QUESTIONS

Mary Ann Wyrsch

OCOTBER 10,2003

Background.

• how did you come by your job at INS ?

• what did Meissner tell you your job would entail ?
• what were the high priorities at the time you became Deputy Commissioner in
early 1998?
• Who did Commissioner and Deputy answer to on a day to day basis? I

Information avenues and intelligence. /L /

o What role, if any, did you see for the INS in counterterrorism?

Did you receive regular intelligence briefings?

° HOW Often? yf//^M M t*^£Q,\tn w<** T>0T .'
- What was included?
tfft o What was your knowledge of Islamic fundamentalism ami UBL?
o Who from within the INS?
• Intel. Unit (George
• NSU
• Lookout Unit
• Counsel's Office on special interest cases
• The field
• JTTF detailees or CIA detailees
• Headquarters Operations Center.

Please explain the roles of each of these units within the INS.

o Who did you receive intelligence from outside the INS1

o DOJ DAG or Jim Reynolds Office
o FBI •' A<
o CIA
o NSC or Dick Clarke
• Ever any meetings at NSC or with Dick Clarke ? requests for
assistance?
• Ever any meetings with Freeh or Mueller or other FBI persons
requesting assistance?
• The CIA?
Was the DOJ, FBI, CIA, White House supportive of INS in CT?

o Did you ever seek more intelligence? How did you view your relationship with
the intelligence community?
 o At what point did you become aware of the activities of terrorists in the US?
Islamic fundamentalist terrorists?

o Were you aware of UBL's 1998 fatwah? ft 0 •

Response to intelligence/information received.

o Were you aware of UBL as a threat? Did anyone see UBL as a threat and that the
INS had a role to play on the borders and in internal enforcement b/c of INS
exclusive Title 8 authority? */^ .
o Were you aware ofPDD-39 requiring INS to exclude terrorists? What was youj:
response to that requirement? A£#*S trz T/P 0f*f~-
o To the Africa bombings of '98? tw+*>-+*. r
o To Ressam and the millennium plot in late 1999?
o Strategies.
o Was there ever a CT strategy drafted? If so,:
o Who was tasked with CT policy? £»-ct\ Who was tasked with CT operations.

o To what extent did hdqtrs know of CT operations ongoing?

o View of the internal enforcement strategy?
o Did you ever request analyses be conducted on terrorist penetration of the
border, especially after the Ressam /millennium case? /!/ O

o Budget resources.
• who ultimately responsible for INS budget?
• What were the budget priorities?
o What allocation to internal enforcement? $ £$ •£•* "Ti » .
o To CT?
o To inspections technology? \ojt*jufc** *^v^lC**»'»io-k«W*
o To fraud training and technology?
o Did you ever seek out DOj, OMB or Congress to provide more
funding on CT?
o To what extent was Congress, from you vantage point,
interested in the INS playing a role in CT considering INS
exclusive jurisdiction over Title 8?
Policy Council. Who instituted it and what was its purpose?

Programs.

Student tracking.
• What did you see as the purpose/mission of CIPRIS
• Briefing of by Berez
• Fee schedule reg. What was the process by which the fee regulation was
meted out within the INS prior to its publication for comment?
 Entry / exit.
• 1996 law mandated it. What happened to it?

Refugees and global terrorism

1 . What is your view of the impact of global terrorism on the refugee admission
process?
2. Are you aware of any terrorists using the refugee process to gain admission to the
US? /v'
T
To +u count
any other
3. What is the impact on other countries - either their views of the U.S. or their own
willingness to accept refugees - of the current drop in refugee admissions? /t***^
4. What is the name of the office at DHS focused on refugee admissions? NAME
OF OFFICE and location of office in DHS
5. Whom do you recommend our speaking with at DHS about the current refugee
admission process? NAME OF DHS person
6. Whom do you recommend our speaking with atDOS about the current refugee
admission process? NAME of DOS person (4|eJhyDewey?)
1. What do you think the USG needs to do to raise the level of refugee admissions to
meet the Presidential commitment level of 70,000 from the current under 28,000?
(If there is paper on this, that would be good.) Is she optimistic that the US will
return to its previous level? V-
8. In your current position at UNHCR do you receive intelligence relating to >•*-
refugees and refugee camps? (If so, from whom? Adequate? Impact on policy
and practice?) (If not, is this a problem in your mind?)

If appropriate, how do we follow up with her for more details on these matters?
 9/11 Personal
Privacy
"homas H. Kean
:HAIR
.ee H. Hamilton
'ICE CHAIR
Uchard Ben-V«niste
.fax Cleland
•'rederick F. Fielding
amie S. Gore lick
ilade Gorton
ohn F. Lehman
HmothyJ. Roemer
ames R. Thompson
'hilip D. Zelikow
XECUTIVE DIRECTOR
October 7, 2003
Mr. Jack Shaw
Dear Mr. Shaw:
The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States is
directed by statute to investigate the facts and circumstances surrounding the
September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including the nation's preparedness for,
and immediate response to, those attacks, as well as to evaluate the lessons
learned from those attacks and to make recommendations for preventing future
attacks. As part of its investigation, the Commission hereby requests to
interview you on issues relating to policy, budget, leadership and resource
issues regarding internal enforcement of the INS prior to September 11, 2001.
The Commission anticipates that classified information may be discussed at this
interview. We would also like to discuss your views on the future of
immigration and border control policy since September 11 to combat terrorism.
Janice Kephart-Roberts, a member of the Commission's professional staff, will
make the arrangements for your interview. The Commission would like to
conduct your interview at our office located at 301 7th Street, SW, Room 5125,
Washington, B.C. on Thursday, October 9 at 2:00 p.m. At least two members
of the Commission's staff will attend your interview, and the general policy of
the Commission is to tape record interviews. Please call Joanne Accolla at
202.401.1774 as soon as possible to confirm these arrangements and discuss the
time and location of your interview. Please call Janice Kephart-Robdrts at
202.401.1705 to raise any other questions you may have.
Thank you very much in advance for your time and for your cooperation with
the Commission and its staff in this important matter.
Yours sincerely,
Q
Philip Zelikow
Executive Director
301 7lh Street SW, Room 5125
Washington, DC 20407
T 202.331.4060 F 202.296.5545
www.9-1 lcommission.gov
 9/11 Personal
Privacy

homas H. Kean October 7, 2003.

HAIR

ec H. Hamilton
ICE CHAIR Mr. Greg Bednarz
.ichard Ben-Veniste

/fax Cleland

'rederick F. Fielding
Dear Mr. Bednarz:

ami* S. Oorelick The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States is
directed by statute to investigate the facts and circumstances surrounding the
'lade Cotton
September 11,2001 terrorist attacks, including the nation's preparedness for,
ohn F. Lehman and immediate response to, those attacks, as well as to evaluate the lessons
learned from those attacks and to make recommendations for preventing future
"imothy j. Roemer
attacks. As part of its investigation, the Commission hereby requests to
ames R. Thompson interview you on issues relating to policy, budget, leadership and resource
issues regarding internal enforcement of the INS prior to September 11, 2001.
'hilip D. Zelikow The Commission anticipates that classified information may be discussed at this
XECUTIVE DIRECTOR interview. We would also like to discuss your views on the future of
immigration and border control policy since September 11 to combat terrorism.

Janice Kephart-Roberts, a member of the Commission's professional staff, will

make the arrangements for your interview. The Commission would like to
conduct your interview at our office located at 301 7th Street, SW, Room 5125,
Washington, D.C. on Thursday, October 9 at 2:00 p.m. At least two members
of the Commission's staff will attend your interview, and the general policy of
the Commission is to tape record interviews. Please call Joanne Accolla at
202.401.1774 as soon as possible to confirm these arrangements and discuss the
time and location of your interview. Please call Janice Kephart-Roberts at
202.401.1705 to raise any other questions you may have.

