1/2/13

ALEJANDRO JODOROWSKY - Article detail - Flash Art

Home | Subscriptions | Archive | Search | Advertising | Contact | FlashArtItaly

<<BACKTOTHEHOMEPAGEOFTHISSESSION

JanuaryFebruary

ALEJANDROJODOROWSKY
KlausBiesenbach

FlashArt285JulyAugustSeptember2012 THEWORLDACCORDINGTO AlejandroJodorowsky:IwouldliketostartthisalphabetwiththeletterBastheprologue. Bonsai.Why?BecauseyouareinfrontofthisbigtreethatwasonceaBonsaibutwasgiven thefreedomtogrow.Itslikehumans.Wearebonsais.Withtheeconomicsystem,ourmoral tradition,weareprisoners,butwhenyoutakeawaythelimitsofthemindandthesoul,youare abletogrowspiritually. KlausBiesenbach:IhadoriginallywrittentheletterAforanarchy.Whatdoesanarchymean toyou? AJ:Anarchymeansfreedom.ButitsnottheGodorthemaster.Itsagainstthepower. Anarchyisaboutdestroyingthepower,andthatsnotgoodforme.Iwanttogrow.Idontneed tocriticizeIamagainsttheartnowthatprofitsfromthebadsituationtomakecriticalartlike arevolution.

THERISEOFTURKEY
GiancarloPolitiandHelenaKontova

FOCUSTURKEY

PATRICIATREIB
HeatherCorcoran

Review

AVNERBENGAL
OryDessau

USEDSCREWSFORSALE JENNYHOLZER
YaelLipschutz

Review

JOHNHENDERSON
MaurizioCattelan

SELFREPRESENTATION Articlesarchive

FocusGreece FocusIndia FocusItaly TalkingLondon TheLowerEastSide

AlejandroJodorowsky'sportrait.Photo:LizzieGorfaine

KB:Originally,IhadthewordbloodfortheletterB. AJ:Bloodislikeoilorpetroleum.Thebloodinsidethebodyisbeautifulbecauseeverysingle personontheplanetisredinside.Bloodoutsidethebodyisterrible.Thesamewithoil,when

www.flashartonline.com/interno.php?pagina=articolo_det&id_art=931&det=ok&title=ALEJANDRO-J

1/6

1/2/13

ALEJANDRO JODOROWSKY - Article detail - Flash Art

personontheplanetisredinside.Bloodoutsidethebodyisterrible.Thesamewithoil,when insidetheearthitsfantasticbutwhenyoutakeitoutside,itspoison. KB:FortheletterC,Ithoughtaboutcolors. AJ:Thepersonwhoreally,reallyfeelscolorsisablindperson,becauseonlybyexperiencing blackyourealizewhatcoloris.Youarriveatpoetrywhenyouarriveatsilence.Whenyouare indespair,yourealizethebeautyofthelanguage.Itsabouttheactofmissing.TheJewish peoplehaveatheoryaboutthisintheKabbalah.Godcreatestheworld,buthecreatesfear whereheisnot. KB:FortheletterDIthoughtaboutdreaming.Isdreamingimportant? AJ:Dreamsarebecomingreality,andrealityisbecomingadream. KB:Inrelationtoyourupcomingfilm,whenyourefertotheDanceofReality ,doyoumean dreamingorareyoutalkingaboutvision? AJ:Peoplethinkrealityisfixed.Butitischangingcompletely.Itsadanceofreality. Nothingisdisorder. KB:Whatabouteroticdance?Whatdoeseroticmeantoyou? AJ:Whenyouhaveacake,youhavethewhiteicing,thebreadyinside,andthefruits.Allthe differentparts.Eroticismissimilarlyjustoneofthedifferentpartsoflife,likethefourhorses ofthechariottheintellect,emotion,theerotic,andthephysicalcorpus.Whentheresonly sexseparatedfromlifeitsjustdirtyphotography.

www.flashartonline.com/interno.php?pagina=articolo_det&id_art=931&det=ok&title=ALEJANDRO-J

2/6

1/2/13

ALEJANDRO JODOROWSKY - Article detail - Flash Art

ALEJANDROJODOROWSKY,ElTopo,1970.Filmstill.CourtesyABKCOFilms,Inc.,NewYork.

