Hello all, I am a student in my 4th year of civil undergrad.

With a group, we have to work on the structural design of a multistorey building. We have created a mock-up co mpany and have received an architectural drawing for the building. Right now we are doing preliminary report, and for that we need to present different design a lternatives. I have been assigned the task of calculating wind loads, snow loads (already done), dead + live and their distributions (Loading cases I guess?). I have all the data resources available to me for the location of the building. I have been trying to figure this one out for a while and I can't. National Buil ding Code of Canada does not make it clear what I am supposed to do. I need help with figuring out what to do with Wind Loads. Building Location: Vaughan (Woodbridge). It has two roofs, a main one and then a mechanical penthouse that also houses the elevator shaft in one of its corners. We are thinking of making shear walls around the elevator shaft. Or steel braci ng. The building is surrounded by rough terrain on north and east. West side - highw ay and then rough terrain. South side - 2 small warehouses located about 500 m a way and that's it, the rest is open terrain. SO do I design for open terrain? I have to follow Figure I-15 for the case of my building, it's a high-rise. I am having a hard time figuring out coefficients. Do we calculate wind load at different heights? like at every floor? Do we take each face and calculate the windward pressure? Do we calculate wind pressure for the whole building, and then for main structural elements? What is the differen ce in calculation? The gust factor Cg is 2.0 for the whole building, +-2.5 for small cladding and s mall elements. The internal gust factor, Cgi, is 2.0. Where and how do I make us e of this internal factor? For the pressure coefficient, Cp, I can make an assumption and get the coefficie nt for the windward and leeward sides. How does the INTERNAL pressure coefficien t fit into this? My building falls into category 1. Cpi= -0.15 to 0. Why is it a range? Do I take each building face and calculate the windward, leeward and sideface pr essures? Then do I design for the maximum? What about the leeward face? when I t ake that face as a windward, what do I do in the very end? subtract leeward from windward to get overall effect on that face? How does internal pressure fit int o all this? The code gives specific gust factors and pressure coefficients for small element s or cladding. Isn't the whole building cover cladding? Glass and concrete/alumi num cladding? Why then am I given the "other" coefficients for whole building an d main structural members? How do they relate, interact? If the roof has a parapet, with cladding, the Cp is higher on roof and building corners. Do I calculate wind pressure on cladding and then see how this transfer s over to the concrete parapet underneath the cover? How do I do this? I have many more questions. I am really lost. What do i do with wind load? If I have a steel framed roof, I know I take into account wind uplift. What if I have concrete roof? Do I use only 1.25 dead load + 1.5 Snow load? How do I know if I should design for wind or seismic load? How do wind lateral loads transfer into the interior members? axially on beams all the way to the shear wall inside? Here is the excerpt on Wind loading from Ontario Building Code 2006: 4.1.7.1. Specified Wind Load (1) The specified external pressure or suction due to wind on part or all of a s urface of a building shall be calculated using the following formula: p = IwqCeCgCp where, p = the specified external pressure acting statically and in a direction normal to the surface, either as a pressure directed towards the surface or as a suctio n directed away from the surface, Iw = importance factor for wind load, as provided in Table 4.1.7.1. q = the reference velocity pressure as provided for in Sentence (4),

