/f really is a joke. people do not learn as well without the incentive of grades. i think to make it less stressful i would add high pass or something to that effect. the other psosibility is to make above a 90 honors because the difference between a 94 and a 96, which often is the difference between h/p, can be rather arbitrary. a lot of students are very close to honoring and this is a big difference than just passing but it does not show up as one. not having grades also makes studying for the boards a much more stressful experience. one bad day on the day of step I and you are toast. Personal crises and/or flu could really mess up that one day and you will not have your other years of good grades to fall back on. I know several schools which are pass/fail and the students do not do as well. Everything up to medical school has been for a grade for a reason.
I think it is important to distinguish the top students. If this can be done in an P/F fashion, I think that's fine. Residencies do care about a students' "ranking" relative to their class, although Pittmed says they do not rank, the grades to result in some kind of tiering.
Many of the students worry a lot about their grades. I remember a classmate telling me that Pitt actually does keep a class rank based on preclinical grades and was encouraging me to work harder to so I would because it goes out with letters to residencies. This student also encouraged me not to tell anyone so we had an advantage against all the other medical students. I ignored them since I really did not believe them, but this student is a typical student at Pitt Med. They are very competative and will strive to get ahead by any means, even if you tell them there is no secret list several times. I do not think the grading system affects the student mindset as much as everyone thinks it does and is instead a funciton of the type of student accepted. I doubt a change in the grading system will change the attitude of students once they arrive, because people have a very hard time changing. If the culture of the school is the impetus for the change in the grading system, I believe this is the wrong way to change the attitude of the student body.
I think that in the basic science/organ block courses it is appropriate to keep some type of grading scale. Maybe a 5 leveled (H/HP/P/LP/F) like what is used in the clinical years would be nice because achieving honors in the first two years is difficult especially in the block system used (it would be nice if say you did very well in genetics but then not so well in biochem that your grades could potentially reflect that with a HP in the block). As for all the non-basic science courses, I think P/F system would be fine. All those courses aside from maybe biostats seemed ambiguous in terms of grading from what I remember so it might be less stressful to not have a scaled grading system.
I personally believe that changing the preclinical year grading system to P/F would not decrease the rigor of the courses nor would it decrease the seriousness with which students learn the material. I believe Pitt Med students are academically rigorous in themselves as a quality selected for by our excellent admissions committee. I also do not believe that a P/F system in the preclinical years would substantially harm the residency prospects of our medical students. I do believe, 100%, however, that we should keep the current grading system in the clinical years. Many residencies have noted specifically they appreciate grades of Honors in specific specialties. Maintaining a rigorous grading system in the clinical years, with uniform (which we do not yet have) and stringent criteria for Honors and High Pass, should be a very high priority. I was distraught by the level of competition between students throughout the four years of medical school at Pitt. I must have been naive, because until I started medical school I had never experienced an antagonistic "academic" environment. (I place academic in quotes because I believe that the essence of the word is contrary to the anti-collegial atmosphere at Pitt) We are openly told to help each other learn as much as we can, but the system implicitly tells some people that they will be better rewarded if they put others down. I know for sure that if I had not been so negatively affected by the competitiveness encouraged at Pitt in the first two years, I would have learned more and performed better on Step 1. Additionally, The nasty habits formed by the H/P/F system in the first two years seems to set the groundwork for cut-throat rather than collaborative attitudes in years 3 and 4. Thank you for considering this policy change.
I feel we either need a pass fail system or a 5 tier system. It is horrible for you to try hard and miss honors by a few points and only get pass. Its either you reward people for hard work or you let people learn on their own accord with a pass fail system. The honors pass fail system is I think the worst kind of grading scale.
Year in medical school. If on a research year, please select the medical school year you last completed. MS-3 MS-4 MS-4 MS-3 MS-4
MS-4
MS-4
MS-4 MS-3 MS-3 MS-3
MS-4 MS-4 MS-4 MS-4
MS-3
MS-4
MS-4 MS-4
MS-4
MS-4
MS-4 MS-4 MS-4 MS-4 MS-4 MS-3
MS-3 MS-4
MS-3 MS-4 MS-4 MS-4
MS-4 MS-3 MS-4
MS-2 MS-4 MS-3
MS-4 MS-4 MS-4
MS-4
MS-4 MS-4 MS-4
MS-4 MS-3
What specialty are you applying into?
Internal Medicine General Surgery
I would be more likely to attend lunch talks. 1 3 2 3 3
Internal Medicine
Emergency Medicine
family medicine/psychiatry combined Radiology not sure
3 3 3 3
Peds Orthopaedics Family Medicine Internal Medicine
2 3 3 3
???
Internal medicine
Ophthalmology Emergency Medicine
2 3
orthopaedics
Emergency Medicine Ob/gyn Dermatology internal medicine Psychiatry
3 3 3 3 3 3
unknown Emergency Medicine
3 1
Internal medicine IM
5 3 1 3
not sure Diagnostic Radiology
3 1 3
Pediatrics Otolaryngology FM or PM&R
3 3 3
Radiology Internal Medicine
3 3
Psychiatry
internal medicine Internal Medicine
3 2 3
Radiology
3 1 2.787234043
I would be more likely to volunteer or participate in community service. 5 3 2 3 3
3 2 3 3
2 2 3 2
2 1
3 3 2 3 3 2
3 1
5 2 1 3
2 1 3
3 3 3
3 3 2
2 2 2
1 1 2.5
I would be more likely to attend optional classes (lectures, labs). 1 3 2 5 3
3 3 3 3
1 3 3 3
2 2
2 2 1 3 3 3
3 2
5 3 1 3
3 1 3
3 3 5
3 3 5
3 2 4
5 1 2.875
Do you strive for honors in preclinical courses? Sometimes Sometimes Sometimes Always Always
Always
Rarely
Rarely Rarely Always Always
Always Sometimes Sometimes Sometimes
Sometimes
Always Always
Always
Always
Sometimes Always Sometimes Always Rarely Rarely
Sometimes Rarely
Always Rarely Sometimes
Rarely Always Always
Rarely Sometimes Rarely
Always Rarely Always
Sometimes
Rarely Always Rarely
Sometimes Always
How satisfied are you with the current grading scheme in the preclinical years? Satisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied Satisfied Very satisfied
Very satisfied
Unsatisfied
Very satisfied Satisfied Satisfied Satisfied
Unsatisfied Satisfied Satisfied Satisfied
Satisfied
Satisfied Unsatisfied
Very satisfied
Satisfied
Unsatisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied Very satisfied Satisfied Satisfied
Satisfied Satisfied Unsatisfied
Satisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied
Unsatisfied Satisfied Satisfied
Satisfied Very satisfied Very satisfied
Unsatisfied
Very unsatisfied Unsatisfied Unsatisfied
Very unsatisfied Unsatisfied
In which blocks did you receive honors? Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introdu Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#
OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basi
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basi Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2 Prefer not to answer
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reaso Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reaso OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3 Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematology/Endocrine/Repro &
GI/Hematology/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Pati
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Pati
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematology/Endocrine/Rep
Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Rea Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2 Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scienti Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reaso
Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Rea Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Patient, Physician & Society 2
Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer
Prefer not to answer Basic Science of Care Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Pati
OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Pharmacology Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#GI/Hematology/Endocrine/Repro & Prefer not to answer
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematology/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Phys Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to
Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reaso
OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Scientific Reasoning 1 Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reaso
I am motivated to learn my non-basic science course material very well. 1 1 3 3 5
3 3 4 2
3 3 4 2
3 3
3 1 3 5 2 4
4 3
5 4 1 2
4 1 3
3 4 3
3 4 4
3 2 3
5 1 3.145833333
I would learn my non-basic science course material better. 5 3 4 3 5
3 3 5 2
3 3 3 4
3 1
3 1 3 5 4 3
4 1
5 4 5 4
4 1 4
3 3 3
3 4 4
1 2 3
1 1 3.1875
I would be more likely to take a MiniElective.
I would be more likely to be involved in a student group.
I would be more likely to take on a leadership position.
I would learn my I would be basic more likely to science I would be more engage in course likely to shadow a recreational material physician. activities. better.
I would be I would be more a better likely to candidate participat for e in residency. research.
3 4
2 5
2 5
1 5
1 5
3 2
3 5
3 3
4 3
4 1
4 2
4 1
4 1
4 1
3 3
3 1
3 3
3 4
3 2
3 3
3 2
4 3
5 3
3 2
3 3 2.177777778
1 3 3 3 2.2222222 2.466666667 2.377777778 2.363636364
3 3 3 3.1777777 3.0888888 2.4888888
I would experienc e less stress in my life.
My classmates would experience less stress in their lives.
Pitt Med would be a very collaborative environment.
Pitt Med would be an academically rigorous environment.
I am motivated to learn my basic science course material very well.
1 1
1 1
2 1
3 5
3 5
4 1
5 1
4 1
3 2
3 2
2 2
2 1
2 1
3 4
3 3
3 2 2
4 3 3.577777778
4 3 3.136363636
3 1 1.7333333 1.422222222
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, How important are Would you support a proposal to change preclinical grading negatively, or not at preclinical grades to from H/P/F to P/F? all? you?
Yes - for basic-science courses only
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have fivetier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Somewhat important
No
Very important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
No
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Somewhat important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not important at all
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Very important
Somewhat important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Yes - for basic-science courses only No
Somewhat important Very important
No
Not at all
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have fivetier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Very important
Not at all
Somewhat important
No
Not at all
Very important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have fivetier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not important at all
Not at all
Somewhat important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Not important at all
No
Not at all
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
No
Not at all
Very important
No
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Somewhat important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important
Very important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have fivetier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Somewhat important Not at all Very important
Not at all
Not at all
Somewhat important
No
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Somewhat important
No
Not at all
Somewhat important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have fivetier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Very important
No Yes - for all preclinical courses
Somewhat important Somewhat important
Year in medical school. If on a research year, please select the medical school year you last completed.
MS-2 While I do agree the H/P/F system probably presses students into unhealthy levels of stress, I believe that P/F system would go too far in the opposite direction where some students would not push themselves as hard to learn the material. MS-2
Medical Oncology
Surgery
MS-2
Psychiatry
I think that a pass/fail system would greatly reduce the stress and sincerely believe that students would continue to study effectively. I felt with the grading system I focused on the syllabus material to get a better grade when often I would have learned more if I focused on understanding the material with whatever resources would have been most helpful. In regards to the first several questions on this survey I think adding a grade component to shadowing or leadership activities or community projects would be a terrible idea. Our entire life should not be dictated by requirements and by the medical school. MS-3
Pediatrics
MS-3
Surgery
H/P/F is the number #1 thing that is wrong with our school.
MS-3
MS-2
Internal Medicine
MS-3
Medicine
MS-3
Surgery
MS-3
peds
I think that by the time we start medical school, students are mature enough to direct their own learning. We are here to become doctors and want to learn, even without a carrot (Honors) dangled in front of us. Besides, there's always Step 1 waiting at the end of second year to act as the stick. H/P/F encourages students to learn for multiple choice tests instead of learning for clinical situations. So students cram, memorize details, and rely on cues in the question stems instead of understanding the big picture. As a result, they forget those details by the end of the next block instead of carrying understanding into their clinical years. It also sets up a competitive environment that discourages collaboration, increases stress, and makes Pitt Med a less attractive school to attend. MS-3
Pediatrics
MS-3 MS-3
Emergenc y medicine
I feel that H/P/F is a fair system, as it rewards those who really want to work hard and be recognized for their performance, while not penalizing those just trying to get by. I know that I certainly worked harder in the non-basic science courses so that I could get that recognition. I also never felt like PittMed was a competitive place, and always felt that my colleagues were very helpful. However, I don't think it matters much, in the end, as preclinical grades do not seem to be that important. MS-3
Pathology
Honors encourages student to memorize the random focuses of the lectures instead of getting a solid core knowledge and following the material that interests them most. This problem is compounded by at times poorly written tests that focus on syllabus list memorization. P/F would encourage students to learn what they think they need to know to be a good doctor.
MS-3
peds
I probably worked harder because of the H/P/F system but at the expense of more stress. I think it's a good thing to the extent that it encourages people to learn the material better, but is completely useless for non-basic science courses.
MS-3
Unsure
MS-3
Undecide d
MS-3
psychiatry
It seems most of us are scared enough of becoming bad doctors that, even without the chance to honor, we'd study enough to learn what we need to in the first two years. Meanwhile, the people who care about honoring more than they care about learning might be forced to step back and think about what really makes a good doctor and why they're even in medicine in the first place. Does anyone who's been there and done that, i.e., faculty, really think that honoring basic science courses is a decent predictor of eventually having a satisfying, successful career in medicine? Maybe only if your goal is to one day be a radiologist or plastic surgeon, and students who aspire to those specialties are free to distinguish themselves by rocking out on Step 1. I only favor the retention of H/P/F in preclinical non-basic science courses (i.e., ELP, MDM, BIS, MLM, BSoC, interviewing, PE) because these classes are already ghetto-ized enough by the curriculum. If you think students don't take them seriously now (and trust me, they don't), then just wait until you do away with the chance to honor them. MS-3
Med/peds , psych?
The grades don't make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. They don't tell you anything about how good of a clinician a student is going to be. MS-3
Urology
The idea that a H/P/F system is any better than a 5-tier grading system is a joke. There is possibly even more competition, since if you don't get into the top 15% of the class to get honors, all your hard work means nothing. Furthermore, the added stress of pushing to achieve the honors butchers the intellectual curiosity and interest in studying for the pursuit of knowledge that I had in classes that were solely P/F. If we didn't want to learn we wouldn't be here. I have so much I want to look up and learn about, but it's not possible because I was always so busy trying to learn the random mundane facts I knew they would test on. Years later, I don't remember the little uninteresting facts they had us memorize, and I wish I had had more time to get a better understanding of the major systems as it is the basic understanding that you try to build on during the clinical years. MS-3
surgery Emergenc y Medicine
MS-3
Having gone through both clinical and preclinical years, I feel that the time to distinguish myself is on the clinical years. Preclinical years are fraught with differences in students' backgrounds, time away from school, exposure to science courses, colleges, etc. and should necessarily allow for a leveling of the playing field (namely a P/F system). I feel that by the time third year rolls around people are on a more level playing field (narrower bell curve) and that this would be the time to allow for people to distinguish themselves. I do understand the argument for allowing us to set ourselves apart. But if Dr. Levine is correct in saying "we're one of the best schools these days," then I think it's about time we become more progressive in our thinking towards grading and what they are really for. MS-3 I would guess that a large portion of the class is unaffected by the h/p/f system; as, statistically, less than a fifth of the class will ever get honors, and maybe another fifth thought they were close enough to get honors. That leaves at least half of the class who will not be impacted by the lure of honors. I often found myself in this latter half of the class, so I think my learning was mostly unaffected by the grading system. The question would be, does that statistical two-fifths of the class find the added motivation of honors classes necessary for their education? Another question I would pose - do we want to produce doctors who need some sort of outside grading scheme to motivate them to educate themselves? MS-3
Internal Medicine / Family Medicine
Emergenc y Medicine
In my assessment, there are two possible reasons for arguing for a shift to a P/F system. The first is to encourage a different educational environment and the second is to shift the relative importance of years 1-2 vs 3-4. I feel that a shift to P/F would place greater importance on year 3, which I believe to be the most critical assessment of your potential as a resident. Your performance in this environment depends on your interpersonal skills as much as your textbook knowledge and I feel this is the most important parameter to assess your potential success in residency. My experience as a MS-III has shown me its not about how many pimp questions you get right but how hard you're willing to work and how you are able to collaborate and fit in with a perpetually changing cast of characters. Personally, I think that driving a shift to P/F based on commentary on a collaborative environment is not productive; there will always be students who are poorly adjusted and self-serving as we saw with the 2011 cheating scandal (which I might add, was my class). I do not think such a shift would have prevented this from happening. If the purpose of this change is to alleviate the pressure on students so that they don't cheat, I think you guys have a shortsided and naive view of human nature and I believe you won't accomplish your goal. Thanks for the opportunity to respond. MS-3 Orthopae dics
I think current first and second years are making this a bigger deal than it really is. Getting a passing grade at Pitt still means you are an above average student. I've heard residency directors state (and I quote) "Schools that don't offer honors grades are doing a great disservice to their students. When we get initial applications for residency positions, the only information we receive on each student is how many classes they honored, their step 1 score, and whether or not they did research. Letters of recommendation don't usually tell us that much initially because EVERY student has good letters of recommendation. So we nearly always make our initial cut based on number of honors grades, step 1 score, and research. Schools that don't offer honors grades therefore are doing a great disservice to their students." MS-3
Medicine/ Cardiology or Medicine/ Critical Care
Changing to P/F would increase collaboration and enjoyment of learning, decrease stress, and should not negatively impact residency application. Students will still be plenty motivated to do the material.
MS-2
Child psychiatry
MS-3
Orthopae dic Surgery
It's reasonable to award an honors grade to people scoring 1 sd above the mean (someone with a 95% should not get the same grade as someone with a 65% or a near failing score)
MS-3
undecided
MS-4
Pathology
MS-3
Undecide d
MS-3 MS-3 Undecide d
I considered applying internally for the MSTP program so I gave up the notion to honor my first 2 years so as to be able to work in the lab 20+ hours / week. I feel that if the grading system were designed P/F we would not feel penalized for having a more enriched first two years of medical school. People would also be able to take the time to study for their Step 1 during that time, thus learning more concepts and standardized basics, instead of stressing over the minutia that one lecturer considers important enough to be placed on a multiple choice exam that rarely assesses anything beyond rote memorization. Granted, there is the possibility that some people would "slack off" without an H to distinguish the "top tier". However, those that can achieve the top tier are more likely to be ones to supplement their education with more creative experiences so as to distinguish themselves during the residency application process. That seems like a more enriching use of time than countless hours of memorizing lecture slides. MS-3 For years, first and second years have been complaining about the preclinical H/P/F system. A change to P/F would penalize students who truly excel in a particular course, and who deserve to have the opportunity to have this show up on their transcript. For the most part, this change to the grading system will not affect a majority of the students. Anyways, the grades one receives during first and second year (provided that one doesn't fail a course) are irrelevant in the long run. I strongly believe that simply changing to a P/F system will NOT provide major changes to the extracurricular activities, shadowing, and leadership positions that students are currently participating in, as seemed to be implied by the simplistic survey that preceded my comments here. MS-2
Medicine
Internal medicine
MS-2
neurosurg ery
MS-2
surgery
MS-3
Anesthesi a
MS-3
Radiology
MS-3
MS-3
An H/P/F grading system provides distinction for those who are able to achieve at the highest level, and this should be maintained. Third-year grades and Step 1 scores are by far the most important academic qualifications for residency match; one can conclude from this that a series of "P's" in pre-clinical coursework, coupled with an excellent Step 1 score, should not hurt when applying to residency. Rather, we should allow those who are able to succeed to the level of the "H" to reap the additional benefit that may have on their applications. In short, "P's" do not hurt, "H's" can only look good, so why get rid of the "H"? MS-3 MS-3 I understand somewhat why people are pushing to remove the honors category, however, we are going to be faced with being evaluated all of our lives and it is each person's own choice to turn that into stress, use it as motivation, or ignore it completely. I do not think that removing honors is a good idea. I think it is a good idea that medical students chill out, but I don't think that removing honors is going to do anything about it. MS-3 MS-2
General Surgery
Pathology pediatrics
I would be more likely to attend I would be more likely to lunch volunteer or participate talks. in community service.
I would be more likely to attend optional classes (lectures, labs).
How satisfied are you with the Do you strive for current grading honors in scheme in the preclinical courses? preclinical years?
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Always
Satisfied
Never
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
1 5
2 5
3 5
Rarely Sometimes
Satisfied Very satisfied
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Rarely
Satisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Very unsatisfied
4 2
4 2
4 3
Rarely Sometimes
Satisfied Satisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
3 3
3 2
3 4
Always Sometimes
Very satisfied Satisfied
2 3 2.822222222
Rarely Never
Satisfied Satisfied
3 3 2.6888888 2.244444444
I am motivated to In which blocks learn my non-basic did you receive science course honors? material very well.
