Mengi V Hermitage 2102 Trial Transcript

MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 586]
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IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION
Claim No: HQ10D04585
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Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, London WC2A 2LL Monday, 12th November 2012 Before: MR. JUSTICE BEAN
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BETWEEN:
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REGINALD MENGI Claimant -andSARAH HERMITAGE Defendant ----------
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(Transcript of the Stenograph/Shorthand Notes of Marten Walsh Cherer Ltd., 1st Floor, Quality House, 6-9 Quality Court, Chancery Lane, London WC2A 1HP. Telephone No: 020 7067 2900. email - info@martenwalshcherer.com) ---------MR. RICHARD RAMPTON QC and MR. AIDAN EARDLEY (instructed by Whitman Breed) appeared for the Claimant.
MR. JAMES PRICE QC and MR. JONATHAN BARNES (instructed by Carter-Ruck) appeared for the Defendant. ---------PROCEEDINGS EVIDENCE DAY 5 24 ---------25 ALL TRANSCRIPTS PREPARED WITHOUT CASE DOCUMENTS
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MIDDLETON-PRICE our staff...." that is Mr. Kimara, "...in a conversation which was tape recorded on 2nd December 2012....", that date is clearly wrong. Should that be 2007? A. It if should be 2007. Q. Then if you go to paragraph 80, you are dealing there with the your hearing from Able Ngoya about the Radio 1 broadcast and you give the date there of between the 8th and 10th February 2010. Is that date right? A. No, my Lord, it was not in February, it was in fact in January. Q. You have subsequently discovered that by retrieving the e-mail or your wife retrieved the e-mail from Mr. Ngoya? A. Correct, my Lord. Q. Just a few matters that, with his Lordship's permission, I will cover with you. Did your experiences in Tanzania have any effect on your health after you left? A. Yes, my Lord, they did. Q. Just tell my Lord briefly about that. A. I suffered a severe breakdown, not immediately after leaving Tanzania, but within eight months of leaving Tanzania and I had to come back to the UK for medical treatment. Q. How long did that breakdown last? A. A year, a good year. Q. However, you have made a full recovery, have you?
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1 2 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord before we begin, can I hand in a copy of 3 Mr. Lema -- he is the IT person -- to go in your Lordship's
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1 MIDDLETON-PRICE 2 A. I believe I have, my Lord, yes. 3 Q. Just another topic: the publications that appeared in 4 Mr. Mengi's newspapers, what effect, if any, do you consider 5 that that had on Benjamin Mengi's campaign against you? 6 A. My Lord, those articles that were published in the claimant's 7 newspapers, not only were they severely shocking and terribly 8 upsetting to me, but I had an incredible, incredible staff 9 working for me at the time and the effect it had had on them 10 was almost tangible. They were highly upset about it. They 11 were highly stressed that I, as a visitor to their country, 12 should be treated in such a manner. 13 On top of that, my Lord, I believe then I think it is 14 true to say that the name of Mengi is feared in Tanzania, so 15 if a name such as that appears in the newspaper, everybody is 16 going to take note of what it is being written. The result of 17 that was that not only was it affecting my staff, my friends, 18 but also the business that I was trying to conduct. 19 I believe it contributed to the fact that it was totally 20 impossible for me to gain credit of any form in Tanzania; not 21 only from banks, but from suppliers. Our fertiliser, our 22 chemical suppliers refused point-blank because they knew the 23 name of Mengi and what was being written in the newspapers 24 about me. 25 That, in a nutshell, my Lord, is how I believe those
file at 10a? 5 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I have one already. 6 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, this is paginated.
4 7 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: All right. I will take that. 8 MR. PRICE: My Lord, there is now an agreed form of order that 9 10
your Lordship made on the first day of the trial. Would you
like me to hand that in now or later on? 11 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, why not now? 12 MR. PRICE: I think there are three copies there. I do not quite 13 know why, but that seems to be the right way of doing it, so I
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am told. I will call Mr. Middleton. DAVID STEWART MIDDLETON, SWORN
EXAMINED BY MR. PRICE 17 Q. Could you take file 2, Mr. Middleton, and go to tab 12? Is 18 that your correct address?
19 A. Yes, my Lord. 20 Q. Is that your signed witness statement? 21 A. Yes, it is, my Lord. 22 Q. Just two matters I draw your attention to: if you go to 23 paragraph 57, you are dealing there with an article that was 24 25
published in The African on 30th January 2006. If you go over the page to the top of the page, "In private, he admitted to
[1] (Pages 584 to 587)

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MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 588]
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MIDDLETON-PRICE articles, those highly, highly upsetting articles affected what we were trying to do in Tanzania. about with Mr. Pocock in December 2005. That is now seven years ago. How good or bad is your recollection of that meeting now? bad.
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4 Q. Then I will ask you about the meeting that my Lord has heard
8 A. My Lord, I cannot say that it is good, I cannot say that it is 10 Q. However, you have some recollection of it? 11 A. I certainly do, my Lord. 12 Q. Just quite summarily, in your own words, tell my Lord what you 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
MIDDLETON-PRICE sort out the case, the court case and he would look after the costs, the legal costs pertaining to that case and all he wanted from me (and I remember this distinctly, my Lord, because we were growing vegetables for export), he said, "All I want was a good meal when I come to the farm with your fresh vegetables in return." In a nutshell, my Lord, that was what I recall.
recall of that meeting? informed me that the claimant wished to meet us together to discuss the dispute that his brother had with me. I duly went with the High Commissioner to the claimant's house. It was on 13th December 2005, but at exactly what time I cannot recall, sir. After commiserating with the claimant on the loss of his son, he asked me what the problem was that his brother had with me. I made it very clear to the claimant that I had come to Tanzania to settle. I am an African by birth. I wished to put roots down in Africa again. I had the opportunity to do so and I wished to live a peaceful and productive life and all
14 A. My Lord, the High Commissioner, Mr. Pocock, contacted me and
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MIDDLETON-PRICE I was getting instead from his brother was harassment, court cases which had no founding whatsoever, I had been arrested by the police and I believed he was having defamatory articles published against me in his brother's media. The claimant asked what could he do about it and my request to the claimant was, "Please, could you, as an elder brother, speak to your brother and sort him out in terms of his harassment, speak to him about the frivolous court case, put a stop to the use of his media in printing defamatory articles and comments about myself." I also asked him to assist us in getting our lease registered so that we can get on with our business in Tanzania. My Lord, his response was that he would certainly speak to his brother about the harassment and, also, the court cases, or the court case at that time. He would put a stop to the use or to the defamatory articles that were appearing in his press, which he believed was only right because he was the one, he was also suffering badly by the fact that the Mengi name was being made so public in Tanzania. He also said he would assist in getting our lease registered. We then left or departed from the room, the sitting room, the lounge/reception room of Mr. Mengi and, as we were leaving, I was shaking hands with the claimant and when I shook hands with him, he distinctly said to me that he would
MIDDLETON CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. RAMPTON
3 Q. There was quite a lot of detail in that, Mr. Middleton, which 4 is neither in your witness statement, nor put to Mr. Mengi 5 6
when he gave evidence, is there not? You were in court when
Mr. Mengi gave evidence? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. There was no mention, when he gave evidence, of a conversation 9 about eating good food at the farm when he came to visit you?
10 A. No. 11 Q. There is nothing in your witness statement about it, is there? 12 A. I think there is, my Lord. 13 Q. There is. I cannot prove a negative. Would you show it to 14 me, where it is. You certainly mentioned a statement, an 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
alleged statement by Mr. Mengi on the way out that he would pay the costs of the court case, but no more than that. If you look at paragraph 47. I am sorry, it is my fault entirely, Mr. Middleton, for not reading it properly. It is there, you are quite right. You had known Mr. Mengi a little bit before this meeting, had you not?
22 A. I had met him on one occasion, my Lord. 23 Q. One occasion? 24 A. One occasion. 25 Q. You had been to his son's funeral in Moshi, had you not?
[2] (Pages 588 to 591)

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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON A. Yes, my Lord. 3 Q. This is not in any sense a hostile question: could you tell 4 his Lordship why you went to the funeral? 5 A. As a matter of respect and on the persuasion of my staff. 6 They felt it would be good, as a diplomatic move, to show my 7 respects. 8 Q. To show your respects to the brother of the man with whom you 9 were having a dispute? 10 A. Yes, my Lord. 11 Q. At the beginning of October 2005? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. You had, by this time, fully engaged Mr. Pocock, the 14 High Commissioner, in this matter, had you not? 15 A. Yes, my Lord. 16 Q. You had written to him and he had written letters on your 17 behalf, had he not? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Would you take a look, please, at paragraph 39 of your witness 20 statement where you say, in summary, that Mr. Pocock, or 21 Dr. Pocock as I think he actually is, had written a letter on 22 8th December 2005 to the Director of Investment Promotion at 23 the Tanzania Investment Centre specifically referring to the 24 damaging effect of the IPP and Nipashe articles about your 25 arrest.
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON intervention by the TIC manager in Moshi, is it not? A. Yes. Q. Do you agree then that paragraph 39 of your witness statement is not entirely accurate? A. My Lord, it is not accurate in that it does not mention the fact that Mr. Pocock has brought up the false arrest to the head of TIC as well, but the false arrest surely would have been just as important to be brought to the attention of the head of TIC. first paragraph of it says, "I enclose a translation of the Nipashe article and a copy of the Guardian one." Lordship the reference, I hope.
11 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Do we have the enclosures to this letter? The
14 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, they are in the file. I can give your 16 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. 17 MR. RAMPTON: It is in file 3, I think. 18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Right. 19 MR. PRICE: Page 5. 20 MR. RAMPTON: That is the Guardian, but not Nipashe. Never mind. 21
It is page 5.
22 MR. PRICE: Also, page 6. The last paragraph of page 6. 23 MR. RAMPTON: I am sorry, I am confused, I am afraid, by that 24 25
intervention. The letter from Dr. Pocock refers to articles of the 7th and 8th December and page 6 is an article of
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. It is not entirely an accurate account of the letter, is it, 4 that, Mr. Middleton? The letter is in the file. There is a
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON 3rd January.
3 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Well, I do not have the dates in mine. 4 MR. RAMPTON: No, I have. 5 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: You are right, Mr. Rampton. I have read page 5 6 8 9 10 11 12
file and you might like to have a look at it. It is file 5.2 at page 231, behind divider D. Would you like to read? I will not read it out in court, as everybody has a copy. Could you read it carefully to yourself and tell me when you have got to the end, please. (Pause)
anyway. Thank you. meeting on 13th December was not the first occasion on which Mr. Mengi had, as it were, intervened in your dispute, or tried to intervene in your dispute with his brother, Benjamin, in such a way as to try and resolve it? That was not the first occasion, was it?
7 MR. RAMPTON: Mr. Middleton, it is the case, is it not, that the
10 A. Yes, I have read it, my Lord. 11 Q. There is a mention at the top of the second page of the 12 quality of the articles. In the first and second lines you 13 14
say that the details of your arrest were inaccurately recorded
13 A. Directly, it was the first occasion. 14 Q. Perhaps you would like to turn in that file, since you have it 15 16
in the two articles, do you not? 15 A. Sorry, can you repeat the question? 16 Q. Yes, I will, certainly. At the top of the second page, which 17 in our file is 232, you said the details given in the articles
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out, to page 200. Go back a little bit in the file. Have you got it?
17 A. Yes. 18 Q. That is a letter written, I think, by you, is it not, to a 19
of your arrest were inaccurately recorded.
19 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: What Dr. Pocock said. 20 MR. RAMPTON: This is what Dr. Pocock said. I am so sorry, yes, 21 it is Dr. Pocock. Quite right, it is Dr. Pocock's 22
Dr. Kimaro? Yes?
20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Dated 23rd July 2005. You, I think, had had discussions with 22
letter -- inaccurately recorded in the articles. Yes?
Dr. Kimaro about the possibility of resolving this dispute?
23 A. Yes. 24 Q. This is not a letter by Dr. Pocock about the damaging effect 25 of the coverage; this is a letter about an objectionable
23 A. Correct. 24 Q. In Dar es Salaam? 25 A. Correct.
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON Q. You see the second paragraph, "Last night...." that is 22nd July, "...I received a telephone call from Mr. Reginald Mengi. I am not sure whether he had spoken to you since we met on the 18th because Reginald informed me...." You use his first name. You know him well enough to use his first name? A. Everybody referred to him with his first name. Q. "...informed me that he had asked you to try and find a solution to the current situation between myself and his brother." I put my earlier question again: did Mr. Mengi intervene with a view to trying to reach a resolution of your dispute with his brother? A. My Lord, Dr. Kimaro I was introduced to by, as I say in my witness statement, Mital Shah. I met him before the claimant contacted me, so as far as I am concerned it was not a direct approach to assist. I had already contacted and discussed the matter with Dr. Kimaro when the claimant contacted me. Q. You go on, "He also asked me to try and sit with his brother and work out our differences." Yes? A. Yes. Q. This was a well-intentioned attempt by Mr. Reginald Mengi to reach a mediation of your dispute with his brother, was it not? A. Yes.
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON had actually agreed, firstly, to stop the use of his media in printing defamatory articles against us; secondly, he had agreed to speak to his brother about the harassment and the third thing was he said he would assist us on registration of the lease and then I told her that on leaving the meeting, as we were leaving the meeting, the claimant had said that he would speak to his brother and sort out the court case and do not worry about the legal costs. general sense, the question of defamatory articles in Mr. Mengi's newspapers, that he had said that he could not be held responsible for them because he was not the editor or words to that effect? witness statement, I think what he said ----
10 Q. You also told her, did you not, that when you had raised, in 11 12 13 14
15 A. My Lord, I think what he said, if I can just go back to my 16 17 Q. Paragraph 43. 18 A. What he said was that he could not be responsible for, he did 19
not know everything that was printed in his newspapers.
20 Q. That is right and he could not be held responsible for it? 21 A. No, my Lord, I do not recall those words. 22 Q. This is what you have written here. 23 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Are we on what you said at the meeting or on 24
what you told your wife in the phone call?
25 MR. RAMPTON: No, my Lord, we are on what was said at the meeting.
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON cordial?
2 Q. Yes. Was that telephone call of Mr. Mengi in July of 2005 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Yes. As far as you knew, Mr. Reginald Mengi was a man of good 6 8 10 11 12
will? what was appearing in his press. statement -- if you want to keep it open, it is as well to do so in case an I get it wrong again -- you went to the meeting, you tell us, in paragraph 40, against the wishes of your wife?
7 A. At that time, I had no reason to disbelieve it, apart from 9 Q. You went to the meeting, you tell us in your witness
13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Why was it that she was reluctant for you to go to the 15 17 19 20 22 23
meeting? meeting. what it was you told your wife when you got back from the meeting? meeting when I got back; I, in fact, phoned my wife from Dar es Salaam.
16 A. As she felt that nothing would be achieved by attending such a 18 Q. Will you please tell us now, tell his Lordship now, precisely
21 A. My Lord, I did not give the news of or the results of the
24 Q. Yes. 25 A. What I told her was that I was flabbergasted, but the claimant
MIDDLETON - RAMPTON I will show Mr. Middleton, in a moment, what his wife reported him as having told her. We are looking now at your account of the meeting at paragraph 43? A. Yes, my Lord, he did say that, obviously. Q. Would you like to see how that came out in your wife's words some, what is it, four and a bit years later? There is a file there, I hope, with 1.2 on it. Do you have that? A. File 1. 2? Q. File 1. 2, yes, that is right, Mr. Middleton. In the first section, please turn to page 81. This is a posting on your wife's website, Mr. Middleton, which we believe (and I do not think it is contentious), she set up in May 2009 when you came back to this country. Is that right? A. Yes. Q. Did you read her -- I do not know, I think they are called blogs -- did you read the postings on this website, as they came out? A. Not all of them, my Lord. Q. No. If you look at the entry for 12th March 2010, you see this -- it is very difficult to read in my copy, but I hope you can follow it. It is headed, "Reginald Mengi denies responsibility for IPP media content." Then, "In late 2005, Mr. Reginald Mengi expressed his concerns to the British government that the Silverdale case was damaging his own
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON business interests and reputation." Is that quite accurate, do you think, Mr. Middleton? A. Sorry, my Lord, can you just go through that again, please? Q. I am sorry, I just read the first sentence. A. What date, please? Q. 12th March 2010. A. Okay. Q. It is the middle of page 81. A. Okay. Q. The first sentence. The heading is "Reginald Mengi denies responsibility for IPP media content." Then, "In late 2005, Mr. Reginald Mengi expressed his concerns to the British government that the Silverdale case was damaging his own business interests and reputation." Is that strictly accurate, Mr. Middleton? A. Yes. Q. When did he say that? A. At that meeting. Q. The purpose of the meeting, Mr. Middleton, was not so as to, as it were, save the Mengi reputation; the purpose of the meeting was to try and find a way of resolving your dispute with Mr. Benjamin Mengi, was it not? A. My Lord, the claimant in his opening remarks at that meeting told me that the dispute that his brother had with me was
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON Or did you say that? He said it. He does not say that in his witness statement either, does it? No. "And inaccurate reports then in IPP Media Newspapers. Mr. Mengi stated that he was not aware of the defamatory publications and that as Chief Executive Officer of IPP Media, ie. not the editor, he could not be held responsible for any publications made by IPP media." That is a report by your wife. She was not at the meeting; she must have got that from you, must she not? A. Yes. Q. So he did say that, did he not? A. Yes. Q. Thank you. How, then, did it come about, his having said that, that he then made a promise to put a stop, to interfere and put a stop to the coverage? A. My Lord, I am only, I cannot say why he said it or why he made that undertaking, but I can only assume that he was genuinely trying to put a stop to the use of his name or the appearance of his name in his media. It was doing nobody any good whatsoever because what was being stated in the media was obviously very derogatory, as far as I am concerned, and was being instigated by his brother. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON 2 Q. Can you think of any reason, Mr. Middleton -- you may not be 3 able to and if you cannot, you must say so. Mr. Price put a
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON damaging his interests. It was not good for his name because the Mengi name was becoming or being made very public. Q. You have read the witness statement of Dr. Pocock, I assume, have you? A. Briefly, yes, my Lord. Q. He does not say anything about that, does he? A. No. Q. Do you agree with me that the principal purpose of the meeting -- I quite accept that you mentioned articles in the newspapers that you regarded as defamatory and damaging, but the principal purpose of the meeting was to try to find a resolution of the dispute, was it not? A. The principal objective of the meeting was to see if there was a way of resolving the issue, but the issues definitely involved this business of defamation articles, defamatory articles. Q. Sorry, that was also a purpose of the meeting? A. Involved in. Q. I see. Can we just stay then with page 81, at the moment? "The British High Commissioner in Tanzania at the time, Mr. Andrew Pocock, stated that he was concerned about the reputation of British investors, Stewart Middleton and Sarah Hermitage." Did Mr. Pocock say that? A. Yes.
possible reason to Mr. Mengi, which I may have to come back to, but can you think of any reason, Mr. Middleton, why Mr. Reginald Mengi should have made a promise -- indeed, more
than one promise -- of which he had no intention of keeping? 8 A. Can you just repeat that question, please? 9 Q. Yes, I will put it another way: as you know, Mr. Middleton, 10 even if you did not at the time, on her web site and in her
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correspondence, your wife accuses Mr. Reginald Mengi of having broken his premises and of having lied. Yes?
13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Can you think of any reason why Mr. Reginald Mengi should 15 make promises which he would have no intention of keeping?
Why he should have lied about this? 17 A. My Lord, I think if we look at what happened after the meeting 18 we had with the claimant in December 2005, the entire campaign
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against me, in terms of the harassment, the defamation, the trumped up charges, everything escalated rapidly and, my Lord, I believe it was because I did not accept the demands that were made by the claimant's brother, which were relayed to me
in a letter soon after that meeting. 24 Q. We will look at that letter shortly, Mr. Middleton. 25 A. That, my Lord, is why I believe the claimant felt that I had
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON insulted him and I had insulted his brother and he was not going to stand by and he did not stand by any of the promises that he made to myself. Q. Simply because you would not meet the terms which he had conveyed to you after a preliminary discussion with his brother. Is that your suggestion? A. Yes. Q. I see. He had nothing to gain by making promises, false promises, did he? He would just make matters worse, would he not? A. No, he ---Q. Mr. Reginald Mengi had nothing to gain by making false promises. A. At the time he that he made those promises he had a lot to gain, my Lord. Q. What did he have to gain? A. Removing his name from the newspapers in those derogatory articles. Q. Mr. Reginald Mengi? A. Yes. The Mengi name. Q. What is there derogatory about Mr. Reginald Mengi in articles about his brother? A. Derogatory articles about myself. Q. Yes. You minded about that?
MIDDLETON - RAMPTON 2 Q. Oh, I see. He wanted to put a stop to the publicity because 3 it was not favourable to him, Reginald Mengi. It was not
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putting him on a pedestal. Is that it? 5 A. Could be. 6 Q. I see. Well now, of course, you understand, I do not probably 7 even have to say it, that your account of what
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Mr. Reginald Mengi said at this meeting is not accepted by me on behalf of Reginald Mengi. You understand that, do you not? A. Yes. Q. The only thing he said was something like, when you were talking about the defamatory articles, "Oh, I will look into it." Is that right? A. That is what he says. Q. It is also what Dr. Pocock says, Mr. Middleton. A. I think he did, yes. Q. Would you like to have a look at Dr. Pocock's statement? It is in volume 2 and it is at, if I am not mistaken, tab 15. Will you turn, please, to the second page? Would you read paragraph 5? You cannot give evidence about paragraph 5 because you are not a party to these conversations, but would you just read paragraph 5 to yourself? (Pause) A. Yes. Q. You have no comment to make about that, I imagine? A. In that paragraph, the only comment I have to make, my Lord,
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON that the Mengi name was being made very, very public at that time. part of your complaint, is it not?
2 A. My Lord, I was worried about it, but the fact of the matter is
5 Q. However, not to the discredit of Mr. Benjamin Mengi. That is 7 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: No. 8 MR. RAMPTON: Sorry? 9 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Not to the discredit of Reginald. 11 12
10 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, nor to the discredit of Benjamin. That is your 10
complaint about the articles; they are all favourable to Benjamin, are they not?
13 A. Yes. 14 Q. So why should Mr. Reginald Mengi mind about that? 15 A. Because I repeat again, my Lord, the Mengi name was in the 16 18 19 20 21 23 24 25
newspapers unnecessarily. appear in the newspapers which are adverse to you and favourable to Mr. Benjamin Mengi. Apart from ordinary humanity, can you think of any reason why Mr. Reginald Mengi should mind about that? Benjamin Mengi he did not get on with; they were always fighting. His name was in the newspapers and, for once, it was not praising himself.
17 Q. I am not sure I am following this, Mr. Middleton. Articles
22 A. My Lord, because as he has stated before, his brother
MIDDLETON - RAMPTON is that Mr. Pocock, when he informed me of the meeting, he told me that Mr. Reginald Mengi had asked for the meeting. Q. That is not how it reads in paragraph 5, is it, Mr. Middleton? A. No. Q. The British High Commission, in the person of the High Commissioner, Mr. Pocock, had been very supportive of you, had he not? A. Yes, he had. Q. He had written a number of letters or at least one letter, certainly, before the meeting -- I think some time in November -- a long letter on your behalf. A. Yes. Q. You knew him well? A. I did not know him well. Only through telephone conversations. I had met him on one occasion before the meeting. Q. He was present, was he not, throughout all -- according to your version of events because, as you know, Mr. Mengi rejects your account of the promise to pay the costs of the Benjamin litigation, but otherwise, apart from that supposed conversation, Mr. Pocock was present throughout the whole of this meeting, was he not? A. Yes. Q. How long did the meeting last?
[6] (Pages 604 to 607)