KB:Onefascinationyouhaveisforfelines. AJ:IminterestedinallthemagicfromEgypt,fromthepast.Magiciansandwitchesalways haveacat.Whyacat?Becausehecanseeobscurity.Theselfmustseetheobscurityofthe unconscious.Icannotlivewithoutacattheyopenourlogicalmindtointuition. KB:Gratitude,whatdoesthatmeantoyou? AJ:Oneisveryhappy,andtheotherisbad.Ithink,WhyamIinabadmood?Iprayallthe time,likeyou.Theysay,Becauseyouprayonlyforyoursins.AndIprayonlytogive thanks.Forme,oneofthebiggestvaluesofthespirituallifeistosaythankyouforliving. KB:Holy AJ:Holinessistobeconstantwhereveryouare.Weareinthemiddleofthemostincredible holiness.Theuniverseisdivine,weareinthemiddleofdivinity,andthedivinityisinthe middleofus. KB:Inspiration AJ:Themindislikeametalboxwhereyouhidemoney,butwhenyouopenthemindtothe east,west,northandsouth,youopenyourmindtothewindsofinspiration.Youopenyour mindtothemysterythatisinsideyou,tothetalent,tothenaturalcreativitythatisinside everyhumanbeing. KB:IhadtwowordsforIWhataboutimages? AJ:Imagesareabouttheeyes.Theeyesareinrelationtosexualityeveryimageisasongof yourtesticlesoryourovaries.Smellisinrelationtointelligencesoundisinrelationtoyour hands,andsoon.Theimagehelpswiththeseconnections. KB:WhenIthinkaboutyourmovies,Ithinkofjoy. AJ:WhenIwenttoseemyZenmasterEjoTakatainMexico,Isawapersonwhoiswithout ageandwithoutnationality.Hisworldisoneofpurehappiness.AlltheteachingofZenistobe happy.Tobeenlightenedispurejoy. KB:K.King.Isthekinganimportantwordforyouwhenthinkingofyourcompositions? AJ:Yes.Kingisanimportantwordtoconfrontourmultitudeofegos.Wearenotreally ourselves,untilonepartofuswhichistheessentialbeingbecomeskingandmakesan ordertoalltheegos.Fromthere,everypersonishimself.Heisakingofhimself. KB:Kabbalah. AJ:Kabbalahisthesimultaneousmaterializationofthespiritualandthespiritualizationof matter.Bringingtheunknowntoourmateriality,andtobringourmaterialitytotheunknown.In ChristianityyouhavethesoulwhogoestothematerialChrist,whothengoestotheskyand theVirginMary,anormalwomanwhobecomesagoddess.

www.flashartonline.com/interno.php?pagina=articolo_det&id_art=931&det=ok&title=ALEJANDRO-J

3/6

1/2/13

ALEJANDRO JODOROWSKY - Article detail - Flash Art

ALEJANDROJODOROWSKY,ElTopo,1970.Filmstill.CourtesyABKCOFilms,Inc.,NewYork.

KB:Literature AJ:Theonlyliteraturethatisimportanttomeispoetry.Itisaboutthemaximumexpressionof aconceptintheminimumamountofwords.NowitsTwitter.Thisisliteratureforme KB:Twitter?[laughs] AJ:Yes,toputanenormousquantityofthoughtsinto140characters.Itsaboutcompression. Inthe21stcentury,TwitteristhehaikuoftheMiddleAges. KB:Whataboutmythology? AJ:Everythingfromthemomentwearebornisamyth.Weareborninasocietythatbelieves amanwalkedonwater.Asocietythatbelievesavirgincreatedachild.Webelieveaperson canwakefromthedeadafterfourdays.Weareasocietythatbelievesinthemythofliberty, equalityandfraternity.Wealwaysneedanimagethatissuperiortous.Nowitcomesacross incinemaandsport. KB:TheotherwordforMwouldhavebeenmovies. AJ:Moviesarethesamethemoviesgaveusanideaofheroes.Nowwehavenothing. Weonlyhavedisgustingstarsinthemovies. KB:[laughs]Thankyou,thatswhatIwantedtohear! AJ:Wehavedirtychickenswithpeacockfeathers. KB:Thatsverynice!Whataboutnature? AJ:Nobodyinoursocietyiswhatheis.Everybodyisbeingthepersonsomeoneelsewants himorhertobe.Welivewithmasks,andunderthemasksisemptiness,nothingisthere. Natureistotakeoffthemaskandreassertwhatyouare.Inthepresent,youarenotthe personyouwere,youarenotthepersonyouwillbe.Youarethepersonyouare.Natureisthe essenceoflife. KB:Isnaturealsomountains?IsTheHolyMountain(1973)aboutholynature? AJ:Yes.Mountainsareessential.Metaphorically,toclimbistogotothedeepestpointof yourself.Toclimbamountainistofindyourinteriority. KB:O.Oracle. AJ:Oisacircle.Itisperfection.Thereisnothingtoadd,nothingtotakeaway.ThatistheO. KB:SowedonthaveawordforO?Itsjustabeautifulletter? AJ:Yes,itsround.Andthenyoucometothesymbolofperfection,whichistheanus.That isperfection[laughs]becauseitisaneroticcenter,anditalsocreatesfertilizertomakethings grow.Ithinkofthehalosonsaintsheadsasbeinganuses.