I would learn my non-basic science course material better.
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 1
Prefer not to answer
Introduction to Patient Care 4 3
Prefer not to answer 2 Neuroscience/P sychiatry;#GI/H ematology/End ocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patien t, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 3 Prefer not to answer
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 4
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscienc e/Psychiatry;#O S2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#G I/Hematology/E ndocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patien t, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 3 Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacolo gy;#Introductio n to Patient Care 3 1
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Basic Science of Care;#Pharmac ology;#Introduc tion to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 2
Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 1 Prefer not to answer 5
1 5
Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 4
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 1
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscienc e/Psychiatry;#O S2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#G I/Hematology/E ndocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patien t, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacolo gy;#Introductio n to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction 3
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscienc e/Psychiatry;#O S2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#G I/Hematology/E ndocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patien t, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacolo gy;#Introductio n to Patient 5
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#G I/Hematology/E ndocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patien t, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacolo gy;#Introductio n to Patient Care 3 4
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 5
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 3
Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 3
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 4
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Neuroscienc e/Psychiatry;#P atient, Physician & Society 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 3 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscienc e/Psychiatry;#O S2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#G I/Hematology/E ndocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patien t, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacolo gy 5
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscienc e/Psychiatry;#P atient, Physician & Society 1;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3 4 Prefer not to answer
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 3 1
Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer
4 2
4 1
Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3 4
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Introduct ion to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3 3
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Neuroscienc e/Psychiatry;#S cientific Reasoning 2 3
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscienc e/Psychiatry;#O S2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#G I/Hematology/E ndocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Scienti fic Reasoning 3;#Pharmacolo gy 3
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscienc e/Psychiatry;#O S2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#G I/Hematology/E ndocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Scienti fic Reasoning 1;#Pharmacolo gy 3
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscienc e/Psychiatry;#G I/Hematology/E ndocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patien t, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Pharmacolo gy;#Introductio n to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 4
Neuroscience/P sychiatry;#OS2: Body Fluid Homeostasis;#G I/Hematology/E ndocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacolo gy 3 Prefer not to answer 3
4 3
Scientific Reasoning 1 Prefer not to answer
4 3 3.044444444
3 3 3.066666667
1 1
2 3 1
2 3
1 1 3 1 1
1 1
1 3
3 3 3
1 1 3
2 3
3 2 3
3 3 3 3
2 1
3 2 1 3
2 2 2
3 3 2 1 1
1 3
1 2 3 5
3 2 2 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 3 2 1
1 1 1
3 3 1 3 1 1
3 3
3 2 5 1 3 1 1
3 1
3 3 3 2.116504854
2 1
2 5 1
2 3
2 1 3 2 1
1 3
3 1
3 3 3
1 1 2
1 2
3 2 3
2 3 2 3
3 1
2 2 3 3
2 3 2
3 3 1 1 1
1 3
2 3 3 4
3 2 1 1 3 3 3 1 1 3 1 2 3
3 1 2
3 3 1 3 1 2
2 2
3 3 3 1 3 1 1
3 1
3 3 3 2.207920792
1 1
3 5 1
2 3
1 2 3 2 1
1 3
3 1
3 3 3
1 1 3
1 1
3 2 3
2 5 2 3
3 1
3 3 5 3
3 2 2
3 3 5 1 1
1 3
2 3 3 4
3 3 1 1 3 3 3 2 1 3 1 5 3 3 1
1 1 2
3 3 1 3 1 1
1 3
3 3 3 1 1 3 1
3 1
2 3 3 2.300970874
I would be more likely to shadow a physician.
1 1
1 5 1
1 2
1 1 3 1 1
1 4
2 1
3 3 3
1 1 2
1 2
3 2 3
2 3 2 3
2 1
2 3 5 3
3 1 1
3 3 2 1 1
2 3
2 2 3 4
3 3 1 1 3 2 3 1 1 5 1 2 3 1 1
1 1 2
2 2 1 3 1 1
1 2
3 3 3 1 2 3 1
3 1
2 3 3 2.087378641
I would be more likely to engage in recreational activities.
2 1
1 5 1
1 2
1 1 3 1 1
1 3
3 1
2 3 3
1 1 2
1 1
3 2 2
3 2 1 3
2 1
2 2 3 3
2 2 2
3 3 3 1 1
1 3
2 2 3 1
3 2 1 3 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 2 3 2 1
1 1 2
1 3 1 3 1 1
1 2
3 3 2 1 3 3 1
3 1
3 3 3 2.009803922
I would learn my basic science course material better.
5 1
4 5 5
2 3
4 5 3 3 1
3 1
2 1
5 3 3
4 1 2
5 4
5 5 5
3 5 3 3
3 1
1 5 4 4
4 2 3
3 3 4 1 2
4 4
3 3 3 1
3 3 5 3 5 5 3 3 3 4 1 5 3 1 1
3 3 5
4 3 1 3 1 3
5 3
3 5 4 1 4 4 1
3 1
4 3 3 3.174757282
I would be a better candidate for residency.
I would be more likely to participate in research.
3 1
1 1
4 5 1
3 5 1
2 2
3 3
5 2 5 2 1
3 3 3 1
3 3
1 1
3 1
3 1
5 2 3
3 3
4 1 3
1 1 2
1 4
3 2
3 2 3
3 2 3
2 3 4 3
3 3 3 3
3 1
3 1
1 3 4 4
1 2 5 3
4 1 2
3 2 2
1 5 5 1 1
3 3 4 1 1
1 4
1 3
2 3 3 1
2 3 3 1
3 2 2 1 4 3 4 2 1 5 1 2 3 2 1
3 3 2 2 3 3 3 1 1 5 1 2 3 3 1
3 3 5
2 1 3
4 3 1 3 1 3
3 3 1 3 1 1
2 3
2 2
4 3 4 1 3 4 1
3 3 2 3 2 3 1
3 1
3 1
3 3 3 2.637254902
2 3 3 2.346534653
I would experience less stress in my life.
1 1
1 3 2
1 1
1 1 1 1 1
1 1
3 2 3
1 1 1
1 1
3 2 2
3 2 1 2
1 1
2 2 2 3
3 2 1
2 3 1 1 1
1 3
1 2 3 1
3 1 1 2 3 2 2 3 1 2 2 2 1 2 1
1 1 2
1 2 1 1 1
2 2
3 3 2 1 2 1 1
3 1
3 2 1 1.712871287
1 1
1 3 2
1 1
1 1 1 1 1
1 1
1 1
2 1 3
1 1 1
2 2
2 1 2
1 2 1 1
1 1
1 1 1 1
2 2 1
1 2 1 1 1
1 3
1 1 3 1
3 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 2 1
1 1 1
1 1 1 1 1 1
1 1
3 2 1 1 2 1 1
2 1
2 1 1 1.330097087
Pitt Med would be a very collaborative environment.
2 1
3 3 2
1 1
2 2 2 2 1
1 1
3 2
3 1 3
1 1 2
1 3
3 3 3
3 2 1 1
1 1
1 3 3 3
3 2 2
2 3 1 1
1 3
2 2 3 2
3 2 1 2 3 2 3 2 1 2 1 2 2 2 1
2 1 1
3 1 1 1 1 1
1 2
3 3 3 3 3 1 1
2 1
3 1 1 1.900990099
Pitt Med would be an academically rigorous environment.
3 1
4 5 3
3 3
4 2 5 3 1
3 5
3 3
5 3 3
4 3 3
5 4
3 5 5
5 5 5 5
3 1
1 5 5 2
5 3 4
3 3 4 1 1
4 3
3 3 3 1
3 3 3 2 5 5 3 5 3 4 5 4 3 3 1
5 3 5
4 1 3 5 1 3
3 3
3 4 4 2 5 4 1
3 1
4 2 3 3.339805825
I am motivated to learn my basic science course material very well.
3 1
4 5 5
3 3
4 3 3 3 1
3 5
3 2
5 3
4 1 3
5 4
5 5 5
3 3 3 3
3 1
1 3 5 4
4 3 3
3 3 4 1 2
5 4
3 3 3 1
3 3 2 5 5 4 3 3 3 5 1 5 3 3 1
3 3 5
4 3 1 3 1 3
5 3
3 3 4 1 4 4 1
3 1
3 2 3 3.176470588
Would you support a proposal to change preclinical grading from H/P/F to P/F?
Yes - for non-basic science courses only Yes - for non-basic science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for non-basic science courses only
No
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for non-basic science courses only
No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for non-basic science courses only
No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
Yes - for basic-science courses only Yes - for non-basic science courses only No No
Yes - for all preclinical courses No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
Yes - for basic-science courses only Yes - for non-basic science courses only
No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses No Yes - for non-basic science courses only Yes - for non-basic science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for non-basic science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for basic-science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for basic-science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
No Yes - for all preclinical courses No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for non-basic science courses only No Yes - for all preclinical courses
Yes - for non-basic science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, negatively, or not at all?
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
Not at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Not at all
Not at all
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
Not at all
Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Not at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Not at all
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Not at all
Not at all
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Not at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had five-tier grading.
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses.
Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
Not at all
Not at all
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all
Not at all Not at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.
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Please freespeak to add comments about the ... preclinical grading system. I guess feel I would by way of this example a few of my classmates whom I most respect are currently doing a Schweitzer fellowship. These are people I hang out with, am close with, and one of whom I live with ... so this isn't through the grapevine information. Anyway, they put in a ton of good work in the community, doing the kind of longitudinal tasks that make life better for the forgotten members of our city (I know this because I now co-run 2 organizations, both of which have their roots in previous years Schweitzers), and before every test I watch them - these, to me, are the shining stars of my class, mind you - I watch them sweat and claw to just finish well below the mean on the test. I often joke with them and say they deserve 10 points on each test - and it's only half a joke. Why? Because they are competing with other people whose service to others is minimal at best and who have lots more time to study - I can't speak to the motivations of others but I bet for many it's a desire to have those awesome grades to get that good residency and, in the end, let's be honest - live that cush life. Who in medical school hasn't contemplated it? In short, the heroes of my class choose to handicap themselves both short term and long term for the benefit of others, and are then asked to compete on a playing field that is not level (for them). I don't like it, both for its lack of fairness and for the tone it sets for the rest of your career - you must literally - penalize yourself to help others. No wonder we hear these jokes about, "We read all your entrance essays and know you are altruistic people, but we also know what you'll become." When a majority of people change that much in 4 - 5 years (and yes, of course, some people are lying on their entrance app), you know powerful social forces are at play. One of these forces is our grading system. The point is this - I want to do a Schweitzer - but basically, I'm scared to give myself that much of a disadvantage academically. I'm a non-trad liberal arts major for whom everything, from day one, has been new material. I don't enjoy that "second time around" effect. I even think I might take a year off to do research (which I would enjoy too) mostly just so I can also have something like a normal schedule and so I can do a Schweitzer - at least that's my thinking at this time. (Debt could change that thinking). Long story short - the heroes of my class are hurt by an academic system which forces them to do
I feel that the H/P/F system for science classes is absolutely necessary. There has to be a way to distinguish students who excel from those who are squeaking by. In my opinion, Pitt med (at least the class of 2012) is already an EXTREMELY collaborative environment. I do not feel that there is anyone who strives for honors at the expense of his or her classmates' learning. I really believe the only people who complain about the H/P/F system are those who never earn honors. At the same time, I think the non-science courses REALLY need to be changed to P/F only. You really cannot equate an honors grade in a basic science block with an "honors" grade in a course like ELP or MLM. It is in my opinion unfair to those who earn honors in science courses that people who simply show up to every (insert non-science course here) lecture receive the exact same "H" on their transcript. In these classes, the existence of "honors" does nothing to distinguish exceptional work the way it does in science courses. Compared to my friends at P/F schools, they have way more class cohesiveness whereas we are lucky if we get more people than the usual 30 (aka 4/5 of the class is absent) at an event.
Honors helps distinguish your hard preclinical school work in specialties that value this (some programs feel preclinical grades show long-term work ethic).
Students who are motivated to learn the material well will do so regardless of the grading system because they know they will need the information to become a competent physician. The "honors" grade stresses some students out who it often times seems like they only want to get honors in order to have the grade on their transcript rather than because it will make them a better physician. And if it is true that pre-clinical grades really don't matter, then there seems to be little point to having an honors grade option on exams.
There is not enough explanation/transparency in exactly how grades are determined. More specifically, I don't know how small group grades are factored in. I don't know what the average small group score is nor the standard deviation of these scores, and how exactly everything is calculated in order to obtain the final grade for the block (h/p/f). The policies should be made so clear that every student should be able to calculate his or her grade (H/P/f) if given all their scores, the average scores, and the standard deviations of both the exam and the small group (and all this information SHOULD be given). Also, the pharm and renal exams were made too easy and thus averages on the pharm and renal exams were very high. As a result, even one question wrong on these exams is a huge deal for a student near the honors/pass cutoff. If you can only miss one or two or three questions before falling below honors, that means that the grading on that exam is too coarse and does not finely evaluate the students' knowledge.
1. If the UMPC ENT Program Director tells us that preclinical grades don't matter, I believe it. 2. Starting medical school is such a difficult transition, and we need our classmates to support each other. Setting up a competition from the outset isn't the way to foster a community. 3. Finally, it seems to me that have a H/P/F system while talking about "teamwork" and how medicine is a team discipline is just hypocritical. I think we'd learn a lot more from each other if we weren't worried that adding to someone's knowledge base might hurt our own grades. 4. Full disclosure: After coming quite close in anatomy, I abandoned honors in favor of having a life. I decided that, for my purposes, this school is pass/fail. Spending my weekends studying and/or exhausted wasn't conducive to being a productive member of my class, the university, or the community at large. I feel I have learned far more from my extracurricular activities, volunteering, and developing friendships than I would have in those extra few hours at Scaife. Maybe it's my own bias, but I really think that I'll be a better doctor for having taken care of myself during med school.
I do not feel a change to the grading system is needed. If students wish to work hard for whatever reason (internal drive, desire to match into a competitive residency, etc.) they should be allowed to have their hard work reflected on their transcript by the possibility of achieving Honors. Student attendance of lectures or engagement in extra-curricular activities is a function of the student's personal desire, the quality of those things offered, and most often time. For example, notoriously bad lecturers or disorganized courses have poor attendance while good lectures usually have better attendance. This is not a function of the grading system. I have talked with countless students who could not take mini-electives because they fall during required clinic time. At question is more the attitude of the students that develops with a certain grading system in place. If all students are competitive only with themselves and don't worry about their standing in relative terms, the grading system doesn't matter - students will work hard for themselves only. This could also be accomplished using an H/P/F system that determines Honors on absolute terms (i.e. a raw cutoff, like 90% on any exam) rather than on relative terms (i.e. standard deviations) - something that I don't hear discussed often or at frankly at all. Something could also be said for the type of student coming to Pitt Med. Over the years the school has become more elite and students matriculating at elite schools are typically more grade-conscious and competitive. Thus, the grading system might not even matter because this attitude is ingrained. Faculty and administration could also do a better job of relating to the students what really matters. Literature suggests pre-clinical grades don't matter much except for some select fields. The administration is probably reluctant to state as much overtly because they want us to work hard. Their challenge seems to be making us want to learn for learning's sake vs. learning for a grade, and this seems something they cannot solve through changing a grading system. Subsequently, the administration could try to level with us, or have the residency directors come speak with us during MS1 (a nice and informative lecture anyway regardless of whether it addressed grades!). Ultimately, I don't think changing the grading system or not changing the grading system will have I feel that the greatest strengths of a p/f system would be in the potential to enhance collaboration among students, to foster more involvement in the community, and to prioritize the development of students as empathetic care providers. We will have to learn and indeed want to learn all the basic science material that we can for the care of patients, not for a grade. It's nice for a small percentage of classmates to be seen as excelling, but I believe the types of students who come to Pitt are here because they can hold themselves accountable to academic material without the proverbial carrot on a stick. I believe for most students, Honors comes as unneeded stress, and to a few, reason to avoid collaboration. H's sure look pretty on my transcript, but I'd give them up for the peace of mind of my classmates. On another note: I think it would be beneficial to receive some form of correspondence back from a course director after the completion of each course to overview the grades, common confusion on the exam, and a general reaction to course evaluations. I'd like to know what changes are being made (if any), to show responsiveness and accountability.
The system's certainly not broken as it stands, but I tend to think the P/F system preferable for a group of individuals who are already highly motivated to learn. It eliminates an artificial source of stress for some of the students. Maybe a few of the "gunners" (if you'll pardon the use of such a stereotypical term) will feel able to experience medical school and the medical profession a little more fully rather than feeling guilty if they don't spend all of their time poring over basic science / organ system texts. However, there are a lot of "maybes" involved and it's possible that switching to P/F wouldn't actually help. Summary: it's fine as it stands but P/F seems preferable to H/P/F. Disclaimer: as you may note above, I'm not generally the "Honors" type so I may have a small bias going. I do not feel that the grading system places undue stress on students. Getting honors is a motivator, but 85% of the students will not honor a given block. So, I don't feel that I will "look bad" if I don't honor a course. A five-tiered grading system would be much more stressful. I think rather than changing the grading system, instead one could stress that getting honors isn't that important. A couple main points: 1) Only 15% of students get honors, but if one looks at Pitt's match list almost everyone goes to a strong residency program 2) Preclinical grades are way down the list of what residencies care about Also, being stressed and studying constantly with no life (i.e. 'gunning') is an innate personality trait of many medical students. A grading system change won't change that. With a P/F grading system, I think students would be equally motivated to learn the material well, but be less stressed while doing it.
I answered the questions, but I do not feel strongly about the preclinical grading system. This is in large part because I do not understand the ramifications of changing the system vs. leaving it as it is. I have been graded all my life is some form or another, but when I look back now, I probably could only remember a handful of specific grades that I received, and only in the recent past. My biggest concerns would be 1) how does the change affect student's propensity to cheat and 2) how are these things viewed by residencies? Thank you for taking on this difficult issue. Theorectically P/F sounds wonderful, but to be honest if we did not have honors in the grading system much less material would be learned, students would have no reason to 'learn the details' (which are important) and there would be no competition for the over-achievers to try their hardest (a little competition is a good thing!)
Even though the grading system at Pitt did not affect my decision to come here, it definitely affects others and I have found myself trying to reassure applicants who are concerned about our system when they have justseems come to from manymixed other schools that simply P/F. The medical school be so sending messages to are its students. On the one hand, faculty members want to foster an atmosphere of collaboration between students and seem to severely frown upon outright competition. On the other hand, they appear to undermine their own desires by using the H/P/F grading system and recognizing AOA, which at Pitt is essentially a secret society where the requirements for induction are completely unbeknownst to most students. With regard to grading, several top-tier schools have implemented the P/F system and studies have shown that such a system helps foster an atmosphere of collaboration amongst students and does not have a significant impact on academic performance. For this reason, I would support the adoption of P/F grading, which would help alleviate a lot of stress from my classmates as well as for myself. To be fair, there are some students who need the H/P/F system to remain motivated, and perhaps their performance would suffer if the school were to transition to a new system. I do think that these people are in the minority and that most students would strive to do well, especially if the university emphasized/continue to emphasize the importance of Step 1 (and how working hard now will pay dividends) from the first day of medical school. Personally, I retain material better from classes that Ive honored than with classes I passed, but this effect only seems to last for a few months (e.g. I can barely recall anything from the Neuro/Psych block). On a side note, Ive also noticed that with the current block grading system, some students who strive for honors seem to underperform if they do poorly on a previous exam and have no chance of getting honors in the block. It would be difficult to determine how a change in the grading system would affect them. If the university does decide to keep the H/P/F system, I would like to suggest the following: 1) Please post the honors cutoff on the Zone (especially since there is occasional discrepancy between the statistical cutoff and true cutoff). As in clinical practice, transparency is a good thing. 2) Similarly, let students know the process behind AOA induction. 3) Consider making shorter basic science blocks; the GI/Heme/Endo/Repro block is ridiculously long and can adversely affect students who do not do well on a particular test. 4) Remove honors from IPC. It would be nice if the first two years of medical school were based on objective metrics, since the last two years have such a significant subjective component. Grades should be a measurement of performance and I dont think the grades in IPC adequately reflect this. First, facilitators have drastically different (and sometimes
I think the H/P/F system is just fine. If you want to try hard to get honors, then you can. If you just want to think of the class as P/F, then you can do the bare minimum if you want. I don't understand people making statements like "the H/P/F system drives people to cheat" (in reference to the recent exam distribution scandal). It's utterly ridiculous. Crazy students will always find something new to blame their stress on, rather than focusing on leading a healthy life. I hope there is not a change from the current grading system.
