INHISOWNWORDS:FORMERUSARMYMILITARYINTELLIGENCEOFFICERNOWWHISTLEBLOWER FRANKGREGORYFORDSPEAKSTOTHEWEAPONSOFMASSDESTRUCTIONSHIPPEDFROMIRAQTOA STORAGEDEPOTEIGHTMILESOUTSIDEOFDAMASCUS,SYRIA FromFrankGregoryFordsComplaintfiledon14September2012Case2:12at01259inFRANK GREGORYFORDvsUNITEDSTATESOFAMERICAetal In2003Iwascredentialedasacounterintelligencenoncommissionedofficerassignedto Detachment1,CompanyA,223MilitaryIntelligenceBattalionoftheCaliforniaNationalGuard, undertheactivedutycommandofthe205thMilitaryIntelligenceBrigadecommandedbyCOL. ThomasPapas.IamalsoaqualifiedNavyCorpsmanandArmyMedic. FordwassubsequentlydischargedunderPapascommandafterhefiledchargesoftortureonAbu Ghraibprisonmilitarypersonnelandcommand.

HeremainedamemberoftheIndividualReadyReserve untilJune28,2011 PlaintiffFORDisinformedandbelievesthatanyapplicablestatuteoflimitationdefenseis waivedbydefendants,andeachofthem,becauseinJulyof2003plaintiffFORDwasinthe OfficeoftheAdjutantGeneral,CaliforniaArmyNationalGuard,Sacramento,Californiawhenhe, FORD,wasorderedbyLTCDanathathe,FORD,notinstitutecivilactionagainsttheCalifornia ArmyNationalGuard,oranyofitsofficersregardingthestatedirectedtortureprogram(SDTP) underwayatAbuGhraibprisoninIraq.FORDwastoldbyhissuperiorofficerthatthereasons forFORDtostayquietandtosuppresstheinformationhehadwasthatitwoulddamagethe wareffortandjeopardizethelivesofUnitedStatespersonnelinIraq.FORDwasremindedthat hehadasecurityclearanceandthathecouldbeprosecutedforleakingclassifiedinformation. Furthermore,LTC.DANAtoldFORDthatthereleaseofFORDSinformationwoulddamage ongoingintelligenceoperationsandthathe,FORD,mustwaituntilallUnitedStatesmilitary personnelwereoutofIraq.PlaintiffFORDunderstoodthistobealawfulorder.PlaintiffFORD remainedamemberoftheIndividualReadyReserveuntilJune28,2011andsubjecttothe UniformCodeofMilitaryJustice. PlaintiffFORDhasbeendesignatedasavictimofwarcrimesandoftorturebythegovernments officialexpertonwarcrimesandtorture. http://cryptome.org/2013/06/coppergreen/coppergreen08.pdf Mr.FordisreportinghiseyewitnessaccountoffindingVX/GFweaponsofmassdestructionwhile servinginBalad,Iraq.Additionally,FordisreportinghiseyewitnessaccountofseeingtheBillofLading oftheseweaponsofmassdestructionshippedfromFt.RuckerAlabamabytheCarlyleGrouptoIraq. Finally,FordisreportinghiseyewitnessaccountofseeingshipmentdocumentsofIraqsweaponsof massdestructiontoastoragedepoteightmilesSouthofDamascus,Syria. 3September2013InterviewofFrankGregoryFordbyClydeLewisofGroundZeroRadio (https://soundcloud.com/groundzeromedia)

Timestartsat43:11 Lewis:WhatIwanttohaveyoudo,IhavelookedoverthecourtdocumentsandIvelookedoverallthe thingsaboutyouthatIcan.Iwantyoutotalkaboutyourbackgroundfirstofallasaformerintelligence agentleadinguptothepointofyourunningintohotwaterwithourgovernment.Sopleasegiveusyour background. Ford:Thatgoesback38years,andmyinitialjobinthemilitarywasasecuritymemberforPresident Nixonforthoseofyoulisteningwhocanrememberhim.ThenIwentontoactuallygogetaneducation andIamatrainededucatedarcheologist,anthropologistandthenIwentonintomedicinewhereI becameanaturopathicphysicianandamedicaldoctor.Iwasanaturaltogointotheintelligencefield andIwentin,IwasactuallyrecruitedbytheArmy,initially,about1982.Andmyfirstjobwasasa SpecialistinElectronicIntelligenceasinNSAkindofintelligence;eavesdroppingoneverybody,jamming signalsanddoingthingslikethat,highlytechnicalissueslikethat.Alloftheseskillstheywereactually educatedschoolsenseskills.Iwenttospecialtyschoolsforeverysingleone.Thenmynextjobwas IntelligenceAnalyst,whichbasicallymeansgiventhecapabilitiestopulllittlethreadsinlittlepiecesand putthemtogetherintoawholepicture.Thenmythirdspecialtyintheintelligencefieldwaswhats calledHumanIntelligenceorHUMITandthatisthebigplayerinallofthis.Allofthisissueofwarand