Thank you very much in advance for your time and for your cooperation with
the Commission and its staff in this important matter.
Yours sincerely,

Philip Zelikow
Executive Director

301 7lh Street SW, Room 5125

Washington, DC 20407
T 202.331.4060 F 202.296.5545
www.9-llcommission.gov
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 Commission Sensitive

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Event: Interview of Morrie Berez, DHS senior officer in the Bureau of Citizenship and
Immigration Services. Interviewed in his former capacity as architect of the original
student tracking program at INS.
Date: Thursday, October 2,2003 ......
J /9/11 Personal
Special Access Issues: [none] Privacy
Prepared by: Janice Kephart-Roberts on October 6,2003
Team Number: 5 (Border Security)
Location: GSA
Participants - Non-Commission: Morrie Berez|_
Tom Muther, 202-307-8119, BCIS counsel's office

Participants - Commission: Janice Kephart-Roberts

Tom Eldridge
Note: no classification required
Documents received: See Appendix Two
Documents requested at interview under pending document request:
"Functional requirements" document
Originally drafted fee reg, and one Wyrsch required changes on.
Recording: a tape recording can be found on Team 5, Folder A, Track 5.

NOTES:

Interviewee. Morrie Berez. DHS senior officer in the Bureau of Citizenship and
Immigration Services. Interviewed in his former capacity as architect of the original
student tracking program at INS, the CIPRIS Task Force.
Background. Received a bachelor's in business and econ, amaster's in public
administration. Spent two years with the Peace Corps in Africa. Did health care fraud
detection for HCVA. From 1974-1980, worked for GAO where did investigations of
programs in violation of their mandate: funeral home industry, veterans administration,
the federal health benefit program. 1980-85: Worked on the DOE Fed Regulatory
Commission. In Nov. 1985, joined the INS where assigned to try to centralize then
decentralized functions. Set up the telephone service centers which verified the validity
of green card holders and border crossing cards into a system called ACTION on a 24/7
basis. System received 100,000 queries per year via the CLAIMS or Central Index
System. (IBIS is different; that's a lookout system rec'g info from 26 different agencies.)
In 1994, assigned to the Office of Examination student unit which did oversight
over the regulations and policies pertaining to foreign students. These regs would
become the basis for the initial work of the CIPRIS task force, prior to the statute of
section 641 in IIRIRA. Regulations governing students were:
• 8 CFR 214.2 (f), (m), and (j)
• 214.3 re approval of institutions
• 214.4 re withdrawal of approval of institutions
• 22 CFR re rules governing 14 categories of schools and exchange programs.

The story of CIPRIS.

1994. On April 16, the student unit received a query via Deputy Commissioner
Chris Sale (now a comptroller at OMB) from DAG Jamie Gorelick in re
to the Louis Freeh memo on behalf of the DOJ enforcement task force
noting that tracking of students would be helpful to law enforcement.
Gorelick wanted to know what the INS was doing about it and Berez was
tasked with writing the response.
On April 19, The Murrah building is bombed in Oklahoma City. The FBI
wants student information for all the surrounding areas from 9 MidEast
countries. Upon querying the "Student School System" (STSC), Berez found
that this data storage system was a disaster: not every school was entered into
the system, not all students, and info was old and unreliable. The records had
been updated in 1988, but not since.
Berez already knew students information should be important to law
enforcement since one conspirator of the 93 WTC case was an out of status
Wichita State student. Luckily for that case, an 1-20 and 1-94 were found. His
student status had enabled him to acquire breeder documents for legitimacy in
US.
Even more recently a Hamas terrorist was caught trying to corss the SW
border with a coyote (alien smuggler).

1995. In May, Berez was the primary author of a paper detailing what needed to
happen to update the STSC. Berez recommended an interagency task
force, and stated his vision for it. In it would include the CIA and FBI, but
later told only INS liaisons would be allowed. Program Office also said no
to including intel.
a. In late May 1995, Greg Bednars was Sales' special assistant and Amy
Jeffres was Gorelick's. Jeffres liked the paper and Gorelick gave the go-
ahead to begin the interagency task force.
b. Michael L. Aytes was an Assistant Commissioner and very supportive of
Berez. "He was a visionary and could see how helpful it would be to track
aliens student history from cradle to grave with the help of biometrics."
c. June. Berez put together an agenda for the task force meeting of two
weeks at hdqtrs. It was a top down assessment of the current STSC to
 determine if it was fixable and identified all the issues necessary to be
covered by a student system. Aytes provided Berez with 2 EDS tech
consultants who were really good. At this meeting, everyone's ideas were
taken. Berez was intent that the document produced be a full concensus
document. At end of week one, had the following concensus: the current
process was so broken that it was irretrievable. A new system was
needed, and the one mapped out became CIPRIS (Coordinated
Interagency Partnership Regulating International Students). The system
was to be wholly electronic, real time, data sharing with an automatic
check hi IBIS and would identify source of students funding, including the
bank and the originator of the funds. Each student would be assigned a
risk value and an intel analyst would conduct this analysis full time,
similar to a DIA national security unit. (Donna Hamilton was the DOS
rep, now retired.)
d. December. The CIPRIS report is completed and goes to DAG Gorelick.
9/11 personal The report gets Hill attention via Senator Simpson's staffer Radigam, a
Privacy former DOS consul general. Berez workedwith JoknRatigoni
•--[__ fr via Joyce Chang of Congressional Affairs (now deceased). In
considering revisions to student tracking system, Berez had to deal with
the issues of student fees and the Buckley law, a privacy law "protecting"
students. The task force had found 1000s of fraudulent I-20s, that
language schools especially were making money selling I-20s, and that
designated student officers at schools were corrupt.

1996. a, March. Chris Sales organizes a presentation to Commissioner

Meissner to present the interagency task force results. Berez made the
presentation. The Comm'r didn't like the enforcement nature of the
proposal, didn't like the intrusion on the schools or students. "Strong
concern that CIPRIS was too enforcement oriented." She especially didn't
like the biometrics of photo and fingerprint, and thought too intrusive. The
attendees, who were all supportive of the task force at that time b/c, as
Berez says, Sales was in favor of it, told Meissner that the DAG wanted an
answer. To which Comrn'r replied that she wanted more study and more
options. Persons in attendance: Mike Manuel, Chris Sale, George
Bohlinger, Bill Slattery, maybe Bob Bach.
b. July. Berez writes an option paper for Meissner. Sales tells Berez that
Comm'r sitting on it.
c. September 30. Section 641 of IIRIRA becomes law and requires the INS
to develop student tracking.
d. October 11. Meissner signs off on option recommendation no. 5, a pilot
project in Atlanta. Berez picked Atlanta because the city was already
familiar with high tech after a summer Olympics there; the port director
and district director of INS in Atlanta were very good and supportive; and
there were big schools like Duke, Clemson, Auburn, an all black college, 4
and 2 yr. colleges, a flight school (concern about piloting of drugs into
US), tech colleges, and exchange programs all in region. (Berez had
 wanted recommendation #5, but told not politically viable. This option
included a scanner at a POE. Had only recommended option no. 4)
Option #4 is now US Visit, with the smart card ofCIPRIS now the visa
card of US Visit. However, the technology was available technically and
financially in 96.
e. During this time, CIPRIS was competing against other INS projects for
resources and support.
1997. January 8. A federal register notice was approved by OMB for the pilot.
The task force was brought back at this time after the Comm'rs approval to
implement proposal of the summer. The only restriction OMB put on it
was only college age alien kids, no high school or lower. To this notice, 50
or 60 schools said they wanted to participate.
April. Berez convenes a mtg in Atlanta with the task force and all the players
in the pilot. Only needed about $3 mil per year at this point. Berez says Sale
the project's guardian angel, and whatever Berez needed he got.
June. Launched the pilot with the readers in the Atlanta airport and the Texas
Service Center and USIA (got readers too for scanning bar coded I-20s for I-
539 change of status applications). Tom Fisher was a great district director
and implemented the pilot in Atlanta. The budget went up to $5 mil, as
technical glitches needed straightening. EDS wasn't doing a good job and
replaced 3 project mgrs during this time thru IT INS. In '99, Berez permitted
to participate in selection and picked a former IBM VP, John Smith.
During 1997, PDD-42 mentions student tracking and Berez asked to
coordinate with Dan Cadman on the CT side of the project.

