Howard Griswold Conference CallThursday, January 27, 2011 Partial Howard Griswold Conference calls: 218-844-3388 pin 966771#

(6 mutes & un-mutes), Thursdays at 8 p.m., Eastern Time. 6 Mutes and un-mutes

Conference Call is simulcast on:

www.TheREALPublicRadio.Net Starting in the first hour at 8 p.m.

Note: there is a hydrate water call Mondays, same time and number and pin #. Howards home number: 302-875-2653 (between 9:30, a.m, and 7:00, p.m.)
Mickeys debt collection call is 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time, Wednesday night. The number is 712 432 8773 and the pin number is 947975#.

Check out: www.escapeharrassment.com www.escape-tickets-IRS-court.org All correspondence to: Gemini Investment Research Group, POB 398, Delmar, Del. 19940 (do not address mail to Howard Griswold since Howard has not taken up residence in that mailbox and since hes on good terms with his wife he isnt likely to in the foreseeable future.) "All" Howard's and GEMINI RESEARCH's information through the years, has been gathered, combined and collated into 3 "Home-Study Courses" and "Information packages" listed at www.peoples-rights.com "Mail Order" DONATIONS and/or Toll-Free 1-877-544-4718 (24 Hours F.A.Q. line) Dave DiReamer can be reached at: notaxman@dmv.com Peoples-rights has a new book available from The Informer: Just Who Really Owns the United States, the International Monetary Fund, Federal Reserve, World Bank, Your House, Your Car, Everythingthe Myth and the Reality. Hell take $45 for the book to help with ads, but $40 would be ok which includes shipping ($35 barebones minimum) www.peoples-rights.com c/o 1624 Savannah Road, Lewes, Delaware 19958 ********************

Christian Walters (trusts) is on Mondays, Tuesdays and Saturdays at nine o'clock, Eastern Time. The number is 1-712-432-0075 and the pin is 149939# (9 pm EST). Wednesdays number is 1-724-444-7444 and the pin is 41875# (8 pm, Eastern) or tune in on Wednesday at Talkshoe.com at http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=41875&cmd=tc

Often you can find a transcript or a partial one for the weeks call at the following website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth Howard approves or disapproves all postings to this yahoo group. Send potential posting to Howard.

Note: questions to Howard are now submitted to Howard, preferably typed, to Gemini Research rather than fielded on the call live. It would be desirable to send a couple of bucks for mailing, copying and printing costs.
********************* Extra legal help is available from the firm, Ketchum, Dewey, Cheatham and Howe. When you arent talking please mute your phone!! Especially, dont walk away from your phone while its unmated. If you were near the phone in that situation youd hear the callers screaming at you to mute!!! It would be best if you mute your phone when you first come on, then un-mute it when you want to talk and then re-mute it. You can use the *6 button on your phone or use the phones mute button Speaker phones and cell phones are not desirable as they can chop up the call badly occasionally. If you are recording the call and leave the phone unintended, please mute!!!!!

Note, at various times some people left the phone un-muted and coupled television audio into the phone making the conference call conversations very difficult for all.
When you are not muted be careful of making noise such as breathing hard into the phones microphone or rubbing the mouthpiece or not reducing extraneous noise across the room. Cell phones can pick up wind noise when used outside and also if not in a primary reception zone can couple noise into the call. Excessive echoes and noise will terminate the conference call. Cell phones and speaker phones can cause echoes. Keep the call quiet, dont make Howard climb out of his mailbox and bop you one. ******************************************************************* Note: the telephone lines are usually quite noisy and therefore it would be prudent to slow your speech down otherwise your words and meaning will be lost. Suggestion: Get a phone with a privacy or mute button. This is much more convenient than star-6 and more rapid to use. It can also be used as a cough button since it can be used rapidly. Try it, youll like it. *********************************************************************

Mickeys new call-in number: 1-712-432-8787, pin: 170555# 8 p.m, EST ****************************************