nowthattheUSishavingtodealwithterrorismitsallgonebacktotheguysintrenchcoats.Although, wedidntweartrenchcoatsthatoftenbutthatsthesituation.Ivehadassignmentsallovertheworld. AnywherefromCentralAmericatoEuropetheFarEasttheMiddleEastandsowhenIraqrolledaround, IhadjustcomebackfromArizona.IhadgonetoaschoolinArizonaandthatswherethiswholemystery started.ThiswholeintriguingbusinessstartedwithIraq Letmesee,howcanIputit?Fourteenmonthsbefore911wewereallinaclassinaclassroomandthe classleadercameinandsaidOkeverybodyshutupandsitdown.Well,wewerealladults.Wednever hadanybodyspeaktouslikethisbeforeandhesaidIvegottotalktoyouandIwantyouall[to]listen veryintentlybecausethiscouldbethelastmissionthatweretalkingaboutthatcouldbeinyourlife, alright.Itcouldtakeyourlifethismissionthatyoureallgonnabehaving. Okay.Wesatdown;listened.Andheverycarefullyexplainedthattherewere18monthsleft.Thata terroristattackwasfullyexpected.TherewasagroupthatwastrackingtheterroristscalledAble DangerokthatsAbleDanger.ItwasbeingrunbyaColTonySchaeffer,AnthonySchaeffer,whichIwas absolutelystartledtoseetheothereveningasaTVcommentatorforFoxnews. Wewereinformedthatwithinthenext18months,theydidnthaveanexactdatethough,thiswasJuly of2000thattherewouldbeanattack,aterroristattackontheUnitedStatesofAmericaandthetwo groupsthatwerebeingtrackedwereAlQueda,AlQuedaorganizationsbeingledbybinLaden.Okay great,weallknewwhobinLadenwas.WedallheardofAlQueda.TheinstructorsaidLookwecannot operateasintelligenceagentsinsidetheUnitedStatesbutwehavetooperateentirelyoutofthe continentalUS.Soyouwillbetrackingtheseterrorists.Alright.Ofcourse,nobodysaidthatallofthe terroristswouldbeincineratedon911.Atleastwethinktheydid.

SomebodyraisedtheirhandandsaidWelllook,domesticterrorismisnotourforteandtheinstructor saidLook,understandthisthattheFBIhasbeenentirelybriefedonthisattack.Theyknowallthereisto knowaboutthisattack.SomebodyelseraisedtheirhandandaskedWhereisthisgoingtobe?What aretheygoingtoattack?AndtheInstructorsaidthisisfromAbelDanger,theyare,theseterroristsare nowtakingflyinglessonsinFloridaandArizonaandtheyarelearninghowtoflyairliners.Nowwe suspectthattheyaregoingtohijackairliners,passengerplanes,andflythemintofirstofalltheWorld TradeCenterinNewYorkandthenselectthatwastheexactwordheusedselecttargetsaroundthe WashingtonDCarea.SomebodysaidWell,whyaretheygoingbacktoattacktheWorldTradeCenter building?AndtheanswerwasTheywerefinishingupbusiness.Theyhadpreviouslyattackedthe buildinganddidnotbringitdownandsotheyweregoingtofinishbusinessup.Andtheyweregoingto crashtheirairplanesintothebuildings. Sowewereinformedto,wewereinformedtogohomegetourwillsinordergetourfamilyaffairsin orderandplanon,overthenext18months,pursuingtheseterrorists,andlikeIsay,thiswasactually14 monthsbeforetheeventitselfhappened. Onthedaythattheeventhappened,intheintelligencebusinessyougetalotofintelligencethatnever happens.Itsjustthenatureofthebeast.PeoplethinkthatitsallJamesBondstuff.Somebodytellsyou somethingyougothereandtheresabadguywaitingforyouandwhattheydontshowyouinJames Bondisthehoursandhoursofreportwritingandtheyearsandyearsoftrainingthatittakestogetto thatposition. On911,911,thatswhentheattackshit.Iwas,IwasactuallyheadedtomyintelligenceunitandIgota callthatsaidturnontheTVyourenotgonnabelievethis,andturnedontheTVand911washappening. AsIwatcheditandwewereimmediatelyactivatedtogopursuebinLadenandtheseterrorists. Lewis:SowhatIwanttodonowiswevetalkedaboutnowwewanttotalkabout14monthspriorto 911youwereawarethatthiswasgoingtobeaverydangerousthingthatwasgoingtohappentothe UnitedStates.InfactitwassobadtheythoughtyouhadtoprepareyourWillandgetyourlifeinorder becausethiswouldbethelastmissionyoudeverbeinvolvedwith.Comingup,Gregwillbetalking abouthowafter911hewasstationedinIraqin2003andthisiswhenthingsgotalittlebitweirdfor him.Alittledangerousforhim.Andhesgoingtobetalkingmoreabouthowthisallofthisrelatesto whatsgoingoninSyria. (Break) Lewis:GregFordiswithusonGroundZerotonightinaspecialGroundZeroasGregisgoingtotellushis story.HeofcoursehasbeenremovedfromhispositionasanIntelligenceOfficerfortheUSArmy becauseheisaWhistleblowerwhohasagreedtocomeonthisprogramtotalktousabouteverything leadinguptowhatsgoingoninSyriarightnowandhis,Iguess,hisexperiencewithblowingthewhistle ontortureandalsoweaponsofmassdestructioninuseofcourseprovided.Weregoingtobringhimon again.Greg,youweretalkingtousabout911tellingusabout14months,theytoldyouprior,14months priortobepreparedforamissionthatmaybeyourlastandyoushouldgetyourWillinorderyour familiesthingsinorderjustincaseyourenotgoingtomakeit.Youweresayingthough,after911