I dont mind honors/pass/fail...what i do mind is that four classes are lumped into one block. it makes it nearly impossible to honor a class and hard to take pride in the classes you do do really well in. you are sort of defeated before you even begin, even if you are striving for honors in every class. what on earth is the value of having a grade for a block and honors/pass/fail within each class in the block? its just preposterous. How can anyone expect to honor anything in second year with such a system!?!? and then you lose motivation to really strive in every class because even honoring is meaningless. I think having the possibility of honoring a class is a good thing. I think it motivates some people to learn more. I haven't stressed about it because I have thought that I am unlikely to honor basic science courses so I have treated them as if they are p/f. I think that I have tried harder in the nonbasic science courses because I had the possibility of honoring. I am really glad that I didn't go to a school with a 5-tier grading system. I wouldn't be opposed to moving to a p/f system if people thought that grading was really holding them back from participating in other activities.
The current system although attempt to create a more collaborative environment at Pitt Med actually make it more competitive. I believe that why you even have students who were willing to do whatever it took to Honor including cheating. I actually like the H/P/F My one issue which has been my issue since I got here is that Pitt is really really good at helping the people on the bottom out. For example you have to fail the block rather than fail a class and there is a hard cut off at 70 for passing. Pitt is less helpful for those of us at the top like me. My grades are generally fairly close to the honors mark but if I honor one or two classes in a block it does not always get recorded because I may not have honored the block. There have been other times where the honors cut off was very high. In renal is was about a 96. I think there should be a cut off at the top for honors too. Either 1 standard deviation about or pick some number like 90 or 95 and even if the whole class gets above that number the whole class honors that class. What I dislike is that my hard work in one class can be eliminated by the block system. I actually don't care that much about the actual grade. I study because I need to know the material not because of the grade on the other side. And while I support a change to p/F I'm not sure it would really change all that much.
More important than the actual letter system is the message we get about how important the basic science stuff is. I remember Dr. Ryan saying how absolutely important it was to learn the basic science really well for the future care of our patients, which leads to guilt when you don't learn everything (which is impossible). Other docs say it doesn't really matter. After a year and a half in med school, I still don't know exactly how to look at MSI&II. Is it just an introduction for appreciation sense and to speak the lingo? Should I actually try to memorize the differences between 10+ interleukens or the exact location of the less splanchnic nerve? I have no idea still, and the only perspective I get on it is here and there, and we get conflicting messages. I'm sure part of it is the USMLE's fault, but in retrospect it seems like way too many details. If the details are important, someone needs to explain exactly why.
The honors system has been a negative incentive for me to work harder-- After working to my limits of work and coming within a few points of honors, I quickly realized that the people getting honors were the ones working all the time-- literally ALL THE TIME. I am a hard worker, but being able to talk to family and see friends more than at holidays is important to me, not to mention being outside, or doing anything other than studying. My impression of Pitt before I came was that it encouraged students to strive for excellence but also to have a life outside school. It has been discouraging to realize that there is no possibility of having a life if I want to distinguish myself academically in this school-- so I haven't tried to. Also, there seems to be an unquestioned mentality here (and probably in most med schools) of living for one's resume. When does it end? I probably would learn more if all classes were pass fail, or at least if the honors distinction wasn't only awarded per block-- I have gotten honors in individual classes but having to get honors in several classes in a row is a recipe for neuroticism. I've seen it-- people I know trying to get honors should be on tranquilizers, and they are so hard on themselves about every missed test question. I feel bad for them.
I would rather have a constant level of mid-stress than a huge spike when it comes to boards. having a chance to get honors significantly increases the effort i put in learning the material. while a very good school, pitt is not one of the top few us medical schools, and it is useful to have criteria to set some students apart.
I think it's absolutely absurd that the school continues to tout how 'supportive' the environment is, how 'noncompetitive' it is, etc, etc, but in reality, they want students to fail. When you grade all students based on how they do relative to each other & recalculate new SDs and cut-offs - not based on the grade cut offs per class, but based on a new average and SD determination at the end of each block for everyone - how else is this to be perceived by students? It's kind of ridiculous that for many classes, the passing cut off is high and the grade needed to get honors is downright unreasonable (ex. only being able to miss one question on the pharm exam to get honors?!?). It's obviously a problem when the administration tells preceptors for intro to medical interviewing only to give one or two people per group an honors grade, as to keep the overall number of people who get honors for the block down. The grading policies and practices at this school suggest that the school wants to maintain a competitive environment among students. In fact, in the ludacrisy of the grading system, it's apparent that they welcome it. In non-science classes, the grading policies aren't clear, and those that are don't necessarily lend themselves to appropriately rewarding the students who actually deserve an Honors grade (like basing getting Honors in BSofC on who shows up and feigns interest in lectures that the course directors can't even be compelled to pay attention to, as evidenced by their tendency to use their blackberries/iphones throughout the duration of almost every class). Pre-clinical class grades should be P/F, and the cut-offs for grades should be set in advance.
I maintain that grading the pre-clinical courses on a relative curve system is detrimental to morale, creates a needless sense of competition, and is a flawed approach to assessment. It would be more productive to provide absolute grades; answering 70% (or whatever the course director's chosen threshold might be) of the questions correctly on a difficult exam should be a passing grade. More even than the H/P/F vs P/F dichotomy, this seems to me to be a positive and needed change. I have mixed feelings about H/P/F - I think I learn the basic science course material better, but at the end of almost every block last year, I was 1-2 points away from Honors, and it got really frustrating! I worry that lack of honors will affect my chances of not just residency, but getting research fellowships, etc.
This is a QOL issue. PittMed students are incredibly motivated to learn. By adding unnecessary pressure, I think that Honors has sucked some of the enjoyment from studying here. There is an arguement that the current Honors policy allows PittMed to reward students who work extra-hard. While I am sure that many of the students who regularly achieve an Honors grade feel rewarded, I wonder if this is a healthy way to award their hard work. At this stage, doing well on a test should be enough. Additionally, I worry that this policy has incentivized many bright students to not participate in activities that would have enriched their experience (and possibly their education) at PittMed much more than the extra hours spent in the library. The students here would work hard whether or not we award Honors, and at the end of the day we all face the same Boards exams. It does not seem likely to me that awarding Honors grades enhances our preparation for the Boards. So why not turn down the heat?
I definitely don't like the current H/P/F system because it's really hard to get honors and equally difficult to fail. Either have a P/F system and make everyone destressed or have a traditional A/B/C/D/F (H/HP/P/F) system so that those of us who are always 1-2% from the Honors cutoff get some recognition instead of being lumped with those who got 2 SDs below the mean.
I know that a certain portion of students give up on trying to get honors after the first couple courses. Others always get honors. I fit into a different category. I have not once gotten honors in the main science courses, yet I continue to strive for honors. This is becoming difficult. I'm getting tired. I'm getting discouraged. I feel stupid. I feel like I'm going to be an under-prepared physician. Is this the goal of medical school? Why, then, do I keep trying to get honors? I do this for a couple reasons. 1) I don't want to fail. The only I know how to avoid failing is to "gun" for honors. 2) I am interested in a competitive residency, and I was told to try to get a "smattering" of honors. With each passing course, my chances of getting a "smattering" are waning. This is very discouraging and stressful. 3) My goal is to master the material. To me, this is synonymous with getting honors. But, if I don't get honors, does that mean I didn't master the material? If Honors was eliminated, Junior AOA could still be awarded. The administration could easily see who received the top scores on past exams. Meanwhile, I, as a student, could be content not knowing how dumb I am compared to the top few people in the class. I could also stop getting frustrated knowing that I was some small percentage away from getting honors only to be lumped in with the student that was some small percentage away from failing. A word of warning: If Pitt goes to a P/F system, it will do no good if we are still given our score along with the mean and the std deviation. I just want to look on the zone and see either a P or an F and my percentage on the exam. I don't want to see the average. I don't want to see the std deviation. Those statistics will only show how I did in comparison to my classmates. I only want to see how I did in comparison to the number of questions on the exam. Forgive my rant, but I know that research supports the P/F only system for the first two years. I believe in evidence based medical education. If the research says its good, what are we waiting for?
Do I care about getting honors or not? - no. Do I want to do as well as I can in my courses? - yes. I think having honors is good, simply because some nerds need something to worry about.
Keep H/P/F but shorten science/organ systems blocks. One poor performance in a 4 month block essentially ruins your chance of honoring anyway, making the existence of H/P/F unimportant. If the blocks were shortened H/P/F would have more of an impact.
the honors aspect of the grading system definitely fosters a less collaborative environment, if everything was P/F people may actually take time to get to know their classmates and live a little Once I realize that I can't honor a course, I become much more comfortable focusing on the material that I think I need to know for Step 1 rather than every minute detail in the syllabus.
I feel that those who perform exceptionally well in classes should be recognized in some way. I am disappointed in my classmates if their only motivation for working hard is the incentive of "honors." Our overall goal is to be good physicians for our patients some day and studying in preclinical years is the foundation for that. I personally do not try to get honors in the basic science courses because I use a lot of supplementary materials to build a foundation in the general subject at the time. To get honors, one needs to pound away at the syllabus, which I don't think is always the best resource. Furthermore, I believe we would be doing a disservice in the form of the informal or hidden curriculum. We are all headed for busy professional lives. It is important that we learn to do our work and still stay healthy, enjoy our lives, and keep in touch with family and friends. This needs to be learned just the same as anatomy or pathology. By doing away with honors, this school is once again lowering standards and babying us as students, which is something that happens too often. We need to learn balance and accountability, something many of us from backgrounds of awards, accolades, and perfection just don't understand. Finally, since I believe this survey is in response to the BSoC issue, I think that was an issue of attitude and not system. As enraged at everyone was over the e-mail identifying those not behaving, everyone pays attention and acts appropriately now. A little accountability went a long way. I apologize for the rant.
I feel that the grading system only tells me how I are doing relative to my peers, but in no way influences how hard I try to learn the material...I am driven internally to learn as much as I can, for the sake of being a better physician and understanding what it is that I see in a patient, and not for a better grade. That is why the stress level would not be much different if it was a P/F system.
Year in medical school. If on a research year, please select the medical school year you last completed.
MS-2 MS-2
MS-2
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MS-2 MS-2 MS-2
MS-2 MS-2
MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2
MS-2 MS-2
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MS-2 MS-2 MS-2
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MS-2 MS-2 MS-2
MS-2
MS-2 MS-2
MS-2 MS-2 MS-2
MS-2
MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2
MS-2
MS-2 MS-2
MS-2
MS-2 MS-2 MS-2
MS-2 MS-2 MS-2
MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2
MS-2
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MS-2
MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2
MS-2 MS-2 MS-2
MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-2 MS-1 MS-1
MS-2
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What specialties are you interested in (if known)?
Pediatrics, Internal Medicine, Psychiatry, Neurosurgery
No idea yet
Orthopedic surgery and Neurosurgery
pediatrics, oncology, surgery Internal medicine (GI), ENT
Internal Medicine, Med-Peds
Surgery, EM
Emergency medicine, pediatrics, critical care medicine
Emergency Medicine
primary care
Neurology, Cardiology
Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Pediatrics
Surgery Dermatology
Pediatric surgery, surgical oncology pediatrics, psychiatry
Ob/Gyn
Emergency Medicine Internal medicine, Pediatrics Surgery, Anesthesiology, Neurology
Pediatrics, possibly a fellowship after residency
Psychiatry
Oncology, Internal Medicine, others Dermatology Radiology ENT
unknown OB/gyn, internal medicine
Family Medicine, Emergency Medicine, Ob/Gyn Dermatology, Emergency Internal Medicine
Hematology/Oncology, Gastroenterology, Endocrinology
not surgery... Internal Medicine
Pain management (through either neurology or anesthesiology), pulm/CC, gastroenterology
Otolaryngology
Cardiology, Infectious Disease, Internal medicine, family medicine, internal medicine, pediatrics, psychiatry Psychiatry, Neurology, Neurosurgery, Radiology, Internal Medicine Neuro orthopaedic surgery, internal medicine Anesthesia, EM Surgery Sub-field of medicine pediatrics, psychiatry, neurology surgery
Internal Med Cardiology, Radiology
surgery, oncology
Surgery Internal medicine, Neurology
psychiatry and pediatrics
Orthopaedic Surgery, Surgery
Surgery, ENT, Internal Medicine (Renal) Pediatrcis child neorology, neonatal medicine
Emergency Medicine
I would be more likely to attend lunch talks.
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3 3 1 3 3 3 3 2 1 2 3 3 3 2 1
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3 3 3 1 3 3 1
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2 3 3 2.480392157
I would be more likely to volunteer or participate in community service.
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4 3 1 3 1 3
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3 3 4 1 5 5 1
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2 3 3 2.805825243
Do you strive for honors in preclinical courses?
Sometimes Sometimes
Sometimes
Never
Always Always Sometimes
Sometimes Sometimes
Always Sometimes Rarely Sometimes Sometimes
Rarely Rarely
Rarely
Sometimes
Sometimes
Rarely Sometimes
Sometimes Never Rarely
Always
Always Always Never
Sometimes
Always Always
Always Sometimes Rarely
Always
Rarely Sometimes Sometimes Rarely
Always
Sometimes Always
Sometimes
Rarely Sometimes Sometimes Always
Always Rarely Rarely
Sometimes Never Sometimes Rarely Sometimes
Never
Always Always
Sometimes Rarely Rarely Sometimes
Always
Always
Never Never Sometimes Always Always Sometimes Always Rarely Sometimes Always Sometimes Sometimes Never Always Always
Always Rarely Sometimes
Always Rarely Sometimes Sometimes Always Sometimes
Rarely
Rarely Always
Sometimes Sometimes Always Never Always Never Sometimes
Sometimes Sometimes
Sometimes Sometimes Never
How satisfied are you with the current grading scheme in the preclinical years?
Unsatisfied Satisfied
Very satisfied
Very unsatisfied
Very satisfied Very satisfied Unsatisfied
Unsatisfied Unsatisfied
Unsatisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied Unsatisfied Unsatisfied
Very unsatisfied Very satisfied
Satisfied
Very unsatisfied
Satisfied
Satisfied Satisfied
Satisfied Unsatisfied Very satisfied
Satisfied
Satisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied
Satisfied
Unsatisfied Very satisfied
Very satisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied
Unsatisfied
Very satisfied Satisfied Satisfied Satisfied
Very unsatisfied
Very satisfied
Unsatisfied Satisfied Satisfied Satisfied
Very satisfied Unsatisfied Unsatisfied
Very unsatisfied Very satisfied Satisfied Unsatisfied Unsatisfied
Satisfied
Unsatisfied Very satisfied
Unsatisfied Satisfied Very satisfied Very unsatisfied
Unsatisfied
Very unsatisfied
Very satisfied Unsatisfied Unsatisfied Very unsatisfied Very satisfied Satisfied Very satisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied Satisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied Unsatisfied Unsatisfied Very unsatisfied
Unsatisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied
Satisfied Unsatisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied Very unsatisfied Unsatisfied
Satisfied
Very satisfied Satisfied Very satisfied Very unsatisfied Satisfied Satisfied Satisfied
Satisfied Unsatisfied Unsatisfied
In which blocks did you receive honors?
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 Prefer not to answer
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Pat Prefer not to answer
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 Prefer not to answer
Prefer not to answer Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2 Prefer not to answer
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Prefer not to answer
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introductio Scientific Reasoning 1 Scientific Reasoning 2
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Re Prefer not to answer
Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Prefer not to answer Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Introduction to Patient Care 2
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2; Prefer not to answer
Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2
Introduction to Patient Care 1 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scienti Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Pat
Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer Introduction to Patient Care 2
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introdu Introduction to Patient Care 1 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basi Prefer not to answer
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Pharmacology Patient, Physician & Society 1
Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Introduction to Patient Care 1
Introduction to Patient Care 1 Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scie
Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2 Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1
Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#Scie
Prefer not to answer Introduction to Patient Care 2 Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer Patient, Physician & Society 2
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2 Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;# Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis Prefer not to answer
Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patie Prefer not to answer
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatry;#OS2 Scientific Reasoning 1 Introduction to Patient Care 1
I am motivated to learn my non-basic science course material very well.
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I would be more likely to be involved I would be more likely in a to take a Ministudent Elective. group.
I would I would be more be more I would likely to likely to be more engage in take on a likely to recreation leadership shadow a al position. physician. activities.
I would be more likely to participat e in research.
1 1.794642857
2 3 2 3 3 4 1 1.946429 2.044643 1.901786 1.945455 2.828829 2.598214 2.125
For P/F
73/112 2/112
39/112 P/F 53/112 P/F 35/119 None 33/112 None 38/112 H/PF 26//112 H/P/F
Would My Pitt Med I am you classmate Pitt Med would be motivated support a s would would be an to learn proposal I would experienc a very academic my basic to change experienc e less collaborat ally science preclinical e less stress in ive rigorous course grading stress in their environm environm material from my life. lives. ent. ent. very well. H/P/F to
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, negatively, or not at all? Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all
Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Yes - for non-basic science courses only Not at all
Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all Yes - for basicscience courses only Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Yes - for non-basic science courses only Not at all Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all
Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all
No
Not at all
Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Positively -- I Yes - for wanted to come to non-basic a school that did not science have five-tier courses grading (A, B, C, D, only F). Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading.
Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Yes - for non-basic science courses only Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses.
Yes - for non-basic science Negatively -- I wish courses Pitt Med had fiveonly tier grading.
Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading.
Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Yes - for non-basic science courses only Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F).
No
Not at all
Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading.
Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F).
No Yes - for basicscience courses only
Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading.
Yes - for basicscience courses only
Not at all
Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, No F). Yes - for basicscience courses only Not at all Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading.
Not at all Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading.
Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all
Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading.
No
No
No
Not at all
Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading.
No
Not at all
No
Not at all
Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Positively -- I Yes - for wanted to come to basica school that did not science have five-tier courses grading (A, B, C, D, only F).
No
Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Yes - for basicscience Negatively -- I wish courses Pitt Med had only pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, No F). Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all
Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all Positively -- I Yes - for wanted to come to basica school that did not science have five-tier courses grading (A, B, C, D, only F). Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading.
No
Yes - for basicscience courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for basicscience courses only
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had fivetier grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, No F). Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F).
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, No F). Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, No F). Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading.
No Yes - for basicscience courses only
Not at all
No
Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses.
No
No
Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Positively -- I Yes - for wanted to come to non-basic a school that did not science have five-tier courses grading (A, B, C, D, only F).
Yes - for all Negatively -- I wish preclinical Pitt Med had courses pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, No F). Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all Yes - for basicscience courses only Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F). Positively -- I wanted to come to Yes - for a school that did not all have five-tier preclinical grading (A, B, C, D, courses F).
2 1 2 3 3 1.630631 1.357143 1.828829 3.223214 2.855856
44/112
80/112 Basic 74/112 NonSci 18/112 No 23/112 H/P/F
3/112 Wanted H/P/F
34/112 Not influen
Year in medical school. If on a research year, please select the medical
What specialties are you interested in (if known)?
