What is carry over and carry under at the boiler drum?

11 days ago

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StanleyUnfollow Follow Stanley Stanley Dalziel In my 30 years playing around with boilers. US Navy and 2 power plants. I consider boiler carryover to be anything that escapes the boiler except for the dry steam. Water, chemicals, silica, ect. I have never heard of the "carry under" that you refered to. 11 days ago Unlike Like

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DavidUnfollow Follow David David Ripley Right..."Carryover" is a term that relates (usually) moisture "carried over" from the steam drum to the steam piping. 11 days ago Unlike Like

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MahendraUnfollow Follow Mahendra Mahendra Singadia In simpple words carry over means Water entering to the steam and carry under means steam entering with water like in water walls. 11 days ago Unlike Like

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Sandro RichterUnfollow Follow Sandro Richter Sandro Richter Garcia Rodriguez Carryover is a result of the incomplete separation of steam from the steam-water mixture in the boiler drum. Operating a HRSG drum significantly below design pressure is a cause of carryover. For a given steaming/firing rate, the steam flow passages are sized for a specific volumetric flow rate. Reducing the boiler pressure from design results in lower density, more voluminous steam. Consequently, the resulting steam velocity increases. This increased velocity increases the likelihood of entraining boiler water in the steam. So, for the first criteria, the pressure setpoint is based on the pressure necessary to prevent carryover from the HRSG. This pressure is a function of mass flow rate. As mass flow rate out of the drum increases, a higher pressure is required to prevent carryover.

I have never heard of the carry under. 9 days ago Unlike Like

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Hendra DjatiUnfollow Follow Hendra Djati Hendra Djati Perbowo there's no such thing as carry under of boiler carry under. Carryover is water carried over in steam to the turbine. Mr Sandro, but if we could maintain steam temperature will the chances of carry over? 8 days ago Unlike Like

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stevenUnfollow Follow steven steven skomra Ok, if carryover is water in the steam what do you call the foam generated when your TDS is too high? 6 days ago Unlike Like

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Hendra DjatiUnfollow Follow Hendra Djati Hendra Djati Perbowo foaming 6 days ago Unlike Like

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viswanathanUnfollow Follow viswanathan viswanathan govindasamy the feed water and the water separated from the steam/water mixture, from the water wall tubes that enter the drum, mix in the drum and is carried down through the pipes (downcomers) to the furnace water wall bottom header. In certain conditions, there is vortex formation at the entry to the downcomer pipes. due to this vortex, some steam is also getting into the downcomer along with the water. This phenomena is termed 'carry under'. Carry under is undesirable since affects circulation through the furnace tubes and can cause instability in the flow in some installations. vortex breakers are added at the inlet of downcomer to avoid the occurrance. This term is familiar to Boiler designers and consultants. However, it is not very commonly experienced and as it is not easy to notice the effect even if present. 4 days ago Unlike Like

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MahendraUnfollow Follow Mahendra Mahendra Singadia Thanke you very much sir .@ Mr viswanathan. 4 days ago Unlike Like

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viswanathanUnfollow Follow viswanathan viswanathan govindasamy Dear Mr. Singadia thanks and welcome 4 days ago Unlike Like

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UdhayakumarUnfollow Follow Udhayakumar Udhayakumar Venkataraman Nice learning , has fittest meaning . Vortex breaker is present , now related to Carry under... Good. 4 days ago Unlike Like

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VIRGILIOUnfollow Follow VIRGILIO VIRGILIO ABRIL Carry over on boiler is simply the water steam incomplete separation, never heard carry under or don't exist on boiler language. 4 days ago Unlike Like

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nageswara raoUnfollow Follow nageswara rao nageswara rao samayam uma venkata dear viswanathan, thanks for your valuble information. This is first time i heared about this term. 3 days ago Unlike Like

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viswanathanUnfollow Follow viswanathan viswanathan govindasamy Dear Mr. Nageswara rao samayam uma venkata

thanks

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RajkumarUnfollow Follow Rajkumar Rajkumar renganathan Nice Mr.Viswanathan! I think this carry over and carry under accour in relation with boiler swelling (carry over) boiler shrinking(carry under). Am I correct? 2 days ago Unlike Like

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ThamUnfollow Follow Tham Tham Chelvan Carryover & Carry under are terms used in the boiler circulation system, and most of the boiler designers know about this. For Carry over all of the above discussions cover enough to explain its definition. Let me add few more points for Carry under, its related items for the circulatioin system. Definition of Carryunder: Steam mixed in with the water being returned to the drum by the steam separators. Normally, depending on the OEM of the boiler system, depending on the efficiency of the steam separators, it ranges between 0-15%. Definition of Subcooling: The difference in temperature between the water in the downcomer and the saturation temperature. The 0F sub cooling implies saturated conditions and this is preferred for normal operation. If steam is present in the downcomer it is known as entrainment. Entrainment can be due to a steaming economizer or more commonly, excessive carryunder. For better tube protection, zero excessive carryunder is desired. Depending on which OEM designed the boiler system and the efficiency of the steam separators, the maximum allowable excessive