happened,youwereaskedtogooutandtrytoinvestigateaboutwhatwasreallyhappening,andof course,Ireadinyourbackground,ofcourse,itsinthecourtdocumentsthatweresubmittedtomethat youwerestationedinIraqasaNonCommissionedCounterIntelligenceOfficerandtellusmoreabout thatpositionandhowyouweretransferredfromArizonatoIraq. Ford:Arizonaofcoursewasthecourseandschoolandthatisthelargesttrainingcenterforprobably32 nationswheretheysendtheirintelligencepeopletobetrained.Itisbasicallygroundzeroformost intelligencefolksinthebusiness. Now,wehad,likeIsaytherewasabout14monthsbetweenArizonaandNewYork,ok,911NewYork, anditcaughteverybodyflatfooted,actuallywehadalreadybeenbriefedandwewerestillcaughtflat footedbyit.Andsowalkingintotheunit,theUSwasinturmoil,andthatsinSacramento,theunitwas inturmoilcompletely.Alltheentranceshadbeenblockedbythelocalconstabulary,localpolice, highwaypatrolandsoforthandwewereallinformedLook,ok,thisisit.Wereallactivated.Atthis pointweareactivated.Sothatmeansthatyouarenolongeracivilianoperatinglikethislikeanybody elseyouareactuallyinthebusinessnowofhuntingterrorists.Weexpectedwewereinformedthat abouthalfoftheteamwouldprobablybekilledsometimeintheupandcomingmission. Soweweresenttoseveraltrainingsiteswhichtookaboutthreemonthstotrainupandthenweleftthe UnitedStates,thecontinentalUSatDoverAirForcebaseandweflewintoKuwait.WeflewoverEgypt, SaudiArabiaatnight,lightsoffandwelandedinKuwaitandthengatheredourresourcesandwaitedfor thebordertobebreechedinIraq.TheIraqKuwaitborderhadtobebreeched.Ithadtobeblownup. Therewasalevy,alargehugebermthathadtohaveseveraltonsofexplosivesplacedintoitanditwas breeched.Andsowewaitedforthat.ThenitwasadrivenorthonthefamousroadtoSamarra.Ok, biblicalterms,andweareinabiblicallandandeverybodywaswellawarewewereinapartof MesopotamiaandwedidnotreallyexpecttorunintoAlQueda.Thiswastheinvasionthatwehadbeen toldthatweaponsofmassdestructionwouldbefoundin. Wewerelookingforweaponsofmassdestructionandsomehow,alongtheway,AlQuedagotlostin theassignment.AndwewerejustinformedthatwehadtogetintoIraqandfindtheseweaponsofmass destruction,completely,thatwasourtoppriority.Wedroveforthreedaysontheroadnorthandwe tookupinitialresidence,drovethroughBaghdad,andthepeoplewereactuallyoutwelcomingus.You hearhowtheywerentwelcomingthetroops,theywere.Theyweregladtoseeus. ButthethingaboutBaghdadIrememberthemostwasthecompletemoonscapeofbuildingsand housesthathadbeenreducedtopilesandpilesofrubblesandburningtanksthathadbeenhitwith radioactiverounds.Therewerehundredsofdestroyedtanksand,andhundredsofdestroyedbuildings. Idneverseensuchdevastationinmylife. Sowe,wewentnorthfromBaghdad,becauseBaghdadwassecured,andIstartednoticingvehicles comingtheotherway,asintanksonheavytransport,ourtankscomingtheotherwayandwehadnot wehadalwaysheardthatourtoplinebattletankshadbeenbasicallyhardenedagainstanythingand couldsurviveanything.Thesetanksclearlydidnot.Theywerecompletelydemolishedandthatmadeus think,ok,thereweretruckscomingbackwiththeirfrontendsshotcompletelyoffsowethoughtwhat

