1st Community Meeting on FNLM & Land Code

May 9th, 2015 @ MChigeeng Community Complex

Prepared by Ryan Migwans, Land Code Coordinator

The 1st community information meeting on the First Nation Land Management & Land
Code initiative for MChigeeng First Nation was held on Saturday May 9 th, 2015. The
council liaison for the Land Code Steering committee was in attendance along with
youth representative Pierre Debassige. Also Land Code Coordinator (LCC) Ryan
Migwans, Land Code Steering Committee member Donna Debassige, & Lands
Assistant Sally Hare.
Meeting commenced at 11:15 am with a traditional opening by committee member
Donna Debassige prior to the introductions provided by council liaison.
Philp Goulais, Director for the Lands Advisory Board gave a presentation on the
background of the Framework Agreement & components of the Land Code, in addition
to the benefits associated with adopting a Land Code. The presentation also included a
list of previous First Nations who have signed on to the framework agreement and
communities who are now in the operational phase of the Land Code. The KPMG study
was also discussed, with a background on Nipissings historical experience on
economic development and the challenges encountered prior to operating under a land
code. A brief description of the Individual Agreement was requested to elaborate its
significance with this process.
The Individual Agreement is negotiated between the FN and Canada to deal with such
matters as: the reserve lands to be managed by the FN (Land Description Report), the
specifics of the transfer or administration of land from Canada to the FN, the operational
funding to be provided by Canada to the FN, the results of the Environmental Site
Assessment phase 1, and revenue money to be transferred to the FN that was
previously held by Canada
The presentation by the Lands Advisory Board was finished at 12pm, with community
questions as follows:
1. Does the province of Ontario have any involvement with this process, as it does
with provincial roads & right of ways? How will this affect current fishing rights
(ie. Netting)? Watersheds? Concerns that the provincial regulations are more
stringent than federal regulations.

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Response. NO, the province does not have involvement in the process. Once
the First Nations land code is enacted, the First Nation will now be in the drivers
seat when it comes to any negotiations respecting reserve lands. Any current
interests continue in accordance with their terms and conditions until their expiry,
however nothing precludes the FN from asking the party to renegotiate a new
interest under the land code if they are willing.
The Framework Agreement is not intended to define or prejudice inherent rights,
or any other rights, of FNs to control their lands or resources or to preclude other
negotiations in respect of those rights. It is not a treaty and does not affect any
treaty rights.
LCC informed community member that the province does not participate with the
land code development phase, but could be involved in the operational phase to
assist with developing the environmental laws including env. assessments which
are required to be harmonized with provincial or federal regulations with one
year after land code ratified. LCC will follow up with roads & ROW inquiry, in
addition to current fishing rights, & impact to watersheds.
2. Is the federal government responsible for any clean up activities associated with
any potential contamination identified in the ESA phase 1 process.
Response: band member was informed that AANDC follows a polluter pays
policy, they will remediate any contaminated sites for which they were
responsible for.
Framework Agreement Section 50 Liabilities: 50.1 The FN will not be liable
for acts or omissions of Canada or any person or entity authorized by Canada to
act in relation to FN land that occurred before the FNs land code takes effect.
The Phase I Environmental Site Assessment is the first step in determining what
contaminants may be on FN land. If contaminants are identified that require
remediation (cleaning up), a Phase II will take place to sample and test to
determine if they are causing or likely to cause adverse effects. A Phase III
determines the nature and extent of adverse environmental impact, determines
the potential risk to human health and the environment, and if needed, develops
a Remedial Action Plan.
3. MChigeeng should implement a petroleum based recycling program to accept
used vehicle oils/glycol for disposal or recycle, could MFN start this program
asap, instead of waiting for environmental laws under the land code?
Response. LCC informed member inquiry will be forwarded to appropriate staff
for potential options/solutions.
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Once the Land Code is ratified, the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act
(CEAA) will serve as an interim environmental protection and assessment law
for First Nation lands until the FN develops your own law. We can apply the
regulations of CEAA 1992 (more strict) or 2012 (less strict).
4. Is there going to be soil sampling at traditional burial grounds?
Answer. LCC informed band member this could potentially be addressed with
consultants prior to the ESA phase 1 field work, follow up reqd. Band member
was also informed the request for proposals have previously been sent with the
terms of reference indicating soil sampling will only be conducted if obvious
signs of contamination exists, such as soil staining or any visual signs of spills.
5. Can the control of hazardous waste products improve on existing procedures?
(Ie. Mercury light bulbs, batteries, etc. are not being disposed of properly.)
Response. LCC informed member the transfer station does not accept
hazardous waste products, this inquiry will be forwarded to appropriate MFN
staff for discussion. LCC reiterated the importance of having environmental laws
which will address the communities desire to have greater environmental
protection for MFN reserve lands.
The FN will be able to develop laws on the regulation of hazardous waste once
the Land Code is ratified. To enforce the land laws, the FN will have the power to
establish offences that are punishable on summary conviction, provide for fines,
imprisonment, restitutions, community service, and alternate means for
achieving compliance. Please see section 19 of the Framework Agreement for
additional information regarding enforcement.
6. Does the FNLM Resource Centre have civil engineers on staff to assist business
owners who require engineered drawings prior to installing new underground
storage tanks? Environment Canada requires stamped engineering drawings, for
storage tank installations.
Response. Phil Goulais informed band member the FNLM Resource Centre
does have technical staff to assist first nations during the development phase (ie.
Planners, Surveyors, Environment etc). LCC will inquire to the options available
to business owners who may require remediation or upgrading assistance.
7. What happens to Mchigeeng first nation lands if they havent been officially
designated as Additions to Reserve (ATR)?