1998. January. Chris Sales leaves after being blamed for the failure of
Citizenship USA. (Was a PR disaster for the administration, as criminals
were getting citizenship.) The word out was "don't mess with the widow".
The reference was to Meissner who had recently lost her husband.
February. Mary Ann Wyrsch takes Sales' place as Deputy Commissioner.
March. By this time, CIPRIS pilot functionality was working and glitches
taken care of. The prototype card worked. The prototype was created via
dummy records, a card, and use in Atlanta. The prototype never made it out to
the embassies because the task force wasn't permitted to produce it. However,
on Feb. 2 Berez received a stop work order on the project. Sen. Kyi's office
via Kyi's judiciary subcommittee intervened and got funding restored. Such
interruptions in work became commonplace thereafter.
Paul Rosenberg was Wyrsch's special assistant, and didn't like CIPRIS
because he had a project of automating I-94s, a project that was tested in Philly
with USAir.
August. Berez feels ready to develop a national system, as the system,
scanning, database sharing and Texas Service Center issues had been worked
out). Berez believed that the system could've been up and running by January
'01. Berez is able to obtain a briefing with Meissner. Berez believes that
Meissner will love the project, as it has great potential to act as a template for
A files. In addition, the project was interatency task force and field tested, and
both DOE and DOS on board, as well as U of TX Austin, who was willing to
have CIPRIS use its system to develop the national beta test. "Action officers"
at DIA (Stephen French), CIA and FBI would have been recipients of CIPRIS
data. Berez was going to call the national program was to be called SEVIS,
the Student Exchange and Visitor Information System.
At the briefing, Berez was asked questions by Wyrsch and Meissner.
Many people were in the room, including Dan Cadman. Berez's impression at
the end of the meeting was that everything was okay and he had the go-ahead
to develop the national project. The prototype card worked, but then Berez not
permitted to replace it with an actual card. Nobody criticized the project.
Mike Hrinyak was there, as was Jackie Bednarz, who was supportive until the
political winds changed. Wyrsch said she wanted to learn more.
How the system would've worked:
• Alien seeks admittance to school.
• If alien accepted, then school submitted data on alien to INS via
SEVIS and SEVIS would've sent information to IBIS, the INS
lookout systems against data provided about individual,
including all family members of alien and alien's spouse, so if
anyone related to system came up with a hit, would alert DOS
that a full investigation would need be done. If a "bigger" hit,
DIA/FBI/CIA would be notified.
• An authorizing message would sent to the school, so the school
could print off receipt to send student either hard copy or
electronically, eliminating the 1-20, and the receipt would be
machine readable for hard copy with a confirmation number on it
for both electronic and hard copy. This information the student
uses to acquire a student visa overseas, and DOS would only
need to call up the confirmation number to adjudicate the visa.
"My philosophy was that the earlier a warning you could get, the
better."
• Once the student applied for a visa, the INS would have 30 days
to check the financial information submitted by the student on
his visa application. This would only happen if the student had a
prior hit in the system. Also if a hit, a full background, including
a 10 print, would be conducted prior to issuance and run v. that
country's criminal databases (only DOS has this access, not INS)
and Interpol, etc.
• System would then send a notice to school advising that a visa
was issued. The type of visa issued would be a visa not in a
passport, but a visa "smart card" that would be machine readable
at POE. Included in this card was photo and one right index
finger print, which the consular officer took. Would've been
able to interact with Ident and check FBI NCIC system if hit
situations.
• Once visa issued, SEVIS would be updated to include that visa
card issued. The card no. would have a master card number.
 • At the POE, the student arrives with his smart card and master
number. Inspector runs card through reader and can question
student or not. The inspector then does an electronic admission
record that runs v. master record and visa card becomes evidence
of status in US. (Could only verify biometric if pull into
secondary.) The entry of student triggers an automatic notice to
the school of the entry.
• The system then starts a clock and student must start his program
within 60 days of admittance. The system would've sought an
acknowledgement from school of enrollment. Would've been
connected to the registrar's database.
• If no acknowledgment from school, SEVIS says if don't tell us
where student is within 10 days, first a warning letter that in
violation and if adverse action, fines or no certification.
Meanwhile, INS interior enforcement would be notified of no
shows, and they'd prioritize them and warrant would be issued
for arrest for no show. That warrant puts the alien in NCIC
which enables local law enforcement to stop aliens.

1999. January.
a. The Wyrsch meeting doesn't happen until January, 4 months after the
request. Berez makes presentation to Wyrsch. In attendance are Jackie
Bednarz, Tom Cook, Paul Authors. Every question she had we had an
answer, so Berez thought things had gone fine.
b. During this time, "on high" was anti-enforcement. Greg Bednarz and
Dan Cadman can speak to that.
c. Berez said that rumor was that Wyrsch's alma mater had gotten to her.
NAFSA saw to blocking CIPRIS in anyway possible.
d. Afterwards Berez was queried as to how he rec'd authorization to do
CIPRIS and told by Wyrsch that should've gotten approval for it. Berez
responsded that he thought he done that in the briefing he'd provided her
and the Commissioner in 8/98.
e. During this time as well, Wyrsch created a "Policy Council" who did
official sign-offs on programming resourcing. This Council didn't
disapprove the smart card of CIPRIS, but deferred the national system and
said you can't have the card tested beyond the prototype in the pilot. This
instruction came down verbally.
February. Berez then goes to the general counsel's office to flesh out the
section 641 statutory requirements to determine if the fee could be collected
directly from the student or from the schools. Berez definitely didn't think it
should be an overseas operation, as that was highly complicated. Wyrsch
states that she wants schools 100% compliance in collecting fees b/c she
believed that statute required it and if schools failed, lost their certification.
This is the rule that Berez is forced to publish for comment in the CFR, and he
receives 5,000 comments back from schools decrying process.
 May. Berez at a. NAFSA conference with over 1000 attendees from schools
around the country. In front of a 1000 people, he tells them that CIPRIS is
inevitable so you better get on board, and said how much better this system is
for legitimate students and schools. He also says, "look, some day a foreign
student national will do something bad and then a national tracking system
will be dictated to you without your say." Berez, during the course of this
conference, has lunch with Marlene Johnson who heads the lobby for NAFSA
in Washington. Berez is trying to have a friendly conversation with Johnson
when Johnson says to him: "I wonder what would happen to CIPRIS if you
weren't leading it." Berez says that there were large schools that NAFSA
represented that had very large foreign student populations, such as U of
Michigan and Ohio State that had unhealthy foreign student operations (ie
weren't wholly complying with the law on I-20s) that really wanted CIPRIS
killed. However, other large schools with large foreign students populations
were behind the program, such as UCLA, Auburn, and Brigham Young.
August. Berez sets up internet based fee collection with the banks using an I-
906 using Mellon Bank's lock box and permitting the student to pay on the
Internet.
October. Bob Bach calls Berez's boss in and tells Cook that the decision has
been made to replace Berez now that going to a national program b/c Berez is
considered to be too controversial by NAFSA. Bach says Cook and Cook
tells Berez that Bach wanted berez out of CIPRIS no matter what. Berez was
told Wyrsch said: "It won't be the first time we haven't done something
mandated by law." Berez says he was only controversial internally at INS,
not externally amongst the task force. Bach represents to Cook that now pilot
will be taken to national development. Berez says INS then divided his job
into many parts, so fragmenting CIPRIS with unknowledgable people that it
couldn't go forward. The only piece of CIPRIS that Berez to retain was the
fee regulation. Cook found $3 mil and put a dumbed down CIPRIS on life
support behind Wyrsch's back.