arewegoinginto?So,myunitwenttoaplacecalledSamarraandyoufolkslisteningmightremember SamarraasbeingthesiteoftheGoldenMosqueandtheGoldenMosquewasblown,blowntobitsby theAlQuedainSamarraokAlQuedainIraq. (Break) Lewis:YouweretalkingaboutgoingtoSamarrathatswhereyouwerestationed.Areyoufamiliarwith thestory,Greg,oftheappointmentinSamarra?Whereitsanoldshortstoryaboutayoungservantthat wenttoSamarratryingtoescapeanappointmentwithdeathbutdeathwasthereanyway.Andsoit doesntmatterwhereyougo.Samarraissupposedtobeasanctuarybutitneverturnedouttobe becauseitwasbasicallyaplacewheredeathwouldbenomatterwhereyouturned. Ford:IwasthinkingaboutthatbiblicalstorytheentiretripgoingnorthtoSamarra.Yes,Imvery familiarwithit.NowthetripbetweenBaghdadandBaladthatwastheinitialtripwhereAbuGhraib comesin.Therewasatremendoussandstormandyoufolksprobablyrememberthat.Therewasalot reportingonthisstorm.ItwentonforafewdaysandIdneverbeeninadesertsandstormlikethis.And IgotmyfirsttasteoftheShiaSunnihatred,themurderoushatredthatgoesontherewhenwewere creepingalongaboutamileanhourinthroughthe,headednorthontheroadtoSamarra,headednorth andoutofthesandcameacamelandtwopeopleonitanditturnedouttobetwobrothers.Iasked themIsaidIsthereanysoldiers,Iraqisoldiers,aheadofus,isthereanybodyup[there]?andtheysaid Yes,thereis.AndtheysaidAboutahundredmetersinfrontofusinasandstorm.Theycouldnotsee us.Wecouldnotseethem.Buttheywerethere. Isaidoknow,thankyouverymuchtothetwocamelpeople,thetwocamelbrothers,andtheyturned tomeandtheylookedmerightintheeyeandtheysaidWell,look,forfivedollarsaheadwellgoin andkilltwoIraqisoldierswhichareSunniIraqisoldiersandbringtheirheadback,theirheadsbackina sack.Ok,aleathersackandyougettokeepthesacktheytoldme.Andsothatgavemearealtasteof whatkindofanimosityexistedbetweentheSunnisandtheShias. Ideclinedandwestartedcreepingforwardandtherewasoneepisodewheretherewasjustabright flashandonevehiclethatwasntoursblewup.Thatwasreallytheonlycontactthatwemadeandthen wecameoutofthesandstormandthatwasthat. So,wewereheadednorthtoacitycalledBalad,BALAD.Now,Baladfiguresprominentlybecause thatswheremyheadquarters[were]initiallysetup.Myheadquarterswasthe,wasthe,wewere actuallyjoiningagroupintheheadquartersthatwasgoingtogotoAbuGhraibprison.Imsure everybodysheardthatname,AbuGhraib,whichhadbeenHusseinsprisonofnightmares.Itsprobably themosthorrificplaceonearthandweweregoingtosetupourheadquartersthere.Wehad,we actuallyaheadquartersandadeputyheadquartersinBalad. SowehadoneinAbuGhraibinBuilding1Atheinfamousbuilding1AcommandedbytheinfamousCol ThomasPapasandtheothervillageaswecalledwasgoingtobesetupatBalad.Now,theinteresting thingaboutBaladwaswhenwegottheretosetupourvillageIstarteddoingtheintelligenceissueandI gottalkingtopeople.PeoplewerecomingtoussayingLook,youvegottogetSaddamHusseinoutof

here.Yougottadothis.Yougottadothat.Wedontwantyouinvadingourcountrybutitsworthitto getridoftheseguys. Iwasspeakingtoonethem,oneofthesepeople,whatwecallintheintelligencebusinessawalkin andhesaid,helookedmerightintheeye,andsaidWell,look,ImtheColonelwhocommandedthe unit,thefighterbomberwing,andweweredroppingtheweaponsofmassdestructionontheKurdsin theNorthernpartofIraqandalsotheIraniansintheSouthernpartofIranwheretherewasaninvasion goingonofIranintoIraq. Lewis:Sohewastellingyouthis,thiswaslongbeforeitwaseverreleased,asadeclassifiedMemo,I guessitwaswhataweekago,thattheyweresayingthatwewerecomplicitinthebombingofthe Kurdswiththosechemicalweapons? Ford:BombingoftheKurdsandtheIranians.Sonow,nowIlookatwhattheIranians,howtheyare behaving,Ithink,howmanyoftheirpeopledidweinadvertentlykillwithweaponsofmassdestruction? Howmanyofourshavebeenkilledbytheirweaponsofmassdestruction?SoIcankindofunderstand howtheIraniansbehavenow. ButthiscommandersaidWell,look,ifyourelookingforweaponsofmassdestructionandyouinvaded ourcountryletsgettheseweaponsofmassdestructionoutofhereandmaybeyoullleave.IsaidWell, youwouldnthappentoknowwhereanyare,andhesaidyes,Iknowwherethelastgroupisand,andI wantyoutogetridofthem.Please,getridofthem.Andheproceededtobriefmeonhowheknew aboutourweaponsofmassdestructionand,andwheretheywerelocatedandwho,andwhatthe logistics,thatsveryimportanttointelligenceworkislogistics.Thespecialtiesaboutweaponsofmass