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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON
MIDDLETON - RAMPTON meeting, Mr. Reginald Mengi was still grieving for his son, was he not?
2 A. I cannot remember exactly how long it lasted, my Lord. 3 Probably, it was about two hours, I suppose. 4 Q. It consisted, for the most part, of your going over the ground 5 in relation to your dispute with brother Benjamin? 6 A. No, the most part of it was spent commiserating with Mr. Mengi 7 on the loss of his son. 8 Q. What, for two hours? 9 A. No. 10 Q. For how long did you commiserate? You had been to the funeral 11 already, had you not? 12 A. Yes, correct. 13 Q. You had actually said some nice words to Mr. Mengi at that 14 funeral? 15 A. No, I did not. 16 Q. You did not speak to him? 17 A. No. 18 Q. So his evidence about that is wrong, is it? 19 A. My Lord, if I can explain what happened at the funeral? The 20 funeral service was held in the church. The remains of the 21 22 23 24 25
2 Q. At the moment, please just answer my question: at that 3 4
5 A. Correct. 6 Q. It was just over two months earlier that he had died? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. Are you saying he was distraught? 9 A. He was visibly upset. 10 Q. Was he coherent? 11 A. Yes. 12 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Rampton, it is a matter for you, but your 13 14
client is distressed by this topic and I cannot see the point of going into it in detail. whether or not Mr. Mengi knew what he was talking about. Was he coherent?
15 MR. RAMPTON: As I want to know whether Mr. Middleton is asserting 16 17
18 A. He was coherent, yes. 19 Q. Thank you. You have got open there, I think, the second page 20
of Mr. Pocock's witness statement, have you not?
deceased were displayed in a coffin up at the head of the church, near the alter, and as a tradition, those guests at the funeral who wished to pay their last respects to the deceased at one stage of the proceedings were allowed to stand up, file and walk up to the coffin, walk around the coffin,
21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Mr. Pocock says that Mr. Mengi was upset, in paragraph 7. 23 24 25
Then he says, "During the meeting, Mr. Mengi and Mr. Middleton had a long conversation during which Mr. Middleton explained he had bought the farm legitimately, but he said that when
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON pay their respects and then return to their seats. If I can describe it in this courthouse, my Lord, the coffin was here, where the claimant is sitting was where he and his family were sitting, there was an aisle up the centre and I was sitting further near the back. When I came away from the coffin, came down to return to my seat, there were at least six people already commiserating with the claimant. I did not have the opportunity to be able to say anything. I proceeded back to my chair. Q. You did not say anything to Mr. Reginald Mengi on that occasion? A. No, my Lord. Q. Did you know who he was? A. Yes. Q. Yes? A. I had met him once before. Q. Yes. Go back to the meeting on 13th December, please, Mr. Middleton. You say that Mr. Mengi was ---A. Sorry, my Lord, where are we now? Q. We are back at the meeting on 13th December. A. File? Q. No, we are not in any file at the moment. I will ask you when I want you to look at a document, Mr. Middleton. A. Okay.
MIDDLETON - RAMPTON Mr. Benjamin Mengi saw how successful it was, he wanted to back. Mr. Middleton said that Mr. Benjamin Mengi was using his influence with the police and the courts to bring pressure and make threats against Mr. Middleton. In response, Mr. Reginald Mengi said that he would talk to his younger brother, Benjamin." That was the bulk of the conversation, was it not, that topic? Is that right? A. Yes, it was, my Lord. Q. Thank you. Then Mr. Pocock goes on, "Regarding the press coverage of Mr. Middleton, I cannot now remember exactly what Mr. Middleton or I said, but I am fairly certain that the issue was raised that the coverage had been unfair and untrue." Mr. Mengi agrees with that; you heard him say that in court. Do you remember, Mr. Middleton? A. Yes. Q. "I do recall Mr. Reginald Mengi saying that he would look into the coverage, but I do not myself remember any undertaking from Mr. Mengi to stop his newspapers referring to the Silverdale case during that meeting." Is Mr. Pocock mistaken? A. Yes, I believe he is. Q. Was he attentive during this meeting, Mr. Pocock? A. Mr. Pocock had said very little during this meeting. Q. Yes, he sat and listened? A. He was writing notes, he was doing something, I am not sure,
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON my Lord. Q. Writing notes? A. Something. Maybe it was the meeting, maybe it was not, I do not know, but he certainly did not have much to say during the discussion. Q. No, he evidently did not make a note that Mr. Mengi had agreed to stop the coverage. A. Well, it certainly was not -- I do not agree with that, my Lord. Q. Do you have your own witness statement still open there or not? A. No. Is that 1.2? Q. Yes. No, no, it is in file 2. You had it open earlier, I know. It is a bigger file. MR. PRICE: It is the same file as the Pocock statement. MR. RAMPTON: I am so sorry, it is the same file, yes, as the Pocock statement. It is tab 12, is it? Thank you. Could you turn to paragraph 46, on page 233, please? Take 45 first because then it gives context for 46. 45 represents your version of what you said. Yes? A. Yes. Q. According to you in 46, Mr. Mengi's response was this: he would speak to his brother about the harassment, he would put a stop to the use of his media as it was publicising the Mengi
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON out his concerns; the trumped up legal case against him and the physical and other intimidation directed towards himself, his wife Sarah and his staff and associates and his inability to register the farm lease, which he has legally obtained and fully paid for." You will notice that that letter says nothing about press coverage so far. He says nothing about your having mentioned the press coverage that you did not like. A. No, it does not. Q. Not because it was not said, but Mr. Pocock does not appear to have thought it very important, does he? A. I do not know, my Lord. I do not know why he omitted it. Q. This paragraph sets out what you said, in summary, does it not? This paragraph of the letter sets out Mr. Pocock's next-day recollection of what you said? A. Yes. Q. Then he goes on, addressing himself to Mr. Mengi, he says, "You made clear your own position. It was possible to resolve the matter. You wanted to see justice done. You supported Stewart's wish legally to register his property. You would try to see whether the legal case might be withdrawn and you would intervene with your brother to see what could be done to ease the situation." Is that a fair summary of what Mr. Reginald Mengi said?
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON 2 A. No. 3 Q. He goes on, "We have both appreciated this. We understand 4 that you cannot guarantee success, but your understanding of
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON name, he would assist in the withdrawal of cases in court -- that must be Mr. Benjamin Mengi's cases, is it? A. Yes. Q. Also, he would assist in the registration in the lease. All of those things were said in the presence of Mr. Pocock, according to you, were they not? A. Yes. Q. Mr. Pocock says nothing of any of that in his witness statement, does he? A. No. Q. Then comes, in 47, the assertion, which is rejected by Mr. Mengi as well, that he said on the way out that he would cover your costs of the dispute with his brother. Have you got file 1.2 there? Yes? A. Yes. Q. Please turn to tab D, at page 196. Have you got that? This is a letter written to Mr. Reginald Mengi the day after the meeting, by Dr. Pocock. A. Yes, yes. Q. It is copied to you, is it? A. Correct. Q. Do you remember reading it at the time? A. Yes. Q. I will start at the second paragraph, if I may? "Stewart set
Stewart's case and willingness to act on his behalf is most welcome. We will no doubt continue to keep in touch on this." If your account of what happened at this meeting is correct, Mr. Middleton, when you received this letter, you must have gone through the roof, metaphorically speaking? A. Yes. Q. Did you lift up the telephone to the High Commission and say to Mr. Pocock, "I am sorry that just isn't a fair account of the meeting? Did you? A. I did not lift it up. I did not phone him immediately on a matter like this from what I can recall. Q. You did not write to him? A. He phoned me. Q. Did you complain that his letter was, to put it bluntly, a half-baked account of the meeting? A. I suggested that he had left out the important parts about the media coverage. Q. Did you write to him in that vain? A. No. Q. Why not? A. Because I had spoken to him about it on the telephone.
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON Q. But it was an important matter for you, was it not? You must have been quite pleased at the outcome of the meeting. You used the word "flabbergasted", I think, at the outcome of the meeting, if your version of it is correct. A. Yes. Q. This letter must have been a huge disappointment to you? A. I was shocked by it, yes. Q. Did you tell Dr. Pocock you were shocked by it? A. In the telephone conversation I let him know and that I thought he had left out one of the major parts of the discussion. Q. Not just one of the major parts, all the major parts, pay your costs, stop the coverage, registered a lease, see to brother Benjamin, that is all missing from this. A. My Lord, he stated that he wished to legally resolve registering the property, see whether the legal case could be withdrawn, and you would intervene with your brother. Q. Yes, this records an expression of goodwill, best endeavours, on the part of Mr. Reginald Mengi, does it not? A. At the time, yes. Q. Yes, it does not record any promises or undertakings, does it? A. No, it does not. Q. Can you think of any reason why Mr. Pocock does not say in his witness statement that he received a telephone call from you
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON Q. Read on for a moment, "In this regard I have had preliminary discussions with Benjamin Mengi who has in principle agreed" and then he sets out, he records what Benjamin Mengi has in principle agreed, and that was not acceptable to you, is that right? A. Correct. Q. Then he says at the end of that page, "An early response to this proposal will be appreciated. May I once again thank you and Steward for your condolences....", so on and so forth. You have a copy of that letter? A. Yes. Q. Did you write to Mr. Mengi and say, "That is not what you said you would do." A. No. Q. Why not? A. Because, quite frankly, my Lord, I was absolutely -- it just proved to me that the whole exercise had been a waste of time. I in fact phoned the claimant in the evening and I think it was two or three days after receiving this letter, and I made it clear to him that obviously he had listened to his brother, he had accepted his brother's terms, he had accepted his brother's explanations, he was not prepared to accept anything from our side, so there was no point in continuing the exercise, the operation.
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON 2 Q. According to your witness statement, you simply telephoned him 3 and said his brother's terms are not acceptable. Is that
1
MIDDLETON - RAMPTON shortly afterwards complaining to high heaven about this letter? A. I have no idea why. Q. I suggest the reason is this letter is accurate and your account of the meeting is not. That is the reason. A. It is not the reason, my Lord. Q. Turn over the page, would you please, to page 197? Here is a from Mr. Reginald to Dr. Pocock, again it is copied to you. Do you remember receiving a copy of this? A. Yes. Q. He says in the second paragraph, "I would like to reiterate my sincere undertaking to do all that is possible and within my power to ensure that justice is done and the matter is concluded amicably. Do you now characterise that as a full statement? A. Now? Q. Yes. A. Yes. Q. Why? A. Because of what happened transpired after the meeting. Q. In what sense? A. As I stated before, the escalation of the campaign against us. Q. The escalation by Benjamin or by the newspapers, or both? A. Both.
right? 5 A. Yes, I did. 6 Q. Did you upbraid him for having broken his promises? 7 A. Did I, sorry?
4 8 Q. Did you criticise him on the telephone for not having kept his 9 word? 10 A. His word in what, please? 11 Q. He had given you a promise, for example, to pay the costs of 12 your litigation. 13 A. As this point of time, sir, there was no -- it had not reached 14 that stage yet. This was three days after the meeting. 15 Q. This letter contains what Mr. Mengi says he will do; yes? 16 A. Which Mr. Mengi? 17 Q. This Mr. Mengi. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. The one sitting in front of me. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. That is it, is it not? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Did you not complain that he had said a whole lot more besides
which is not mentioned in this letter? 25 A. No, as I say, my Lord, at the time when it happened I was
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON completely disgusted with the tone of the letter, the way that this had been approached, and I told the claimant on the telephone that I was not prepared to continue with the discussion. Q. You told his Lordship that you had relayed all this information about what Mr. Mengi had said at the meeting to your wife, by telephone from Dar Es Salaam, is that right? A. On the day of the meeting. Q. Did you show her these two letters from Dr. Pocock and Mr. Reginald Mengi? A. She was at home at the time. She would have seen them, yes. Q. I do not criticise her for this but it is the fact, is it not, Mr. Middleton, she is not slow to put pen to paper when she feels aggrieved about something? A. Very much so. Q. Did she say, "We must write and complain about this both to Mr. Pocock and to Mr. Mengi." A. No. Q. She has, we know, written some letters on your behalf, has she not? A. To whom? Q. We are going to look at them in a moment, to the newspaper, and to Mr. Mengi. A. If it is to the newspapers, yes.
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON "At this meeting Mr. Mengi promised the British Governor that he would address his brother's behaviour and that he would personally pay for our legal costs arising from the vexatious litigation started by his brother. Mr. Mengi did not honour these promises. Apart from diminishing the defamation campaign at IPP Media, publications escalated from this point onwards." This is 6th January 2010. Are you willing to accept that that is the first occasion on which either of you ever mentioned those alleged promises? A. My Lord, yes, I cannot recall when it might have been, whether it was the first time or not. I cannot recall. Q. There is another reference, my Lord, but one need not bother about that at the moment because it comes after this. At the end of 2005, beginning of 2006, did your wife go to England, or not, or have I got the wrong year? No doubt I have. Do you remember? A. At the end of 2005, beginning of 2006? Q. Yes, beginning of 2006. A. Yes, I think she did, if I can remember correctly. Q. Can you turn in file 1.2 to page 199, please? This is a letter written by your wife. She has signed it. It is a letter of complaint to the managing editor of The Guardian newspaper. It apparently did not receive a response so on 25th March 2006, and that was 24th February 2006, it complains
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON 2 Q. Does she write the letters to the authorities or do you do 3 that? There are letters in the file written apparently by you
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON about the article of 19th January. 25th March 2006, page 203. Do you have that? A. Yes. Q. A further letter, this time to Mr. Mengi himself, and I will read the first paragraph, if I may, "I refer you to the enclosed newspaper article ....(reads to the words).... British High Commission in December 2005," which is true as a matter of chronology, or some of them. That letter was written I think, although you signed it, was actually drafted by your wife, is that right? A. Drafted and corrected by me where it was necessary. Q. I am sure you read it and signed it too, have you not? A. Yes. Q. That first paragraph says nothing about any promise in relation to any newspaper articles, does it? A. No. Q. The first time we get that, Mr. Middleton, is on page 205. In the second paragraph, and this is a letter dated 19th April, also I think drafted by your wife and signed by you, although it has a "pp", that is not actually your signature, is that right? A. Correct. Q. The third paragraph says, "You will remember that our meeting called at your request in December 2005 ....(reads to the
to Dr. Pocock and to other people. A. On occasions she has, on occasions it is myself that writes those letters. Q. Did she say, "We must write and complain about this. This does not represent what you told me had been agreed at the meeting." A. As far as I can remember, no, we did not discuss it. Q. You distinctly remember telling her, do you, about the promise to pay the costs and the promise to, as it were, sort out Benjamin Mengi? A. Yes. Q. Do you know or do you accept, and we can all look at it if you wish, that the first time those so-called promises get a mention is in January 2010? Do you know that? A. It might have been, my Lord. Q. We had better look at them. You have file 1.2, have you not? If you turn to page 168, in tab C, this is an email (bottom half of the page). Do you have it? A. Yes. Q. This is an email from your wife to Mr. Zerrik(?) of the World Bank and on the third page of that email, which is page 170 in the file, at the end of the first paragraph she has written,
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON words).... you personally gave an undertaking that they would cease." Now, Mr. Mengi has told us that he underlined that sentence and put those three question marks after that sentence. You heard that evidence? A. Yes. Q. Do you accept that is what he did? A. What? Q. Do you accept that is what he did? A. Underlined it? Q. Yes, and put the question marks? A. I have to, my Lord. Q. Look at the note on the top right-hand corner, will you? This is a note to Mr. Nguma, "Please note one, this is a Guardian Limited matter, two, I did not give the underlined undertaking." Can you suggest why he would have put that if he had given the undertaking, Mr. Middleton? A. He had forgotten. Q. He had forgotten. What I suggest has happened is this, if I may, Mr. Middleton, you told your wife that the meeting had not been a total failure, because even on Mr. Mengi's account it was not, on Mr. Pocock's account it was not, there were signs of hope, were there not, on that account? A. There were signs of hope. Q. In Mr. Pocock's letter, if that is an accurate account of the
MIDDLETON - RAMPTON 2 Q. That is what happened, is it not? 3 A. It did not. 4 Q. It does not appear before this, this is its first appearance.
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There had been a number of articles by this time, 19th April 2006, which you found objectionable. Neither you nor your wife writes to Mr. Mengi to say, "But this is monstrous, you promised it would stop and it is still going on." That is the first thing you would do, the first article -- I think the first article actually, which you do not accept -- shall we have a look? It is 3rd January 2006. Could you look at file 3, please? MR. JUSTICE BEAN: The first article, post-meeting? MR. RAMPTON: Post-meeting, my Lord, yes, 3rd January. It is page 6, please, and is an article in Nipashe. This is one of the articles which is listed in your wife's defence as being an article which was unfair and inaccurate, part of, it is said, a defamatory campaign by Mr. Mengi's newspapers. This is headed, "Investor given seven days to pay 7 million shillings." That is 3rd January 2006. Then if you turn over to page 8, there is a transcript on the following page, 8A, but never mind that, 19th January 2006. There is an article from The Guardian, which is the article about which your letter or your wife's letter of 24th February complains. 19th January 2006, "Moshi businessman takes back coffee
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON meeting, there are reasons for you to be hopeful of a resolution but not certain of one, is that right? A. Mr. Pocock's letter is not accurate, my Lord. Q. So you say. I have to put to you what I am going to suggest because I am going to suggest it at the end of the case, so I have to put it to you since you were there at the meeting. You reported what had happened at the meeting faithfully to your wife, and by faithfully I mean you gave her not the account you are giving us now in court but what actually happened, which was that Mr. Mengi had said he would try and see what his brother, he would talk to his brother, see what his brother might agree to, and he would look into the press coverage. I am summarising. You have to accept that is the case on our side of the court. A. I do not accept it. Q. I know you do not. And that you said to your wife it was better than you expected, because she did not want you to go at all. He did say he would look into the newspaper coverage. He did say he would try and talk to his brother to see if it could be sorted out. Over a period of, what is it, it is about four months, the expression, such as, "I will look into it", got converted, did it not, and transformed into an undertaking to stop the coverage? A. No, my Lord, it did not.
MIDDLETON - RAMPTON plantation". Turning over, please, to page 9, I do not know that this is one about which Miss Hermitage actually complains in her defence but it is an article which was the subject of extensive cross-examination of Mr. Mengi by Mr. Price. It might not have been Mr. Mengi, it might have been somebody else. 19th January, "Legal investor is Fiona(T) members". Then 2nd February 2006, page 12, Nipashe, these are translations, of course, Mr. Middleton. You, I assume, read Swahili.
11 A. No. 12 Q. You do not? Does your wife read Swahili? 13 A. No. 14 Q. How did you know about these articles at the time, then? 15 A. Brought to our attention by our staff. 16 Q. 2nd February 2006, "British claim to uproot coffee trees". 17 18 20 22 23 24 25
That is an allegation that you have uprooted the coffee trees on the farm, is it not? (No audible response) we will take a break, when you reach a convenient point. stop for a moment. I will consider how much more I have to go, actually, apart from anything else. Mr. Middleton, that is a series of articles of, I think, four before ever the promise not to publish such articles is brought to Mr. Mengi's
19 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Rampton, at some point in the near future 21 MR. RAMPTON: I will ask one question and then, my Lord, I will
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON attention in April. Why the silence, Mr. Middleton? A. My Lord, I cannot recall any particular reason why. The only thing that I can put it down to is the fact that there was -one has to understand that ever single day of our lives we were confronted with some form of harassment, being in court, but certainly not having to think about in a serious manner these articles, and so on. There was a period I think when my wife was in the UK I was on my own on the farm and some of these articles would have appeared while she was in the UK and I was on my own. But certainly there was so much going on otherwise where we were looking or trying to maintain our operations, trying to get on with our work, and everything else, and that is possibly the only reason why I think there was nothing done about this sort of article at that time. MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, I asked my learned friend because it arises from Fiona Burn's witness statement, and I was asked whether she needed to come here in person and give evidence, it was unclear from her witness statement when it was that Miss Hermitage was in England. It may be quite important. I do not know whether the information is now forthcoming. If so, I would like to have it. I asked for it by this morning. It plainly maybe of some importance. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Are you content that Mr. Price should take instructions from Miss Hermitage?
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON that case. A. Mention what, my Lord? Q. The undertaking, the supposed undertaking. A. Because that was what was said at the meeting. Q. Why wait till April to mention it? A. Because it was on the suggestion of my wife that we ought to start taking action on it. Q. Can you give me the date of her return again, I did not quite catch the date? A. 17th February. Q. 17th February, and it does not get mentioned until 19th April. The reason is, is it not, Mr. Middleton, that you or she, perhaps both, suddenly had a bright idea, "I know, he said he would look into the coverage. Let's call that an undertaking." It is a little jump, is it not, from truth ---A. It certainly is not, my Lord. Q. -- from truth to falsity. A. It is definitely not, my Lord. Q. Do you remember his saying, "I will look into it, I will look into the media coverage." A. No. Q. You do not? So, Dr. Pocock is wrong about that, too, is he? A. Yes.
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON all. Miss Hermitage, that the dates are 16th January to 17th February 2006.
MIDDLETON - RAMPTON pause. 12. Mr. Middleton, you have heard me say to witnesses do not discuss it with anyone else in case there are more questions. (Short adjournment)
2 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, I am perfectly content. I do not mind that at 4 MR. PRICE: My understanding is, because I have just been told by
2 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, I will pause there. I may stop but I will 4 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: All right. We will take a break until 5 past
7 MR. RAMPTON: You heard that information? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. It is likely to be correct. It comes from your wife. I do 10 11 12 13 14 16 18 19 20 21 23 24
8 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, Mr. Rampton. 9 MR. RAMPTON: There is only one more thing. It is not even a new 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
not expect you to remember the exact dates, Mr. Middleton. Yet for all that, it is not until April of 2006, some two months after your wife returns from England, if I have the dates right, that a squeak emerges from your side about the coverage. The coverage mattered to you, did it not? going on at the same time, my Lord. not just you, it demoralised your staff, and people were talking about it. Yes. Yet all that time those articles passed by and there is not a word from you to Mr. Mengi about a broken promise, a failed undertaking, is there? I believed that even if we had written any letters at all it would have had absolutely no effect whatsoever.
thing, Mr. Middleton. I want to clear something up. Could you find your witness statement, in file 2, at tab 12? For context, please turn to paragraph 49. You say you are deeply shocked by Mr. Mengi's letter of 16th December 2005 to Mr. Pocock .... (reads to the words).... no real thought had been applied to finding an acceptable resolution." It did speak, did it not, Mr. Middleton, of preliminary discussions with Ben? Do you want to look at it?
15 A. It did matter. There was a lot of other important things 17 Q. You told us very vividly in court his morning how it affected
18 A. Yes, it did speak of it. 19 Q. He said, this is at page 197, file 1.2, "In this regard I have 20 21 22 23
had preliminary discussions with Benjamin Mengi, who has in principle agreed to withdraw the case on conditions," and the conditions, Mr. Middleton, which you told us, are not acceptable to you, is that right?
22 A. My Lord, there was not but, quite frankly, at the time I think
24 A. Correct. 25 Q. Why do you say it was suggested that no real thought had been
25 Q. I do not understand why you bothered to mention it at all, in
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON applied to finding an acceptable resolution? A. Simply because, my Lord, he did not take into consideration, or whether he took into consideration, he did not even ask for details of the reasons for the demands that were being made. It was purely and simply a demand. Q. Brother Benjamin had apparently restated his position after a preliminary discussion with his brother. A. Yes, but he did not -- the claimant did not ask me any details of the so-called demands. Q. He did give you the opportunity to respond, did he not? There is no reason why you should not have taken his invitation. You had better look at it. It is not fair to cross-examine if you do not have the document in front of you. It is page 197, file 1.2. A. Yes. Q. At the bottom of that page he says, "An early response to this proposal will be appreciated." That is not directed to Mr. Pocock, is it, that is directed to you? A. Yes. Q. He copied the letter to you and you tell us in your witness statement, at paragraph 49, that you telephoned him to tell him that you were not prepared to meet his brother's demands. A. Correct. Q. Is that right?
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON you? A. Yes. Q. Mr. Pocock does not mention it either, does he? A. No; from what I can recall in his statement, no. MR. RAMPTON: Thank you, Mr. Middleton.
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MIDDLETON - RAMPTON 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. You did not say anything else but that to Mr. Mengi? 4 A. I told him they were ridiculous demands that I have already
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MIDDLETON RE-EXAMINED BY MR. PRICE
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3 Q. Just explain to my Lord why it was that Benjamin Mengi's
demands, as relayed to you in Reginald Mengi's letter, were not acceptable? for he was not entitled to, in terms of the payment, I think, there was a demand for 7,000 dollars. On top of that, I think, he was demanding to be reinstated as a director of the company. That was totally unacceptable knowing his behaviour and the way he behaved towards us. But all in all it was just not acceptable. It was completely against anything that I would have agreed to and he was very aware of it, and in fact at the meeting that we had ---aware? meeting we had with the claimant, I had all the documentation pertinent to the agreement and the assignment of the lease, the lease purchase and everything else that we had fulfilled with Benjamin Mengi. I had those on hand when I went to that meeting. The claimant informed me at the meeting that he did not want to see another piece of paper concerning our case because he had reams of paper on the subject and he was fully aware of what the transaction was. Now, when I received this
refused. Q. Yes. You also say at the end of paragraph 49 of your witness statement, at page 234, "I also informed Mr. Pocock of my decision." When did you do that? A. The following morning. Q. By telephone? A. By telephone. Q. Again, you would have told Mr. Pocock that Mr. Benjamin Mengi's demands, as you call them, are not acceptable? A. Yes. Q. When was it then, because this is not in your witness statement and it was not put to Mr. Mengi in cross-examination, when was it then you complained to Mr. Pocock that his letter of 14th December was deficient? A. The day after I received it. Q. Why did you not put that in your witness statement? A. I do not know. Q. Mr. Price evidently did not know it because he would have put it to Mr. Mengi, would he not? A. Yes. Q. Is it something you just thought of when I put the question to
6 A. My Lord, they were not acceptable in that what he was asking
15 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: He, Benjamin, was aware, or he, Reginald, was 17 A. No, Benjamin Mengi was very aware of it. In fact, at the
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1 MIDDLETON - PRICE 2 letter from the claimant, which basically reiterated what his 3 brother was trying to do in court, I just made up my mind it 4 was not worth pursuing the subject. It was just totally 5 unacceptable. 6 MR. PRICE: Was it not a basis for discussion. 7 A. There was no basis for discussion because it was a demand. 8 There was no further, there was no sort of counter-offer, or 9 anything like that, it was a demand. 10 MR. PRICE: Thank you. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
MIDDLETON - THE COURT 2 A. To see whether legal case might be withdrawn. 3 Q. In what way do you say that is a wrong summary of what said? 4 A. My recollection was that he, the claimant, stated that he
1
would speak to his brother about withdrawing the case. 6 Q. Are those very different? 7 A. To my mind it was, my Lord, because, as I said earlier on, it 8 was a question of approaching the claimant as the older
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brother to try and put some sense into his younger brother's head and if anybody was going to withdraw it it had to be Benjamin Mengi himself. Q. Yes. I am not clear why you think the words "you will try to see whether the legal case might be withdrawn" ---A. Because it infers that he might use other means of trying to get them withdrawn. Q. Anything else in paragraph 3 that you disagree with as a summary of what was said by Mr. Mengi at the meeting? A. No. Q. You told me earlier this morning that in a phone call to your wife after the meeting you told her that Mr. Mengi had said to you, "Don't worry about the legal costs," is that right? A. Correct. Q. Is that the gist of what you remember him saying to you at the meeting on the costs, "Don't worry about the legal costs." A. What he said to me, as far as I can remember, is, "Don't worry
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MIDDLETON QUESTIONS BY THE COURT MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Middleton, could you just go back to Dr. Pocock's letter on the previous page, page 196. Now, as Mr. Rampton pointed out to me, this is the most contemporaneous record. It cannot be a verbatim record, nowhere near it, if the meeting that took about two hours as you and Mr. Mengi have both said. What I would like you to do is look through it, starting at the second paragraph, and just say in respect of each item that Dr. Pocock mentions, you do remember that that was said, you do not remember whether it was said or not, or you think it was not said. All right? Start with the second paragraph, was all that said. A. Yes. Q. Right. Now the third paragraph? A. Sorry, my Lord, can I go back? Q. Yes? A. That the second paragraph is not complete. Q. Of course it is not complete but at the moment I would just like you to tell me not about what is left out but what that letter actually says. A. My apologies, yes, and what is stated there is correct. Q. Yes. The third paragraph? A. I do not agree with it entirely. Q. What, in particular, do you think was not said?
KABENDERA about the legal costs. I will sort that out." Q. Mr. Rampton put it to you that what Mr. Mengi said about press coverage was on these lines, that he would look into the press coverage of the Silverdale issue. Are you saying that he said no such thing or that you cannot remember, or that that is what he said? A. No, what I am saying is that he said he would stop the use of his media in publishing those sort of articles against us, or about us. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Right. Thank you. Anything arising, Mr. Price? MR. PRICE: No, my Lord. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Rampton? MR. RAMPTON: No, my Lord. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Middleton. (The witness withdrew) MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, Mr. Price. MR. PRICE: My Lord, I will next call Mr. Kabendera, and I do so because I want to be sure that he can return to Tanzania. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. MR. PRICE: Mr. Kabendera, please. MR. ERICK KABENDERA, SWORN EXAMINED BY MR. PRICE MR. PRICE: One of those files in front of you, Mr. Kabendera --
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KABENDERA - PRICE I suspect it is the one that is open. No, not that one; the one straight in front of you, this one. I think that probably is it. Is that file 2? A. Yes. Q. Go to tab 17, would you. It will be further back than that. I think you are going the wrong way. All the way forward to tab 17. They have got numbers on them, the tabs. It is quite near the end of the bundle. (Pause) Is that your witness statement?