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Response. The communal lands purchased by the first nation which are outside
of the reserve boundaries and have not been added to reserve, will remain
taxable in the municipality in which it is located.
The Framework Agreement does not affect any lands, or any rights in lands, that
are not reserve lands. Section # of our Land Code will automatically allow
additional lands to be added to your (reserve) land base but will still have to go
through the ATR process. This Agreement is not intended to define or prejudice
inherent rights, or any other rights, of First Nations to control their lands or
resources or to preclude other negotiations in respect of those rights. It is
identified in the Land Code how lands can be added to the land code if the FN
wishes, once they become reserve lands.
Community Questionaire & Feedback on Land Code Process

Band Member (Feedback)

8. There should be a cap on how much land is sold for in MChigeeng, such as
$5000 per acre.
Response: Important to remember that FN land cannot be sold. A person who is
not a Member is not entitled to be allocated Land or to hold a permanent Interest
in Name First Nation Land. Section 26 of the Land Code will allow the Lands
Committee to develop land laws, rules and policies for revenues from lands and
resources, such as the fees and rent for interests and licences in First Nation
lands, fees for services provided by MChigeeng and fees and royalties to be
paid for taking natural resources.
9. Protect the most vulnerable community members by providing equal access to
programming, band members on social assistance should have same access to
reserve lands in need of housing.
Response:The Land Code applies to the lands only, any housing needs have to
be addressed by (the housing Committee and housing policy, if there is one?).
The Land Code has clear rules about the fair and equal application of land laws
to all MChigeeng Members in Part 5 Accountability.
10. Band member suggested MFN to get a new survey of CP & reserve lands after
the land code gets ratified, and should still be completed if voted against.