destructionWhomadethem?Whomanufacturedthem?HowtheygetintoIraqinthefirstplace?And whathappenedwhenyoudroppedthoseweaponsofmassdestructiononpeople?Isaidok,youknow wheretheyare?andhesaidYesIdo.Iwillseeyoutomorrowmorningandwewillgogetthese weaponsofmassdestructionthatyourweaponsinspectorsarelookingfor.So,great,great. Thenextmorningheshowedup.ThisisonBaladAirBaseandtherewas,hetooktomeabunker.An undergroundbunkerwithbombdoorsonthetopanditwasaboutonestorydownundergroundandI thoughtokGreg,youfinallyhavedoneitthistimeyouregoingtoeithergetkilledinthisbunkeror youregoingtogetblownupbyaboobytrap.Ididntknowwhattoexpect. IwentinandIturnedonmyredlighttoavoidsettingoffanykindofboobytraps.Iwalkedinandthere were,firstofallitwas130degreesinsidethisbunker.Therewere28,therewassupposedtobe29,I foundtheotherWMDonthesurfacelaterbuttherewere28hugeWMDweapons.Theseweapons weresittingthere,theydbeenthereawhile.Iwentoverandtheywereinpackingcrates,largewooden packingcrates.Eachonewasaboutathousandpoundcanister.Oneachpackingcrate,andImreading thisunderaredlight,perspirationispouringoffofmebutwhatisthisthing? Thereisthisbilloflading.ThereisabillofladingtapedtoeachcrateandIpulledthebillofladingoff, whichisabillofshipmentanditsaysthesearetheP400convertedbombcanistersmanufacturedinFt. Rucker,Alabama.TheseweaponsareVX/GF.NowIknewwhatVXgaswaseventhoughImnotanbc

weaponsspecialistandthatstandsfornuclearbiologicalchemicalspecialist.IknewwhatVXgaswas, buttheseweremarkedveryoddly.ThesewerentmarkedjustVXgas,whichisprobablythemostlethal nerveagentonearth,theseweremarkedVX/GF.IcalledmysourceoverandIsaidWhatdoesthis meanandhesaidAsRussianintelligenceexplainedtohim,thatGFstandsforbasicallyauntreatable nervegas.Ifyoureexposedtoonemicrodrop,whichisthesizeoffog,okonemicrodroptothisVX/GF youredead.Thereisnotreatment.Nothingyoucaninject.Itwillgorightthroughyoursuit,ifyoure wearingachemicalsuit,itwillgorightthroughit.Youredead.Thereisnothingsavingyou. ThewholebillofladingsaidbasicallytheydbeenmanufacturedbytheCarlyleGroup.Theyhadbeen shipped,theyhadshipmentdatesoftheseweapons.TheyhadbeenmovedthroughSpainintoTurkey andacrosstheborderandIfoundonebillofladingthatstatedthattheyhadbeenactuallyshippedtwo monthsbeforewearrived. Lewis:Now,whereweretheseweaponsinthiscellar?Whereweretheyat?Again. Ford:Theseweaponswereonofcourse,BaladAirForcebase,whichBaladisalargearea,itsinthe centerofIraqanditwasthelargestAirForceBasethatSaddamHusseinhad.OfalltheAirForceBases thiswasthelargest. Nowthiswasinacellar,thiswasinabunker,excuseme,abunkerthathadbeenbuiltbythe YugoslaviansandEastGermanstohouselargeamountsofmunitions.Bombsandsoforth.Well,they hadbeenloweredthroughtheroof,thebombdoors,loweredintothisroomandtheretheysat.Nobody hadtouchedtheseweaponsbuttheretheysat.AndIthoughtWell,nowondertheweaponsinspectors couldntfindthem,therewasnothingtoindicatethesebombswerehere. (Break) Lewis:Whereweleftoffgoaheadandcontinueyourstory. Ford:ThebillsofladingbasicallyhadalloftheinformationIneededandmysource,theIraqi Commander,saidHey,youwantsomethingforyourcommanderdontyou?Hewentoverandundida dispersaldooronthebackofoneoftheseweapons.Itsaboutsixinchesacrossandwhathappensis whenyoudroptheseweaponstheypressurizeandtheyblowVXgasoutandanythingthatcanbreathe isdeadformilesaround.Thatshowlethaltheseweaponsare. Hegavemethedispersaldoorandtherewasanumber,therewasagovernmentsupplynumber stampedonthisdispersaldoor.SoItookthatandacoupleofthebillsofladingbacktomycommander. Andmycommander,helooksatthemandlooksatmeandhesaysyoujustfoundthemotherloadof weaponsofmassdestruction.Great,great,ImgladIdidsomethingbecausethenextIdayIwas scheduledtobeinSamarra,theGoldenCity. Nothinghappened.WewatchedCNN.NoannouncementsweremadeandIbegantothinkthesebillsof ladinghadbasicallyimplicatedandindictedtheCarlylecorporationokaytheCarlyleGroup,andIstarted thinkingourPresidentwouldnthavedonesomethinglike,likegetusintoawartogetridofthese