A recording of each Howard Griswold Thursday conference call is available from Dezert Owl upon request for any sized donation. Go to the following link: www.TheRealPublicRadio.Net/Archives.html .
For donations to desert, send them to Free America Radio Network, 121 Seaparc Circle, Suite B, Kingsland, Georgia 31548. Phone number: 912-882-2142. Cell: 304-629-7169. For reference: Jersey City v. Hague, 115 Atlantic Reporter 2nd, page 8 (A 2nd ) ***************************************************** Start ***************************************************** { 00:59:42.095} [Howard] This friend and associate down in Florida was telling me the other night on this trust stuff, hes been try to help me find some of these forms that weve been looking for, especially a form on how to write a complaint for breach of trust. We havent found that form yet. Thats very well hidden. Im sure its somewhere in some books but its getting to be harder and harder to find things like that because theyre getting rid of a lot of the books that are in the library that have those things in them because they dont want us to know about this and you will not find it on the computer so dont waste your time looking. But anyway, what he did find was some information that people did put together about the public trust and it comes from Book 63C of Am Jur 2nd. Its the subject on public officials and employees and interestingly enough its Section 247. The same section number as Corpus Juris [Secundum] has on the duties of a trustee that weve been working on lately. Interesting how these two books run pretty close together. This section says in quotes: As expressed otherwise (and the otherwise is down below) the powers delegated to a public officer are held in trust for the people and are to be exercised in behalf of the government or all of the citizens who may need the intervention of an officer. Well, yeah once in a while we may needthats what governments supposed to be there for to help us and we may need their help in some cases and thats what theyre supposed to do is come out and help us, not come out and aggravate us, irritate us and strip us of our wealth like theyve been doing. {a failing government resorts to this in history}. Thats what it meant, they were supposed to be there to help us. Anyway, it goes on to say:

Furthermore the view has been expressed that all public officers within whatever branch and whatever level of governmentthat means anywhere from the little town government all the way up to the US government and every one in betweenand whatever be their private location are trustees of the people. I wonder how many government officials actually know that. I suspect maybe a very few at the top know it and they ignore it and they teach the rest of them to do what they want them to do to make a money-making racket out of government. Anyway, it goes on to say: And accordingly labor under every disability and prohibition imposed by law upon trustees relative to the making of personal financial gain from a discharge of their trust is covered otherwise in a court case called Georgia Department of Human Resources v. Sistrunk and that case can be found at 291 SE 2nd Rptr, p. 524. Now, then it goes on. Theres a lot morelisten to the rest of this because this really backs up what Ive told you in the past. It goes on to say: That is a public officer occupies a fiduciary relationship to the political entity on whose behalf he or she serves and owes a fiduciary duty to the public. It has been said that the fiduciary responsibility of a public officer cannot be anything less than those of a private individual. Furthermore, it has been stated that any enterprise undertaken by public officials which tends to weaken public confidence and undermine the sense of security for the individual rights is against the public policy. See state ex rel. v. Nagle v. Sullivan , 40 P Rptr 2nd, p. 995 and, lo and behold, the next statement is see Jersey City v. Hague at 115 Atlantic Rptr., P. 8. We have discussed that case at length in the past. Thats the case that makes the statement that I keep repeating. Jersey City v. Hague is the case from the Supreme Court of New Jersey that stated that all government officials at all times are in a trust position and as such they have a fiduciary duty to act with the highest level of good faith, honesty and integrity. And every time I repeat that I have to laugh because Ive never seen government act in good faith and honesty and integrity. And its not the governments wrong. Its the people we have in the government. And these cases go on to tell you that you have a right as a citizen to sue this individual for breach of his trust and hold and hold him personally liable for his conduct. You dont sue the state like so many people do in these civil rights cases thats a waste of time. The states not a person and they throw most civil rights case out because you sued the state and the states not a person under the 14th Amendment. If you sue the individual then the individual is a person under the 14th Amendment and you might get somewhere but in most cases they still throw the cases out of court because the individual is just doing his job and its the job hes been told to do but its not the job hes supposed to do under the trust instrument. Now, the law that weve been reading out of Corpus Juris [Secundum] related to trusts keeps referring back to the trustees duties come from the trust instrument. Now, you have to use your brain a little bit and realize that what established this government was the Constitution. The government is a public trust so it