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Stakes have been removed and discrepancies could arise regarding lot lines.
Surveys should be distributed electronically and hard copy to respective owners.
Response: If the lots were surveyed, there would need to be a survey plan
somewhere. As soon as a monument is placed in the ground, the surveyor is to
make record of it in the Canada Lands Surveys Records. Provided that there is a
recorded survey plan and the monuments were placed on the plan, a surveyor
could go back and re-establish the lost monument. A new survey plan wouldnt
be necessary, rather just a form to be filed with NRCan. One of the priorities of
the Lands Committee once the Land Code is ratified, is to work on a Land Use
Plan which could also address lot and stake issues.
11. Land laws should have 80% of band members approval prior to enactment.
Response: 80% is extremely highwhat is the typical percentage of member
participation in other referendum votes?
12. When mailing to off reserve band members, 2 months should be allowed for
members to respond to mail in ballots, by the time band members mail their
correspondence to MChigeeng, it is too late for ballots to be accounted for.
Response: The CRP currently has the number of days for the mail-in ballots to
be sent out is 56 days before the official voting day. You can change this to 60 (2
months) if you wish.
13. Who will get land in common law relationships (ie. 2 years) in mixed race
relationships.
-

LCC informed member of the MRP draft adopted in principle sets out the
terms & conditions for marital property, and the process for MRP laws to be
included in the land code.
Council shall enact an MRP law within a year of the LC being enacted.
The LC stipulates that the rules and procedures developed shall respect the
following general principles: Each Spouse should have an equal right to
possession of their matrimonial home, should be entitled to an undivided half
interest in their matrimonial home, as a tenant in common, the rules shall not
discriminate on sex, and only members are entitled to hold a permanent
interest in FN land or a charge against a permanent interest in FN land.

14. Is there a current land use plan and if so will the land be resurveyed after Land
Use Plan enacted?

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LCC informed member MFN currently does not have a Land Use Plan in place,
but can be created under a Land Code. Community decides directives of land
management under land code (ie. subsequent surveying).
One of the priorities of the Lands Committee is to develop a Land Use Plan once
the Land Code is ratified (Part 7 of Land Code).
15. CP land holder currently leasing under AANDC with expiry soon. Owner wants
to be involved with land code process and potential leasing arrangements under
land code to inform new leasees of lease agreements. Member would like land
taxation to be implemented to generate revenue for the MChigeeng, but would
like provisions in place to protect the CP holder from unreasonable rates
imposed to CP business owners. Neil D.
LCC informed member the land code does not authorize laws relating to taxation
& remains separate from the land management sections of Indian Act. A land
code will not address the taxation of real or personal property or of immovables
or movables. Section 83 of the Indian Act will continue to apply. (FA clause 18.3).
Every Member of MFN has the right to be involved in the Land Code
development and is encouraged to participate. Any interests that were issued
under the Indian Act continue to exist after the Land Code. If the interest is
expiring/ expired once the Land Code is ratified, the lessor (FN or CP Holder)
may negotiate a new lease without the involvement of AANDC.
Band Member (Questionnaire)
16. Do you think a land code will be beneficial to MChigeeng First Nation?
Ans.Not Sure
17. What are your concerns and/or fears with having a land code?
Ans. Council may stop issuance of Certificate of Possession so that land will be
communal.
Response: Certificates of possession or Member Interests previously issued
under the Indian Act shall continue to exist after the coming into force of this
Land Code. The way the LC is currently worded, CPs are allowed to be issued
post LC (Subject to the provisions of this Land Code, Council in consultation with
the Lands Committee shall establish Land Laws, policies and procedures for the
allocation of Land to Members. Council may, in accordance with this Land Code
allocate Land to Members; or issue a certificate of possession or certificate of
entitlement to a Member for Land allocated to that Member.)
-

MFN wont enforce its own laws.

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Reponse: Persons may be appointed by the First

Nation or the Governor in Council to act as justices of the peace for the
purposes of enforcement. If no justice of the peace is appointed, then First
Nation laws will be enforced through the provincial courts.
-

We are not near any cities or major economic activity for this to be
economically successful.
Response: There are many other benefits of having a land code other than
just being economically successful. Land Management activities under the
Framework Agreement are Faster, Strengthening First Nation values and
visions, Protecting First Nation legal interests, Providing more flexibility, better
lease terms for the FN, and better accountability of 3rd parties to the FN,
Providing better relationships with Financial institutions and the ability to
borrow for capital investments, Facilitating more consistency with the FN land
use plan, Increasing the level of interest and participation of members, as well
as awareness of Community issues, And increasing both internal and external
investments.