weapons?Theseweaponswereconnectedtohisfamily,whostartedtheCarlyleGroup.AndIthought no,Ineedtoputthisout,Iminthemiddleofawar;putitoutofmyhead.Thatcantbe. Wesawnorelease.NeverhitCNNasIsaidandbythenextdayIreceivednoticethatBritishintelligence technicalgrouphadbeeninformedoftheseweaponsandtheyhadreceivedordersfrom,firstofallthe WhiteHouseandtheUKtodestroytheseweapons.Theyshowedupthenextday,andthiswasall filmedandrecorded,anditsstillinthearchivesofthemplacingeachweaponinsideanarcfurnace. Arcfurnaceistheonlywaytodestroysomethingsodangerousaseitheranuclearweaponorasa chemicalweaponlikethis. WhenIwaswatchingthedestructionIwasthinkingthesearethesameweaponsthattheUnitedStates Senate,afewyearsbefore,saidundernocircumstancesaretheytobeshippedtoanythirdworldeither dictatororrulerb/ctheyaresodangerousthatiftheyreactivatedtheywillwipeoutacity.Theyare classifiedasacitykiller.IthoughtthesewerethesameweaponsthatwerereconfiguredinFt.Rucker, Alabama,storedinPineBluffsArkansas,andthenmoved,rightbeforethefirstGulfWar,movedtothe MiddleEastandtheseweretheonestheweaponsinspectorswerelookingfor.Sotheweapons inspectorswerenevernotifiedthatthesewerefoundandbythattimeIhadtogotoSamarra. Itsnotlikethemovieswherespiesjusthaveallthistimetorunaroundandchaseallthisstuffdown,no, IhadbusinessinSamarra. (Break) Lewis:Canyougiveuskindofawrapupofwhathashappenedtoyouandofcourse,theconnectionsto Syriaandstatesponsoredterrorismasfarasallowingfortheweaponsofmassdestructiontobe manufacturedanddistributedamongstthesecountries? Ford:Yes,whenwedidarriveinSamarraoneofmy,whatwecallwalkinsources,cameinonedayand thisisafterIhadwalkedintothemouthofaAlQuedatrainingcamp,whichIdidnotknowatthetime. GodprotectsfoolsandchildrenandsoIwasnochildandsoIknewwhattheotheronewas.That evening,mysourcecametomeandhesaidDoyouknowhowluckyyouaretobealive?Thatyou werenttorntopieces?Whyisthat?ThatwasAlQuedathatyouwalkedintothemiddleofnextdoor. WewerenextdoortoAlQueda.Well,thankyouverymuch.Iwontmakethatmistakeagainbuthe saidHere,look.Ihavetransferdocumentsstatingthatyourweaponsofmassdestructionthatwere heretheyweremovedbyMukharbaratandMukharbaratistheIraqiintelligenceservicethat[are]very feared,verydangerous,veryloyal.IsaidWhatdoesthishavetodowithanything?andhesaidLook hesaidTheseweaponsofmassdestructionthatyouhadbefore,thatyousentusbeforeyouinvaded wellseveralofthemweremovedintoSyria.Isaidok.Doyouhavethedocumentstoshowtheywere movedintoSyriaandheproducedthosetransferdocuments? AndInoticedthattherewereothershipmentsassignedtothesameloads.HesaidTheyhadmoved, theyhadorderstomovethegoldfromSamarra,theGoldenCity,thebankingcityofSamarra,into Syria.ThoseweaponswentintoSyria.IsaidWheredidtheygoinSyria?Veryimportantsowecan tracktheseweapons.HesaidTheywenttothelargestfacility,storagefacilityinalloftheworld,

globally.ItsafewmilessouthofDamascus.IsaidWhatisthere?andhesaidAllyourweaponsthat yousoldusthatwefinancedthroughyourbanks.Wefinancedthepurchaseofthoseweaponsthrough yourbanksandyousoldusandthoseweaponshavenowbeenmovedtothisDamascusweaponsdepot whichisabout,hesaidhedescribeditasabouteightmilessouthofDamascus. IsaidOk,whatsthere?HesaidEveryknownweaponofmassdestructionandkillingagentthereis known,madebymanisthere.Isaidisthereanythingelsethere?andhesaidTheresrumoredtobe nuclearissuesthere.Likenuclearinstrumentationasindetonators.Hedidntsaybombshesaid detonators,yeah,detonators. IsaidGreat.Now,whatdoyouwantmetodowiththisinformation?HesaidReportit.Sendittoyour people.Makesuretheydonotblowupthatdepot.Itisveryimportanttheydonotuseanykindof flamearoundthismaterial. Isentthereportsanddidnthearawordbackfromanybody.Notoneword.Notthroughthechainof command.Anybody. ThenextdayIhappentobeworking.Imalsoatrainedphysician.AndInoticedthatinmy,inmypeople intheintelligencegroupIwaswiththeystartedtogetreallyviolentduringtheirinterrogations.And