KABENDERA - PRICE 2 Q. Well, later, you obviously decided to sign a witness statement 3 and to come here to give evidence. Would you explain to my 4 Lord what your reason for that was?
1 5 A. My Lord, I had three reasons for that. One was that the 6 managing director of the Guardian Limited, who I understand 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
11 A. Exactly, my Lord. 12 Q. Is that your correct address? 13 A. Exactly, my Lord. 14 Q. You will see your signature at the end of it. You may be 15
looking at the summary, I suspect.
16 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Are you looking at page 292, A to E? 17 MR. PRICE: 292E is where the signature should be. You may have 18 20
to go a little further forward. (Pause) correct version. Perhaps someone can check. (Pause)
19 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I wonder whether your bundle has, in fact, the 21 MR. PRICE: Do you have your witness statement now? 22 A. Yes, I do. 23 Q. Do you have the signature at the end of it? 24 A. Yes, my Lord. 25 Q. Have you had an opportunity of looking through that witness
before I left the Guardian was also the managing editor, Mr. Kiondo Mshana, was my mentor and my investigative journalism lecturer at the university, and he taught me, you know, as a journalist, you needed to be independent and courageous, no matter the people who disagreed with your position, as long as you are in the right position and you believed in what you are doing. Secondly, my Lord, Mr. Wallace Mauggo, who I understand before I left the Guardian was the deputy managing editor, and is my mentor and my long time friend, had actually encouraged me on the importance of telling the truth, you know, and I remember on several occasions, my Lord, we have had with Mr. Mauggo, he told me we can be all journalists but define our views, but still remain journalists, still belong to the same profession. The last one, my Lord, Mr. Reginald Mengi, you know, had spoken to journalists so many times and he has always insisted on the importance of being bold, of telling the truth, you know, of pursuing what you feel is important for your society. So, eventually, my Lord, basing on these reasons, I felt it
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KABENDERA - PRICE statement again recently? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. Is that witness statement your evidence in this case? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. And is it true? A. Very true. Q. In September a witness summary of was served for you, without your signature. Were you asked to provide a witness statement in September? A. Because I needed to consult my friends, my family and my colleagues before I submitted that signed witness statement, my Lord. Q. Was there any reluctance on your part to sign a witness statement? A. I think there were a couple of issues, my Lord, but the most important issue was that my friends felt, and my former colleagues when I worked at different newspapers in Tanzania felt that, you know, I was a young journalist with a bright future ahead in journalism and that I did not need to be in Mengi's good books, because, as you understand, my Lord, back in Tanzania, you know, he is a very influential business person, you know, with political friends, and they felt, "You do not need to fight with him, because maybe the repercussion of that could end your career."
KABENDERA - PRICE was important for me to come here. Q. Mr. Mshana is the managing director of the Guardian Limited? A. Yes, my Lord. That is what I understand. Q. Is he in court now? A. Yes, he is in court. Q. Is Mr. Chuwa in court now? A. My Lord, he was here in the morning. Q. But he is not here now? A. He is not here now. Q. Just one further question. Did you win a David Astor Journalism Award in 2009? A. Yes, my Lord. When I one the award, the award organisers wrote a letter to the Guardian, asking to give me permission for three months to come to the UK, where I worked with The Times and The Independent for three and a half months. MR. PRICE: Thank you, Mr. Kabendera.
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KABENDERA CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. RAMPTON
3 MR. RAMPTON: Yes. Mr. Kabendera, when did you start work at 4 Guardian Newspapers, or whatever you call it? When did you
KABENDERA - RAMPTON 2 MR. RAMPTON: Your Lordship is quite right. My alphabet -- that 3 is terrible! That is a letter to you. I do not know whether 4 it is a response to your letter of 21st November, but it is
1
start your work for the Guardian in Tanzania? 6 A. My Lord, the negotiations to join the Guardian started in 7 September. Because I was going to be away in New York to 8 report from the General Assembly, my Lord, for three months,
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dated 2nd September 2008. Do you see that? 6 A. Yes, my Lord. 7 Q. At any rate, it offers you an appointment as a features writer 8 with effect from 1st November 2008; do you see, in the first
5 9 job title? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Underneath "offer of appointment"? 12 A. Yes, my Lord. 13 Q. "....is pleased to offer you employment for a period of two 14 years with effect from 1st November 2008." Yes? You tell us 15 16 17 18
I proposed that I officially start working in December, when I would be back; but when I came back, I needed some time off, and, my Lord, I started work officially in the first week of
January, in 2009. 13 Q. Can we make sure we have got your dates at the Guardian 14 correct, Mr. Kabendera? The best way of doing that, I think,
15 16 17
the safest way, is by turning to tab 3 in that file you have got there, please. In that tab, you should find two
in your witness statement that you did not start until January 2009, which is fair enough. Now please turn to 123Q, please. I hope I am on the right page. Is that a document
statements, in tab 3, by Mr. Wallace Mauggo. Is it Mauggo? 18 A. Mr. Mauggo. 19 Q. Two statements. It is the second statement that I would like 20 you to look at, which starts, I think, at page 123A, please.
21 22 23 24
Have you found that? Then behind that, at page 123J, there is a small clip of exhibits, on the front of which you will see "Exhibit WMM/2 to the second witness statement of Wallace
headed "The Guardian Limited"? 19 A. Yes, my Lord. 20 Q. Is it partly in handwriting and partly in typescript? 21 A. Yes, my Lord.
22 Q. Is it an application by you for leave of absence? 23 A. Yes, my Lord. 24 Q. That is your signature towards the bottom of the page; and the 25
Makengo Mauggo". Have you got that now, or not? Yes? 25 A. Yes, I do.
date is 26th November 2009, is it not? In that document, do
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON Q. Right. The first document in this little sequence is an application by you, is it not, dated 21st November 2008 for the post of features writer? I do not think we are on the same page, Mr. Kabendera. (Pause) That is what mine looks like. Could somebody help him, please? I cannot do it from here. Have you got something that looks like that? (Pause) 123K, yes. Thank you. Is that a letter -- sorry, I am looking at 123J, which is the one I want first, which should be the first -- sorry, K, yes. Is that a letter written by you to the managing director of IPP Media Limited? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. Is it dated 21st November 2008? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. Does it apply for the post of features writer at the Guardian newspaper? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. You told the managing director you had been working for the Citizen newspaper for four years? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. Turn over the page, please, to 123H. This is a response to your application, signed by Mr. Nguma, the lawyer, dated 2nd September. A. Sorry, my Lord. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I think it is L, 123L.
KABENDERA - RAMPTON you see that underneath the capital letters "Leave application for year 2009, to be filled in duplicate", there is "Name" -that is you, Erick Kabendera -- "Date of first appointment: December 2009. Department: Editorial. Designation: Features writer". Yes? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. So, you are still a features writer. Then turn over the page to 123R. This is a letter addressed, I think, to you from Mr. Mshana, the managing director. It is dated 2nd March 2010. A. My Lord, I haven't found the letter. Q. Oh. 123R. (Pause) If it helps, the document I am looking at has an "8" in a circle at the bottom of the page, in handwriting. A. Yes, my Lord. I have found it. Q. Right. It is addressed to you and it is dated 2nd March 2010, and it says: "I am pleased to inform you that you have been appointed as a news editor of the Guardian Newspaper with effect from 01.02.2010" -- that is to say, 1st February 2010. Yes? A. My Lord, I never received this letter, because my understanding, my Lord, was that the issue regarding my appointment as news editor for features writer was delayed. I started work without a letter of appointment; and my Lord,
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON my concern was, because I was taking on a new position, my salary had to be increased and I needed to get a new contract as news editor. That was never done, for my entire time at the Guardian when I worked as news editor. So, I do not remember to have received a letter confirming that I was appointed as a news editor, my Lord, because of the pending issues I had with the management. Q. Mr. Kabendera, I will put it bluntly: you never worked in the news department until the beginning of February 2010, did you? A. If I remember correctly, my Lord, my role as news editor at the Guardian.... (Pause) My Lord, can I be reminded where my witness statement is? MR. PRICE: Tab 17. THE WITNESS: My Lord, I was appointed to the position slightly after August 2009, but it was not early 2010. MR. RAMPTON: You did not work in the news department of the newspaper until February 2010, did you? A. (Pause) I can't remember exactly, my Lord, but it was before that, if I recall correctly. Q. Do you remember a lady called Sakina Datoo? A. I do, my Lord. Q. Yes. She left the newspaper in June 2009, did she not? A. I can't remember exactly, my Lord. Q. And she was the group managing editor?
KABENDERA - RAMPTON
2 Q. You know Mr. Wallace Mauggo, do you not? 3 A. I do, my Lord. 4 Q. He has given evidence in this court, you know. Did you know 5
that?
6 A. Yes, I know that, my Lord. 7 Q. In this case. He has told his Lordship that you never 8 10 11 12 13 15 16 18
attended any news conferences when you were in features? very well to have attended meetings when I was in features, which were held in Miss Sakina Datoo's office; and actually I would go there with the line-up for the stories which would be published by the features section, my Lord. while you were there, was he not, not the deputy managing editor? the Guardian.
9 A. My Lord, he might have, he may have said so, but I remember
14 Q. Mr. Wallace Mauggo was the managing editor of the newspaper
17 A. To the best of my knowledge, he was not the managing editor of 19 Q. Who was the managing editor then, Mr. Kabendera? 20 A. The managing editor of the Guardian was Mr. Kionda Mshana, who 21
was also the managing director.
22 Q. Also the managing director? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. The deputy managing editor was a Mr. Bernard Mapalala, was it 25
not?
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON 2 A. To the best of my understanding, my Lord, when 3 Mr. Bernard Mapalala left, Mr. Mauggo took over the position,
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON Yes, my Lord. She dealt with news, did she not? I beg for your ---She dealt with news? Yes, my Lord. Would you look at paragraph 7 of your witness statement, please. You have written this, or somebody has, which you said is true: "There were Daily News conferences for editors at the IPP Guardian, and for a period when Sakina Datoo worked in an editorial role at the newspaper there were daily meetings with editors. However, at these meetings it was made clear (to you) that the newspaper's editor wanted stories to run on the front page relating to the claimant, including on his war on corruption, reporting favourably on statements made by allies of the claimant. The witness understood" -- sorry, you understood -- "that the deputy managing director had received this direction from the managing editor, who had in turn been directed by the claimant." Until you joined the news department, Mr. Kabendera, in February 2010, you had never attended a news conference, did you? A. My Lord, when I worked in features, I would, because the then features editor, Miss Salona Beta, felt she was too busy to go to the editors' conference, so I would attend the editors' conference on behalf of her. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
but was never made full managing editor of the Guardian. He was a deputy managing editor, reporting to the managing editor who was the managing director. Q. So you say. I have to contest that. It is not the evidence of Mr. Mauggo himself, amongst other things. The fact is, your experience of news conferences at the Guardian lasted for three and a half months, did it not -- from February 2010 until 14th May 2010; that is the fact, is it not? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. Well, in the light of that answer, now, Mr. Kabendera, we can go through your witness statement. Can you please turn to paragraph 4. You have said this: "The claimant had a full-time press adviser, Abdul Hamid Njovu, who had a room next door to the claimant's office." Where was the claimant's office, Mr. Kabendera? A. My understanding is that, my Lord, the claimant's office was at (inaudible), the city centre. Q. On which floor was the claimant's office? A. I don't remember, my Lord, exactly, which floor his office was on. Q. And where was Mr. Njovu's office, Mr. Kabendera? A. Because, my Lord, I had been to Mr. Njovu's office once, and I
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON do not exactly remember which floor that was.
3 Q. Mr. Njovu's office, Mr. Kabendera, is in a separate part of 4 the building from Mr. Mengi's office, is it not; it is in a
KABENDERA - RAMPTON 2 Q. Was it? I have to suggest to you that that simply is not 3 true.
1 4 A. My Lord, to the best of my knowledge, Mr. Mauggo actually, for 5 all the front meeting centre actions we had, he would always 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
different wing, is it not? (Pause) 6 A. My Lord, I don't understand. But when I went there last to 7 see him, while I was still at the Guardian, he told me that
5 8
suggest that as a deputy managing editor, managing editor, he did not have full editorial power; and my Lord, at times he had to go to Mr. Kiondo Mshana's office, who was the managing editor, to consult him on various editorial issues. So, my Lord, to the best of my understanding, and according to what I was told when I joined, when I first started working with Mr. Mauggo, my Lord, it was that he was the deputy managing editor, not the managing editor of the Guardian, despite the fact that he did all the work of the managing editor; but he
his boss's office, the claimant's office was next to his.
9 Q. So, you have never actually seen Mr. Njovu in an office next 10 door to the claimant's, have you? 11 A. Yes, my Lord. 12 Q. You have? You have seen Mr. Mengi and Mr. Njovu together in 13 nextdoor offices, have you? 14 A. I haven't seen that, my Lord. 15 Q. No. Just so that we get it right, in fact, the downtown 16 office of IPP Limited is ten kilometres away from where the
newspaper's office is, is it not? 18 A. My Lord, that is why I say, I didn't -- because I didn't have 19 proper measurements of the distance, that is why I said it was
17 20
was not full managing editor. 16 Q. You write in this paragraph 6 that you were informed that 17 there were some issues that you should never touch; for
18 19 20 21
example, you were told that the IPP Guardian would not publish any negative stories about mining in Tanzania "because the claimant had substantial interests in the industry". Do you
about six kilometres or so.
21 Q. Tell me this, Mr. Kabendera: for the three and a half months 22 that you worked in the news department at the Guardian, how
many times did you see Mr. Njovu? 24 A. More than seven times, my Lord. 25 Q. More than seven times in three and a half months. Did you
23
see that? 22 A. Yes, my Lord. 23 Q. Do we have that copy of the original in court, please? 24 (Same handed) Thank you very much. Well now, here,
25
Mr. Kabendera, is a copy of the Guardian on Sunday, dated
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON listen to what he was saying to people? A. My Lord, I mostly saw him when he came to the news room, mostly in the evenings, or in the morning, when he would pass by to say Mr. Mengi would be having an important event and that we needed to send a good journalist, an experienced journalist, to report the event. Q. There were three news conferences a day at the Guardian, Mr. Kabendera, were there not: there was one in the morning at eight o'clock, which was what was called the postmortem meeting; and then there was a planning meeting at 11 o'clock; and then there was the main editorial meeting for the next day's newspaper at four o'clock in the afternoon; that is right, is it not? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. Did Mr. Njovu ever come to any of those meetings while you were there? A. He did not, my Lord. Q. No. Look at paragraph 6 of your witness statement, please. The first sentence says this: "At the time of the claimant's publicised war on corruption, the witness was called into the office of the deputy managing editor of the IPP Guardian"; and then you report what he told you. Who was that deputy managing editor that gave you this information, Mr. Kabendera? A. That was Mr. Mauggo, my Lord.
KABENDERA - RAMPTON 21st February 2010. Now, at that time you were working in the news department, did you work on the Sunday Guardian? A. My Lord, the daily Guardian and Sunday Guardian were different entities. Q. Did you work on the Sunday Guardian? A. Because we all worked for the same company, my Lord, we shared stories, we shared journalists; but there were two different teams for the Guardian, the Guardian daily and the Guardian weekend.
11 Q. Did you work on the Sunday Guardian? 12 A. I didn't, my Lord. 13 Q. You did not. Have a look at this, will you, please? Look at 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
the first page, at the bottom, and then at the second and third pages, and then at pages 8 and 9. Just take a little time to absorb what they are telling the reader. (Same handed) announced that it was cross-listing for the first time, my Lord, I attended the news conference. Actually, I was from the Guardian daily, and Mr. Stephen Ichwa, who was at the time the news editor for ITV, came along with me. We went to this press conference; and after the press conference, my Lord, I came back, I wrote the story, but the story did not come out. Despite the story being published in all national
18 A. My Lord, I remember this story very well, because when Barrick
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON newspapers as a front, as a lead story, we did not publish that, because we felt at the editorial meeting, which was chaired by Mr. Mauggo, that Mr. Reginald Mengi would not be happy with the Guardian publishing on the front page the lead story, you know, the Barrick cross-listing as the lead story. So, my Lord, this story came out two days' late in the Guardian daily; and I remember we had a fierce discussion in the news room, and, my Lord, the managing director, the managing editor of the Guardian on Sunday, Mr. Richard Mgamba, who sat in the nextdoor office, you know, took part in the discussion, actually, from his office, and he said he was going to do a big analysis on this publication. If I remember correctly, my Lord, the Guardian which run this story was on a Friday, if I am right, and on the weekend we had a more full analysis of what the Barrick cross-listing meant to the Dar Es Salaam stock market and the mining in general in Tanzania. to look at the front page of that issue of the newspaper -there is a strap along the bottom -- and then turn over the page to pages 2 and 3 and cast your eye over the text. Yes? Do you see what that is about?
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19 Q. Mr. Kabendera, would you kindly do as I first asked, which is
24 A. Yes, my Lord. 25 Q. Then turn to pages 8 and 9, a double-page spread with a
KABENDERA - RAMPTON different to publishers that I had worked for in the past. It was explained to me that I could not be provided with a written Editorial Policy...." and so on and so forth. At the time of the claimant's publicised war on corruption, Mr. Kabendera, that was late April 2009, was it not? A. My Lord, I understand that the issue of the war on corruption continued until early 2010. Q. Yes, indeed so. However, the time when it really began was late April 2009, was it not? Mr. Mengi gave a press conference on 23rd April 2009, in which he released the names of what he called the five corruption sharks. Is that not right? Do you remember that? A. I do not remember that. Q. You do not remember it? Would you like to have a look at file 3? In the second section of that, marked B, turn to page 47, please. A. I am sorry, my Lord, could you repeat? Q. Yes, file 3, second section B, page 47. (Pause) A. My Lord, could you repeat? Q. 47. A. 47. Q. If you turn over the page to 48, this is a press release by Mr. Mengi. If turn over the page, you see that press release is dated 23rd April 2009. Yes? If you turn over to page 49,
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON coloured photograph. 8 and 9, yes? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. It is all about a risk of poisoned water at a mine run and owned by Barrick, is it not? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. It is an expos of hazardous waste created by Barrick, is it not? A. Yes, my Lord. industry, is it not?
KABENDERA - RAMPTON you see a report of that press release, do you not, in This Day, which is a Guardian publication? Yes?
4 A. I see it, my Lord. 5 Q. You were away from the Guardian in May, from May to August 6
2009, were you not?
7 A. Yes, my Lord. 8 Q. Look at the second paragraph of your witness statement. You 9 10 11 12 13
tell us that you were away from May 2009 -- this is the last sentence of paragraph 2 -- away from May 2009 until August 2009. Is that right? You see your witness statement there? It would be a good thing if you kept it open. It is No. 17 of volume 2.
10 Q. That is an article which is undoubtedly critical of the mining 12 A. Yes, my Lord. 13 MR. RAMPTON: Thank you. My Lord, would that be a convenient 14 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 25
moment? your evidence at two o'clock. In the meantime, you must not discuss your evidence with anyone. I will just have a look at the newspaper article during the break. (Adjourned for a short time) witness statement? Turn to paragraph 6, the first sentence, where you say this -- do you have it? "At the time of the claimant's publicised war on corruption, I was called into the office of the Deputy Managing Editor of the IPP Guardian. The Deputy Managing Editor told me that the IPP Guardian was
14 A. My Lord could you remind me where my witness statement is? 16 17 19
15 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, it would. Mr. Kabendera, we will resume 15 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I suggest that you take out the file underneath
and put it back. Otherwise, there may be general collapse. Two at a time is probably enough. there?
18 MR. RAMPTON: Tab 17, is that your witness statement you have 20 A. Yes, it is. 21 Q. Yes. Paragraph 2, on page 289 of the file, you say this: 22 23 24 25
20 MR. RAMPTON: Mr. Kabendera, could you return, please, to your
"When in May 2009 the newspaper recruited a permanent Features Editor, the witness travelled to the UK for several months, returning to the IPP Guardian in around August 2009 as News Editor." My first question about that is this,
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON Mr. Kabendera: you were not appointed News Editor until 2010, were you? We saw that this morning. A. Immediately after I came back, my Lord, before the following year there were major shuffles at the Guardian, after which I was, I became the News Editor. I cannot remember exactly the dates, but it was immediately after I had come back. Q. It may be you came back later than you say in this paragraph. However, we saw this morning evidence in the form of a contract, appointing you News Editor as from 1st February 2010, did we not? A. My Lord, as I said in the morning, I never saw an appointment letter to date and I consulted my immediate supervisor, who was the Deputy Managing Editor, about it because, my Lord, as a journalist getting a promotion in a newspaper, I believed the new post had come with a new package and because that was not done and I never received an appointment letter, so I was in a position without (inaudible), without an official letter of appointment. Q. Can you turn -- I am sorry about this, but this really at the moment is a little bit confusing, Mr. Kabendera. We may have to go back, I am afraid, to the exhibits of Mr. Mauggo's second statement, which is in tab 3 of the file marked 2 at page 123(R). Do you have that now? A. Yes, my Lord.
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON A. My Lord, as I said, looking at the letter, telling from the letter, telling from the dates this letter was written, you know, I had started actually working in that position, but I never got this letter to confirm me as News Editor, so I cannot actually confirm whether the letter was written on this exact date because when it was written, my Lord, it was never delivered to me. Q. Are you suggesting that this letter is not genuine. Are you suggesting that it is some kind of forgery? A. My Lord, I am not suggesting any forgery. What I am suggesting is the letter was never given to me. It was never sent to me and I have never seen this letter. Q. How do letters get distributed internally at the Guardian? A. My Lord, most of the things at the Guardian, I think there is no clear definition of how things are done, you know? They are done differently as anybody in a particular position feels it fit, but there is not an exact way of doing things, including distributing a letter. Q. Let us just test this, shall we, for a moment, Mr. Kabendera? Turn over to page 123(T) in Mr. Mauggo's exhibit. This is a letter from you. Did you send that letter, dated 14th May 2010? Do you see that? A. Yes, I did. Q. Is that your signature?
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON 2 A. Yes, that is my signature. 3 Q. It looks as though Mr. Mshana has written at the top at 4 somebody called HRM, "Check our policy and labour laws and
1 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
KABENDERA - RAMPTON Q. It is addressed to you and it is signed, on page 123(S), by Mr. Mshana, the Managing Director and he sent a copy to the Deputy Managing Editor ---A. Excuse me, my Lord, I am still -- it is on page? Q. 123(S). A. 123(R). Q. Yes, that is addressed to Mr. Eric Kabendera, care of the Guardian Ltd. The date is 2nd March 2010 and it says, "I am pleased to inform you that you have been appointed as a News Editor of the Guardian Newspaper with effect from 1st February 2010." Then on the following page, 123(S), he says, "I wish you all the best" and signs himself "K Mshana, Managing Director." Do you see that? A. My Lord, I never received this letter. Q. You never received it? A. I have never seen it, my Lord, and for the entire time I was acting in the position, this is what I was exactly pushing for, that I needed to get an official appointment letter from the management. Q. And you have got it. You wanted an official appointment letter and you got it. It takes effect from the month before so, presumably, you have been acting as News Editor since 1st February. That is how I read it. Am I wrong, Mr. Kabendera?
then advise me." What this is, is a letter, "....is a formal request for leave of absence to follow up our meeting yesterday." So you must have had a meeting with Mr. Mshana the day before, 13th May. "As we discussed, I would like to request a leave of absence to participate in a fellowship programme granted to me by the Tanzanian Media Fund from 14th May through November 31st. I will return to work on December 10th." The fact is, you never returned, did you? A. I did not return. Q. You did not return? A. No. Q. As your contract expired. If you look at 123(U), your contract expired on 31st October 2010, which was before your projected return date, so you never returned, did you? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. As I say, three and a half months as a News Editor, by the look of it. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Is that correct? MR. RAMPTON: If it is correct. A. I would say it is not correct because ---Q. Not correct, sorry.
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON A. My Lord, am I allowed to continue? MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, of course. Yes, please. A. As when the appointment letter was written, my Lord, I had already started working as News Editor, not actually from the date this letter was, you know, written. Q. Tell me when, tell his Lordship when, if you will, you first started work as a News Editor. That is my first question. A. As I remember, I do not remember which date exactly, but it was slightly before December 2009. Q. So it remains the case that you were not working as a News Editor when Sakina Datoo was there. Is that right? A. I was still in Features, my Lord. Q. Yes, you were. Also, you were not working as a News Editor at the time of the corruption campaign, the war on corruption by Mr. Reginald Mengi, were you? A. My Lord, my understanding is that the war on corruption, the way it was viewed by most journalists at the Guardian, was that it was continuous, which meant that, my Lord, everything that has anything to do with the corruption was given priority, in terms of our coverage. Therefore, my Lord, in my own definition on the war of corruption (and probably in the eyes of most journalists who were at the Guardian at the time), it was a continuous issue, not a one-time issue.
1 2 3 5
KABENDERA - RAMPTON was considerable coverage, there was a lot of publicity, my Lord, about war on corruption as well. called you into the office, was Mr. Wallace Mauggo, do you?
4 Q. You say that the person who gave you this information, who 6 A. Yes, my Lord. 7 Q. He denies that, you will not be surprised to hear. We have 8 9 10 11 12 14 15 17 19 20 21 22 23 24
dealt with mining and we have dealt with Sakina Datoo. Paragraph 8, Mr. Kabendera: "When the witness worked both in Features then as News Editor...." they are separate roles, are they not, Features and News? They are separate departments, are they not? at the witness statement. Mr. Rampton is asking were Features and News separate departments? sections, but working together. News reporter's write news stories, Features writers write features. They write character pieces, they write opinion pieces, they write what you might call political pieces, do they not, Features writers? That is the part of the newspaper you do not go to for news, you go to it for opinion, do you not?
13 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Kabendera, I do not think you have to look
16 A. My Lord, actually they were not departments, they were 18 MR. RAMPTON: However, they do different things, Mr. Kabendera.
25 A. My Lord, what used to happen at the Guardian is that, you
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON 2 Q. Quite right, Mr. Kabendera; so it became. It had its 3 beginnings in the spring of 2009 and it went on and on and on
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON know, you would do a Features story which would actually start from the front page, which meant that, you know, the News team had to be involved in terms of planning and in actual sense, as a journalist at the Guardian, I would be asked by the News section to write news stories for them. I would be asked by the Deputy Managing Editor, Mr. Wallace Mauggo, to help him with the editorial and that was because of the shortage of employees at the time, so which meant that as a journalist you do not, you were not required to confine yourself to your specific assignments. We had, my Lord, to help each other as a team to make sure, you know, the newspaper came out. Q. My question is this, Mr. Kabendera: when you were working as a Features writer, either to the end of 2009 or to February 2010 -- it matters not for this purpose -- did you ever go to the morning editorial meeting as a Features writer? A. Which meetings, my Lord? Q. There were three -- we did it this morning, Mr. Kabendera, I think. There was a meeting at eight o'clock in the morning, which is what I called the post-mortem meeting because what it does is to review the content of and the effect of yesterday's newspaper, perhaps in comparison with coverage in other newspapers. Then there is a planning meeting at 11 in the morning. Yes? Would you not know that? Do not say "yes" if you do not even know it.
because it is one the things about which Mr. Mengi, Mr. Reginald Mengi, has always felt strongly and led campaigns, is it not? A. My Lord, could you say it again? Q. It started about April 2009 and it continued after that for some considerable time, did it not? A. My Lord, do you mean the war on corruption? Q. Yes, the war on corruption. I do mean that, yes. A. To me, I cannot define that actually within a specific period of time because even before I joined the Guardian there was, you know, considerable coverage of issues to do with corruption and Mr. Reginald Mengi would openly talk about it on television, so I cannot actually define to a particular period of time. Q. My point is really quite a short one, Mr. Kabendera. It relates to the first sentence at paragraph 6 of your witness statement, where you have written, "At the time of the claimant's publicised war on corruption, the witness was called into the office of the Managing Editor of the IPP Guardian." That would not have happened if you had still been working in Features at the time, would it? A. Well, my Lord, because when I was still in news as well there
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON 2 A. I know it. 3 Q. Then four o'clock is the important meeting for the next day's 4 issue, is it not?
1 5 A. Yes, my Lord. 6 Q. The Features Editor will go to the four o'clock meeting? 7 A. My Lord, as a journalist I was required to attend the 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1 2
KABENDERA - RAMPTON morning would be embedded in your mind, would it not?
3 A. My Lord, I did, probably editors who were at the Guardian at 4 the time know that I attended all the meetings, the editors 5 6
meetings, the ten o'clock meeting and the four o'clock
post-mortem meeting and the ten o'clock meeting, I went in, I sat in on behalf of the Features Editor who actually felt she needed to put more time on editing stories and she asked me to be representing her at the ten o'clock meetings and four o'clock meetings. So, my Lord, when Sakina Datoo was still the Group Managing Editor, I would attend all three meetings. Q. Can you go to the top of the next page of your witness statement, the second part of paragraph 8? It is the top of page 291. You say this, the first complete sentence: "As News Editor, I repeatedly queried why they would discuss what should be on the front page the following day, before we knew what else was happening during the day which might be newsworthy." When you say the front page was discussed, what meeting was that? A. I mean the front page was discussed at both the post-mortem and the ten o'clock meeting, my Lord. Q. Why would the front page for the next day be discussed at the
meetings, my Lord. 7 Q. So if everybody else we have heard from in court talks about 8 an 11 o'clock morning meeting and nobody speaks of a
9 10
ten o'clock meeting, they are all wrong, are they? It was always ten o'clock, was it?
11 A. My Lord, I cannot say whether they are wrong or right, but 12 what I remember was the meeting would take place from
ten o'clock. 14 Q. You write, towards the end of this paragraph, you understood 15 from this that you were told -- hang on, let me read the
13 16 17 18
previous sentence: "The response that I received from the Deputy Managing Editor...." Who is that on this occasion, the