Also in 1999:
• "Functional requirements" document that discussed perceived potential
threats of students coming to this country. This is where the country of origin
field comes into the student form b/c of concerns about ME terrorism, and
also because section 641 requires the identification of five state sponsors of
terrorism. Berez wanted to do more than statutorily required, as didn't want
to discriminate amongst aliens; figured it was silly to spend all this money on
development and only capture a small number of students, and that terrorists
aren't just from state sponsors j jofthe DIA had provided
input on how to target and mix and match data on individuals, and wanted
CIPRIS to be able to cull out Mideast aliens for analysis. Paul Rosenberg
dumped all over it.
......---""• Meeting at White House. Via Cadman's prior meeting with the CSG Group at
, the White House, Berez was to support Cadman on the presentation. But no
one had the detailed knowledge of the program, so Berez was verbally
9/11 Law
Enforcement
Privacy
 authorized to go make presentation by Wyrsch (via Cronin). Berez went and
did run through. Jackie bednarz went with Berez. Both Simon and dan
Benjamin liked it. Heard back the Dick Clarke responded via Tom Cook
that Clarke wanted more than F,M, and J visas covered and more proactive
analysis and data.

January 2001. Was to begin national deployment. Flight schools would've been
part of the deployment as well as vocational schools. Was to begin with a mass data
transfer of all schools with current students and run those names through NIIS and
identify those w/o departure records and recertify schools.

Post Sept. 11. Berez received many emails from supporters saying that now, for
sure, Berez would be put back in charge of the CIPRIS task force and the CIPRIS
would be taken off life support. But Mike Becraft, who had been COS under
Wyrsch and was now acting deputy commissioner under Ziglar, said there was no
way Berez would ever be involved again, as he'd gone outside the chain of command
and couldn't be trusted. Bill Yates had this conversation with Becraft.

If CIPRIS had been deployed on a national level by early 2000, would CIPRIS
have captured the following 9/11 hijacker information?

a. Atta, Hanjour and Alsehhi.

i. Would a pending 1-539 applications to change status from a B2 to
an M-l (Atta and Alsehhi) student be available to an immigration
inspector upon entry? yes
ii. Would a pending 1-539 applications to change status from an Fl to
an M-l (Atta and Alsehhi) student be available to an immigration
inspector upon entry? yes
iii. If yes, would the record indicate that the applicant was already
attending school pending the application's approval? yes
iv. Would that information require an automatic referral to secondary
inspection? yes
v. What would the legal result of attending school prior to
adjudication of the change of status application? Law was
unequivocal that if an alien leaves while an application is pending,
that application is abandoned and no entry is permitted.
vi. What was INS policy under such circumstances in 2000 and 2001?
Policy was to let in.
b. Hanjour.
i. Would historical records (this one of an F-l issued in Nov. 1997)
have been available in CIPRIS upon a December 2000 entry into
the US? no

Atta. Assuming that that flight school had been entered into the system, would've
caught his credit card information and learned he was being financed by a terrorist
financier. This would've happened b/c Atta's 1-539 was pending upon his last entry
9/11 Law Enforcement Sensitive

in July 2001, but Atta had already attended and completed flight school by this time,
but since the application for change of status was pending, would've captured his data
and had that available when referred to secondary inspection.

If CIPRIS had been in place prior to 9/11, (MB says it would've been in place by
early 2000), what information would it have been available to law enforcement
and intelligence agencies?!

If CIPRIS had been in place prior to 9/11, do you think it would have had an
effect on discouraging members of Al Qaeda from coming to the US to attend
flight training or language centers? yes

CIPRIS characteristics that would have been included in the nationally

deployed SEVIS program as developed by Berez's task force, but NOT
included in the current "dumbed down" version of SEVIS:
 10

9/11 Law Enforcement Sensitive

Berez work since 9/11.

FTTTF. Developed the data elements and the electronic all online flight students
seeking admittance. The school has to designate that they want the student, and ones
checked by flight school, the FTTTF runs v. risk assessment value.
Exceptions: pilots receiving inservice recerts and no pilot seeking to fly less than
5500 pounds is checked.

Developed national anti-fraud strategy for CIS. That the areas where fraud, wherever
a individual could obtain under false pretenses legitimate immigration docs is a national
security concern. Most virilant fraud is H-1B, by ginning up bogus resume, bogus DOL
papers, and INS has no method of determining truth b/c don't look at employer or alien,
just adjudicate on paperwork.
Solution that to develop ongoing benefit assessment that totally random. This
random sampling, where found fraud, look at characteristics/patterns in those case, to
determine factors that would require site visits or interviews.

Now. Reassigned F, M, J regs or any CIS policy interpretation of regs. for current SEVIS
operation.

Section 326 of the Patriot Act requires the alien's immigration information be verified.
Biometric would be helpful here....
 11

APPENDIX ONE
Questions for Morrie Berez

Topics: CIPRIS pre- 9/11 The following questions were covered during the course of
this interview.

1. Please describe the evolution of student tracking, including what the original
regulations on foreign students were and how that differed, if at all, from section
641 of IIRIRA?
2. What was CIPRIS and what was the mission of CIPRIS?
3. What was the relationship of CIPRIS to counterterrorism?
4. How did you first become involved in student tracking?
5. What was your position?
6. When appointed?
7. Who asked you to take the position?
8. What were your marching orders?
9. What was your impression of the commitment of management to CIPRIS when
you first took the job? How much did that commitment change over time?
10. How much discretion did you have in developing the components and timetable
for producing CIPRIS?
11. In discussing discretion in developing the program, could you explain some of the
early discussions on whether the program should only cover state sponsors of
terrorism or not? What was your position on that?
12. What were the key characteristics of CIPRIS?
13. What was the timetable for developing CIPRIS?
14. Were you able to stay within the timetable?
15. According to your timetable, when would CIPRIS have been nationally deployed?
The pilot project.
16. When was the pilot deployed? When was it deemed to have fulfilled its mandate?
17. What were the problems and successes with the pilot?
18. Did CIPRIS have enough resources to fulfill its mandate? What problems did you
encounter?
Please talk about the White House and Congress here.
19. Who supported CIPRIS and your work?
a. Within the INS
b. Outside the INS
20. Who do you find unhelpful?
a. Within the INS
b. Outside the INS
21. Did there come a point when the pilot was complete and you and the task force
felt ready to move on to a national deployment?
22. Who were the contractors on the project?
 12

23. Were the characteristics you sought to include, like biometric identity cards and
automatic checks of financial records, really doable from a technology
standpoint? From a financial standpoint?
24. How did the levying of the fee come about?
25. What ultimately happened to CIPRIS?
26. What happened to your position at CIPRIS?
27. Who made the decision to fragment CIPRIS?
28. Who, if you know, influenced that decision?
 13

APPENDIX TWO
Documents Entered into the Record 10/2/03

Law
• U.S. law mandating the creation of a foreign student tracking system,
P.L. 104-208, Section 641 (pages 162 (law) and 165 (appropriations)
of JKR hearing record)

Internal INS Documents (JKR in possession while in Senate employ)