whenIsayviolentImeansettingpeopleonfire,andthentalkingtothemaskingthemquestionswhile theyareonfire,andstranglingandofcourse,everythingelse. So,IwasspeakingtoapersonandIgotcalledintotheroom,Ihadtoputouttheflamesonthisyoung boywhowasbeinginterrogatedandtheysaidTakecareofhim.Ok,hehadhadaheartattackandwas unconsciousandsoIdidtakecareofhim,revivedhim.AndIcamebackoutandtherewasamilitary policemanandhelookedmerightintheeyeandsaidWhyareyou,whyareyoudoingthis.Whatare you,whatareyou,whatdoyouhopetoaccomplish?IsaidWhatareyoutalkingabout?HesaidYour headquartersisabsolutelydestroyingthesepeople.AbuGhraib?Yes,hesaidAbuGhraib.These peoplethataregoingdownthereareabsolutelybeingtakenapartandtorturedandabusedand anythingelseyouwant.Andsohesaidyoudonthavetodoithere.WewilldoitforyouinAbu Ghraib. AndsoIthought,well,IbettertakeourdetaineesdownthereandmakesuretheyatleastgettoAbu Ghraibandalive.Takemymedicaldocumentationwithme,them.So,IdidandthatswhereIsaw horrendoustortureandIwasexpectedtotreatthathorrendoustorture.So,Ifiledmyreports,Ifiled myreportsonthattortureandthatswhereIguesshistorywasmadebecausethatbecamethegreatest scandalinUnitedStateshistory. Asaresult,Iwasphysicallygrabbed,alright,bymycommand,Iwasgrabbed,abducted,slammedontoa stretcherandshotfullofdrugs,immediately,andbecauseIhadfiledchargestostopthistorture,andI was,Iwasactuallytortured.Idontrememberit.Iwasactuallytortured.WhileIwasonthestretcher theywantedtoknowwhoIdcontactedaboutthetorturegoingonatAbuGhraib.Andso,Iwokeupon anAirForceplane.WehadleftIraqandIlookeddownandIcouldseetheRockofGibraltarpassing beneathourfeet.SoIthought,well,Imluckytobealive.

AndsoIgotbackandfiledthereportsthatyounowsee,thecourtreportsandsoforth. Justeightweeksagothough,IreceivedarequestanditwasanoddrequestitsaidWhat,whatisthere aboutthoseweaponsthatwentintoSyriathatweneedtoknowabout?IsaidItskindoflatenowtobe askingandtheysaidNo,weneedtoknowbecauseweregoingtodosomethingtothoseweapons. Weregoingtotrytodestroythem. Isaidok,alright,whatelseisitwearegoingtodo? HesaidthatIsraelipilotsarecirclingDamascusrightnowintheirfightersandtheirwaitingtoblowup anythingthatlookslikeaconvoycarryingweaponsofmassdestruction. EightweeksagoIsentthereportsayingUndernocircumstancesareyoutousethermobaricweapons todestroythoseconvoys.Youcanuseconventionalweapons.thermobaricweapons,ifitisVXgas,will ignitethatgasandyoucouldpossiblywipeoutallofDamascuswithoneortwoweaponsiftheyignite. Isenttheletter,excuseme,IsentthereportthroughtoWashington.WashingtontoIsraelandI,my lawyerjustinformedmethathereceivedaresponsebackthreedaysagothatsaidthattheywouldnot usecruisemissilesasaresultofmyreporttotrytodestroyanyofthoseweaponsdepots. Ok,great,atleastDamascuswillbesavedatthispointandthenofcourse,thenewshasbrokenand theyhaveusedsarin.Alright.ThefirstthingIthoughtwasThosepeoplelookedtogoodbecauseifthat wasVXgas,itwouldhavewipedouteverybody.TheyhadtousesomethingotherlikeTaboon(sp?), PhosgeneorSarinanditturnsoutitwasSarin.Somebodyhadtohavehadaccesstothatweapons depotandtakenthatsarinoutofstorageandfiredit.Sarincanbedeliveredonartilleryshellsorthey canbedeliveredonmissiles.Itturnsout,Ithink,IthinkIwasright.IthinkIdidtherightthing. (Break) LewisasksFordQuestions Lewis:ThesituationinSyria.Whodoyouthinkisresponsibleforthedispersingofthatgasthathaskilled andharmedthatmanypeople? Ford:Goodquestion.KnowinghowthosegovernmentsworkandunderstandingthattheBasharAssad wasthesonofprobablyoneofthemostbrutaldictatorsintheMiddleEast.Ever.Iwouldsaythatthere wasalreadyenoughhatredfromallthegenocidehehadpracticedontheAlawitestosayok,itwas probablyhim,butthenagain,theserebelshaveaccesstoallofthismaterialthatcancausethiskindof damageanditseasytoturnthisthingaroundtomakeitlooklikethegovernmentdidit.Idontthink thegovernmentwouldhesitatetouseitbuttheyhavebeenheavyhandedinthepastwiththeCityof HomsandHamas.TherestwocitiesthatareinthenorthernpartofSyria.Thefatherwasextremely brutal.Hejustleveledandturnedbothcitiesintoparkinglots.AllIcansayisitlookslikethe governmentdiditandthatswhattheevidencewouldbe,Iwouldhavetolookatotherthingslike launchsites,typeofdeliverysystemsthatwereusedandthetime,becausethetimeinfluencesthat typeofgasthatwasusedontheb/cthegroundpressurethatwasused,thegroundpressureand