How will we be able to afford to pay for environmental protection &

monitoring?
Reponse: Once the Land Code is ratified, MChigeeng will begin receiving
funding to operate under the Land Code annually. The FN will no longer have
to report to Canada, and will report directly to the Members every year on
land management activities, and how the operational funds were spent. The
funding can be spent on whatever land management activities the community
decides are priority and can include environmental protection and monitoring.
Additionally, the FN will receive $75,000 in transitional and environmental
funding for the first 2 years of being operational. This funding can contribute
to the development and passage of a core body of land laws (including
environmental protection), training and development (including environment),
communication, etc

How come Canada wont pay for soil tests?

18. General Comments.

- Can corporations own land?
Response: Only MFN Members can have a permanent interest in FN land. A
corporation could lease FN land, but can never own it.
-

How many First Nations responded to the KPMG Study?

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Phase I: 2009 - 2011 Costing Study and Benefits Review (19 Operational
First Nations participated)
Phase II: 2013 - 2014 Benefits Review Update (32 Operational First Nations
participated)
Phase III: 2014 - 2015 and 2015 2016 (currently ongoing) a series of indepth case studies. This will be done in three parts (Part (i) is underway). The
focus topics are:
o Economic Development
o Cultural / Heritage
o Environmental
Was the KPMG study based on First Nations near cities & economically
viable regions? Or was it based on remote First Nations not near any
economic areas? Ie. Manitoulin.
Response: The studies were conducted from voluntary FNs who were
operational (already had land codes in place). FN who participated in both
2009 and 2013 are: (BC): Lheidli Tenneh, McLeod Lake, Beecher Bay,
Sliammon, Tskwawlaxw, TSou-ke, Tsawout, Tseil-Waututh, Squiala,
Tzeachten (SK): Muskoday, Whitecap Dakota, Kinistin (MB): Opaskwayak
Cree Nation (ON) Chippewas of Georgina Island, Mississaugas of Scugog
Island. Also participating in 2009 were Westbank, Tsawwassen, and
Nipissing. Prior to 2013, Westbank had moved beyond the Framework
Agreement & signed a self government arrangement; Tsawwassen had
signed a Treaty and Nipissing did not participate in the 2013 study.
In 2013, The additional FNs were: (BC): Kitselas, Shxwha:y Village,
Leq'a:mel, Seabird, We Wai Kai, Skawahlook, Songhees, Sumas, Campbell
River (SK): Muskeg Lake, Kahkewistahaw (MB): Chemawawin, Swan Lake,
(ON): Mississauga, Whitefish Lake, Henvey Inlet
More INFO on the KPMG studies: http://labrc.com/wpcontent/uploads/2014/09/2014-FNLM-AGM-KPMG-Presentation_FINAL-Sep12.pdf
What were their land bases?
Will this be economically beneficial to MChigeeng & how?
What will enforcement look like?
Response: That is up to the community once the Land Code is in place.
Enforcement will be written into Land Laws and will be enforceable by a FN
Justice of the Peace, or enforced in provincial court. Depending on what the
Members want to see, it could also take the form of a conservation officer
patrolling FN lands.

Will MChigeeng force Certificate of Possession holders to tax their cottager

lessors?

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Response: Taxation is not part of the Land Code development and cannot be
enforced under the Land Code. Taxation is a separate process under the
Indian Act.
-

Can we build a casino with a Land Code?

Response: You can build a casino with or without a Land Code. How the land
is granted for the casino will be controlled by the FN rather than AANDC, with
a Land Code.