was established by the Constitution. Then the Constitution is the trust instrument that they must abide by. And I think most people in this country, even the ones that dont get on these kinds of calls, even the ones that dont even care enough to get involved and do anything about They know the government is not living by the constitution. So its not the government thats the problem, its the people that are in government and they are personally liable for their breach of fiduciary duty and their breach of trust. And that can be found and you can gain a greater understanding by looking up Nagle v. Sullivan and Jersey City v. Hague. Now, I still dont have a copy of Nagle v. Sullivan. It is not on the internet, cant be looked up that way and a lot of the books are being taken out of libraries so its getting harder and harder to find cases like that but I do have Jersey City v. Hague and if you cant locate it just write to Gemini Investments and ask for a copy of it. And all I ask you to do is send a couple dollars to cover printing and mailing costs. Its only about a twelve or fourteen page document so its not a real big expensive thing to mail. So, something like $3 or so would probably cover itthats all I ask you forI dont sell this stuff. I just ask for my cost to be covered. I can send you Jersey City v. Hague if you need it. Thats very enlightening. I dont have Georgia Dept of Human Resources v. Sistrunk and I dont have Nagle v. Sullivan yet but Ill get them. Theres still ways to find and get those thingsIll get them soon. [caller] Give them Geminis address, Howard.

[Howard] Most people know it but Ill repeat it. Its Gemini Investments, PO Box 398, Delmar, Delaware 19940. And dont write to me. Like I said, I dont live there. This is very important for study for you people to understand that the government is in a trust position, that as such they are trustees. And as trustees they have certain duties to do certain things for you and I. You and I are the cestui que trust or beneficiary of this public trust. They are supposed to look out for our best interest, not devastate us by imposing fines and fees on us. The fines and fees and regulations of government that impose those kinds of things apply to government property and government personnel. They dont apply to you in your private capacity if youre not government workers and they dont apply to your private property such as your automobile, your land and home and theyre misapplying these things. This misappropriation of the law is a breach of trust, a breach of their fiduciary duty because it is not honestly being done in the manner in which government is set up. The prosecuting attorney that follows through with the prosecution is just as guilty. The judge who helps the prosecuting attorney to get a conviction against you or a judgment against you is just as guilty. Now, this other little piece of information is about a demand for verified evidence. Any kind of a case that government brings against you whether its a traffic case or a debt collection case of some kind on some financial institution like a bank or a credit card or some little moron comes around to your house and tells you if you dont paint your rainspouts the paints chipping off of that theyre to fine you and they take you to court because you didnt paint the rainspouts in the time they gave youit might be a good idea to paint the rainspouts to preserve the rainspouts but if you cant afford it or youre not capable of getting up there and doing it yourself and you dont have the money to pay somebody else to do it then theyre going to want to fight with you and try to impose these

internal government regulations on you. They dont apply to you. You should use in your defense the rules of discovery of the court. And in the rule of discovery you can ask questions. Theyre called interrogatories and in the interrogatories you can put this demand for a verified evidence of a trade or business activity with government that brings you under these rules and regulations. Now, a verified evidence means an evidence that is supported by an affidavit stating that this evidence is true and correct and notarized as such. Now, if the evidence is not true and correct and you sign something like that youve committed perjury. Perjury brings fines and jail time with it. It is a criminal charge to perjure yourself. Government personnel are told not to do that. That might be one of the only good things that they do. They do internally protect some of their government people by teaching them not to get involved in things like this and not to sign anything under the penalty of perjury. So they cannot produce what is known under Rule 901 of the Rules of Evidence as a verified evidence of anything whether it be a debt collection or a traffic ticket and whether or not you actually have a legitimate valid drivers license. Some people do. If youve got a CDL license, thats a legitimate verifiable drivers license. You asked to be involved in commerce. Thats what CDL is all about, its a commercial license for you to be in commerce and transport other peoples goods or to transport passengers and you have a duty of responsibility to protect the goods or the passengers and government makes sure you meet that responsibility. Thats part of their job. They have the right under the Constitution to regulate commerce. So you ask to be in that position so they can definitely produce a verified trade or business activity with the state government through your CDL license. But if you dont have a CDL license you shouldnt even have a license and they cant produce a verified evidence that that is a legitimate license. As a matter of fact we were told one time that a drivers license was contraband. Contraband means an illegal substance. Yeah, it is illegal. Government should never be issuing licenses to private people. Im not sure thats a good idea anymore. We got so many morons out there on the street we need to have some kind of control over them but I think the control should be in the hands of the people not in the hands of government. You take the moron to court that drives like a nut and sue him for the danger hes causing you, the hazard that he creates by the way he drives. Government shouldnt be making money off of some internal regulatory statue or code and imposing these claims against an individual because he drives like a nut or he drives drunk or something. . . . [Howard] The punishment should be up to the people and the best punishment is to take somebody to court and sue them for the things that they do wrong. And we should have decent lawyers that do that. The lawyers are on the governments side working with the government as agents of the government imposing all these fines and fees on people and extorting money from the people and theyre part of the thieves. Theyre actually on the wrong side. Theyre supposed to be there as trustees with a fiduciary duty to be honest and help us to take care of problems that we have. Thats what I just read to you. It said, the powers delegated to public officers are held in trust for the people and are to be exercised in behalf of the government or of all citizens who may need the intervention of the officer. Well, yeah, once in a while you should need to call on a lawyer to help you to do something about a problem, call on a police officer to help you about some kind of a

