You are on page 1of 3

Question: Can a plate welder tested per ASME Section IX, QW-461.

9, be determined to be qualified to weld a nozzle/coupling (a penetration) of any size into the "shell" or wall of a Tank (API 650/653) or a Pressure Vessel (API 510)? The welder will have passed by a qualification test as follows: 2G, 3G, and 4G, groove welds on plate. Or should we be looking into another location of ASME Section IX for this information? It has been my understanding that a nozzle going thru the shell or wall of a tank or vessel is covered by the test above, because we are not breaking into the wall of the pipe or preparing the pipe in any way for the weld joint. On thicker shells or walls the cutout hole in the shell would be beveled to allow penetration, thru the wall or shell, not the pipe. Also, these nozzles and or couplings allow access to both sides of the shell, so to allow the welder to backgouge or backgrind to clean metal, or to say to allow the welder to make a full penetration weld. We are not welding into the pipe, but on the outside of the pipe wall, joining the outer pipe wall to the tank/vessel wall. I do not believe this is a job for a "Pipe welder", but a job that can be handled by a qualified plate welder. Welding a penetration thru the tank/vessel shell or wall that just as easily could have been a piece of solid cold roll material or some other penetration thru the shell, it just happens to be a piece of pipe. Rick Swayne: In my opinion, this requires a plate groove weld qualification. SC IX has answered several similar questions. The most recent are IX-80-67, IX-80-05, IX80-02, and IX-78-18. Rick Swayne Reedy Engineering rswayne@reedyeng.com (408) 558-0330 Dixon Kerr: Plate qualifies large diameter piping and the vessel is large diameter piping so you are correct. I believe the plate qualified welder is qualified to weld the nozzle into the vessel. Dixon Kerr Mason Line Consulting LLC dixonkerr@gmail.com (925) 376-9093

Ron Yonekawa: Interesting question. This seems to be a larger question than just plate vs. pipe qualifications. It also seems to include plate position vs. pipe position, and diameter restrictions. Refer to table QW-461.9. This table indicates that if a welder is qualified by groove welds on plate, he would be qualified for pipe in various plate-like positionsthat is, plate qualifications seem to not qualify 5G or 6G pipe positions, but does qualify for welding pipe if positioned in a manner wherein the weld could be described by one of the plate positions. There are a few interpretations below that might provide some guidance. From the description in the question that you sent, the actual joint is not specifically as discussed in IX-80-51, but more like sketches (c), (d) and (e) of Fig UW-16.1 in Section VIII. For those positions, I think I can agree, that if the pipe to shell weld joint can match one of the positions qualified by the various plate performance qualification positions, then the plate qualification can be used. If you are talking nozzles/couplings over 2-7/8 OD with its axis vertical, such that you are talking flat or overhead welding, this is pretty straightforward. But, when the nozzle/coupling is moved such that its axis is horizontal, it seems to get complicated. For these, I would default to using pipe qualifications. Hope that helps. Interpretation: IX-80-51: Subject: Date Issued: File: Question (1): Section IX, Performance Qualification August 26, 1980 BC-80-448 Are welders who make groove welds attaching nozzle necks or couplings, that are less than 2-7/8 in. O.D., to shells or heads using the attachment joint detail shown in Fig. UW-6.1 sketch (a), (b), or (w-3) required to be qualified on 2 in. or smaller diameter pipe? Yes. Does qualification on plate in the 2G (Horizontal) position qualify a welder to make the above groove welds when the O.D. of the nozzle or coupling is 2-7/8 in. and over. in the 1G position or the 2G position. or both? Yes.

Reply (1): Question (2):

Reply (2):

Question (3):

Does qualification on plate in the 3G (Vertical) position qualify a welder to make the above groove welds when the O.D. of the nozzle or coupling is 2-7/8 in. and over, in the 1G position only? Yes. If groove welds attaching nozzle necks or couples to shells or heads using the attachment joint detail shown in Fig. UW-16.1 sketch (a). (b), or (w-3), for all diameters through 24 in. are to be made in the 5G or 6G position, is the welder required to be tested on pipe as a test in plate would not qualify in these positions? Yes.

Reply (3): Question (4):

Reply (4):

Interpretation: IX-92-41: Subject: Date Issued: File: Question: Section IX, QW-461.9, Performance Qualifications Position and Diameter Limitations May 28, 1992 BC92-035 Are welders qualified on plate in 2G, 3G, and 4G positions qualified to weld on pipe less than 24 in. OD in the 5G position? No.

Reply:

Ron Yonekawa Bechtel Power Corporation rayoneka@bechtel.com (415) 768-1685