temperatureallthesethingsIwouldsaythatitwasprobablythegovernmentthatactuallylaunchedthis attack. Lewis:So,ifyouresayingthatthenPresidentObamaisgoingtomakeadecisionastowhetherornot hewantstofirerocketsatmilitarytargetsandweknowallofthemilitarytargetsthatwouldbefired uponwouldbedestroyedoutright.Wouldthismeanthenthatiftheyredestroyedandthatgasremains inthosemilitarytargetsthatliterallytheyredestroyingtheevidence,correct? Ford:TheyareprobablydestroyingtheevidencethattheywereAmericanmadegascanisters.Yes,they woulddestroythose.ButmybiggestconcernisiftheresclosetoamillionpeoplewholiveinDamascus andtheDamascusareaandifanyofthosecanisterswereignitedveryeasily,especiallyaVX/GFcanister youcouldeasilykilleveryoneinDamascus. Lewis:WhatwouldbetheresponsefromRussiaandothergroupsifthiswastohappen?Thisisthing thatworriesmethemostandmostofmylistenersiswhileObamaandwarhawksalltoiloverwhether ornottheyshoulddoitwhenmanyoftheAmericanpeopleknowwhattheresponseisgoingtobe;I heardthetermusedBamanoeffect,aftertheserocketsarelaunchedwellbeseeingbombsonour doorstep.Whatistheprobabilityofthis? Ford:Well,ifourmilitaryhasbehavedliketheyhaveinthepasttowardstheseissuesandthereare certainlylevelsofscandalthatwouldhavetobecoveredupandpoliticalembarrassmentthathastobe coveredup,Iwouldstronglysuspectthatmaybeinoneoftheperipheralcountriestheresalready severalteamssetuptogoinandlocatetheseweaponsandeitherdestroythemorremovethem. Alright.Andtheyprobablyhavethebackupandsupport.Youhavetohavelogisticsforthese operations.Youhavetohaveairplanes.Youhavetohavetransportation.Youhavetohavethetrained personnel.Youhavetohaveequipment,liftingequipment;noneofthisstuffislight.Onemancantlift anyofthis.So,youhavetohaveallofthisreadytogoandIstronglysuspectthatinoneoftheperiphery countries,thatisfairlyfriendlytous,thatthereisalreadyseveralteamswaitingtogoinwhenthey wontgetshotatbysnipersandtheywontrunintoangrypeoplethatareheavilyarmed.Isuspectthat thatistheissue.Theywillgoin.Ithinkitwouldbesuicideifwelaunchedanykindofmissilesystemat anyoftheseweapons. Lewis:ObamaisclaimingnobootwilltouchthegroundinSyriaandJohnKerryhadsaidtherewouldbe bootstouchingtheground.Thenhebacktrackedonthatissue.Nowitseemslikeitisgoingtobeapush buttonwarandafiringoncertaintargetsandthenhopingnoonefiresbackorhopingthatRussia doesntblinkorIrandoesntgetpulledintothis.So,thatsmybigconcernrightnow. Ford:Yes,youreabsolutelycorrect.Thoseareconcerns.Butthisissue,becausewevealreadystated thatthereisanultimatuminvolvedhere.Wehaveapresidentthathassaidandhispositionisthatwe willnotletthisgoandiftheyhavetousechemicalweapons,yes,wewillreact.Sowehavetodo somethingbutweneedtomakesurewedotherightthing.Obviously,Iraqwasnottherightthing. Obviously,Iraqwasdisastrousandsowedonotneedtodothatagain.Butwe,butwedoneedtomake surethat,thataccordingtotheGenevaConventionsandalloftheotherissuesofhumanjusticeand preservationthat,thatwedoeverythingwecantomakesurethisdoesnotgetrepeated.Theirneighbor

wastheonly,sinceWWII,wastheonlycountrytoeverusegasandthatwasIraq.Thefalloutnowfrom IraqandwhattheydidtoIraniscomingtothefore (Endtime1:39) Startingat1:42:20to2:17:06GregFordtakesquestionsfromlistenersofGroundZeroRadio.TheT Roomdidnottranscribethisportionoftheshowduetotime.Fordcontinuedtosharehiscurrent understandingsofeventsinSyria,moreinsightintotheCarlyleGroupandhowtheweaponsofmass destructionmadetheirwayintoIraq. Edit:September6,2013:ThermalBerrickwasreplacedwiththermobaric;PapastoPappas. ### WHENSOURCINGTHISMATERIALFORYOUROWNWORKPLEASEGIVEAPPROPRIATECREDITTOTHET ROOMTRoom.usTHANKYOU.