• DO J/INS Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant (F-1 /F-2/M-1 /M-
2) Student
• 9.26.94: Memorandum to Jamie Gorelick (DAG DOJ) from Louis
Freeh (Director Office of Investigative Agency Policies) re improving
DOJ's law enforcement capabilities re aliens entry and departures
from the U.S.
• 1.01.95: Memorandum on Receipt of Final Report of the Task Force
on Foreign Student Controls to HQADN Michael Aytes to Chris Sale,
Deputy Commissioner through T.Alexander Aleinkoff, Exec Assoc.
Comm'r for Programs and through Louis Crocetti, Jr., Associate
Comm'r for Examinations
• 5.11.95: Executive Summary to DOJ DAG from Commissioner INS
re Immigration Controls on Foreign Students
• 9.26.95: Status Report on the Foreign Student Controls Task Force to
Amy D. Jeffress, Special Assistant to DAG from Chris Sale, Deputy
Commissioner INS (transmittal letter and report)
• 10.11.95: INS Commissioner Doris Meissner's Approval for Student
Registration Initiative with discussion of key elements
• 12.22.95: Memorandum on Formal Report of the Task Force on
Foreign Student Controls to Michael Aytes from Maurice Berez, Task
Force Coordinator through Yvonne Lafleur, Chief, Nonimmigrant
Branch HQADN
• 12.22.95: INS Final Report by the Task Force on Foreign Student
Controls "Controls Governing Foreign Students: and Schools That
Admit Them" (served as roadmap for CIPRIS)
• 5.13.96: Ltr from INS Adjudication Officer Rachel Figueroa-Colon to
INS Chief of Business and Trade Services Branch Yvonne LaFleur re
CIPRIS Task Force Leader Maurice Berez
• 9.30.96: Public Law 104-208, Section 641: Program to Collect
Information Relating to Nonimmigrant Foreign Students and Other
Exchange Program Recipients.
• 1.8.97: Regulation Notice, Request for volunteers to Participate in a
Foreign/Exchange Visitor Program.
• 9.97: Washington Institute for Near East Policy, "U.S. Issuing Visas
to Students from Terrorism-Supporting Countries in Middle East to
Study Weapons-Related Sciences
 14

• 9.26.97: www.ins.usdoi.gov/cipris/general.htm
• 2.98: President's budget and fact sheets on implementing the
President's Immigration Initiative
• 2.9.98: Email from Kenneth Kreutter to Mike Hatcher directing a stop-
work on CIPRIS due to funding cuts
• 2.19.98: Fax to Janice Kephart re "the impending death of a national
CIPRIS-student tracking system"
• 2.19.98: Ltr from Rep. Charles Schumer to Hon. Janet Reno re student
visas and implementation of CIPRIS
• 3.31.98: Ltr from Sen.s Jon Kyi and Rick Santorum to Comm'r Doris
Meissner re implementation of CIPRIS (p. 176 JKR hearing record)
• 7.16.98: Ltr from Allen Erenbaum, Director of Congressional
Relations, INS, to Sen. Jon Kyi re implementation of CIPRIS and
inviting staff for a demonstration.
• 8.7.98: Memo to the INS Policy Council from Michael Cronin, Acting
Associate commissioner, Programs re the use of the student /exchange
visitor card in the CIPRIS Pilot.
• 8.20.98: Ltr from Comm'r Meissner to Sen. Jon Kyi re
implementation of CIPRIS (p. 177 JKR hearing record)
• 8.21.98: CIPRIS briefing materials received by JKR at demonstration,
with notes
• 12.10.98: INS Memorandum on Coordinated Interagency partnership
regulating International Students (CIPRIS) for the Deputy
Commissioner from Maurice Berez, Project Lead through Executive
Associate Comm'r for Policy and Planning
• 2.5.99: DOS Memorandum Deputy Assistant Secretary for Visa
Services Nancy Sambaiew to CA/EX Frank Moses re CIPRIS
requesting DOS support in maintaining CIPRIS timetable with
signature of Moses approving
• 2.22.2000: Ltr from Sen. Spencer Abraham and 20 other Senators to
Doris Meissner re INS Student Tracking system (postpone levy of
fees)

Congressional documents
• 10.9.2001: U.S. House Memorandum from Keith Ausbrook and Brian
Zimmer, Senior Investigators for House Judiciary Committee to
Members, Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims re Subcommittee
Oversight Hearing on INS Information Technology
• 2.24.98: Relevant portions of Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on
Terrorism, Technology, and Government Information 1998 hearing
record: "Five Years After the World Trade Center: Foreign Terrorist
Operations in America"
• other relevant hearings/staff reports or memos

NonProfit Reports
 15

• Dec. '99: Washington Institute for Near East Policy "Tracking

Students from Terrorism-Supporting Middle-Eastern Countries: An
Update" by Benjamin Orbach

Articles
• 1.8.97: DOJ/INS "Request For Volunteers to Participate in a Foreign
Student/Exchange Visitor Program Pilot" [INS No. 1800-96]
• 3.9.98: U.S. News & World Report "American Colleges are
'Weapons U.' for Iraq; No one tracks thousands of students from
terrorism sponsoring countries" (mentions CIPRIS) by Douglas
Pasternak
• Summer 1997: International Educator "Trial Balloon or Trojan
Horse? For CIPRIS Pilot Schools the Future Is Now" by Kyna Rubin
• 9.19.97: Chronicle of Higher Education "A Close Watch on Foreign
Students: U.S. Tests a New System That Critics Call Orwellian" by
Amy Rubin
Thomas H. Kean September 24, 2003
CHAIR

Lee H. Hamilton
VICE CHAIR The Honorable Mary Ann Wyrsch
Deputy High Commissioner
Richard Ben-Veniste
United Nations High Commission on Refugees
Max Cleland Case Postale 2500
CH-1211 Geneve 2 Depot
Frederick F. Fielding
Suisse
Jamie S. Gorelick
Dear Ms. Wyrsch:
Slade Gorton

John F. Lehman
The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States is
directed by statute to investigate the facts and circumstances surrounding the
Timothy J. Roemer September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including the nation's preparedness for,
James R. Thompson
and immediate response to, those attacks, as well as to evaluate the lessons
learned from those attacks and to make recommendations for preventing future
attacks. As part of its investigation, the Commission hereby requests to
Philip D. Zelikow
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
interview you on issues relating to your positions as INS Deputy Commissioner
and Acting Commissioner, as well as your current position as it relates to U.S.
policy on refugees. The Commission anticipates that classified information may
be discussed at this interview. We would also like to discuss your views on the
future of immigration and border control policy since September 11 to combat
terrorism.

Janice Kephart-Roberts, a member of the Commission's professional staff, will

make the arrangements for your interview. The Commission would like to
conduct your interview upon your next return to the United States during the
week of October 6 in New York or Washington, D.C., whichever location is
more convenient for you. At least two members of the Commission's staff will
attend your interview, and the general policy of the Commission is to tape
record interviews. Please call Joanne Accolla at 202.401.1774 as soon as
possible to discuss the time and location of your interview. Please call Janice
Kephart-Roberts at 202.401.1705 to raise any other questions you may have.

Thank you very much in advance for your time and for your cooperation with
the Commission and its staff in this important matter.

Yours sincerely,

Philip Zelikow 301 7 lh Street SW, Room 5125

Executive Director Washington, DC 20407
T 202.331.4060 F 202.296.5545
www.9-11 commission.gov
U.S. Department of Justice
Immigration and Naturalization Service

' 4tf i'lM/r

of towtd of

ment

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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE

M A R C H 2 0 0 1

WYRSCH DEPARTS
FOR U.N. POST;;}
ROONEY COMES
ON BOARD A%.v".' i ,},, «,',$&'!. -

ACTING INS i f f
c oM M i s s i
) Rooncy
Debits for U.N. Post •• Arrwes from the Executive
, s Office of Imnugiatwm Review

Berks Family Shelter in From New York to Anchorage, LIFELines, a Web-accessed service
Pennsylvania is designed to provide INS district offices rolled out devised by the Career Sustainment
safe and stable housing for families special citizenship ceremonies for Program for INS staff.
placed in INS custody. children in February.