Deputy Managing Editor? 19 A. Which paragraph is that, my Lord? 20 Q. I am sorry, I am on the top of page 291 of your witness 21 statement.
22 A. Yes, my Lord. 23 Q. The second complete sentence on the page: "The response that 24 the witness received from the Deputy Managing Editor was that 25
you were only an employee and you should not be concerned with
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON post-mortem meeting? A. When I joined the Guardian, my Lord, I was actually surprised that reporters who actually were not editors at the ten o'clock meeting -- at the post-mortem would say because Mr. Reginald Mengi is going to attend a particular event, that guaranteed that story to come out on the front page. So it would be suggested that so and so is going to cover a front page story. So, my Lord, by such I felt, you know, in the morning it was not the right time to discuss the what should appear on the front page and, my Lord, this would extend to the ten o'clock meeting, where editors would sit to discuss what journalists were doing on the field and they would actually point out particular issues which, you know, from what was discussed they were guaranteed that they would come out on the front page before we knew what actually would happen before the newspaper went to bed. Q. Why do you call it the ten o'clock meeting, Mr. Kabendera? It was always 11 o'clock, was it not? A. To the best of my knowledge and my recollection, my Lord, the meeting basically was taking place from ten o'clock. Q. It suggests, Mr. Kabendera, if you are wrong about that, that you did not attend very many of those morning meetings, does it not. Otherwise the figure, the time of 11 o'clock in the
KABENDERA - RAMPTON such processes and that it was an order from above." Who was the Deputy Managing Editor who told you that? was a common understanding and agreement at the Guardian and during my time and we would talk about this many times, actually ---Deputy Managing Editor?
4 A. My Lord, there is a common understanding and agreement, there 5 6 7
8 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Kabendera, you were being asked who was the 9 10 A. The Deputy Managing Editor was Mr. Wallace Mauggo. 11 MR. RAMPTON: He said, "You are only an employee. You should not 12 13 14
concern yourself with what appears on the front page" and he went on to say that was "An order from above." He said that, did he?
15 A. Yes, yes, my Lord. 16 Q. I have to suggest to you, Mr. Kabendera, that that is a 17
complete invention. Do you want to comment on that?
18 A. It is not, my Lord. 19 Q. Then you say this: "The witness understood from this that it 20 21 22
was an order from the claimant." Is that something Mr. Mauggo said or is that the interpretation that you gave what Mr. Mauggo is alleged to have said? you know, would speak about the coverage of various events and what was published in the newspaper and he would say, you
23 A. On various occasions, my Lord, Mr. Mauggo, as my supervisor 24 25
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON know, we have actually on some occasion, you know, you have stories that come from Mr. Reginald Mengi through Mr. Kiondo Mshana, so he would say, you know, "We cannot be sure until we speak to Mr. Mshana, who would in turn speak to Mr. Reginald Mengi", to know if there were stories coming from, stories of interest he wanted to appear in the newspaper. However, my Lord, you know, regarding this statement, I remember that Mr. Mauggo talked to me about it. Q. Again, I suggest a complete invention, Mr. Kabendera. Please move to the next paragraph. "At the IPP Guardian, there was a special photographer who was used to take pictures of the claimant. Also, with his interest in television, special TV cameras for the claimant wherever he spoke." What does that mean, "special TV cameras for the claimant"? A. My Lord, I am still looking for that paragraph. Q. It is the beginning of paragraph 9 of your witness statement, on page 291. A. Yes, yes, my Lord, I have seen it. Could you repeat your question, my Lord? Q. What does it mean, "There were special TV cameras to film the claimant." What does it mean? What do you mean by a "special TV camera"? A. My Lord, when journalists, you know, after the assignments, the colleagues from ITV, you know, which is in a different
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
KABENDERA - RAMPTON These photographs are all photographs of the claimant and we have printed them out, Mr. Kabendera, as to test the truth of what you say in this paragraph. I do not know how many photographs there are, I have not counted them. I think something like 29 photographs in that little clip, over a period of I think about a year and a bit, as far as I can tell. There are seven different photographers credited by the caption of each of these photographs. If you could flick through them, please, and find the name that you gave us as being the special photographer whose task it was to take photographs of the claimant. (Pause) Well, which of those names is the one you mentioned?
15 A. I meant Selemani Mpochi. 16 Q. Which? 17 A. Selemani Mpochi. 18 Q. Right, let me see if I can find him. 19 MR. PRICE: If it was numbered, I would help. There are three of 20 22 23
them. did not know the name, you see. Thank you. One is an agency photograph, one is anonymous.
21 MR. RAMPTON: Yes. Well, I will check that for myself because I
24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: 16th March. 25 MR. RAMPTON: I have got one of 13th October 2010. Three out of a
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON building, were actually probably assigned to cover Mr. Reginald Mengi. They would basically come over to exchange information or notes regarding the events which would be covered. We were told (and this is the common knowledge within the Guardian and ITV), that there was special equipment set aside for covering Mr. Reginald Mengi alone and whenever, you know, they were not allowed to be taken to another assignment other than that. Q. Who told you that? You did not work in ITV, did you? A. I did not work in ITV, my Lord. Q. Go back to the special photographer. At the IPP Guardian, there was a special photographer who used to take pictures of the claimant. What was his name or her name? A. My Lord, the special photographer I am referring to here is the chief photographer. Q. He was called? A. He was called Mr. Mpochi Q. Sorry? MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mpochi. MR. RAMPTON: I see. Right. I am going to pass you now a little clip of photographs taken from the disclosure in this case. I will pass one up for his Lordship and one for the witness. Sorry, I am not being mean with them, there are more and I am going to pass them out in a minute.
KABENDERA - RAMPTON total of something near 30, Mr. Kabendera. Three photographs by your special dedicated photographer.
4 A. My Lord ---5 Q. It is just not a true statement, is it? You have made up. 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 15 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
There was not a special dedicated photographer; there were staff photographers on the Guardian who were used as and when they were needed. from 2008, before I joined the Guardian, but when I was in News that was the common knowledge, so I do not know whether that was before I joined or it was after I left, but when I was there, that was the common knowledge. or knew about, but common knowledge. Who else knew this? Give us some names, Mr. Kabendera? and including the, I had to discuss with the chief photographer regarding the pictures they would take at different events so that I could send the reporter to go along with them and when he was mentioning about Mr. Reginald Mengi's assignment, he would say, you know, I am a dedicated photographer for that. However, even in meetings, in editorial meetings, my Lord, there was a general consensus that Selemani Mpochi
9 A. My Lord, I do not know because these pictures were compiled
14 Q. Common knowledge now, is it? Not something that you observed
17 A. My Lord, as News Editor, I was responsible for all news events
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON was the person to go and photograph and take pictures of all Mr. Mengi's events. My Lord, there was a general notion that Mr. Mpochi was Mr. Mengi's favourite photographer, which meant, my Lord, he would go to all his assignments, when I was in News. mentioned this Selemani Mpochi, yes, as being the dedicated, favourite photographer of Mr. Reginald Mengi, did you not?
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON 200, it may not be significant at all. MR. RAMPTON: It is a question of proportionality, obviously. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. MR. RAMPTON: It is described to us as the photographs appearing in the newspaper during the period of Mr. Kabendera's working time at the Guardian. So it is, in that sense, exhaustive. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: All right. Shall we move on from photographers then? Mr. Kabendera.
7 Q. We will just test your evidence once more in this way: you
10 A. Yes, my Lord. 11 Q. You said that was when you were working in News, is that 12
10 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, I have done that. Paragraph 10, please, 12 A. Yes, my Lord. 13 Q. "It was common knowledge amongst journalists at the 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
right?
13 A. Yes, my Lord. 14 Q. The first one of those photographs taken by Selemani Mpochi is 15 16
IPP Guardian that the claimant could be generous if they carried out his wishes. I understood from discussion with other journalists that most editors and some reporters of the claimant's publications and other publications took money in cash directly from him. If the claimant saw the person as a threat, he tended to call them into his office where the witness understood that the claimant kept a briefcase full of cash for that purpose. Two questions, Mr. Kabendera.
a date, 13th October 2010. You were no longer at the Guardian at that date, were you?
17 A. Yes, my Lord. 18 Q. You were not at the Guardian in October 2010; you never came 19
back from your leave of absence, did you?
20 A. Yes, my Lord. 21 Q. That is right. The next one is a couple of pages on and it is 22 23
dated 16th March 2009, Selemani Mpochi. You were not working in News then, were you? You were still a Features writer.
22 A. Yes, my Lord. 23 Q. You have never seen the briefcase, have you? 24 A. I have never seen it, my Lord. 25 Q. Mr. Mengi has never offered you a bribe to stop you being what
24 A. Yes, my Lord. 25 Q. Finally, the last one, there is a picture, a rather bad
[Page 677]
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[Page 679]
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON picture, so I am surprised that Mr. Mengi should like it, and that is 28th January 2009. Again, you were not working in News at that time, were you?
KABENDERA - RAMPTON could be a threat to him, has he? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. My second question is who are the other journalists from whom you got the information? A. My Lord, this was (inaudible) because when I arrived at the Guardian and, subsequently, working as News Editor, I realised that most reporters and some editors would be in constant touch with Mr. Reginald Mengi and some of them would actually visit him, pay a visit to his office. My Lord, as salaries were mostly delayed -- you know, they would delay salaries for 15 months, for 15 days, sorry -- so journalists went to his office and came back with money, you know, described all these incidents to me. they? two journalists; one, Angela Navuri, she was in News. You know, she would openly claim to have seen Mr. Reginald Mengi come back with money and, my Lord, she would share stories, you know, of interacting with him and what would happen while she would be at his office. it down correctly. Could you please spell it?
5 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Where is that, Mr. Rampton? 6 MR. RAMPTON: It is towards the end, my Lord. It is the 7 8
penultimate page. Selemani Mpochi, it is a strange-looking photograph.
9 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Of the? 10 MR. RAMPTON: Of the claimant with a Japanese ambassador on 11
28th January 2009.
12 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. 13 MR. RAMPTON: This is a make up. It is another story, is it not, 14
Mr. Kabendera? There was no dedicated photographer?
15 A. No, my Lord, I cannot make up stories. 16 MR. PRICE: Could I just ask, does this purport to be a full set? 17 MR. RAMPTON: It was the only set that Mr. Eardley was able to 18 19 20 22 23 24 25
15 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Kabendera, counsel was asking who were 17 A. I cannot remember all of them, but if I remember very well,
give me. I cannot answer the question, but if you want further enquiries made and another 20 photographers brought to court ---is a complete series of all photographs of the claimant in his newspapers in a two year period, then the point that only three of them bear the byline of Mr. Mpochi is, to my mind, rather significant. If, on the other hand, it is 30 out of
21 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Rampton, it is a reasonable point. If this
23 Q. That is just one name, is it. Can you make sure we have got 25 A. The name of the reporter?
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON The journalist who told you this. Angela Navuri? Angela? Navuri, N-A-V-U-R-I. Navuri? Yes. Mr. Kabendera, why did you not put her name into your witness statement so that we could ask her about this? It is a little late in the case now to be coming up with names. A. My Lord, when I was writing this witness statement, I did not think it was important at the time to write the name here. Q. You did not think it was important, Mr. Kabendera? This is probably the most unpleasant allegation in the whole of your witness statement and you did not think to give us the chance to check whether it was true or false with the person who you allege gave you the information? Why not? (Pause) You realise how serious an allegation this is, do you not? It is an allegation of corruption, at second hand. A. My Lord, in Tanzania media circles, this is not considered as corruption because apart from the reporter I mentioned, I have met so many other reporters. Maybe, I cannot mention all of them, but I am very confident and sure of what I am telling this court, that there are other numbers of reporters who have admitted in public gathering, you know, gatherings of Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON have not, so far as I am aware, produced one piece of hard evidence that actually implicates the claimant in anything wrong, not one piece of hard evidence. You do not say you ever heard him say anything, you do not say you ever spoke to Mr. Njovu about the claimant. All you say is that one journalist told you he kept a briefcase full of cash for bribing people who were a threat to him. Where is the hard evidence? have never ever written fabricated information or said anything against anybody, and there is no reason for me to come to this court to tell lies about Mr. Reginald Mengi because I do not have anything against him. So what I came here to do was to tell the truth, what I know as a person who has worked at The Guardian, not my role to cock stories against him because I do not have any interest whatsoever in do ing so. contributing the odd piece to The Guardian as a freelance, did you not?
10 A. My Lord, I have been a journalist for almost eight years and I
19 Q. Mr. Kabendera, after you had left The Guardian you went on
22 A. Yes, my Lord. 23 Q. It is right, is it not, that Mr. Mauggo, whom I think you 24 25
described earlier or may have been another of the journalists, I cannot remember, Mr. Mauggo who knows your work well, does
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON journalists, that at one point in their career, you know, they have gone to Mr. Reginald Mengi's office, begged for money or given money for different reasons and it is common knowledge. In the media circle it is common knowledge. Q. It is a pity, Mr. Kabendera. Were you afraid -- it is a lady, Angela Navuri, yes? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. Were you afraid that if you gave us the name we would go and ask her whether it was true, is that the problem? A. No, my Lord. Q. It is not true, is it? It is another of your little stories, is it not, except this is a smear, not a story? A. No, my Lord, as a journalist for the years I have worked in journalism, I have never involved myself in a smear campaign so I would not make up any story and most important in a court like this. Q. The reason, and I will not to go through the rest of your statement, I merely suggest to you that it has all the same characteristics, you have lifted apparently hearsay evidence from sources, whether you heard it or not, I do not know, but I challenge the whole of it, as is now perfectly obvious, I will do it specifically if my learned friend wishes me to but I see no need, personally. You have come here to this court to do everything you can to spoil Mr. Mengi's reputation. You
KABENDERA - RAMPTON he not? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. He tried to persuade you to come back to The Guardian as a staff writer? A. My Lord, he tried to persuade me to go back as news editor, not as staff writer. Q. Yes. Sorry, yes, as a news editor, and you did not. A. I did not, my Lord. what you wanted, was it not? as well.
10 Q. The reason you did not was that The Guardian would not pay 12 A. That was one of the reasons, my Lord, but I had other reasons 14 Q. What were those other reasons? Please tell us. 15 A. As Mr. Mauggo would remember, my main concern was that there 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
needed to be career definition of what is required of me as news editor and I also wanted, my Lord, to make sure certain things were changed at The Guardian. For example, I told him about the shortage of reporters. There were about two reporters, full-time reporters, and most importantly I thought that at The Guardian the washrooms were very bad. You could not relieve yourself as a journalist and when I worked there we had to go outside the compound to relieve ourselves. So I said I needed the conducive environment to be created for me to go back. I felt that was a huge responsibility to put on a
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON person like Mr. Mauggo but I felt in one way or the other he would have mentioned this to the management and the management did something about it. So these are some of the reasons why I never went back. that is one of the reasons you came here to blacken Mr. Mengi's name in this court. Also, do you still owe The Guardian money? You had a loan from them, did you not?
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KABENDERA RE-EXAMINED BY MR. PRICE
3 Q. I only have one question. It was put to you that the period 4 during which you attended news conferences at The Guardian was 5 6 7
between February 2010 and May 2010. You said that, yes, that was right. Was that the only period during which you attended
6 Q. That is because they would not pay you the money you wanted,
news conferences? 8 A. No, my Lord, as far as I can remember when I joined The 9 Guardian I was in Features. I would regularly attend a news
10 11 12
10 A. Yes, my Lord. 11 Q. And they refused to give you a reference so long as the loan 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
conference. Sakina personally said that the Features section needed representation, and because the Features editor was
was outstanding, did they not? terminated, despite my contract my salary was terminated, despite the fact that the discussion between the Fellowship and the management was that all the stories I did for the Fellowship should continue coming out, should be published in The Guardian, but The Guardian felt that that could not work. I remember, my Lord, there were several meetings between the Fellowship organisers and The Guardian to see if I could continue getting my salary at the same time in the Fellowship, and The Guardian could continue publishing my stories. They did not do that. They did not agree to that and because I was going to be away on the Fellowship I did not have a salary I did not pay the remaining, the loan that I owed The Guardian.
13 A. What happened when I went to the Fellowship my salary was
fairly busy, she felt ---13 MR. PRICE: Yes. You told my Lord about that. 14 My Lord, the only other thing I say is that this little
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
clip appears to me to start in January 2008 and to finish, the earliest one that I have been able to find is January 2008, and the latest is October 2010. It certainly does not coincide with the period during which Mr. Kabendera was at The Guardian and it does not at the moment appear to us that there has been a search of The Guardian during that period. We may have to clarify this. It may just be that Mr. Eardley has done what he can with the material available to him, in which case
that is understandable. 24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I am not persuaded at the moment that this 25 issue of number or the portion of photographs taken by
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KABENDERA - RAMPTON not?
KABENDERA Mr. Selemani Mpochi is going to be decisive in the litigation one way or the other. MR. PRICE: My Lord, thank you. QUESTIONS BY THE COURT MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I have just one question about these editorial meetings but I do not think anybody else has been asked this. How many people would be there at a typical meeting? A. My Lord, it varied from time to time but there was supposed to be representation from Features, from Sports, from Photographers, and Business section, and the other senior editors in the editorial department.
2 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: You did not pay it back? You did or you did 4 A. I did not. 5 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Kabendera. 6 MR. RAMPTON: I beg your Lordship's pardon, something has been 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
put in front of me. (Pause) Thank you.
13 Q. How many people in all at a typical meeting, give me a range? 14 A. About six to eight people. 15 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Thank you. Anything arising? No? Thank you 16 17 19 21 23 24 25
very much, Mr. Kabendera, that concludes your evidence. (The witness withdrew) good time for the break? (Short adjournment) asked me to inform your Lordship that he is not here because he has had to go to hospital where his son is not very well, so he will not be here this afternoon.
18 MR. PRICE: Miss Hermitage, please. My Lord, would this be a 20 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, we will resume at 10 past 3. 22 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, before Mr. Price starts, Mr. Mengi has
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KABENDERA - THE COURT MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Sorry to hear it, of course, but he is not required to be here all the time, and there will be a transcript. MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, he thought it might look discourteous, that is all. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Not in the least. MR. PRICE: Miss Hermitage, please.
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HERMITAGE - PRICE Tanzania. We were forced from the country by brutal savage circumstances and abuse of law and somewhere somehow that had to be recorded. Firstly, it gave me a voice and, secondly, it was to warn other people not to go to Tanzania and not to invest, and thirdly, because the British Government is pouring copious amounts of money into a country whose President travels around the world spouting rhetoric of good governance and upholding the rule of law, and there are some inconsistencies in that rhetoric which I felt needed to be recorded. website? do not think there is any exaggeration in that with what they did to us in the country. We needed to heal. We needed to come to terms with what had happened to us. We could not come straight to Europe when we came out of Tanzania. We had animals to care for. The circumstances under which we were driven from the country, literally we had to stuff what we could carry into the back of our Land Rover with our three dogs and our two cats. My horses I had to get out previously because we could basically see what was happening to us. Sorry, Mr. Price, what is the question?
12 Q. Why did you wait until May 2009 before setting up your 14 A. The Tanzanians cut out our hearts and hung them out to try. I
25 Q. The question was why did you wait until May 2009?
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HERMITAGE - PRICE 2 A. Then we came back to Europe and we went to live in France. 3 Some friends of ours had a farmhouse in the Ardennes, a very
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
MISS SARAH LOUISE HERMITAGE, SWORN EXAMINED BY MR. PRICE Q. File 2, tab 11. A. Yes. Q. Is that your witness statement for this case? A. Yes, it is. Q. If you look at the end you have signed it? A. Yes, that is my signature. Q. Is it true? A. It is. Q. Just a couple of questions. You and your husband left Tanzania in February 2008. Before you left Tanzania was there any way in which you could have responded to the articles that appeared in The Guardian and Nipashe? A. No, there was absolutely no way whatsoever. All avenues of legal address were blocked. It was impossible to take any kind of legal action in Tanzania which could be considered to be objective and fair. Q. You set up your website just over a year later in May 2009? A. Yes. Q. Very briefly, what was the purpose of your website? A. I think there was one particular purpose. There were a number of reasons why I did it. Firstly, we were dreadfully hurt. Nobody had listened really to what had happened to us in
remote area, there were not communications, there was no email, and we stayed there for four months, I think, and then we went to Spain where we could quarantine the animals. By that time, by the time we had quarantined our animals we came home, came back to the UK, which was early 2009, but in the meantime my husband had suffered a severe mental breakdown. MR. PRICE: Thank you.
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HERMITAGE CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. RAMPTON Q. Do not think that any of my questions, Miss Hermitage, are designed to cast any doubt upon the experience of the humiliating and upsetting experience you had in Tanzania. Do not get me wrong. I am not fighting Mr. Benjamin Mengi's battle for him. I would like to know, please, what your intentions are for your website. What purpose does it now serve? A. Primarily, it makes me happy and I have a right to keep it until such time as I may be ordered by this court to take it down. Q. Sorry, I am a little deaf. It is a very difficult room. A. Firstly, Mr. Rampton, it makes me very happy. It still gives me a voice and I am entitled to keep it until such time as any court, or particularly this court, tells me to take it down. I still use it as a means of informing the public of the dangers of investing in Tanzania, of the hypocrisy of the Tanzanian government with its rhetoric on corruption. I think that is probably the main reasons why I like to keep it. Q. Do you wish to retain the presence of Mr. Reginald Mengi on that website? A. If it is relevant to the content, yes. Q. To what is it relevant now? A. It is not being published now, is it, Mr. Rampton.
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON ever walked the face of this earth, who supported us, and because he supported us and because he supported the Mzungu, ie white man, was hacked to death by a machete. I am sure you can appreciate the kind of mess that leaves behind. My husband had to go and pick it up. We were abused, we were beaten, we were threatened. Ever single week and towards the end every day of the week we had police with AK47s at the gate. We had our farm destroyed. We had our house broken into and ransacked by Benjamin Mengi. We had cattle left dying and putrefying round our house so that the stink would force us out of the country. Are you seriously suggesting to this court, Mr. Rampton, that we do not consider ourselves to be under threat after what we suffered in Tanzania, and I will consider myself and my family to be under threat from your client's actions until such time he chooses to issue an apology to us for the damage that his media did. Q. He done the damage to you with newspaper articles back in 2005, 2006, and early 2007, is that right? A. You know as well as I do it has been submitted to the court that there were publications in 2010, and there are two blog sites still remaining on the internet accusing me of being paid $50,000 by a prominent businessman in Tanzania where no evidence has been submitted to this court to prove it. Q. Do you think, Miss Hermitage -- do you prefer to be called
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON Miss Hermitage?
2 Q. What is not being published? 3 A. I do not think anything has been placed on there about 4 5
3 A. It is perfectly acceptable, Mr. Rampton. 4 Q. Do you think that it is a response to Mr. Mengi's present 5
Mr. Mengi and the allegations that I am sitting in this box for.
postings to accuse him of having lied back in 2005?
6 Q. No, but it is still there? 7 A. It is still there. Why should it not still be there? 8 Q. Do not get me wrong, I just want to know why it is still 9 11
6 A. Sorry, say it again? 7 Q. Is it a response to what is presently on the postings about 8
Mr. Mengi to accuse him of having lied back in 2005?
there. case.
9 A. He did lie. 10 Q. No, no, is it a response, Miss Hermitage? 11 A. Yes, it is a response. You cannot see Mr. Mengi as mutually 12 13 14 16 17 19
10 A. Because it is pertinent to the story of the Silverdale Farm 12 Q. Yes, it is pertinent to the history, is it not? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. You are not still under attack, if you like to put like that, 15 17
exclusive to the Silverdale Farm case. He is, in essence, part of it. He facilitated the environment that allowed it to happen and, yes, is the answer. quite, did you read the statement of Mr. Lema that we gave you on Friday? read it.
by Mr. Mengi's media organisations in Tanzania, are you? some degree of length.
15 Q. It is, is it not, Miss Hermitage, almost impossible, not
16 A. My Lord, if I may, I would like to answer that probably at 18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. 19 A. Do you know what a panga looks like? 20 Q. It is a kind of thing like a machete, is it not? 21 A. Yes. They are used in Tanzania to chop wood, basically, by 22 23 24 25
18 A. Yes, I did. I do not accept the evidence of it but I have 20 Q. You do not accept it? 21 A. No. 22 Q. We will have a look at your website in detail, I am afraid, 23 24 25
the Tanzanians, and they are exceedingly sharp. We went to bed each night, especially towards the end of our stay in Tanzania, not knowing whether we were going to wake up alive. We saw Mozaum Tanga, who was one of the finest Tanzanians that
over the next day and a bit. You do not accept it is now almost impossible to access the articles from 2005, 2006 and 2007 in Nipashe and The Guardian of which you were complaining
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON at the time? A. What I would submit to the court, Mr. Rampton, is that if you go on to the website called Way Back, which actually goes back to postings way before 1995 ---MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Sorry, which ---A. It is Way Back, my Lord. There are several websites but that is the particular one that has been mentioned in Mr. Lema's report. You will see that there are many IPP Media publications which are archived in that domain, but you will not see any of our defamatory publications. MR. RAMPTON: There is nothing to respond to on that score, is there? A. I consider that what your client has done to us will be a continuing response for the rest of our lives. I certainly will not stop until I am ordered by the court to do so. Q. I do not mean to confuse you, Miss Hermitage, it is a response so far as you are concerned, of course it is, you will never forgive the Mengi brothers, will you? A. It has nothing to do with the Mengi brothers. Q. What has not? A. This whole issue. It is not about personalities, Mr. Rampton. It is not about whether I like Mr. Mengi or whether I do not like Mr. Mengi. It is about accountability and the rule of law.
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON 2 Q. Is that not right? 3 Q. No, it is not right? 4 Q. Right, so what is the reason for it still?
1 5 A. I just told you. I have explained it quite clearly. If the 6 court wants a more clearer definition, then I will give it. 7 Q. The short answer to my question, I think, and tell me if I am 8 wrong, this is important, you see, in this case, the short 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
answer to my question is that that website where it accuses Mr. Reginald Mengi of lies and so on and so forth, and of corruption, is not a response to anything he is presently saying about you. A. It is a response to what happened to us, and Mr. Mengi is an intrinsic part of that. Q. Can I go back then, please, to 2005. For this purpose we will not need any documents just at the moment, I do not think. You heard your husband give evidence this morning; yes? A. Yes. Q. You have to say yes because that is not an amplifier, it is a recorder. A. Yes, I heard my husband give evidence this morning. Q. You will have heard him give an account of what he told you after his meeting with Reginald Mengi and Mr. Pocock. A. Yes, that is correct. Q. Was what he told the court accurate about what he had said to
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON 2 Q. Yes. I do not know about that, perhaps his Lordship will say 3 something about that later. I do not know. Your reason for 4 wanting to go on saying these things about Mr. Reginald Mengi
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is not that you are responding to any attack that he is presently making on you, is it?
7 A. For the last two years, or in fact longer, my husband I have 8 been living on benefits in the UK. Now, why do you think that 9 10 11 12 13
every time we apply, or my husband, as one of the most experienced agronomists in the country, he cannot find work. You would not consider it conceivable perhaps that it is because of the attack and the aftermath of that attack on us
13 that would be the case. 14 Q. He did not give any evidence about being refused employment on 14 15 15 account of those article back in 2005 and 2006.
16 A. No, I am not suggesting he did. I am just putting it to you 17 that perhaps that might be a reason. 18 Q. Oh, I see. So it is, as it were, to clear your names after 19 all this time so that he can get a job. I am not being
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frivolous, but this is what I think you are telling us. 21 A. I beg your pardon? 22 Q. It is so that he can more easily get a job if you call 23 Mr. Reginald Mengi a liar.
20 24 A. That is a ludicrous suggestion, is it not, Mr. Rampton? That 25 is akin to blackmail, is it not?
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON you? A. Yes, the only point I would make is that my recollection of what he said to me was that Mr. Mengi did say in the meeting that he was not responsible for his, was not responsible for what went into his newspapers. Q. I did not get that last answer, I am sorry. A. My recollection is that my husband told me that at the meeting Mr. Mengi also said that he was not responsible for what went into his newspapers. Q. You put that into various of your communications, did you not? A. Yes, I am sure I did; yes. Q. Yes, you did and you could only have got that from him, could you not, from your husband? A. Yes, of course. Q. He said he had not been aware of what was in the newspapers and he was not responsible for them. A. Words to that effect; I cannot tell you verbatim. Q. Yet at the same time your husband reported to you that Mr. Mengi had promised to put an instant stop to the defamatory articles? A. Yes, that is right. Q. Did there not seem to you at the time something of an inconsistency in that? A. No, absolutely not. It is exactly the kind of thing that