carryunder could be from zero to few %, so that the total carryunder is NOT greater than 15%. Carryunder greater than 15% will have localized tube heating problems due to film boiling in tubes. Excessive steaming and thus the excessive carryunder will lead to tube over heating. For a good circulation and tube protection, nucleate boiling is preferred and film boiling should be avoided. The cause of the departure from nucleate boiling (DNB) is influenced by geometrical and operational factors. Geometrical factors include tube ID, wall construction (membrane wall, tube spacing, tube screen), internal surface condition (smooth tubes, rifled tubes, deposits etc.) and the tube position (vertical, inclined, curved). Operational factors include pressure, local quality (% of steam by weight) or subcooling, mass velocity, heat flux, water chemistry, etc. High exit quality in smooth tube walls at high-pressure operation cannot be permitted, because of the danger of DNB. Vortex breakers at the entry of the downcomer as Mr. Viswanathen poited out are to minimize the carry under. 1 day ago Unlike Like

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MahendraUnfollow Follow Mahendra Mahendra Singadia Thanke you sir, 1 day ago Unlike Like

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ChrisUnfollow Follow Chris Chris Comi Regarding earlier comment about foaming - foaming is a separate problem with different causes and corrective actionb, but it can also lead to carryover. 1 day ago Unlike Like

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Hendra DjatiUnfollow Follow Hendra Djati Hendra Djati Perbowo as a result of deviating (hunting) drum level 1 day ago Unlike Like

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MichaelUnfollow Follow Michael Michael Spangle With regard to the term carryunder, do a Google search for the following: nureg/ia-0224 - NRC There are several references to that term. Also, the following document references the same condition: Influence of heat transport, deposits and condensor leakages upon corrosion in steam generators W. M. M. Huijbregts* , J.H.N. Jelgersma* and A. Snel* VGB Kraftwerkstechnik 55, 1, Jan. 1975, pp. 26/39. * N,V. KEMA (joint laboratories electric utilities in The Netherlands) Utrechtseweg 310, Anhelm

Boiler Operation Engineering, Questions and Answers, by P. Chattopadhyay would also be a good reference. In simple terms, carryover is when the water level gets high enough, or the steam/water separation is incomplete enough, that water droplets wind up making their way to the turbine. Carryunder is the condition where the water level drops low enough that steam winds up going places, such as the downcomers, that you don't want it to go. (Of course, carryunder should never be confused with Carry Underwood.) 1 day ago Unlike Like

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ThamUnfollow Follow Tham Tham Chelvan Let me add some additional points to the Carry over. The total drum moisture carryover as sampled by steam samplers is composed of two components. That is Mechanical Carryover and Vaporous Carryover. At the 0-100 PSIA drum pressure the vaporous carryover is negligible, based on Henry's Law's (Concentration of Sodium in Vapor phase = K x Concentration of recirculated water in drum). K is the distribution coefficient which is a function of drum pressure and concentration of solids in the steam, and at the low drum pressure it is in the order of 10^(-5) %. So, the total carry over is equal to mechanical carry over, and normally for HRSGs, the carry over is referred to mechanical carry over. The mechanical carryover is defined as the liquid entrainment as a percent of the steam mass flow for each drum. American Boiler Manufacturers Association (ABMA) has an allowable mechanical carry over limit for various drum pressures. For a drum operating pressure range of 0-100 psig, the allowable mechanical carryover is about 0.03%. The normal way of determining that there is a mechanical carry over is by the measurement of Sodium concentration in the steam. During normal operation if the steam quality has a less than 2 ppb sodium, then the mechanical carry over is within acceptable limits. If the Sodium concentration in steam goes beyond 2 ppb, it should give some alarm, and beyond say typical design limit of 5 ppb, it should alert for some

remedial action such as all volatile treatment/phosphate treatment actions to bring the water/steam quality within allowable limits. 1 day ago Unlike Like

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ThamUnfollow Follow Tham Tham Chelvan The ABMA's allowable mechanical carry over limit for 100 to 1000 psig, the allowable mechanical carryover increases in steps of 0.01-0.015% for every 100 -150 psig increase upto 0.1% total at 1000 psig. For 1000 to 1800 psig drum pressure, the allowable mechanical carryover is about 0.1%; For 1800 to 2600 psig, the allowable mechanical carryover is about 0.2%; For 2600 to 2900 psig, the allowable mechanical carryover is about 0.34%; 1 day ago Unlike Like

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vijayUnfollow Follow vijay vijay patil boiler drum carry over means flooding of drum and water goes in HPT turbine ,and carry under means low water level in drum which causing starvation of boiler tube .. 5 hours ago Unlike Like

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Syed AqeelUnfollow Follow Syed Aqeel Syed Aqeel Ahmed Solid matter not originally contained in the steam generator by the boiler is transferred from the boiler water to the steam due to various causes. This phenomena is called carry over, which are generally caused by the following factor. 1. Excess concentration of the boiler water contamination of oil effects 2. Dissolution of silica to steam. 3. Boiler operation at high water level and rapid increase of load. 4. Poor condition of the steam generation. The major cause of carry over in the high medium pressure boiler is the fact that salts and metal oxides in the boiler water dissolved in the steam. The carry over due to transfer of the boiler water to the steam live seldom occurs. The solubility of salts and metal oxides in the boiler water becomes higher with the increase of the steam pressure and temperature, the carry over of silica is a primary problem. 5 hours ago