problem. The way these morons are programmed today and I mean programmed. Theyre not even educated, theyre just programmed like little functional idiots to make you the suspect, to turn on you if you call them. Thats why I tell people, dont ever call the police. . . . We think a lawyers going to help us. I dont know where you get the idea that a lawyer knows much of anything about the law. Theyve been taught procedure to collect debts. Thats all law school is about, learning how to create and collect debts. Thats all theyre there for and for the benefit of government, not for your benefit, to collect from you. Every lawyer is actually in breach of his duty as a trustee of government. And despite this patriot bull crap that lawyers arent licensed, indeed, lawyers are licensed. You cannot appear before the court without being licensed by the court to appear. Theyre not licensed as a business activity in the business license area of permits and licenses. Theyre licensed by the court. As a matter of fact, if you study the law, the law says that the court has the authority to license lawyers to appear before that particular court. And if you go ask a lawyer that lives in the next state over, if hes come over to your state and take care of a case for you, hell tell you he cant do that, hes not licensed in that state. And in those courts of that state hes only licensed in the state where he lives and works. Indeed, they are licensed and theyre licensed by the court and the court is part of government and that makes lawyers an agent of the government giving them a trustee duty. What did I just read to you? Furthermore, the view has been expressed that all public officers within whatever branch and whatever level of government and whatever their private locations are trustees of the people. That comes right out of those cases that I just told you about, Nagle v. Sullivan and Jersey City v. Hague. Now, none of this stuff was taught to us in schools. We have no comprehension of it. We trust the lawyer will handle things properly and our trust is definitely misplacedtheyre not to be trusted. If we want something done, we, all of us, not just Howard Griswold but all of us, have to learn how to do this because individually you have to do it when you have an individual problem. I cant go in there and do it for you. They wont let me. Im not licensed to appear before that court as a lawyer so they wont let me. I cant speak for you. You have to do the speaking so you have to learn and understand this concept of law and how it works, what the trustee is, what the duties of a trustee are and I like the idea that Mr. Clarence came up with of removing them as the executor trustee. Now, he left the trustee part off. He didnt go far enough and this is what I was trying to get information to him and tell him he only needs to add a little bit to what he was doing and he would have it right. You have to remove them as a trustee because theyre all in a trust position. They are executing the estate that theyre holding for us, all the property weve registered. Hes right about that. But thats because theyre in a trust position and if you want it stopped you have to remove them as the executor or administrator trustee. Some of them are just administrators and some of them are executors. Just remove them all as trustees. And as I just read to you and Ill do it again, all public officers in whatever branch at whatever level of government are trustees of the people. So, all of them are in this trust position and if you only remove one then they can replace him. The law of trusts allows that the trustee be replaced if one has been removed. So they can slip another one right in his place and continue against you. So you would have to remove all the officers and employees of the state of blank, whatever state you live near, and the