VOLUME 23, NUMBER 3 WWW.INS.USDOJ.GOV

 • .'-fi^AV^19^^*1^*/ " ' £ . - • - •
TO: THRU: SUSPENSE DATE:

Regional Directors N/A N/A

SUBJECT:

Revision of State Department's Automated TIPOFF System —

Memorandum of Understanding (MOU)
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

1. Purpose. To provide a copy of the final version of the revised MOU, with an explanation of its
effect, and to request that it be widely distributed with field officer personnel.

2. Discussion. The revised MOU expands TIPOFF system input from exclusively terrorists, to
include organized crime figures.

3. Recommendation. Approve the memorandum. Upon signature, it will be distributed by the action
office.

CONCURRENCES*

NAME OFFICE SIGNATURE DATE COMMENTS

Louis Nardi ENF/INV

OPS
Kenneth Elwood DEAC/ENF
OPS
Michael Pearson EAC
OPS

ACTION OFFICER(S)/OFFICE/EXTENSION: DATE:

Dan Cadman, OPS/ENF/NSU 202-305-1731 V ^ 12 MAR 99

' On approval and signature, please return to action officer for reproduction and distribution

C:\ANTITERR\TIP-RD.RTE
 U.S. Department of Justice
Immigration and Naturalization Service

HQOPS50/5.11-P

Office of the Executive Associate Commissioner 425 I Street NW

Washington, DC 20536

MEMORANDUM FOR REGIONAL DIRECTORS

FROM: Michael A. Pearson

Executive Associate Commissioner,
Office of Field Operations

SUBJECT: Revised Memorandum of Understanding -

Department of State Automated TIPOFF System

Attached for your information and review, you will find a copy of a recently revised
memorandum of understanding (MOU) between the Department of State (DOS), the U.S. Customs
Service (USCS), and the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS).

This MOU relates to DOS's automated TIPOFF system. That system is the intragovernmental
repository for terrorist information that feeds the DOS consular lookout system* CLASS; the USCS
lookout system, TECS II; and the INS lookout system, NAILS.

The MOU revises the language of a previous version to incorporate updated practices and
procedures. More importantly, it expands the TIPOFF system beyond terrorism, and authorizes the
entry of data relating to organized crime suspects, initially from territories of the former Soviet
Union, and internationally thereafter. The language is the result of negotiations and discussions
among and between the signatory agencies, and those intelligence agencies of the Federal
Government that provide the predicating data to the Department of State.

The changes will be transparent to users of TIPOFF data - primarily, Immigration Inspectors at
ports of entry throughout the United States. They will continue to access it via the NAILS system,
and on-line screens will continue to provide users with instructions and points of contact in the
event of a hit.

Please distribute this memorandum and the MOU as widely as possible with district, sector,
suboffice and port of entry managers within your respective areas of jurisdiction.

Attachment
 Page 1 of 1

Joanne Accolla

From: Joanne Accolla Oaccolla@9-11commission.gov]

Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:57 AM
To: 'cole@unhcr.ch1
Cc: Team5@9-11commission.gov1
Subject: Meeting on October 10 @ 2 p.m. in New York City

Thank you for your voice mail message today confirming Ms. Wyrsch's interview on October 10 at 2:00 p.m.
at our New York office. Listed below is the address of our New York office and contact telephone numbers:

26 Federal Plaza
Suite 13-100
New York, NY 10278
212.264.1505
Susan Ginsburg's cell phone #: 202.550.0025
Janice Kephart-Roberts' cell phone #: 202.236.7319

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you again for your assistance.
Joanne M. Accolla
Staff Assistant
National Commission on Terrorist
Attacks Upon the United States
202.401.1774
jaccolla@9-11commission.gov

9/29/2003
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http://www.unhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/contact 9/15/2003
Joanne Accolla
From: Beverley Jane Cole [COLE@unhcr.ch]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 2:12 AM
To: jaccolla@9-11commission.gov
Subject: Re: Beverly - we would like to fax the from the 9-11 Commission to Ms. Wyrsch - can you
please give me y

Joanne - your message was in the subject line and didn't finish but I guess you wanted the
fax number! Which is: +41 22 739 73 47. Regards, Beverley.

»> "Joanne Accolla" <jaccolla@9-llcommission.gov> 24/09/03 21:02:17 >»

Joanne M. Accolla

Staff Assistant

National Commission on Terrorist

Attacks Upon the United States

202 .401.1774

jaccolla@9-llcommission.gov
Joanne Accolla

From: Janice Kephart-Roberts Okephart-roberts@9-11commission.gov]

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:54 AM
To: ckojm@9-11commission.gov
Cc: sdunne@9-1 1commission.gov; team5@9-1 1commission.gov
Subject: RE: Fwd: Interview Requests - Mary Ann Wyrsch

Chris,

Issue resolved, we think, as to Ms. Wyrsch, as we were told this morning she will be back
in NYC the week of Oct. 6. We are awaiting her schedule and whether we need to go to NYC
(Susan and I) or she will come to B.C.

Janice

----- Original Message -----

From: ckojm@9-llcommission.gov [mailto : ckojm@9-llcommission.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:49 AM
To: sdunne@9-llcommission.gov
Cc : jkephart-roberts@9-llcommission.gov
Subject: Re: Fwd: Interview Requests - Mary Ann Wyrsch

Steve -- I have discussed w/ Janice, re: telephone conf . call since Wyrsch will
not be back in the States any time soon, earliest in Nov. Janice talked about a
VTC, but I told her I would want to see cost figures and didn't, from my
experience, see much added value from a VTC (although mine have been
pictorially inferior secure VTCs) .

I guess its OK to state the request as is, understanding that all the details
as noted above need to be worked out .

Quoting "" <sdunne@9-llcommission.gov> :

> for your review

>
> ----- Forwarded message from Joanne Accolla
> <jaccolla@9-llcommission.gov>
> -----
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:03:41 -0400
> From: Joanne Accolla <jaccolla@9-llcommission.gov>
> Reply-To: Joanne Accolla <jaccolla@9-llcommission.gov>
> Subject: Interview Requests - Mary Ann Wyrsch
> To: "" <sdunne@9-llcommission.gov>
>
> Attached for your approval . Thanks .

> Joanne M. Accolla

>
> Staff Assistant
>
> National Commission on Terrorist
>
> Attacks Upon the United States
>
> 202.401.1774
>
> jaccolla@9-llcommission.gov
UNHCR Page 1 of2

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Announcing the appointment Wednesday, High
Commissioner Ruud Lubbers said Ms. Wyrsch 13 Sep 2003 | Africa News
Services
brings to UNHCR "very broad and rich management U.S. contributes additional
Click here experience as a particularly valuable asset." Mr. $28.3 million to UNHCR
to donate 25 Aug 2003 | AFP English Wire
Lubbers, who took over as High Commissioner on
January 1, said Secretary-General Kofi Annan fully
supported the choice of Ms. Wyrsch, who assumes US blocks UN resolution on
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5 Aug 2003 | AFP English Wire
Ms. Wyrsch, who was born in Kansas City, is a Cuban-American leaders
outraged by repatriation of
career U.S. government employee. She was named Cubans
Deputy Commissioner of the Immigration and 4 Aug 2003 | The Associated
Naturalization Service (INS) in March 1998 and has Press
served as the acting INS Commissioner since last USA: More than 50 Cuban
migrants released in Florida, 19
November, following the resignation of Ms. Doris others detained
Meissner. Ms. Wyrsch managed the day-to-day 28 Jul 2003 | Financial Times
operations of more than 30,000 INS employees Washington to relaunch Afghan
reconstruction
worldwide. 25 Jul 2003 | New York Times
Haitians are held in U.S. despite
Mr. Lubbers said Ms. Wyrsch's specific grant of asylum
responsibilities will include the function of 21 Jul 2003 | AFP English Wire
US defends return of Cuban
controller; responsibility for information systems boat hijackers as anti-Castro
and technology; management of human and lawmakers protest
financial resources; and the supervision of 17 Jul 2003 | Itar-Tass
communication and information. She will also Armenia denies comment on
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represent the High Commissioner whenever to US
necessary.

