MFR: State Dept Meeting on Team 2 Canada Trip, 5 Sep 03

Commission Staff: Phillip Zelikow, Chris Kojm, Mike Hurley, Lorry Fenner

Attending: State Mr Steve Fox, POC for all trips, DoD POC Pat Downes, DoJ Dan
Levin, OSD Policy POC, Colin Newman WH Counsel, Tim ? Germany Desk, Velia De
Pirro Canadian Affairs, and her deputy William McCulla (Pol/CT, Border Security,
Tricia Bacon State CT, ? Intel and Threat Analysis, Dip Security for W Europe, and
others. The Agency Rep could not attend

Substance: We addressed Canada first as a good model for the rest and also so I could
leave before they talked about Phillip's trip.

Mr Fox asked for us to address more of what^ we wanted to do - they asked our purpose.
Chris turned it over to me. I noted that we were the Intelligence Team and would team
with Teams 3, 5, and 6. We were looking at intel collection, analysis and
management/oversight. We wanted to talk with the Ambassador and his team about
collection and relationships - past, present and future. We want to talk with our
Canadian counterparts primarily about present and future. Areas of interest for them
would be transnational cooperation, domestic and foreign intelligence, law enforcement
and intelligence and relations between federal-provincial-and local organizations.

Mr Fox clarified that we wanted to talk about CT primarily and Phillip and I affirmed
that. Ms DePirro (she is traveling soon and asked that we work with her second) and Mr
McCalla said the DCM welcomes our visit but voiced a couple concerns - primarily it
was that while the country team can be at our disposal they can't really ask the senior
levels of the Canadian Government to make themselves available for 3-4 hours and
advised that we should tell them we want to make "courtesy calls and exchange views"
for whatever time they have available. I said of course, we wouldn't demand a certain
amount of their time and were not deposing them or anything. Phillip clarified that these
were primarily background briefings.

They also asked how much we would emphasize 9/11 with our Canadian counterparts. I
clarified that for the Canadians we were more interested in present and future and both
our cooperation with them and their models.

They also wanted to make sure we knew that their government might be changing in the
next few months and also that some people in jobs now weren't in them on 9/11.

They also said the DCM told them the Ambassador is out of the country now and would
return the night of the 30th for one day and depart again and they asked if we were
flexible. I responded that if the Ambassador was comfortable with us dealing with the
DCM and team without him that was fine, but otherwise we would be flexible, perhaps
he could meet with us on the morning of the 1st before we departed.
Mr Levin asked if we would be recording and I said no. Phillip reemphasized that this
was more on background.

Mr McCalla asked if anything the Canadians said would be used in the report. I turned it
over to Phillip. He said if it was of use it would be used. Mr Fox asked if they'd get a
review first. Phillip said the USG would get a review for national security issues and
State would have to work with them. Mr Fox clarified that State would have an
opportunity if it needed to to withhold anything that they could defend as harmful to
national security. Mr McCalla asked if the Canadians would get a review for national
security reasons and Phillip said no. He said no foreign governments would be offered a
review.

Mr Fox also clarified that if we wanted to talk about INR collection, analysis and warning
that we would also be talking to INR in DC, and I said of course and he could help us
with that.

Mr Fox also noted that the more information we could provide about the numbers of
people we would be bringing and what we wanted the country teams and foreigners to
address the better.

He asked when we could give him the specific people we wanted to talk to and I said
within the next couple of days.

Ms DePirro asked us to also identify any other embassy support we would need - an
office, drivers, etc. I said I anticipated it would be minimal.

Mr Fox asked for a fund cite for the "overtime", drivers etc. Chris said he would provide
that.

Afterward: I left the meeting with Mr McCalla and Ms DePirro and we talked more in
the hallway. I reemphasized that we understood we couldn't make demands on the
Canadians and asked them to reassure the country team that this was low-threat and not
inquisitorial. Mr McCalla said we would probably get pretty high-level access because
the Canadians are interested and think this is important. They asked if they could start
talking to people informally to get calendars reserved and I asked them to please do so.
They also asked if they wanted to nominate other people for us to talk to if that was ok, or
if the principals weren't available whether they could suggest alternatives and I said by
all means (we will want to make sure that if we go too far down the chain we can tell
them it's not useful for us to meet with a particular person). I asked for as much help and
advice as they could provide. I gave them my email and phone and Kevin's name as
team leader.

I will give Mr McCalla's and Mr Fox's business cards to Melissa for our rolodex.

Mr William McCalla, 202-647-2244, McCullaWL2@state.gov

Mr Stephen Fox, 202-647-2155, foxsr@state.gov
Recommended actions:
1. Decide on names or positions of the people we want to meet with (our current
list? And political and economic counselors?) and any support we will need from
the embassy by Monday afternoon. Also nail down which of us is going.

2. I will contact Mr Fox and Mr McCalla on Tuesday with this information and find
out if our dates will work. I will see whether they need anything further on
purpose/plans than what we already discussed. I will also get any of their other
recommendations.
a. Melissa can then start planning travel.

3. Decide who else we have to inform/contact/keep in the loop -j |

I )
4. With your approval I will draft a briefing/interview request for State/INR for Mr
Fox. I

9/11 Closed by Statute

 WITH DRAWAL NOTICE

RG: 148
Box: 00001 Folder: 0001 Document: 1
Series: Team 2 Files

Copies: 1 Pages: 1

ACCESS RESTRICTED

The item identified below has been withdrawn from this file:

Folder Title: Canada Trip [2 of 3]

Document Date: 09-05-2003
Document Type: List
Special Media:
From:
To:

Subject: List of attendees at interagency meeting with Comm

ission staff

In the review of this file this item was removed because access to it is
restricted. Restrictions on records in the National Archives are stated in
general and specific record group restriction statements which are available
for examination.

NND: 361
Withdrawn: 08-26-2008 by: L

RETRIEVAL*: 361 00001 0001 1

System DocID: 4100