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1 My opinion is that if you are not going to do a 5 tier grading system, then it should be a P/F school. H/P/F rewards the top 15%, but does nothing for the next 15% (who would presumably have HP in a 5-tier system). The second 15% (top 3015% of class) scored much higher on the test than the bottom 15% (who predominately passed), but in the current system both groups are scored the same, which is an inaccurate reflection of the relative knowledge displayed on the tests. So if you are still going to allow for someone to honor, then you should move to a 5-tier system. But if you do not want a 5-tier system, then it should be all P/F so that everyone is on the same plane no matter what. MS-1 I don't really have a problem with H/P/F. I have heard a lot of unhappiness about it but from what I understand, by the time applications for residency roll around, students are celebrating every honors they have on their transcripts. Without H/P/F, I would wonder if Pitt Med loses students who come here over Harvard, for example, because the have the opportunity to shine (ie get lots of Honors). MS-1
Surgery
Its not so much that I have any serious issue with H/P/F, its just that what is honors (or pass for that matter) is always a moving target. Why not just set some arbitrary percentage for each class, like say a 90% or so, to be honors and a 70% to be pass. Everyone likes to make a stink about how "preclinical grades don't really matter," and I think that 99% of why they don't matter (unless you fail everything, of course) is because they are SOOOO INCONSISTENT that residency directors and such cannot possibly draw any conclusions from them. This year's barely passing may have been last year's mean. There needs to be a more uniform standard. MS-1
Pediatric Oncology
MS-1 CT Surgery/ Vascular Surgery/ General Surgery EM, Ortho, Peds, General Surgery, Radiology
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
There is too much focus on grades and required coursework, and not enough focus on developing enthusiasm and excitement about learning the material so that we can achieve excellence for the sake of our Patients--not our class standing. We need more examples of doctors and teachers who are passionate about their vocations and the role of healing, and less focused on statistics, evaluations, and faculty-development. At the risk of being dramatic, I'd say that the soul of medicine is at stake here. And I think Yale has got it right : )
MS-1
Surgery, Internal Medicine, Emergenc y Medicine
MS-1
orthopedi cs
MS-1 Heme/On c, EM, Derm, Peds
MS-1
MS-1
Otolaryng ology
MS-1
MS-1
Having Pass/Fail in the preclinical years will result in a much lower level of stress for all the students. Everyone still has to take Step 1. I would study just as much if it were pass fail, I just wouldn't feel terrible over missing a single multiple choice question because it was written badly. The current system is probably the worst possible. Either you are scoring above 95 on most exams for honors or you are passing. Those in the passing range go from 94 to 65. Lumping all of these students into one category is clearly misleading. Set the bar for passing higher, but get rid of the honors. You'll see a much more collaborative environment. Students at the top will have much more incentive to help out those who are struggling. What is really going to make students into good residents and physicians is shadowing and spending time in the clinics. Having time to do these things without being completely stressed out over missing time to study would make this much easier. I think there should also be more focus on Step 1 preparation through out. The questions on exams should attempt as much as possible to ask questions along similar to the ones we will see on this exam. Lastly, the grading system at Pitt was the one reason I almost didn't come to Pitt and probably the biggest negative about being here. Michigan, UPenn, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and a bunch of very good other schools all do it pass/fail in the first two years. Say what you want about students not worrying too much about it, but they do. There have been cheating scandals in the past. Most people are very stressed about it. When students are pushed to the point of undermining their integrity to get an honors, it should be obvious that there is something unhealthy about the environment. Having a pass/fail system would also allow students to delve into areas of the curriculum that are especially interesting to them. Please change the system. It needs to be done, and will only make things better in so many ways. MS-1
Orthopedi c surgery, Cardiovas cular Surgery, Neurosurg ery
MS-1
MS-1 If you are going to have grades, then it needs to be a 5-tiered system, particularly in the basic science courses. There is no way someone with a 92% in anatomy deserves the same grade as someone with a 68%, but this year, both of those grades earn only a passing grade. Do not go halfway on this. Either do a pass/fail system, or have a 5-tiered system that properly reflects how much people know. Just having honors is very unfair to the large group of people just missing honors who have still worked much harder than the people barely passing. MS-1
Oncology
I feel that a P/F grading system would decrease much of the unnecessary intensity in the class without having a significantly negative impact on residency applications or personal motivation to learn the material. I would strongly support a move to a P/F system.
MS-1
primary care, EM, peds
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
MS-2
MS-1
MS-1 h/p/f has the advantage of rewarding those who work a little harder or who want to challenge themselves while not being causing competitiveness in the class. i do not think pitt needs p/f to be collaborative, i think we already are MS-1
genetics, pathology
MS-1
Emergenc y Medicine
MS-1 it's not the grading system I've a problem with rather the structure of some of the courses (i.e, multiple professors, unorganized syllabus, unnecessary details etc)
Surgery
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
OB/GYN
MS-1
MS-1 Clarity and consistency is all I look for from a course. If something is required, make it truly required and stick with it. Inconsistency and a lack of resolve when enforcing rules is what is most frustrating in a course. Our education is wrought with special exceptions, placating, and compromise that does nothing but weaken our education. The real world does not placate and I think our professional education should not either. MS-2
Orthopae dic Surgery, Surgery
Since many residencies focus on clinical grades rather than preclinical grades (because the board exams account for that), it doesn't make sense to have H/P/F. Being more involved will make us balanced and still other schools that just use Pass Fail perform just as well or better. MS-1
plastic and reconstruc tive surgery
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
pediatrics, surgery
MS-1
I feel that a change to a Pass/Fail system could be done because of the Scholarly Project. With a scholarly project, a P would still indicate an individual who was academically/scientifically prepared without having to have the designation of 'Honors'. I also feel that a Pass/Fail system would mean that the instructors of courses would certainly need to make an effort to withdraw some material that may be of personal interest to the instructor and replaced with material that would be specifically geared to help students prepare for the USMLE. (It could/should be argued that this could be done anyway.) Doing this would help students achieve higher scores and establish that a 'P' grade from Pitt is quality and results in better student prep. This would be necessary to counteract the idea (however misplaced) that an 'H' student is more prepared. Going to P/F system could also encourage research participation or a deeper involvement in the Scholarly Project. These are opportunities for publication. The greater the output of publication for the student body and faculty the higher the national rankings. This should be of great interest to the administration. MS-1
Internal Medicine, Surgery, EM
I feel there are other ways for students to distinguish themselves from others without needing the honors system. I think it does little for students who demonstrate of basic coursework - sometimes at the expense of those that have never seen the material - only to have little inkling as to how to actually apply that knowledge on the wards. In this sense, I am fine with having honors in the third and fourth years. On the other hand, for the first two years, where students of different academic backgrounds are being acclimated to the language of medicine, it is more objectionable to award this kind of distinction. Of course, there are those that have never seen the coursework before, and still manage to get honors. However, I feel this is more of a minority. Furthermore, I have already begun to see my fellow classmates stress out over the feeling that they have to "keep up" with the rest of their class, when in actuality, I think it is more important for PittMed to foster an environment that produces physicians with a self-motivated/-disciplined passion for acquiring knowledge. Finally, it is difficult to take a significant cohort of students that have acclimated to a workplace that, for the most part, is not academically competitive - thus leaving them less inclined to engage in this competitive grading exchange - and put them in a system that does just that. For someone that is not interested in being in a competitive school, I find that this environment is counterproductive to my ability to learn without feeling burdened by the thought of who is possibly doing better than me. While I personally don't care, I am very aware of those from my background - i.e. non-traditional students - that feel this sense of constant urgency. In this state, it leaves you little opportunity to engage in the MS-1
Pediatrics Orthopae dic Surgery, Family Medicine, Sports Medicine
MS-1
MS-1
Surgery, Emergenc y Medicine, Internal Medicine
MS-1
Urology, ENT, Surgery
When considering a 5, 3, or 2-tiered grading system, the current 3-tiered system MS-1 is by far the least sensible. Every student who performs at a level "sufficient" to graduate from medical school should either be awarded the same passing grade, or they should be assigned a grade that more precisely represents their knowledge and abilities by adopting a 5-tiered system. I suspect that a chief objective of adopting a 3-tiered system over a 5-tiered one is to reduce competition. If that is the case, the current system fails miserably. I am not contending that the class is especially competitive, because we are not. However, the current system retains a considerable degree of whatever competition would have existed under a 5-tiered system. For many, competition originates not merely from an attempt to achieve a "B" over a "C", or an "A" over a "B" compared to another student, but instead derives from the desire to obtain the highest possible grade. For in a system where a certain level of performance is deemed "Honorable," it will be the inherent tendency of many bright students to be dissatisfied with the mark of "Pass." Thus, for those individuals, a 3-tiered system does nothing to reduce competition. At the same time, a Pass/Fail system would not be without detractors. The very students who, in the current system, look upon a passing grade with disappointment, may very well be upset if superior performance is not recognized. This is alleviated in part by adopting a 5-tiered grading system. The student who scores just below the highest grade will likely accept a "B" instead of an "A" with less disappointment, compared to the student receiving a mere "Pass" grade instead of "Honors." At the very least, the B is a more accurate indication of the student's true competency. Indeed, it is difficult to consider the advantages and disadvantages of a Pass/Fail system versus one with 5 grade levels. However, it seems that either option is MS-1 I feel that the Honors system combined with the fact that our grades are based on the class mean (i.e., we all compare ourselves with each other) encourages a competitive environment. Collaboration is the wave of the future (and should have been the wave of the past). Get with it!
Pathology
MS-1
Most of them.
I think the H/P/F system provides just enough motivation to really study the material even if you think you know it well enough to pass without the added stress of worrying too much about failing or getting a low grade as one might with a 5 tier system. I am not so competitive as to battle and stress myself out to get honors but I do think it is something that students strive (or attempt to strive) for, which is a motivator when things look dull. If the grading system was just pass/fail, the students who do really well would have nothing extra to show for their efforts and it would look the same getting 100 or a 60. Also, this might make people learn enough just to pass rather than try learn all the material. This would essentially be a disservice to our future patients, lead to poorer board scores, and possibly incompetant physicians.
MS-1
Internal medicine, pediatrics, surgery.
MS-1
pathology
MS-1 I feel as though the H/P/F system adds much undo stress to a system that I think works well. I came to Pitt because of the P/F system, but the fact that failure or honors depends on the performance of the rest of the class, many of whom are striving for honors, creates a stressful environment where students seem to feel that they must do what ever it takes to be better than the other guy. I think that a P/F system would allow a healthy environment, where students will learn the information because it is important to them and to their future career, not to prove something. I also appreciate that the administration is looking into something like this and asking student's opinions. Thank you. MS-1
Surgery
I'd support P/F in non-science courses (Ethics and MDM)
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
Family medicine, surgery, ob/gyn, pediatrics
MS-1
MS-1 If we do away with Honors I think we should just do away with grades and make a deal with a test prep company to start us on a USMLE Step 1 program from day 1. Personally, I like having honors. I really don't think our class is overly competitive but it gives me and others the impetus to study really hard and learn the basic science material well. I think if you survey the class as a whole and ask them if honors is worth keeping or not you are bound to get the answer, "do away with honors" because statitically most people do not get honors. MS-1 I think we should just have an ABCD-F system. Students who would normally fall in the high B low A range have little insentive to work hard because slacking off will still get them a big P on their transcript. For example, I didn't bother studying for the final exam in anatomy becuase I knew I would have to get 100 to possibly honor and just over 50% to fail. I figured without studying I could manage somewhere in between, and I did. The P doesn't show a difference between a 70 or a 90, but I see a big difference in understanding and effort in those numbers. I would add, if ABCD-F is too juvenile, a low pass or a high pass to make it worth while to actually try even if you don't fall in the top 15% of the class. MS-1
Neurosurg ery, Interventi onal Neurology , Clinical Neurophy siology
OBGYN and neonatalo gy
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
ortho, EM, ID, IM
MS-1
Pediatrics
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
peds, family medicine
I would be interested to know what the larger implications of P/F are...ie. what other schools use pass/fail, how does it affect their students getting into residency programs, etc.
MS-1
MS-1
pediatrics, neonatolo gy
Due to the nature of medical school, where most professors are unaware exactly how much we know on a given topic (since any individual professor teaches only a few courses in the block and is often unaware of what we learned in another block) we are often asked questions on exams that are beyond what was covered in class or the syllabus. Also at times, we are asked questions where choosing the right answer is based not on knowledge but on the interpretation of the question. During both of these scenarios, I would like to be able to focus on simply learning the material and not waste time trying to earn back points on issues that are largely irrelevant to being a good physician. However, the current Honors/Pass/Fail system puts unnecessary pressure on earning points (and not on acquiring knowledge). From what I have seen from my class, most of us are self motivated and thus as likely to study and work hard whether or not the honors grading criteria remains. MS-1
MS-1
Surgery
Honestly, I feel that first and second year course grades are largely ignored by residency programs, and it make no difference between H/P/F and P/F. I think that Pitt is not an overly competitive school, but students would be more likely to participate in activities outside of the classroom if the grading system was P/F. MS-1 In the scheme of things, I think it will have very little consequence. The school should work to make the syllabi and classroom time more cohesive. Honestly, the disjointed syllabi and poor lecture and pbl quality detract from learning much more than grading. MS-1
Primary care/inter nal medicine
MS-1
MS-1
radiology, radiation oncology
MS-1
ophthalm ology
MS-1
I understand the importance of being able to distinguish those who consistently perform above and beyond in academics, but I also see how ridiculous the stress levels get and how competitive our non-competitive environment can get. I don't have a simple answer because I think that if my classmates do superior work, they should get credit for it. However, in the absence of the Honors distinction, I think that students might try doing other things that will help them stand out, things that might help the student body, medical school and community as a whole because we really would have to, as students, do more community service or research or shadowing to truly stand out from our fellow classmates. However, either way the grading system goes, I am happy that I chose to come to PittMed and that this dialog is even happening. MS-1
MedPeds, Oncology
MS-1
I would actually prefer 5 tier system, but if not possible p/f would be better.
MS-1
Pediatrics, Sports Medicine For some preclinical courses, the honors system favors students who come into med school with previous background in a particular subject area. I strongly doubt that the level of effort or academic rigor would decrease if the system were to change from H/P/F to P/F.
ENT, Internal Medicine, PMNR
MS-1 I haven't received grades for any blocks, yet. I was on the line for honors in Anatomy, but I don't think that I got it. We'll see. Honors/Pass/Fail is a satisfactory system for me. I think that it incentivizes good study skills during pre-clinical courses. While I believe that changing H/P/F to P/F in the pre-clinical courses would have some sort of affect on my overall experience, I don't think it would be a profound effect that would instantly lower my stress level. MS-1 Otolaryng ology, Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, Pathology
I don't really see why honors matters that much. I'm just trying to pass which is tough enough.
MS-1
internal medicine family medicine
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
Pedatrics, surgery
MS-1 It is not clear how the grading scheme would work on a P/F system (i.e. would the standard deviation scale change and how). It seems that a h/p/f system pushes for academic achievement at the cost of stress and less free time for extracurricular activity. I'm sure those that get honors like the it there as a goal to achieve and a form of recognition. a/b/c/d/f would be a HORRIBLE idea...don't do it! MS-1
Pediatrics
ENT, Anaesthes iology emergenc y medicine
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
emergenc y medicine
MS-1
Surgery, Radiology, Pathology
MS-1
pediatrics, neonatolo gy, oncology
We have not actually been informed of our final grades for any class yet. MS-1 Too much stress with such a competative class. I feel like I'm starting to burn out and as a result my studying habits are suffering. I'm a very competative person and as long as there's the 'honors' grade, I will be less likely to help others and I also cannot dedicate my time to other important things in medschool like research and shadowing. MS-1
Radiology, Surgery
surgery
I don't try to honor but there's something about having it as an option that makes the program seem more legitimate.
MS-1
Primary Care
Emergenc y Medicine
MS-1
Internal Medicine, Pediatrics
MS-1
MS-1
Orthopedi c Surgery
MS-1
I would be more likely to attend lunch talks.
I would be more likely to volunteer or participat e in communit y service.
How I would satisfied be more are you likely to with the attend Do you current optional strive for grading classes honors in scheme in (lectures, preclinical the labs). courses? preclinical
I am motivated to learn my nonIn which basic blocks did science you course receive material honors? very well.
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Basic Science Fundamen tals 1;#Neuros cience/Ps ychiatry;# OS2:Body Fluid Homeosta sis;#Patie nt, Physician & Society 1;#Scientif ic Reasoning 1;#Pharm acology 4
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3 Basic Science Fundamen tals 1 2
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3 3 3 2.392857 1.972973 2.616071
3 3 2.696429 2.598214
51/112 Unsat 60/112 Sat
I would be more likely to take a Mini-Elective. 1
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1=p/f 5=h/p/f
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My classmates would experience less stress in their lives. 5
Pitt Med would be an Pitt Med would be a very academically rigorous collaborative environment. environment. 1 5
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Would you support a proposal to change preclinical grading from H/P/F to P/F? Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, How important are negatively, or not at all? preclinical grades to you? Not at all Not important at all
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not important at all
No
No
Somewhat important
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, How important are negatively, or not at all? preclinical grades to you?
No
Very important
No
Somewhat important
No
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for non-basic science not have five-tier grading courses only (A, B, C, D, F). Yes - for all preclinical courses Not at all
Not at all
No
Somewhat important
Not at all
Somewhat important
No
Not at all
Very important
Somewhat important
Not at all
Not at all
Somewhat important
No
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Somewhat important
Yes - for non-basic science courses only Not at all
Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Not at all Not at all Somewhat important Not important at all
No
No
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had five-tier grading.
Somewhat important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not important at all Not at all Not at all Somewhat important Somewhat important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for non-basic science not have five-tier grading courses only (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
No
Somewhat important
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, How important are negatively, or not at all? preclinical grades to you? Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Somewhat important
Yes - for non-basic science courses only Not at all No Not at all
Very important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not important at all
Not at all
Somewhat important
Not at all
Very important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Somewhat important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not important at all
Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Yes - for basic-science courses only No
No
Not at all
Very important
Not at all
Somewhat important
No
Not at all
Very important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Not important at all
No
Not at all
Somewhat important
No
Not at all
Very important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Somewhat important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Very important Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Somewhat important Not at all Very important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
No
Somewhat important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave Yes - for non-basic science honors in preclinical courses only courses. Somewhat important
No
Not at all
Somewhat important
Very important
Very important
Very important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for non-basic science not have five-tier grading courses only (A, B, C, D, F). Yes - for all preclinical courses
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Not at all
Very important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not important at all
Would you support a proposal to change preclinical grading from H/P/F to P/F? Yes - for all preclinical courses
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, How important are negatively, or not at all? preclinical grades to you? Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important
Somewhat important
No
Not at all
Not at all
Somewhat important
No
Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not important at all
Not at all
Somewhat important
Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for non-basic science not have five-tier grading courses only (A, B, C, D, F).
Very important
Very important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for non-basic science not have five-tier grading courses only (A, B, C, D, F). Not important at all
Not at all
Somewhat important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
Not at all
Very important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
No
Not at all
Somewhat important
No
Very important
Very important Somewhat important
No
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave Yes - for non-basic science honors in preclinical courses only courses. Very important
Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Not at all