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON Mr. Mengi would say to ingratiate himself with the British High Commissioner. Q. At this point, I am afraid we probably do need a file, if I can find the right one. Yes, there is a file that your husband would call, and I prefer it to our way of speaking, one point two (1.2). A. Of which file? Q. 1.2. A. Could you give me the file number, please, Mr. Rampton? Q. Sorry, 1.2. I do not know if it has it on the back. It is a slim file. A. You mean file 1, core bundle volume 1.2. Q. 1.2, yes, please. I will ask you to open it in a moment, Miss Hermitage, but could you, please, first just answer this question so that I know exactly what your evidence is before we look at the file. Your husband told you that contrary to your expectation Mr. Mengi had promised, first of all, to stop the defamatory publications; that he had promised to sort his brother out, yes, or words to that effect? A. Yes. Q. That he had promised to get your lease legally registered? Did he tell you that? A. There was some mention of the lease, the exact wording used, I do not know. I cannot remember.
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON
2 A. Yes, yes, okay. I beg your pardon. Yes. 3 Q. That is an important letter, is it not, in principle? 4 A. It sets out Mr. Pocock's understanding of the meeting. 5 Q. Just a little bit more than that, the High Commissioner is at 6 7 8
the meeting. The High Commissioner has been lending some assistance to you and your husband in the course of your dispute with Mr. Benjamin Mengi, has he not?
9 A. Yes, he has. 10 Q. And the High Commissioner has attended this meeting at his own 11 12 14 15 16 18 19 20
suggestion to see if a resolution can be found. That is the idea of the meeting, is it not? essence, that is correct but as far as I am concerned there was that but I was also exceeding concerned about the defamatory publication. they were discussed briefly, I think, at the meeting but you see you have read the witness statement of Dr. Pocock, have you not?
13 A. That is certainly what my husband says and probably, in
17 Q. Yes. I realise that and your husband did mention them and
21 A. Yes, I have. 22 Q. He confirms what I have just said, does he not? 23 A. I think there are other issues that really have to be explored 24 25
on that situation with Mr. Pocock. I think you will find that is the second witness statement Mr. Pocock produced. The
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON Q. And that he had promised to pay the legal costs you had incurred in defending yourself against brother Benjamin's legal proceedings. A. Words to that effect, yes. Q. If you open that file now and turn to tab D, you will see at page 196 the letter from Dr. Pocock that we were talking about this morning. A. Yes, I see it. Q. You have it there, have you? You will have read that letter when it arrived, will you not? A. Yes, I read it at some point after it arrived; yes. Q. Surely, it was a letter of some importance to you both, was it not? A. Mr. Rampton, I do not want -- the answer to your question is, no, not to me. In my heart I never ever dreamt for one minute that Mr. Mengi would do anything whatsoever to promote our situation in Tanzania. I suppose when Stewart telephoned me and said what he said I was encouraged to an extent, but when that letter came it was just consistent with my view on Mr. Mengi and his conduct. Q. When this letter came from the High Commissioner? A. Sorry, I beg your pardon, I am looking at the wrong letter. Q. It is the letter from the High Commissioner that I wish you to look at?
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON first witness statement Mr. Pocock produced says he did not remember anything at that meeting at all. Q. That is very interesting. We certainly have not seen that. A. Well, I have. MR. PRICE: There is a summary in the claimant's file which I have not looked at for some time. MR. RAMPTON: It is very similar to the witness statement. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: If you want to refresh your memory of it, then do.
11 MR. RAMPTON: I have never seen another witness statement. 12 MR. PRICE: There is not another witness statement, my Lord, 13
I think we are trespassing into privileged territory.
14 A. Right. 15 MR. RAMPTON: Curiously enough, it is Miss Hermitage's privilege. 16 17
Do you want to tell me about that other witness statement or not.
18 A. I think I would have to take legal advice on that. 19 Q. Sorry? 20 A. I think I would like to take legal advice on that. 21 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, okay. My Lord, would it be a convenient 22 23 24 25
moment to have Miss Hermitage make up her mind whether she wants to waive whatever privilege there may be in that, or shall I leave it for the moment and come back to it tomorrow, if I remember?
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON of the claimant, which is in the bundle. If you are talking about that, then this is a red herring. (Same handed to witness)
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON witness said.
2 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I will show you the witness summary on behalf
3 MR. RAMPTON: We do not have Live Note, unfortunately. 4 MR. PRICE: We may be able to get it from the shorthand writer. 5 MR. RAMPTON: Yes. Mr. Eardley's note says, this is the second 6 7
6 MR. RAMPTON: It is, absolutely. 7 A. No, my Lord, that is not the statement I was referring to. 8 Q. If there is some other document that Miss Hermitage has in 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 25
witness statement of Dr. Pocock, in the first he did not remember anything. Mr. Pocock produced. The first witness statement Mr. Pocock produced says he did not remember anything at that meeting at all." but I do believe that is probably a waiver, if the document exists.
8 THE SHORTHAND WRITER: "....that is the second witness statement 9 10 11
mind that she wants to use in order to cast doubt on the witness statement that we do have for Dr. Pocock, then I think she must make a decision if it is a privileged document, which it may well be, whether or not she wants to waive the privilege in that document. solicitor, you have to decide yourself and do think about it. If you want to refer to any previous communication between you or your solicitors and Dr. Pocock, then you are entitled to do so but you would be opening up everything that has passed between you or your solicitors, and Dr. Pocock. I think we would have to have an adjournment so that everything can be produced. That is the decision you have to make. legal advisers? a solicitor and it is undesirable that you should talk to your
12 MR. RAMPTON: Unfortunately, I did not know about it, of course, 13 14
14 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I think this is something, you are after all a
15 A. Sorry, that last comment, are you suggesting ---16 Q. If you are thinking of a witness statement, we cannot have 17
---suggesting that I am misleading the court?
18 A. You said if a document exists, Mr. Rampton. Are you 19 20 Q. No, no. 21 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Rampton, if you want to make a submission 22 23 24
22 A. And I need to make that, my Lord, without reference to my 24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I think you should because, as I say, you are
that that answer constitutes a waiver of privilege, perhaps I should ask Miss Hermitage to withdraw and you can make it in her absence.
25 MR. RAMPTON: Very well, my Lord. I think I have to make the
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON legal team during the evidence. a question and I have an answer that I cannot test.
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON submission. (In the absence of the witness) answer which is apt to cast doubt on the credibility of the witness statement that is before the court. She has done it by means of saying that he made an earlier witness statement which is not before the court in which he said he could not remember anything. I am in an unfortunate position, therefore. Either I leave it where it is, which is much my preferred route, but I take the risk, in doing that, that the court attaches weight to that answer. It is my judgment; it is not for me to ask your Lordship what weight you attach to it, of course. If the court is not likely to attach weight to that answer, then I will not press the submission. I think I probably need to talk to Mr. Eardley about it. My sense at the moment is that it is a waiver. If you refer to a privileged document and say, well, in that privileged document he gave a different statement to what he is giving now, that is probably a waiver. That would be my initial thought. But I am troubled about unearthing a whole load of documents which may not advance the case at all. mean that Dr. Pocock, who gave statements in some shape or
3 MR. RAMPTON: I am in an obvious difficulty because I have asked 5 A. Well, I think we do not waive privilege then, my Lord. 6 MR. PRICE: I am very hesitant to intervene at all in this but 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17
3 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Would you leave us for a moment? 5 MR. RAMPTON: Can I put it like this. The witness has given an
I simply do not know what really is being talked about. Waiver of privilege, as your Lordship knows, privilege is absolutely fundamental and it is at least a matter on which Miss Hermitage should be permitted to review the documents before she makes a decision. It is up to your Lordship whether you think she should be entitled to take legal advice about it. I think Mr. Rampton did not hear because she was speaking rather quietly, was that she would not wish to waiver privilege.
14 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Price, Miss Hermitage's response, which
18 MR. PRICE: She would not? 20 21 23 24
19 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: She would not and unless either of you wants 19
to make further submissions, I suggest we proceed on that basis. she said. There is another document, she said, in which he is nothing like as precise as this.
22 MR. RAMPTON: It is possible that she already has by saying what
24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Well, I am troubled about it as well. It would
25 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Right. We had better have exactly what the
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON form to both sides, as well as writing a letter, and who has been treated, in the submissions and questions of both sides so far, as a dispassionate observer whose word should be taken at face value, would have to be brought here, I think, to be questioned on whether he is telling a pack of lies, saying he can remember things he does not, and so forth, and the whole case is reopened. I would be most reluctant to go down that road.
1 2 A. Indeed.
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON
3 Q. Yes. Did you think it was an important letter when you saw 4
it?
5 A. (Pause) My Lord, I can't really answer that question. 6 Q. You cannot answer the question? 7 A. No. I can't remember what I thought when I saw it. 8 Q. I see. That is an entirely fair answer. It is, is it not, a 9 10 11 13 14 15 16 17
near contemporaneous record -- a summary, certainly, not a verbatim record -- but it is a summary of Dr. Pocock's memory of the meeting, and it is written the day after the meeting? in fairness, both the claimant and my husband have given evidence to suggest that the meeting was a lengthy meeting, it was two hours, and there are one, two, three, four paragraphs there. So, clearly, whilst the salient points may be there, it clearly is not contemporaneous.
10 MR. RAMPTON: So would I. 11 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I do not regard the answer to the question of 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
any great significance, I have to say, and I think it would be unfair to Miss Hermitage to attach much weight to the fact that she is herself legally qualified, in judging whether that answer was a waiver of privilege. I dare say many witness statements go through more than one version; and so far, I have had nothing in the case to lead me to suppose that Dr. Pocock has been doing anything other than doing his best to recall, seven years on -- with of course the advantage that we all have of his contemporaneous letter -- to say what he
12 A. Well, no, I wouldn't agree with that, Mr. Rampton. I think,
18 Q. I said it is nearly contemporaneous. 19 A. Well, there was a contemporaneous note which we asked the High 20
Commissioner for, and they lost.
can remember of the meeting. 22 MR. RAMPTON: Precisely. I am very grateful for that analysis, 23 which, I say with the greatest respect, accords with my own.
24 25
21 Q. Lost? 22 A. Well, that is the reason they gave us. 23 Q. Oh. I do not want to reopen that trap door. 24 A. You know, I apologise, but the fact of the matter is that it 25
It leaves the position as therefore this, that the witness statement and the letter stand as they are, and they do to a
is pertinent, that we did ask for a contemporaneous note from
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON large extent, as your Lordship has observed, match each other. Dr. Pocock cannot be cross-examined. So long as my learned friend is not going to cast doubt on the veracity of Dr. Pocock's statement in the light of what Miss Hermitage just said, I am content to proceed as we are. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: You cannot, can you, Mr. Price? It is your witness statement put in under the Civil Evidence Act. You cannot now be heard to say, "Well, Dr. Pocock probably did not remember anything much at all, whatever he may say in his statement"? statement in and I am not going to try and depart from it.
12 MR. PRICE: Absolutely not, no. I mean, we have put that 14 MR. RAMPTON: Nor am I. 15 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Shall we have the witness back and move on? 16 17 19
Right. (In the presence of the witness) Mr. Rampton.
18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: We are going to move on, Miss Hermitage. Yes, 18 20 MR. RAMPTON: Now, you have got open there page 196? 21 A. Yes, Mr. Rampton. 22 Q. I think I had got as far as, perhaps a little bit further, but 23 24 25
I had at least got as far as suggesting that this was actually quite an important letter from your and your husband's point of view. All right?
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON the British High Commissioner, of the meeting. Q. That is a perfectly sensible thing to have asked for. They were not forthcoming? A. They told us that because of restructuring or moving of offices, that they had been lost. Q. But I am still not quite following, Miss Hermitage, why -- I did use the words with some care -- as a near contemporaneous summary of the meeting, this is not an important document? A. I have agreed with you, Mr. Rampton. I consider that the document is important, but I don't agree that it contains everything in there that was said at the meeting and could possibly do so in four paragraphs. Q. Possibly be.... A. You could not possibly contain everything that was discussed at a two-hour meeting in four paragraphs. Q. But so far as your present case is concerned, Miss Hermitage, it omits every single thing that matters, does it not? A. In respect of? What does it ---Q. There is no undertaking that there should be no more defamatory articles? A. No, there is not. Q. No. There is no promise to sort brother Ben out, and there is no promise to pay your legal costs, is there? A. No.
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON 2 Q. All missing; and those were the things that mattered most, 3 were they not?
1 4 A. Well, as I have already said to you, I never ever thought that 5 Mr. Mengi would do any of these things. So, you have asked me 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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what I felt when I saw the letter. I can't remember. Q. I think your husband told us this morning -- they were my words, but he agreed with it, and I think I have got it right -- when he saw this, he went through the roof, and he rang up Dr. Pocock and complained about it? A. Well, that is my husband's evidence, Mr. Rampton. Q. Yes. To be fair, Miss Hermitage, it is normally you who puts pen to paper first, is it not, as between the two of you? A. In respect of what? Q. In respect of letters of complaint. A. My husband is a farmer. He had a farm to run. He is not a man of words. We discussed all our letters and, yes, I wrote on the computer most of them when he was with me, and he was shown them. I don't see what ---Q. We will get on a bit faster, if not better, Miss Hermitage, if you do not see a threat lurking behind every question. It was a perfectly innocent question. As between the two of you, it is usually you who does the writing? A. Yes, but not always. Q. So, you knew what he felt about this letter from Dr. Pocock?
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON non-journalists, business people -- about Mr. Reginald Mengi. Q. You had done at this time? A. Yes. Q. Why? A. He was the brother of Benjamin Mengi. Q. And so? A. Well, I do normally make it my business to find out about who we are going into business with. Q. Yes, yes. What difference does it make that he is the brother of Mr. Benjamin Mengi -- except that he might be useful in resolving a dispute; that of course I see. But you are not seriously telling me that because one brother behaves badly, so must necessarily the other, are you? A. I did not say that. Q. Of what relevance is it that he was Benjamin's brother? A. (Pause) We could see that there was a potential problem. Q. Why a potential problem? How did that present itself? A. Well, the first time it presented itself was when my husband was marched through the streets of Moshi with an AK47 in his head. Q. I am talking about Mr. Reginald Mengi. Please, Miss Hermitage, your war with Mr. Benjamin Mengi is no concern of mine. I quite understand what you mean by it, I quite understand how badly you were upset by it, I understand all
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1 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Did you not think it right to write to Dr. Pocock and say, 4 5
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON that. Will you answer my questions: what was it about Mr. Reginald Mengi in December 2005 that led you to say, "I
"This letter represents only a small part of what was agreed at that meeting"?
6 A. No. 7 Q. Why not? 8 A. What for? It was pointless. We had spoken to him on the 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 17 19 21 23
cannot believe a word he says"? 5 A. Okay. It was due to people that I had spoken to and facts 6 that I had come to learn.
7 Q. Facts you had come to learn? Gossip, in other words -8 gossip? 9 A. Well, if you are saying is it hearsay, then yes. 10 Q. Rumours, gossip, hearsay. Your husband thought he had landed 11 a big fish, did he not, at this meeting? He was 12
telephone. I never had any thoughts that anything that Mr. Mengi said to us would have been carried out; and what would be the point of putting it in a letter when we had already spoken to Mr. Pocock on the telephone? Mr. Pocock had said to me quite clearly, "I suggest that as soon as you are able, sell up your farm in Tanzania and get out to a much safer place where you can invest." Mr. Reginald Mengi said? be fair. the witness statement. Mengi.
flabbergasted, he told us in court this morning.
13 A. Did he? 14 Q. Yes, he did. 15 A. Well, that is his view. 16 Q. Were you not disappointed by the terms of Mr. Pocock's letter 17 then, in the light of what you ---18 A. No, Mr. Rampton. I have already answered the question. I was 19 not. 20 Q. You see, you did not think it worth writing to Mr. Pocock and 21 saying, "None of those promises that Mr. Mengi has made are in 22
16 Q. What reason did you have in December 2005 to mistrust anything 18 A. Well, I think that that is covered in my witness statement, to 20 Q. No. Well, tell me. I mean, there is no reason to go back to 22 A. I have spoken to many people in Tanzania about Mr. Reginald 24 Q. Sorry? 25 A. I have spoken to many people in Tanzania -- both journalists,
your letter"?
23 A. No. 24 Q. What about Mr. Mengi's letter on the next page -- did you see 25 that?
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What did you make of that when you got it? 4 A. I think it is a despicable letter.
1 5 Q. You thought it was despicable. Why was it despicable? 6 A. Because in paragraph 3, where he states, "I have had 7 preliminary discussions with Benjamin Mengi, who has in 8 9 10 11 12 13
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principle agreed to withdraw the case against Stuart if Stuart fully and unconditionally honoured the agreements," et cetera, et cetera, those agreements were extortionate, vile agreements, and the fact that your claimant repeated them and, on his own admission from his own evidence, did not even know what they involved.
14 Q. That is right. He is merely the messenger. 15 A. Well, he was not, was he? He set himself out to be a 16 negotiator. So, if he wants to seriously negotiate, he should 17
know what he is putting before us.
18 Q. What is a preliminary discussion, Miss Hermitage? 19 A. I would suggest it would be a discussion where both parties 20 have got some idea of what is going on. 21 Q. You did not trust Mr. Reginald Mengi simply because he was the 22 brother of the hated Benjamin; that is what it is, is it not? 23 A. No, Mr. Rampton, that is not the case. 24 Q. Or, perhaps a little bit more than that, some rumour and 25 gossip to Mr. Reginald Mengi's discredit. What is the matter
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON reported to you Mr. Mengi had said; is that right? A. I wouldn't say no. I would say we were encouraged by it. Q. Yes. That is a very encouraging paragraph, from your point of view, is it not? A. Well, okay. Q. What? A. Fine, yes, okay. Q. Is it or not? It is your evidence. A. Well, I have just told you what I thought about it. It would be if it was coming from somebody else. Q. So, Mr. Mengi's words are not worth the paper they are written on, his promises are not worth listening to; yes? Is that right? I am summarising. I do not want to be unfair. A. At that stage, I would say that was probably a little bit harsh; but certainly now, yes. Q. No, no, not now. You did not attach any weight to Mr. Pocock's report of what Mr. Mengi had said; is that right? A. I attached some. Q. And you did not attach any weight to the promises that your husband reported that Mr. Mengi had made; is that right? A. I attached some. Q. Some weight? A. Yes. Q. What weight to which promises?
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON with the proposal that is made in Mr. Pocock's letter of 14th December? Is it not a sensible approach? A. Sorry, what proposal? Q. The letter contains a proposal. A. That what? Q. If you read the third paragraph to yourself, you will see what. There are a number of proposals, in fact. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: The claimant's letter? MR. RAMPTON: No. Mr. Pocock's letter. THE WITNESS: Which paragraph in particular, Mr. Rampton? MR. RAMPTON: The third paragraph, please. I will read it out if you want, but we have heard it so many times it is tedious. A. "You made it clear", is that what.... Q. "You made clear your own position." Now, does that not -well, you read it to yourself and then I will ask the question. (Pause) Does that not contain the germ of a solution? It might be stillborn, of course, but is it not a very sensible proposal? A. It might be if it were coming from somebody else and not Mr. Mengi. Q. Why Mr. Mengi? You mean you had no faith whatever in what your husband had told you about what Mr. Mengi had said? A. I beg your pardon? Q. You had no faith or belief whatever in what your husband
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON A. To his offer to sort out the lease registration. Q. Yes. A. His brother's conduct, to pay our legal expenses, and to stop the defamatory publications. Q. So, you did attach weight to those promises? A. I just said, Mr. Rampton, I attached some. Q. But not very much, because of who it was who made the promises; is that right? A. Possibly, yes. Q. Yes. Why then, Miss Hermitage, if you would please turn to page 205 -- I have more questions about these letters a little later on, but as we are on the topic now -- why then, on page 205 -- you wrote this letter, I think, did you not? A. I beg your pardon? Q. This letter on page 205. A. I am in the same file, am I? Q. Yes, you are. It is a few pages on. It is a letter dated 19th April. I hope that is file 1.2. A. Yes. Q. 205. I think your evidence is that that is signed by your husband, and he obviously would have read it, no doubt. You actually wrote it; is that right? A. I typed it. Q. He dictated it, you typed it, or what?
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON A. No. I typed it on the computer. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Who composed it? A. Well, we composed it together, my Lord. Generally, we did compose things together. MR. RAMPTON: Do you remember now -- it may be you do not -- at the end of the third paragraph of this letter there appears a sentence, and this is addressed to Mr. Mengi: "You personally gave an undertaking that they" -- that is libellous articles -- "would cease." Who wrote that; whose words are those?
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON 2 Q. Some. So, you gave it some credit, which is why you included 3 it in this letter; is that right?
1 4 A. Well, I cannot tell you definitively why I put it in that 5 letter. The fact of the matter is that he said it and I had a
right to put it in the letter. 7 Q. I do not accept for one moment that he said it, 8 Miss Hermitage, as you know. I believe that what happened, or
6 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
12 A. Probably mine. 13 Q. Well, I am not understanding what they are doing there. 14 A. No. 15 Q. Why did you put them there, if you did not think that his 16 18
words were worth anything? they should not go into the letter.
17 A. Well, objectively, he said them. So, there is no reason why 19 Q. You were not there. I am sorry. You were not there. 20 A. No, but I believed what my husband said. 21 Q. I understand that is your evidence. We are coming back to 22 23 24
that. What I do not understand is why you should put into a document like this a reference to a promise that you did not believe would be carried out?
25 A. Well, again, I cannot tell you exactly what my thoughts were
I put it to you that this is what happened: Mr. Mengi was told about the defamatory articles -- he did not know about them -- he was told about them by your husband, and he said, "Well, I will look into that." That was reported back to you by your husband, and you took that and used it and transformed it into a promise or undertaking to stop the defamatory coverage. Is that right? A. No, it is not right. That really has -- there are two implications to that: one, I am sitting here lying to this court. Q. Yes. A. And that is as a repugnant suggestion as you are accusing me of. Q. I dare say, but it is my duty to put my client's case, Miss Hermitage. It does nothing to personalise these arguments. They are about evidence. A. Well, that is not the case, Mr. Rampton.
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON 2 Q. Mr. Mengi also gave evidence ---3 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Have leapt ahead a few years. I think 4 Mr. Rampton is also putting to you that the words "you
1 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON when I wrote the letter, but I would suggest that one possibility may have been that we -- and I cannot answer this with certainty -- that we may have been going through the motions pre-litigation, because at that time we did not realise how abusive the legal system was. Q. Did you think you might put a bit of pressure on him by putting that sentence in? A. Pressure for what? Q. Reminding him of something he said? A. Yes, but you are asking me if I was pressurising him. Pressurising him for what? Q. Well, I do not understand why, if you did not believe it, why you reminded him of the undertaking that you said he had given? A. I didn't say I didn't believe it. I believed implicitly what my husband said. Q. I think we are probably at cross purposes, Miss Hermitage. I thought your evidence was that you did not believe that Mr. Mengi would carry out his promises. A. And? Sorry? Q. Is that right? A. Well, we have just been through that, Mr. Rampton. You asked me did I put any credit on it, and I said I put some credit on it at that stage.
personally gave an undertaking they would cease", in the letter of 19th April 2006, are also deliberately false and that you are simply repeating that six years on. MR. RAMPTON: Yes. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: That you invented this ---A. Sorry. You are asking me did I invent that? MR. RAMPTON: Yes. You transformed the words ---A. Are you telling me or asking me? Q. My suggestion is that you transformed words like "I will look into it" into a formal undertaking to stop the coverage? A. I did not do that; and if I might just add, I don't actually see much of a difference between "I will look into it" as to what I am saying. I agree that they are mutually exclusive, but they were the words that I remember my husband saying and they are honestly replicated in that letter. I do not think we are too far apart with "I will look into that". Q. Are you now saying -- I am not saying that that is a thought that has just occurred to you; I am sure it has not, because this argument has been going on for a long time -- are you saying that there really is not any material difference between "I will look into it" and "I promise that it will
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON stop"? A. Absolutely not saying that. Q. Well, why are they so close together? What is it about them that gives them that proximity? A. Well, would you not think, if somebody says they are ---Q. No. A. Well, if somebody is printing viciously defamatory articles about another person and the owner of a newspaper says, "I will look into that," as a responsible media owner, he would find that they are defamatory and, presumably, put a stop to them. Q. That is Mr. Price's fault, Miss Hermitage. "Defamatory" does not mean false. A. I am aware of that, Mr. Rampton. Q. Well, he could look at them and decide they were defamatory but, having investigated them, find that they were true. A. Well, he would not do so had he investigated them properly. Q. You wrote to the managing editor on 24th February, which, I think, was only about a week after you got back to Tanzania, was it not? A. Page number, please? Q. Sorry. 199. A. Yes. To the best of my knowledge, I was in and out of the country. The passport stamps show that I went out on
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON 2 A. Oh, yes, this is supposed to have been -- well, this is an 3 article that I don't think was published on the Internet. So,
1 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
it was either sent to me by the British High Commissioner or by my husband. (Pause) Well, in actual fact, the article is dated 19th January. Yes, that is right. Q. Yes, it is. When did you leave for England? You will have to give me that date again. I do not have it. A. It appears from the stamps in my passport that it would have been the 16th from (inaudible) and arriving in the UK on the 17th. Q. 16th from Tanzania? A. To Kenya, yes. Q. So, you arrived in England two days before this article was published? A. If this was published on the 19th, yes. Q. Did you have your computer with you? A. Yes, Mr. Rampton. Q. You would? A. Yes. Q. I am afraid, Miss Hermitage, I do not travel with my computer. I find it a nuisance. But you had your computer with you? A. I had my computer with me, and I have a computer at home. Q. Were you trawling the Internet at that time to see if there was anything about you in Nipashe or the Guardian?
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON 16th January and came back on 17th February. Q. I am sorry to be an old bore, Miss Hermitage, but when you mutter into the witness box, I really cannot hear. I did not get that answer. You came back on the 17th, I think? A. I said it is difficult to decipher how many times I went in and out of the country, but my passport stamps show that I left Tanzania for Kenya on 16th January and returned on 17th February. Q. So, if that is right, this letter was written a week after you got back? A. Yes. Q. And it is a complaint about an article which had appeared on 19th January, is it not? A. Yes. Q. How did you know about the article that had appeared on 19th January -- because you were in England, were you not? A. Well, I would have to have a look and see what the article was first. Q. We can look at that. You will need another file for that. MR. PRICE: It is attached to the letter, although it is very difficult to read. MR. RAMPTON: It is not attached to my copy in a way that can -well, it may be it is sufficient, I do not know. It is at page 202.
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON
2 A. I have absolutely no idea what I was doing at the time. 3 Q. So, you do not know when you first learned about this article 4 6 7 9 10 11 12
or from whom? it would either have been from the British High Commissioner or from my husband. fatter witness file, number 2, which I think you have got underneath that one, at 10A, you will find a statement of Mr. Lema Orloma, which I think you have already told us you do not accept, but never mind for this purpose.
5 A. I cannot tell you definitively, no, but the likelihood is that
8 Q. I do not know if it helps. Where is Lema's statement? In the
13 A. Sorry, which file are we in? 14 Q. 10A. It is file 2. Ah, that is why you have not got it. Do 15 16 17 18 19
not bother putting it in the file. It is already in there. It does not matter. Let us just get on. Now, at the back of the statement there is an exhibit, which consists of, unless I am much mistaken -- it starts at page 186Q, I think, 186P of the exhibit.
20 A. Sorry. 186? 21 Q. P, for Peter. 22 A. I have 186Z, 186A. 23 Q. I think it is done alphabetically. 24 MR. PRICE: It is the internal numbering. 25 MR. RAMPTON: I see. In the bottom right-hand corner there should
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON be little scratchy letters. Are there?
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3 MR. PRICE: What is the number in the middle at the bottom? 4 MR. RAMPTON: Good suggestion. Thank you, Mr. Price. The big
black ink number at the bottom of the page is 2. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Yes. Have you got it now? 8 A. Yes, I have.
5 9 Q. Is it a download of the article of 19th January, headed "Moshi 10 businessman takes back coffee plantation"? 11 A. It appears to have come off a computer and it is dated 12 19th January. 13 Q. At the bottom of the page, that is the old IPP Media website, 14 is it not, the address? 15 A. I have no idea, Mr. Rampton. 16 Q. No? You do not know? 17 A. I don't know the internal workings. I am not being difficult. 18 I don't know the internal workings and operations of the IPP 19
website.
20 Q. You have used the IPP Media website often? 21 A. Well, I have gone into IPP Media on the Internet and clicked 22 on it, yes. 23 Q. That is the address you use to access it, is it not? 24 A. Well, you just type in "IPP" and it comes up. You don't type 25 in the web address.
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON managing editor of the Guardian newspaper, dated 24th February 2006, in which you complain about this article of 19th January and in which you say nothing whatever about the promise or undertaking that Mr. Mengi is alleged to have given in relation to media coverage? A. That is correct. Q. It is correct? A. It is, yes. Q. Why not? A. I have absolutely no idea. Q. I see. Turn over, please, to page 203. This is a letter written by you, but signed by your husband -- or typed by you, if you like, I do not mind, and signed by your husband -dated 25th March to Mr. Reginald Mengi. The first paragraph, have you got that? A. I have. Q. Good. The first paragraph mentions the meeting, but nothing about the promises or the undertaking, does it? A. No, I am aware of that. Q. Why not? A. I have absolutely no idea. Q. Miss Hermitage, you are not -- I will not say that, it is -I am baffled why you did not put it in that letter or the one before, but did put it in the letter of 19th April.
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON 2 A. I do not, I cannot make an excuse up. 3 Q. One possible reason is that it was a late afterthought, to try 4 and put a bit of pressure on Mr. Mengi by converting "I will