United States and all their political subdivisions as trustees. That will work. That will stop them cold. The department of government that is in control of corporations and trusts is the Secretary of States office. And the removal has to be sent to the Secretary of States office in order to put it on record and make it recognizable then a copy given to whatever moron from government that is bothering you, a lawyer, a judge, a cop, permits office, or health department official or anybody. Now, you dont want to do this when they act properly and some government people have the intelligence and decency about them to be helpful. So dont think you can go after all of them because theyre not all guilty. Some of them actually are helpful. Youve got to recognize when what theyre doing is for your good and when what theyre doing is not for your good. And many times its not a matter of your opinion. Youve got to do a little bit of studying and reading and understanding the law a little bit so that you formulate your opinion in accordance with what the law sets forth as the program thats to be followed, not just your opinion. Just because you got a religious view and you dont think that what theyre doing meets your religious view, that has nothing to do with the law. Just because you think the common law said somethingyou may be rightbut nine chances out of ten youre probably not understanding what the common law was in the first place but just because you think it doesnt meet what your common law rights are you cant substantiate it in law, you have to substantiate it by showing that as a trustee what they did was dishonest by misapplying the law in some way or another. So you got to even be able to show that the law they used did not fit under what the trust instrument said that they had to do and, boy, Ill tell you what, once you start realizing this youre going to find out that its very easy to do that theres only a couple of statements in the Constitution that are truly relevant to the activities of what theyre doing. That is the authority of Congress to tax on income tax, the authority of government to maintain their own property. But the restriction on government to not in any way interfere with the use and enjoyment of your property because that would constitute a taking of private property without just compensation in violation of the 5th Amendment and that statement in most of the state constitutions. It wouldnt be too hard to show that the trust instrument which is the Constitution shows that what theyre supposed to do is not what theyre doing and because its not what theyre doing theyre dishonest and because theyre dishonest they have breached their fiduciaryand that has caused me an injury in the amount of X number of dollars. Now, dont be ridiculous. Some of these stupid people want to go after millions of dollars. They dont even have millions of dollars. Go after them for a good sum, $10,000, $100,000 depending upon what the injury is but whatever the injury is the amount you ask for has to be somewhere near the value of the injury. It cant be exorbitant. Now, as we develop this and I get this stuff posted, some of the information on duties of a trustee out of Corpus Juris and reposting all this stuff here that I just went over tonight from Am Jur, Book 63C on the fact that government is a trustee and some of these cases that back it up Im going to try posting all of this kind of stuff so its there for you to find on our post. Now, this is going to take me time. This is not going to fall in line real quick and easy and I know some of you need this now. You got problems and cases going on. Just write to me. Ill give you as much as we have now. Ill mail it to you. Just write to Gemini and ask for it until I get it posted. Once I get it posted youll be able to get it off the internet and it will help you to put it together. As I find these forms on how its done what were going to do is were going to put a blank form on the internet for you to download and print out and use for yourself to fill in the blanks. But well also put a form

on there that we will fill out and show how its to be filled out. But, now, that is not going to relate necessarily to your subject matter. Thats why I tell you, youre going to have to read some of this other information and study it and learn how the breach that theyre doing relates to your subject matter. And we cannot do and I will not do your case for you. Im not a lawyer, Im not in the business of doing that. I dont have the personnel to help me do that and it can take hours sometimes to write some of these things up. I dont have the time so Im not going to do it. I will put the information out so that you are capable of putting it together yourself. [caller] [Howard] Mr. Griswold, could I ask you a question? Yeah.

[caller] Ill make this short. Do you think its trickery whentells someone that they have to create a will and make somebody the executor of their estate and then someone comes along who is the executor of their estate, theyre responsible for the estate where in actuality the State is actually the executor of the estate, isnt that true? [Howard] Thats true. Yes, it is. Its alright for you to create wills or trusts or something like that to control some of your property. The reason why you do that, really, is to put it at arms length. Ive known people that got into troubles of some kind, problems with the government, and the government tried to get a list of their property so that they could take it for the fines or consider it to be compensation for the wrong that they claim they did under one of these code violations that they impose upon you. And they asked the people, whats a list of the property you own? And the person said, well, I dont have anything. I dont own a thing. And they said, well, you live somewhere dont you? Yeah. Well, who owns that? Well its in a trust. Oh, hell. Ive seen judges get really frustrated. Oh, hell, we cant touch that. It does help you to have a trust or a will with an executor set up because they cant interfere with that completely. But if any of the property thats in that trust is also registered with the government in some way or another then they can control it from behind the scenes to some extent. So, if you want total control over your property and over what happens to it upon your demise through a will then you have to terminate these registrations. And what have I been talking about for fifteen years? Ive been telling people you got to terminate these registrations with government. You got to stop dealing and doing business with government. Ive always said that I have nothing against government. I think its a fine little institution. I just think its a damned bad investment. Dont invest anything with government. Dont give them your property to hold. Thats an investment. Dont do it. [caller] Ok, so can you terminate your own executrix position?