Very important
Not at all
Somewhat important
No
Somewhat important
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, negatively, or not at all? Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Very important
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading No (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for non-basic science not have five-tier grading courses only (A, B, C, D, F).
Very important
Somewhat important
Yes - for non-basic science courses only Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for all preclinical not have five-tier grading courses (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for all preclinical not have five-tier grading courses (A, B, C, D, F).
Very important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Yes - for non-basic science courses only Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for all preclinical not have five-tier grading courses (A, B, C, D, F). Yes - for basic-science courses only Not at all Yes - for all preclinical courses
Very important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not important at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Very important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not important at all
Not at all
Somewhat important
No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for basic-science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not important at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Very important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Not at all
Somewhat important
No
Very important
Somewhat important
No
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
Yes - for non-basic science courses only Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for all preclinical not have five-tier grading courses (A, B, C, D, F). Yes - for all preclinical courses
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not important at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Very important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Very important Not at all Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for basic-science courses only
Not at all Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Would you support a proposal to change preclinical grading from H/P/F to P/F? Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for non-basic science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, How important are negatively, or not at all? preclinical grades to you? Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Not at all Not at all Somewhat important Somewhat important
Not at all Not at all Not at all Not at all
Not important at all Somewhat important Somewhat important Not important at all
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Very important Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for non-basic science not have five-tier grading courses only (A, B, C, D, F). Somewhat important Yes - for all preclinical courses Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave Yes - for non-basic science honors in preclinical courses only courses. Very important
Yes - for non-basic science Negatively -- I wish Pitt courses only Med had five-tier grading.
Somewhat important
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for non-basic science courses only Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for all preclinical not have five-tier grading courses (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
Not at all
Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Very important Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Somewhat important
No
Yes - for basic-science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all
Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not important at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Not important at all
Not at all
Somewhat important
No
Would you support a proposal to change preclinical grading from H/P/F to P/F? Yes - for basic-science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for all preclinical courses
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, How important are negatively, or not at all? preclinical grades to you? Not at all Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Not at all Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Very important
Yes - for basic-science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for basic-science courses only Yes - for all preclinical courses
Very important
Somewhat important
Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Not at all Somewhat important
Not at all
Very important
No
Somewhat important
Very important Not important at all
Very important
No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for basic-science courses only
Not at all
Somewhat important
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, How important are negatively, or not at all? preclinical grades to you? Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Somewhat important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important
No
Not at all
Somewhat important
Not at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all
Somewhat important
Yes - for all preclinical courses No
Very important Somewhat important
Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for basic-science courses only
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, How important are negatively, or not at all? preclinical grades to you? Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Very important Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Somewhat important Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Somewhat important
Somewhat important
No
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, How important are negatively, or not at all? preclinical grades to you? Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Very important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
No
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for all preclinical not have five-tier grading courses (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for non-basic science not have five-tier grading courses only (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
No
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
Somewhat important
No
Somewhat important
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, How important are negatively, or not at all? preclinical grades to you? Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading. Very important Not at all Somewhat important
No Yes - for basic-science courses only No
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses. Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses.
Very important Somewhat important Not important at all
No
Very important
Somewhat important
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, negatively, or not at all? Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for non-basic science not have five-tier grading courses only (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did Yes - for non-basic science not have five-tier grading courses only (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
Very important
No Yes - for all preclinical courses Yes - for basic-science courses only
Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Not at all Not at all Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Not important at all Somewhat important Somewhat important
Very important
Yes - for all preclinical courses No = 62 (20.4%)
Did the grading system at Pitt influence your decision to come here positively, negatively, or not at all? Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F). Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that did not have five-tier grading (A, B, C, D, F).
Somewhat important
Somewhat important Very= 49 (16.0%) Somewhat= 195 (63.7%) Not important at all= 62 (20.3%) 306
No = 106 (34.4%) Negatively (wanted p/f)= Yes, all = 184 (60.5%) 74 (24.0%) Negatively (wanted 5Yes, sci = 26 (8.5%) tier)=6 (1.9%) Positively (did not want 5Yes, non-sci = 32 (10.5%) tier)= 111 (36.0%) Positively (wanted 304 honors)=11 (3.6%) 308
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. MS-3
MS-4
MS-4
Internal Medicine
MS-3
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed.
MS-4
General Surgery
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I think the H/P/F system strikes an ideal balance between alleviating the intensity of stress of a 5tier grading system while leaving a level of recognition available to the highest achievers (and I was rarely one of them). In a P/F system, I strongly believe that there would be less incentive for students to commit to the intense level of learning throughout the course of the first 2 years. This can only have a detrimental effect on their preparation for and achievement on Step1, which is already a daunting task but also essential for securing the residency position of choice. Moreover, certain PittMed scholarships (of which I have benefitted and enormously appreciate in reducing my overall debt MS-4
Internal Medicine
When meeting with the program directors in my specialty they have nearly unanimously mentioned that they pay virtually no attention to pre-clinical years. If this is the case, why have an honors grade? MS-4
Emergency Medicine
Personally, my goal in each class was to attain a level of mastery that I was comfortable with. I never looked at my grades until 3rd year, and I was actually surprised by how well I did in several classes and blocks. Overall, this was a low stress attitude which worked well for me. The grading system had no influence on me. MS-4
family medicine/psychiatry combined
MS-3
MS-3 MS-3
Radiology not sure
Undue stress. Lends to competitive environment. Further promotes idea that we should be defined by numbers and not by our personal strengths. Not all great doctors are great test takers and should not be punished for it. MS-4
Peds
MS-4
Orthopaedics
MS-4
Family Medicine
MS-4
Internal Medicine
Catering to the whims of lower half of the class will decrease academic rigor and WILL NOT increase participation in research or extra curricular activities. If student wanted to participate then they did and if they worked hard a received honors in the process great. Don't lessen their achievement by making classes P/F. MS-3
???
It is a trade-off. I do think the current grading system does give some motivation to excel academically during preclinical years; however, the tradeoff is that students are more stressed out, and are probably a little less likely to participate in extracurricular activities. Also, I think it tends to be the same 20% of people who continually get honors in preclinical courses, so the rest of us just sort of "give up" and stop trying for honors. If the system were entirely p/f, perhaps more people would be focused on learning the material as opposed to just achieving honors. MS-4
Internal medicine
In terms of the basic science classes, my biggest concern is not with the grading system but with the quality of lectures/syllabus. My biggest disappointment with the PittMed basic science education is that the majority of lecturers aren't effective and their syllabus are not organized and written in a way that facilitates learning. If we could improve the quality of PittMed's education, I would have learned more and would have been happier -- with or without H/HP/P. MS-4
Ophthalmology
MS-4
Emergency Medicine
Leave the grading system alone. If you decide to work very hard, you can get honors. If you decide to learn and not worry about knowing everything, you can get pass. The best of both worlds. You can change your intensity based on your schedule and time demands. MS-4
orthopaedics
The only place that P/F should be applied is to nonscience preclinical year courses. There is no reason to have honors in IPC or PPS. For that matter, there is no reason to have 4 grades on a transcript for those courses. MS-4
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. I think pre-clinical grading year you last completed. at Pitt engenders a poisonous environment from the very beginning of medical school that sets the tone for the remainder of the time. It fosters an environment in which people become convinced very early on that if someone else wins, they necessarily lose. It undermines collaboration, excitement about ideas, and esprit de corps. Our institutional fixation on the H/P/F system is bizarre to me. Several of our peer institutions (Rochester, Sinai, and I believe UVA) use pass/fail in the preclinical years and seem to do just fine in terms of the match. I also can't imagine that it would change Step I scores all that much, although I don't know what MS-4 MS-4 MS-4
Emergency Medicine Ob/gyn Dermatology
MS-4
MS-4
internal medicine
MS-3
Psychiatry
I am unsure if class rank is kept in addition to the H/P/F, but I think it may be. If there is a class rank mentioned in the Dean's letter then H/P/F vs P/F doesn't matter so much. I think that Pitt Med can get caught up in the non-basic science courses too much and spend too much of the administration/instructor's time and too much of the students' time on the non basic science courses. Therefore I support making them P/F to de-emphasize them. MS-3
unknown
MS-4
Emergency Medicine
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. this switch to p/f really is a year you last completed. joke. people do not learn as well without the incentive of grades. i think to make it less stressful i would add high pass or something to that effect. the other psosibility is to make above a 90 honors because the difference between a 94 and a 96, which often is the difference between h/p, can be rather arbitrary. a lot of students are very close to honoring and this is a big difference than just passing but it does not show up as one. not having grades also makes studying for the boards a much more stressful experience. one bad day on the day of step I and you are toast. Personal crises and/or flu could really mess up that one day and you will not have your MS-3
MS-4 MS-4 MS-4
Internal medicine IM
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I think it is important to distinguish the top students. If this can be done in an P/F fashion, I think that's fine. Residencies do care about a students' "ranking" relative to their class, although Pittmed says they do not rank, the grades to result in some kind of tiering. MS-4 MS-3
not sure
MS-4
Diagnostic Radiology
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. Many of the students worry a lot about their grades. I remember a classmate telling me that Pitt actually does keep a class rank based on preclinical grades and was encouraging me to work harder to so I would because it goes out with letters to residencies. This student also encouraged me not to tell anyone so we had an advantage against all the other medical students. I ignored them since I really did not believe them, but this student is a typical student at Pitt Med. They are very competative and will strive to get ahead by any means, even if you tell them there is no secret list several times. I do not think the grading system affects the student mindset as much as everyone thinks it does MS-2
Pediatrics
MS-4
Otolaryngology
MS-3 I think that in the basic science/organ block courses it is appropriate to keep some type of grading scale. Maybe a 5 leveled (H/HP/P/LP/F) like what is used in the clinical years would be nice because achieving honors in the first two years is difficult especially in the block system used (it would be nice if say you did very well in genetics but then not so well in biochem that your grades could potentially reflect that with a HP in the block). As for all the nonbasic science courses, I think P/F system would be fine. All those courses aside from maybe biostats seemed ambiguous in terms of grading from what I remember so it might be less stressful to not have a scaled grading system. MS-4 MS-4
FM or PM&R
Radiology Internal Medicine
MS-4
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I personally believe that changing the preclinical year grading system to P/F would not decrease the rigor of the courses nor would it decrease the seriousness with which students learn the material. I believe Pitt Med students are academically rigorous in themselves as a quality selected for by our excellent admissions committee. I also do not believe that a P/F system in the preclinical years would substantially harm the residency prospects of our medical students. I do believe, 100%, however, that we should keep the current grading system in the clinical years. Many residencies have noted specifically they appreciate grades of Honors in specific specialties. Maintaining a rigorous grading system in MS-4
Psychiatry
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I was distraught by the level of competition between students throughout the four years of medical school at Pitt. I must have been naive, because until I started medical school I had never experienced an antagonistic "academic" environment. (I place academic in quotes because I believe that the essence of the word is contrary to the anticollegial atmosphere at Pitt) We are openly told to help each other learn as much as we can, but the system implicitly tells some people that they will be better rewarded if they put others down. I know for sure that if I had not been so negatively affected by the competitiveness encouraged at Pitt in the first two years, I would MS-4
MS-4
internal medicine
MS-4
Internal Medicine
I feel we either need a pass fail system or a 5 tier system. It is horrible for you to try hard and miss honors by a few points and only get pass. Its either you reward people for hard work or you let people learn on their own accord with a pass fail system. The honors pass fail system is I think the worst kind of grading scale. MS-4
Radiology
MS-3
MS-2
Medical Oncology
While I do agree the H/P/F system probably presses students into unhealthy levels of stress, I believe that P/F system would go too far in the opposite direction where some students would not push themselves as hard to learn the material. MS-2
Surgery
MS-2
Psychiatry
I think that a pass/fail system would greatly reduce the stress and sincerely believe that students would continue to study effectively. I felt with the grading system I focused on the syllabus material to get a better grade when often I would have learned more if I focused on understanding the material with whatever resources would have been most helpful. In regards to the first several questions on this survey I think adding a grade component to shadowing or leadership activities or community projects would be a terrible idea. Our entire life should not be dictated by requirements and by the medical school. MS-3
Pediatrics
MS-3 H/P/F is the number #1 thing that is wrong with our school.
Surgery
MS-3
MS-2
Internal Medicine
MS-3
Medicine
MS-3
Surgery
MS-3
peds
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. I think that by the time we year you last completed. start medical school, students are mature enough to direct their own learning. We are here to become doctors and want to learn, even without a carrot (Honors) dangled in front of us. Besides, there's always Step 1 waiting at the end of second year to act as the stick. H/P/F encourages students to learn for multiple choice tests instead of learning for clinical situations. So students cram, memorize details, and rely on cues in the question stems instead of understanding the big picture. As a result, they forget those details by the end of the next block instead of carrying understanding into their clinical years. It also sets up a competitive environment that discourages MS-3
Pediatrics
MS-3 MS-3
Emergency medicine
I feel that H/P/F is a fair system, as it rewards those who really want to work hard and be recognized for their performance, while not penalizing those just trying to get by. I know that I certainly worked harder in the non-basic science courses so that I could get that recognition. I also never felt like PittMed was a competitive place, and always felt that my colleagues were very helpful. However, I don't think it matters much, in the end, as preclinical grades do not seem to be that important. MS-3
Pathology
Honors encourages student to memorize the random focuses of the lectures instead of getting a solid core knowledge and following the material that interests them most. This problem is compounded by at times poorly written tests that focus on syllabus list memorization. P/F would encourage students to learn what they think they need to know to be a good doctor. MS-3
peds
I probably worked harder because of the H/P/F system but at the expense of more stress. I think it's a good thing to the extent that it encourages people to learn the material better, but is completely useless for non-basic science courses. MS-3
Unsure
MS-3
Undecided
MS-3
psychiatry
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. It seems most of us are scared enough of becoming bad doctors that, even without the chance to honor, we'd study enough to learn what we need to in the first two years. Meanwhile, the people who care about honoring more than they care about learning might be forced to step back and think about what really makes a good doctor and why they're even in medicine in the first place. Does anyone who's been there and done that, i.e., faculty, really think that honoring basic science courses is a decent predictor of eventually having a satisfying, successful career in medicine? Maybe only if your goal is to one day be a radiologist or plastic surgeon, and students who aspire to those specialties MS-3 The grades don't make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. They don't tell you anything about how good of a clinician a student is going to be. MS-3
Med/peds, psych?
Urology
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. The idea that a H/P/F system is any better than a 5-tier grading system is a joke. There is possibly even more competition, since if you don't get into the top 15% of the class to get honors, all your hard work means nothing. Furthermore, the added stress of pushing to achieve the honors butchers the intellectual curiosity and interest in studying for the pursuit of knowledge that I had in classes that were solely P/F. If we didn't want to learn we wouldn't be here. I have so much I want to look up and learn about, but it's not possible because I was always so busy trying to learn the random mundane facts I knew they would test on. Years later, I don't remember the little uninteresting facts they MS-3 MS-3
surgery Emergency Medicine
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. Having gone through both year you last completed. clinical and preclinical years, I feel that the time to distinguish myself is on the clinical years. Preclinical years are fraught with differences in students' backgrounds, time away from school, exposure to science courses, colleges, etc. and should necessarily allow for a leveling of the playing field (namely a P/F system). I feel that by the time third year rolls around people are on a more level playing field (narrower bell curve) and that this would be the time to allow for people to distinguish themselves. I do understand the argument for allowing us to set ourselves apart. But if Dr. Levine is correct in saying "we're one of the best schools these days," then I think it's about time MS-3
Internal Medicine / Family Medicine
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. I would guess that a large year you last completed. portion of the class is unaffected by the h/p/f system; as, statistically, less than a fifth of the class will ever get honors, and maybe another fifth thought they were close enough to get honors. That leaves at least half of the class who will not be impacted by the lure of honors. I often found myself in this latter half of the class, so I think my learning was mostly unaffected by the grading system. The question would be, does that statistical two-fifths of the class find the added motivation of honors classes necessary for their education? Another question I would pose - do we want to produce doctors who need some sort of outside grading MS-3
Emergency Medicine
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. In my assessment, there are two possible reasons for arguing for a shift to a P/F system. The first is to encourage a different educational environment and the second is to shift the relative importance of years 1-2 vs 3-4. I feel that a shift to P/F would place greater importance on year 3, which I believe to be the most critical assessment of your potential as a resident. Your performance in this environment depends on your interpersonal skills as much as your textbook knowledge and I feel this is the most important parameter to assess your potential success in residency. My experience as a MS-III has shown me its not about how many MS-3
Orthopaedics
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I think current first and second years are making this a bigger deal than it really is. Getting a passing grade at Pitt still means you are an above average student. I've heard residency directors state (and I quote) "Schools that don't offer honors grades are doing a great disservice to their students. When we get initial applications for residency positions, the only information we receive on each student is how many classes they honored, their step 1 score, and whether or not they did research. Letters of recommendation don't usually tell us that much initially because EVERY student has good letters of recommendation. So we nearly always make our MS-3 Changing to P/F would increase collaboration and enjoyment of learning, decrease stress, and should not negatively impact residency application. Students will still be plenty motivated to do the material. MS-2
Medicine/Cardiology or Medicine/Critical Care
Child psychiatry
MS-3
Orthopaedic Surgery
It's reasonable to award an honors grade to people scoring 1 sd above the mean (someone with a 95% should not get the same grade as someone with a 65% or a near failing score) MS-3
undecided
MS-4
Pathology
MS-3
Undecided
MS-3 MS-3 Undecided