Ce = the exposure factor as provided for in Sentence (5), Cg = the gust effect factor, as provided for in Sentence (6), and Cp = the external pressure coefficient averaged over the area of the surface con sidered. Table 4.1.7.1. Importance Factor for Wind Load, LW Forming Part of Sentence 4.1.7.1.(1) and (3) Column 1 2 3 Importance Category Importance Factor, I W ULS SLS Low 0.8 0.75 Normal 1.0 0.75 High 1.15 0.75 Post-disaster 1.25 0.75 (2) The net wind load for the building as a whole shall be the algebraic differe nce of the loads on the windward and the leeward surfaces, and in some cases may be calculated as the sum of the products of the external pressures or suctions and the areas of the surfaces over which they are averaged as provided in Senten ce (1). (3) The net specified pressure due to wind on part or all of a surface of a buil ding shall be the algebraic difference of the external pressure or suction as pr ovided for in Sentence (1) and the specified internal pressure or suction due to wind calculated from, pi = IwqCeCgiCpi where, pi = specified internal pressure acting statically and in a direction normal to the surface, either as a pressure directed toward the surface or as a suction di rected away from the surface, Iw = importance factor for wind load, as provided in Table 4.1.7.1. q = the reference velocity pressure, as provided for in Sentence (4), Ce = the exposure factor, as provided for in Sentence (5), Cgi = internal gust effect factor, as provided for in Sentence (6), and Cpi = the internal pressure coefficient. (4) The reference velocity pressure, q, shall be the appropriate value determine d in conformance with Subsection 1.1.2. based on a probability of being exceeded in any one year of 1-in-50. (5) The exposure factor Ce, shall be, (a) (h/10)0.2 but not less than 0.9 for open terrain, where open terrain is leve l terrain with only scattered buildings, trees or other obstructions, open water or shorelines, h being the reference height above grade in metres for the surfa ce or part of the surface, (b) 0.7(h/12)0.3 but not less than 0.7 for rough terrain, where rough terrain is suburban, urban or wooded terrain extending upwind from the buildinguninterrupt ed for at least 1 km or 10 times the building height, whichever is greater, h be ing the reference height above grade in metres for the surface or part of the su rface,

(c) an intermediate value between the two exposures defined in Clauses (a) and ( b) in cases where the site is less than 1 km or 10 times the building height fro m a change in terrain conditions, whichever is greater, provided an appropriate interpolation method is used, or (d) if a dynamic approach to the action of wind gusts is used, an appropriate va lue depending on both height and shielding. (6) The gust effect factor, Cg, shall be one of the following values: (a) for the building as a whole and main structural members, Cg = 2.0, (b) for external pressures and suctions on small elements including cladding, Cg = 2.5, (c) for internal pressures, Cgi = 2.0 or a value determined by detailed calculat ion that takes into account the sizes of the openings in the buildingenvelope, t he internal volume and the flexibility of the building envelope, or (d) if a dynamic approach to wind action is used, Cg is a value that is appropri ate for the turbulence of the wind and the size and natural frequency of the str ucture. I have a physical copy of the User Commentaries of NBC 2010 so I cannot upload i t here. My question is if there is a guide on what to do. Can someone explain to me (1), (2) and (3) in relation to each other? The algebr aic difference to me means: Pwindward - Pleeward, but Pleeward is -ve, so we wou ld end up actually adding the absolute value of Pleeward to Pwindward? Pleeward is on the other side of the building, so how does that help me with the windload on the windward face? What if wind blows on the leeward face? Ughhhh. I know this is not formatted nicely. I don't know how to make you follow it logically because I don't even understand the steps to windload calculations . I ask my technical advisor and he doesn't help me. Tells me to figure it out m yself and make assumptions. But my level of understanding of windloads is so low that I would be making too many assumptions! Someone help me please? Thank you in advance Register to Reply Send to a friend Pathfinder Tags: Wind Loads Top of Form Bottom of Form Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added. Join CR4, The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion! CaptMoosie Guru