[Howard] Oh, yeah. Anybody can quit jobs that they dont If youre appointed by somebodys will as an executor you can say, no, I dont want this. I want Joe Schmoe appointed as the executor. He can do a better job than I can do. You can do that but sometimes thats not a good idea because sometimes Joe Schmoe is greedy as hell and he doesnt know anything about the law of trusts and he doesnt know that he has a fiduciary

duty to be honest and you better watch these, especially lawyers. If they get appointed as the executor of an estatefor instance, that often happens in what they call the death by testamentary, in testamentary death. In testamentary death means a death of a person that died without a will so the state picks it up and they appoint a lawyer as the executor of this persons estate. And, boy, Im telling you when theyre done through probate court the inheritor, the beneficiary, of that will ends up with about 10% of what the owner left behind and those lawyers manage to create all kinds of expenses and they pocket lots of money out of it and they get most of the estate in their pocket. Theyre not honest. And brother-in-law might be the same way so be careful of brother-in-law. I got a call just a couple of months ago, a young girl who had a brother and a sister and herself. They were the three children. Dad had past away and left a will and left a lot of stuff behind. The one sister was confiscating and grabbing everything she could get her dirty little hands on. And this sister that called me was really upset. All this stuff was to go to my brother and me and she took it. What can we do about this? So, I told her what to do. Go in and complain to the court because this was going through the court. It was an estate to be probated through the probate court and to go in and complain to the court that the executor is breaching their duty as executor and taking property that is to be divided equally among the children or sold and the funds divided equally and this sister who was the one appointed as the executor was not doing her job. Shes in breach of the fiduciary duty as an executor to be honest in the distribution of the proceeds of the estate. And this happens all the time especially in families. Everybody doesnt do it but unfortunately it happens all the time. [caller] Ok, thank you. Ill get those two cases for you, the Nagle case and the other one tomorrow. [Howard] Ok. Alright, dear, thank you. Youre near enough to a library that still has some books in it. Thank youyeah. . . . [caller] This is. I have one question that you spoke on tonight and you said if someone hit you take them to court and you sue them. But what if a John Doe hit you and you dont know who that individual is and they kept going. [Howard] Well, thats when you need a private detective to go investigate the whole thing and find out what the names are. [caller] Well, we tried that and they never could be found. There was a car stolen and everything [Howard] Some people are smart enough to leave the area after they do something wrong. You may never find them. Theres a couple of dozen different shows on television about unsolved crimes. People got away with it. Well, thats because they left the area and they didnt leave any evidence behind that could track them down. But look at the little girl, the cute little Ramsay girl in Colorado. That case is 14 years old and they still dont really have a true suspect. They tried to accuse the parents. See, thats typical of these

moron cops. If youre near by you must have been the one that did it. And that case, interestingly enough, I found out that they have a DNA sample of the intruder but they havent found anybody that they can attach that DNA sample to. So whoever was the intruder that actually did that to that poor little girl was smart enough to get the hell out of the area and not leave anything behind that made a trace. And they still dont have anybody that they can say is actually the one that did it. Every once in a while we have those kinds of situationssomebody gets away with something. I believe in not letting them get away with something right there at the scene. . . . [Dave] First, Id like to present a summary. If you admit to having an address, address is domestic and if youre enjoying an address you owe a tax in return for that privilege that youre enjoying. So anybody who admits they have an address owes a tax in return because it is a government granted benefit to have an address. They can only tax three things, excises, imposts and duties and if youre not. Excise means privileges, is a tax on privileges. Thats what theyre charging all these like income tax, thats an excise on a privilege. dont have a address, you have a post location which is non-domestic. [Howard] Thats where theyre breaching the trust because theyre imposing these socalled privileges on people that are not within their power to impose such as social security and the address and many other things like that. [Dave] Well, theyre imposing their presumption that youre charging money and therefore you need a license to drive because youre charging money, they presume, and thats the fraud, right therepresuming. Theyre presuming youre charging money and theyre presuming your car is being used to charge money with. Theyre presuming that your car is a vehicle thereby. [Howard] And theyre presuming that the postal address that you use is a business location with a trade or business activity within government and that is really fraud, isnt it? [Dave] The very definition of address is domestic which means within the corporation. Non-domestic would be a post location and not an address. [Howard] Well, I even got a little more technical in the past about that than that explanation and that is that my address is Howard Griswold and if you address me any other way you wont get an answer. Im not going to respond to some 4-digit number and name of a street. Thats not my address. [Dave] So earlier you brought up about the drivers license. If people would just tell them theyre not charging money therefore theyre not driving, therefore they dont need to have a CDL or any other kind of drivers license because theyre not driving, theyre not charging money. Because youre not using your car to charge money with your private property automobile is not a vehicle because the legal definition of a vehicle is something