1 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON wrong -- is what looks like the date when it was downloaded, 13th May 2007? whether that is the date it was downloaded. you download this article? know. probability is that it was you who downloaded it? many articles, whether I downloaded this particular one ---page yours?
2 Q. Then on the right-hand side of the page -- tell me if I am
5 A. Well, there is certainly that date there. I don't know 7 Q. I can see that, Miss Hermitage. I am asking you this: did 9 A. Mr. Rampton, I am not being difficult. The answer is, I don't 11 Q. Right. It is amongst your disclosed documents, so the 13 A. I don't know, Mr. Rampton. You know, I have downloaded so 15 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Is the handwriting on the left-hand side of the 17 A. Yes, it is. 18 MR. RAMPTON: "All of it untrue and defamatory" -- that is you, is 19
it?
20 A. That is what it says, yes. 21 Q. It does look, Miss Hermitage, as if it is you that has 22 24
downloaded it? I am just saying I can't remember doing it.
23 A. It quite possibly is, Mr. Rampton. I am not saying it is not. 25 Q. Go back to page 199 of bundle 1.2. That is a letter to the
look into" into a formal promise to stop the articles. A. That is not the case, Mr. Rampton. Q. It was an important undertaking; otherwise you would not have bothered to mention it, would you? A. No. Q. No, to what? It was not important? A. No, it was an important undertaking, yes, indeed, yes. Q. Why not mention is straightaway? A. I have just told you, Mr. Rampton, it is in some letters, it is not in others. Q. There is only one letter which contains it and that is the letter of 19th April? A. To Mr. Mengi, yes. Q. Yes, to Mr. Mengi. A. Yes. Q. What other letters to Mr. Mengi have you mentioned it in? A. Did not say that. I said to Mr. Mengi that it is mentioned in only one letter. Q. Oh, you certainly came back to it with some force in 2009 and 2010, but we are now more or less in the period in question. This is early 2006, not very long after the alleged promise
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON was given -- about, two and a half months, something like that -- and it does not get a mention. In the context of an article which you are complaining about as being defamatory, why not? A. I just told you. Q. You do not know? A. I do not have an explanation for it. Q. When you are upset about something, Miss Hermitage (and, again, think not that this is a criticism because it is not), as many people do, you put pen to paper, do you not? You complain. A. Well, that is a pretty general question. I do like to write and I think it is a means of expressing yourself, yes. Q. Some of your letters are very long indeed. That is not a criticism. A. No. Q. Writing is a facility that you have and if you have a complaint, you like to expand upon it, do you not? A. Well, it depends on what I am complaining about, in all honesty. Q. There is -- I forget where it is, it is in one of these files -- there is a very, very long letter, I think. (Pause) Yes, it is this one. I am sorry about this, Miss Hermitage, but I do not want people to think that I am making this up;
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON not think it had been given. A. Well, that is simply not the case, Mr. Rampton. Q. You knew that he had said, "I will look into it" and that is all, is it not? A. No, Mr. Rampton, it is not. Q. Now, be patient with me, Miss Hermitage, I am trying to save time, in fact. (Pause) Yes, there is one other thing I would like to ask you before I come to what you were publishing in 2009 and 2010. That is going to take a little bit of time and it may be better, if his Lordship will agree, that I start this tomorrow morning. There is one thing I do want to ask you about. You said in your witness statement numerous times (and I wrote it down as quickly as I could when you were giving your evidence-in-chief), that the purpose of the website was three or four-fold. You and your husband were dreadfully hurt -- I am paraphrasing -- dreadfully hurt by your Tanzanian experience. No one would listen to you and you wanted to record what had happened and it gave you a voice. Yes? Then you said you wanted to warn others not to go and invest in Tanzania. A. I think, well, certainly, there were and there certainly are towards the more recent -- I mean, the website developed. It started and then it developed into something more than it was
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON file 5.2, page 236. A. Yes. Q. This is a formal complaint. It is in the form of a formal complaint, if you like, signed by you and it is dated 23rd December 2005. It runs through from 236-252, I think. Is that right? Make sure I have not put two documents together. (Pause) A. Yes, that is correct. Q. Yes. This letter we have just been looking at, to the Managing Editor of the Guardian, is quite a long letter, is it not? It is three pages. Again, I am bewildered, Miss Hermitage, that you simply say you cannot remember why you did not make any reference to the Chief Executive Officer's promise so stop defamatory articles. It would have been the obvious thing to do, would it not? A. Mr. Rampton, I am really not trying to be difficult, but you can put the question to me every which way and I simply cannot answer you honestly as to why it went into that letter -- did not go into that letter and not the next letter. Q. Well, I am going to put it (and, again, for the last time -- I have probably put it before, I am sure I have and I shall say it once again and then I will shut up about it until the end of the case), I am going to put it to you that it did not go into this letter or the next one simply because you did
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON when it started. I think it is only fair to say that, yes, I did want to warn others about investing in Tanzania. I do not think Tanzania is a safe place to invest. It has no rule of law, it has no courts, it has no police force and it has a President that does not stick to his word. are familiar with it,if you do not look at it every day), you open file, if you go right to the front of file 1.2. This is, at page 1, we see what I might call -- how would you call this? The title page of the website?
7 Q. Right. I will ask you if you will (and I have no doubt you
12 A. If you allow me to get there first. 13 Q. Yes, it goes backwards. That is it. The heading at the top, 14
"The Silverdale Farm Case."
15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Does that appear whenever you get the website up, if you do? 17 A. It will appear on every single posting. 18 Q. Yes. This tells the reader what he or she is going to learn 19
about, does it not?
20 A. Well, yes. It tells the reader what I have put there. 21 Q. Well, can I read it? "This is the story of British investors, 22 23 24 25
Stewart Middleton and Sarah Hermitage, driven from Tanzania by violence, abuse and intimidation instigated by Benjamin Mengi and facilitated by the police, judiciary and senior members of the Tanzanian government.
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON "Tanzania receives copious amounts of aid from the UK. In return, the country has abused British citizens. President Kikwete has made numerous promises to the British government to apply the rule of law to this case and has failed to do so." It is a big warning notice, amongst other things, is it not?
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON 2 A. Not exclusively. 3 Q. No, of course not exclusively, but that is one of its 4 functions, is it not?
1 5 A. One of its functions is to highlight what happened to us and 6 to suggest that it is not sensible to go and invest in
9 A. I do not really see -- it says what it is,you know. 10 Q. You want to warn people off doing business in Tanzania, do you 11 not? 12 A. Mr. Rampton, it is the story of us and how we were driven from 13 the country. It is not exclusively about warning investors
Tanzania. 8 Q. Did you, Miss Hermitage, recently give an interview to the 9 Sunday Times newspaper in this country?
7 10 A. If you are referring to the ---11 Q. I will show you the document. 12 A. No, I know, I have only given one interview to the 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
not to go to Tanzania. 15 Q. Who would be interested in knowing, for example, the British 16 government is wasting public money by investing in Tanzania?
14 17 A. Well, do not think that is -- I think a lot of people would 18 be, but I do not think that is really important. 19 Q. That is not what I mean. 20 A. Is it? 21 Q. "Tanzania receives copious amounts of aid from the UK. In 22 return, the country has abused British citizens." That is a 23
criticism of the British government, is it not?
24 A. Well, how so? 25 Q. That, I am afraid, I do not follow.
Sunday Times and that is Kate Mansey and she is talking on defamation. Q. Kate Mansey, yes, that is right. (Handed) It is dated 23rd October 2011, so when I said recently, that was not quite right. Is it an interview that you gave her, sort of thing? A. No, I did not give an interview. She wrote a piece, sent it to me and asked me if it was okay and it was passed ---Q. I am going to ask you where she got some of her information from. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Can I just read it first? MR. RAMPTON: I am sorry, my Lord, yes. (Pause) MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, I have read it. Thank you. MR. RAMPTON: It is only one little bit that I wanted to ask you
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON I mean, that is an objective fact. No, no ---No, but you are inferring something from my words. No, no, it could still be a matter for criticism. It might be a fact; I know not. A. Well, that was not the purpose of the posting. Q. What is the purpose? A. What it says. This is the story of how we were driven from the country by violence, abuse and intimidation instigated by Benjamin Mengi and facilitated by those state administrations that were mandated to protect us. Q. Full stop. So I am supposed to, if I am a reader, shrug my shoulders and walk away. Why do you want me to read it? A. You do not have to read it, Mr. Rampton. Q. Why do you want anybody to read it? A. Because I would suggest that it was not a good plan to go and invest in Tanzania. Q. You said, on oath, you wanted to warn others not to go to Tanzania and try and live there. A. Yes, that certainly was one of the reasons why I put it in there. Q. It is supposed to warn others. A. Sorry? Q. It is supposed to warn others, is it not? A. Q. A. Q.
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON about, really, Miss Hermitage. It is the right-hand side of the photograph of you; is that your former house in Moshi? A. Yes, it is. Q. "A millionaire media tycoon from Tanzania has won the right to sue a British couple in the High Court over an allegedly libelous blog written for a handful of friends and family." Is that true? A. I would say probably not, no. Q. Who told Miss Mansey that? A. Well, it certainly was not me. Q. It was not you? A. No. Q. You do not know where she got that information from? A. No, not without asking her, no. Q. You see, it is not looking written for a handful of friends and family. That is pretty good nonsense, is it not, Miss Hermitage? It is written for the whole world, is it not? A. You know, in all honesty, Mr. Rampton, I think when I first started writing my blog, it was an emotional release. Q. I understand that. A. So I was not actually thinking, "Who is this going to be read by." Q. I understand that. A. However, as the web developed, I will concede that it is now
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON directed at those people who have an interest in the case, that have an interest in human rights, have an interest in the rule of law and have an interest in investing in Tanzania. Q. Yes, just as some of us may be interested in poverty and corruption. Just in that way, interested. Important questions. Yes? (Pause) My Lord, would that be a convenient moment because I am going to go to the website tomorrow morning? MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. MR. RAMPTON: Also, the other documents. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. Mr. Price told me on Friday that there were going to be discussions as to whether Miss Burns was going to be required to appear in person. Have they ---MR. RAMPTON: I have one of the bits of information I asked for, which is when Miss Hermitage was in England. The other bit was there is a discrepancy of dates in Miss Burns' witness statement. I suspect it is just a typographical error. She wrote a letter dated 29th January and in her witness statement she said she sent it on 2nd January. I suspect just a nine missing, but I do not know. I am waiting to be told. MR. PRICE: I am told there is a typographical error in her witness statement. MR. RAMPTON: Is that the one? I do not think Mr. Stevenson knows, but he said is saying "yes".
1 2 3
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON very wrong. The website cross-examination will be slow, but I will still expect to finish it tomorrow. cannot sit late tomorrow. I need to finish by four o'clock. Certainly ten past four. about how long things are going to take and the only one i have got right so far was my opening. I think I got that right. If your Lordship would like to err on the safe side and sit at ten?
4 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Would you like to start earlier than 10.30? I 5 6
7 MR. RAMPTON: In that case -- I have always been a very bad judge 8 9 10 11
12 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Shall we start at ten? Is that all right? 13 A. My Lord, I am able to be here. It is just that my husband 14 15
travels up from Kent, so I am sure it will not matter if he is here half an hour late.
16 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: He can tiptoe in. 17 A. He can. 18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Miss Hermitage, you know what I am going to say 19 20
next: you cannot talk about the case overnight or, indeed, to anybody else.
21 A. Yes, I understand. 22 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: You can look over your witness statement, by 23 24 25
all means. So, we will start at ten o'clock tomorrow, with a view to finishing the witness tomorrow. Can I hand back the Guardian on Sunday?
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HERMITAGE - RAMPTON 2 MR. RAMPTON: It is actually ours. I think we ought to hang on 3 it.
1 4 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I think it was the claimant's side, but I will 5 not adjudicate on it. I have noted that on three pages there
HERMITAGE - RAMPTON MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Where is it? MR. RAMPTON: It is in paragraph 14. MR. PRICE: Which will be the 29th or something, should it? MR. RAMPTON: The letter is the 29th. She said she sent it on the second, which seemed to be inconsistent. MR. PRICE: Yes, it should read the 29th because that is the date on the letter that is exhibited. MR. RAMPTON: Could I ask your Lordship to change that then?
10 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Paragraph 14? 11 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, it should be 29 and not 2. In that case, I do 12 13
not require her to attend court. I am willing for her evidence to be read under the Civil Evidence Act.
14 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Splendid. In which case ---15 MR. PRICE: I have to say that she is not a Civil Evidence Act 16 17
witness. We have not filed -- she is a witness who is available for cross-examination if required.
18 MR. RAMPTON: I do not require to cross-examine her. 19 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Therefore, for the purpose of the inquiry it 20 21
was obviously -- this means Miss Hermitage is the last witness?
22 MR. PRICE: She is. 23 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Good. You will finish tomorrow, I am sure, Mr. 24
Rampton?
25 MR. RAMPTON: It is almost certain. Something would have to go
is an article about hazardous waste caused by the mining industry. 8 MR. RAMPTON: Four pages, actually; 2, 3, 8 and 9. 9 (Adjourned until tomorrow morning ten o'clock) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
6 7
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12 NOVEMBER 2012
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643:12,13,13 aware 602:7 635:13,15,16,17 635:25 682:2 699:16 724:15 730:20 B B 658:16,19 back 586:22 595:15 597:19 597:22 598:15 599:14 603:4 609:6,10,18,21 611:3 626:25 637:3,16 640:6 641:21 644:10 644:10 655:24 659:16 660:4,7 660:8,22 673:12 676:19 679:13 679:20 683:4,6 683:25 684:5 685:2 690:21 691:2,8 694:18 695:5,8 696:4,4 696:7 697:15 698:15 700:11 703:24 709:15 713:20 720:21 722:12 724:20 725:2,5,11 727:16 728:10 729:25 731:23 742:24 backwards 735:13 bad 588:6,9 676:25 683:21 742:7 badly 589:19 714:13,25 baffled 730:24 Bank 621:24 banks 587:21 BARNES 584:20 Barrick 655:18 656:6,16 657:5 657:7 basically 636:2 669:22 673:3 690:23 693:21 basing 642:25 basis 636:6,7 705:21 battle 692:7 BEAN 584:6 585:5,7,11 593:19 594:11 594:16,18 595:3 595:5 598:23
605:7,9 610:12 626:13 627:19 628:24 631:4,8 635:15 637:3 639:11,14,16,18 639:21 640:16 640:19 645:25 657:15 659:15 663:22 664:3 666:13 671:8 673:20 674:24 677:5,9,12,21 678:4,8 679:15 685:2,5 686:24 687:6,15,20 688:2,7 693:18 696:6 703:9 704:2,14,24 705:14,19,25 706:21 707:3,24 708:11 709:7,15 709:18 717:9 720:3 723:3,9 729:15 738:22 738:24 740:10 740:12 741:2,10 741:14,19,23 742:4,12,16,18 742:22 743:4 bear 677:24 beaten 694:7 becoming 601:3 bed 669:18 693:23 beg 649:4 685:6 697:21 701:23 702:2 717:24 719:15 began 658:9 begged 681:3 beginning 592:11 622:15,18,19 648:10 672:17 beginnings 665:3 behalf 592:17 606:9 607:12 615:5 620:20 649:25 668:9 704:2 behaved 635:11 behaves 714:13 behaviour 622:3 635:10 belief 717:25 believe 587:2,13 587:19,25 599:12 603:21 603:25 611:21 706:13 715:4 720:24 721:13 721:16,19 722:8 believed
589:4,18 629:23 642:13 660:15 720:20 721:16 belong 642:20 Ben 631:17 711:23 BENCH 584:1 benefits 697:8 Benjamin 587:5 595:10 600:23 605:5,10,12,19 605:23 607:20 608:5 611:2,3,7 613:3 616:15 617:24 618:3,4 621:13 631:20 632:7 633:12 635:3,15,17,21 638:11 692:6 694:10 702:8 714:6,11,23 716:7,22 735:23 737:11 Benjamin's 701:3 714:16 Bernard 650:24 651:3 best 616:19 644:14 650:17 651:2 654:4,10 661:13 669:21 708:18 724:24 Beta 649:23 better 621:19 625:18 632:13 705:25 712:20 734:11 bewildered 733:12 big 656:13 715:11 728:4 736:7 bigger 612:15 birth 588:23 bit 591:20 595:15 599:7 660:21 674:7 695:23 702:5 709:22 712:20 716:24 718:15 721:7 731:4 734:10 738:25 740:16 bits 740:15 black 728:5 blacken 684:7 blackmail 697:25 blocked 689:17 blog 694:21 739:7 739:20 blogs 599:17 bluntly
615:18 648:9 bold 642:23 books 641:21 bore 725:3 boss's 652:8 bother 622:13 727:15 bothered 629:25 731:8 bottom 621:20 632:17 646:24 647:14 655:14 656:21 727:25 728:3,5,13 bought 610:25 box 693:4 725:4 break 627:20 631:4 657:18 687:19 breakdown 586:20,23 691:9 Breed 584:19 bribe 678:25 bribing 682:8 briefcase 678:20 678:23 682:7 briefly 586:19 601:6 689:22 702:18 bright 630:14 641:19 bring 611:4 British 599:24 600:13 601:21 601:23 607:6 622:2 623:8 627:16 690:6 700:2 711:2 726:4 727:6 735:21 736:3,4 736:15,22,23 739:6 broadcast 586:7 broken 603:12 619:6 629:21 694:9 brother 588:16,21 589:2,8,8,15 592:8 595:10 596:11,13,19,23 598:4,8 600:25 602:25 603:22 604:2,7,23 605:22 608:5 611:6 612:24 613:14 614:23 616:14,18 618:21 622:5 625:12,12,13,20
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 746] 679:8 constitutes 706:22 consult 641:11 654:9 consulted 660:13 contacted 588:14 596:16,17,18 contain 711:15 717:17 contains 619:15 711:11 717:5 731:15 contemporaneous 637:6 708:20 710:9,17,18,19 710:25 711:8 content 599:23 600:12 628:24 629:2 667:21 692:23 709:6 contentious 599:13 contest 651:7 context 612:20 631:12 732:3 continue 615:6 620:4 664:2 684:17,21,22 continued 658:8 665:8 continuing 618:24 696:15 continuous 664:19,24 contract 648:3 660:10 663:16 663:17 684:14 contrary 700:17 contributed 587:19 contributing 682:20 convenient 627:20 657:13 703:21 740:8 conversation 586:2 591:8 607:22 610:24 611:7 616:10 conversations 606:21 607:16 converted 625:23 converting 731:4 conveyed 604:6 copied 613:21 617:9 632:21 copies 585:12 copious 690:7 736:2,21 copy 585:2 593:7 594:13 599:21 617:10 618:11 654:23,25 661:3 725:23 cordial 597:3 core 700:13 corner 624:13 727:25 correct 585:18 586:14 592:12 592:18 595:20 595:23,25 597:13 608:12 610:5,7 613:22 615:7 616:5 618:7 623:23 629:9 631:24 632:24 637:22 638:22 640:12 640:20 644:14 663:22,23,24,25 698:24 702:14 730:7,8 733:9 corrected 623:12 correctly 622:20 648:11,20 656:14 679:24 correspondence 603:11 corruption 649:15 653:21 657:23 658:5,7,12 664:15,15,17,20 664:23 665:10 665:11,15,21 666:3 680:19,21 692:19 698:11 740:6 costs 590:3,3 591:16 598:9 607:20 613:14 616:14 619:11 621:12 622:4 638:21,24,24 639:2 701:2 711:24 counsel 679:15 counted 674:5 counter-offer 636:8 country 587:11 599:14 690:2,7 690:16,20 694:12 697:10 724:25 725:7 736:3,13,22 737:10 738:9 couple 641:16 676:21 689:12 739:6 courageous
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
686:17 696:15 702:13 703:4 710:9 718:16 729:5 731:23 734:23,23 737:21 739:11 742:6 certainty 721:4 cetera 716:9,10 chair 609:10 chaired 656:4 challenge 681:22 chance 680:15 Chancery 584:16 change 741:9 changed 683:18 character 666:20 characterise 617:15 characteristics 681:20 charges 603:20 check 640:20 663:4 674:21 680:16 chemical 587:22 Cherer 584:15 chief 602:8 673:16 675:18 733:14 chooses 694:16 chop 693:21 chronology 623:9 church 608:20,22 Chuwa 643:7 circle 647:14 681:5 circles 680:20 circumstances 690:3,19 Citizen 645:19 citizens 736:3,22 city 651:20 Civil 709:8 741:13 741:15 claim 584:1 627:16 679:19 claimant 584:10 584:19 588:15 588:20,22 589:6 589:7,24 596:15 596:18 597:25 598:7 600:24 603:18,25 609:4 609:9 618:19 620:3 632:9 635:18,22 636:2 638:4,8 649:14 649:16,19 651:15 654:20 671:20 672:13
672:14,15,22 673:14 674:2,13 677:10,22 678:14,18,20 682:3,6 704:3 710:13 716:11 claimant's 587:6 588:17 603:22 651:17,17,19,21 652:8,10 653:20 657:23 658:5 665:21 678:17 703:6 717:9 743:4 clarify 686:21 clear 588:22 614:19 618:21 631:10 638:12 649:13 662:16 697:18 717:14 717:15 clearer 698:6 clearly 586:4 698:5 710:16,17 713:13 clicked 728:21 client 610:13 696:14 client's 694:16 722:22 clip 644:22 673:22 674:6 686:15 close 724:4 cock 682:16 coffee 626:25 627:16,17 728:10 coffin 608:21,25 608:25 609:4,7 coherent 610:10 610:17,18 coincide 686:18 collapse 659:16 colleagues 641:12 641:18 672:25 coloured 657:2 come 586:22 588:22 590:6 602:16 603:4 628:18 642:3 643:2,15 653:16 655:24 660:7,16 669:7,16 672:3 673:3 679:20 681:24 682:13 683:4 690:17,17 703:24 715:6,7 728:11 734:9 comes 613:12 622:14 629:9
728:24 coming 672:6 680:10 684:17 717:20 718:11 720:21 comment 606:24 606:25 671:17 706:15 comments 589:11 commiserate 608:10 commiserating 588:20 608:6 609:8 Commission 607:6 615:11 623:8 Commissioner 588:14,17 592:14 601:21 607:7 700:3 701:22,24 702:5 702:6,10 710:20 711:2 726:4 727:6 common 671:4,5 673:5 675:11,13 675:14,15 678:13 681:4,5 communication 704:16 communications 691:4 699:11 company 635:10 655:7 comparison 667:22 compiled 675:9 complain 615:18 619:23 620:17 621:7 730:3 732:12 complained 633:17 712:10 complaining 617:2 695:25 732:4,20 complains 622:25 626:24 627:3 complaint 605:6 605:11 622:23 712:15 725:13 732:19 733:4,5 complete 637:18 637:19 668:17 670:23 671:17 672:10 677:22 completely 620:2 635:12 compose 720:5 composed
720:3,4 compound 683:23 computer 712:18 720:2 726:17,21 726:22,23,23 728:11 concede 739:25 conceivable 697:11 concern 648:2 671:12 683:15 714:23 concerned 596:16 601:22 602:24 670:25 696:18 702:14,15 711:17 concerning 635:23 concerns 599:24 600:13 614:2 concluded 617:15 concludes 687:16 conditions 631:21 631:22 condolences 618:10 conducive 683:24 conduct 587:18 701:21 719:4 conference 649:21 649:24,25 655:20,23,23 658:11 686:10 conferences 649:9 650:8 651:9 653:8 686:4,7 confident 680:23 confine 667:10 confirm 662:5,6 confirming 648:6 confirms 702:22 confronted 628:6 confuse 696:17 confused 594:23 confusing 660:21 consensus 675:25 consider 587:4 627:22 694:13 694:15 696:14 697:11 711:10 considerable 665:9,14 666:2 consideration 632:3,4 considered 680:20 689:18 consisted 608:4 consistent 701:20 consists 727:17 constant
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 747] 654:13 655:25 684:14 684:15 destroyed 694:9 detail 591:3 610:14 695:22 details 593:13,17 632:5,9 developed 734:24 734:25 739:25 dictated 719:25 died 610:6 difference 714:10 723:16,24 differences 596:20 different 638:6 641:18 652:5 655:4,8 658:2 666:18 672:25 674:9 675:20 681:4 707:20 differently 662:17 difficult 599:21 692:13 725:6,22 728:17 729:9 733:17 difficulty 705:3 diminishing 622:6 diplomatic 592:6 direct 596:16 directed 614:3 632:18,19 649:19 740:2 direction 649:18 directly 595:13 678:18 director 592:22 635:9 642:6 643:3 645:11,18 647:10 649:17 650:21,22 651:6 656:9 661:3,14 disagree 638:16 disagreed 642:11 disappointed 715:16 disappointment 616:7 disbelieve 597:7 disclosed 729:11 disclosure 673:22 discourteous 688:5 discovered 586:12 discredit 605:5,9 605:10 716:25 discrepancy 740:17 discuss 588:16 621:10 631:6 657:17 668:18 669:11,13 675:18 discussed 596:17 663:8 668:21,23 668:25 669:16 702:18 711:15 712:17 discussion 604:6 612:6 616:12 620:5 632:8 636:6,7 656:8 656:12 678:15 684:15 716:18 716:19 discussions 595:21 618:3 631:16,20 716:7 740:13 disgusted 620:2 dispassionate 708:4 displayed 608:21 dispute 588:16 592:9 595:9,10 595:22 596:13 596:23 600:22 600:25 601:13 608:5 613:14 702:8 714:12 distance 652:19 distinctly 589:25 590:4 621:11 distraught 610:8 distressed 610:13 distributed 662:14 distributing 662:19 divider 593:6 DIVISION 584:1 document 609:24 632:14 645:2 646:17,25 647:13 704:8,11 704:13 705:23 706:13,18 707:19,19 711:9 711:11 720:23 738:11 documentation 635:18 documents 584:25 698:16 705:10 707:22 729:11 733:7 740:11 dogs 690:22 doing 585:13 602:22 611:25
642:11 course 606:6 627:9 637:19 664:3 688:2 696:18 699:15 702:7 706:12 707:15 708:19 714:12 717:18 738:3 court 584:1,16 589:2,9,15,16 590:2 591:5,16 593:7 598:8 611:15 613:3 625:10,15 628:6 629:17 636:3 637:2 638:1 643:5,6,7 650:4 654:23 670:7 677:20 680:24 681:16,24 682:13 684:8 687:5 688:1 692:11,16,16 694:13,20,24 696:3,16 698:6 698:25 706:19 707:7,9,13,15 715:12 722:18 739:6 741:12 courthouse 609:3 courts 584:2 611:4 735:5 cover 586:16 613:14 669:8 673:2 coverage 593:25 602:18 611:11 611:13,18 612:8 614:7,8 615:21 616:14 625:14 625:19,24 629:14,14 630:15,22 639:4 639:5 664:21 665:14 666:2 667:22 671:24 722:15 723:14 730:6 covered 673:5 713:18 covering 673:7 created 657:7 683:24 credibility 707:6 credit 587:20 721:24,24 722:2 credited 674:9 critical 657:10 criticise 619:8
620:13 criticism 732:10 732:16 736:23 737:5 cross 721:18 cross-examinati... 627:5 633:17 741:17 742:2 cross-examine 632:13 741:18 cross-examined 591:2 644:2 692:2 709:3 cross-listing 655:19 656:6,16 Curiously 703:15 current 596:10 cut 690:14 D D 584:23 593:6 613:17 701:6 daily 649:9,11 655:4,9,21 656:8 damage 694:17,18 damaging 592:24 593:24 599:25 600:14 601:2,11 dangers 692:17 Dar 595:24 597:23 620:8 656:17 dare 708:15 722:22 date 586:3,8,9 600:6 630:9,10 646:25 647:4 660:13 661:9 662:7 663:18 664:6,9 676:15 676:16 726:8 729:3,5,6 741:7 dated 595:21 623:19 645:3,13 645:22 646:5 647:10,17 654:25 658:25 662:22 676:22 719:18 726:6 728:11 730:2,15 733:5 738:15 740:19 dates 595:3 629:5 629:10,13 644:13 660:7 662:3 740:17 Datoo 648:21 649:10 664:12 666:8 668:12 Datoo's 650:11
David 585:15 643:11 day 584:23 585:9 613:18 620:9 628:5 633:19 653:8 659:3 663:8 668:19,20 668:25 694:8 695:23 710:11 735:8 days 618:20 619:14 626:19 656:7 679:12 726:14 day's 653:13 668:3 deaf 692:13 dealing 585:23 586:6 dealt 649:3,5 666:8,8 death 694:4 deceased 608:21 608:24 December 586:3 588:5,18 592:22 594:25 595:8 603:18 609:18 609:21 623:8,25 631:13 633:18 644:9 647:5 663:12 664:10 713:16 715:3 717:3 733:6 decide 704:15 724:16 decided 642:2 decipher 725:6 decision 633:8 704:11,21 705:11 decisive 687:2 dedicated 675:3,6 675:23 676:8 677:14 deeply 631:12 defamation 601:16 603:19 622:6 738:14 defamatory 589:4 589:10,17 598:3 598:11 601:11 601:16 602:7 606:12 626:18 696:11 699:21 700:19 702:16 711:21 719:5 722:10,14 724:8 724:11,13,16 729:18 732:4
733:15 defence 626:16 627:4 Defendant 584:12 584:21 defending 701:3 deficient 633:18 define 642:19 665:12,16 definitely 601:15 630:20 definition 662:16 664:22 683:16 698:6 definitively 722:4 727:5 degree 693:17 delay 679:12 delayed 647:24 679:11 deliberately 723:6 delivered 662:8 demand 632:6 635:8 636:7,9 demanding 635:9 demands 603:21 632:5,10,23 633:4,13 635:4 demoralised 629:18 denies 599:22 600:11 666:7 depart 709:13 departed 589:22 department 647:5 648:10,17 649:20 652:22 655:3 687:12 departments 666:11,15,16 depends 732:20 deputy 642:15 649:17 650:15 650:24 651:5 653:22,23 654:6 654:12 657:24 657:25 660:14 661:4 667:7 670:17,18,24 671:3,9,10 derogatory 602:24 604:18 604:22,24 describe 609:3 described 678:5 679:14 682:24 Designation 647:5 designed 692:4 despicable 716:4 716:5,5 despite
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 748] 693:22 exchange 673:4 exclusive 695:12 723:17 exclusively 736:13 738:2,3 excuse 661:5 731:2 Executive 602:8 733:14 exercise 618:18,25 exhaustive 678:7 exhibit 644:23 662:21 727:17 727:19 exhibited 741:8 exhibits 644:22 660:22 exists 706:14,18 expand 732:19 expect 629:10 742:3 expectation 700:18 expected 625:18 expenses 719:4 experience 651:9 692:4,5 734:19 experienced 653:6 697:10 experiences 586:16 expired 663:16,17 explain 608:19 635:3 642:3 explained 610:24 658:3 698:5 explanation 732:8 explanations 618:23 explored 702:23 export 590:5 expos 657:7 expressed 599:24 600:13 expressing 732:14 expression 616:19 625:22 extend 669:12 extensive 627:5 extent 701:19 709:2 extortionate 716:10 eye 656:22 eyes 664:23 e-mail 586:12,13 F fabricated 682:11 face 694:2 708:5 facilitated 695:13 735:24 737:11 facility 732:18 fact 586:10 587:19 589:19 594:7 597:22 605:2 618:19 620:13 628:4 635:14,17 640:19 651:8,11 652:15 654:14 663:12 684:15 697:7 708:13 710:24 716:11 717:8 722:5 726:5 734:8 737:2,6 facts 715:5,7 failed 629:21 736:6 failure 624:21 fair 614:24 615:12 632:13 646:16 689:19 710:8 712:12 713:19 735:2 fairly 611:12 686:12 fairness 710:13 faith 717:22,25 faithfully 625:8,9 false 594:7,8 604:9,13 680:16 723:6 724:14 falsity 630:19 familiar 735:8 family 609:5 641:11 694:15 739:7,17 far 596:16 597:5 602:24 614:7 621:10 638:25 674:7 682:2 686:8 696:18 702:14 708:4,16 709:22,23 711:17 723:20 742:9 farm 590:6 591:9 610:25 614:5 627:18 628:9 693:10 694:9 695:12 712:16 713:14 735:14 farmer 712:16 farmhouse 691:3 faster 712:20 fatter 727:9 fault 591:17 724:13 favourable
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
662:18 669:14 707:12 708:18 708:18 720:13 727:2 729:24 736:10 dollars 635:8 domain 696:10 door 651:17 652:10 710:23 double-page 656:25 doubt 615:6 622:16 692:4 704:9 707:6 709:4 719:22 735:7 download 728:9 729:8 downloaded 729:3,6,12,13 729:14,22 downtown 652:15 Dr 592:21 593:19 593:20,21,21,24 594:24 595:19 595:22 596:14 596:18 601:4 606:15,17 613:19 616:9 617:9 620:10 621:4 630:24 637:4,10 701:7 702:19 704:10 704:17,19 706:6 707:25 708:18 709:3,5,9 710:10 712:10 712:25 713:3 drafted 623:10,12 623:20 draw 585:22 dreadfully 689:24 734:17,18 dreamt 701:16 driven 690:20 735:22 736:12 737:9 due 715:5 duly 588:16 duplicate 647:3 duty 722:22 dying 694:11 E E 584:23,23 640:16 Eardley 584:19 677:17 686:21 707:17 Eardley's 706:5 earlier 596:11
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695:12 702:14 et 716:9,10 Europe 690:18 691:2 evening 618:19 evenings 653:4 event 653:5,7 669:6 events 607:19 671:24 673:4 675:17,20 676:3 eventually 642:25 everybody 587:15 593:7 596:8 670:7 evidence 584:23 591:5,6,8 606:20 608:18 624:5 628:18 641:4 642:3 650:4 651:7 657:16,17 660:9 676:7 681:20 682:3,4,9 687:16 694:24 695:18 697:14 698:17,21 700:16 705:2 709:8 710:14 712:11 716:12 718:9 719:21 720:21 721:19 722:24 723:2 741:13,13,15 evidence-in-chief 734:16 evidently 612:7 633:22 exact 629:10 662:7,18 700:24 exactly 588:18 608:2 611:11 640:11,13 648:19,24 651:22 652:2 660:6 661:18 664:9 699:25 700:16 705:25 720:25 exaggeration 690:15 EXAMINED 585:16 639:24 689:3 example 619:11 654:18 683:18 736:15 exceeding 702:15 exceedingly
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 749] give 586:8 594:14 597:21 606:20 624:15 628:18 630:9 632:11 642:3 643:14 675:16 677:18 680:15 684:11 687:13 697:14 698:6,17,21,22 700:10 726:8 738:8,18 given 593:17 619:11 624:17 626:19 650:4 662:12 664:20 681:4 707:5 710:13 721:15 730:5 732:2 734:2 738:12 gives 612:20 692:14 724:5 giving 625:10 707:20 734:15 go 585:3,17,22,24 586:6 595:15 596:19 597:14 598:15 600:4 609:18 622:15 625:18 627:23 637:3,16 640:6 640:18 649:23 650:12 651:14 654:8 660:22 666:23,23 667:16 668:6,15 673:12 675:20 676:2,5 681:9 681:18 683:6,23 683:25 687:24 690:5 694:6 696:4 697:4 698:15 708:8,16 713:20 720:18 729:25 733:20 733:25 734:21 735:9 736:14 737:17,19 738:6 740:9 741:25 goes 611:10 614:18 615:3 696:4 735:13 going 587:16 604:3 608:4 610:14 620:23 625:5,6 626:8 628:11 629:16 638:10 640:7 644:7 656:13 669:6,8 673:21 673:25 684:24 687:2 693:24 709:4,13,18 714:9 716:20 721:4 723:23 733:21,24 734:10 735:18 738:20 739:22 740:9,13,14 742:8,18 good 586:24 588:6 588:8 590:6 591:9 592:6 597:5 601:2 602:22 641:21 653:6 659:12 687:19 690:8 728:4 730:18 737:17 739:17 741:23 goodwill 616:19 gossip 715:7,8,10 716:25 governance 690:8 government 599:25 600:14 690:6 692:19 735:25 736:5,16 736:23 Governor 622:2 granted 663:10 grateful 708:22 great 708:12 greatest 708:23 grieving 610:3 ground 608:4 group 648:25 668:13 growing 590:5 guarantee 615:4 guaranteed 669:7 669:16 Guardian 594:13 594:20 622:23 624:14 626:23 642:6,7,15 643:3,14 644:4 644:5,6,13 645:15 646:18 647:19 648:5,12 649:10 650:18 650:20 651:4,9 652:7,22 653:8 653:22 654:13 654:18,25 655:3 655:4,4,6,9,9,9 655:11,21 656:5 656:8,10,14 657:24,25 659:3 659:5,24 660:5 661:9,11 662:14
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709:4 friends 587:17 641:11,17,23 691:3 739:7,16 frivolous 589:9 697:20 front 619:19 632:14 639:25 640:3 644:22 649:14 654:5 656:2,5,20 667:3 668:19,21 668:23,25 669:7 669:8,12,17 671:12 685:7 735:9 fulfilled 635:20 full 586:25 617:15 651:4 654:7,15 656:15 677:16 678:20 682:7 737:13 fully 592:13 614:6 635:24 716:9 full-time 651:16 683:20 functions 738:4,5 Fund 663:10 fundamental 705:9 funeral 591:25 592:4 608:10,14 608:19,20,23 further 609:6 623:5 636:8 640:6,18 643:11 677:19 705:20 709:22 future 627:19 641:20 G G 584:23 gain 587:20 604:9 604:13,16,17 gate 694:9 gathering 680:25 gatherings 680:25 general 598:11 644:8 656:17 659:16 675:25 676:3 732:13 Generally 720:4 generous 678:14 genuine 662:9 genuinely 602:20 germ 717:17 getting 589:2,12 589:21 660:15 684:21 gist 638:23
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 750] inaccurately 593:13,18,22 inaudible 651:20 660:18 679:6 726:10 incidents 679:14 included 722:2 including 649:14 662:19 675:18 inconsistencies 690:10 inconsistency 699:24 inconsistent 741:6 increased 648:3 incredible 587:8,8 incurred 701:3 independent 642:10 643:16 industry 654:20 657:11 743:7 inferring 737:4 infers 638:14 influence 611:4 influential 641:22 inform 647:18 661:10 687:23 information 620:7 628:21 629:7 653:24 666:4 673:4 679:5 680:17 682:11 738:20 739:14 740:15 informed 588:15 596:5,9 607:2 633:7 635:22 654:16 informing 692:17 info@martenw... 584:17 ing 682:18 ingratiate 700:2 initial 707:21 ink 728:5 innocent 712:22 inquiry 741:19 insisted 642:22 instant 699:20 instigated 602:25 735:23 737:10 instructed 584:19 584:20 instructions 628:25 insulted 604:2,2 intention 603:7,15 intentions 692:8 interacting 679:21 interest 672:7,13 682:17 740:2,3 740:3,4 interested 736:15 740:5,6 interesting 703:4 interests 600:2,15 601:2 654:20 interfere 602:17 internal 727:24 728:17,18 internally 662:14 internet 694:22 726:3,24 728:21 interpretation 671:21 intervene 595:10 596:12 614:23 616:18 705:6 intervened 595:9 intervention 594:2,24 interview 738:8 738:12,17,18 intimidation 614:3 735:23 737:10 intrinsic 698:14 introduced 596:14 invent 723:10 invented 723:9 invention 671:17 672:10 invest 690:6 713:15 734:21 735:4 737:18 738:6 investigated 724:17,18 investigative 642:8 investing 692:18 735:3 736:16 740:4 Investment 592:22,23 investor 626:19 627:7 investors 601:23 735:21 736:13 invitation 632:12 involved 601:16 601:19 667:4 681:15 716:13 IPP 592:24 599:23 600:12 602:6,8,10 622:7 645:11 649:10 652:16
662:15 664:18 664:24 665:13 665:23 666:25 667:5 669:3 670:3 671:5 672:11 673:6,12 675:7,10 676:15 676:18 678:7,14 679:7 682:16,19 682:20 683:4,10 683:18,21 684:9 684:18,18,20,22 684:25 686:4,9 686:19,20 689:15 695:25 726:25 730:2 733:11 742:25 guests 608:22 H hacked 694:4 half 621:21 643:16 651:10 652:21,25 663:20 732:2 742:15 half-baked 615:19 Hamid 651:16 hand 585:2,10 635:21 677:25 680:19 742:24 handed 654:24 655:17 704:4 738:15 handful 739:7,16 hands 589:24,25 handwriting 646:20 647:15 729:15 hang 670:15 743:2 happen 666:25 669:17 679:22 695:14 happened 603:17 608:19 615:7 617:21 619:25 624:19 625:8,11 626:2 665:23 684:13 689:25 690:17 698:13 722:8,9 734:20 738:5 happening 668:20 690:23 happy 656:5 692:10,14 harassment 589:2 589:9,15 598:4 603:19 612:24 628:6