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Red Hook, New York (Mid-Hudson River Valley) Posts: 2758 Good Answers: 81 #1 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 11/14/2011 9:35 AM Hello albogino, First of all let me state that I'm not familiar with the Canadian NBC, it's intr icacies and practical usage. There are several Canadian Structural Engineers in this forum that may be able to serve you better than I. Please note that I use the NYS Building Code and ASCE-7 Standard for my structur al engineering projects. The ASCE 7 Standard may or may not be very close to the Canadian NBC....the terminology may be very similar, whereas the constants and

variable notations may not be... You're asking a lot of important questions, and that is fine. I always encourage d my past students during my teaching years.....there's nothing worse for a stud ent that is afraid t ask questions...."No question is a stupid question" is my m otto....and we all learn each and every day of our lives. But, due to the number, depth and important of the questions that you have posed I strongly suggest that you set up a meeting with your Structural Engineering P rofessor that handed you this project and ask him/her the questions and the exac t methodology you should be employing. This may take a few hours out of your and your prof's already busy schedules. Q: Didn't your professor already cover with your class the design and analysis m ethodologies that your design team was to incorporate during this project? IF YE S, I strongly suggest that you go back and re-study your class notes. For me and others here to go through and explain the entire design procedure wit h you via this forum would take several hours of dedicated time from any one of us here in the Forum......That just not practical because it's quite complicated and there are a lot of variables, much like the ASCE-7 Standard (if you are fam iliar with that). ===Signed, CaptMoosie, PE / BSCE / MSCE / PhD Civil, Structural & Environmental Engineer __________________ "Veni, Vidi, Vici"; hendiatris attributed to Gaius Julius Caesar, 47 B.C. Register to Reply albogino Participant Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4 #2 In reply to #1 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 11/14/2011 10:02 AM Thanks for taking the time to reply captain. No our technical advisor/prof did n ot explain anything. There no class notes or anything to guide us. For almost an ything we ask, we get "it's your company, do what you think is best. Make an ass umption" (we have a fake company right, our team). I asked him questions on wind load he intetrupted me and said he didn't want detail, just rough numbers. How can wind load be rough? He didn't let me ask other questions about it. As im, ne ver mind the coefficients. But what do I do with the negative pressures inside. How do the windloads get carried over inside the building. Do they cause extra m oment on the beams connected to the perimeter columns? Are they transferred as a xial loads through beams all the way inside to the shear wall? When I have a con crete slab roof do I even need to worry about winf uplift? These are only SOME o f the questions I had but he didn't want to hear it. It's supposed to be an inde pendent project, we do research and such. BUT if he is supposed to be there as a technical ADVISOR, ot BOSS. He doesn't know the difference. So I'm at a loss. I 'm learning by.myself and it's so hard when I also have to worry about my other classes. Yesterday I spent 6 hours going around in circles because I have no pro per guide for this stuff. And right now we're only working on a preliminary repo rt. We have only a vague idea of the HOW process for it. He doesn't make it clea r. He says he doesn't want detail (for wind loads or snow or seismic loads for e xample) but then says present me alternatives and give me a cost for them. For c ost I need volume, so dimensions, so don't I need moment + shear, and for that l oads? Ughhh. Hopefully a canadian engineer will pich in here.

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Join Date: May 2009 Location: Red Hook, New York (Mid-Hudson River Valley) Posts: 2758 Good Answers: 81 #3 In reply to #2 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 11/14/2011 11:01 AM Hello albogino, I'm sorry to hear that your Technical Adviser/Prof is so unresponsive to your te chnical queries. He/she should be ashamed of them self for such a piss-poor atti tude towards teaching undergraduates......A PROF IS THERE TO TEACH, PERIOD! Is this guy/gal a Grad Student or a tenured Professor? Credentials? Let me see if I can find a concise design methodology for you to follow, even if it's a US-based one.....it should be close to the CA NBC. A tutorial found onli ne would be the best. Have you done a Google search for this, even if it's based on the ASCE-7 Standard? Tell me more about the building...it's height, story heights, planimetric layout (square, rectangular, round, etc), floor beams & girder arrangement, column arr angement, central core(?), materials being utilized(?), and Cladding type and if continuous? Do the windows open, which would influence the interior pressures/v acuum? What type of secondary framing are you envisioning to utilize to take-up the wind forces (K-bracing, X-bracing, girder-to-column moment connections if st eel construction)? Some of your questions regarding how the wind forces are distributed from the sh ell to the columns and girders can be found if you study how to perform a "PORTA L ANALYSIS" if using structural steel w/ moment connections or concrete construc tion. Look it up. Also, the wind loads are applied to each column (both interior and exterior ones) at each floor level.....leeward (ie, suction forces) and win dward forces are additive. A very good textbook to learn how to do a Portal Wind Analysis (and other bracin g types) of multi-story buildings is (my copy and old standby BIBLE): "Structural Engineering Handbook", Gaylord & Gaylord, McGraw-Hill Book Company, 1 968, Chapter 19, Part 3. There are newer editions available, but it'll cost you. You can locate free e-bo ok files of this wonderful textbook on the web. Sorry, I don't have a e-book cop y of this text to send to you. You may also find it in your university library. __________________ "Veni, Vidi, Vici"; hendiatris attributed to Gaius Julius Caesar, 47 B.C. Register to Reply albogino Participant Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4 #5 In reply to #3 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 11/15/2011 3:02 PM