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I considered applying internally for the MSTP program so I gave up the notion to honor my first 2 years so as to be able to work in the lab 20+ hours / week. I feel that if the grading system were designed P/F we would not feel penalized for having a more enriched first two years of medical school. People would also be able to take the time to study for their Step 1 during that time, thus learning more concepts and standardized basics, instead of stressing over the minutia that one lecturer considers important enough to be placed on a multiple choice exam that rarely assesses anything beyond rote memorization. Granted, there is the possibility that some people would "slack off" MS-3
Medicine
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. For years, first and second year you last completed. years have been complaining about the preclinical H/P/F system. A change to P/F would penalize students who truly excel in a particular course, and who deserve to have the opportunity to have this show up on their transcript. For the most part, this change to the grading system will not affect a majority of the students. Anyways, the grades one receives during first and second year (provided that one doesn't fail a course) are irrelevant in the long run. I strongly believe that simply changing to a P/F system will NOT provide major changes to the extracurricular activities, shadowing, and leadership positions that students are currently participating in, MS-2
Internal medicine
MS-2
neurosurgery
MS-2
surgery
MS-3
Anesthesia
MS-3
Radiology
MS-3
MS-3 An H/P/F grading system provides distinction for those who are able to achieve at the highest level, and this should be maintained. Third-year grades and Step 1 scores are by far the most important academic qualifications for residency match; one can conclude from this that a series of "P's" in pre-clinical coursework, coupled with an excellent Step 1 score, should not hurt when applying to residency. Rather, we should allow those who are able to succeed to the level of the "H" to reap the additional benefit that may have on their applications. In short, "P's" do not hurt, "H's" can only look good, so why get rid of the "H"? MS-3 MS-3
General Surgery
I understand somewhat why people are pushing to remove the honors category, however, we are going to be faced with being evaluated all of our lives and it is each person's own choice to turn that into stress, use it as motivation, or ignore it completely. I do not think that removing honors is a good idea. I think it is a good idea that medical students chill out, but I don't think that removing honors is going to do anything about it. MS-3 MS-2
Pathology pediatrics
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I guess I would speak by way of this example ... a few of my classmates whom I most respect are currently doing a Schweitzer fellowship. These are people I hang out with, am close with, and one of whom I live with ... so this isn't through the grapevine information. Anyway, they put in a ton of good work in the community, doing the kind of longitudinal tasks that make life better for the forgotten members of our city (I know this because I now co-run 2 organizations, both of which have their roots in previous years Schweitzers), and before every test I watch them these, to me, are the shining stars of my class, mind you - I watch them sweat and claw to just MS-2 MS-2
Pediatrics, Internal Medicine, Psychiatry, Neurosurgery
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. I feel that the H/P/F system year you last completed. for science classes is absolutely necessary. There has to be a way to distinguish students who excel from those who are squeaking by. In my opinion, Pitt med (at least the class of 2012) is already an EXTREMELY collaborative environment. I do not feel that there is anyone who strives for honors at the expense of his or her classmates' learning. I really believe the only people who complain about the H/P/F system are those who never earn honors. At the same time, I think the non-science courses REALLY need to be changed to P/F only. You really cannot equate an honors grade in a basic science block with an "honors" MS-2
Compared to my friends at P/F schools, they have way more class cohesiveness whereas we are lucky if we get more people than the usual 30 (aka 4/5 of the class is absent) at an event. MS-2
No idea yet
Honors helps distinguish your hard preclinical school work in specialties that value this (some programs feel preclinical grades show long-term work ethic). MS-2
Orthopedic surgery and Neurosurgery
MS-2
MS-2
Students who are motivated to learn the material well will do so regardless of the grading system because they know they will need the information to become a competent physician. The "honors" grade stresses some students out who it often times seems like they only want to get honors in order to have the grade on their transcript rather than because it will make them a better physician. And if it is true that pre-clinical grades really don't matter, then there seems to be little point to having an honors grade option on exams. MS-2
MS-2
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. There is not enough explanation/transparency in exactly how grades are determined. More specifically, I don't know how small group grades are factored in. I don't know what the average small group score is nor the standard deviation of these scores, and how exactly everything is calculated in order to obtain the final grade for the block (h/p/f). The policies should be made so clear that every student should be able to calculate his or her grade (H/P/f) if given all their scores, the average scores, and the standard deviations of both the exam and the small group (and all this information SHOULD be given). Also, the pharm and renal exams were made too easy MS-2
MS-2
MS-2
pediatrics, oncology, surgery
MS-2
Internal medicine (GI), ENT
1. If the UMPC ENT Program Director tells us that preclinical grades don't matter, I believe it. 2. Starting medical school is such a difficult transition, and we need our classmates to support each other. Setting up a competition from the outset isn't the way to foster a community. 3. Finally, it seems to me that have a H/P/F system while talking about "teamwork" and how medicine is a team discipline is just hypocritical. I think we'd learn a lot more from each other if we weren't worried that adding to someone's knowledge base might hurt our own grades. 4. Full disclosure: After
MS-2
MS-2
Internal Medicine, MedPeds
MS-2
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I do not feel a change to the grading system is needed. If students wish to work hard for whatever reason (internal drive, desire to match into a competitive residency, etc.) they should be allowed to have their hard work reflected on their transcript by the possibility of achieving Honors. Student attendance of lectures or engagement in extracurricular activities is a function of the student's personal desire, the quality of those things offered, and most often time. For example, notoriously bad lecturers or disorganized courses have poor attendance while good lectures usually have better attendance. This is not a function of the grading system. I have talked with countless students who MS-2
Surgery, EM
I feel that the greatest strengths of a p/f system would be in the potential to enhance collaboration among students, to foster more involvement in the community, and to prioritize the development of students as empathetic care providers. We will have to learn and indeed want to learn all the basic science material that we can for the care of patients, not for a grade. MS-2
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. It's nice for a small percentage of classmates to be seen as excelling, but I believe the types of students who come to Pitt are here because they can hold themselves accountable to academic material without the proverbial carrot on a stick. I believe for most students, Honors comes as unneeded stress, and to a few, reason to avoid collaboration. H's sure look pretty on my transcript, but I'd give them up for the peace of mind of my classmates. On another note: I think it would be beneficial to receive some form of correspondence back from a course director after the completion of each course to overview the grades, common confusion on the exam, and a general MS-2
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. The system's certainly not year you last completed. broken as it stands, but I tend to think the P/F system preferable for a group of individuals who are already highly motivated to learn. It eliminates an artificial source of stress for some of the students. Maybe a few of the "gunners" (if you'll pardon the use of such a stereotypical term) will feel able to experience medical school and the medical profession a little more fully rather than feeling guilty if they don't spend all of their time poring over basic science / organ system texts. However, there are a lot of "maybes" involved and it's possible that switching to P/F wouldn't actually help. Summary: it's fine as it stands but P/F seems preferable to H/P/F. MS-2
Emergency medicine, pediatrics, critical care medicine
MS-2
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I do not feel that the grading system places undue stress on students. Getting honors is a motivator, but 85% of the students will not honor a given block. So, I don't feel that I will "look bad" if I don't honor a course. A five-tiered grading system would be much more stressful. I think rather than changing the grading system, instead one could stress that getting honors isn't that important. A couple main points: 1) Only 15% of students get honors, but if one looks at Pitt's match list almost everyone goes to a strong residency program 2) Preclinical grades are way down the list of what residencies care about Also, being stressed and studying constantly with no MS-2
Emergency Medicine
With a P/F grading system, I think students would be equally motivated to learn the material well, but be less stressed while doing it. MS-2
MS-2
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. I answered the questions, year you last completed. but I do not feel strongly about the preclinical grading system. This is in large part because I do not understand the ramifications of changing the system vs. leaving it as it is. I have been graded all my life is some form or another, but when I look back now, I probably could only remember a handful of specific grades that I received, and only in the recent past. My biggest concerns would be 1) how does the change affect student's propensity to cheat and 2) how are these things viewed by residencies? Thank you for taking on this difficult issue.
MS-2
primary care
Theorectically P/F sounds wonderful, but to be honest if we did not have honors in the grading system much less material would be learned, students would have no reason to 'learn the details' (which are important) and there would be no competition for the over-achievers to try their hardest (a little competition is a good thing!) MS-2
Neurology, Cardiology
MS-2
MS-2 Even though the grading system at Pitt did not affect my decision to come here, it definitely affects others and I have found myself trying to reassure applicants who are concerned about our system when they have just come from so many other schools that are simply P/F. MS-2
Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Pediatrics
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. The medical school seems year you last completed. to be sending mixed messages to its students. On the one hand, faculty members want to foster an atmosphere of collaboration between students and seem to severely frown upon outright competition. On the other hand, they appear to undermine their own desires by using the H/P/F grading system and recognizing AOA, which at Pitt is essentially a secret society where the requirements for induction are completely unbeknownst to most students. With regard to grading, several top-tier schools have implemented the P/F system and studies have shown that such a system helps foster an atmosphere of collaboration amongst MS-2
Surgery
MS-2
Dermatology
I think the H/P/F system is just fine. If you want to try hard to get honors, then you can. If you just want to think of the class as P/F, then you can do the bare minimum if you want. I don't understand people making statements like "the H/P/F system drives people to cheat" (in reference to the recent exam distribution scandal). It's utterly ridiculous. Crazy students will always find something new to blame their stress on, rather than focusing on leading a healthy life. I hope there is not a change from the current grading system. MS-2
Pediatric surgery, surgical oncology
MS-2
pediatrics, psychiatry
MS-2
I dont mind honors/pass/fail...what i do mind is that four classes are lumped into one block. it makes it nearly impossible to honor a class and hard to take pride in the classes you do do really well in. you are sort of defeated before you even begin, even if you are striving for honors in every class. what on earth is the value of having a grade for a block and honors/pass/fail within each class in the block? its just preposterous. How can anyone expect to honor anything in second year with such a system!?!? and then you lose motivation to really strive in every class because even honoring is meaningless. MS-2
Ob/Gyn
I think having the possibility of honoring a class is a good thing. I think it motivates some people to learn more. I haven't stressed about it because I have thought that I am unlikely to honor basic science courses so I have treated them as if they are p/f. I think that I have tried harder in the non-basic science courses because I had the possibility of honoring. I am really glad that I didn't go to a school with a 5-tier grading system. I wouldn't be opposed to moving to a p/f system if people thought that grading was really holding them back from participating in other activities. MS-2 MS-2
Emergency Medicine
MS-2
Internal medicine, Pediatrics
MS-2
Surgery, Anesthesiology, Neurology
The current system although attempt to create a more collaborative environment at Pitt Med actually make it more competitive. I believe that why you even have students who were willing to do whatever it took to Honor including cheating. MS-2
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. I actually like the H/P/F My year you last completed. one issue which has been my issue since I got here is that Pitt is really really good at helping the people on the bottom out. For example you have to fail the block rather than fail a class and there is a hard cut off at 70 for passing. Pitt is less helpful for those of us at the top like me. My grades are generally fairly close to the honors mark but if I honor one or two classes in a block it does not always get recorded because I may not have honored the block. There have been other times where the honors cut off was very high. In renal is was about a 96. I think there should be a cut off at the top for honors too. Either 1 standard deviation about or pick some number like 90 or 95 and even if MS-2
Pediatrics, possibly a fellowship after residency
MS-2
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. More important than the year you last completed. actual letter system is the message we get about how important the basic science stuff is. I remember Dr. Ryan saying how absolutely important it was to learn the basic science really well for the future care of our patients, which leads to guilt when you don't learn everything (which is impossible). Other docs say it doesn't really matter. After a year and a half in med school, I still don't know exactly how to look at MSI&II. Is it just an introduction for appreciation sense and to speak the lingo? Should I actually try to memorize the differences between 10+ interleukens or the exact location of the less splanchnic nerve? I have no idea still, and the only MS-2
Psychiatry
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. The honors system has been a negative incentive for me to work harder-After working to my limits of work and coming within a few points of honors, I quickly realized that the people getting honors were the ones working all the time-- literally ALL THE TIME. I am a hard worker, but being able to talk to family and see friends more than at holidays is important to me, not to mention being outside, or doing anything other than studying. My impression of Pitt before I came was that it encouraged students to strive for excellence but also to have a life outside school. It has been discouraging to realize that there is no possibility of having a life if I want to distinguish myself academically in this school-- MS-2
MS-2
Oncology, Internal Medicine, others
I would rather have a constant level of mid-stress than a huge spike when it comes to boards. MS-2 having a chance to get honors significantly increases the effort i put in learning the material. while a very good school, pitt is not one of the top few us medical schools, and it is useful to have criteria to set some students apart. MS-2 MS-2
Dermatology Radiology ENT
unknown
MS-2
OB/gyn, internal medicine
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I think it's absolutely absurd that the school continues to tout how 'supportive' the environment is, how 'noncompetitive' it is, etc, etc, but in reality, they want students to fail. When you grade all students based on how they do relative to each other & recalculate new SDs and cut-offs - not based on the grade cut offs per class, but based on a new average and SD determination at the end of each block for everyone - how else is this to be perceived by students? It's kind of ridiculous that for many classes, the passing cut off is high and the grade needed to get honors is downright unreasonable (ex. only being able to miss one question on the pharm exam to get honors?!?). MS-2
Family Medicine, Emergency Medicine, Ob/Gyn
MS-2
MS-2
Dermatology, Emergency
MS-2
Internal Medicine
I maintain that grading the pre-clinical courses on a relative curve system is detrimental to morale, creates a needless sense of competition, and is a flawed approach to assessment. It would be more productive to provide absolute grades; answering 70% (or whatever the course director's chosen threshold might be) of the questions correctly on a difficult exam should be a passing grade. More even than the H/P/F vs P/F dichotomy, this seems to me to be a positive and needed change. MS-2
I have mixed feelings about H/P/F - I think I learn the basic science course material better, but at the end of almost every block last year, I was 1-2 points away from Honors, and it got really frustrating! I worry that lack of honors will affect my chances of not just residency, but getting research fellowships, etc. MS-2
Hematology/Oncology, Gastroenterology, Endocrinology
MS-2
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. This is a QOL issue. PittMed students are incredibly motivated to learn. By adding unnecessary pressure, I think that Honors has sucked some of the enjoyment from studying here. There is an arguement that the current Honors policy allows PittMed to reward students who work extrahard. While I am sure that many of the students who regularly achieve an Honors grade feel rewarded, I wonder if this is a healthy way to award their hard work. At this stage, doing well on a test should be enough. Additionally, I worry that this policy has incentivized many bright students to not participate in activities that would have enriched MS-2
not surgery...
MS-2
Internal Medicine
MS-2
MS-2
I definitely don't like the current H/P/F system because it's really hard to get honors and equally difficult to fail. Either have a P/F system and make everyone destressed or have a traditional A/B/C/D/F (H/HP/P/F) system so that those of us who are always 1-2% from the Honors cutoff get some recognition instead of being lumped with those who got 2 SDs below the mean.
Pain management (through either neurology or anesthesiology), pulm/CC, gastroenterology
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I know that a certain portion of students give up on trying to get honors after the first couple courses. Others always get honors. I fit into a different category. I have not once gotten honors in the main science courses, yet I continue to strive for honors. This is becoming difficult. I'm getting tired. I'm getting discouraged. I feel stupid. I feel like I'm going to be an underprepared physician. Is this the goal of medical school? Why, then, do I keep trying to get honors? I do this for a couple reasons. 1) I don't want to fail. The only I know how to avoid failing is to "gun" for honors. 2) I am interested in a competitive residency, and I was told to try to get a "smattering" of honors. With each passing course, MS-2
Otolaryngology
Do I care about getting honors or not? - no. Do I want to do as well as I can in my courses? - yes. I think having honors is good, simply because some nerds need something to worry about. MS-2
Cardiology, Infectious Disease, Internal medicine,
What specialty are you applying into? family medicine, internal medicine, pediatrics, psychiatry Psychiatry, Neurology, Neurosurgery, Radiology, Internal Medicine
MS-2
MS-2
MS-2
Neuro
MS-2
MS-2
orthopaedic surgery, internal medicine
MS-2
MS-2
Anesthesia, EM
MS-2
MS-2
Surgery
MS-2 MS-2
Sub-field of medicine
MS-2
pediatrics, psychiatry, neurology
MS-2
surgery
MS-2
MS-2
MS-2
Internal Med
MS-2 Keep H/P/F but shorten science/organ systems blocks. One poor performance in a 4 month block essentially ruins your chance of honoring anyway, making the existence of H/P/F unimportant. If the blocks were shortened H/P/F would have more of an impact. MS-2 MS-2
Cardiology, Radiology
surgery, oncology
MS-2
MS-2
MS-1
Surgery Internal medicine, Neurology
MS-1
the honors aspect of the grading system definitely fosters a less collaborative environment, if everything was P/F people may actually take time to get to know their classmates and live a little MS-2 Once I realize that I can't honor a course, I become much more comfortable focusing on the material that I think I need to know for Step 1 rather than every minute detail in the syllabus. MS-2
psychiatry and pediatrics
MS-2
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I feel that those who perform exceptionally well in classes should be recognized in some way. I am disappointed in my classmates if their only motivation for working hard is the incentive of "honors." Our overall goal is to be good physicians for our patients some day and studying in preclinical years is the foundation for that. I personally do not try to get honors in the basic science courses because I use a lot of supplementary materials to build a foundation in the general subject at the time. To get honors, one needs to pound away at the syllabus, which I don't think is always the best resource. Furthermore, I believe we would be doing a disservice in the form of the informal or hidden curriculum. We MS-2 MS-2
Surgery, ENT, Internal Medicine (Renal)
MS-2
Pediatrcis
MS-2
MS-2
child neorology, neonatal medicine
MS-2
MS-2
MS-2
MS-2
I feel that the grading system only tells me how I are doing relative to my peers, but in no way influences how hard I try to learn the material...I am driven internally to learn as much as I can, for the sake of being a better physician and understanding what it is that I see in a patient, and not for a better grade. That is why the stress level would not be much different if it was a P/F system. MS-2
MS-2
MS-2
Emergency Medicine
MS-1
MS-1 MS-1
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. My opinion is that if you are not going to do a 5 tier grading system, then it should be a P/F school. H/P/F rewards the top 15%, but does nothing for the next 15% (who would presumably have HP in a 5tier system). The second 15% (top 30-15% of class) scored much higher on the test than the bottom 15% (who predominately passed), but in the current system both groups are scored the same, which is an inaccurate reflection of the relative knowledge displayed on the tests. So if you are still going to allow for someone to honor, then you should move to a 5-tier system. But if you do not want a 5tier system, then it should be all P/F so that everyone is on the same plane no MS-1
Surgery
I don't really have a problem with H/P/F. I have heard a lot of unhappiness about it but from what I understand, by the time applications for residency roll around, students are celebrating every honors they have on their transcripts. Without H/P/F, I would wonder if Pitt Med loses students who come here over Harvard, for example, because the have the opportunity to shine (ie get lots of Honors). MS-1
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. Its not so much that I have any serious issue with H/P/F, its just that what is honors (or pass for that matter) is always a moving target. Why not just set some arbitrary percentage for each class, like say a 90% or so, to be honors and a 70% to be pass. Everyone likes to make a stink about how "preclinical grades don't really matter," and I think that 99% of why they don't matter (unless you fail everything, of course) is because they are SOOOO INCONSISTENT that residency directors and such cannot possibly draw any conclusions from them. This year's barely passing may have been last year's mean. There needs to be a more uniform standard. MS-1 MS-1
Pediatric Oncology
MS-1
CT Surgery/ Vascular Surgery/ General Surgery
MS-1
EM, Ortho, Peds, General Surgery, Radiology
MS-1 MS-1 MS-1
There is too much focus on grades and required coursework, and not enough focus on developing enthusiasm and excitement about learning the material so that we can achieve excellence for the sake of our Patients--not our class standing. We need more examples of doctors and teachers who are passionate about their vocations and the role of healing, and less focused on statistics, evaluations, and faculty-development. At the risk of being dramatic, I'd say that the soul of medicine is at stake here. And I think Yale has got it right : ) MS-1 MS-1 MS-1 MS-1
Surgery, Internal Medicine, Emergency Medicine orthopedics Heme/Onc, EM, Derm, Peds
MS-1
Otolaryngology
MS-1
