Madiha Afzal, nonresident fellow in the Global Economy and Development program at Brookings, discusses her new book, “Pakistan Under Siege: Extremism, Society, and the State,” with the director of the Brookings Institution Press, Bill Finan. Afzal explains Pakistanis’ own views on terrorist groups, jihad, and America, the relationship between Islam and the Pakistani state, and how the country could redefine its sense of nationalism without what she calls "the crutch of religion." Also in this episode, Bill Frey discusses the demographics of millennial generation, now the largest generation in the United States, and what implications millennials’ diversity could have on the country. Subscribe to Brookings podcasts here or on Apple Podcasts, send feedback email to BCP@Brookings.edu, and follow us and tweet us at @policypodcasts on Twitter. The Brookings Cafeteria is a part of the Brookings Podcast Network.