He is a tenured Structural Engineer. Works for Atomic Energy Canada, teaches at University of Toronto and teaches at my university, Ryerson, grad level. And he is responsible for the undergrad, 4th year projects. He is the technical advisor for 7 projects. I have gone to Google for this, and maybe I am not searching well but I did not get anything except for a website, jabacus.com that calculates wind loads (I ent er parameters). However it's only for LOW RISE buildings (H<20m). My building is 23m and 26.45m at the upper roof (mechanical penthouse). I have architectural drawings, but not sure how to upload it here. Storey heights: Underground parking height = 4.6m 1st story = 5.1m 2nd to 5th = 4.2m Mech. penthouse = 3.6m Planimetry --> L=35.9m, W=33m (roughly). It's almost square, but there is an add ition, I'm not sure how to write this. I will draw it here: _____ | | | -----\ | | | | |____/ |_____| That arch section extends from the mechanical penthouse all the way to the groun d. 2 way slabs, unless we add other thinner beams (joists? don't know what you call them) accross beams so that L/W>2 (this is how we are taught if it's one way or two way). There are no girders, that I can see, but we are thinking of adding 2 . There is a stairwell almost in the middle of the building, enclosed by a shear w all I guess, or a steel bracing system? (It's up to us). Then next to it there i s an elevator shaft enclosed (by something, again, we pick here right?) and adja cent (other side of the shear wall if you will) another staircase. These 3 are r ight in the middle of the building. So I am guessing these will be used for late ral support against Wind and Seismic loads? I am learning here. We are doing PRELIMINARY Design, so we have to give alternat ives. Columns are spaced almost equally in a recangular grid fashion (top view) Materials: 1. Outside glass, c/w vertical silicone butt glazing joints, c/w vert spandrels (r=12min), thermally broken curtain wall, c/w metal back pan... 2. 225 mm architectural insulated precast panels, exposed agg finish 3. reinforced poured concrete foundation, retaining walls 4. Pre-finished aluminum panels in some parts 5. for a few columns that are exposed from the building structure on the ground, aluminum covers, 6. On one face of mech pent. Deep ribbed 5000 series, prefinished metal wall ins ulated system. We don't know how to design shear walls and we are learning just now how to desi gn X bracing. I don't know what girder-to-column moment connection is??? So the wind loads are applied as Distributed loads in a triangular shape over th e columns? What about on the inside? The same force? I'm thinking it's going to be less, no? If so, how do I learn to transfer the wind loads? Portal Analysis I guess? I think this may be too much. How can this Prof expect us to do all this stuff, look for info, learn it and apply it? all within 3 weeks? pfttttt... I don't get the part that windward and leeward are additive. For the exterior co lumn on the windward face, I calculate positive windward pressure, then subtract internal pressure from it, acting on opposite direction. But then what do I do with leeward? It's sucking the building, so the force is acting in the same dire ction as the windward. So we add them basically? Is windward considered positive