MS-1 Having Pass/Fail in the preclinical years will result in a much lower level of stress for all the students. Everyone still has to take Step 1. I would study just as much if it were pass fail, I just wouldn't feel terrible over missing a single multiple choice question because it was written badly. The current system is probably the worst possible. Either you are scoring above 95 on most exams for honors or you are passing. Those in the passing range go from 94 to 65. Lumping all of these students into one category is clearly misleading. Set the bar for passing higher, but get rid of the honors. You'll see a much more collaborative environment. Students at the top will have much more incentive to help out those who are MS-1
Orthopedic surgery, Cardiovascular Surgery, Neurosurgery
MS-1
MS-1
If you are going to have grades, then it needs to be a 5-tiered system, particularly in the basic science courses. There is no way someone with a 92% in anatomy deserves the same grade as someone with a 68%, but this year, both of those grades earn only a passing grade. Do not go halfway on this. Either do a pass/fail system, or have a 5-tiered system that properly reflects how much people know. Just having honors is very unfair to the large group of people just missing honors who have still worked much harder than the people barely passing. MS-1
Oncology
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I feel that a P/F grading system would decrease much of the unnecessary intensity in the class without having a significantly negative impact on residency applications or personal motivation to learn the material. I would strongly support a move to a P/F system. MS-1
primary care, EM, peds
MS-1 MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
MS-2 MS-1
MS-1
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. h/p/f has the advantage of rewarding those who work a little harder or who want to challenge themselves while not being causing competitiveness in the class. i do not think pitt needs p/f to be collaborative, i think we already are MS-1
genetics, pathology
MS-1
Emergency Medicine
MS-1 it's not the grading system I've a problem with rather the structure of some of the courses (i.e, multiple professors, unorganized syllabus, unnecessary details etc) MS-1
Surgery
MS-1 MS-1
MS-1
OB/GYN
MS-1
MS-1
Clarity and consistency is all I look for from a course. If something is required, make it truly required and stick with it. Inconsistency and a lack of resolve when enforcing rules is what is most frustrating in a course. Our education is wrought with special exceptions, placating, and compromise that does nothing but weaken our education. The real world does not placate and I think our professional education should not either. MS-2 Since many residencies focus on clinical grades rather than preclinical grades (because the board exams account for that), it doesn't make sense to have H/P/F. Being more involved will make us balanced and still other schools that just use Pass Fail perform just as well or better. MS-1
plastic and reconstructive surgery
MS-1
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. MS-1
MS-1
MS-1 MS-1 pediatrics, surgery
MS-1
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. I feel that a change to a Pass/Fail system could be done because of the Scholarly Project. With a scholarly project, a P would still indicate an individual who was academically/scientifically prepared without having to have the designation of 'Honors'. I also feel that a Pass/Fail system would mean that the instructors of courses would certainly need to make an effort to withdraw some material that may be of personal interest to the instructor and replaced with material that would be specifically geared to help students prepare for the USMLE. (It could/should be argued that this could be done anyway.) Doing this would help students achieve MS-1
Internal Medicine, Surgery, EM
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. I feel there are other ways year you last completed. for students to distinguish themselves from others without needing the honors system. I think it does little for students who demonstrate of basic coursework - sometimes at the expense of those that have never seen the material - only to have little inkling as to how to actually apply that knowledge on the wards. In this sense, I am fine with having honors in the third and fourth years. On the other hand, for the first two years, where students of different academic backgrounds are being acclimated to the language of medicine, it is more objectionable to award this kind of distinction. Of course, there are those that have MS-1
MS-1
Pediatrics Orthopaedic Surgery, Family Medicine, Sports Medicine Surgery, Emergency Medicine, Internal Medicine
MS-1
MS-1 MS-1
Urology, ENT, Surgery
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. When considering a 5, 3, or year you last completed. 2-tiered grading system, the current 3-tiered system is by far the least sensible. Every student who performs at a level "sufficient" to graduate from medical school should either be awarded the same passing grade, or they should be assigned a grade that more precisely represents their knowledge and abilities by adopting a 5-tiered system. I suspect that a chief objective of adopting a 3tiered system over a 5tiered one is to reduce competition. If that is the case, the current system fails miserably. I am not contending that the class is especially competitive, because we are not. However, the current system retains a MS-1
Pathology
I feel that the Honors system combined with the fact that our grades are based on the class mean (i.e., we all compare ourselves with each other) encourages a competitive environment. Collaboration is the wave of the future (and should have been the wave of the past). Get with it! MS-1
Most of them.
I think the H/P/F system provides just enough motivation to really study the material even if you think you know it well enough to pass without the added stress of worrying too much about failing or getting a low grade as one might with a 5 tier system. MS-1
Internal medicine, pediatrics, surgery.
I am not so competitive as to battle and stress myself out to get honors but I do think it is something that students strive (or attempt to strive) for, which is a motivator when things look dull. If the grading system was just pass/fail, the students who do really well would have nothing extra to show for their efforts and it would look the same getting 100 or a 60. Also, this might make people learn enough just to pass rather than try learn all the material. This would essentially be a disservice to our future patients, lead to poorer board scores, and possibly incompetant physicians. MS-1 MS-1
pathology Surgery
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. I feel as though the H/P/F year you last completed. system adds much undo stress to a system that I think works well. I came to Pitt because of the P/F system, but the fact that failure or honors depends on the performance of the rest of the class, many of whom are striving for honors, creates a stressful environment where students seem to feel that they must do what ever it takes to be better than the other guy. I think that a P/F system would allow a healthy environment, where students will learn the information because it is important to them and to their future career, not to prove something. I also appreciate that the administration is looking into something like this and asking student's opinions. Thank you. MS-1 I'd support P/F in nonscience courses (Ethics and MDM) MS-1
MS-1 Family medicine, surgery, ob/gyn, pediatrics
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
If we do away with Honors I think we should just do away with grades and make a deal with a test prep company to start us on a USMLE Step 1 program from day 1. Personally, I like having honors. I really don't think our class is overly competitive but it gives me and others the impetus to study really hard and learn the basic science material well. I think if you survey the class as a whole and ask them if honors is worth keeping or not you are bound to get the answer, "do away with honors" because statitically most people do not get honors. MS-1
Neurosurgery, Interventional Neurology, Clinical Neurophysiology
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. I think we should just have year you last completed. an ABCD-F system. Students who would normally fall in the high B low A range have little insentive to work hard because slacking off will still get them a big P on their transcript. For example, I didn't bother studying for the final exam in anatomy becuase I knew I would have to get 100 to possibly honor and just over 50% to fail. I figured without studying I could manage somewhere in between, and I did. The P doesn't show a difference between a 70 or a 90, but I see a big difference in understanding and effort in those numbers. I would add, if ABCD-F is too juvenile, a low pass or a high pass to make it worth while to actually try even if you don't fall in the top MS-1
OBGYN and neonatalogy
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1 MS-1
ortho, EM, ID, IM Pediatrics
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
peds, family medicine
I would be interested to know what the larger implications of P/F are...ie. what other schools use pass/fail, how does it affect their students getting into residency programs, etc. MS-1 MS-1 pediatrics, neonatology
Year in medical school. If Please feel free to add on a research year, please comments about the select the medical school preclinical grading system. year you last completed. Due to the nature of medical school, where most professors are unaware exactly how much we know on a given topic (since any individual professor teaches only a few courses in the block and is often unaware of what we learned in another block) we are often asked questions on exams that are beyond what was covered in class or the syllabus. Also at times, we are asked questions where choosing the right answer is based not on knowledge but on the interpretation of the question. During both of these scenarios, I would like to be able to focus on simply learning the material and not waste time trying to earn back points on issues that are largely irrelevant to being a good physician. However, MS-1 MS-1
Surgery
Honestly, I feel that first and second year course grades are largely ignored by residency programs, and it make no difference between H/P/F and P/F. I think that Pitt is not an overly competitive school, but students would be more likely to participate in activities outside of the classroom if the grading system was P/F. MS-1
Primary care/internal medicine
In the scheme of things, I think it will have very little consequence. The school should work to make the syllabi and classroom time more cohesive. Honestly, the disjointed syllabi and poor lecture and pbl quality detract from learning much more than grading. MS-1
MS-1 radiology, radiation oncology
MS-1
MS-1
ophthalmology
MS-1 I understand the importance of being able to distinguish those who consistently perform above and beyond in academics, but I also see how ridiculous the stress levels get and how competitive our non-competitive environment can get. I don't have a simple answer because I think that if my classmates do superior work, they should get credit for it. However, in the absence of the Honors distinction, I think that students might try doing other things that will help them stand out, things that might help the student body, medical school and community as a whole because we really would have to, as students, do more community service or research or shadowing to truly stand out from our MS-1
Med-Peds, Oncology
MS-1 I would actually prefer 5 tier system, but if not possible p/f would be better.
MS-1
Pediatrics, Sports Medicine
For some preclinical courses, the honors system favors students who come into med school with previous background in a particular subject area. I strongly doubt that the level of effort or academic rigor would decrease if the system were to change from H/P/F to P/F. ENT, Internal Medicine, PMNR
MS-1
I haven't received grades for any blocks, yet. I was on the line for honors in Anatomy, but I don't think that I got it. We'll see. Honors/Pass/Fail is a satisfactory system for me. I think that it incentivizes good study skills during preclinical courses. While I believe that changing H/P/F to P/F in the pre-clinical courses would have some sort of affect on my overall experience, I don't think it would be a profound effect that would instantly lower my stress level. MS-1 I don't really see why honors matters that much. I'm just trying to pass which is tough enough. MS-1
Otolaryngology, Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, Pathology
internal medicine family medicine
MS-1 MS-1
MS-1
MS-1 MS-1 It is not clear how the grading scheme would work on a P/F system (i.e. would the standard deviation scale change and how). It seems that a h/p/f system pushes for academic achievement at the cost of stress and less free time for extracurricular activity. I'm sure those that get honors like the it there as a goal to achieve and a form of recognition. a/b/c/d/f would be a HORRIBLE idea...don't do it! MS-1
Pedatrics, surgery
Pediatrics ENT, Anaesthesiology emergency medicine
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
emergency medicine Surgery, Radiology, Pathology
MS-1
MS-1 We have not actually been informed of our final grades for any class yet. MS-1
pediatrics, neonatology, oncology
Radiology, Surgery
Too much stress with such a competative class. I feel like I'm starting to burn out and as a result my studying habits are suffering. I'm a very competative person and as long as there's the 'honors' grade, I will be less likely to help others and I also cannot dedicate my time to other important things in medschool like research and shadowing. MS-1 I don't try to honor but there's something about having it as an option that makes the program seem more legitimate.
surgery
MS-1
Primary Care Emergency Medicine Internal Medicine, Pediatrics
MS-1
MS-1
MS-1
Orthopedic Surgery
MS-1
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Sometimes Satisfied Prefer not to answer
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Prefer not to answer Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3
Sometimes
Satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors?
Always
Very satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Always
Very satisfied
OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Rarely
Very satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 3
Rarely
Satisfied
Always Always
Satisfied Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 2 Prefer not to answer
Always
Unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3
Sometimes
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3 Neuroscience/Psychiatry;# Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3
Sometimes
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 3
Sometimes
Satisfied
GI/Hematology/Endocrine/ Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Always
Satisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1
Always
Unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3
Always
Very satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes Always Sometimes
Unsatisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied
Neuroscience/Psychiatry;# Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Always
Very satisfied
Rarely
Satisfied
Rarely
Satisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3
Sometimes
Satisfied
Neuroscience/Psychiatry;# Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3 Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Patient, Physician & Society 2
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Always
Satisfied
Rarely Sometimes
Rarely Always
Prefer not to answer Basic Science of Care Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3
Always
Satisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Pharmacology Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#GI/Hematology/Endocri ne/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology
Rarely
Satisfied
Always Rarely
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 2 Prefer not to answer
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Pharmacology
Always
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Rarely
Very unsatisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Scientific Reasoning 1
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology
Always
Unsatisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Always
Satisfied
Prefer not to answer Introduction to Patient Care 4
Never
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Prefer not to answer Neuroscience/Psychiatry;# GI/Hematology/Endocrine/ Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Always
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 3
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Always
Unsatisfied
Basic Science of Care;#Pharmacology;#Intro duction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 4 Prefer not to answer
Rarely Sometimes
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Always
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3
Sometimes
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Always
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 3
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Rarely
Satisfied
Always Sometimes
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Always
Very satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Very unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 3
Rarely Sometimes
Satisfied Satisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Prefer not to answer Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Introduction to Patient Care 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 3 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Scientific Reasoning 2
Sometimes
Very satisfied
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Pharmacology Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#GI/Hematology/Endocri ne/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Pharmacology;#Introdu ction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 4
Always
Satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Always Sometimes
Neuroscience/Psychiatry;# OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#GI/Hematolo gy/Endocrine/Repro & Dvlp Biology;#Basic Science of Care;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Pharmacology Prefer not to answer
Rarely Never
Satisfied Satisfied
Scientific Reasoning 1 Prefer not to answer
Sometimes Sometimes
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 Prefer not to answer
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Never
Very unsatisfied
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Always Very satisfied Care 2 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Always
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Prefer not to answer Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1
Rarely
Satisfied Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Rarely
Very unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Rarely
Very satisfied
Rarely
Satisfied
Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Rarely
Satisfied
Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1
Sometimes
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2
Never
Unsatisfied Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1
Rarely
Very satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Always
Unsatisfied
Scientific Reasoning 1
Never
Satisfied
Scientific Reasoning 2
Sometimes
Satisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Always
Unsatisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1
Always
Very satisfied
Always
Very satisfied
Neuroscience/Psychiatry;# Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Rarely
Satisfied
Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y
Always
Unsatisfied
Rarely Sometimes
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Prefer not to answer Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 1
Sometimes
Satisfied
Rarely
Satisfied
Always
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2
Always
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Neuroscience/Psychiatry;# Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Introduction to Patient Care 1 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Sometimes
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Always
Satisfied
Always Rarely
Very satisfied Unsatisfied
Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer Introduction to Patient Care 2
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Never
Very satisfied
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Basic Science of Care;#Introduction to Patient Care 3;#Introduction to Patient Sometimes Satisfied Care 4
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Never
Satisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Always
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 3;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Pharmacolo gy
Rarely
Satisfied
Rarely
Very satisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Neuroscience/Psychiatry;# Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Always
Very unsatisfied
Never
Very satisfied
Never
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Very unsatisfied
Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1
Always
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Always
Very satisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Always Satisfied Care 2
Sometimes Sometimes
Unsatisfied Satisfied Prefer not to answer
Never
Unsatisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1 Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Always
Very unsatisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#Scientific Reasoning 1
Sometimes
Satisfied
Always Rarely
Prefer not to answer Introduction to Patient Care 2
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Always
Very unsatisfied
Prefer not to answer Patient, Physician & Society 2
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Rarely
Satisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes Sometimes
Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2 Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2
Always
Very satisfied
Never
Very unsatisfied
Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 1;#Introduction to Patient Care 2 Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis
Always
Satisfied
Never
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Prefer not to answer Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Basic Science Fundamentals 2;#Basic Science Fundamentals 3;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 2;#Scientific Reasoning 2;#Introduction to Patient Care 2
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Scientific Reasoning 1 Introduction to Patient Care 1
Never
Unsatisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Always Never
Sometimes
Satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1
Sometimes Sometimes
Satisfied Satisfied
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Rarely Sometimes Sometimes
Very unsatisfied Satisfied Unsatisfied
Never Sometimes Rarely Sometimes
Satisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied Satisfied Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer Prefer not to answer
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Basic Science Fundamentals 1 Basic Science Fundamentals 1
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Always
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Always
Very satisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Sometimes Rarely
Never
Satisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied Basic Science Fundamentals 1;#Neuroscience/Psychiatr y;#OS2:Body Fluid Homeostasis;#Patient, Physician & Society 1;#Scientific Reasoning 1;#Pharmacology
Sometimes Sometimes
Very satisfied Unsatisfied
Rarely
Satisfied
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes Always
Unsatisfied Unsatisfied Prefer not to answer
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Never
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Always
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Very satisfied
How satisfied are you with Do you strive for honors in the current grading scheme In which blocks did you preclinical courses? in the preclinical years? receive honors? Always Satisfied Basic Science Fundamentals 1
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes Sometimes
Unsatisfied Satisfied Basic Science Fundamentals 1
Always
Very unsatisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Very unsatisfied
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes Sometimes
Always
Unsatisfied
Never
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Very satisfied
Sometimes Sometimes
Never
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Always
Satisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Always
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Never
Very unsatisfied
Never
Unsatisfied
Always Rarely
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Unsatisfied
Sometimes Sometimes
Sometimes Sometimes
Very unsatisfied Satisfied
Never
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Rarely
Unsatisfied
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Never
Very unsatisfied
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Always
Very satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Never
Satisfied
Sometimes Rarely
Satisfied Satisfied
Rarely
Satisfied
Sometimes Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Always Sometimes Never
Very satisfied Unsatisfied Very satisfied Prefer not to answer
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Never
Unsatisfied
Never
Satisfied
Always
Satisfied
Sometimes
Very unsatisfied
Never Never Never
Very satisfied Satisfied Satisfied
Always
Unsatisfied
Sometimes
Satisfied
Sometimes Always= 88 (28.8%) Sometimes=134 (43.8%) Rarely= 54 (17.6%) Never= 30 (9.8%)
Satisfied Very satisfied= 45 (14.8%) Satisfied= 120 (39.3%) Unsatisfied=105 (34.4%) Very unsatisfied=35 (11.5%)