that is being used in the production of income and you just said youre not charging money using your car so its not a vehicle and its not a vehicle subject to be licensed to motor passengers for hire or to motor other peoples goods for hire so its not subject to the license requirements but you have to tell them that theyre presuming wrong. Theyre presuming you are charging money and you are in commerce and until you object and protest and deny their presumption and demand they prove that youre a liar theyre going to proceed with their presumptionthats been the problem. [Howard] Thats where the demand for a verified evidence of such a trade or business comes into play. [Dave] But the summary for land taxes, anybody who would like to remove their land from the rolls of property thats presumed regulateable and, taxable go to www.peoples-rights.com and print out the order page, the mail order page and request the 48-page data package about the security agreement indemnity bond financing statement and fill in those questionnaire blanks and send them in to Howard for him to create that security agreement indemnity bond financing statement document based on the answers you provide in the questionnaire blanks and he will send you the document and when you record that at the state Secretary of States office you then have a perfected priority claim of interest and once thats recorded Howard can create for you an affidavit of commercial notice based on that recorded document which terminates the states interest and terminates the recordation of your private property deed into their records and thats why theyre charging you a tax because youre enjoying the benefit of them holding your deed document in their records. So by serving that affidavit of commercial notice you terminate the registration and they can no longer send you a tax bill or continue to regulate land or you. [Howard] And what Dave just said comes right out of their law books. It is 100% right but they havent been paying any attention to it. They ignore it. And I was trying to figure out what we could do to force them [not] to ignore it. And when David Clarence came up with this removal of the executor I said, thats what were missing. We got to remove their authority over that property that we gave them by the registration and then they have to give it back to us. [Dave] You could point out its the office of executor. Its not the executor, its the office, that you occupy the office of executor. [Howard] Im not sure that thats a good idea, Dave. That wasDavid Clarence said that you remove them and then advise them that you are now from the office of the executor. You got to realize something about that. That puts you in this trustee position of having to do everything that the trustee is supposed to do and if you dont know what the trustee is supposed to do because youre not familiar with the law you can get yourself in a lot of trouble being in that position. What I think we should do is just take the property back, then it does not need an executor. Terminate the registrations and take the property out of their hands that we gave them to hold because as trustees theyre breaching their duty in holding that property and misapplying and misusing it.

[Dave]

By use of the affidavit of commercial noticeright?

[Howard] Right. And that was part of the program but we seem to be missing part yet and what David came up with is fantastic. That was the part were missing. Remove them as the executor but also call them a trustee and remove every one of them so that they cant replace that executor with another one and just take your property back. Then you dont need an executor over the property. When the property is in your hands and your hands only and nobody else is holding a document that describes that property then you have allodial title. The word, allodial, is a Latin term meaning standing alone. If it stands alone in your hands youre the only one that has control over it. If you put it in somebody elses hands with a copy then youve given them an interest and they can control it. [Dave] Which is what the lawyers have been doing.

[Howard] Um huh. This idea thats been promoted for years around the country about filing a land patent as opposed to the deed, you still file it in the governments office. The law of commerce still puts it in the same position. They become the holder-in-due-course, theyre holding it in trust for you and as trustees they have all kinds of rights to use that property and do things with it but always for your benefit. But thats not the way theyre doing things. Theyre not doing it for our benefit. Theyre doing it for their own benefit. That is a breach of the trust.