and leeward negative? If so, when we subtract, we would end up adding since - t imes - = +. And how much of the leeward force do I subtract from resulting windw ard for this exterior column? On corners, the wind pressure coefficient is given as negative. So even in the w indward face, I design the column using a negative pressure? Do I design each building face as windward? What if wind is blowing from leeward ? I'm lost. What about beams, are they going to be affected by wind? (load acting axially?). Or do I simply design for top-down loads (live and dead?) If I have a concrete roof, do I consider wind suction? On the roof there is only wind uplift, right? And I know it's important for flanges of I-beams (top unsup ported part), but what about if I have roof slab, do I consider Snow load + Dead load + companion Wind load (-ve?)? How detailed is a preliminary design? They keep telling us to give them rough di mensions, estimated. He doesn't tell us how though. If I do steel beam/column, I need MOMENT. based on that I choose a type of beam/column from the steel handbo ok. So how is that rough? it means I don't have to check for stiffeners, type of connection etc? Do I design assuming simply supported beams? If I do frame, I would have to use SAP to figure out all the loads.. I have to work on this. Any input is appreciated. Register to Reply CaptMoosie Guru

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Red Hook, New York (Mid-Hudson River Valley) Posts: 2758 Good Answers: 81 #6 In reply to #5 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 11/15/2011 4:43 PM Hello albogino, Wowsers, that's a lot of questions! First thing first: Find a copy of that Gaylord and Gaylord handbook that I previ ously mentioned, as it explains how to do the analysis and how to apply the wind loads........A Portal Frame Analysis is actually a Hardy Cross analysis method, that's all. You should be able to find this handbook in your university library ....go look for it! If you're having no luck finding the text then I could scan a few applicable pag es of that book and send them to you.....and also a few pages from the AISC Stee l Manual that show you what the various types of Moment Connection are. I don't understand your diagram, so I wish I had a copy of your drawing. I'm usi ng CMS IntelliCAD PE here and can import only older AUTOCAD formats, but not R12 or 13, so that's not much help. Other than going to a local structural engineer for guidance, can you find a gra d student to hire briefly as a tutor? That may be the best way to learn how to d o this on short order... Are your project team mates helping out at all? From this end it sounds like you 're doing all of the work by yourself! See what you can do about finding help on your end. If I still had Skype I'd be willing to help you online, but unfortunately that software really screwed aroun d with my system bios and I ended up dumping it. Telephone is a option, but I no

rmally don't make it a habit doing such things with peeps on the web, plus I'm e xtremely busy tomorrow and won't be home, plus I have to attend a special meetin g for our Village Planning Board late tomorrow afternoon that will end late into the PM hours. I could try to explain to you here how things are done, but that'd take a few ho urs of typing away and you may still not know what I'm talking about. __________________ "Veni, Vidi, Vici"; hendiatris attributed to Gaius Julius Caesar, 47 B.C. Register to Reply albogino Participant Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4 #7 In reply to #6 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 11/15/2011 11:15 PM You're an awesome person. Thank you very much for offering to help as much as yo u have. I didn't expect this kind of response from anyone from the internet. I w ill look for the book. I also went to a phd student and asked him for help. He s aid he was really busy and gave me his lecture notes and 2 books on pdf format t hat talk about everything in Tall Buildings. I also was finally able.to get a ho ld.of my steel design professor and he explained a few things to me. I spoke to my structural.analysis professor and he explained a few things. I had an appoint ment with ny advisor today and I drilled him with questions and he FINALLY made it crystal clear what he was looking for with respect to wind load analysis. FIN ALLY. I had to go through all this stuff in order for me to be able to show him some work and then... So for now Captain, I.know what I have to do for wind load analysis. It doesn't have to be 100% accurate. What is required of me for this semester I can finally do it. What a headache it's been so far! I dread my next semester, when I will have to do detailed wind load analysis! I'm gonna have to hit te books next semester....only now I am finding out more about what a detail ed design entails! So for the time being I am good on wind loads. I'm sure I wil l have other questions and I will come back here and ask more. I do have team me mbers, but they need to be led! We had one group leader and because of him, and him not pressuring the advisor for "more", we are in this state right now. It go t to me so I kindt of took the reins and made the group realize the scope of our project. (I didnt know either). Thanks and I will keep you updated. Right now, by next wednesday he wants everything to be almost done. He wants us to focus mo re .on methodology, literature review, what's done in practise for design and bu ilding, cost analysis etc. So I now need to read up on information on all this s tuff. Let the fun begin.. I am typing this from my phone as my internet does bot work. I try to start a new line, and it shows here a new line but when i submit the reply, I see it all with no paragraphs. Sorry for the mistake, I know it's a heqdache to read. I will post back soon. Register to Reply CaptMoosie Guru