Ms. Wyrsch holds a Master of Arts Degree from

Georgetown University as well as an MA in Public
Administration from the Kennedy School of
Government at Harvard University. She received
her BA degree from Webster College in St. Louis in
1965.

She began her government career in the Office of

Economic Opportunity and later joined the
Department of Labor, where she served in several
senior positions prior to joining the INS. Those
posts at the Department of Labor included director
of budget; director of the Unemployment Insurance
Service; and chief of operations for the

http://www.unhcr.chycgi-bin/texis/vtx/home/+3wwBmEevEudwwww3wwwwwwwhFqnNObItFqnDni5AFq... 9/15/2003
September 16, 2003

Deputy High Commissioner Mary Ann Wyrsch

United Nations High Commission on Refugees
Case Postale 2500
CH-1211 Geneve 2 Depot
Suisse
wyrsch@unhcr.ch

Dear Ms. Wyrsch:

The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States is

directed by statute to investigate the facts and circumstances surrounding the
September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including the nation's preparedness for,
and immediate response to, those attacks, as well as to evaluate the lessons
learned from those attacks and to make recommendations for preventing future
attacks. As part of its investigation, the Commission hereby requests to
interview you on issues relating to your positions as INS Deputy Commissioner
and Acting Commissioner, as well as your current position as it relates to U.S.
policy on refugees. The Commission anticipates that classified information may
be discussed at this interview. We would also like to discuss your views on the
future of immigration and border security.

Janice Kephart-Roberts, a member of the Commission's professional staff, will

make the arrangements for your interview. The Commission would like to
conduct your interview in November 2003, or upon your next return to
Washington, D.C., whichever date is earlier in time. At least two members of
the Commission's staff will attend your interview, and the general policy of the
Commission is to tape record interviews. Please call Joanne Accolla at
202.401.1774 as soon as possible to discuss the time and location of your
interview. Please call Janice Kephart-Roberts at 202.401.1705 to raise any
other questions you may have.

Thank you very much in advance for your time and for your cooperation with
the Commission and its staff in this important matter.
Yours sincerely,

Philip Zelikow
Executive Director
 OCT. 10.2003 9:37AM 9-11 COMMISSION ). 0904

%UNiTe°'

Thomas H. Kean FAX COVER SHEET

CHAIR

Lcc M. Hamilton

VICE CHAIR To: Janice Kephart-Roberts

Richard Bcn-Veniscc
Fax#: 212.264.1595

From: Joanne -202.401. 1774

Max Clcland
Date: October 10, 2003

Fred F- Fielding Number of Pages (including cover sheet): ^/

Jamie S. Gorelick

Slade Goiton

John Lehman

Timothy J, Rocmcr

James R, Thompson

PhiKp D- Zelikow
C.XECUTIVE D/R.ECTOH

TEL (202) 331-4060

FAX (202) 296-5545
hnp:/ /ww>».9-t 1 commission.gov
OCT. 10. 2003 9:37AM 9-11 COMMISSION NO. 0904 P, 2

QUESTIONS
GREG BEDNARZ AND JACK SHAW
OCOTBER 9,2003

Background of each.

Areas to discuss.

Roles and responsibilities via organizational charts.

Understand the difference b/w the field and hdqtrs and who got what information.

Role of theNSU Unit.

Role of intelligence.

Role of the Lookout Unit.

Role of counsel's office in special interest cases.

Headquarters Operations Center.

Headuarters Intelligence Division.

Policy priorities of the '90s.

What were they and how did these priorities affect other resources?

What budget resources ever went to CT?

Response to CT events of the 1990s. Subsequent to the events discussed below, were
any analyses, strategies, or resource allocations put aside or sought?

How did INS respond to WTC '93?

To PDD-39 in '95?

The conspiracy to bomb NYC landmarks in '95?

The Brooklyn Bomb Plot of '97?

To the Africa bombings of '98?

OCT, 10. 2 0 0 3 9:37AM 9-11 COMMISSION NO. 0 9 0 4 P. 3

To Ressam and the millennium plot in late 1999?

At what point did the INS become aware that CT was within the jurisdiction of
the INS and a necessary function of the INS?

Counterterrorism policy.

a. Within INS

Who was tasked with CT policy

Who was tasked with CT operations,

To what extent did hdqtrs know of CT operations ongoing?

Who ever briefed the commissioner on CT policy, programs or operations?

Were you aware of UBL as a threat? Did anyone see UBL as a threat and that the
INS had a role to play on the borders and in internal enforcement b/c of INS exclusive
Title 8 authority?

b. Outside INS

Who did Commissioner and Deputy answer to on a day to day basis?

Was DOT supportive of INS in CT? Ever discuss CT with INS?

Any known contact with Dick Clarke or the NSC on any matters?

Any interest by Congress hi CT?

Any interest of FBI other than involvement in JTTFs and FBI Hdqtrs detailees?

The CIA? DIA?

OCT. 10. 2003 9:37AM 9-11 COMMISSION NO. 0904 P, 4

Did the detailees at CIA or FBI ever report back to Meissner or Sales or Wyrsch
or Rooney or Ziglar?
OCT. 10. 2003 9:37AM 9-11 COMMISSION N0. 0904 P. 5

January 26-27, 2004: BORDERS, TRANSPORTATION, AND MANAGING RISK

1. Watchlists and visas;

Mary Ryan, Gofer Black, Dale Watson
Maura Harty, John Brennan, Mike Resnick

2. Immigration inspections and law enforcement:

Doris Meissner, James Ziglar

3. Border and transportation security.

Asa Hutchinson

4. Border security:
Marc Grossman, Paul McHale, Ed Eberhart, Richard C. Bonner

5. Aviation security:
Jane Garvey, James M. Loy

6. Risk management:
Tom Ridge
UNHCR Page 1 of 1

You are in: News

Basic facts
Today's date: Monday, 15 September 2003

Briefing Notes Mary Ann Wyrsch |

Deputy High Commissioner ends West EH Restrict to News
Africa trip
> Advanced Search Options
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This is a summary of what was said by UNHCR spokesperson Kris
Janowski - to whom quoted text may be attributed - at the press > Search
briefing, on 24 January 2003, at the Palais des Nations in Geneva.

Deputy High Commissioner Mary Ann Wyrsch today

(Friday) visited 183 predominantly Liberian Related stories:
refugees, including 73 children, who have been 28 Jan 2003 | UNHCR Briefing
living in a collective centre in Abidjan since Notes
Click here September, when their homes in the city's West Africa: Deputy High
Commissioner to give press
to donate shantytowns were razed by Ivorian security forces. briefing tomorrow
23 Jan 2003 | Agence France
Ms. Wyrsch told the refugees she was concerned Presse
about their safety and the general situation in Cote UNHCR official appeals for aid to
tackle with Ivory Coast refugees
d'lvoire. She also reiterated a call for refugees to 21 Jan 2003 | UNHCR Briefing
stay out of the conflict and top resist attempts to Notes
recruit them. There have been reports of West Africa: Deputy High
Commissioner in Sierra Leone
recruitment of Liberian refugees by the warring
21 Jan 2003 | UNHCR News
parties, particularly in western regions of the Stories
country where there has been fighting since mid- More funds and goodwill needed
November. Later today, Ms. Wyrsch was scheduled in volatile West Africa, says top
UNHCR official
to meet with Cote d'lvoire's foreign minister, as
well as members of the diplomatic corps,
humanitarian community representatives and
UNHCR staff, before wrapping up her 11-day tour
of West Africa.

