-S~CREI

• Event: Interview of FBI Special Agent Lance Kuhn

Type of event: Interview

Dates: January 5, 2004

Special Access Issues: None

Prepared by: Hyon Kim

Team Number: lA

Location: FBI, Phoenix Field Office

Participants - Non-Commission: FBI, Assistant General Counsel Sean O'Neill

Participants - Commission: Rajesh De, Michael Jacobson, Hyon Kim

SA Kuhn was the case agent for the Lotti Raissi case and for the Hamud Hamdan al-
Sulami case. SA Kuhn is a defendant in the civil case filed by Lotti Raissi.

•
~SA Kuhn discussed the many reasons for suspicion of Lotti Raissi. There were
numerous individuals both at Sawyer Aviation and in the relevant apartment complexes
who said that Raissi was an associate of Hani Hanjour. They may have carpooled
together at Arizona Aviation. Records indicate that on March 8, 1998, Raissi and
Hanjour signed up for the same plane one after the other.

<% There is evidence that Raissi, Hani Hanjour, Faisal al-Salmi and Rayed Abdullah
signed up to use the simulator at Sawyer Aviation in the summer of2001. The computer
records show that Hanjour was entered into the system on June 23, 2001 for a one-month
membership. After becoming a member, it would not have been necessary for Hanjour to
have signed a record or logbook when he actually used the simulator.

¢ An employee at Sawyer, Tina Arnold, recalls four individuals using the simulator
during this time period: Raissi, ai-Salmi, Abdullah, and a fourth individual. Arnold
picked the photo of Hanjour as the fourth individual but was not 100% sure.

~ SA Kuhn also pointed out the statements on

Hanjour during this time period, as well as the' testimony oil
Iwho recalled seeing
I the owner
of the furniture store who recalled seeing Faisal ai-Salmi with Hanjour during the
summer of2001. ! /

~ Lotti Raissi entered the U.S. in November of 1996 and ~~riin April of2000. During

•
this time period he did make a few trips to Europe. He returned to the U.S. in June of
2001. ' ,

S8GRE'-'

9/11 Personal Privacy

'9/11 Personal Privacy

• \ \\ \<:Jt) SA Kuhn finds it very suspicious that Raissi had ripped out the pages of his logbook
\~ \. 'for the summer 2001 time period. SA Kuhn has examined the actual logbook and it
:\ \. app~ars that the pages were very carefully ripped out. SA Kuhn also noted the report
\'" \. fro'n~"'FourForces Aviation in the U.K. where Raissi was training. The report indicated
\\ ....
that hl)une of 2000, Raissi asked if a plane flies into a building whether it is the
\\ ~spo~'lQility of the airline or the pilot. The Four Forces Aviation source also reported
~ t~.: Rals~::..~.ad made a comment along the lines of "America will get theirs."

\\ {sO"$A Kuhn'briefly recounted Raissi's past history such as the 1993 theft arrest in the
\\ U.i<. ..·.·.
under th~'.name Vincent Algiers and the incident with the Italian authorities in 1996.
\\With regard tot > . Ithe Italia~ diplom~t with ties to Raissi, .it appears that
'\ "~nd Ralssl"s{amtly members are Involved In a fraudulent document scheme.

it> SA r<\lhn also me~t.ioned the report that an article found in an al-Qa'ida house in
A{ghanista.~ had Raissi ;·s...~ame circled. .

R~S~'sa~~~~sinclud~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
an" .... ,

The first set ofcharges against Raissi were based on his false statements to the FAA. The

•
second set of charges were more serious arising from Raissi' s role in Redouane
Dahmani's false asylum application. The charges were never presented to the British.
SA Kuhn believesthat the expectations were set too high so that the British courts were
expecting a mUrder···~~arge.

SA Kuhn finds it verY...suspicious that Faisal ai-Salmi kept his flight training a secret. His
explanation was that hc....
wanted to avoid embarrassment should he fail.

~~a~lIblllll:lieyes tbat tti~~ willbl bi'¥C been "<miters" fUt r-Qa'ida in the Phoenix

~ SA Kuhn clarified the paragraph in many of the Phoenix documents regarding the
Saudi gatherings in Phoenix." ....
There is no reporting that Nawaf aJ-Hazmi and Hani
Hanjour were at the gatherings ..bill weWbet~flf:tJe Saudi group met al-Hazmi and
Hanjour. An individual namedl _admitted that he used to see al-Hazmi at
t,e ASU library.

J!JThe meetings held by Fouzan in Tucson were separate from al- Thukair's meetings in
/Tempe. ShatheJe was the successor to Thukair.

/ %The Saudi club in Tucson was funded by the Saudi government. Al- Thukair's
/ meetings were paid for by its membership. The Saudi government funds one club for the
.I entire state.

• 9/11 Law Enforcement Sensitive

SgCRE:p' 2
9/11 Personal Privacy
.-BECRE'I'"

.........%> SA·Ku~. was familiar with the reporting that al-Shalawi was in the training camps in
-.·...I.~.te2000, butdidnot have specific information on the dates.

Al-Sulami entered the US·in.l995 to attend the University of Missouri in Kansas City.
He entered ASU in 1997 to obtain.a Ph.D. in mathematics. Al-Sulami knew Hanjour and
al-Hazrni.from the ICC. Al-Sularni ·was.i~}sOclose to al-Shalawi.

\.....¢There areflve phone numbers in the Phoe~·i>"ar-e~-;that were in touch with Sheik AI-
\..A wan. the soiritual advisor to Abu Zubaydah. They aiel
1 I Another phone number that w.. a-s"""ll!"!"ink"""!"""e"""ld!""!i-s"'!"io-c-a-te"""ld,..a-t"""lth,..e--
.....
Quadrangles apartment complex, where Rayed Abdullah lived. The phone calls from the
five numbers were in early 2002. There were other US numbers in touch with the AI-
Awan number. '.

!85 SA Kuhn noted that al-Sh~rb~ had asked his interrogators if al-Sulami had been
arrested. . -.

SA Kuhn discussed Rayed Abdullah, who contacted the FBI after 9111. Abdullah was
well-respected at the ICC, mainly for memorizing the Koran. There is no indication that
Abdullah had attended the camps. '.

.xs) SA Kuhn

•
was familiar with the reporting fr~riJ Ithat there was a
36-year old Yemeni pilot in Phoenix who was suppo~.ed to have participated in 9111.
Rayed Abdullah was too young for the description, but Is
a possibility. SA
Kuhn sent a lead to Buffalo seeking more information, but he has not received a
response. SA Kuhn agreed to provide his EC with the lead to Buffalo. SA Kuhn also has
a recent draft LHM on the Raissi case, which (he FBI will work on providing to the
Commission. /

On Wednesday, January 7, SA Kuhn asked-to speak to Commission staff. He wanted to

urge caution that in the writing of the Commission's report we do not reveal information
that could inform the terrorists on how to improve their likelihood of success in another
9/11 type attaCk.//

9/11 Law Enforcement Sensitive

• 3