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Red Hook, New York (Mid-Hudson River Valley)

Posts: 2758 Good Answers: 81 #8 In reply to #7 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 11/16/2011 8:23 AM Albogino, I'm glad that you finally made some important headway with the PhD can didate, your Structural Analysis Prof, and finally your adviser! AWESOME, and gr eat leg-work! It's too bad that things got to the point where they ended up....a nd shame on your classmates for being absolute slouches (errr leeches?) and lett ing you do everything to get the ball rolling!!!!! Frankly, since you were in such a "pickle" I was becoming very concerned that th e University staff was dropping the ball (so to speak) that I was prepared to ca ll you in order to help you out more than I can ever hope to online.... Here's some preliminary help for you regarding the Portal Frame Analysis (if you choose to go that route): A. Calculate the wind force, and then the wind force at each roof and floor leve l. You will have to do this for each building axis...call them X-axis and Y-axis , or whatever tag you choose, say N-S Axis and E-W Axis, etc etc etc ...... B. Whether you have steel or concrete frame, you can go with either moment conne ctions at each end of the roof and floor girders where they frame into the exter ior and interior columns....OR you can incorporate X-Bracing or K-Bracing in eit her or both the exterior walls and/or the core. Since you only have a short buil ding (5 stories?), you can most likely use what the AISC refers to as Type 2 mom ent connects (usually a top and bottom clip angle at the end of the girder) or p lates T & B at the end of the girders that in most cases are welded to the face of the column. If you can obtain a copy of the AISC Steel Manual (either the ASD or LRDF manual) that will help you figure out what is what if you're not famili ar with these types of connections. Personally, for such a short building the Xbracing in the exterior walls may be the easiest and most economical, but you ma y have to ALSO incorporate interior x-bracing along an interior column gridline if one axis is too long. C. Preliminary size the columns due to gravity design loads (LL + DL) for all co lumns, without wind loading, then "bump-up" the size one or two notches to accou nt for wind forces to be added later on. You can refine the actual final column sizes later on with more refined numbers and data. Anyhow, you need to establish RELATIVE column stiffnesses for all columns along all gridlines in order to do the Portal Frame Analysis......the column stiffness are used to calculate the wi nd load distributions. Obviously exterior columns will be less stiff then interi or columns. Q: Have you done any work relating to INDETERMANENT STRUCTURAL ANALY SIS and the application of the HARDY-CROSS METHOD yet? I sure hope so if you are going to do a Portal Frame analysis! If not, you better off just using X-Bracin g secondary frames floor-to-floor and casing the wind loads down to the foundati ons. D. With any type multi-story frame building the wind loads applied at the exteri or floor-to-column node (at roof and each floor) will be distributed (or carried ) throughout the frame's plane to other columns (interior and leeward exterior c olumns) via the roof and floor girders. With the Portal Frame Analysis the wind forces are transformed into wind-induced moments at both the columns and the gir ders. I can't explain it more than that without a black board or having Gaylord & Gaylord's handbook under your nose so you can see how those moments and derive d. Each column segment (between floors) will have applied design gravity loads and wind-inducted moments T & B. Each girder segment between columns will have appli ed design gravity loads and "externally" applied wind moments applied at the end s of the girder (you will end up with positive and negative internal moments thr oughout the span).....you then analyze the girder 1). with gravity loads only, a nd then 2). with the gravity loads and wind moments....to find the worse case sh