Will MFN charge CP holders for removal of resources on their own CP land
(ie.gravel, timber).
Response: It will be up to the Members to decide what resources should be
protected and how through Land Laws, rules and policies.

What is the total of MFNs communal land base?

What is the total of MFNs Certificate of Possession land base?

Can MFN seize CP land? Or expropriate it?

Response: The land code does set out a process for the FN to expropriate. All
governments have the authority to expropriate land. This isnt something that
can be done until a land law is enacted respecting everyones rights and how
it can be done. This is an ugly word but cannot abused. Its in the Land Code
(17.3 Community Purposes) for the best interest of the community as a
whole. Council can only use expropriation as a last resort and must make
every effort to negotiate an agreement with the person owning the land.

Expropriation power will be held by the FN and not by the province or

Canada.

With the Land Code, can MFN Band Members use their land for mortgage
with the bank?
Response: Yes, there are a couple different options. A to A leases: Allows a
member with an interest to lease that interest to themselves, then the
leasehold interest can be mortgaged without requiring the FN to guarantee
the mortgage (just like off reserve. If the member defaults, the bank could
take the leasehold interest (land lease and house), but cant take permanent
possession of the land. The bank could then lease the house for the
remainder of the term to make their money back.

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Land can be mortgaged to the band but not to a bank. Banks will not be able
to take over band land through a mortgage default. In other words the Council
must guarantee any mortgage with the lender or make some other agreement
with the banks.

Another option would be for Council to guarantee the Members individual

mortgage.

Will we be building homes & subdivisions and allow non native people to live
here? Does the Land Code allow this to happen?
Response: The land code allows the FN to create and address residency and
access rights.

Will MFN start charging fees to Band Members for land transactions?
If someone owns land off reserve, can I transfer it to MFN and have it added
to reserve status? Then could MFN transfer it back to the original owner?

Response: It wouldnt be as cut and dry as simple transactions. The land

would have to follow the Additions to Reserve (ATR) process.
What is the difference between Certificate of Possession (CP) and Certificate
of Entitlement?
Response: CP is issued under the Indian Act, CE is issued under the land
code. Same effect just different names to help differentiate.

What is MFNs environmental plan?

Response: Once the Land Code is ratified, MFN will receive transitional and
environmental funding for the first two years, $150,000 total, to develop
environmental protection and assessment processes. This can be used for
developing an environmental plan if thats what the Members want.

Will the insurance for MFN go up for land?

Response: Council shall arrange, maintain and pay insurance coverage for its
officers and employees engaged in carrying out any matter related to First
Nation Land to indemnify them against personal liability arising from the
performance of those duties. The operational land management funding will
cover this expense.

What happens with the highways, hydrolines, telephone lines etc. that run
through MFN? Do we now own them?

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Response: The FN now has the power to negotiate those interests and
licences instead of Canada negotiating them on the FNs behalf. The First
Nation will now be in the drivers seat. However, any current interests
continue in accordance with their terms and conditions until their expiry.
Nothing precludes the FN from asking the party to renegotiate a new interest
under the land code if they are willing.
-

If non band members live here do they have a right to vote & access
services the same as band members?
Response: only Members have the right to vote on FN matters. Non-members
may have access to services, but the community may develop land laws,
rules and policies on the fees that may be charged.

Will the dumps get an environmental assessment? Will there be a soils

assessment for dumps?
Response: Once the Land Code is ratified, the Canadian Environmental
Assessment Act (1992 or 2012) will serve as an interim environmental
assessment and protection process. Further Land Laws can be enforced on
environmental protections and assessment.

Band Member (Questionnaire)

19. Do you think that a land code will be beneficial to MChigeeng?
Yes
20. What are your concerns and/or fears with having a land code?
Will our land be taxed?
Response: Taxation is a separate process under the Indian Act, and cannot be
enforced under the Land Code.
21. General Comments.
I think the land Code is a good idea for MChigeeng.

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