www.flashartonline.com/interno.php?pagina=articolo_det&id_art=931&det=ok&title=ALEJANDRO-J

4/6

1/2/13

ALEJANDRO JODOROWSKY - Article detail - Flash Art

ALEJANDROJODOROWSKY,ElTopo,1970.Filmstill.CourtesyABKCOFilms,Inc.,NewYork.

KB:IhavetwowordsfortheletterP.Oneispoliticsandoneispoetry.Whichdoyoulike better? AJ:Politicsisperishednow.Politicswastheloveofthecity,butnowcitieshavebecomethe canceroftheplanets.Politicianshavenopower,astheydontreallyexisttheyarepuppetsof theeconomicsystem.Panicisgood.Whenwedosomethingweneverdo,weletourselvesbe whatwethinkwearenot.Whentherespanic,youletoutyourtruenature.Andwhatisthat?It istheenormousandincredibledesiretolive.Itisaveryilluminatingmoment. KB:TheletterQ AJ:ItisanOwithanailthroughit.Itisperfectionthathasanimperfection. KB:MyQwordwasquestion AJ:Aquestionisjustananswerdisguised.Theworkisnottofindtheansweritstofind therealquestion.Whenyoufindtherealquestion,theansweristhere. KB:FortheletterRIhadthewordritual. AJ:Itsaboutrepetition,torepeatabeautifulintention.Torepeatsomethingsacredyoumust understandabsoluterespect.Ifyoudontrespectapaintingoraflower,youcannotunderstand itsbeauty.Irememberaprisonerforlifescreamedwithfearwhenhefoundamouseinhis cell.Themousecouldcomeandgoashepleased,sohelearnedtorespectthemouseand hisfreedom. KB:Buthowisritualconnectedtorespect? AJ:Wedontknowwhatrespectissowemustlearnit. KB:Sotheritualistherepetitionofrespect? AJ:Yes,yes.Ifyourespectandrepeatit,maybeyouwontloseit. KB:FortheletterS,seduction. AJ:Ihaveaserpent.Fromthebeginningofmythology,Sistheserpent.Thetemptationofthe serpenttellingyoutogoandeatthefruitoftheconsciousness. KB:Isartthefruitofconsciousness?Whatisseduction?Isitart? AJ:Mancannotgointothetruthbecausewedonthavethebrainforit.Butthelightoftruthis beautiful,andthatisart.Lifeisanillusion,andartallowsustoliveinthemostbeautiful illusion.Itsnotareality,butitistheproductoftruth. KB:TheletterTis AJ:Itsprotection.Youhaveaverticalandahorizontal.Intheshadowofthetreeyoucanlive withouteatingthefruits.

ALEJANDROJODOROWSKY,TheHolyMountain,1973.Filmstill.CourtesyABKCOFilms,Inc.,NewYork.

KB:TheletterTformewastarot. AJ:Thatsalsoaboutteaching,andprotecting.Whenyouareteachingsomethingyouare protecting.Whenyouteachyourselfsomethingyouareprotectingyourselffromtheartificial ego.Itisamirrorofreality.Amirrorofyourself.WhenIfirststartedworkingwithtarotIhated itbecauseIdidntunderstand.ButthenIrealizeditwaswhatIdidntunderstandaboutmyself. AndwhatIhatedwasactuallywhatIhatedaboutmyself.WhatIfeltwasuglywasmyown ugliness. KB:TheletterU AJ:Uterus.Reception,itsaboutbeingopentothecosmos.Theuterusisnotopentothe phallusitisopentoeternity,tothecosmos. KB:Ihadaverydifferentword.Underground AJ:Itisgoingoutsideofyourlimits.Itsnotaboutbeingundertheearth,butaboutunderthe logisticsofsociety.Underthesocietyiswhereyoufindcompletefreedom. KB:V.Ihadthewordviolence.Whatdoesviolencemean? AJ:Realviolenceisopeningthelimitofthemind,theemotionalandsexuallimitsthatbring youtogenerosity.Generosityisviolence. KB:Howso? AJ:Societyisfoundedinegoismandcompetition,sowhenyouhavethegenerositytogive withouttakinganythinginreturn,itisviolent.Forexample,mynextexhibitionwillbefree.I wontearnanything.Inaworldwhereeverythingmustbepaidforlikeprostitution,itsanactof violence.Theangelswhobroughtthetruthwereanactofviolence.Thebigbang:Icannot imagineanythingmoreviolentthanthebigbang! KB:WhataboutW?Women. AJ:ThatstwoVs.Itsspeakingtosymmetry,theexistenceoftheother.Wearenotalone. TheWisthereceptionoftheotherwhoistherealityoftheuniverse.Wearenotthecenter oftheworld.Itisthemirror,theother,the reflection. KB:IcouldnotfindawordfortheletterX AJ:Xisamystery.Itsaninterestingletterbecauseitistwocrosses.Amysterythatyou cannotgoinside. KB:ForYIhadyouth. AJ:Yourlifeisacontinualactofchoices.Theleftandtherightarethesameroutegoodand badanduglyandbeautifulareallthesameroutes,becauseyoucanonlyknowwhatoneis