ear, moment and deflection magnitudes. If you need the applicable section from that handbook I can email them to you af ter I scan them from my copy....OR you most likely will find a copy (1968 Copyri ght) of it in your University Library [Try to find an older copy of it as it's m uch better and more concise than the newer editions]. IF permitted by the Canadian NBC: In sizing both your columns and girders you ca n take Design Live load Reductions pursuant to building code provisions + allowa ble stress increases due to wind loadings. Good luck with that project! And give your teammates a swift kick in the arses a nd get them to stat helping you more than they have done so far! HTH!!!! __________________ "Veni, Vidi, Vici"; hendiatris attributed to Gaius Julius Caesar, 47 B.C. Register to Reply CaptMoosie Guru

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Red Hook, New York (Mid-Hudson River Valley) Posts: 2758 Good Answers: 81 #4 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 11/14/2011 11:13 AM Sorry, that should have been "Portal Frame Wind Analysis Procedure".... __________________ "Veni, Vidi, Vici"; hendiatris attributed to Gaius Julius Caesar, 47 B.C. Register to Reply CaptMoosie Guru

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Red Hook, New York (Mid-Hudson River Valley) Posts: 2758 Good Answers: 81 #9 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 11/16/2011 9:13 AM Albogino, I forgot to mention something+ ask a pertinent question: Have you done any Finite Element Method (FEM) analysis work yet in any of your s tructural engineering courses, and/or have access to any FEM software? If not, here's a very good (and free) downloadable FEM program that you could us e to perform the Portal Frame Analysis: www.engilab.com Download the EngiLab Beam.2D ML version 1.20 program (Linear Static Analysis of Plane Frames Program [2D Frames])+ tutorial + user's manual. I use this program a lot for my 2D frame analysis. It does have some limitations though in regard t

o the number of nodes and segments. The learning curve is short and sweet if you 're ever done FEM analysis before.....thoroughly read the manual, especially the parts in regard to inputting degrees of stiffness etc. Also, make sure you do t he tutorials! Have fun with this program.....it'll teach you a thing or two along the way! ===signed, CaptMoosie, PhD, PE __________________ "Veni, Vidi, Vici"; hendiatris attributed to Gaius Julius Caesar, 47 B.C. Register to Reply 129CBRider Power-User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 363 Good Answers: 8 #10 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 11/17/2011 4:41 AM In Florida we build everything to 130 mph if it is within 100 miles of a coastli ne or 140 mph if it is directly on the beach so it seems to me the starting poin t would be to find out how high a wind load they are requiring. In North Carolina high up in the mountains I have had to build to 90 mph because the building was in a valley that funneled the lower average wind speeds into h igher gusts. My experience is that you design to some pre-determined maximum wind load. Register to Reply CaptMoosie Guru

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Red Hook, New York (Mid-Hudson River Valley) Posts: 2758 Good Answers: 81 #11 In reply to #10 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 11/17/2011 9:28 AM The OP already has the Canadian National Building Code to determine Basic Wind S peed and pressures. One wind speed and pressure doesn't fit all elevations, as i t will increase with a corresponding increase in elevation (AGL). The wind speed up in Canada will be most certainly less that that found along th e NC, SC, GA and FL coasts. __________________ "Veni, Vidi, Vici"; hendiatris attributed to Gaius Julius Caesar, 47 B.C. Register to Reply kdelta Associate