Grading Survey Results

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Grading Survey Results

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I would be more likely to take a Mini-Elective.

I would be more likely to be involved in a student group. 1 1 2 3 3

I would be more likely to take on a leadership position. 1 1 2 3 3

I would be more likely to shadow a physician. 1 1 2 2 3

I would be more likely to engage in recreational activities. 5 1 2 2 3

I would learn my basic science course material better. 5 1 4 5 5

I would be a better candidate for residency. 5 1 1 2 5

I would be more likely to participate in research. 3 1 3 3 5

I would experience less stress in my life. 5 1 2 2 3

My classmates would experience less stress in their lives. 5 1 1 3 3

Pitt Med would be a very collaborative environment. 1 1 3 3

Pitt Med would be an academically rigorous environment. 5 5 5 5 5

I am motivated to learn my basic science course material very well. 4 1 3 4 5

Yes - for all preclinical courses

Yes - for all preclinical courses

Yes - for non-basic science courses only

Yes - for all preclinical courses

Not at all Not at all

Positively -- I wanted to come to a school that gave honors in preclinical courses.

Not at all Negatively -- I wish Pitt Med had pass/fail grading.

Not important at all

Somewhat important Somewhat important Somewhat important Somewhat important

Not important at all Somewhat important

Somewhat important Not important at all

Somewhat important Not important at all Somewhat important Somewhat important

Somewhat important Somewhat important Somewhat important

Not important at all Somewhat important Somewhat important

Somewhat important Somewhat important Very important

Somewhat important Not important at all Not important at all

Not important at all

MS-4 MS-3 MS-3 MS-3

MS-4 MS-4 MS-4 MS-4

MS-4 MS-4 MS-4 MS-4 MS-4 MS-3

MS-3 MS-4 MS-4 MS-4

MS-4 MS-3 MS-4

MS-2 MS-4 MS-3

MS-4 MS-4 MS-4

MS-4 MS-4 MS-4

What specialty are you applying into?

Internal Medicine General Surgery

I would be more likely to attend lunch talks. 1 3 2 3 3

family medicine/psychiatry combined Radiology not sure

Peds Orthopaedics Family Medicine Internal Medicine

Ophthalmology Emergency Medicine

Emergency Medicine Ob/gyn Dermatology internal medicine Psychiatry

unknown Emergency Medicine

not sure Diagnostic Radiology

Pediatrics Otolaryngology FM or PM&R

Radiology Internal Medicine

internal medicine Internal Medicine

I would be more likely to volunteer or participate in community service. 5 3 2 3 3

I would be more likely to attend optional classes (lectures, labs). 1 3 2 5 3

Rarely Rarely Always Always

Always Sometimes Sometimes Sometimes

Sometimes Always Sometimes Always Rarely Rarely

Always Rarely Sometimes

Rarely Always Always

Rarely Sometimes Rarely

Always Rarely Always

Rarely Always Rarely

Very satisfied Satisfied Satisfied Satisfied

Unsatisfied Satisfied Satisfied Satisfied

Unsatisfied Unsatisfied Satisfied Very satisfied Satisfied Satisfied

Satisfied Satisfied Unsatisfied