www.flashartonline.com/interno.php?pagina=articolo_det&id_art=931&det=ok&title=ALEJANDRO-J

5/6

1/2/13

ALEJANDRO JODOROWSKY - Article detail - Flash Art

badanduglyandbeautifulareallthesameroutes,becauseyoucanonlyknowwhatoneis withouttheother.Youcanonlyknowwhatpeaceisifyoudonthavewar.Youmustrespect whatyouarebutalsowhatyouarenot. KB:Howimportantisbeingyoung? AJ:Ontheinside,Ihavenotaged.Tobeyoungisacontinualgestation.Thefountainof youth,eternalyouth,isinsideyou.Inthemiddleofyourunconscious,themindisreally young. KB:Isyouthbeauty? AJ:Youthinkbeingyoungistobebeautifultoalwaysbethesame,buttoalwaysbethe sameisugliness.Gettingoldisbeautiful.Afloweropeningisbeautiful,butsoisaflower dying.Inmytherapy,afewofmypatientscalledmewhentheyweredying.Itoldthemthey neededtodiehappy.Someonewhohasrealizedthisisbeautiful. KB:Andwhatabouttherapy?WedidnttalkaboutthatfortheletterT. AJ:Therapyisaboutlearningtoseeandlistentoothers.Thebiggestpartofillnessis becauseofpeoplenotbeinglovedorlistenedto.Everyillnessisjustatheatricalplayfor attention,theneedtobeheard. KB:Sowhataboutconfessingatchurch? AJ:Confessioninfrontofsomeonewhoknowsnothingaboutlifeisnotgood.Areal confessionistostandinthemiddleofyourfamilyandsayyouarehomosexual,nottellinga pedophileinthechurch.TheCatholicreligionisanillness. KB:Ithinkonewordthatismissingisspirituality.Manypeopledontbelieveinreligion anymore AJ:Iusereligionasanexample.Idontneedtobelievenecessarilyinthesacredteachings, butIusethemassymbols. KB:Butisreligionspirituality? AJ:Theuniverseiscreatedbyenergy.Everythingisspiritualitybecauseweagreethatthe mind,heartandbodyareallconnected. KB:Aretherehigherpowers? AJ:No. KB:WhatabouttheletterGguru?Areyouaguru? AJ:No,no,no.Aguruisajobforalazypersonwhodoesnothingandispaidtosell emptiness. B:OurlastwordisZen. AJ:Zenhasnoendandnobeginning.Maninthepresenthasnobeginningorend.Afeelingof existencewithoutbeingtiedtoanything. KB:Whataboutlove? AJ:Loveiswhenyoufindtheotherwhoforyouisthemiddleofthewholeuniverse.Thatis love. KB:Yousaidbeforethatapriestissomeonewhoknowsnothingaboutlife,andagurusells nothingness.Whatisanartistforyou? AJ:Anartistisanopendoorwherethewindisabletoblowthrough. KlausBiesenbachisDirectorofMoMAPS1. AlejandroJodorowskywasborninIquique,Chile,in1929.HelivesandworksinParis. Subscriptionfor6issuesofFlashArtInternational OrderayearlysubscriptiontoFlashArtInternationalasagift. Youmaywriteashortmessagesendingyourbestwishestoafriendorrelativewho willreceivesixissuesofthemostuptodateandextensivecoverageofglobal contemporaryart. Buyitonline

GiancarloPolitiEditoreviaCarloFarini,6820159MilanoP.IVA09429200158Tel.02.6887341Fax02.66801290info@flashartonline.com Credits

www.flashartonline.com/interno.php?pagina=articolo_det&id_art=931&det=ok&title=ALEJANDRO-J

6/6