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 34 #12 Re: Canada - Wind Load Calculations 12/11/2011 11:07 PM The building is surrounded by rough terrain on north and east. West side - highw ay and then rough terrain. South side - 2 small warehouses located about 500 m a way and that's it, the rest is open terrain. SO do I design for open terrain? Here is where you find a difference between the academic solution and typical pr actice. Technically you should design each of the four principal wind directions based on the upwind exposure condition for each direction. In practice you usua lly design all directions based on the most extreme exposure condition. Therefor e, if one side faces open terrain I would use open terrain for design in all dir ections. I am having a hard time figuring out coefficients. Do we calculate wind load at different heights? like at every floor? Do we take each face and calculate the windward pressure? Do we calculate wind pressure for the whole building, and then for main structural elements? What is the differen ce in calculation? There are two parts to wind load design. You have to design the lateral load res isting system of the building as a whole for strength and stability and you must also design the individual elements on the exterior of the building supporting the cladding to resist the wind pressures. The pressure on the leeward side is c onstant, calculated with Ce at mid-height. The windward pressure varies with hei ght based on value of Ce. The gust factor Cg is 2.0 for the whole building, +-2.5 for small cladding and s mall elements. The internal gust factor, Cgi, is 2.0. Where and how do I make us e of this internal factor? The internal wind pressures are only used for the design of the cladding and its supporting structural members. Internal pressures cancel out when you look at t he building as a whole. For the pressure coefficient, Cp, I can make an assumption and get the coefficie nt for the windward and leeward sides. How does the INTERNAL pressure coefficien t fit into this? My building falls into category 1. Cpi= -0.15 to 0. Why is it a range? Internal pressures can vary due to a number of factors. Again, they are only use d to design the cladding and its supports. You would use the highest positive nu mber in combination with the leeward external pressure and the highest negative number with the external windward pressure. Do I take each building face and calculate the windward, leeward and sideface pr essures? Then do I design for the maximum? You design for one principal wind direction at a time. Sideface pressures are on ly for cladding design. What about the leeward face? when I take that face as a windward, what do I do i

n the very end? subtract leeward from windward to get overall effect on that fac e? You are not calculating net pressures on a face when you are designing the build ing as a whole, just the net force acting on the building. You have to check you r building for four wind load cases, one positive and one negative in each princ ipal direction. How does internal pressure fit into all this? The code gives specific gust factors and pressure coefficients for small element s or cladding. Isn't the whole building cover cladding? Glass and concrete/alumi num cladding? Why then am I given the "other" coefficients for whole building an d main structural members? How do they relate, interact? Whole building and main structural members refers to design of the building's la teral load resisting system such as the bracing or shear walls. What if I have concrete roof? Do I use only 1.25 dead load + 1.5 Snow load? You should check for 0.9D+1.4W but you will quickly discover that it never gover ns in a concrete roof. How do I know if I should design for wind or seismic load? You have to design for both. How do wind lateral loads transfer into the interior members? axially on beams a ll the way to the shear wall inside? Yes, or through the floor and roof diaphragms. It depends on your layout and the magnitude of the loads. Try to use the diaphragms first. Can someone explain to me (1), (2) and (3) in relation to each other? (1) is the formula for calculating external pressures (2) tells you how to combine the external pressures to design the lateral load r esisting system of the building (3) tells you how to calculate net pressures on cladding and its supporting memb ers. The algebraic difference to me means: Pwindward - Pleeward, but Pleeward is -ve, so we would end up actually adding the absolute value of Pleeward to Pwindward? Yes. Wind pushes on the windward side and creates suction on the leeward side. T herefore these two forces are in the same direction and should add together. Pleeward is on the other side of the building, so how does that help me with the windload on the windward face? What if wind blows on the leeward face? Wind cannot blow on a leeward face. If it did then the wind would have changed d irection. Remember your are creating different load cases by looking at one wind direction at a time. You have to check your building for four wind load cases, one positive and one negative in each principal direction.