On Thursday, she also met with the First Lady,

Mme. Simone Gbagbo. Earlier in the day, Ms.
Wyrsch visited the VOA camp for Sierra Leonean
refugees, near Monrovia and encouraged them to
go home. She mentioned the upbeat spirit she had
witnessed among the returnees in the Kailahun
district, in eastern Sierra Leone, which she visited
on Monday. UNHCR recently started promoting
return to Sierra Leone as part of a strategy to find
solutions for an estimated 100,000 Sierra Leoneans
still refugees in the region. An estimated 17,500
Sierra Leonean refugees remain in Liberia.

The Deputy High Commissioner returns to Geneva

on Sunday.

Story date: 24 Jan 2003

Briefing Notes
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http://www.unhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/hom 9/15/2003
UNHCR Page 1 of6

You are in: Administration

Basic tacta
Today's date: Monday, 15 September 2003 [£t-f,i<-l.

Protecting refugees High Commissioner's Statements Mary Ann Wyrsch

Donors/Partner* Address by Mary Ann Wyrsch, United I I Restrict to
Publican ona Nations Deputy High Commissioner Administration
for Refugees, to the graduates of Advanced Search Options
IteMMreh/Evaliution
EiecuUve Committee
Webster University at the Search Tips
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Admlnfetritton
Commencement ceremony
Special event*
How you can help Geneva, 11 May 2001

Director-General Spencer, members of the Faculty,

graduands, ladies and gentlemen,
**
«* *- f
fr
To be able to have contact with Webster University
here in Geneva is particularly pleasing for me given
my own links to this institution via the original St.
Louis campus. To be invited on this occasion to be
the Commencement Speaker and to receive a
Distinguished Alumna Award is a privilege for which
I am deeply grateful.

I come to this podium both as a former graduate,

and because of my present work as an
international civil servant. The time between these
two events has been an odyssey that has taken me
from very memorable and enriching years in St.
Louis, Missouri, to this internationally diverse
campus on the shores of Lake Geneva, where
others are preparing for similar journeys. I would
like to use this occasion to pay tribute to the
institution which prepared me - in and outside the
lecture room - for the commencement of my
journey through life. I am thrilled to be a witness
and participate in a commencement ceremony that
will launch so many journeys from Webster's
Geneva campus.

Today, many of you have come to a significant

point in your life's journey. Whether you are
completing your first advanced degrees, or have
completed Masters' work that provides you with
additional credentials and skills, you have come to
a point from which there will begin new
experiences and challenges.

There are many precepts and platitudes that will be

shared by commencement speakers all over the
world as new sets of graduates participate in
ceremonies such as this. I am reminded, as I stand
here with you, of some cautionary words from the
American writer, John Steinbeck, who once wrote,
"No one wants advice, only corroboration!". So,

http://www.imhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home/+9ww^ 9/15/2003
UNHCR Page 1 of 7

You are in: Executive Committee

Bwlctect*
Today's date: Monday, 15 September 2003

Protecting refugees Standing Committee Mary Ann Wyrsch ]

Donors/Partner* Opening remarks by Ms. Mary Ann I I Restrict to Executive
Wyrsch, Deputy United Nations High Committee
Commissioner for Refugees, at the » Advanced Search Options
Executive Committee
meeting of the Standing Committee, 5 » Search Tips
t Search
AdmlnUlraUon
March 2002
Spoctal avents
(no doc.symbol)
How you can help
Mr. Chairman,
Excellencies,
Distinguished delegates,
Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is a privilege and a pleasure to welcome you, and

to extend to you the greetings of the High
Commissioner on the occasion of the opening of
this Standing Committee meeting - the first in the
new year of 2002.

We meet at a time when the repercussions of 9/11

continue to influence the global political, economic
and social environment; when multi-lateral
approaches to global problems appear to be under
challenge and when the global economy still suffers
from recession and stagnancy. In this regard, this
weekend's vote in Switzerland to join the United
Nations has been extremely heartening.

The work of UNHCR - as with all humanitarian

action - is inevitably framed by global trends. While
there can be no compromise on our humanitarian
objectives, our resources and our manoeuvrability
for action are inevitably affected by the vicissitudes
of international developments. And so, as we
rejoice in the international recognition that the UN
has received through the award of the Centennial
Nobel Peace Prize, we also increase our resolve to
continue our work for the protection of all
individuals uprooted by conflict.

The Standing Committee meetings provide us with

a welcome opportunity to demonstrate our
accountability to the international community and
to be transparent in the approaches we have
adopted in our work. UNHCR is making its own
contribution to fulfilling not only our mandate but
also the priorities of the U.N.Secretary-General's
second term of office. We are committed to
working more cohesively with our partners in the
UN system and with governments and civil society

http://www.unhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home/+fwwBme-YUPsw\vwwnwwwwwwwhFqhOkgZTtFqnnLnqA..^ 9/15/2003
3fugee-rights@hrea.org - Secondary education for refugees cannot be ignored, say experts Page 1 of 2

Secondary education for refugees cannot

be ignored, say experts

• Subject: [refugee-rights] Secondary education for refugees cannot be ignored, say

experts
• From: owner-hr-headlines@hrea.org
• Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:28:06 GMT
• To: refugee-rights@hrea.org

GENEVA, September 19 (UNHCR) - Lamenting the lack of adequate post-primary

schooling for refugees, UN refugee agency chief Ruud Lubbers has called for
more efforts to bridge the gap between emergency and development aid to
ensure education for more than 1.5 million refugees of secondary school age.

"We must overcome the gap between emergency and development aid," said
Lubbers on Wednesday, in a speech delivered on his behalf by the Deputy UN.'
High Commissioner for Refugees, Mary Anne Wyrsch, at the opening of a
symposium in Geneva on post-primary education for refugees. "At present
post-primary education for refugees is a casualty of this gap. We must find
a solution for this."

In the two-day symposium organised by the Refugee Education Trust (RET),

more than 80 education specialists from 18 different countries met to
discuss ways of expanding secondary schooling for more than 1.5 million
teenage refugees. RET was set up in May 2001 by former UNHCR chief Sadako
Ogata to improve post-primary education for refugees as a legacy of the
refugee agency's 50th anniversary.

According to RET, some 50,000 teenage refugees are in secondary school - a

mere three per cent of the 1.5 million refugees of secondary school-going age.

"We know that education gives refugees self-esteem and dignity, and the
chance to solve their own problems, defend their rights and become
self-reliant school," noted Lubbers in his statement. "But because of
limited funding and competing needs, UNHCR offices often find themselves
unable to dedicate adequate funds to education."

This year, the UN refugee agency has set aside $38 million for education.
But most of its efforts and resources go to primary education.

In a written message to participants of the symposium, Ogata, Founding

President of RET, said that she was saddened by the fact that UNHCR had too
little funds to guarantee secondary education for many refugees. At the
same time, she appreciated the need for refugees to continue their
education beyond primary level.

"During my time as UN High Commissioner for Refugees, I visited many

refugee camps all over the world," said the brief message from Ogata. "I
could see that the refugees themselves placed a very high value on

http://www.hrea.org/lists/refugee-rights/markup/msgOO 156.html 9/4/2003

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