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722:1,8,23 723:1 724:1,13 725:1,3 726:1 726:21 727:1 728:1 729:1,7 729:21 730:1,23 731:1 732:1,9 732:24 733:1,13 734:1,7 735:1 735:22 736:1 737:1 738:1,8 739:1,2,18 740:1,16 741:1 741:20 742:1,18 743:1 Hermitage's 703:15 705:14 herring 704:4 hesitant 705:6 high 584:1 588:14 588:17 592:14 601:21 607:6,7 615:11 617:2 623:8 700:3 701:22,24 702:5 702:6,10 710:19 711:2 726:4 727:6 739:6 highlight 738:5 highly 587:10,11 588:2,2 history 693:12 home 620:12 691:8 726:23 honestly 723:19 733:19 honesty 732:21 739:19 honour 622:5 honoured 716:9 hope 594:15 599:8 599:21 624:23 624:24 646:17 719:19 hopeful 625:2 horses 690:22 hospital 687:24 hostile 592:3 hour 742:15 hours 608:3,8 637:7 710:15 house 584:15 588:17 694:9,11 739:3 HQ10D04585 584:1 HRM 663:4 huge 616:7 683:25 human 740:3 humanity 605:20 humiliating
692:5 hung 690:14 hurt 689:24 734:18,18 husband 689:12 691:9 694:6 697:7,9 698:17 698:21 699:8,14 699:19 700:6,17 702:7,13,17 710:13 712:7,16 714:19 715:10 717:23,25 718:21 719:22 720:20 721:17 722:11,13 723:18 726:5 727:7 730:13,14 734:17 742:13 husband's 709:24 712:11 hypocrisy 692:18 I Ichwa 655:21 idea 617:4 630:14 702:12 716:20 727:2 728:15 730:11,22 imagine 606:24 immediate 660:13 immediately 586:20 615:14 660:4,7 implicates 682:3 implications 722:17 implicitly 721:16 importance 628:23 642:17 642:23 701:13 important 594:9 614:12 615:20 616:2 628:20 629:15 641:17 642:24 643:2 653:5 668:3 680:12,13 681:16 698:8 702:3 709:24 710:3 711:9,11 731:7,10,11 736:18 740:6 importantly 683:20 impossible 587:20 689:17 695:15 695:24 inability 614:4 inaccurate 602:6 626:17
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 751] 742:5,15 latest 686:17 law 690:3,9 696:25 735:5 736:5 740:4 laws 663:4 lawyer 645:22 lead 656:2,5,6 708:17 leapt 723:3 learn 715:6,7 735:18 learned 628:16 681:23 709:3 727:3 lease 589:12,21 598:6 613:5 614:5 616:14 635:19,20 700:22,24 719:2 leave 646:22 647:2 663:6,9 676:19 703:24 707:3,11 726:7 leaves 694:5 708:24 leaving 586:20,21 589:24 598:6,7 lecturer 642:9 led 665:5 715:3 left 586:17 589:22 615:20 616:11 637:20 642:7,14 648:23 651:3 675:12 682:19 689:12,13 694:10 725:8 left-hand 729:15 legal 590:3 598:9 614:2,22 616:17 622:4 627:7 638:2,13,21,24 639:2 689:17,18 701:2,4 703:18 703:20 704:23 705:2,12 711:24 719:4 721:6 legally 614:5,21 616:16 700:22 708:14 legitimately 610:25 Lema 585:3 695:16 727:11 Lema's 696:8 727:8 lending 702:6 length 693:17 lengthy 710:14 letter 592:21 593:3,4,22,24 593:25 594:11 594:24 595:18 603:23,24 607:10,12 613:18 614:6,15 615:8,18 616:7 617:3,5 618:11 618:20 619:15 619:24 620:2 622:22,23 623:5 623:9,19 624:25 625:4 626:24,24 631:13 632:21 633:18 635:4 636:2 637:4,21 643:14 645:8,10 646:3,4 647:9 647:12,22,25 648:6 660:13,17 660:18 661:15 661:19,22 662:2 662:3,3,5,6,9,12 662:13,19,22,22 663:5 664:4,6 701:7,10,13,20 701:22,23,24 702:3 708:2,20 708:25 709:24 710:3 712:6,25 713:4,11 715:16 715:22,24 716:4 717:2,5,9,10 719:14,16,18 720:7,18 721:2 722:3,5,6 723:6 723:19 725:10 725:21 729:25 730:12,24,25 731:15,16,22 732:23 733:10 733:11,19,20,20 733:25 740:19 741:5,8 letters 592:16 607:10 620:10 620:20 621:2,3 621:6 629:23 647:2 662:14 712:15,17 719:12 728:2 731:13,20 732:15 Let's 630:15 liar 697:23 libellous 720:9 libelous 739:7 lie 695:9 lied 603:12,16 695:5,8 lies
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
653:22 654:18 657:24,25 659:24 665:22 672:11 673:12 678:14 696:9 728:13,18,20,21 728:24 issue 601:15 611:13 639:5 641:17 647:23 656:20 658:7 664:24,25 668:4 686:25 694:16 696:22 issues 601:15 641:16 648:8 654:9,17 665:14 669:15 702:23 is,you 736:9 item 637:10 ITV 655:22 672:25 673:6,10 673:11 it,if 735:8 J JAMES 584:20 January 585:24 586:11 595:2 621:17 622:8 623:2 626:11,14 626:20,22,25 627:7 629:5 644:12 646:16 677:3,11 686:15 686:16 725:2,8 725:14,17 726:6 728:9,12 730:3 740:19,20 Japanese 677:10 job 646:9 697:19 697:22 join 644:6 joined 649:19 654:11 665:13 669:3 675:10,12 686:8 JONATHAN 584:20 journalism 641:20 642:9 643:12 681:15 journalist 641:19 642:10 653:6,7 660:15 667:5,9 668:7 680:2 681:14 682:7,10 683:22 journalists 642:19 642:20,22 655:8 664:18,23
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653:9,24 654:1 654:25 655:1 656:1,19 657:1 657:15,20 658:1 658:6 659:1 660:1,2,21 661:1,8,25 662:1,20 663:1 664:1 665:1,2 665:18 666:1,9 666:13,18 667:1 667:13,18 668:1 669:1,19,23 670:1 671:1,8 671:16 672:1,10 673:1 674:1,3 675:1,2,16 676:1 677:1,14 678:1,11,21 679:1,15 680:1 680:8,13 681:1 681:6 682:1,19 683:1 684:1 685:1,5 686:1 686:18 687:1,16 688:1 Kabendera's 678:6 Kate 738:13,15 keep 597:10 615:6 692:10,15,20 keeping 603:7,15 Kent 742:14 Kenya 725:8 726:13 kept 619:8 659:12 678:20 682:7 Kikwete 736:4 kilometres 652:16 652:20 Kimara 586:2 Kimaro 595:19,22 596:14,18 kind 662:10 689:18 693:20 694:5 699:25 kindly 656:19 Kionda 650:20 Kiondo 642:8 654:8 672:4 knew 587:22 597:5 607:14 610:16 668:19 669:17 675:15 675:15 712:25 734:4 know 585:13 596:6 598:19 599:16 603:9 607:15,19
609:14 610:15 612:5,15 614:13 614:13 616:10 620:20 621:15 621:17 625:17 627:2,14 628:21 630:14 633:21 633:22 641:19 641:22,23 642:10,17,21,24 646:3 650:2,4,4 650:6 656:6,11 662:4,16 664:6 665:14 667:2,3 667:12,24,25 668:2 669:10,15 670:4 671:24 672:2,2,4,6,8,24 672:25 673:8 674:4,22 675:9 675:11,22 679:11,14,19,21 680:25 681:2,21 682:15 692:7 693:8,19 694:20 697:2,3 700:11 700:16,25 705:7 706:12 710:24 716:12,17 722:8 722:10 725:16 725:24 727:3,8 728:16,17,18 729:5,10,13,13 732:7 736:9 737:6 738:12 739:14,19 740:21 742:18 knowing 635:10 693:24 736:15 knowledge 650:17 654:4 669:21 673:5 675:11,13 675:14,15 678:13 681:4,5 724:24 known 591:20 knows 682:25 705:8 740:25 L L 645:25 labour 663:4 lady 648:21 681:6 Land 690:21 landed 715:10 Lane 584:16 large 709:2 lasted 608:2 651:9 late 599:23 600:12 656:7 658:6,10 680:10 731:3
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 752] 730:2 733:11 mandated 737:12 manner 587:12 628:7 Mansey 738:13,15 739:10 Mapalala 650:24 651:3 March 599:20 600:7 622:25 623:2 647:10,17 661:9 674:24 676:22 730:15 marched 714:20 marked 658:16 660:23 market 656:17 marks 624:4,11 Marten 584:15 match 709:2 material 686:22 723:24 matter 592:5,14 596:18 605:2 610:12 614:20 615:15 616:2 617:14 623:9 624:15 629:15 642:11 705:9 710:24 716:25 722:5 727:16 737:5 742:14 mattered 629:14 712:2 matters 585:22 586:15 604:10 667:15 711:18 Mauggo 642:14 642:18 644:17 644:17,18,24 650:2,14 651:3 651:8 653:25 654:4,12 656:4 666:5 667:7 671:10,20,22,23 672:9 682:23,25 683:15 684:2 Mauggo's 660:22 662:21 meal 590:6 mean 625:9 665:10,11 668:23 672:15 672:21,22,22 673:24 696:17 700:13 707:25 709:12 713:20 714:24 717:22 724:14 734:24 736:19 737:2 means 638:14 692:17 707:8 732:14 741:20 742:23 meant 656:16 664:19 667:3,9 674:15 676:5 measurements 652:19 media 589:5,10 598:2 599:23 600:12 602:6,8 602:10,22,23 612:25 615:21 622:7 630:22 639:9 645:11 663:10 680:20 681:5 693:15 694:17 696:9 724:10 728:13 728:20,21 730:6 739:5 mediation 596:23 medical 586:22 meet 588:15 604:5 632:23 meeting 588:4,7 588:13 591:21 595:8 597:9,11 597:15,17,20,22 598:6,7,23,25 599:4 600:19,20 600:22,24 601:10,12,14,18 602:11 603:17 603:23 606:8 607:2,3,11,17 607:23,25 609:18,21 610:3 610:23 611:20 611:22,23 612:4 613:19 615:7,13 615:19 616:3,5 617:6,21 619:14 620:7,9 621:9 622:2 623:24 624:20 625:2,7 625:8 630:5 635:14,18,22,22 637:7 638:17,20 638:24 653:11 653:11,12 654:5 656:3 663:6,7 667:16,19,20,23 668:3,6,8,8,22 668:24 669:2,5 669:13,19,22 670:5,8,9,12 687:8,13 698:23 699:4,8 702:4,6
682:13 698:10 708:6 life 588:25 lift 615:11,14 lifted 681:20 light 651:13 709:5 715:17 likelihood 727:5 Limited 624:15 642:6 643:3 645:11 646:18 652:16 lines 593:12 639:4 line-up 650:12 listed 626:16 listen 653:2 734:19 listened 611:24 618:21 689:25 listening 718:13 literally 690:20 litigation 607:21 619:12 622:5 687:2 little 591:20 595:15 611:23 630:16 640:18 645:2 655:15 660:21 673:21 674:6 680:9 681:12 686:14 692:13 702:5 709:22 716:24 718:15 719:12 728:2 734:10 738:25 live 588:25 691:2 706:3 737:20 lives 628:5 696:15 living 697:8 load 707:22 loan 684:9,11,25 London 584:3,16 long 586:23 607:12,25 608:2 608:10 610:24 642:12,16 684:11 709:3 723:23 731:25 732:15,23 733:11 742:8 longer 676:15 697:7 look 590:2 591:17 592:19 593:5 599:20 603:17 603:24 606:12 606:17 609:24 611:17 620:23 621:15,19
624:13 625:13 625:19,22 626:11,11 630:15,21,21 631:17 632:13 637:9 639:4 644:20 649:7 653:19 655:13 655:13 656:20 657:17 658:15 659:8 663:16,21 666:13 688:5 689:8 695:22 700:17 701:25 722:12 723:13 723:16,20,25 724:10,16 725:18,20 729:21 731:5 734:4 735:8 742:22 looked 703:7 looking 599:3 628:12 640:15 640:16,25 645:9 647:13 662:2 672:16 701:23 733:10 739:16 looks 645:5,7 663:3 693:19 729:3 Lord 585:2,8,19 585:21 586:10 586:14,18,19 587:2,6,13,25 588:4,8,11,12 588:14 589:14 590:4,7 591:12 591:22 592:2,10 592:15 593:10 594:6,14 596:14 597:21 598:15 598:21,25 599:5 599:19 600:4,24 601:6 602:19 603:17,20,25 604:16 605:2,15 605:22 606:25 608:2,19 609:3 609:13,20 611:9 612:2,10 614:13 616:16 617:7 618:17 619:25 621:18 622:11 622:13 624:12 625:4,25 626:14 627:21 628:3,16 629:16,22 630:3 630:18,20 631:2 632:3 635:3,6
637:16 638:7 639:13,15,19 640:11,13,24 641:3,5,13,16 641:21 642:4,5 642:13,18,21,25 643:4,8,13 644:6,8,11 645:12,14,17,20 645:24 646:6,12 646:19,21,23 647:7,12,16,22 647:23,25 648:7 648:11,12,15,19 648:22,24 649:2 649:6,22 650:3 650:6,9,13 651:2,12,19,22 651:25 652:6,11 652:14,18,24 653:3,15,18,25 654:4,7,10,12 654:22 655:4,7 655:12,18,20,23 656:7,9,14,24 657:3,6,9,12,13 658:7,18,20 659:4,7,14 660:4,12,14,25 661:5,15,17 662:2,7,11,15 663:19 664:2,4 664:13,17,19,22 665:7,10,25 666:3,6,16,25 667:11,17 668:5 668:7,12,24 669:3,10,12,21 670:3,6,11,19 670:22 671:4,15 671:18,23 672:8 672:16,19,20,24 673:11,15 675:4 675:9,17,25 676:3,5,10,13 676:17,20,24 677:6,15 678:12 678:22,24 679:3 679:6,11,20 680:11,20 681:8 681:11,14 682:10,22 683:3 683:6,9,12,17 684:10,19 686:8 686:13,14 687:4 687:9,18,22 688:5 693:16 696:7 703:12,21 704:7,22 705:5 706:25 710:5
720:4 738:23 740:8 742:13 Lordship 585:9 592:4 594:15 597:18 620:6 646:2 650:7 664:7 673:23 687:23 697:2 705:8,11 707:14 709:2 734:11 741:9 742:10 Lordship's 585:3 586:15 685:6 loss 588:20 608:7 lost 710:20,21 711:6 lot 591:3 604:15 619:23 629:15 666:2 736:17 LOUISE 689:2 lounge/reception 589:23 ludicrous 697:24 lurking 712:21 lying 722:17 M machete 693:20 694:4 main 653:12 683:15 692:20 maintain 628:12 major 616:11,13 616:13 660:5 Makengo 644:24 making 604:9,13 697:6 732:25 man 592:8 597:5 694:4 712:17 management 648:8 661:20 684:3,3,16 manager 594:2 managing 622:23 642:6,7,15 643:3 645:11,18 647:10 648:25 649:17,18 650:14,15,17,19 650:20,21,22,24 651:4,5,5,6 653:22,24 654:6 654:6,8,12,13 654:14,15 656:9 656:10 657:24 657:25 660:14 661:3,4,14 665:22 667:7 668:13 670:17 670:18,24 671:3 671:9,10 724:19
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 753] 643:3 647:10 650:20 661:3,13 663:3,7 672:4,5 Mshana's 654:8 mutter 725:4 mutually 695:11 723:17 Mzungu 694:3 N N 584:23 name 587:14,15 587:23 589:20 596:6,7,8 601:2 601:3 602:21,22 604:18,21 605:3 605:15,24 613:2 647:3 673:14,14 674:11,22 679:23,25 680:8 680:12 681:9 684:8 names 658:11 674:14 675:16 680:10 697:18 national 655:25 Navuri 679:18 680:3,5,6 681:7 near 608:22 609:6 627:19 637:7 640:9 675:2 710:9 711:8 nearly 710:18 necessarily 714:14 necessary 623:12 need 622:13 641:20,24 681:24 698:16 700:4 704:22 707:17 725:20 742:5 needed 628:18 641:11 642:10 644:10 648:3 653:6 661:19 668:10 675:8 683:16,24 686:11 690:10 690:16,16 negative 591:13 654:19 negotiate 716:16 negotiations 644:6 negotiator 716:16 neither 591:4 626:6 never 594:20 626:22 647:22 648:4,9 649:21 650:7 651:4 652:9 654:17 660:12,17 661:15,16,17 662:5,7,12,12 662:13 663:12 663:18 676:18 678:23,24,25 681:15 682:11 684:5 696:18 701:16 703:11 712:4 713:9 727:12 new 631:9 644:7 648:2,3 660:16 660:16 news 597:21 647:19,24 648:4 648:5,7,10,11 648:17 649:3,5 649:9,20,21 650:8 651:9 652:22 653:3,8 655:3,20,22 656:9 659:25 660:2,6,10 661:11,23 662:5 663:20 664:5,8 664:12,14 665:25 666:10 666:11,15,19,19 666:23 667:3,5 667:6 668:18 675:11,17,17 676:6,11,23 677:4 679:7,18 683:6,8,17 686:4,7,9 newspaper 587:15 620:23 622:24 623:7,16 625:19 645:16,19 647:19 648:18 648:23 649:11 650:14 653:13 656:20 657:18 659:22 660:15 661:11 666:22 667:12,22 669:18 671:25 672:8 678:6 694:18 724:9 730:2 738:9 newspapers 587:4 587:7,23 598:12 598:19 601:11 602:6 604:18 605:16,18,24 611:19 617:24 620:25 626:18
702:10,12,18 703:3 706:10 708:21 710:11 710:11,14,14 711:2,9,12,16 713:5 715:11 730:18 meetings 649:12 649:12 650:10 653:16 667:17 668:11,12,14 669:24 670:4,5 670:6 675:24,24 684:19 687:7 members 627:7 735:24 memory 703:9 710:10 Mengi 584:9 587:14,23 589:19,23 591:4 591:6,15,20 595:9 596:4,11 596:22 597:2,5 599:22,24 600:11,13,21,23 601:3 602:7 603:4,6,11,14 604:13,20,21,22 605:3,5,14,15 605:19,20,23 606:3,8,9 607:3 607:19 608:6,13 609:11,19 610:3 610:16,22,23 611:2,3,6,14,17 611:19 612:7,25 613:13,18 614:18,25 616:20 618:3,4 618:13 619:15 619:16,17 620:7 620:11,18,24 621:13 622:2,5 623:5 624:3 625:11 626:7 627:5,6 629:20 631:20 633:3,16 633:23 635:17 635:21 637:8 638:11,17,20 639:3 642:21 652:12 653:5 656:4 658:10,24 664:16 665:4,5 665:15 669:6 672:3,6 673:3,7 676:9 677:2 678:25 679:9,20 682:13 687:22
692:21 693:4 694:10 695:8,11 696:19,20,23,24 697:4,23 698:10 698:13,23 699:4 699:9,20 700:2 700:18 701:17 701:21 702:8 712:5 713:10,17 713:23 714:2,6 714:11,22,23 715:3,21 716:7 716:21 717:21 717:22,23 718:2 718:18,21 720:8 721:20 722:9 723:2 730:5,15 731:4,17,18,20 731:21 735:23 737:11 Mengi's 587:4,5 598:12 612:23 613:3 624:21 626:18 627:25 631:13 633:13 635:3,4 641:21 652:4 675:22 676:3,4 681:3 681:25 684:8 692:6 693:15 695:4 715:24 716:25 718:12 mental 691:9 mention 591:8 593:11 594:6 621:17 629:25 630:3,6 634:4 680:22 700:24 702:17 731:8,12 732:3 mentioned 591:14 601:10 614:8 619:24 622:10 630:12 674:14 676:8 680:21 684:3 696:8 731:20,21 mentioning 675:21 mentions 637:10 730:18 mentor 642:8,15 merely 681:19 716:14 mess 694:5 messenger 716:14 met 591:22 596:5 596:15 607:16 609:17 680:22 metaphorically
615:9 Mgamba 656:10 middle 600:9 728:3 Middleton 585:14 585:15,17 591:1 591:3,18 592:1 593:1,4 594:1 595:1,7 596:1 597:1 598:1 599:1,2,10,12 600:1,3,16,20 601:1,23 602:1 603:1,2,5,9,24 604:1 605:1,17 606:1,15 607:1 607:4 608:1 609:1,19,24 610:1,15,23,24 611:1,3,5,11,12 611:15 612:1 613:1 614:1 615:1,8 616:1 617:1 618:1 619:1 620:1,14 621:1 622:1 623:1,18 624:1 624:17,20 625:1 626:1 627:1,9 627:23 628:1,2 629:1,10 630:1 630:13 631:1,5 631:10,16,22 632:1 633:1 634:1,6 635:1 636:1 637:1,3 638:1 639:16 735:22 MIDDLETON-... 586:1 587:1 588:1 589:1 590:1 million 626:19 millionaire 739:5 mind 594:20 605:14,21 626:22 629:2 636:3 638:7 670:2 677:24 703:22 704:9 727:12 730:14 minded 604:25 mine 595:3 645:5 657:4 714:24 720:12 mining 654:19 656:17 657:10 666:8 743:6 minute 673:25 701:16 misleading
706:19 missing 616:15 712:2 740:21 mistaken 606:18 611:20 727:18 mistrust 713:16 Mital 596:15 moment 599:2 601:20 609:23 610:2 618:2 620:23 622:14 627:22 637:19 657:14 660:21 662:20 686:19 686:24 698:16 700:14 703:22 703:24 707:3,18 722:7 740:8 Monday 584:4 money 678:17 679:14,20 681:3 681:4 684:6,9 690:7 736:16 monstrous 626:7 month 661:22 months 586:21 610:6 625:22 629:12 643:15 643:16 644:8 651:10 652:21 652:25 659:24 663:20 679:12 691:5 732:2 morning 628:22 629:17 633:9 638:19 643:8 653:4,9 660:3,9 660:12 667:16 667:18,19,24 669:10,24 670:2 670:8 698:17,21 701:8 712:7 715:12 734:12 740:9 743:9 Moshi 591:25 594:2 626:25 714:20 728:9 739:3 motions 721:5 move 592:6 672:11 678:8 709:15,18 moving 711:5 Mozaum 693:25 Mpochi 673:18,20 674:15,17 675:25 676:4,8 676:14,22 677:7 677:24 687:2 Mshana 642:8
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 754] 610:22 612:19 613:25 614:14 614:15 617:12 621:25 623:6,15 623:19,24 631:12 632:22 633:6 637:9,13 637:15,18,23 638:16 649:7 651:15 653:19 654:16 657:21 659:8,10,21 660:8 665:19 666:9 668:16 670:14,19 672:11,16,17 674:4 678:10 716:6 717:7,11 717:12 718:4 720:7 730:15,18 741:3,10 paragraphs 710:15 711:13 711:16 paraphrasing 734:18 pardon 685:6 697:21 701:23 702:2 717:24 719:15 part 605:6 608:4,6 616:20 626:17 641:14 652:3 656:11 666:22 668:16 695:13 698:14 713:4 participate 663:9 particular 628:3 637:25 662:17 665:16 669:6,15 689:23 696:8 717:11 729:14 particularly 692:16 parties 716:19 partly 646:20,20 parts 615:20 616:11,13,13 party 606:21 pass 653:4 673:21 673:23,25 passed 629:20 704:18 738:19 passport 724:25 725:7 726:9 patient 734:7 pause 593:9 606:22 631:2,3 640:9,18,20 645:5,7 647:13 648:12,19 652:5 658:19 674:13 680:17 685:7 710:5 714:17 717:17 726:5 732:23 733:8 734:8 738:23 740:7 pay 591:16 607:20 608:23 609:2 616:13 619:11 621:12 622:4 626:19 679:10 683:10 684:6,25 685:2 701:2 711:24 719:4 payment 635:7 peaceful 588:25 pedestal 606:4 pen 620:14 712:13 732:11 pending 648:7 penultimate 677:7 people 609:8 621:4 629:18 642:11 653:2 682:8 687:8,13 687:14 690:5 713:22,25 714:2 715:5 732:11,25 736:10,17 740:2 perfectly 629:2 681:22 695:3 711:3 712:22 period 625:21 628:8 646:13 649:10 665:12 665:17 674:7 677:23 678:6 686:3,6,18,20 731:24 permanent 659:22 permission 586:15 643:14 permitted 705:10 person 585:3 607:6 628:18 641:23 666:4 676:2 678:18 680:16 682:15 684:2 724:9 740:14 personalise 722:23 personalities 696:22 personally 622:4 624:2 681:24 686:10 720:8 723:5 persuade
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
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731:23 okay 600:8,10 609:25 702:2 703:21 715:5 718:6,8 738:19 old 725:3 728:13 older 638:8 omits 711:18 omitted 614:13 once 605:24 609:17 618:9 651:25 676:7 733:23 one-time 664:25 onwards 622:8 open 597:10 610:19 612:11 612:14 640:2 659:12 700:14 701:6 709:20 735:9 opening 600:24 704:18 742:9 openly 665:15 679:19 operation 618:25 operations 628:13 728:18 opinion 666:20,23 opportunity 588:24 609:9 632:11 640:25 order 585:8 671:2 671:13,20 704:9 ordered 692:11 696:16 ordinary 605:19 organisations 693:15 organisers 643:13 684:20 original 654:23 Orloma 727:11 ought 630:7 743:2 outcome 616:3,4 outside 683:23 outstanding 684:12 overnight 742:19 owe 684:8 owed 684:25 owned 657:5 owner 724:9,10 o'clock 653:10,11 653:13 657:16 667:19 668:3,6 668:8,11,12,24 669:5,13,19,20 669:22,25 670:5 670:5,8,9,10,13
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TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 755] 601:14 principle 618:3,5 631:21 702:3 716:8 printed 598:19 674:3 printing 589:10 598:3 724:8 priority 664:21 private 585:25 privilege 703:15 703:23 704:13 705:5,8,8,17 706:22 708:15 privileged 703:13 704:11 707:19 707:19 probability 729:12 probably 606:6 608:3 640:3 659:17 664:23 670:3 673:2 680:14 692:20 693:16 700:4 702:13 706:13 707:17,21 709:9 718:15 720:12 721:18 733:22 739:9 problem 588:21 681:10 714:17 714:18 proceed 705:20 709:6 proceeded 609:10 proceedings 608:24 701:4 processes 671:2 produced 682:2 702:25 703:2 704:21 706:9,10 productive 588:25 profession 642:20 programme 663:10 projected 663:18 prominent 694:23 promise 602:17 603:6,7 607:20 619:11 621:11 621:12 623:15 627:25 629:21 711:23,24 720:23 722:14 723:25 730:4 731:5,25 733:15 promised 622:2 626:8 699:20 700:18,19,22 701:2 promises 603:15 604:3,9,10,14 604:15 616:22 619:6 621:16 622:6,10 715:21 718:13,20,25 719:6,9 721:20 730:19 736:4 promote 701:17 promotion 592:22 660:15 proper 652:19 properly 591:18 724:18 property 614:21 616:17 proportionality 678:3 proposal 618:9 632:18 717:2,4 717:5,19 proposals 717:8 proposed 644:9 protect 737:12 prove 591:13 694:24 proved 618:18 provide 641:9 provided 658:3 proximity 724:5 public 589:20 601:3 605:3 680:25 692:17 736:16 publication 656:13 659:3 702:16 publications 587:3 602:8,10 622:7 678:17,17 694:21 696:10 696:11 700:19 719:5 publicised 653:21 657:23 658:5 665:21 publicising 612:25 publicity 606:2 666:2 publish 627:25 654:18 656:2 published 585:24 587:6 589:5 650:13 655:25 671:25 684:17 692:25 693:2 726:3,15,16 publishers 658:2 publishing 639:9
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LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 756] 635:24 reason 597:7 603:2,4,5,14 605:20 616:24 617:5,6,7 628:3 628:14 630:13 632:12 642:4 681:18 682:12 683:10 697:3,17 698:4 710:22 713:16,20 720:17 731:3 reasonable 677:21 reasons 625:2 632:5 642:5,25 681:4 683:12,12 683:14 684:4,7 689:24 692:20 737:21 recall 588:13,18 590:8 598:21 611:17 615:15 622:11,12 628:3 634:5 648:20 708:19 receive 622:24 received 596:3 615:8 616:25 633:19 635:25 647:22 648:6 649:18 660:17 661:15,16 670:16,24 receives 736:2,21 receiving 617:10 618:20 recollection 588:6 588:10 614:16 638:4 669:21 699:3,8 record 616:22 637:6,6 710:9 710:10 734:20 recorded 586:3 593:13,18,22 690:4,11 recorder 698:20 records 616:19 618:4 recovery 586:25 recruited 659:22 red 704:4 refer 623:6 704:16 707:18 reference 594:15 622:13 684:11 704:22 720:23 733:14 referred 596:8 referring 592:23 611:19 673:15 704:7 738:10 refers 594:24 refresh 703:9 refused 587:22 633:5 684:11 697:14 regard 618:2 631:19 708:11 regarded 601:11 regarding 611:10 647:23 672:8 673:4 675:19 Reginald 584:9 596:4,5,22 597:5 599:22,24 600:11,13 603:6 603:11,14 604:13,20,22 605:9,14,20 606:3,8,9 607:3 609:11 610:3 611:6,17 613:18 614:25 616:20 617:9 620:11 635:4,15 642:21 656:4 664:16 665:5,15 669:6 672:3,6 673:3,7 675:22 676:9 679:9,20 681:3 682:13 692:21 697:4,23 698:10 698:23 713:17 713:22 714:2,22 715:3 716:21,25 730:15 register 614:5,21 registered 589:12 589:21 616:14 700:22 registering 616:17 registration 598:5 613:5 719:2 regularly 686:9 reinstated 635:9 reiterate 617:12 reiterated 636:2 rejected 613:12 rejects 607:19 relates 665:19 relating 649:14 relation 608:5 623:16 730:6 relayed 603:22 620:6 635:4 release 658:23,24 659:2 739:20 released 658:11 relevance 714:16 relevant
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
656:5 684:22 734:9 purchase 635:20 purely 632:6 purport 677:16 purpose 600:20 600:21 601:9,12 601:18 667:15 678:21 689:22 689:23 692:8 698:15 727:12 734:16 737:7,8 741:19 purposes 721:18 pursuing 636:4 642:24 pushing 661:18 put 588:24 589:10 589:16 591:4 596:11 602:17 602:18,21 603:3 603:9 606:2 612:24 615:18 620:14 624:4,11 624:16 625:5,7 628:4 633:16,20 633:22,25 638:9 639:3 648:9 659:16 668:10 680:8 683:25 685:7 686:3 693:14 699:11 699:20 707:5 709:8,12 720:15 720:22 721:7,24 721:24 722:4,6 722:9,22 724:11 730:24,25 731:4 732:11 733:7,18 733:21,22,24 735:20 737:21 putrefying 694:11 puts 712:12 putting 606:4 697:16 713:11 716:17 721:8 723:4 727:15 Q QC 584:19,20 qualified 708:14 quality 584:15,16 593:12 quarantine 691:6 quarantined 691:7 QUEEN'S 584:1 queried 668:18 question 592:3 593:15 596:11 598:11 603:8
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722:25 723:1,4 723:8,11 724:1 724:15 725:1,23 726:1,18 727:1 727:25 728:1,4 728:15 729:1,9 729:13,18,23 730:1 731:1,6 731:13 732:1 733:1,17 734:1 734:3,6 735:1 736:1,12 737:1 737:15 738:1,23 738:25 739:1,19 740:1,11,15,24 741:1,3,5,9,11 741:18,24,25 742:1,7 743:1,2 743:8 rang 712:10 range 687:13 ransacked 694:10 rapidly 603:20 rate 646:7 reach 596:12,23 627:20 reached 619:13 read 593:6,7,8,10 595:5 599:16,17 599:21 600:5 601:4 606:19,22 618:2 623:6,13 627:9,12 661:24 670:15 695:16 695:19 701:10 701:12 702:19 717:7,12,16 719:22 725:22 735:21 737:14 737:15,16 738:22,24 739:22 741:7,13 reader 655:16 735:18,20 737:13 reading 591:18 613:23 reads 607:4 623:7 623:25 631:14 real 631:14,25 realise 680:18 702:17 721:6 realised 679:7 really 658:9 660:20 665:18 689:25 702:23 705:7 710:5 722:16 723:24 725:4 733:17 736:9,18 739:2 reams
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 757] sat 611:24 656:11 668:9 savage 690:2 save 600:21 734:7 saw 611:2 653:3 660:3,9,12 678:18 693:25 710:3,7 712:6,9 saying 610:8 611:17 630:21 638:23 639:5,8 653:2 697:4 698:12 705:22 707:8 708:6 715:9,21 723:17 723:18,21,21,24 724:3 729:23,24 740:25 says 594:12 606:14,15 610:22,23 613:9 614:6,7,18 617:12 618:8 619:15 623:15 623:24 632:17 637:21 647:18 653:20 661:9,13 702:13 703:2 706:5,10 715:4 724:6,9 729:20 736:9 737:9 score 696:12 scratchy 728:2 search 686:20 seat 609:8 seats 609:2 second 593:11,12 593:16 596:2 606:19 610:19 613:25 617:12 623:19 637:9,13 637:18 644:19 644:23 655:14 658:16,19 659:8 660:23 668:16 670:23 679:4 680:19 702:25 706:5,8 741:6 secondly 598:3 642:13 690:4 section 599:11 650:13 658:16 658:19 667:6 686:10 687:11 sections 666:17 see 596:2 599:6,20 601:14,20 604:9 606:2,6 610:13 614:20,22,23 616:14,17 625:12,12,20 635:23 638:2,13 640:14 644:22 646:5,8 647:2 652:7,23 654:21 656:23 658:24 659:2,4,11 661:14 662:23 673:21 674:18 674:22 681:24 684:20 690:23 695:11 696:9,11 697:18 698:8 701:6,9 702:11 702:19 710:8 712:19,21 714:12,17 715:20,24 717:7 723:16 725:18 726:24 727:25 729:7 730:12 735:10 736:9 739:16 seen 620:12 652:9 652:12,14 661:17 662:13 672:19 678:23 678:24 679:19 703:4,11 Selemani 674:15 674:17 675:25 676:8,14,22 677:7 687:2 sell 713:14 send 653:6 662:22 675:20 senior 687:11 735:24 sense 592:3 598:11 617:22 638:9 667:4 678:7 707:17 sensible 711:3 717:3,19 738:6 sent 661:3 662:13 726:4 738:18 740:20 741:5 sentence 600:5,11 624:4,5 653:20 657:21 659:10 665:19 668:17 670:16,23 720:8 721:8 separate 652:3 666:10,11,15 September 641:8 641:10 644:7 645:23 646:5 sequence 645:2 series 627:24
692:23,24 relieve 683:22,23 reluctance 641:14 reluctant 597:14 708:8 remain 642:20 remaining 684:25 694:22 remains 608:20 664:11 remarks 600:24 remember 590:4 608:2 611:11,15 611:18 613:23 617:10 621:10 621:11 622:17 622:20 623:24 629:10 630:21 637:11,11 638:23,25 639:6 642:17 648:6,11 648:19,21,24 650:9 651:22 652:2 655:18 656:8,13 658:13 658:14,15 660:6 664:9,9 670:12 672:9 679:17,17 682:25 683:15 684:19 686:8 700:25 703:3,25 706:7,10 707:10 708:7,21 709:10 710:7 712:6 720:6 723:18 729:24 733:13 remind 659:14 reminded 648:12 721:14 Reminding 721:10 remote 691:4 Removing 604:18 reopen 710:23 reopened 708:8 repeat 593:15 603:8 605:15 658:18,20 672:19 repeated 716:11 repeatedly 668:18 repeating 723:7 repercussion 641:24 replicated 723:19 report 602:10 644:8 653:7,23 659:2 696:9 718:18 reported 599:2
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LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 758] 642:2 644:19,23 646:15 648:13 649:7 651:14 653:19 657:21 659:8,11,14,18 660:23 665:20 666:14 668:16 670:21 672:9,17 675:5 680:9,11 680:15 681:19 689:6 695:16 702:19,25 703:2 703:8,11,12,16 704:7,10 706:6 706:8,9,16 707:7,8,20 708:25 709:5,8 709:11,13 713:18,21 727:8 727:10,17 734:14 740:18 740:19,23 742:22 statements 644:17 644:19 649:15 707:25 708:16 states 716:6 stay 601:20 693:23 stayed 691:5 Stenograph/Sho... 584:15 Stephen 655:21 Stevenson 740:24 Steward 618:10 Stewart 585:15 601:23 613:25 701:18 735:22 Stewart's 614:21 615:5 stick 735:6 stillborn 717:18 stink 694:11 stock 656:17 stop 589:10,16 598:2 602:17,18 602:21 606:2 611:19 612:8,25 616:14 625:24 626:8 627:22 631:2 639:8 678:25 696:16 699:20 700:18 719:4 722:14 723:14 724:2,11 731:5 733:15 737:13 stories 649:13 650:12 654:19 655:8 666:19 667:6 668:10 672:3,6,7 677:15 679:21 681:12 682:16 684:16,22 story 655:18,24 655:24,25 656:2 656:6,6,7,14 667:2 669:7,9 677:13 681:13 681:16 693:10 735:21 736:12 737:9 straight 640:3 690:18 straightaway 731:12 Strand 584:3 strange-looking 677:7 strap 656:21 streets 714:20 stressed 587:11 strictly 600:15 strongly 665:5 Stuart 716:8,8 stuff 690:20 subject 627:4 635:24 636:4 submission 706:21 707:2,16 submissions 705:20 708:3 submit 696:3 submitted 641:12 694:20,24 subsequently 586:12 679:7 substantial 654:20 success 615:4 successful 611:2 suddenly 630:14 sue 739:6 suffered 586:20 691:9 694:14 suffering 589:19 sufficient 725:24 suggest 617:5 624:16,19 625:5 625:6 654:2,6 659:15 671:16 672:10 681:19 705:20 710:14 713:13 716:19 721:2 737:17 738:6 suggested 615:20 631:25 669:8 suggesting 662:9
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741:14 spoil 681:25 spoke 672:14 682:5 spoken 596:4 615:25 642:22 713:8,12,22,25 715:5 Sports 687:10 spouting 690:8 spread 656:25 spring 665:3 squeak 629:13 staff 586:2 587:8 587:17 592:5 614:4 627:15 629:18 675:7 683:5,7 stage 608:24 619:14 718:15 721:25 stamps 724:25 725:7 726:9 stand 604:3,3 608:24 708:25 start 613:25 630:8 637:13 644:3,5 644:9 646:15 667:2 686:15 734:11 742:4,12 742:23 started 622:5 644:6,11 647:25 654:11 662:4 664:5,8 665:8 734:25 735:2 739:20 starting 637:9 starts 644:20 687:22 727:18 state 737:11 stated 601:22 602:7,23 605:22 616:16 617:23 637:22 638:4 statement 585:20 591:4,11,14,15 592:20 594:4 596:15 597:10 598:16 601:4 602:4 606:17 610:20 612:11 612:16,18 613:10 616:25 617:16 619:2 628:17,19 631:11 632:22 633:7,16,20 634:5 640:10,21 641:2,4,9,12,15
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 759] 702:23,24 703:13,18,20 704:10,14,15,19 704:24 705:5,12 705:15 706:25 707:16 708:5,12 709:22 710:3,12 712:7,8 713:3 713:18 715:20 716:4 719:14,21 720:15 721:7,18 723:3,19 724:6 724:20 725:5 726:3 727:9,11 727:18,23 732:10,14,23,25 733:6 734:2,23 735:2,4 736:17 736:17,18 739:19 740:24 742:9 743:2,4 thinking 706:16 739:22 third 598:5 621:24 623:24 637:15,23 655:15 717:7,12 720:7 thirdly 690:6 thought 614:12 616:11 631:14 631:25 633:25 683:20 688:5 707:21 710:7 712:4 715:10 716:5 718:10 721:19 723:21 thoughts 713:9 720:25 threat 678:19 679:2 682:8 694:14,15 712:21 threatened 694:7 threats 611:5 three 585:12 618:20 619:14 624:4 642:5 643:15,16 644:8 651:10 652:21 652:25 653:8 663:20 667:18 668:13 674:19 674:25 675:2 677:24 690:21 710:15 733:12 734:16 743:5 TIC 594:2,8,10 till 630:6 time 587:9 588:18 589:16 592:13 597:7 601:21 603:10 604:15 605:4 607:11 613:23 616:21 618:18 619:13 619:25 620:12 621:16 622:12 623:5,18 626:5 627:14 628:15 629:16,19,22 642:16 644:10 648:4 653:20 655:2,16,19,21 657:19,22 658:5 658:9 659:17 661:17 664:15 664:24 665:9,13 665:17,20,24 667:9 668:10 669:11,25 670:4 671:6 677:4 678:7 680:12 684:21 687:9,9 687:19 688:3 691:7,7 692:11 692:15 694:16 696:2 697:9,19 699:19,23 703:7 714:3,19 721:5 723:23 726:24 727:2 733:22 734:8,10 times 642:22 643:16 652:23 652:24,25 654:7 671:6 717:13 725:6 734:14 738:9,13 tiptoe 742:16 title 646:9 735:11 told 585:14 597:19,25 598:6 598:10,24 599:3 600:25 607:3 620:3,6 621:8 624:3,20 629:4 629:17 631:22 633:4,12 638:19 638:20 642:19 645:18 650:7 652:7 653:23 654:11,18 657:25 670:15 671:3 673:5,10 680:2 682:7 683:18 686:13 698:5,22,25 699:8 700:17 711:5 712:7
662:10,11,12 694:12 697:16 706:15,19 709:23 suggestion 604:7 630:7 697:24 702:11 722:20 723:13 728:4 suggests 669:23 summarily 588:12 summarising 625:14 718:14 summary 592:20 614:14,24 638:3 638:17 640:15 641:8 703:6 704:2 710:9,10 711:9 Sunday 654:25 655:3,4,6,11 656:10 738:9,13 742:25 supervisor 660:13 671:23 suppliers 587:21 587:22 supported 614:20 694:2,3,3 supportive 607:7 suppose 608:3 701:18 708:17 supposed 607:21 630:4 687:9 726:2 737:13,23 737:25 sure 596:4 605:17 611:25 623:13 639:20 644:13 667:12 672:5 679:23 680:23 683:17 694:4 699:12 723:22 733:7,22 741:23 742:14 surely 594:8 701:13 surprised 666:7 669:3 677:2 suspect 640:2,15 740:18,20 Swahili 627:10,12 SWORN 585:15 639:23 689:2 system 721:6 T tab 585:17 606:18 612:18 613:17 621:20 631:11 640:6,8 644:15 644:16,17
648:14 659:18 660:23 689:4 701:6 tabs 640:8 take 585:7,17 587:16 592:19 612:19 627:20 628:24 631:4 632:3 655:15 659:15 670:12 672:12 673:13 674:12 675:19 676:2 689:17 692:11,16 703:18,20 705:12 707:12 734:10 742:8 taken 632:12 673:8,22 676:14 686:25 708:4 takes 626:25 661:22 728:10 talk 611:6 625:12 625:20 665:15 671:6 704:25 707:17 742:19 talked 672:9 705:7 talking 606:12 610:16 629:19 701:7 704:3 714:22 738:13 talks 670:7 Tanga 693:25 tangible 587:10 Tanzania 586:16 586:21,21 587:14,20 588:3 588:23 589:13 589:20 592:23 601:21 639:20 641:18,22 644:5 654:19 656:18 680:20 689:13 689:13,18 690:2 690:5,18 692:5 692:18 693:15 693:21,24 694:14,23 701:18 713:14 713:22,25 724:20 725:8 726:12 734:22 735:3,4,22 736:2,10,14,16 736:21 737:18 737:20 738:7 739:5 740:4 Tanzanian 663:10 692:18 734:18
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703:13 test 662:20 674:3 676:7 705:4 text 656:22 thank 595:6 602:16 610:19 611:10 612:18 618:9 634:6 636:10 639:11 639:16 643:17 645:8 654:24 657:13 674:22 685:5,7 687:4 687:15,15 691:10 728:4 738:24 thing 598:5 606:11 626:9 628:4 631:9,10 639:6 659:12 686:14 693:20 699:25 711:3,18 733:16 734:8,13 738:17 things 613:6 629:15 651:8 662:15,16,18 665:4 666:18 683:18 697:4 708:7 712:2,5 720:5 736:7 742:8 think 585:12 587:13 591:12 592:21 594:17 595:18,21 598:15,16 599:13,16 600:3 603:2,5,14,17 605:20 606:16 607:11 610:19 616:4,24 618:19 622:20 623:10 623:20 626:9 627:24 628:7,8 628:14 629:22 635:7,9 637:12 637:25 638:12 640:3,7 641:16 644:14,20 645:4 645:25 647:9 662:15 666:13 667:19 674:5,7 680:12,13,15 682:23 687:7 689:23 690:15 691:5 692:3,19 693:3 694:25 695:4 697:8,20 698:7,16 702:18
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 760] volume 606:18 659:13 700:13 657:7 743:6 wasting 736:16 water 657:4 way 585:13 591:15 595:11 600:22 601:15 603:9 613:13 620:2 635:11 638:3 640:7,7 644:14,15 662:18 664:18 676:7 684:2 687:3 689:14,16 696:4,5,7 700:6 725:23 733:18 740:6 WC2A 584:3,16 web 603:10 728:25 739:25 website 599:12,17 689:20,22 690:13 692:8,22 695:22 696:4 698:9 728:13,19 728:20 734:16 734:24 735:11 735:16 740:9 742:2 websites 696:7 week 644:11 694:7,8 724:20 725:10 weekend 655:10 656:15 weight 707:13,14 707:15 708:13 718:17,20,23,25 719:6 welcome 615:6 well-intentioned 596:22 went 588:16 592:4 597:9,11 635:21 652:6 655:22 665:3 668:8 669:18 671:13 679:13 682:19 684:5,13 691:2 691:6 693:22 699:6,9 712:9 724:25 725:6 733:19 whatsoever 589:3 602:23 629:24 682:17 689:16 701:17 whilst 710:16 white 694:4 Whitman 584:19 wife 586:13
715:12 717:23 718:10 722:10 722:11 727:11 731:13 732:6 739:10 740:12 740:21,22 tomorrow 703:24 734:12 740:9 741:23 742:3,5 742:23,24 743:9 tone 620:2 top 585:25 587:13 593:11,16 624:13 635:8 663:3 668:15,16 670:20 735:13 topic 587:3 610:13 611:8 719:13 total 624:21 675:2 totally 587:19 635:10 636:4 touch 615:6 654:17 679:9 tradition 608:22 transaction 635:25 transcript 584:15 626:21 688:4 TRANSCRIPTS 584:25 transformed 625:23 722:13 723:11,13 translation 594:12 translations 627:9 transpired 617:21 trap 710:23 travel 726:21 travelled 659:23 travels 690:8 742:14 trawling 726:24 treated 587:12 708:3 treatment 586:22 trees 627:16,17 trespassing 703:13 trial 585:9 tried 595:10 683:4 683:6 troubled 707:22 707:24 true 587:14 623:8 641:6,7 649:9 654:3 675:5 680:16 681:10 681:12 689:10
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LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 761] 123A 644:20 123H 645:21 123J 644:21 645:9 123K 645:8 123L 645:25 123Q 646:16 123R 647:9,13 123(R) 660:24 661:7 123(S) 661:2,6,12 123(T) 662:21 123(U) 663:16 13th 588:18 595:8 609:18,21 663:8 674:25 676:15 729:4 14 741:3,10 14th 633:18 651:11 662:22 663:11 717:3 15 606:18 679:12 679:12 16th 629:5 631:13 674:24 676:22 725:2,8 726:10 726:12 168 621:20 17 640:6,8 648:14 659:12,18 17th 629:5 630:11 630:12 725:2,5 725:9 726:11 170 621:24 18th 596:5 186 727:20 186A 727:22 186P 727:18 186Q 727:18 186Z 727:22 19th 623:2,19 626:5,22,24 627:7 630:12 719:19 723:6 725:14,17 726:6 726:16 728:9,12 730:3,25 731:16 196 613:17 637:4 701:7 709:20 197 617:8 631:19 632:14 199 622:21 724:23 729:25 1995 696:5 2 2 585:17 599:9,10 606:18 612:14 631:11 640:4 656:22 659:10 659:13,21 660:23 689:4 727:9,14 728:5 741:11 743:8 2LL 584:3 2nd 586:3 627:8 627:16 645:23 646:5 647:10,17 661:9 740:20 20 677:19 200 595:15 678:2 2005 588:5,18 592:11,22 595:21 597:2 599:23 600:12 603:18 622:15 622:18 623:8,25 631:13 694:19 695:5,8,24 697:15 698:15 713:16 715:3 733:6 2006 585:24 622:15,18,19,25 622:25 623:2 626:6,11,20,22 626:25 627:8,16 629:6,11 694:19 695:24 697:15 723:6 730:3 731:25 2007 586:4,5 694:19 695:25 729:4 2008 645:3,13 646:5,8,14 675:10 686:15 686:16 689:13 2009 599:13 643:12 644:12 646:16,25 647:3 647:5 648:16,23 658:6,10,11,25 659:6,9,10,11 659:22,24 664:10 665:3,8 667:14 676:22 677:3,11 689:20 690:12,25 691:8 731:23 734:10 2010 586:9 599:20 600:7 621:17 622:8 647:11,17 647:20 648:10 648:16,18 649:20 651:10 651:11 655:2 658:8 660:2,11 661:9,12 662:23 663:17 667:15 674:25 676:15 676:18 686:5,5
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LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
12 NOVEMBER 2012
686:17 694:21 731:24 734:10 2011 738:16 2012 584:4 586:3 202 725:25 203 623:2 730:12 205 623:18 719:12 719:14,16,21 21st 645:3,13 646:4 655:2 22nd 596:3 23rd 595:21 658:11,25 733:6 738:16 231 593:6 232 593:17 233 612:19 234 633:7 236 733:2 236-252 733:6 24th 622:25 626:24 724:19 730:2 25th 622:25 623:2 730:15 26th 646:25 28th 677:3,11 289 659:21 29 674:6 741:11 29th 740:19 741:4 741:5,7 2900 584:16 291 668:17 670:20 672:18 292 640:16 292E 640:17 3 3 594:17 626:12 638:16 644:15 644:17 656:22 658:16,19 660:23 687:20 716:6 743:8 3rd 595:2 626:11 626:14,20 30 675:2 677:25 30th 585:24 31st 663:11,17 39 592:19 594:4 4 4 651:15 40 597:12 43 598:17 599:4 45 612:19,20 46 612:19,20,23 47 591:17 613:12 658:17,19,21,22 48 658:23 49 631:12 632:22
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LONDON, WC2A 1HP
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FAX: (020) 7831 6864

Mengi V Hermitage 2102 Trial Transcript

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MENGI v HERMITAGE

PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 586]

IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION

Claim No: HQ10D04585

REGINALD MENGI Claimant -andSARAH HERMITAGE Defendant ----------

am told. I will call Mr. Middleton. DAVID STEWART MIDDLETON, SWORN

[1] (Pages 584 to 587)

TEL: (020) 7067 2900

FAX: (020) 7831 6864

12 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 588]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 590]

14 A. My Lord, the High Commissioner, Mr. Pocock, contacted me and

MIDDLETON CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. RAMPTON

when he gave evidence, is there not? You were in court when

[2] (Pages 588 to 591)

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12 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 592]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 594]

11 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Do we have the enclosures to this letter? The

7 MR. RAMPTON: Mr. Middleton, it is the case, is it not, that the

say that the details of your arrest were inaccurately recorded

17 A. Yes. 18 Q. That is a letter written, I think, by you, is it not, to a 19

of your arrest were inaccurately recorded.

Dr. Kimaro? Yes?

letter -- inaccurately recorded in the articles. Yes?

Dr. Kimaro about the possibility of resolving this dispute?

23 A. Correct. 24 Q. In Dar es Salaam? 25 A. Correct.

[3] (Pages 592 to 595)

TEL: (020) 7067 2900

FAX: (020) 7831 6864

12 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 596]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 598]

not know everything that was printed in his newspapers.

what you told your wife in the phone call?

MIDDLETON - RAMPTON cordial?

21 A. My Lord, I did not give the news of or the results of the

[4] (Pages 596 to 599)

TEL: (020) 7067 2900

FAX: (020) 7831 6864

12 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 600]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 602]

[5] (Pages 600 to 603)

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FAX: (020) 7831 6864

12 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 604]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 606]

10 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, nor to the discredit of Benjamin. That is your 10

17 Q. I am not sure I am following this, Mr. Middleton. Articles

22 A. My Lord, because as he has stated before, his brother

[6] (Pages 604 to 607)

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FAX: (020) 7831 6864

12 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 608]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 610]

2 Q. At the moment, please just answer my question: at that 3 4

15 MR. RAMPTON: As I want to know whether Mr. Middleton is asserting 16 17

of Mr. Pocock's witness statement, have you not?

[7] (Pages 608 to 611)

TEL: (020) 7067 2900

FAX: (020) 7831 6864

12 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 612]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 5 [Page 614]